Russia would not be behaving in any way less morally by recognizing Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Transnistria and Nagorno-Karabakh than the US and EU by recognizing Kosovo.
Indeed Kosovo is a "sui generis" case, but fundamentally speaking, it was done outside the UNSC, why shouldn't the others?
so b92, let's get this str8t - writing "i can't wait to see them bash em on the head w/the other end of the sword" (paraphrased) is fine and acceptABLE, whereas our comments that disagree with the ultranationalist persepctive are to be censored?! and where exactly did yr people go to journalism school? the official belarus school of free media?? what is wrong with you people?! are you so blinded by hate and nationalism that you have to channel an "open" discussion to fit yr narrow politics, and allow/encourage bullying, put-downs, ethnic/rascist hate speech every single day?! did you ever think that people around the world read these forums? and because you win a few awards (because for a serbian media outlet you aren't too awful) -- therefore you think you can do anything you want and pretend to be extraordinary? it is so sick, as serbia devoles into an orgy of xenophobia, hatred and bitterness, b-92 is always there to promote the agenda.
a little less self-congratulating and a bit more self-criticism is in order.
The Serbs have more than 90% public support in Russia
(orthodox, 23 February 2008 21:27)
And by the way 100% public support of the entire Russian immigrant scene abroad. Also majority of Americans, strong majority of Canadiens, overwhelming majority of ordinary Germans.
Abraham Lincoln was fond of asking the rhetorical question: "If you call a tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have? Five? No, calling a tail a leg don't make it a leg."
That pretty much sums up the recent unilateral declaration of independence by Albanian Muslims in the Serbian province of Kosovo. Several countries, disgracefully led by the United States, have recognized Kosovo. Major media have hailed creation of the "world's newest country." But calling Kosovo a country doesn't make it one.
I don't see ur point?? what my genetics have to do with my above comment? As far I'm concerned about my nationality I can go back at least 600 hundred years back as an Albanian,originaly from today's kraj montenegro,my grandfather was forced to leave the house and everything in 1911 by serbo-montegrins and setled in Albania,in 1990 after several court hearings and fatige we got the house and the land back (of course the house wasn't like we left),I hope you'll understand why I said " I don't like you (Serbs)"
Now,I never said that I'm 100% Albanian,never know,nothing is 100%,I don't know about you ...you maybe are 100%,acording to your nickname I woulk exepect only a turk or arab to be called ataman,.
Its'nt my fault that you did'n get the point of my above comment.
again peace to all!
hope you don't get upset this time:)
Russians never would attempt to confront West for Serbia because of the following reasons:
1) Trade interest with EU and USA.
2) Lack of power towards West … Russians are so eager to be considered part of decision making, but as you witness, they are far away to reach this goal:)
So very well said. Well done brother.
Sincerely,
Sirius Black
===========================
ORTHODOX.RU
How do you know what we Russian want and how do we react !!! We really have the EU as the number 1 trade partner. But they are much more interested in such relations than we are. Nothing made by the Europeans is so unique that you cannot buy it from Korea ,China or Japan.
Your second mistake is that we are not strong enough to wipe out of the surface both the US and the EU in one day. You better read the American papers where nobody doubts it. So Serbia with Russia on her side is untouchable !
Forget about Chernomirdin and Eltsin and don't be a prisoner of your own imagination. Some 2500 missiles including 50-megatonn thermobombs are still aimed at you day and night.
Better think what you will do this summer when Russia heads the gas-OPEC with Serbia as an important chain in its transportation system !
My Serbian friends! I'm from the UK, and i would like to make it clear that not everyone here condones the independence of Kosovo, I certainly do not!
However, I would like to my feelings towards Mr. Putin known. Here goes...Dictator, egoistic, war monger, generally very unpleasent and not to be trusted. I find it hard to think that intelligent Serbs would be fooled into believing that Putin really cares about Orthodox Slavic links. Of course he doesn't. For him this is about Russian ambitions in Europe. He will use Serbia as a pawn, which will eventually leave Serbia high and dry. I mean look at Russia or USSR as it was with its old friend Cuba. When the missile crisis was over and Cuba no longer served a purpose, Russia dropped them. They will do the same with Serbia. Russia was also quick enough to sell out to Hitler, as far as Poland and Czechoslovakia were concerned. Need i say more? I'm sorry if i have gone on, but i really don't want to see Serbia suffer anymore than it has or is already.
Good luck Serbia, here's one of many westerners who backs you.
Kosovar Independence it was a long overdue and it was necessary. The Kosova Albanian's and other nationalities have suffered from ethnic cleansing, discrimination and famine under the Serbian regime. It is not only right but proper to recognize their independence.
The Kosovar’s did not get justice since the mastermind of ethnic cleansing Slobodan Milosevic, died before his trial at The Hague released a verdict. The latest nationalist and extremist developments in Serbia that shows that the spirit of Milosevic is still alive and who are the violent nation in Balkans that caused all the wars during the 90's in the Former Yugoslavia.
Russia and China may not recognize the newest country in the world because of their personal interests in Kosovo claiming technicalities and breaches in the international law. However the strong backing of US, UN and EU member nations legitimize Kosovos independence.
Kosova’s Independence that was the only way forward.
I think you'll find it is a precedent, and for areas which had more rights to be independent to begin with and those who waited years upon years to get it.
Those have seen that through violence push or bribing they'll be able to achieve their goal.
Those who never had any lawful rights to separate, like Albanians will learn that International law can be ignored at will, and violated at any time.
Russia has nothing to do with this. It will come back and bite America, Britain and France.
Plus, considering what is happening in Kosovo now, Mitrovica will join up with mother Serbia. Under the law made by your masters Americans, Kosovo (or what is left of it) cannot join to Albania.
Whatever bit is left, After Mitrovica separates will be unstable, as it is at the moment, and the whole region will collapse.
Assuming that the Mitrovica does not join up with Serbia, KosovO will remain the unstable in a downward spiral and eventually collapse.
People through the history tried this before. They tried imposed borders, they tried erasing of history, and the one point remains - none of those are sustainable or lasting.
(BKK, 23 February 2008 12:36)
Well BKK maybe the serbs in Mitrovica will try and attach to the Serbian motherland? But that will be opening pandoras bow, thats something neither European country or even Balkan country wants? You are trying start new Balkan wars again. You have Albanian majorities in Preshevo, Medvegj and Bujanovac. They too want to be to mother Kosova? You have the Albanians in Macedonia? The Serbs in Republika SRPSKA? The Hungarians in Vojvodina the Vlachs to the eastern part of Serbia the Bulgariens in Romanania? Albanian and Serbs in Montenegro, Serbs in Croatia and Slovenia? Even Greece will have some problem with the Albanian in their northeastern part?
These are the geografical factors off Balkan and if you Serbs agree with the serbs in Mitrovica this is opening something bigger?
Albanian have been in kosova preer than the Slavic people have you herd off Dardania? The only thing we got from the Ottoman empires downfall was a lot of troubles because the super powers acted wrong in the begining? these errors have been made better by the independence of Kosova? it doesnt mean that everybody is happy but at least now we have a stability in the Balkans?
if the Serbs decide to enter the EU Kosova is going too meet jo there, Slovenia, Albania, bosnia, Romania, Bulgaria, Grecce, Macedonia and Montenegro. And the borders will open again? We had the Yugoslav Republic were we lived side by side. But Serbs dreamt of greater Serbia and destroyed the 6 biggest power in the world? You murded the diffrent people of the Yugoslav empire and understand the fact that its imposible to them to reunite with you?
Your Prime minister held a speech in Beograd about Kosova for Kosova? but did he say a word in Albanian we are 90% of the population? When we proclaimnd our independence we did it also in Serbian languge do to respect the Serb minority in Kosova?
The Serbs have more than 90% public support in Russia plus we feel our guilt to betray you with Chernomirdyn's mission when the NATO was lacking bombs. Only the Serbs must have the will for resistance. Nothing is lost yet ! We all know that US hands are tied with two half lost wars and they are now unable to start the third one when you have Russia on your side.
All we know that EU is a club of raped nations with no will to defend their own interests. To say nothing of the American ones.
So the moment is quite good. Just give us a couple of weeks to quit with the presidential formalities to activate this long fight.
The Serbs must have no brakes, they must reject the half measures policy , they must not be half pregnant. You have to give full stop for every relations with all the states violating the International Law. Serbia must be unpredictable for the fat Europe. You must offer the EU to pay the price they are not ready to pay. This is the chance !
The Serbs should greenmail the West with closer relations with Russia and do the things they would not like you to do. One way or another some 90% of the world is silently backing Serbia.
I don't like you (Serbs) that's true but I don't hate you
.
.
peace to all!!!
(arti, 23 February 2008 19:24)
1) Are you so sure, arti, there is no Serb in your family, you did the genetic research, right?
For instance, I am not sure, we had no Albanian or no Zulu in our family at one point.
2) Your first statement and the last statement ("peace") is oxymoron.
3) I can say, I don't like Albanian ultra-nationalism, but the Serbian one is not my favorite either. So far on this forum (and not just there) I do see more of Albanian ultra-nationalism than any other combined. This is not civilized, sorry.
You guys should go back to point zero with your relationship with Serbs otherwise no "independence" will help, even if you are backed by all American, Russian and Chinese army combined. Same should apply to Serbs, but the stance of even most radical Serbs here is much more civilized, it's like day and night compared with the most moderate Albanians around here.
I did see moderate Albanians tough, they are just somewhat rare breed.
yeah, tell them Putin and strat the WWIII, that will provide us all a better life..
I just feel stupid and pity for and naive Serbian people that always have to be part of something like this...
And, yes Im really sick of the Serb patriots from USA and other countries.. if you really like your mother land so much, why dont you go back...
just please stop your long- distance best wishes, youre not helping nobody....
So the Albanian propagandists claim Kosovo deserves independence because of some brutal crackdown on seperatists.
Tell me, how does that differ from the half a million refugees is Serbia that came from Srpska Republika Krajina (Croatia)? They were brutally cleansed by US backed Croatian forces in operation storm! The puppet Croatian generals and commanders are also in the Hague facing severe war crime charges!
Of course the difference is that the US doesn't really care. It only does what it wants and is more concerned about Camp Bondsteel than Albanians.
Croatia would now be wise to accept the refugees back and offer them autonomy.
The world is saying NO to the US and only a handful of its servants have recognised Kosovo while others, even those being arm twisting and pressured, are beginning to hesitate and resist!
delije; I don't like you (Serbs) that's true but I don't hate you,hate is a radical thing wich I'm not,I'm just talking about what's really happening in the balcans,facts and fiction are two differnt things,if you think that by burning embassies and relaying in Russians u'll rule or like you like saying get back Kosova,you're dead wrong!! Russians warned they will do a lot of things if Kosova-Albanians declare independence and whoever recognize as,well...the ball is in their field,do and don't just talk,talk is cheap!!
peace to all!!!
Many people are blaming the US for what is transpiring in the the former Yugo and rightfully so! As an American of Serbian origin I will not defend the actions of my birth country, there is nothing I can say to justify these UGLY actions. What I will point out is this; take a look at what is happened since the two Germany's united. It is a mirror image of what Germany and its allies did to Yugoslavia during the WWII occupation, minus the overt aggressive extermination of the Serbian people. The only difference is that it has been done in a passive-aggressive manner with the US/UK and France (former allies of the Serbs) as the front men to shield the fact that Germany is behind all of this. It has also taken a longer time because of the more "passive" approach, but the results are nearly the same. I am not defending the Anglo-Ameri nasty involvement, what I am trying to point out is the puppet master behind the scene, GERMANY! The everlasting SHAME of America and Britain for turning on their long-time allies in favor of their long-time enemy, only God himself has reserved judgement! The lack of national character it takes to accomplish these heinous actions is beyond comprehension and is surely a sign of their downfall, but they are merely pawns in this final act to their everlasting condemnation. May God uphold the Serbs, Russians and everyone who loves truth, justice and freedom in these dark days!
EA, it's an illegal precedent, 1244! Martin kinda like tyhe US did! Arbin, just wait till Pristina comes for the North, and when they can't get it, watch the violation of human rights by Albanians against Serbs start again. Sirius Black, the K-Alb had a choice in those wars and they decided to back the enemy and Hitler, does SS Skanderberg ring a bell. Arti, stop hateing, Serbia will be fine it's the Albanians that need to worry. That is when US gets what they want and lose intrest then drop the the k-Alb like a sack of potatos. LONG LIVE SERBIA!!! KOSOVO IS SERBIA!!! CCCC!!!
We Albanians have a saying "The one eat the cookies, somebody's teeth go bad":)keep listening Russia,you'll see what good Serbia will have.
Serbs posters here keep calleng as puppets of the USA,EU,what about you?? aren't you puppets of the Russia?? ah sorry,I forgot, u Serbs are special,it only apply to Albanians,like respecting the international laws.
Good look with Russia,Iran,Venezuela etc...sorry i forgot vietnam too.:)
Are these the same 'smart' people behind the Iraqi quagmire?
Your interpretation is the same as that of the US who'll spin words ad infinitum in order to justify their actions.
Besides which, you're missing the point mate.
The fact that that specific clause concerning the Helsinki act is in the pre-amble of UN resolution 1244 specifically re-inforces what is a states basic right under the UN charter itself.
The whole idea behind the UN was to prevent another World War - especially in Europe. The charter was written for this purpose. That, all on it's own, makes what the US is doing illegal.
Sirius Black:
'bmrusila' was I think, actually talking about the US, not K-albanians per se.
And this is a forum for all.
Oh, & as for choice, if the US does get away with this, you won't have any choice at all - either in regard to who has ultimate authority in Kosovo, or a possible future merger with Albania - Bondsteel's presence won't allow it.
Arden:
If you're talking about the 100 drunken yahoo's involved in the attack on the US embassy, they represented something like 0.05% of the protestors on that day. The vast majority were peaceful.
Tell me please, what was the percentage of peaceful K-albanian protestors in 2004?
You said :
"Ronald you keep forgeting that compare to USA population Indians or natives are a handfull and are exempt from paying federal tax+ they are not beaten every day or opressed at all. They are free as a bird. Your compariosn is null and void."
Wel just because they are small in numbers they have no right???
Do you actually know why they are small in numbers??
Because they where MASS-MURDERD by the americans and forced to live in small reservats which could not sustain an large population.
The entire US belonged to the Indians, not an smallpart, the entire CONTINENT was theire's and they where great in numbers before it was colonized.
You should really try to get to an non-US sponserd school, cuz youre clearly indoctrinated by the US.
One thing I agree with putin. Russian interests for making balkans russain territory and liquidation of Albanians has been broken. Hunting season on albanians is over. Time for considering albanians as rabbits is over.
"Kosova independence is not a terrible precedent unless Russia wants to make it as such for its own egoistic interest.
(EA, 23 February 2008 11:18) "
The truly sad thing is that 'EA' probably doesn't even realise the inherent irony in his post.
'EA' chooses to ignore the precedent that recognising an independent Kosovo would set because he/she wants to see Kosovo independent.
I assume the US government chooses to do so because of the long-term viability of 'Bondsteel'.
Other countries that choose to ratify the K-albanians declaration of independence also have their own reasons.
And all of these reasons are short-sighted.
Russia opposes independence, and may have it's own short-term reasons for doing so. But it also has ONE Very Good Reason as well.
The justification behind all the calls for independence for Kosovo appears to be to punish the serbs for their treatment of K-albanians up to this point, as well as for the deaths of some thousands's in the late nineties.
Casualty figures for WWII vary, but most cite a figure of...
55,000,000+ thats FIFTY FIVE MILLION or more...
depending on the source being used (Wikipedia's was the highest I found at 72M).
Of those deaths, the Russian toll was TWENTY MILLION plus.
And that IS one-hell-of-a reason.
After WWII, the nations of the world decided that such a war must NEVER EVER happen again. Towards this end, the UN was formed, and the UN charter enacted.
The UN charter incorporated the principles that a nation states sovereignty & territory were inviolate. The Helsinki Act of 1975 further guarantees a nation states borders. All members of the UN are signatories.
Since 1948, while there have been nations that have violated this charter, this hasn't affected the charter itself - thus limiting the scale of the warfare.
That's about to change for a precedent is indeed about to be set.
The pro-independence US camp states that this is a 'unique' case that doesn't set a precedent. And that claim is utter nonsense - nothing but spin.
If one faction's 'case of succession' states that 'such-and-such' reason constitutes a 'unique' case, & won't be repeated, & thus sets no precedent, then what's to stop another faction stating that
a 'different set' of reasons constitutes a 'different unique' case, which also won't be repeated, & thus also set no precedent.
The mere fact that a faction is able to cite that its 'case for succession' is unique, & thus bypasses the UN charter, sets its own precedent.
Every and I do mean EVERY case of seccession can then be sponsored by one country or another citing the above, which renders the UN charter meaningless.
And THAT is the danger.
Whether Russia's motives are pure or Russia's motives are selfish is immaterial - in this instance, Russia is Right.
There must NEVER EVER be another World War.
Whatever its other failings, in this the UN has succeeded.
Martin, is that really so? I've never heard that line of argument before, but it should be pretty easy to verify, no? Has B92 written anything on it? Where did you get that information? It would be crucial to know exactly what 1244 stipulates..
Ronald you keep forgeting that compare to USA population Indians or natives are a handfull and are exempt from paying federal tax+ they are not beaten every day or opressed at all. They are free as a bird. Your compariosn is null and void.
Other former Yug republics received recogniton after they declared Independence but not on the level/speed that Kosova has from major developed countries.
Will see what future will bring.
Bosko, yes, there is a wider goal for the USA in this issue... but.. why would the big european powers, including the ones who founded it, go with the usa in dividing the EU?
Also, if kosovo is a puppet state, it goes to say the serbia is also a puppet state, only on the other side. You can't deny that.
Kosova independence is not a terrible precedent unless Russia wants to make it as such for its own egoistic interest.
--
Absolutely correct! Victory was handed to the Serbs and Russians before the battle began.
Kosovo will never be more than a quasi-puppet entity with the North and islands within loyal to Serbia. No UN, EU or offical international legitimacy. Nothing really changes there.
However, should the divided EU continue to push for some kind of internal legitimacy, Serbia and Russia can make this a precedent by recognising Republika Srpska, Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
These are friendly secessionists who have borders with us - so legitimacy will be internal. Other secessionist regimes will start to demand the same so will begin to spiral.
Territories with partial recognition will be scattered around the world. This will be another victory for Russia and Serbia, as that was our warning to the world!
Also, the Serbs will be largely united once again!
The US and its allies are fools - dangerous fools - if they believe that this is not going to have massive reverberations down the road. But then again, maybe this is what the US wants.
--
This is exactly what I have been asking myself. Is this the plan all along? To destablise the world and split it even further?
That then goes into the conspiracy theorists domain.
Russians never would attempt to confront West for Serbia because of the following reasons:
1) Trade interest with EU and USA.
2) Lack of power towards West … Russians are so eager to be considered part of decision making, but as you witness, they are far away to reach this goal:)
Recent violent attacks in Serbia have just enforced the support of Independece of Kosova. This clearly indicates who is generating conflicts in the region. Actions talk louder than words, keep causing further inappropriate actions and violence, as this is describing yesterday's and today's Serbia. I am suprised how some appear still to be immature, and are not used to Russian game. Putin & Russia doesn't care for Independece of Kosova neither for Serbia as well. He is just playing smart to buy Serbian public companies and to control the market in Serbia for solely Russian interests. Russians never would attempt to confront West for Serbia because of the following reasons:
1) Trade interest with EU and USA.
2) Lack of power towards West Russians are so eager to be considered part of decision making, but as you witness, they are far away to reach this goal:)
I think you'll find it is a precedent, and for areas which had more rights to be independent to begin with and those who waited years upon years to get it.
Those have seen that through violence push or bribing they'll be able to achieve their goal.
Those who never had any lawful rights to separate, like Albanians will learn that International law can be ignored at will, and violated at any time.
Russia has nothing to do with this. It will come back and bite America, Britain and France.
Plus, considering what is happening in Kosovo now, Mitrovica will join up with mother Serbia. Under the law made by your masters Americans, Kosovo (or what is left of it) cannot join to Albania.
Whatever bit is left, After Mitrovica separates will be unstable, as it is at the moment, and the whole region will collapse.
Assuming that the Mitrovica does not join up with Serbia, KosovO will remain the unstable in a downward spiral and eventually collapse.
People through the history tried this before. They tried imposed borders, they tried erasing of history, and the one point remains - none of those are sustainable or lasting.
The US pushed for Kosovo recognition out of self interest because it divides
the EU, encourages ethnic seperatism in Russia, China India and other competitors and causes general chaos in many parts of the World. From all this the US hopes to benefit. All of this might slow the decline of the US empire but will not stop it. Kosovo is only a pawn in the bigger game.
Bosko
The international order will only break up if you want it to break up, Putin! With that kind of rhetoric you're not exactly helping!
If we let ourselves be cool headed for a minute we can see that resolution 1244 was formulated in a much cannier way than Putin would like us to believe. Firstly, the clause that 'establishes' Kosovo as an integral part of Serbia is found only in the pre-ambule of the document, and the pre-ambule under UN regulations has no legal force. Secondly, 1244 clearly states that if a decision cannot be reached in the Security Council, Kosovo's status must be settled otherwise.
There is no need for a second SC resolution in order to overrule the first one! When 1244 was drafted in 1999, do you really think Nato would be so stupid as to give Russia a chance to veto Kosovo's future status? Well, they weren't and from a legalist point of view, the resolution 1244 is compatible with the Unilateral Declaration of Independence.
The only thing Russia can do is blow things out of proportion in order to engineer an international crisis and give credence to pro-Moscow separatist movements close to her own territory.
"The independence of Kosovo is a terrible precedent. In effect, it breaks up the entire system of international relations, a system that has taken not even decades but centuries to evolve,"
President Putin is absolutely correct here. The concepts of the "nation state" and "sovereignty" really began with the Treaty of Westphalia in 1648. The most recent updates to these concepts are the UN Charter (1945) and the Helsinki Final Accords (1975).
It is this huge body of international law that is now being overturned by the declaration of independence by Kosovo and its recognition by various countries. The US and its allies are fools - dangerous fools - if they believe that this is not going to have massive reverberations down the road. But then again, maybe this is what the US wants.
Those who are not familiar with it should check out the "Project for the New American Century". This was a US think-tank formed in the nineties by such neo-cons as Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle and Douglas Feith. All went on to become major personalities in the the current US administration.
It envisaged this New World Order that we are all familiar with - basically a Planet Earth with only one superpower and with the right of this superpower to interfere where it wants and shape the world to its own design. Naturally this superpower would be the US.
In order to achieve this aim it is necessary to dismantle the existing order of international relations. We've already seen this with Iraq and now we see it again with Kosovo. Who will be next?
All of this represents a grave danger to world security and stability. Fortunately we now have a resurgent Russia which seems willing to confront this re-ordering of the world. Even those who are unsure of the Russians should be grateful for this.
The issues at stake here are of absolutely huge significance so I would appreciate it if the K-Albanian posters would desist from the sneering and sarcastic remarks and actually address the points being made.
"Ultimately, it is a double-edged sword, and the other edge will bash them on the head some time," Putin said.
-I must admit that I am looking forward seeing other edge of the sword bashing them on the head, hope seeing very, very soon! I am enough of cowboy’s style behaviour and policy.
Kosova's independence comes after decades of Serbian brutal oppression.
Kosova's independence in itself is a compromise solution that will bring peace and stability in the Balkans and will also make Serbia independent, so that their economy can progress and Serbia can enjoy benefits of EU and of a peaceful Balkans where everybody should have a place as free human beings.
Serbia should be very careful with the tendencies of Putin to exploit Serbian feelings for its own economic and strategic interests. He is giving wrong hopes to Serbian people and would prefer to have them fight and go as much as possible away from EU and be depended on Russia in the same way as Belarus does.
It is really appalling how B92 is allowing some of the comments to be published here.
Bashing someone over their head with a sword in my book constitutes a murder. Some might argue that it is only a figure of speech but nevertheless it shouldn't be allowed.
Equally a few days ago, I read a lot of comments about k-albanians forming a muslim state. What is wrong with someone being a muslim? It is a religion equally as good or as bad as all other religions. Besides not all k-albanians are muslims, around 20% are christians.
I urge B92 to look a bit more carefully next time it allows offensive comments to appear on this forum.
Kosovo is an terrible precedent, if the K-Albanians have the opinion that due to the oppression off the Serbs they deserve independence, then can you tell me why the native americans (also know as the indians) do not deserve to get back what was taken from them by the Americans, may i remind you that the Americans almost completly wiped out the Indians.
And further more, why did the US wage it's bloodiest war against another part of the US that wished independence from the rest (that conflict is also known as the US Civil war).
The US has double standards and this will eventually bite them in the ass, as the US is opposed to an independant state for the Kurds which have been prosecuted by the Turks, Iraqi's and iran.
Actually the US is surpressing the wish of the Kurds in Iraq to become independent, you know the Kurds that have been attack by Saddam Hussein with poison gas, you know the Saddam Hussain who gained power in Irak with the help off the US, that same Saddam Hussain that was encouraged by the US to start an war against Iran with an estimated death toll of 1.600.000 people.
The US forgein policy has been responsible for al lot off death's since WW2 and this will eventually come back to bite them.
Maybe it;s time to bring the US for an international court and make them pay for theire deeds
Kosovo is an terrible precedent, if the K-Albanians have the opinion that due to the oppression off the Serbs they deserve independence, then can you tell me why the native americans (also know as the indians) do not deserve to get back what was taken from them by the Americans, may i remind you that the Americans almost completly wiped out the Indians.
And further more, why did the US wage it's bloodiest war against another part of the US that wished independence from the rest (that conflict is also known as the US Civil war).
The US has double standards and this will eventually bite them in the ass, as the US is opposed to an independant state for the Kurds which have been prosecuted by the Turks, Iraqi's and iran.
Actually the US is surpressing the wish of the Kurds in Iraq to become independent, you know the Kurds that have been attack by Saddam Hussein with poison gas, you know the Saddam Hussain who gained power in Irak with the help off the US, that same Saddam Hussain that was encouraged by the US to start an war against Iran with an estimated death toll of 1.600.000 people.
The US forgein policy has been responsible for al lot off death's since WW2 and this will eventually come back to bite them.
Maybe it;s time to bring the US for an international court and make them pay for theire deeds
"The independence of Kosovo is a terrible precedent. In effect, it breaks up the entire system of international relations, a system that has taken not even decades but centuries to evolve,"
President Putin is absolutely correct here. The concepts of the "nation state" and "sovereignty" really began with the Treaty of Westphalia in 1648. The most recent updates to these concepts are the UN Charter (1945) and the Helsinki Final Accords (1975).
It is this huge body of international law that is now being overturned by the declaration of independence by Kosovo and its recognition by various countries. The US and its allies are fools - dangerous fools - if they believe that this is not going to have massive reverberations down the road. But then again, maybe this is what the US wants.
Those who are not familiar with it should check out the "Project for the New American Century". This was a US think-tank formed in the nineties by such neo-cons as Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle and Douglas Feith. All went on to become major personalities in the the current US administration.
It envisaged this New World Order that we are all familiar with - basically a Planet Earth with only one superpower and with the right of this superpower to interfere where it wants and shape the world to its own design. Naturally this superpower would be the US.
In order to achieve this aim it is necessary to dismantle the existing order of international relations. We've already seen this with Iraq and now we see it again with Kosovo. Who will be next?
All of this represents a grave danger to world security and stability. Fortunately we now have a resurgent Russia which seems willing to confront this re-ordering of the world. Even those who are unsure of the Russians should be grateful for this.
The issues at stake here are of absolutely huge significance so I would appreciate it if the K-Albanian posters would desist from the sneering and sarcastic remarks and actually address the points being made.
The US pushed for Kosovo recognition out of self interest because it divides
the EU, encourages ethnic seperatism in Russia, China India and other competitors and causes general chaos in many parts of the World. From all this the US hopes to benefit. All of this might slow the decline of the US empire but will not stop it. Kosovo is only a pawn in the bigger game.
Bosko
"Ultimately, it is a double-edged sword, and the other edge will bash them on the head some time," Putin said.
-I must admit that I am looking forward seeing other edge of the sword bashing them on the head, hope seeing very, very soon! I am enough of cowboy’s style behaviour and policy.
The Serbs have more than 90% public support in Russia plus we feel our guilt to betray you with Chernomirdyn's mission when the NATO was lacking bombs. Only the Serbs must have the will for resistance. Nothing is lost yet ! We all know that US hands are tied with two half lost wars and they are now unable to start the third one when you have Russia on your side.
All we know that EU is a club of raped nations with no will to defend their own interests. To say nothing of the American ones.
So the moment is quite good. Just give us a couple of weeks to quit with the presidential formalities to activate this long fight.
The Serbs must have no brakes, they must reject the half measures policy , they must not be half pregnant. You have to give full stop for every relations with all the states violating the International Law. Serbia must be unpredictable for the fat Europe. You must offer the EU to pay the price they are not ready to pay. This is the chance !
The Serbs should greenmail the West with closer relations with Russia and do the things they would not like you to do. One way or another some 90% of the world is silently backing Serbia.
Kosova independence is not a terrible precedent unless Russia wants to make it as such for its own egoistic interest.
--
Absolutely correct! Victory was handed to the Serbs and Russians before the battle began.
Kosovo will never be more than a quasi-puppet entity with the North and islands within loyal to Serbia. No UN, EU or offical international legitimacy. Nothing really changes there.
However, should the divided EU continue to push for some kind of internal legitimacy, Serbia and Russia can make this a precedent by recognising Republika Srpska, Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
These are friendly secessionists who have borders with us - so legitimacy will be internal. Other secessionist regimes will start to demand the same so will begin to spiral.
Territories with partial recognition will be scattered around the world. This will be another victory for Russia and Serbia, as that was our warning to the world!
Also, the Serbs will be largely united once again!
The US and its allies are fools - dangerous fools - if they believe that this is not going to have massive reverberations down the road. But then again, maybe this is what the US wants.
--
This is exactly what I have been asking myself. Is this the plan all along? To destablise the world and split it even further?
That then goes into the conspiracy theorists domain.
"Kosova independence is not a terrible precedent unless Russia wants to make it as such for its own egoistic interest.
(EA, 23 February 2008 11:18) "
The truly sad thing is that 'EA' probably doesn't even realise the inherent irony in his post.
'EA' chooses to ignore the precedent that recognising an independent Kosovo would set because he/she wants to see Kosovo independent.
I assume the US government chooses to do so because of the long-term viability of 'Bondsteel'.
Other countries that choose to ratify the K-albanians declaration of independence also have their own reasons.
And all of these reasons are short-sighted.
Russia opposes independence, and may have it's own short-term reasons for doing so. But it also has ONE Very Good Reason as well.
The justification behind all the calls for independence for Kosovo appears to be to punish the serbs for their treatment of K-albanians up to this point, as well as for the deaths of some thousands's in the late nineties.
Casualty figures for WWII vary, but most cite a figure of...
55,000,000+ thats FIFTY FIVE MILLION or more...
depending on the source being used (Wikipedia's was the highest I found at 72M).
Of those deaths, the Russian toll was TWENTY MILLION plus.
And that IS one-hell-of-a reason.
After WWII, the nations of the world decided that such a war must NEVER EVER happen again. Towards this end, the UN was formed, and the UN charter enacted.
The UN charter incorporated the principles that a nation states sovereignty & territory were inviolate. The Helsinki Act of 1975 further guarantees a nation states borders. All members of the UN are signatories.
Since 1948, while there have been nations that have violated this charter, this hasn't affected the charter itself - thus limiting the scale of the warfare.
That's about to change for a precedent is indeed about to be set.
The pro-independence US camp states that this is a 'unique' case that doesn't set a precedent. And that claim is utter nonsense - nothing but spin.
If one faction's 'case of succession' states that 'such-and-such' reason constitutes a 'unique' case, & won't be repeated, & thus sets no precedent, then what's to stop another faction stating that
a 'different set' of reasons constitutes a 'different unique' case, which also won't be repeated, & thus also set no precedent.
The mere fact that a faction is able to cite that its 'case for succession' is unique, & thus bypasses the UN charter, sets its own precedent.
Every and I do mean EVERY case of seccession can then be sponsored by one country or another citing the above, which renders the UN charter meaningless.
And THAT is the danger.
Whether Russia's motives are pure or Russia's motives are selfish is immaterial - in this instance, Russia is Right.
There must NEVER EVER be another World War.
Whatever its other failings, in this the UN has succeeded.
I think you'll find it is a precedent, and for areas which had more rights to be independent to begin with and those who waited years upon years to get it.
Those have seen that through violence push or bribing they'll be able to achieve their goal.
Those who never had any lawful rights to separate, like Albanians will learn that International law can be ignored at will, and violated at any time.
Russia has nothing to do with this. It will come back and bite America, Britain and France.
Plus, considering what is happening in Kosovo now, Mitrovica will join up with mother Serbia. Under the law made by your masters Americans, Kosovo (or what is left of it) cannot join to Albania.
Whatever bit is left, After Mitrovica separates will be unstable, as it is at the moment, and the whole region will collapse.
Assuming that the Mitrovica does not join up with Serbia, KosovO will remain the unstable in a downward spiral and eventually collapse.
People through the history tried this before. They tried imposed borders, they tried erasing of history, and the one point remains - none of those are sustainable or lasting.
Many people are blaming the US for what is transpiring in the the former Yugo and rightfully so! As an American of Serbian origin I will not defend the actions of my birth country, there is nothing I can say to justify these UGLY actions. What I will point out is this; take a look at what is happened since the two Germany's united. It is a mirror image of what Germany and its allies did to Yugoslavia during the WWII occupation, minus the overt aggressive extermination of the Serbian people. The only difference is that it has been done in a passive-aggressive manner with the US/UK and France (former allies of the Serbs) as the front men to shield the fact that Germany is behind all of this. It has also taken a longer time because of the more "passive" approach, but the results are nearly the same. I am not defending the Anglo-Ameri nasty involvement, what I am trying to point out is the puppet master behind the scene, GERMANY! The everlasting SHAME of America and Britain for turning on their long-time allies in favor of their long-time enemy, only God himself has reserved judgement! The lack of national character it takes to accomplish these heinous actions is beyond comprehension and is surely a sign of their downfall, but they are merely pawns in this final act to their everlasting condemnation. May God uphold the Serbs, Russians and everyone who loves truth, justice and freedom in these dark days!
EA, it's an illegal precedent, 1244! Martin kinda like tyhe US did! Arbin, just wait till Pristina comes for the North, and when they can't get it, watch the violation of human rights by Albanians against Serbs start again. Sirius Black, the K-Alb had a choice in those wars and they decided to back the enemy and Hitler, does SS Skanderberg ring a bell. Arti, stop hateing, Serbia will be fine it's the Albanians that need to worry. That is when US gets what they want and lose intrest then drop the the k-Alb like a sack of potatos. LONG LIVE SERBIA!!! KOSOVO IS SERBIA!!! CCCC!!!
You said :
"Ronald you keep forgeting that compare to USA population Indians or natives are a handfull and are exempt from paying federal tax+ they are not beaten every day or opressed at all. They are free as a bird. Your compariosn is null and void."
Wel just because they are small in numbers they have no right???
Do you actually know why they are small in numbers??
Because they where MASS-MURDERD by the americans and forced to live in small reservats which could not sustain an large population.
The entire US belonged to the Indians, not an smallpart, the entire CONTINENT was theire's and they where great in numbers before it was colonized.
You should really try to get to an non-US sponserd school, cuz youre clearly indoctrinated by the US.
Russians never would attempt to confront West for Serbia because of the following reasons:
1) Trade interest with EU and USA.
2) Lack of power towards West … Russians are so eager to be considered part of decision making, but as you witness, they are far away to reach this goal:)
So very well said. Well done brother.
Sincerely,
Sirius Black
===========================
ORTHODOX.RU
How do you know what we Russian want and how do we react !!! We really have the EU as the number 1 trade partner. But they are much more interested in such relations than we are. Nothing made by the Europeans is so unique that you cannot buy it from Korea ,China or Japan.
Your second mistake is that we are not strong enough to wipe out of the surface both the US and the EU in one day. You better read the American papers where nobody doubts it. So Serbia with Russia on her side is untouchable !
Forget about Chernomirdin and Eltsin and don't be a prisoner of your own imagination. Some 2500 missiles including 50-megatonn thermobombs are still aimed at you day and night.
Better think what you will do this summer when Russia heads the gas-OPEC with Serbia as an important chain in its transportation system !
So the Albanian propagandists claim Kosovo deserves independence because of some brutal crackdown on seperatists.
Tell me, how does that differ from the half a million refugees is Serbia that came from Srpska Republika Krajina (Croatia)? They were brutally cleansed by US backed Croatian forces in operation storm! The puppet Croatian generals and commanders are also in the Hague facing severe war crime charges!
Of course the difference is that the US doesn't really care. It only does what it wants and is more concerned about Camp Bondsteel than Albanians.
Croatia would now be wise to accept the refugees back and offer them autonomy.
The world is saying NO to the US and only a handful of its servants have recognised Kosovo while others, even those being arm twisting and pressured, are beginning to hesitate and resist!
I don't like you (Serbs) that's true but I don't hate you
.
.
peace to all!!!
(arti, 23 February 2008 19:24)
1) Are you so sure, arti, there is no Serb in your family, you did the genetic research, right?
For instance, I am not sure, we had no Albanian or no Zulu in our family at one point.
2) Your first statement and the last statement ("peace") is oxymoron.
3) I can say, I don't like Albanian ultra-nationalism, but the Serbian one is not my favorite either. So far on this forum (and not just there) I do see more of Albanian ultra-nationalism than any other combined. This is not civilized, sorry.
You guys should go back to point zero with your relationship with Serbs otherwise no "independence" will help, even if you are backed by all American, Russian and Chinese army combined. Same should apply to Serbs, but the stance of even most radical Serbs here is much more civilized, it's like day and night compared with the most moderate Albanians around here.
I did see moderate Albanians tough, they are just somewhat rare breed.
It is really appalling how B92 is allowing some of the comments to be published here.
Bashing someone over their head with a sword in my book constitutes a murder. Some might argue that it is only a figure of speech but nevertheless it shouldn't be allowed.
Equally a few days ago, I read a lot of comments about k-albanians forming a muslim state. What is wrong with someone being a muslim? It is a religion equally as good or as bad as all other religions. Besides not all k-albanians are muslims, around 20% are christians.
I urge B92 to look a bit more carefully next time it allows offensive comments to appear on this forum.
Ronald you keep forgeting that compare to USA population Indians or natives are a handfull and are exempt from paying federal tax+ they are not beaten every day or opressed at all. They are free as a bird. Your compariosn is null and void.
Other former Yug republics received recogniton after they declared Independence but not on the level/speed that Kosova has from major developed countries.
Will see what future will bring.
One thing I agree with putin. Russian interests for making balkans russain territory and liquidation of Albanians has been broken. Hunting season on albanians is over. Time for considering albanians as rabbits is over.
The Serbs have more than 90% public support in Russia
(orthodox, 23 February 2008 21:27)
And by the way 100% public support of the entire Russian immigrant scene abroad. Also majority of Americans, strong majority of Canadiens, overwhelming majority of ordinary Germans.
Recent violent attacks in Serbia have just enforced the support of Independece of Kosova. This clearly indicates who is generating conflicts in the region. Actions talk louder than words, keep causing further inappropriate actions and violence, as this is describing yesterday's and today's Serbia. I am suprised how some appear still to be immature, and are not used to Russian game. Putin & Russia doesn't care for Independece of Kosova neither for Serbia as well. He is just playing smart to buy Serbian public companies and to control the market in Serbia for solely Russian interests. Russians never would attempt to confront West for Serbia because of the following reasons:
1) Trade interest with EU and USA.
2) Lack of power towards West Russians are so eager to be considered part of decision making, but as you witness, they are far away to reach this goal:)
Are these the same 'smart' people behind the Iraqi quagmire?
Your interpretation is the same as that of the US who'll spin words ad infinitum in order to justify their actions.
Besides which, you're missing the point mate.
The fact that that specific clause concerning the Helsinki act is in the pre-amble of UN resolution 1244 specifically re-inforces what is a states basic right under the UN charter itself.
The whole idea behind the UN was to prevent another World War - especially in Europe. The charter was written for this purpose. That, all on it's own, makes what the US is doing illegal.
Sirius Black:
'bmrusila' was I think, actually talking about the US, not K-albanians per se.
And this is a forum for all.
Oh, & as for choice, if the US does get away with this, you won't have any choice at all - either in regard to who has ultimate authority in Kosovo, or a possible future merger with Albania - Bondsteel's presence won't allow it.
Arden:
If you're talking about the 100 drunken yahoo's involved in the attack on the US embassy, they represented something like 0.05% of the protestors on that day. The vast majority were peaceful.
Tell me please, what was the percentage of peaceful K-albanian protestors in 2004?
I think you'll find it is a precedent, and for areas which had more rights to be independent to begin with and those who waited years upon years to get it.
Those have seen that through violence push or bribing they'll be able to achieve their goal.
Those who never had any lawful rights to separate, like Albanians will learn that International law can be ignored at will, and violated at any time.
Russia has nothing to do with this. It will come back and bite America, Britain and France.
Plus, considering what is happening in Kosovo now, Mitrovica will join up with mother Serbia. Under the law made by your masters Americans, Kosovo (or what is left of it) cannot join to Albania.
Whatever bit is left, After Mitrovica separates will be unstable, as it is at the moment, and the whole region will collapse.
Assuming that the Mitrovica does not join up with Serbia, KosovO will remain the unstable in a downward spiral and eventually collapse.
People through the history tried this before. They tried imposed borders, they tried erasing of history, and the one point remains - none of those are sustainable or lasting.
(BKK, 23 February 2008 12:36)
Well BKK maybe the serbs in Mitrovica will try and attach to the Serbian motherland? But that will be opening pandoras bow, thats something neither European country or even Balkan country wants? You are trying start new Balkan wars again. You have Albanian majorities in Preshevo, Medvegj and Bujanovac. They too want to be to mother Kosova? You have the Albanians in Macedonia? The Serbs in Republika SRPSKA? The Hungarians in Vojvodina the Vlachs to the eastern part of Serbia the Bulgariens in Romanania? Albanian and Serbs in Montenegro, Serbs in Croatia and Slovenia? Even Greece will have some problem with the Albanian in their northeastern part?
These are the geografical factors off Balkan and if you Serbs agree with the serbs in Mitrovica this is opening something bigger?
Albanian have been in kosova preer than the Slavic people have you herd off Dardania? The only thing we got from the Ottoman empires downfall was a lot of troubles because the super powers acted wrong in the begining? these errors have been made better by the independence of Kosova? it doesnt mean that everybody is happy but at least now we have a stability in the Balkans?
if the Serbs decide to enter the EU Kosova is going too meet jo there, Slovenia, Albania, bosnia, Romania, Bulgaria, Grecce, Macedonia and Montenegro. And the borders will open again? We had the Yugoslav Republic were we lived side by side. But Serbs dreamt of greater Serbia and destroyed the 6 biggest power in the world? You murded the diffrent people of the Yugoslav empire and understand the fact that its imposible to them to reunite with you?
Your Prime minister held a speech in Beograd about Kosova for Kosova? but did he say a word in Albanian we are 90% of the population? When we proclaimnd our independence we did it also in Serbian languge do to respect the Serb minority in Kosova?
The international order will only break up if you want it to break up, Putin! With that kind of rhetoric you're not exactly helping!
If we let ourselves be cool headed for a minute we can see that resolution 1244 was formulated in a much cannier way than Putin would like us to believe. Firstly, the clause that 'establishes' Kosovo as an integral part of Serbia is found only in the pre-ambule of the document, and the pre-ambule under UN regulations has no legal force. Secondly, 1244 clearly states that if a decision cannot be reached in the Security Council, Kosovo's status must be settled otherwise.
There is no need for a second SC resolution in order to overrule the first one! When 1244 was drafted in 1999, do you really think Nato would be so stupid as to give Russia a chance to veto Kosovo's future status? Well, they weren't and from a legalist point of view, the resolution 1244 is compatible with the Unilateral Declaration of Independence.
The only thing Russia can do is blow things out of proportion in order to engineer an international crisis and give credence to pro-Moscow separatist movements close to her own territory.
We Albanians have a saying "The one eat the cookies, somebody's teeth go bad":)keep listening Russia,you'll see what good Serbia will have.
Serbs posters here keep calleng as puppets of the USA,EU,what about you?? aren't you puppets of the Russia?? ah sorry,I forgot, u Serbs are special,it only apply to Albanians,like respecting the international laws.
Good look with Russia,Iran,Venezuela etc...sorry i forgot vietnam too.:)
Abraham Lincoln was fond of asking the rhetorical question: "If you call a tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have? Five? No, calling a tail a leg don't make it a leg."
That pretty much sums up the recent unilateral declaration of independence by Albanian Muslims in the Serbian province of Kosovo. Several countries, disgracefully led by the United States, have recognized Kosovo. Major media have hailed creation of the "world's newest country." But calling Kosovo a country doesn't make it one.
Kosova's independence comes after decades of Serbian brutal oppression.
Kosova's independence in itself is a compromise solution that will bring peace and stability in the Balkans and will also make Serbia independent, so that their economy can progress and Serbia can enjoy benefits of EU and of a peaceful Balkans where everybody should have a place as free human beings.
Serbia should be very careful with the tendencies of Putin to exploit Serbian feelings for its own economic and strategic interests. He is giving wrong hopes to Serbian people and would prefer to have them fight and go as much as possible away from EU and be depended on Russia in the same way as Belarus does.
Russians never would attempt to confront West for Serbia because of the following reasons:
1) Trade interest with EU and USA.
2) Lack of power towards West … Russians are so eager to be considered part of decision making, but as you witness, they are far away to reach this goal:)
My Serbian friends! I'm from the UK, and i would like to make it clear that not everyone here condones the independence of Kosovo, I certainly do not!
However, I would like to my feelings towards Mr. Putin known. Here goes...Dictator, egoistic, war monger, generally very unpleasent and not to be trusted. I find it hard to think that intelligent Serbs would be fooled into believing that Putin really cares about Orthodox Slavic links. Of course he doesn't. For him this is about Russian ambitions in Europe. He will use Serbia as a pawn, which will eventually leave Serbia high and dry. I mean look at Russia or USSR as it was with its old friend Cuba. When the missile crisis was over and Cuba no longer served a purpose, Russia dropped them. They will do the same with Serbia. Russia was also quick enough to sell out to Hitler, as far as Poland and Czechoslovakia were concerned. Need i say more? I'm sorry if i have gone on, but i really don't want to see Serbia suffer anymore than it has or is already.
Good luck Serbia, here's one of many westerners who backs you.
delije; I don't like you (Serbs) that's true but I don't hate you,hate is a radical thing wich I'm not,I'm just talking about what's really happening in the balcans,facts and fiction are two differnt things,if you think that by burning embassies and relaying in Russians u'll rule or like you like saying get back Kosova,you're dead wrong!! Russians warned they will do a lot of things if Kosova-Albanians declare independence and whoever recognize as,well...the ball is in their field,do and don't just talk,talk is cheap!!
peace to all!!!
Kosovar Independence it was a long overdue and it was necessary. The Kosova Albanian's and other nationalities have suffered from ethnic cleansing, discrimination and famine under the Serbian regime. It is not only right but proper to recognize their independence.
The Kosovar’s did not get justice since the mastermind of ethnic cleansing Slobodan Milosevic, died before his trial at The Hague released a verdict. The latest nationalist and extremist developments in Serbia that shows that the spirit of Milosevic is still alive and who are the violent nation in Balkans that caused all the wars during the 90's in the Former Yugoslavia.
Russia and China may not recognize the newest country in the world because of their personal interests in Kosovo claiming technicalities and breaches in the international law. However the strong backing of US, UN and EU member nations legitimize Kosovos independence.
Kosova’s Independence that was the only way forward.
Bosko, yes, there is a wider goal for the USA in this issue... but.. why would the big european powers, including the ones who founded it, go with the usa in dividing the EU?
Also, if kosovo is a puppet state, it goes to say the serbia is also a puppet state, only on the other side. You can't deny that.
Martin, is that really so? I've never heard that line of argument before, but it should be pretty easy to verify, no? Has B92 written anything on it? Where did you get that information? It would be crucial to know exactly what 1244 stipulates..
I don't see ur point?? what my genetics have to do with my above comment? As far I'm concerned about my nationality I can go back at least 600 hundred years back as an Albanian,originaly from today's kraj montenegro,my grandfather was forced to leave the house and everything in 1911 by serbo-montegrins and setled in Albania,in 1990 after several court hearings and fatige we got the house and the land back (of course the house wasn't like we left),I hope you'll understand why I said " I don't like you (Serbs)"
Now,I never said that I'm 100% Albanian,never know,nothing is 100%,I don't know about you ...you maybe are 100%,acording to your nickname I woulk exepect only a turk or arab to be called ataman,.
Its'nt my fault that you did'n get the point of my above comment.
again peace to all!
hope you don't get upset this time:)
Russia would not be behaving in any way less morally by recognizing Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Transnistria and Nagorno-Karabakh than the US and EU by recognizing Kosovo.
Indeed Kosovo is a "sui generis" case, but fundamentally speaking, it was done outside the UNSC, why shouldn't the others?
yeah, tell them Putin and strat the WWIII, that will provide us all a better life..
I just feel stupid and pity for and naive Serbian people that always have to be part of something like this...
And, yes Im really sick of the Serb patriots from USA and other countries.. if you really like your mother land so much, why dont you go back...
just please stop your long- distance best wishes, youre not helping nobody....
so b92, let's get this str8t - writing "i can't wait to see them bash em on the head w/the other end of the sword" (paraphrased) is fine and acceptABLE, whereas our comments that disagree with the ultranationalist persepctive are to be censored?! and where exactly did yr people go to journalism school? the official belarus school of free media?? what is wrong with you people?! are you so blinded by hate and nationalism that you have to channel an "open" discussion to fit yr narrow politics, and allow/encourage bullying, put-downs, ethnic/rascist hate speech every single day?! did you ever think that people around the world read these forums? and because you win a few awards (because for a serbian media outlet you aren't too awful) -- therefore you think you can do anything you want and pretend to be extraordinary? it is so sick, as serbia devoles into an orgy of xenophobia, hatred and bitterness, b-92 is always there to promote the agenda.
a little less self-congratulating and a bit more self-criticism is in order.
It is really appalling how B92 is allowing some of the comments to be published here.
Bashing someone over their head with a sword in my book constitutes a murder. Some might argue that it is only a figure of speech but nevertheless it shouldn't be allowed.
Equally a few days ago, I read a lot of comments about k-albanians forming a muslim state. What is wrong with someone being a muslim? It is a religion equally as good or as bad as all other religions. Besides not all k-albanians are muslims, around 20% are christians.
I urge B92 to look a bit more carefully next time it allows offensive comments to appear on this forum.
Kosova's independence comes after decades of Serbian brutal oppression.
Kosova's independence in itself is a compromise solution that will bring peace and stability in the Balkans and will also make Serbia independent, so that their economy can progress and Serbia can enjoy benefits of EU and of a peaceful Balkans where everybody should have a place as free human beings.
Serbia should be very careful with the tendencies of Putin to exploit Serbian feelings for its own economic and strategic interests. He is giving wrong hopes to Serbian people and would prefer to have them fight and go as much as possible away from EU and be depended on Russia in the same way as Belarus does.
The international order will only break up if you want it to break up, Putin! With that kind of rhetoric you're not exactly helping!
If we let ourselves be cool headed for a minute we can see that resolution 1244 was formulated in a much cannier way than Putin would like us to believe. Firstly, the clause that 'establishes' Kosovo as an integral part of Serbia is found only in the pre-ambule of the document, and the pre-ambule under UN regulations has no legal force. Secondly, 1244 clearly states that if a decision cannot be reached in the Security Council, Kosovo's status must be settled otherwise.
There is no need for a second SC resolution in order to overrule the first one! When 1244 was drafted in 1999, do you really think Nato would be so stupid as to give Russia a chance to veto Kosovo's future status? Well, they weren't and from a legalist point of view, the resolution 1244 is compatible with the Unilateral Declaration of Independence.
The only thing Russia can do is blow things out of proportion in order to engineer an international crisis and give credence to pro-Moscow separatist movements close to her own territory.
Recent violent attacks in Serbia have just enforced the support of Independece of Kosova. This clearly indicates who is generating conflicts in the region. Actions talk louder than words, keep causing further inappropriate actions and violence, as this is describing yesterday's and today's Serbia. I am suprised how some appear still to be immature, and are not used to Russian game. Putin & Russia doesn't care for Independece of Kosova neither for Serbia as well. He is just playing smart to buy Serbian public companies and to control the market in Serbia for solely Russian interests. Russians never would attempt to confront West for Serbia because of the following reasons:
1) Trade interest with EU and USA.
2) Lack of power towards West Russians are so eager to be considered part of decision making, but as you witness, they are far away to reach this goal:)
Russians never would attempt to confront West for Serbia because of the following reasons:
1) Trade interest with EU and USA.
2) Lack of power towards West … Russians are so eager to be considered part of decision making, but as you witness, they are far away to reach this goal:)
One thing I agree with putin. Russian interests for making balkans russain territory and liquidation of Albanians has been broken. Hunting season on albanians is over. Time for considering albanians as rabbits is over.
We Albanians have a saying "The one eat the cookies, somebody's teeth go bad":)keep listening Russia,you'll see what good Serbia will have.
Serbs posters here keep calleng as puppets of the USA,EU,what about you?? aren't you puppets of the Russia?? ah sorry,I forgot, u Serbs are special,it only apply to Albanians,like respecting the international laws.
Good look with Russia,Iran,Venezuela etc...sorry i forgot vietnam too.:)
delije; I don't like you (Serbs) that's true but I don't hate you,hate is a radical thing wich I'm not,I'm just talking about what's really happening in the balcans,facts and fiction are two differnt things,if you think that by burning embassies and relaying in Russians u'll rule or like you like saying get back Kosova,you're dead wrong!! Russians warned they will do a lot of things if Kosova-Albanians declare independence and whoever recognize as,well...the ball is in their field,do and don't just talk,talk is cheap!!
peace to all!!!
yeah, tell them Putin and strat the WWIII, that will provide us all a better life..
I just feel stupid and pity for and naive Serbian people that always have to be part of something like this...
And, yes Im really sick of the Serb patriots from USA and other countries.. if you really like your mother land so much, why dont you go back...
just please stop your long- distance best wishes, youre not helping nobody....
"Ultimately, it is a double-edged sword, and the other edge will bash them on the head some time," Putin said.
-I must admit that I am looking forward seeing other edge of the sword bashing them on the head, hope seeing very, very soon! I am enough of cowboy’s style behaviour and policy.
Ronald you keep forgeting that compare to USA population Indians or natives are a handfull and are exempt from paying federal tax+ they are not beaten every day or opressed at all. They are free as a bird. Your compariosn is null and void.
Other former Yug republics received recogniton after they declared Independence but not on the level/speed that Kosova has from major developed countries.
Will see what future will bring.
Kosovar Independence it was a long overdue and it was necessary. The Kosova Albanian's and other nationalities have suffered from ethnic cleansing, discrimination and famine under the Serbian regime. It is not only right but proper to recognize their independence.
The Kosovar’s did not get justice since the mastermind of ethnic cleansing Slobodan Milosevic, died before his trial at The Hague released a verdict. The latest nationalist and extremist developments in Serbia that shows that the spirit of Milosevic is still alive and who are the violent nation in Balkans that caused all the wars during the 90's in the Former Yugoslavia.
Russia and China may not recognize the newest country in the world because of their personal interests in Kosovo claiming technicalities and breaches in the international law. However the strong backing of US, UN and EU member nations legitimize Kosovos independence.
Kosova’s Independence that was the only way forward.
so b92, let's get this str8t - writing "i can't wait to see them bash em on the head w/the other end of the sword" (paraphrased) is fine and acceptABLE, whereas our comments that disagree with the ultranationalist persepctive are to be censored?! and where exactly did yr people go to journalism school? the official belarus school of free media?? what is wrong with you people?! are you so blinded by hate and nationalism that you have to channel an "open" discussion to fit yr narrow politics, and allow/encourage bullying, put-downs, ethnic/rascist hate speech every single day?! did you ever think that people around the world read these forums? and because you win a few awards (because for a serbian media outlet you aren't too awful) -- therefore you think you can do anything you want and pretend to be extraordinary? it is so sick, as serbia devoles into an orgy of xenophobia, hatred and bitterness, b-92 is always there to promote the agenda.
a little less self-congratulating and a bit more self-criticism is in order.
Bosko, yes, there is a wider goal for the USA in this issue... but.. why would the big european powers, including the ones who founded it, go with the usa in dividing the EU?
Also, if kosovo is a puppet state, it goes to say the serbia is also a puppet state, only on the other side. You can't deny that.
I think you'll find it is a precedent, and for areas which had more rights to be independent to begin with and those who waited years upon years to get it.
Those have seen that through violence push or bribing they'll be able to achieve their goal.
Those who never had any lawful rights to separate, like Albanians will learn that International law can be ignored at will, and violated at any time.
Russia has nothing to do with this. It will come back and bite America, Britain and France.
Plus, considering what is happening in Kosovo now, Mitrovica will join up with mother Serbia. Under the law made by your masters Americans, Kosovo (or what is left of it) cannot join to Albania.
Whatever bit is left, After Mitrovica separates will be unstable, as it is at the moment, and the whole region will collapse.
Assuming that the Mitrovica does not join up with Serbia, KosovO will remain the unstable in a downward spiral and eventually collapse.
People through the history tried this before. They tried imposed borders, they tried erasing of history, and the one point remains - none of those are sustainable or lasting.
(BKK, 23 February 2008 12:36)
Well BKK maybe the serbs in Mitrovica will try and attach to the Serbian motherland? But that will be opening pandoras bow, thats something neither European country or even Balkan country wants? You are trying start new Balkan wars again. You have Albanian majorities in Preshevo, Medvegj and Bujanovac. They too want to be to mother Kosova? You have the Albanians in Macedonia? The Serbs in Republika SRPSKA? The Hungarians in Vojvodina the Vlachs to the eastern part of Serbia the Bulgariens in Romanania? Albanian and Serbs in Montenegro, Serbs in Croatia and Slovenia? Even Greece will have some problem with the Albanian in their northeastern part?
These are the geografical factors off Balkan and if you Serbs agree with the serbs in Mitrovica this is opening something bigger?
Albanian have been in kosova preer than the Slavic people have you herd off Dardania? The only thing we got from the Ottoman empires downfall was a lot of troubles because the super powers acted wrong in the begining? these errors have been made better by the independence of Kosova? it doesnt mean that everybody is happy but at least now we have a stability in the Balkans?
if the Serbs decide to enter the EU Kosova is going too meet jo there, Slovenia, Albania, bosnia, Romania, Bulgaria, Grecce, Macedonia and Montenegro. And the borders will open again? We had the Yugoslav Republic were we lived side by side. But Serbs dreamt of greater Serbia and destroyed the 6 biggest power in the world? You murded the diffrent people of the Yugoslav empire and understand the fact that its imposible to them to reunite with you?
Your Prime minister held a speech in Beograd about Kosova for Kosova? but did he say a word in Albanian we are 90% of the population? When we proclaimnd our independence we did it also in Serbian languge do to respect the Serb minority in Kosova?
My Serbian friends! I'm from the UK, and i would like to make it clear that not everyone here condones the independence of Kosovo, I certainly do not!
However, I would like to my feelings towards Mr. Putin known. Here goes...Dictator, egoistic, war monger, generally very unpleasent and not to be trusted. I find it hard to think that intelligent Serbs would be fooled into believing that Putin really cares about Orthodox Slavic links. Of course he doesn't. For him this is about Russian ambitions in Europe. He will use Serbia as a pawn, which will eventually leave Serbia high and dry. I mean look at Russia or USSR as it was with its old friend Cuba. When the missile crisis was over and Cuba no longer served a purpose, Russia dropped them. They will do the same with Serbia. Russia was also quick enough to sell out to Hitler, as far as Poland and Czechoslovakia were concerned. Need i say more? I'm sorry if i have gone on, but i really don't want to see Serbia suffer anymore than it has or is already.
Good luck Serbia, here's one of many westerners who backs you.
I don't see ur point?? what my genetics have to do with my above comment? As far I'm concerned about my nationality I can go back at least 600 hundred years back as an Albanian,originaly from today's kraj montenegro,my grandfather was forced to leave the house and everything in 1911 by serbo-montegrins and setled in Albania,in 1990 after several court hearings and fatige we got the house and the land back (of course the house wasn't like we left),I hope you'll understand why I said " I don't like you (Serbs)"
Now,I never said that I'm 100% Albanian,never know,nothing is 100%,I don't know about you ...you maybe are 100%,acording to your nickname I woulk exepect only a turk or arab to be called ataman,.
Its'nt my fault that you did'n get the point of my above comment.
again peace to all!
hope you don't get upset this time:)
Kosovo is an terrible precedent, if the K-Albanians have the opinion that due to the oppression off the Serbs they deserve independence, then can you tell me why the native americans (also know as the indians) do not deserve to get back what was taken from them by the Americans, may i remind you that the Americans almost completly wiped out the Indians.
And further more, why did the US wage it's bloodiest war against another part of the US that wished independence from the rest (that conflict is also known as the US Civil war).
The US has double standards and this will eventually bite them in the ass, as the US is opposed to an independant state for the Kurds which have been prosecuted by the Turks, Iraqi's and iran.
Actually the US is surpressing the wish of the Kurds in Iraq to become independent, you know the Kurds that have been attack by Saddam Hussein with poison gas, you know the Saddam Hussain who gained power in Irak with the help off the US, that same Saddam Hussain that was encouraged by the US to start an war against Iran with an estimated death toll of 1.600.000 people.
The US forgein policy has been responsible for al lot off death's since WW2 and this will eventually come back to bite them.
Maybe it;s time to bring the US for an international court and make them pay for theire deeds
"The independence of Kosovo is a terrible precedent. In effect, it breaks up the entire system of international relations, a system that has taken not even decades but centuries to evolve,"
President Putin is absolutely correct here. The concepts of the "nation state" and "sovereignty" really began with the Treaty of Westphalia in 1648. The most recent updates to these concepts are the UN Charter (1945) and the Helsinki Final Accords (1975).
It is this huge body of international law that is now being overturned by the declaration of independence by Kosovo and its recognition by various countries. The US and its allies are fools - dangerous fools - if they believe that this is not going to have massive reverberations down the road. But then again, maybe this is what the US wants.
Those who are not familiar with it should check out the "Project for the New American Century". This was a US think-tank formed in the nineties by such neo-cons as Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle and Douglas Feith. All went on to become major personalities in the the current US administration.
It envisaged this New World Order that we are all familiar with - basically a Planet Earth with only one superpower and with the right of this superpower to interfere where it wants and shape the world to its own design. Naturally this superpower would be the US.
In order to achieve this aim it is necessary to dismantle the existing order of international relations. We've already seen this with Iraq and now we see it again with Kosovo. Who will be next?
All of this represents a grave danger to world security and stability. Fortunately we now have a resurgent Russia which seems willing to confront this re-ordering of the world. Even those who are unsure of the Russians should be grateful for this.
The issues at stake here are of absolutely huge significance so I would appreciate it if the K-Albanian posters would desist from the sneering and sarcastic remarks and actually address the points being made.
I think you'll find it is a precedent, and for areas which had more rights to be independent to begin with and those who waited years upon years to get it.
Those have seen that through violence push or bribing they'll be able to achieve their goal.
Those who never had any lawful rights to separate, like Albanians will learn that International law can be ignored at will, and violated at any time.
Russia has nothing to do with this. It will come back and bite America, Britain and France.
Plus, considering what is happening in Kosovo now, Mitrovica will join up with mother Serbia. Under the law made by your masters Americans, Kosovo (or what is left of it) cannot join to Albania.
Whatever bit is left, After Mitrovica separates will be unstable, as it is at the moment, and the whole region will collapse.
Assuming that the Mitrovica does not join up with Serbia, KosovO will remain the unstable in a downward spiral and eventually collapse.
People through the history tried this before. They tried imposed borders, they tried erasing of history, and the one point remains - none of those are sustainable or lasting.
The US pushed for Kosovo recognition out of self interest because it divides
the EU, encourages ethnic seperatism in Russia, China India and other competitors and causes general chaos in many parts of the World. From all this the US hopes to benefit. All of this might slow the decline of the US empire but will not stop it. Kosovo is only a pawn in the bigger game.
Bosko
Kosova independence is not a terrible precedent unless Russia wants to make it as such for its own egoistic interest.
--
Absolutely correct! Victory was handed to the Serbs and Russians before the battle began.
Kosovo will never be more than a quasi-puppet entity with the North and islands within loyal to Serbia. No UN, EU or offical international legitimacy. Nothing really changes there.
However, should the divided EU continue to push for some kind of internal legitimacy, Serbia and Russia can make this a precedent by recognising Republika Srpska, Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
These are friendly secessionists who have borders with us - so legitimacy will be internal. Other secessionist regimes will start to demand the same so will begin to spiral.
Territories with partial recognition will be scattered around the world. This will be another victory for Russia and Serbia, as that was our warning to the world!
Also, the Serbs will be largely united once again!
The US and its allies are fools - dangerous fools - if they believe that this is not going to have massive reverberations down the road. But then again, maybe this is what the US wants.
--
This is exactly what I have been asking myself. Is this the plan all along? To destablise the world and split it even further?
That then goes into the conspiracy theorists domain.
Martin, is that really so? I've never heard that line of argument before, but it should be pretty easy to verify, no? Has B92 written anything on it? Where did you get that information? It would be crucial to know exactly what 1244 stipulates..
"Kosova independence is not a terrible precedent unless Russia wants to make it as such for its own egoistic interest.
(EA, 23 February 2008 11:18) "
The truly sad thing is that 'EA' probably doesn't even realise the inherent irony in his post.
'EA' chooses to ignore the precedent that recognising an independent Kosovo would set because he/she wants to see Kosovo independent.
I assume the US government chooses to do so because of the long-term viability of 'Bondsteel'.
Other countries that choose to ratify the K-albanians declaration of independence also have their own reasons.
And all of these reasons are short-sighted.
Russia opposes independence, and may have it's own short-term reasons for doing so. But it also has ONE Very Good Reason as well.
The justification behind all the calls for independence for Kosovo appears to be to punish the serbs for their treatment of K-albanians up to this point, as well as for the deaths of some thousands's in the late nineties.
Casualty figures for WWII vary, but most cite a figure of...
55,000,000+ thats FIFTY FIVE MILLION or more...
depending on the source being used (Wikipedia's was the highest I found at 72M).
Of those deaths, the Russian toll was TWENTY MILLION plus.
And that IS one-hell-of-a reason.
After WWII, the nations of the world decided that such a war must NEVER EVER happen again. Towards this end, the UN was formed, and the UN charter enacted.
The UN charter incorporated the principles that a nation states sovereignty & territory were inviolate. The Helsinki Act of 1975 further guarantees a nation states borders. All members of the UN are signatories.
Since 1948, while there have been nations that have violated this charter, this hasn't affected the charter itself - thus limiting the scale of the warfare.
That's about to change for a precedent is indeed about to be set.
The pro-independence US camp states that this is a 'unique' case that doesn't set a precedent. And that claim is utter nonsense - nothing but spin.
If one faction's 'case of succession' states that 'such-and-such' reason constitutes a 'unique' case, & won't be repeated, & thus sets no precedent, then what's to stop another faction stating that
a 'different set' of reasons constitutes a 'different unique' case, which also won't be repeated, & thus also set no precedent.
The mere fact that a faction is able to cite that its 'case for succession' is unique, & thus bypasses the UN charter, sets its own precedent.
Every and I do mean EVERY case of seccession can then be sponsored by one country or another citing the above, which renders the UN charter meaningless.
And THAT is the danger.
Whether Russia's motives are pure or Russia's motives are selfish is immaterial - in this instance, Russia is Right.
There must NEVER EVER be another World War.
Whatever its other failings, in this the UN has succeeded.
You said :
"Ronald you keep forgeting that compare to USA population Indians or natives are a handfull and are exempt from paying federal tax+ they are not beaten every day or opressed at all. They are free as a bird. Your compariosn is null and void."
Wel just because they are small in numbers they have no right???
Do you actually know why they are small in numbers??
Because they where MASS-MURDERD by the americans and forced to live in small reservats which could not sustain an large population.
The entire US belonged to the Indians, not an smallpart, the entire CONTINENT was theire's and they where great in numbers before it was colonized.
You should really try to get to an non-US sponserd school, cuz youre clearly indoctrinated by the US.
Are these the same 'smart' people behind the Iraqi quagmire?
Your interpretation is the same as that of the US who'll spin words ad infinitum in order to justify their actions.
Besides which, you're missing the point mate.
The fact that that specific clause concerning the Helsinki act is in the pre-amble of UN resolution 1244 specifically re-inforces what is a states basic right under the UN charter itself.
The whole idea behind the UN was to prevent another World War - especially in Europe. The charter was written for this purpose. That, all on it's own, makes what the US is doing illegal.
Sirius Black:
'bmrusila' was I think, actually talking about the US, not K-albanians per se.
And this is a forum for all.
Oh, & as for choice, if the US does get away with this, you won't have any choice at all - either in regard to who has ultimate authority in Kosovo, or a possible future merger with Albania - Bondsteel's presence won't allow it.
Arden:
If you're talking about the 100 drunken yahoo's involved in the attack on the US embassy, they represented something like 0.05% of the protestors on that day. The vast majority were peaceful.
Tell me please, what was the percentage of peaceful K-albanian protestors in 2004?
Many people are blaming the US for what is transpiring in the the former Yugo and rightfully so! As an American of Serbian origin I will not defend the actions of my birth country, there is nothing I can say to justify these UGLY actions. What I will point out is this; take a look at what is happened since the two Germany's united. It is a mirror image of what Germany and its allies did to Yugoslavia during the WWII occupation, minus the overt aggressive extermination of the Serbian people. The only difference is that it has been done in a passive-aggressive manner with the US/UK and France (former allies of the Serbs) as the front men to shield the fact that Germany is behind all of this. It has also taken a longer time because of the more "passive" approach, but the results are nearly the same. I am not defending the Anglo-Ameri nasty involvement, what I am trying to point out is the puppet master behind the scene, GERMANY! The everlasting SHAME of America and Britain for turning on their long-time allies in favor of their long-time enemy, only God himself has reserved judgement! The lack of national character it takes to accomplish these heinous actions is beyond comprehension and is surely a sign of their downfall, but they are merely pawns in this final act to their everlasting condemnation. May God uphold the Serbs, Russians and everyone who loves truth, justice and freedom in these dark days!
EA, it's an illegal precedent, 1244! Martin kinda like tyhe US did! Arbin, just wait till Pristina comes for the North, and when they can't get it, watch the violation of human rights by Albanians against Serbs start again. Sirius Black, the K-Alb had a choice in those wars and they decided to back the enemy and Hitler, does SS Skanderberg ring a bell. Arti, stop hateing, Serbia will be fine it's the Albanians that need to worry. That is when US gets what they want and lose intrest then drop the the k-Alb like a sack of potatos. LONG LIVE SERBIA!!! KOSOVO IS SERBIA!!! CCCC!!!
So the Albanian propagandists claim Kosovo deserves independence because of some brutal crackdown on seperatists.
Tell me, how does that differ from the half a million refugees is Serbia that came from Srpska Republika Krajina (Croatia)? They were brutally cleansed by US backed Croatian forces in operation storm! The puppet Croatian generals and commanders are also in the Hague facing severe war crime charges!
Of course the difference is that the US doesn't really care. It only does what it wants and is more concerned about Camp Bondsteel than Albanians.
Croatia would now be wise to accept the refugees back and offer them autonomy.
The world is saying NO to the US and only a handful of its servants have recognised Kosovo while others, even those being arm twisting and pressured, are beginning to hesitate and resist!
I don't like you (Serbs) that's true but I don't hate you
.
.
peace to all!!!
(arti, 23 February 2008 19:24)
1) Are you so sure, arti, there is no Serb in your family, you did the genetic research, right?
For instance, I am not sure, we had no Albanian or no Zulu in our family at one point.
2) Your first statement and the last statement ("peace") is oxymoron.
3) I can say, I don't like Albanian ultra-nationalism, but the Serbian one is not my favorite either. So far on this forum (and not just there) I do see more of Albanian ultra-nationalism than any other combined. This is not civilized, sorry.
You guys should go back to point zero with your relationship with Serbs otherwise no "independence" will help, even if you are backed by all American, Russian and Chinese army combined. Same should apply to Serbs, but the stance of even most radical Serbs here is much more civilized, it's like day and night compared with the most moderate Albanians around here.
I did see moderate Albanians tough, they are just somewhat rare breed.
The Serbs have more than 90% public support in Russia plus we feel our guilt to betray you with Chernomirdyn's mission when the NATO was lacking bombs. Only the Serbs must have the will for resistance. Nothing is lost yet ! We all know that US hands are tied with two half lost wars and they are now unable to start the third one when you have Russia on your side.
All we know that EU is a club of raped nations with no will to defend their own interests. To say nothing of the American ones.
So the moment is quite good. Just give us a couple of weeks to quit with the presidential formalities to activate this long fight.
The Serbs must have no brakes, they must reject the half measures policy , they must not be half pregnant. You have to give full stop for every relations with all the states violating the International Law. Serbia must be unpredictable for the fat Europe. You must offer the EU to pay the price they are not ready to pay. This is the chance !
The Serbs should greenmail the West with closer relations with Russia and do the things they would not like you to do. One way or another some 90% of the world is silently backing Serbia.
Russians never would attempt to confront West for Serbia because of the following reasons:
1) Trade interest with EU and USA.
2) Lack of power towards West … Russians are so eager to be considered part of decision making, but as you witness, they are far away to reach this goal:)
So very well said. Well done brother.
Sincerely,
Sirius Black
===========================
ORTHODOX.RU
How do you know what we Russian want and how do we react !!! We really have the EU as the number 1 trade partner. But they are much more interested in such relations than we are. Nothing made by the Europeans is so unique that you cannot buy it from Korea ,China or Japan.
Your second mistake is that we are not strong enough to wipe out of the surface both the US and the EU in one day. You better read the American papers where nobody doubts it. So Serbia with Russia on her side is untouchable !
Forget about Chernomirdin and Eltsin and don't be a prisoner of your own imagination. Some 2500 missiles including 50-megatonn thermobombs are still aimed at you day and night.
Better think what you will do this summer when Russia heads the gas-OPEC with Serbia as an important chain in its transportation system !
Abraham Lincoln was fond of asking the rhetorical question: "If you call a tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have? Five? No, calling a tail a leg don't make it a leg."
That pretty much sums up the recent unilateral declaration of independence by Albanian Muslims in the Serbian province of Kosovo. Several countries, disgracefully led by the United States, have recognized Kosovo. Major media have hailed creation of the "world's newest country." But calling Kosovo a country doesn't make it one.
The Serbs have more than 90% public support in Russia
(orthodox, 23 February 2008 21:27)
And by the way 100% public support of the entire Russian immigrant scene abroad. Also majority of Americans, strong majority of Canadiens, overwhelming majority of ordinary Germans.
Russia would not be behaving in any way less morally by recognizing Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Transnistria and Nagorno-Karabakh than the US and EU by recognizing Kosovo.
Indeed Kosovo is a "sui generis" case, but fundamentally speaking, it was done outside the UNSC, why shouldn't the others?
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