Croatia likely to buy USD 500 million-worth of Israeli F-16s

Yeah why not Croatian killed so many jews in concentration camp in Jasenovac so Israelis should sell them planes and other military equipment to finish job in future Stupid Israeli government they dont have self respe t and respect.for their brothers and sisters killed by nazi croats.

If these are just old F16s then this is perhaps not a good purchase by the Croats. Serbia are getting reconditioned M29s. These will be like brand new aircraft with modern weapons systems. Serbia got their MiGs as gifts from Russia and Belorussia, although Serbia will pay for the reconditioning and new weapons systems. If the Croats have to recondition their F16s then they will cost much more than the price quoted.

The only question I have is "why" would Croatia spend that kind of money when they are in a club where everyone comes to the aid of an attacked member? One for all, all for one!
Croatia SHOULD have the military might of NATO if attacked, no? Isn't this the agreement of being part of NATO?
(Watcher, 26 January 2018 17:22) NATO only works if U.S. is leading it. Europe pussies led NATO is just that. Cant fight there way out of paper bag worried they mite get a paper cut truly pathetic. Any ways Serbs say all the time EU and NATO will collapse. Serbia will rule from Belgrade to Tokyo. We Croatians have to stop the Serb juggernaut all by our self's. Israel said they will help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fker12E3nBE since we given help many times in many ways. Were working together on two dozen military projects were scared of the rising super power Serbia you know how cruel they are rite.

Nothing wrong with Croatia arming itself for the defense of the country. Every country should be prepared to defend itself to the best of it's abilities & financial means. Serbia learned the hard way so her arming itself is understandable. "Once bitten, twice shy".
The only question I have is "why" would Croatia spend that kind of money when they are in a club where everyone comes to the aid of an attacked member? One for all, all for one!
Croatia SHOULD have the military might of NATO if attacked, no? Isn't this the agreement of being part of NATO?

Congratulations 🍾🎈🎉 Croatia 🇭🇷!

Finish them Chetniks off this time around so they can expand their pointless exhibits at the UN!

Give them a better reason to complain!

Viva Croatia 🇭🇷 😜😍

Croatia has no choice but to upgrade its Air Force. Being part of NATO it has to meet the 2% of GDP spending on defence as it agreed on when it joined. The last few years it slipped to under 1.3% but Trump is now putting pressure for everyone to meet their obligations. With the improvements in its economy in the last 2 years it now has to spend more then it planned to.

The Greek offer of F16 A/B version was too out of date and would need upgrading. The brand new US F16 C/D version was too expensive at $ 1.7 billion. the Gripen from Sweden was $900 million. There is where Israel came in with their F16 C/D version which they upgraded to the Barak version which could carry 2 more tons of weapons and were upgraded with Israeli avonics.

Last month when it looked like Croatia was going to go with the Gripen, Israel sweetened the offer and agreed to sell some of the newer F16s that are currently in service and sell those along with all of the training and support plus weapon systems that include Israeli made Air to Air and Air to Ground missiles. What is still unclear is that the Croatian tender was for 12 aircraft but Israeli news is reporting that they will be selling Croatia 30 aircraft. This might be 12C/D versions and the rest being A/B. Or the journalists got the number wrong.

The investment offsetting is interesting where Israel agreed to invest almost as much into the Croatian defense and technology industry over the next few years.

@Chitown

That 500 million includes the air to air as well as the air to ground missiles plus the simulator as well as the mechanic and pilot training so you can’t just divide the 550 million by 12 aircraft.

You first have to subtract the value of the Python 4&5 air to air missiles and the amount of missiles included in the package plus the Popeye and Spice AGM missiles included. That along with the training costs that can go over a million per pilot and you can then come to the price per aircraft. the actual price will be closer to between 20 and 30 million a piece again depending on how many bombs and missiles are included.

The offset of Israeli investment in the Croatian Defence and technology industries should also be taken into consideration.

This will not be the first time Israel has sold military equipment to Croatia, the relationship goes back to the 1990’s in case you were not aware.

Let's remind ourselves that those Israeli planes were part of the US military aid Israel receives annually as the favourite US nation.Now the idiotic croats are sold planes which were destine for scrapage and Leny is trying to tell us about the non-existent croatian friendshp with israel.It's a day light robbery Leny,they're selling you their 30 years old flying coffins for $500 mil which they had from the us for free.

@Azir

Dacic and co. Can only fool themselves with Jasenovac, where no normal person in this world gives a flying f**k. Even the Jews are more interested in selling defence capability to Croatia than focusing on a concrete statue that looks more like something from a $2 shop.

This is a good deal for Croatia, 12 F16C/D's for $500M - this is just slightly north of $40M/Aircraft. I believe the cost of a new F16C/D back in the late 90's was just shy of $20M. Way to negotiate Croatia, I'm glad you're taking inflation into consideration - and you can probably add another $12M for upgrades.

All good the jews will sell Croats their out of service garbage planes. While on the other hand Israel is selling state of the art drone missles to destroy these planes to Serbia. Win win very smart Israel makes a cool 500 million for nothing.

The offset of Israeli investment in the Croatian Defence and technology industries should also be taken into consideration.

This will not be the first time Israel has sold military equipment to Croatia, the relationship goes back to the 1990’s in case you were not aware.
(Mark.W, 27 January 2018 16:26

Mark W, something still smells fishy here, and I think it might be icj or Mildred Green, but time will tell. Why wouldn't you take this money and buy 6 new F35 Stealths? There would be enough money left over to train pilots, and plenty for air to air missiles. Just doesn't make sense to me, so there has to be more to the story - we'll see what actually happens.

Croatia SHOULD have the military might of NATO if attacked, no? Isn't this the agreement of being part of NATO?
(Watcher, 26 January 2018 17:22)

Yes, dear, that's the agreement. You finally got it... Congratulations! :)

I have 2 remarks:

(1) Does Israel (=the USA) want an arm race in the Balkans with Russia?

(2) Russia will probably react to this situation. So, what is Russia going to offer to Serbia next? S-300 missiles systems? Buk M2 systems? More Mig-29? SU-30? Time will tell...

Only goes to prove that Serbia can't trust Israel?

Why isnt everybody calling them stupid for buying israels rusty junk? Isnt that what i heard non stop not too long ago here? Hypocrites. Btw to those breaking down what comes with these planes, missles and various other equipment, THATS STANDARD. When you buy a fleet of a particular aircraftcthe price has missles, spare parts and command center eqipment. I wont talk smack, f16 is a great airplane and will serve them well. There are plenty of options with them. They did pay a hefty sum for the planes but thats their problem.

@ChiTown

I am sure that the cost of the aircraft was the main reason they are probably going to choose the Israeli F 16’s.

New F35 are about $100 million each compared the used F16 of about $25 million each. When you also look at the operating costs of $34,000 per hour for the F35 and $8000 per hour for the F16 you can see things can get expensive very quickly. (Mig 29 at $18,500 per hour)

Another factor I am sure they considered was the technology jump for maintenance, The Mig21’s were 2nd generation while the F16 are 4th generation and the F35 are 5th generation fighters. Going from steam gauges and cables to EFIS and Fly By Wire are going to a big jumps for the technicians but less so for the pilots.

A lot of other factors were also considered as they should be, when all are considered I am sure they will choose what thay need, what they can handle and what they can afford.

Since the decision has not been announced maybe the Gripen still has a chance.

Should have bought the Gripen. If they wanted the latest version, then the export E/F currently being developed for the Brazilian Air Force. Cheap to run, easy to maintain, very good electronics and software, multirole, new all around and much more modern and fuel efficient engine.

Were working together on two dozen military projects were scared of the rising super power Serbia you know how cruel they are rite.
(Lenard, 26 January 2018 22:10)

I assume, you are sarcastic this time. Yes, Croatia as a rising super power has to counter the rising super power Serbia. One using outdated F-16, the other is going to use the outdated MiG-29.

What's the Croatian word for "corruption"?

In your much-hated Srbijo that's "Коррупциja" I think...

You are (again) in that Zágráb (sorry to spell it Hungarian way...) like your brothers and sisters in Београд.

ROFL.

I agree about "super power". Hungary, Croatia and Serbia are indeed super-powers but we have to watch for Albania, it's maybe going to surpass us.

@Sam

After the last war in the 1990’s Croatia saw how important it was to have a strong military and what it cost not having one.
If a country gives up its fighter aircraft it not only loses air defence but also the knowledge that was built up over the years (pilots, mechanics etc...)

Then the question comes up as to who will protect your airspace and how much will it cost?
Slovenian is paying Italy and Hungary to protect their airspace.

Isn't it better Croatia to spend more on training, logistics, Inteligance and a smaller professional Force rather then aircraft?

Congratulations 🍾🎈🎉 Croatia 🇭🇷!

Finish them Chetniks off this time around so they can expand their pointless exhibits at the UN!

Give them a better reason to complain!

Viva Croatia 🇭🇷 😜😍

Yeah why not Croatian killed so many jews in concentration camp in Jasenovac so Israelis should sell them planes and other military equipment to finish job in future Stupid Israeli government they dont have self respe t and respect.for their brothers and sisters killed by nazi croats.

The only question I have is "why" would Croatia spend that kind of money when they are in a club where everyone comes to the aid of an attacked member? One for all, all for one!
Croatia SHOULD have the military might of NATO if attacked, no? Isn't this the agreement of being part of NATO?
(Watcher, 26 January 2018 17:22) NATO only works if U.S. is leading it. Europe pussies led NATO is just that. Cant fight there way out of paper bag worried they mite get a paper cut truly pathetic. Any ways Serbs say all the time EU and NATO will collapse. Serbia will rule from Belgrade to Tokyo. We Croatians have to stop the Serb juggernaut all by our self's. Israel said they will help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fker12E3nBE since we given help many times in many ways. Were working together on two dozen military projects were scared of the rising super power Serbia you know how cruel they are rite.

If these are just old F16s then this is perhaps not a good purchase by the Croats. Serbia are getting reconditioned M29s. These will be like brand new aircraft with modern weapons systems. Serbia got their MiGs as gifts from Russia and Belorussia, although Serbia will pay for the reconditioning and new weapons systems. If the Croats have to recondition their F16s then they will cost much more than the price quoted.

Let's remind ourselves that those Israeli planes were part of the US military aid Israel receives annually as the favourite US nation.Now the idiotic croats are sold planes which were destine for scrapage and Leny is trying to tell us about the non-existent croatian friendshp with israel.It's a day light robbery Leny,they're selling you their 30 years old flying coffins for $500 mil which they had from the us for free.

All good the jews will sell Croats their out of service garbage planes. While on the other hand Israel is selling state of the art drone missles to destroy these planes to Serbia. Win win very smart Israel makes a cool 500 million for nothing.

I have 2 remarks:

(1) Does Israel (=the USA) want an arm race in the Balkans with Russia?

(2) Russia will probably react to this situation. So, what is Russia going to offer to Serbia next? S-300 missiles systems? Buk M2 systems? More Mig-29? SU-30? Time will tell...

@Azir

Dacic and co. Can only fool themselves with Jasenovac, where no normal person in this world gives a flying f**k. Even the Jews are more interested in selling defence capability to Croatia than focusing on a concrete statue that looks more like something from a $2 shop.

Why isnt everybody calling them stupid for buying israels rusty junk? Isnt that what i heard non stop not too long ago here? Hypocrites. Btw to those breaking down what comes with these planes, missles and various other equipment, THATS STANDARD. When you buy a fleet of a particular aircraftcthe price has missles, spare parts and command center eqipment. I wont talk smack, f16 is a great airplane and will serve them well. There are plenty of options with them. They did pay a hefty sum for the planes but thats their problem.

Nothing wrong with Croatia arming itself for the defense of the country. Every country should be prepared to defend itself to the best of it's abilities & financial means. Serbia learned the hard way so her arming itself is understandable. "Once bitten, twice shy".
The only question I have is "why" would Croatia spend that kind of money when they are in a club where everyone comes to the aid of an attacked member? One for all, all for one!
Croatia SHOULD have the military might of NATO if attacked, no? Isn't this the agreement of being part of NATO?

Croatia has no choice but to upgrade its Air Force. Being part of NATO it has to meet the 2% of GDP spending on defence as it agreed on when it joined. The last few years it slipped to under 1.3% but Trump is now putting pressure for everyone to meet their obligations. With the improvements in its economy in the last 2 years it now has to spend more then it planned to.

The Greek offer of F16 A/B version was too out of date and would need upgrading. The brand new US F16 C/D version was too expensive at $ 1.7 billion. the Gripen from Sweden was $900 million. There is where Israel came in with their F16 C/D version which they upgraded to the Barak version which could carry 2 more tons of weapons and were upgraded with Israeli avonics.

Last month when it looked like Croatia was going to go with the Gripen, Israel sweetened the offer and agreed to sell some of the newer F16s that are currently in service and sell those along with all of the training and support plus weapon systems that include Israeli made Air to Air and Air to Ground missiles. What is still unclear is that the Croatian tender was for 12 aircraft but Israeli news is reporting that they will be selling Croatia 30 aircraft. This might be 12C/D versions and the rest being A/B. Or the journalists got the number wrong.

The investment offsetting is interesting where Israel agreed to invest almost as much into the Croatian defense and technology industry over the next few years.

This is a good deal for Croatia, 12 F16C/D's for $500M - this is just slightly north of $40M/Aircraft. I believe the cost of a new F16C/D back in the late 90's was just shy of $20M. Way to negotiate Croatia, I'm glad you're taking inflation into consideration - and you can probably add another $12M for upgrades.

Croatia SHOULD have the military might of NATO if attacked, no? Isn't this the agreement of being part of NATO?
(Watcher, 26 January 2018 17:22)

Yes, dear, that's the agreement. You finally got it... Congratulations! :)

The offset of Israeli investment in the Croatian Defence and technology industries should also be taken into consideration.

This will not be the first time Israel has sold military equipment to Croatia, the relationship goes back to the 1990’s in case you were not aware.
(Mark.W, 27 January 2018 16:26

Mark W, something still smells fishy here, and I think it might be icj or Mildred Green, but time will tell. Why wouldn't you take this money and buy 6 new F35 Stealths? There would be enough money left over to train pilots, and plenty for air to air missiles. Just doesn't make sense to me, so there has to be more to the story - we'll see what actually happens.

@Chitown

That 500 million includes the air to air as well as the air to ground missiles plus the simulator as well as the mechanic and pilot training so you can’t just divide the 550 million by 12 aircraft.

You first have to subtract the value of the Python 4&5 air to air missiles and the amount of missiles included in the package plus the Popeye and Spice AGM missiles included. That along with the training costs that can go over a million per pilot and you can then come to the price per aircraft. the actual price will be closer to between 20 and 30 million a piece again depending on how many bombs and missiles are included.

The offset of Israeli investment in the Croatian Defence and technology industries should also be taken into consideration.

This will not be the first time Israel has sold military equipment to Croatia, the relationship goes back to the 1990’s in case you were not aware.

Were working together on two dozen military projects were scared of the rising super power Serbia you know how cruel they are rite.
(Lenard, 26 January 2018 22:10)

I assume, you are sarcastic this time. Yes, Croatia as a rising super power has to counter the rising super power Serbia. One using outdated F-16, the other is going to use the outdated MiG-29.

What's the Croatian word for "corruption"?

In your much-hated Srbijo that's "Коррупциja" I think...

You are (again) in that Zágráb (sorry to spell it Hungarian way...) like your brothers and sisters in Београд.

ROFL.

I agree about "super power". Hungary, Croatia and Serbia are indeed super-powers but we have to watch for Albania, it's maybe going to surpass us.

Isn't it better Croatia to spend more on training, logistics, Inteligance and a smaller professional Force rather then aircraft?

Only goes to prove that Serbia can't trust Israel?

@ChiTown

I am sure that the cost of the aircraft was the main reason they are probably going to choose the Israeli F 16’s.

New F35 are about $100 million each compared the used F16 of about $25 million each. When you also look at the operating costs of $34,000 per hour for the F35 and $8000 per hour for the F16 you can see things can get expensive very quickly. (Mig 29 at $18,500 per hour)

Another factor I am sure they considered was the technology jump for maintenance, The Mig21’s were 2nd generation while the F16 are 4th generation and the F35 are 5th generation fighters. Going from steam gauges and cables to EFIS and Fly By Wire are going to a big jumps for the technicians but less so for the pilots.

A lot of other factors were also considered as they should be, when all are considered I am sure they will choose what thay need, what they can handle and what they can afford.

Since the decision has not been announced maybe the Gripen still has a chance.

Should have bought the Gripen. If they wanted the latest version, then the export E/F currently being developed for the Brazilian Air Force. Cheap to run, easy to maintain, very good electronics and software, multirole, new all around and much more modern and fuel efficient engine.

@Sam

After the last war in the 1990’s Croatia saw how important it was to have a strong military and what it cost not having one.
If a country gives up its fighter aircraft it not only loses air defence but also the knowledge that was built up over the years (pilots, mechanics etc...)

Then the question comes up as to who will protect your airspace and how much will it cost?
Slovenian is paying Italy and Hungary to protect their airspace.