Canada backs Kosovo plan, won’t rush in

The big picture is starting to look like that scene at the end of the movie Titanic where Di Caprio and his girl are holding on for dear life...except that in this case the two holding on for dear life is Serbia and Russia. The ship will sink nontheless, and Kosova will become independent. Look how many countries are supporting independence. Let Russia veto if it dares, cuz with all these countries recognizing Kosova alongside the USA, who needs them? If 3/4s of the world treats you as a separate country, and NATO guarantees your security, Serbia can scream and moan all it wants, it will not get its way, via Russia or otherwise!

“What would be your country’s reaction if you lost 15 % of your territory?”- it is a STUPID question that Serbs frequently ask countries who support Kosovo’s supervised independence. There is no reaction since countries who support independence do not mistreat their own citizens. They have no answer because they will not kill their own citizens, they have no answer because they don’t hate 25% of their population. It is not a coincidence that Kosovo was the last priority to Serbia, it is not a coincidence that the unemployment rate in Kosovo since 1989 is close to 50%. Things like this do not happen to countries who support Kosovo’s supervised independence, that’s why they don’t have an answer.

But Sidi, the scenario you describe will only happen if what you are saying is true about many countries recognising the unilaterally declared independence of which there is only speculation, but no real evidence it will happen.

If countries like the US do recognise the independence then they will be going against 1244 which they agreed to.

I am satisfied and glad that my country will recognize Kosovo's independence. After what happened in Kosovo, and all the Albanians who have sought refuge here, with all these women and childlren traumatised for years, Albanians have to be secured that they will never go through what they have been through.

Serbia now tries to bring new plans for the province, but it is too late. I don't know where were Tadic and Kostunica 10 years ago when it was time to discuss and negociate... Now, it is too late.

"no rush to unilaterally recognize Kosovo’s independence" is not a guarantee that Canada will recognize it.

Of course there is a strong anti-independence movement here in Canada. Our general MacKenzie has written extensively about how the Kosovo War was basically the European equivalent of Bush's "weapons of mass destruction" farce. Roughly 2,000- 3,000 bodies were found in mass graves rather than the 100,000 estimated by local media.

Don't be fooled by a statement from the government here which does not reflect huge swathes of public opinion. I can remember protesing the war in front of the U.S. Consulate in Toronto alongside Canadians of Chinese, Indian, Greek, Russian, and Carribean backgrounds with flags of their respective countries in hand.

Canada is more principled then this. Listen to what your former diplomats and generals said about the fighting in Kosovo and what they witnessed...no, its not the same story you heard from Fox News.

Canada should be aware of what they are saying when it comes to Kosovo, becuase an independent Kosovo could present a precedent for Quebec independence. If International law is violated and Serbia's concerns as a UN member state are not taken into account.

Oh, so 2000-3000 dead people are OK now! Even if it wasn't 100000 dead people, you would have to look more carefully in Belgrade politics and strategy towards Pristina. Everyone here seems to forget what happened in front of TV cameras on 1998. An entire population was expelled or forced away from their houses. Oh forgive me that doesn't count now, does it? All this noise about 200000 Serbs in Kosova is proper and justified. On the other hand, what about the other 2 million Albanians there? What about them?

And to refresh the CANADIAN quote above-how about the Albanian protest at the same time in Toronto- all these people there, don't they count the same?
I hope the sovereign state of Kosova would be a state that both Albanians and Serbs can live in peace. As the facts prove in day-to-day lives, they live in harmony, are even friends outside the Balkans. It's just dirty politics that present them as sworn enemies in Kosove.
Thank you.

I am satisfied and glad that my country will recognize Kosovo's independence.

(Victor, Tuesday, 24 April, 2007, 17:59)

Why dont' you try some of your hate speech to the various minorities in Canada and see what happens to you.

As a Canadian resident, I must say that our politics is a joke. In 1995 we offered independance to Quebec even though the British had defeated France for the sovereign territory in Canada. In Canada we don't know if the western provinces will secede or quebec--the sad part is that our politicians in Ottawa do not even have the courage to treat these provinces as provinces instead of republics. Plus we are only 120 years old so we still don't know who we are. Don't worry my Serbian friends, America doesn't take us seriously and neither should you!

Many Canadians are still very upset about the bombing of Yugoslavia.

The Canadian military was forced into jioning the bombing campaign through their Commitment to NATO without the knowledge or consent of the Canadian government.

I'm no expert on military history but this may be the first time in modern history that a National Army has gone to war without the knowledge or consent of the Sovereign government.

"I am satisfied and glad that my country will recognize Kosovo's independence."

Victor, ...instead of writing nonsense, and as it looks even hypothetical nonsense, you should better take care about your own country, where youths are cheering towards a rock-band that is playing with fascist-iconography ( Thompson ) ...instead of being "glad and satisfied" you should be ashamed and quite quiet!

your anti-serbian comments are really amusing ( at least for me, even if I can only imagine the pain that causes your flawed comments )

Yes, Canada is principled. When faced with a large population that wanted to secede, Canada held a referendum. Quebec voted, and chose to stay (albeit with a very small majority). Montenegro held a referendum and chose to go its own way, but would Serbia allow such a referendum in Kosovo?

The more I read comments from serbians in this webpage, the more I get amused from the way they interpret every daily news. Guys, make up your mind. 2 milions Albanians in Kosova will never live under Serbia anymore. You had the chanse to keep and treat peacefully this territory given to you in 1913, you did the contrary, you lost it. The sooner you get the idea of Kosova being independent the better is gonna be for serbs and the rest of Balkans.

Canadian, I see that you're not a 'pure' Canadian! What McKenzie has said is of no importance to me because he has been accused of rape and even Canada did not defend him! The public opinion has nothing to do with foreign politic, but I am satisfied with our ambassador's analysis on Kosovo. I would have abounded in the same direction.

Will Canada feel the same way should Quebec declare independence in the future?

If Canada supports Kosovo's secession from Serbia then it will be hard-pressed to deny Quebec the same right.

After 8-years of ethnic cleansing, and 200,000 non-Albanian refugees, Kosovo's Albanians are not in a position of moral superiority over anybody regardless of what did or didn't happen in 1999.

I would suggest that the vast majority of Canadians don't know where Kosovo is, couldn't find it on a map and simply don't care. They don't see the similarities to their own potential problems and if they were made aware of them, could not back this notion.

A Canadian diplomat in Belgrade doesn't pass on the Canadian populations opinion, he passes on the policy of his goverments desire to blindly follow big brother Bush's world plan to keep on the good side of its (Cd) biggest economical partner. It's a cash flow issue.

Candadian

Let me guess, those 2000 - 3000 victims where mostly KLA soldiers? Is that correct?

They are still finding bodies in mass graves in Serbia even now!

Stop that pathetic propaganda.

Luckily in 1999 we had cameras and reporters and the whole world saw what the serbs were doing.

Its one thing to oppose independence but it is sad and desperate to try and deny the crimes.

«Will Canada feel the same way should Quebec declare independence in the future?»

Canada wont have the choise, We're 85% French in Quebec and when a majority decides to secede, Quebec would become independent. And peacefully. The troops wont come to Quebec to kill civilians as the Serbs did in Kosovo.

In Kosovo, 90% of the population is Albanian and if the ppopulation decides to secede from Serbia, there is nobody on this earth, not even an army of professionnal killers (read soldiers) who are able to stop democracy.

VOX POPULI, VOX DEI!

Read what James Bisset, former Canadian ambassador to Yugoslavia, Bulgaria and Albania has to say about Yugoslav conflict in general and Kosovo in particular:
http://www.deltax.net/bissett/western.htm

i seem to remember the televised news of the albanian exodus beginning because nato started bombing - with canada's support. nato wants kosovo independent in order to save face, not to support dirt poor albanians.

I recently read about a survey taken by Canadian Muslims. In it about 12% of the respondents said that an alleged terrorist plot to murder the Canadian PM was justified. That's about 80,000 Canadian Muslims! Do Canadians really want that kind of CANCER to spread? Helping Kosovo Albanians to gain independence will only spread more fanaticism around the globe, including Canada. What is truly in your best interest?

Victor

Yes, the French are over 80% in Quebec but located mainly in and around the major cities of the south.

So by the same democratic principle that you expound, should the First Nations ethnic groups occupying most of Quebec in the central and northern parts decide to secede FROM Quebec, you will support them too right? If your answer is an unequivocal yes, then you have proven your point!

to VOX POPULI, VOX DEI!

you live in a dreamland. i am of european descent living on native land. quebec will have to negotiate with the first nations if quebec were to leave canada in one piece.

http://www.aptn.ca/streaming/index.php?wmv=contact/contact04182007

Aca

"support dirt poor albanians."
- did you forget a "y" there?!

Albanians didn't leave Kosovo because of NATO bombs. We were cheering every time they fell!

Albanians were forced out by serbs as a revenge for NATO bombs.

I still remember very clearly how my serb neighbour in Prishtina together with some armed friends - 7 days after NATO bombings statrted - told us that we had two choices, 1. leave in 5 mintutes for Albania or Macedonia, or 2. DIE.

«Yes, the French are over 80% in Quebec but located mainly in and around the major cities of the south. »

In Canada, 85% of French Canadians reside in Quebec where they constitute the majority of the population in all regions except the far North. Most cities and villages in this province were built and settled by the French or French Canadians during the French colonial rule.

THere are a few Indians living in Quebec and I am sure that the Hurons, Monatgnais, Cree, Abenakis, and others... will chose Quebec where to live instead of Canada. They are Quebecers like most of the French their desire is to live with us. I am sure that they will join with us to celebrate our independence.

« 1. leave in 5 mintutes for Albania or Macedonia, or 2. DIE.»
(
Nikshala,

I have also heard and read that many Serbs paramilitaries would ask for money: so much for a child, so much for a woman and so much for a man... Paid in Deutch Marks!

IS THIS TRUE ?

Victor

I believe you have missed my point. The 1995 independence referendum failed by a slim margin and many commentators attributed it to the First Nations voters voting overwhelmingly against a French-dominated free Quebec. I am not convinced that people from the First Nations have since changed their minds.

More likely, if push comes to shove, I believe the ethnic minorities would rather have their own sovereignty than be under ethnic French rule.
Would you then accept the north's breakaway from Quebec? ie. a Republic of Quebec in south Quebec for the French and the north either remaining part of Canada or becoming the Republic of First Nations?

There are important differences between Quebec and Kosovo. Whereas the legal basis for eventual independence of Quebec exists, there is no such basis for Kosovo. All that is hapening now is centered around providing the legal basis for secession (i.e. UN resolution) or avoiding it altogether (i.e. unilateral recognition).

The big picture is starting to look like that scene at the end of the movie Titanic where Di Caprio and his girl are holding on for dear life...except that in this case the two holding on for dear life is Serbia and Russia. The ship will sink nontheless, and Kosova will become independent. Look how many countries are supporting independence. Let Russia veto if it dares, cuz with all these countries recognizing Kosova alongside the USA, who needs them? If 3/4s of the world treats you as a separate country, and NATO guarantees your security, Serbia can scream and moan all it wants, it will not get its way, via Russia or otherwise!

“What would be your country’s reaction if you lost 15 % of your territory?”- it is a STUPID question that Serbs frequently ask countries who support Kosovo’s supervised independence. There is no reaction since countries who support independence do not mistreat their own citizens. They have no answer because they will not kill their own citizens, they have no answer because they don’t hate 25% of their population. It is not a coincidence that Kosovo was the last priority to Serbia, it is not a coincidence that the unemployment rate in Kosovo since 1989 is close to 50%. Things like this do not happen to countries who support Kosovo’s supervised independence, that’s why they don’t have an answer.

But Sidi, the scenario you describe will only happen if what you are saying is true about many countries recognising the unilaterally declared independence of which there is only speculation, but no real evidence it will happen.

If countries like the US do recognise the independence then they will be going against 1244 which they agreed to.

I am satisfied and glad that my country will recognize Kosovo's independence. After what happened in Kosovo, and all the Albanians who have sought refuge here, with all these women and childlren traumatised for years, Albanians have to be secured that they will never go through what they have been through.

Serbia now tries to bring new plans for the province, but it is too late. I don't know where were Tadic and Kostunica 10 years ago when it was time to discuss and negociate... Now, it is too late.

"no rush to unilaterally recognize Kosovo’s independence" is not a guarantee that Canada will recognize it.

Of course there is a strong anti-independence movement here in Canada. Our general MacKenzie has written extensively about how the Kosovo War was basically the European equivalent of Bush's "weapons of mass destruction" farce. Roughly 2,000- 3,000 bodies were found in mass graves rather than the 100,000 estimated by local media.

Don't be fooled by a statement from the government here which does not reflect huge swathes of public opinion. I can remember protesing the war in front of the U.S. Consulate in Toronto alongside Canadians of Chinese, Indian, Greek, Russian, and Carribean backgrounds with flags of their respective countries in hand.

Canada is more principled then this. Listen to what your former diplomats and generals said about the fighting in Kosovo and what they witnessed...no, its not the same story you heard from Fox News.

Canada should be aware of what they are saying when it comes to Kosovo, becuase an independent Kosovo could present a precedent for Quebec independence. If International law is violated and Serbia's concerns as a UN member state are not taken into account.

Oh, so 2000-3000 dead people are OK now! Even if it wasn't 100000 dead people, you would have to look more carefully in Belgrade politics and strategy towards Pristina. Everyone here seems to forget what happened in front of TV cameras on 1998. An entire population was expelled or forced away from their houses. Oh forgive me that doesn't count now, does it? All this noise about 200000 Serbs in Kosova is proper and justified. On the other hand, what about the other 2 million Albanians there? What about them?

And to refresh the CANADIAN quote above-how about the Albanian protest at the same time in Toronto- all these people there, don't they count the same?
I hope the sovereign state of Kosova would be a state that both Albanians and Serbs can live in peace. As the facts prove in day-to-day lives, they live in harmony, are even friends outside the Balkans. It's just dirty politics that present them as sworn enemies in Kosove.
Thank you.

I am satisfied and glad that my country will recognize Kosovo's independence.

(Victor, Tuesday, 24 April, 2007, 17:59)

Why dont' you try some of your hate speech to the various minorities in Canada and see what happens to you.

As a Canadian resident, I must say that our politics is a joke. In 1995 we offered independance to Quebec even though the British had defeated France for the sovereign territory in Canada. In Canada we don't know if the western provinces will secede or quebec--the sad part is that our politicians in Ottawa do not even have the courage to treat these provinces as provinces instead of republics. Plus we are only 120 years old so we still don't know who we are. Don't worry my Serbian friends, America doesn't take us seriously and neither should you!

Many Canadians are still very upset about the bombing of Yugoslavia.

The Canadian military was forced into jioning the bombing campaign through their Commitment to NATO without the knowledge or consent of the Canadian government.

I'm no expert on military history but this may be the first time in modern history that a National Army has gone to war without the knowledge or consent of the Sovereign government.

"I am satisfied and glad that my country will recognize Kosovo's independence."

Victor, ...instead of writing nonsense, and as it looks even hypothetical nonsense, you should better take care about your own country, where youths are cheering towards a rock-band that is playing with fascist-iconography ( Thompson ) ...instead of being "glad and satisfied" you should be ashamed and quite quiet!

your anti-serbian comments are really amusing ( at least for me, even if I can only imagine the pain that causes your flawed comments )

Yes, Canada is principled. When faced with a large population that wanted to secede, Canada held a referendum. Quebec voted, and chose to stay (albeit with a very small majority). Montenegro held a referendum and chose to go its own way, but would Serbia allow such a referendum in Kosovo?

The more I read comments from serbians in this webpage, the more I get amused from the way they interpret every daily news. Guys, make up your mind. 2 milions Albanians in Kosova will never live under Serbia anymore. You had the chanse to keep and treat peacefully this territory given to you in 1913, you did the contrary, you lost it. The sooner you get the idea of Kosova being independent the better is gonna be for serbs and the rest of Balkans.

Canadian, I see that you're not a 'pure' Canadian! What McKenzie has said is of no importance to me because he has been accused of rape and even Canada did not defend him! The public opinion has nothing to do with foreign politic, but I am satisfied with our ambassador's analysis on Kosovo. I would have abounded in the same direction.

Will Canada feel the same way should Quebec declare independence in the future?

If Canada supports Kosovo's secession from Serbia then it will be hard-pressed to deny Quebec the same right.

After 8-years of ethnic cleansing, and 200,000 non-Albanian refugees, Kosovo's Albanians are not in a position of moral superiority over anybody regardless of what did or didn't happen in 1999.

I would suggest that the vast majority of Canadians don't know where Kosovo is, couldn't find it on a map and simply don't care. They don't see the similarities to their own potential problems and if they were made aware of them, could not back this notion.

A Canadian diplomat in Belgrade doesn't pass on the Canadian populations opinion, he passes on the policy of his goverments desire to blindly follow big brother Bush's world plan to keep on the good side of its (Cd) biggest economical partner. It's a cash flow issue.

Candadian

Let me guess, those 2000 - 3000 victims where mostly KLA soldiers? Is that correct?

They are still finding bodies in mass graves in Serbia even now!

Stop that pathetic propaganda.

Luckily in 1999 we had cameras and reporters and the whole world saw what the serbs were doing.

Its one thing to oppose independence but it is sad and desperate to try and deny the crimes.

«Will Canada feel the same way should Quebec declare independence in the future?»

Canada wont have the choise, We're 85% French in Quebec and when a majority decides to secede, Quebec would become independent. And peacefully. The troops wont come to Quebec to kill civilians as the Serbs did in Kosovo.

In Kosovo, 90% of the population is Albanian and if the ppopulation decides to secede from Serbia, there is nobody on this earth, not even an army of professionnal killers (read soldiers) who are able to stop democracy.

VOX POPULI, VOX DEI!

Read what James Bisset, former Canadian ambassador to Yugoslavia, Bulgaria and Albania has to say about Yugoslav conflict in general and Kosovo in particular:
http://www.deltax.net/bissett/western.htm

i seem to remember the televised news of the albanian exodus beginning because nato started bombing - with canada's support. nato wants kosovo independent in order to save face, not to support dirt poor albanians.

I recently read about a survey taken by Canadian Muslims. In it about 12% of the respondents said that an alleged terrorist plot to murder the Canadian PM was justified. That's about 80,000 Canadian Muslims! Do Canadians really want that kind of CANCER to spread? Helping Kosovo Albanians to gain independence will only spread more fanaticism around the globe, including Canada. What is truly in your best interest?

Victor

Yes, the French are over 80% in Quebec but located mainly in and around the major cities of the south.

So by the same democratic principle that you expound, should the First Nations ethnic groups occupying most of Quebec in the central and northern parts decide to secede FROM Quebec, you will support them too right? If your answer is an unequivocal yes, then you have proven your point!

to VOX POPULI, VOX DEI!

you live in a dreamland. i am of european descent living on native land. quebec will have to negotiate with the first nations if quebec were to leave canada in one piece.

http://www.aptn.ca/streaming/index.php?wmv=contact/contact04182007

Aca

"support dirt poor albanians."
- did you forget a "y" there?!

Albanians didn't leave Kosovo because of NATO bombs. We were cheering every time they fell!

Albanians were forced out by serbs as a revenge for NATO bombs.

I still remember very clearly how my serb neighbour in Prishtina together with some armed friends - 7 days after NATO bombings statrted - told us that we had two choices, 1. leave in 5 mintutes for Albania or Macedonia, or 2. DIE.

«Yes, the French are over 80% in Quebec but located mainly in and around the major cities of the south. »

In Canada, 85% of French Canadians reside in Quebec where they constitute the majority of the population in all regions except the far North. Most cities and villages in this province were built and settled by the French or French Canadians during the French colonial rule.

THere are a few Indians living in Quebec and I am sure that the Hurons, Monatgnais, Cree, Abenakis, and others... will chose Quebec where to live instead of Canada. They are Quebecers like most of the French their desire is to live with us. I am sure that they will join with us to celebrate our independence.

« 1. leave in 5 mintutes for Albania or Macedonia, or 2. DIE.»
(
Nikshala,

I have also heard and read that many Serbs paramilitaries would ask for money: so much for a child, so much for a woman and so much for a man... Paid in Deutch Marks!

IS THIS TRUE ?

Victor

I believe you have missed my point. The 1995 independence referendum failed by a slim margin and many commentators attributed it to the First Nations voters voting overwhelmingly against a French-dominated free Quebec. I am not convinced that people from the First Nations have since changed their minds.

More likely, if push comes to shove, I believe the ethnic minorities would rather have their own sovereignty than be under ethnic French rule.
Would you then accept the north's breakaway from Quebec? ie. a Republic of Quebec in south Quebec for the French and the north either remaining part of Canada or becoming the Republic of First Nations?

There are important differences between Quebec and Kosovo. Whereas the legal basis for eventual independence of Quebec exists, there is no such basis for Kosovo. All that is hapening now is centered around providing the legal basis for secession (i.e. UN resolution) or avoiding it altogether (i.e. unilateral recognition).