Croatia: Anti-gay messages ahead of Pride Parade

I wonder why the USA/EU has not insisted that Pristina hold a gay pride parade, but insists on Croatia and Serbian having them? The US/EU wants to build the Newborn Kosova into its own image of democracy, yet stops short of going all the way. Wonder what the official word from Brussels would be on that? Or maybe the NATO would not have enough KFOR troops to possibly even attempt such an assembly? What do you Albanians here think of holding a gay pride parade in Pristina, with Thaci as the lead marcher?

I wonder where Roberto and Lenard are? They are so quick to condemn Serbia and the lack of gay rights there but when it comes to close to home then they hide in the sewers.
Perhaps the EU was a little quick to grant Croatia EU membership. I guess they got a free pass for being Germanys lapdog.

"A group dubbed “Blood will flow in the streets of Split, there will be no gay parade” appeared on Facebook on March 17, ahead of the Pride Parade in Split. "

Oh no!!!!!!!!!!!! This is just terrible!!!!!! Methinks someone better warn that Roberto of Frisco to avoid Split like the plague during the summer holidays!!!!!!

When can we expect albanian gay pride in Kosova or Montenegro?

This is an issue for all Balkans to deal with, not just Croatia, but Serbia, Albania, Kosova, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Rumania and dare I say it, Greece, Turkey. Now, I believe there is more than enough evidence to show that homosexuality is not a choice, but a biological condition, so religious people and authorities have no right to preach against them. Gay rights are a fundamental must if we believe in equality. What I would add however, and I say this as an atheist and a believer in human rights, is that I do not see how a gay pride march can advance gay rights. I mean, why not have a heterosexual pride? you don't have it, because it is frankly sectarian, it may alienate one group. If gay pride marches are held to demonstrate tolerance of sexuality, then I guess its fine, but I'm not so sure that they are, otherwise they wouldn't be called Gay Pride

I am rather agnostic or undecided than "atheist", Nikolle but what you wrote is precisely what I feel, too. Thanks. And I do not see that these parades did ever any good to LGBT community. The main issue seem to be both commercial and geo-political. I do not need commerce, geo-politics and clergymen in my bedroom.

Of course the group the article is about is just bunch a violent dumasses there is not much difference is it a footy game or gay parade, they want some "fun".

Oh come on, Croatia has got away with genocide twice in recent history. Surely anti-gay parades will be forgotten in no time. Even our friend from frisco couldn't be bothered posting. Move along, there's nothing to see here.

Well spoken LOWE! Don't forget to mention little boy lenard, who more than likely stems from that region as well.

Amused to read the comment about why the US/EU don't insist that Pristina hold a gay parade. What the EU wish to happen is for these parades to be allowed to proceed once they have been organised. No-one is insisting that the authorities of any country actually organise such parades. Should a group in Kosovo announce their intention to have a gay pride parade I am sure that the EU would expect the authorities to do everything within its power to ensure that it passed off without incident.

Ned Tylor, you are absolutely right. People often think that the EU imposes certain things, which is only true to the extent, that it tries to ensure human rights and standards and a demonstration is an expression of freedom and has to be guaranteed, even if it is just a minorty and agains t the majorities will.

Nikolle: Be patient. With parades it starts. And as long as gays and lesbians and other minorities face massive threats because of their identity there is a need for demonstrations. A demonstration draws the attention of the public to a certain topic and you can only solve something if you talk about it. Your impression that those demonstrations are not to the benefit of gays and lesbians and that you have the feeling that the parades do not improve the situation reveals the core of the problem: By showing that there are gays and lesbians (more than 13% in EVERY country) reveals also the tolerance of the society and those which are not tolerant. Hiding or other measures (which?) do not improve the situation. Gays and lesbians also started with parades in the US, EU and so on. It also needed protests to stop slavery, less political rights for those who were not blue blooded, just to name a few examples. As I said, you cannot change something without making it public and drawing the attention of decision makers to a certain topic.

I think that the way their (gays) message is communicated is not the most effective one. I think they would get a lot more results by calling the parade: "Gay Tolerance Parade".

Dressing extravagantly & calling it 'Pride' causes too much reaction instead of people taking the time to think & understand these (gay) people's situations.

I'm sure they feel like going the whole 100 yards straight away because it's their 'right', but they (gays) also need to understand that homosexuality has not been well received by many majorities of many countries, and dressing in leather & calling it 'pride' will only stoke the fire.

All I'm saying is that if they (gays) want the fastest road to acceptance then they should reconsider how they communicate their messages.

When can we expect albanian gay pride in Kosova or Montenegro?
(Alb, 23 March 2012 13:58)

We can start with heterosexual pride in Podgorica first.

The condition: I will ask the mayor to approve a Heterosexual Pride Parade during the daytime, in the city center. Heterosexual people will walk half-naked and imitate normal, missionary-position act between a man and a woman, only Orthodox, Muslim or Catholic and only (together) married people would do that of course.

The mayor of Podgorica will tell: "only if hell freezes over".

Ask the same in Pristina = get the same answer.

So maybe it's not being gay after all, maybe just the pictures from some Gay Pride Parades in the States transmit a totally wrong message.

Now just travel few miles to the beach. Try to walk with your girlfriend in Ulcinj hand-in-hand on the beach both of you 100% naked. No one cares less. Try the same in the very gay-tolerant California, on the beach of Santa Cruz. You will get some sheriff attention pretty soon.

Internet is full of stories about American tourists who tried to call police in Ulcinj because they did see young boys and girls and their parents being naked and playing on the beach.

Hey B-92, While we're on the subject of freedom of petition, protest, speech, assembly, association, and expression for Gays....Has anyone been arrested or charged with making terroristic threats against Gays that resulted in the cancellation of all Gay protests in Belgrade last year? What measures have the Serbian authorities made to ensure that the Parada Ponosa 2012 goes through the Center of Belgrade on a Saturday afternoon without incident this year?

With regards to the comment about Kosova, we're talking to them about putting together a Gay Pride Festival in Kosova. Its gonna look really ugly for Serbia if they allow it to proceed and Serbian skinheads either attack it again this year or get it cancelled with terroristic threats. Just sayin'.

The Croatian authorities appear to be doing what Serbia is unwilling to do...actually taking steps to protect the basic freedoms of speech, petition, protest, assembly, association, and assembly for minorites. We shall see on June 9 in Split how well they do. And we will see if Serbia can or is willing to protect 100 Gay people marching down the street in their national capital in October.

Bottom line.

Comm. Parrisson:
You cannot compare Carnaval or a football match with a parade for minority rights. As long as these people have to fear for their lives if they are discovered, something definitely goes the wrong way. They should be just part of the society as everyone else: Not hated, not feared, not tolerated, but acepted.
The constant bashing of gays and lesbians in Serbia shows the difference. Nobody gets beaten up for going to Carnaval.
And you are right, in some western countries those parades look like Carnaval and you get the impression that it is just fun. But this is just a result of a long fight for rights and they are still worse of than others in most western countries.

...............
I see the point with "pride". It should be nothing to be proud of but also not something to be ashamed of. Just as people with big noses, blond hair or whatever. ;) On the other hand "pride" is often used in the protesting language such as "black pride". In other countries the parades are called CSD (Christopher Street Day) which relates to the beginning of protests in the US. Maybe more suitable...

One more thing that Serbs and Croats have in common :)

But I don't see a reason for holding a pride parade, neither. For me, it's just a fun project, like carnival parades - both are not necessary, but there's no reason to oppose it. If you don't wanna see it, simply stay away! I don't complain about football matches held, I just don't go to the stadium. But if people have some entertainment watching 20 persons running around on the grass chasing a ball, let them have their fun.

"When can we expect albanian gay pride in Kosova or Montenegro?"

Alb

Not neccessary since everyone there is already gay.

Move along, there's nothing to see here.
(Zoran, 23 March 2012 23:13)
# Comment link

nothing to see, he/she claims and yet still comments

This is an issue for all Balkans to deal with, not just Croatia, but Serbia, Albania, Kosova, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Rumania and dare I say it, Greece, Turkey. Now, I believe there is more than enough evidence to show that homosexuality is not a choice, but a biological condition, so religious people and authorities have no right to preach against them. Gay rights are a fundamental must if we believe in equality. What I would add however, and I say this as an atheist and a believer in human rights, is that I do not see how a gay pride march can advance gay rights. I mean, why not have a heterosexual pride? you don't have it, because it is frankly sectarian, it may alienate one group. If gay pride marches are held to demonstrate tolerance of sexuality, then I guess its fine, but I'm not so sure that they are, otherwise they wouldn't be called Gay Pride

I wonder where Roberto and Lenard are? They are so quick to condemn Serbia and the lack of gay rights there but when it comes to close to home then they hide in the sewers.
Perhaps the EU was a little quick to grant Croatia EU membership. I guess they got a free pass for being Germanys lapdog.

Oh come on, Croatia has got away with genocide twice in recent history. Surely anti-gay parades will be forgotten in no time. Even our friend from frisco couldn't be bothered posting. Move along, there's nothing to see here.

Amused to read the comment about why the US/EU don't insist that Pristina hold a gay parade. What the EU wish to happen is for these parades to be allowed to proceed once they have been organised. No-one is insisting that the authorities of any country actually organise such parades. Should a group in Kosovo announce their intention to have a gay pride parade I am sure that the EU would expect the authorities to do everything within its power to ensure that it passed off without incident.

Ned Tylor, you are absolutely right. People often think that the EU imposes certain things, which is only true to the extent, that it tries to ensure human rights and standards and a demonstration is an expression of freedom and has to be guaranteed, even if it is just a minorty and agains t the majorities will.

Nikolle: Be patient. With parades it starts. And as long as gays and lesbians and other minorities face massive threats because of their identity there is a need for demonstrations. A demonstration draws the attention of the public to a certain topic and you can only solve something if you talk about it. Your impression that those demonstrations are not to the benefit of gays and lesbians and that you have the feeling that the parades do not improve the situation reveals the core of the problem: By showing that there are gays and lesbians (more than 13% in EVERY country) reveals also the tolerance of the society and those which are not tolerant. Hiding or other measures (which?) do not improve the situation. Gays and lesbians also started with parades in the US, EU and so on. It also needed protests to stop slavery, less political rights for those who were not blue blooded, just to name a few examples. As I said, you cannot change something without making it public and drawing the attention of decision makers to a certain topic.

I wonder why the USA/EU has not insisted that Pristina hold a gay pride parade, but insists on Croatia and Serbian having them? The US/EU wants to build the Newborn Kosova into its own image of democracy, yet stops short of going all the way. Wonder what the official word from Brussels would be on that? Or maybe the NATO would not have enough KFOR troops to possibly even attempt such an assembly? What do you Albanians here think of holding a gay pride parade in Pristina, with Thaci as the lead marcher?

"A group dubbed “Blood will flow in the streets of Split, there will be no gay parade” appeared on Facebook on March 17, ahead of the Pride Parade in Split. "

Oh no!!!!!!!!!!!! This is just terrible!!!!!! Methinks someone better warn that Roberto of Frisco to avoid Split like the plague during the summer holidays!!!!!!

When can we expect albanian gay pride in Kosova or Montenegro?

I am rather agnostic or undecided than "atheist", Nikolle but what you wrote is precisely what I feel, too. Thanks. And I do not see that these parades did ever any good to LGBT community. The main issue seem to be both commercial and geo-political. I do not need commerce, geo-politics and clergymen in my bedroom.

Of course the group the article is about is just bunch a violent dumasses there is not much difference is it a footy game or gay parade, they want some "fun".

Hey B-92, While we're on the subject of freedom of petition, protest, speech, assembly, association, and expression for Gays....Has anyone been arrested or charged with making terroristic threats against Gays that resulted in the cancellation of all Gay protests in Belgrade last year? What measures have the Serbian authorities made to ensure that the Parada Ponosa 2012 goes through the Center of Belgrade on a Saturday afternoon without incident this year?

With regards to the comment about Kosova, we're talking to them about putting together a Gay Pride Festival in Kosova. Its gonna look really ugly for Serbia if they allow it to proceed and Serbian skinheads either attack it again this year or get it cancelled with terroristic threats. Just sayin'.

The Croatian authorities appear to be doing what Serbia is unwilling to do...actually taking steps to protect the basic freedoms of speech, petition, protest, assembly, association, and assembly for minorites. We shall see on June 9 in Split how well they do. And we will see if Serbia can or is willing to protect 100 Gay people marching down the street in their national capital in October.

Bottom line.

Well spoken LOWE! Don't forget to mention little boy lenard, who more than likely stems from that region as well.

One more thing that Serbs and Croats have in common :)

But I don't see a reason for holding a pride parade, neither. For me, it's just a fun project, like carnival parades - both are not necessary, but there's no reason to oppose it. If you don't wanna see it, simply stay away! I don't complain about football matches held, I just don't go to the stadium. But if people have some entertainment watching 20 persons running around on the grass chasing a ball, let them have their fun.

"When can we expect albanian gay pride in Kosova or Montenegro?"

Alb

Not neccessary since everyone there is already gay.

When can we expect albanian gay pride in Kosova or Montenegro?
(Alb, 23 March 2012 13:58)

We can start with heterosexual pride in Podgorica first.

The condition: I will ask the mayor to approve a Heterosexual Pride Parade during the daytime, in the city center. Heterosexual people will walk half-naked and imitate normal, missionary-position act between a man and a woman, only Orthodox, Muslim or Catholic and only (together) married people would do that of course.

The mayor of Podgorica will tell: "only if hell freezes over".

Ask the same in Pristina = get the same answer.

So maybe it's not being gay after all, maybe just the pictures from some Gay Pride Parades in the States transmit a totally wrong message.

Now just travel few miles to the beach. Try to walk with your girlfriend in Ulcinj hand-in-hand on the beach both of you 100% naked. No one cares less. Try the same in the very gay-tolerant California, on the beach of Santa Cruz. You will get some sheriff attention pretty soon.

Internet is full of stories about American tourists who tried to call police in Ulcinj because they did see young boys and girls and their parents being naked and playing on the beach.

Comm. Parrisson:
You cannot compare Carnaval or a football match with a parade for minority rights. As long as these people have to fear for their lives if they are discovered, something definitely goes the wrong way. They should be just part of the society as everyone else: Not hated, not feared, not tolerated, but acepted.
The constant bashing of gays and lesbians in Serbia shows the difference. Nobody gets beaten up for going to Carnaval.
And you are right, in some western countries those parades look like Carnaval and you get the impression that it is just fun. But this is just a result of a long fight for rights and they are still worse of than others in most western countries.

...............
I see the point with "pride". It should be nothing to be proud of but also not something to be ashamed of. Just as people with big noses, blond hair or whatever. ;) On the other hand "pride" is often used in the protesting language such as "black pride". In other countries the parades are called CSD (Christopher Street Day) which relates to the beginning of protests in the US. Maybe more suitable...

I think that the way their (gays) message is communicated is not the most effective one. I think they would get a lot more results by calling the parade: "Gay Tolerance Parade".

Dressing extravagantly & calling it 'Pride' causes too much reaction instead of people taking the time to think & understand these (gay) people's situations.

I'm sure they feel like going the whole 100 yards straight away because it's their 'right', but they (gays) also need to understand that homosexuality has not been well received by many majorities of many countries, and dressing in leather & calling it 'pride' will only stoke the fire.

All I'm saying is that if they (gays) want the fastest road to acceptance then they should reconsider how they communicate their messages.

Move along, there's nothing to see here.
(Zoran, 23 March 2012 23:13)
# Comment link

nothing to see, he/she claims and yet still comments