Study puts Bosnia war toll at 97,207 people

This is more than 1/2 less than the inflated 200,000 propaganda figure to get militaries to attack the Bosnians Serbs and the JNA.

However, all this loss of life is equally bad and unnecessary, and we mourn those who lost their lives due to poor anti-Yugoslav and anti-Serb politics, as well as independent groups operating under their own code.

Joseph Stalin once said that the death of one person is a tragedy but the deaths of millions is a statistic.I am surprised to hear these actual numbers as opposed to the hundreds of thousands so many have been claiming(especially the Muslims).Having said this I wish every single soul to rest in peace and for all peoples to work together to prevent this kind of incident from occuring in Europe ever again.Does anybody know how many people from Bosnia emmigrated and are living outside of the Balkans?

It should also be noted that these totals include both civilian and military deaths. When the figure of 200,000/250,000 dead is circulated it is implied that they were all Bosniak civilians slaughtered by Serbs. The number of Bosniak civilians is rather about 50% of the 65,000 total, between 30,000-40,000- a morally appalling legacy of a war for which perpetrators must be punished, but not the "total and complete" genocide across all of Bosnia that some propaganda would have you beleive.

This number of civilian deaths while horrific is a small number relative to- for example the first international case against a state on the charge of genocide. Dozens of other countires have produced conflicts in which comparable or larger amounts of civilans were killed. Not even Rwanda, in which perhaps 800,000 Tutsis were killed could produce such a court case. I guess Black African lives have lesser political value than European White Muslim ones.

2007 estimate of BiH pop. is 3.93 million and the 1991 census was 4.37 million. The birthrate from 1981 to 1991 was establised as 1.46. So the net loss of population 91-'07 was 435,000. less 97,000 deaths gives 338,000. If you take into account the birth rate of 1.46 then this should increase by mroe than 400,000. So the figure for the number of emigres from bosnia is more than 738,000.
Very sad and very damaging for the future of BiH as many of these emigres were the best and brightest.

Although Tokaca's total numbers mostly match what the ICTY published, his break down is vastly different.

He's claimed in the past only 3,500 Serbian civilians were killed (roughly 9%) and that only 25% of the total deaths were Serbian.

Compared to the ICTY which claims roughly 30% of both civilian and military deaths were Serbian. Mirroring the population nearly exactly and no one in their right mind would accuse the ICTY of being Pro-Serb.

Which begs the question, if the ICTY believe the victim count reflects the population, why don't those accused at the Hague also mirror the population as closely? Seems to me that the vast majority of the articles here on B92 that are about Croatian or Bosniak criminals, its generally non-Serbians who are the victims of their crimes.

The case of Nassir Oric is interesting actually. The ICTY let him off the hook because they said the vast majority of the "wanton destruction" of Serbian villages was carried out by the thousands of Muslim civilians that followed his forces around, therefore it could not have been his duty to control them. Essentially condemning the victims of the Srebrenica massacre as criminals. What a strange verdict to say the least. Had this come out before the ICTY ruled on whether Srebrenica was genocide or not, it might have shed some light on the motivation behind those who committed that awful crime. Personally it seems to me it was more likely personal revenge and blood thirsty retaliatory murder rather then an orchestrated attempt from Belgrade to wipe the Bosniak people off the face of the Earth. This would seem to be supported by the fact that the majority of the victims were male, and in all likelihood the people the ICTY accused of the earlier massacres of the Serbian population. Of course when Albanians engage in these types of actions, its considered understandable retaliation, when Serbs do it, its called genocide.

Where's Victor? He just posted 50,000 innocent Bosniak civilians were killed in the first summer of the war. He also claims to use Tokaca as his source.

These figures for civilian and military deaths put paid to the perception that most people have, that the Bosnian war was all about violence against civilians. The report shows that only 40.8% of casualties were civilian.

If we compare this to WW2, which is generally perceived as a great clash of armies rather than a war of aggression against opposing civilian targets. It is estimated that WW2 resulted in 40 million deaths in Europe with 5 million of these being military personnel. Even when the 6 million German Holocaust victims and the 700,000 victims of the Ustashe are removed from the equation this gives us a civilian casualty figure of 84%, more than double that of the Bosnian war.

This does not mean to say I endorse or approve of civilian casualties but it does alter the media perception of soldiers in the Bosnian war spending all their days running around killing civilians.

On this site there is currently an article by William Montgomery where he perpetuates the myth that Balkan people are particularly nasty and "the nature of the fighting in the Balkans had a particularly personal, vicious nature to it."(quote from 'Tereza's House').

These figures show that people in the Balkans do NOT have a 'vicious nature' and are in fact quite restrained compare to what happens when the 'Great Powers' go to war with each other.

I hope they dont expect an apology. Yet they claim that because of this genocide RS should be abolished. I DONT THINK SO.

I am surprised the Croat numbers are so low.Considering the HVO ran amuck in Herzegovina.It sad that so many south Slavs died but at least the truth is slowly coming out.All sides were guilty but the Muslims got it from both us and the Croats.The biggest tragedy is our misery justified NATO exisiting on past the cold war and transforming into the military arm of US business interests.Now NATO is in the middle east which is way out of its jurisdiction protecting the oil pipelines being created to bypass the Russians.

Finally the truth, these figures are probably very close to the actually numbers give or take 10%. A far cry from the genocide of over 200,000 Muslim alone deaths we use to hear so much about.

Vojvoda, Luciano & Toronto1 your are all right about this being still a tragic number of deaths and it is also worth realising that there were in fact 3 seperate conflicts

Serbs Vs Croat & Muslim (Izetbegovic/Siladzjic)
Croats Vs Muslim (Izetbegovic/Siladzjic)
Muslim (Abdic) Vs Muslim (Izetbegovic/Siladzjic)

This tragic number reflects both military and civilian deaths over the 3 seperate conflicts during the 4 years of chaos and destruction that civil-war is. Yet it is a number that has been known for many years now but still the deception and misinformation in the mass media to fuel the anti-serb rhetoric has been on-going. At least now the truth of events and the reality is being heard and told and the lies can stop from the likes of people like Victor!

It might also be interesting to see the breakdown of casualties between the sexes. I would not be surprised at all if the number was perhaps 75% male for all warring factions- with some people engaging in combat in a grassroots manner without being officially registered as a soldier. Does anyone have info on the breakdown between sexes for the three ethnicities?

There are many more Muslims victims out there in mass graves in the RS or Serbia where nobody can yet enter and search. Entire families disappeared without leaving a trace, and the missing one reach the figure of 20 000.

These statisctics are temporary and will match the figures of 70% of all victims Muslims, and 30 % Serbs 7 Croats.

Phillip Verwimp, one of the experts who worked on the report, said: "Many consider the number of 96,895 as the overall total of victims of the 1992-95 war in Bosnia, which is not correct. For several reasons, this number should be seen as an approximation of a minimum and not as a complete total."

The project does not include people who died during the war in accidents, through reckless handling of weapons, or due to starvation or lack of medication.

If you all these victims, and those wgo over the years committed suicide, the overall total would possibly be between 150 000 and 200 000.

I've recently read that 20 000 are still missing from the Bosnian war. Therefore, I agree with Mr Phillip Verwimp who says that these numbers are an approximation and not the final figure of the civil war.

“I've recently read that 20 000 are still missing “ “the overall total would possibly be between 150 000 and 200 000. (Victor, Friday, 22 June, 2007, 22:40)”

Victor, Tokaca puts it best, you are merely “PLAYING WITH NUMBERS”, to suggest that Tokaca did not take into consideration the missing is simply outrageous;
“Tokaca said that the definitive number of victims might be higher, by 10,000 at the most, as the study is still underway.”
“During the war, local authorities in Sarajevo publicly stated that about 200,000 people were killed, but estimations vary from 25,000 to 250,000. According to Tokaca, this "playing with numbers" was the main reason why the RDC decided to collect the names and details of victims.”
http://www.indianmuslims.info/news/2007/jun/22/study_over_97_000_bosnians_killed_civil_war.html
Tokaca also puts the Srebrenica genocide at less the 7000…
“the centre's data suggested that 6,886 people were killed in the July 1995 massacre.”
http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=975462007
USE FACTS VICTOR!

This is more than 1/2 less than the inflated 200,000 propaganda figure to get militaries to attack the Bosnians Serbs and the JNA.

However, all this loss of life is equally bad and unnecessary, and we mourn those who lost their lives due to poor anti-Yugoslav and anti-Serb politics, as well as independent groups operating under their own code.

Joseph Stalin once said that the death of one person is a tragedy but the deaths of millions is a statistic.I am surprised to hear these actual numbers as opposed to the hundreds of thousands so many have been claiming(especially the Muslims).Having said this I wish every single soul to rest in peace and for all peoples to work together to prevent this kind of incident from occuring in Europe ever again.Does anybody know how many people from Bosnia emmigrated and are living outside of the Balkans?

It should also be noted that these totals include both civilian and military deaths. When the figure of 200,000/250,000 dead is circulated it is implied that they were all Bosniak civilians slaughtered by Serbs. The number of Bosniak civilians is rather about 50% of the 65,000 total, between 30,000-40,000- a morally appalling legacy of a war for which perpetrators must be punished, but not the "total and complete" genocide across all of Bosnia that some propaganda would have you beleive.

This number of civilian deaths while horrific is a small number relative to- for example the first international case against a state on the charge of genocide. Dozens of other countires have produced conflicts in which comparable or larger amounts of civilans were killed. Not even Rwanda, in which perhaps 800,000 Tutsis were killed could produce such a court case. I guess Black African lives have lesser political value than European White Muslim ones.

2007 estimate of BiH pop. is 3.93 million and the 1991 census was 4.37 million. The birthrate from 1981 to 1991 was establised as 1.46. So the net loss of population 91-'07 was 435,000. less 97,000 deaths gives 338,000. If you take into account the birth rate of 1.46 then this should increase by mroe than 400,000. So the figure for the number of emigres from bosnia is more than 738,000.
Very sad and very damaging for the future of BiH as many of these emigres were the best and brightest.

Although Tokaca's total numbers mostly match what the ICTY published, his break down is vastly different.

He's claimed in the past only 3,500 Serbian civilians were killed (roughly 9%) and that only 25% of the total deaths were Serbian.

Compared to the ICTY which claims roughly 30% of both civilian and military deaths were Serbian. Mirroring the population nearly exactly and no one in their right mind would accuse the ICTY of being Pro-Serb.

Which begs the question, if the ICTY believe the victim count reflects the population, why don't those accused at the Hague also mirror the population as closely? Seems to me that the vast majority of the articles here on B92 that are about Croatian or Bosniak criminals, its generally non-Serbians who are the victims of their crimes.

The case of Nassir Oric is interesting actually. The ICTY let him off the hook because they said the vast majority of the "wanton destruction" of Serbian villages was carried out by the thousands of Muslim civilians that followed his forces around, therefore it could not have been his duty to control them. Essentially condemning the victims of the Srebrenica massacre as criminals. What a strange verdict to say the least. Had this come out before the ICTY ruled on whether Srebrenica was genocide or not, it might have shed some light on the motivation behind those who committed that awful crime. Personally it seems to me it was more likely personal revenge and blood thirsty retaliatory murder rather then an orchestrated attempt from Belgrade to wipe the Bosniak people off the face of the Earth. This would seem to be supported by the fact that the majority of the victims were male, and in all likelihood the people the ICTY accused of the earlier massacres of the Serbian population. Of course when Albanians engage in these types of actions, its considered understandable retaliation, when Serbs do it, its called genocide.

Where's Victor? He just posted 50,000 innocent Bosniak civilians were killed in the first summer of the war. He also claims to use Tokaca as his source.

These figures for civilian and military deaths put paid to the perception that most people have, that the Bosnian war was all about violence against civilians. The report shows that only 40.8% of casualties were civilian.

If we compare this to WW2, which is generally perceived as a great clash of armies rather than a war of aggression against opposing civilian targets. It is estimated that WW2 resulted in 40 million deaths in Europe with 5 million of these being military personnel. Even when the 6 million German Holocaust victims and the 700,000 victims of the Ustashe are removed from the equation this gives us a civilian casualty figure of 84%, more than double that of the Bosnian war.

This does not mean to say I endorse or approve of civilian casualties but it does alter the media perception of soldiers in the Bosnian war spending all their days running around killing civilians.

On this site there is currently an article by William Montgomery where he perpetuates the myth that Balkan people are particularly nasty and "the nature of the fighting in the Balkans had a particularly personal, vicious nature to it."(quote from 'Tereza's House').

These figures show that people in the Balkans do NOT have a 'vicious nature' and are in fact quite restrained compare to what happens when the 'Great Powers' go to war with each other.

I hope they dont expect an apology. Yet they claim that because of this genocide RS should be abolished. I DONT THINK SO.

I am surprised the Croat numbers are so low.Considering the HVO ran amuck in Herzegovina.It sad that so many south Slavs died but at least the truth is slowly coming out.All sides were guilty but the Muslims got it from both us and the Croats.The biggest tragedy is our misery justified NATO exisiting on past the cold war and transforming into the military arm of US business interests.Now NATO is in the middle east which is way out of its jurisdiction protecting the oil pipelines being created to bypass the Russians.

Finally the truth, these figures are probably very close to the actually numbers give or take 10%. A far cry from the genocide of over 200,000 Muslim alone deaths we use to hear so much about.

Vojvoda, Luciano & Toronto1 your are all right about this being still a tragic number of deaths and it is also worth realising that there were in fact 3 seperate conflicts

Serbs Vs Croat & Muslim (Izetbegovic/Siladzjic)
Croats Vs Muslim (Izetbegovic/Siladzjic)
Muslim (Abdic) Vs Muslim (Izetbegovic/Siladzjic)

This tragic number reflects both military and civilian deaths over the 3 seperate conflicts during the 4 years of chaos and destruction that civil-war is. Yet it is a number that has been known for many years now but still the deception and misinformation in the mass media to fuel the anti-serb rhetoric has been on-going. At least now the truth of events and the reality is being heard and told and the lies can stop from the likes of people like Victor!

It might also be interesting to see the breakdown of casualties between the sexes. I would not be surprised at all if the number was perhaps 75% male for all warring factions- with some people engaging in combat in a grassroots manner without being officially registered as a soldier. Does anyone have info on the breakdown between sexes for the three ethnicities?

There are many more Muslims victims out there in mass graves in the RS or Serbia where nobody can yet enter and search. Entire families disappeared without leaving a trace, and the missing one reach the figure of 20 000.

These statisctics are temporary and will match the figures of 70% of all victims Muslims, and 30 % Serbs 7 Croats.

Phillip Verwimp, one of the experts who worked on the report, said: "Many consider the number of 96,895 as the overall total of victims of the 1992-95 war in Bosnia, which is not correct. For several reasons, this number should be seen as an approximation of a minimum and not as a complete total."

The project does not include people who died during the war in accidents, through reckless handling of weapons, or due to starvation or lack of medication.

If you all these victims, and those wgo over the years committed suicide, the overall total would possibly be between 150 000 and 200 000.

I've recently read that 20 000 are still missing from the Bosnian war. Therefore, I agree with Mr Phillip Verwimp who says that these numbers are an approximation and not the final figure of the civil war.

“I've recently read that 20 000 are still missing “ “the overall total would possibly be between 150 000 and 200 000. (Victor, Friday, 22 June, 2007, 22:40)”

Victor, Tokaca puts it best, you are merely “PLAYING WITH NUMBERS”, to suggest that Tokaca did not take into consideration the missing is simply outrageous;
“Tokaca said that the definitive number of victims might be higher, by 10,000 at the most, as the study is still underway.”
“During the war, local authorities in Sarajevo publicly stated that about 200,000 people were killed, but estimations vary from 25,000 to 250,000. According to Tokaca, this "playing with numbers" was the main reason why the RDC decided to collect the names and details of victims.”
http://www.indianmuslims.info/news/2007/jun/22/study_over_97_000_bosnians_killed_civil_war.html
Tokaca also puts the Srebrenica genocide at less the 7000…
“the centre's data suggested that 6,886 people were killed in the July 1995 massacre.”
http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=975462007
USE FACTS VICTOR!