President: Croatian protest, like Germans protesting to Jews

Anti-Serbs have no shame.

What surprises me is that Leonard & Ned Taylor are nowhere to be found on this issue. Perhaps still in bed with each other. If so, add Azir ro make it a threesum.

@Dwight

The Simon Wiesenthal Center lists 500,000 Serbs murder at Jasenovac. Maby of the hench men were Ronan Catholic clergy. The Vatican new this very well. They even helped smuggle tens of thousands of Nazi & Ustasa war criminals thru the Vatican together with the U.S. Government, masterminded by Allen Dulles, the first C.I.A. director. This was known as RATLINES.

P.S. Ante Pavelic and Andrija Artukovic were just a couple of them. They were harbored at St. Jeromes Seminary uder the juristiction of Bishop GIOVANI BATISTA MONTINI, WHO LATER BECAME POPE PAUL THE VI. In 1986, Artukovic became expendible and was denatrualized as an American citizen and deported .

Yet again, Dacic and Vucic are creating problems where there was none
(Dwight, 29 January 2018 09:59)

There would be no problem is Croatia didn't protest the exhibition, which has received no other criticism from any other state. There would also be no problem if Croatia didn't go out of its way to appoint a gaggle of historical revisionists to downplay, diminish, and altogether whitewash the crimes of the NDH on levels that would rival the denialism of Turks. Finally there would be no problem if Croatia didn't engage in the type of horrid right-wing fanaticism it does every year mixing celebrating the "victory" it won in Operation Storm with blatant neo-nazi gatherings everytime Thompson took a microphone and wonders why his concerts are banned in Austria, Slovenia, and Germany.

Vucic is a megalomaniac. No one will deny that. But here, he and Dacic are exactly right in pointing out a historical fact that Croatia works overtime to downplay and deny. He wouldn't be getting the attention he is if Croatia didn't create the problem in the first place.

@ from albania

"Why don't you accept the genocide and the ethnic cleansing you commited in Bosnia and in Kosovo or even in Croatia?"

There is nothing to accept because serbs were the ones that were ethnically cleansed from those areas: croatia, bosna, kosovo. The genocide was committed on serbs and only serbs. nwo vs orthodox christianity. Look at the demographics in croatia, bosna, kosmet - all the serbs ethnically cleansed from their homeland. So stop spreading that genocidal anti serb propaganda you are pathetic. vucic on the other hand is a traitor

Why don't you accept the genocide and the ethnic cleansing you commited in Bosnia and in Kosovo or even in Croatia?
(from Albania, 29 January 2018 14:44)

Croatia, Bosnia, and Kosovo are full of Croats, Bosnians, and Albanians. Serbia is either the worst country at committing genocide, or you have no idea what "genocide" means.

From Dwight: "Yet again, Dacic and Vucic are creating problems where there was none, just so that they can look like heroes."

What's wrong Dwightie, too ashamed to confront the past of your ancestors? Just think, if your Croat brethren would just admit and apologize for their role in trying to exterminate the Serbs, Jews and Roma during WWII, as did your big brother Germany, these kinds of incidents wouldn't occur. Let us not forget the Croatian Minister of Education during WWII, Mile Budek's proclamation to kill 1/3 of Serbs on Croatian soil, exile 1/3 and covert 1/3 to Catholicism. Remember that one Dwightie? Don't worry, there are many of us here who will remind you.

Where this will lead? Is this an old balkan middle age competition of who has killed more each other or it's a new one? Anyways i hope we albanians stay out of this.

@ from Albania - lol, then why even offer your opinion on this?
Stay in the dark, dude..there was no Genocide in Bosnia nor Croatia...If the Albanians and Croatians had a right to defend themselves, then so do Srbs...unfortunately for you both, the world is catching on...as current events unfold themselves! Your days as "the only victims" are gone....

What happened at Jasenovac was horrific, no need to exaggerate. When Serb politicians lie so often about easily verifiable facts, people stop believing anything they say, which is bad for true victims
(Dwight, 29 January 2018 16:48)

So if I get you correctly, the problem isn't the Jasenovac/NDH exhibition at the UN, but that it's being promoted by people you don't like, right?

You're grasping at straws here.

I personally hate Netanyahu but he's in his full right to bring up the Holocaust whenever there's a case of denial, downplay, or whitewashing.

And since you're pretty keen on getting the number of deaths down right, let's assume your estimate is correct. That still puts all other cases of ethnic cleansing, mass murder, and state-sponsored war crimes in the region to shame. Srebrenica can't hold a candle to the NDH and any attempt by Serbia to downplay that pales in comparison to what Croatia does with its war crimes.

You miss the main point for a subjective technicality and then blame the Serbs for politicizing the event instead of the Croats who not only go out of their way to downplay the whole event, but seek to rehabilitate many NDH officials as simple patriots to their country.

I assure you there would be the same push for remembering the genocide of NDH in Serbia were it anyone in power - Vucic, Dacic, otherwise. And I assure you Croatia would still be looking for ways to complain about someone bringing up a truth they work so hard to bury.

The number of victims in Jasenovac is accepted as 80,000-120,000, with about 40,000-60,000 of those being Serbs.

What happened at Jasenovac was horrific, no need to exaggerate.
(Dwight, 29 January 2018 16:48)

Dwight should be banned for promoting Nazi propaganda on B92. The number of those identified stands at 78,000. That includes full names, what city they are from etc.

However due to the fact that Jasenovac was burnt to the ground ahead of the NDH's defeat (to destroy evidence), and the communist regimes lack of interest in uncovering the rest of the victims (for the sake of "Brotherhood and Unity), the rest of the victims were never properly identified.

One thing the communist regime did do is they created the Zemaljska Commission where they acknowledged that 700,000 people were murdered in Jasenovac. The chairman of that commission was a man named Venceslav Celigoj and the 2nd in command was Ante Stokic, two Croats.

Where they deliberately lied in their findings was that the Jasenovac victims were mostly "communists" and killed for their ideological views. They weren't. They were killed because they were Serb, Jew, Roma and a small portion because they were anti-Nazi Croats & Bosniaks.

How can you look yourself in the mirror everyday knowing your only reason for existence is to passionately lie all the time?

From Dwight: "If you are a Serb then Croatians are YOUR brethren. Croats and Serbs are almost identical. They are much closer to you than Russians, other Slavs and any other ethnic population in the world. The only real difference is religion."

I'm sure the majority of your fellow Croats would beg to differ with you Dwight. For a long time, there was a movement among the Croats that claimed they weren't Slavs at all, but Germanic. Remember that one? I don't deny that Serbs and Croats are very close from a DNA standpoint, but when fanatical religious zealots brainwash people, as was the case in WWII Croatia when the official policy was to exterminate all Serbs, DNA means nothing. The sooner you come to grips with this, the better. The truth will set you free. Don't believe those Ustasha propaganda history books handed down to you from your parents and grandparents.

From Dwight: "The number of victims in Jasenovac is accepted as 80,000-120,000, with about 40,000-60,000 of those being Serbs."

This is precisely the problem Dwight. 'Accepted' by whom? The Wiesenthal Center puts the numbers of Serbs and others killed at several hundred thousand. German officers, who kept meticulous records, puts the number even higher than that of the Wiesenthal Center. For you to say the 'accepted' number is 80,000 - 120,000 is shameful and revisionist. Isn't it time for you play some Thomson music?

The Croatians alway try and play the Victim all one has to do is to look in theirs past and uncover the Death Camps instigated by Hitler and the Croatian people.

Yet again, Dacic and Vucic are creating problems where there was none, just so that they can look like heroes.
Last week he news was full of Vucics' connections to the murderer of his SNS opponent, now it is all about Vucic the hero standing up against the Croat Nazis

What happened at Jasenovac was horrific, no need to exaggerate. When Serb politicians lie so often about easily verifiable facts, people stop believing anything they say, which is bad for true victims
(Dwight, 29 January 2018 16:48)
=========================
That's right, the facts are easily verifiable so why isn't anyone else trying to set the record straight?
Croatia has plenty of friends and none are jumping in to tell the "truth". Germany should be the first country presenting alternative numbers. I wonder why they don't present their own.

(Bosnian Genocide Survivor, 30 January 2018 09:53)

Yes, Prince Pavle did sign an agreement with Germany, but all that was asked of Yugoslavia was an unimpeded passage through it and nothing else.

When that agreement was torn up the Germans bombed Belgrade not Zagreb and invaded Yugoslavia. Under German occupation they could do whatever they wanted. It was not Milan Nedic that declared it was Jew free but the occupiers. The Germans never gave Nedic a second thought and mostly ignored him. This can be verified in German military archives.

Draza Mihlalovic personally never collaborated with the Germans, but there is plenty of evidence that the Partisans did exactly that to eliminate the Chetniks who were their competitors for power. Funny if Draza was with the Germans then why did US President Truman posthumously award Draza a medal?

You say 10,000 were killed in Srebrenica, well you might tell the world that one since they claim its 8,000, but BS is always BS.

I recall a Croat author suggested that Serbs, not Germans, had been responsible for running the Staro Sajmiste, but after the Jewish historians ripped him apart he was never heard of again. Staro Sajmiste was part of NDH and run by your bros the Croats not Serbs.

Good luck in changing all this stuff because its in all the university libraries throughout the world. Dacic did not make this up mate. Your about as Bosnian as I am French. More like an illiterate Albanian.

From Dwight: "So it looks like the numbers are accepted byeveryone except you"

Well Dwight, here's a little afternoon reading for you. Please pay close attention:

Jasenovas research institute From August 1941 to April 1945, hundreds of thousands of Serbs, Jews, and Romas, as well as anti-fascists of many nationalities, were murdered at the death camp known as Jasenovac. Estimates of the total numbers of men, women and children killed there range from 300,000 to 700,000. And yet, despite the scale of the crimes committed there, most of the world has never heard of Jasenovac.

German generals issued reports of the number of victims as the war progressed. German military commanders gave different figures for the number of Serbs, Jews, and others killed by the Ustaše inside the Independent State of Croatia. They circulated figures of 400,000 Serbs (Alexander Löhr); 350,000 Serbs (Lothar Rendulic); around 300,000 (Edmund Glaise von Horstenau); in 1943; "600-700,000 until March 1944" (Ernst Fick); 700,000 (Massenbach).

Maybe you should read it again Dwight. I'm quite sure you're still in denial.

Weird to see individuals comparing what happened in the 1990s to what happened in WWII. These Croatian Nazi puppets weren't even punished and didn't pay for their crimes. Yet, individuals in the last Balkan wars have died in prison for crimes that are a tiny fraction of the scale of the crimes committed by the Croat Nazi puppets in WWII. This is an important exhibition for all to see. I can't wait to see it.

French author/historian Edmond Paris, in his book "Genocide in Satellite Croatia" put the numbers down as 750,000 Serbs, 60,000 Jews and 26,000 Gypsies.

Check -> https://www.spirituallysmart.com/genocide_in_croatia.pdf

What Sloba and his henchmen did was similar to what Hitler and his henchmen did.
(Avni, 29 January 2018 20:57)

No, what Pavelic and his henchmen did was similar to what Hitler and his henchmen did. Only they did it worse. They had death camps for children and held contests for how many Serbs they could kill in one night. Stop being stupid.

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that Croatia was one of the few countries, and maybe the only one, that issued an official Declaration of War against the US and other Allied Countries. Since they CHOSE an alliance with the Nazis/Axis, this has to come into play in this conversation.

"President: Croatian protest, like Germans protesting to Jews"

The same can be said about you mister Vucic.Why don't you accept the genocide and the ethnic cleansing you commited in Bosnia and in Kosovo or even in Croatia?
Your behaviour as country is very provocative towards your neighbors and full of hate. Everyone is trying to forget all the crimes and tragedies that happend recently in the Balkans, instead you are the only one that are trying to bring back even the tragedies of WW2. Maybe the next season you'll come back with WW1 crimes. Why you are doing this? To earn the jews support or just to play the victim card as always? What if everyone in the balkans as response to your initiative,starts doing the same as you are doing by exposing the serbs crimes commited during this period or back in the last century? Where this will lead? Is this an old balkan middle age competition of who has killed more each other or it's a new one? Anyways i hope we albanians stay out of this.

P.s.Hey adrian don't you realise that your economy comments are really inappropriate all the time? Whats wrong with you man? Anyways you people have my compliments for the "swallow" capabilities that you have hahahaha. If this is what is needed to get the EU money or be part of it, than we Albanians CALL ourselves OFF from this process. We roll differently my friend. By the way, our life expectancy (78-80) is muxh higher than yours, and guess what? we're not even part of this fuc**ng EU

Croats were simply defending their country .

If believe they could of done a better job.
(Azir, 30 January 2018 00:13)

What country??? They didn't have a country, it was part of Jugoslavia!

Croats were defending Yugoslavia.
*** No they weren't, they were aligning with the Nazis.

Nazis occupied Croatia.
*** Croatia welcomed the Nazis into their arms.

Croatia a heroes...
If you consider genocidal maniacs heroes, then maybe.

Serbs lie and exaggerate.

Only to Albanian women (excluding anyone related to Guest), and we don't have to exaggerate.

(Azir, 30 January 2018 19:06

Every time you post something, you just make a bigger Budala out of yourself, and unfortunately the few decent Albanians in this forum. Now take your Palmolive Dishwashing some and get back in the kitchen.....

@Sieg Hail

The number of victims in Jasenovac is accepted as 80,000-120,000, with about 40,000-60,000 of those being Serbs.
What appears to have happened is that the exhibition originally used a much higher number which Croatia protested. (this is hard to verify, all the newspapers are too busy writing click-bait headlines, they don't seem to have time to find out what actually happened)

If Bosnia hosted a Srebrenica exhibition which claimed that 50,000 muslim prisoners were executed there by Serbs, or NATO had an exhibition which said that only 5 people were killed during the 1999 bombing, Serbia would protest and rightly so.

What happened at Jasenovac was horrific, no need to exaggerate. When Serb politicians lie so often about easily verifiable facts, people stop believing anything they say, which is bad for true victims

Serbs are within their rights to exhibit Jasenovac.

Croats are within their rights to send diplomatic notes.

The truth is nobody cares.

The World Powers read the headlines and think what a bunch of .......

In the end, the exhibit will be removed. No one will agree with the numbers. 18 million people will continue to visit Croatia. Serbia will continue to try and get into the EU while kissing upto Russia.

They will continue to bark at each other until Serbia has to make deals with Kosovo and Croatia to tap into the money pit called the EU.

Hey Dwight - You still haven't answered the following questions:
- How many Serbs were killed by the Ustasha during WWII?
- Were any of your family members Ustasha during WWII?
- Is your middle name Franjo?

Waiting...waiting...waiting....

...And Serbs receiving Israeli arms and support to commit a genocide on Muslims and then aligning now with the same Jews to accuse another nation of genocide is like...well...
The last time the reward for the alliance with the Kosher Nostra was that Albright and her brothers form the tribe dropped some bombs on Serbia. Let's see whats coming out of it this time?

@njegos

You told me that the The Wiesenthal Center was where you got your numbers. When I proved you wrong you start quoting a fake organization run by your mate from his mother's basement in New York.

Are you 12? lol. Get a life

Dwight, there are countless reliable sources, ie German records and book by non-Serbs that put the number of those killed at Jasenovac in the several hundreds of thousands. The sources are researchable and reliable. Even your Croat henchmen that carried out the killings bragged about numbers that dwarf your revisionist claims. Time to put down the Franjo Tudjman historical book of lies Dwight and come to grips with the ugly past of your people. And BTW, we've only been talking about the horrible death camp of Jasenovac. There were countless other Serbs butchered in their villages, homes, fields and even churches. You see, the discussion on Jasenovac only scratches the surface Dwight. Shall we continue the discussion or is time for you to run away now to another thread?

From Dwight (the Croatian revisionist): "None of those are credible. If you read the rest of the wikipedia article that you are using you would know that."

Wrong again Dwight. I don't use Wikipedia as a source. I provided you with the sources and you still dismiss them. You claim they are 60+ years old. The Jewish Research Institute figures are from 2000 just to name one. And some of the sources are older, ie German officers who were there at the time of these massacres. And yet you dispute there numbers. Were you there Dwight? You asked for sources and I provided them. Then you say the numbers are for total people killed not just Serbs. Wrong. I specified numbers of Serbs. Go back and read, but pay attention this time. And your weakest argument is that these statistics are old! That's a good one Dwight! Should we accept the watered down numbers from revisionists Croats like yourself who weren't even alive when these massacres occurred? Sorry, but I tend to think that the German officers who fought on the side of the Croats have a little more credibility that you. I've provided everything you've asked for and have provided several sources who contradict your watered down numbers. You're an internet troll who just got buried. That was too easy!!!!

@njegos

I am not sure why you want to change the subject . If you are a Serb then Croatians are YOUR brethren. Croats and Serbs are almost identical. They are much closer to you than Russians, other Slavs and any other ethnic population in the world. The only real difference is religion.
Dacic and Vucic are bad-mouthing Croatia to get on the front page of all the newspapers. Then fools like you will vote for them while many people in Serbia are so hungry that they eat food from bins.

Serbs are proving again to being dumb and funny. Don't they know in this case they're "Germans". What Sloba and his henchmen did was similar to what Hitler and his henchmen did.

Here are some sources that are pure fiction:

Vladimir Dedijer 700,000
Radomir Bulatovic 1.1 million
Milan Bulajić (1992) Belgrade Museum of Genocide Victims (1.1 mill)
Donja Gradina Memorial Site (Fake RS NGO) 700,000
ICET Jasenovac (Fake RS NGO) 800,000.
Franjo Tudjman 40,000
Society for Research of the Threefold Jasenovac Camp (Fake Croatian NGO) 2000
Croatian parliament (1992) 2,238
SFRY(1946)...500,000
SFRY(1964)...59,000
(Dwight, 31 January 2018 15:45

Dwight, my little Balkan Rommel. You can try to spew, deny, deceive, but you can never re-write history. You and your Croatian people will forever be associated with Nazi Germany, you are the Nazis of the theBalkans. There's nothing you can say or do to change that. Repent, ask you corrupt, genocide protecting, child molesting Catholic for forgiveness. How's your little ass feel from mass last week, a little sore i bet. You're the lowest of the low and the most disgusting people in Europe.

@njegos
The quote you are using is for total deaths in the war not just for Jasenovac. Did you have an orgasm and could not finish reading the paragraph on wikipedia?


You say that the 330K - 390K Serbs were killed in Jasenovac according to USHMM, yet here it is on their webpage:

"It is presently estimated that the Ustaša regime murdered between 77,000 and 99,000 people in Jasenovac between 1941 and 1945."
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005449


You say that several hundred thousand were killed in Jasenovac according to The Wiesenthal Center, yet here it is on their Jasenovac webpage:

"where close to 100,000 Serbs, Jews, Roma, and anti-fascist Croatians were murdered by the Ustasha."
http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/apps/s/content.asp?c=lsKWLbPJLnF&b=4442915&ct=14966995

It is clear that you will only see what you want to see.

@Chitown
I dont understand your point. Is it that Kolinda is a Nazi-apologist so its ok for Dacic to lie about how many Serbs were killed at Jasenovac?

Serbia will never be a better country, nor given any respect if the plan is that every time Croatia tells a lie, Serbia tells a bigger one.
Every time Croatia pardons a war criminal, Serbia pardons 2 etc.


And Vucic loves it when Croatia does crazy Nazi stuff, he wants them to do more. Every minute you spend pointlessly complaining about Croatia and frothing at the mouth about what some has-been fascist is singing, is one more minute that you are not wondering where all the money is going
(Dwight, 1 February 2018 20:28

We all love when Croatia does crazy Nazi stuff, are you kidding me?!?! People are tired of the revisionist, deceitful, and hateful posture you've taken towards the Balkans. Always trying to pretend that you are Western Europeans! Hate to break it to you pal, you're just a Serb whose ancestors changed their religion, no better, no worse. You have to come to terms with that and try to integrate into the Balkans rather than pushing the get into the West where you are not wanted - because, they don't see you any different than all of us.

If you are in UNION EUROPEAN you DEVELOP because of the EU MONEY again we took 7 billions Euro in 2016 , is about 50% of Serbia budget for a year

At the same time i think if they had put Romania in EU , if they wanted they could had put SERBIA to in special for 1999 DEMAGE or ALBANIA because Albania is very small

In 2003 Serbia had more big gdp per capita than Romania but when Romania have economical grow the money fells in gdp is not as in Africa for example at 2018 gdp grow 4% estimate by IMF our gdp grow from $10300 2017 at $11800 Serbia gdp at estimate grow of 3,5% it grow from $5500 2017 at $6000 2018 .

If in 2017 and 2018 we had and make good economical grow we can overtake even Hungary , Poland , Hungary in a few years from now


Personaly i think that Serbia will get better to and will have gdp grow rate of 4% per year from this year or from 2019 . I think in 2030 Balkan countries will not be anymore poor

Think what does mean 12 years in a row of 4% gdp grow

A FACT IS THAT SERBIA can`t compare with Romania or Bulgaria or Croatia because is WITHOUT EU MONEY . Think how much Eu money got Romania from 2007

CROATIA => TOURISM + EU MONEY SERBIA => no EU money no COAST

I know i am hated but this are the facts

Ari Gold :

“ to passionately lie everyday “

Sounds more like you!

Croats were simply defending their country .

If believe they could of done a better job.

@njegos
There are NOT countless reliable sources that put the number of those killed at Jasenovac in the several hundreds of thousands.
If you want to pick some giant number so you can moan about Croats in your chetink meetings is ok, but dont expect any normal person to believe you.
Any large number is impossible because Jasenovac killings were mostly individual/small groups, there was no gas chambers etc where 100s or 1000s could be killed for days on end.
The original large numbers were likely invented to increase the amount of damages that Germany had to pay Yugo after the war and then were later used by Serb nationalists to build support for wars in 1990s

Here are some respected numbers of total numbers (about 50% are Serbs)

USHMM 2017...77,000-99,000
Wiesenthal Centre...85,000-100,000
Dragan Cvetković, Belgrade Museum of Genocide..100,000
Vladimir Žerjavić (1992)...83,000
Belgrade Museum of Genocide Victims (80,022)
Jasenovac Memorial Site has named 83,000 victims

Here are some sources that are pure fiction:

Vladimir Dedijer 700,000
Radomir Bulatovic 1.1 million
Milan Bulajić (1992) Belgrade Museum of Genocide Victims (1.1 mill)
Donja Gradina Memorial Site (Fake RS NGO) 700,000
ICET Jasenovac (Fake RS NGO) 800,000.
Franjo Tudjman 40,000
Society for Research of the Threefold Jasenovac Camp (Fake Croatian NGO) 2000
Croatian parliament (1992) 2,238
SFRY(1946)...500,000
SFRY(1964)...59,000

@ChiTown
The only reason that you get the moral high ground over Croatia is that leaders of Croatia were quickest to lick Hitlers boots. If you were alive in WW2 you would have been right beside them, begging for a job to setup your own camp.
You may not consider your self ethnic brother to Utashe but you are ideological brother for sure.

Sorry, not continuing this , you got numbers from Jasenovac completely wrong and then after a few posts you switch to total Serb casualties from the war and also change the subject to Jews.
Best current estimates say 6 million Jews died in WW2. You are too busy name-calling to pay attention to the conversation.

My whole point is that Dacic is not helping by exxagerating the Jasenovac casualties ( Just as Croatia dont help by underestimating)
You might be ignorant but he is not. His statement and the exhibition numbers were done to provoke a reaction from Croatia so that he could look like a hero.
But his self-serving actions in front of the Serbian voters are done at the expense of Serbia's international reputation.
If the foreign minister makes such easily disprovable statements, when can he ever be believed?

Dwight - Your acknowledgement of 6 million Jews killed during the Holocaust is a move in the right direction for a revisionist like yourself. Most Croats dispute this generally accepted number. But back to the original discussion. My point on Serbs killed at Jasenovac is that there are many, many credible sources that claim the number is in the several hundreds of thousands. The best example are the German officers who you dismiss because they greatly conflict with your minimization of the victims. And many, many credible sources claim that the total number of Serbs killed in the NDH during WWII (inside and outside of Jasenovac) ranges from 700K to over 1M. Again, most Croats choose to deny this. So, it is obvious that we will never agree on the number of those killed at Jasenovac. But in your educated opinion (and I use that word loosely) how many Serbs were killed by the NDH and their supporters during WWII? Please answer.

BTW, have you started your reading assignment yet? A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

My whole point is that Dacic is not helping by exxagerating the Jasenovac casualties ( Just as Croatia dont help by underestimating)
You might be ignorant but he is not. His statement and the exhibition numbers were done to provoke a reaction from Croatia so that he could look like a hero.
But his self-serving actions in front of the Serbian voters are done at the expense of Serbia's international reputation.
If the foreign minister makes such easily disprovable statements, when can he ever be believed?
(Dwight, 1 February 2018 16:19)

Dwight, you can't call out Dacic for trying to instigate, when you have Kolinda taking picots with the Croatian Flag with a big "U' on it and she openly says she love listening to Thompson - now, I don't know anything about this person, but my understanding is that all his sings are about Ultra-Nationalism and Ustasa Pride. Now, you tell me who's instigating. You can't have it both ways dude...

@njegos

None of those are credible. If you read the rest of the wikipedia article that you are using you would know that.

Ptolemy's geocentric model seemed credible for a long time until later people proved that the Earth rotated around the Sun.
All those sources of yours are 60 years old or secondary sources that reference 60 year old sources, and many of them are for total deaths, not Jasenovac.
People did further research after 1950.

In 1931 there were 636,000 Serbs living in Croatia. In 1948 there were 543,000. This is a reduction of 100,000. Are you telling me that Croatia imported 600,000 Serbs from the rest of Yugoslavia to kill in Jasenovac, while leaving the majority of the Croatian Serbs alone?

bye bye Ptolemy

@njegos
"Let us not forget the Croatian Minister of Education during WWII, Mile Budek's proclamation to kill 1/3 of Serbs on Croatian soil, exile 1/3 and covert 1/3 to Catholicism."

Others said things like "for every killed Serb hundred Muslims will be killed".
The only difference is that this Croat Minister is dead now and the other is President of Serbia, and now trying to distort the history of an entire nation because of the crimes of a few thousand people 70 years ago, but not only that, his own nation itself was the victim of such distortion of history-attack in the very recent past, portraying the entire nation of Serbia as evil people because of the crimes of a few, and now he tries to bring the same tactic onto Croatia. What is this but the very definition of pathetic?

@njegos
"This is precisely the problem Dwight. 'Accepted' by whom? The Wiesenthal Center puts the numbers of Serbs and others killed at several hundred thousand"

Here are the numbers from the wiesenthal center: "where close to 100,000 Serbs, Jews, Roma, and anti-fascist Croatians were murdered by the Ustasha."
http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/apps/s/content.asp?c=lsKWLbPJLnF&b=4442915&ct=14966995

So it looks like the numbers are accepted byeveryone except you

"there was a movement among the Croats that claimed they weren't Slavs at al"

Croats are Slavs, it doesnt matter what any movement says. You are the one that brought it up "the truth will set you free". Why do you say DNA means nothing and then start bullshitting about Croatian anscestors?
What are you even talking about? I know Croatia fanatics wanted to kill all Serbs, why are you arguing with me?

The attempts by Croatia to minimise what happened in Jasenovac is disgusting but Serbia will win no friends by lying about what happened

Fact a lot of Croats Serbs Albanians and Bosnians died just because of chauvinistic Serbia

Croats were defending Yugoslavia.

Nazis occupied Croatia.

Croatia a heroes...

Serbs lie and exaggerate.

Hey Dwight, I'm growing tired of teaching you the history of your own people, but I see it is necessary in your case.

Jasenovac Research Institute: 300K - 700K Serbs killed by Ustasa
US Holocaust Memorial Museum: 330K - 390K Serbs killed by Ustasa
Jewish Vurtual Library: 330K - 390K Serbs killed by Ustasa
Vad Yashem: 500K Serbs killed by Ustasa
Veritas: 320K - 340K Serbs killed by Ustasa
Holocaust Education and Archive Research Project: 600K Serbs killed by Ustasa

And let's not forget the only concentration camp set up exclusively for the extermination of children, Jasterbarsko where Croats killed 1,018 children.

To further your education on the subject please read Unholy Trinity by Loftus and Aarons

Vatican's Holocaust by Avro Manhattan

Genocide in Satellite Croatia by Edmond Paris

Please note that all of these sources and authors are non-Serb. Now get busy, you have a lot of reading to do.

One more thing Dwight, a discussion on Jasenovac victims wouldn't be complete without testimony from your Nazi masters. Here are some of their figures from their officers:

"400,000 Serbs (Alexander Löhr); 350,000 Serbs (Lothar Rendulic); around 300,000 (Edmund Glaise von Horstenau) in 1943; "600–700,000 until March 1944" (Ernst Fick); and 700,000 (Massenbach)."

I know this last bit of reliable information is tough to swallow for you because these statistics come from those who fought on the Croatian side and were there during this sadistic killing spree. Your Croatian henchmen were so brutal that they even appalled their Nazi partners. And this is the regime that systematically put to death 6 million Jews. Oops, that's another generally accepted number that I'm sure you believe is exaggerated too, right? Please tell me how many Jews perished in the Holocaust. Can't wait to hear your revisionist answer on that one Dwight.

Dwight - Go back and read my latest posts. The references I provided clearly stated 'Serbs killed by Ustasa.' Did you have difficulty paying attention in school? So, by your latest comments, I guess you agree with the number of 'Serbs killed by Ustasa,' from the sources provided right? Or were they exaggerated too? Please answer. And the statistics of Serbs killed at Jasenovac from your allies, the German officers, do corroborate my numbers about Jasenovac. Why would the Germans inflate the numbers? What would be their motivation? And I didn't even include testimony from the Ustasha butchers themselves who claim the highest numbers of all! Shall we go down that road Dwight?

And you conveniently dodged my question of how many Jews were killed in the Holocaust. Please answer Dwight. Waiting...waiting...waiting...

@njegos
You are like a broken record. You are wrong, and stop changing the subject to distract.
There are NOT many credible sources that claim the number of Serbs killed at Jasenovac is in the several hundreds of thousands.
It is at least 30 years since that number has been proved wrong.

@Chitown
I dont understand your point. Is it that Kolinda is a Nazi-apologist so its ok for Dacic to lie about how many Serbs were killed at Jasenovac?

Serbia will never be a better country, nor given any respect if the plan is that every time Croatia tells a lie, Serbia tells a bigger one.
Every time Croatia pardons a war criminal, Serbia pardons 2 etc.


And Vucic loves it when Croatia does crazy Nazi stuff, he wants them to do more. Every minute you spend pointlessly complaining about Croatia and frothing at the mouth about what some has-been fascist is singing, is one more minute that you are not wondering where all the money is going

@ChiTown

So anytime you are caught lying, you call the other person a Croat and have an imaginary argument with them about something else?

From Dwight the Croatian revisionst: "There are NOT many credible sources that claim the number of Serbs killed at Jasenovac is in the several hundreds of thousands."

Here you go Dwight:

Jewish Research Institute - Barry Lituchy 300K- 700K Serbs
Encyclopedia of the Holocaust - Israel Gutman 600K (mostly Serbs)
Yad Vashem 500K Serbs
Jewish Virtual Library 3330K - 390K Serbs
Alexander Lohr German Officer WWII 400K Serbs
Lothar Rendulic German Officer 350K Serbs
Edmund Von Horstenau German Officer 300K Serbs
Ernst Fick German Officer 600K Serbs
Massenbach German Officer 700K Serbs
Italian Generals 350K Serbs

Is that enough or do you want more?

Your continual denial is precisely the reason why there will be no reconciliation between Serbs and Croats. Germany came to grips with their wrongdoing ago and have built a thriving progressive country based on human rights for a its citizens while Croatia is reviving its fascist past. You are clearly part of the problem Dwight. Tell me, where were your relatives during WWII? I can only guess based on your past comments.

we got the most much money from EU is a new statistic for 2016 it can be found in google , we gave 1 billion and half and we took 7 billions and half , Bulgaria gave half billions and took 2 billions , Croatia gave half billions and took 1 billion

I wonder why Albania is not accepted in Union European imagine such a small country as Albania how many things could do with Eu money

Our life expectancy now for male is 71 old see wikipedia is a historical performance even if is only 87 place world ranking each year we win 1 more year . Our life expectancy had grow with 10 years in last 18 years .

By the year 2020 our minimum salary will be over 500 euro , average pension over 500 euro and average salary over 1000 euro

I can`t belive that we developed


The money from EU it come more and more money we will have 100% of funds and in an analysys the 2007-2017 EU money had helpt a lot Romania really a lot 1 year of Eu money is equivalent with whole Romanian budget in 1990s

Also the gdp each year grow more 2015 4% 2016 5% 2017 over 7% and for 2018 we forecast more than 2017 .

The fact in 2016 we got 7 billions and 400 millions from Union European is someting fantastic Serbia whole gdp is 32 billions Euro and budget the money they collect 13 billions so we got 50% of Serbia budget

CONCLUSION => We swallow each year billions of Euro from Union European !

@Ari Gold
Seriously, your idea is that the communists directly after the war were the most truthful, except for the bits you disagree with, so those bits are lies. Oh and anyone who disagrees with this, including The Wiesenthal Center, US Holocaust Memorial Museum are Nazis

Let me guess....you were never asked to join the debating team.

Why are figures of Serbs ,Jews and Gypsies totaled instead of shown individualy?

Jews were the main target 🎯 and Serbs tagged along ..

I’m sure Croats also died ...
after all it was a World War!

Serb figures are intentionally exaggerated , maximized and included with Jews to make it appear bigger than it already was .
Pathetic is the word ....

What happened over 70 years ago can never be justified for Serb aggression of 18 years ago.

@ChiTown

So anytime you are caught lying, you call the other person a Croat and have an imaginary argument with them about something else?
(Dwight, 2 February 2018 09:12

Hey Dwight, let's go back to the beginning and I want your take on why the former Yugoslavia broke up - maybe cause and effect. Maybe a good place to start so you and I can better understand each other - right now it seems we're both a bit confused.

Adrian bukurest @
We swallowed each year!!! 🤮

Dwight the Greeks are the same way when asked how many ethnic Greeks do they think 💭 🤔 live in Albania 🇦🇱 They inflate 60,000 to 600,000!

If the Serb claim 700,000 it’s probably 70,000.
And out of that majority were Jews with few Serbs.
10-12 million Russians died Serb number is numericaly insignificant.

Yet again, Dacic and Vucic are creating problems where there was none, just so that they can look like heroes.
Last week he news was full of Vucics' connections to the murderer of his SNS opponent, now it is all about Vucic the hero standing up against the Croat Nazis

"President: Croatian protest, like Germans protesting to Jews"

The same can be said about you mister Vucic.Why don't you accept the genocide and the ethnic cleansing you commited in Bosnia and in Kosovo or even in Croatia?
Your behaviour as country is very provocative towards your neighbors and full of hate. Everyone is trying to forget all the crimes and tragedies that happend recently in the Balkans, instead you are the only one that are trying to bring back even the tragedies of WW2. Maybe the next season you'll come back with WW1 crimes. Why you are doing this? To earn the jews support or just to play the victim card as always? What if everyone in the balkans as response to your initiative,starts doing the same as you are doing by exposing the serbs crimes commited during this period or back in the last century? Where this will lead? Is this an old balkan middle age competition of who has killed more each other or it's a new one? Anyways i hope we albanians stay out of this.

P.s.Hey adrian don't you realise that your economy comments are really inappropriate all the time? Whats wrong with you man? Anyways you people have my compliments for the "swallow" capabilities that you have hahahaha. If this is what is needed to get the EU money or be part of it, than we Albanians CALL ourselves OFF from this process. We roll differently my friend. By the way, our life expectancy (78-80) is muxh higher than yours, and guess what? we're not even part of this fuc**ng EU

we got the most much money from EU is a new statistic for 2016 it can be found in google , we gave 1 billion and half and we took 7 billions and half , Bulgaria gave half billions and took 2 billions , Croatia gave half billions and took 1 billion

I wonder why Albania is not accepted in Union European imagine such a small country as Albania how many things could do with Eu money

Our life expectancy now for male is 71 old see wikipedia is a historical performance even if is only 87 place world ranking each year we win 1 more year . Our life expectancy had grow with 10 years in last 18 years .

By the year 2020 our minimum salary will be over 500 euro , average pension over 500 euro and average salary over 1000 euro

I can`t belive that we developed


The money from EU it come more and more money we will have 100% of funds and in an analysys the 2007-2017 EU money had helpt a lot Romania really a lot 1 year of Eu money is equivalent with whole Romanian budget in 1990s

Also the gdp each year grow more 2015 4% 2016 5% 2017 over 7% and for 2018 we forecast more than 2017 .

The fact in 2016 we got 7 billions and 400 millions from Union European is someting fantastic Serbia whole gdp is 32 billions Euro and budget the money they collect 13 billions so we got 50% of Serbia budget

CONCLUSION => We swallow each year billions of Euro from Union European !

...And Serbs receiving Israeli arms and support to commit a genocide on Muslims and then aligning now with the same Jews to accuse another nation of genocide is like...well...
The last time the reward for the alliance with the Kosher Nostra was that Albright and her brothers form the tribe dropped some bombs on Serbia. Let's see whats coming out of it this time?

Serbs are proving again to being dumb and funny. Don't they know in this case they're "Germans". What Sloba and his henchmen did was similar to what Hitler and his henchmen did.

@njegos

I am not sure why you want to change the subject . If you are a Serb then Croatians are YOUR brethren. Croats and Serbs are almost identical. They are much closer to you than Russians, other Slavs and any other ethnic population in the world. The only real difference is religion.
Dacic and Vucic are bad-mouthing Croatia to get on the front page of all the newspapers. Then fools like you will vote for them while many people in Serbia are so hungry that they eat food from bins.

@Sieg Hail

The number of victims in Jasenovac is accepted as 80,000-120,000, with about 40,000-60,000 of those being Serbs.
What appears to have happened is that the exhibition originally used a much higher number which Croatia protested. (this is hard to verify, all the newspapers are too busy writing click-bait headlines, they don't seem to have time to find out what actually happened)

If Bosnia hosted a Srebrenica exhibition which claimed that 50,000 muslim prisoners were executed there by Serbs, or NATO had an exhibition which said that only 5 people were killed during the 1999 bombing, Serbia would protest and rightly so.

What happened at Jasenovac was horrific, no need to exaggerate. When Serb politicians lie so often about easily verifiable facts, people stop believing anything they say, which is bad for true victims

@njegos
"Let us not forget the Croatian Minister of Education during WWII, Mile Budek's proclamation to kill 1/3 of Serbs on Croatian soil, exile 1/3 and covert 1/3 to Catholicism."

Others said things like "for every killed Serb hundred Muslims will be killed".
The only difference is that this Croat Minister is dead now and the other is President of Serbia, and now trying to distort the history of an entire nation because of the crimes of a few thousand people 70 years ago, but not only that, his own nation itself was the victim of such distortion of history-attack in the very recent past, portraying the entire nation of Serbia as evil people because of the crimes of a few, and now he tries to bring the same tactic onto Croatia. What is this but the very definition of pathetic?

Serbs are within their rights to exhibit Jasenovac.

Croats are within their rights to send diplomatic notes.

The truth is nobody cares.

The World Powers read the headlines and think what a bunch of .......

In the end, the exhibit will be removed. No one will agree with the numbers. 18 million people will continue to visit Croatia. Serbia will continue to try and get into the EU while kissing upto Russia.

They will continue to bark at each other until Serbia has to make deals with Kosovo and Croatia to tap into the money pit called the EU.

Croats were defending Yugoslavia.

Nazis occupied Croatia.

Croatia a heroes...

Serbs lie and exaggerate.

@njegos
"This is precisely the problem Dwight. 'Accepted' by whom? The Wiesenthal Center puts the numbers of Serbs and others killed at several hundred thousand"

Here are the numbers from the wiesenthal center: "where close to 100,000 Serbs, Jews, Roma, and anti-fascist Croatians were murdered by the Ustasha."
http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/apps/s/content.asp?c=lsKWLbPJLnF&b=4442915&ct=14966995

So it looks like the numbers are accepted byeveryone except you

"there was a movement among the Croats that claimed they weren't Slavs at al"

Croats are Slavs, it doesnt matter what any movement says. You are the one that brought it up "the truth will set you free". Why do you say DNA means nothing and then start bullshitting about Croatian anscestors?
What are you even talking about? I know Croatia fanatics wanted to kill all Serbs, why are you arguing with me?

The attempts by Croatia to minimise what happened in Jasenovac is disgusting but Serbia will win no friends by lying about what happened

Croats were simply defending their country .

If believe they could of done a better job.

Fact a lot of Croats Serbs Albanians and Bosnians died just because of chauvinistic Serbia

Why are figures of Serbs ,Jews and Gypsies totaled instead of shown individualy?

Jews were the main target 🎯 and Serbs tagged along ..

I’m sure Croats also died ...
after all it was a World War!

Serb figures are intentionally exaggerated , maximized and included with Jews to make it appear bigger than it already was .
Pathetic is the word ....

What happened over 70 years ago can never be justified for Serb aggression of 18 years ago.

Ari Gold :

“ to passionately lie everyday “

Sounds more like you!

If you are in UNION EUROPEAN you DEVELOP because of the EU MONEY again we took 7 billions Euro in 2016 , is about 50% of Serbia budget for a year

At the same time i think if they had put Romania in EU , if they wanted they could had put SERBIA to in special for 1999 DEMAGE or ALBANIA because Albania is very small

In 2003 Serbia had more big gdp per capita than Romania but when Romania have economical grow the money fells in gdp is not as in Africa for example at 2018 gdp grow 4% estimate by IMF our gdp grow from $10300 2017 at $11800 Serbia gdp at estimate grow of 3,5% it grow from $5500 2017 at $6000 2018 .

If in 2017 and 2018 we had and make good economical grow we can overtake even Hungary , Poland , Hungary in a few years from now


Personaly i think that Serbia will get better to and will have gdp grow rate of 4% per year from this year or from 2019 . I think in 2030 Balkan countries will not be anymore poor

Think what does mean 12 years in a row of 4% gdp grow

A FACT IS THAT SERBIA can`t compare with Romania or Bulgaria or Croatia because is WITHOUT EU MONEY . Think how much Eu money got Romania from 2007

CROATIA => TOURISM + EU MONEY SERBIA => no EU money no COAST

I know i am hated but this are the facts

@Ari Gold
Seriously, your idea is that the communists directly after the war were the most truthful, except for the bits you disagree with, so those bits are lies. Oh and anyone who disagrees with this, including The Wiesenthal Center, US Holocaust Memorial Museum are Nazis

Let me guess....you were never asked to join the debating team.

From Dwight: "Yet again, Dacic and Vucic are creating problems where there was none, just so that they can look like heroes."

What's wrong Dwightie, too ashamed to confront the past of your ancestors? Just think, if your Croat brethren would just admit and apologize for their role in trying to exterminate the Serbs, Jews and Roma during WWII, as did your big brother Germany, these kinds of incidents wouldn't occur. Let us not forget the Croatian Minister of Education during WWII, Mile Budek's proclamation to kill 1/3 of Serbs on Croatian soil, exile 1/3 and covert 1/3 to Catholicism. Remember that one Dwightie? Don't worry, there are many of us here who will remind you.

Why don't you accept the genocide and the ethnic cleansing you commited in Bosnia and in Kosovo or even in Croatia?
(from Albania, 29 January 2018 14:44)

Croatia, Bosnia, and Kosovo are full of Croats, Bosnians, and Albanians. Serbia is either the worst country at committing genocide, or you have no idea what "genocide" means.

Anti-Serbs have no shame.

@ from albania

"Why don't you accept the genocide and the ethnic cleansing you commited in Bosnia and in Kosovo or even in Croatia?"

There is nothing to accept because serbs were the ones that were ethnically cleansed from those areas: croatia, bosna, kosovo. The genocide was committed on serbs and only serbs. nwo vs orthodox christianity. Look at the demographics in croatia, bosna, kosmet - all the serbs ethnically cleansed from their homeland. So stop spreading that genocidal anti serb propaganda you are pathetic. vucic on the other hand is a traitor

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that Croatia was one of the few countries, and maybe the only one, that issued an official Declaration of War against the US and other Allied Countries. Since they CHOSE an alliance with the Nazis/Axis, this has to come into play in this conversation.

Yet again, Dacic and Vucic are creating problems where there was none
(Dwight, 29 January 2018 09:59)

There would be no problem is Croatia didn't protest the exhibition, which has received no other criticism from any other state. There would also be no problem if Croatia didn't go out of its way to appoint a gaggle of historical revisionists to downplay, diminish, and altogether whitewash the crimes of the NDH on levels that would rival the denialism of Turks. Finally there would be no problem if Croatia didn't engage in the type of horrid right-wing fanaticism it does every year mixing celebrating the "victory" it won in Operation Storm with blatant neo-nazi gatherings everytime Thompson took a microphone and wonders why his concerts are banned in Austria, Slovenia, and Germany.

Vucic is a megalomaniac. No one will deny that. But here, he and Dacic are exactly right in pointing out a historical fact that Croatia works overtime to downplay and deny. He wouldn't be getting the attention he is if Croatia didn't create the problem in the first place.

@Dwight

The Simon Wiesenthal Center lists 500,000 Serbs murder at Jasenovac. Maby of the hench men were Ronan Catholic clergy. The Vatican new this very well. They even helped smuggle tens of thousands of Nazi & Ustasa war criminals thru the Vatican together with the U.S. Government, masterminded by Allen Dulles, the first C.I.A. director. This was known as RATLINES.

The number of victims in Jasenovac is accepted as 80,000-120,000, with about 40,000-60,000 of those being Serbs.

What happened at Jasenovac was horrific, no need to exaggerate.
(Dwight, 29 January 2018 16:48)

Dwight should be banned for promoting Nazi propaganda on B92. The number of those identified stands at 78,000. That includes full names, what city they are from etc.

However due to the fact that Jasenovac was burnt to the ground ahead of the NDH's defeat (to destroy evidence), and the communist regimes lack of interest in uncovering the rest of the victims (for the sake of "Brotherhood and Unity), the rest of the victims were never properly identified.

One thing the communist regime did do is they created the Zemaljska Commission where they acknowledged that 700,000 people were murdered in Jasenovac. The chairman of that commission was a man named Venceslav Celigoj and the 2nd in command was Ante Stokic, two Croats.

Where they deliberately lied in their findings was that the Jasenovac victims were mostly "communists" and killed for their ideological views. They weren't. They were killed because they were Serb, Jew, Roma and a small portion because they were anti-Nazi Croats & Bosniaks.

How can you look yourself in the mirror everyday knowing your only reason for existence is to passionately lie all the time?

Croats were defending Yugoslavia.
*** No they weren't, they were aligning with the Nazis.

Nazis occupied Croatia.
*** Croatia welcomed the Nazis into their arms.

Croatia a heroes...
If you consider genocidal maniacs heroes, then maybe.

Serbs lie and exaggerate.

Only to Albanian women (excluding anyone related to Guest), and we don't have to exaggerate.

(Azir, 30 January 2018 19:06

Every time you post something, you just make a bigger Budala out of yourself, and unfortunately the few decent Albanians in this forum. Now take your Palmolive Dishwashing some and get back in the kitchen.....

@njegos

You told me that the The Wiesenthal Center was where you got your numbers. When I proved you wrong you start quoting a fake organization run by your mate from his mother's basement in New York.

Are you 12? lol. Get a life

What happened at Jasenovac was horrific, no need to exaggerate. When Serb politicians lie so often about easily verifiable facts, people stop believing anything they say, which is bad for true victims
(Dwight, 29 January 2018 16:48)
=========================
That's right, the facts are easily verifiable so why isn't anyone else trying to set the record straight?
Croatia has plenty of friends and none are jumping in to tell the "truth". Germany should be the first country presenting alternative numbers. I wonder why they don't present their own.

(Bosnian Genocide Survivor, 30 January 2018 09:53)

Yes, Prince Pavle did sign an agreement with Germany, but all that was asked of Yugoslavia was an unimpeded passage through it and nothing else.

When that agreement was torn up the Germans bombed Belgrade not Zagreb and invaded Yugoslavia. Under German occupation they could do whatever they wanted. It was not Milan Nedic that declared it was Jew free but the occupiers. The Germans never gave Nedic a second thought and mostly ignored him. This can be verified in German military archives.

Draza Mihlalovic personally never collaborated with the Germans, but there is plenty of evidence that the Partisans did exactly that to eliminate the Chetniks who were their competitors for power. Funny if Draza was with the Germans then why did US President Truman posthumously award Draza a medal?

You say 10,000 were killed in Srebrenica, well you might tell the world that one since they claim its 8,000, but BS is always BS.

I recall a Croat author suggested that Serbs, not Germans, had been responsible for running the Staro Sajmiste, but after the Jewish historians ripped him apart he was never heard of again. Staro Sajmiste was part of NDH and run by your bros the Croats not Serbs.

Good luck in changing all this stuff because its in all the university libraries throughout the world. Dacic did not make this up mate. Your about as Bosnian as I am French. More like an illiterate Albanian.

Croats were simply defending their country .

If believe they could of done a better job.
(Azir, 30 January 2018 00:13)

What country??? They didn't have a country, it was part of Jugoslavia!

From Dwight: "So it looks like the numbers are accepted byeveryone except you"

Well Dwight, here's a little afternoon reading for you. Please pay close attention:

Jasenovas research institute From August 1941 to April 1945, hundreds of thousands of Serbs, Jews, and Romas, as well as anti-fascists of many nationalities, were murdered at the death camp known as Jasenovac. Estimates of the total numbers of men, women and children killed there range from 300,000 to 700,000. And yet, despite the scale of the crimes committed there, most of the world has never heard of Jasenovac.

German generals issued reports of the number of victims as the war progressed. German military commanders gave different figures for the number of Serbs, Jews, and others killed by the Ustaše inside the Independent State of Croatia. They circulated figures of 400,000 Serbs (Alexander Löhr); 350,000 Serbs (Lothar Rendulic); around 300,000 (Edmund Glaise von Horstenau); in 1943; "600-700,000 until March 1944" (Ernst Fick); 700,000 (Massenbach).

Maybe you should read it again Dwight. I'm quite sure you're still in denial.

@njegos
There are NOT countless reliable sources that put the number of those killed at Jasenovac in the several hundreds of thousands.
If you want to pick some giant number so you can moan about Croats in your chetink meetings is ok, but dont expect any normal person to believe you.
Any large number is impossible because Jasenovac killings were mostly individual/small groups, there was no gas chambers etc where 100s or 1000s could be killed for days on end.
The original large numbers were likely invented to increase the amount of damages that Germany had to pay Yugo after the war and then were later used by Serb nationalists to build support for wars in 1990s

Here are some respected numbers of total numbers (about 50% are Serbs)

USHMM 2017...77,000-99,000
Wiesenthal Centre...85,000-100,000
Dragan Cvetković, Belgrade Museum of Genocide..100,000
Vladimir Žerjavić (1992)...83,000
Belgrade Museum of Genocide Victims (80,022)
Jasenovac Memorial Site has named 83,000 victims

Here are some sources that are pure fiction:

Vladimir Dedijer 700,000
Radomir Bulatovic 1.1 million
Milan Bulajić (1992) Belgrade Museum of Genocide Victims (1.1 mill)
Donja Gradina Memorial Site (Fake RS NGO) 700,000
ICET Jasenovac (Fake RS NGO) 800,000.
Franjo Tudjman 40,000
Society for Research of the Threefold Jasenovac Camp (Fake Croatian NGO) 2000
Croatian parliament (1992) 2,238
SFRY(1946)...500,000
SFRY(1964)...59,000

Here are some sources that are pure fiction:

Vladimir Dedijer 700,000
Radomir Bulatovic 1.1 million
Milan Bulajić (1992) Belgrade Museum of Genocide Victims (1.1 mill)
Donja Gradina Memorial Site (Fake RS NGO) 700,000
ICET Jasenovac (Fake RS NGO) 800,000.
Franjo Tudjman 40,000
Society for Research of the Threefold Jasenovac Camp (Fake Croatian NGO) 2000
Croatian parliament (1992) 2,238
SFRY(1946)...500,000
SFRY(1964)...59,000
(Dwight, 31 January 2018 15:45

Dwight, my little Balkan Rommel. You can try to spew, deny, deceive, but you can never re-write history. You and your Croatian people will forever be associated with Nazi Germany, you are the Nazis of the theBalkans. There's nothing you can say or do to change that. Repent, ask you corrupt, genocide protecting, child molesting Catholic for forgiveness. How's your little ass feel from mass last week, a little sore i bet. You're the lowest of the low and the most disgusting people in Europe.

@njegos

None of those are credible. If you read the rest of the wikipedia article that you are using you would know that.

Ptolemy's geocentric model seemed credible for a long time until later people proved that the Earth rotated around the Sun.
All those sources of yours are 60 years old or secondary sources that reference 60 year old sources, and many of them are for total deaths, not Jasenovac.
People did further research after 1950.

In 1931 there were 636,000 Serbs living in Croatia. In 1948 there were 543,000. This is a reduction of 100,000. Are you telling me that Croatia imported 600,000 Serbs from the rest of Yugoslavia to kill in Jasenovac, while leaving the majority of the Croatian Serbs alone?

bye bye Ptolemy

Where this will lead? Is this an old balkan middle age competition of who has killed more each other or it's a new one? Anyways i hope we albanians stay out of this.

@ from Albania - lol, then why even offer your opinion on this?
Stay in the dark, dude..there was no Genocide in Bosnia nor Croatia...If the Albanians and Croatians had a right to defend themselves, then so do Srbs...unfortunately for you both, the world is catching on...as current events unfold themselves! Your days as "the only victims" are gone....

From Dwight: "The number of victims in Jasenovac is accepted as 80,000-120,000, with about 40,000-60,000 of those being Serbs."

This is precisely the problem Dwight. 'Accepted' by whom? The Wiesenthal Center puts the numbers of Serbs and others killed at several hundred thousand. German officers, who kept meticulous records, puts the number even higher than that of the Wiesenthal Center. For you to say the 'accepted' number is 80,000 - 120,000 is shameful and revisionist. Isn't it time for you play some Thomson music?

What happened at Jasenovac was horrific, no need to exaggerate. When Serb politicians lie so often about easily verifiable facts, people stop believing anything they say, which is bad for true victims
(Dwight, 29 January 2018 16:48)

So if I get you correctly, the problem isn't the Jasenovac/NDH exhibition at the UN, but that it's being promoted by people you don't like, right?

You're grasping at straws here.

I personally hate Netanyahu but he's in his full right to bring up the Holocaust whenever there's a case of denial, downplay, or whitewashing.

And since you're pretty keen on getting the number of deaths down right, let's assume your estimate is correct. That still puts all other cases of ethnic cleansing, mass murder, and state-sponsored war crimes in the region to shame. Srebrenica can't hold a candle to the NDH and any attempt by Serbia to downplay that pales in comparison to what Croatia does with its war crimes.

You miss the main point for a subjective technicality and then blame the Serbs for politicizing the event instead of the Croats who not only go out of their way to downplay the whole event, but seek to rehabilitate many NDH officials as simple patriots to their country.

I assure you there would be the same push for remembering the genocide of NDH in Serbia were it anyone in power - Vucic, Dacic, otherwise. And I assure you Croatia would still be looking for ways to complain about someone bringing up a truth they work so hard to bury.

Dwight, there are countless reliable sources, ie German records and book by non-Serbs that put the number of those killed at Jasenovac in the several hundreds of thousands. The sources are researchable and reliable. Even your Croat henchmen that carried out the killings bragged about numbers that dwarf your revisionist claims. Time to put down the Franjo Tudjman historical book of lies Dwight and come to grips with the ugly past of your people. And BTW, we've only been talking about the horrible death camp of Jasenovac. There were countless other Serbs butchered in their villages, homes, fields and even churches. You see, the discussion on Jasenovac only scratches the surface Dwight. Shall we continue the discussion or is time for you to run away now to another thread?

Dwight - Go back and read my latest posts. The references I provided clearly stated 'Serbs killed by Ustasa.' Did you have difficulty paying attention in school? So, by your latest comments, I guess you agree with the number of 'Serbs killed by Ustasa,' from the sources provided right? Or were they exaggerated too? Please answer. And the statistics of Serbs killed at Jasenovac from your allies, the German officers, do corroborate my numbers about Jasenovac. Why would the Germans inflate the numbers? What would be their motivation? And I didn't even include testimony from the Ustasha butchers themselves who claim the highest numbers of all! Shall we go down that road Dwight?

And you conveniently dodged my question of how many Jews were killed in the Holocaust. Please answer Dwight. Waiting...waiting...waiting...

Dwight - Your acknowledgement of 6 million Jews killed during the Holocaust is a move in the right direction for a revisionist like yourself. Most Croats dispute this generally accepted number. But back to the original discussion. My point on Serbs killed at Jasenovac is that there are many, many credible sources that claim the number is in the several hundreds of thousands. The best example are the German officers who you dismiss because they greatly conflict with your minimization of the victims. And many, many credible sources claim that the total number of Serbs killed in the NDH during WWII (inside and outside of Jasenovac) ranges from 700K to over 1M. Again, most Croats choose to deny this. So, it is obvious that we will never agree on the number of those killed at Jasenovac. But in your educated opinion (and I use that word loosely) how many Serbs were killed by the NDH and their supporters during WWII? Please answer.

BTW, have you started your reading assignment yet? A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

My whole point is that Dacic is not helping by exxagerating the Jasenovac casualties ( Just as Croatia dont help by underestimating)
You might be ignorant but he is not. His statement and the exhibition numbers were done to provoke a reaction from Croatia so that he could look like a hero.
But his self-serving actions in front of the Serbian voters are done at the expense of Serbia's international reputation.
If the foreign minister makes such easily disprovable statements, when can he ever be believed?
(Dwight, 1 February 2018 16:19)

Dwight, you can't call out Dacic for trying to instigate, when you have Kolinda taking picots with the Croatian Flag with a big "U' on it and she openly says she love listening to Thompson - now, I don't know anything about this person, but my understanding is that all his sings are about Ultra-Nationalism and Ustasa Pride. Now, you tell me who's instigating. You can't have it both ways dude...

@njegos
You are like a broken record. You are wrong, and stop changing the subject to distract.
There are NOT many credible sources that claim the number of Serbs killed at Jasenovac is in the several hundreds of thousands.
It is at least 30 years since that number has been proved wrong.

@Chitown
I dont understand your point. Is it that Kolinda is a Nazi-apologist so its ok for Dacic to lie about how many Serbs were killed at Jasenovac?

Serbia will never be a better country, nor given any respect if the plan is that every time Croatia tells a lie, Serbia tells a bigger one.
Every time Croatia pardons a war criminal, Serbia pardons 2 etc.


And Vucic loves it when Croatia does crazy Nazi stuff, he wants them to do more. Every minute you spend pointlessly complaining about Croatia and frothing at the mouth about what some has-been fascist is singing, is one more minute that you are not wondering where all the money is going

@Chitown
I dont understand your point. Is it that Kolinda is a Nazi-apologist so its ok for Dacic to lie about how many Serbs were killed at Jasenovac?

Serbia will never be a better country, nor given any respect if the plan is that every time Croatia tells a lie, Serbia tells a bigger one.
Every time Croatia pardons a war criminal, Serbia pardons 2 etc.


And Vucic loves it when Croatia does crazy Nazi stuff, he wants them to do more. Every minute you spend pointlessly complaining about Croatia and frothing at the mouth about what some has-been fascist is singing, is one more minute that you are not wondering where all the money is going
(Dwight, 1 February 2018 20:28

We all love when Croatia does crazy Nazi stuff, are you kidding me?!?! People are tired of the revisionist, deceitful, and hateful posture you've taken towards the Balkans. Always trying to pretend that you are Western Europeans! Hate to break it to you pal, you're just a Serb whose ancestors changed their religion, no better, no worse. You have to come to terms with that and try to integrate into the Balkans rather than pushing the get into the West where you are not wanted - because, they don't see you any different than all of us.

From Dwight: "If you are a Serb then Croatians are YOUR brethren. Croats and Serbs are almost identical. They are much closer to you than Russians, other Slavs and any other ethnic population in the world. The only real difference is religion."

I'm sure the majority of your fellow Croats would beg to differ with you Dwight. For a long time, there was a movement among the Croats that claimed they weren't Slavs at all, but Germanic. Remember that one? I don't deny that Serbs and Croats are very close from a DNA standpoint, but when fanatical religious zealots brainwash people, as was the case in WWII Croatia when the official policy was to exterminate all Serbs, DNA means nothing. The sooner you come to grips with this, the better. The truth will set you free. Don't believe those Ustasha propaganda history books handed down to you from your parents and grandparents.

The Croatians alway try and play the Victim all one has to do is to look in theirs past and uncover the Death Camps instigated by Hitler and the Croatian people.

What surprises me is that Leonard & Ned Taylor are nowhere to be found on this issue. Perhaps still in bed with each other. If so, add Azir ro make it a threesum.

French author/historian Edmond Paris, in his book "Genocide in Satellite Croatia" put the numbers down as 750,000 Serbs, 60,000 Jews and 26,000 Gypsies.

Check -> https://www.spirituallysmart.com/genocide_in_croatia.pdf

What Sloba and his henchmen did was similar to what Hitler and his henchmen did.
(Avni, 29 January 2018 20:57)

No, what Pavelic and his henchmen did was similar to what Hitler and his henchmen did. Only they did it worse. They had death camps for children and held contests for how many Serbs they could kill in one night. Stop being stupid.

Weird to see individuals comparing what happened in the 1990s to what happened in WWII. These Croatian Nazi puppets weren't even punished and didn't pay for their crimes. Yet, individuals in the last Balkan wars have died in prison for crimes that are a tiny fraction of the scale of the crimes committed by the Croat Nazi puppets in WWII. This is an important exhibition for all to see. I can't wait to see it.

Dwight the Greeks are the same way when asked how many ethnic Greeks do they think 💭 🤔 live in Albania 🇦🇱 They inflate 60,000 to 600,000!

If the Serb claim 700,000 it’s probably 70,000.
And out of that majority were Jews with few Serbs.
10-12 million Russians died Serb number is numericaly insignificant.

@ChiTown
The only reason that you get the moral high ground over Croatia is that leaders of Croatia were quickest to lick Hitlers boots. If you were alive in WW2 you would have been right beside them, begging for a job to setup your own camp.
You may not consider your self ethnic brother to Utashe but you are ideological brother for sure.

@njegos
The quote you are using is for total deaths in the war not just for Jasenovac. Did you have an orgasm and could not finish reading the paragraph on wikipedia?


You say that the 330K - 390K Serbs were killed in Jasenovac according to USHMM, yet here it is on their webpage:

"It is presently estimated that the Ustaša regime murdered between 77,000 and 99,000 people in Jasenovac between 1941 and 1945."
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005449


You say that several hundred thousand were killed in Jasenovac according to The Wiesenthal Center, yet here it is on their Jasenovac webpage:

"where close to 100,000 Serbs, Jews, Roma, and anti-fascist Croatians were murdered by the Ustasha."
http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/apps/s/content.asp?c=lsKWLbPJLnF&b=4442915&ct=14966995

It is clear that you will only see what you want to see.

Sorry, not continuing this , you got numbers from Jasenovac completely wrong and then after a few posts you switch to total Serb casualties from the war and also change the subject to Jews.
Best current estimates say 6 million Jews died in WW2. You are too busy name-calling to pay attention to the conversation.

My whole point is that Dacic is not helping by exxagerating the Jasenovac casualties ( Just as Croatia dont help by underestimating)
You might be ignorant but he is not. His statement and the exhibition numbers were done to provoke a reaction from Croatia so that he could look like a hero.
But his self-serving actions in front of the Serbian voters are done at the expense of Serbia's international reputation.
If the foreign minister makes such easily disprovable statements, when can he ever be believed?

@ChiTown

So anytime you are caught lying, you call the other person a Croat and have an imaginary argument with them about something else?

From Dwight the Croatian revisionst: "There are NOT many credible sources that claim the number of Serbs killed at Jasenovac is in the several hundreds of thousands."

Here you go Dwight:

Jewish Research Institute - Barry Lituchy 300K- 700K Serbs
Encyclopedia of the Holocaust - Israel Gutman 600K (mostly Serbs)
Yad Vashem 500K Serbs
Jewish Virtual Library 3330K - 390K Serbs
Alexander Lohr German Officer WWII 400K Serbs
Lothar Rendulic German Officer 350K Serbs
Edmund Von Horstenau German Officer 300K Serbs
Ernst Fick German Officer 600K Serbs
Massenbach German Officer 700K Serbs
Italian Generals 350K Serbs

Is that enough or do you want more?

Your continual denial is precisely the reason why there will be no reconciliation between Serbs and Croats. Germany came to grips with their wrongdoing ago and have built a thriving progressive country based on human rights for a its citizens while Croatia is reviving its fascist past. You are clearly part of the problem Dwight. Tell me, where were your relatives during WWII? I can only guess based on your past comments.

From Dwight (the Croatian revisionist): "None of those are credible. If you read the rest of the wikipedia article that you are using you would know that."

Wrong again Dwight. I don't use Wikipedia as a source. I provided you with the sources and you still dismiss them. You claim they are 60+ years old. The Jewish Research Institute figures are from 2000 just to name one. And some of the sources are older, ie German officers who were there at the time of these massacres. And yet you dispute there numbers. Were you there Dwight? You asked for sources and I provided them. Then you say the numbers are for total people killed not just Serbs. Wrong. I specified numbers of Serbs. Go back and read, but pay attention this time. And your weakest argument is that these statistics are old! That's a good one Dwight! Should we accept the watered down numbers from revisionists Croats like yourself who weren't even alive when these massacres occurred? Sorry, but I tend to think that the German officers who fought on the side of the Croats have a little more credibility that you. I've provided everything you've asked for and have provided several sources who contradict your watered down numbers. You're an internet troll who just got buried. That was too easy!!!!

Hey Dwight - You still haven't answered the following questions:
- How many Serbs were killed by the Ustasha during WWII?
- Were any of your family members Ustasha during WWII?
- Is your middle name Franjo?

Waiting...waiting...waiting....

P.S. Ante Pavelic and Andrija Artukovic were just a couple of them. They were harbored at St. Jeromes Seminary uder the juristiction of Bishop GIOVANI BATISTA MONTINI, WHO LATER BECAME POPE PAUL THE VI. In 1986, Artukovic became expendible and was denatrualized as an American citizen and deported .

Hey Dwight, I'm growing tired of teaching you the history of your own people, but I see it is necessary in your case.

Jasenovac Research Institute: 300K - 700K Serbs killed by Ustasa
US Holocaust Memorial Museum: 330K - 390K Serbs killed by Ustasa
Jewish Vurtual Library: 330K - 390K Serbs killed by Ustasa
Vad Yashem: 500K Serbs killed by Ustasa
Veritas: 320K - 340K Serbs killed by Ustasa
Holocaust Education and Archive Research Project: 600K Serbs killed by Ustasa

And let's not forget the only concentration camp set up exclusively for the extermination of children, Jasterbarsko where Croats killed 1,018 children.

To further your education on the subject please read Unholy Trinity by Loftus and Aarons

Vatican's Holocaust by Avro Manhattan

Genocide in Satellite Croatia by Edmond Paris

Please note that all of these sources and authors are non-Serb. Now get busy, you have a lot of reading to do.

One more thing Dwight, a discussion on Jasenovac victims wouldn't be complete without testimony from your Nazi masters. Here are some of their figures from their officers:

"400,000 Serbs (Alexander Löhr); 350,000 Serbs (Lothar Rendulic); around 300,000 (Edmund Glaise von Horstenau) in 1943; "600–700,000 until March 1944" (Ernst Fick); and 700,000 (Massenbach)."

I know this last bit of reliable information is tough to swallow for you because these statistics come from those who fought on the Croatian side and were there during this sadistic killing spree. Your Croatian henchmen were so brutal that they even appalled their Nazi partners. And this is the regime that systematically put to death 6 million Jews. Oops, that's another generally accepted number that I'm sure you believe is exaggerated too, right? Please tell me how many Jews perished in the Holocaust. Can't wait to hear your revisionist answer on that one Dwight.

Adrian bukurest @
We swallowed each year!!! 🤮

@ChiTown

So anytime you are caught lying, you call the other person a Croat and have an imaginary argument with them about something else?
(Dwight, 2 February 2018 09:12

Hey Dwight, let's go back to the beginning and I want your take on why the former Yugoslavia broke up - maybe cause and effect. Maybe a good place to start so you and I can better understand each other - right now it seems we're both a bit confused.