@You really are trying to make it sound that this is simply a reaction to Thaci. It isn't. If those at the barricades were saying they do not want Thaci's cronies up there I may have grounds to believe you, what they are asking for is the removal of ETHNIC Albanian policeman. key word there being ethnic.
(adriatik, 22 October 2011 10:37)
Sorry, adriatik - I was not aware you are still present in this thread.
That is why I did not respond to your explanation of the background of your own humilations, suffering, grievances - and the reason for the appearance of armed resistance ( as far as UCK fighters are concerned: it needs to be seen in how far they committed crimes and in particular crimes against humanity. For all others applies: it needs to be established whether or not they terminated their "career" in the organisation when thge UCK allegedly was disbanded. But that is another quite strange story).
I agree that all the harm and distress from the 90ies is not supposed to be forgotten - I do not. Anyway, it can explain a lot. But: I suppose you agree that crimes committed in the 90ies or whenever can never JUSTIFY crimes committed later on and until today.
Still there is a strong suspicion which is according to analysts supported by ahigh degree of hard evidence that the institutions in Pristina are not only corrupt but largely under the control of the organised crime. That again suggests that all officials sent by the strongman in Pristina are under the suspicion as well to be loyal to the warlord and alleged "big fish" in organised crime.
Therefore and as long a Kosovo Albanians do not free themselves of the corrupt and probably criminal regime they isolate themselves - and cannot expect that officials from their ethic community are welcome in North Kosovo. Last point: Negotiations just gained momentum when the known unilateral step stirred up trouble - the step was accompanied by Thaci´s threat to send his "judges" to the Nort of river Ibar (KFOR emphasised concern about - thus receiving the announcement as provocation). The usual and internationally to a far extend agreed procedure after such unilateral and provocative steps: Return to status ante and sit together to negotiate. That might make you and others increasingly impatient. Sorry - there is no alternative if you want to come peacefully to a sustainable solution.
No aaayyy it really makes no difference whatsoever. What do you think Serbia is saying in these talks that it has already had with the Albanians? I can't talk to you because Brazil doesn't recognize you? The recognition is merely an act of symbolism. Its basically what Serbia is doing now. In theory it does not recognize the new country. In practice it has. How? Very simple. It has removed the 1.8 million Albanians from the Serbian electoral roll. What does this mean? It either envisages taking the territory by force and then expelling all Albanians, or it has recognized that Kosovo is a lost cause. It has erected a trade ban. Only countries can erect trade bans against each other. No country refuses to trade with its own province. Last. It says it does not acknowledge the independence, yet it has engaged in conversation with people who are signatories to the declaration of independence and as such, given them political legitimacy. Of course no government will ever say Kosovo is lost, as that is such an obvious vote loser. However, the most rational Serb can see past such stances. The other factor to consider is the economic sacrifice Serbia is making to disrupt Kosovo. It is costing it to the tune one 16 EURO's per second. What is the return on that? Negative. Don't worry, while many Serbs will long and hard protest that Kosovo is still part of Serbia, the others accept the reality
I really do not wish to ruin whatever camaraderie has been established between us. We both are probably more Londoners than either Albanians or Serb. If you truly believe that Kosovar Albanians had no reason to feel aggrieved, then you are deluded. Read various human rights reports, various history books that were not written by serbs or albanians. no my friend, there were actual reasons why people felt occupied.
balkanbert
You really are trying to make it sound that this is simply a reaction to Thaci. It isn't. If those at the barricades were saying they do not want Thaci's cronies up there I may have grounds to believe you, what they are asking for is the removal of ETHNIC Albanian policeman. key word there being ethnic.
It MAKES difference how many countries have recognized Kosovo. For example Russia, China, Brasil haven't recognized Kosovo and it means that situation could be changed in the future.
(aaayyy, 21 October 2011 22:00)
Sure the situation in Russia, China and Brasil can change in the future. Not sure what that has to do with Kosovo. The last time I checked the map, Kosovo was still in Europe, not Asia or Latin America.
The reality in the ground is that Belgrade has got close ties with Kosovo North, all Albanian nationalists complain about it.
(aaayyy, 21 October 2011 22:00)
Who cares what some Albanian nationalist complain or not ? Serb citizen of Kosovo have the right to do that under Kosovo's Constitution the same way that Albanians have the right to do the same with Albania; the same way that, say, the Hewbrew community in New York does with Israel.
And Kosovo's Constitution cannot change without K. Serbs consent, regardless of what the Albanians think.
What do you mean by "Most countries have not recognized Kosovo as part of Serbia"? The countries which haven't said anything, recognized Kosovo as part of Serbia by defaulf. Do you know what "by default" means?
(aaayyy, 21 October 2011 21:38)
Sure I know. “By default” means that a “Yes” is, by default, at “Yes”. A “No” is, by default, a “No”. A nothing is, by default, a nothing. Whoever does not agree with the default, has to provide evidence to the contrary.
If a region declared its independence, the silence from the other countries means they didn't recognize it. To make it easier for you to understand, say, I declared independence of a site around my country house an independent state and, can you imagine, no country has said so far it hasn't recognized it. Does it mean that the whole world recognized my newly created state? Options for you to answer:
1) Yes
2) No
3) i don't know.
(aaayyy, 21 October 2011 21:38)
It depends on the question you asked those other countries and an assumption about what silence means. Let’s assume that silence means “No” (as somebody called Peggy says). So, if you asked the other countries “do you still recognize the region as part of the previous country?” and there is silence, than we conclude that they no longer recognize the region as part of the previous country. If the silence means “Yes” (sorry Peggy) than we conclude that they still consider the region as part of the previous country.
As you can see there are many unknown variables to make a definitive conclusion. That’s why we need to know what the other countries explicitly said in order to make a conclusion. Now, if you want to make assumptions that make you happy, by all means go ahead and make them; just don’t expect the others to take your assumptions as facts.
It makes absolutely ZERO difference how many countries have recognized Kosovo. The reality in the ground is this, Belgrade does not run Kosovo.
(adriatik, 20 October 2011 22:44)
It MAKES difference how many countries have recognized Kosovo. For example Russia, China, Brasil haven't recognized Kosovo and it means that situation could be changed in the future.
The reality in the ground is that Belgrade has got close ties with Kosovo North, all Albanian nationalists complain about it.
I personally don't know if Serbia is interested in keeping Presheva, but your comment assumes that Serbia and "Kosovo" have the same status, while it is far from it. Most countries haven't recognized self-proclaimed Kosovo state.
(aaayyy, 20 October 2011 21:49)
Most countries have not recognized Kosovo as part of Serbia either. In any case, that's irrelevant. Whatever the status of Kosovo it does not change the fact that Serbia and Kosovo can swap territories, if they so agree.
(icj1, 21 October 2011 03:41)
What do you mean by "Most countries have not recognized Kosovo as part of Serbia"? The countries which haven't said anything, recognized Kosovo as part of Serbia by defaulf. Do you know what "by default" means?
If a region declared its independence, the silence from the other countries means they didn't recognize it. To make it easier for you to understand, say, I declared independence of a site around my country house an independent state and, can you imagine, no country has said so far it hasn't recognized it. Does it mean that the whole world recognized my newly created state? Options for you to answer:
... once again denial of reality and facts. Thaci started the trouble like he tends to do by sending his officials to the administartive checkpoints in question - one can assume they are loyal to the warlord. This was a unilateral and not agreed step - as such a clear-cut case of provocation. At the same time he announced the appointment of his "judges" to North Mitrovica - KFOR raised concern about this next step of escalation. BTW: Do you occasionally look into B92 news?
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2011&mm=10&dd=21&nav_id=76970
Time is running out for the warlord and his accomplices...
What's all this talk about Serbian occupation of Kosovo in 1912?
Ask any unbiased person in the whole world about who have been the main occupiers of Kosovo throughout its history and for the longest periods of time and they will tell you SERBS!
Kosovo has changed rulers at times but has been declared Serbian many times by many different empires. Kosovo was named Serbian for rightful reasons.
Now for just one tiny part of the present which will one day be a tiny part of history where the Serbs were not the main occupiers...it does not mean that Kosovo is not Serbian.
It's not the first time Germany has tried to take Kosovo away from Serbia. The US has been this century's economic power (built on slavery) but clearly nobody likes them (except Albanians) and they will fall soon enough.
Stay strong Serbs, stay at the barricades & stand up to the highly armoured KFOR whimps because they have not one tenth of the courage and spirit that us Serbians have.
Adriatik-passive resistance to what? Nothing, that's what. They just didn't start violently agitiating for trouble until later. Just your common garden variety troublemakers Im afraid with a cause. Irridentists and separatists. Macedonia next up would be my guess.
I've had enough of these "peace" keepers in Kosovo.
I think we should all turn against them and remove them from Kosovo altogether.
The only problem with this? The K.Albanians are being favoured and do not want to see them disappear because they can't stand on their own two feet nor can they make compromise or negotiate reasonably.
I think the only solution now is ww3 OR a new treaty organisation is made and it can 'counter' the injustices caused around the world by NATO!
We call know how much destruction & bloodshed is caused by NATO yet there is no group powerful enough to stop it. With the rise of the people and the fall of regimes around the world, a new treaty should be made that combats brute force and doesn't allow NATO to conduct drone bombings & play with their guns like toys.
The new treat could enter Kosovo, stop any tear gas & rubber bullets being fired by KFOR & make sure that no side is favoured. The Albanians and the Serbians should be the ones to decide as they are the ones with the history in Kosovo and NOT Germany or the US.
Is anyone ready to make an alliance that counters NATOs illegal use of force?
According to you, these barricades were erected because Thaci is under suspicion of of the most horrendous crimes and he is wanting to establish his law and order there. nonsense. this has NOTHING to do with Thaci. if i follow your logic, should a LDK Albanian become Prime Minister (LDK had nothing to do with the KLA) the barricades will be removed. Utter rubbish. the barricades are there because the North does not want to recognize the authority of Prishtina, be they KLA, LDK or Buddhists. They have called for the removal of ETHNIC Albanians from the border post. that is self explanatory. what they want, is Belgrade to take control. this has nothing to do with Thaci being under suspicion for war crimes. i'm afraid it is an ethnic issue sadly. you can deny it till kingdom come, it wont make it any less true.
as for the radicalization of albanians, in all movements you have factions. 8 years albanians pursued passive resistance. 8 years they were ignored. they were stripped of most rights, kicked out of universities and a period of police state followed. in 1997, when at the initiation of the Vatican, an agreement was reached for Kosovar Albanian students to have access to university buildings the first signs of dissent showed. students were beaten for demanding the implementation of the agreement. they did not erect barricades, they actually just walked en masse to the city centre. i was there. that only radicalized albanians further. when finally the deal was carried out, all uni buildings had their windows smashed, walls vandalized and tables broken. this was done, not by the police sadly, but by ordinary Serb students who had taken over to try and stop the deal from going through. no my friend, it wasn't that the albanians were hungry for war. after all, what army could face the arsenal of Serbia, which, included tanks, planes, APC's and the rest? Serbia's own policies gave the KLA the impetus.
They weren't brave enough to negotiate a lasting and fair compromise. They were playing tough guys hiding behind NATO.
(Zoran, 20 October 2011 13:45)
Zoran,
Had you spread these lies 20 years ago, you would probably impress someone as at that time not all people had access to information that would prove you lie. However, doing these things in the eleventh year of 21st century is more than preposterous as all of us now have access to the same information you do.
Allow me to tell you that was no fair and lasting compromise that would satisfy you Serbs even if we Albanians agreed to one. Never in two years of negotiations from 2005 until 2007, Serbian delegation had opened the details of that plan called more than autonomy less than independence. They had never agreed to serious negotiations. While in one of Viena meetings they offered Kosovo to be demilitarized zone, in another they requested the Serbian military be allowed to return to Kosovo.
Furthermore your constitution that was approved in the end of 2006 (during negotiations where Kosovo Albanians were not eligible to participate - although at least declaratively you consider them your citizens) say that the only organ competent to ensure the autonomy for Kosovo is Serbian Parlament. This means that any agreed solution in negotiations will be prone to sole interpretation of Serbian Parlament, practically will mean what you say it means without taking in consideration the legitim rights and concerns of majority of Kosovo's population. With this paragraph Serbia has withdrew the already unserious offer to Kosovo Albanians.
Let me remind you that the fact that we Albanians live in Kosovo does not mean that we live in your land. Serbia has occupied Kosovo in 1912 while Albanians in Kosovo lived centuries ago before that year.
And bravety is to fight these your objectives and cowardice is to accept this "solution" and not vice versus.
@(adriatik, 21 October 2011 11:59)
... well, in other cases of Balkan warlords procedures have been like in countries where the rule of law has been established already. They have been taken in custody. If evidence is substantial like in the Thaci case - according to analysts quoted in well-respected international media - he has to wait behind bars for the trial. That happens in all nations of law known to me - and to all suspects when there is a danger of supression of evidence. Here we have more. There is strong suspicion of entaglement in killing of witnesses.
So, and the predominatly Serb population in North-Kosovo should sit and wait until this warlord under suspicion of cruel crimes and war-crimes extends his regime to their homeland? Can I figure from your history lecturing about the time before 1999 that they have to take up arms if nobody wants to listen to their legitimate peacful protest? Think about what you are saying.
And don´t come up with the freedom-of-movement argument again. In an unbiased and unprejudiced approach to a balance of legaly protected interests, the limitations in freedom of movement caused by the legitimate protest in North-Kosovo against the provocations of the warlord under suspicion of most severe crimes are to be considered as acceptable - my opinion.
If EULEX simply refuses to discuss with the overwhelming majority in the concerned municipalities about their worris it raises another suspicion: The European countries dominating EULEX want to divert attention from the fact that they contributed to NATO´s "efforts" to bomb the mentioned warlord and his accomplices in power.
Do people understand interconnected economies. You think this financial crisis that the West is experiencing now wont have ramifications in China?
(adriatik, 21 October 2011 10:37)
--
You are a funny fellow. The Western economic crisis has been around for a few years and yet China's economy continues to grow at 10% each year. India, Brazil and others are not too far behind either. The reason? Well, they are relying more and more on their local economies. There are about a billion people in the West whereas China has 1.3 billion and India following closely with 1.2. They have a cheap and efficient labour force and this next cycle will be a long and prosperous one for anyone aligned with the BRICs.
Yes, this is about cycles my friend and the cycle of Western dominance has almost ended. As usual, Albanians choose the wrong side at the wrong time, as history has shown time and again. Just wait and see.
The financial crises in the west is benefiting the Orthodox Brotherhood as it is brining forward something that would have taken 30 years to achieve. The only western countries not on the watch list are Germany, Canada and Australia – that’s it baby. The US is currently 47 trillion dollars up the proverbial creek and this one was even mentioned recently in the US on Fox of all TV channels.
You really need to stop reading fairytales as this financial crises is far more dangerous than anything so far in western histrory.
(sj, 21 October 2011 03:24)
SJ
Your comments are full of decorations and beautifications with intelectual terminology, but they lack two main elements which are: logic and common sense.
Even if I take that your comment about EU and US are in brink of financial collapse and the future is in Russia and China is true, did you consider your personal future in those two countries? I mean if I were you and if convinced on sincerity of my comments, I would move my savings to one of those two countries that I considered prosperous and go to live over there. Only when I put my foot either in China or Russia, then I would post comments like this advising people to stop reading fairytales and do what I did.
Otherwise, since 2007 your comments were mostly similar, while you keep contradicting yourself over and over and not being honest. Are you stupid? Of course not, you just have not been honest in your comment. Otherwise, if you were convinced that what you say will happen, you would do exactly what I said above.
My impression of you is that you have an image of what Serbia should be. Allow me to tell, it'll never happen. What you can do is dream about it, as you blatenly are
Adriatik- the chaos many envisaged by the UDI is close to happening. Because you wish to change the borders without negotiation, now you suggest all these different interests and changes. Rs and Krajina to Serbia, Presevo to Albania, Istria to Italy, Vojvodina to Hungary etc. Lets just all declare independence why dont we. Congratulations, the pandoras box has been totally opened. And yes, we lost the battle, the war is a different matter. No shame in losing to the most powerful killing machine in history though.
Of course it's good to talk. I am all for a compromise solution. It will be better for everyone in the long run. It may be hard to believe but I want a better life for all the people of the region, some more so than others admittedly. The serbs have been trying to talk, understand that things will never be like before, and the Albanians have their legitimate requirements. But every time we start getting somewhere Thaci starts talking tough. This guy just shouldn't be in politics. He served his purpose and should now either be sent to the Hague or put out to pasture. Speaking for myself, I would be happy if Serbia kept the North and control of its holy sites. The Albanians will get almost everything they wanted anyway. It is the Albs who are all or nothing. Serbia has been trying to get out of this with at least some dignity for ages. If the Albs feel Serbs don't deserve any dignity in Kosovo, then accept it as some sort of noblesse oblige. Show us how to treat people then. Albs- speak to your representatives and tell em to cut a deal.
This is what your telling me, The Greeks will join in a union with the Macedonians (ahem) to resolve the Albanian 'problem' once and for all. Greek & Macedonians together?
(adriatik, 21 October 2011 00:22)
--
LOL! I like your style, make up a story and then disprove it.
In fact, in all likelihood, FYROM will probably form another union with Serbia along with Montenegro and BiH.
The West has overstretched its influence and it will have to retreat. I really can't see it going beyond Croatia, Hungary, Slovakia and Poland. Even holding onto some of those will be difficult when prosperity faces East.
I have read you say warlord this warlord that countless times. Allow me to tell you why these 'warlords' exist. from 1989 to 1997, most Albanians had never even heard of the KLA and pursued a policy of passive resistance. it got them nowhere. bullets and blood sadly, managed to the attention of the Serbs first of all and then the world. so Serbian policies DIRECTLY led to the creation of these 'warlords'. as for thaci, i have told you before, if as you say there is enough evidence to convict him, let Hague indict him already, put forth the proof and have him sent to prison where he belongs. however, do not confuse every single KLA member for a 'warlord'. remember, kosovar's wanted talks before 1999, they were pushed aside.
Srboljub
Yes, the voices of moderates was not so loud when there was an army in 1997/98. allow me to tell you why serbs now want talks, because they lost the war. that's it. what Serbia wants is to change Kosovo's borders along ethnic lines. fine, however, there are Albanians inside Serbia proper who also make the majority that would like join with Kosovo. so yes let us swap ladns mutually, shake hands and sign a deal. do not make it sound though as if its only the strongheadness of the Albanians that is in the way
I have read countless conspiracy theories, but the ones here are the best. The Orthodox Brotherhood is apparently starting and its first line of fire are the Albanians. How are you going to deal with them, murder? Without even getting to this fantasy, how is this union (it'll NEVER happen) going to make Catholic Croatia feel? Serbs on these forums still talk about ''reclaiming'' Krajina. How will NATO react to a growth in Russian influence in the Balkans? How will the EU react to it? Honestly, I do not know what you people are reading, but whatever it is, it has played tricks with your heads and managed to brainwash you beyond even the powers of Jesus.
Out of the question, these borders were not drawn by Albanians, it was drwan by the jugoslavs, Kosova's borders will remain intact and looks like KFOR will make sure Kosova's territorial integrity is respected.
(Skifteri, 21 October 2011 00:20)
--
You are correct, the borders of KiM will not change and while the Yugoslavs were drawing those borders, KiM was delegated a province of Serbia. Now that will not change. The West in the Balkans will be history soon enough so no need to convince anyone.
@ The reality in the ground is this, Belgrade does not run Kosovo.
(adriatik, 20 October 2011 22:44)
Right - does not advance our knowledge substantially, I am afraid. Anyway, the territory momentary under the provisions of UN WSCR 1244 has "former" warlords on top of the institutions in its population center, who would sit in most of the countries where rule of law has been established already in detention - because there are investigation proceedings against them underway for most severe crimes and supporting evidence is multitudinously according to analyst quoted in reputale international media. Grounds for taking them in custody would be danger of suppression of evidence. Would you agree?
The agencies authorised to take the necessary steps to detain the suspects have failed to do so. Taking into account and considering the full spectrum of internationally recognized civil rights and human rights standards it is fully justified and legitimate if people take to the streets - even if that limits freedom of movement. In countries where the rule of law has been established already you call that balancing of legally protected interests.
KFOR is acting on command and not to blame for what is happening. However and so far as I can see it, EULEX failed to balance the legally protected interest in several aspects of the current crisis.
Do people understand interconnected economies. You think this financial crisis that the West is experiencing now wont have ramifications in China? Even if doesn't, you people seriously believe a union between the Orthodox Balkans will ever happen? Lets Greece has designs on Macedonia, as does Bulgaria and they're both Orthodox. Honestly you people are still stuck in the Ottoman Empire mode. Turkey, for all its faults, is a far stronger country, both economically and militarily than Greece. Both are part of NATO, currently the strongest military alliance in the world. Stop reading the Orthodox gazette because it has filled your heads with unrealistic scenarios
And now MR.Tadic ?.. you will send your army ?
(Luigi, 20 October 2011 09:44)
For what ? To help KFOR implement resolution 1244 by ensuring freedom of movement of the N. Kosovo inhabitants ? It appears KFOR is able to manage that by itself; no need for any army's help... but I'm sure KFOR appreciates the offer.
The entire EU is in financial crises, mate and not just Greece. Read the papers where S&Ps have threatened to downgrade France. The west is so far in dodo that it needs a ladder to see the gutter.
“Do you know that Turkey and Albania have a defense agreement?”
This is a priceless statement – Turkey and Albania have a defence agreement. Yeah so what? One impoverished country trying to defend another – hello is there any logic in your brain. Turkey can’t control the Kurds let alone help Albania.
Then again why would they need a defence agreement when they are now in NATO?????
The financial crises in the west is benefiting the Orthodox Brotherhood as it is brining forward something that would have taken 30 years to achieve. The only western countries not on the watch list are Germany, Canada and Australia – that’s it baby. The US is currently 47 trillion dollars up the proverbial creek and this one was even mentioned recently in the US on Fox of all TV channels.
You really need to stop reading fairytales as this financial crises is far more dangerous than anything so far in western histrory.
I personally don't know if Serbia is interested in keeping Presheva, but your comment assumes that Serbia and "Kosovo" have the same status, while it is far from it. Most countries haven't recognized self-proclaimed Kosovo state.
(aaayyy, 20 October 2011 21:49)
Most countries have not recognized Kosovo as part of Serbia either. In any case, that's irrelevant. Whatever the status of Kosovo it does not change the fact that Serbia and Kosovo can swap territories, if they so agree.
As far as I have heard the serbian military ran away from KLA fighters if the serbian army diden't have tanks and heavy arms in their desposial.
(Demi, 20 October 2011 16:50)
LOL where'd you read that? The Onion or New Kosova Report? :)
if the serbs from all over the world who left the mother country and preach from the luxury and freedoms of western living and invest your time in action and not words... I advocate an idea, you should all fly to north kosova and sit and protest with with your fellow brethren and have a couple of millions serbs from all over the world prtesting at the check points or send $100 each for support , thats leverage and then you would achieve your dreams. Stop wasting time talking act.... Act now!
In the eu there are no borders so whats the point
kosovo serbs they are been played by Serb political parties from Belgrade and in the end kosovo serbs will be left on they on , kosovo is a whole, borders will not change deal with it .
I can`t beleive serbs asked for people to control KFOR and let them through , who do they think they are ?
To talk about KFOR and Albanian police leaving Kosovo North.
(aaayyy, 20 October 2011 21:55)
_____________________
Out of the question, these borders were not drawn by Albanians, it was drwan by the jugoslavs, Kosova's borders will remain intact and looks like KFOR will make sure Kosova's territorial integrity is respected.
Its not the Albanians the serbs need to convince for land swap, its the west.
Since they (west) have ruled out exchange of territoty than there is nothing K-serbs can do but watch KFOR extend Kosova's rule to the north by removing the barricades.
I think the history of Tsar Dushan has gone to your head. This is what your telling me, The Greeks will join in a union with the Macedonians (ahem) to resolve the Albanian 'problem' once and for all. Greek & Macedonians together? Let us not stop there however. Greece being a NATO member and Albania being a NATO member and will be at war apparently. Gee dude, if this is EVER to happen, it's not going to occur for at least another 200 years. You know what, Greece had the power (in theory) to stop the bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999. If it so cherished its Orthodox brother, you'd have to ask, why didn't it stop it? You seriously have let the glory years of Dushan get your head. Let it go, seriously.
John Massey there is a difference, you have attempted to defeat my point, I have not contradicted myself. You are implying that Belgrade should held to a higher standard than Pristina.
I am saying that the internationals don't have an emotional stake in the Kosovo 'conflict'. For that reason and for the fact that they talk of human rights they should be held to that higher standard.
Riot troops and tear gas are usually deployed against rioters / terrorists. This is as much an embarassment for the internationals to behave like this as anything else.
Do you know that Turkey and Albania have a defense agreement?
(adriatik, 20 October 2011 19:59)
--
LOL! I do now! Turkey looks to be in a bit of a bother also. Which of its neighbours actually likes Turkey? Looks like Turkey and Albania will be in the same boat soon. I suppose that's the problem of being too far east and a member of NATO.
However Kosovo is recognized as a state by some of the most powerful nations in the world and they will never allow a few dozen Serbs to set up mini control zones inside Kosovo.
I think if both sides sat down and listen to each other a compromise can be reached.
(Gjakove, 20 October 2011 19:37)
Why not a few dozen Serbs to set up mini control zones inside Kosovo? Isn't it a good compromise?
"There are also Albanians in Presheva who most likely would like to join their bretheren in Kosovo."
adriatik
The albanians in Presevo don't have anything to fear by the surrounding serb majority unlike the serbs in Kosovo. However, no one would be happier then me if albs and serbs part once and for all. The problem is that you albs live on Serbian soil. So a landswap is not possible. Its like giving yourself something that is already yours. Just because albanians have 10 children per family and now form a majority in Kosovo doesn't give you the right to someone elses territorry. I do hope there is a final solution so that we never ever have to see eachother again. A future with theives, murderers and arsonists is out of the question.
(MikeC, 20 October 2011 19:05)
Mike I have no idea what you are talking about maybe in past few families had 10 children and this was in titos time but I do not know many families that have more than 3 children today 4 max.
In rural areas maybe still some reach 5 or 6 but that's normal when you work in field you need many hands its like htis most places in the world.
the idea of albanians having 10 kids comes from Titos time where he said who ever has 10Children he would become Godfather to that chield and some Albanian families did reach 10 children and it was all over the news.
On the other hand so could Serbian ones, Also Slobo did put same thing and it was for 3 children and you get 2 years off for Maternity leave paid. Albanians took advantage of that but sou could Serbs. the think that really hurt Serbs was that they did not count on Albaninas sendin Kids abroad they thought this will hurt them by lowering the number they did not count on Albanians saving money and buying land and sending most of Money home.
I come from a family of 4 = 2 boys and 2 girls we are all educated in USA, Austria but what issue do you have with us Albanians having more kids I think we are contributing to our country and this world in a productive way so I wish my parents had few more so more good would come in this world :)
Bill, what planet are you on, and I quote you "Kosovo will take care of them as well, just like they did with the serbs living in the southern part2, how ironic that you make this statement at a time when Serbian returnees are attacked and one person was killed, (police are looking for 1 Albanian suspect).I have visted the places villages inhabited by Serbians living in Novo Brdo, Ghoradzivac and other places. I visited these places on official business whislt working for EULEX Police, and trust me, the locals were not very positive regarding the attitude of the local albanians towards them. Time to get real please.
"I personally don't know if Serbia is interested in keeping Presheva, but your comment assumes that Serbia and "Kosovo" have the same status, while it is far from it. Most countries haven't recognized self-proclaimed Kosovo state."
-------------------------
It makes absolutely ZERO difference how many countries have recognized Kosovo. The reality in the ground is this, Belgrade does not run Kosovo. It wants to run it, or rather have a say in it. To achieve this objective it'll have to talk to the people who live there and who essentially want nothing to do with Belgrade. So, that half of Africa does not acknowledge Kosovo's statehood makes no difference whatsoever. Serbia doesn't recognize it either (in theory, in practice it has), but it still needs to talk to them and as such, ACKNOWLEDGE it
Serbs of the North do not want to be integrated into the government of Prishtina. Fine. There are also Albanians in Presheva who most likely would like to join their bretheren in Kosovo. So land swap. As for reaching a compromise solution for the WHOLE of Kosovo, that day has gone for at least 2 or 3 generations.
(adriatik, 20 October 2011 17:19)
I personally don't know if Serbia is interested in keeping Presheva, but your comment assumes that Serbia and "Kosovo" have the same status, while it is far from it. Most countries haven't recognized self-proclaimed Kosovo state.
How many casualities so far?
I am wondering whether Serbian troops would have removed roadblocks by Kosovo Albanians in the same sensible manner in the 1990es.
(Tinka, 20 October 2011 12:07)
Kosovo Albanians more than anybody else practiced tactics of placing their women and children in crossfire, so it was difficult to avoid casualties when dealing with them
Plus perhaps I am ready to believe that KFOR is more qualified and better equipped than YU troops.
But still qualified and equipped occupant and aggressor (KFOR that is) nevertheless the aggressor.
So talk about what? Do you think a compromize is possible? Let's see, the Albanians want nothing short of independence, the Serbs will not even contemplate it.
(adriatik, 20 October 2011 17:19)
To talk about KFOR and Albanian police leaving Kosovo North.
Reading the very different reality that exist for Kosovo "Serbian reality" and "Albanian reality",one thing to do is to write the story of Balkan by group of storians composed by members of third parties. This is important to calm the spirit of the people by both sides, but not the solution.As Albanian I think that elite of Serbia gradualy shoud direct the Serbian nation versus the reality that exist know in Kosova and that is acepted from all ex Yugoslavs states and from 22 members of EU.The Albanians must be patient, cause true or not the Serbs realy belive that Kosova is the Jerusalem of Serbia and is realy difficult for them to acept the reality in the ground.One thing is sure that peace is profitable for both sides and war has no winer.
adriatik you rather defeated your own point. You outlined that there are indeed things to talk about at the same time say there is no point talking.
Usually when there is completely diagreement about something the best solution is to talk, if not one or both parties can get violent. I don't believe that violence is the best way to go about things.
I watch this conflict with hands covering my eyes. In this day and age is what we see at the checkpoints the best we can hope for? Really expected more from the internationals.
(bganon, 20 October 2011 19:45)
Dear Mr. Bganon,
How would Beograd have handled the present situation. Should the Internationals be held to a higher standard than Beograd. After all, it is Beograd that is clamoring to be admitted to the EU, with that must come a higher standard of behavior. Is beograd up to the task. I believe it is you that has defeated your own point.
It is sad to see the some Serbs in this forum are advocating a solution of either all or nothing. Whoever places itself in a such position it is bound for a terrible loss. What is happening in North Kosovo is almost as identical as to the events that lead to a mass exodus of Serbs in Krajina.
(Gjakove, 20 October 2011 19:37)
--
Looks like you are mistaken. Who is advocating an all or nothing solution? Certainly not the Serbs. Who is attempting to control all of KiM against the wishes of Serbs there?
Now, you are right though as those taking such a position are bound for a terrible loss.
Also, another thing to keep in mind. Drunken Yeltsin is long gone. We aren't living in the 90s anymore.
If I didn't know any better Zoran, I'd say ou were inciting war.
(adriatik, 20 October 2011 17:26)
--
Who am I to incite war? Do you think I'm the president of Serbia or something? Now look at your neighbours and tell me, who really likes you? When NATO leaves, tell me, who do you have to protect you?
Like I said, if you give up on negotiations that could potentially bring lasting peace to the region, you run the risk of losing everything if your protector loses interest/funds. Just remind me, what is the financial situation of your protector? Anything to brag about?
You see, this "global" financial crisis is a myth because once again the West has kidnapped the term "global". There is no such thing in China, India, South America, Africa and so on. It is in fact a Western financial crisis. You know, the people there you can hide behind for however long they can afford it.
When they leave you are faced with some very angry people. That is the reality and you guys, including your leaders, are the ones that incited it.
"There are also Albanians in Presheva who most likely would like to join their bretheren in Kosovo."
adriatik
The albanians in Presevo don't have anything to fear by the surrounding serb majority unlike the serbs in Kosovo. However, no one would be happier then me if albs and serbs part once and for all. The problem is that you albs live on Serbian soil. So a landswap is not possible. Its like giving yourself something that is already yours. Just because albanians have 10 children per family and now form a majority in Kosovo doesn't give you the right to someone elses territorry. I do hope there is a final solution so that we never ever have to see eachother again. A future with theives, murderers and arsonists is out of the question.
adriatik you rather defeated your own point. You outlined that there are indeed things to talk about at the same time say there is no point talking.
Usually when there is completely diagreement about something the best solution is to talk, if not one or both parties can get violent. I don't believe that violence is the best way to go about things.
I watch this conflict with hands covering my eyes. In this day and age is what we see at the checkpoints the best we can hope for? Really expected more from the internationals.
"A future with theives, murderers and arsonists is out of the question."
I agree, which is why Kosovar Albanians want nothing to do with Serbia.
@Zoran
Let me get this straight. There's a financial crisis in the West and this is somehow going to aid the Orthodox Brotherhood in the Balkans? Do you know there's a financial crisis in Greece (art of your alliance apparently). Do you know that Turkey and Albania have a defense agreement? You really need to stop reading fairy tales.
Ok, remove the barricades, then its time to dig upp some large holes in the roads with portable winched down bridges made of timber or something, no need for anything fancy, what are you going to do then? Rebuild all roads in Northern Kosovo?
(Srboslav, 20 October 2011 17:33)
We have already rebuilt our roads and houses in Kosova after your army left, so what's a few more roads up in the north.
Of course, easy for you to have the local Serbs digging holes and raising barricades so that you can have your little fun on line when their lives there remain miserable.
It is sad to see the some Serbs in this forum are advocating a solution of either all or nothing. Whoever places itself in a such position it is bound for a terrible loss. What is happening in North Kosovo is almost as identical as to the events that lead to a mass exodus of Serbs in Krajina. Gentlemen for those of you which are advocating a hard core solution I like to ask you: How will several lightly armed Serb civilians do against KSF in the event KFOR request their presence to pacify the situation? Please dont tell me that Serb army is coming to the resque because IT IS NOT.
Everyone knows that the Serbs do not wish to live under Prishtinas regime. However Kosovo is recognized as a state by some of the most powerful nations in the world and they will never allow a few dozen Serbs to set up mini control zones inside Kosovo.
Everything has a limit and endurance and Kosovo Serbs are testing the limit and endurance of KFOR troops to their dismal.
Learn from the past mistakes of Krjina & Bosnia. I refuse to believe that Serbs and Albanians can not reach a compromise. I think if both sides sat down and listen to each other a compromise can be reached.
Ok, remove the barricades, then its time to dig upp some large holes in the roads with portable winched down bridges made of timber or something, no need for anything fancy, what are you going to do then? Rebuild all roads in Northern Kosovo?
Denis-you suffer from a disease called Walter Mitty syndrome. You believe in a fantasy world that doesn't exist. Your views are myopic and don't really deserve response. Nevertheless you insist on coming to a Serbian site to spread your nonsense.
The KLA were and are the scum of the earth. From drug and human trafficking to organ harvesting, they were considered terrorists until NATO thought they could use them as spotters for their planes. Planes that bombed from a hundred miles away. Until NATO got involved your "heroes" were being given a lesson in counter insurgency warfare. Your war criminals managed to destroy 13 old rustbuckets that were way past their sell by date. Your spotters were useless. Ask NATO. They were livid.
I don't want to even begin on your "regular" army. A bunch of heroin pushers who had spent their lives ferrying heroin with donkeys over the mountains.
Your children were sold to westerners for a loaf of bread.
You have nothing to be proud of, you should bow your head in shame.
As far as I have heard the serbian military ran away from KLA fighters if the serbian army diden't have tanks and heavy arms in their desposial.
(Demi, 20 October 2011 16:50)
Well you heard wrong, son. Even most Albanians will admit that the KLA was waxed in every single engagement with the Serbs. The KLA provoked battles and then ran with their tails between their legs into the mountains, every time.
For those who say 'let's talk', what is there to talk about? Do you think a compromize is possible? Let's see, the Albanians want nothing short of independence, the Serbs will not even contemplate it. Neither side will budge as both sides have made it clear they wont be awayed from those lines. So talk about what? There were discussion held for over 3 years, they yielded nothing. Zilch. Nada. Serbs of the North do not want to be integrated into the government of Prishtina. Fine. There are also Albanians in Presheva who most likely would like to join their bretheren in Kosovo. So land swap. As for reaching a compromise solution for the WHOLE of Kosovo, that day has gone for at least 2 or 3 generations.
If I didn't know any better Zoran, I'd say ou were inciting war. Bjut fortunately I do know better and I still say you're inciting war. Albanian problem on Orthodox land? what does mean? how exaclty is that going to be solved by the Greeks, Montenegrons and the Macedonians? Is this some sort of pathetic rallying cry to battle? p.s. what about the orthodox Albanians who live in Albanian, are they part of the problem too?
Until the mutually asured destruction is not achieved between Kosovo and Serbia, of course there will be no peace.
(Denis, 20 October 2011 16:17)
--
And that is the path NATO and Albanians are leading to. You didn't want to live under Serbian rule and we accepted that. Now Serbians don't want to live under Albanian rule and you think that's wrong? We are the ones offering lasting negotiations and you guys are there attempting to force your rule.
The fact is, Serbians are not leaving and because of that fact, you have a lot to lose. This isn't going to be gun for gun, tank for tank. It is going to be FYROMians, Serbians, Montenegrins and Greeks ready to solve the Albanian problem on Orthodox land. When you throw away negotiations that is exactly what you will face. Not yet but coming soon.
For those who say 'let's talk', what is there to talk about? Do you think a compromize is possible? Let's see, the Albanians want nothing short of independence, the Serbs will not even contemplate it. Neither side will budge as both sides have made it clear they wont be awayed from those lines. So talk about what? There were discussion held for over 3 years, they yielded nothing. Zilch. Nada. Serbs of the North do not want to be integrated into the government of Prishtina. Fine. There are also Albanians in Presheva who most likely would like to join their bretheren in Kosovo. So land swap. As for reaching a compromise solution for the WHOLE of Kosovo, that day has gone for at least 2 or 3 generations.
(adriatik, 20 October 2011 17:19)
Although I disagree with your idea of a land swap, you can see that there is a way to talk. You just did. Serbs can do the same. That's how dialogue starts. It's just like buying a house or car. Each party comes with their demands and in the end there is an agreement. This isn't rocket science.
And why should albanian live in the same country as serbs when croatians and bosniak wich speak the same language as you don't want anything to do with you ??
(Demi, 20 October 2011 16:50)
--
So why are your NATO partners forcing that to happen? If Serbians in Croatia, Bosnia and KiM don't want to live with Albanians then why are they forcing it? Why are you trying to control the North of KiM where the majority Serbians want nothing to do with your kind?
As for KiM Albanians, their only protectors are NATO and when they fall we'll see those naked cowards running like they always have. They weren't brave enough to negotiate a lasting and fair compromise. They were playing tough guys hiding behind NATO.
(Zoran, 20 October 2011 13:45)
K-Alb were a minority that your state was suppose to protect and help and treat with respect. They did not have a regular army, guns, canons, tanks, airplanes, you did thus of course you had the upper hand, killing and murdering untrained guerilla fighters and/or civilians. Even with that, you never had your way with K-Alb, they always fought you to the bitter end.
NATO will leave one day, of course. After that there will be a gun for a gun, a cannon for a cannon, a tank for a tank. You will not roam free to kill and murder at will. Until the mutually asured destruction is not achieved between Kosovo and Serbia, of course there will be no peace.
Germans & Americans firing on our citizens in our holy land.
Typical & a disgrace.
This evil will not win and we will overcome it once again.
This land belongs to us and has never and will never be an independent piece of land, but rather an integral part of Serbia & our history.
It is time for Tadic to send some of our army to the barricades and fight fire with fire.
The Albanians don't want to talk. Kfor & NATO didn't want to talk the last few days. There is no real other solution now.
EULEX & NATO (KFOR) are clearly favouring the UDI & are not acting with neutrality. There is perfect freedom of movement in the North with the Serbians so they can stop covering up their lies with objectives of "freedom of movement" etc
This solves nothing and will only result in more barricades going up further down the road, they'll be wearing gas masks this time
(New Zealander, 20 October 2011 09:53)
Ooh but it has put a good question on Tadic's table.
http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/Aki/English/Security/Kosovo-Serbs-demand-withdrawal-of-EU-mission-return-of-Serb-forces_312556554100.html
Denis-you're funny. What killing are you talking about? All independent reports talk about casualties of a few thousand, most of those combatants. You really have to stop believing your own lies. Telling them time and again doesn't make them true. Trust me, you were treated with kid gloves.
Serbs was so tough yesterday. They even wanted to ''control'' kfor crodon passing trough the barrcades.
(Demi, 20 October 2011 13:13)
They are a heck of a lot tougher than the sissies in the KLA who provoked a war then ran away all while crying about abuse to NATO:)
(Englebert, 20 October 2011 14:48)
As far as I have heard the serbian military ran away from KLA fighters if the serbian army diden't have tanks and heavy arms in their desposial.
You must have got it twisted. It was the albanian unarmed civilians who cried for Nato when they got killed by serbian soldiers. Very tough soldiers attacking unarmed civilians when they lost battles against KLA.
Albanians diden't start the war in the balkans. And why should albanian live in the same country as serbs when croatians and bosniak wich speak the same language as you don't want anything to do with you ??
Looks like KFOR couldn't handle being embarrased by a bunch of locals for more than 24 hours and needed to either nut up or shut up. Well we've seen this before: KFOR removes barricades and Serbs erect new ones. So before all the little Albanian warriors here get a boner because "law and order" is being established and some sort of "Oluja" is coming, remember that Albanian authority doesn't exist up there and it never will :)
KFOR believes when it carries out ethnic cleansing, i.e. if it succeeds it expects all serbs (who do not want to live under the albanian king pins of crime) to 'leave' or 'flee', but of course not 'forced out' or 'ethnically cleansed'.
It's only a matter of time before KFOR kills someone and then the arrest warrants will come out. KFOR will squeal 'immunity' but there is no immunity from crimes against humanity. What is good for the Goose...
I'm not surprised by the big words here by the albanian commenters? So where is your glorious KLA? For once not doing their own dirty work because they'd be easily delt with as they were in the past before they had the backing of NATO.
No need to feel sorry for them, especially from your patronizing lol. If Slovenians can protect them self against the mighty Serbs, I am sure Kosovo will hold on
(oiu, 20 October 2011 11:32)
--
Wow, you have three non-Western/NATO participants with a deployment of a little over 300 and this makes you international? Like I mentioned, the West has kidnapped that term for their own needs. There is nothing international about it.
Slovenia vs. Serbia? Where did you get that from? It was Slovenia vs. Yugoslavia and since there wasn't a large minority in that republic it separated relatively peacefully. If memory serves me right, both the president and head of the army were both Croatians while the JNA soldiers killed were mainly Slovenians.
As for KiM Albanians, their only protectors are NATO and when they fall we'll see those naked cowards running like they always have. They weren't brave enough to negotiate a lasting and fair compromise. They were playing tough guys hiding behind NATO.
You have touched upon the point, Tinka. The overwhelming majority population does not want to see the ruthless gunmen of the outlaws ruling in Pristina roaming their municipalities - and do not want to see them at checkpoints of administative lines or elsewhere. May they be dressed in custom uniforms, special police gear or their old UCK-outfit. Make sense, doesn´t it? That´s what the protest is about.
And very odd that so-called peacekeepers are cracking down on the protest in support of the outlaws in Pristina. Anyway, it was not the decison of the poor soldiers - the usual suspects in NATO and EU decided that and are alongside once again with the last warlords holding office in the Balkans.
Tell KFOR that freedom of movement for the citizens means no customs posts between Kosovo and the rest of Serbia. All Serbian citizens are citizens in Kosovo.
KFOR should defend free movement of goods and people, and not allow any more attempts to introduce Albanian racistly motivated customs posts.
There is no way that the north of Kosovo is going to be ruled by Pristina. Time for a change of policy.
Attention Mr. Tadic! what is your plan now?? now that NATO / KFOR are HURTING your people. it is the time now to send the Serbian Army and defend the people. how long will you allow the "occupiers" hurt your people?? you are the current Serbian president. PLease act on this!!!!
@Kosovo is a reality, and rule of law will have to be implemented in the north of Kosovo as well
(bill, 20 October 2011 10:26) -
Rule of law? Do you mean what the outlaws in Pristina consider "rule" and "law"? You are not seroius, are you? "The Guardian" knows what NATO knows and what you are supposed to know: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/24/hashim-thaci-kosovo-organised-crime
How many casualities so far?
I am wondering whether Serbian troops would have removed roadblocks by Kosovo Albanians in the same sensible manner in the 1990es.
I am also wondering whether Kosovo Serbs would prefer to face Kosovo troops, rather than KFOR, on the other side of the barricades.
"What international forces? You mean Western/NATO forces right? The West attempts to kidnap the word "international" while Germany tries to kidnap the word "Europe" and the US attempts to kidnap "democracy". "
You are a tool Zoran, Seriously! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_Force
United Arab Emirates (1500 - now 0)
Ukraine (1,300 - now 135)
Russia (4,000? - now 0)
Sweden (1100 – now 60)
India (800 - now 0)
Austria (561 – now 472)
Bosnia and Herzegovina (550-750 - now 0)
Finland (395 - now 20)
Ireland (279 – now 12)
Switzerland (220 – now 220)
Argentina (200, now 0 - 2000 to present Hospital (ret) + Combat Engineer company)[9][10]
Georgia (182 - now 0)[11]
Morocco (158)
Armenia (70, now 53)
Mongolia (40 - now 0)
Azerbaijan (34 - now 0)[12]
Chile (? now 0)
Malaysia (? - now 0)
Philippines (? - now 0)
"I really feel sorry for Albanians who had the opportunity to negotiate a true and lasting compromise between our people but decided to take the other path. What a shame the opportunity is lost. Tell me, what are you going to do when NATO is removed from KiM?
(Zoran,"
No need to feel sorry for them, especially from your patronizing lol. If Slovenians can protect them self against the mighty Serbs, I am sure Kosovo will hold on
Compromising with insane criminal minds that are threatening your future for your kids every day, just will not happen lad.
Better go back and sponsor Dick&Carla, live that imaginary line till you can, once that dream is over, more reality is coming your way.
Zoran, I appreciate your committment and the strength you have in your beliefs. You clearly are passionate. I disagree with one of the passionat estatement syou made however,
""Serbs are on the front lines of an international resistance movement that will destroy NATO once and for all""
NATO is not going away. It will not be destroyed by this.
"Serbs are on the front lines of an international resistance movement that will destroy NATO once and for all."
Which resistance movement would that be? Please don't tell the Occupy (insert capital city here) is demanding that the border checkpoints are manned by ethnic Serbs?
The international forces are removing the trucks that Serbs parked in the middle of the road leading to the Brnjak crossing.
--
What international forces? You mean Western/NATO forces right? The West attempts to kidnap the word "international" while Germany tries to kidnap the word "Europe" and the US attempts to kidnap "democracy".
Anyway, back to the story. First we had the spark, then the flame and soon, fire. NATO is already stretched and it needs to be further stretched. Serbs are on the front lines of an international resistance movement that will destroy NATO once and for all. The empire is crumbling under its own greed.
I really feel sorry for Albanians who had the opportunity to negotiate a true and lasting compromise between our people but decided to take the other path. What a shame the opportunity is lost. Tell me, what are you going to do when NATO is removed from KiM?
The only oen's who will loose in this is Serbia, but that is maybe good, because it might open the serbian people's eyes that Kosovo is a reality, and rule of law will have to be implemented in the north of Kosovo as well. The serbs in northers Kosovo think they can do whatever they want They should stop listening to their criminal leaders who only benifit from smuggeling, drug trafficking, and other illegal actions, and not act as if they are the only one's in the world. Kosovo will take care of them as well, just like they did with the serbs living in the southern part, and don't forget that is more 60% of the serbian population living in Kosovo. There is no problem, and these people are doing fine. Belgrade has to see that, and should focus on that instead of pouring more oil into this fire by supporting their unrealitic demands.
A couple of landmines buried in the rubble of a barricade would keep KFOR well back. KFOR may kill a few Serbian civilians before they concede defeat, but they will be defeated of that there is no doubt.
LOL figures. Albanians cannot go and take care of the Serbs in Northern Kosovo by themselves so they need a outside military force to do it for them. What cowards. If Kosovo was such a independent country, could it not take care of that by themselves? No that's right because they are not a sovereign country, just a client state serving the temporary interests of the empire.
But just like Taiwan, Saddam and plenty of African dictators in the past, you too will be dumped when you no longer serve no purpose. That day may come sooner if Occupy Wall St. gets its way and the U.S. ceases to have its hand in every dispute.
Well done, KFOR. This is the only way to bring peace to northern citizens of KOsovo. Ordinary citizens in that part would not like to stand and freeze next to barricadesd to accomodate needs of some mega criminals and terrorists who appear to be sponsored by Belgrade. One may ask a queation is Serbia returning to the terror of the 1990s?
Well done, KFOR. This is the only way to bring peace to northern citizens of KOsovo. Ordinary citizens in that part would not like to stand and freeze next to barricadesd to accomodate needs of some mega criminals and terrorists who appear to be sponsored by Belgrade. One may ask a queation is Serbia returning to the terror of the 1990s?
LOL figures. Albanians cannot go and take care of the Serbs in Northern Kosovo by themselves so they need a outside military force to do it for them. What cowards. If Kosovo was such a independent country, could it not take care of that by themselves? No that's right because they are not a sovereign country, just a client state serving the temporary interests of the empire.
But just like Taiwan, Saddam and plenty of African dictators in the past, you too will be dumped when you no longer serve no purpose. That day may come sooner if Occupy Wall St. gets its way and the U.S. ceases to have its hand in every dispute.
A couple of landmines buried in the rubble of a barricade would keep KFOR well back. KFOR may kill a few Serbian civilians before they concede defeat, but they will be defeated of that there is no doubt.
"What international forces? You mean Western/NATO forces right? The West attempts to kidnap the word "international" while Germany tries to kidnap the word "Europe" and the US attempts to kidnap "democracy". "
You are a tool Zoran, Seriously! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_Force
United Arab Emirates (1500 - now 0)
Ukraine (1,300 - now 135)
Russia (4,000? - now 0)
Sweden (1100 – now 60)
India (800 - now 0)
Austria (561 – now 472)
Bosnia and Herzegovina (550-750 - now 0)
Finland (395 - now 20)
Ireland (279 – now 12)
Switzerland (220 – now 220)
Argentina (200, now 0 - 2000 to present Hospital (ret) + Combat Engineer company)[9][10]
Georgia (182 - now 0)[11]
Morocco (158)
Armenia (70, now 53)
Mongolia (40 - now 0)
Azerbaijan (34 - now 0)[12]
Chile (? now 0)
Malaysia (? - now 0)
Philippines (? - now 0)
"I really feel sorry for Albanians who had the opportunity to negotiate a true and lasting compromise between our people but decided to take the other path. What a shame the opportunity is lost. Tell me, what are you going to do when NATO is removed from KiM?
(Zoran,"
No need to feel sorry for them, especially from your patronizing lol. If Slovenians can protect them self against the mighty Serbs, I am sure Kosovo will hold on
Compromising with insane criminal minds that are threatening your future for your kids every day, just will not happen lad.
Better go back and sponsor Dick&Carla, live that imaginary line till you can, once that dream is over, more reality is coming your way.
The international forces are removing the trucks that Serbs parked in the middle of the road leading to the Brnjak crossing.
--
What international forces? You mean Western/NATO forces right? The West attempts to kidnap the word "international" while Germany tries to kidnap the word "Europe" and the US attempts to kidnap "democracy".
Anyway, back to the story. First we had the spark, then the flame and soon, fire. NATO is already stretched and it needs to be further stretched. Serbs are on the front lines of an international resistance movement that will destroy NATO once and for all. The empire is crumbling under its own greed.
I really feel sorry for Albanians who had the opportunity to negotiate a true and lasting compromise between our people but decided to take the other path. What a shame the opportunity is lost. Tell me, what are you going to do when NATO is removed from KiM?
And why should albanian live in the same country as serbs when croatians and bosniak wich speak the same language as you don't want anything to do with you ??
(Demi, 20 October 2011 16:50)
--
So why are your NATO partners forcing that to happen? If Serbians in Croatia, Bosnia and KiM don't want to live with Albanians then why are they forcing it? Why are you trying to control the North of KiM where the majority Serbians want nothing to do with your kind?
"Serbs are on the front lines of an international resistance movement that will destroy NATO once and for all."
Which resistance movement would that be? Please don't tell the Occupy (insert capital city here) is demanding that the border checkpoints are manned by ethnic Serbs?
No need to feel sorry for them, especially from your patronizing lol. If Slovenians can protect them self against the mighty Serbs, I am sure Kosovo will hold on
(oiu, 20 October 2011 11:32)
--
Wow, you have three non-Western/NATO participants with a deployment of a little over 300 and this makes you international? Like I mentioned, the West has kidnapped that term for their own needs. There is nothing international about it.
Slovenia vs. Serbia? Where did you get that from? It was Slovenia vs. Yugoslavia and since there wasn't a large minority in that republic it separated relatively peacefully. If memory serves me right, both the president and head of the army were both Croatians while the JNA soldiers killed were mainly Slovenians.
As for KiM Albanians, their only protectors are NATO and when they fall we'll see those naked cowards running like they always have. They weren't brave enough to negotiate a lasting and fair compromise. They were playing tough guys hiding behind NATO.
Until the mutually asured destruction is not achieved between Kosovo and Serbia, of course there will be no peace.
(Denis, 20 October 2011 16:17)
--
And that is the path NATO and Albanians are leading to. You didn't want to live under Serbian rule and we accepted that. Now Serbians don't want to live under Albanian rule and you think that's wrong? We are the ones offering lasting negotiations and you guys are there attempting to force your rule.
The fact is, Serbians are not leaving and because of that fact, you have a lot to lose. This isn't going to be gun for gun, tank for tank. It is going to be FYROMians, Serbians, Montenegrins and Greeks ready to solve the Albanian problem on Orthodox land. When you throw away negotiations that is exactly what you will face. Not yet but coming soon.
Denis-you suffer from a disease called Walter Mitty syndrome. You believe in a fantasy world that doesn't exist. Your views are myopic and don't really deserve response. Nevertheless you insist on coming to a Serbian site to spread your nonsense.
The KLA were and are the scum of the earth. From drug and human trafficking to organ harvesting, they were considered terrorists until NATO thought they could use them as spotters for their planes. Planes that bombed from a hundred miles away. Until NATO got involved your "heroes" were being given a lesson in counter insurgency warfare. Your war criminals managed to destroy 13 old rustbuckets that were way past their sell by date. Your spotters were useless. Ask NATO. They were livid.
I don't want to even begin on your "regular" army. A bunch of heroin pushers who had spent their lives ferrying heroin with donkeys over the mountains.
Your children were sold to westerners for a loaf of bread.
You have nothing to be proud of, you should bow your head in shame.
The only oen's who will loose in this is Serbia, but that is maybe good, because it might open the serbian people's eyes that Kosovo is a reality, and rule of law will have to be implemented in the north of Kosovo as well. The serbs in northers Kosovo think they can do whatever they want They should stop listening to their criminal leaders who only benifit from smuggeling, drug trafficking, and other illegal actions, and not act as if they are the only one's in the world. Kosovo will take care of them as well, just like they did with the serbs living in the southern part, and don't forget that is more 60% of the serbian population living in Kosovo. There is no problem, and these people are doing fine. Belgrade has to see that, and should focus on that instead of pouring more oil into this fire by supporting their unrealitic demands.
Attention Mr. Tadic! what is your plan now?? now that NATO / KFOR are HURTING your people. it is the time now to send the Serbian Army and defend the people. how long will you allow the "occupiers" hurt your people?? you are the current Serbian president. PLease act on this!!!!
@Kosovo is a reality, and rule of law will have to be implemented in the north of Kosovo as well
(bill, 20 October 2011 10:26) -
Rule of law? Do you mean what the outlaws in Pristina consider "rule" and "law"? You are not seroius, are you? "The Guardian" knows what NATO knows and what you are supposed to know: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/24/hashim-thaci-kosovo-organised-crime
Zoran, I appreciate your committment and the strength you have in your beliefs. You clearly are passionate. I disagree with one of the passionat estatement syou made however,
""Serbs are on the front lines of an international resistance movement that will destroy NATO once and for all""
NATO is not going away. It will not be destroyed by this.
Looks like KFOR couldn't handle being embarrased by a bunch of locals for more than 24 hours and needed to either nut up or shut up. Well we've seen this before: KFOR removes barricades and Serbs erect new ones. So before all the little Albanian warriors here get a boner because "law and order" is being established and some sort of "Oluja" is coming, remember that Albanian authority doesn't exist up there and it never will :)
Serbs was so tough yesterday. They even wanted to ''control'' kfor crodon passing trough the barrcades.
(Demi, 20 October 2011 13:13)
They are a heck of a lot tougher than the sissies in the KLA who provoked a war then ran away all while crying about abuse to NATO:)
(Englebert, 20 October 2011 14:48)
As far as I have heard the serbian military ran away from KLA fighters if the serbian army diden't have tanks and heavy arms in their desposial.
You must have got it twisted. It was the albanian unarmed civilians who cried for Nato when they got killed by serbian soldiers. Very tough soldiers attacking unarmed civilians when they lost battles against KLA.
Albanians diden't start the war in the balkans. And why should albanian live in the same country as serbs when croatians and bosniak wich speak the same language as you don't want anything to do with you ??
"There are also Albanians in Presheva who most likely would like to join their bretheren in Kosovo."
adriatik
The albanians in Presevo don't have anything to fear by the surrounding serb majority unlike the serbs in Kosovo. However, no one would be happier then me if albs and serbs part once and for all. The problem is that you albs live on Serbian soil. So a landswap is not possible. Its like giving yourself something that is already yours. Just because albanians have 10 children per family and now form a majority in Kosovo doesn't give you the right to someone elses territorry. I do hope there is a final solution so that we never ever have to see eachother again. A future with theives, murderers and arsonists is out of the question.
You have touched upon the point, Tinka. The overwhelming majority population does not want to see the ruthless gunmen of the outlaws ruling in Pristina roaming their municipalities - and do not want to see them at checkpoints of administative lines or elsewhere. May they be dressed in custom uniforms, special police gear or their old UCK-outfit. Make sense, doesn´t it? That´s what the protest is about.
And very odd that so-called peacekeepers are cracking down on the protest in support of the outlaws in Pristina. Anyway, it was not the decison of the poor soldiers - the usual suspects in NATO and EU decided that and are alongside once again with the last warlords holding office in the Balkans.
Tell KFOR that freedom of movement for the citizens means no customs posts between Kosovo and the rest of Serbia. All Serbian citizens are citizens in Kosovo.
KFOR should defend free movement of goods and people, and not allow any more attempts to introduce Albanian racistly motivated customs posts.
There is no way that the north of Kosovo is going to be ruled by Pristina. Time for a change of policy.
KFOR believes when it carries out ethnic cleansing, i.e. if it succeeds it expects all serbs (who do not want to live under the albanian king pins of crime) to 'leave' or 'flee', but of course not 'forced out' or 'ethnically cleansed'.
It's only a matter of time before KFOR kills someone and then the arrest warrants will come out. KFOR will squeal 'immunity' but there is no immunity from crimes against humanity. What is good for the Goose...
I'm not surprised by the big words here by the albanian commenters? So where is your glorious KLA? For once not doing their own dirty work because they'd be easily delt with as they were in the past before they had the backing of NATO.
Denis-you're funny. What killing are you talking about? All independent reports talk about casualties of a few thousand, most of those combatants. You really have to stop believing your own lies. Telling them time and again doesn't make them true. Trust me, you were treated with kid gloves.
As far as I have heard the serbian military ran away from KLA fighters if the serbian army diden't have tanks and heavy arms in their desposial.
(Demi, 20 October 2011 16:50)
Well you heard wrong, son. Even most Albanians will admit that the KLA was waxed in every single engagement with the Serbs. The KLA provoked battles and then ran with their tails between their legs into the mountains, every time.
If I didn't know any better Zoran, I'd say ou were inciting war.
(adriatik, 20 October 2011 17:26)
--
Who am I to incite war? Do you think I'm the president of Serbia or something? Now look at your neighbours and tell me, who really likes you? When NATO leaves, tell me, who do you have to protect you?
Like I said, if you give up on negotiations that could potentially bring lasting peace to the region, you run the risk of losing everything if your protector loses interest/funds. Just remind me, what is the financial situation of your protector? Anything to brag about?
You see, this "global" financial crisis is a myth because once again the West has kidnapped the term "global". There is no such thing in China, India, South America, Africa and so on. It is in fact a Western financial crisis. You know, the people there you can hide behind for however long they can afford it.
When they leave you are faced with some very angry people. That is the reality and you guys, including your leaders, are the ones that incited it.
Germans & Americans firing on our citizens in our holy land.
Typical & a disgrace.
This evil will not win and we will overcome it once again.
This land belongs to us and has never and will never be an independent piece of land, but rather an integral part of Serbia & our history.
It is time for Tadic to send some of our army to the barricades and fight fire with fire.
The Albanians don't want to talk. Kfor & NATO didn't want to talk the last few days. There is no real other solution now.
EULEX & NATO (KFOR) are clearly favouring the UDI & are not acting with neutrality. There is perfect freedom of movement in the North with the Serbians so they can stop covering up their lies with objectives of "freedom of movement" etc
It is sad to see the some Serbs in this forum are advocating a solution of either all or nothing. Whoever places itself in a such position it is bound for a terrible loss. What is happening in North Kosovo is almost as identical as to the events that lead to a mass exodus of Serbs in Krajina. Gentlemen for those of you which are advocating a hard core solution I like to ask you: How will several lightly armed Serb civilians do against KSF in the event KFOR request their presence to pacify the situation? Please dont tell me that Serb army is coming to the resque because IT IS NOT.
Everyone knows that the Serbs do not wish to live under Prishtinas regime. However Kosovo is recognized as a state by some of the most powerful nations in the world and they will never allow a few dozen Serbs to set up mini control zones inside Kosovo.
Everything has a limit and endurance and Kosovo Serbs are testing the limit and endurance of KFOR troops to their dismal.
Learn from the past mistakes of Krjina & Bosnia. I refuse to believe that Serbs and Albanians can not reach a compromise. I think if both sides sat down and listen to each other a compromise can be reached.
For those who say 'let's talk', what is there to talk about? Do you think a compromize is possible? Let's see, the Albanians want nothing short of independence, the Serbs will not even contemplate it. Neither side will budge as both sides have made it clear they wont be awayed from those lines. So talk about what? There were discussion held for over 3 years, they yielded nothing. Zilch. Nada. Serbs of the North do not want to be integrated into the government of Prishtina. Fine. There are also Albanians in Presheva who most likely would like to join their bretheren in Kosovo. So land swap. As for reaching a compromise solution for the WHOLE of Kosovo, that day has gone for at least 2 or 3 generations.
(adriatik, 20 October 2011 17:19)
Although I disagree with your idea of a land swap, you can see that there is a way to talk. You just did. Serbs can do the same. That's how dialogue starts. It's just like buying a house or car. Each party comes with their demands and in the end there is an agreement. This isn't rocket science.
How many casualities so far?
I am wondering whether Serbian troops would have removed roadblocks by Kosovo Albanians in the same sensible manner in the 1990es.
I am also wondering whether Kosovo Serbs would prefer to face Kosovo troops, rather than KFOR, on the other side of the barricades.
As for KiM Albanians, their only protectors are NATO and when they fall we'll see those naked cowards running like they always have. They weren't brave enough to negotiate a lasting and fair compromise. They were playing tough guys hiding behind NATO.
(Zoran, 20 October 2011 13:45)
K-Alb were a minority that your state was suppose to protect and help and treat with respect. They did not have a regular army, guns, canons, tanks, airplanes, you did thus of course you had the upper hand, killing and murdering untrained guerilla fighters and/or civilians. Even with that, you never had your way with K-Alb, they always fought you to the bitter end.
NATO will leave one day, of course. After that there will be a gun for a gun, a cannon for a cannon, a tank for a tank. You will not roam free to kill and murder at will. Until the mutually asured destruction is not achieved between Kosovo and Serbia, of course there will be no peace.
For those who say 'let's talk', what is there to talk about? Do you think a compromize is possible? Let's see, the Albanians want nothing short of independence, the Serbs will not even contemplate it. Neither side will budge as both sides have made it clear they wont be awayed from those lines. So talk about what? There were discussion held for over 3 years, they yielded nothing. Zilch. Nada. Serbs of the North do not want to be integrated into the government of Prishtina. Fine. There are also Albanians in Presheva who most likely would like to join their bretheren in Kosovo. So land swap. As for reaching a compromise solution for the WHOLE of Kosovo, that day has gone for at least 2 or 3 generations.
Ok, remove the barricades, then its time to dig upp some large holes in the roads with portable winched down bridges made of timber or something, no need for anything fancy, what are you going to do then? Rebuild all roads in Northern Kosovo?
(Srboslav, 20 October 2011 17:33)
We have already rebuilt our roads and houses in Kosova after your army left, so what's a few more roads up in the north.
Of course, easy for you to have the local Serbs digging holes and raising barricades so that you can have your little fun on line when their lives there remain miserable.
adriatik you rather defeated your own point. You outlined that there are indeed things to talk about at the same time say there is no point talking.
Usually when there is completely diagreement about something the best solution is to talk, if not one or both parties can get violent. I don't believe that violence is the best way to go about things.
I watch this conflict with hands covering my eyes. In this day and age is what we see at the checkpoints the best we can hope for? Really expected more from the internationals.
(bganon, 20 October 2011 19:45)
Dear Mr. Bganon,
How would Beograd have handled the present situation. Should the Internationals be held to a higher standard than Beograd. After all, it is Beograd that is clamoring to be admitted to the EU, with that must come a higher standard of behavior. Is beograd up to the task. I believe it is you that has defeated your own point.
Ok, remove the barricades, then its time to dig upp some large holes in the roads with portable winched down bridges made of timber or something, no need for anything fancy, what are you going to do then? Rebuild all roads in Northern Kosovo?
adriatik you rather defeated your own point. You outlined that there are indeed things to talk about at the same time say there is no point talking.
Usually when there is completely diagreement about something the best solution is to talk, if not one or both parties can get violent. I don't believe that violence is the best way to go about things.
I watch this conflict with hands covering my eyes. In this day and age is what we see at the checkpoints the best we can hope for? Really expected more from the internationals.
Serbs of the North do not want to be integrated into the government of Prishtina. Fine. There are also Albanians in Presheva who most likely would like to join their bretheren in Kosovo. So land swap. As for reaching a compromise solution for the WHOLE of Kosovo, that day has gone for at least 2 or 3 generations.
(adriatik, 20 October 2011 17:19)
I personally don't know if Serbia is interested in keeping Presheva, but your comment assumes that Serbia and "Kosovo" have the same status, while it is far from it. Most countries haven't recognized self-proclaimed Kosovo state.
Reading the very different reality that exist for Kosovo "Serbian reality" and "Albanian reality",one thing to do is to write the story of Balkan by group of storians composed by members of third parties. This is important to calm the spirit of the people by both sides, but not the solution.As Albanian I think that elite of Serbia gradualy shoud direct the Serbian nation versus the reality that exist know in Kosova and that is acepted from all ex Yugoslavs states and from 22 members of EU.The Albanians must be patient, cause true or not the Serbs realy belive that Kosova is the Jerusalem of Serbia and is realy difficult for them to acept the reality in the ground.One thing is sure that peace is profitable for both sides and war has no winer.
So talk about what? Do you think a compromize is possible? Let's see, the Albanians want nothing short of independence, the Serbs will not even contemplate it.
(adriatik, 20 October 2011 17:19)
To talk about KFOR and Albanian police leaving Kosovo North.
This solves nothing and will only result in more barricades going up further down the road, they'll be wearing gas masks this time
(New Zealander, 20 October 2011 09:53)
Ooh but it has put a good question on Tadic's table.
http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/Aki/English/Security/Kosovo-Serbs-demand-withdrawal-of-EU-mission-return-of-Serb-forces_312556554100.html
If I didn't know any better Zoran, I'd say ou were inciting war. Bjut fortunately I do know better and I still say you're inciting war. Albanian problem on Orthodox land? what does mean? how exaclty is that going to be solved by the Greeks, Montenegrons and the Macedonians? Is this some sort of pathetic rallying cry to battle? p.s. what about the orthodox Albanians who live in Albanian, are they part of the problem too?
How many casualities so far?
I am wondering whether Serbian troops would have removed roadblocks by Kosovo Albanians in the same sensible manner in the 1990es.
(Tinka, 20 October 2011 12:07)
Kosovo Albanians more than anybody else practiced tactics of placing their women and children in crossfire, so it was difficult to avoid casualties when dealing with them
Plus perhaps I am ready to believe that KFOR is more qualified and better equipped than YU troops.
But still qualified and equipped occupant and aggressor (KFOR that is) nevertheless the aggressor.
"There are also Albanians in Presheva who most likely would like to join their bretheren in Kosovo."
adriatik
The albanians in Presevo don't have anything to fear by the surrounding serb majority unlike the serbs in Kosovo. However, no one would be happier then me if albs and serbs part once and for all. The problem is that you albs live on Serbian soil. So a landswap is not possible. Its like giving yourself something that is already yours. Just because albanians have 10 children per family and now form a majority in Kosovo doesn't give you the right to someone elses territorry. I do hope there is a final solution so that we never ever have to see eachother again. A future with theives, murderers and arsonists is out of the question.
(MikeC, 20 October 2011 19:05)
Mike I have no idea what you are talking about maybe in past few families had 10 children and this was in titos time but I do not know many families that have more than 3 children today 4 max.
In rural areas maybe still some reach 5 or 6 but that's normal when you work in field you need many hands its like htis most places in the world.
the idea of albanians having 10 kids comes from Titos time where he said who ever has 10Children he would become Godfather to that chield and some Albanian families did reach 10 children and it was all over the news.
On the other hand so could Serbian ones, Also Slobo did put same thing and it was for 3 children and you get 2 years off for Maternity leave paid. Albanians took advantage of that but sou could Serbs. the think that really hurt Serbs was that they did not count on Albaninas sendin Kids abroad they thought this will hurt them by lowering the number they did not count on Albanians saving money and buying land and sending most of Money home.
I come from a family of 4 = 2 boys and 2 girls we are all educated in USA, Austria but what issue do you have with us Albanians having more kids I think we are contributing to our country and this world in a productive way so I wish my parents had few more so more good would come in this world :)
It is sad to see the some Serbs in this forum are advocating a solution of either all or nothing. Whoever places itself in a such position it is bound for a terrible loss. What is happening in North Kosovo is almost as identical as to the events that lead to a mass exodus of Serbs in Krajina.
(Gjakove, 20 October 2011 19:37)
--
Looks like you are mistaken. Who is advocating an all or nothing solution? Certainly not the Serbs. Who is attempting to control all of KiM against the wishes of Serbs there?
Now, you are right though as those taking such a position are bound for a terrible loss.
Also, another thing to keep in mind. Drunken Yeltsin is long gone. We aren't living in the 90s anymore.
"A future with theives, murderers and arsonists is out of the question."
I agree, which is why Kosovar Albanians want nothing to do with Serbia.
@Zoran
Let me get this straight. There's a financial crisis in the West and this is somehow going to aid the Orthodox Brotherhood in the Balkans? Do you know there's a financial crisis in Greece (art of your alliance apparently). Do you know that Turkey and Albania have a defense agreement? You really need to stop reading fairy tales.
However Kosovo is recognized as a state by some of the most powerful nations in the world and they will never allow a few dozen Serbs to set up mini control zones inside Kosovo.
I think if both sides sat down and listen to each other a compromise can be reached.
(Gjakove, 20 October 2011 19:37)
Why not a few dozen Serbs to set up mini control zones inside Kosovo? Isn't it a good compromise?
Do you know that Turkey and Albania have a defense agreement?
(adriatik, 20 October 2011 19:59)
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LOL! I do now! Turkey looks to be in a bit of a bother also. Which of its neighbours actually likes Turkey? Looks like Turkey and Albania will be in the same boat soon. I suppose that's the problem of being too far east and a member of NATO.
Bill, what planet are you on, and I quote you "Kosovo will take care of them as well, just like they did with the serbs living in the southern part2, how ironic that you make this statement at a time when Serbian returnees are attacked and one person was killed, (police are looking for 1 Albanian suspect).I have visted the places villages inhabited by Serbians living in Novo Brdo, Ghoradzivac and other places. I visited these places on official business whislt working for EULEX Police, and trust me, the locals were not very positive regarding the attitude of the local albanians towards them. Time to get real please.
My impression of you is that you have an image of what Serbia should be. Allow me to tell, it'll never happen. What you can do is dream about it, as you blatenly are
"I personally don't know if Serbia is interested in keeping Presheva, but your comment assumes that Serbia and "Kosovo" have the same status, while it is far from it. Most countries haven't recognized self-proclaimed Kosovo state."
-------------------------
It makes absolutely ZERO difference how many countries have recognized Kosovo. The reality in the ground is this, Belgrade does not run Kosovo. It wants to run it, or rather have a say in it. To achieve this objective it'll have to talk to the people who live there and who essentially want nothing to do with Belgrade. So, that half of Africa does not acknowledge Kosovo's statehood makes no difference whatsoever. Serbia doesn't recognize it either (in theory, in practice it has), but it still needs to talk to them and as such, ACKNOWLEDGE it
Do people understand interconnected economies. You think this financial crisis that the West is experiencing now wont have ramifications in China? Even if doesn't, you people seriously believe a union between the Orthodox Balkans will ever happen? Lets Greece has designs on Macedonia, as does Bulgaria and they're both Orthodox. Honestly you people are still stuck in the Ottoman Empire mode. Turkey, for all its faults, is a far stronger country, both economically and militarily than Greece. Both are part of NATO, currently the strongest military alliance in the world. Stop reading the Orthodox gazette because it has filled your heads with unrealistic scenarios
I have read countless conspiracy theories, but the ones here are the best. The Orthodox Brotherhood is apparently starting and its first line of fire are the Albanians. How are you going to deal with them, murder? Without even getting to this fantasy, how is this union (it'll NEVER happen) going to make Catholic Croatia feel? Serbs on these forums still talk about ''reclaiming'' Krajina. How will NATO react to a growth in Russian influence in the Balkans? How will the EU react to it? Honestly, I do not know what you people are reading, but whatever it is, it has played tricks with your heads and managed to brainwash you beyond even the powers of Jesus.
I have read you say warlord this warlord that countless times. Allow me to tell you why these 'warlords' exist. from 1989 to 1997, most Albanians had never even heard of the KLA and pursued a policy of passive resistance. it got them nowhere. bullets and blood sadly, managed to the attention of the Serbs first of all and then the world. so Serbian policies DIRECTLY led to the creation of these 'warlords'. as for thaci, i have told you before, if as you say there is enough evidence to convict him, let Hague indict him already, put forth the proof and have him sent to prison where he belongs. however, do not confuse every single KLA member for a 'warlord'. remember, kosovar's wanted talks before 1999, they were pushed aside.
Srboljub
Yes, the voices of moderates was not so loud when there was an army in 1997/98. allow me to tell you why serbs now want talks, because they lost the war. that's it. what Serbia wants is to change Kosovo's borders along ethnic lines. fine, however, there are Albanians inside Serbia proper who also make the majority that would like join with Kosovo. so yes let us swap ladns mutually, shake hands and sign a deal. do not make it sound though as if its only the strongheadness of the Albanians that is in the way
kosovo serbs they are been played by Serb political parties from Belgrade and in the end kosovo serbs will be left on they on , kosovo is a whole, borders will not change deal with it .
I can`t beleive serbs asked for people to control KFOR and let them through , who do they think they are ?
The entire EU is in financial crises, mate and not just Greece. Read the papers where S&Ps have threatened to downgrade France. The west is so far in dodo that it needs a ladder to see the gutter.
“Do you know that Turkey and Albania have a defense agreement?”
This is a priceless statement – Turkey and Albania have a defence agreement. Yeah so what? One impoverished country trying to defend another – hello is there any logic in your brain. Turkey can’t control the Kurds let alone help Albania.
Then again why would they need a defence agreement when they are now in NATO?????
The financial crises in the west is benefiting the Orthodox Brotherhood as it is brining forward something that would have taken 30 years to achieve. The only western countries not on the watch list are Germany, Canada and Australia – that’s it baby. The US is currently 47 trillion dollars up the proverbial creek and this one was even mentioned recently in the US on Fox of all TV channels.
You really need to stop reading fairytales as this financial crises is far more dangerous than anything so far in western histrory.
Out of the question, these borders were not drawn by Albanians, it was drwan by the jugoslavs, Kosova's borders will remain intact and looks like KFOR will make sure Kosova's territorial integrity is respected.
(Skifteri, 21 October 2011 00:20)
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You are correct, the borders of KiM will not change and while the Yugoslavs were drawing those borders, KiM was delegated a province of Serbia. Now that will not change. The West in the Balkans will be history soon enough so no need to convince anyone.
They weren't brave enough to negotiate a lasting and fair compromise. They were playing tough guys hiding behind NATO.
(Zoran, 20 October 2011 13:45)
Zoran,
Had you spread these lies 20 years ago, you would probably impress someone as at that time not all people had access to information that would prove you lie. However, doing these things in the eleventh year of 21st century is more than preposterous as all of us now have access to the same information you do.
Allow me to tell you that was no fair and lasting compromise that would satisfy you Serbs even if we Albanians agreed to one. Never in two years of negotiations from 2005 until 2007, Serbian delegation had opened the details of that plan called more than autonomy less than independence. They had never agreed to serious negotiations. While in one of Viena meetings they offered Kosovo to be demilitarized zone, in another they requested the Serbian military be allowed to return to Kosovo.
Furthermore your constitution that was approved in the end of 2006 (during negotiations where Kosovo Albanians were not eligible to participate - although at least declaratively you consider them your citizens) say that the only organ competent to ensure the autonomy for Kosovo is Serbian Parlament. This means that any agreed solution in negotiations will be prone to sole interpretation of Serbian Parlament, practically will mean what you say it means without taking in consideration the legitim rights and concerns of majority of Kosovo's population. With this paragraph Serbia has withdrew the already unserious offer to Kosovo Albanians.
Let me remind you that the fact that we Albanians live in Kosovo does not mean that we live in your land. Serbia has occupied Kosovo in 1912 while Albanians in Kosovo lived centuries ago before that year.
And bravety is to fight these your objectives and cowardice is to accept this "solution" and not vice versus.
According to you, these barricades were erected because Thaci is under suspicion of of the most horrendous crimes and he is wanting to establish his law and order there. nonsense. this has NOTHING to do with Thaci. if i follow your logic, should a LDK Albanian become Prime Minister (LDK had nothing to do with the KLA) the barricades will be removed. Utter rubbish. the barricades are there because the North does not want to recognize the authority of Prishtina, be they KLA, LDK or Buddhists. They have called for the removal of ETHNIC Albanians from the border post. that is self explanatory. what they want, is Belgrade to take control. this has nothing to do with Thaci being under suspicion for war crimes. i'm afraid it is an ethnic issue sadly. you can deny it till kingdom come, it wont make it any less true.
as for the radicalization of albanians, in all movements you have factions. 8 years albanians pursued passive resistance. 8 years they were ignored. they were stripped of most rights, kicked out of universities and a period of police state followed. in 1997, when at the initiation of the Vatican, an agreement was reached for Kosovar Albanian students to have access to university buildings the first signs of dissent showed. students were beaten for demanding the implementation of the agreement. they did not erect barricades, they actually just walked en masse to the city centre. i was there. that only radicalized albanians further. when finally the deal was carried out, all uni buildings had their windows smashed, walls vandalized and tables broken. this was done, not by the police sadly, but by ordinary Serb students who had taken over to try and stop the deal from going through. no my friend, it wasn't that the albanians were hungry for war. after all, what army could face the arsenal of Serbia, which, included tanks, planes, APC's and the rest? Serbia's own policies gave the KLA the impetus.
John Massey there is a difference, you have attempted to defeat my point, I have not contradicted myself. You are implying that Belgrade should held to a higher standard than Pristina.
I am saying that the internationals don't have an emotional stake in the Kosovo 'conflict'. For that reason and for the fact that they talk of human rights they should be held to that higher standard.
Riot troops and tear gas are usually deployed against rioters / terrorists. This is as much an embarassment for the internationals to behave like this as anything else.
I think the history of Tsar Dushan has gone to your head. This is what your telling me, The Greeks will join in a union with the Macedonians (ahem) to resolve the Albanian 'problem' once and for all. Greek & Macedonians together? Let us not stop there however. Greece being a NATO member and Albania being a NATO member and will be at war apparently. Gee dude, if this is EVER to happen, it's not going to occur for at least another 200 years. You know what, Greece had the power (in theory) to stop the bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999. If it so cherished its Orthodox brother, you'd have to ask, why didn't it stop it? You seriously have let the glory years of Dushan get your head. Let it go, seriously.
As far as I have heard the serbian military ran away from KLA fighters if the serbian army diden't have tanks and heavy arms in their desposial.
(Demi, 20 October 2011 16:50)
LOL where'd you read that? The Onion or New Kosova Report? :)
I personally don't know if Serbia is interested in keeping Presheva, but your comment assumes that Serbia and "Kosovo" have the same status, while it is far from it. Most countries haven't recognized self-proclaimed Kosovo state.
(aaayyy, 20 October 2011 21:49)
Most countries have not recognized Kosovo as part of Serbia either. In any case, that's irrelevant. Whatever the status of Kosovo it does not change the fact that Serbia and Kosovo can swap territories, if they so agree.
Of course it's good to talk. I am all for a compromise solution. It will be better for everyone in the long run. It may be hard to believe but I want a better life for all the people of the region, some more so than others admittedly. The serbs have been trying to talk, understand that things will never be like before, and the Albanians have their legitimate requirements. But every time we start getting somewhere Thaci starts talking tough. This guy just shouldn't be in politics. He served his purpose and should now either be sent to the Hague or put out to pasture. Speaking for myself, I would be happy if Serbia kept the North and control of its holy sites. The Albanians will get almost everything they wanted anyway. It is the Albs who are all or nothing. Serbia has been trying to get out of this with at least some dignity for ages. If the Albs feel Serbs don't deserve any dignity in Kosovo, then accept it as some sort of noblesse oblige. Show us how to treat people then. Albs- speak to your representatives and tell em to cut a deal.
This is what your telling me, The Greeks will join in a union with the Macedonians (ahem) to resolve the Albanian 'problem' once and for all. Greek & Macedonians together?
(adriatik, 21 October 2011 00:22)
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LOL! I like your style, make up a story and then disprove it.
In fact, in all likelihood, FYROM will probably form another union with Serbia along with Montenegro and BiH.
The West has overstretched its influence and it will have to retreat. I really can't see it going beyond Croatia, Hungary, Slovakia and Poland. Even holding onto some of those will be difficult when prosperity faces East.
Adriatik- the chaos many envisaged by the UDI is close to happening. Because you wish to change the borders without negotiation, now you suggest all these different interests and changes. Rs and Krajina to Serbia, Presevo to Albania, Istria to Italy, Vojvodina to Hungary etc. Lets just all declare independence why dont we. Congratulations, the pandoras box has been totally opened. And yes, we lost the battle, the war is a different matter. No shame in losing to the most powerful killing machine in history though.
The financial crises in the west is benefiting the Orthodox Brotherhood as it is brining forward something that would have taken 30 years to achieve. The only western countries not on the watch list are Germany, Canada and Australia – that’s it baby. The US is currently 47 trillion dollars up the proverbial creek and this one was even mentioned recently in the US on Fox of all TV channels.
You really need to stop reading fairytales as this financial crises is far more dangerous than anything so far in western histrory.
(sj, 21 October 2011 03:24)
SJ
Your comments are full of decorations and beautifications with intelectual terminology, but they lack two main elements which are: logic and common sense.
Even if I take that your comment about EU and US are in brink of financial collapse and the future is in Russia and China is true, did you consider your personal future in those two countries? I mean if I were you and if convinced on sincerity of my comments, I would move my savings to one of those two countries that I considered prosperous and go to live over there. Only when I put my foot either in China or Russia, then I would post comments like this advising people to stop reading fairytales and do what I did.
Otherwise, since 2007 your comments were mostly similar, while you keep contradicting yourself over and over and not being honest. Are you stupid? Of course not, you just have not been honest in your comment. Otherwise, if you were convinced that what you say will happen, you would do exactly what I said above.
Do people understand interconnected economies. You think this financial crisis that the West is experiencing now wont have ramifications in China?
(adriatik, 21 October 2011 10:37)
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You are a funny fellow. The Western economic crisis has been around for a few years and yet China's economy continues to grow at 10% each year. India, Brazil and others are not too far behind either. The reason? Well, they are relying more and more on their local economies. There are about a billion people in the West whereas China has 1.3 billion and India following closely with 1.2. They have a cheap and efficient labour force and this next cycle will be a long and prosperous one for anyone aligned with the BRICs.
Yes, this is about cycles my friend and the cycle of Western dominance has almost ended. As usual, Albanians choose the wrong side at the wrong time, as history has shown time and again. Just wait and see.
Adriatik-passive resistance to what? Nothing, that's what. They just didn't start violently agitiating for trouble until later. Just your common garden variety troublemakers Im afraid with a cause. Irridentists and separatists. Macedonia next up would be my guess.
I personally don't know if Serbia is interested in keeping Presheva, but your comment assumes that Serbia and "Kosovo" have the same status, while it is far from it. Most countries haven't recognized self-proclaimed Kosovo state.
(aaayyy, 20 October 2011 21:49)
Most countries have not recognized Kosovo as part of Serbia either. In any case, that's irrelevant. Whatever the status of Kosovo it does not change the fact that Serbia and Kosovo can swap territories, if they so agree.
(icj1, 21 October 2011 03:41)
What do you mean by "Most countries have not recognized Kosovo as part of Serbia"? The countries which haven't said anything, recognized Kosovo as part of Serbia by defaulf. Do you know what "by default" means?
If a region declared its independence, the silence from the other countries means they didn't recognize it. To make it easier for you to understand, say, I declared independence of a site around my country house an independent state and, can you imagine, no country has said so far it hasn't recognized it. Does it mean that the whole world recognized my newly created state? Options for you to answer:
To talk about KFOR and Albanian police leaving Kosovo North.
(aaayyy, 20 October 2011 21:55)
_____________________
Out of the question, these borders were not drawn by Albanians, it was drwan by the jugoslavs, Kosova's borders will remain intact and looks like KFOR will make sure Kosova's territorial integrity is respected.
Its not the Albanians the serbs need to convince for land swap, its the west.
Since they (west) have ruled out exchange of territoty than there is nothing K-serbs can do but watch KFOR extend Kosova's rule to the north by removing the barricades.
And now MR.Tadic ?.. you will send your army ?
(Luigi, 20 October 2011 09:44)
For what ? To help KFOR implement resolution 1244 by ensuring freedom of movement of the N. Kosovo inhabitants ? It appears KFOR is able to manage that by itself; no need for any army's help... but I'm sure KFOR appreciates the offer.
What's all this talk about Serbian occupation of Kosovo in 1912?
Ask any unbiased person in the whole world about who have been the main occupiers of Kosovo throughout its history and for the longest periods of time and they will tell you SERBS!
Kosovo has changed rulers at times but has been declared Serbian many times by many different empires. Kosovo was named Serbian for rightful reasons.
Now for just one tiny part of the present which will one day be a tiny part of history where the Serbs were not the main occupiers...it does not mean that Kosovo is not Serbian.
It's not the first time Germany has tried to take Kosovo away from Serbia. The US has been this century's economic power (built on slavery) but clearly nobody likes them (except Albanians) and they will fall soon enough.
Stay strong Serbs, stay at the barricades & stand up to the highly armoured KFOR whimps because they have not one tenth of the courage and spirit that us Serbians have.
if the serbs from all over the world who left the mother country and preach from the luxury and freedoms of western living and invest your time in action and not words... I advocate an idea, you should all fly to north kosova and sit and protest with with your fellow brethren and have a couple of millions serbs from all over the world prtesting at the check points or send $100 each for support , thats leverage and then you would achieve your dreams. Stop wasting time talking act.... Act now!
In the eu there are no borders so whats the point
@ The reality in the ground is this, Belgrade does not run Kosovo.
(adriatik, 20 October 2011 22:44)
Right - does not advance our knowledge substantially, I am afraid. Anyway, the territory momentary under the provisions of UN WSCR 1244 has "former" warlords on top of the institutions in its population center, who would sit in most of the countries where rule of law has been established already in detention - because there are investigation proceedings against them underway for most severe crimes and supporting evidence is multitudinously according to analyst quoted in reputale international media. Grounds for taking them in custody would be danger of suppression of evidence. Would you agree?
The agencies authorised to take the necessary steps to detain the suspects have failed to do so. Taking into account and considering the full spectrum of internationally recognized civil rights and human rights standards it is fully justified and legitimate if people take to the streets - even if that limits freedom of movement. In countries where the rule of law has been established already you call that balancing of legally protected interests.
KFOR is acting on command and not to blame for what is happening. However and so far as I can see it, EULEX failed to balance the legally protected interest in several aspects of the current crisis.
@(adriatik, 21 October 2011 11:59)
... well, in other cases of Balkan warlords procedures have been like in countries where the rule of law has been established already. They have been taken in custody. If evidence is substantial like in the Thaci case - according to analysts quoted in well-respected international media - he has to wait behind bars for the trial. That happens in all nations of law known to me - and to all suspects when there is a danger of supression of evidence. Here we have more. There is strong suspicion of entaglement in killing of witnesses.
So, and the predominatly Serb population in North-Kosovo should sit and wait until this warlord under suspicion of cruel crimes and war-crimes extends his regime to their homeland? Can I figure from your history lecturing about the time before 1999 that they have to take up arms if nobody wants to listen to their legitimate peacful protest? Think about what you are saying.
And don´t come up with the freedom-of-movement argument again. In an unbiased and unprejudiced approach to a balance of legaly protected interests, the limitations in freedom of movement caused by the legitimate protest in North-Kosovo against the provocations of the warlord under suspicion of most severe crimes are to be considered as acceptable - my opinion.
If EULEX simply refuses to discuss with the overwhelming majority in the concerned municipalities about their worris it raises another suspicion: The European countries dominating EULEX want to divert attention from the fact that they contributed to NATO´s "efforts" to bomb the mentioned warlord and his accomplices in power.
I've had enough of these "peace" keepers in Kosovo.
I think we should all turn against them and remove them from Kosovo altogether.
The only problem with this? The K.Albanians are being favoured and do not want to see them disappear because they can't stand on their own two feet nor can they make compromise or negotiate reasonably.
I think the only solution now is ww3 OR a new treaty organisation is made and it can 'counter' the injustices caused around the world by NATO!
We call know how much destruction & bloodshed is caused by NATO yet there is no group powerful enough to stop it. With the rise of the people and the fall of regimes around the world, a new treaty should be made that combats brute force and doesn't allow NATO to conduct drone bombings & play with their guns like toys.
The new treat could enter Kosovo, stop any tear gas & rubber bullets being fired by KFOR & make sure that no side is favoured. The Albanians and the Serbians should be the ones to decide as they are the ones with the history in Kosovo and NOT Germany or the US.
Is anyone ready to make an alliance that counters NATOs illegal use of force?
... once again denial of reality and facts. Thaci started the trouble like he tends to do by sending his officials to the administartive checkpoints in question - one can assume they are loyal to the warlord. This was a unilateral and not agreed step - as such a clear-cut case of provocation. At the same time he announced the appointment of his "judges" to North Mitrovica - KFOR raised concern about this next step of escalation. BTW: Do you occasionally look into B92 news?
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2011&mm=10&dd=21&nav_id=76970
Time is running out for the warlord and his accomplices...
It makes absolutely ZERO difference how many countries have recognized Kosovo. The reality in the ground is this, Belgrade does not run Kosovo.
(adriatik, 20 October 2011 22:44)
It MAKES difference how many countries have recognized Kosovo. For example Russia, China, Brasil haven't recognized Kosovo and it means that situation could be changed in the future.
The reality in the ground is that Belgrade has got close ties with Kosovo North, all Albanian nationalists complain about it.
@You really are trying to make it sound that this is simply a reaction to Thaci. It isn't. If those at the barricades were saying they do not want Thaci's cronies up there I may have grounds to believe you, what they are asking for is the removal of ETHNIC Albanian policeman. key word there being ethnic.
(adriatik, 22 October 2011 10:37)
Sorry, adriatik - I was not aware you are still present in this thread.
That is why I did not respond to your explanation of the background of your own humilations, suffering, grievances - and the reason for the appearance of armed resistance ( as far as UCK fighters are concerned: it needs to be seen in how far they committed crimes and in particular crimes against humanity. For all others applies: it needs to be established whether or not they terminated their "career" in the organisation when thge UCK allegedly was disbanded. But that is another quite strange story).
I agree that all the harm and distress from the 90ies is not supposed to be forgotten - I do not. Anyway, it can explain a lot. But: I suppose you agree that crimes committed in the 90ies or whenever can never JUSTIFY crimes committed later on and until today.
Still there is a strong suspicion which is according to analysts supported by ahigh degree of hard evidence that the institutions in Pristina are not only corrupt but largely under the control of the organised crime. That again suggests that all officials sent by the strongman in Pristina are under the suspicion as well to be loyal to the warlord and alleged "big fish" in organised crime.
Therefore and as long a Kosovo Albanians do not free themselves of the corrupt and probably criminal regime they isolate themselves - and cannot expect that officials from their ethic community are welcome in North Kosovo. Last point: Negotiations just gained momentum when the known unilateral step stirred up trouble - the step was accompanied by Thaci´s threat to send his "judges" to the Nort of river Ibar (KFOR emphasised concern about - thus receiving the announcement as provocation). The usual and internationally to a far extend agreed procedure after such unilateral and provocative steps: Return to status ante and sit together to negotiate. That might make you and others increasingly impatient. Sorry - there is no alternative if you want to come peacefully to a sustainable solution.
What do you mean by "Most countries have not recognized Kosovo as part of Serbia"? The countries which haven't said anything, recognized Kosovo as part of Serbia by defaulf. Do you know what "by default" means?
(aaayyy, 21 October 2011 21:38)
Sure I know. “By default” means that a “Yes” is, by default, at “Yes”. A “No” is, by default, a “No”. A nothing is, by default, a nothing. Whoever does not agree with the default, has to provide evidence to the contrary.
If a region declared its independence, the silence from the other countries means they didn't recognize it. To make it easier for you to understand, say, I declared independence of a site around my country house an independent state and, can you imagine, no country has said so far it hasn't recognized it. Does it mean that the whole world recognized my newly created state? Options for you to answer:
1) Yes
2) No
3) i don't know.
(aaayyy, 21 October 2011 21:38)
It depends on the question you asked those other countries and an assumption about what silence means. Let’s assume that silence means “No” (as somebody called Peggy says). So, if you asked the other countries “do you still recognize the region as part of the previous country?” and there is silence, than we conclude that they no longer recognize the region as part of the previous country. If the silence means “Yes” (sorry Peggy) than we conclude that they still consider the region as part of the previous country.
As you can see there are many unknown variables to make a definitive conclusion. That’s why we need to know what the other countries explicitly said in order to make a conclusion. Now, if you want to make assumptions that make you happy, by all means go ahead and make them; just don’t expect the others to take your assumptions as facts.
It MAKES difference how many countries have recognized Kosovo. For example Russia, China, Brasil haven't recognized Kosovo and it means that situation could be changed in the future.
(aaayyy, 21 October 2011 22:00)
Sure the situation in Russia, China and Brasil can change in the future. Not sure what that has to do with Kosovo. The last time I checked the map, Kosovo was still in Europe, not Asia or Latin America.
The reality in the ground is that Belgrade has got close ties with Kosovo North, all Albanian nationalists complain about it.
(aaayyy, 21 October 2011 22:00)
Who cares what some Albanian nationalist complain or not ? Serb citizen of Kosovo have the right to do that under Kosovo's Constitution the same way that Albanians have the right to do the same with Albania; the same way that, say, the Hewbrew community in New York does with Israel.
And Kosovo's Constitution cannot change without K. Serbs consent, regardless of what the Albanians think.
I really do not wish to ruin whatever camaraderie has been established between us. We both are probably more Londoners than either Albanians or Serb. If you truly believe that Kosovar Albanians had no reason to feel aggrieved, then you are deluded. Read various human rights reports, various history books that were not written by serbs or albanians. no my friend, there were actual reasons why people felt occupied.
balkanbert
You really are trying to make it sound that this is simply a reaction to Thaci. It isn't. If those at the barricades were saying they do not want Thaci's cronies up there I may have grounds to believe you, what they are asking for is the removal of ETHNIC Albanian policeman. key word there being ethnic.
No aaayyy it really makes no difference whatsoever. What do you think Serbia is saying in these talks that it has already had with the Albanians? I can't talk to you because Brazil doesn't recognize you? The recognition is merely an act of symbolism. Its basically what Serbia is doing now. In theory it does not recognize the new country. In practice it has. How? Very simple. It has removed the 1.8 million Albanians from the Serbian electoral roll. What does this mean? It either envisages taking the territory by force and then expelling all Albanians, or it has recognized that Kosovo is a lost cause. It has erected a trade ban. Only countries can erect trade bans against each other. No country refuses to trade with its own province. Last. It says it does not acknowledge the independence, yet it has engaged in conversation with people who are signatories to the declaration of independence and as such, given them political legitimacy. Of course no government will ever say Kosovo is lost, as that is such an obvious vote loser. However, the most rational Serb can see past such stances. The other factor to consider is the economic sacrifice Serbia is making to disrupt Kosovo. It is costing it to the tune one 16 EURO's per second. What is the return on that? Negative. Don't worry, while many Serbs will long and hard protest that Kosovo is still part of Serbia, the others accept the reality
Well done, KFOR. This is the only way to bring peace to northern citizens of KOsovo. Ordinary citizens in that part would not like to stand and freeze next to barricadesd to accomodate needs of some mega criminals and terrorists who appear to be sponsored by Belgrade. One may ask a queation is Serbia returning to the terror of the 1990s?
LOL figures. Albanians cannot go and take care of the Serbs in Northern Kosovo by themselves so they need a outside military force to do it for them. What cowards. If Kosovo was such a independent country, could it not take care of that by themselves? No that's right because they are not a sovereign country, just a client state serving the temporary interests of the empire.
But just like Taiwan, Saddam and plenty of African dictators in the past, you too will be dumped when you no longer serve no purpose. That day may come sooner if Occupy Wall St. gets its way and the U.S. ceases to have its hand in every dispute.
The only oen's who will loose in this is Serbia, but that is maybe good, because it might open the serbian people's eyes that Kosovo is a reality, and rule of law will have to be implemented in the north of Kosovo as well. The serbs in northers Kosovo think they can do whatever they want They should stop listening to their criminal leaders who only benifit from smuggeling, drug trafficking, and other illegal actions, and not act as if they are the only one's in the world. Kosovo will take care of them as well, just like they did with the serbs living in the southern part, and don't forget that is more 60% of the serbian population living in Kosovo. There is no problem, and these people are doing fine. Belgrade has to see that, and should focus on that instead of pouring more oil into this fire by supporting their unrealitic demands.
A couple of landmines buried in the rubble of a barricade would keep KFOR well back. KFOR may kill a few Serbian civilians before they concede defeat, but they will be defeated of that there is no doubt.
The international forces are removing the trucks that Serbs parked in the middle of the road leading to the Brnjak crossing.
--
What international forces? You mean Western/NATO forces right? The West attempts to kidnap the word "international" while Germany tries to kidnap the word "Europe" and the US attempts to kidnap "democracy".
Anyway, back to the story. First we had the spark, then the flame and soon, fire. NATO is already stretched and it needs to be further stretched. Serbs are on the front lines of an international resistance movement that will destroy NATO once and for all. The empire is crumbling under its own greed.
I really feel sorry for Albanians who had the opportunity to negotiate a true and lasting compromise between our people but decided to take the other path. What a shame the opportunity is lost. Tell me, what are you going to do when NATO is removed from KiM?
"What international forces? You mean Western/NATO forces right? The West attempts to kidnap the word "international" while Germany tries to kidnap the word "Europe" and the US attempts to kidnap "democracy". "
You are a tool Zoran, Seriously! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_Force
United Arab Emirates (1500 - now 0)
Ukraine (1,300 - now 135)
Russia (4,000? - now 0)
Sweden (1100 – now 60)
India (800 - now 0)
Austria (561 – now 472)
Bosnia and Herzegovina (550-750 - now 0)
Finland (395 - now 20)
Ireland (279 – now 12)
Switzerland (220 – now 220)
Argentina (200, now 0 - 2000 to present Hospital (ret) + Combat Engineer company)[9][10]
Georgia (182 - now 0)[11]
Morocco (158)
Armenia (70, now 53)
Mongolia (40 - now 0)
Azerbaijan (34 - now 0)[12]
Chile (? now 0)
Malaysia (? - now 0)
Philippines (? - now 0)
"I really feel sorry for Albanians who had the opportunity to negotiate a true and lasting compromise between our people but decided to take the other path. What a shame the opportunity is lost. Tell me, what are you going to do when NATO is removed from KiM?
(Zoran,"
No need to feel sorry for them, especially from your patronizing lol. If Slovenians can protect them self against the mighty Serbs, I am sure Kosovo will hold on
Compromising with insane criminal minds that are threatening your future for your kids every day, just will not happen lad.
Better go back and sponsor Dick&Carla, live that imaginary line till you can, once that dream is over, more reality is coming your way.
No need to feel sorry for them, especially from your patronizing lol. If Slovenians can protect them self against the mighty Serbs, I am sure Kosovo will hold on
(oiu, 20 October 2011 11:32)
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Wow, you have three non-Western/NATO participants with a deployment of a little over 300 and this makes you international? Like I mentioned, the West has kidnapped that term for their own needs. There is nothing international about it.
Slovenia vs. Serbia? Where did you get that from? It was Slovenia vs. Yugoslavia and since there wasn't a large minority in that republic it separated relatively peacefully. If memory serves me right, both the president and head of the army were both Croatians while the JNA soldiers killed were mainly Slovenians.
As for KiM Albanians, their only protectors are NATO and when they fall we'll see those naked cowards running like they always have. They weren't brave enough to negotiate a lasting and fair compromise. They were playing tough guys hiding behind NATO.
As for KiM Albanians, their only protectors are NATO and when they fall we'll see those naked cowards running like they always have. They weren't brave enough to negotiate a lasting and fair compromise. They were playing tough guys hiding behind NATO.
(Zoran, 20 October 2011 13:45)
K-Alb were a minority that your state was suppose to protect and help and treat with respect. They did not have a regular army, guns, canons, tanks, airplanes, you did thus of course you had the upper hand, killing and murdering untrained guerilla fighters and/or civilians. Even with that, you never had your way with K-Alb, they always fought you to the bitter end.
NATO will leave one day, of course. After that there will be a gun for a gun, a cannon for a cannon, a tank for a tank. You will not roam free to kill and murder at will. Until the mutually asured destruction is not achieved between Kosovo and Serbia, of course there will be no peace.
Until the mutually asured destruction is not achieved between Kosovo and Serbia, of course there will be no peace.
(Denis, 20 October 2011 16:17)
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And that is the path NATO and Albanians are leading to. You didn't want to live under Serbian rule and we accepted that. Now Serbians don't want to live under Albanian rule and you think that's wrong? We are the ones offering lasting negotiations and you guys are there attempting to force your rule.
The fact is, Serbians are not leaving and because of that fact, you have a lot to lose. This isn't going to be gun for gun, tank for tank. It is going to be FYROMians, Serbians, Montenegrins and Greeks ready to solve the Albanian problem on Orthodox land. When you throw away negotiations that is exactly what you will face. Not yet but coming soon.
"Serbs are on the front lines of an international resistance movement that will destroy NATO once and for all."
Which resistance movement would that be? Please don't tell the Occupy (insert capital city here) is demanding that the border checkpoints are manned by ethnic Serbs?
Zoran, I appreciate your committment and the strength you have in your beliefs. You clearly are passionate. I disagree with one of the passionat estatement syou made however,
""Serbs are on the front lines of an international resistance movement that will destroy NATO once and for all""
NATO is not going away. It will not be destroyed by this.
Attention Mr. Tadic! what is your plan now?? now that NATO / KFOR are HURTING your people. it is the time now to send the Serbian Army and defend the people. how long will you allow the "occupiers" hurt your people?? you are the current Serbian president. PLease act on this!!!!
For those who say 'let's talk', what is there to talk about? Do you think a compromize is possible? Let's see, the Albanians want nothing short of independence, the Serbs will not even contemplate it. Neither side will budge as both sides have made it clear they wont be awayed from those lines. So talk about what? There were discussion held for over 3 years, they yielded nothing. Zilch. Nada. Serbs of the North do not want to be integrated into the government of Prishtina. Fine. There are also Albanians in Presheva who most likely would like to join their bretheren in Kosovo. So land swap. As for reaching a compromise solution for the WHOLE of Kosovo, that day has gone for at least 2 or 3 generations.
Serbs was so tough yesterday. They even wanted to ''control'' kfor crodon passing trough the barrcades.
(Demi, 20 October 2011 13:13)
They are a heck of a lot tougher than the sissies in the KLA who provoked a war then ran away all while crying about abuse to NATO:)
(Englebert, 20 October 2011 14:48)
As far as I have heard the serbian military ran away from KLA fighters if the serbian army diden't have tanks and heavy arms in their desposial.
You must have got it twisted. It was the albanian unarmed civilians who cried for Nato when they got killed by serbian soldiers. Very tough soldiers attacking unarmed civilians when they lost battles against KLA.
Albanians diden't start the war in the balkans. And why should albanian live in the same country as serbs when croatians and bosniak wich speak the same language as you don't want anything to do with you ??
Ok, remove the barricades, then its time to dig upp some large holes in the roads with portable winched down bridges made of timber or something, no need for anything fancy, what are you going to do then? Rebuild all roads in Northern Kosovo?
(Srboslav, 20 October 2011 17:33)
We have already rebuilt our roads and houses in Kosova after your army left, so what's a few more roads up in the north.
Of course, easy for you to have the local Serbs digging holes and raising barricades so that you can have your little fun on line when their lives there remain miserable.
It is sad to see the some Serbs in this forum are advocating a solution of either all or nothing. Whoever places itself in a such position it is bound for a terrible loss. What is happening in North Kosovo is almost as identical as to the events that lead to a mass exodus of Serbs in Krajina. Gentlemen for those of you which are advocating a hard core solution I like to ask you: How will several lightly armed Serb civilians do against KSF in the event KFOR request their presence to pacify the situation? Please dont tell me that Serb army is coming to the resque because IT IS NOT.
Everyone knows that the Serbs do not wish to live under Prishtinas regime. However Kosovo is recognized as a state by some of the most powerful nations in the world and they will never allow a few dozen Serbs to set up mini control zones inside Kosovo.
Everything has a limit and endurance and Kosovo Serbs are testing the limit and endurance of KFOR troops to their dismal.
Learn from the past mistakes of Krjina & Bosnia. I refuse to believe that Serbs and Albanians can not reach a compromise. I think if both sides sat down and listen to each other a compromise can be reached.
How many casualities so far?
I am wondering whether Serbian troops would have removed roadblocks by Kosovo Albanians in the same sensible manner in the 1990es.
I am also wondering whether Kosovo Serbs would prefer to face Kosovo troops, rather than KFOR, on the other side of the barricades.
@Kosovo is a reality, and rule of law will have to be implemented in the north of Kosovo as well
(bill, 20 October 2011 10:26) -
Rule of law? Do you mean what the outlaws in Pristina consider "rule" and "law"? You are not seroius, are you? "The Guardian" knows what NATO knows and what you are supposed to know: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/24/hashim-thaci-kosovo-organised-crime
Denis-you're funny. What killing are you talking about? All independent reports talk about casualties of a few thousand, most of those combatants. You really have to stop believing your own lies. Telling them time and again doesn't make them true. Trust me, you were treated with kid gloves.
Tell KFOR that freedom of movement for the citizens means no customs posts between Kosovo and the rest of Serbia. All Serbian citizens are citizens in Kosovo.
KFOR should defend free movement of goods and people, and not allow any more attempts to introduce Albanian racistly motivated customs posts.
There is no way that the north of Kosovo is going to be ruled by Pristina. Time for a change of policy.
"There are also Albanians in Presheva who most likely would like to join their bretheren in Kosovo."
adriatik
The albanians in Presevo don't have anything to fear by the surrounding serb majority unlike the serbs in Kosovo. However, no one would be happier then me if albs and serbs part once and for all. The problem is that you albs live on Serbian soil. So a landswap is not possible. Its like giving yourself something that is already yours. Just because albanians have 10 children per family and now form a majority in Kosovo doesn't give you the right to someone elses territorry. I do hope there is a final solution so that we never ever have to see eachother again. A future with theives, murderers and arsonists is out of the question.
You have touched upon the point, Tinka. The overwhelming majority population does not want to see the ruthless gunmen of the outlaws ruling in Pristina roaming their municipalities - and do not want to see them at checkpoints of administative lines or elsewhere. May they be dressed in custom uniforms, special police gear or their old UCK-outfit. Make sense, doesn´t it? That´s what the protest is about.
And very odd that so-called peacekeepers are cracking down on the protest in support of the outlaws in Pristina. Anyway, it was not the decison of the poor soldiers - the usual suspects in NATO and EU decided that and are alongside once again with the last warlords holding office in the Balkans.
Germans & Americans firing on our citizens in our holy land.
Typical & a disgrace.
This evil will not win and we will overcome it once again.
This land belongs to us and has never and will never be an independent piece of land, but rather an integral part of Serbia & our history.
It is time for Tadic to send some of our army to the barricades and fight fire with fire.
The Albanians don't want to talk. Kfor & NATO didn't want to talk the last few days. There is no real other solution now.
EULEX & NATO (KFOR) are clearly favouring the UDI & are not acting with neutrality. There is perfect freedom of movement in the North with the Serbians so they can stop covering up their lies with objectives of "freedom of movement" etc
If I didn't know any better Zoran, I'd say ou were inciting war. Bjut fortunately I do know better and I still say you're inciting war. Albanian problem on Orthodox land? what does mean? how exaclty is that going to be solved by the Greeks, Montenegrons and the Macedonians? Is this some sort of pathetic rallying cry to battle? p.s. what about the orthodox Albanians who live in Albanian, are they part of the problem too?
If I didn't know any better Zoran, I'd say ou were inciting war.
(adriatik, 20 October 2011 17:26)
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Who am I to incite war? Do you think I'm the president of Serbia or something? Now look at your neighbours and tell me, who really likes you? When NATO leaves, tell me, who do you have to protect you?
Like I said, if you give up on negotiations that could potentially bring lasting peace to the region, you run the risk of losing everything if your protector loses interest/funds. Just remind me, what is the financial situation of your protector? Anything to brag about?
You see, this "global" financial crisis is a myth because once again the West has kidnapped the term "global". There is no such thing in China, India, South America, Africa and so on. It is in fact a Western financial crisis. You know, the people there you can hide behind for however long they can afford it.
When they leave you are faced with some very angry people. That is the reality and you guys, including your leaders, are the ones that incited it.
Looks like KFOR couldn't handle being embarrased by a bunch of locals for more than 24 hours and needed to either nut up or shut up. Well we've seen this before: KFOR removes barricades and Serbs erect new ones. So before all the little Albanian warriors here get a boner because "law and order" is being established and some sort of "Oluja" is coming, remember that Albanian authority doesn't exist up there and it never will :)
Denis-you suffer from a disease called Walter Mitty syndrome. You believe in a fantasy world that doesn't exist. Your views are myopic and don't really deserve response. Nevertheless you insist on coming to a Serbian site to spread your nonsense.
The KLA were and are the scum of the earth. From drug and human trafficking to organ harvesting, they were considered terrorists until NATO thought they could use them as spotters for their planes. Planes that bombed from a hundred miles away. Until NATO got involved your "heroes" were being given a lesson in counter insurgency warfare. Your war criminals managed to destroy 13 old rustbuckets that were way past their sell by date. Your spotters were useless. Ask NATO. They were livid.
I don't want to even begin on your "regular" army. A bunch of heroin pushers who had spent their lives ferrying heroin with donkeys over the mountains.
Your children were sold to westerners for a loaf of bread.
You have nothing to be proud of, you should bow your head in shame.
KFOR believes when it carries out ethnic cleansing, i.e. if it succeeds it expects all serbs (who do not want to live under the albanian king pins of crime) to 'leave' or 'flee', but of course not 'forced out' or 'ethnically cleansed'.
It's only a matter of time before KFOR kills someone and then the arrest warrants will come out. KFOR will squeal 'immunity' but there is no immunity from crimes against humanity. What is good for the Goose...
I'm not surprised by the big words here by the albanian commenters? So where is your glorious KLA? For once not doing their own dirty work because they'd be easily delt with as they were in the past before they had the backing of NATO.
adriatik you rather defeated your own point. You outlined that there are indeed things to talk about at the same time say there is no point talking.
Usually when there is completely diagreement about something the best solution is to talk, if not one or both parties can get violent. I don't believe that violence is the best way to go about things.
I watch this conflict with hands covering my eyes. In this day and age is what we see at the checkpoints the best we can hope for? Really expected more from the internationals.
How many casualities so far?
I am wondering whether Serbian troops would have removed roadblocks by Kosovo Albanians in the same sensible manner in the 1990es.
(Tinka, 20 October 2011 12:07)
Kosovo Albanians more than anybody else practiced tactics of placing their women and children in crossfire, so it was difficult to avoid casualties when dealing with them
Plus perhaps I am ready to believe that KFOR is more qualified and better equipped than YU troops.
But still qualified and equipped occupant and aggressor (KFOR that is) nevertheless the aggressor.
Serbs of the North do not want to be integrated into the government of Prishtina. Fine. There are also Albanians in Presheva who most likely would like to join their bretheren in Kosovo. So land swap. As for reaching a compromise solution for the WHOLE of Kosovo, that day has gone for at least 2 or 3 generations.
(adriatik, 20 October 2011 17:19)
I personally don't know if Serbia is interested in keeping Presheva, but your comment assumes that Serbia and "Kosovo" have the same status, while it is far from it. Most countries haven't recognized self-proclaimed Kosovo state.
However Kosovo is recognized as a state by some of the most powerful nations in the world and they will never allow a few dozen Serbs to set up mini control zones inside Kosovo.
I think if both sides sat down and listen to each other a compromise can be reached.
(Gjakove, 20 October 2011 19:37)
Why not a few dozen Serbs to set up mini control zones inside Kosovo? Isn't it a good compromise?
And why should albanian live in the same country as serbs when croatians and bosniak wich speak the same language as you don't want anything to do with you ??
(Demi, 20 October 2011 16:50)
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So why are your NATO partners forcing that to happen? If Serbians in Croatia, Bosnia and KiM don't want to live with Albanians then why are they forcing it? Why are you trying to control the North of KiM where the majority Serbians want nothing to do with your kind?
As far as I have heard the serbian military ran away from KLA fighters if the serbian army diden't have tanks and heavy arms in their desposial.
(Demi, 20 October 2011 16:50)
Well you heard wrong, son. Even most Albanians will admit that the KLA was waxed in every single engagement with the Serbs. The KLA provoked battles and then ran with their tails between their legs into the mountains, every time.
adriatik you rather defeated your own point. You outlined that there are indeed things to talk about at the same time say there is no point talking.
Usually when there is completely diagreement about something the best solution is to talk, if not one or both parties can get violent. I don't believe that violence is the best way to go about things.
I watch this conflict with hands covering my eyes. In this day and age is what we see at the checkpoints the best we can hope for? Really expected more from the internationals.
(bganon, 20 October 2011 19:45)
Dear Mr. Bganon,
How would Beograd have handled the present situation. Should the Internationals be held to a higher standard than Beograd. After all, it is Beograd that is clamoring to be admitted to the EU, with that must come a higher standard of behavior. Is beograd up to the task. I believe it is you that has defeated your own point.
So talk about what? Do you think a compromize is possible? Let's see, the Albanians want nothing short of independence, the Serbs will not even contemplate it.
(adriatik, 20 October 2011 17:19)
To talk about KFOR and Albanian police leaving Kosovo North.
"I personally don't know if Serbia is interested in keeping Presheva, but your comment assumes that Serbia and "Kosovo" have the same status, while it is far from it. Most countries haven't recognized self-proclaimed Kosovo state."
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It makes absolutely ZERO difference how many countries have recognized Kosovo. The reality in the ground is this, Belgrade does not run Kosovo. It wants to run it, or rather have a say in it. To achieve this objective it'll have to talk to the people who live there and who essentially want nothing to do with Belgrade. So, that half of Africa does not acknowledge Kosovo's statehood makes no difference whatsoever. Serbia doesn't recognize it either (in theory, in practice it has), but it still needs to talk to them and as such, ACKNOWLEDGE it
Do you know that Turkey and Albania have a defense agreement?
(adriatik, 20 October 2011 19:59)
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LOL! I do now! Turkey looks to be in a bit of a bother also. Which of its neighbours actually likes Turkey? Looks like Turkey and Albania will be in the same boat soon. I suppose that's the problem of being too far east and a member of NATO.
It is sad to see the some Serbs in this forum are advocating a solution of either all or nothing. Whoever places itself in a such position it is bound for a terrible loss. What is happening in North Kosovo is almost as identical as to the events that lead to a mass exodus of Serbs in Krajina.
(Gjakove, 20 October 2011 19:37)
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Looks like you are mistaken. Who is advocating an all or nothing solution? Certainly not the Serbs. Who is attempting to control all of KiM against the wishes of Serbs there?
Now, you are right though as those taking such a position are bound for a terrible loss.
Also, another thing to keep in mind. Drunken Yeltsin is long gone. We aren't living in the 90s anymore.
Ok, remove the barricades, then its time to dig upp some large holes in the roads with portable winched down bridges made of timber or something, no need for anything fancy, what are you going to do then? Rebuild all roads in Northern Kosovo?
"There are also Albanians in Presheva who most likely would like to join their bretheren in Kosovo."
adriatik
The albanians in Presevo don't have anything to fear by the surrounding serb majority unlike the serbs in Kosovo. However, no one would be happier then me if albs and serbs part once and for all. The problem is that you albs live on Serbian soil. So a landswap is not possible. Its like giving yourself something that is already yours. Just because albanians have 10 children per family and now form a majority in Kosovo doesn't give you the right to someone elses territorry. I do hope there is a final solution so that we never ever have to see eachother again. A future with theives, murderers and arsonists is out of the question.
(MikeC, 20 October 2011 19:05)
Mike I have no idea what you are talking about maybe in past few families had 10 children and this was in titos time but I do not know many families that have more than 3 children today 4 max.
In rural areas maybe still some reach 5 or 6 but that's normal when you work in field you need many hands its like htis most places in the world.
the idea of albanians having 10 kids comes from Titos time where he said who ever has 10Children he would become Godfather to that chield and some Albanian families did reach 10 children and it was all over the news.
On the other hand so could Serbian ones, Also Slobo did put same thing and it was for 3 children and you get 2 years off for Maternity leave paid. Albanians took advantage of that but sou could Serbs. the think that really hurt Serbs was that they did not count on Albaninas sendin Kids abroad they thought this will hurt them by lowering the number they did not count on Albanians saving money and buying land and sending most of Money home.
I come from a family of 4 = 2 boys and 2 girls we are all educated in USA, Austria but what issue do you have with us Albanians having more kids I think we are contributing to our country and this world in a productive way so I wish my parents had few more so more good would come in this world :)
"A future with theives, murderers and arsonists is out of the question."
I agree, which is why Kosovar Albanians want nothing to do with Serbia.
@Zoran
Let me get this straight. There's a financial crisis in the West and this is somehow going to aid the Orthodox Brotherhood in the Balkans? Do you know there's a financial crisis in Greece (art of your alliance apparently). Do you know that Turkey and Albania have a defense agreement? You really need to stop reading fairy tales.
@(adriatik, 21 October 2011 11:59)
... well, in other cases of Balkan warlords procedures have been like in countries where the rule of law has been established already. They have been taken in custody. If evidence is substantial like in the Thaci case - according to analysts quoted in well-respected international media - he has to wait behind bars for the trial. That happens in all nations of law known to me - and to all suspects when there is a danger of supression of evidence. Here we have more. There is strong suspicion of entaglement in killing of witnesses.
So, and the predominatly Serb population in North-Kosovo should sit and wait until this warlord under suspicion of cruel crimes and war-crimes extends his regime to their homeland? Can I figure from your history lecturing about the time before 1999 that they have to take up arms if nobody wants to listen to their legitimate peacful protest? Think about what you are saying.
And don´t come up with the freedom-of-movement argument again. In an unbiased and unprejudiced approach to a balance of legaly protected interests, the limitations in freedom of movement caused by the legitimate protest in North-Kosovo against the provocations of the warlord under suspicion of most severe crimes are to be considered as acceptable - my opinion.
If EULEX simply refuses to discuss with the overwhelming majority in the concerned municipalities about their worris it raises another suspicion: The European countries dominating EULEX want to divert attention from the fact that they contributed to NATO´s "efforts" to bomb the mentioned warlord and his accomplices in power.
What's all this talk about Serbian occupation of Kosovo in 1912?
Ask any unbiased person in the whole world about who have been the main occupiers of Kosovo throughout its history and for the longest periods of time and they will tell you SERBS!
Kosovo has changed rulers at times but has been declared Serbian many times by many different empires. Kosovo was named Serbian for rightful reasons.
Now for just one tiny part of the present which will one day be a tiny part of history where the Serbs were not the main occupiers...it does not mean that Kosovo is not Serbian.
It's not the first time Germany has tried to take Kosovo away from Serbia. The US has been this century's economic power (built on slavery) but clearly nobody likes them (except Albanians) and they will fall soon enough.
Stay strong Serbs, stay at the barricades & stand up to the highly armoured KFOR whimps because they have not one tenth of the courage and spirit that us Serbians have.
For those who say 'let's talk', what is there to talk about? Do you think a compromize is possible? Let's see, the Albanians want nothing short of independence, the Serbs will not even contemplate it. Neither side will budge as both sides have made it clear they wont be awayed from those lines. So talk about what? There were discussion held for over 3 years, they yielded nothing. Zilch. Nada. Serbs of the North do not want to be integrated into the government of Prishtina. Fine. There are also Albanians in Presheva who most likely would like to join their bretheren in Kosovo. So land swap. As for reaching a compromise solution for the WHOLE of Kosovo, that day has gone for at least 2 or 3 generations.
(adriatik, 20 October 2011 17:19)
Although I disagree with your idea of a land swap, you can see that there is a way to talk. You just did. Serbs can do the same. That's how dialogue starts. It's just like buying a house or car. Each party comes with their demands and in the end there is an agreement. This isn't rocket science.
Reading the very different reality that exist for Kosovo "Serbian reality" and "Albanian reality",one thing to do is to write the story of Balkan by group of storians composed by members of third parties. This is important to calm the spirit of the people by both sides, but not the solution.As Albanian I think that elite of Serbia gradualy shoud direct the Serbian nation versus the reality that exist know in Kosova and that is acepted from all ex Yugoslavs states and from 22 members of EU.The Albanians must be patient, cause true or not the Serbs realy belive that Kosova is the Jerusalem of Serbia and is realy difficult for them to acept the reality in the ground.One thing is sure that peace is profitable for both sides and war has no winer.
Bill, what planet are you on, and I quote you "Kosovo will take care of them as well, just like they did with the serbs living in the southern part2, how ironic that you make this statement at a time when Serbian returnees are attacked and one person was killed, (police are looking for 1 Albanian suspect).I have visted the places villages inhabited by Serbians living in Novo Brdo, Ghoradzivac and other places. I visited these places on official business whislt working for EULEX Police, and trust me, the locals were not very positive regarding the attitude of the local albanians towards them. Time to get real please.
The entire EU is in financial crises, mate and not just Greece. Read the papers where S&Ps have threatened to downgrade France. The west is so far in dodo that it needs a ladder to see the gutter.
“Do you know that Turkey and Albania have a defense agreement?”
This is a priceless statement – Turkey and Albania have a defence agreement. Yeah so what? One impoverished country trying to defend another – hello is there any logic in your brain. Turkey can’t control the Kurds let alone help Albania.
Then again why would they need a defence agreement when they are now in NATO?????
The financial crises in the west is benefiting the Orthodox Brotherhood as it is brining forward something that would have taken 30 years to achieve. The only western countries not on the watch list are Germany, Canada and Australia – that’s it baby. The US is currently 47 trillion dollars up the proverbial creek and this one was even mentioned recently in the US on Fox of all TV channels.
You really need to stop reading fairytales as this financial crises is far more dangerous than anything so far in western histrory.
This is what your telling me, The Greeks will join in a union with the Macedonians (ahem) to resolve the Albanian 'problem' once and for all. Greek & Macedonians together?
(adriatik, 21 October 2011 00:22)
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LOL! I like your style, make up a story and then disprove it.
In fact, in all likelihood, FYROM will probably form another union with Serbia along with Montenegro and BiH.
The West has overstretched its influence and it will have to retreat. I really can't see it going beyond Croatia, Hungary, Slovakia and Poland. Even holding onto some of those will be difficult when prosperity faces East.
... once again denial of reality and facts. Thaci started the trouble like he tends to do by sending his officials to the administartive checkpoints in question - one can assume they are loyal to the warlord. This was a unilateral and not agreed step - as such a clear-cut case of provocation. At the same time he announced the appointment of his "judges" to North Mitrovica - KFOR raised concern about this next step of escalation. BTW: Do you occasionally look into B92 news?
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2011&mm=10&dd=21&nav_id=76970
Time is running out for the warlord and his accomplices...
Of course it's good to talk. I am all for a compromise solution. It will be better for everyone in the long run. It may be hard to believe but I want a better life for all the people of the region, some more so than others admittedly. The serbs have been trying to talk, understand that things will never be like before, and the Albanians have their legitimate requirements. But every time we start getting somewhere Thaci starts talking tough. This guy just shouldn't be in politics. He served his purpose and should now either be sent to the Hague or put out to pasture. Speaking for myself, I would be happy if Serbia kept the North and control of its holy sites. The Albanians will get almost everything they wanted anyway. It is the Albs who are all or nothing. Serbia has been trying to get out of this with at least some dignity for ages. If the Albs feel Serbs don't deserve any dignity in Kosovo, then accept it as some sort of noblesse oblige. Show us how to treat people then. Albs- speak to your representatives and tell em to cut a deal.
I have read you say warlord this warlord that countless times. Allow me to tell you why these 'warlords' exist. from 1989 to 1997, most Albanians had never even heard of the KLA and pursued a policy of passive resistance. it got them nowhere. bullets and blood sadly, managed to the attention of the Serbs first of all and then the world. so Serbian policies DIRECTLY led to the creation of these 'warlords'. as for thaci, i have told you before, if as you say there is enough evidence to convict him, let Hague indict him already, put forth the proof and have him sent to prison where he belongs. however, do not confuse every single KLA member for a 'warlord'. remember, kosovar's wanted talks before 1999, they were pushed aside.
Srboljub
Yes, the voices of moderates was not so loud when there was an army in 1997/98. allow me to tell you why serbs now want talks, because they lost the war. that's it. what Serbia wants is to change Kosovo's borders along ethnic lines. fine, however, there are Albanians inside Serbia proper who also make the majority that would like join with Kosovo. so yes let us swap ladns mutually, shake hands and sign a deal. do not make it sound though as if its only the strongheadness of the Albanians that is in the way
What do you mean by "Most countries have not recognized Kosovo as part of Serbia"? The countries which haven't said anything, recognized Kosovo as part of Serbia by defaulf. Do you know what "by default" means?
(aaayyy, 21 October 2011 21:38)
Sure I know. “By default” means that a “Yes” is, by default, at “Yes”. A “No” is, by default, a “No”. A nothing is, by default, a nothing. Whoever does not agree with the default, has to provide evidence to the contrary.
If a region declared its independence, the silence from the other countries means they didn't recognize it. To make it easier for you to understand, say, I declared independence of a site around my country house an independent state and, can you imagine, no country has said so far it hasn't recognized it. Does it mean that the whole world recognized my newly created state? Options for you to answer:
1) Yes
2) No
3) i don't know.
(aaayyy, 21 October 2011 21:38)
It depends on the question you asked those other countries and an assumption about what silence means. Let’s assume that silence means “No” (as somebody called Peggy says). So, if you asked the other countries “do you still recognize the region as part of the previous country?” and there is silence, than we conclude that they no longer recognize the region as part of the previous country. If the silence means “Yes” (sorry Peggy) than we conclude that they still consider the region as part of the previous country.
As you can see there are many unknown variables to make a definitive conclusion. That’s why we need to know what the other countries explicitly said in order to make a conclusion. Now, if you want to make assumptions that make you happy, by all means go ahead and make them; just don’t expect the others to take your assumptions as facts.
I think the history of Tsar Dushan has gone to your head. This is what your telling me, The Greeks will join in a union with the Macedonians (ahem) to resolve the Albanian 'problem' once and for all. Greek & Macedonians together? Let us not stop there however. Greece being a NATO member and Albania being a NATO member and will be at war apparently. Gee dude, if this is EVER to happen, it's not going to occur for at least another 200 years. You know what, Greece had the power (in theory) to stop the bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999. If it so cherished its Orthodox brother, you'd have to ask, why didn't it stop it? You seriously have let the glory years of Dushan get your head. Let it go, seriously.
As far as I have heard the serbian military ran away from KLA fighters if the serbian army diden't have tanks and heavy arms in their desposial.
(Demi, 20 October 2011 16:50)
LOL where'd you read that? The Onion or New Kosova Report? :)
And now MR.Tadic ?.. you will send your army ?
(Luigi, 20 October 2011 09:44)
For what ? To help KFOR implement resolution 1244 by ensuring freedom of movement of the N. Kosovo inhabitants ? It appears KFOR is able to manage that by itself; no need for any army's help... but I'm sure KFOR appreciates the offer.
I personally don't know if Serbia is interested in keeping Presheva, but your comment assumes that Serbia and "Kosovo" have the same status, while it is far from it. Most countries haven't recognized self-proclaimed Kosovo state.
(aaayyy, 20 October 2011 21:49)
Most countries have not recognized Kosovo as part of Serbia either. In any case, that's irrelevant. Whatever the status of Kosovo it does not change the fact that Serbia and Kosovo can swap territories, if they so agree.
I have read countless conspiracy theories, but the ones here are the best. The Orthodox Brotherhood is apparently starting and its first line of fire are the Albanians. How are you going to deal with them, murder? Without even getting to this fantasy, how is this union (it'll NEVER happen) going to make Catholic Croatia feel? Serbs on these forums still talk about ''reclaiming'' Krajina. How will NATO react to a growth in Russian influence in the Balkans? How will the EU react to it? Honestly, I do not know what you people are reading, but whatever it is, it has played tricks with your heads and managed to brainwash you beyond even the powers of Jesus.
Adriatik- the chaos many envisaged by the UDI is close to happening. Because you wish to change the borders without negotiation, now you suggest all these different interests and changes. Rs and Krajina to Serbia, Presevo to Albania, Istria to Italy, Vojvodina to Hungary etc. Lets just all declare independence why dont we. Congratulations, the pandoras box has been totally opened. And yes, we lost the battle, the war is a different matter. No shame in losing to the most powerful killing machine in history though.
Do people understand interconnected economies. You think this financial crisis that the West is experiencing now wont have ramifications in China?
(adriatik, 21 October 2011 10:37)
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You are a funny fellow. The Western economic crisis has been around for a few years and yet China's economy continues to grow at 10% each year. India, Brazil and others are not too far behind either. The reason? Well, they are relying more and more on their local economies. There are about a billion people in the West whereas China has 1.3 billion and India following closely with 1.2. They have a cheap and efficient labour force and this next cycle will be a long and prosperous one for anyone aligned with the BRICs.
Yes, this is about cycles my friend and the cycle of Western dominance has almost ended. As usual, Albanians choose the wrong side at the wrong time, as history has shown time and again. Just wait and see.
They weren't brave enough to negotiate a lasting and fair compromise. They were playing tough guys hiding behind NATO.
(Zoran, 20 October 2011 13:45)
Zoran,
Had you spread these lies 20 years ago, you would probably impress someone as at that time not all people had access to information that would prove you lie. However, doing these things in the eleventh year of 21st century is more than preposterous as all of us now have access to the same information you do.
Allow me to tell you that was no fair and lasting compromise that would satisfy you Serbs even if we Albanians agreed to one. Never in two years of negotiations from 2005 until 2007, Serbian delegation had opened the details of that plan called more than autonomy less than independence. They had never agreed to serious negotiations. While in one of Viena meetings they offered Kosovo to be demilitarized zone, in another they requested the Serbian military be allowed to return to Kosovo.
Furthermore your constitution that was approved in the end of 2006 (during negotiations where Kosovo Albanians were not eligible to participate - although at least declaratively you consider them your citizens) say that the only organ competent to ensure the autonomy for Kosovo is Serbian Parlament. This means that any agreed solution in negotiations will be prone to sole interpretation of Serbian Parlament, practically will mean what you say it means without taking in consideration the legitim rights and concerns of majority of Kosovo's population. With this paragraph Serbia has withdrew the already unserious offer to Kosovo Albanians.
Let me remind you that the fact that we Albanians live in Kosovo does not mean that we live in your land. Serbia has occupied Kosovo in 1912 while Albanians in Kosovo lived centuries ago before that year.
And bravety is to fight these your objectives and cowardice is to accept this "solution" and not vice versus.
According to you, these barricades were erected because Thaci is under suspicion of of the most horrendous crimes and he is wanting to establish his law and order there. nonsense. this has NOTHING to do with Thaci. if i follow your logic, should a LDK Albanian become Prime Minister (LDK had nothing to do with the KLA) the barricades will be removed. Utter rubbish. the barricades are there because the North does not want to recognize the authority of Prishtina, be they KLA, LDK or Buddhists. They have called for the removal of ETHNIC Albanians from the border post. that is self explanatory. what they want, is Belgrade to take control. this has nothing to do with Thaci being under suspicion for war crimes. i'm afraid it is an ethnic issue sadly. you can deny it till kingdom come, it wont make it any less true.
as for the radicalization of albanians, in all movements you have factions. 8 years albanians pursued passive resistance. 8 years they were ignored. they were stripped of most rights, kicked out of universities and a period of police state followed. in 1997, when at the initiation of the Vatican, an agreement was reached for Kosovar Albanian students to have access to university buildings the first signs of dissent showed. students were beaten for demanding the implementation of the agreement. they did not erect barricades, they actually just walked en masse to the city centre. i was there. that only radicalized albanians further. when finally the deal was carried out, all uni buildings had their windows smashed, walls vandalized and tables broken. this was done, not by the police sadly, but by ordinary Serb students who had taken over to try and stop the deal from going through. no my friend, it wasn't that the albanians were hungry for war. after all, what army could face the arsenal of Serbia, which, included tanks, planes, APC's and the rest? Serbia's own policies gave the KLA the impetus.
No aaayyy it really makes no difference whatsoever. What do you think Serbia is saying in these talks that it has already had with the Albanians? I can't talk to you because Brazil doesn't recognize you? The recognition is merely an act of symbolism. Its basically what Serbia is doing now. In theory it does not recognize the new country. In practice it has. How? Very simple. It has removed the 1.8 million Albanians from the Serbian electoral roll. What does this mean? It either envisages taking the territory by force and then expelling all Albanians, or it has recognized that Kosovo is a lost cause. It has erected a trade ban. Only countries can erect trade bans against each other. No country refuses to trade with its own province. Last. It says it does not acknowledge the independence, yet it has engaged in conversation with people who are signatories to the declaration of independence and as such, given them political legitimacy. Of course no government will ever say Kosovo is lost, as that is such an obvious vote loser. However, the most rational Serb can see past such stances. The other factor to consider is the economic sacrifice Serbia is making to disrupt Kosovo. It is costing it to the tune one 16 EURO's per second. What is the return on that? Negative. Don't worry, while many Serbs will long and hard protest that Kosovo is still part of Serbia, the others accept the reality
This solves nothing and will only result in more barricades going up further down the road, they'll be wearing gas masks this time
(New Zealander, 20 October 2011 09:53)
Ooh but it has put a good question on Tadic's table.
http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/Aki/English/Security/Kosovo-Serbs-demand-withdrawal-of-EU-mission-return-of-Serb-forces_312556554100.html
John Massey there is a difference, you have attempted to defeat my point, I have not contradicted myself. You are implying that Belgrade should held to a higher standard than Pristina.
I am saying that the internationals don't have an emotional stake in the Kosovo 'conflict'. For that reason and for the fact that they talk of human rights they should be held to that higher standard.
Riot troops and tear gas are usually deployed against rioters / terrorists. This is as much an embarassment for the internationals to behave like this as anything else.
Out of the question, these borders were not drawn by Albanians, it was drwan by the jugoslavs, Kosova's borders will remain intact and looks like KFOR will make sure Kosova's territorial integrity is respected.
(Skifteri, 21 October 2011 00:20)
--
You are correct, the borders of KiM will not change and while the Yugoslavs were drawing those borders, KiM was delegated a province of Serbia. Now that will not change. The West in the Balkans will be history soon enough so no need to convince anyone.
@ The reality in the ground is this, Belgrade does not run Kosovo.
(adriatik, 20 October 2011 22:44)
Right - does not advance our knowledge substantially, I am afraid. Anyway, the territory momentary under the provisions of UN WSCR 1244 has "former" warlords on top of the institutions in its population center, who would sit in most of the countries where rule of law has been established already in detention - because there are investigation proceedings against them underway for most severe crimes and supporting evidence is multitudinously according to analyst quoted in reputale international media. Grounds for taking them in custody would be danger of suppression of evidence. Would you agree?
The agencies authorised to take the necessary steps to detain the suspects have failed to do so. Taking into account and considering the full spectrum of internationally recognized civil rights and human rights standards it is fully justified and legitimate if people take to the streets - even if that limits freedom of movement. In countries where the rule of law has been established already you call that balancing of legally protected interests.
KFOR is acting on command and not to blame for what is happening. However and so far as I can see it, EULEX failed to balance the legally protected interest in several aspects of the current crisis.
It MAKES difference how many countries have recognized Kosovo. For example Russia, China, Brasil haven't recognized Kosovo and it means that situation could be changed in the future.
(aaayyy, 21 October 2011 22:00)
Sure the situation in Russia, China and Brasil can change in the future. Not sure what that has to do with Kosovo. The last time I checked the map, Kosovo was still in Europe, not Asia or Latin America.
The reality in the ground is that Belgrade has got close ties with Kosovo North, all Albanian nationalists complain about it.
(aaayyy, 21 October 2011 22:00)
Who cares what some Albanian nationalist complain or not ? Serb citizen of Kosovo have the right to do that under Kosovo's Constitution the same way that Albanians have the right to do the same with Albania; the same way that, say, the Hewbrew community in New York does with Israel.
And Kosovo's Constitution cannot change without K. Serbs consent, regardless of what the Albanians think.
I really do not wish to ruin whatever camaraderie has been established between us. We both are probably more Londoners than either Albanians or Serb. If you truly believe that Kosovar Albanians had no reason to feel aggrieved, then you are deluded. Read various human rights reports, various history books that were not written by serbs or albanians. no my friend, there were actual reasons why people felt occupied.
balkanbert
You really are trying to make it sound that this is simply a reaction to Thaci. It isn't. If those at the barricades were saying they do not want Thaci's cronies up there I may have grounds to believe you, what they are asking for is the removal of ETHNIC Albanian policeman. key word there being ethnic.
To talk about KFOR and Albanian police leaving Kosovo North.
(aaayyy, 20 October 2011 21:55)
_____________________
Out of the question, these borders were not drawn by Albanians, it was drwan by the jugoslavs, Kosova's borders will remain intact and looks like KFOR will make sure Kosova's territorial integrity is respected.
Its not the Albanians the serbs need to convince for land swap, its the west.
Since they (west) have ruled out exchange of territoty than there is nothing K-serbs can do but watch KFOR extend Kosova's rule to the north by removing the barricades.
kosovo serbs they are been played by Serb political parties from Belgrade and in the end kosovo serbs will be left on they on , kosovo is a whole, borders will not change deal with it .
I can`t beleive serbs asked for people to control KFOR and let them through , who do they think they are ?
if the serbs from all over the world who left the mother country and preach from the luxury and freedoms of western living and invest your time in action and not words... I advocate an idea, you should all fly to north kosova and sit and protest with with your fellow brethren and have a couple of millions serbs from all over the world prtesting at the check points or send $100 each for support , thats leverage and then you would achieve your dreams. Stop wasting time talking act.... Act now!
In the eu there are no borders so whats the point
Do people understand interconnected economies. You think this financial crisis that the West is experiencing now wont have ramifications in China? Even if doesn't, you people seriously believe a union between the Orthodox Balkans will ever happen? Lets Greece has designs on Macedonia, as does Bulgaria and they're both Orthodox. Honestly you people are still stuck in the Ottoman Empire mode. Turkey, for all its faults, is a far stronger country, both economically and militarily than Greece. Both are part of NATO, currently the strongest military alliance in the world. Stop reading the Orthodox gazette because it has filled your heads with unrealistic scenarios
My impression of you is that you have an image of what Serbia should be. Allow me to tell, it'll never happen. What you can do is dream about it, as you blatenly are
The financial crises in the west is benefiting the Orthodox Brotherhood as it is brining forward something that would have taken 30 years to achieve. The only western countries not on the watch list are Germany, Canada and Australia – that’s it baby. The US is currently 47 trillion dollars up the proverbial creek and this one was even mentioned recently in the US on Fox of all TV channels.
You really need to stop reading fairytales as this financial crises is far more dangerous than anything so far in western histrory.
(sj, 21 October 2011 03:24)
SJ
Your comments are full of decorations and beautifications with intelectual terminology, but they lack two main elements which are: logic and common sense.
Even if I take that your comment about EU and US are in brink of financial collapse and the future is in Russia and China is true, did you consider your personal future in those two countries? I mean if I were you and if convinced on sincerity of my comments, I would move my savings to one of those two countries that I considered prosperous and go to live over there. Only when I put my foot either in China or Russia, then I would post comments like this advising people to stop reading fairytales and do what I did.
Otherwise, since 2007 your comments were mostly similar, while you keep contradicting yourself over and over and not being honest. Are you stupid? Of course not, you just have not been honest in your comment. Otherwise, if you were convinced that what you say will happen, you would do exactly what I said above.
I've had enough of these "peace" keepers in Kosovo.
I think we should all turn against them and remove them from Kosovo altogether.
The only problem with this? The K.Albanians are being favoured and do not want to see them disappear because they can't stand on their own two feet nor can they make compromise or negotiate reasonably.
I think the only solution now is ww3 OR a new treaty organisation is made and it can 'counter' the injustices caused around the world by NATO!
We call know how much destruction & bloodshed is caused by NATO yet there is no group powerful enough to stop it. With the rise of the people and the fall of regimes around the world, a new treaty should be made that combats brute force and doesn't allow NATO to conduct drone bombings & play with their guns like toys.
The new treat could enter Kosovo, stop any tear gas & rubber bullets being fired by KFOR & make sure that no side is favoured. The Albanians and the Serbians should be the ones to decide as they are the ones with the history in Kosovo and NOT Germany or the US.
Is anyone ready to make an alliance that counters NATOs illegal use of force?
Adriatik-passive resistance to what? Nothing, that's what. They just didn't start violently agitiating for trouble until later. Just your common garden variety troublemakers Im afraid with a cause. Irridentists and separatists. Macedonia next up would be my guess.
I personally don't know if Serbia is interested in keeping Presheva, but your comment assumes that Serbia and "Kosovo" have the same status, while it is far from it. Most countries haven't recognized self-proclaimed Kosovo state.
(aaayyy, 20 October 2011 21:49)
Most countries have not recognized Kosovo as part of Serbia either. In any case, that's irrelevant. Whatever the status of Kosovo it does not change the fact that Serbia and Kosovo can swap territories, if they so agree.
(icj1, 21 October 2011 03:41)
What do you mean by "Most countries have not recognized Kosovo as part of Serbia"? The countries which haven't said anything, recognized Kosovo as part of Serbia by defaulf. Do you know what "by default" means?
If a region declared its independence, the silence from the other countries means they didn't recognize it. To make it easier for you to understand, say, I declared independence of a site around my country house an independent state and, can you imagine, no country has said so far it hasn't recognized it. Does it mean that the whole world recognized my newly created state? Options for you to answer:
It makes absolutely ZERO difference how many countries have recognized Kosovo. The reality in the ground is this, Belgrade does not run Kosovo.
(adriatik, 20 October 2011 22:44)
It MAKES difference how many countries have recognized Kosovo. For example Russia, China, Brasil haven't recognized Kosovo and it means that situation could be changed in the future.
The reality in the ground is that Belgrade has got close ties with Kosovo North, all Albanian nationalists complain about it.
@You really are trying to make it sound that this is simply a reaction to Thaci. It isn't. If those at the barricades were saying they do not want Thaci's cronies up there I may have grounds to believe you, what they are asking for is the removal of ETHNIC Albanian policeman. key word there being ethnic.
(adriatik, 22 October 2011 10:37)
Sorry, adriatik - I was not aware you are still present in this thread.
That is why I did not respond to your explanation of the background of your own humilations, suffering, grievances - and the reason for the appearance of armed resistance ( as far as UCK fighters are concerned: it needs to be seen in how far they committed crimes and in particular crimes against humanity. For all others applies: it needs to be established whether or not they terminated their "career" in the organisation when thge UCK allegedly was disbanded. But that is another quite strange story).
I agree that all the harm and distress from the 90ies is not supposed to be forgotten - I do not. Anyway, it can explain a lot. But: I suppose you agree that crimes committed in the 90ies or whenever can never JUSTIFY crimes committed later on and until today.
Still there is a strong suspicion which is according to analysts supported by ahigh degree of hard evidence that the institutions in Pristina are not only corrupt but largely under the control of the organised crime. That again suggests that all officials sent by the strongman in Pristina are under the suspicion as well to be loyal to the warlord and alleged "big fish" in organised crime.
Therefore and as long a Kosovo Albanians do not free themselves of the corrupt and probably criminal regime they isolate themselves - and cannot expect that officials from their ethic community are welcome in North Kosovo. Last point: Negotiations just gained momentum when the known unilateral step stirred up trouble - the step was accompanied by Thaci´s threat to send his "judges" to the Nort of river Ibar (KFOR emphasised concern about - thus receiving the announcement as provocation). The usual and internationally to a far extend agreed procedure after such unilateral and provocative steps: Return to status ante and sit together to negotiate. That might make you and others increasingly impatient. Sorry - there is no alternative if you want to come peacefully to a sustainable solution.
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