Ex-Macedonian PM: Đinđić wanted exchange of territory

Georgievski concluded that the “Macedonians are the biggest counterfeiters of the Balkan history”...
--
Nah, the Albanians would definitely get first place. FYROMians, probably a close second considering they have practically nothing to do with Alexander the Great.

You folks do realize that Georgievski is under 40 different kinds of medication daily!

He has been completely removed from Macedonian society, I am unsure why is he giving interviews, or who actually interviews him.

The fact he "Ok'd" attack on Serbia pretty much says it all.

He is also an adoptee from Bulgaria and has substantial animosity towards Macedonia in general, yet continues to live in Skopje!

Commenting on the current state-political strategy, Georgievski concluded that the “Macedonians are the biggest counterfeiters of the Balkan history”

B92

He's not the only one expressing those views.Former president Kiro Gligorov also said the present inhabitants of Fyrom had no connection with the ancient Greeks.
We do not claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great.' said FYROM'S Ambassador in Washington, Mrs. Ljubica Acevshka
'We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian.' said FYROM´s Ambassador to Canada Gyordan Veselinov.
"our fathers and grandfathers and great-grandfathers have always been called Bulgarians" said Krste Misirkov,in 1903.

The whole Macedonianism was a masquerade to cleanse and annex Macedonia for Bulgaria as VMRO founders Tatarchev and Hadjinikoloff testify to this.By renaming the area Macedonia and its people Macedonians they could start their irredentist claims for the historical Macedonia which is within Greece.

Leonidas, don't switch the problem from the sich head to the healthy one. The Bulgarian Macedonian-Adrianopolian Secret Revolutionary Committees, sa IMRO started its activities in 1893 was a Bulgarian organization, as UCK was Albanian. It never masqueraded as anything else. The Bulgarians at that time constituted a clear majority in geographical Macedonia except North Olympus and Halkidiki. The first Macedonist doctrine was launched in 1903, after the Ilinden uprising by someone Misirkov, who saddly but correctly assessed that no matter what the Bulgarians in Macedonia do, they could not achieve an authonomous Macedonia with a Bulgarian schools and churches, not to mention a united Bulgaria (the territories where they formed a majority). If they accepted to be Macedonians (neither Serbs, nor Bulgarians),he argued may be there was a chance. This doctrine was later espoused by the communists and it worked for few decades. This doctrine was vehemently anti-Bulgarian and aimed the integration of the Macedonians within the Yugoslav Serbian subculture. With few exceptions like Georgievski, the vast majority utterly refused to accept history as it was. If we are Macedonians, they argued, we obviously are descendents of Alexander the Great. So now we withness the officializing of the Star of Virgina as national flag, only to make the preple forget the lion...

"'We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great.
Leonidas"

Except Philip II and Alexander the Great were not Greek.
Philip invaded the greek city states. Demosthenes had nasty words for Philip.

Do you care to dig them up Leonidas?

"Nah, the Albanians would definitely get first place. FYROMians, probably a close second considering they have practically nothing to do with Alexander the Great. (Zoran, 29 June 2012 15:45)"

-- The Serbs instead keep it real. Followed by a close second by the Russians. Keep it real bro. Word. Know what im sayin :for the cross, for god and mother Serbia. Fo shizzle yo.

Leonidas, Macedonia has been populated by Slavs for the better part of 2 millenia, who knows, maybe u are Slavic origin as well?

Russian San Stefano treaty united most Bulgarians into one state, the 3 regions of Moesia, Macedonia & Thrace. West ruined the treaty and most of Bulgarian inhabited lands came outside of state borders and a portion (Macedonia) was given back to the Turks by the Western treaty of Berlin. The rallying cry Macedonia points to the region where they Turks ruled and mistreated the population. VMRO wanted all peoples living in Ottoman occupied Macedonia to unite in common cause. It's not our faults you Greeks were hostile, before Bulgaria was even liberated you had started conflicts because the Turks let you Greeks run Orthodoxdom in Balkans and you refused to recognize status of Bulgarian Orthodox church and to this day you don't recognize the existence of Slavic minority in todays Greek Macedonia, people who have lived there ca 1500 years are called "slavophone greeks" ie "ethnic" greeks who just "happen" to speak Slavic.

You folks do realize that Georgievski is under 40 different kinds of medication daily!

He has been completely removed from Macedonian society, I am unsure why is he giving interviews, or who actually interviews him.

The fact he "Ok'd" attack on Serbia pretty much says it all.

He is also an adoptee from Bulgaria and has substantial animosity towards Macedonia in general, yet continues to live in Skopje!
(Dejan, 29 June 2012 16:08)

Yes lets ridicule people who have a different opinion than our own, this is the problem with the uneducated people of Macedonia, this closed minded attitude represents the mindset of a 10 year old kid. Instead of engaging in constuctive conversation lets tease everyone..

If your not sure about the identity of todays macedonians, simply go the the Bitola Museum and see teh Bitola inscriptions, or go to Skopje museam and see the original documents of the Miladinov brothers and see there the Bulgarian reference has been cut off by the communist..

100 years ago %80 percent of Macedonians were illiterate

It's like being insane, to the person thats insane, insanity is normal.. where on earth does it say Tsar Samuel was Macedonian? the Bulgarian Byzantine wars are well documented, yet Macedonians also claim Samuel as there own.. Its those silly communinist that Turned the macedonians against the Bulgarians, Greeks and albanians, they taught the locals through education to hate thy neighbour..

Its a dam shame..

"Georgievski, who was the first leader of the now ruling VMRO-DPMNE and who also has a Bulgarian citizenship"

If he is a Macedonian/Fyromian person, why does he have a Bulgarian citizenship???? I belive that he is a Bulgarian from Fyrom, not a real Macedonian that we all know are from northern Greece.

Everybody is laughing around the world with FYROM folks that believes to be Aleksander descendants in fact, but, from when Aleksander the Macedon became a greek?!
You people are funny!

The man is a fool and responisible for destabilizing Macedonia. Miraculously, he has done more damage to our history than any other modern politician (bar crvenkovski the cocaine addict) and Frckovski the mafia.

Nobody can deny, every single neighbor of Macedonia wants a piece of it. This has always been the case. I wish Turkey was pro West, so the rest of the world can open up its archives of Macedonian history. Think about it 500 yrs of occupation, it would have real facts about Solun, Mala prespa and Eastern Macedonia. Greece feels threaghtened the most. Why the insecurity?

To all you web fighters sitting behind a keypad, carry on. Your comments amusing, at the least!

I know what my great grandfathers fought for and don't need to market myself.

Bulgar from Ohrid

Firstly I am not your mate and "I am guvaro" don't know what it means.I assume that people that exercise propaganda are always lying and you're not an exception.Insecurity is more applicable to Bulgars with nearly 1.5million Turks amongst them and Fyrom with 700000 Albanians.

I did say in may posting that my grandparents were born in Makedonia.

I haven't said there were no Slavs living in Greece in the past.

My source is from the Ottoman archives and not from wikipedia.Ckeck it out.

It bothers me that you spread lies and propaganda.When you look at the Ottoman sources they tell the real story which of course people like yourself don't want to see because it doesn't agree with their mindset.I have never said that there were no Greeks from Asia Minor or Pontiaks which didn't settle in Makedonia.They are all Greeks and they have a right to settle anywhere in Greece.

The Grandparents of your friends arrived probably from Mars.My advice to you is to Check out the Ottoman archives.

BTW By 1904 there were more than 1000 Greek schools in Makedonia.

(UltraBulgarNationalist, 29 June 2012 22:37)

If you really want to learn about ancient Macedonia,its history,people and its culture then you'll have to look beyond Bulgaria,into various internet libraries around the world to learn real history of this great land and not the fabricated one orchestrated by the VMRO fascists.No amount of propaganda from Bulgaria and Fyrom will change the fact that Macedonia's history is and always will be Greek.

If you also want to learn about the history of the early Greek orthodox church you'll have to start with Saint Paul's letters to the Greek Church in Thessaloniki addressed to its people "Thessalonians".These letters were part of the New Testament Bible which was written in Greek,written by St Paul in Greek -a historical fact recognised by all churches.When Greeks were building their monasteries in Mount Athos in the 8th century and Meteora in the 12th Century the Turks were still in Mongolia.

With regard to your point about minorities if you consider the number of votes received by the political party representing the Slavophones in Greece in the last four National & European elections-less than 3000-then your argument about minorities doesn't hold water.This is the propaganda spewed up by Skopje with Gruevski suggesting recently that there are more than a million Slavophones in Greece.One fact though Gruevski won't meention is what happened to 350000 Greeks in Monastiri as recorded by the Ottoman census of 1911.

The Bulgarians at that time constituted a clear majority in geographical Macedonia except North Olympus and Halkidiki.
(nik, 29 June 2012 23:04)

That's simply not true.If you look at the last Ottoman census of 1911 both Selanik and Monastir provinces had larger Greek populations than Bulgarian ones.Mark Mazower in two of his books " Salonica" and "The Balkans" arrives at the same conclusion.It's just the usual BulgaroFyromian propaganda that the Greeks somehow disappeared from the face of earth.

http://www2.units.it/storia/corsi/Dogo/tabelle/popolaz-ottomana1911.jpg

"Nah, the Albanians would definitely get first place. FYROMians, probably a close second considering they have practically nothing to do with Alexander the Great. (Zoran, 29 June 2012 15:45)"

-- The Serbs instead keep it real. Followed by a close second by the Russians. Keep it real bro. Word. Know what im sayin :for the cross, for god and mother Serbia. Fo shizzle yo.
(johny, 29 June 2012 23:25)
==============================
Johny,
If you not capable of a good rebuttal you should not reply at all. What the Hell was that?

The Bulgar spy opens his mouth once again.

This bulgar spy was exposed for planning to divide the country between the bulgars and the albanians in 2001, the whole 2001 scenario was created by this clinical schizophrenic for that sole reason.

Also he gave the green light for the US to attack Serbia from Macedonian territory so so the Serbs would sit back and allow Macedonia to partitioned for the final time.

Macedonians where rioting when Serbia was being bombed because they knew they were next on the list and they were proven right in 2001 when the NATO backed NLA/UCK waged a controlled war (headed by US generals) who were exposed in the battle of Arachinovo were KFOR troops have to be brought in from Kosovo to save the NLA and US generals from utter annihilation.

Fact is after all of the foreign powers meddling in Macedonia (one assassinated President, one attempted assassination), Bulgar and greek spies as Prime Ministers the Macedonian nation still survives and will always survive.

To Leonidis..

Thanks for the link though the greek figures are grossly over exagerated..

Kosovo Vilayet had 200 Greeks and not 90 000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_Vilayet#Demographicshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_Vilayet#Demographics

Not even 10% of the monastir vilayet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilayet_of_Manast%C4%B1r

There were more Jews in solonica under Ottoman empire and only 6000 more greeks than bulgarians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thessaloniki#Historical_ethnic_statistics

Now before u discredit my sources.. please note that not one of my Greek friends from Northern Greece could trace there great grandparents from Northern Greece..

My mate even tells me that they sometimes refer to his fathers village in northern Greece with the old slavic name... BTW his Great grandmother was from Izmir and mother from crete..

In my opion, Northern Greece besides Solanica had a majority Bulgarian population, even in the treaty of san stefano Bulgaria never claimed solonica

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_Of_San_Stefano

I've personally been to places like edessa and florina have spoken to slavs from this region, tribute to the slavic roots of this region, i on the other hand have never ever met any greek family from FYROM, and kosovo.. additionally as per above i have never met Northern greek who can claim that there great grand parents were born in Northern greece

As for Alexander the Great.. he's all yours..

(Bulgar of Ohrid, 30 June 2012 13:52)

Your sources are as credible as Fyromian claims they are descendants of ancient Makedonians.Anyone using Wikipedia as a source hasn't got a leg to stand on in his arguments.On the other hand my sources are not Greek as you allege but those of the Ottoman empire which has been credited by many scholars for having an efficient administration of its occupied territories,without one their empire wouldn't last four hundred years,and the census of its populations was carried out by them and which has been verified by the Ottoman archives.

I understand this census is anathema for Fyromians because it demolishes all their arguments about being autochthonous to geographical Makedonia with their own identity and language.Can you let me see where is it mentioned by the Turks that the people of Makedonia spoke a language named makedonian?

The rest of your posting doesn't merit a response because is total nonsense.Makedonia for you is Northen Greece and Thessaliniki is Salonica and that tell me where you're coming from.
You remind me another Fyromian posting on this site saying his knowledge of history was derived from his grandparents and everytime he went to Greece everybody spoke Bulgarian.As to your Greek friends I doubt you have any.

BTW I do claim that not only myself but also my parents and grandparents were born in Makedonia.As a matter of fact my grandfather was killed in Makedonia in the Balkan wars.

Bulgar of Ohrid we Croatians utterly crushed the Bulgar Turks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian%E2%80%93Bulgarian_battle_of_927 your ancestors. The only mistake we made let to many Serbs in to the Croatian Kingdom when you were persecuting them ethnic cleansing Serbs. Also when the Ottoman Turks were using Serbs as canon fodder we had pity on them again let them in to Croatian territory in large numbers what a big mistake. Only became ungrateful destroying criminal thieves for mother hive Belgrade the true history no fantasy history.

Tom

Dude 100 years ago %99 of our Grandfathers had names ending with a V.. Tito and co turned the uneducated village people into so called Macedonians, you can not trace your DNA roots to Alexander the Great nor can any greek.. But Characteristacally, our Language, our Culture, our religion is Bulgarian..

Just go to the Bitola Museam and see the inscriptions for yourself.. the kale "dedicated to the Bulgarian people of Bitola"

Of course our Grandfathers fought against the Germans in World War II, but Tito forced a seperate identity with violence and schooling

1) To stop Bulgarian claims on Vardar Macedonia
2) To stop rebellion in Vardar Macedonia, appeasement
2) To claim greece or parts of Greece hence the Greek civil war..

Why was nationalism condoned in Vardar Macedonia and not in other parts of Yugoslavia??

In School they taught that we were related to Ancient macedonia

What a farce...

Just look at all the people born in vardar Macedonia who became Bugarian Generals, politicians.. do the math

To top it off what about the science dna experiment done in skopje recently.. it concluded that Serbs and the Croats had the most simular DNA and that Albanians the most different

and the most non surprising element was that macedonians and Bulgarians had the closest DNA..

Come on, im sick of this dillusional attitude where we just block our ears and yell no no no

@ Metrod...if you would like to understand where Alexander the great came from ...in the Old Testament God, gave a vision to the Profit Daniel of Alexander's coming ,and even spoke of the 2 kings(the Medes and Persians) being vanquished by the one King who was the King of the Greeks (not king of the Macadonians and the Greeks) ...for all of you deniers read Daniel 8:3 -27 ...God didn't say ,2 kingdoms will be vanquished by 2 Kingdoms ....He said 2 will be vanquished by 1....maybe we should start attending Sunday Service again...and stop wanting that which is not meant for us...

Leonidies

1)Mate im guvaro to my best mate... whats the point of writing posts if we are going to assume everyone is lying and not engage in contructive conservation? thats very sad Leonidis, you sound like somone who has to constantly re-assure himself, very insecure.

2)I'm not doubting your grandfather past away in Macedonia.. though u dont mention where your great grandparents where born? hence my comment about the once slavic make up of norhtern greece

2)Go to the village of Achlada in Florina, there you will see the grave of FYROMs prime ministers grandfather, he fought and died for greece hence show more respect to the slavs

4) your not listening, your source is as just as if not worse than wikipedia

5)Why does it bother u if northern Greece was a majority slav region 100 years ago? today its not obviously, its made up of decendants of Greeks from Asia Minor/Ottoman empire and assimulated slaves.. hence the region has been ethically cleansed... dont blame your losses againts the turks e.g izmir on us.

BTW i've grown up with greeks, i'll say it again, not one greek can trace there great grand parents being born in northern greece, you urself can't even trace your links past ur grandparents ican vuddy, hence northern greece was populated by greeks after the balkan wars hence now a majority. What did they teach you in shcool Leonidis? your not much different to FYROM

Johny, If you not capable of a good rebuttal you should not reply at all. What the Hell was that? (Peggy, 1 July 2012 04:18)

Yes teacher I wont do it again. Can i have permission to go to the bathroom? Before that though, hold on till i get a pen and write down what you said so i know for next time.

Leonidis

You have proven me right, you think your better than FYROM, but you have the same mindset.. hurl insults and close your ears when it comes to others opionions..

All im saying is geographical Macedonia had more Slavs than greeks 100 years ago, yet you make personal insults about my immigrant greek friends..

Life must be so sad when one is so close minded..

Your source is just as reliable as wikipedia or any other greek instition system..

I never said i hate Greece or wished ill will, i love greece and my mates.. you on the other hand have nothing but hate for slavs, blabbering on as if Turks in Bulgaria and Albanians in Macedonia are a cancer.. who cares if there are 10 million turks or Albanians in Bulgaria.. its not the end of the world my friend.. life goes on..

Please look at your own backyard first.. havent you been watching the news lateley? your nation acts like a disgrace, living on hand outs and wanting more and more at the expense of hard working germans..

BTW ancient greeks where fair and modern greeks look like arabs.. i bet you have no DNA relation to the ancient greeks hence stopped your whining, you may be even half slav half turkic, you cant prove scientfically otherwise

Ur so quick to point the figures

Did Ljubco Georgievski mention in his book that he wanted to have exchange of territories between Macedonia and Albania at the time when he was prime minister? He didn't directly say it, but there was a great uproar when the Macedonian Academy of Sciences and Arts proposed the idea, which was actually his idea, to make a clear border between the Macedonians and Albanians. He wanted to give up Tetovo-Gostivar region in exchange for Mala Prespa region in Albania. I would agree if it would be possible to have a conferedation between Macedonia and Albania, otherwise, it doesn't make any sense, because in both Tetovo-Gostivar and Mala Prespa regions the population is mixed!

Georgievski concluded that the “Macedonians are the biggest counterfeiters of the Balkan history”...
--
Nah, the Albanians would definitely get first place. FYROMians, probably a close second considering they have practically nothing to do with Alexander the Great.

You folks do realize that Georgievski is under 40 different kinds of medication daily!

He has been completely removed from Macedonian society, I am unsure why is he giving interviews, or who actually interviews him.

The fact he "Ok'd" attack on Serbia pretty much says it all.

He is also an adoptee from Bulgaria and has substantial animosity towards Macedonia in general, yet continues to live in Skopje!

"Nah, the Albanians would definitely get first place. FYROMians, probably a close second considering they have practically nothing to do with Alexander the Great. (Zoran, 29 June 2012 15:45)"

-- The Serbs instead keep it real. Followed by a close second by the Russians. Keep it real bro. Word. Know what im sayin :for the cross, for god and mother Serbia. Fo shizzle yo.

"'We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great.
Leonidas"

Except Philip II and Alexander the Great were not Greek.
Philip invaded the greek city states. Demosthenes had nasty words for Philip.

Do you care to dig them up Leonidas?

Leonidas, Macedonia has been populated by Slavs for the better part of 2 millenia, who knows, maybe u are Slavic origin as well?

Russian San Stefano treaty united most Bulgarians into one state, the 3 regions of Moesia, Macedonia & Thrace. West ruined the treaty and most of Bulgarian inhabited lands came outside of state borders and a portion (Macedonia) was given back to the Turks by the Western treaty of Berlin. The rallying cry Macedonia points to the region where they Turks ruled and mistreated the population. VMRO wanted all peoples living in Ottoman occupied Macedonia to unite in common cause. It's not our faults you Greeks were hostile, before Bulgaria was even liberated you had started conflicts because the Turks let you Greeks run Orthodoxdom in Balkans and you refused to recognize status of Bulgarian Orthodox church and to this day you don't recognize the existence of Slavic minority in todays Greek Macedonia, people who have lived there ca 1500 years are called "slavophone greeks" ie "ethnic" greeks who just "happen" to speak Slavic.

The Bulgar spy opens his mouth once again.

This bulgar spy was exposed for planning to divide the country between the bulgars and the albanians in 2001, the whole 2001 scenario was created by this clinical schizophrenic for that sole reason.

Also he gave the green light for the US to attack Serbia from Macedonian territory so so the Serbs would sit back and allow Macedonia to partitioned for the final time.

Macedonians where rioting when Serbia was being bombed because they knew they were next on the list and they were proven right in 2001 when the NATO backed NLA/UCK waged a controlled war (headed by US generals) who were exposed in the battle of Arachinovo were KFOR troops have to be brought in from Kosovo to save the NLA and US generals from utter annihilation.

Fact is after all of the foreign powers meddling in Macedonia (one assassinated President, one attempted assassination), Bulgar and greek spies as Prime Ministers the Macedonian nation still survives and will always survive.

The Bulgarians at that time constituted a clear majority in geographical Macedonia except North Olympus and Halkidiki.
(nik, 29 June 2012 23:04)

That's simply not true.If you look at the last Ottoman census of 1911 both Selanik and Monastir provinces had larger Greek populations than Bulgarian ones.Mark Mazower in two of his books " Salonica" and "The Balkans" arrives at the same conclusion.It's just the usual BulgaroFyromian propaganda that the Greeks somehow disappeared from the face of earth.

http://www2.units.it/storia/corsi/Dogo/tabelle/popolaz-ottomana1911.jpg

Commenting on the current state-political strategy, Georgievski concluded that the “Macedonians are the biggest counterfeiters of the Balkan history”

B92

He's not the only one expressing those views.Former president Kiro Gligorov also said the present inhabitants of Fyrom had no connection with the ancient Greeks.
We do not claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great.' said FYROM'S Ambassador in Washington, Mrs. Ljubica Acevshka
'We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian.' said FYROM´s Ambassador to Canada Gyordan Veselinov.
"our fathers and grandfathers and great-grandfathers have always been called Bulgarians" said Krste Misirkov,in 1903.

The whole Macedonianism was a masquerade to cleanse and annex Macedonia for Bulgaria as VMRO founders Tatarchev and Hadjinikoloff testify to this.By renaming the area Macedonia and its people Macedonians they could start their irredentist claims for the historical Macedonia which is within Greece.

Leonidas, don't switch the problem from the sich head to the healthy one. The Bulgarian Macedonian-Adrianopolian Secret Revolutionary Committees, sa IMRO started its activities in 1893 was a Bulgarian organization, as UCK was Albanian. It never masqueraded as anything else. The Bulgarians at that time constituted a clear majority in geographical Macedonia except North Olympus and Halkidiki. The first Macedonist doctrine was launched in 1903, after the Ilinden uprising by someone Misirkov, who saddly but correctly assessed that no matter what the Bulgarians in Macedonia do, they could not achieve an authonomous Macedonia with a Bulgarian schools and churches, not to mention a united Bulgaria (the territories where they formed a majority). If they accepted to be Macedonians (neither Serbs, nor Bulgarians),he argued may be there was a chance. This doctrine was later espoused by the communists and it worked for few decades. This doctrine was vehemently anti-Bulgarian and aimed the integration of the Macedonians within the Yugoslav Serbian subculture. With few exceptions like Georgievski, the vast majority utterly refused to accept history as it was. If we are Macedonians, they argued, we obviously are descendents of Alexander the Great. So now we withness the officializing of the Star of Virgina as national flag, only to make the preple forget the lion...

Everybody is laughing around the world with FYROM folks that believes to be Aleksander descendants in fact, but, from when Aleksander the Macedon became a greek?!
You people are funny!

Bulgar of Ohrid we Croatians utterly crushed the Bulgar Turks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian%E2%80%93Bulgarian_battle_of_927 your ancestors. The only mistake we made let to many Serbs in to the Croatian Kingdom when you were persecuting them ethnic cleansing Serbs. Also when the Ottoman Turks were using Serbs as canon fodder we had pity on them again let them in to Croatian territory in large numbers what a big mistake. Only became ungrateful destroying criminal thieves for mother hive Belgrade the true history no fantasy history.

"Georgievski, who was the first leader of the now ruling VMRO-DPMNE and who also has a Bulgarian citizenship"

If he is a Macedonian/Fyromian person, why does he have a Bulgarian citizenship???? I belive that he is a Bulgarian from Fyrom, not a real Macedonian that we all know are from northern Greece.

To Leonidis..

Thanks for the link though the greek figures are grossly over exagerated..

Kosovo Vilayet had 200 Greeks and not 90 000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_Vilayet#Demographicshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_Vilayet#Demographics

Not even 10% of the monastir vilayet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilayet_of_Manast%C4%B1r

There were more Jews in solonica under Ottoman empire and only 6000 more greeks than bulgarians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thessaloniki#Historical_ethnic_statistics

Now before u discredit my sources.. please note that not one of my Greek friends from Northern Greece could trace there great grandparents from Northern Greece..

My mate even tells me that they sometimes refer to his fathers village in northern Greece with the old slavic name... BTW his Great grandmother was from Izmir and mother from crete..

In my opion, Northern Greece besides Solanica had a majority Bulgarian population, even in the treaty of san stefano Bulgaria never claimed solonica

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_Of_San_Stefano

I've personally been to places like edessa and florina have spoken to slavs from this region, tribute to the slavic roots of this region, i on the other hand have never ever met any greek family from FYROM, and kosovo.. additionally as per above i have never met Northern greek who can claim that there great grand parents were born in Northern greece

As for Alexander the Great.. he's all yours..

(Bulgar of Ohrid, 30 June 2012 13:52)

Your sources are as credible as Fyromian claims they are descendants of ancient Makedonians.Anyone using Wikipedia as a source hasn't got a leg to stand on in his arguments.On the other hand my sources are not Greek as you allege but those of the Ottoman empire which has been credited by many scholars for having an efficient administration of its occupied territories,without one their empire wouldn't last four hundred years,and the census of its populations was carried out by them and which has been verified by the Ottoman archives.

I understand this census is anathema for Fyromians because it demolishes all their arguments about being autochthonous to geographical Makedonia with their own identity and language.Can you let me see where is it mentioned by the Turks that the people of Makedonia spoke a language named makedonian?

The rest of your posting doesn't merit a response because is total nonsense.Makedonia for you is Northen Greece and Thessaliniki is Salonica and that tell me where you're coming from.
You remind me another Fyromian posting on this site saying his knowledge of history was derived from his grandparents and everytime he went to Greece everybody spoke Bulgarian.As to your Greek friends I doubt you have any.

BTW I do claim that not only myself but also my parents and grandparents were born in Makedonia.As a matter of fact my grandfather was killed in Makedonia in the Balkan wars.

The man is a fool and responisible for destabilizing Macedonia. Miraculously, he has done more damage to our history than any other modern politician (bar crvenkovski the cocaine addict) and Frckovski the mafia.

Nobody can deny, every single neighbor of Macedonia wants a piece of it. This has always been the case. I wish Turkey was pro West, so the rest of the world can open up its archives of Macedonian history. Think about it 500 yrs of occupation, it would have real facts about Solun, Mala prespa and Eastern Macedonia. Greece feels threaghtened the most. Why the insecurity?

To all you web fighters sitting behind a keypad, carry on. Your comments amusing, at the least!

I know what my great grandfathers fought for and don't need to market myself.

(UltraBulgarNationalist, 29 June 2012 22:37)

If you really want to learn about ancient Macedonia,its history,people and its culture then you'll have to look beyond Bulgaria,into various internet libraries around the world to learn real history of this great land and not the fabricated one orchestrated by the VMRO fascists.No amount of propaganda from Bulgaria and Fyrom will change the fact that Macedonia's history is and always will be Greek.

If you also want to learn about the history of the early Greek orthodox church you'll have to start with Saint Paul's letters to the Greek Church in Thessaloniki addressed to its people "Thessalonians".These letters were part of the New Testament Bible which was written in Greek,written by St Paul in Greek -a historical fact recognised by all churches.When Greeks were building their monasteries in Mount Athos in the 8th century and Meteora in the 12th Century the Turks were still in Mongolia.

With regard to your point about minorities if you consider the number of votes received by the political party representing the Slavophones in Greece in the last four National & European elections-less than 3000-then your argument about minorities doesn't hold water.This is the propaganda spewed up by Skopje with Gruevski suggesting recently that there are more than a million Slavophones in Greece.One fact though Gruevski won't meention is what happened to 350000 Greeks in Monastiri as recorded by the Ottoman census of 1911.

You folks do realize that Georgievski is under 40 different kinds of medication daily!

He has been completely removed from Macedonian society, I am unsure why is he giving interviews, or who actually interviews him.

The fact he "Ok'd" attack on Serbia pretty much says it all.

He is also an adoptee from Bulgaria and has substantial animosity towards Macedonia in general, yet continues to live in Skopje!
(Dejan, 29 June 2012 16:08)

Yes lets ridicule people who have a different opinion than our own, this is the problem with the uneducated people of Macedonia, this closed minded attitude represents the mindset of a 10 year old kid. Instead of engaging in constuctive conversation lets tease everyone..

If your not sure about the identity of todays macedonians, simply go the the Bitola Museum and see teh Bitola inscriptions, or go to Skopje museam and see the original documents of the Miladinov brothers and see there the Bulgarian reference has been cut off by the communist..

100 years ago %80 percent of Macedonians were illiterate

It's like being insane, to the person thats insane, insanity is normal.. where on earth does it say Tsar Samuel was Macedonian? the Bulgarian Byzantine wars are well documented, yet Macedonians also claim Samuel as there own.. Its those silly communinist that Turned the macedonians against the Bulgarians, Greeks and albanians, they taught the locals through education to hate thy neighbour..

Its a dam shame..

Leonidies

1)Mate im guvaro to my best mate... whats the point of writing posts if we are going to assume everyone is lying and not engage in contructive conservation? thats very sad Leonidis, you sound like somone who has to constantly re-assure himself, very insecure.

2)I'm not doubting your grandfather past away in Macedonia.. though u dont mention where your great grandparents where born? hence my comment about the once slavic make up of norhtern greece

2)Go to the village of Achlada in Florina, there you will see the grave of FYROMs prime ministers grandfather, he fought and died for greece hence show more respect to the slavs

4) your not listening, your source is as just as if not worse than wikipedia

5)Why does it bother u if northern Greece was a majority slav region 100 years ago? today its not obviously, its made up of decendants of Greeks from Asia Minor/Ottoman empire and assimulated slaves.. hence the region has been ethically cleansed... dont blame your losses againts the turks e.g izmir on us.

BTW i've grown up with greeks, i'll say it again, not one greek can trace there great grand parents being born in northern greece, you urself can't even trace your links past ur grandparents ican vuddy, hence northern greece was populated by greeks after the balkan wars hence now a majority. What did they teach you in shcool Leonidis? your not much different to FYROM

"Nah, the Albanians would definitely get first place. FYROMians, probably a close second considering they have practically nothing to do with Alexander the Great. (Zoran, 29 June 2012 15:45)"

-- The Serbs instead keep it real. Followed by a close second by the Russians. Keep it real bro. Word. Know what im sayin :for the cross, for god and mother Serbia. Fo shizzle yo.
(johny, 29 June 2012 23:25)
==============================
Johny,
If you not capable of a good rebuttal you should not reply at all. What the Hell was that?

Tom

Dude 100 years ago %99 of our Grandfathers had names ending with a V.. Tito and co turned the uneducated village people into so called Macedonians, you can not trace your DNA roots to Alexander the Great nor can any greek.. But Characteristacally, our Language, our Culture, our religion is Bulgarian..

Just go to the Bitola Museam and see the inscriptions for yourself.. the kale "dedicated to the Bulgarian people of Bitola"

Of course our Grandfathers fought against the Germans in World War II, but Tito forced a seperate identity with violence and schooling

1) To stop Bulgarian claims on Vardar Macedonia
2) To stop rebellion in Vardar Macedonia, appeasement
2) To claim greece or parts of Greece hence the Greek civil war..

Why was nationalism condoned in Vardar Macedonia and not in other parts of Yugoslavia??

In School they taught that we were related to Ancient macedonia

What a farce...

Just look at all the people born in vardar Macedonia who became Bugarian Generals, politicians.. do the math

To top it off what about the science dna experiment done in skopje recently.. it concluded that Serbs and the Croats had the most simular DNA and that Albanians the most different

and the most non surprising element was that macedonians and Bulgarians had the closest DNA..

Come on, im sick of this dillusional attitude where we just block our ears and yell no no no

@ Metrod...if you would like to understand where Alexander the great came from ...in the Old Testament God, gave a vision to the Profit Daniel of Alexander's coming ,and even spoke of the 2 kings(the Medes and Persians) being vanquished by the one King who was the King of the Greeks (not king of the Macadonians and the Greeks) ...for all of you deniers read Daniel 8:3 -27 ...God didn't say ,2 kingdoms will be vanquished by 2 Kingdoms ....He said 2 will be vanquished by 1....maybe we should start attending Sunday Service again...and stop wanting that which is not meant for us...

Johny, If you not capable of a good rebuttal you should not reply at all. What the Hell was that? (Peggy, 1 July 2012 04:18)

Yes teacher I wont do it again. Can i have permission to go to the bathroom? Before that though, hold on till i get a pen and write down what you said so i know for next time.

Bulgar from Ohrid

Firstly I am not your mate and "I am guvaro" don't know what it means.I assume that people that exercise propaganda are always lying and you're not an exception.Insecurity is more applicable to Bulgars with nearly 1.5million Turks amongst them and Fyrom with 700000 Albanians.

I did say in may posting that my grandparents were born in Makedonia.

I haven't said there were no Slavs living in Greece in the past.

My source is from the Ottoman archives and not from wikipedia.Ckeck it out.

It bothers me that you spread lies and propaganda.When you look at the Ottoman sources they tell the real story which of course people like yourself don't want to see because it doesn't agree with their mindset.I have never said that there were no Greeks from Asia Minor or Pontiaks which didn't settle in Makedonia.They are all Greeks and they have a right to settle anywhere in Greece.

The Grandparents of your friends arrived probably from Mars.My advice to you is to Check out the Ottoman archives.

BTW By 1904 there were more than 1000 Greek schools in Makedonia.

Leonidis

You have proven me right, you think your better than FYROM, but you have the same mindset.. hurl insults and close your ears when it comes to others opionions..

All im saying is geographical Macedonia had more Slavs than greeks 100 years ago, yet you make personal insults about my immigrant greek friends..

Life must be so sad when one is so close minded..

Your source is just as reliable as wikipedia or any other greek instition system..

I never said i hate Greece or wished ill will, i love greece and my mates.. you on the other hand have nothing but hate for slavs, blabbering on as if Turks in Bulgaria and Albanians in Macedonia are a cancer.. who cares if there are 10 million turks or Albanians in Bulgaria.. its not the end of the world my friend.. life goes on..

Please look at your own backyard first.. havent you been watching the news lateley? your nation acts like a disgrace, living on hand outs and wanting more and more at the expense of hard working germans..

BTW ancient greeks where fair and modern greeks look like arabs.. i bet you have no DNA relation to the ancient greeks hence stopped your whining, you may be even half slav half turkic, you cant prove scientfically otherwise

Ur so quick to point the figures

Did Ljubco Georgievski mention in his book that he wanted to have exchange of territories between Macedonia and Albania at the time when he was prime minister? He didn't directly say it, but there was a great uproar when the Macedonian Academy of Sciences and Arts proposed the idea, which was actually his idea, to make a clear border between the Macedonians and Albanians. He wanted to give up Tetovo-Gostivar region in exchange for Mala Prespa region in Albania. I would agree if it would be possible to have a conferedation between Macedonia and Albania, otherwise, it doesn't make any sense, because in both Tetovo-Gostivar and Mala Prespa regions the population is mixed!