EU offers interim deal, signing on Feb. 7

It’s my guess that a handful of office juniors at EU embassies in Belgrade have been told by their superiors to go onto sites like this one to push the lie that the EU is all sweetness and light and that those outside the EU live in darkness and isolation.

Here is what the EU offers Serbia:

1.) Employment (1) 20,000 Serbian soldiers will be employed in EU “peacekeeping” missions around the world. These Serbian soldiers will be paid about 1/5th of the money paid to German and British “peacekeepers” and will be told to kill poor people who may never have heard of Serbia.
2.) Employment (2) a million Serbian workers (including the best educated and most skilled) will work in Western EU countries as Gasterbeiter. They will keep the streets and sewers clean and serve burgers at McDonalds.
3.) Infrastructure. The EU may subsidies the building of new roads which are needed to help German trucks to pass through Serbia more efficiently.
4.) Inward Investment. Working class Britons, Austrians and Germans will buy cheap holiday homes in Serbia, thereby causing the price of property in Serbia to quadruple. More and more Serbians will be unable to buy a home in their own country and will therefore have no alternative but to become homeless Gasterbeiter, the new Slaves of Western Europe.
5.) Immigration. With the influx of East Europeans workers into Western Europe, the Western EU nations will no longer need so many Third World immigrants. The constant flow of Third World immigrants into Western Europe will be diverted to the “under-populated” regions of Eastern Europe. Within ten years of EU membership, the towns of Vrsac, Pirot, Sombor and a hundred others in Serbia will resemble Leicester in England, a city of 300,000, two-thirds of whom are neither European nor Christian.

If the EU is such a wonderful thing, why can’t its supporters explain why? Talk of “darkness and isolation” does not convince me that Serbia would be wise to join the EU.

If Nikolic wins the elections, Serbia will remain isolated while Croatia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Albania and Bosnia will be member states of the European Union.

Mr. Thomas is right. The EU isnt all peaches and cream. Serbs pride themselfs on their culture. Something that may have to be given up to become a EU member. The right of Serbs being Serbian will be reduced to the laws of the EU. I dont think looseing our true identity to become a EU member is worth it. I'd rather keep my music, slivo, and good times than be a EU crony. To be a partner of the EU is a better choice than to be a member of a club that will own your freedom of just being a Serb.

Ooooooh,Oh, Tadic, Tadic, you begun to sound like Albanians-"We don't know yet the date but it will be very soon". I can't believe what you are doing. There are wiser politicians around you that you should listen and understand. Hopefully the SAA won’t be ratified by the parliament.

The EU need to be told in no uncertain terms that any agreement is with Serbia as a whole or not at all!

Thus far it would seem that
Tadic is standing on the platform of a "promise" of (no guarantee) EU membership first - Serbian Sovereignity and terrirorial Unity not even mentioned!

Has it come to this - "promises" of 30 pieces of silver in the future ?

I truly hope that as many as possible do come out and vote once more again and God blessing make a resounding and clear message to all those who would wish to partition Serbia that it will not happen.

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness…(Matthew 6:33)

The EU is ready to welcome the citizens of Serbia into Europe,not just through a contractual relationship with their state, but also individually,' Rehn wrote. That is very funny their I was thinking Serbia and the rest of the ex Yugoslavia republics are part of Europe and in Europe. I guess you all have to move because Rehn said you are not he and the EU never make mistakes just blame it on the the new geography. Not just through a contractual relationship with their state, but also individually,' Rehn wrote. When you all sign the deed to your countries away and God given individual rights to Brussels. Let EU dictate the laws and run your affairs also the individual rights they deem necessary most likely not necessary ,they cause to many problems if people have rights insist on using them. Your paraliments will become useless only a rubber stamp to EU Brussels self serving laws of the big members. Magically you will appear and be stabilized in to existence to be in Europe. When Rehn and Baraso say the magic words dose that not sound great such a wise talented people in the EU. Of course it will not be cheap it will cost you every thing most of all your self respect and freedom. However, the Serbian president said that the exact date is not yet set. For this great and momentous future you all must be getting goose bumps and the hairs standing back of your heads. The future for the Balkans can be far from dark... But ultimately people in the region have to exercise their democratic choice to determine their countries' future course,' he concluded. Of course its only democratic don't you know if you chose the EU and Brussels other wise you all will be labeled mentally deranged and every thing evil and dark in the world of course undemocratic o what a hard choice to make.

The difference between initialing and signing the SAA can be compared to declaring independence and actually achieving it. Two entirely different matters.

I think it is very doubltful that Serbia, Croatia or any of the remaining Balkan states will enter the EU before any other. There is a risk that some may block others so I believe the idea is to get them all at the same time. Kosmet only complicates the whole region and Serbia not joining means neither will Kosovo. If Croatia goes first then the EU can say "bye bye" to Serbia and possibly vice versa.

It seems Tadic is trying to win the young vote. Perhaps they are not concerned about Kosovo but have some kind of idea that they can flee and get a job in the EU. That may be the reality but they'll probably end up cleaning toilets and their quality of life will deteriorate significantly, but hey, they'll be earning more than their parents. However accommodation and food costs will eat all of their earnings!

The safest place for Serbia is out of the EU until Kosovo is resolved. It will block the region entering and give it a lot more leverage. The false dreams of the EU is a trap.

Whether the young votes are strong enough to pull Tadic through is yet to be seen, but he is trying really hard it seems. I wouldn't dismiss him just yet. The NGOs are working extremely hard to keep him in.

serbia is not going to care are get fooled by this, all Europe is doing is saying yes 1 day and the next no its like a game for them but not to the Serbian people so we wont accept it any way because the east is getting stronger while the west are getting weaker and we all see this.

Nick KS,

"Princip,

Are you so delusional to believe that voting for a radical will improve Serbia’s chances of keeping Kosova? "

- well given that you now respect that Kosovo & Metohija is "kept" by Serbia I think this is a good sign and I look forward you explaining this viewpoint to fellow Serbian Albanians too.

That said I did not endorse Nikolic, on the contrary I would like a clear and unequivocal message from Tadic that Serbia in the EU means all of Serbia or not at all - why be party to a group of bullys that wishes to amputate you?

Once Tadic sets a clear message he will have a resounding victory - heck he could have won in the first round if he had been clear then!
However, sending out mised messages that seem to contradict what has been agreed in Parliment with the voties of DS parlimentarians is a very confusing stance and platform to be taken by Tadic - one can only guess he actually wants to lose his Presidency with such messages. Also I might add that scaremongering the electorate (a vote for Nikolic will ruin Serbia) is a very negative way to run a campaign - surely you would rather hear about what each candidate can do for you not putting down the other candidate!

So that gets me thinking maybe Tadic does not want to win since it is his to lose as the encumbant! Maybe he would rather Nikolic took the raps for the next crucial months ? Who knows what is in the mind of Tadic and DS these last few weeks when they have been so consistant in their inconsistancy and very negative campaigning!

Lets be clear I endorse who ever puts Serbia first and foremost and is patriotic in wanting the best for ALL of Serbia and its populace irespective of ethnicity - that is for both candidates to show and prove in the next few days to all the electorate. No one vote is guaranteed it must be earned !

Guys, don't listen to beautiful words from Tadic and EU. Serbians should vote for Nikolic and his party. Only doing that, will Serbia enjoy the true magnificence and importance that it deserves over other neighboring nations , who are nothing else but collaborators of evil doers like EU and USA. With Russia the future is secure. That's what history has said before.

If Nokilic wins the election ther will be NO isolation! Isolation from who? These are just tactics of Tadic before the election. This is used just to scare people. The only poeple that are saying there will be isolation is DS, thier media outlets and albanians who post on this website.

We are not desperate to join EU. If the EU really wants Serbia then they know what to do.

"UN Secretary-genl: Kosovo Independence A European Issue - AFP

"Slovak President Ivan Gasparovic said Slovakia wouldn't go "against the opinion of the E.U.or the U.N." on the Kosovo question"

[link]&
(laki Ny, 28 January 2008 14:56)"

laki Ny,

So the Slovaks won't go against the opinions of the EU or the UN ..... as far as I know, 1244 is still valid in the UN and the UNSC will not allow Kosovo independence.

When will Tadic learn that the EU are cutting him dry - they egged on Dulic to set early elections and now they are pulling the rug from under Tadic!

Surely it is time Tadic that you made yourself clear - ALL of Serbia in the EU or not at all - don't be played like a fool by the EU!!!

Lack of a clear and unequivocal statement in this regard means that even Tadic no longer believes he can win - since the EU clearly have pulled the rug.

The EU should really stop interfering in Serbia's election.

This would be completely unexceptable in other states. I'm wondering whether this means Tadic is in real trouble and I seriously doubt the EU will cut ties if Nikolic won.

now they say intern deal before no deal and now a interim these people from this SSA are really crazy,make up your minds ! serbia is laughing at you because its turning out you need us more than we need you

Let's see: Agreement that EU is now offering Serbia is due to be signed Feb.7th and is not an SSA agreement. I wonder if Nikolic wins will this new agreement still be offered? All EU had to agree for Serbia to sign was that Serbia includes Kosovo. Since SSA was withdrawn, then I guess that means that the EU still intends to separate Kosovo from Serbia and can withdraw this new agreement after elections if Tadic loses. The EU agenda is very evident. So, if Tadic wins, good-by Kosovo.

"The European Union will hold a meet of its Foreign Ministers today to discuss when Serbia would be able to sign the SAA, initialled last November."

I am missing soemthing here. The SAA was "initialled" but not "signed"?
Can someone please tell me the difference between "initialled" and "signed"?

Tadic says that SAA will be signed very soon, Kostunica says that signing SAA is like signing Kosova's Independence... So therefore whenever Serbia signs SAA that means that Serbia is signing Kosova's Independence also. This is not what i am saying but this is what Kostunica is saying.

Princip,

Are you so delusional to believe that voting for a radical will improve Serbia’s chances of keeping Kosova?

Precisely how do you think that more radical Serbian politicians are going to achieve keeping Kosova under Serbia’s sovereignty, through War? Who are they going to go to war with?

Boris Tadic (and his campaign of legal intimidation) is the Kosovar Albanians worst enemy. I hope Nikolic wins this election.

I read this Serb - Albanian bile moving back and forth on these comments pages and thank God these who regularly post comments, donot represent the majority of the poulation of Serbia and Kosovo/a.
Lacking in perspective you pander to the Russians here; the West there, without recourse to how you are being used. Forward to a multicultural serbia and Kosovo/Kosova under the only future possible. A democratic socialist future free of Western and Russian capitalist machination. Be done with these nationalist fools. I fear not tomorrow but time will tell.
The people will decide ultimately and not these nationalist bloggers with no regard for the life of the peoples of the region. The future will take time. Their will be many twists and turns but thank the heavens the people who wish for security, well - being and happiness will decide and not these two - bit scoundrel nationalists on all sides who pollute these comment boxes on a regular basis.
A Serbian - Kosovo/A Union based on the economic interests and well being of all who reside there, irrespective of creed, nationality, colour on a sound socilised economic foundation in the interests of the many and to the detriment of the gangster few, whoever they may represent!
comradely greetings to the peoples of the balkans

"Instead of a date for the signing of the already initialed Stabilization and Association Agreement (SAA), a ministerial meeting today came up with an offer of comprehensive cooperation in the sectors of economy, education, and complete canceling of visas for Serbian nationals, Beta news agency reported."

The SAA is itself an interim arrangement to the long road to EU membership ..... now we have an interim arrangement within the interim SAA itself .......pretty confusing.

On the other hand this current document specifies cooperation in economy, education and visas which I think can only benefit Serbia, without the poltical obligations to align Belgrade's policies with those of the EU that would come with the SAA. I would therefore say -- sign the darn document! And Tadic need not be the one to sign it either. Nikolic can too, to the EU's horror, unless they are prepared appear wishy-washy by retracting this offer should the Radicals prevail in the runoff!

UN Secretary-genl: Kosovo Independence A European Issue - AFP

"Slovak President Ivan Gasparovic said Slovakia wouldn't go "against the opinion of the E.U.or the U.N." on the Kosovo question"

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/NewsStory.aspx?cpath=20080128%5cACQDJON200801280740DOWJONESDJONLINE000260.htm&

Guys, what is so dificult to understand? Its simple politics.
If Mladic and Karadzich will be free, and Kosova not independant, not only Serbia but the whole reagion will be full of tension and it will never settle. And who wants trouble in EU? Who wants to accept countries with such hot issues?
Thats why Kosova's independence will normalize life in the balkans, and it will open the road to EU for all our countries.
Sometimes you have to sallow bitter pills to get well. Thats it!!
Peace to all and drink some rakia for god's sake.

“….the EU cannot dictate how Serbia must run its own affairs, it's not like you think, and Serbia would benefit many things too….”

Peter, unfortunately you are wrong. It’s obvious that in EU few biggest countries have most power and usually get their agendas through, by bullying smaller states in many subtle and not so subtle ways. It is set to become worse in the future. In Serb case it will be even worse, because, some powerful countries have an ax to grind….

Besides, all we got are empty promises so far, without any guaranties. (I wonder how much of these promises are motivated by pure fear that what they considered easy pray until recently, may actually slip away, spoil the plot and get them into troubles in a near future, by cooperating with awakened bear…).

"The European Union simply wants to show Serbs that the door is open and that EU is genuinely interested in cooperating with Serbia."

Oh, thank you Mr EU. Serbia also welcomes the EU, no doubt about it. Just permit us to join as a fully intact country (as every other member) and we will feel a part of the family. Attempt to take away our territory and we shall turn our back.

Now that doesn't sound unreasonable does it?

Nicely said teesy. Now offer us your solution.

Are you for Serbia with or without Kosovo?
What you said is just ideology without a practical solution.
We would all love to live in the world you describe but how do we get there?

So my question to you my friend (if you think I am not poluting this forum) is, do we solve this problem by amputating Kosovo from Serbia or do we leave Serbia intact and work on a way to live together?

"Serbia is ALREADY without Kosova, so your question is irrelevant.

(Nick KS, 29 January 2008 13:53) "

well, the last I heard was that North Kosovo was still firmly with Serbia ..... has been that way since 1999

Princip,

I was refering to "keeping" Serbian sovreignty over Kosova. I believe we are all aware that Serbia had and still has legal sovreignty over Kosova until such time as we declare independence and are recognized by a large number of countries.

Please do not try to distort my comment, it is very immature.

mike, it's super swell to have you in the same city :)
welcome
go easy on the plum, you know, cookies :)

Michael Thomas

You make a good point about the negative elements of the EU, but there are also positive elements in the form of services, decentralization and infrastructure (roads, banks, telecommunications etc)

While you make good points with what you say in your five arguments, I think there are inaccuracies to them:

1) EU is not a military organization, NATO is. There are EU states that are not a part of NATO. Even if Serbia was, it has the choice whether to send their troops anywhere.

2) Not necessarily. Yes, countries like Poland and Romania suffered massive brain drains, others like Slovenia and Czech Republic didn't. It depends on the country.

3) What's wrong with that? Having better roads mean they are safer, am I not right?

4) Also not necessarily. Poland has made special laws with regards to buying land. Serbia could do it too.

5) This is true, much of the third world has flooded France, Holland, UK, Belgium and Germany, however here in Poland, I very rarely see anyone not European, and I live in Warsaw, not even mentioning other places! Most Poles (in my opinion) are inherently intolerant towards anyone who is not European or Christian, Serbia would also not suffer this wave of immigrants if they do not let them in via immigrant laws.

So you see Michael Thomas, the EU is not the end of the world, the EU cannot dictate how Serbia must run its own affairs, it's not like you think, and Serbia would benefit many things too.

The European Union simply wants to show Serbs that the door is open and that EU is genuinely interested in cooperating with Serbia.

I must say I find it sad that so many people writing here seem to be driven by pride and prejudice rather than a realistic assessment of Serbia's options. EU wants Serbia as a member because the union will profit from growing, and from the increasing purchasing power of Serbs experiencing the explosive economic growth all the other new member states have seen - but Serbia will undoubtedly be the biggest winner of all. Development funds, investment, the possibility for Serbs to freely work and study in 27 countries, and the possibility for Serbia to influence the union's internal and international policies. The list can be made much longer.

Really, it should be a no-brainer. But if you feel that it is better to proudly deteriorate into insignificance and poverty, while your neighbours all hop on the European Union road to prosperity, go ahead.

Oh, and about Kosovo - do you guys honestly believe that the chances to hold on to Kosovo is higher if you show the European Union that you're not interested in cooperation than if you do? If you turn your back, the powerful guys in Brussels will have nothing to lose by turning to confrontation. The only way you can make them listen to anything you have to say is by taking their extended hand.

There are indeed a lot of things that are outright bad with the EU. But one thing is certain: the future for Serbs will be much better within the union than if they opt for isolation.

I'm Greek and but I've visited Yugoslavia too many times between 1980-85. I liked it a lot, it was a nice place to live, may be better than Greece.
Now it's not.
I've always admired the pride of Serb people but some times diplomacy is needed.
We too had problems in the past-remember Cyprus- we left NATO, but life goes on. Important thing is to do the best for your people. Make them live better.
If Serbia was the richest country in the area, everybody would like to join it, not to go away from it.
And nobody (Rusia included) doesn't need an isolated Serbia.

Greetings from Belgrade. I'm here for the next 4 months doing research and improving my Serbian language skills. I've been here for only two days and I can already tell you that from the signs in the streets, Tadic is making the EU one of his main goals. It's on the billboards and on the TV. With this said, I think an SAA signing will be contingent on Tadic winning the elections. Such a signing would also very likely come with a negotiated agreement over Kosovo - the EU takes it over, but offers Tadic the opportunity to continue investing in Serbian-dominated areas.

Of course if Nikolic wins, the scenario changes considerably.

Too late, smile. I already had a number of plumb "cookies" and really like them ;). By the way, I also see a marked improvement in Belgrade 2008 from my previous time in 2002.

Traffic police in Slavija Circle? Where's the fun in cheating death everytime one crosses the street now?

If this isn't a try to buy the elections in the second round, then what is?

I shouldn't be sorry since I actually support Tadic over Nikolic, but this is not a fair game when one side gets a lot of bought votes.

If EU wants to give this "gift" to Serbia fine, but stay out of our elections!

Peggy,

Serbia is ALREADY without Kosova, so your question is irrelevant.

As for finding a way to live together, living together is something Serbs are not very good at, they never have been, and all the nations of the Balkans will testify to that.

peggy it's simple.
A union of Serbia Kosovo/A within the current internationally recognised borders affording full autonomy but without independent status. these nationalists donot offer solutions but standoffs. The Serb minority as it stands must cooperate within the the organs of governance and build alliances with Albanian representatives who wish to further peace, sability,wellbeing and an economically sustainable environment.
Of course this cannot be done in isolation, and here is the crux of the matter, it must be done alongside the more progressive political groups operating within Serbia, Albania, bulgaria, Makedonia, bosnia,Montenegro, Greece and the wider region.
The tide is moving from nationalist two bit gangsters on all sides. This recent rapacious capitalism is proving itself incapable of satisfying the needs and hopes of the majority in the region. Time for more economic, democratically socialist progressive elements to shift the emphasis of the debate away from the nationalist agenda, free themselves from outside influence and carve out their own future in the fashion the people of the region wish.

“The European Union simply wants to show Serbs that the door is open and that EU is genuinely interested in cooperating with Serbia…”

Well, if that was their intention, they certainly found very strange way to get that “friendly” message across. They consistently did everything they could to destroy us. In those vicious civil wars they demonized us and victimized our enemies, helped them to expel our brothers from their ancestral homes where they lived for hundreds of years, completely ignored the biggest ethnical cleansing in Europe since WWII. They keep accusing us that we are some kind of genocidal monsters while Serbia is most ethnically mixed and tolerant country of ex-Yu, with a biggest number of refuges in Europe. Our supposedly peace loving, innocent victims were allowed to almost completely expel their minorities, their war criminals are elected in a government. On top of that, to be sure that message was understood, they bombed us and poisoned us with a depleted uranium among the other things. But that’s not enough, now they wont to disintegrate our country in as many little pieces as possible. I say thank you very much we don’t need such friends. Leave us alone, world is a big place, constantly changing, you are not the only choice, we’ll find other partners.. US power is over its zenith, now is downhill ride in a prospect. Serious recession is looming, US will pull EU in downslide as well. In short and medium term future, energy will be name of the game. We should cooperate with energy giants as Russia and Venezuela, emerging strong economies of Asia and our natural regional allies as Greece and Cyprus.

Well this is not much of a surprise but I am surprised by the extent of 'patriotic' response here. I am disapointed that almost none of the cynics appear to understand that the EU is composed of member states, that Holland had a veto in deciding whether they would offer SAA to Serbia or not.
Rather than put the 'blame' where it lies, its another excuse to condemn the EU - its a buzzword rapidly approaching 'NGO' in the emotional hatred stakes.

And some of the same people that have made comments outlining that Serbia should reject the SAA are now complaining that it was not offered. That is a little contradictory.

As for priorities for those that claim they care about Serbia I ask you this.

Does soverignty give you a job?
Does pride put bread on the table?

As for who to vote for its a complete no brainer. Its a straightforward choice between 2 completely different candidates. One candidate would cause instability in the region and cause an economic downturn in Serbia, meaning less jobs, more poverty etc. (I don't like to insult the intelligence with cheap slogans so I'll let you work out which)

Therefore there is (if one is thinking of what is best for people living in Serbia) no choice on which candidate to support.

bganon - once you have been 2nd secretary a bit longer maybe you will be able to judge what is in people's interests a bit better. btw homework for you - what was the %age unemployment in serbia in 2002 and 2008?

Greetings from the EU, you said to give up our pride. Our pride (identity) was the factor in our survival against the Ottomans, Austro-Hugarian Emp., WW1, WW2 and the nazis, Nato bombing & the occupation of Kosovo, and now the invasion of the EU. Give up our pride and our land to be part of a union that will tell us what to do and when to do it. To tell us we can no longer be who we are to meet their standards. All to be a member of a union that will fall like Yugoslavia did. No thanks. Serbia can be a strong partner to the EU but sign our identity away along with our heritage and culture (Kosovo) just to be a member, I would think not. I'll keep my pride and I hope Serbia does also. Zivali Srbija!

I forgot to add this to my giving up our pride comment. Not to mention exploiting the wealth & resources out of Voivodina. Just to make the big dogs of the EU richer.

I think Nikolic winning in Serbia would be the best thing that Serbia needs right now.. and yes as crazy as it sounds.. even the ones who want to join the European Union.

The EU has became accustomed to pushing Serbia around because of its very weak leader. The EU knows that Tadic cares more about the EU than Kosovo, or Serbia its self. If Nikolic was to win.. the EU would have to take a step back, realize there is no negotiations with Kosovo, and realize that if they want Serbia apart of the EU.. or any agreement at all.. they would have to treat us with some respect and dignity.

If Tadic remains president.. the ball will have to be in our court.. if Nikolic wins.. the pressure is on the EU and the ball will be in there court on weather or not they REALLY want Serbia as a partner.

Peggy,

"Serbia is ALREADY without Kosova, so your question is irrelevant.

(Nick KS, 29 January 2008 13:53) "

well, the last I heard was that they were firmly in control of North Kosovo .... has been that way since 1999.

The German and EU dependence on the Russina pipelines is a concern in Berlin and Brussels.

While EU is trying to build the pipeline that will avoid teh Russian grid, Serbia sales her energy company to Gazprom and Bulgaria (the Russian Troy horse in EU as the Russian ambassador in EU said) signed a $30bn deal with Putin on the alternative pipeline- to the one projected by EU, and will allow for teh first time that Russians build a nuclear power plant in a EU country- Bulgaria.
now you got the picture? Kosova and Albanians are the only natural alley of the west in the Balkans- and most pro-western in the Balkans, not only geographically.

Do not accept and sign the agreement!

Dimmy, it is still better than Greece. (unfortunately for us)

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/morton_abramowitz/2008/01/putins_balkan_mischief.html

Good luck Mike. Be careful in Belgrade. Its known very strange things go on there.

goodbye Kosovo no matter who wins, Ljiljana

2nd secretary I dont understand your point.

Neither in 2002 or 2008 was Serbian in the EU.

Tackle the issue, dont speak in riddles.

I am from Georgia and I have a cynical thing to say. I am very happy for Serbians that they will no longer need visas to travel to EU. It is immensely important especially for young poeple. But I am thinking maybe I should have voted for the crazy insane candidate in our elections and we as well would get better deals? EU is encapsulation of political opportunism and lack of any principles in foreign policy whatsoever. When Russians expelled 10,000 Georgians in matter of week and closed their entire market-70% of our export, what EU did to help us was exactly NOTHING.

If Nikolic wins the elections, Serbia will remain isolated while Croatia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Albania and Bosnia will be member states of the European Union.

Peggy,

Serbia is ALREADY without Kosova, so your question is irrelevant.

As for finding a way to live together, living together is something Serbs are not very good at, they never have been, and all the nations of the Balkans will testify to that.

Tadic says that SAA will be signed very soon, Kostunica says that signing SAA is like signing Kosova's Independence... So therefore whenever Serbia signs SAA that means that Serbia is signing Kosova's Independence also. This is not what i am saying but this is what Kostunica is saying.

The European Union simply wants to show Serbs that the door is open and that EU is genuinely interested in cooperating with Serbia.

I must say I find it sad that so many people writing here seem to be driven by pride and prejudice rather than a realistic assessment of Serbia's options. EU wants Serbia as a member because the union will profit from growing, and from the increasing purchasing power of Serbs experiencing the explosive economic growth all the other new member states have seen - but Serbia will undoubtedly be the biggest winner of all. Development funds, investment, the possibility for Serbs to freely work and study in 27 countries, and the possibility for Serbia to influence the union's internal and international policies. The list can be made much longer.

Really, it should be a no-brainer. But if you feel that it is better to proudly deteriorate into insignificance and poverty, while your neighbours all hop on the European Union road to prosperity, go ahead.

Oh, and about Kosovo - do you guys honestly believe that the chances to hold on to Kosovo is higher if you show the European Union that you're not interested in cooperation than if you do? If you turn your back, the powerful guys in Brussels will have nothing to lose by turning to confrontation. The only way you can make them listen to anything you have to say is by taking their extended hand.

There are indeed a lot of things that are outright bad with the EU. But one thing is certain: the future for Serbs will be much better within the union than if they opt for isolation.

Guys, what is so dificult to understand? Its simple politics.
If Mladic and Karadzich will be free, and Kosova not independant, not only Serbia but the whole reagion will be full of tension and it will never settle. And who wants trouble in EU? Who wants to accept countries with such hot issues?
Thats why Kosova's independence will normalize life in the balkans, and it will open the road to EU for all our countries.
Sometimes you have to sallow bitter pills to get well. Thats it!!
Peace to all and drink some rakia for god's sake.

Princip,

Are you so delusional to believe that voting for a radical will improve Serbia’s chances of keeping Kosova?

Precisely how do you think that more radical Serbian politicians are going to achieve keeping Kosova under Serbia’s sovereignty, through War? Who are they going to go to war with?

Boris Tadic (and his campaign of legal intimidation) is the Kosovar Albanians worst enemy. I hope Nikolic wins this election.

UN Secretary-genl: Kosovo Independence A European Issue - AFP

"Slovak President Ivan Gasparovic said Slovakia wouldn't go "against the opinion of the E.U.or the U.N." on the Kosovo question"

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/NewsStory.aspx?cpath=20080128%5cACQDJON200801280740DOWJONESDJONLINE000260.htm&

Michael Thomas

You make a good point about the negative elements of the EU, but there are also positive elements in the form of services, decentralization and infrastructure (roads, banks, telecommunications etc)

While you make good points with what you say in your five arguments, I think there are inaccuracies to them:

1) EU is not a military organization, NATO is. There are EU states that are not a part of NATO. Even if Serbia was, it has the choice whether to send their troops anywhere.

2) Not necessarily. Yes, countries like Poland and Romania suffered massive brain drains, others like Slovenia and Czech Republic didn't. It depends on the country.

3) What's wrong with that? Having better roads mean they are safer, am I not right?

4) Also not necessarily. Poland has made special laws with regards to buying land. Serbia could do it too.

5) This is true, much of the third world has flooded France, Holland, UK, Belgium and Germany, however here in Poland, I very rarely see anyone not European, and I live in Warsaw, not even mentioning other places! Most Poles (in my opinion) are inherently intolerant towards anyone who is not European or Christian, Serbia would also not suffer this wave of immigrants if they do not let them in via immigrant laws.

So you see Michael Thomas, the EU is not the end of the world, the EU cannot dictate how Serbia must run its own affairs, it's not like you think, and Serbia would benefit many things too.

The EU need to be told in no uncertain terms that any agreement is with Serbia as a whole or not at all!

Thus far it would seem that
Tadic is standing on the platform of a "promise" of (no guarantee) EU membership first - Serbian Sovereignity and terrirorial Unity not even mentioned!

Has it come to this - "promises" of 30 pieces of silver in the future ?

I truly hope that as many as possible do come out and vote once more again and God blessing make a resounding and clear message to all those who would wish to partition Serbia that it will not happen.

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness…(Matthew 6:33)

The EU is ready to welcome the citizens of Serbia into Europe,not just through a contractual relationship with their state, but also individually,' Rehn wrote. That is very funny their I was thinking Serbia and the rest of the ex Yugoslavia republics are part of Europe and in Europe. I guess you all have to move because Rehn said you are not he and the EU never make mistakes just blame it on the the new geography. Not just through a contractual relationship with their state, but also individually,' Rehn wrote. When you all sign the deed to your countries away and God given individual rights to Brussels. Let EU dictate the laws and run your affairs also the individual rights they deem necessary most likely not necessary ,they cause to many problems if people have rights insist on using them. Your paraliments will become useless only a rubber stamp to EU Brussels self serving laws of the big members. Magically you will appear and be stabilized in to existence to be in Europe. When Rehn and Baraso say the magic words dose that not sound great such a wise talented people in the EU. Of course it will not be cheap it will cost you every thing most of all your self respect and freedom. However, the Serbian president said that the exact date is not yet set. For this great and momentous future you all must be getting goose bumps and the hairs standing back of your heads. The future for the Balkans can be far from dark... But ultimately people in the region have to exercise their democratic choice to determine their countries' future course,' he concluded. Of course its only democratic don't you know if you chose the EU and Brussels other wise you all will be labeled mentally deranged and every thing evil and dark in the world of course undemocratic o what a hard choice to make.

It’s my guess that a handful of office juniors at EU embassies in Belgrade have been told by their superiors to go onto sites like this one to push the lie that the EU is all sweetness and light and that those outside the EU live in darkness and isolation.

Here is what the EU offers Serbia:

1.) Employment (1) 20,000 Serbian soldiers will be employed in EU “peacekeeping” missions around the world. These Serbian soldiers will be paid about 1/5th of the money paid to German and British “peacekeepers” and will be told to kill poor people who may never have heard of Serbia.
2.) Employment (2) a million Serbian workers (including the best educated and most skilled) will work in Western EU countries as Gasterbeiter. They will keep the streets and sewers clean and serve burgers at McDonalds.
3.) Infrastructure. The EU may subsidies the building of new roads which are needed to help German trucks to pass through Serbia more efficiently.
4.) Inward Investment. Working class Britons, Austrians and Germans will buy cheap holiday homes in Serbia, thereby causing the price of property in Serbia to quadruple. More and more Serbians will be unable to buy a home in their own country and will therefore have no alternative but to become homeless Gasterbeiter, the new Slaves of Western Europe.
5.) Immigration. With the influx of East Europeans workers into Western Europe, the Western EU nations will no longer need so many Third World immigrants. The constant flow of Third World immigrants into Western Europe will be diverted to the “under-populated” regions of Eastern Europe. Within ten years of EU membership, the towns of Vrsac, Pirot, Sombor and a hundred others in Serbia will resemble Leicester in England, a city of 300,000, two-thirds of whom are neither European nor Christian.

If the EU is such a wonderful thing, why can’t its supporters explain why? Talk of “darkness and isolation” does not convince me that Serbia would be wise to join the EU.

Princip,

I was refering to "keeping" Serbian sovreignty over Kosova. I believe we are all aware that Serbia had and still has legal sovreignty over Kosova until such time as we declare independence and are recognized by a large number of countries.

Please do not try to distort my comment, it is very immature.

The German and EU dependence on the Russina pipelines is a concern in Berlin and Brussels.

While EU is trying to build the pipeline that will avoid teh Russian grid, Serbia sales her energy company to Gazprom and Bulgaria (the Russian Troy horse in EU as the Russian ambassador in EU said) signed a $30bn deal with Putin on the alternative pipeline- to the one projected by EU, and will allow for teh first time that Russians build a nuclear power plant in a EU country- Bulgaria.
now you got the picture? Kosova and Albanians are the only natural alley of the west in the Balkans- and most pro-western in the Balkans, not only geographically.

Guys, don't listen to beautiful words from Tadic and EU. Serbians should vote for Nikolic and his party. Only doing that, will Serbia enjoy the true magnificence and importance that it deserves over other neighboring nations , who are nothing else but collaborators of evil doers like EU and USA. With Russia the future is secure. That's what history has said before.

Ooooooh,Oh, Tadic, Tadic, you begun to sound like Albanians-"We don't know yet the date but it will be very soon". I can't believe what you are doing. There are wiser politicians around you that you should listen and understand. Hopefully the SAA won’t be ratified by the parliament.

"The European Union will hold a meet of its Foreign Ministers today to discuss when Serbia would be able to sign the SAA, initialled last November."

I am missing soemthing here. The SAA was "initialled" but not "signed"?
Can someone please tell me the difference between "initialled" and "signed"?

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/morton_abramowitz/2008/01/putins_balkan_mischief.html

Good luck Mike. Be careful in Belgrade. Its known very strange things go on there.

Greetings from Belgrade. I'm here for the next 4 months doing research and improving my Serbian language skills. I've been here for only two days and I can already tell you that from the signs in the streets, Tadic is making the EU one of his main goals. It's on the billboards and on the TV. With this said, I think an SAA signing will be contingent on Tadic winning the elections. Such a signing would also very likely come with a negotiated agreement over Kosovo - the EU takes it over, but offers Tadic the opportunity to continue investing in Serbian-dominated areas.

Of course if Nikolic wins, the scenario changes considerably.

If Nokilic wins the election ther will be NO isolation! Isolation from who? These are just tactics of Tadic before the election. This is used just to scare people. The only poeple that are saying there will be isolation is DS, thier media outlets and albanians who post on this website.

We are not desperate to join EU. If the EU really wants Serbia then they know what to do.

I'm Greek and but I've visited Yugoslavia too many times between 1980-85. I liked it a lot, it was a nice place to live, may be better than Greece.
Now it's not.
I've always admired the pride of Serb people but some times diplomacy is needed.
We too had problems in the past-remember Cyprus- we left NATO, but life goes on. Important thing is to do the best for your people. Make them live better.
If Serbia was the richest country in the area, everybody would like to join it, not to go away from it.
And nobody (Rusia included) doesn't need an isolated Serbia.

goodbye Kosovo no matter who wins, Ljiljana

Nick KS,

"Princip,

Are you so delusional to believe that voting for a radical will improve Serbia’s chances of keeping Kosova? "

- well given that you now respect that Kosovo & Metohija is "kept" by Serbia I think this is a good sign and I look forward you explaining this viewpoint to fellow Serbian Albanians too.

That said I did not endorse Nikolic, on the contrary I would like a clear and unequivocal message from Tadic that Serbia in the EU means all of Serbia or not at all - why be party to a group of bullys that wishes to amputate you?

Once Tadic sets a clear message he will have a resounding victory - heck he could have won in the first round if he had been clear then!
However, sending out mised messages that seem to contradict what has been agreed in Parliment with the voties of DS parlimentarians is a very confusing stance and platform to be taken by Tadic - one can only guess he actually wants to lose his Presidency with such messages. Also I might add that scaremongering the electorate (a vote for Nikolic will ruin Serbia) is a very negative way to run a campaign - surely you would rather hear about what each candidate can do for you not putting down the other candidate!

So that gets me thinking maybe Tadic does not want to win since it is his to lose as the encumbant! Maybe he would rather Nikolic took the raps for the next crucial months ? Who knows what is in the mind of Tadic and DS these last few weeks when they have been so consistant in their inconsistancy and very negative campaigning!

Lets be clear I endorse who ever puts Serbia first and foremost and is patriotic in wanting the best for ALL of Serbia and its populace irespective of ethnicity - that is for both candidates to show and prove in the next few days to all the electorate. No one vote is guaranteed it must be earned !

"UN Secretary-genl: Kosovo Independence A European Issue - AFP

"Slovak President Ivan Gasparovic said Slovakia wouldn't go "against the opinion of the E.U.or the U.N." on the Kosovo question"

[link]&
(laki Ny, 28 January 2008 14:56)"

laki Ny,

So the Slovaks won't go against the opinions of the EU or the UN ..... as far as I know, 1244 is still valid in the UN and the UNSC will not allow Kosovo independence.

The difference between initialing and signing the SAA can be compared to declaring independence and actually achieving it. Two entirely different matters.

I think it is very doubltful that Serbia, Croatia or any of the remaining Balkan states will enter the EU before any other. There is a risk that some may block others so I believe the idea is to get them all at the same time. Kosmet only complicates the whole region and Serbia not joining means neither will Kosovo. If Croatia goes first then the EU can say "bye bye" to Serbia and possibly vice versa.

It seems Tadic is trying to win the young vote. Perhaps they are not concerned about Kosovo but have some kind of idea that they can flee and get a job in the EU. That may be the reality but they'll probably end up cleaning toilets and their quality of life will deteriorate significantly, but hey, they'll be earning more than their parents. However accommodation and food costs will eat all of their earnings!

The safest place for Serbia is out of the EU until Kosovo is resolved. It will block the region entering and give it a lot more leverage. The false dreams of the EU is a trap.

Whether the young votes are strong enough to pull Tadic through is yet to be seen, but he is trying really hard it seems. I wouldn't dismiss him just yet. The NGOs are working extremely hard to keep him in.

mike, it's super swell to have you in the same city :)
welcome
go easy on the plum, you know, cookies :)

Mr. Thomas is right. The EU isnt all peaches and cream. Serbs pride themselfs on their culture. Something that may have to be given up to become a EU member. The right of Serbs being Serbian will be reduced to the laws of the EU. I dont think looseing our true identity to become a EU member is worth it. I'd rather keep my music, slivo, and good times than be a EU crony. To be a partner of the EU is a better choice than to be a member of a club that will own your freedom of just being a Serb.

serbia is not going to care are get fooled by this, all Europe is doing is saying yes 1 day and the next no its like a game for them but not to the Serbian people so we wont accept it any way because the east is getting stronger while the west are getting weaker and we all see this.

Too late, smile. I already had a number of plumb "cookies" and really like them ;). By the way, I also see a marked improvement in Belgrade 2008 from my previous time in 2002.

Traffic police in Slavija Circle? Where's the fun in cheating death everytime one crosses the street now?

now they say intern deal before no deal and now a interim these people from this SSA are really crazy,make up your minds ! serbia is laughing at you because its turning out you need us more than we need you

The EU should really stop interfering in Serbia's election.

This would be completely unexceptable in other states. I'm wondering whether this means Tadic is in real trouble and I seriously doubt the EU will cut ties if Nikolic won.

When will Tadic learn that the EU are cutting him dry - they egged on Dulic to set early elections and now they are pulling the rug from under Tadic!

Surely it is time Tadic that you made yourself clear - ALL of Serbia in the EU or not at all - don't be played like a fool by the EU!!!

Lack of a clear and unequivocal statement in this regard means that even Tadic no longer believes he can win - since the EU clearly have pulled the rug.

Let's see: Agreement that EU is now offering Serbia is due to be signed Feb.7th and is not an SSA agreement. I wonder if Nikolic wins will this new agreement still be offered? All EU had to agree for Serbia to sign was that Serbia includes Kosovo. Since SSA was withdrawn, then I guess that means that the EU still intends to separate Kosovo from Serbia and can withdraw this new agreement after elections if Tadic loses. The EU agenda is very evident. So, if Tadic wins, good-by Kosovo.

I read this Serb - Albanian bile moving back and forth on these comments pages and thank God these who regularly post comments, donot represent the majority of the poulation of Serbia and Kosovo/a.
Lacking in perspective you pander to the Russians here; the West there, without recourse to how you are being used. Forward to a multicultural serbia and Kosovo/Kosova under the only future possible. A democratic socialist future free of Western and Russian capitalist machination. Be done with these nationalist fools. I fear not tomorrow but time will tell.
The people will decide ultimately and not these nationalist bloggers with no regard for the life of the peoples of the region. The future will take time. Their will be many twists and turns but thank the heavens the people who wish for security, well - being and happiness will decide and not these two - bit scoundrel nationalists on all sides who pollute these comment boxes on a regular basis.
A Serbian - Kosovo/A Union based on the economic interests and well being of all who reside there, irrespective of creed, nationality, colour on a sound socilised economic foundation in the interests of the many and to the detriment of the gangster few, whoever they may represent!
comradely greetings to the peoples of the balkans

“….the EU cannot dictate how Serbia must run its own affairs, it's not like you think, and Serbia would benefit many things too….”

Peter, unfortunately you are wrong. It’s obvious that in EU few biggest countries have most power and usually get their agendas through, by bullying smaller states in many subtle and not so subtle ways. It is set to become worse in the future. In Serb case it will be even worse, because, some powerful countries have an ax to grind….

Besides, all we got are empty promises so far, without any guaranties. (I wonder how much of these promises are motivated by pure fear that what they considered easy pray until recently, may actually slip away, spoil the plot and get them into troubles in a near future, by cooperating with awakened bear…).

"The European Union simply wants to show Serbs that the door is open and that EU is genuinely interested in cooperating with Serbia."

Oh, thank you Mr EU. Serbia also welcomes the EU, no doubt about it. Just permit us to join as a fully intact country (as every other member) and we will feel a part of the family. Attempt to take away our territory and we shall turn our back.

Now that doesn't sound unreasonable does it?

“The European Union simply wants to show Serbs that the door is open and that EU is genuinely interested in cooperating with Serbia…”

Well, if that was their intention, they certainly found very strange way to get that “friendly” message across. They consistently did everything they could to destroy us. In those vicious civil wars they demonized us and victimized our enemies, helped them to expel our brothers from their ancestral homes where they lived for hundreds of years, completely ignored the biggest ethnical cleansing in Europe since WWII. They keep accusing us that we are some kind of genocidal monsters while Serbia is most ethnically mixed and tolerant country of ex-Yu, with a biggest number of refuges in Europe. Our supposedly peace loving, innocent victims were allowed to almost completely expel their minorities, their war criminals are elected in a government. On top of that, to be sure that message was understood, they bombed us and poisoned us with a depleted uranium among the other things. But that’s not enough, now they wont to disintegrate our country in as many little pieces as possible. I say thank you very much we don’t need such friends. Leave us alone, world is a big place, constantly changing, you are not the only choice, we’ll find other partners.. US power is over its zenith, now is downhill ride in a prospect. Serious recession is looming, US will pull EU in downslide as well. In short and medium term future, energy will be name of the game. We should cooperate with energy giants as Russia and Venezuela, emerging strong economies of Asia and our natural regional allies as Greece and Cyprus.

Greetings from the EU, you said to give up our pride. Our pride (identity) was the factor in our survival against the Ottomans, Austro-Hugarian Emp., WW1, WW2 and the nazis, Nato bombing & the occupation of Kosovo, and now the invasion of the EU. Give up our pride and our land to be part of a union that will tell us what to do and when to do it. To tell us we can no longer be who we are to meet their standards. All to be a member of a union that will fall like Yugoslavia did. No thanks. Serbia can be a strong partner to the EU but sign our identity away along with our heritage and culture (Kosovo) just to be a member, I would think not. I'll keep my pride and I hope Serbia does also. Zivali Srbija!

I forgot to add this to my giving up our pride comment. Not to mention exploiting the wealth & resources out of Voivodina. Just to make the big dogs of the EU richer.

Well this is not much of a surprise but I am surprised by the extent of 'patriotic' response here. I am disapointed that almost none of the cynics appear to understand that the EU is composed of member states, that Holland had a veto in deciding whether they would offer SAA to Serbia or not.
Rather than put the 'blame' where it lies, its another excuse to condemn the EU - its a buzzword rapidly approaching 'NGO' in the emotional hatred stakes.

And some of the same people that have made comments outlining that Serbia should reject the SAA are now complaining that it was not offered. That is a little contradictory.

As for priorities for those that claim they care about Serbia I ask you this.

Does soverignty give you a job?
Does pride put bread on the table?

As for who to vote for its a complete no brainer. Its a straightforward choice between 2 completely different candidates. One candidate would cause instability in the region and cause an economic downturn in Serbia, meaning less jobs, more poverty etc. (I don't like to insult the intelligence with cheap slogans so I'll let you work out which)

Therefore there is (if one is thinking of what is best for people living in Serbia) no choice on which candidate to support.

Do not accept and sign the agreement!

I think Nikolic winning in Serbia would be the best thing that Serbia needs right now.. and yes as crazy as it sounds.. even the ones who want to join the European Union.

The EU has became accustomed to pushing Serbia around because of its very weak leader. The EU knows that Tadic cares more about the EU than Kosovo, or Serbia its self. If Nikolic was to win.. the EU would have to take a step back, realize there is no negotiations with Kosovo, and realize that if they want Serbia apart of the EU.. or any agreement at all.. they would have to treat us with some respect and dignity.

If Tadic remains president.. the ball will have to be in our court.. if Nikolic wins.. the pressure is on the EU and the ball will be in there court on weather or not they REALLY want Serbia as a partner.

If this isn't a try to buy the elections in the second round, then what is?

I shouldn't be sorry since I actually support Tadic over Nikolic, but this is not a fair game when one side gets a lot of bought votes.

If EU wants to give this "gift" to Serbia fine, but stay out of our elections!

Dimmy, it is still better than Greece. (unfortunately for us)

"Instead of a date for the signing of the already initialed Stabilization and Association Agreement (SAA), a ministerial meeting today came up with an offer of comprehensive cooperation in the sectors of economy, education, and complete canceling of visas for Serbian nationals, Beta news agency reported."

The SAA is itself an interim arrangement to the long road to EU membership ..... now we have an interim arrangement within the interim SAA itself .......pretty confusing.

On the other hand this current document specifies cooperation in economy, education and visas which I think can only benefit Serbia, without the poltical obligations to align Belgrade's policies with those of the EU that would come with the SAA. I would therefore say -- sign the darn document! And Tadic need not be the one to sign it either. Nikolic can too, to the EU's horror, unless they are prepared appear wishy-washy by retracting this offer should the Radicals prevail in the runoff!

Nicely said teesy. Now offer us your solution.

Are you for Serbia with or without Kosovo?
What you said is just ideology without a practical solution.
We would all love to live in the world you describe but how do we get there?

So my question to you my friend (if you think I am not poluting this forum) is, do we solve this problem by amputating Kosovo from Serbia or do we leave Serbia intact and work on a way to live together?

Peggy,

"Serbia is ALREADY without Kosova, so your question is irrelevant.

(Nick KS, 29 January 2008 13:53) "

well, the last I heard was that they were firmly in control of North Kosovo .... has been that way since 1999.

"Serbia is ALREADY without Kosova, so your question is irrelevant.

(Nick KS, 29 January 2008 13:53) "

well, the last I heard was that North Kosovo was still firmly with Serbia ..... has been that way since 1999

bganon - once you have been 2nd secretary a bit longer maybe you will be able to judge what is in people's interests a bit better. btw homework for you - what was the %age unemployment in serbia in 2002 and 2008?

peggy it's simple.
A union of Serbia Kosovo/A within the current internationally recognised borders affording full autonomy but without independent status. these nationalists donot offer solutions but standoffs. The Serb minority as it stands must cooperate within the the organs of governance and build alliances with Albanian representatives who wish to further peace, sability,wellbeing and an economically sustainable environment.
Of course this cannot be done in isolation, and here is the crux of the matter, it must be done alongside the more progressive political groups operating within Serbia, Albania, bulgaria, Makedonia, bosnia,Montenegro, Greece and the wider region.
The tide is moving from nationalist two bit gangsters on all sides. This recent rapacious capitalism is proving itself incapable of satisfying the needs and hopes of the majority in the region. Time for more economic, democratically socialist progressive elements to shift the emphasis of the debate away from the nationalist agenda, free themselves from outside influence and carve out their own future in the fashion the people of the region wish.

2nd secretary I dont understand your point.

Neither in 2002 or 2008 was Serbian in the EU.

Tackle the issue, dont speak in riddles.

I am from Georgia and I have a cynical thing to say. I am very happy for Serbians that they will no longer need visas to travel to EU. It is immensely important especially for young poeple. But I am thinking maybe I should have voted for the crazy insane candidate in our elections and we as well would get better deals? EU is encapsulation of political opportunism and lack of any principles in foreign policy whatsoever. When Russians expelled 10,000 Georgians in matter of week and closed their entire market-70% of our export, what EU did to help us was exactly NOTHING.