Two protests against Jeremic's UN bid to be held in Pristina
Two separate protest rallies have been scheduled in Pristina against <a href="http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2016&mm=08&dd=11&nav_id=98876" class="text-link" target= "_blank">Vuk Jeremic's candidacy</a> for the post of UN secretary-general.
Skenderbeu aka rote Stop pretending being an albanian rote. We are not idiots to believe your ruski fairy tails.
(andrew, 30 August 2016 12:57)
I am happy that you are not an idiot but I am a Russian and I live in Moscow while 80% of the Albanians/Whites were Rus people of the White Horde. From this point I agree that I am an Albanian and so were all Balkan peoples including Serbs. It was a proud name but it had no ethnical meaning but it showed the military force to which some people belonged.
I don’t think that local Skenderbeu will like the below but I believe that Georgy Iskander Bek was Rus Khan. He had a contradictious biography being part of the Ottomans (Kniazia Tverskie) and then Fighting them (Independent Horde). At least Tamerlane WHO FOUGHT THE Ottomans had 9 names with with all 3 components (Georgy Iskander Bek) present there :
Великий Эмир, Бек, Мирза, Абу Мансур, Абу Фатих, Абу Гази, Сахиб-и Кирани, Хаган, Гете Стани, Султан, Искандар Ул Ахад, Гурган.
Бек = Bek/Bey/Khan/Kniaz
Искандар Ул Ахад = Alexander The Great
Гурган = Georgy
Strange to say but Greeks played big roles in forming not only the Orthodox but the Catholic version. I don’t know when teachings of Christ was turned into teaching about Christ and Prophet Christ was turned into God Christ. Formally it happened during the Council of Chalcedon in 451(+1052=1603) i.e. during the Great Disorder inside the Horde. By the way do you pay attention to the word “don” arising now and then? It was a Rus word (Poseidon, Macedon, Chalcedon) meaning river or sea. For instance Chalcedon (historical center of Istanbul) = Halk-e Don = People from Don River. Life was only along the rivers and sea shores you know.
I do believe that by the fall of the century Fomenko’s version will dominate. Many tales and "how I won the war stories" will fall like dominos. Just because the amount of the contradicting facts grows rapidly. But even after it happens Greeks will have many things to be proud of. I am not happy about everything the Great Tartaria was doing but it was our history and we must know it before we can make some judgements. Those who rule this world have good memory and they must have saved the documents. That’s where from their non-stop Russophobia takes the roots. If you read the history of Turkey you will not find even mentioning of Russia before 17 century and so is Europe as if we have landed on parachutes from the heaven. Because Russia was the main target of the falsifications then and now.
After the Balkans were set free in 19-20 centuries they all faced problems not only with the borders but with ethnical and cultural sel-identification. And it was quite natural because the Ottomans as part of the former Mongol-Tatar Empire was built like Russia. Both were multinational and multi-religious empires. So all Orthodox were united in one Milleti Rum = People of Rome (!) headed by Greek Patriarchs from Fanar. So there were no conflicts neither inside the milliet nor with the 3 others (Catholic, Jewish and Muslim). Shqiptars were present in 3 out of 4 milliets and they too had no problems because the Muslim, Catholics and the Orthodox were part of the same former religion. But after the Ottomans the Shqiptars had to find their place between the Slavs and the Greeks who by that time already had their versions of the history. They knew nothing about the happlogroups that made them close relatives of the Greeks. Besides the Greeks were already proud of their newly obtained fame and did not mean to share it with anyone else. Meanwhile before 1821 the Greeks (current meaning) had never enjoyed a statehood of their own. Their ancestors played significant roles in many states of the past but seems that they had never enjoyed a state of their own. To tell the truth it didn’t matter much because nobility played decisive role before the first nations started to appear in 17 century. Most of them were artificially formed as well as their languages.
Leonidas : I think you’ve been brainwashed by Dan Brown’s books
I am a too big boy to be brainwashed that easy. Fomenko only gave me the main idea and now I can see things by myself. Besides he almost stopped his research in 17 century as he believes that after 1650 the history is more or less clear. But I don’t think so and I believe that even the 19 century was falsified in a great degree. We can talk about it if you like. You take it so close because Fomenko’s version touches history of Greece but his idea is that not only your history but any other is false. Russian, American or Chinese are nothing better and we can talk about it too. All new states meet the same problem of self-identification. It’s happening in Ukraine, Byelorussia, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Balkans and any other new states who try to find a reason why they must exist. 150 years ago should you ask peoples of north of Iran, Azerbaijan, Crimea or 5 states of Central Asia about their origin they would all say that they are Tatars. So we have to decode not only the real history but also the meaning of the words in the past. So were the Indians. How could it be that peoples in 3 faraway regions of the world could have the same name? Very simple is the answer – because it was a Russian word “inde” = far away = somewhere there. So peoples who inhabited the far away regions were called Indians here. See --- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Archive_of_the_Indies
Just think about the Mongols! In 21 century they still can do nothing but serve their cattle while to seize the world they needed some industry to make arms and supply the army. But before 20 century they even had no grammar to connect parts of the empire and accept taxes. Fomenko believes that their current name is derived from the Greek “Megaleon”. Look at the current Mongols and at the mediaeval ones - those are different peoples ethnically, culturally and in every other aspect!
See the “Mongol” emperors of Asia painted by Europeans http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b55003867c/f173.planchecontact
See also how “Arab” Mavrs (infact Russian Cossacks) looked like in Spain --- http://iskatel.info/tavryi-v-ispanii.html
See how the old maps looked like --- http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00generallinks/mallet/
Long ago I saw two Greeks trying to explain themselves. It was very funny but they failed as one was from Athens and the other from Tbilisi. The last one spoke almost Turkic but believed that it was Greek! We know little about who are and such a scene could happen to two Russians in the old times if they were from far away regions. Here if you live like a Russian and if you are an Orthodox you can say that you are a Russian. No matter if you are a Jew or a Caucasian. So words could have other meaning in the past. But your theory is concrete and does not suppose any changes or doubts.
Vatican library has underground corridors 8 km long and the most secret archives are in the end of the labyrinth. To reach there one needs permittion from the Pope himself.
rote
I think you’ve been brainwashed by Dan Brown’s books “Da Vinci Code” and “ Angels & Demons” that became Hollywood Films. You’re a creature of The Matrix created by Fomenko propagandists.You see imaginary ancient past and glory, not real ones.Give some credit to world historians and scientists teaching at the best Universities of the world.They're not part of some great conspiracy that Fomenko makes you believe.
Skenderbeu 1444
Leonidas I think you still make confusion between hellenistic civilization and greek ethnicity.
Where do i mention ethnicity in my posting? I just gave you a brief account of the transformation of the Eastern Roman Empire into Byzantine one.I agree that the empire was a multi-racial one.I’ve also given you all non-Greekl sources from eminent Byzantologists to judge for yourself.
With regard to WWII reparations I think it is insane to ask today for something that Greece could have asked in 1946.
Greece asked for reparations back in 1953 and was told that Germany couldn’t pay because it was divided and East Germany didn’t accept any responsibility for Nazi loans.When Germany was united in 1989 the subject came back again but this time we were told that Germany was the biggest EU contributor and Greece was benefiting from the EU budget but so were many other countries.The Nazi loans have nothing to do with the EU budget.
As i’ve said before the Chams were driven out from Greece not by the Greek government(there wasn’t one) but by the resistance and the British.After the war the then Greek government asked the Albania for them to be sent back and stand trial as enemy collaborators and war crimes.Albania refused and instead granted them amnesty.
Rotes makes very good questions and is really hard for Leonidas to answer these questions and he wants reliable sources! One reliable source that comes to my mind is the Greek Revolution whose major commanders were all Arvanit or Whites. Now how come that these "whites" became so important if we are told that they were just new immigrants in Greece? How come that these Whites showed up after more than 10 centuries during which nobody mentioned them?
then by the same token we can say that the empire of today, the eu, is english empire ,just bc the official language is English. is this what u basically saying ?
about them sources that u bring to back up your claim,the same nr of sources can be brought up to back up illyrian-albanian continuity.
(delon,
Really? English language is not the official EU language but one of the official languages of all members.Therefore your analogy is wrong.
I deliberately didn't quote any Greek Byzantine historian (there're more than 40) for the reason of being accused of bias.This why I've quoted eminent non-Greek Byzantolists.
With regard to your Illyrian-Albanian connection If you do have any world renown non-Albanian sources i am prepared to look at them.
Trojan aka Gothic war that started in 1185 in Istanbul and ended in 1340 in Europe.
(rote, 29 August 2016 10:06)
In fact it ended in 1329 when 100% of Europe became vassals of the Horde with Horde's governors everywhere. Balkan region and Austria (Eastern Reich) were the main strongholds of the Horde/Tartaria. Balkans was something special. All local peoples were loyal to the Horde and were considered as the Whites but only the Shqiptars saved this memory while since 19 century Serbs accepted the Vatican version of the history. Romanov's Russia served them bad service as Serbs trusted this German dynasty. Russia set them free not only as the Orthodox but also because the Romanovs and the Rurikovici Osmans were mortal enemies of one another since the Romanovs seized power in 1613. Before that they killed all the legal Rurikovici calling them false Dmitri I and false Dmitry II.
Most Russian Kniaz/Khans had Byzantine roots. In the times when this land was fems/colonies of the Byzantine Tsargrad was appointing their people to rule all their far away territories including Russia. That’s why none of them admitted another as a superior power. So they fought one another all the time even after Byzantine became colony of the Rus. Sometimes they split away, sometimes swallowed one another. After brothers Ivan and Georgy put the whole world on the knees in 1329 their power was never questioned. De facto their descendants always headed the Horde. But after 1340 military power shifted to Volga Region where the Golden Horde was prospering. Those were Kniaz/Khans of Riazan – another branch of the ruling Ruricovici. Initially they belonged to the mighty Chernigov Kniazia in Ukraine but then they split away and formed Muromo-Riazan Kniazdome. They always fought one another especially after 1340 when the founder of the empire Ivan Danilovic died. In Britain he is known as Brut and it gave name to the islands. His elder son Dmitry I Ivanovic aka Murad I aka Constantine I was too young to save the empire while in the Golden Horde almost every year the Khans were changed. By 1380 Mamay became de facto Khan of the Golden Horde. Like Tamerlane he didn’t belong to the Dynasty and had zero chance to head the empire. So he decided to make Dmitry a vassal of his.
In war time Tisiatski/Voevoda always became head of the empire but it wasn’t war time so almost all other Kniazes supported Dmitry. Yet their chance against the Horde was close to zero because their bodyguards were not trained to stand against the professionals. But Dmitry’s Goadfather sent him wooden cannons that were first used in a battle. It saved the situation. After the victory. Before the battle the world empire was split for 3 Hordes – the White of Dmitry, the Golden of the Riazan kniazez and the Blue (Osman) of the Chernigov-Tver. But after the battle it was all of the White Horde so they began to leave their marks all over the world. Kosovo and Angora battles were part of that civil war inside the Horde. You too know many of the Whites’ toponymal but you do not pay them attention. During the disaster/Smuta period of 1359-1415 the European colonies stopped to pay taxes and to obey. So they were reconquered in 1415-1448. The map of the Horde’s armies’ routes is still printed on the outside wall of the St.James Church in the “end of the land” in Santiago-de-Compostela where 9 swords are entering 9 states of Europe. For 3 decades there were no more problems with Europe. But then came the terrible year of 1485 reflected in the Holy Writ as Apocalypses … After that Europeans never stopped to panicly fear the Russians but it's another story already.
All Russian sources are more or less correct in describing the battle so you can use even Wikipedia. But there are several important details that they do not describe right:
1/ Golden Horde had nothing to do with the Mongols who learned about their world empire only in 1936 from Stalin’s “History of the USSR”. Not a slightest sign of their presence on the Russian soil was found.
2/ Golden Horde was the professional army of the Great Horde led by the Kniazia/Khans Riazanskie (князья Рязанские) headed by Othodoc Cristian Ivan Bilianinov called Mamay.
3/ It was a result of the Smuta Time (1359-1415) that started soon after the death of the Calif (top of the empire and the church) of the Great Tartaria/Horde known in the west as Bati Khan (Vatican) and Prester John. His Russian name was Ivan I Danilovic. He was younger brother Of Georgy Danilovic aka St.George aka Георгий Победоносец aka Gengis Khan.
4/ Mongol khan Tohtamish in fact was Dmitry Ivanovic Donskoy himself. In western mythology he is known as Emperor Constantine I Great. Rurikovici were a Russified Romey dynasty that flew here after 1204 when the Russian horde avenged for the Savior. Other Rameys flew to Eorope and Africa. Angelos Dynasty settled in England and they still rule this country.
5/ As if Russia payed them the taxes for another 101 years before Mehmet II died in Istanbul.
Vatican library has underground corridors 8 km long and the most secret archives are in the end of the labyrinth. To reach there one needs permittion from the Pope himself. Russian do work there but like anybody else they are not allowed to the oldest archives. The ones that were brought here in 1448 by the future Pope Nicolas V. He ran from Constantinople when it became evident that the city is to fall. He brought about 2300 books of the history of the Byzantine since the Egyptian period of the 1-st Rome in Alexandria. Also he brought the gold of the empire that was later used to provoke the Europeans against the Great Horde. Yet you must understand that the emperors of both then Byzantine and then Horde/Tartaria were close relatives. Both belonged to the same Ruricovici Dynasty. As well as the Sultans who were Kniazia Tverskie branch. Looks like the Niemanici were part of the last ones. As for Vatican library it has security better than in Fortnox because it’s the real history of the mankind there. Here the famous library of Ivan Grozny is also expected to be. It was stolen in 1613 during the occupation of Moscow by the Europeans who in fact were also Russians. Those were Rurikovici appointed to watch after the European colonies but who wanted to become independent from the Horde. They knew everybody inside the Horde and knew how the state machine worked. It took them some 60 years to seize power.
Each time you describe Fomenko’s version of history you deliberately or not misinterpret it to the absurd level. Fomenko’s idea is that the real history was 1052 years shorter that what was appointed in 1572. This fake millennium was to be filled with something so real episodes of the mediaeval history were implemented to the fake ancient history. If you really doubt it we can go to the details but please don’t tell us that there was no mediaeval Egypt, Rome ect. There all were but different from what we are told. Say there were 2 mediaeval Romes one (N2) in Istanbul and the other (N3) in Veliki Novgorod aka Habsburg. But about Solomon you’re right - his lifetime name was Suleiman the Magnificent. Both were kings and both were very rich because of their mines ect. As you know there’s no gold in the ME while sault was almost as expensive as gold and it was the monopoly of Suleiman. Both names are Slavic and can be interpreted only as Saltman. Word Mongols was a misinterpreted Greek word Megaleon = Great while Tatar was a misprinted Russian word Tartar so Great Tartaria became Mongol-Tataria. As such it was first mentioned in Sinopsis book written in 1674 in Kiev by a Jesuit mocking for an Orthodox. Before that book Russians heard nothing about the Mongols. Russia ruled the world as the result of the victory in the Trojan aka Gothic war that started in 1185 in Istanbul and ended in 1340 in Europe.
After the Golden Horde was destroyed in 1380 on Kulikovo Field the White Horde aka Albanians became dominant in the world.
(rote, 28 August 2016 10:14)
Can you recommend a reliable source that i can dip in and verify your statement? I am being polite!
@ Rote If most of the most important documents are held in Vatican and you think they prove this Fomenko is right, then why don't Russian historians ask Pope to let them study the Vatican archives? How many Russian historians agree with Fomenko? Because in my opinion you risk to become like Jehovai witnesses if you go on with these nice theories and people are not accusing only you here but also your president Mr. Putin for these new theories. Anyway I had this very nice chat with each of you and wish you both a great week!
Leonidas I think you still make confusion between hellenistic civilization and greek ethnicity. In the middle ages there was not such a thing as a greek nation, albanian nation or a serb nation and Byzantine empire was a multiethnic empire indeed. It remained multiethnic even under Ottomans who considered muslim Albanians as Turks, orthodoxes as Greeks and catholics as latins. So "greek" in the middle ages meant somebody who had embraced orthodoxy and hellenistic culture but that somebody could have been a greek, albanian, russian, serb, etc. This is big difference. With regard to WWII reparations I think it is insane to ask today for something that Greece could have asked in 1946. If this is normal then why don't we sit down and see that not all Chams were criminals and there was a batalion of partizan Chams also but Greece seized all their properties. I don't know nothing about this amnesty you talked about but you replied as a real "greek"!
After the Golden Horde was destroyed in 1380 on Kulikovo Field the White Horde aka Albanians became dominant in the world.
(rote, 28 August 2016 10:14)
rote,
I think I can safely say both Albanians and Serbs are rolling on the floor laughing at your ridiculous statement above. This is probably the only time that they will agree on anything. Additionally, I would even bet Leonidas would agree with them.
Greek : If one assumes that the Byzatine empire started fom 330 AD by Constantine I …
In 330 (= 1380-82 according to the New Chronology of Fomenko) Russian Great Kniaz/Khan Dmitry I Ivanovic (Donskoy) moved his religious capitol back to Jerusalem aka Tsargrad. Since 1261 it was controlled by the friendly Nicaean Dynasty. He took there his Greek Patriarch and ruled the empire from there. Then capitol of Vladimir (Poses The World) city was built and named as the capitol of the world. So the Great Horde had two capitols now.
Kniaz Dmitry took the upper hand in the severe battle on the Kulikovo Field (1380) where the so called First Christians were destroyed and declared as Pagans. They were prosecuted by the winner Apostolic Christians despite both sides belonged to the ruling Rurikovici Dynasty of the Horde/Tartaria. Pagans were led by the Kniazia Riazanskie also known as the Golden Horde and the and the Cherkassy Mamelukes. Their commander Mamay (Ivan Belianinov) ran to Crimea but was arrested and betrayed by the Russian Alans.
Anyways Dmitry moved to Tsargrad and called himself Constantine I the Great. But after 9 years he was killed on Kosovo Field as Murat I. His son Vasily I (Bayased I) continued the job before he was killed by Tamerlane. Unlike his wife this one did not belong to the Rurikovici so he was only a Voevoda/Amir. In 1453 Russian Kniaz Mehmet II of the Tverskie Dynasty seized Constantinople and called it STAN BULGAR = PLACE OF VOLGA PEOPLE.
Your folks’ pathetic, indoctrinated paranoia is freakin’ hilarious to anyone with higher than a 2nd Grade education.
(Leonidas, 27 August 2016 13:50)
Thanks for the complements and tell me please how could skillful sailors and fishers develop arms, technologies and strategy of seizing vast territories several thousand kilometers away from the closest sea? And what for did they need the lands that had zero value before middle ages? How could they secure their supply routes through the hostile lands inhabited by population exceeding yours many times? How could Alexander accumulate a 150 000 strong army if Greeks were dispersed along the Mediterranean and the Russian Sea also known as the Black one? Did they leave any Greek marks in the DNA of the Asian people like the Russian Horde did? Or have they left any other footprints or fingerprints in the region? How come that a man whose family name was Makedonski could be a French or an Arab or a Greek? Such are the questions that remain hanging in the air concerning every item of the ancient Greece. How come that the old Greek is close not to the mediaeval but to the modern one? Ect. ect. Some people’s glory was stolen and granted to others – that’s what drives me mad …
@ Leonidas
if we have to assume that eastern roman empire was greek empire,just bc the official language was greek or close to greek(bc today that language you lern only in university),then by the same token we can say that the empire of today, the eu, is english empire ,just bc the official language is English. is this what u basically saying ?
about them sources that u bring to back up your claim,the same nr of sources can be brought up to back up illyrian-albanian continuity.
"Kosova"*** will never join the UN. It has already been blocked by Russia and China indefinitely.
(Zoran, 27 August 2016 18:36)
You might want to illuminate readers of these forums when did Russia and China block "Kosova"***'s application for UN membership! It sounds like you have some news that few other people, if any, are aware of.
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Putin has mentioned that he will stand by the Serbian people regardless of what the politician say.
(Zoran, 27 August 2016 18:36)
Of course, Putin (who has not been elected by the Serbian people) knows better what the Serbian people want compared to those who have been elected by the Serbian people lol
Rote/Skendebeu
On close reading,your posting is so ridiculous that I feel silly for even dignifying it with an answer.However I've always had a bit of a soft spot for truly absurd revisions of history proposed by the greatest charlatans-inspired by their conscious desire to exaggerate the non-existent achievements of their own ethnic group by putting scorn on the achievements of others.Despite your obvious nonsense and despite of how annoying is to discuss their proponents with you I think it's fun to dip for a laugh and to serve as a reminder of how low can people like Fomenko can reach in making things up for their nationalist agenda.
Fomenko's pseudoscience is the most nonsensical rewriting of world history based on made up lies.Indeed,there were no ancient Greece,China,Rome,Egypt,Iran and all other ancient entities,there were no middle Ages and early modern history are the same events with the same people with different names.The Ottoman emperor Suleiman was in fact Solomon(not even D.Icke could claim that)and Palestine was in fact Western Germany.
Yes, that's right - here we really get down to it. Russia used to pretty much rule the world.Mongols and Tartars -a myth -they were all part of Greater Russia.Turks? Also Russians.Basically, Russia was the most powerful and most important country in the whole world for the whole of recorded history, until some nasty Germans put a foreign dynasty in power and lied about it all.
I think it's you that needs all the sympathy.
Look at your own history when you all of a sudden almost stopped to exist for centuries when you printed no coins and even stopped to die! Greeks were a SEA NATION so when we are told the Alexander was a Greek it only amuse me. His Asian invasion reminds the ethnic Mongols to build hundreds of ships to invade Japan. Where are all those 33 Alexandrias and how was the Army supplied through the hostile deserts? How can you explain multiple memories of his occupation of Western Siberia? There’s a long list of questions that you already failed to respond while I can put plenty of others.
Greeks were friendly to the Great Horde and they were the chronicles of the Horde plus they were top Brahmans of the Horde but the role they played was different from what we are told. Many dynasties like the Angels are exposed as Greeks though they weren’t as such. Same with the Komnins of Andronicus-Christ. Their family name sounds rather Russian so we cannot be sure they were Greeks. At least only Russians who avenged for Christ during the 4 Crusader Wars of 1185-1204. History you trust write that Crusaders never Jerusalem. The answer is evident – because Constantinople was the Bible Jerusalem. Same is the history of the Damascus Antiohian Church. As soon as they had a threat they ran to Constantinople but not to not existing (before 19 century) Jerusalem in Palestine ect.
In 1612 and in 1812 Moscow was seized and burnt by two all-European armies one called Polish and the other of Napoleon. They have stolen or destroyed most of the artefacts that could answer questions of today. Most of the important documents are held in Vatican and British libraries or in private collections. Many are not revealed because they contradict the western version of history imposed in 17-19 centuries. Yet internet opened us big opportunities to investigate and deliver the results directly to the users. Catholic/Protestant version was aimed against Russia and the Ottomans as the main parts of the Former Great Tartaria aka Great Horde whos main stronghold was Balkans. Unlike Russia that was a German colony in 1612-1812 the Turkish soil has never been occupied. They saved Byzantine libraries too so there's a good chance to sooner or later have the answers for who were the Greeks, the Albanians, the Serbs and many others. At least in Crimea of 16-17 centuries Greeks were those who had Greek belief including people of Turkic origin. Besides changing belief was not a crime as all of them including Islam and Judaism were versions of Christianity. Many answers will be given by the genetics and the genealogists yet I believe that the Shqiptars had no Caucasian roots but lived in the current region but name Albanian is artificial for you. After the Golden Horde was destroyed in 1380 on Kulikovo Field the White Horde aka Albanians became dominant in the world.
500-700 years ago many words had other meaning. Even the maps were upside down sometimes. First nations were formed in 17-18 centuries but most of them - in 19-20 centuries only. Simply because before that there was no need as nobility was desisive. For 400-500 years inside the Ottoman Porta there was no need for any of you to be organized in nations. Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians, Romanians and other Orthodox were united in the Milliet-i Rum where they enjoyed big autonomy rights. There were 3 others Milliets (Catholic, Jewish and the Muslim) where peoples had the same rights. The only exclusion was the Muslim Milliet that had tax advantages. So since 1453 there were no Greeks or Russians or Shqiptars but there was Mulliet-i Rum instead. The problem started to arise in 19 century when Balkan people made their biggest mistake to set free. It put an end for the peace on the peninsula. All ethnic groups met the problem of self-identification. Say Shqiptars who were dissolved in 3 Milliets had to find uniting points such as history, language and territory. So were all other peoples here. Yet the Ottoman period of the history is more or less clear as it was falsified little. As for the Byzantine period we know about it much less. First because their chronicles paid little attention to the colonies (fems) of the Byzantine including those on the Russian soil. Best descriptions were given by Niketas Choniates but you cannot trust them 100% too.
I was once the proydest of serbs.....my family died defending serbia intwo world wars....and even long before.......but what is left of serbia is the end result of 500 years of turkish occupation and decades of living under the illusion of yugoslavia......serbs will sell out all principles for a tap on the back...they hate each other.....they are not a people......they are just the nasty two faced stragglers of history.....serbia has no honour nor integrity
A couple of members of the UNSC have made it quite clear that Jeremic remains a good candidate and is very much in contention for the position in their view.
(NYC, 27 August 2016 20:07)
Really, would you care to share their names with us?
Under the terms of the 1953 London Agreement on German External Debts, Germany owes the Greek state 476 million reichmarks ($14 billion) that Greece was forced to give Nazi Germany in loans during its occupation. If 4% interest had been accrued over 66 years, the loan corresponds to $193 billion in today’s terms.The above doesn’t include the costs incurred on Greek infrastructure by the nazi regime.
Chams were World war II criminals who committed many crimes against Greek civilians in Epirus and were also involved in the deportation of Jews from Ioannina.They were lucky to escape with their lives and their crimes were rewarded with an amnesty from the communist regime in Albania. Greece asked Albania to nullify and cancel the presidential amnesty granted by the then Albanian communist regime to the Cham collaborators of the Nazis and send to Greek and European courts for their crimes but Albania refused to do so. End of matter.
Bible Jerusalem was Istanbul, Judea was region around Istanbul, Bethlehem was Sevastopol, Palestine was Crimea, Israel was Russia, Tavul was Tobolsk ect. I couldn’t say that the Savior was Russian. Maybe I said that Mary Virgin was Russian from Crimea and this is why Russia was always called HOUSE OF MOTHER MARY = ДОМ БОГОРОДИЦЫ. And I know nothing about Pope Gregory VII so I could only mention Pope Gregory XIII or maybe it was Nicolas V who ran from Constantinople in 1448 to establish Vatican and later the new Rome too. No other Popes I was mentioning here. I think you used some doping when you wrote this panic comment. As for the Jesus Christ you know that it was Greek version and it had nothing to do with his lifetime name. In Jerusalem (Yoros Castle in Istanbul) he was known as Andronicus I Komnin but he spent greater part of his life in Russia where he was known as Andrey Bogoliubsky. Jesus was seized during the riot of his Armenian (not Greek!) cousin Isaac II Angelos and tortured to death on Beikos Hill (see Tomb of Joshua ) near Jerusalem.
If one assumes that the Byzatine empire started fom 330 AD by Constantine I, then it is very safe to assume that its emperors and its ruling class continued to be of Roman extraction, at least for some time, while the majority of the people in it were not.
However a transformation was taking place within the empire that lasted up until the last quarter of the 6th with the empire being Hellenized and this proces was completed by the time of emperor Tiberios II in 578 and most certainly by the time of Maurice in 582. It was a result of the Hellenistic civilization that was predominant in the Eastern Medideranean and beyond, that came down the centuries after the death of Alexander the Great. By 578 not only its emperors but also the ruling class was speaking Greek as a first language in the empire, and had embraced the orthodox religion and Greek culture. From 578 you may assume that its emperors were of Greek extraction, or in the very least Hellenized if they were of different ancestry, like Armenian or Serbian.Therefore justifiably the Byzantine empire was considered the Greek empire of the Middle Ages.
If you disagree you can read through the sources I’ve quoted below researched and written by world historians and you can make up your own mind.
A couple of members of the UNSC have made it quite clear that he remains a good candidate and is very much in contention for the position in their view.It'll make a refreshing change from the usual limp-wristed buffoon that usually gets the job! Besides Jeremic seems very level-headed and would bring some well needed youthful opinion and vitality to this often ceremonial role.
@ Leonidas If you were an educated man you should know that greek language was used as the language of the Byzantine empire but that doesn't mean that the Bizant was greek. Rote asked a very good question but you fail to answer to him: what did "greek" mean in the middle ages? This is a simple question and even high school students in Albania know this! Also do you still think that Germany owes Greece reparations for WWII? What about Albanian Chams who were slaughtered and expelled from Greece during WWII? Reply in simple and direct way if you are a man!
This is funny because "Kosova"*** will never join the UN. It has already been blocked by Russia and China indefinitely. Putin has mentioned that he will stand by the Serbian people regardless of what the politician say.
You think Nikolic will ever get the chance to become kosovo president ? Never ..
Why always this drama ..this behaviour brings serbia no where .. just tensions that no one wants .. Kosovo is indipendent..
trying to block kosovo , you only will block your own way becoming EU . Balkan countries went through this in the 90s , USA is familiar with this , and knows very well how to deal with this..
.
The following writers disagree.A chance to educate yourself:
1.Aug.Heisenberg: "Byzantium is the christianised Roman state of the Greek nation (Staat und Gesellschaft des byzantinischen Reiches, Die Kultur der Gegenwart, s. 364)
2.Talbot Rice:"Byzantium has to be studied as a chapter of the long history of τhe Greek civilisation."
3: Ostrogorsky:"Byzantium, although it always remained loyal to the Roman political ideals, and traditions, it is now turning into a Medieval Greek state."(History of the Byzantine state,p.217)
4: Gyula Moravscik:He says that it is preferable to talk about Greekology rather than Byzantinology (Byzantion,Vol.25(1965) p. 291-301)
5. P.Lemerle:He writes about Greek middle ages First Byzantin humanism, p.52)
the "Hellenization of the Empire" p.71)and "Greek christianity" (p.279)
6: Karl Marx refers to the "Greek patriotism" of the Kings of Nickaia and he calls the emperors of Constantinople as Greek emperors(Article of New York Daily Tribune 12/8/1853 – London 29/7/1853)
7.Sture Linner: "The Byzantines were always conscious of their Greek past"(History of the Byzantine civilisation,p.219)
8:Kurt Weitzmann.He writes about "The Greek blood in the veins of the Byzantines"(Greek mythology in Byzantine Art,p.207)
9:N.David:The Byzantine empire "in 6th century was more Greek than Roman"(p.23)and that Byzantine civilisation is a Greek spiritual world (p.147in the evolution of the middle ages
No one of your neighbors likes you Serbia..... Balkan is tired of your shit ... With every ex Yugoslav countrie -same story with u ... Leave the people alone ...
"What really matters is continuation (e.g. culture, language, occasionally religion) which ensures the historical sense of an evolving community through time. In other words, modern Greeks have those features enabling them to look back to antiquity."
Leonidas
I imagine those features enabling you to look back to antiquity are callused from friction and
never being satisfied.
You(rote) ,on the other hand,have been engaged on a propaganda campaign of epic proportions trying to convince other posters of your cut & paste Fomenko's pseudo-history.Some of the claims are so ridiculous that are not even worth to scrutiny.Indeed how ridiculous it is for someone to claim that Jerusalem was in fact in Crimea or the assertion that Jesus was russian and the same person with Pope Gregory VII.Yet the biographies of the two men are totally different.Christ was executed in his thirties while Pope Gregory died of old age.Unless of course you're not a Christian and don't believe in crucifixion.The list of pseudo-history lies goes on and on...Your folks’ pathetic, indoctrinated paranoia is freakin’ hilarious to anyone with higher than a 2nd Grade education.
(Leonidas, 27 August 2016 13:50)
Well put Leonidas! Indeed, if rote believes in the psycho-babble of Fomenko, then he should also believe he is his own grandpa. Revisionism has become a cottage industry of Putin's Russia!
Jeremic as secretary-general would be a disgrace. He would end up weakening the UN, pitting UN bodies against one another as he did when he tried to pit the General Assembly against the ICTY because it was doing its job.. I am sure there are other episodes as well that prove his inadequacy, which have not come out in the media.
Will someone donate some tissues to Pristina? Alot of tears are falling. Jeremic in or out regardless.
Kosovo* can wait more than 10,20 or even 50 years and even then they will never legitimize their illegal dirty declaration of independence.
By then they would have lost support from U.S and E.U
On an average time frame of six months you won't see any posting of mine trying to convince other posters of my "ancient" past.In fact i am on record saying that no serious historian would ever claim that modern peoples are direct descendants of ancient peoples, at least in terms of DNA. What really matters is continuation (e.g. culture, language, occasionally religion) which ensures the historical sense of an evolving community through time. In other words, modern Greeks have those features enabling them to look back to antiquity.
You ,on the other hand,have been engaged on a propaganda campaign of epic proportions trying to convince other posters of your cut & paste Fomenko's pseudo-history.Some of the claims are so ridiculous that are not even worth to scrutiny.Indeed how ridiculous it is for someone to claim that Jerusalem was in fact in Crimea or the assertion that Jesus was russian and the same person with Pope Gregory VII.Yet the biographies of the two men are totally different.Christ was executed in his thirties while Pope Gregory died of old age.Unless of course you're not a Christian and don't believe in crucifixion.The list of pseudo-history lies goes on and on...Your folks’ pathetic, indoctrinated paranoia is freakin’ hilarious to anyone with higher than a 2nd Grade education.
nidas : spending your whole life staying true to a lie. PS Next time instead of using my name to post your nonsense
See I already do not use your name to post my nonsense! But I will stay “true to the lie” until someone proves that it is a lie. As you know your own attempts have failed and I know why. Because you’ve got used to look at the rest of the world from above and any arguments that Slavs were nothing worse kill you. It reminds me an episode in a Russian comedy film when an Anti-Semite learned that he was a Jew : “Mother tell me as a Russian to a Russian – am I a Jew?” You know that in the past all who brought bad news were killed. Rote was еру щту for many commenters here. Not only you but the Shqiptars and the Serbs too. None of you had your own history before 19 century as well as none of you had enjoyed your own statehood. Byzantine was not a Greek empire though the Greeks played a very big role there. Yet it was a cocktail with a very big Slavic and Armenian influence. So what is known as the Greek history was composed of 3 parts :
1/ Basic for the fake Italian Rome history written by the Benedictions and the Jesuits and the Dominicans (dominating khans) in 17 century.
2/ history of the “ancient” Greece sucked from the finger by the Oldenburgs in 19 century.
3/ Legends that were written for the First Christians of the Ruricovici Dynasty by the Greeks praising them as gods.
Who is to be considered as the Greeks is also an open issue.
I am from Syria and in war all peoples are raped, murdered and what not. Also I find only an idiot will believe the Albanians that is why in Kosovo there are 90% Albanians so if all of you were murdered why are there so many of you? Your people are fleeing Kosovo so fast exposing yourself as migrants from the middle east because Kosovo is no good for you. Maybe you should come from a place like Syria and experience what my people have. As much as Muslims from Syria all agree KOSOVO is SERBIA!
he won't make it past the Security Council Vote, because the West will veto him. He has no chance to be elected.
(observer, 26 August 2016 14:51)
Hey willi pfaff - You are so predictable. The real satisfaction here is that Jeremic gets under your skin. We remember you wrote that nothing good ever came from Serbia. You have no chance of being seen as credible.
Absolutely. Which means Albanians are protesting over nothing since it doesn't matter who becomes the Secretary General. Kosovo is still blocked by a coalition of states. Jeremic is irrelevant to Kosovo's inertia.
(the actual truth, 26 August 2016 19:14)
There are several Nato members in the UN that will veto Jeremic because of his proven incompetence.
Leonidas don't go crazy. Once I told you that in 95% cases I use rote nickname. If you want to know more in remaining 5% cases I sign RK or rote kapelle that in fact is the same. For conspiracy reasons RK comments are shorter and not that angry but in 95% cases I am rote. Write it on your ancient Greek nose!
Somebody To Love/ White Rabbit --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnP72uUt_pU
Even the Greeks are opposed to Jeremic for UN S.G.
(Leonidas, 26 August 2016 15:18)
Don't judge strict prisoners of war ...
(rote, 26 August 2016 18:2
Keep rolling your eyes,you may find a brain there.Worse than telling a lie is spending your whole life staying true to a lie.
PS Next time instead of using my name to post your nonsense use one of the several names you've been using on this side to convince people of your conspiracy theories.
The UN Secretary-General is more secretary than general and can do nothing to either help or prevent a country from becoming a UN member, regardless of whether it is Vuk or somebody else in that position.
(icj1, 26 August 2016 16:02)
Absolutely. Which means Albanians are protesting over nothing since it doesn't matter who becomes the Secretary General. Kosovo is still blocked by a coalition of states. Jeremic is irrelevant to Kosovo's inertia.
The UN was weak and unable to prevent Serbia from being bombed in 1999 and in the end supported the actions of NATO. Does anyone think it would have turned out differently if Jeremic was UN S.G. at the time.
Danas is reporting non-sense!
(icj1, 26 August 2016 16:02)
---
icj1, the CB of B92, is a leader in reporting non-sense. icj1's nonsensical diagnosis of an entire ethnic group with a neurological disorder betrays common sense and decency.
"This has been reported on Friday by the Belgrade-based newspaper Danas.
Organizers said they were calling the protests because Kosovo's admission to the UN would be blocked "for the next ten years" should Jeremic succeed Ban Ki-moon at the helm of the world organization."
Danas is reporting non-sense! The UN Secretary-General is more secretary than general and can do nothing to either help or prevent a country from becoming a UN member, regardless of whether it is Vuk or somebody else in that position.
Organizers said they were calling the protests because Kosovo's admission to the UN would be blocked "for the next ten years" should Jeremic succeed Ban Ki-moon at the helm of the world organization.
Well if it makes them feel better, they wont join the UN even if Jeremic isn't elected. And according to B92's resident political expert, icj1 says that the reason why "kosovo"* doesn't have a seat at the UN is because it hasn't applied and doesn't want to. He doesn't think it's beneath the standards of the KLA to join such an organization. Otherwise, they would have joined a long time ago.
Even if Jeremic isn't elected, Kosovo will still be out of the UN for the next 10 years. They forget the Security Council. Albanians are slow learners.
Even if Jeremic isn't elected, Kosovo will still be out of the UN for the next 10 years. They forget the Security Council. Albanians are slow learners.
Organizers said they were calling the protests because Kosovo's admission to the UN would be blocked "for the next ten years" should Jeremic succeed Ban Ki-moon at the helm of the world organization.
Well if it makes them feel better, they wont join the UN even if Jeremic isn't elected. And according to B92's resident political expert, icj1 says that the reason why "kosovo"* doesn't have a seat at the UN is because it hasn't applied and doesn't want to. He doesn't think it's beneath the standards of the KLA to join such an organization. Otherwise, they would have joined a long time ago.
Danas is reporting non-sense!
(icj1, 26 August 2016 16:02)
---
icj1, the CB of B92, is a leader in reporting non-sense. icj1's nonsensical diagnosis of an entire ethnic group with a neurological disorder betrays common sense and decency.
The UN Secretary-General is more secretary than general and can do nothing to either help or prevent a country from becoming a UN member, regardless of whether it is Vuk or somebody else in that position.
(icj1, 26 August 2016 16:02)
Absolutely. Which means Albanians are protesting over nothing since it doesn't matter who becomes the Secretary General. Kosovo is still blocked by a coalition of states. Jeremic is irrelevant to Kosovo's inertia.
I am from Syria and in war all peoples are raped, murdered and what not. Also I find only an idiot will believe the Albanians that is why in Kosovo there are 90% Albanians so if all of you were murdered why are there so many of you? Your people are fleeing Kosovo so fast exposing yourself as migrants from the middle east because Kosovo is no good for you. Maybe you should come from a place like Syria and experience what my people have. As much as Muslims from Syria all agree KOSOVO is SERBIA!
This is funny because "Kosova"*** will never join the UN. It has already been blocked by Russia and China indefinitely. Putin has mentioned that he will stand by the Serbian people regardless of what the politician say.
Even the Greeks are opposed to Jeremic for UN S.G.
(Leonidas, 26 August 2016 15:18)
Don't judge strict prisoners of war ...
(rote, 26 August 2016 18:2
Keep rolling your eyes,you may find a brain there.Worse than telling a lie is spending your whole life staying true to a lie.
PS Next time instead of using my name to post your nonsense use one of the several names you've been using on this side to convince people of your conspiracy theories.
he won't make it past the Security Council Vote, because the West will veto him. He has no chance to be elected.
(observer, 26 August 2016 14:51)
Hey willi pfaff - You are so predictable. The real satisfaction here is that Jeremic gets under your skin. We remember you wrote that nothing good ever came from Serbia. You have no chance of being seen as credible.
On an average time frame of six months you won't see any posting of mine trying to convince other posters of my "ancient" past.In fact i am on record saying that no serious historian would ever claim that modern peoples are direct descendants of ancient peoples, at least in terms of DNA. What really matters is continuation (e.g. culture, language, occasionally religion) which ensures the historical sense of an evolving community through time. In other words, modern Greeks have those features enabling them to look back to antiquity.
You ,on the other hand,have been engaged on a propaganda campaign of epic proportions trying to convince other posters of your cut & paste Fomenko's pseudo-history.Some of the claims are so ridiculous that are not even worth to scrutiny.Indeed how ridiculous it is for someone to claim that Jerusalem was in fact in Crimea or the assertion that Jesus was russian and the same person with Pope Gregory VII.Yet the biographies of the two men are totally different.Christ was executed in his thirties while Pope Gregory died of old age.Unless of course you're not a Christian and don't believe in crucifixion.The list of pseudo-history lies goes on and on...Your folks’ pathetic, indoctrinated paranoia is freakin’ hilarious to anyone with higher than a 2nd Grade education.
A couple of members of the UNSC have made it quite clear that he remains a good candidate and is very much in contention for the position in their view.It'll make a refreshing change from the usual limp-wristed buffoon that usually gets the job! Besides Jeremic seems very level-headed and would bring some well needed youthful opinion and vitality to this often ceremonial role.
"This has been reported on Friday by the Belgrade-based newspaper Danas.
Organizers said they were calling the protests because Kosovo's admission to the UN would be blocked "for the next ten years" should Jeremic succeed Ban Ki-moon at the helm of the world organization."
Danas is reporting non-sense! The UN Secretary-General is more secretary than general and can do nothing to either help or prevent a country from becoming a UN member, regardless of whether it is Vuk or somebody else in that position.
The UN was weak and unable to prevent Serbia from being bombed in 1999 and in the end supported the actions of NATO. Does anyone think it would have turned out differently if Jeremic was UN S.G. at the time.
Will someone donate some tissues to Pristina? Alot of tears are falling. Jeremic in or out regardless.
Kosovo* can wait more than 10,20 or even 50 years and even then they will never legitimize their illegal dirty declaration of independence.
By then they would have lost support from U.S and E.U
You(rote) ,on the other hand,have been engaged on a propaganda campaign of epic proportions trying to convince other posters of your cut & paste Fomenko's pseudo-history.Some of the claims are so ridiculous that are not even worth to scrutiny.Indeed how ridiculous it is for someone to claim that Jerusalem was in fact in Crimea or the assertion that Jesus was russian and the same person with Pope Gregory VII.Yet the biographies of the two men are totally different.Christ was executed in his thirties while Pope Gregory died of old age.Unless of course you're not a Christian and don't believe in crucifixion.The list of pseudo-history lies goes on and on...Your folks’ pathetic, indoctrinated paranoia is freakin’ hilarious to anyone with higher than a 2nd Grade education.
(Leonidas, 27 August 2016 13:50)
Well put Leonidas! Indeed, if rote believes in the psycho-babble of Fomenko, then he should also believe he is his own grandpa. Revisionism has become a cottage industry of Putin's Russia!
The following writers disagree.A chance to educate yourself:
1.Aug.Heisenberg: "Byzantium is the christianised Roman state of the Greek nation (Staat und Gesellschaft des byzantinischen Reiches, Die Kultur der Gegenwart, s. 364)
2.Talbot Rice:"Byzantium has to be studied as a chapter of the long history of τhe Greek civilisation."
3: Ostrogorsky:"Byzantium, although it always remained loyal to the Roman political ideals, and traditions, it is now turning into a Medieval Greek state."(History of the Byzantine state,p.217)
4: Gyula Moravscik:He says that it is preferable to talk about Greekology rather than Byzantinology (Byzantion,Vol.25(1965) p. 291-301)
5. P.Lemerle:He writes about Greek middle ages First Byzantin humanism, p.52)
the "Hellenization of the Empire" p.71)and "Greek christianity" (p.279)
6: Karl Marx refers to the "Greek patriotism" of the Kings of Nickaia and he calls the emperors of Constantinople as Greek emperors(Article of New York Daily Tribune 12/8/1853 – London 29/7/1853)
7.Sture Linner: "The Byzantines were always conscious of their Greek past"(History of the Byzantine civilisation,p.219)
8:Kurt Weitzmann.He writes about "The Greek blood in the veins of the Byzantines"(Greek mythology in Byzantine Art,p.207)
9:N.David:The Byzantine empire "in 6th century was more Greek than Roman"(p.23)and that Byzantine civilisation is a Greek spiritual world (p.147in the evolution of the middle ages
@ Leonidas If you were an educated man you should know that greek language was used as the language of the Byzantine empire but that doesn't mean that the Bizant was greek. Rote asked a very good question but you fail to answer to him: what did "greek" mean in the middle ages? This is a simple question and even high school students in Albania know this! Also do you still think that Germany owes Greece reparations for WWII? What about Albanian Chams who were slaughtered and expelled from Greece during WWII? Reply in simple and direct way if you are a man!
Absolutely. Which means Albanians are protesting over nothing since it doesn't matter who becomes the Secretary General. Kosovo is still blocked by a coalition of states. Jeremic is irrelevant to Kosovo's inertia.
(the actual truth, 26 August 2016 19:14)
There are several Nato members in the UN that will veto Jeremic because of his proven incompetence.
Leonidas don't go crazy. Once I told you that in 95% cases I use rote nickname. If you want to know more in remaining 5% cases I sign RK or rote kapelle that in fact is the same. For conspiracy reasons RK comments are shorter and not that angry but in 95% cases I am rote. Write it on your ancient Greek nose!
Somebody To Love/ White Rabbit --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnP72uUt_pU
You think Nikolic will ever get the chance to become kosovo president ? Never ..
Why always this drama ..this behaviour brings serbia no where .. just tensions that no one wants .. Kosovo is indipendent..
trying to block kosovo , you only will block your own way becoming EU . Balkan countries went through this in the 90s , USA is familiar with this , and knows very well how to deal with this..
.
"What really matters is continuation (e.g. culture, language, occasionally religion) which ensures the historical sense of an evolving community through time. In other words, modern Greeks have those features enabling them to look back to antiquity."
Leonidas
I imagine those features enabling you to look back to antiquity are callused from friction and
never being satisfied.
Under the terms of the 1953 London Agreement on German External Debts, Germany owes the Greek state 476 million reichmarks ($14 billion) that Greece was forced to give Nazi Germany in loans during its occupation. If 4% interest had been accrued over 66 years, the loan corresponds to $193 billion in today’s terms.The above doesn’t include the costs incurred on Greek infrastructure by the nazi regime.
Chams were World war II criminals who committed many crimes against Greek civilians in Epirus and were also involved in the deportation of Jews from Ioannina.They were lucky to escape with their lives and their crimes were rewarded with an amnesty from the communist regime in Albania. Greece asked Albania to nullify and cancel the presidential amnesty granted by the then Albanian communist regime to the Cham collaborators of the Nazis and send to Greek and European courts for their crimes but Albania refused to do so. End of matter.
After the Golden Horde was destroyed in 1380 on Kulikovo Field the White Horde aka Albanians became dominant in the world.
(rote, 28 August 2016 10:14)
rote,
I think I can safely say both Albanians and Serbs are rolling on the floor laughing at your ridiculous statement above. This is probably the only time that they will agree on anything. Additionally, I would even bet Leonidas would agree with them.
No one of your neighbors likes you Serbia..... Balkan is tired of your shit ... With every ex Yugoslav countrie -same story with u ... Leave the people alone ...
I was once the proydest of serbs.....my family died defending serbia intwo world wars....and even long before.......but what is left of serbia is the end result of 500 years of turkish occupation and decades of living under the illusion of yugoslavia......serbs will sell out all principles for a tap on the back...they hate each other.....they are not a people......they are just the nasty two faced stragglers of history.....serbia has no honour nor integrity
Jeremic as secretary-general would be a disgrace. He would end up weakening the UN, pitting UN bodies against one another as he did when he tried to pit the General Assembly against the ICTY because it was doing its job.. I am sure there are other episodes as well that prove his inadequacy, which have not come out in the media.
If one assumes that the Byzatine empire started fom 330 AD by Constantine I, then it is very safe to assume that its emperors and its ruling class continued to be of Roman extraction, at least for some time, while the majority of the people in it were not.
However a transformation was taking place within the empire that lasted up until the last quarter of the 6th with the empire being Hellenized and this proces was completed by the time of emperor Tiberios II in 578 and most certainly by the time of Maurice in 582. It was a result of the Hellenistic civilization that was predominant in the Eastern Medideranean and beyond, that came down the centuries after the death of Alexander the Great. By 578 not only its emperors but also the ruling class was speaking Greek as a first language in the empire, and had embraced the orthodox religion and Greek culture. From 578 you may assume that its emperors were of Greek extraction, or in the very least Hellenized if they were of different ancestry, like Armenian or Serbian.Therefore justifiably the Byzantine empire was considered the Greek empire of the Middle Ages.
If you disagree you can read through the sources I’ve quoted below researched and written by world historians and you can make up your own mind.
Rote/Skendebeu
On close reading,your posting is so ridiculous that I feel silly for even dignifying it with an answer.However I've always had a bit of a soft spot for truly absurd revisions of history proposed by the greatest charlatans-inspired by their conscious desire to exaggerate the non-existent achievements of their own ethnic group by putting scorn on the achievements of others.Despite your obvious nonsense and despite of how annoying is to discuss their proponents with you I think it's fun to dip for a laugh and to serve as a reminder of how low can people like Fomenko can reach in making things up for their nationalist agenda.
Fomenko's pseudoscience is the most nonsensical rewriting of world history based on made up lies.Indeed,there were no ancient Greece,China,Rome,Egypt,Iran and all other ancient entities,there were no middle Ages and early modern history are the same events with the same people with different names.The Ottoman emperor Suleiman was in fact Solomon(not even D.Icke could claim that)and Palestine was in fact Western Germany.
Yes, that's right - here we really get down to it. Russia used to pretty much rule the world.Mongols and Tartars -a myth -they were all part of Greater Russia.Turks? Also Russians.Basically, Russia was the most powerful and most important country in the whole world for the whole of recorded history, until some nasty Germans put a foreign dynasty in power and lied about it all.
I think it's you that needs all the sympathy.
@ Leonidas
if we have to assume that eastern roman empire was greek empire,just bc the official language was greek or close to greek(bc today that language you lern only in university),then by the same token we can say that the empire of today, the eu, is english empire ,just bc the official language is English. is this what u basically saying ?
about them sources that u bring to back up your claim,the same nr of sources can be brought up to back up illyrian-albanian continuity.
@ Rote If most of the most important documents are held in Vatican and you think they prove this Fomenko is right, then why don't Russian historians ask Pope to let them study the Vatican archives? How many Russian historians agree with Fomenko? Because in my opinion you risk to become like Jehovai witnesses if you go on with these nice theories and people are not accusing only you here but also your president Mr. Putin for these new theories. Anyway I had this very nice chat with each of you and wish you both a great week!
After the Golden Horde was destroyed in 1380 on Kulikovo Field the White Horde aka Albanians became dominant in the world.
(rote, 28 August 2016 10:14)
Can you recommend a reliable source that i can dip in and verify your statement? I am being polite!
nidas : spending your whole life staying true to a lie. PS Next time instead of using my name to post your nonsense
See I already do not use your name to post my nonsense! But I will stay “true to the lie” until someone proves that it is a lie. As you know your own attempts have failed and I know why. Because you’ve got used to look at the rest of the world from above and any arguments that Slavs were nothing worse kill you. It reminds me an episode in a Russian comedy film when an Anti-Semite learned that he was a Jew : “Mother tell me as a Russian to a Russian – am I a Jew?” You know that in the past all who brought bad news were killed. Rote was еру щту for many commenters here. Not only you but the Shqiptars and the Serbs too. None of you had your own history before 19 century as well as none of you had enjoyed your own statehood. Byzantine was not a Greek empire though the Greeks played a very big role there. Yet it was a cocktail with a very big Slavic and Armenian influence. So what is known as the Greek history was composed of 3 parts :
1/ Basic for the fake Italian Rome history written by the Benedictions and the Jesuits and the Dominicans (dominating khans) in 17 century.
2/ history of the “ancient” Greece sucked from the finger by the Oldenburgs in 19 century.
3/ Legends that were written for the First Christians of the Ruricovici Dynasty by the Greeks praising them as gods.
Who is to be considered as the Greeks is also an open issue.
Bible Jerusalem was Istanbul, Judea was region around Istanbul, Bethlehem was Sevastopol, Palestine was Crimea, Israel was Russia, Tavul was Tobolsk ect. I couldn’t say that the Savior was Russian. Maybe I said that Mary Virgin was Russian from Crimea and this is why Russia was always called HOUSE OF MOTHER MARY = ДОМ БОГОРОДИЦЫ. And I know nothing about Pope Gregory VII so I could only mention Pope Gregory XIII or maybe it was Nicolas V who ran from Constantinople in 1448 to establish Vatican and later the new Rome too. No other Popes I was mentioning here. I think you used some doping when you wrote this panic comment. As for the Jesus Christ you know that it was Greek version and it had nothing to do with his lifetime name. In Jerusalem (Yoros Castle in Istanbul) he was known as Andronicus I Komnin but he spent greater part of his life in Russia where he was known as Andrey Bogoliubsky. Jesus was seized during the riot of his Armenian (not Greek!) cousin Isaac II Angelos and tortured to death on Beikos Hill (see Tomb of Joshua ) near Jerusalem.
A couple of members of the UNSC have made it quite clear that Jeremic remains a good candidate and is very much in contention for the position in their view.
(NYC, 27 August 2016 20:07)
Really, would you care to share their names with us?
Leonidas I think you still make confusion between hellenistic civilization and greek ethnicity. In the middle ages there was not such a thing as a greek nation, albanian nation or a serb nation and Byzantine empire was a multiethnic empire indeed. It remained multiethnic even under Ottomans who considered muslim Albanians as Turks, orthodoxes as Greeks and catholics as latins. So "greek" in the middle ages meant somebody who had embraced orthodoxy and hellenistic culture but that somebody could have been a greek, albanian, russian, serb, etc. This is big difference. With regard to WWII reparations I think it is insane to ask today for something that Greece could have asked in 1946. If this is normal then why don't we sit down and see that not all Chams were criminals and there was a batalion of partizan Chams also but Greece seized all their properties. I don't know nothing about this amnesty you talked about but you replied as a real "greek"!
Your folks’ pathetic, indoctrinated paranoia is freakin’ hilarious to anyone with higher than a 2nd Grade education.
(Leonidas, 27 August 2016 13:50)
Thanks for the complements and tell me please how could skillful sailors and fishers develop arms, technologies and strategy of seizing vast territories several thousand kilometers away from the closest sea? And what for did they need the lands that had zero value before middle ages? How could they secure their supply routes through the hostile lands inhabited by population exceeding yours many times? How could Alexander accumulate a 150 000 strong army if Greeks were dispersed along the Mediterranean and the Russian Sea also known as the Black one? Did they leave any Greek marks in the DNA of the Asian people like the Russian Horde did? Or have they left any other footprints or fingerprints in the region? How come that a man whose family name was Makedonski could be a French or an Arab or a Greek? Such are the questions that remain hanging in the air concerning every item of the ancient Greece. How come that the old Greek is close not to the mediaeval but to the modern one? Ect. ect. Some people’s glory was stolen and granted to others – that’s what drives me mad …
Each time you describe Fomenko’s version of history you deliberately or not misinterpret it to the absurd level. Fomenko’s idea is that the real history was 1052 years shorter that what was appointed in 1572. This fake millennium was to be filled with something so real episodes of the mediaeval history were implemented to the fake ancient history. If you really doubt it we can go to the details but please don’t tell us that there was no mediaeval Egypt, Rome ect. There all were but different from what we are told. Say there were 2 mediaeval Romes one (N2) in Istanbul and the other (N3) in Veliki Novgorod aka Habsburg. But about Solomon you’re right - his lifetime name was Suleiman the Magnificent. Both were kings and both were very rich because of their mines ect. As you know there’s no gold in the ME while sault was almost as expensive as gold and it was the monopoly of Suleiman. Both names are Slavic and can be interpreted only as Saltman. Word Mongols was a misinterpreted Greek word Megaleon = Great while Tatar was a misprinted Russian word Tartar so Great Tartaria became Mongol-Tataria. As such it was first mentioned in Sinopsis book written in 1674 in Kiev by a Jesuit mocking for an Orthodox. Before that book Russians heard nothing about the Mongols. Russia ruled the world as the result of the victory in the Trojan aka Gothic war that started in 1185 in Istanbul and ended in 1340 in Europe.
Rotes makes very good questions and is really hard for Leonidas to answer these questions and he wants reliable sources! One reliable source that comes to my mind is the Greek Revolution whose major commanders were all Arvanit or Whites. Now how come that these "whites" became so important if we are told that they were just new immigrants in Greece? How come that these Whites showed up after more than 10 centuries during which nobody mentioned them?
In 1612 and in 1812 Moscow was seized and burnt by two all-European armies one called Polish and the other of Napoleon. They have stolen or destroyed most of the artefacts that could answer questions of today. Most of the important documents are held in Vatican and British libraries or in private collections. Many are not revealed because they contradict the western version of history imposed in 17-19 centuries. Yet internet opened us big opportunities to investigate and deliver the results directly to the users. Catholic/Protestant version was aimed against Russia and the Ottomans as the main parts of the Former Great Tartaria aka Great Horde whos main stronghold was Balkans. Unlike Russia that was a German colony in 1612-1812 the Turkish soil has never been occupied. They saved Byzantine libraries too so there's a good chance to sooner or later have the answers for who were the Greeks, the Albanians, the Serbs and many others. At least in Crimea of 16-17 centuries Greeks were those who had Greek belief including people of Turkic origin. Besides changing belief was not a crime as all of them including Islam and Judaism were versions of Christianity. Many answers will be given by the genetics and the genealogists yet I believe that the Shqiptars had no Caucasian roots but lived in the current region but name Albanian is artificial for you. After the Golden Horde was destroyed in 1380 on Kulikovo Field the White Horde aka Albanians became dominant in the world.
"Kosova"*** will never join the UN. It has already been blocked by Russia and China indefinitely.
(Zoran, 27 August 2016 18:36)
You might want to illuminate readers of these forums when did Russia and China block "Kosova"***'s application for UN membership! It sounds like you have some news that few other people, if any, are aware of.
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Putin has mentioned that he will stand by the Serbian people regardless of what the politician say.
(Zoran, 27 August 2016 18:36)
Of course, Putin (who has not been elected by the Serbian people) knows better what the Serbian people want compared to those who have been elected by the Serbian people lol
Leonidas : I think you’ve been brainwashed by Dan Brown’s books
I am a too big boy to be brainwashed that easy. Fomenko only gave me the main idea and now I can see things by myself. Besides he almost stopped his research in 17 century as he believes that after 1650 the history is more or less clear. But I don’t think so and I believe that even the 19 century was falsified in a great degree. We can talk about it if you like. You take it so close because Fomenko’s version touches history of Greece but his idea is that not only your history but any other is false. Russian, American or Chinese are nothing better and we can talk about it too. All new states meet the same problem of self-identification. It’s happening in Ukraine, Byelorussia, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Balkans and any other new states who try to find a reason why they must exist. 150 years ago should you ask peoples of north of Iran, Azerbaijan, Crimea or 5 states of Central Asia about their origin they would all say that they are Tatars. So we have to decode not only the real history but also the meaning of the words in the past. So were the Indians. How could it be that peoples in 3 faraway regions of the world could have the same name? Very simple is the answer – because it was a Russian word “inde” = far away = somewhere there. So peoples who inhabited the far away regions were called Indians here. See --- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Archive_of_the_Indies
Just think about the Mongols! In 21 century they still can do nothing but serve their cattle while to seize the world they needed some industry to make arms and supply the army. But before 20 century they even had no grammar to connect parts of the empire and accept taxes. Fomenko believes that their current name is derived from the Greek “Megaleon”. Look at the current Mongols and at the mediaeval ones - those are different peoples ethnically, culturally and in every other aspect!
See the “Mongol” emperors of Asia painted by Europeans http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b55003867c/f173.planchecontact
See also how “Arab” Mavrs (infact Russian Cossacks) looked like in Spain --- http://iskatel.info/tavryi-v-ispanii.html
See how the old maps looked like --- http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00generallinks/mallet/
Long ago I saw two Greeks trying to explain themselves. It was very funny but they failed as one was from Athens and the other from Tbilisi. The last one spoke almost Turkic but believed that it was Greek! We know little about who are and such a scene could happen to two Russians in the old times if they were from far away regions. Here if you live like a Russian and if you are an Orthodox you can say that you are a Russian. No matter if you are a Jew or a Caucasian. So words could have other meaning in the past. But your theory is concrete and does not suppose any changes or doubts.
After the Balkans were set free in 19-20 centuries they all faced problems not only with the borders but with ethnical and cultural sel-identification. And it was quite natural because the Ottomans as part of the former Mongol-Tatar Empire was built like Russia. Both were multinational and multi-religious empires. So all Orthodox were united in one Milleti Rum = People of Rome (!) headed by Greek Patriarchs from Fanar. So there were no conflicts neither inside the milliet nor with the 3 others (Catholic, Jewish and Muslim). Shqiptars were present in 3 out of 4 milliets and they too had no problems because the Muslim, Catholics and the Orthodox were part of the same former religion. But after the Ottomans the Shqiptars had to find their place between the Slavs and the Greeks who by that time already had their versions of the history. They knew nothing about the happlogroups that made them close relatives of the Greeks. Besides the Greeks were already proud of their newly obtained fame and did not mean to share it with anyone else. Meanwhile before 1821 the Greeks (current meaning) had never enjoyed a statehood of their own. Their ancestors played significant roles in many states of the past but seems that they had never enjoyed a state of their own. To tell the truth it didn’t matter much because nobility played decisive role before the first nations started to appear in 17 century. Most of them were artificially formed as well as their languages.
Strange to say but Greeks played big roles in forming not only the Orthodox but the Catholic version. I don’t know when teachings of Christ was turned into teaching about Christ and Prophet Christ was turned into God Christ. Formally it happened during the Council of Chalcedon in 451(+1052=1603) i.e. during the Great Disorder inside the Horde. By the way do you pay attention to the word “don” arising now and then? It was a Rus word (Poseidon, Macedon, Chalcedon) meaning river or sea. For instance Chalcedon (historical center of Istanbul) = Halk-e Don = People from Don River. Life was only along the rivers and sea shores you know.
I do believe that by the fall of the century Fomenko’s version will dominate. Many tales and "how I won the war stories" will fall like dominos. Just because the amount of the contradicting facts grows rapidly. But even after it happens Greeks will have many things to be proud of. I am not happy about everything the Great Tartaria was doing but it was our history and we must know it before we can make some judgements. Those who rule this world have good memory and they must have saved the documents. That’s where from their non-stop Russophobia takes the roots. If you read the history of Turkey you will not find even mentioning of Russia before 17 century and so is Europe as if we have landed on parachutes from the heaven. Because Russia was the main target of the falsifications then and now.
500-700 years ago many words had other meaning. Even the maps were upside down sometimes. First nations were formed in 17-18 centuries but most of them - in 19-20 centuries only. Simply because before that there was no need as nobility was desisive. For 400-500 years inside the Ottoman Porta there was no need for any of you to be organized in nations. Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians, Romanians and other Orthodox were united in the Milliet-i Rum where they enjoyed big autonomy rights. There were 3 others Milliets (Catholic, Jewish and the Muslim) where peoples had the same rights. The only exclusion was the Muslim Milliet that had tax advantages. So since 1453 there were no Greeks or Russians or Shqiptars but there was Mulliet-i Rum instead. The problem started to arise in 19 century when Balkan people made their biggest mistake to set free. It put an end for the peace on the peninsula. All ethnic groups met the problem of self-identification. Say Shqiptars who were dissolved in 3 Milliets had to find uniting points such as history, language and territory. So were all other peoples here. Yet the Ottoman period of the history is more or less clear as it was falsified little. As for the Byzantine period we know about it much less. First because their chronicles paid little attention to the colonies (fems) of the Byzantine including those on the Russian soil. Best descriptions were given by Niketas Choniates but you cannot trust them 100% too.
Look at your own history when you all of a sudden almost stopped to exist for centuries when you printed no coins and even stopped to die! Greeks were a SEA NATION so when we are told the Alexander was a Greek it only amuse me. His Asian invasion reminds the ethnic Mongols to build hundreds of ships to invade Japan. Where are all those 33 Alexandrias and how was the Army supplied through the hostile deserts? How can you explain multiple memories of his occupation of Western Siberia? There’s a long list of questions that you already failed to respond while I can put plenty of others.
Greeks were friendly to the Great Horde and they were the chronicles of the Horde plus they were top Brahmans of the Horde but the role they played was different from what we are told. Many dynasties like the Angels are exposed as Greeks though they weren’t as such. Same with the Komnins of Andronicus-Christ. Their family name sounds rather Russian so we cannot be sure they were Greeks. At least only Russians who avenged for Christ during the 4 Crusader Wars of 1185-1204. History you trust write that Crusaders never Jerusalem. The answer is evident – because Constantinople was the Bible Jerusalem. Same is the history of the Damascus Antiohian Church. As soon as they had a threat they ran to Constantinople but not to not existing (before 19 century) Jerusalem in Palestine ect.
Greek : If one assumes that the Byzatine empire started fom 330 AD by Constantine I …
In 330 (= 1380-82 according to the New Chronology of Fomenko) Russian Great Kniaz/Khan Dmitry I Ivanovic (Donskoy) moved his religious capitol back to Jerusalem aka Tsargrad. Since 1261 it was controlled by the friendly Nicaean Dynasty. He took there his Greek Patriarch and ruled the empire from there. Then capitol of Vladimir (Poses The World) city was built and named as the capitol of the world. So the Great Horde had two capitols now.
Kniaz Dmitry took the upper hand in the severe battle on the Kulikovo Field (1380) where the so called First Christians were destroyed and declared as Pagans. They were prosecuted by the winner Apostolic Christians despite both sides belonged to the ruling Rurikovici Dynasty of the Horde/Tartaria. Pagans were led by the Kniazia Riazanskie also known as the Golden Horde and the and the Cherkassy Mamelukes. Their commander Mamay (Ivan Belianinov) ran to Crimea but was arrested and betrayed by the Russian Alans.
Anyways Dmitry moved to Tsargrad and called himself Constantine I the Great. But after 9 years he was killed on Kosovo Field as Murat I. His son Vasily I (Bayased I) continued the job before he was killed by Tamerlane. Unlike his wife this one did not belong to the Rurikovici so he was only a Voevoda/Amir. In 1453 Russian Kniaz Mehmet II of the Tverskie Dynasty seized Constantinople and called it STAN BULGAR = PLACE OF VOLGA PEOPLE.
All Russian sources are more or less correct in describing the battle so you can use even Wikipedia. But there are several important details that they do not describe right:
1/ Golden Horde had nothing to do with the Mongols who learned about their world empire only in 1936 from Stalin’s “History of the USSR”. Not a slightest sign of their presence on the Russian soil was found.
2/ Golden Horde was the professional army of the Great Horde led by the Kniazia/Khans Riazanskie (князья Рязанские) headed by Othodoc Cristian Ivan Bilianinov called Mamay.
3/ It was a result of the Smuta Time (1359-1415) that started soon after the death of the Calif (top of the empire and the church) of the Great Tartaria/Horde known in the west as Bati Khan (Vatican) and Prester John. His Russian name was Ivan I Danilovic. He was younger brother Of Georgy Danilovic aka St.George aka Георгий Победоносец aka Gengis Khan.
4/ Mongol khan Tohtamish in fact was Dmitry Ivanovic Donskoy himself. In western mythology he is known as Emperor Constantine I Great. Rurikovici were a Russified Romey dynasty that flew here after 1204 when the Russian horde avenged for the Savior. Other Rameys flew to Eorope and Africa. Angelos Dynasty settled in England and they still rule this country.
5/ As if Russia payed them the taxes for another 101 years before Mehmet II died in Istanbul.
Vatican library has underground corridors 8 km long and the most secret archives are in the end of the labyrinth. To reach there one needs permittion from the Pope himself. Russian do work there but like anybody else they are not allowed to the oldest archives. The ones that were brought here in 1448 by the future Pope Nicolas V. He ran from Constantinople when it became evident that the city is to fall. He brought about 2300 books of the history of the Byzantine since the Egyptian period of the 1-st Rome in Alexandria. Also he brought the gold of the empire that was later used to provoke the Europeans against the Great Horde. Yet you must understand that the emperors of both then Byzantine and then Horde/Tartaria were close relatives. Both belonged to the same Ruricovici Dynasty. As well as the Sultans who were Kniazia Tverskie branch. Looks like the Niemanici were part of the last ones. As for Vatican library it has security better than in Fortnox because it’s the real history of the mankind there. Here the famous library of Ivan Grozny is also expected to be. It was stolen in 1613 during the occupation of Moscow by the Europeans who in fact were also Russians. Those were Rurikovici appointed to watch after the European colonies but who wanted to become independent from the Horde. They knew everybody inside the Horde and knew how the state machine worked. It took them some 60 years to seize power.
Most Russian Kniaz/Khans had Byzantine roots. In the times when this land was fems/colonies of the Byzantine Tsargrad was appointing their people to rule all their far away territories including Russia. That’s why none of them admitted another as a superior power. So they fought one another all the time even after Byzantine became colony of the Rus. Sometimes they split away, sometimes swallowed one another. After brothers Ivan and Georgy put the whole world on the knees in 1329 their power was never questioned. De facto their descendants always headed the Horde. But after 1340 military power shifted to Volga Region where the Golden Horde was prospering. Those were Kniaz/Khans of Riazan – another branch of the ruling Ruricovici. Initially they belonged to the mighty Chernigov Kniazia in Ukraine but then they split away and formed Muromo-Riazan Kniazdome. They always fought one another especially after 1340 when the founder of the empire Ivan Danilovic died. In Britain he is known as Brut and it gave name to the islands. His elder son Dmitry I Ivanovic aka Murad I aka Constantine I was too young to save the empire while in the Golden Horde almost every year the Khans were changed. By 1380 Mamay became de facto Khan of the Golden Horde. Like Tamerlane he didn’t belong to the Dynasty and had zero chance to head the empire. So he decided to make Dmitry a vassal of his.
In war time Tisiatski/Voevoda always became head of the empire but it wasn’t war time so almost all other Kniazes supported Dmitry. Yet their chance against the Horde was close to zero because their bodyguards were not trained to stand against the professionals. But Dmitry’s Goadfather sent him wooden cannons that were first used in a battle. It saved the situation. After the victory. Before the battle the world empire was split for 3 Hordes – the White of Dmitry, the Golden of the Riazan kniazez and the Blue (Osman) of the Chernigov-Tver. But after the battle it was all of the White Horde so they began to leave their marks all over the world. Kosovo and Angora battles were part of that civil war inside the Horde. You too know many of the Whites’ toponymal but you do not pay them attention. During the disaster/Smuta period of 1359-1415 the European colonies stopped to pay taxes and to obey. So they were reconquered in 1415-1448. The map of the Horde’s armies’ routes is still printed on the outside wall of the St.James Church in the “end of the land” in Santiago-de-Compostela where 9 swords are entering 9 states of Europe. For 3 decades there were no more problems with Europe. But then came the terrible year of 1485 reflected in the Holy Writ as Apocalypses … After that Europeans never stopped to panicly fear the Russians but it's another story already.
Trojan aka Gothic war that started in 1185 in Istanbul and ended in 1340 in Europe.
(rote, 29 August 2016 10:06)
In fact it ended in 1329 when 100% of Europe became vassals of the Horde with Horde's governors everywhere. Balkan region and Austria (Eastern Reich) were the main strongholds of the Horde/Tartaria. Balkans was something special. All local peoples were loyal to the Horde and were considered as the Whites but only the Shqiptars saved this memory while since 19 century Serbs accepted the Vatican version of the history. Romanov's Russia served them bad service as Serbs trusted this German dynasty. Russia set them free not only as the Orthodox but also because the Romanovs and the Rurikovici Osmans were mortal enemies of one another since the Romanovs seized power in 1613. Before that they killed all the legal Rurikovici calling them false Dmitri I and false Dmitry II.
then by the same token we can say that the empire of today, the eu, is english empire ,just bc the official language is English. is this what u basically saying ?
about them sources that u bring to back up your claim,the same nr of sources can be brought up to back up illyrian-albanian continuity.
(delon,
Really? English language is not the official EU language but one of the official languages of all members.Therefore your analogy is wrong.
I deliberately didn't quote any Greek Byzantine historian (there're more than 40) for the reason of being accused of bias.This why I've quoted eminent non-Greek Byzantolists.
With regard to your Illyrian-Albanian connection If you do have any world renown non-Albanian sources i am prepared to look at them.
Skenderbeu 1444
Leonidas I think you still make confusion between hellenistic civilization and greek ethnicity.
Where do i mention ethnicity in my posting? I just gave you a brief account of the transformation of the Eastern Roman Empire into Byzantine one.I agree that the empire was a multi-racial one.I’ve also given you all non-Greekl sources from eminent Byzantologists to judge for yourself.
With regard to WWII reparations I think it is insane to ask today for something that Greece could have asked in 1946.
Greece asked for reparations back in 1953 and was told that Germany couldn’t pay because it was divided and East Germany didn’t accept any responsibility for Nazi loans.When Germany was united in 1989 the subject came back again but this time we were told that Germany was the biggest EU contributor and Greece was benefiting from the EU budget but so were many other countries.The Nazi loans have nothing to do with the EU budget.
As i’ve said before the Chams were driven out from Greece not by the Greek government(there wasn’t one) but by the resistance and the British.After the war the then Greek government asked the Albania for them to be sent back and stand trial as enemy collaborators and war crimes.Albania refused and instead granted them amnesty.
Vatican library has underground corridors 8 km long and the most secret archives are in the end of the labyrinth. To reach there one needs permittion from the Pope himself.
rote
I think you’ve been brainwashed by Dan Brown’s books “Da Vinci Code” and “ Angels & Demons” that became Hollywood Films. You’re a creature of The Matrix created by Fomenko propagandists.You see imaginary ancient past and glory, not real ones.Give some credit to world historians and scientists teaching at the best Universities of the world.They're not part of some great conspiracy that Fomenko makes you believe.
Skenderbeu aka rote Stop pretending being an albanian rote. We are not idiots to believe your ruski fairy tails.
(andrew, 30 August 2016 12:57)
I am happy that you are not an idiot but I am a Russian and I live in Moscow while 80% of the Albanians/Whites were Rus people of the White Horde. From this point I agree that I am an Albanian and so were all Balkan peoples including Serbs. It was a proud name but it had no ethnical meaning but it showed the military force to which some people belonged.
I don’t think that local Skenderbeu will like the below but I believe that Georgy Iskander Bek was Rus Khan. He had a contradictious biography being part of the Ottomans (Kniazia Tverskie) and then Fighting them (Independent Horde). At least Tamerlane WHO FOUGHT THE Ottomans had 9 names with with all 3 components (Georgy Iskander Bek) present there :
Великий Эмир, Бек, Мирза, Абу Мансур, Абу Фатих, Абу Гази, Сахиб-и Кирани, Хаган, Гете Стани, Султан, Искандар Ул Ахад, Гурган.
Бек = Bek/Bey/Khan/Kniaz
Искандар Ул Ахад = Alexander The Great
Гурган = Georgy
Leonidas don't go crazy. Once I told you that in 95% cases I use rote nickname. If you want to know more in remaining 5% cases I sign RK or rote kapelle that in fact is the same. For conspiracy reasons RK comments are shorter and not that angry but in 95% cases I am rote. Write it on your ancient Greek nose!
Somebody To Love/ White Rabbit --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnP72uUt_pU
nidas : spending your whole life staying true to a lie. PS Next time instead of using my name to post your nonsense
See I already do not use your name to post my nonsense! But I will stay “true to the lie” until someone proves that it is a lie. As you know your own attempts have failed and I know why. Because you’ve got used to look at the rest of the world from above and any arguments that Slavs were nothing worse kill you. It reminds me an episode in a Russian comedy film when an Anti-Semite learned that he was a Jew : “Mother tell me as a Russian to a Russian – am I a Jew?” You know that in the past all who brought bad news were killed. Rote was еру щту for many commenters here. Not only you but the Shqiptars and the Serbs too. None of you had your own history before 19 century as well as none of you had enjoyed your own statehood. Byzantine was not a Greek empire though the Greeks played a very big role there. Yet it was a cocktail with a very big Slavic and Armenian influence. So what is known as the Greek history was composed of 3 parts :
1/ Basic for the fake Italian Rome history written by the Benedictions and the Jesuits and the Dominicans (dominating khans) in 17 century.
2/ history of the “ancient” Greece sucked from the finger by the Oldenburgs in 19 century.
3/ Legends that were written for the First Christians of the Ruricovici Dynasty by the Greeks praising them as gods.
Who is to be considered as the Greeks is also an open issue.
No one of your neighbors likes you Serbia..... Balkan is tired of your shit ... With every ex Yugoslav countrie -same story with u ... Leave the people alone ...
Organizers said they were calling the protests because Kosovo's admission to the UN would be blocked "for the next ten years" should Jeremic succeed Ban Ki-moon at the helm of the world organization.
Well if it makes them feel better, they wont join the UN even if Jeremic isn't elected. And according to B92's resident political expert, icj1 says that the reason why "kosovo"* doesn't have a seat at the UN is because it hasn't applied and doesn't want to. He doesn't think it's beneath the standards of the KLA to join such an organization. Otherwise, they would have joined a long time ago.
Absolutely. Which means Albanians are protesting over nothing since it doesn't matter who becomes the Secretary General. Kosovo is still blocked by a coalition of states. Jeremic is irrelevant to Kosovo's inertia.
(the actual truth, 26 August 2016 19:14)
There are several Nato members in the UN that will veto Jeremic because of his proven incompetence.
You think Nikolic will ever get the chance to become kosovo president ? Never ..
Why always this drama ..this behaviour brings serbia no where .. just tensions that no one wants .. Kosovo is indipendent..
trying to block kosovo , you only will block your own way becoming EU . Balkan countries went through this in the 90s , USA is familiar with this , and knows very well how to deal with this..
.
Even if Jeremic isn't elected, Kosovo will still be out of the UN for the next 10 years. They forget the Security Council. Albanians are slow learners.
I am from Syria and in war all peoples are raped, murdered and what not. Also I find only an idiot will believe the Albanians that is why in Kosovo there are 90% Albanians so if all of you were murdered why are there so many of you? Your people are fleeing Kosovo so fast exposing yourself as migrants from the middle east because Kosovo is no good for you. Maybe you should come from a place like Syria and experience what my people have. As much as Muslims from Syria all agree KOSOVO is SERBIA!
@ Leonidas If you were an educated man you should know that greek language was used as the language of the Byzantine empire but that doesn't mean that the Bizant was greek. Rote asked a very good question but you fail to answer to him: what did "greek" mean in the middle ages? This is a simple question and even high school students in Albania know this! Also do you still think that Germany owes Greece reparations for WWII? What about Albanian Chams who were slaughtered and expelled from Greece during WWII? Reply in simple and direct way if you are a man!
Jeremic as secretary-general would be a disgrace. He would end up weakening the UN, pitting UN bodies against one another as he did when he tried to pit the General Assembly against the ICTY because it was doing its job.. I am sure there are other episodes as well that prove his inadequacy, which have not come out in the media.
"This has been reported on Friday by the Belgrade-based newspaper Danas.
Organizers said they were calling the protests because Kosovo's admission to the UN would be blocked "for the next ten years" should Jeremic succeed Ban Ki-moon at the helm of the world organization."
Danas is reporting non-sense! The UN Secretary-General is more secretary than general and can do nothing to either help or prevent a country from becoming a UN member, regardless of whether it is Vuk or somebody else in that position.
Danas is reporting non-sense!
(icj1, 26 August 2016 16:02)
---
icj1, the CB of B92, is a leader in reporting non-sense. icj1's nonsensical diagnosis of an entire ethnic group with a neurological disorder betrays common sense and decency.
"What really matters is continuation (e.g. culture, language, occasionally religion) which ensures the historical sense of an evolving community through time. In other words, modern Greeks have those features enabling them to look back to antiquity."
Leonidas
I imagine those features enabling you to look back to antiquity are callused from friction and
never being satisfied.
This is funny because "Kosova"*** will never join the UN. It has already been blocked by Russia and China indefinitely. Putin has mentioned that he will stand by the Serbian people regardless of what the politician say.
Look at your own history when you all of a sudden almost stopped to exist for centuries when you printed no coins and even stopped to die! Greeks were a SEA NATION so when we are told the Alexander was a Greek it only amuse me. His Asian invasion reminds the ethnic Mongols to build hundreds of ships to invade Japan. Where are all those 33 Alexandrias and how was the Army supplied through the hostile deserts? How can you explain multiple memories of his occupation of Western Siberia? There’s a long list of questions that you already failed to respond while I can put plenty of others.
Greeks were friendly to the Great Horde and they were the chronicles of the Horde plus they were top Brahmans of the Horde but the role they played was different from what we are told. Many dynasties like the Angels are exposed as Greeks though they weren’t as such. Same with the Komnins of Andronicus-Christ. Their family name sounds rather Russian so we cannot be sure they were Greeks. At least only Russians who avenged for Christ during the 4 Crusader Wars of 1185-1204. History you trust write that Crusaders never Jerusalem. The answer is evident – because Constantinople was the Bible Jerusalem. Same is the history of the Damascus Antiohian Church. As soon as they had a threat they ran to Constantinople but not to not existing (before 19 century) Jerusalem in Palestine ect.
Will someone donate some tissues to Pristina? Alot of tears are falling. Jeremic in or out regardless.
Kosovo* can wait more than 10,20 or even 50 years and even then they will never legitimize their illegal dirty declaration of independence.
By then they would have lost support from U.S and E.U
You(rote) ,on the other hand,have been engaged on a propaganda campaign of epic proportions trying to convince other posters of your cut & paste Fomenko's pseudo-history.Some of the claims are so ridiculous that are not even worth to scrutiny.Indeed how ridiculous it is for someone to claim that Jerusalem was in fact in Crimea or the assertion that Jesus was russian and the same person with Pope Gregory VII.Yet the biographies of the two men are totally different.Christ was executed in his thirties while Pope Gregory died of old age.Unless of course you're not a Christian and don't believe in crucifixion.The list of pseudo-history lies goes on and on...Your folks’ pathetic, indoctrinated paranoia is freakin’ hilarious to anyone with higher than a 2nd Grade education.
(Leonidas, 27 August 2016 13:50)
Well put Leonidas! Indeed, if rote believes in the psycho-babble of Fomenko, then he should also believe he is his own grandpa. Revisionism has become a cottage industry of Putin's Russia!
The UN was weak and unable to prevent Serbia from being bombed in 1999 and in the end supported the actions of NATO. Does anyone think it would have turned out differently if Jeremic was UN S.G. at the time.
A couple of members of the UNSC have made it quite clear that Jeremic remains a good candidate and is very much in contention for the position in their view.
(NYC, 27 August 2016 20:07)
Really, would you care to share their names with us?
In 1612 and in 1812 Moscow was seized and burnt by two all-European armies one called Polish and the other of Napoleon. They have stolen or destroyed most of the artefacts that could answer questions of today. Most of the important documents are held in Vatican and British libraries or in private collections. Many are not revealed because they contradict the western version of history imposed in 17-19 centuries. Yet internet opened us big opportunities to investigate and deliver the results directly to the users. Catholic/Protestant version was aimed against Russia and the Ottomans as the main parts of the Former Great Tartaria aka Great Horde whos main stronghold was Balkans. Unlike Russia that was a German colony in 1612-1812 the Turkish soil has never been occupied. They saved Byzantine libraries too so there's a good chance to sooner or later have the answers for who were the Greeks, the Albanians, the Serbs and many others. At least in Crimea of 16-17 centuries Greeks were those who had Greek belief including people of Turkic origin. Besides changing belief was not a crime as all of them including Islam and Judaism were versions of Christianity. Many answers will be given by the genetics and the genealogists yet I believe that the Shqiptars had no Caucasian roots but lived in the current region but name Albanian is artificial for you. After the Golden Horde was destroyed in 1380 on Kulikovo Field the White Horde aka Albanians became dominant in the world.
500-700 years ago many words had other meaning. Even the maps were upside down sometimes. First nations were formed in 17-18 centuries but most of them - in 19-20 centuries only. Simply because before that there was no need as nobility was desisive. For 400-500 years inside the Ottoman Porta there was no need for any of you to be organized in nations. Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians, Romanians and other Orthodox were united in the Milliet-i Rum where they enjoyed big autonomy rights. There were 3 others Milliets (Catholic, Jewish and the Muslim) where peoples had the same rights. The only exclusion was the Muslim Milliet that had tax advantages. So since 1453 there were no Greeks or Russians or Shqiptars but there was Mulliet-i Rum instead. The problem started to arise in 19 century when Balkan people made their biggest mistake to set free. It put an end for the peace on the peninsula. All ethnic groups met the problem of self-identification. Say Shqiptars who were dissolved in 3 Milliets had to find uniting points such as history, language and territory. So were all other peoples here. Yet the Ottoman period of the history is more or less clear as it was falsified little. As for the Byzantine period we know about it much less. First because their chronicles paid little attention to the colonies (fems) of the Byzantine including those on the Russian soil. Best descriptions were given by Niketas Choniates but you cannot trust them 100% too.
Even the Greeks are opposed to Jeremic for UN S.G.
(Leonidas, 26 August 2016 15:18)
Don't judge strict prisoners of war ...
(rote, 26 August 2016 18:2
Keep rolling your eyes,you may find a brain there.Worse than telling a lie is spending your whole life staying true to a lie.
PS Next time instead of using my name to post your nonsense use one of the several names you've been using on this side to convince people of your conspiracy theories.
The following writers disagree.A chance to educate yourself:
1.Aug.Heisenberg: "Byzantium is the christianised Roman state of the Greek nation (Staat und Gesellschaft des byzantinischen Reiches, Die Kultur der Gegenwart, s. 364)
2.Talbot Rice:"Byzantium has to be studied as a chapter of the long history of τhe Greek civilisation."
3: Ostrogorsky:"Byzantium, although it always remained loyal to the Roman political ideals, and traditions, it is now turning into a Medieval Greek state."(History of the Byzantine state,p.217)
4: Gyula Moravscik:He says that it is preferable to talk about Greekology rather than Byzantinology (Byzantion,Vol.25(1965) p. 291-301)
5. P.Lemerle:He writes about Greek middle ages First Byzantin humanism, p.52)
the "Hellenization of the Empire" p.71)and "Greek christianity" (p.279)
6: Karl Marx refers to the "Greek patriotism" of the Kings of Nickaia and he calls the emperors of Constantinople as Greek emperors(Article of New York Daily Tribune 12/8/1853 – London 29/7/1853)
7.Sture Linner: "The Byzantines were always conscious of their Greek past"(History of the Byzantine civilisation,p.219)
8:Kurt Weitzmann.He writes about "The Greek blood in the veins of the Byzantines"(Greek mythology in Byzantine Art,p.207)
9:N.David:The Byzantine empire "in 6th century was more Greek than Roman"(p.23)and that Byzantine civilisation is a Greek spiritual world (p.147in the evolution of the middle ages
A couple of members of the UNSC have made it quite clear that he remains a good candidate and is very much in contention for the position in their view.It'll make a refreshing change from the usual limp-wristed buffoon that usually gets the job! Besides Jeremic seems very level-headed and would bring some well needed youthful opinion and vitality to this often ceremonial role.
I was once the proydest of serbs.....my family died defending serbia intwo world wars....and even long before.......but what is left of serbia is the end result of 500 years of turkish occupation and decades of living under the illusion of yugoslavia......serbs will sell out all principles for a tap on the back...they hate each other.....they are not a people......they are just the nasty two faced stragglers of history.....serbia has no honour nor integrity
The UN Secretary-General is more secretary than general and can do nothing to either help or prevent a country from becoming a UN member, regardless of whether it is Vuk or somebody else in that position.
(icj1, 26 August 2016 16:02)
Absolutely. Which means Albanians are protesting over nothing since it doesn't matter who becomes the Secretary General. Kosovo is still blocked by a coalition of states. Jeremic is irrelevant to Kosovo's inertia.
On an average time frame of six months you won't see any posting of mine trying to convince other posters of my "ancient" past.In fact i am on record saying that no serious historian would ever claim that modern peoples are direct descendants of ancient peoples, at least in terms of DNA. What really matters is continuation (e.g. culture, language, occasionally religion) which ensures the historical sense of an evolving community through time. In other words, modern Greeks have those features enabling them to look back to antiquity.
You ,on the other hand,have been engaged on a propaganda campaign of epic proportions trying to convince other posters of your cut & paste Fomenko's pseudo-history.Some of the claims are so ridiculous that are not even worth to scrutiny.Indeed how ridiculous it is for someone to claim that Jerusalem was in fact in Crimea or the assertion that Jesus was russian and the same person with Pope Gregory VII.Yet the biographies of the two men are totally different.Christ was executed in his thirties while Pope Gregory died of old age.Unless of course you're not a Christian and don't believe in crucifixion.The list of pseudo-history lies goes on and on...Your folks’ pathetic, indoctrinated paranoia is freakin’ hilarious to anyone with higher than a 2nd Grade education.
Bible Jerusalem was Istanbul, Judea was region around Istanbul, Bethlehem was Sevastopol, Palestine was Crimea, Israel was Russia, Tavul was Tobolsk ect. I couldn’t say that the Savior was Russian. Maybe I said that Mary Virgin was Russian from Crimea and this is why Russia was always called HOUSE OF MOTHER MARY = ДОМ БОГОРОДИЦЫ. And I know nothing about Pope Gregory VII so I could only mention Pope Gregory XIII or maybe it was Nicolas V who ran from Constantinople in 1448 to establish Vatican and later the new Rome too. No other Popes I was mentioning here. I think you used some doping when you wrote this panic comment. As for the Jesus Christ you know that it was Greek version and it had nothing to do with his lifetime name. In Jerusalem (Yoros Castle in Istanbul) he was known as Andronicus I Komnin but he spent greater part of his life in Russia where he was known as Andrey Bogoliubsky. Jesus was seized during the riot of his Armenian (not Greek!) cousin Isaac II Angelos and tortured to death on Beikos Hill (see Tomb of Joshua ) near Jerusalem.
Under the terms of the 1953 London Agreement on German External Debts, Germany owes the Greek state 476 million reichmarks ($14 billion) that Greece was forced to give Nazi Germany in loans during its occupation. If 4% interest had been accrued over 66 years, the loan corresponds to $193 billion in today’s terms.The above doesn’t include the costs incurred on Greek infrastructure by the nazi regime.
Chams were World war II criminals who committed many crimes against Greek civilians in Epirus and were also involved in the deportation of Jews from Ioannina.They were lucky to escape with their lives and their crimes were rewarded with an amnesty from the communist regime in Albania. Greece asked Albania to nullify and cancel the presidential amnesty granted by the then Albanian communist regime to the Cham collaborators of the Nazis and send to Greek and European courts for their crimes but Albania refused to do so. End of matter.
"Kosova"*** will never join the UN. It has already been blocked by Russia and China indefinitely.
(Zoran, 27 August 2016 18:36)
You might want to illuminate readers of these forums when did Russia and China block "Kosova"***'s application for UN membership! It sounds like you have some news that few other people, if any, are aware of.
----------
Putin has mentioned that he will stand by the Serbian people regardless of what the politician say.
(Zoran, 27 August 2016 18:36)
Of course, Putin (who has not been elected by the Serbian people) knows better what the Serbian people want compared to those who have been elected by the Serbian people lol
Your folks’ pathetic, indoctrinated paranoia is freakin’ hilarious to anyone with higher than a 2nd Grade education.
(Leonidas, 27 August 2016 13:50)
Thanks for the complements and tell me please how could skillful sailors and fishers develop arms, technologies and strategy of seizing vast territories several thousand kilometers away from the closest sea? And what for did they need the lands that had zero value before middle ages? How could they secure their supply routes through the hostile lands inhabited by population exceeding yours many times? How could Alexander accumulate a 150 000 strong army if Greeks were dispersed along the Mediterranean and the Russian Sea also known as the Black one? Did they leave any Greek marks in the DNA of the Asian people like the Russian Horde did? Or have they left any other footprints or fingerprints in the region? How come that a man whose family name was Makedonski could be a French or an Arab or a Greek? Such are the questions that remain hanging in the air concerning every item of the ancient Greece. How come that the old Greek is close not to the mediaeval but to the modern one? Ect. ect. Some people’s glory was stolen and granted to others – that’s what drives me mad …
he won't make it past the Security Council Vote, because the West will veto him. He has no chance to be elected.
(observer, 26 August 2016 14:51)
Hey willi pfaff - You are so predictable. The real satisfaction here is that Jeremic gets under your skin. We remember you wrote that nothing good ever came from Serbia. You have no chance of being seen as credible.
If one assumes that the Byzatine empire started fom 330 AD by Constantine I, then it is very safe to assume that its emperors and its ruling class continued to be of Roman extraction, at least for some time, while the majority of the people in it were not.
However a transformation was taking place within the empire that lasted up until the last quarter of the 6th with the empire being Hellenized and this proces was completed by the time of emperor Tiberios II in 578 and most certainly by the time of Maurice in 582. It was a result of the Hellenistic civilization that was predominant in the Eastern Medideranean and beyond, that came down the centuries after the death of Alexander the Great. By 578 not only its emperors but also the ruling class was speaking Greek as a first language in the empire, and had embraced the orthodox religion and Greek culture. From 578 you may assume that its emperors were of Greek extraction, or in the very least Hellenized if they were of different ancestry, like Armenian or Serbian.Therefore justifiably the Byzantine empire was considered the Greek empire of the Middle Ages.
If you disagree you can read through the sources I’ve quoted below researched and written by world historians and you can make up your own mind.
Greek : If one assumes that the Byzatine empire started fom 330 AD by Constantine I …
In 330 (= 1380-82 according to the New Chronology of Fomenko) Russian Great Kniaz/Khan Dmitry I Ivanovic (Donskoy) moved his religious capitol back to Jerusalem aka Tsargrad. Since 1261 it was controlled by the friendly Nicaean Dynasty. He took there his Greek Patriarch and ruled the empire from there. Then capitol of Vladimir (Poses The World) city was built and named as the capitol of the world. So the Great Horde had two capitols now.
Kniaz Dmitry took the upper hand in the severe battle on the Kulikovo Field (1380) where the so called First Christians were destroyed and declared as Pagans. They were prosecuted by the winner Apostolic Christians despite both sides belonged to the ruling Rurikovici Dynasty of the Horde/Tartaria. Pagans were led by the Kniazia Riazanskie also known as the Golden Horde and the and the Cherkassy Mamelukes. Their commander Mamay (Ivan Belianinov) ran to Crimea but was arrested and betrayed by the Russian Alans.
Anyways Dmitry moved to Tsargrad and called himself Constantine I the Great. But after 9 years he was killed on Kosovo Field as Murat I. His son Vasily I (Bayased I) continued the job before he was killed by Tamerlane. Unlike his wife this one did not belong to the Rurikovici so he was only a Voevoda/Amir. In 1453 Russian Kniaz Mehmet II of the Tverskie Dynasty seized Constantinople and called it STAN BULGAR = PLACE OF VOLGA PEOPLE.
Leonidas I think you still make confusion between hellenistic civilization and greek ethnicity. In the middle ages there was not such a thing as a greek nation, albanian nation or a serb nation and Byzantine empire was a multiethnic empire indeed. It remained multiethnic even under Ottomans who considered muslim Albanians as Turks, orthodoxes as Greeks and catholics as latins. So "greek" in the middle ages meant somebody who had embraced orthodoxy and hellenistic culture but that somebody could have been a greek, albanian, russian, serb, etc. This is big difference. With regard to WWII reparations I think it is insane to ask today for something that Greece could have asked in 1946. If this is normal then why don't we sit down and see that not all Chams were criminals and there was a batalion of partizan Chams also but Greece seized all their properties. I don't know nothing about this amnesty you talked about but you replied as a real "greek"!
@ Rote If most of the most important documents are held in Vatican and you think they prove this Fomenko is right, then why don't Russian historians ask Pope to let them study the Vatican archives? How many Russian historians agree with Fomenko? Because in my opinion you risk to become like Jehovai witnesses if you go on with these nice theories and people are not accusing only you here but also your president Mr. Putin for these new theories. Anyway I had this very nice chat with each of you and wish you both a great week!
Each time you describe Fomenko’s version of history you deliberately or not misinterpret it to the absurd level. Fomenko’s idea is that the real history was 1052 years shorter that what was appointed in 1572. This fake millennium was to be filled with something so real episodes of the mediaeval history were implemented to the fake ancient history. If you really doubt it we can go to the details but please don’t tell us that there was no mediaeval Egypt, Rome ect. There all were but different from what we are told. Say there were 2 mediaeval Romes one (N2) in Istanbul and the other (N3) in Veliki Novgorod aka Habsburg. But about Solomon you’re right - his lifetime name was Suleiman the Magnificent. Both were kings and both were very rich because of their mines ect. As you know there’s no gold in the ME while sault was almost as expensive as gold and it was the monopoly of Suleiman. Both names are Slavic and can be interpreted only as Saltman. Word Mongols was a misinterpreted Greek word Megaleon = Great while Tatar was a misprinted Russian word Tartar so Great Tartaria became Mongol-Tataria. As such it was first mentioned in Sinopsis book written in 1674 in Kiev by a Jesuit mocking for an Orthodox. Before that book Russians heard nothing about the Mongols. Russia ruled the world as the result of the victory in the Trojan aka Gothic war that started in 1185 in Istanbul and ended in 1340 in Europe.
All Russian sources are more or less correct in describing the battle so you can use even Wikipedia. But there are several important details that they do not describe right:
1/ Golden Horde had nothing to do with the Mongols who learned about their world empire only in 1936 from Stalin’s “History of the USSR”. Not a slightest sign of their presence on the Russian soil was found.
2/ Golden Horde was the professional army of the Great Horde led by the Kniazia/Khans Riazanskie (князья Рязанские) headed by Othodoc Cristian Ivan Bilianinov called Mamay.
3/ It was a result of the Smuta Time (1359-1415) that started soon after the death of the Calif (top of the empire and the church) of the Great Tartaria/Horde known in the west as Bati Khan (Vatican) and Prester John. His Russian name was Ivan I Danilovic. He was younger brother Of Georgy Danilovic aka St.George aka Георгий Победоносец aka Gengis Khan.
4/ Mongol khan Tohtamish in fact was Dmitry Ivanovic Donskoy himself. In western mythology he is known as Emperor Constantine I Great. Rurikovici were a Russified Romey dynasty that flew here after 1204 when the Russian horde avenged for the Savior. Other Rameys flew to Eorope and Africa. Angelos Dynasty settled in England and they still rule this country.
5/ As if Russia payed them the taxes for another 101 years before Mehmet II died in Istanbul.
@ Leonidas
if we have to assume that eastern roman empire was greek empire,just bc the official language was greek or close to greek(bc today that language you lern only in university),then by the same token we can say that the empire of today, the eu, is english empire ,just bc the official language is English. is this what u basically saying ?
about them sources that u bring to back up your claim,the same nr of sources can be brought up to back up illyrian-albanian continuity.
After the Golden Horde was destroyed in 1380 on Kulikovo Field the White Horde aka Albanians became dominant in the world.
(rote, 28 August 2016 10:14)
Can you recommend a reliable source that i can dip in and verify your statement? I am being polite!
Vatican library has underground corridors 8 km long and the most secret archives are in the end of the labyrinth. To reach there one needs permittion from the Pope himself. Russian do work there but like anybody else they are not allowed to the oldest archives. The ones that were brought here in 1448 by the future Pope Nicolas V. He ran from Constantinople when it became evident that the city is to fall. He brought about 2300 books of the history of the Byzantine since the Egyptian period of the 1-st Rome in Alexandria. Also he brought the gold of the empire that was later used to provoke the Europeans against the Great Horde. Yet you must understand that the emperors of both then Byzantine and then Horde/Tartaria were close relatives. Both belonged to the same Ruricovici Dynasty. As well as the Sultans who were Kniazia Tverskie branch. Looks like the Niemanici were part of the last ones. As for Vatican library it has security better than in Fortnox because it’s the real history of the mankind there. Here the famous library of Ivan Grozny is also expected to be. It was stolen in 1613 during the occupation of Moscow by the Europeans who in fact were also Russians. Those were Rurikovici appointed to watch after the European colonies but who wanted to become independent from the Horde. They knew everybody inside the Horde and knew how the state machine worked. It took them some 60 years to seize power.
Most Russian Kniaz/Khans had Byzantine roots. In the times when this land was fems/colonies of the Byzantine Tsargrad was appointing their people to rule all their far away territories including Russia. That’s why none of them admitted another as a superior power. So they fought one another all the time even after Byzantine became colony of the Rus. Sometimes they split away, sometimes swallowed one another. After brothers Ivan and Georgy put the whole world on the knees in 1329 their power was never questioned. De facto their descendants always headed the Horde. But after 1340 military power shifted to Volga Region where the Golden Horde was prospering. Those were Kniaz/Khans of Riazan – another branch of the ruling Ruricovici. Initially they belonged to the mighty Chernigov Kniazia in Ukraine but then they split away and formed Muromo-Riazan Kniazdome. They always fought one another especially after 1340 when the founder of the empire Ivan Danilovic died. In Britain he is known as Brut and it gave name to the islands. His elder son Dmitry I Ivanovic aka Murad I aka Constantine I was too young to save the empire while in the Golden Horde almost every year the Khans were changed. By 1380 Mamay became de facto Khan of the Golden Horde. Like Tamerlane he didn’t belong to the Dynasty and had zero chance to head the empire. So he decided to make Dmitry a vassal of his.
Trojan aka Gothic war that started in 1185 in Istanbul and ended in 1340 in Europe.
(rote, 29 August 2016 10:06)
In fact it ended in 1329 when 100% of Europe became vassals of the Horde with Horde's governors everywhere. Balkan region and Austria (Eastern Reich) were the main strongholds of the Horde/Tartaria. Balkans was something special. All local peoples were loyal to the Horde and were considered as the Whites but only the Shqiptars saved this memory while since 19 century Serbs accepted the Vatican version of the history. Romanov's Russia served them bad service as Serbs trusted this German dynasty. Russia set them free not only as the Orthodox but also because the Romanovs and the Rurikovici Osmans were mortal enemies of one another since the Romanovs seized power in 1613. Before that they killed all the legal Rurikovici calling them false Dmitri I and false Dmitry II.
In war time Tisiatski/Voevoda always became head of the empire but it wasn’t war time so almost all other Kniazes supported Dmitry. Yet their chance against the Horde was close to zero because their bodyguards were not trained to stand against the professionals. But Dmitry’s Goadfather sent him wooden cannons that were first used in a battle. It saved the situation. After the victory. Before the battle the world empire was split for 3 Hordes – the White of Dmitry, the Golden of the Riazan kniazez and the Blue (Osman) of the Chernigov-Tver. But after the battle it was all of the White Horde so they began to leave their marks all over the world. Kosovo and Angora battles were part of that civil war inside the Horde. You too know many of the Whites’ toponymal but you do not pay them attention. During the disaster/Smuta period of 1359-1415 the European colonies stopped to pay taxes and to obey. So they were reconquered in 1415-1448. The map of the Horde’s armies’ routes is still printed on the outside wall of the St.James Church in the “end of the land” in Santiago-de-Compostela where 9 swords are entering 9 states of Europe. For 3 decades there were no more problems with Europe. But then came the terrible year of 1485 reflected in the Holy Writ as Apocalypses … After that Europeans never stopped to panicly fear the Russians but it's another story already.
Skenderbeu aka rote Stop pretending being an albanian rote. We are not idiots to believe your ruski fairy tails.
(andrew, 30 August 2016 12:57)
I am happy that you are not an idiot but I am a Russian and I live in Moscow while 80% of the Albanians/Whites were Rus people of the White Horde. From this point I agree that I am an Albanian and so were all Balkan peoples including Serbs. It was a proud name but it had no ethnical meaning but it showed the military force to which some people belonged.
I don’t think that local Skenderbeu will like the below but I believe that Georgy Iskander Bek was Rus Khan. He had a contradictious biography being part of the Ottomans (Kniazia Tverskie) and then Fighting them (Independent Horde). At least Tamerlane WHO FOUGHT THE Ottomans had 9 names with with all 3 components (Georgy Iskander Bek) present there :
Великий Эмир, Бек, Мирза, Абу Мансур, Абу Фатих, Абу Гази, Сахиб-и Кирани, Хаган, Гете Стани, Султан, Искандар Ул Ахад, Гурган.
Бек = Bek/Bey/Khan/Kniaz
Искандар Ул Ахад = Alexander The Great
Гурган = Georgy
Rote/Skendebeu
On close reading,your posting is so ridiculous that I feel silly for even dignifying it with an answer.However I've always had a bit of a soft spot for truly absurd revisions of history proposed by the greatest charlatans-inspired by their conscious desire to exaggerate the non-existent achievements of their own ethnic group by putting scorn on the achievements of others.Despite your obvious nonsense and despite of how annoying is to discuss their proponents with you I think it's fun to dip for a laugh and to serve as a reminder of how low can people like Fomenko can reach in making things up for their nationalist agenda.
Fomenko's pseudoscience is the most nonsensical rewriting of world history based on made up lies.Indeed,there were no ancient Greece,China,Rome,Egypt,Iran and all other ancient entities,there were no middle Ages and early modern history are the same events with the same people with different names.The Ottoman emperor Suleiman was in fact Solomon(not even D.Icke could claim that)and Palestine was in fact Western Germany.
Yes, that's right - here we really get down to it. Russia used to pretty much rule the world.Mongols and Tartars -a myth -they were all part of Greater Russia.Turks? Also Russians.Basically, Russia was the most powerful and most important country in the whole world for the whole of recorded history, until some nasty Germans put a foreign dynasty in power and lied about it all.
I think it's you that needs all the sympathy.
After the Golden Horde was destroyed in 1380 on Kulikovo Field the White Horde aka Albanians became dominant in the world.
(rote, 28 August 2016 10:14)
rote,
I think I can safely say both Albanians and Serbs are rolling on the floor laughing at your ridiculous statement above. This is probably the only time that they will agree on anything. Additionally, I would even bet Leonidas would agree with them.
Rotes makes very good questions and is really hard for Leonidas to answer these questions and he wants reliable sources! One reliable source that comes to my mind is the Greek Revolution whose major commanders were all Arvanit or Whites. Now how come that these "whites" became so important if we are told that they were just new immigrants in Greece? How come that these Whites showed up after more than 10 centuries during which nobody mentioned them?
Vatican library has underground corridors 8 km long and the most secret archives are in the end of the labyrinth. To reach there one needs permittion from the Pope himself.
rote
I think you’ve been brainwashed by Dan Brown’s books “Da Vinci Code” and “ Angels & Demons” that became Hollywood Films. You’re a creature of The Matrix created by Fomenko propagandists.You see imaginary ancient past and glory, not real ones.Give some credit to world historians and scientists teaching at the best Universities of the world.They're not part of some great conspiracy that Fomenko makes you believe.
then by the same token we can say that the empire of today, the eu, is english empire ,just bc the official language is English. is this what u basically saying ?
about them sources that u bring to back up your claim,the same nr of sources can be brought up to back up illyrian-albanian continuity.
(delon,
Really? English language is not the official EU language but one of the official languages of all members.Therefore your analogy is wrong.
I deliberately didn't quote any Greek Byzantine historian (there're more than 40) for the reason of being accused of bias.This why I've quoted eminent non-Greek Byzantolists.
With regard to your Illyrian-Albanian connection If you do have any world renown non-Albanian sources i am prepared to look at them.
Skenderbeu 1444
Leonidas I think you still make confusion between hellenistic civilization and greek ethnicity.
Where do i mention ethnicity in my posting? I just gave you a brief account of the transformation of the Eastern Roman Empire into Byzantine one.I agree that the empire was a multi-racial one.I’ve also given you all non-Greekl sources from eminent Byzantologists to judge for yourself.
With regard to WWII reparations I think it is insane to ask today for something that Greece could have asked in 1946.
Greece asked for reparations back in 1953 and was told that Germany couldn’t pay because it was divided and East Germany didn’t accept any responsibility for Nazi loans.When Germany was united in 1989 the subject came back again but this time we were told that Germany was the biggest EU contributor and Greece was benefiting from the EU budget but so were many other countries.The Nazi loans have nothing to do with the EU budget.
As i’ve said before the Chams were driven out from Greece not by the Greek government(there wasn’t one) but by the resistance and the British.After the war the then Greek government asked the Albania for them to be sent back and stand trial as enemy collaborators and war crimes.Albania refused and instead granted them amnesty.
Leonidas : I think you’ve been brainwashed by Dan Brown’s books
I am a too big boy to be brainwashed that easy. Fomenko only gave me the main idea and now I can see things by myself. Besides he almost stopped his research in 17 century as he believes that after 1650 the history is more or less clear. But I don’t think so and I believe that even the 19 century was falsified in a great degree. We can talk about it if you like. You take it so close because Fomenko’s version touches history of Greece but his idea is that not only your history but any other is false. Russian, American or Chinese are nothing better and we can talk about it too. All new states meet the same problem of self-identification. It’s happening in Ukraine, Byelorussia, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Balkans and any other new states who try to find a reason why they must exist. 150 years ago should you ask peoples of north of Iran, Azerbaijan, Crimea or 5 states of Central Asia about their origin they would all say that they are Tatars. So we have to decode not only the real history but also the meaning of the words in the past. So were the Indians. How could it be that peoples in 3 faraway regions of the world could have the same name? Very simple is the answer – because it was a Russian word “inde” = far away = somewhere there. So peoples who inhabited the far away regions were called Indians here. See --- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Archive_of_the_Indies
Just think about the Mongols! In 21 century they still can do nothing but serve their cattle while to seize the world they needed some industry to make arms and supply the army. But before 20 century they even had no grammar to connect parts of the empire and accept taxes. Fomenko believes that their current name is derived from the Greek “Megaleon”. Look at the current Mongols and at the mediaeval ones - those are different peoples ethnically, culturally and in every other aspect!
See the “Mongol” emperors of Asia painted by Europeans http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b55003867c/f173.planchecontact
See also how “Arab” Mavrs (infact Russian Cossacks) looked like in Spain --- http://iskatel.info/tavryi-v-ispanii.html
See how the old maps looked like --- http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00generallinks/mallet/
Long ago I saw two Greeks trying to explain themselves. It was very funny but they failed as one was from Athens and the other from Tbilisi. The last one spoke almost Turkic but believed that it was Greek! We know little about who are and such a scene could happen to two Russians in the old times if they were from far away regions. Here if you live like a Russian and if you are an Orthodox you can say that you are a Russian. No matter if you are a Jew or a Caucasian. So words could have other meaning in the past. But your theory is concrete and does not suppose any changes or doubts.
After the Balkans were set free in 19-20 centuries they all faced problems not only with the borders but with ethnical and cultural sel-identification. And it was quite natural because the Ottomans as part of the former Mongol-Tatar Empire was built like Russia. Both were multinational and multi-religious empires. So all Orthodox were united in one Milleti Rum = People of Rome (!) headed by Greek Patriarchs from Fanar. So there were no conflicts neither inside the milliet nor with the 3 others (Catholic, Jewish and Muslim). Shqiptars were present in 3 out of 4 milliets and they too had no problems because the Muslim, Catholics and the Orthodox were part of the same former religion. But after the Ottomans the Shqiptars had to find their place between the Slavs and the Greeks who by that time already had their versions of the history. They knew nothing about the happlogroups that made them close relatives of the Greeks. Besides the Greeks were already proud of their newly obtained fame and did not mean to share it with anyone else. Meanwhile before 1821 the Greeks (current meaning) had never enjoyed a statehood of their own. Their ancestors played significant roles in many states of the past but seems that they had never enjoyed a state of their own. To tell the truth it didn’t matter much because nobility played decisive role before the first nations started to appear in 17 century. Most of them were artificially formed as well as their languages.
Strange to say but Greeks played big roles in forming not only the Orthodox but the Catholic version. I don’t know when teachings of Christ was turned into teaching about Christ and Prophet Christ was turned into God Christ. Formally it happened during the Council of Chalcedon in 451(+1052=1603) i.e. during the Great Disorder inside the Horde. By the way do you pay attention to the word “don” arising now and then? It was a Rus word (Poseidon, Macedon, Chalcedon) meaning river or sea. For instance Chalcedon (historical center of Istanbul) = Halk-e Don = People from Don River. Life was only along the rivers and sea shores you know.
I do believe that by the fall of the century Fomenko’s version will dominate. Many tales and "how I won the war stories" will fall like dominos. Just because the amount of the contradicting facts grows rapidly. But even after it happens Greeks will have many things to be proud of. I am not happy about everything the Great Tartaria was doing but it was our history and we must know it before we can make some judgements. Those who rule this world have good memory and they must have saved the documents. That’s where from their non-stop Russophobia takes the roots. If you read the history of Turkey you will not find even mentioning of Russia before 17 century and so is Europe as if we have landed on parachutes from the heaven. Because Russia was the main target of the falsifications then and now.
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