Internal independence for Kosovo

Maybe the UN secretay general himself will bring a new perspective on the way ahead given that plan A-thisarri needs to be improved on. Lets hope plan B-an Ki Moon can apprectiate the offer put forth by Serbia and we can still get win-win.

I believe Belgrade is no longer in a position to make any offer to Kosovars following 1999. Mr. Ahtisaari's plan for Kosovo suggest a new country to be born and most likely UN will vote a resolution in March or April of this year that will allow Kosovo parliament declare independence which will be followed immediately by its recognition by the USA and EU states. I believe we will be witnessing this happen and Serbia has no power any longer to make any difference. I believe the best would be for the Serbian politicians to simply acknowledge the new situation and work together with Kosovars to join the EU which would bring peace and economic stability to the region.

as predicted, give them everything but the kitchen sink... and then label them over the top R-A-D-I-C-A-L-S.

regarding "stalling" i see nothing wrong with that. it is a perfectly legitimate device. furthermore, who says it takes place on their timetable? they want something. they want BG to sign... therefore BG sets the date and time.

BG should not step down.

russia or no russia... they still need BG to sign to make it "legal." even at this latre hour they ask us to "let it go" and "sign the paper" because they still lack the legal mecahnism and don't want to do it the "messy way."

no signature =

1) prolonged legal challenge
2) lack of recogntion from BG
3) blocked access to thrufares
4) separation of n. mitrovica
5) population exodus from s. kosovo to mitrovica
6) eternal belligerance and isolation
7) referendum from republika srpska

kosovo can survive without serbia.... but it cannot develop without it. the purpose of indep should be a better life...not worse. BG should be your closest ally... the one you need. it is magical thinking (fantasy based) to think BG will love you.

establishing the 4th unviable state in the balkans (macedonia, kosovo, bosnia, montenegro) will only lead to failure and eventual partition, merger, annexation.

we are headed to partition ---either now or later.

My my my...how the mighty have fallen! No thank you! We are fine with Ahtisaari's plan, and fully accept it and support it....as does all of the international community. It looks like Serbia is getting weak in its knees as the unvailing day approaches. But that's to be expected. Soon a second Albanian flag will fly at Merdare.

Can samargjiq explain what iternal idependence means if serbia would not be alowed to man the borders. Another joke just like the rest of them.

Dear all,
Horrifying things was happening in Kosova during the 1989-1999.

Let me make a very short catalogue.

1. Kosova was a huge serbian military camp under martial law; indeed no law at all.
2. Serbian soldiers, policemen, helped by Serbian autoctones irrupted into the homes of the Albanian families day and night, any time they choose to be most devastating to the wretched Albanian man and woman.
a. Once inside, they beat, plunder, kill, rape, castrate.
b. There have been cases in which raping is being perpetrated in plain view of the wretched husband, father, brother, in order to make the turpitude most devastating morally and physically.
c. These turpitudes are not perpetrated by unruly lawbreakers but by Serbia and serbian people itself as a state policy in order to crush the Albanian man and woman that there is no future for them to live in their ancestral homeland.

3. Education in Albanian was prohibited. Instead the Albanians has opened clandestine schools in private houses; once disclosed, the Serbian police irrupt there, beat the children, chase them out, and drag the teacher to a police station "for a talk".

4. Rilindja, the only Albanian Publishing House, has been confiscated; it has become property of Serbia under the name Panorama and given for free to Karic brothers.
5. The police closed the Albanian Institute of Albanology; beat its members, some of them maimed forever, some others taken to the police station and beaten for the second time.
7. The Albanian hospitals have been confiscated. Albanian doctors and nurses have been chased from their jobs.
9. Over 90% of the Albanian Kosovars have been chased from their jobs, compeling them to leave Kosova.
10. The judiciary system was entirely in the hands of the Serbians Kosovars and Serbian refugees from krajina and Bosna.

The catalogue of the Serbian crimes against the Albanian population is very long to mention in here.

Because of these happenings for now and for the better future to both nations we have to be independent.

Hey Blag, here we go agian with your copy and paste coments, get over man and please stop writing 'legal mechanism' its boring. Question for my friend BLAG, " Why no serb politician has the guts to meet Ahtisari and receive the package?" or is it becasue they don't have the mandate as they claim. Ahtisari is bringing the package and he will dropped on your doorstep wheter you like it or not. Come in Prishtina and lets celebrate the Independence or I should say the opposite serbia has no sovrenity over Kosova as writen on Ahtisari's legal document.

Just to add on Janina's comment, and all you commentators remember that there is no way Kosovars will allow to be ruled by Serbian boot again. Don’t forget what happened in spring 1990 where hundred of Albanian children were poisoned in the schools and also the latest crimes such as the massacres in Racak, Izbica, Obria, Krusha e madhe (Velika Krusa) etc....See what is happening in Chechnya, how people disappears with no explanation. This could happen in Kosovo. We are grateful to NATO, International Community and Kosovars will applaud Ahtisari’s proposal. We know that Kosovo status is a one way solution which is INDEPENDENCE.

if serbia won't recognize kosovo as a state then it has the right to refuse cooperation with it. kosovo economy will be crippled as the most efficient land transport route to northern europe is thru serbia. goods will be expensive and people will continue to get poorer. this will lead to further chaos.

Finally the Serbian governments also accepts the Kosovo's independence, even if it is trying to hide that news by evoking some sort of legal nonsense called "internal independence".
I hope that both parts start talking about how to cooperate

Dear Ahmet:

1. Yes, I copy and paste (because noting has changed... Still no legal mechanism from the proponents of independence). Neither will there be one... Because none exists. To make it legal you need Serbia to sign on the dotted line or the severe consequences I describe will obviously take effect. Bravado is bravado. It is not life.

2. You should actually read the proposal to see what you are being offered and the compromises that have been made (with more to follow) rather than drag down the discussion on this site with emotional and bravado based arguments. How can I argue with one who has not even read the proposal?

3. Regarding "guts." I wrote very clearly in my post. Nevertheless, I will repeat it. This man wants something from us (not the other way around). Therefore we will meet him when we say. Not when he says. Also, stalling is a perfectly legitimate mechanism inany negotiation. I highly doubt that you will "drop it" on the doorstep.

Again, I wish there were a requirement to post: a bare minimum of intellectual advancement of the issues (rather than emotonal or bravado based posting). It is tiring.

Somehow I sense your age to be 15 or 16. Am I responding to ateenager. please confirm... because if I am, I would rather not.

Your Friend, Blag

What blag fails to understand is that legal mechanisms serve to implement policy. In the case of Kosovo its the US and the EU that is determining policy and therefore the legal mechanisms will change to suit those needs.

Apparently the US has undertaken the task of convincing the Russians to not veto the new UN resolution. And as blag knows, once the new resolution is adopted then 1244 is automaticly revoked.

The new resolution does not say anything about Kosovo beeing part of Serbia and nothing about independence. What do you think will happen when Kosovo has no legal ties to Belgrade whatsoever? IT WILL DECLARE INDEPENDENCE.

Ahtisari's proposal will set Kosovo in a path that will lead to full independence within a year.

Again, you can be as belligerant as you want. You are no longer a key factor in the Ballkans.

Thats the problem with you Serbs, instead of trying to improve your lives you contantly fight these lost battles.

These are the consequences of your "srbija to tokio" policies.

It's getting "HOT" here, why don't we all wait until it's over. The propoganda about Albanians being castrated, raped, and shot is too much. Lets not over do it. Yes, some Albanians got shot by Serbs but Serbs got shot by Albanians too. We in the West as all of you, have access to internet files, documentation to do research on our own. So don't make up stories about each other you can not prove.
Your just wasting space. BLAG, your one of a few who thinks before they write. The rest are full of hot air.

Blag,

Your condescending attitude is not appreciated and quite frankly makes me wonder how old you yourself are.

Blag, you are operating on such a higher level of intellect that its almost sad to read "responces" by the such as "Jarina" who have no constructive comebacks but only claims of alleged massacres and false historical claims. The Albanians should really take a look at what the Serbs are offering, it seems like they would bennefit far greater from Serbias offer that what the Fin is offering!

What Nick fails to understand is that: Yes, legal mechanisms serve to implement policy but to date never at the cost of national sovreignty which in turn creates a precedent.

What is used to justify kosovo independence can be used to justify republika srpska independence (and many other places).

The argument that this is "unique" is countered by: "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... It's a duck."

Nick's argument conveniently uses the mechanism to achieve independence for himself.... and then says no one else is allowed to use the same mechanism. This is laughable and will have predicatble consequences.

Regardless of any US or Russain deals... the consequences have been articulated by me. Serbia need not Russia to make life difficult for the proponents of independence and it is magical thinking to pretend that it will not.

Furthermore, it is even questionable whether wyou can attain the conomic viability to even declare independence.

Serbia will always be the key factor in the Balkans because of its market size. To say it is no longer the key factor in the Balkans is wrong geographicaly, economically, and demographically. In fact, I sense it is a statement based on frustration of the realities. A free market Serbia is the trading floor for all these tiny little countries that will be created. As in the past... all roads will lead to Belgrade.

Finally, I do not advocate Serbia to Tokyo policies and never have (save that for the "milosevic debate" with some other guys in the local bar). You are like a guy who hods an umbrelala up when it stopped raining 5 years ago! Let me spellout my stance:

Should you get independence... I advocate that Serbia get exactly what you get. Partition for N. Mitrovica and self determinaton for Republika Srpska. And until I get that, I advocate making your life difficult (something within my grasp).

I don't understand the point of this alleged Serbian plan. The benefit has to be proportional to the risk involved. If this plan is really what the Serbian gov't wants, then they might as well as give up and just accept Kosovo's independence. This plan is not worth arguing with the whole world and thereby delaying EU membership. If, on the other hand, Serbia really wants to keep Kosovo as part of Serbia, and more importantly protect the minority Serb population, then that is worth delaying EU membership and arguing with the rest of the world. But Serbia needs to put forward plans that are not merely symbolic because symbolic victories are worth delaying EU membership.

To Branko Covic:

Does it mean that Serbia will choose to be isolated country in a meadle of Europe? If yes, then consequences will be much higher for Serbia than for Kosova...

Conditional approach belongs to a past, and only sincere cooperation and respect will give equal chances for everybody.
In independent Kosova will be place for respect and equality, but Serbs has to be obviously determined for it. If not, unfortunately they will continue to dream about the past when only they were privileged and the others were discriminated and killed. There is no place for colonialism and apartheid any more.
Albanians has choosed their way, it is up to Serbs in Kosova to do so...

By the way, internal independence is story for kids.

Somebody here hasn't read the Helsinki Final Act of 1975. Why all this trouble if the Serbs have no choice? Could it be that it would set a PRECEDENT? Crazy huh!

I'm also amazed that the old canard of 'poisoning of hundreds of school children in 1990' is repeated. Funnily enough, this is quite an old story, also 'claimed' by the albanians in Pristina in 1981, Tetovo in 1996, and more recently in Kumanovo 2002 (a WHO team found no proof).
My, if you repeat it enough, it might even come true (wake up Dorothy, wake up)!

It seems that no matter what Belgrade says it's never good enough for the Albanians. What Slobodan Samaržić seems like a good and fair solution for both sides.A good compromise imo.
But maybe it's best to ignore most of the comments here, because usually they have nothing to do with the topic at hand, just the same nonsense over and over again.

I see that blag is back after the shock he experienced last week in connection with Ahtissaris proposal?

Serbia can call their proposal what ever they want (independence, superindependence) we know what it contains: a kind of autonomy which can be and will be revoked.

This proposal is also against the Serbian constitution. Nice try but we say "too late". If you had offered us something like this in the 90s than we would have considered the offer, but not now.

My Serbian neighbours do not listen to Serbs living abroad since they have everything that you do not have; Instead of encouraging you to look forward they are telling you to take one step forward and ten backwards.

Who says that Belgrade ever going to rule Kosovo again. Never heard of a compromise, even if Kosovo doesn't become independ it's people will have their own goverment without interferene from Belgrado.

Good thing that you bring up
Chechnya, no-one, not the U.S. or Europe is saying anythhing about it. Why can't people who doesn't have a state of their own get an independ state, while others are allowed a second state. There are Albanians in the U.S. and elswewhere also, do they want another state.

And what's the use to bring up the milk poisoning accident.
You really think that was a delibarte attemp to poison innocent children? Such accident happened or can happen elsewhere also.
It really has nothing to do with the present situation. Stop pointing fingers.

" Don’t forget what happened in spring 1990 where hundred of Albanian children were poisoned in the schools and also the latest crimes such as the massacres in Racak, Izbica, Obria, Krusha e madhe (Velika Krusa) etc....See what is happening in Chechnya, how people disappears with no explanation. This could happen in Kosovo. We are grateful to NATO, International Community and Kosovars will applaud Ahtisari’s proposal. We know that Kosovo status is a one way solution which is INDEPENDENCE."

No border control, no meddling in Kosovo's internal affairs, interest for Sebian minority, of course and so on. Let that some call it "internal independence (with international recognition, to make happy the other side too)" and the others call it "conditioned/supervised ecc. independence". It seems we're approaching the solution. Substance matters, stick any label you want on it

Nothing has change just because plan Ahtisaari deceiedes to bring the proposal that had been gathering dust since 1995 created for BiH - so much for Kosovo & Metohija being uniqie. Start asking why it has taken so long and ask who actually has been delaying or allowing the date to slip. Then ask how long you can wait for any Serbian leader in authority to sign away 15% of its territory. Keep on waiting - the answer will always be NO.

Bill Myers - maybe you can rollover an accept but guess what there is no acceptance and no new resolution will be accepeted on those terms so just hold your horses.

Dear Blag,
this issue of the legality of the independence, has no sense when we talk about invaded and abused territories.
When occupied Kosovo in 1912-13, Serbia didnt care so much about "international law" or "right of sovereignity". Serbia didnt ask the lokal population (which by the way, had sent its representatives to the Independence proclamation of Albania, november 28, 1912).
On the other hand, we cant expect an invader country or regime to voluntary accept the releasing of an invaded territory. It would be the same as if the international community woud ask nazi germany if Poland should be independent or part of Germany.
So I am sorry man, but the universal right of autodetermination is the mechanism working here. And the majority of the population of this unit called Kosovo, which once used to be a constituitive part of Yugoslavia, asks for partition from this structure, as 2 millions of slovenians and macedonians did. As 600 thousands of montenegrins did. You cannot hide by saying that Kosovo wasnt a republic, because everybody knows that the hierarchy of the rights on the former country of the southern slavs, was decided by antinonslavs discriminative standards and not by fairness.
If you will ask me if serbs from Northern Kosovo have their right to ask for breaking away, my answer is yes. And given the same are asking albanians from southern Serbia, this issue might be solved peacefully between Prishtina and Belgrade, after the independence of Kosovo. I think this issue should be dramatized so much, given it is just a small technical problem which solution is a fair process of border demarcation between two sovereign countries. Kosovo might give Serbia Leposavic, Zvecan and Zubin Potok, where serbs are majority, receiving in exchange Presevo and Bujanovac. As for Mitrovica and Medvedja, here depends if both countries want to keep a small minority of each other nations, or they just want to do an exhange of populations. But in my opinion, people are more important than land. And as for the serb inhabitated areas in Bosnia, I think the everlasting inclusion of this territory on Bosnia and Hercegovina, is the punishment serbs have to pay for the bigest manslaughter in Europe after WWII they did there. I dont care if they invent names of entities like Serbska Republic or even Platon's Republic. They should have an example of what is not being the mighty rulers. It would help their conscience.
Cheers.

Nick wrote:
"Thats the problem with you Serbs, instead of trying to improve your lives you contantly fight these lost battles."
Let's not insult each other Nick. You're pretty intelligent. There hasn't been any mass protests, or movement of troops..Really.

I'm having a tough time differentiating some of the posters here, and the reality on the ground.

What we have here, is a total lack of perspective..
Step back and look at the big picture children..

As much as some of the posters here scream for Independence, the fact of the matter is, ever since the Clinton administration has been siding with the Albanians, it's been almost a decade since anything has happened...

The fact that Serbia can't control the situation in Kosovo is a sign of it's economic weakness.
The fact that the Albanians can't get their Independence as quick as it wants (and on her own terms), speaks volumes of a province that can't even act as a modern society..

At the end of the day, unless both sides have true understanding towards one another, Kosovo will stay a dismal place relative to the rest of Europe...

As far as some posters are concerned, do Blag or Sidi believe that Kosovo/a is mine or yours??
It's for the people that live there...
The next basketball star to leave that area is going to wear their perspective nationalities on their sleaves, regardless of country name...
I'd hate to see an Ireland in the Balkans, but that's what people like Sidi are asking for.

Dear Blag,
this issue of the legality of the independence, has no sense when we talk about invaded and abused territories.
When occupied Kosovo in 1912-13, Serbia didnt care so much about "international law" or "right of sovereignity". Serbia didnt ask the lokal population (which by the way, had sent its representatives to the Independence proclamation of Albania, november 28, 1912).
On the other hand, we cant expect an invader country or regime to voluntary accept the releasing of an invaded territory. It would be the same as if the international community woud ask nazi germany if Poland should be independent or part of Germany.
So I am sorry man, but the universal right of autodetermination is the mechanism working here. And the majority of the population of this unit called Kosovo, which once used to be a constituitive part of Yugoslavia, asks for partition from this structure, as 2 millions of slovenians and macedonians did. As 600 thousands of montenegrins did. You cannot hide by saying that Kosovo wasnt a republic, because everybody knows that the hierarchy of the rights on the former country of the southern slavs, was decided by antinonslavs discriminative standards and not by fairness.
If you will ask me if serbs from Northern Kosovo have their right to ask for breaking away, my answer is yes. And given the same are asking albanians from southern Serbia, this issue might be solved peacefully between Prishtina and Belgrade, after the independence of Kosovo. I think this issue shouldnt be dramatized so much, given it is just a small technical problem which solution is a fair process of border demarcation between two sovereign countries. Kosovo might give Serbia Leposavic, Zvecan and Zubin Potok, where serbs are majority, receiving in exchange Presevo and Bujanovac. As for Mitrovica and Medvedja, here depends if both countries want to keep a small minority of each other nations, or they just want to do an exhange of populations. But in my opinion, people are more important than land. And as for the serb inhabitated areas in Bosnia, I think the everlasting inclusion of this territory on Bosnia and Hercegovina, is the punishment serbs have to pay for the bigest manslaughter in Europe after WWII they did there. I dont care if they invent names of entities like Serbska Republic or even Platon's Republic. They should have an example of what is not to be the mighty rulers. It would help their conscience.
Cheers.


PS. And for God's sake, stop that blackmailing rhetorics of Kosovo starving without Serbia. The shorter route to connect Kosovo with EU, passes through the Durres-Morine highway, which is under construction and will be ready next year. As for the other three unviable countries of the Balkans, I suggest you to take a look at their GDP-s per capita and to their time table to integrate within EU. Im sure you'll find out some breathetaking news.

Of course the funny thing is if "intenral independence" came from Ahtisaari, the Albanians on this site would be all "you see! you see! KOSOVA is ours! Time to order that cake cuz the fat lady has sung! Too bad Serbia! You lose! Get out of the middle ages and accept your loss." Sometimes I really want to wash my hands of this whole region.

Jarina, your posting is plagiarised from a letter to Al Gore from a Miftar Spahija sent in 1995. Plagiarising is bad enough by copying a load nonsense is even worse. "Albanian Institute of Albanology" is a bit of a giveaway here.

And speaking of fake events, Tringa, the "posioning" of Albanian children was exposed as such. A Yugoslav government comission with doctors from Croatia and Slovenia concluded that the teenagers were faking the illness for political reasons.

there was not albanian education prohibited, it was a boycott of the serbian education plans by albanian nationalists. why don´t you at least once tell the truth? I mean, thats something nobody is saying except you.
it serves no purpose responing to you if you are only spreading false information ( also known as propaganda ) ...
stop abusing the B92-site for your wrong-doing, you are not working for peace and prosperity by spreading lies.
there is not even one day over, since Mr.Ahtisaari made a PROPOSAL...and you are just acting like some cheerleaders on speed... calm down, this thing is all but done...

and to nick: nothing is lost, you would love to believe that, but there is still international law. same to massimo, don´t underestimate the serbian will to resist foreign pressure.
Albanians are always bragging to have it, Serbs have proven to have it.

"The new resolution does not say anything about Kosovo beeing part of Serbia and nothing about independence. What do you think will happen when Kosovo has no legal ties to Belgrade whatsoever? IT WILL DECLARE INDEPENDENCE."

Nick, pay attention, there is no new resolution.

I usually try to avoid copy and paste techniques...but this is something, that I was thinking of too, but I was very surprised to see it written down so openly...

the author of those lines below asks himself, why those "leaks" in regard to the proposal are seemingly aimed at the Albanians...

here we go:

"Washington has also engineered good-will gestures towards postponing war crimes cases of Albanian Ramush Haradinaj and has pressured Carla Del Ponte, behind the scenes, to lay off the current Kosovo Albanian Prime Minister Ceku who is knee deep in murders of Serbs.

The reason that Washington is going out of its way to create this media illusion in favor of Kosovo Albanians is a fear that Kosovo Albanians will cut their ties to the negotiating process and unilaterally declare independence.

If the status process is deemed illegitimate by the Muslim Albanians, that could trigger radical Jihadists in the province to wage attacks on NATO by using Iraq-style tactics that could radically strain NATO troops there and perhaps chase them out.

“KFOR is prepared for all eventualities,’ NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer told reporters after a meeting Macedonian President Branko Crvenkovski. “Let nobody in Kosovo have any illusions that they should test KFOR … That goes for the majority and the minority,” he said.

Increasingly, Kosovo Albanians view NATO chief as irrelevant and this is perhaps why NATO abandoned Mladic extradition and moved to swiftly integrate Serbia into its fold.

It is these dictates of military urgency that were perhaps leaked to the floor of the Senate from the State Department in early January assuring no debate and a unanimous passage of a Senate Resolution 36 that paves the way for arming of Serbian military, training of Serbian military personnel at West Point and integrating Serbian spy agency BIA into the network of CIA.

Although official Washington sees its embrace of Serbian military as separate issue from Kosovo it increasingly appears that they may not stay separate for very long. "

to Branko Covic,

If you think that, you should know that you are wrong, albanians, in Kosova, made it even in the time when serbs try it to destroy not only the economy, but their lives also, during the serbian occupaton, even the serb police and serbian destructiv forces, wanted so bad to come to Kosova, for plundering the albanians.
However, it is most possible, that Kosova will be not only the the most new country but the richest too, in very short time, and the serbs will come to work in Kosova for albanians as they used to

Happy with the proposal when they will make enclaves within Kosovo autonmous and Northern Mitrovicia will also be a enclave which will have ties to Belgrade i thought you guys did not agree to this and now you are. A Second albanian flag so you are going to tell me there will be 2 albanian flags flying. Probably not because i don't think albania will allow that.

According to some diplomatic anonymous resources, the United States has sent a list of things Russia wants in Caucasus over accepting Dardania's Independence. Russians are not going to block Ahtisari's resolution if the US will give up some of it's political involvement in the Caucasus. A US state department official has added that Condi Rice has had a secret meeting with the chairmen of foreign affairs of the Congress (House and Senate). US, has agreed to give concessions to Russia in Caucasus region over allowing the plan the West has for it. In addition, it says local Serbs will be happy. Many of them is expected to leave Dardania though. The USA's goal is to make sure the Albanians will be happy or otherwise, the consequences will be unpredictable. If Russia with refuse to cooperate, the US will allow Dardania to announce its independence. Its recognition will occur within hours by the US, the UK and it is said Switzerland (Neutral) and Holland, France, Denmark could be the first EU countries to recognized it.

to all the anti independance folk.... if i were a kosovar and didnt get independance, i would want all my rights as a serbian citizen passport and vote and in 50 to 100 years ethnic albanians would control parliment and serbians will speak albanian as a second language and with time would be the majority in serbian lands, why take only kosovo when you can have serbia and kosovo in the end.thats the best move. so seriously think about it beyond the technicality, do all serbs realise this, protect yourselves from the worst case senario, total albanian domination of serb lands. let it go, look at the bigger picture

Sunney,

with such an attitude you better wish you don't get independence as no country in the EU would wish to accept such a xenophobic attitude to join in the family of nations. Overcome you recalcitrance and learn that world politics have moved on since 99 - No acceptance of independence without Serbian consent - ask what both Russia & China think not just US and a divided EU see link;

http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/0/28.html?id_issue=11668368

Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Vladimir Titov said
"We've always wanted these proposals to facilitate the negotiations"

Learn that plan Ahtisaari is just the starting point for the real negotiations that will only start around begining of April. Maybe plan B-an Ki Moon is what you are going to get so if your not happy with plan A how do you feel with plan B?

As I have said before on this site, serbia overestimates its worth to russia. US is already talking to russia and russia has bigger problems than dealing with serbia and if US can help Russia then serbia will be sweapt aside. Keep dreaming about whats legal and whats not, Russians and US will always do whats in its interest and lets be fair, what interest is serbia to both russia and US? None. To US, kosovo independence will increase its standing amongst muslim world. Russia is sick of serbia pretending its some massive force in the world. Russia and US will reach an agreement and hopefully this will kick start serbia into dealing with its own problems as it no longer it will be able to blame someone else.

I apologise if i ofended anyone with my previous post, however it was only a response to some very innapropriate remarks by certain serb posters, but then i again i shouldnt have generalized.

wat:

duly noted, there is no resolution yet, but at this point its quite clear in which direction the wind is blowing.

Nick,

the fact remains that the (US dictated) wind has been blowing in the direction you speak of but it was strongest back in 99 and since then it has waned and now turned the other way. The US dictated wind was preoccupied in 02/03 and much of it's focus is now with Iraq, Iran, Syria, North Korea, Isreal/Palastine etc etc...

World politcis have chnage since 99 and the wind blows from Russia and China just as much as it does from the US. Hence why plan A-thisarri will be a draft that needs to be worked upon to ensure it passes.

to alban my friend. i appreciate your optimism. but reality is kosovo doesnt have much to offer for jobs. yes there are mines but the market is problem. competetion with other european states is very high now in terms of labor market and raw materials. what job can you offer? you tell me

What is happening now is a consequence of 99. It is impossible to solve the Kosovo issue without taking into consideration 99, most of all because it was 99 that thrusted the Kosovo issue in the international scene.

It is impossible to solve a problem without understanding and recodnizing its source.

Fortunately this will be an easy decision for "world politics", it comes down to two basic choices:

1. Independence (Peace); and 2. Uncertainty (Anarchy)

The Kosovo issue is not as difficult to solve as you like to think. The current delays are a consequence of the international community trying to be politically correct and of politicians and lawyers trying to get some credit for solving "the big mystery" when in fact its an easy and very obvious choice.

The US and Europe can not afford to preocupy themselves with Kosovo forever. Very soon the US will impose a solution and Europe will follow.

----------
TO NICK
----------

1. you should first read what prompted my response before labelling me anything.

2. you should point some of that high powered analysis at your own rhetoric.

3. you use selective examples of history and attempts to deny to serbs what you yourself request. we want self determination... just like you.

4. i don't argue about the likelihood of K independence. i only argue 4 things since I have seen here:

a) legalities
b) precedent
c) economic viability
d) serbian strategies to scuttle your independence

------------
TO MARTIN:
------------

1. your answer to me was what law "should be" (not what it is). serbia should not be allowed to rule kosovo , etc, etc, etc. these things you write about are not the law.

2. the borders of K are being negotiated not the borders of S proper (therefore presevo is not on the table) and therefore partition is very possible.

3. the road you speak of is:

a) not 1-year away but 15 years away.

b) 1000 kilometers in the wrong direction. you should be going north and east... not west. the EU isn't going to buy your goods, the memmbers of CEFTA are going to buy your goods. you produce nothing they need.

c) adds miles, time and ultimately additional cost to your goods.

d) coal is not shipped on trucks but on trains to rivers.

It seems that Serbians never learn a lesson from their bad experiences. Remember guys that Milosoviq has always interpreted all his losses as victories. It seems that many politicians in Serbia today (including some of the commentators in this forum like Blag) repeat exactly the same mistake. All news is good news!!!!

Thus comments made by blag and coviq regarding Serbian economic health, isolation of KS, demographics etc are complete non sense. I remind you guys the Serbia is not only one of the poorest countries in Europe but it also has major structural problems. Additionally, don’t underestimate political barriers Serbia has to overcome in order to become a democratic country with a free market economy. I don’t think radicals are going to develop the Serbian economy, so maybe before you talk about economic tigers you should stop voting for radicals (including Kostunica).

More important Kostunica today threatened US, EU and other NATO members to cut diplomatic relations if they recognise KS ind. I don’t think this will help either economic development in any way. In fact this will isolate even more Serbia from the developed world.

Talking about demographics, there are almost as much Albanians in the Balkans as Serbians, and if we look world wide there are probably more Albanians than Serbians altogether (numbers are easily available in any major IS). Again, I don’t really see how Serbia can isolate KS. On the other hand there is evidence that smaller countries are able to implement economic reforms much faster. There are numerous examples supporting this evidence like Ireland, Luxembourg, Finland, Switzerland, Slovenia, Croatia, Malta etc. NOW, I am not saying that KS is going to be Switzerland soon but I am pretty confident KS can be Ireland in 20 years.

And my final remark to Albanian commentators, please don’t waste your time explaining atrocities made by Serbian as it is obvious that they don’t have any sympathy toward that.

Nevertheless, I hope Serbia is going to be democratic one day as its people also deserve better life.

Blag:
Im not talking about "should be". I am talking about the illegitimacy of Serbia over Kosovo. Kosovo is an occupied territory from Serbia and every path you suggest to follow towards the solution of this problem leads to its independence. You tell me that if Kosovo accepts not to leave now, Serbia will allow the largest freedoms and rights a country can provide? You mean Kosovo will have perhaps the right of autodetermination. Because I know northern irish situation where UK recognizes the right of autodetermination of the people there. Will Serbia will allow for albanians in Kosovo more than UK provides for the irish? Will Serbia will guarantee to 35% of its population the same rights as it gave to 600 thousands of montenegrins? I guess not, because you know what it means. And Serbia shouldnt count on unlimited Rusias support. Here it is an excerpt from a Leon Trotsky article of 1912. He was a russian jew communist. So he hadnt any reason not to be proserbian, antimuslim and proimperialist.
.......................
Leon Trotsky, a war correspondent for 'Pravda' during the Balkan Wars (1912-13), was given the following account by a Serbian army officer: "The horrors actually began as soon as we crossed into Kosovo. Entire Albanian villages had been turned into pillars of fire, dwellings, possessions accumulated by fathers and grandfathers were going up in flames, the picture was repeated the whole way to Skopje. There the Serbs broke into Turkish and Albanian houses and performed the same task in every case: plundering and killing. For two days before my arrival in Skopje the inhabitants had woken up to the sight of heaps of Albanian corpses with severed heads. Among the mass of soldiers you see Serb peasants who have come from every part of Serbia on the pretext of looking for their sons and brothers. They cross the plain of Kosovo and start plundering, from the area around Vranje the population has crossed over en masse into the Albanian villages to pick up whatever may catch the eye. Peasant women carry away even the doors and windows of Albanian houses." (See Leon Trotsky, 'The Balkan Wars - 1912-1913').


I hope this piece will help you to understand that Serbia has overleaped any limit with Albanians in Kosovo, at every forme of regime serbs was organized, monarchy, republic, communist country, nationalist regime. Albanians have all the right to fear that Serbia will do the same given until now we dont see any form of gnaw, any effort for reflecting and accepting the responsabilities. All we have from you is propaganda, undermining at any cost of albanian existence and prosperity, and blackmail.
All the world know that serbs invaded Kosovo in 1912, abused the area trying to change its demographics on your favor, and at the end tried to totally exterminate all the population there. Do you think the albanians are crazy enough to give you a third chance for not doing what you have prooved you do everytime? One way or another, Kosovo will be free of Serbias juridiction. As for the Presevo valley - Northern Kosovo contest, I agree with what you said. Given the borders of Kosovo are in discussion, I think it should be discussed if on the east these borders should be right where they are or a little more in east.


PS. Interesting your idea EU integration going east. Maybe you have an idea of EU orientation looking at Romania or, why not Russia? I always thought EU for Albanians begins on Adriatic Sea or greek border.
And I assure you the highway connecting Albania to Kosovo will be ready next summer. I invite you to cross that way coming in Albania for holydays, by the way.
Peace. Martin.

The last Un Secretary General was working for America, and this one is too.

America has a lot of investments in South Korea as well as having troops to protect them from North Korea.

It would be good to at least one day get a UN Secretary General who will be working for all nations equally.

Maybe the UN secretay general himself will bring a new perspective on the way ahead given that plan A-thisarri needs to be improved on. Lets hope plan B-an Ki Moon can apprectiate the offer put forth by Serbia and we can still get win-win.

I believe Belgrade is no longer in a position to make any offer to Kosovars following 1999. Mr. Ahtisaari's plan for Kosovo suggest a new country to be born and most likely UN will vote a resolution in March or April of this year that will allow Kosovo parliament declare independence which will be followed immediately by its recognition by the USA and EU states. I believe we will be witnessing this happen and Serbia has no power any longer to make any difference. I believe the best would be for the Serbian politicians to simply acknowledge the new situation and work together with Kosovars to join the EU which would bring peace and economic stability to the region.

as predicted, give them everything but the kitchen sink... and then label them over the top R-A-D-I-C-A-L-S.

regarding "stalling" i see nothing wrong with that. it is a perfectly legitimate device. furthermore, who says it takes place on their timetable? they want something. they want BG to sign... therefore BG sets the date and time.

BG should not step down.

russia or no russia... they still need BG to sign to make it "legal." even at this latre hour they ask us to "let it go" and "sign the paper" because they still lack the legal mecahnism and don't want to do it the "messy way."

no signature =

1) prolonged legal challenge
2) lack of recogntion from BG
3) blocked access to thrufares
4) separation of n. mitrovica
5) population exodus from s. kosovo to mitrovica
6) eternal belligerance and isolation
7) referendum from republika srpska

kosovo can survive without serbia.... but it cannot develop without it. the purpose of indep should be a better life...not worse. BG should be your closest ally... the one you need. it is magical thinking (fantasy based) to think BG will love you.

establishing the 4th unviable state in the balkans (macedonia, kosovo, bosnia, montenegro) will only lead to failure and eventual partition, merger, annexation.

we are headed to partition ---either now or later.

My my my...how the mighty have fallen! No thank you! We are fine with Ahtisaari's plan, and fully accept it and support it....as does all of the international community. It looks like Serbia is getting weak in its knees as the unvailing day approaches. But that's to be expected. Soon a second Albanian flag will fly at Merdare.

Can samargjiq explain what iternal idependence means if serbia would not be alowed to man the borders. Another joke just like the rest of them.

Dear all,
Horrifying things was happening in Kosova during the 1989-1999.

Let me make a very short catalogue.

1. Kosova was a huge serbian military camp under martial law; indeed no law at all.
2. Serbian soldiers, policemen, helped by Serbian autoctones irrupted into the homes of the Albanian families day and night, any time they choose to be most devastating to the wretched Albanian man and woman.
a. Once inside, they beat, plunder, kill, rape, castrate.
b. There have been cases in which raping is being perpetrated in plain view of the wretched husband, father, brother, in order to make the turpitude most devastating morally and physically.
c. These turpitudes are not perpetrated by unruly lawbreakers but by Serbia and serbian people itself as a state policy in order to crush the Albanian man and woman that there is no future for them to live in their ancestral homeland.

3. Education in Albanian was prohibited. Instead the Albanians has opened clandestine schools in private houses; once disclosed, the Serbian police irrupt there, beat the children, chase them out, and drag the teacher to a police station "for a talk".

4. Rilindja, the only Albanian Publishing House, has been confiscated; it has become property of Serbia under the name Panorama and given for free to Karic brothers.
5. The police closed the Albanian Institute of Albanology; beat its members, some of them maimed forever, some others taken to the police station and beaten for the second time.
7. The Albanian hospitals have been confiscated. Albanian doctors and nurses have been chased from their jobs.
9. Over 90% of the Albanian Kosovars have been chased from their jobs, compeling them to leave Kosova.
10. The judiciary system was entirely in the hands of the Serbians Kosovars and Serbian refugees from krajina and Bosna.

The catalogue of the Serbian crimes against the Albanian population is very long to mention in here.

Because of these happenings for now and for the better future to both nations we have to be independent.

Hey Blag, here we go agian with your copy and paste coments, get over man and please stop writing 'legal mechanism' its boring. Question for my friend BLAG, " Why no serb politician has the guts to meet Ahtisari and receive the package?" or is it becasue they don't have the mandate as they claim. Ahtisari is bringing the package and he will dropped on your doorstep wheter you like it or not. Come in Prishtina and lets celebrate the Independence or I should say the opposite serbia has no sovrenity over Kosova as writen on Ahtisari's legal document.

Just to add on Janina's comment, and all you commentators remember that there is no way Kosovars will allow to be ruled by Serbian boot again. Don’t forget what happened in spring 1990 where hundred of Albanian children were poisoned in the schools and also the latest crimes such as the massacres in Racak, Izbica, Obria, Krusha e madhe (Velika Krusa) etc....See what is happening in Chechnya, how people disappears with no explanation. This could happen in Kosovo. We are grateful to NATO, International Community and Kosovars will applaud Ahtisari’s proposal. We know that Kosovo status is a one way solution which is INDEPENDENCE.

if serbia won't recognize kosovo as a state then it has the right to refuse cooperation with it. kosovo economy will be crippled as the most efficient land transport route to northern europe is thru serbia. goods will be expensive and people will continue to get poorer. this will lead to further chaos.

Finally the Serbian governments also accepts the Kosovo's independence, even if it is trying to hide that news by evoking some sort of legal nonsense called "internal independence".
I hope that both parts start talking about how to cooperate

Dear Ahmet:

1. Yes, I copy and paste (because noting has changed... Still no legal mechanism from the proponents of independence). Neither will there be one... Because none exists. To make it legal you need Serbia to sign on the dotted line or the severe consequences I describe will obviously take effect. Bravado is bravado. It is not life.

2. You should actually read the proposal to see what you are being offered and the compromises that have been made (with more to follow) rather than drag down the discussion on this site with emotional and bravado based arguments. How can I argue with one who has not even read the proposal?

3. Regarding "guts." I wrote very clearly in my post. Nevertheless, I will repeat it. This man wants something from us (not the other way around). Therefore we will meet him when we say. Not when he says. Also, stalling is a perfectly legitimate mechanism inany negotiation. I highly doubt that you will "drop it" on the doorstep.

Again, I wish there were a requirement to post: a bare minimum of intellectual advancement of the issues (rather than emotonal or bravado based posting). It is tiring.

Somehow I sense your age to be 15 or 16. Am I responding to ateenager. please confirm... because if I am, I would rather not.

Your Friend, Blag

What blag fails to understand is that legal mechanisms serve to implement policy. In the case of Kosovo its the US and the EU that is determining policy and therefore the legal mechanisms will change to suit those needs.

Apparently the US has undertaken the task of convincing the Russians to not veto the new UN resolution. And as blag knows, once the new resolution is adopted then 1244 is automaticly revoked.

The new resolution does not say anything about Kosovo beeing part of Serbia and nothing about independence. What do you think will happen when Kosovo has no legal ties to Belgrade whatsoever? IT WILL DECLARE INDEPENDENCE.

Ahtisari's proposal will set Kosovo in a path that will lead to full independence within a year.

Again, you can be as belligerant as you want. You are no longer a key factor in the Ballkans.

Thats the problem with you Serbs, instead of trying to improve your lives you contantly fight these lost battles.

These are the consequences of your "srbija to tokio" policies.

It's getting "HOT" here, why don't we all wait until it's over. The propoganda about Albanians being castrated, raped, and shot is too much. Lets not over do it. Yes, some Albanians got shot by Serbs but Serbs got shot by Albanians too. We in the West as all of you, have access to internet files, documentation to do research on our own. So don't make up stories about each other you can not prove.
Your just wasting space. BLAG, your one of a few who thinks before they write. The rest are full of hot air.

Blag,

Your condescending attitude is not appreciated and quite frankly makes me wonder how old you yourself are.

Blag, you are operating on such a higher level of intellect that its almost sad to read "responces" by the such as "Jarina" who have no constructive comebacks but only claims of alleged massacres and false historical claims. The Albanians should really take a look at what the Serbs are offering, it seems like they would bennefit far greater from Serbias offer that what the Fin is offering!

What Nick fails to understand is that: Yes, legal mechanisms serve to implement policy but to date never at the cost of national sovreignty which in turn creates a precedent.

What is used to justify kosovo independence can be used to justify republika srpska independence (and many other places).

The argument that this is "unique" is countered by: "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... It's a duck."

Nick's argument conveniently uses the mechanism to achieve independence for himself.... and then says no one else is allowed to use the same mechanism. This is laughable and will have predicatble consequences.

Regardless of any US or Russain deals... the consequences have been articulated by me. Serbia need not Russia to make life difficult for the proponents of independence and it is magical thinking to pretend that it will not.

Furthermore, it is even questionable whether wyou can attain the conomic viability to even declare independence.

Serbia will always be the key factor in the Balkans because of its market size. To say it is no longer the key factor in the Balkans is wrong geographicaly, economically, and demographically. In fact, I sense it is a statement based on frustration of the realities. A free market Serbia is the trading floor for all these tiny little countries that will be created. As in the past... all roads will lead to Belgrade.

Finally, I do not advocate Serbia to Tokyo policies and never have (save that for the "milosevic debate" with some other guys in the local bar). You are like a guy who hods an umbrelala up when it stopped raining 5 years ago! Let me spellout my stance:

Should you get independence... I advocate that Serbia get exactly what you get. Partition for N. Mitrovica and self determinaton for Republika Srpska. And until I get that, I advocate making your life difficult (something within my grasp).

I don't understand the point of this alleged Serbian plan. The benefit has to be proportional to the risk involved. If this plan is really what the Serbian gov't wants, then they might as well as give up and just accept Kosovo's independence. This plan is not worth arguing with the whole world and thereby delaying EU membership. If, on the other hand, Serbia really wants to keep Kosovo as part of Serbia, and more importantly protect the minority Serb population, then that is worth delaying EU membership and arguing with the rest of the world. But Serbia needs to put forward plans that are not merely symbolic because symbolic victories are worth delaying EU membership.

To Branko Covic:

Does it mean that Serbia will choose to be isolated country in a meadle of Europe? If yes, then consequences will be much higher for Serbia than for Kosova...

Conditional approach belongs to a past, and only sincere cooperation and respect will give equal chances for everybody.
In independent Kosova will be place for respect and equality, but Serbs has to be obviously determined for it. If not, unfortunately they will continue to dream about the past when only they were privileged and the others were discriminated and killed. There is no place for colonialism and apartheid any more.
Albanians has choosed their way, it is up to Serbs in Kosova to do so...

By the way, internal independence is story for kids.

Somebody here hasn't read the Helsinki Final Act of 1975. Why all this trouble if the Serbs have no choice? Could it be that it would set a PRECEDENT? Crazy huh!

I'm also amazed that the old canard of 'poisoning of hundreds of school children in 1990' is repeated. Funnily enough, this is quite an old story, also 'claimed' by the albanians in Pristina in 1981, Tetovo in 1996, and more recently in Kumanovo 2002 (a WHO team found no proof).
My, if you repeat it enough, it might even come true (wake up Dorothy, wake up)!

It seems that no matter what Belgrade says it's never good enough for the Albanians. What Slobodan Samaržić seems like a good and fair solution for both sides.A good compromise imo.
But maybe it's best to ignore most of the comments here, because usually they have nothing to do with the topic at hand, just the same nonsense over and over again.

I see that blag is back after the shock he experienced last week in connection with Ahtissaris proposal?

Serbia can call their proposal what ever they want (independence, superindependence) we know what it contains: a kind of autonomy which can be and will be revoked.

This proposal is also against the Serbian constitution. Nice try but we say "too late". If you had offered us something like this in the 90s than we would have considered the offer, but not now.

My Serbian neighbours do not listen to Serbs living abroad since they have everything that you do not have; Instead of encouraging you to look forward they are telling you to take one step forward and ten backwards.

Who says that Belgrade ever going to rule Kosovo again. Never heard of a compromise, even if Kosovo doesn't become independ it's people will have their own goverment without interferene from Belgrado.

Good thing that you bring up
Chechnya, no-one, not the U.S. or Europe is saying anythhing about it. Why can't people who doesn't have a state of their own get an independ state, while others are allowed a second state. There are Albanians in the U.S. and elswewhere also, do they want another state.

And what's the use to bring up the milk poisoning accident.
You really think that was a delibarte attemp to poison innocent children? Such accident happened or can happen elsewhere also.
It really has nothing to do with the present situation. Stop pointing fingers.

" Don’t forget what happened in spring 1990 where hundred of Albanian children were poisoned in the schools and also the latest crimes such as the massacres in Racak, Izbica, Obria, Krusha e madhe (Velika Krusa) etc....See what is happening in Chechnya, how people disappears with no explanation. This could happen in Kosovo. We are grateful to NATO, International Community and Kosovars will applaud Ahtisari’s proposal. We know that Kosovo status is a one way solution which is INDEPENDENCE."

No border control, no meddling in Kosovo's internal affairs, interest for Sebian minority, of course and so on. Let that some call it "internal independence (with international recognition, to make happy the other side too)" and the others call it "conditioned/supervised ecc. independence". It seems we're approaching the solution. Substance matters, stick any label you want on it

Nothing has change just because plan Ahtisaari deceiedes to bring the proposal that had been gathering dust since 1995 created for BiH - so much for Kosovo & Metohija being uniqie. Start asking why it has taken so long and ask who actually has been delaying or allowing the date to slip. Then ask how long you can wait for any Serbian leader in authority to sign away 15% of its territory. Keep on waiting - the answer will always be NO.

Bill Myers - maybe you can rollover an accept but guess what there is no acceptance and no new resolution will be accepeted on those terms so just hold your horses.

Dear Blag,
this issue of the legality of the independence, has no sense when we talk about invaded and abused territories.
When occupied Kosovo in 1912-13, Serbia didnt care so much about "international law" or "right of sovereignity". Serbia didnt ask the lokal population (which by the way, had sent its representatives to the Independence proclamation of Albania, november 28, 1912).
On the other hand, we cant expect an invader country or regime to voluntary accept the releasing of an invaded territory. It would be the same as if the international community woud ask nazi germany if Poland should be independent or part of Germany.
So I am sorry man, but the universal right of autodetermination is the mechanism working here. And the majority of the population of this unit called Kosovo, which once used to be a constituitive part of Yugoslavia, asks for partition from this structure, as 2 millions of slovenians and macedonians did. As 600 thousands of montenegrins did. You cannot hide by saying that Kosovo wasnt a republic, because everybody knows that the hierarchy of the rights on the former country of the southern slavs, was decided by antinonslavs discriminative standards and not by fairness.
If you will ask me if serbs from Northern Kosovo have their right to ask for breaking away, my answer is yes. And given the same are asking albanians from southern Serbia, this issue might be solved peacefully between Prishtina and Belgrade, after the independence of Kosovo. I think this issue should be dramatized so much, given it is just a small technical problem which solution is a fair process of border demarcation between two sovereign countries. Kosovo might give Serbia Leposavic, Zvecan and Zubin Potok, where serbs are majority, receiving in exchange Presevo and Bujanovac. As for Mitrovica and Medvedja, here depends if both countries want to keep a small minority of each other nations, or they just want to do an exhange of populations. But in my opinion, people are more important than land. And as for the serb inhabitated areas in Bosnia, I think the everlasting inclusion of this territory on Bosnia and Hercegovina, is the punishment serbs have to pay for the bigest manslaughter in Europe after WWII they did there. I dont care if they invent names of entities like Serbska Republic or even Platon's Republic. They should have an example of what is not being the mighty rulers. It would help their conscience.
Cheers.

Nick wrote:
"Thats the problem with you Serbs, instead of trying to improve your lives you contantly fight these lost battles."
Let's not insult each other Nick. You're pretty intelligent. There hasn't been any mass protests, or movement of troops..Really.

I'm having a tough time differentiating some of the posters here, and the reality on the ground.

What we have here, is a total lack of perspective..
Step back and look at the big picture children..

As much as some of the posters here scream for Independence, the fact of the matter is, ever since the Clinton administration has been siding with the Albanians, it's been almost a decade since anything has happened...

The fact that Serbia can't control the situation in Kosovo is a sign of it's economic weakness.
The fact that the Albanians can't get their Independence as quick as it wants (and on her own terms), speaks volumes of a province that can't even act as a modern society..

At the end of the day, unless both sides have true understanding towards one another, Kosovo will stay a dismal place relative to the rest of Europe...

As far as some posters are concerned, do Blag or Sidi believe that Kosovo/a is mine or yours??
It's for the people that live there...
The next basketball star to leave that area is going to wear their perspective nationalities on their sleaves, regardless of country name...
I'd hate to see an Ireland in the Balkans, but that's what people like Sidi are asking for.

Dear Blag,
this issue of the legality of the independence, has no sense when we talk about invaded and abused territories.
When occupied Kosovo in 1912-13, Serbia didnt care so much about "international law" or "right of sovereignity". Serbia didnt ask the lokal population (which by the way, had sent its representatives to the Independence proclamation of Albania, november 28, 1912).
On the other hand, we cant expect an invader country or regime to voluntary accept the releasing of an invaded territory. It would be the same as if the international community woud ask nazi germany if Poland should be independent or part of Germany.
So I am sorry man, but the universal right of autodetermination is the mechanism working here. And the majority of the population of this unit called Kosovo, which once used to be a constituitive part of Yugoslavia, asks for partition from this structure, as 2 millions of slovenians and macedonians did. As 600 thousands of montenegrins did. You cannot hide by saying that Kosovo wasnt a republic, because everybody knows that the hierarchy of the rights on the former country of the southern slavs, was decided by antinonslavs discriminative standards and not by fairness.
If you will ask me if serbs from Northern Kosovo have their right to ask for breaking away, my answer is yes. And given the same are asking albanians from southern Serbia, this issue might be solved peacefully between Prishtina and Belgrade, after the independence of Kosovo. I think this issue shouldnt be dramatized so much, given it is just a small technical problem which solution is a fair process of border demarcation between two sovereign countries. Kosovo might give Serbia Leposavic, Zvecan and Zubin Potok, where serbs are majority, receiving in exchange Presevo and Bujanovac. As for Mitrovica and Medvedja, here depends if both countries want to keep a small minority of each other nations, or they just want to do an exhange of populations. But in my opinion, people are more important than land. And as for the serb inhabitated areas in Bosnia, I think the everlasting inclusion of this territory on Bosnia and Hercegovina, is the punishment serbs have to pay for the bigest manslaughter in Europe after WWII they did there. I dont care if they invent names of entities like Serbska Republic or even Platon's Republic. They should have an example of what is not to be the mighty rulers. It would help their conscience.
Cheers.


PS. And for God's sake, stop that blackmailing rhetorics of Kosovo starving without Serbia. The shorter route to connect Kosovo with EU, passes through the Durres-Morine highway, which is under construction and will be ready next year. As for the other three unviable countries of the Balkans, I suggest you to take a look at their GDP-s per capita and to their time table to integrate within EU. Im sure you'll find out some breathetaking news.

Of course the funny thing is if "intenral independence" came from Ahtisaari, the Albanians on this site would be all "you see! you see! KOSOVA is ours! Time to order that cake cuz the fat lady has sung! Too bad Serbia! You lose! Get out of the middle ages and accept your loss." Sometimes I really want to wash my hands of this whole region.

Jarina, your posting is plagiarised from a letter to Al Gore from a Miftar Spahija sent in 1995. Plagiarising is bad enough by copying a load nonsense is even worse. "Albanian Institute of Albanology" is a bit of a giveaway here.

And speaking of fake events, Tringa, the "posioning" of Albanian children was exposed as such. A Yugoslav government comission with doctors from Croatia and Slovenia concluded that the teenagers were faking the illness for political reasons.

there was not albanian education prohibited, it was a boycott of the serbian education plans by albanian nationalists. why don´t you at least once tell the truth? I mean, thats something nobody is saying except you.
it serves no purpose responing to you if you are only spreading false information ( also known as propaganda ) ...
stop abusing the B92-site for your wrong-doing, you are not working for peace and prosperity by spreading lies.
there is not even one day over, since Mr.Ahtisaari made a PROPOSAL...and you are just acting like some cheerleaders on speed... calm down, this thing is all but done...

and to nick: nothing is lost, you would love to believe that, but there is still international law. same to massimo, don´t underestimate the serbian will to resist foreign pressure.
Albanians are always bragging to have it, Serbs have proven to have it.

"The new resolution does not say anything about Kosovo beeing part of Serbia and nothing about independence. What do you think will happen when Kosovo has no legal ties to Belgrade whatsoever? IT WILL DECLARE INDEPENDENCE."

Nick, pay attention, there is no new resolution.

I usually try to avoid copy and paste techniques...but this is something, that I was thinking of too, but I was very surprised to see it written down so openly...

the author of those lines below asks himself, why those "leaks" in regard to the proposal are seemingly aimed at the Albanians...

here we go:

"Washington has also engineered good-will gestures towards postponing war crimes cases of Albanian Ramush Haradinaj and has pressured Carla Del Ponte, behind the scenes, to lay off the current Kosovo Albanian Prime Minister Ceku who is knee deep in murders of Serbs.

The reason that Washington is going out of its way to create this media illusion in favor of Kosovo Albanians is a fear that Kosovo Albanians will cut their ties to the negotiating process and unilaterally declare independence.

If the status process is deemed illegitimate by the Muslim Albanians, that could trigger radical Jihadists in the province to wage attacks on NATO by using Iraq-style tactics that could radically strain NATO troops there and perhaps chase them out.

“KFOR is prepared for all eventualities,’ NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer told reporters after a meeting Macedonian President Branko Crvenkovski. “Let nobody in Kosovo have any illusions that they should test KFOR … That goes for the majority and the minority,” he said.

Increasingly, Kosovo Albanians view NATO chief as irrelevant and this is perhaps why NATO abandoned Mladic extradition and moved to swiftly integrate Serbia into its fold.

It is these dictates of military urgency that were perhaps leaked to the floor of the Senate from the State Department in early January assuring no debate and a unanimous passage of a Senate Resolution 36 that paves the way for arming of Serbian military, training of Serbian military personnel at West Point and integrating Serbian spy agency BIA into the network of CIA.

Although official Washington sees its embrace of Serbian military as separate issue from Kosovo it increasingly appears that they may not stay separate for very long. "

to Branko Covic,

If you think that, you should know that you are wrong, albanians, in Kosova, made it even in the time when serbs try it to destroy not only the economy, but their lives also, during the serbian occupaton, even the serb police and serbian destructiv forces, wanted so bad to come to Kosova, for plundering the albanians.
However, it is most possible, that Kosova will be not only the the most new country but the richest too, in very short time, and the serbs will come to work in Kosova for albanians as they used to

Happy with the proposal when they will make enclaves within Kosovo autonmous and Northern Mitrovicia will also be a enclave which will have ties to Belgrade i thought you guys did not agree to this and now you are. A Second albanian flag so you are going to tell me there will be 2 albanian flags flying. Probably not because i don't think albania will allow that.

According to some diplomatic anonymous resources, the United States has sent a list of things Russia wants in Caucasus over accepting Dardania's Independence. Russians are not going to block Ahtisari's resolution if the US will give up some of it's political involvement in the Caucasus. A US state department official has added that Condi Rice has had a secret meeting with the chairmen of foreign affairs of the Congress (House and Senate). US, has agreed to give concessions to Russia in Caucasus region over allowing the plan the West has for it. In addition, it says local Serbs will be happy. Many of them is expected to leave Dardania though. The USA's goal is to make sure the Albanians will be happy or otherwise, the consequences will be unpredictable. If Russia with refuse to cooperate, the US will allow Dardania to announce its independence. Its recognition will occur within hours by the US, the UK and it is said Switzerland (Neutral) and Holland, France, Denmark could be the first EU countries to recognized it.

to all the anti independance folk.... if i were a kosovar and didnt get independance, i would want all my rights as a serbian citizen passport and vote and in 50 to 100 years ethnic albanians would control parliment and serbians will speak albanian as a second language and with time would be the majority in serbian lands, why take only kosovo when you can have serbia and kosovo in the end.thats the best move. so seriously think about it beyond the technicality, do all serbs realise this, protect yourselves from the worst case senario, total albanian domination of serb lands. let it go, look at the bigger picture

Sunney,

with such an attitude you better wish you don't get independence as no country in the EU would wish to accept such a xenophobic attitude to join in the family of nations. Overcome you recalcitrance and learn that world politics have moved on since 99 - No acceptance of independence without Serbian consent - ask what both Russia & China think not just US and a divided EU see link;

http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/0/28.html?id_issue=11668368

Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Vladimir Titov said
"We've always wanted these proposals to facilitate the negotiations"

Learn that plan Ahtisaari is just the starting point for the real negotiations that will only start around begining of April. Maybe plan B-an Ki Moon is what you are going to get so if your not happy with plan A how do you feel with plan B?

As I have said before on this site, serbia overestimates its worth to russia. US is already talking to russia and russia has bigger problems than dealing with serbia and if US can help Russia then serbia will be sweapt aside. Keep dreaming about whats legal and whats not, Russians and US will always do whats in its interest and lets be fair, what interest is serbia to both russia and US? None. To US, kosovo independence will increase its standing amongst muslim world. Russia is sick of serbia pretending its some massive force in the world. Russia and US will reach an agreement and hopefully this will kick start serbia into dealing with its own problems as it no longer it will be able to blame someone else.

I apologise if i ofended anyone with my previous post, however it was only a response to some very innapropriate remarks by certain serb posters, but then i again i shouldnt have generalized.

wat:

duly noted, there is no resolution yet, but at this point its quite clear in which direction the wind is blowing.

Nick,

the fact remains that the (US dictated) wind has been blowing in the direction you speak of but it was strongest back in 99 and since then it has waned and now turned the other way. The US dictated wind was preoccupied in 02/03 and much of it's focus is now with Iraq, Iran, Syria, North Korea, Isreal/Palastine etc etc...

World politcis have chnage since 99 and the wind blows from Russia and China just as much as it does from the US. Hence why plan A-thisarri will be a draft that needs to be worked upon to ensure it passes.

to alban my friend. i appreciate your optimism. but reality is kosovo doesnt have much to offer for jobs. yes there are mines but the market is problem. competetion with other european states is very high now in terms of labor market and raw materials. what job can you offer? you tell me

What is happening now is a consequence of 99. It is impossible to solve the Kosovo issue without taking into consideration 99, most of all because it was 99 that thrusted the Kosovo issue in the international scene.

It is impossible to solve a problem without understanding and recodnizing its source.

Fortunately this will be an easy decision for "world politics", it comes down to two basic choices:

1. Independence (Peace); and 2. Uncertainty (Anarchy)

The Kosovo issue is not as difficult to solve as you like to think. The current delays are a consequence of the international community trying to be politically correct and of politicians and lawyers trying to get some credit for solving "the big mystery" when in fact its an easy and very obvious choice.

The US and Europe can not afford to preocupy themselves with Kosovo forever. Very soon the US will impose a solution and Europe will follow.

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TO NICK
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1. you should first read what prompted my response before labelling me anything.

2. you should point some of that high powered analysis at your own rhetoric.

3. you use selective examples of history and attempts to deny to serbs what you yourself request. we want self determination... just like you.

4. i don't argue about the likelihood of K independence. i only argue 4 things since I have seen here:

a) legalities
b) precedent
c) economic viability
d) serbian strategies to scuttle your independence

------------
TO MARTIN:
------------

1. your answer to me was what law "should be" (not what it is). serbia should not be allowed to rule kosovo , etc, etc, etc. these things you write about are not the law.

2. the borders of K are being negotiated not the borders of S proper (therefore presevo is not on the table) and therefore partition is very possible.

3. the road you speak of is:

a) not 1-year away but 15 years away.

b) 1000 kilometers in the wrong direction. you should be going north and east... not west. the EU isn't going to buy your goods, the memmbers of CEFTA are going to buy your goods. you produce nothing they need.

c) adds miles, time and ultimately additional cost to your goods.

d) coal is not shipped on trucks but on trains to rivers.

It seems that Serbians never learn a lesson from their bad experiences. Remember guys that Milosoviq has always interpreted all his losses as victories. It seems that many politicians in Serbia today (including some of the commentators in this forum like Blag) repeat exactly the same mistake. All news is good news!!!!

Thus comments made by blag and coviq regarding Serbian economic health, isolation of KS, demographics etc are complete non sense. I remind you guys the Serbia is not only one of the poorest countries in Europe but it also has major structural problems. Additionally, don’t underestimate political barriers Serbia has to overcome in order to become a democratic country with a free market economy. I don’t think radicals are going to develop the Serbian economy, so maybe before you talk about economic tigers you should stop voting for radicals (including Kostunica).

More important Kostunica today threatened US, EU and other NATO members to cut diplomatic relations if they recognise KS ind. I don’t think this will help either economic development in any way. In fact this will isolate even more Serbia from the developed world.

Talking about demographics, there are almost as much Albanians in the Balkans as Serbians, and if we look world wide there are probably more Albanians than Serbians altogether (numbers are easily available in any major IS). Again, I don’t really see how Serbia can isolate KS. On the other hand there is evidence that smaller countries are able to implement economic reforms much faster. There are numerous examples supporting this evidence like Ireland, Luxembourg, Finland, Switzerland, Slovenia, Croatia, Malta etc. NOW, I am not saying that KS is going to be Switzerland soon but I am pretty confident KS can be Ireland in 20 years.

And my final remark to Albanian commentators, please don’t waste your time explaining atrocities made by Serbian as it is obvious that they don’t have any sympathy toward that.

Nevertheless, I hope Serbia is going to be democratic one day as its people also deserve better life.

Blag:
Im not talking about "should be". I am talking about the illegitimacy of Serbia over Kosovo. Kosovo is an occupied territory from Serbia and every path you suggest to follow towards the solution of this problem leads to its independence. You tell me that if Kosovo accepts not to leave now, Serbia will allow the largest freedoms and rights a country can provide? You mean Kosovo will have perhaps the right of autodetermination. Because I know northern irish situation where UK recognizes the right of autodetermination of the people there. Will Serbia will allow for albanians in Kosovo more than UK provides for the irish? Will Serbia will guarantee to 35% of its population the same rights as it gave to 600 thousands of montenegrins? I guess not, because you know what it means. And Serbia shouldnt count on unlimited Rusias support. Here it is an excerpt from a Leon Trotsky article of 1912. He was a russian jew communist. So he hadnt any reason not to be proserbian, antimuslim and proimperialist.
.......................
Leon Trotsky, a war correspondent for 'Pravda' during the Balkan Wars (1912-13), was given the following account by a Serbian army officer: "The horrors actually began as soon as we crossed into Kosovo. Entire Albanian villages had been turned into pillars of fire, dwellings, possessions accumulated by fathers and grandfathers were going up in flames, the picture was repeated the whole way to Skopje. There the Serbs broke into Turkish and Albanian houses and performed the same task in every case: plundering and killing. For two days before my arrival in Skopje the inhabitants had woken up to the sight of heaps of Albanian corpses with severed heads. Among the mass of soldiers you see Serb peasants who have come from every part of Serbia on the pretext of looking for their sons and brothers. They cross the plain of Kosovo and start plundering, from the area around Vranje the population has crossed over en masse into the Albanian villages to pick up whatever may catch the eye. Peasant women carry away even the doors and windows of Albanian houses." (See Leon Trotsky, 'The Balkan Wars - 1912-1913').


I hope this piece will help you to understand that Serbia has overleaped any limit with Albanians in Kosovo, at every forme of regime serbs was organized, monarchy, republic, communist country, nationalist regime. Albanians have all the right to fear that Serbia will do the same given until now we dont see any form of gnaw, any effort for reflecting and accepting the responsabilities. All we have from you is propaganda, undermining at any cost of albanian existence and prosperity, and blackmail.
All the world know that serbs invaded Kosovo in 1912, abused the area trying to change its demographics on your favor, and at the end tried to totally exterminate all the population there. Do you think the albanians are crazy enough to give you a third chance for not doing what you have prooved you do everytime? One way or another, Kosovo will be free of Serbias juridiction. As for the Presevo valley - Northern Kosovo contest, I agree with what you said. Given the borders of Kosovo are in discussion, I think it should be discussed if on the east these borders should be right where they are or a little more in east.


PS. Interesting your idea EU integration going east. Maybe you have an idea of EU orientation looking at Romania or, why not Russia? I always thought EU for Albanians begins on Adriatic Sea or greek border.
And I assure you the highway connecting Albania to Kosovo will be ready next summer. I invite you to cross that way coming in Albania for holydays, by the way.
Peace. Martin.

The last Un Secretary General was working for America, and this one is too.

America has a lot of investments in South Korea as well as having troops to protect them from North Korea.

It would be good to at least one day get a UN Secretary General who will be working for all nations equally.