“Serbia counting on Jamaica’s support”

@ Jeremic!? 66 countrys now,thks.

Did Jeremic just say "fight for new negotiations for Kosovo"?

So he is acknowledging that negotiations were already
held and since Serbia doesn't like the outcome, new negotiations are needed?

Correct me if I am wrong, but most of the Serb posters here claim that "no negotiations were held"...

Did Vuk just claim otherwise or was it an innocent slip of the tongue?

lol jeremic looks a bit too happy in that picture, must be something in the jamaica air ;)

That's nice..


With regard to the 'pseudo-state':

In the 2 years since the UDI - 66 recognitions..

In the 1st year since the UDI - 54 recognitions,
in the 2nd year since the UDI - 11 recognitions..
& the current count well into the 3rd year is...

1.

And that's the 'Kingdom of Swaziland' ;)
(peter, sydney, 13 April 2010 14:41)

Actually this year were two, but anyways more important than that is that countries that recognize Kosova/o make up 71.95% of the World's Total nominal GDP.

And the most important is that I don't see Serbs have any authority in Kosova/o.

When a Small island supports Serbia the Serb camp says its wow. But once they accept Kosovo they say its just small island where is it. these small islands will accept its not hard to understand this, most are under US or EU influence.

But after ICJ things will open up and then what will Jero say.

@ Peter

So what? For Serbia means this:

1st year: 0 recognitions reversed
2nd year: 0 recognitions reversed
3rd year: so far 0 recognitions reversed

Recognitions know only one way, more. Speed is irrelevant and once ICJ rules a neutral assessment (as mentioned by ICY president Owada) then all reluctant states will follow the Western world. Of course, states like Northkorea, Iran, Simbabwe, and the rest of those shining examples will continue to oppose us. But for that, I have only one comment: Haha, who cares?

Peter,

There is in an inverse relationship between recognition's of Kosovo and the chances of Serbia joining EU without recognition. The more recognitions we receives the less likely EU will allow Serbia to join the block without recognizing it's southern neighbor.

Let's look it this way, after Jeremic spent millions of EUR on all those private jet flights to date NO / 0 de-recognitions.

Time is on Kosovo's side.

"@ Jeremic!? 66 countrys now,thks.
(trepca1, 13 April 2010 10:13) "

That's nice..


With regard to the 'pseudo-state':

In the 2 years since the UDI - 66 recognitions..

In the 1st year since the UDI - 54 recognitions,
in the 2nd year since the UDI - 11 recognitions..
& the current count well into the 3rd year is...

1.

And that's the 'Kingdom of Swaziland' ;)

# @ Jeremic!? 66 countrys now,thks.
(trepca1, 13 April 2010 10:13)

please do the math. how many countries has Jeremic been to and how many of them recognized Serbia's southern province of Kosovo to be an independent country?

Recognitions know only one way, more. Speed is irrelevant and once ICJ rules a neutral assessment (as mentioned by ICY president Owada) then all reluctant states will follow the Western world. Of course, states like Northkorea, Iran, Simbabwe, and the rest of those shining examples will continue to oppose us. But for that, I have only one comment: Haha, who cares?
(John, 13 April 2010 15:38)

Saudi Arabia yes, that shining example of liberal democracy.

..and you can't even spell Zimbabwe properly.

John:
> Recognitions know only one way, more. Speed is irrelevant and once ICJ rules a neutral assessment (as

mentioned by ICY president Owada) then all reluctant states will follow the Western world.

Actually 'John', All Owada said was that the ICJ's decision would not be a clearcut 'yes or no', but a

'nuanced verdict' comprising some 30 pages - in which I imagine, each judge will say yea or nay & then give

his/her reasons.

A 'neutral assessment' coming from the ICJ is nothing but wishful thinking on your part... as is your

conclusion that 'all reluctant states will follow the Western world' in the event of such.

And even assuming there are no reversals of recognitions, the 'speed of recognitions' is hardly irrelevant

when the trend is towards zero.

But as you seem to have missed the point, will try to make it simpler for you:

In the 1st half of the 1st year - 45,
in the 2nd half of the 1st year - 9,

in the 1st half of the 2nd year - 8,
in the 2nd half of the 2nd year - 3...

currently, 2 months into the 1st half of the 3rd year - 1.

A reasonable extrapolation might be:

In the 1st half of the 3rd year - 3,
in the 2nd half of the 3rd year - 1,

in the 1st half of the 4th year - 1,
in the 2nd half of the 4th year - 0..

.. with virtually nothing to follow...
.. ie: nil.. nada.. zip.. zero.

But of course your assumption that there'll be no reversals has about as much worth as the rest of your

comment - Costa Rica for one has already stated that they will reverse their recognition if the ICJ ruling

favours Serbia.. as seems likely.

Taiwan has in the past, been recognised by 58 different countries. Now it is recognised by just 22.


Billabo:
> When a Small island supports Serbia the Serb camp says its wow. But once they accept Kosovo they say

its just small island where is it. these small islands will accept its not hard to understand this, most are under

US or EU influence.

'Some in the serb camp' would be more accurate. I for one, never have. And the 'size' of a place does have

relevance, be it in population, economics, or military might.

And 'Swaziland' isn't an island.


Hekuran:
> Actually this year were two, ...

This calendar year yes. But in the 3rd year of recognition since the UDI on 17th of February 2008, which

was the implication from the context of my last comment..

..only 1.

Try to keep up.

>.. but anyways more important than that is that countries that recognize Kosova/o make up 71.95% of the

World's Total nominal GDP. ...

Not sure whose figures you're using or what year you're referring to, but here's what I've found:

Nominal GDP % (actual & projected) of 66 countries that have recognised pretend-state from 2008 through

to 2014 according to the IMF are:

2008 - 69.55%,
2009 - 69.11%,
2010 - 67.65%,
2011 - 66.56%,
2012 - 65.59%,
2013 - 64.64%,
2014 - 63.49%.

And for interest's sake, 2008 GDP(PPP) (IMF) % of countries that have recognised fake-state is... 56%.

Sources are:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_future_GDP_%28nominal%29_estimates
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29

Steady decline in nominal percentages with time is interesting.. as is the discrepancy between what has

been stated by the opposing camp (72 % with up to 75 % elsewhere) & the figures above.

> .. And the most important is that I don't see Serbs have any authority in Kosova/o.

Try going north of the Ibar & telling the serbs that there.

Will be a salutory lesson to you of just how far the 'actual authority' of 'pristina' really extends.

JAMAICA rasta man vibrations yeahah! Jah Selassi King of the King, Lords of the Lords, Get up stand up stand for your rights! and let the Serbs in Kosovo be free

Considering how fast MonteBlack got into the UN, your recognitions record is a joke. When the ICJ rules against the UDI (if it was cut and dry for pro-UDI, why hasn't it been announced by now; why did the mighty us beg for it to be dismissed?), that is when the reversals will begin and that is also when we will start hearing about how some of the aid for kosovo money was used to bribe governments to give recognition. Your game will be exposed to the world and your "negotiating" position will be zero. The we'll see how fast the mighty america abandons a loser.

And that's the 'Kingdom of Swaziland' ;)
(peter, sydney, 13 April 2010 14:41)

Yes Kingdom of Swaziland who has no need for IMF unlike "european" Serbia

Jeremic,

"We are entering a crucial phase in our diplomatic and legal efforts in the fight for new negotiations for Kosovo,”

AND

"....respecting the sovereignty and territorial integrity...".

These two DON'T ADD UP...It is just political propaganda for mainly public consuption.

Actually 2 of the 15 CARICOM members recognise Kosovo: Belize and Montserrat. Montserrat however is a dependency of the UK, so it has only indirectly recognised Kosovo. It would probably be better to say that only 1 of the 14 sovereign CARICOM members has recognised Kosovo's independence.

Let's look it this way, after Jeremic spent millions of EUR on all those private jet flights to date NO / 0 de-recognitions.

Time is on Kosovo's side.
(RKS, 13 April 2010 21:15)
===================

Not one derecognition is needed. Serbia has everything she needs. A block in the UN and a block in EU.
It's up to you to do better not Serbia if you want to get ahead.
Judging by how you are going, you will need another 100 years to get them all to recognise you. Anything can happen by then.

(peter, sydney, 13 April 2010 20:10)

this article is about Jamaican and rest of Caribbean i was not referring to 66th country.

Some meaning few and to your point relevance right now Kosovo is in good company

RKS:
> There is in an inverse relationship between recognition's of Kosovo and the chances of Serbia joining EU without recognition.

Only recognition's that could possibly be relevant in this event would be those of EU states. Swaziland's recognition in that context is meaningless.

Official position of 'brussels' is that membership of the EU is not conditional on Serbia's acceptance of the K-albanian UDI. Cannot be otherwise until & if all 5 of the hold-outs recognise 'pseudo-state' which will never happen without Serbia's acceptance.

Unofficial position of certain countries may very well be different but those will have a hard time justifying their stance if they seek to prevent Serbia's entry for that reason.

And my guess is that if it comes down to a choice between admitting Serbia without Serbia's acceptance of the K-albanian UDI, & freezing Serbia out of the EU because of it's stance on Kosovo, then 'brussels' would choose the former - as 'brussels' ultimately wants Serbia in the EU.

All Serbia has to do is to refuse to acknowledge the UDI.

Were the issue to be anything but Kosovo, serb politicians could be expected to cave-in to all the pressures & demands being placed upon them by the west.

But the issue is Kosovo & the bureaucrats in brussels will eventually realise that the serbs are not going to concede - which is why they'll eventually buckle.

Not that I regard this as a good thing. In my opinion, serbs are better off outside of the EU.

> Let's look it this way, after Jeremic spent millions of EUR on all those private jet flights to date NO / 0 de-recognitions.

Is still early days.

Have already mentioned Costa Rica's stated position on de-recognition assuming a favourable ruling to Serbia being brought down by the ICJ in the next couple of months - which is pretty much a given.

Have also mentioned Taiwan which has lost the recognition of 36 states being currently only recognised by 22. Didn't happen straight away.. process took about 4 years after the end of WWII to kick-off.

Then it snow-balled.

Will happen. Just be patient.

As time goes on, recognitions will dwindle & die-out, de-recognitions will start to flow (especially as the money for the bribes runs out) & the economies of the western backers of Kosovo will get weaker while BRIC gets stronger & stronger.

> Time is on Kosovo's side.

Go right on thinking that.


Bilbao:
> this article is about Jamaican and rest of Caribbean i was not referring to 66th country.

Fair enough - although you were talking about double standards being applied by 'serb camp' when it came to 'island states' & their recognition/refusal-of-recognition.

And given that at that point, my comment was the only one to even remotely touch on that subject, I thought it was a fair enough assumption.

And my point on generalisations stands.

> Some meaning few and to your point relevance right now

Assume you're using a 'translator'. If so, it didn't work.

ps: Bilbao or Billabo?

Not one derecognition is needed. Serbia has everything she needs. A block in the UN and a block in EU.
It's up to you to do better not Serbia if you want to get ahead.
Judging by how you are going, you will need another 100 years to get them all to recognise you. Anything can happen by then.
(Peggy, 14 April 2010 01:09)

HUH? Ok, seems fair to me, although I'm not sure about the block in EU.
In any case, let the Albanians do better for themselves. Let them worry about their problems. 100 years?
It was only a few years ago when YOU and the same bunch of radicals said that Independence was impossible. C'mon now!
How about you wait and see what's going to happen in those 100 years? ;)

(peter, sydney, 14 April 2010 15:39)
Sorry it is Bilbao must have hit extra L.

I am not using any translator did not understand your point.

Bilbao:
>>> Some meaning few and to your point relevance right now

>> Assume you're using a 'translator'. If so, it didn't work.

> I am not using any translator did not understand your point.

Simple 'translators' usually garble the syntax of sentences.. sometimes to the point of incomprehension/unreadability. Assumed that to be the case with your original comment (>>>) as it made no sense.

Care to try again?

@ Jeremic!? 66 countrys now,thks.

"@ Jeremic!? 66 countrys now,thks.
(trepca1, 13 April 2010 10:13) "

That's nice..


With regard to the 'pseudo-state':

In the 2 years since the UDI - 66 recognitions..

In the 1st year since the UDI - 54 recognitions,
in the 2nd year since the UDI - 11 recognitions..
& the current count well into the 3rd year is...

1.

And that's the 'Kingdom of Swaziland' ;)

Considering how fast MonteBlack got into the UN, your recognitions record is a joke. When the ICJ rules against the UDI (if it was cut and dry for pro-UDI, why hasn't it been announced by now; why did the mighty us beg for it to be dismissed?), that is when the reversals will begin and that is also when we will start hearing about how some of the aid for kosovo money was used to bribe governments to give recognition. Your game will be exposed to the world and your "negotiating" position will be zero. The we'll see how fast the mighty america abandons a loser.

Recognitions know only one way, more. Speed is irrelevant and once ICJ rules a neutral assessment (as mentioned by ICY president Owada) then all reluctant states will follow the Western world. Of course, states like Northkorea, Iran, Simbabwe, and the rest of those shining examples will continue to oppose us. But for that, I have only one comment: Haha, who cares?
(John, 13 April 2010 15:38)

Saudi Arabia yes, that shining example of liberal democracy.

..and you can't even spell Zimbabwe properly.

@ Peter

So what? For Serbia means this:

1st year: 0 recognitions reversed
2nd year: 0 recognitions reversed
3rd year: so far 0 recognitions reversed

Recognitions know only one way, more. Speed is irrelevant and once ICJ rules a neutral assessment (as mentioned by ICY president Owada) then all reluctant states will follow the Western world. Of course, states like Northkorea, Iran, Simbabwe, and the rest of those shining examples will continue to oppose us. But for that, I have only one comment: Haha, who cares?

Jeremic,

"We are entering a crucial phase in our diplomatic and legal efforts in the fight for new negotiations for Kosovo,”

AND

"....respecting the sovereignty and territorial integrity...".

These two DON'T ADD UP...It is just political propaganda for mainly public consuption.

# @ Jeremic!? 66 countrys now,thks.
(trepca1, 13 April 2010 10:13)

please do the math. how many countries has Jeremic been to and how many of them recognized Serbia's southern province of Kosovo to be an independent country?

Peter,

There is in an inverse relationship between recognition's of Kosovo and the chances of Serbia joining EU without recognition. The more recognitions we receives the less likely EU will allow Serbia to join the block without recognizing it's southern neighbor.

Let's look it this way, after Jeremic spent millions of EUR on all those private jet flights to date NO / 0 de-recognitions.

Time is on Kosovo's side.

Did Jeremic just say "fight for new negotiations for Kosovo"?

So he is acknowledging that negotiations were already
held and since Serbia doesn't like the outcome, new negotiations are needed?

Correct me if I am wrong, but most of the Serb posters here claim that "no negotiations were held"...

Did Vuk just claim otherwise or was it an innocent slip of the tongue?

And that's the 'Kingdom of Swaziland' ;)
(peter, sydney, 13 April 2010 14:41)

Yes Kingdom of Swaziland who has no need for IMF unlike "european" Serbia

John:
> Recognitions know only one way, more. Speed is irrelevant and once ICJ rules a neutral assessment (as

mentioned by ICY president Owada) then all reluctant states will follow the Western world.

Actually 'John', All Owada said was that the ICJ's decision would not be a clearcut 'yes or no', but a

'nuanced verdict' comprising some 30 pages - in which I imagine, each judge will say yea or nay & then give

his/her reasons.

A 'neutral assessment' coming from the ICJ is nothing but wishful thinking on your part... as is your

conclusion that 'all reluctant states will follow the Western world' in the event of such.

And even assuming there are no reversals of recognitions, the 'speed of recognitions' is hardly irrelevant

when the trend is towards zero.

But as you seem to have missed the point, will try to make it simpler for you:

In the 1st half of the 1st year - 45,
in the 2nd half of the 1st year - 9,

in the 1st half of the 2nd year - 8,
in the 2nd half of the 2nd year - 3...

currently, 2 months into the 1st half of the 3rd year - 1.

A reasonable extrapolation might be:

In the 1st half of the 3rd year - 3,
in the 2nd half of the 3rd year - 1,

in the 1st half of the 4th year - 1,
in the 2nd half of the 4th year - 0..

.. with virtually nothing to follow...
.. ie: nil.. nada.. zip.. zero.

But of course your assumption that there'll be no reversals has about as much worth as the rest of your

comment - Costa Rica for one has already stated that they will reverse their recognition if the ICJ ruling

favours Serbia.. as seems likely.

Taiwan has in the past, been recognised by 58 different countries. Now it is recognised by just 22.


Billabo:
> When a Small island supports Serbia the Serb camp says its wow. But once they accept Kosovo they say

its just small island where is it. these small islands will accept its not hard to understand this, most are under

US or EU influence.

'Some in the serb camp' would be more accurate. I for one, never have. And the 'size' of a place does have

relevance, be it in population, economics, or military might.

And 'Swaziland' isn't an island.


Hekuran:
> Actually this year were two, ...

This calendar year yes. But in the 3rd year of recognition since the UDI on 17th of February 2008, which

was the implication from the context of my last comment..

..only 1.

Try to keep up.

>.. but anyways more important than that is that countries that recognize Kosova/o make up 71.95% of the

World's Total nominal GDP. ...

Not sure whose figures you're using or what year you're referring to, but here's what I've found:

Nominal GDP % (actual & projected) of 66 countries that have recognised pretend-state from 2008 through

to 2014 according to the IMF are:

2008 - 69.55%,
2009 - 69.11%,
2010 - 67.65%,
2011 - 66.56%,
2012 - 65.59%,
2013 - 64.64%,
2014 - 63.49%.

And for interest's sake, 2008 GDP(PPP) (IMF) % of countries that have recognised fake-state is... 56%.

Sources are:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_future_GDP_%28nominal%29_estimates
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29

Steady decline in nominal percentages with time is interesting.. as is the discrepancy between what has

been stated by the opposing camp (72 % with up to 75 % elsewhere) & the figures above.

> .. And the most important is that I don't see Serbs have any authority in Kosova/o.

Try going north of the Ibar & telling the serbs that there.

Will be a salutory lesson to you of just how far the 'actual authority' of 'pristina' really extends.

JAMAICA rasta man vibrations yeahah! Jah Selassi King of the King, Lords of the Lords, Get up stand up stand for your rights! and let the Serbs in Kosovo be free

When a Small island supports Serbia the Serb camp says its wow. But once they accept Kosovo they say its just small island where is it. these small islands will accept its not hard to understand this, most are under US or EU influence.

But after ICJ things will open up and then what will Jero say.

That's nice..


With regard to the 'pseudo-state':

In the 2 years since the UDI - 66 recognitions..

In the 1st year since the UDI - 54 recognitions,
in the 2nd year since the UDI - 11 recognitions..
& the current count well into the 3rd year is...

1.

And that's the 'Kingdom of Swaziland' ;)
(peter, sydney, 13 April 2010 14:41)

Actually this year were two, but anyways more important than that is that countries that recognize Kosova/o make up 71.95% of the World's Total nominal GDP.

And the most important is that I don't see Serbs have any authority in Kosova/o.

Let's look it this way, after Jeremic spent millions of EUR on all those private jet flights to date NO / 0 de-recognitions.

Time is on Kosovo's side.
(RKS, 13 April 2010 21:15)
===================

Not one derecognition is needed. Serbia has everything she needs. A block in the UN and a block in EU.
It's up to you to do better not Serbia if you want to get ahead.
Judging by how you are going, you will need another 100 years to get them all to recognise you. Anything can happen by then.

lol jeremic looks a bit too happy in that picture, must be something in the jamaica air ;)

Actually 2 of the 15 CARICOM members recognise Kosovo: Belize and Montserrat. Montserrat however is a dependency of the UK, so it has only indirectly recognised Kosovo. It would probably be better to say that only 1 of the 14 sovereign CARICOM members has recognised Kosovo's independence.

(peter, sydney, 13 April 2010 20:10)

this article is about Jamaican and rest of Caribbean i was not referring to 66th country.

Some meaning few and to your point relevance right now Kosovo is in good company

RKS:
> There is in an inverse relationship between recognition's of Kosovo and the chances of Serbia joining EU without recognition.

Only recognition's that could possibly be relevant in this event would be those of EU states. Swaziland's recognition in that context is meaningless.

Official position of 'brussels' is that membership of the EU is not conditional on Serbia's acceptance of the K-albanian UDI. Cannot be otherwise until & if all 5 of the hold-outs recognise 'pseudo-state' which will never happen without Serbia's acceptance.

Unofficial position of certain countries may very well be different but those will have a hard time justifying their stance if they seek to prevent Serbia's entry for that reason.

And my guess is that if it comes down to a choice between admitting Serbia without Serbia's acceptance of the K-albanian UDI, & freezing Serbia out of the EU because of it's stance on Kosovo, then 'brussels' would choose the former - as 'brussels' ultimately wants Serbia in the EU.

All Serbia has to do is to refuse to acknowledge the UDI.

Were the issue to be anything but Kosovo, serb politicians could be expected to cave-in to all the pressures & demands being placed upon them by the west.

But the issue is Kosovo & the bureaucrats in brussels will eventually realise that the serbs are not going to concede - which is why they'll eventually buckle.

Not that I regard this as a good thing. In my opinion, serbs are better off outside of the EU.

> Let's look it this way, after Jeremic spent millions of EUR on all those private jet flights to date NO / 0 de-recognitions.

Is still early days.

Have already mentioned Costa Rica's stated position on de-recognition assuming a favourable ruling to Serbia being brought down by the ICJ in the next couple of months - which is pretty much a given.

Have also mentioned Taiwan which has lost the recognition of 36 states being currently only recognised by 22. Didn't happen straight away.. process took about 4 years after the end of WWII to kick-off.

Then it snow-balled.

Will happen. Just be patient.

As time goes on, recognitions will dwindle & die-out, de-recognitions will start to flow (especially as the money for the bribes runs out) & the economies of the western backers of Kosovo will get weaker while BRIC gets stronger & stronger.

> Time is on Kosovo's side.

Go right on thinking that.


Bilbao:
> this article is about Jamaican and rest of Caribbean i was not referring to 66th country.

Fair enough - although you were talking about double standards being applied by 'serb camp' when it came to 'island states' & their recognition/refusal-of-recognition.

And given that at that point, my comment was the only one to even remotely touch on that subject, I thought it was a fair enough assumption.

And my point on generalisations stands.

> Some meaning few and to your point relevance right now

Assume you're using a 'translator'. If so, it didn't work.

ps: Bilbao or Billabo?

Not one derecognition is needed. Serbia has everything she needs. A block in the UN and a block in EU.
It's up to you to do better not Serbia if you want to get ahead.
Judging by how you are going, you will need another 100 years to get them all to recognise you. Anything can happen by then.
(Peggy, 14 April 2010 01:09)

HUH? Ok, seems fair to me, although I'm not sure about the block in EU.
In any case, let the Albanians do better for themselves. Let them worry about their problems. 100 years?
It was only a few years ago when YOU and the same bunch of radicals said that Independence was impossible. C'mon now!
How about you wait and see what's going to happen in those 100 years? ;)

(peter, sydney, 14 April 2010 15:39)
Sorry it is Bilbao must have hit extra L.

I am not using any translator did not understand your point.

Bilbao:
>>> Some meaning few and to your point relevance right now

>> Assume you're using a 'translator'. If so, it didn't work.

> I am not using any translator did not understand your point.

Simple 'translators' usually garble the syntax of sentences.. sometimes to the point of incomprehension/unreadability. Assumed that to be the case with your original comment (>>>) as it made no sense.

Care to try again?