Playing "chicken"

Unbelievable - Serbia and Russia will not roll over and do as they are told, therefore they are obstructing. Don't any of the Western diplomats and commentators see how one-sided and unfair their thinking is? Not to mention dangerous and illegal.

Serbia should let Kosovo go only in return for Republika Srpska being granted independence if they so wish. Why don't the USA and Europe answer this simple question: why are the Serb minorities never allowed to secede and become independent, yet every other minority is allowed to break away from Serb lands?

"If it were up to Russia, Slobodan Milosevic would still rule Serbia. Following the September 24, 2000 elections, Russia did not intervene to encourage Milosevic to accept the results."

William Montgomery's memory here isn't correct. After the 1st round of the 2000 Yugoslav presidential election Kostunica had 48.96% and Milosevic had 38.62% so there was to have been a second round. Of course Kostunica claimed he had more than 50% and refused to take part in the second round. After the overthrow and some ballots were burnt the election commission produced new figures which showed Kostunica with 50.24%.

Had the second round taken place as it should Kostunica would have almost certainly won anyway.

One thing is more than likely - if Russia had got its way and then Milosevic would have got the medical treatment he needed at the Bakulev Medical Institute in Moscow and would still be alive today.

whats the point of delayin the desicion for one year1 things will not change in one year. The albanians resolve for independence or serbian resitance to it has not changes for at least the last 20 years (last 8 years as post-99 era), so it is not going to change in a year.

status-quo is unsustainable.

This will always be a difficult desicion.

I do understand this question about Republika Srpska, but I don't understand comparison between RS and Kosovo. It seems that some of the people in this forum doesn't know constituition of ex-Yu and if so they need some lections about it.
Another difference is how RS became as what is for a moment - through ethnic cleaning, open military and all kind of support from Serbia,... International community can release Serbia from this responsibility, but people suffering from it for years will never forget and forgive.
Talking about Rusia and Milosevic - who can guarantee that Milosevic and Arkan are dead?

every other minority breaks away from serbia? what, so bosnia and croatia are actually serbian? This mentalithy not to mention unjustified violent attrocities by serbs is why they get no favours. ask yourself why no one in the region likes serbia....even the beloved montenegro.

and if serbia doesnt roll over, russia will. and serbia cant do anything to stop it and its the west thats the future, not the corrupt and almost communist east. perhaps thats where serbia belongs.

as for milosevic being treated....it was in world interest that he was alive and found guilty, however it is only in russias and serbias interest that he was dead so if anything, his death did serbs a favour.

Well daniel it was the ICTY judges that decided against him having the treatment and not Serbia and Russia. Had he stayed alive either they would have had to find him not guilty or find him guilty and write a verdict that contradicted the evidence.

Kosovo and culture and religion is more important to Serbs than any EU membership. That stuff is meaningless if there is no culture. What is it to gain EU membership but lose your country.

So Kosovo enters this interim period of EU occupation and development? Haven't we suggested that before? Wasn't it called something like, um, Standards before Status? When did we abandon that principle?

Sweet-talking Montgomery goes full throttle...

But the Russian have no brake pedal, unfortunately, for the U.S.

There is too much petrol in Russia's tanks now and Montgomery feels that moving along will force the U.S. to get involved in another silly little war when they actually should prepare another one...

Russia, of course, is fully aware of that. And all the U.S. has left to say is
BLAME BLAME BLAME THE OTHERS.

I would like the hear an Albanian response to the current "Blame" tactics employed by the U.S.

Why is there a need for it? Why is there the need to raise the spectre of war, clashes when Kosovans are apparently prepared to get independence.

best,
+/-

Brian

Its this 'culture' and 'religion' that got the serbs to where they are today. And the whole region for the matter.

Serbs keep spreading propaganda about terrorism and ismalic extremism in kosovo, but you never hear albanians going on about the religion or mosques.

If anything, we should be worried about orthodox extremism. It is the serbs that keep refering to albanians as 'muslims', but you never hear albanians refering to serbs as'christians' or 'orthodox'.

Religion only creates division. I can't believe that there are people in 21st century that still refer to unverified events and buildings fo 12th or 13th or 14th century

Actions speak louder than words nikshala. The past 8 years in Kosovo has seen the destruction of 150 churches and the construction of 200 mosques.

The West has dropped the demand "Standards Before Status" because they have realised that Kosovo Albania will not reach any democratic standards for decades without a heavy and continuos involvement of EU.
Kosovo is an economic basketcase. Over 70% are unemployed. Crime and corruption are florishing (despite the presence of UN and NATO) and is being exported to Europe in the form of drugs, prostitution and slave trade.
The Albanian criminal gangs have taken from the Sicilian Mafia in Europe.
The Serbs in Kosovo want to live in a normal democratic country where their lives and property is secure. That is why they prefer the Democratic Serbia to a failed Albanian state which would be called Kosova.
An independent Kosova would encourage the big Albanian minority in Macedonia to demand another independent Albanian state in the Balkans.

To Philip Davies: How many mosques did Serbs burn during the nineties? why do you fail to mention that?

Mr. Montgomery,
you should not have had write your article.
Well known, it is part of your forging propaganda repeated for years that you started to believe in it from your full hart.
You are implanting bombs, terror and financial might to bribe, while your words are quasi-logical throwing dust in eyes, covering your political wrongdoings.
Nothing new for these decades in the world.
Tragedy is that you are steadily monotonic.

Kujtim, can you name one mosque in Kosovo that has been burned by the Serbs during the 1990s?

How infuriating and short sighted. Chickens, trojan horses. You suggest that it will be the US and the EU who will pay the price (In dollars only! Which could be argued they have a responsibility for regardless).Surely you haven't forgotten the people of this region they won't be paying with dollars nor dinars. Another analogy springs to mind (sorry but inkeeping with animal theme). Putting the cart before the horse. Since the expultion of serb forces and administration. The question as to whether an albanian majority in kosovo has a right to independence. Is what commitment and evidence so far is there of creating a multi ethnic state?

The most amazing aspect of this article is that the author expects that anyone might believe it.

Mr. Montgomery continues to promote same ol', same ol'.
We've seen it all before.

"In exchange for this "carrot," the majority Kosovo Albanians would have to accept a band of specific conditions, which would give the Serbian minority as many or more rights and privileges than any other minority in Europe. "

It just happen so that Serbs are not minority in Serbia. We've seen this before. Why don't you try to convince Albanians to accept "more rights and privileges than any other minority" in Serbia?
Or perhaps, Serbs in some part of Germany should get independance? I'm sure that they would be willing to accept a band of specific conditions, which would give the German "minority" as many or more rights and privileges than any other minority in Europe.

I would not even go on to criticise other things in the article.
Let's be conctructive here.
First of all, many in Serbia are already looking toward Russia. It has nothing to do with Kosovo.
It's with Russia that Serbia has largest trade deficit, due to energy, (oil and gas) that is comming from there. Mr. Mongomery himself wrote one article here, about dwindling energy supply and possibility of conflicts in the future over it. Wouldn't it be logical for Serbia to secure this vital supply by forging strong ties with the country that has them?
It would. It would make sense in many ways.
This should not mean that Serbia should be in bad relationship with EU or US or anyone else.
The region is already surrounded by EU. It's only logical to develope mutually useful trade and other ties.
Switzerland is a fine example of this being possible.
What worries me is Mongomery's claim that "Russia will be happy with an isolated Serbia, cut off from the EU, and even facing sanctions again"
Isolated? Sanctions?
Where it this comming from? Sanctions for what?
Don't tell me that Western countries would resort to those things just because Serbia is cooperating with Russia in mutual interest?
In that case he should not have put remarks about Russia's "bullying of the "near abroad" countries" in the same article. It makes it all too obvious for all that resemblance between the West and Russia is amazing.
Let's just hope that policy-makers on the West don't think the way Montgomery does.

He also goes to say: "What is very important for the Serbian people to understand, however, is that Russia's objective is not to help Serbia..."
Oh, now I get it. Russia doesn't really care about us or our well-being.
But, we know that very well. Just as we know that West doesn't care about us or our well-being either.
Perhaps I should quote Mr. Mongomery himself to refresh our memory.

In article "Conflict of Interest" written by him just over year ago (March 6, 2006).
he comments on Serbia's internal situation and turning away from EU.

Quote:

"...increased nationalism and instability in Serbia are falling on deaf ears and will continue to do so. To paraphrase Clark Gable’s famous line to Scarlet O’Hara in “Gone with the Wind,” “Frankly my dear, we don’t give a damn!” "

Falling on deaf ears. Meaning, they don't want to hear us and "frankly, they don't give a damn what we have to say"

The article ends like this.

"I do believe that the International Community has decided that if the Serbs want to isolate themselves and fall behind the rest of Europe, the only ones to be really effected by that will be the Serbs themselves. So the Serbian government should not look to the EU or the United States for sympathy or support in the tough times that lie ahead. Those days ended a few years ago."

We all know that there are hard times ahead for us. And for a long time now, we know very well that we should not look to the US not to the EU for any support or symphaty in those tough times.
It was only natural to start looking somewhere else.

The point is that we know that neither West nor East really cares about us. The politics should not be decided on "caring" to begin with, but on pragmatic and rational thinking.
I'm increasinglly convinced that Russia is where we need to look, while establishing ties and good relationship to EU.

Good post sreten.

I would like to add one thing to go with your comments. Serbia is the only country in western europe which has a free trade agreement with russia. This makes investing in serbia a very attractive proposition for european and U.S. corporations.

Personally I’m an impartial person that I don’t know so much about this area of the world but I’m trying to educate myself about and these posts are very helpful to hear from real people and not from the politicians.
It seems to me that Mr. Montgomery gives a chilling account of the events and how the situation can unfold after few given scenarios. To the Serbs that chilling reality is not bearable at the moment and Russia is not helping that either, but it is doing just the opposite it is throwing more kerosene on the Serbian fire. The international community is giving them time to get out of the nationalistic “cocoon” but Still Serbs think that Price Dusan is going to come from the skies and rescue them. It is the politics of self-destruction. I feel sorry for people of Serbia and its politicians.
I would like to see what it is that Serbian commentators here suggest with regard to Albanians. We suppose that a scenario works by giving Serbs what they want give to them Kosovo with 2 million Albanians in it. What the Serbs are going to do with those unruly Albanians? How you people think about the generation that was 14 years old on 1999 and now is 23 years old are going to conform to the Serbian rule.
You think that the generation that has grown up without knowing any Serbian apartheid will be convinced to follow Serbian rules.

Sergio,

what is it you don´t understand in the sentence "Albanians shall rule themselves but without grabbing the territory"???

and, don´t you find it a little bit selfdegrading to come up with any "price Dusans"? is that all you have to contribute to the debate?

well, thanks then.

Unbelievable - Serbia and Russia will not roll over and do as they are told, therefore they are obstructing. Don't any of the Western diplomats and commentators see how one-sided and unfair their thinking is? Not to mention dangerous and illegal.

Serbia should let Kosovo go only in return for Republika Srpska being granted independence if they so wish. Why don't the USA and Europe answer this simple question: why are the Serb minorities never allowed to secede and become independent, yet every other minority is allowed to break away from Serb lands?

"If it were up to Russia, Slobodan Milosevic would still rule Serbia. Following the September 24, 2000 elections, Russia did not intervene to encourage Milosevic to accept the results."

William Montgomery's memory here isn't correct. After the 1st round of the 2000 Yugoslav presidential election Kostunica had 48.96% and Milosevic had 38.62% so there was to have been a second round. Of course Kostunica claimed he had more than 50% and refused to take part in the second round. After the overthrow and some ballots were burnt the election commission produced new figures which showed Kostunica with 50.24%.

Had the second round taken place as it should Kostunica would have almost certainly won anyway.

One thing is more than likely - if Russia had got its way and then Milosevic would have got the medical treatment he needed at the Bakulev Medical Institute in Moscow and would still be alive today.

whats the point of delayin the desicion for one year1 things will not change in one year. The albanians resolve for independence or serbian resitance to it has not changes for at least the last 20 years (last 8 years as post-99 era), so it is not going to change in a year.

status-quo is unsustainable.

This will always be a difficult desicion.

I do understand this question about Republika Srpska, but I don't understand comparison between RS and Kosovo. It seems that some of the people in this forum doesn't know constituition of ex-Yu and if so they need some lections about it.
Another difference is how RS became as what is for a moment - through ethnic cleaning, open military and all kind of support from Serbia,... International community can release Serbia from this responsibility, but people suffering from it for years will never forget and forgive.
Talking about Rusia and Milosevic - who can guarantee that Milosevic and Arkan are dead?

every other minority breaks away from serbia? what, so bosnia and croatia are actually serbian? This mentalithy not to mention unjustified violent attrocities by serbs is why they get no favours. ask yourself why no one in the region likes serbia....even the beloved montenegro.

and if serbia doesnt roll over, russia will. and serbia cant do anything to stop it and its the west thats the future, not the corrupt and almost communist east. perhaps thats where serbia belongs.

as for milosevic being treated....it was in world interest that he was alive and found guilty, however it is only in russias and serbias interest that he was dead so if anything, his death did serbs a favour.

Well daniel it was the ICTY judges that decided against him having the treatment and not Serbia and Russia. Had he stayed alive either they would have had to find him not guilty or find him guilty and write a verdict that contradicted the evidence.

Kosovo and culture and religion is more important to Serbs than any EU membership. That stuff is meaningless if there is no culture. What is it to gain EU membership but lose your country.

So Kosovo enters this interim period of EU occupation and development? Haven't we suggested that before? Wasn't it called something like, um, Standards before Status? When did we abandon that principle?

Sweet-talking Montgomery goes full throttle...

But the Russian have no brake pedal, unfortunately, for the U.S.

There is too much petrol in Russia's tanks now and Montgomery feels that moving along will force the U.S. to get involved in another silly little war when they actually should prepare another one...

Russia, of course, is fully aware of that. And all the U.S. has left to say is
BLAME BLAME BLAME THE OTHERS.

I would like the hear an Albanian response to the current "Blame" tactics employed by the U.S.

Why is there a need for it? Why is there the need to raise the spectre of war, clashes when Kosovans are apparently prepared to get independence.

best,
+/-

Brian

Its this 'culture' and 'religion' that got the serbs to where they are today. And the whole region for the matter.

Serbs keep spreading propaganda about terrorism and ismalic extremism in kosovo, but you never hear albanians going on about the religion or mosques.

If anything, we should be worried about orthodox extremism. It is the serbs that keep refering to albanians as 'muslims', but you never hear albanians refering to serbs as'christians' or 'orthodox'.

Religion only creates division. I can't believe that there are people in 21st century that still refer to unverified events and buildings fo 12th or 13th or 14th century

Actions speak louder than words nikshala. The past 8 years in Kosovo has seen the destruction of 150 churches and the construction of 200 mosques.

The West has dropped the demand "Standards Before Status" because they have realised that Kosovo Albania will not reach any democratic standards for decades without a heavy and continuos involvement of EU.
Kosovo is an economic basketcase. Over 70% are unemployed. Crime and corruption are florishing (despite the presence of UN and NATO) and is being exported to Europe in the form of drugs, prostitution and slave trade.
The Albanian criminal gangs have taken from the Sicilian Mafia in Europe.
The Serbs in Kosovo want to live in a normal democratic country where their lives and property is secure. That is why they prefer the Democratic Serbia to a failed Albanian state which would be called Kosova.
An independent Kosova would encourage the big Albanian minority in Macedonia to demand another independent Albanian state in the Balkans.

To Philip Davies: How many mosques did Serbs burn during the nineties? why do you fail to mention that?

Mr. Montgomery,
you should not have had write your article.
Well known, it is part of your forging propaganda repeated for years that you started to believe in it from your full hart.
You are implanting bombs, terror and financial might to bribe, while your words are quasi-logical throwing dust in eyes, covering your political wrongdoings.
Nothing new for these decades in the world.
Tragedy is that you are steadily monotonic.

Kujtim, can you name one mosque in Kosovo that has been burned by the Serbs during the 1990s?

How infuriating and short sighted. Chickens, trojan horses. You suggest that it will be the US and the EU who will pay the price (In dollars only! Which could be argued they have a responsibility for regardless).Surely you haven't forgotten the people of this region they won't be paying with dollars nor dinars. Another analogy springs to mind (sorry but inkeeping with animal theme). Putting the cart before the horse. Since the expultion of serb forces and administration. The question as to whether an albanian majority in kosovo has a right to independence. Is what commitment and evidence so far is there of creating a multi ethnic state?

The most amazing aspect of this article is that the author expects that anyone might believe it.

Mr. Montgomery continues to promote same ol', same ol'.
We've seen it all before.

"In exchange for this "carrot," the majority Kosovo Albanians would have to accept a band of specific conditions, which would give the Serbian minority as many or more rights and privileges than any other minority in Europe. "

It just happen so that Serbs are not minority in Serbia. We've seen this before. Why don't you try to convince Albanians to accept "more rights and privileges than any other minority" in Serbia?
Or perhaps, Serbs in some part of Germany should get independance? I'm sure that they would be willing to accept a band of specific conditions, which would give the German "minority" as many or more rights and privileges than any other minority in Europe.

I would not even go on to criticise other things in the article.
Let's be conctructive here.
First of all, many in Serbia are already looking toward Russia. It has nothing to do with Kosovo.
It's with Russia that Serbia has largest trade deficit, due to energy, (oil and gas) that is comming from there. Mr. Mongomery himself wrote one article here, about dwindling energy supply and possibility of conflicts in the future over it. Wouldn't it be logical for Serbia to secure this vital supply by forging strong ties with the country that has them?
It would. It would make sense in many ways.
This should not mean that Serbia should be in bad relationship with EU or US or anyone else.
The region is already surrounded by EU. It's only logical to develope mutually useful trade and other ties.
Switzerland is a fine example of this being possible.
What worries me is Mongomery's claim that "Russia will be happy with an isolated Serbia, cut off from the EU, and even facing sanctions again"
Isolated? Sanctions?
Where it this comming from? Sanctions for what?
Don't tell me that Western countries would resort to those things just because Serbia is cooperating with Russia in mutual interest?
In that case he should not have put remarks about Russia's "bullying of the "near abroad" countries" in the same article. It makes it all too obvious for all that resemblance between the West and Russia is amazing.
Let's just hope that policy-makers on the West don't think the way Montgomery does.

He also goes to say: "What is very important for the Serbian people to understand, however, is that Russia's objective is not to help Serbia..."
Oh, now I get it. Russia doesn't really care about us or our well-being.
But, we know that very well. Just as we know that West doesn't care about us or our well-being either.
Perhaps I should quote Mr. Mongomery himself to refresh our memory.

In article "Conflict of Interest" written by him just over year ago (March 6, 2006).
he comments on Serbia's internal situation and turning away from EU.

Quote:

"...increased nationalism and instability in Serbia are falling on deaf ears and will continue to do so. To paraphrase Clark Gable’s famous line to Scarlet O’Hara in “Gone with the Wind,” “Frankly my dear, we don’t give a damn!” "

Falling on deaf ears. Meaning, they don't want to hear us and "frankly, they don't give a damn what we have to say"

The article ends like this.

"I do believe that the International Community has decided that if the Serbs want to isolate themselves and fall behind the rest of Europe, the only ones to be really effected by that will be the Serbs themselves. So the Serbian government should not look to the EU or the United States for sympathy or support in the tough times that lie ahead. Those days ended a few years ago."

We all know that there are hard times ahead for us. And for a long time now, we know very well that we should not look to the US not to the EU for any support or symphaty in those tough times.
It was only natural to start looking somewhere else.

The point is that we know that neither West nor East really cares about us. The politics should not be decided on "caring" to begin with, but on pragmatic and rational thinking.
I'm increasinglly convinced that Russia is where we need to look, while establishing ties and good relationship to EU.

Good post sreten.

I would like to add one thing to go with your comments. Serbia is the only country in western europe which has a free trade agreement with russia. This makes investing in serbia a very attractive proposition for european and U.S. corporations.

Personally I’m an impartial person that I don’t know so much about this area of the world but I’m trying to educate myself about and these posts are very helpful to hear from real people and not from the politicians.
It seems to me that Mr. Montgomery gives a chilling account of the events and how the situation can unfold after few given scenarios. To the Serbs that chilling reality is not bearable at the moment and Russia is not helping that either, but it is doing just the opposite it is throwing more kerosene on the Serbian fire. The international community is giving them time to get out of the nationalistic “cocoon” but Still Serbs think that Price Dusan is going to come from the skies and rescue them. It is the politics of self-destruction. I feel sorry for people of Serbia and its politicians.
I would like to see what it is that Serbian commentators here suggest with regard to Albanians. We suppose that a scenario works by giving Serbs what they want give to them Kosovo with 2 million Albanians in it. What the Serbs are going to do with those unruly Albanians? How you people think about the generation that was 14 years old on 1999 and now is 23 years old are going to conform to the Serbian rule.
You think that the generation that has grown up without knowing any Serbian apartheid will be convinced to follow Serbian rules.

Sergio,

what is it you don´t understand in the sentence "Albanians shall rule themselves but without grabbing the territory"???

and, don´t you find it a little bit selfdegrading to come up with any "price Dusans"? is that all you have to contribute to the debate?

well, thanks then.