New “demarcation lines in Kosovo” necessary

Kind of late for that, had anyone even the indicted late war criminal Milosevic proposed such solution in the 90's, we propably wouldnt had this problem today.

(Makeitso, 16 October 2011 12:51)

how many times you want repeat the same? the occupy people are protesting against rising high unemployment, decline in standard of living, increased cost of living and against the banking elites this has nothing to do with serbia/serbs or the balkans.

Milosevic was indicted. But legally he is not a war criminal as he was never found guilty by the Hague.
(lowe, 16 October 2011 13:58) Hitler wasn't indited either of war crimes go figure either the butcher Stalin of 10s of millions etc.

The window of opportunity for negotiations is just about closed. The Albanians lost their best chance for lasting peace. The fact that Serbs are rising in harmony with the rest of the world is no co-incidence. The machine is still strong, yes, but the theme of the Occupy Movement is "I am not moving". Strength through unity and united we stand. The people against the hypocrites. The people against greed.

Stay strong freedom lovers. The spark, the flame and soon the fire. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_niEy74SKcg

The greed in attempting to take the north is the bone that chokes them.

The Kosovo Albanians I've been dealing with about the Kosovo question always wanted to make one thing clear: Albanians have never wanted to live as a part of Yugoslavia/Serbia. Kosovo being a part of Yugoslavia/Serbia was historical wrong that had to be corrected, sooner or later. Should I understand that their opinion is/was an opinion of a radical minority?
(Olli, 16 October 2011 15:32)

Forget Pejoni, he is bit confused or perhaps Yugo nostalgic.

Albanians are Illyrian descends they are not Slavs thus should NEVER be part of the Jugo=South-Slavia=Slavs.

Jugo was the state of the southern Slavs. Albanians are not Slav- thus had not interest in being part of that state - they were simply invaded and forced to be part of that state.

"Kind of late for that, had anyone even the indicted late war criminal Milosevic proposed such solution in the 90's, we propably wouldnt had this problem today.
(Pejoni, 16 October 2011 13:13) "

Milosevic was indicted. But legally he is not a war criminal as he was never found guilty by the Hague.

No autonomy for Serbs in northern Kosovo besides plan (Ahtisaari)....... otherwise try to Kosovo with tanks and go away not only to Gjakove but slightly above the (Qaf Morina)or go away in Tropoja (Albanien) !

what kind of a country it would be if Podujevo or Đakovica were considered to be integral parts of Serbia but we needed tanks to enter them,” Dačić asked.


I say you definitely need flying sources to reach Gjakova/Djakovica. What a moron!
Using tanks will not even cross Jarinje or Burnjak, let alone Gjakova, which is to far away.

Pejoni,

You say: "...had anyone proposed such solution in the 90's, we propably wouldnt had this problem today".

Could you little elaborate on this?

The Kosovo Albanians I've been dealing with about the Kosovo question always wanted to make one thing clear: Albanians have never wanted to live as a part of Yugoslavia/Serbia. Kosovo being a part of Yugoslavia/Serbia was historical wrong that had to be corrected, sooner or later. Should I understand that their opinion is/was an opinion of a radical minority?

Wow, the worst case scenario right now would be an autonomous northern Kosovo? That's fantastic since it's far better than what was given in 2008! Not that Dacic would have any problems using tanks to get other parts of Kosovo. VS could be in Pristina in 48 hours. Prizren in 72. Albanians have proven they don't put up a resistance for long. But let's not talk about war and what Serbia would need if it wanted to take Kosovo back. That's for the Albanian keyboard warriors of the diaspora to think about. All Serbia needs is for Kosovo to get a visa-free travel and more than 500,000 Albanians will leave in the first year for someplace better. Look at all the diasporas here. They seem pretty happy where they're living in the West writing about what other people would do to defend a land they don't live in and probably have never been to :)

(Olli, 16 October 2011 15:32)

I was referring to a new border line, the northern part. Of course Prishtina would then be asking for Presheva valley, simply a recognition alone from Belgrade wouldnt be enough without including exchange of land. Now if Prishtina and Belgrade would come to an agreement, I dont see how this would be a problem for the region, if not then its not much anyone alone can do and this will continue being a headache for both our ppl.

how many times you want repeat the same? the occupy people are protesting against rising high unemployment, decline in standard of living, increased cost of living and against the banking elites this has nothing to do with serbia/serbs or the balkans.
(stasi, 16 October 2011 14:58)

that doesn't matter; if there is anything that some people here perceive (whether correct or not) as a difficulty for the West, then they immediately start glorifying, as if that helps Serbia! They think Serbia is Africa, and not West – they still live with memories of past battles instead of looking forward like the majority of Serbia does.

Imagine that some people in these forums were hoping that Ghadaffi slaughtered the Libyan population that rose against him, just because the latter had West as an ally.

Some people here would love to see the West in difficulty even if that means shooting themselves in the foot :) This is the primitive Balkan mentality that has made the region the Europe’s black hole – i.e. trying to make the others worse rather than trying to make the Balkans better.

Wow, the worst case scenario right now would be an autonomous northern Kosovo? That's fantastic since it's far better than what was given in 2008! Not that Dacic would have any problems using tanks to get other parts of Kosovo. VS could be in Pristina in 48 hours. Prizren in 72. Albanians have proven they don't put up a resistance for long. But let's not talk about war and what Serbia would need if it wanted to take Kosovo back. That's for the Albanian keyboard warriors of the diaspora to think about. All Serbia needs is for Kosovo to get a visa-free travel and more than 500,000 Albanians will leave in the first year for someplace better. Look at all the diasporas here. They seem pretty happy where they're living in the West writing about what other people would do to defend a land they don't live in and probably have never been to :)
(Balkan Anthropologist, 16 October 2011 20:15)
Maybe you have not noticed that 90% of the people on here that are bragging about the tanks rolling into Kosovo etc are actually Serbs that have abandoned the homeland for a better life and want the ones left behind to risk everything to so that the diasporia can proudly stand up and say "We are Serb"

So the tanks start rolling towards Kosovo, what kind of life is left for the Serbs that remain after the war? I also like how you initiate the thumping of the chest and then try to portray it is the Albanians that are warmongers. Maybe some self reflection is in order.

"only thing we can get next is that four municipalities in northern Kosovo have some sort of autonomy within Kosovo".

Why should be that a solution since it hasn't worked in Bosnia with Republika Serbska and there seem to be no problem with Serbs living in Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro or Macedonia or even in other parts of Kosovo.

Or is it how much money Serbian politicians are talking about so they can sell off Serbs of North Mitrovica because so far it has been that way.

do you know the difference between ethnicity/nationality and religion? religion:a particular system of faith and worship. nationality : distinctive national or ethnic character. is this the kind of stupid arguments people employ to say that only an albanian muslim is an albanian and a christian albanian cannot be an albanian?

the occupy people are protesting against rising high unemployment, decline in standard of living, increased cost of living and against the banking elites this has nothing to do with serbia/serbs or the balkans.
(stasi, 16 October 2011 14:58)

LOL!!! So foreign invasions and occupations are helping to raise living standards in the US while flushing much needed funds into the Kosovo black hole is achieving what exactly?

Yes, Americans and Europeans don't care so much about the Balkans and other parts of the world but their leaders continue to waste trillions on causing instability around the world. Enough is enough and time to resist the hypocrites.

Sit back and watch.

Pejoni,

You say: "...had anyone proposed such solution in the 90's, we propably wouldnt had this problem today".

Could you little elaborate on this?

The Kosovo Albanians I've been dealing with about the Kosovo question always wanted to make one thing clear: Albanians have never wanted to live as a part of Yugoslavia/Serbia. Kosovo being a part of Yugoslavia/Serbia was historical wrong that had to be corrected, sooner or later. Should I understand that their opinion is/was an opinion of a radical minority?
(Olli, 16 October 2011 15:32)
You are correct that most K-Albanians were happy in Titos Yugoslavia after 1974 and with a further step of naming them republic as only thing different was the name would have avoided a huge back lash of 1990s. Yugoslavia had it's issues but biggest was Serbs as did then they do now want special treatment.

"only thing we can get next is that four municipalities in northern Kosovo have some sort of autonomy within Kosovo".

Why should be that a solution since it hasn't worked in Bosnia with Republika Serbska and there seem to be no problem with Serbs living in Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro or Macedonia or even in other parts of Kosovo.

Or is it how much money Serbian politicians are talking about so they can sell off Serbs of North Mitrovica because so far it has been that way.
(n n zeka, 16 October 2011 17:28)


n n zeka,

Aren't you comparing apples to oranges. The Serbs living in Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro or Macedonia or even in other parts of Kosovo are not in their own autonomous region the way they are in Republica Srpska. An autonomous region for Serbs in Kosova would end up with similar problems as Bosnia, hence no autonomy for Serbs anywhere in Kosova. Serbs will just have to get used to being "mainstreamed" or they can choose to be mainstreamed somewhere else. Sorry, but Albanians don't wish to repeat others mistakes.

I do agree though, Kosova Serbs have been sold out by Belgrade politicians.

I was referring to a new border line, the northern part. Of course Prishtina would then be asking for Presheva valley, simply a recognition alone from Belgrade wouldnt be enough without including exchange of land. Now if Prishtina and Belgrade would come to an agreement, I dont see how this would be a problem for the region, if not then its not much anyone alone can do and this will continue being a headache for both our ppl.
(Pejoni, 16 October 2011 17:59)


Hey Pejoni, yeah good idea, the Albanians can have presevo valley as there are currently 7 billion Albanians living there.. just like Pristina had supposedly 600 000 people, it apparently has 190 000 if that... kosovo would be lucky to have 1 million people let alone 2.5 as you guys claim..

here are some stats

Albania 28,748 km2 with a population of 3 million
Macedonia 25,713 km2 with a population of 2 million(not even mind you)
kosovo 10,908 km2 apparent population 1.7 million

How do the above states work.. me reckons the Serbs should claime that there are a millio serbs in kosovo and claim it back..

Lets face it, one constant in the Albanian mentality is that of lying to further ones goals..

Im Maedonia, Albanians wanted to use photo copies of people live and dead in the last census, how many Albs in the Balkans have Albanian, kosovo, Macedonian citenship..

You guys are greatly exagerating the figures, hence Prishtina will never get there hands on Presevo..

And for the constant whining about expat slaves, trust me there are mor expat slaves from former yugo than the Albanians..

I just understand why you guys are so cocky, you guys overachieved hence be quite and make a compromise... and for the illyrian claims, i bet more than half of you guys have slavic and turkic blood..

Looking forward to the Albanians census... In kosovo and macedonia Albanians are 99% muslim, yet in Albania the population is made up of %30 christians, 20% orthodox and %10 catholic..

These figures just are not in a logical manner, also apparently there is 1 million Albanians working in greece, do we count them twice? in Albanian and greece..

No double dipping guys... we know all your tricks, just a matter of time the before the house of cards in blown away!

Leviska Sofai...do you know that there are Christian Albanians in the world? Is that what you meant when you said Albania has a 30% non-Albanian population? Did you mean to say it has a 30% Christina population, which is something else entirely?

As for those who believe Serbia will take Kosovo back with tanks, yeah sure. Oh look there's spider man!!

"Hitler wasn't indited either of war crimes go figure either the butcher Stalin of 10s of millions etc.
(Lenard, 16 October 2011 20:40)"

So Hitler and Stalin are legally innocent. As innocent in the eyes of the law as Tudjman and Jack the Ripper. So what's your point?

Leviska Sofai...do you know that there are Christian Albanians in the world? Is that what you meant when you said Albania has a 30% non-Albanian population? Did you mean to say it has a 30% Christina population, which is something else entirely?

30% christian hence non albanians.. as per kosovo and maco

"I think his point was that, legally, Milosevic was worse than Stalin and Hitler, because for Milosevic the court decided that probable cause existed that he committed some crimes; nobody found even probable cause in the case of Stalin and Hitler that they committed any crime.
(icj1, 18 October 2011 04:35)"

Well, if that was indeed his point, then I think he is wrong. How can Milosevic be LEGALLY worse than Stalin and Hitler when none of them were convicted by the courts? At the most he or you can give personal opinions, I can accept that, but I don't think either of you should presume yourselves to be qualified to speak on behalf of the courts.

Olli-and you really think Serbs wanted Albanians to invade Kosovo and destroy it's heritage. If you think the Albanians have somehow been hard done by, you are more stupid than I thought.

icj-your attempts at legal jiggery pokery are becoming more ridiculous by the day. Let me get this right. Milosevic is worse than Hitler or Stalin because the court established probable cause. This is spurious beyond belief. No judgement was passed so nothing was established at all. On the contrary, many observers believed the case against Milosevic was weak from the start, and would likely have failed. And believe me, I was no fan of Milosevic.

@stasi
What the rule of the banksters and the rule of Thaci have in common is that both deprive people of their basic rights.
BTW: what is this "stasi" all about. German "Stasi" (DDR Securitate) was only dreaming of a grip on the society as steely as the organized crime big shots and war criminals in Pristina have got it:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/07/world/europe/death-of-war-crimes-witness-casts-cloud-on-kosovo.html?_r=1

Wally,

You write: "[...] you really think Serbs wanted Albanians to invade Kosovo and destroy it's heritage. If you think the Albanians have somehow been hard done by, you are more stupid than I thought."

Wally, not minding the level of my stupidity in your thinking it's pretty amusing to read and hear both Serbs and Albanians accusing each others of invading Kosovo. And when looking into it from another angle, it's pretty tragic, too. Both people consider themselves as a kind of aboriginals...

No, neither you nor an Albanian need to lecture me about Kosovo's history. I know what you both know. The point is that neither of you people have had skill, wisdom, intelligence nor endurance to solve the problem. And of this fact you only accuse the opponent, yourself acting in the role of a righteous claimer of lands, facts and rights. Because apparent lack of any sincere self-reflection among both sides of the conflict you'll never have ability to reach solution.

When Serbian parliament in early 1920's discussed the Kosovo problem, what to do with it, a couple of years after Kosovo Albanians had in 1921 requested the League of Nations to take actions to unite Kosovo with Albania, a Serbian member of parliament said that Serbia will suffer a heavy toll if Kosovo inhabitants are not granted same citizen rights as other Serbian citizens had, as was the situation at that day. Nothing was done to this.

As primitive was the program that Albanians followed. Even today they speak of the impossibility for Albanians, a non-slavic people, to live in a slavic majority state. And then they wonder why Kosovo's Serbs will not find it good to live in the state of Kosovo.

Please, people, could you add a bit of thinking to your everyday life?

"Well, the Court has alredy spoken; it did issue an indictement for Milosevic because the Court was satisfied that the prosecution had established a prima facie case(sorry for being now too technical) that Milosevic committed the crimes he was accused for.
(icj1, 19 October 2011 04:34)"



The courts have spoken BUT THEY HAVE NOT SAID THAT HE IS GUILTY. Indictments are not guilt in the eyes of the law. Neither does your "prima facie case" amount to guilt. As long as a person has not been found guilty by the courts, he/she remains legally innocent -- there's no such thing as the courts finding a person "probably guilty" (except perhaps in your own la la land). An accused is either legally guilty or innocent -- there are no ifs or buts or halfway gray areas -- legally he is either guilty or innocent as in black or white -- and if he has never been convicted, he remains innocent in the eyes of the law -- as in Milosevic's case, thereby making him legally no worse off than Stalin, Hitler etc.

So Hitler and Stalin are legally innocent. As innocent in the eyes of the law as Tudjman and Jack the Ripper. So what's your point?
(lowe, 17 October 2011 04:10)

I think his point was that, legally, Milosevic was worse than Stalin and Hitler, because for Milosevic the court decided that probable cause existed that he committed some crimes; nobody found even probable cause in the case of Stalin and Hitler that they committed any crime.

icj-your attempts at legal jiggery pokery are becoming more ridiculous by the day. Let me get this right. Milosevic is worse than Hitler or Stalin because the court established probable cause. This is spurious beyond belief. No judgement was passed so nothing was established at all. On the contrary, many observers believed the case against Milosevic was weak from the start, and would likely have failed. And believe me, I was no fan of Milosevic.
(Wally, 18 October 2011 13:05)

I don't care whose fan you are. But, I think you have no idea what you are speaking about. Go and read a criminal law procedure 101 book and you'll understand.

Probabable cause is the standard of proof that the prosecution has to establish in order for the court to issue an indictement. And the court did find a probable cause for Milosevic and did issue an indictement.

For a judgement of guilty, the standard of proof is higher; the prosecution has to establish beyond reasonable doubt (not just probable cause) that the accused committed the crimes. And there was no judgement in Milosevic's case.

Well, if that was indeed his point, then I think he is wrong. How can Milosevic be LEGALLY worse than Stalin and Hitler when none of them were convicted by the courts? At the most he or you can give personal opinions, I can accept that, but I don't think either of you should presume yourselves to be qualified to speak on behalf of the courts.
(lowe, 18 October 2011 14:51)

Well, the Court has alredy spoken; it did issue an indictement for Milosevic because the Court was satisfied that the prosecution had established a prima facie case(sorry for being now too technical) that Milosevic committed the crimes he was accused for.

The window of opportunity for negotiations is just about closed. The Albanians lost their best chance for lasting peace. The fact that Serbs are rising in harmony with the rest of the world is no co-incidence. The machine is still strong, yes, but the theme of the Occupy Movement is "I am not moving". Strength through unity and united we stand. The people against the hypocrites. The people against greed.

Stay strong freedom lovers. The spark, the flame and soon the fire. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_niEy74SKcg

The greed in attempting to take the north is the bone that chokes them.

"Kind of late for that, had anyone even the indicted late war criminal Milosevic proposed such solution in the 90's, we propably wouldnt had this problem today.
(Pejoni, 16 October 2011 13:13) "

Milosevic was indicted. But legally he is not a war criminal as he was never found guilty by the Hague.

No autonomy for Serbs in northern Kosovo besides plan (Ahtisaari)....... otherwise try to Kosovo with tanks and go away not only to Gjakove but slightly above the (Qaf Morina)or go away in Tropoja (Albanien) !

Kind of late for that, had anyone even the indicted late war criminal Milosevic proposed such solution in the 90's, we propably wouldnt had this problem today.

The Kosovo Albanians I've been dealing with about the Kosovo question always wanted to make one thing clear: Albanians have never wanted to live as a part of Yugoslavia/Serbia. Kosovo being a part of Yugoslavia/Serbia was historical wrong that had to be corrected, sooner or later. Should I understand that their opinion is/was an opinion of a radical minority?
(Olli, 16 October 2011 15:32)

Forget Pejoni, he is bit confused or perhaps Yugo nostalgic.

Albanians are Illyrian descends they are not Slavs thus should NEVER be part of the Jugo=South-Slavia=Slavs.

Jugo was the state of the southern Slavs. Albanians are not Slav- thus had not interest in being part of that state - they were simply invaded and forced to be part of that state.

what kind of a country it would be if Podujevo or Đakovica were considered to be integral parts of Serbia but we needed tanks to enter them,” Dačić asked.


I say you definitely need flying sources to reach Gjakova/Djakovica. What a moron!
Using tanks will not even cross Jarinje or Burnjak, let alone Gjakova, which is to far away.

Leviska Sofai...do you know that there are Christian Albanians in the world? Is that what you meant when you said Albania has a 30% non-Albanian population? Did you mean to say it has a 30% Christina population, which is something else entirely?

30% christian hence non albanians.. as per kosovo and maco

Wow, the worst case scenario right now would be an autonomous northern Kosovo? That's fantastic since it's far better than what was given in 2008! Not that Dacic would have any problems using tanks to get other parts of Kosovo. VS could be in Pristina in 48 hours. Prizren in 72. Albanians have proven they don't put up a resistance for long. But let's not talk about war and what Serbia would need if it wanted to take Kosovo back. That's for the Albanian keyboard warriors of the diaspora to think about. All Serbia needs is for Kosovo to get a visa-free travel and more than 500,000 Albanians will leave in the first year for someplace better. Look at all the diasporas here. They seem pretty happy where they're living in the West writing about what other people would do to defend a land they don't live in and probably have never been to :)

Pejoni,

You say: "...had anyone proposed such solution in the 90's, we propably wouldnt had this problem today".

Could you little elaborate on this?

The Kosovo Albanians I've been dealing with about the Kosovo question always wanted to make one thing clear: Albanians have never wanted to live as a part of Yugoslavia/Serbia. Kosovo being a part of Yugoslavia/Serbia was historical wrong that had to be corrected, sooner or later. Should I understand that their opinion is/was an opinion of a radical minority?

"only thing we can get next is that four municipalities in northern Kosovo have some sort of autonomy within Kosovo".

Why should be that a solution since it hasn't worked in Bosnia with Republika Serbska and there seem to be no problem with Serbs living in Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro or Macedonia or even in other parts of Kosovo.

Or is it how much money Serbian politicians are talking about so they can sell off Serbs of North Mitrovica because so far it has been that way.
(n n zeka, 16 October 2011 17:28)


n n zeka,

Aren't you comparing apples to oranges. The Serbs living in Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro or Macedonia or even in other parts of Kosovo are not in their own autonomous region the way they are in Republica Srpska. An autonomous region for Serbs in Kosova would end up with similar problems as Bosnia, hence no autonomy for Serbs anywhere in Kosova. Serbs will just have to get used to being "mainstreamed" or they can choose to be mainstreamed somewhere else. Sorry, but Albanians don't wish to repeat others mistakes.

I do agree though, Kosova Serbs have been sold out by Belgrade politicians.

Olli-and you really think Serbs wanted Albanians to invade Kosovo and destroy it's heritage. If you think the Albanians have somehow been hard done by, you are more stupid than I thought.

"Hitler wasn't indited either of war crimes go figure either the butcher Stalin of 10s of millions etc.
(Lenard, 16 October 2011 20:40)"

So Hitler and Stalin are legally innocent. As innocent in the eyes of the law as Tudjman and Jack the Ripper. So what's your point?

(Makeitso, 16 October 2011 12:51)

how many times you want repeat the same? the occupy people are protesting against rising high unemployment, decline in standard of living, increased cost of living and against the banking elites this has nothing to do with serbia/serbs or the balkans.

@stasi
What the rule of the banksters and the rule of Thaci have in common is that both deprive people of their basic rights.
BTW: what is this "stasi" all about. German "Stasi" (DDR Securitate) was only dreaming of a grip on the society as steely as the organized crime big shots and war criminals in Pristina have got it:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/07/world/europe/death-of-war-crimes-witness-casts-cloud-on-kosovo.html?_r=1

I was referring to a new border line, the northern part. Of course Prishtina would then be asking for Presheva valley, simply a recognition alone from Belgrade wouldnt be enough without including exchange of land. Now if Prishtina and Belgrade would come to an agreement, I dont see how this would be a problem for the region, if not then its not much anyone alone can do and this will continue being a headache for both our ppl.
(Pejoni, 16 October 2011 17:59)


Hey Pejoni, yeah good idea, the Albanians can have presevo valley as there are currently 7 billion Albanians living there.. just like Pristina had supposedly 600 000 people, it apparently has 190 000 if that... kosovo would be lucky to have 1 million people let alone 2.5 as you guys claim..

here are some stats

Albania 28,748 km2 with a population of 3 million
Macedonia 25,713 km2 with a population of 2 million(not even mind you)
kosovo 10,908 km2 apparent population 1.7 million

How do the above states work.. me reckons the Serbs should claime that there are a millio serbs in kosovo and claim it back..

Lets face it, one constant in the Albanian mentality is that of lying to further ones goals..

Im Maedonia, Albanians wanted to use photo copies of people live and dead in the last census, how many Albs in the Balkans have Albanian, kosovo, Macedonian citenship..

You guys are greatly exagerating the figures, hence Prishtina will never get there hands on Presevo..

And for the constant whining about expat slaves, trust me there are mor expat slaves from former yugo than the Albanians..

I just understand why you guys are so cocky, you guys overachieved hence be quite and make a compromise... and for the illyrian claims, i bet more than half of you guys have slavic and turkic blood..

Looking forward to the Albanians census... In kosovo and macedonia Albanians are 99% muslim, yet in Albania the population is made up of %30 christians, 20% orthodox and %10 catholic..

These figures just are not in a logical manner, also apparently there is 1 million Albanians working in greece, do we count them twice? in Albanian and greece..

No double dipping guys... we know all your tricks, just a matter of time the before the house of cards in blown away!

how many times you want repeat the same? the occupy people are protesting against rising high unemployment, decline in standard of living, increased cost of living and against the banking elites this has nothing to do with serbia/serbs or the balkans.
(stasi, 16 October 2011 14:58)

that doesn't matter; if there is anything that some people here perceive (whether correct or not) as a difficulty for the West, then they immediately start glorifying, as if that helps Serbia! They think Serbia is Africa, and not West – they still live with memories of past battles instead of looking forward like the majority of Serbia does.

Imagine that some people in these forums were hoping that Ghadaffi slaughtered the Libyan population that rose against him, just because the latter had West as an ally.

Some people here would love to see the West in difficulty even if that means shooting themselves in the foot :) This is the primitive Balkan mentality that has made the region the Europe’s black hole – i.e. trying to make the others worse rather than trying to make the Balkans better.

the occupy people are protesting against rising high unemployment, decline in standard of living, increased cost of living and against the banking elites this has nothing to do with serbia/serbs or the balkans.
(stasi, 16 October 2011 14:58)

LOL!!! So foreign invasions and occupations are helping to raise living standards in the US while flushing much needed funds into the Kosovo black hole is achieving what exactly?

Yes, Americans and Europeans don't care so much about the Balkans and other parts of the world but their leaders continue to waste trillions on causing instability around the world. Enough is enough and time to resist the hypocrites.

Sit back and watch.

(Olli, 16 October 2011 15:32)

I was referring to a new border line, the northern part. Of course Prishtina would then be asking for Presheva valley, simply a recognition alone from Belgrade wouldnt be enough without including exchange of land. Now if Prishtina and Belgrade would come to an agreement, I dont see how this would be a problem for the region, if not then its not much anyone alone can do and this will continue being a headache for both our ppl.

Pejoni,

You say: "...had anyone proposed such solution in the 90's, we propably wouldnt had this problem today".

Could you little elaborate on this?

The Kosovo Albanians I've been dealing with about the Kosovo question always wanted to make one thing clear: Albanians have never wanted to live as a part of Yugoslavia/Serbia. Kosovo being a part of Yugoslavia/Serbia was historical wrong that had to be corrected, sooner or later. Should I understand that their opinion is/was an opinion of a radical minority?
(Olli, 16 October 2011 15:32)
You are correct that most K-Albanians were happy in Titos Yugoslavia after 1974 and with a further step of naming them republic as only thing different was the name would have avoided a huge back lash of 1990s. Yugoslavia had it's issues but biggest was Serbs as did then they do now want special treatment.

Wally,

You write: "[...] you really think Serbs wanted Albanians to invade Kosovo and destroy it's heritage. If you think the Albanians have somehow been hard done by, you are more stupid than I thought."

Wally, not minding the level of my stupidity in your thinking it's pretty amusing to read and hear both Serbs and Albanians accusing each others of invading Kosovo. And when looking into it from another angle, it's pretty tragic, too. Both people consider themselves as a kind of aboriginals...

No, neither you nor an Albanian need to lecture me about Kosovo's history. I know what you both know. The point is that neither of you people have had skill, wisdom, intelligence nor endurance to solve the problem. And of this fact you only accuse the opponent, yourself acting in the role of a righteous claimer of lands, facts and rights. Because apparent lack of any sincere self-reflection among both sides of the conflict you'll never have ability to reach solution.

When Serbian parliament in early 1920's discussed the Kosovo problem, what to do with it, a couple of years after Kosovo Albanians had in 1921 requested the League of Nations to take actions to unite Kosovo with Albania, a Serbian member of parliament said that Serbia will suffer a heavy toll if Kosovo inhabitants are not granted same citizen rights as other Serbian citizens had, as was the situation at that day. Nothing was done to this.

As primitive was the program that Albanians followed. Even today they speak of the impossibility for Albanians, a non-slavic people, to live in a slavic majority state. And then they wonder why Kosovo's Serbs will not find it good to live in the state of Kosovo.

Please, people, could you add a bit of thinking to your everyday life?

"only thing we can get next is that four municipalities in northern Kosovo have some sort of autonomy within Kosovo".

Why should be that a solution since it hasn't worked in Bosnia with Republika Serbska and there seem to be no problem with Serbs living in Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro or Macedonia or even in other parts of Kosovo.

Or is it how much money Serbian politicians are talking about so they can sell off Serbs of North Mitrovica because so far it has been that way.

Milosevic was indicted. But legally he is not a war criminal as he was never found guilty by the Hague.
(lowe, 16 October 2011 13:58) Hitler wasn't indited either of war crimes go figure either the butcher Stalin of 10s of millions etc.

Leviska Sofai...do you know that there are Christian Albanians in the world? Is that what you meant when you said Albania has a 30% non-Albanian population? Did you mean to say it has a 30% Christina population, which is something else entirely?

As for those who believe Serbia will take Kosovo back with tanks, yeah sure. Oh look there's spider man!!

So Hitler and Stalin are legally innocent. As innocent in the eyes of the law as Tudjman and Jack the Ripper. So what's your point?
(lowe, 17 October 2011 04:10)

I think his point was that, legally, Milosevic was worse than Stalin and Hitler, because for Milosevic the court decided that probable cause existed that he committed some crimes; nobody found even probable cause in the case of Stalin and Hitler that they committed any crime.

icj-your attempts at legal jiggery pokery are becoming more ridiculous by the day. Let me get this right. Milosevic is worse than Hitler or Stalin because the court established probable cause. This is spurious beyond belief. No judgement was passed so nothing was established at all. On the contrary, many observers believed the case against Milosevic was weak from the start, and would likely have failed. And believe me, I was no fan of Milosevic.
(Wally, 18 October 2011 13:05)

I don't care whose fan you are. But, I think you have no idea what you are speaking about. Go and read a criminal law procedure 101 book and you'll understand.

Probabable cause is the standard of proof that the prosecution has to establish in order for the court to issue an indictement. And the court did find a probable cause for Milosevic and did issue an indictement.

For a judgement of guilty, the standard of proof is higher; the prosecution has to establish beyond reasonable doubt (not just probable cause) that the accused committed the crimes. And there was no judgement in Milosevic's case.

Well, if that was indeed his point, then I think he is wrong. How can Milosevic be LEGALLY worse than Stalin and Hitler when none of them were convicted by the courts? At the most he or you can give personal opinions, I can accept that, but I don't think either of you should presume yourselves to be qualified to speak on behalf of the courts.
(lowe, 18 October 2011 14:51)

Well, the Court has alredy spoken; it did issue an indictement for Milosevic because the Court was satisfied that the prosecution had established a prima facie case(sorry for being now too technical) that Milosevic committed the crimes he was accused for.

Wow, the worst case scenario right now would be an autonomous northern Kosovo? That's fantastic since it's far better than what was given in 2008! Not that Dacic would have any problems using tanks to get other parts of Kosovo. VS could be in Pristina in 48 hours. Prizren in 72. Albanians have proven they don't put up a resistance for long. But let's not talk about war and what Serbia would need if it wanted to take Kosovo back. That's for the Albanian keyboard warriors of the diaspora to think about. All Serbia needs is for Kosovo to get a visa-free travel and more than 500,000 Albanians will leave in the first year for someplace better. Look at all the diasporas here. They seem pretty happy where they're living in the West writing about what other people would do to defend a land they don't live in and probably have never been to :)
(Balkan Anthropologist, 16 October 2011 20:15)
Maybe you have not noticed that 90% of the people on here that are bragging about the tanks rolling into Kosovo etc are actually Serbs that have abandoned the homeland for a better life and want the ones left behind to risk everything to so that the diasporia can proudly stand up and say "We are Serb"

So the tanks start rolling towards Kosovo, what kind of life is left for the Serbs that remain after the war? I also like how you initiate the thumping of the chest and then try to portray it is the Albanians that are warmongers. Maybe some self reflection is in order.

do you know the difference between ethnicity/nationality and religion? religion:a particular system of faith and worship. nationality : distinctive national or ethnic character. is this the kind of stupid arguments people employ to say that only an albanian muslim is an albanian and a christian albanian cannot be an albanian?

icj-your attempts at legal jiggery pokery are becoming more ridiculous by the day. Let me get this right. Milosevic is worse than Hitler or Stalin because the court established probable cause. This is spurious beyond belief. No judgement was passed so nothing was established at all. On the contrary, many observers believed the case against Milosevic was weak from the start, and would likely have failed. And believe me, I was no fan of Milosevic.

"I think his point was that, legally, Milosevic was worse than Stalin and Hitler, because for Milosevic the court decided that probable cause existed that he committed some crimes; nobody found even probable cause in the case of Stalin and Hitler that they committed any crime.
(icj1, 18 October 2011 04:35)"

Well, if that was indeed his point, then I think he is wrong. How can Milosevic be LEGALLY worse than Stalin and Hitler when none of them were convicted by the courts? At the most he or you can give personal opinions, I can accept that, but I don't think either of you should presume yourselves to be qualified to speak on behalf of the courts.

"Well, the Court has alredy spoken; it did issue an indictement for Milosevic because the Court was satisfied that the prosecution had established a prima facie case(sorry for being now too technical) that Milosevic committed the crimes he was accused for.
(icj1, 19 October 2011 04:34)"



The courts have spoken BUT THEY HAVE NOT SAID THAT HE IS GUILTY. Indictments are not guilt in the eyes of the law. Neither does your "prima facie case" amount to guilt. As long as a person has not been found guilty by the courts, he/she remains legally innocent -- there's no such thing as the courts finding a person "probably guilty" (except perhaps in your own la la land). An accused is either legally guilty or innocent -- there are no ifs or buts or halfway gray areas -- legally he is either guilty or innocent as in black or white -- and if he has never been convicted, he remains innocent in the eyes of the law -- as in Milosevic's case, thereby making him legally no worse off than Stalin, Hitler etc.