Warning of "great schism" among Orthodox Christians

Less and less people are religious. The role of the church is diminishing faster than one can say (WTF). In every religion the same is happening. Number of people who believe in aliens and other stuff is increasing daily. Money has become the new church so to speak.

... Why do they do that? Because its been told their species lack certain emotional traits as humans; such as the ability to have empathy. Liberals aka agnostics/atheists will worship these aliens one day as Gods, and God himself said he will blind the people into believing falsehoods.
(Milos, 24 September 2018 15:02)

"he will blind the people into believing falsehoods."

It had been told by whom?

And if God had decided to "... blind the people into believing falsehoods" then it's all his fault. You better tell your God to take responsibility for his shortcomings, I mean, assuming you find the place where he is hiding.

avni,

Religion waxes and wanes over time. This is evident throughout Old Testament scripture. People regularly fall into idolatry. They might not now down to golden images of animals today but money plays the same role.

I don't expect the death of religion any time soon. Because all else is vanity, people will return to worship the one true God after they get sick of themselves.

Religious leaders who are hardcore about their identity tend to drift away from God and exalt their own group rather than God himself. Some think that they only need inward feelings of piety. But faith without works is dead. We need the life of the living and true God to flow through us.

I remember well the Schism of the Serbian Eastern Orthodox Church that started in the USA in 1963 by Serbian idiots. It is so amazing the self destruction Serbian people inflict upon them selves. The refugee Serbs who immigrated to the USA who barely survived Hitler and his Nazi disciples then set damage and destruction of the Serbian Eastern Orthodox Faith in the name of some idiotic reference that the Serbian Church in Jugoslavija was Communist. Nice job what a way to go Serbian people, this Schism that the stupid Serbian started in 1963 and we all saw the results of this action from 1992 - 2018 !!!
(Dragoljub Djurkovic, 24 September 2018 14:12

Dragoljub, and yet, it was found out that the Communists did indeed infiltrate the Orthodox Church in Belgrade.

In 1978 the consul was a Macedonian bloke and in 1979 the consul was a Croatian bloke with a surname of Lombardic. Peggy it was one of our Lombard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lombards brothers of the haplogroup I http://dgmweb.net/DNA/Graphics/Haplogroup_I.png. Trying to save your soul from deceit but you didn't get it O well. 1978 you must be old I guess age and wisdom don't always go together.

Churches have nothing to do with GOD or the Lord Jesus Christ.
Churches are Man made Organisations,
Created by the Visdom of The Soulish man which belongs to the Evil Spirits.
Churches therefore are Evil Spirits in the Sight of GOD and will disappear in future times.


Arn.Sweden.

Here is the new gouvernance program for minimum salary and is a picture in it http://cursdeguvernare.ro/ritmul-cresterii-salariului-minim-brut-incetineste-cate-150-de-lei-anual-pana-2022.html

Right now minimum salary is 1900 lei meaning net 1162 lei => 250 euro net , next year it grow at 2050 lei and will be net 1312 -> 283 euro

New grow is not taxed in 2022 minimum gross will be 2500 the 600 grow without be taxed will be in hand net 1762 => 380 euro

See all in article including a picture of evolution gross and net

each year since 2019 grow with 150 lei without tax

I remember well the Schism of the Serbian Eastern Orthodox Church that started in the USA in 1963 by Serbian idiots. It is so amazing the self destruction Serbian people inflict upon them selves. The refugee Serbs who immigrated to the USA who barely survived Hitler and his Nazi disciples then set damage and destruction of the Serbian Eastern Orthodox Faith in the name of some idiotic reference that the Serbian Church in Jugoslavija was Communist. Nice job what a way to go Serbian people, this Schism that the stupid Serbian started in 1963 and we all saw the results of this action from 1992 - 2018 !!!

Yes, it was pathetic how Serbs divided the church in the USA (ie chicago and Indiana Serbs...mainly Dalmatian Serbs). The millions of dollars they spent in courts is jawdropping, yet they would never gather that type of money today to buy politicians.

In terms of 'aliens', I was a firm believer against these UFO's; however, what I saw this passed year in the sky with my folks was truly not human. All I'll say is who were the physical angels/guardians of the planet that broke away and created the nephilims? The old testament if you read carefully mentions that the flood of Noah was the second of it type. Meaning that God 'may' have destroyed a prior civilization. The Lord also talks about mysteries not yet foretold. So in the days of Noah will it be before the coming of the son of man. In those days we had giants, that ranged from 8ft to 50ft. The mark of the beast could very well be the cloning of humans that carry different dna then Gods creation, and these alien abductions you hear about are all about mixing genetics. Why do they do that? Because its been told their species lack certain emotional traits as humans; such as the ability to have empathy. Liberals aka agnostics/atheists will worship these aliens one day as Gods, and God himself said he will blind the people into believing falsehoods.

19Continuing,
Nice job what a way to go Serbian people, this Schism that the stupid Serbian started in 1963 and we all saw the results of this action from 1992 - 2018 !!!
(Dragoljub Djurkovic, 24 September 2018 14:12)
============================
In 1978 the consul was a Macedonian bloke and in 1979 the consul was a Croatian bloke with a surname of Lombardic.
I remember vividly as it was not a pleasant experience both times.
All this problem just because we attended the Free Serbian Orthodox church and not the one approved by Belgrade while plenty of Croatians who attended churches with Pavelic picture hanging in their churches and T-Shirts with words "love me I am Croatian" never had any problems going back for holidays.
Funny that.
So yes, obviously government had plenty of influence in some churches which drove people away from them.
This was in Australia. I can't speak for US but I suspect there will be similarities. People weren't wrong. They knew and stayed away.

We are made of meat.

Our minds are implemented by a computational meat machine.

What happens after death?

The meat rots. The machine stops.

A schism just decides which hole in the ground you belong in.

End of.

Faith in the name of some idiotic reference that the Serbian Church in Jugoslavija was Communist. Nice job what a way to go Serbian people, this Schism that the stupid Serbian started in 1963 and we all saw the results of this action from 1992 - 2018 !!!
(Dragoljub Djurkovic, 24 September 2018 14:12)
========================
They were not stupid. The same happened in Australia. We had a "Free Serbian Orthodox Church" which was considered free from Belgrade influence and the other which was considered influenced by Belgrade. I can tell you that it was real not imaginary.
I attended the Free Serbian Orthodox church for most part but I did attend the other one sometimes too. In 1978 when I decided to visit Yugoslavia I was raked over the coals by the Consulate staff member who also yelled at me for attending the free church. I was summoned to the consulate and had to go before they would issue a visa to me and the choice of church as a huge obstacle so don't tell me that Belgrade church was not under government influence. I experienced it first hand myself.
It was only when Yugoslavia fell apart that the churches joined for a short time but had other problems again.
The following year which was 1979 this time, my parents wanted to go as well, trouble with the consulate again. They held our visas hostage till the evening before our flight and only because our flight agent was Greek and threatened to expose them in the Greek media they gave us our passports with visas.

Milos & Tom

The text is Isaiah 6. The previous chapter (Isa. 5) is drawn on by Jesus when he tells the parable of the tenants (see Mark 12). God planted a vineyard (created the earth and set humans in it) but they only produced wickedness. In Isaiah 6, the Lord deals with the situation by blinding the Israelites so much that they are carried off into captivity. They are already rebellious. They are already living wicked lives. The Lord blinds them so that he can punish them the way they deserve, being sent off as slaves into a foreign land. But note how the text ends, with mention of a "stump." That is a sign of hope. They will be restored. They will find new life. The sun will shine! But not while they (and we) live in rebellion...

There will be no serious schism. While the Holy Spirit guides the Orthodox Church, there will be no serious schisms. Political stupidities, but nothing serious. The biggest issue is Istanbul vs Moscow. Istanbul is nothing while Moscow is the elephant in the room. Ukraine, according to Canon Law, should be autocephalous.

Tom quotes scripture just like his bro Lennie. go figure runs in the family.

his was in Australia. I can't speak for US but I suspect there will be similarities. People weren't wrong. They knew and stayed away.
(Peggy, 25 September 2018 01:34

Peggy, virtually the same in the US. I live in the Chicago area and we have the highest concentration of Serbs living in our region outside of Belgrade, so the split was very magnified due to the high number of people affected - to the point that brothers broke ranks with each other depending on their beliefs.

To Peggy

Congratulations to all you Serbian Raskolnik's out there in the world, you all are very honorable and did the right thing back in 1963 by fracturing the Serbian Christian Eastern Orthodox communities in half ! We Serbian people must make Croatian Josip Broz Tito our next Patron Saint, he is the true savior of our Serbian culture, heritage, customs and history ! Peggy I hope and pray that you are still fairly young and also that you live a very long and healthy life and are around still in 2050 to remember my words " Srbija will not exist by 2050, well on the way to extinction, well past the point of no return " !!!

We celebrated Draza Mihailovic long before the Belgrade based church started to acknowledge him
(Peggy)
I suppose you can guess my opinion about that.
But never mind Tito or Mihailovic, why a religious group would anyhow celebrate a military person? Specially a christian group considering how jesus life is described in the bible.

"But never mind Tito or Mihailovic, why a religious group would anyhow celebrate a military person? Specially a christian group considering how jesus life is described in the bible."

I have the same question.

But never mind Tito or Mihailovic, why a religious group would anyhow celebrate a military person? Specially a christian group considering how jesus life is described in the bible.
(Tito reloaded, 26 September 2018 13:07)
==========================
Because he fought for the king and church, that's why.
Should the crusaders not be celebrated by the church? They fought for Christianity just like Draza did. Crusaders fought against Islam, Draza fought against Communism.
I really should have no need to explain this to you. Are you two years old?

Well lets be honest, this is not just the conflict in Ukraine but the Russian orthodox church has been acting more and more like the arrogant Roman Catholic church and its pope. Russian orthodox church is grabbing power and wants to be leader. Also the russian church is too much intertwined with the russian regime.

God dose not like megalomaniac "Churches" just pagan priests of Satanic inspired Babylon mystery religion. Switched when their coffers dried up and people were not buying their pagan idol icons. Then they kicked out true redeemed Christians and persecuted them to death. Now most of the churches are filled with the deceived blind death spiritually dead peoples. This is what God says about them their end. Mat 23:15
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Priests, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are. 2Co 11:13
For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ.

2Co 11:14
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

2Co 11:15
It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

To Peggy

Congratulations to all you Serbian Raskolnik's out there in the world, you all are very honorable and did the right thing back in 1963 by fracturing the Serbian Christian Eastern Orthodox communities in half
=========================
Are you trying to tell me that Communist consuls like the ones I encountered while trying to visit my country loved the Orthodox church so much that they punished me and my family for going to the evil one?
Seriously? Why do you think they cared so much which church we attended? Why do you think they wanted us to attend the Belgrade approved one? Please feel free to answer these questions before you put any more of your conclusions forward. It would really help this discussion going forward.
We didn't fracture anything. It was the sellouts in Belgrade which fractured the church. We attended the rightful Serbian Orthodox church dedicated to preserving our religion (which by the way was not even allowed in our homeland if we wanted to get promotions and better jobs).
We celebrated Draza Mihailovic long before the Belgrade based church started to acknowledge him here. It was only after the 90s that the approved church and their parishioners stopped having dances where they sang "Druze Tito mi ti se kunemo". I know this to be true. I have lived through it all so if anyone fracture our church it was people who attended the "state approved" church, not us.

Peggy, virtually the same in the US. I live in the Chicago area and we have the highest concentration of Serbs living in our region outside of Belgrade, so the split was very magnified due to the high number of people affected - to the point that brothers broke ranks with each other depending on their beliefs.
(Chi, 25 September 2018 14:10)
=========================
That's really very sad indeed.
Serbs have always been their own worse enemies. Croatians never had this problem. All of their churches had pictures of Ante Pavelic hanging in their halls. There was never any split. Yes, some Croatians weren't fans of Pavelic but that didn't split their church in half.
In Melbourne the Serbs who attended Belgrade approved church were mainly the Montenegrins and they also organized dances where songs of Partisans were heard and Kozaracko Kolo danced. Now I see why it was easy to get them to split from Serbia as well. There was always enough there to cause problems.
I have attended dances organized by a variety of groups including Croatian groups. I have seen what went on and have seen the unity Croatians have compared to us.
But to put the blame on us, who tried to keep Belgrade's influence away and stick to the church prior to Tito is unfair. I am sad that Draguljub would do that. We are the ones who have preserved the true church.

Because he fought for the king and church, that's why.
Should the crusaders not be celebrated by the church?
(Peggy)
By logic they should not be celebrated by christians. Jesus was always against force even when force was used against him. So any serious christian should not fight back. The base of christian believe is to forgive and never to use physical force.
Mihailovic left the path of jesus, as did any crusader and any christian that fights. The only good thing for them is that god forgives everything.
When a christian group/church celebrates this people, they are not good christians anymore.

When a christian group/church celebrates this people, they are not good christians anymore.
(Tito reloaded, 26 September 2018 16:01
=====================
If Christians didn't fight back the whole world would be Islamic now. Islam was spreading all over the world and would've taken over the whole world.
What is your solution to that?

I don't think you have one except that it's fine by you if Christianity was wiped out.

@Tito reloaded, you said quite a lot but you never answered the question.
Again, if Christians didn't fight how were they going to preserve Christianity and stop Islam?
Don't give me this BS how you think it's better without any religion. That's not dealing with reality.
Tell us, how would Christian Europe stop Islam from taking over if they didn't pick up arms?
Did Jesus not know what was waiting for Christians and if he did was he really telling them to either convert or die? Those were the options and no amount of daydreaming of a world without a religion would've stopped that.

And Peggy, you just ignored the Bible. By claiming to be a Christian, you claim to uphold it. But you neither uphold it nor seem to regard it.
(JS, 28 September 2018 10:25)
============================
So how would you stop Islam? Convert or die seem to be the only two options for you if you're not prepared to fight.
Just like Tito reloaded, you have only accusations but no answers.

Dragoljub, and yet, it was found out that the Communists did indeed infiltrate the Orthodox Church in Belgrade.
(Chi, 24 September 2018 15:41)

The Serbian Eastern Orthodox Religion / Church is a Divine entity within itself, no mortal has any power benevolent or malevolent to damage Divine eternal God but we are very capable as ignorant humans to inflict mortal wounds upon our selves ! So the USA Serbian Christian Eastern Orthodox Schism that began in 1963 never had any consequence regarding any damage to Divinity but on the other hand look how much damage it contributed towards the destruction of Jugoslavija and Christian Eastern Orthodoxy of the Balkans. So Croatian Sokac Tito did a good job poisoning the brains of ignorant Serbian people !!!

Tito reloaded,

"The only good thing for them is that god forgives everything."

Yes, God forgives. But only if a person is genuinely sorry for what they did and changes their ways.

"If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment... It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Hebrews 10:26-27, 31)

The question is not, "What should be done when Islam comes?" Instead, the question is: "What have we done to bring this curse upon ourselves?"
(JS, 29 September 2018 08:48)
=======================
So then conclusion is that you have no idea what to do.
Just as expected, you're full of hot air, that's all.

@ Peggy

"My mountain in the land and your wealth and all your treasures I will give away as plunder, together with your high places, because of sin throughout your country.” (Jer 17:3)

When the people are unfaithful to God, he punishes them. I suspect that Islam was a way that God punished the multitude of unfaithful people. If they had repented, then perhaps God would have relented in punishing them that way. The only other option is to flee to a foreign land. That is often the punishment that God has in mind when we live an unrepentant life:

"Through your own fault you will lose the inheritance I gave you. I will enslave you to your enemies in a land you do not know, for you have kindled my anger, and it will burn forever." (Jer 17:4)

You continually say that we have to defend Christianity in order to keep it alive. But thousands and thousands of Anabaptists refused to take up the sword against the state churches who persecuted and killed them. And the Anabaptists are still with us today. Clear proof that God preserves faithful believers.

That is a sign of hope. They will be restored. They will find new life. The sun will shine! But not while they (and we) live in rebellion...
(My two cents, 24 September 2018 19:01)

Loved your post, but have to say that it is very fortunate that our medieval rulers didn't follow that wise doctrine.
There would be no money to build all that nice churches and monasteries and finance all that preaching if they did. The same applies to Vatican.

"Because he fought for the king and church, that's why.
Should the crusaders not be celebrated by the church? They fought for Christianity just like Draza did. Crusaders fought against Islam, Draza fought against Communism.
I really should have no need to explain this to you..."

One of the fundamental teachings of Jesus is to turn the other cheek, to forgive. His teachings, from beginning to end, are about charity, righteousness, and forgiveness. There is no place for violence. To match violence with violence is to fall in the same trap as the violent person. To take up violence when Jesus died as a Lamb to the slaughter (for our sins), is to deny the path that the Son took to the cross, to turn our back on Him. If we take up the sword, we will die by the sword -- physically and spiritually. The path of the cross is the only way that leads us home to God.

" My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command." (John 15:12-14)

would've taken over the whole world.
What is your solution to that?

I don't think you have one except that it's fine by you if Christianity was wiped out.
(Peggy)
I am for a society without religion, but I understand that some people have the need to believe in this kind of things. The state/society must be totally independend from the church and it must control the religious groups to fight extremism. And it can not be that ethnical groups are defined by religion as it is in former yugoslavia for example.
Christianity during crusaders were as radical as the islam was at that time. Inquisition, crusades, still denying evolution theory,... Not to mention that colonialization was supported by christian churches.
The big step forward was the reformation that changed Europe a lot. Also that was mainly linked with the western churches the today orthodox societies are influenced by it. Maybe islam in europe would be reformed too, if a Martin Luther would have been muslim.
Europes advantage was that influence of religion was reduced and science became more important, while in islamic areas it was the other way around. But this is not thanks to the churches this is thanks to science and pushing back religion.

And Peggy, you just ignored the Bible. By claiming to be a Christian, you claim to uphold it. But you neither uphold it nor seem to regard it.

Peggy,

"So how would you stop Islam? Convert or die seem to be the only two options for you if you're not prepared to fight."

In a previous comment, I cited Jeremiah 17:5. From that text, the question naturally arises: How will we defend ourselves? Here is the response that God tells Jeremiah to share with us:

"But blessed is the one who trusts in the Lord, whose confidence is in him.
They will be like a tree planted by the water that sends out its roots by the stream. It does not fear when heat comes; its leaves are always green.
It has no worries in a year of drought and never fails to bear fruit."

When we are disobedient, God punishes us. Jeremiah 17 is very clear on this point, ending on this note:

"But if you do not obey me to keep the Sabbath day holy by not carrying any load as you come through the gates of Jerusalem on the Sabbath day, then I will kindle an unquenchable fire in the gates of Jerusalem that will consume her fortresses."

The question is not, "What should be done when Islam comes?" Instead, the question is: "What have we done to bring this curse upon ourselves?"

Peggy,

If you don't understand repentance, then you don't understand the most fundamental teaching of John the Baptist and Jesus Christ: "Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand."

The Greek word Χριστιανός (Christian) literally means "follower of Christ." And following requires obedience. Therefore, you cannot be a Christian until you learn the introductory lesson: repentance.

The Greek word Χριστιανός (Christian) literally means "follower of Christ." And following requires obedience. Therefore, you cannot be a Christian until you learn the introductory lesson: repentance.
(JS, 3 October 2018 17:49)
===============================
I asked you a straight question, why can't you give me a straight answer?
Stop dancing around the scriptures. I understand them but I want an answer to a practical situation.
Unless you wish to provide that, don't bother replying. There is no value in deflecting.

Peggy,

Throughout the Old Testament, the prophets told the people not to rely on the strong arm of man. For example: "Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who draws strength from mere flesh..." (Jeremiah 17:5)

David reinforces this message in Pslam 20 (vv.7-8): "Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we trust in the name of the Lord our God. They are brought to their knees and fall, but we rise up and stand firm."

Jesus put it this way: "...for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." (Matthew 26:52).

Churches have nothing to do with GOD or the Lord Jesus Christ.
Churches are Man made Organisations,
Created by the Visdom of The Soulish man which belongs to the Evil Spirits.
Churches therefore are Evil Spirits in the Sight of GOD and will disappear in future times.


Arn.Sweden.

... Why do they do that? Because its been told their species lack certain emotional traits as humans; such as the ability to have empathy. Liberals aka agnostics/atheists will worship these aliens one day as Gods, and God himself said he will blind the people into believing falsehoods.
(Milos, 24 September 2018 15:02)

"he will blind the people into believing falsehoods."

It had been told by whom?

And if God had decided to "... blind the people into believing falsehoods" then it's all his fault. You better tell your God to take responsibility for his shortcomings, I mean, assuming you find the place where he is hiding.

Here is the new gouvernance program for minimum salary and is a picture in it http://cursdeguvernare.ro/ritmul-cresterii-salariului-minim-brut-incetineste-cate-150-de-lei-anual-pana-2022.html

Right now minimum salary is 1900 lei meaning net 1162 lei => 250 euro net , next year it grow at 2050 lei and will be net 1312 -> 283 euro

New grow is not taxed in 2022 minimum gross will be 2500 the 600 grow without be taxed will be in hand net 1762 => 380 euro

See all in article including a picture of evolution gross and net

each year since 2019 grow with 150 lei without tax

Less and less people are religious. The role of the church is diminishing faster than one can say (WTF). In every religion the same is happening. Number of people who believe in aliens and other stuff is increasing daily. Money has become the new church so to speak.

We are made of meat.

Our minds are implemented by a computational meat machine.

What happens after death?

The meat rots. The machine stops.

A schism just decides which hole in the ground you belong in.

End of.

Dragoljub, and yet, it was found out that the Communists did indeed infiltrate the Orthodox Church in Belgrade.
(Chi, 24 September 2018 15:41)

The Serbian Eastern Orthodox Religion / Church is a Divine entity within itself, no mortal has any power benevolent or malevolent to damage Divine eternal God but we are very capable as ignorant humans to inflict mortal wounds upon our selves ! So the USA Serbian Christian Eastern Orthodox Schism that began in 1963 never had any consequence regarding any damage to Divinity but on the other hand look how much damage it contributed towards the destruction of Jugoslavija and Christian Eastern Orthodoxy of the Balkans. So Croatian Sokac Tito did a good job poisoning the brains of ignorant Serbian people !!!

To Peggy

Congratulations to all you Serbian Raskolnik's out there in the world, you all are very honorable and did the right thing back in 1963 by fracturing the Serbian Christian Eastern Orthodox communities in half ! We Serbian people must make Croatian Josip Broz Tito our next Patron Saint, he is the true savior of our Serbian culture, heritage, customs and history ! Peggy I hope and pray that you are still fairly young and also that you live a very long and healthy life and are around still in 2050 to remember my words " Srbija will not exist by 2050, well on the way to extinction, well past the point of no return " !!!

God dose not like megalomaniac "Churches" just pagan priests of Satanic inspired Babylon mystery religion. Switched when their coffers dried up and people were not buying their pagan idol icons. Then they kicked out true redeemed Christians and persecuted them to death. Now most of the churches are filled with the deceived blind death spiritually dead peoples. This is what God says about them their end. Mat 23:15
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Priests, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are. 2Co 11:13
For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ.

2Co 11:14
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

2Co 11:15
It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

Peggy, virtually the same in the US. I live in the Chicago area and we have the highest concentration of Serbs living in our region outside of Belgrade, so the split was very magnified due to the high number of people affected - to the point that brothers broke ranks with each other depending on their beliefs.
(Chi, 25 September 2018 14:10)
=========================
That's really very sad indeed.
Serbs have always been their own worse enemies. Croatians never had this problem. All of their churches had pictures of Ante Pavelic hanging in their halls. There was never any split. Yes, some Croatians weren't fans of Pavelic but that didn't split their church in half.
In Melbourne the Serbs who attended Belgrade approved church were mainly the Montenegrins and they also organized dances where songs of Partisans were heard and Kozaracko Kolo danced. Now I see why it was easy to get them to split from Serbia as well. There was always enough there to cause problems.
I have attended dances organized by a variety of groups including Croatian groups. I have seen what went on and have seen the unity Croatians have compared to us.
But to put the blame on us, who tried to keep Belgrade's influence away and stick to the church prior to Tito is unfair. I am sad that Draguljub would do that. We are the ones who have preserved the true church.

I remember well the Schism of the Serbian Eastern Orthodox Church that started in the USA in 1963 by Serbian idiots. It is so amazing the self destruction Serbian people inflict upon them selves. The refugee Serbs who immigrated to the USA who barely survived Hitler and his Nazi disciples then set damage and destruction of the Serbian Eastern Orthodox Faith in the name of some idiotic reference that the Serbian Church in Jugoslavija was Communist. Nice job what a way to go Serbian people, this Schism that the stupid Serbian started in 1963 and we all saw the results of this action from 1992 - 2018 !!!

19Continuing,
Nice job what a way to go Serbian people, this Schism that the stupid Serbian started in 1963 and we all saw the results of this action from 1992 - 2018 !!!
(Dragoljub Djurkovic, 24 September 2018 14:12)
============================
In 1978 the consul was a Macedonian bloke and in 1979 the consul was a Croatian bloke with a surname of Lombardic.
I remember vividly as it was not a pleasant experience both times.
All this problem just because we attended the Free Serbian Orthodox church and not the one approved by Belgrade while plenty of Croatians who attended churches with Pavelic picture hanging in their churches and T-Shirts with words "love me I am Croatian" never had any problems going back for holidays.
Funny that.
So yes, obviously government had plenty of influence in some churches which drove people away from them.
This was in Australia. I can't speak for US but I suspect there will be similarities. People weren't wrong. They knew and stayed away.

In 1978 the consul was a Macedonian bloke and in 1979 the consul was a Croatian bloke with a surname of Lombardic. Peggy it was one of our Lombard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lombards brothers of the haplogroup I http://dgmweb.net/DNA/Graphics/Haplogroup_I.png. Trying to save your soul from deceit but you didn't get it O well. 1978 you must be old I guess age and wisdom don't always go together.

But never mind Tito or Mihailovic, why a religious group would anyhow celebrate a military person? Specially a christian group considering how jesus life is described in the bible.
(Tito reloaded, 26 September 2018 13:07)
==========================
Because he fought for the king and church, that's why.
Should the crusaders not be celebrated by the church? They fought for Christianity just like Draza did. Crusaders fought against Islam, Draza fought against Communism.
I really should have no need to explain this to you. Are you two years old?

avni,

Religion waxes and wanes over time. This is evident throughout Old Testament scripture. People regularly fall into idolatry. They might not now down to golden images of animals today but money plays the same role.

I don't expect the death of religion any time soon. Because all else is vanity, people will return to worship the one true God after they get sick of themselves.

Religious leaders who are hardcore about their identity tend to drift away from God and exalt their own group rather than God himself. Some think that they only need inward feelings of piety. But faith without works is dead. We need the life of the living and true God to flow through us.

Yes, it was pathetic how Serbs divided the church in the USA (ie chicago and Indiana Serbs...mainly Dalmatian Serbs). The millions of dollars they spent in courts is jawdropping, yet they would never gather that type of money today to buy politicians.

In terms of 'aliens', I was a firm believer against these UFO's; however, what I saw this passed year in the sky with my folks was truly not human. All I'll say is who were the physical angels/guardians of the planet that broke away and created the nephilims? The old testament if you read carefully mentions that the flood of Noah was the second of it type. Meaning that God 'may' have destroyed a prior civilization. The Lord also talks about mysteries not yet foretold. So in the days of Noah will it be before the coming of the son of man. In those days we had giants, that ranged from 8ft to 50ft. The mark of the beast could very well be the cloning of humans that carry different dna then Gods creation, and these alien abductions you hear about are all about mixing genetics. Why do they do that? Because its been told their species lack certain emotional traits as humans; such as the ability to have empathy. Liberals aka agnostics/atheists will worship these aliens one day as Gods, and God himself said he will blind the people into believing falsehoods.

I remember well the Schism of the Serbian Eastern Orthodox Church that started in the USA in 1963 by Serbian idiots. It is so amazing the self destruction Serbian people inflict upon them selves. The refugee Serbs who immigrated to the USA who barely survived Hitler and his Nazi disciples then set damage and destruction of the Serbian Eastern Orthodox Faith in the name of some idiotic reference that the Serbian Church in Jugoslavija was Communist. Nice job what a way to go Serbian people, this Schism that the stupid Serbian started in 1963 and we all saw the results of this action from 1992 - 2018 !!!
(Dragoljub Djurkovic, 24 September 2018 14:12

Dragoljub, and yet, it was found out that the Communists did indeed infiltrate the Orthodox Church in Belgrade.

Milos & Tom

The text is Isaiah 6. The previous chapter (Isa. 5) is drawn on by Jesus when he tells the parable of the tenants (see Mark 12). God planted a vineyard (created the earth and set humans in it) but they only produced wickedness. In Isaiah 6, the Lord deals with the situation by blinding the Israelites so much that they are carried off into captivity. They are already rebellious. They are already living wicked lives. The Lord blinds them so that he can punish them the way they deserve, being sent off as slaves into a foreign land. But note how the text ends, with mention of a "stump." That is a sign of hope. They will be restored. They will find new life. The sun will shine! But not while they (and we) live in rebellion...

To Peggy

Congratulations to all you Serbian Raskolnik's out there in the world, you all are very honorable and did the right thing back in 1963 by fracturing the Serbian Christian Eastern Orthodox communities in half
=========================
Are you trying to tell me that Communist consuls like the ones I encountered while trying to visit my country loved the Orthodox church so much that they punished me and my family for going to the evil one?
Seriously? Why do you think they cared so much which church we attended? Why do you think they wanted us to attend the Belgrade approved one? Please feel free to answer these questions before you put any more of your conclusions forward. It would really help this discussion going forward.
We didn't fracture anything. It was the sellouts in Belgrade which fractured the church. We attended the rightful Serbian Orthodox church dedicated to preserving our religion (which by the way was not even allowed in our homeland if we wanted to get promotions and better jobs).
We celebrated Draza Mihailovic long before the Belgrade based church started to acknowledge him here. It was only after the 90s that the approved church and their parishioners stopped having dances where they sang "Druze Tito mi ti se kunemo". I know this to be true. I have lived through it all so if anyone fracture our church it was people who attended the "state approved" church, not us.

We celebrated Draza Mihailovic long before the Belgrade based church started to acknowledge him
(Peggy)
I suppose you can guess my opinion about that.
But never mind Tito or Mihailovic, why a religious group would anyhow celebrate a military person? Specially a christian group considering how jesus life is described in the bible.

Faith in the name of some idiotic reference that the Serbian Church in Jugoslavija was Communist. Nice job what a way to go Serbian people, this Schism that the stupid Serbian started in 1963 and we all saw the results of this action from 1992 - 2018 !!!
(Dragoljub Djurkovic, 24 September 2018 14:12)
========================
They were not stupid. The same happened in Australia. We had a "Free Serbian Orthodox Church" which was considered free from Belgrade influence and the other which was considered influenced by Belgrade. I can tell you that it was real not imaginary.
I attended the Free Serbian Orthodox church for most part but I did attend the other one sometimes too. In 1978 when I decided to visit Yugoslavia I was raked over the coals by the Consulate staff member who also yelled at me for attending the free church. I was summoned to the consulate and had to go before they would issue a visa to me and the choice of church as a huge obstacle so don't tell me that Belgrade church was not under government influence. I experienced it first hand myself.
It was only when Yugoslavia fell apart that the churches joined for a short time but had other problems again.
The following year which was 1979 this time, my parents wanted to go as well, trouble with the consulate again. They held our visas hostage till the evening before our flight and only because our flight agent was Greek and threatened to expose them in the Greek media they gave us our passports with visas.

There will be no serious schism. While the Holy Spirit guides the Orthodox Church, there will be no serious schisms. Political stupidities, but nothing serious. The biggest issue is Istanbul vs Moscow. Istanbul is nothing while Moscow is the elephant in the room. Ukraine, according to Canon Law, should be autocephalous.

"But never mind Tito or Mihailovic, why a religious group would anyhow celebrate a military person? Specially a christian group considering how jesus life is described in the bible."

I have the same question.

Because he fought for the king and church, that's why.
Should the crusaders not be celebrated by the church?
(Peggy)
By logic they should not be celebrated by christians. Jesus was always against force even when force was used against him. So any serious christian should not fight back. The base of christian believe is to forgive and never to use physical force.
Mihailovic left the path of jesus, as did any crusader and any christian that fights. The only good thing for them is that god forgives everything.
When a christian group/church celebrates this people, they are not good christians anymore.

would've taken over the whole world.
What is your solution to that?

I don't think you have one except that it's fine by you if Christianity was wiped out.
(Peggy)
I am for a society without religion, but I understand that some people have the need to believe in this kind of things. The state/society must be totally independend from the church and it must control the religious groups to fight extremism. And it can not be that ethnical groups are defined by religion as it is in former yugoslavia for example.
Christianity during crusaders were as radical as the islam was at that time. Inquisition, crusades, still denying evolution theory,... Not to mention that colonialization was supported by christian churches.
The big step forward was the reformation that changed Europe a lot. Also that was mainly linked with the western churches the today orthodox societies are influenced by it. Maybe islam in europe would be reformed too, if a Martin Luther would have been muslim.
Europes advantage was that influence of religion was reduced and science became more important, while in islamic areas it was the other way around. But this is not thanks to the churches this is thanks to science and pushing back religion.

And Peggy, you just ignored the Bible. By claiming to be a Christian, you claim to uphold it. But you neither uphold it nor seem to regard it.

Peggy,

"So how would you stop Islam? Convert or die seem to be the only two options for you if you're not prepared to fight."

In a previous comment, I cited Jeremiah 17:5. From that text, the question naturally arises: How will we defend ourselves? Here is the response that God tells Jeremiah to share with us:

"But blessed is the one who trusts in the Lord, whose confidence is in him.
They will be like a tree planted by the water that sends out its roots by the stream. It does not fear when heat comes; its leaves are always green.
It has no worries in a year of drought and never fails to bear fruit."

When we are disobedient, God punishes us. Jeremiah 17 is very clear on this point, ending on this note:

"But if you do not obey me to keep the Sabbath day holy by not carrying any load as you come through the gates of Jerusalem on the Sabbath day, then I will kindle an unquenchable fire in the gates of Jerusalem that will consume her fortresses."

The question is not, "What should be done when Islam comes?" Instead, the question is: "What have we done to bring this curse upon ourselves?"

That is a sign of hope. They will be restored. They will find new life. The sun will shine! But not while they (and we) live in rebellion...
(My two cents, 24 September 2018 19:01)

Loved your post, but have to say that it is very fortunate that our medieval rulers didn't follow that wise doctrine.
There would be no money to build all that nice churches and monasteries and finance all that preaching if they did. The same applies to Vatican.

Tom quotes scripture just like his bro Lennie. go figure runs in the family.

his was in Australia. I can't speak for US but I suspect there will be similarities. People weren't wrong. They knew and stayed away.
(Peggy, 25 September 2018 01:34

Peggy, virtually the same in the US. I live in the Chicago area and we have the highest concentration of Serbs living in our region outside of Belgrade, so the split was very magnified due to the high number of people affected - to the point that brothers broke ranks with each other depending on their beliefs.

"Because he fought for the king and church, that's why.
Should the crusaders not be celebrated by the church? They fought for Christianity just like Draza did. Crusaders fought against Islam, Draza fought against Communism.
I really should have no need to explain this to you..."

One of the fundamental teachings of Jesus is to turn the other cheek, to forgive. His teachings, from beginning to end, are about charity, righteousness, and forgiveness. There is no place for violence. To match violence with violence is to fall in the same trap as the violent person. To take up violence when Jesus died as a Lamb to the slaughter (for our sins), is to deny the path that the Son took to the cross, to turn our back on Him. If we take up the sword, we will die by the sword -- physically and spiritually. The path of the cross is the only way that leads us home to God.

" My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command." (John 15:12-14)

Well lets be honest, this is not just the conflict in Ukraine but the Russian orthodox church has been acting more and more like the arrogant Roman Catholic church and its pope. Russian orthodox church is grabbing power and wants to be leader. Also the russian church is too much intertwined with the russian regime.

Peggy,

Throughout the Old Testament, the prophets told the people not to rely on the strong arm of man. For example: "Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who draws strength from mere flesh..." (Jeremiah 17:5)

David reinforces this message in Pslam 20 (vv.7-8): "Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we trust in the name of the Lord our God. They are brought to their knees and fall, but we rise up and stand firm."

Jesus put it this way: "...for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." (Matthew 26:52).

@Tito reloaded, you said quite a lot but you never answered the question.
Again, if Christians didn't fight how were they going to preserve Christianity and stop Islam?
Don't give me this BS how you think it's better without any religion. That's not dealing with reality.
Tell us, how would Christian Europe stop Islam from taking over if they didn't pick up arms?
Did Jesus not know what was waiting for Christians and if he did was he really telling them to either convert or die? Those were the options and no amount of daydreaming of a world without a religion would've stopped that.

The question is not, "What should be done when Islam comes?" Instead, the question is: "What have we done to bring this curse upon ourselves?"
(JS, 29 September 2018 08:48)
=======================
So then conclusion is that you have no idea what to do.
Just as expected, you're full of hot air, that's all.

When a christian group/church celebrates this people, they are not good christians anymore.
(Tito reloaded, 26 September 2018 16:01
=====================
If Christians didn't fight back the whole world would be Islamic now. Islam was spreading all over the world and would've taken over the whole world.
What is your solution to that?

I don't think you have one except that it's fine by you if Christianity was wiped out.

Tito reloaded,

"The only good thing for them is that god forgives everything."

Yes, God forgives. But only if a person is genuinely sorry for what they did and changes their ways.

"If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment... It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Hebrews 10:26-27, 31)

And Peggy, you just ignored the Bible. By claiming to be a Christian, you claim to uphold it. But you neither uphold it nor seem to regard it.
(JS, 28 September 2018 10:25)
============================
So how would you stop Islam? Convert or die seem to be the only two options for you if you're not prepared to fight.
Just like Tito reloaded, you have only accusations but no answers.

Peggy,

If you don't understand repentance, then you don't understand the most fundamental teaching of John the Baptist and Jesus Christ: "Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand."

The Greek word Χριστιανός (Christian) literally means "follower of Christ." And following requires obedience. Therefore, you cannot be a Christian until you learn the introductory lesson: repentance.

The Greek word Χριστιανός (Christian) literally means "follower of Christ." And following requires obedience. Therefore, you cannot be a Christian until you learn the introductory lesson: repentance.
(JS, 3 October 2018 17:49)
===============================
I asked you a straight question, why can't you give me a straight answer?
Stop dancing around the scriptures. I understand them but I want an answer to a practical situation.
Unless you wish to provide that, don't bother replying. There is no value in deflecting.

@ Peggy

"My mountain in the land and your wealth and all your treasures I will give away as plunder, together with your high places, because of sin throughout your country.” (Jer 17:3)

When the people are unfaithful to God, he punishes them. I suspect that Islam was a way that God punished the multitude of unfaithful people. If they had repented, then perhaps God would have relented in punishing them that way. The only other option is to flee to a foreign land. That is often the punishment that God has in mind when we live an unrepentant life:

"Through your own fault you will lose the inheritance I gave you. I will enslave you to your enemies in a land you do not know, for you have kindled my anger, and it will burn forever." (Jer 17:4)

You continually say that we have to defend Christianity in order to keep it alive. But thousands and thousands of Anabaptists refused to take up the sword against the state churches who persecuted and killed them. And the Anabaptists are still with us today. Clear proof that God preserves faithful believers.