Serbia, Russia, and Pax Americana in South Eastern Europe

To Jan Andersen:

Your views seem to suggest that you are in favour of local government having greater meaning than central government. Are you crazy? You must be an anarchist. Allowing this kind of mentality will only lead to chaos of immense proportions. Think about it. An ethnic group becomes a majority in a town or region and all of a sudden the central government has no say in their affairs.

Great article, covers it well.
And Florin, you are wrong, it does not overestimate Russia's influence in the Balkans - that is centuries old. It is the USA, not Russia, that is the "transient phenomenon" in the Balkans, for them it's just somewhere oil pipelines have to cross.
That is why it is such a mistake for Albanians to be putting all their eggs in the USA basket. When oil/gas don't matter to the USA - nor will Albanians.
The only real solution is compromise between all the peoples that live in the Balkans with "European" and Russian guarantees, our immediate neighbours, that's just common sense.

Mr.Reljic forgets to mention that it is only his personal view, because of course, there is no fait accompli, and there is certainly nothing "irreversible".

as to the "commentator":
the only, and I will repeat it once more: the ONLY compromise possible is substantial autonomy WITHIN Serbia.

everything else will fail.

and Serbia, not only with Russia in it´s back, is growing stronger.

let´s just see what future brings.

I agree Jovan - the simplest compromise in the Balkans means all borders (including Serbia's) stay as is, but minorities (be it Kosovo or RS) get to run their own affairs.

As a Krajinian myself, I hope that we too will get real autonomy within Croatia... we deserve it big time if the "Kosovars" do.

The alternative is to redraw ALL borders on ethnic lines, not just Serbia's.... but that could get tricky.

Main thing to understand; Serbs will not be the ONLY exception to the "rules"... the USA must get that thru their heads.

In the long run America did Serbia a favor if not willingly by separating Kosovo. It would not have been to long until the Albanians comprised the overwhelming majority in Serbia. All the ramifications that it would have entailed in the future for Serbia and the Serbs.

Pax Americana? At a time when America can't even save its own banks and countless subprime mortgagors without foreign help .... this guy's gotta be kidding!

A thorough article, but it overestimates Russian involvement in the Balkans. It is strategically impossible for Russia to have much clout in the Balkans because the area is surrounded by NATO members, and because besides the Serbs, no other nation in the Balkans cares much about Russia. Everyone is looking West. Believe it or not, most countries around Serbia have joined, or are in the process of joining the western world.

Jan - who exactly gets the right to be a "region/country"? How is it decided? Who decides it?

I've decided I will decide.. why not? That's no less arrogant than G.Bush and co thinking they call the shots on every issue.

So...

To the Serbs of Copenhagen, gather into a corner of the city, set up baracades and declare independence from the Danish imperialists - how dare they tell you to live, what language to speak etc. We don't even like their ice cream!

Free Serbian Copenhagen!

"Progressive" Danes like Jan are with you!....

Or are you saying this sort of thing only applies to Serbia??

Good article, I have only one minor quibble with it:

"(because it is not mandated by the UN Security Council) the legally flawed start of its rule of law mission in Kosovo (EULEX) have once more strained its credibility."

I don't see why the EU (or anyone else for that matter that decides to send people to Kosovo) should be concerned or constrained about what the UN SC thinks or do not think.

The only organisation that the EU needs to consider is the local government and their wishes, in this case the Kosovo government. Do they agree, or disagree, with the presence of EULEX? I think the answer is clear.

The next question becomes: Is the Kosovo government legal, can they legally decide who to invite, and who to reject?

Again, this is not the UN SC that decides this. If anything, it must be the UN General Assembly that has the final say in this, or am I totally mistaken?

On 22 September 2008 13:05, dingdong wrote:

"Your views seem to suggest that you are in favour of local government having greater meaning than central government. Are you crazy? You must be an anarchist."

Anarchist? Depends what you mean by that word. I am very much for individual freedom and liberty, so I guess I am an anarchist. I don't think anyone should determine how I live my live as long as my actions do not harm other people.

And yes, I do believe in decentralized and local government. Don't you? Or would you prefer if a central European government should decided how your little region (a.k.a. country) was running its affairs?

"Independence for everyone - twice on Sundays!"
--

So Jan, factoring in your comments (re ownership etc), and refining the scenario a little, if a group of Serbs in Denmark owned (with relevant paperwork recognized by the Danish state) a farm, say, about half a square km in size - and these Serbs demanded independence from Denmark - do you back there claim?

According to your criteria (that we know so far) it's looking promising: owns land, 100% turn out for the vote, 100% backing for independence....

Welcome new country of Serbodanmark!

Interested to understand why this wouldn't be good enough (if you think it isn't)?

I'll pre-empt any points re size and population by underlining that the new state is the same size as the Vatican and would have the same population (800).

A totally plausible scenario. (If we can believe Wiki, there are about 4000 Serbs in Denmark... should be able to get 800 living in the state of Serbodanmark).

Comments Jan?

On a side note, you should probably be more worried about a new state of Albanodanmark breaking away, according to wiki there are 12000 Albanians in Denmark!

who creates this instabilisation in Kosova??
Of course Serbia...

On 24 September 2008 02:24, commentator wrote:

"Jan - who exactly gets the right to be a region/country"? How is it decided? Who decides it?"

Answer: The people living in that area decides it by a free and democratic vote. Preferably with a minimum of 60% of the votes.

commentator: "I've decided I will decide.."

Good for you. I will support you, as long as your decisions are about you and the land you own.

commentator: "To the Serbs of Copenhagen, gather into a corner of the city, set up baracades and declare independence from the Danish imperialists"

Feel free to do that, but unless you can produce a piece of paper that will convince me that you legally own that little corner, expect a visit from the police when the legal owner asks for the courts help in reclaiming his legal property.

commentator: "Or are you saying this sort of thing only applies to Serbia??"

It applies to everyone with a legal right to the land in question. As I have said before, if enough Serbs can produce papers that shows how they legally own parts of Kosovo, I am sure they can get those parts back.
--

Democratic Serbia's case is solid and respect for it will grow over time - provided that it continues to strongly maintain that Kosovo is its territory. In time the EU countries will respect that strength of commitment.

Serbia must never back down on this - Serbia will join the EU while still maintaining its legal ownership because the EU countries will not want to be so small-minded that they refuse Serbia's entry.

I think that writters view on the area is well oriented. After reading also all the comments i have to add the follow:

We shold not underestimate the difficulty for a population organised like Kossovarians to create a real state like they dreem.With the only support from the region comming from Albania and the close neighbours ...USA needs a lot of expenses for this new country ( in contrary with global crisis).Furthermore a minority which wants to become the newest country in Europe has to have various social ,political, cultutal and philosophical characteristics
and not only the biggest birth
rate in Europe.I cant understand what are the standards for this children survival.

A hopelessly American article. America is the only country in the world that still hasn't noticed that the Cold War ended and that shows in this article too. According to this view Russia is still vying with the US to control the world. In fact Russian foreign policy has now much more narrow goals like protecting Russian minorities abroad and supporting old friend Serbia in a situation where it has been done injustice.

Nowadays the human rights argument has become stale and even against US interests in SE Europe (the most troubled group are Kosovo's Serbs). The only argument that rests is the Albanian birth rate what suggest that it is a dynamic ally for the US. But this argument sounds very opportunistic and it is doubtful whether many US citizens would be happy to see their tax money wasted on such a flimsy excuse. So Reljić needs to paint Russia as an imperialist so that the US exploits in SE Europe can be explained as necessary countermeasures.

who creates this instabilisation in Kosova??
Of course Serbia...

A thorough article, but it overestimates Russian involvement in the Balkans. It is strategically impossible for Russia to have much clout in the Balkans because the area is surrounded by NATO members, and because besides the Serbs, no other nation in the Balkans cares much about Russia. Everyone is looking West. Believe it or not, most countries around Serbia have joined, or are in the process of joining the western world.

Good article, I have only one minor quibble with it:

"(because it is not mandated by the UN Security Council) the legally flawed start of its rule of law mission in Kosovo (EULEX) have once more strained its credibility."

I don't see why the EU (or anyone else for that matter that decides to send people to Kosovo) should be concerned or constrained about what the UN SC thinks or do not think.

The only organisation that the EU needs to consider is the local government and their wishes, in this case the Kosovo government. Do they agree, or disagree, with the presence of EULEX? I think the answer is clear.

The next question becomes: Is the Kosovo government legal, can they legally decide who to invite, and who to reject?

Again, this is not the UN SC that decides this. If anything, it must be the UN General Assembly that has the final say in this, or am I totally mistaken?

Pax Americana? At a time when America can't even save its own banks and countless subprime mortgagors without foreign help .... this guy's gotta be kidding!

In the long run America did Serbia a favor if not willingly by separating Kosovo. It would not have been to long until the Albanians comprised the overwhelming majority in Serbia. All the ramifications that it would have entailed in the future for Serbia and the Serbs.

To Jan Andersen:

Your views seem to suggest that you are in favour of local government having greater meaning than central government. Are you crazy? You must be an anarchist. Allowing this kind of mentality will only lead to chaos of immense proportions. Think about it. An ethnic group becomes a majority in a town or region and all of a sudden the central government has no say in their affairs.

Great article, covers it well.
And Florin, you are wrong, it does not overestimate Russia's influence in the Balkans - that is centuries old. It is the USA, not Russia, that is the "transient phenomenon" in the Balkans, for them it's just somewhere oil pipelines have to cross.
That is why it is such a mistake for Albanians to be putting all their eggs in the USA basket. When oil/gas don't matter to the USA - nor will Albanians.
The only real solution is compromise between all the peoples that live in the Balkans with "European" and Russian guarantees, our immediate neighbours, that's just common sense.

Mr.Reljic forgets to mention that it is only his personal view, because of course, there is no fait accompli, and there is certainly nothing "irreversible".

as to the "commentator":
the only, and I will repeat it once more: the ONLY compromise possible is substantial autonomy WITHIN Serbia.

everything else will fail.

and Serbia, not only with Russia in it´s back, is growing stronger.

let´s just see what future brings.

I agree Jovan - the simplest compromise in the Balkans means all borders (including Serbia's) stay as is, but minorities (be it Kosovo or RS) get to run their own affairs.

As a Krajinian myself, I hope that we too will get real autonomy within Croatia... we deserve it big time if the "Kosovars" do.

The alternative is to redraw ALL borders on ethnic lines, not just Serbia's.... but that could get tricky.

Main thing to understand; Serbs will not be the ONLY exception to the "rules"... the USA must get that thru their heads.

On 22 September 2008 13:05, dingdong wrote:

"Your views seem to suggest that you are in favour of local government having greater meaning than central government. Are you crazy? You must be an anarchist."

Anarchist? Depends what you mean by that word. I am very much for individual freedom and liberty, so I guess I am an anarchist. I don't think anyone should determine how I live my live as long as my actions do not harm other people.

And yes, I do believe in decentralized and local government. Don't you? Or would you prefer if a central European government should decided how your little region (a.k.a. country) was running its affairs?

"Independence for everyone - twice on Sundays!"
--

Jan - who exactly gets the right to be a "region/country"? How is it decided? Who decides it?

I've decided I will decide.. why not? That's no less arrogant than G.Bush and co thinking they call the shots on every issue.

So...

To the Serbs of Copenhagen, gather into a corner of the city, set up baracades and declare independence from the Danish imperialists - how dare they tell you to live, what language to speak etc. We don't even like their ice cream!

Free Serbian Copenhagen!

"Progressive" Danes like Jan are with you!....

Or are you saying this sort of thing only applies to Serbia??

On 24 September 2008 02:24, commentator wrote:

"Jan - who exactly gets the right to be a region/country"? How is it decided? Who decides it?"

Answer: The people living in that area decides it by a free and democratic vote. Preferably with a minimum of 60% of the votes.

commentator: "I've decided I will decide.."

Good for you. I will support you, as long as your decisions are about you and the land you own.

commentator: "To the Serbs of Copenhagen, gather into a corner of the city, set up baracades and declare independence from the Danish imperialists"

Feel free to do that, but unless you can produce a piece of paper that will convince me that you legally own that little corner, expect a visit from the police when the legal owner asks for the courts help in reclaiming his legal property.

commentator: "Or are you saying this sort of thing only applies to Serbia??"

It applies to everyone with a legal right to the land in question. As I have said before, if enough Serbs can produce papers that shows how they legally own parts of Kosovo, I am sure they can get those parts back.
--

So Jan, factoring in your comments (re ownership etc), and refining the scenario a little, if a group of Serbs in Denmark owned (with relevant paperwork recognized by the Danish state) a farm, say, about half a square km in size - and these Serbs demanded independence from Denmark - do you back there claim?

According to your criteria (that we know so far) it's looking promising: owns land, 100% turn out for the vote, 100% backing for independence....

Welcome new country of Serbodanmark!

Interested to understand why this wouldn't be good enough (if you think it isn't)?

I'll pre-empt any points re size and population by underlining that the new state is the same size as the Vatican and would have the same population (800).

A totally plausible scenario. (If we can believe Wiki, there are about 4000 Serbs in Denmark... should be able to get 800 living in the state of Serbodanmark).

Comments Jan?

On a side note, you should probably be more worried about a new state of Albanodanmark breaking away, according to wiki there are 12000 Albanians in Denmark!

Democratic Serbia's case is solid and respect for it will grow over time - provided that it continues to strongly maintain that Kosovo is its territory. In time the EU countries will respect that strength of commitment.

Serbia must never back down on this - Serbia will join the EU while still maintaining its legal ownership because the EU countries will not want to be so small-minded that they refuse Serbia's entry.

I think that writters view on the area is well oriented. After reading also all the comments i have to add the follow:

We shold not underestimate the difficulty for a population organised like Kossovarians to create a real state like they dreem.With the only support from the region comming from Albania and the close neighbours ...USA needs a lot of expenses for this new country ( in contrary with global crisis).Furthermore a minority which wants to become the newest country in Europe has to have various social ,political, cultutal and philosophical characteristics
and not only the biggest birth
rate in Europe.I cant understand what are the standards for this children survival.

A hopelessly American article. America is the only country in the world that still hasn't noticed that the Cold War ended and that shows in this article too. According to this view Russia is still vying with the US to control the world. In fact Russian foreign policy has now much more narrow goals like protecting Russian minorities abroad and supporting old friend Serbia in a situation where it has been done injustice.

Nowadays the human rights argument has become stale and even against US interests in SE Europe (the most troubled group are Kosovo's Serbs). The only argument that rests is the Albanian birth rate what suggest that it is a dynamic ally for the US. But this argument sounds very opportunistic and it is doubtful whether many US citizens would be happy to see their tax money wasted on such a flimsy excuse. So Reljić needs to paint Russia as an imperialist so that the US exploits in SE Europe can be explained as necessary countermeasures.