Serbia and RS commemorate victims of NDH death camps

And how many delegates from Croats will be attending this ceremony?
Let me guess, ZERO!
To this day Croatia continues to cover up and deny their horrible crimes, yet at the same time they rehabilitate fascism through the Ustasha greeting, Erecting a monument to Baresic and to annul the war crimes of Stepinac!
This just re-confirms what everyone knows, that the Ustashi NDH spirit is alive and well in Croatia!
Despicable!

Even the Jews have no time for you people. No Jewish politician from Israel has ever visited the myth of Jasenovac.
(Devout Christian, 19 August 2016 13:34)

The myth? You are an idiot! You do Croatians proud with your stupidity.

Israeli president visits Jasenovac.
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/region.php?yyyy=2010&mm=07&dd=26&nav_id=68695

United States Holocaust Museum-Jasenovac
https://www.ushmm.org/search/results/?q=jasenovac

Jews and Serbs boycott Croatia's remembrance of death camp victims
http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Jews-and-Serbs-boycott-Croatias-remembrance-of-death-camp-victims-452055

Prince Paul of Yu ( Serb ) was the first to accept Nazi Germany on Balkan soil.
(Devout Christian, 19 August 2016 13:34)

You're right. Prince Paul did accept Nazi Germany. And that's why literally 3 days after he signed the pact, Serbs overthrew him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat The Croatians and Bosniaks especially hated this. They wanted a pact with Germany and were willing to break up Yugoslavia to secure their place as Nazi puppets.

Then after Serbs overthrew Prince Paul, the Nazis launched "Operation Retribution" which bombed Belgrade into the ground and split Yugoslavia up. The Germans let the Croats have their large Nazi state "NDH" where Jasenovac and 23 other concentration camps were established. But the Germans knew they could only succeed if they personally and directly occupy Central Serbia with their own military. And so they did, killing every Jew and 10s of thousands of Serbs within a few short years.

But nothing compared to the destruction that took place in Jasenovac. Both in size and level of savagery. 700,000 Serbs, Jews, Roma and anti-fascist Croats were slaughtered in the most grotesque of fashions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srbosjek

Serbs for their part formed two anti-fascist guerrilla groups. But paid a huge price for their resistance to the Nazis. And Israel's ambassador to Bosnia attends every year. RIP to the victims. ☦✡

And how many delegates from Croats will be attending this ceremony?
Let me guess, ZERO!
(Shame on Croatia, 19 August 2016 12:51)

They already sent the revisionist Hasanbegovic to make an ass of himself and embarrass the Croatian people by denying Jasenovac was really a death camp. That of course was before they exonerated Stepinac and erected statues to Ustasha terrorists while chanting fascist slogans at Thompson's only concert of note every year.

Don't forget the icing on the cake. Concentration camps for children. scum.

(Gjon Marku, 19 August 2016 17:27)

-Nedic was a collaborator. But he was put in charge by the Nazis only after Operation Retribution of 1941 and the subsequent occupation of Serbia. He was not elected by anyone. Most of the soldiers that worked with him were Germans. Serbia has had a history of such collaborators. There were even Jewish collaborators with the Nazis.

-Serbia was occupied because Belgrade was bombed worse than during the 90s and the Germans directly moved in with their military and controlled the territory. What is that if not an occupation? The answer to this occupation was forming the majority of two anti-fascist resistance groups.

-Banjica Concentration Camp was ran directly by Germans. More Serbs and Jews were killed side by side. More Serbs died there than any other group.

-The Partizans were founded by Milan Gorkic, a Serb. Later Tito took over. But in Croatia alone, 65% of his soldiers were Serb. And that's before we take Serbia and Bosnia into account.

-The Chetniks were multi ethnic but majority Serb, just like the Partizans. Here are several picture of Bosniak Muslims Chetniks who fought for General Draza Mihailovich http://www.telegraf.rs/vesti/813374-muslimani-a-cetnici-borili-se-s-drazom-za-kralja-nikad-s-titom-foto

Finally, I will finish with a quote from former Israeli ambassador to Serbia, Mr. Josef Levy: "Serbs are one of the few nations that was completely on the right side during WWII."

Serbs should never forgett the crimes commited against its people by croats, bosnjaks and especially albanians. Let the world know what animals Serbia is surrounded by. Murderers, rapists and landgrabbers. Justice will prevail.

Devout Christian : Don't pretend that your Anti Fascist


КРЕСТА НА ТЕБЕ НЕТ ! We Russians know better than anyone else who, since when and how good fought on our side. And Serbs are the champions here. Because they composed tha absolute majority of the only two armies that fought Hitler in Europe. Polish Armia Kraiova was as big as Tito’s army but they did not fight the Nazi while Tito’s strategy was to seize any village or a town for a month, a week, a day or an hour. Michailovic had other tactics so his army could accumulate up to 150 000 for some operations to be dismissed soon after. Total combat losses of the two Yugoslavian armies in WW2 were above 300 000. Those were second big combat losses during WW2 after the USSR because half of the US combat losses (360 000) were suffered from Japan and it had nothing to do with WW2. Third big were combat losses of Britain (222 000 against 2 000 000 in WW1). Then came Poland with 123 000 but Poland suffered more losses within Wermaht. Croats were worse than anybody else as 90% of them were Ustasha minded. You know why Tito saved them from Nurnberg Tribunal. Same as why Britain saved France and USSR saved Poland. So tell your stories to someone else - we register the score. PS – Greeks and the Brits too fought good but it wasn’t a national wide war as in the case with the Montenegrins and the Serbs. They saved more Soviet lives than anybody else! Just think about – we lost 600 000 when liberating Poland and 7900 in Yugoslavia!

Too late now Serbia, Serbian people stayed quiet too long! The Serbian people who after World War Two remained in the Otacbina kept a very tight lip to please their new found saviour the mortal god Tito and the Serbian people who were displaced and went out into the Tugina also forgot who they were and what happened to them with a little money in their pockets from the new world! So all in all what happened to Serbia and Slavic Eastern Orthodox Christianity in the Balkans during the 1990's and continuing idefinately is our own Serbian problem, no one else to blame but our selves! After World War Two all Serbian people so quiet about the horrific murder of Eastern Orthodox Christianity in the Balkans, what Serbian ever brought it up officially? The subject regarding the horrific murder's of Serbian people kept silent only to please Tito who already put his plan of action for the next hollocast of the 1990's! What is incredible is the fact that the displaced Serbian people who went on into the Tugina how they also forgot every thing and kept so quiet! So no one else to blame but our selves, the Serbian people are responsable for their own destruction!!!

@Gjon

I see you're once again attempting to use arguments that were debunked last time. So let's review this carefully and slowly so even your attempt at historical revisionism will be clarified:

1. Historical sources including those in the West regard the rump Nedic Serbia (after territory was given to Nazi-allied Croatia, Bulgaria, Hungary, and Albania) as "occupied", not "allied". This is because Nedic had no popular support from the Serb population who continued to look to the Yugoslav government-in-exile living in London, which recognized the resistance movement of the Chetniks under Draza.

Nedic was a puppet in the purest sense. Pavelic was a collaborator. Big difference.

2. Death camps in Nazi-occupied Serbia were Nazi-financed, Nazi built, and with the one exception on Banjica which you obsess over, which was indeed run by a Serbian fascist (a monster who survived numerous assassination attempts mind you, but good for you for scraping up one example and using it to describe an entire people), the rest of the camps were German administered. That you could find local volunteers implicates Albanians in Kosovo as much as Serbs but you love to argue that Albanians saved all their Jews. Which was wrong.

3. Tito was a Croat by the bulk of his Partisans came from Serb support - many of who defected from Chetniks when they didn't fight back enough. Plus Serbs were among the most ardent supporters of SFRJ in the years following.

You're welcome.

But the Germans knew they could only succeed if they personally and directly occupy Central Serbia with their own military. And so they did, killing every Jew and 10s of thousands of Serbs within a few short years.

But nothing compared to the destruction that took place in Jasenovac. Both in size and level of savagery. 700,000 Serbs, Jews, Roma and anti-fascist Croats were slaughtered in the most grotesque of fashions [link]

Serbs for their part formed two anti-fascist guerrilla groups. But paid a huge price for their resistance to the Nazis. And Israel's ambassador to Bosnia attends every year. RIP to the victims. ☦✡
(Ari Gold, 19 August 2016 16:08)

You forgot to mention Nedic submitting to Nazi Germany and running the country with with the Serbian State Guard (approx. 20k-25k Nazi loyal Serb soldiers)

Also while it is true that Serbia was under Nazi administration it was never occupied. Just like other Balkans countries, Serbia was one of many Nazi vassals. It didnt have any special role or whatever. Nazis only had supervision, never a large military force in Serbia. See the Banjica Concentration Camp for exemple (The director was a serb and the staff were serbs)

What are the names of these anti-fascist guerilla groups? Partisans where founded by Tito, a croat, and was a multinational partisan group. Chetniks fought against anyone non Serb and was not a anti-fascist group in particular with the goal of creating "Greater Serbia"

Sure the majority was against Nazis as it was the case for every other balkan nation. I hate to disappoint you but serbia was neither exceptional nor anyhow special.
(Gjon Marku, 20 August 2016 00:21)

Actually, most historians agree that the Serbs tearing up Yugoslavia's pact with Hitler put his plans of invading the USSR off for a precious 6 weeks. This led to the Germans invading closer to the end of the year, and ultimately perishing due to the harsh Russian winters which they were not prepared for. So if it weren't for Serbs and their resistance, the Nazis would have controlled the USSR and the war would have lasted for a lot longer than it did.

" When it comes to WWI and WWII the only thing mentioned about the balkans is Princip.
(Gjon Marku, 21 August 2016 13:58)

Really? Your arrogance is misplaced.
Much has been written about the Nazi invasion of the Balkans and the impact it had on delaying the Nazi invasion of Russia (Barbarossa).
Karl Ritter, German Foreign Office Liaison Officer with the Nazi High Command. "This delay," he stated, "cost the Germans the winter battle before Moscow, and it was there that the war was lost." (Quoted by Memoirs Anthony Eden, British Foreign Minister).
You appear to believe that your opinions make you an expert. Know your place.

To the dudes below that say Jasenovac was a myth, see the United States Holcaust Memorial Museum:

Parag 7:
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005449

"The Croat authorities murdered between 320,000 and 340,000 ethnic Serb residents of Croatia and Bosnia during the period of Ustasha rule" (This is in addition to the 100k at Jasenovac. And the 40k at Stara Gradiska).

Prince Paul of Yu ( Serb ) was the first to accept Nazi Germany on Balkan soil. Don't pretend that your Anti Fascist when your worse then Pavelic. Even the Jews have no time for you people. No Jewish politician from Israel has ever visited the myth of Jasenovac.

@ Dragoljub Djurkovic, not all Serbs who emigrated abroad got little money in their pocket, many struggle to make ends meet even after many years in tugina....this is a sad perception of Serbians that everyone who leaves earn a load of money and live in mansions. Not true at all. Many die alone and pennyless in the new world. Look at Nikola Tesla as just one example. But not all those pennyless Serbs were great scientists so you won't hear about those Serbs.

I didnt expect more from a weak nation living in denial with a fake identity and a grotesque history.
(Gjon Marku, 20 August 2016 00:21)

Don't feel bad. You couldn't help being educated with textbooks approved by the Hoxha regime. The only difference you can make is if you choose to accept that your history and identity are fabricated myths to compensate for a people that have little to no contributions to Western civilization. You'll be a better person for it.

Let's erect a monument to the Butcher of the Balkans Slobodan Milosevic but to deflect attention away from public scrutiny let's bring up the NDH and the inflated figures at Jasenovac. The world couldn't care less about Serb victims. What's important to the world especially to Angelina Jolie is that the Stebrenica genocide is never to be forgotten. Even Biden has no clue which country he is visiting when he mentions ' Croatia is making progress '.

I hate to disappoint you but serbia was neither exceptional nor anyhow special.
(Gjon Marku, 20 August 2016 00:21)

News flash bubba, no one ever said it was. Both Ari and I have been saying Serbia's historical role in WWII is what is widely regarded by historians while you try to equate a small and historically inconsequential quisling government to one of the worst collaborationist states of Nazi-occupied Europe. We're not the ones living in denial with a fake identity and grotesque history. You're the one bending historical reality to make a point you know you can't hold but you're sticking to because of your own prejudices.

Again news flash: it's a bit difficult to take seriously the narrative of Serbia being a strong Allied resistor when two-thirds of your country is given to neighboring Nazi allies, a third of your people are systematically targeted by the SS, and another third and rounded up and thrown in NDH concentration camps. The fact that the remaining third openly and brazenly joined Partisan and Chetnik movements attests that they were, as you said, on the right bus, even if it was driven by someone else.

That's never been questioned. The fact Serbia had quislings doesn't diminish the argument since it received little to no support among the population and has never been attempted to be whitewashed. You're pushing an argument that has no empirical merit and argued into a corner you still come across as a self-righteous ass.

Fascists commemorate the victims of other fascists.

The real anti-fascists are those who condemn ALL the fascists, regardless their nationality.

This is scandalous. Serbian officials should not be allowed to stir trouble and hatred in neighboring countries. Multi-ethnic Bosnia should own its borders and ban these clowns from promoting ethnic hate.

Sure the majority was against Nazis as it was the case for every other balkan nation. I hate to disappoint you but serbia was neither exceptional nor anyhow special. It was rehabiltated and recognised as imposed collaboration just like all countries in the balkans. You didnt play a special role nor does the world give you credit for some form of a special role among your neighbors.

I see why it is so important for serbia to create the myth of an underdog hero in the region and blame anyone else. If you dont have anything to stand out then at least try to push everyone around you down. Its a common practice of people with an inferiority complex.

I didnt expect more from a weak nation living in denial with a fake identity and a grotesque history.

Gjon Marku : serbia was neither exceptional nor anyhow special. It was rehabiltated and recognised as imposed collaboration just like all countries in the balkans.

How dare you ! Nobody stood even close to the Serbs. There were only 3 partisan armies in Europe - one in the USSR and two in Serbia. All other “how I won the war stories” were written WITH INK and AFTER the war while Serbs and Montenegrins wrote their history WITH THEIR BLOOD and DURING the war. They started their war in 1941 while all the rest joined them only in late 1944 - early 1945. The two partisan armies composed mostly of the Serbs and the Montenegrins suffered bigger combat losses than all other partisan armies on the continent. Say 20 000 partisans of the Whites in several countries were just peanuts compared to the Yugoslavian 400 000 in 1944 and close to 800 000 in 1945. Bulgaria was set free without a shot and their only merit was that they were the only state not to send troops to the USSR. Greeks fought well but they weren’t united. Hungarians were more NAZI minded than the Germans. Romanian king was smart enough to join us in 1944. Slovaks and Czehs had some partisan movement. French resistance was organized by the Russians. Italian Communists even seized Duce ect. But it’s funny to even compare them all with the two greatest Yugoslavian armies. Only finished and irreversible bastards can do it. Do you understand that you are the one?

There is no value in attempting to deny or diminish the slaughter of the innocent regardless of their ethnicity.

Many of these perverted comments testify as to why not one generation has known peace in the Balkans.

"The governments of Serbia and the RS are together marking the anniversary of the start of the Ustasha crimes committed in the NDH."

That's absolutely something that must be remembered, but it begs the question when does the government of Serbia intend to mark the anniversary of the start of the crimes in the Nazi concentration camps in Serbia during WW2?

I hope that the government of Serbia does not consider the lives of the Serbs who were massacred in Nazi concentration camps in Serbia as less valuable than the lives of the Serbs who were massacred in Nazi concentration camps in the NDH...

Nedic was a collaborator. But he was put in charge by the Nazis only after Operation Retribution of 1941 and the subsequent occupation of Serbia. He was not elected by anyone.
(Ari Gold, 19 August 2016 21:05)

Exactly, like Pavelic who was put in charge by the Nazis after the occupation of Yugoslavia. He was not elected by the majority of the Croats.

If anything, Nazis were not able to find a collaborator in Croatia to head their puppet government there, so they had to import Pavelic from Italy. But the Nazis were able to find somebody in Serbia to head their puppet government there, if you want to play the comparison games!

In any case that makes neither the Croat, nor the Serb nation Nazi collaborators.
----------

Germans directly moved in with their military and controlled the territory.
(Ari Gold, 19 August 2016 21:05)

Yup, same thing they did in the NDH.
----------

Finally, I will finish with a quote from former Israeli ambassador to Serbia, Mr. Josef Levy: "Serbs are one of the few nations that was completely on the right side during WWII."
(Ari Gold, 19 August 2016 21:05)

Sure, and that statement does not exclude any of the other Balkan nations being among those few :) Jose Levy did not say that "Serbs were the only nation that was completely on the right side during WWII".

Serbian officials should not be allowed to stir trouble and hatred in neighboring countries. Multi-ethnic Bosnia should own its borders and ban these clowns from promoting ethnic hate.
(Albanian, 20 August 2016 20:40)

How is commemorating mass murder in the worst death camp next to Auschwitz stirring trouble and hatred? Are you deliberately trying to sound stupid or are you really that dumb that you can't even comprehend what the article says? A key part of trolling is to not come across as someone who needs help figuring out what shoe goes on the right foot every morning.

Germans directly moved in with their military and controlled the territory.
(Ari Gold, 19 August 2016 21:05)

Yup, same thing they did in the NDH.
(icj1, 20 August 2016 19:37)

It's different. Germans rolled through Zagreb and were greeted as liberators. They then left soon after and let the Ustasha run the NDH. Also, the NDH was a large state. The biggest Croatia has ever had. Do you really think the Germans came and occupied Croatia and gave them this large state against their will? Serbia was decimated and occupied, and Croatia was given all of Bosnia and parts of Vojvodina. And you see that as being equal?

Germans didn't set up concentration camps in Croatia and kill Croats. They killed Serbs in Serbia. Meanwhile the concentration camps in Croatia were ran by the Ustashe where hundred thousands of people perished. The Ustashe were the clients and Serbs were the enemies. Try to relativize all you want, there simply is nothing in common between the two.

Navi, Rote, Ari Gold

Insulting me or referring to "most historians" is not going to change what I said and its not going to give you more credibility.

Having travelled probably most countries in Europe and studied and/or worked in some of them including France, Italy, Germany, Netherlands, UK, Poland and Switzerland has given me the chance to learn about their point of view about WWII.

Frist: When it comes to WWI and WWII the only thing mentioned about the balkans is Princip. The balkans or their partisan groups have not even a footnote in school teachings in the mentioned countries above. You are just living in a bubble.

Second: While USSR was part of the alliance, none of the nazi occupied countries welcomed USSR occupation that followed afterwards. See Poland and the breakup of USSR that followed later.

Third: I know you like your heroic fight against Nazis and how important you think you were but most European countries agree that it was the involvement of the US that changed the course of the war. Not russia, Not the balkans, not France or anyone else. THE US destroyed the nazis with the help of UK, USSR and others.

Sorry guys, you were on the right bus but US was driving.

Everyone should be proud about the resistance in WWI and WWII but your are overestimating your role. Know your place.

Historical sources including those in the West regard the rump Nedic Serbia (after territory was given to Nazi-allied Croatia, Bulgaria, Hungary, and Albania) as "occupied", not "allied". This is because Nedic had no popular support from the Serb population
(the actual truth, 19 August 2016 20:15)

Yup, and that's exactly the same thing regarding the rump Pavelic NDH or Albania which were occupied by the Nazis. Indeed, both Yugoslavia and Albania were considered victors after WW2 and got reparations from that Axis countries.
----------

Nedic was a puppet in the purest sense. Pavelic was a collaborator. Big difference.
(the actual truth, 19 August 2016 20:15)

Well, according to those sources that you mentioned, Pavelic was a puppet, too (like Nedic was).
----------

Death camps in Nazi-occupied Serbia were Nazi-financed, Nazi built, and with the one exception on Banjica which you obsess over, which was indeed run by a Serbian fascist (a monster who survived numerous assassination attempts mind you, but good for you for scraping up one example and using it to describe an entire people)
(the actual truth, 19 August 2016 20:15)

That's no different compared to some people here who use, say, Pavelic or the Albanian puppet government during Nazi occupation to describe an entire people. You appear to be fine with that logic, so why you don't like it when applied to Serbia?!

I didn’t mean to persuade you because enemies like you are improved with Kalashnikov only. I just used your disgusting and irresponsible comment to remind the folks around how it was in reality when Serbs and Soviets fought the NAZI alone for the long 3 years of 1941-44. But when our Victory became inevitable all whom you have mentioned joined us to be on the right side of the history. Operation Overlord in May 1944 was the day when the USA, Britain and most Europeans JOINED WW2. Before that they had conducted colonial wars in Asia and Africa but it had nothing to do with WW2. Remember the D-Day because before that it was Soviet-German war where the two heroic Yugoslavian armies fought on the Soviet side. Now you list the states that one way or another sided Hitler and were defeated by our ancestors. And you ( сука ) want us to take into consideration what the defeated fascists’ children think about our Victory and their own Collapse. Thought you were smarter than the idiot from Bucharest but now It's clear that I was wrong. It was the Soviet flag installed in Berlin but not Swiss or Croat or Albanian or any other ! Do make a tattoo on your dirty nose to always remember it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMyCgvc33F4

The fact Serbia had quislings doesn't diminish the argument since it received little to no support among the population
(the actual truth, 21 August 2016 16:10)

Absolutely, and similarly the fact that Croatia and Albania and others had quislings doesn't diminish the argument since it received little to no support among the population.

Which is why after WW2 Yugoslavia and Albania were considered as victors and got reparations from the Axis countries.

Pavelic government was just a puppet government with the Wehrmacht being the puppeteer!
(icj1, 22 August 2016 14:56)

---

icj1, the CB of B92, is not only a steadfast practioner of Mengele-based diagnoses of ethnic groups, but icj1 is now an apologist for the Pavelic regime.

P.S. CB =Chief Bigot

@albanian
What's more scandalous is all these Kurds illegally occupying Serbian lands.

Gerhard: “Nazi invasion of the Balkans and the impact it had on delaying the Nazi invasion of Russia (Barbarossa).”

It is exactly what I wrote here: “FROM RTR-24 TV DOCUMENTAL FILM, TONIGHT : "СЕРБЫ НАМ ПОМОГЛИ, А ТО ГИТЛЕР СТОЯЛ БЫ ПОД МОСКВОЙ НЕ В ОКТЯБРЕ, А В СЕНТЯБРЕ И СОБЫТИЯ МОГЛИ ПОЙТИ ПО ИНОМУ СЦЕНАРИЮ." = “Serbs have helped us otherwise Hitler could be standing near Moscow not in October but in September and things could develop under another scenario” In Russia it is an axiom written in all school textbooks. But Russian experts are sure that we would win the war in any case. Once I read a book edited in DDR and translated into Russian. It was a fat book of memoirs composed by 9 generals and 2 colonels of the former Wehrmacht. It Russian name was WW2 VIEWWED BY THE DEFEATED = ВТОРАЯ МИРОВАЯ ГЛАЗАМИ ПОБЕЖДЕННЫХ. It was a very interesting book that in details differed from the official Soviet stance on many episodes. The conclusion was as follows: The armed forces did their best to win but the task Fuhrer of the German people was impossible to accomplish. I personally think that WW2 didn’t start in September 1939. I think that there were several local wars all over the world while the real WW2 started in May 1944 after the Overlord Operation. I also have a different stance on the Holocaust but I fail to talk about it on this forum. Last week I wrote to you about it but it was filtered out by the b92 moderator. USSR/Russia has never admitted the idea too.

Gerhard

In your comment you have mentioned also the Barbarossa Plan. The first thing that came to my mind about the meaning was Barbar Rossa i.e. BARBAR RUSSIAN. I found official interpretation about the red beard but with 1500 character limit I can’t go to the details of how absurd it sounds so I send you to the New Chronology site to see that I was not the only one to think so:

“ Having colonized Western Europe, The Russian Horde Empire – represented by the Emperor Barbarossa (Barbarian Ross) - could easily have created there a center of worship for their Saintly Czars-Three Wise Men-Magi.” They prove that Friedrich I Gogenschtauffen and Friedrich I Rotbart and Friedrich I Barbarossa and Friedrich III Barbarossa and Karl V and Ivan III/IV Grozny were ONE MAN.

http://chronologia.org/en/how_it_was/02_04.html

Strange as it is but I’ve found 2 other men named Barbarossa. This time in the Ottoman Empire the south wing of the Russian Horde. According to my own calculations Barbarossa was Tsar Vasily III/IV Temny father of Ivan III Grozny. In Turkish history he is known as Haireddin II Barbarossa or admiral Piri Reis Barbarossa or Barbarossa Hizir Haireddin-Pasha.

They say as if he inherited a several hundred ship strong pirate fleet from his elder brother Arudge I Barbarossa … They say he was the richest man and died in his castle in Istanbul while his famous map finds no explanation …

Germans directly moved in with their military and controlled the territory.
(Ari Gold, 19 August 2016 21:05)

Yup, same thing they did in the NDH.
(icj1, 20 August 2016 19:37)

It's different. Germans rolled through Zagreb and were greeted as liberators. They then left soon after and let the Ustasha run the NDH.
(Ari Gold, 21 August 2016 13:56)

Well, according to the Nuremberg trials, Germans were in charge in the NDH and the Pavelic government was just a puppet government with the Wehrmacht being the puppeteer!

Absolutely, and similarly the fact that Croatia and Albania and others had quislings doesn't diminish the argument since it received little to no support among the population.

###

This comment by icj1 is revisionism and it is illogical.

If it is true, then why were they able to fight 4 years until they were extinguished by the Partisans and Chetniks?

How were they able to field so many men?

Why were they not extinguished early?

Why did the Roman Catholic prelate Stepinac support them openly if they had no support of the people?

As usual, very wobbly analysis by icj1

special for Gjorn Marku


FROM RTR-24 TV DOCUMENTAL FILM, TONIGHT : "СЕРБЫ НАМ ПОМОГЛИ, А ТО ГИТЛЕР СТОЯЛ БЫ ПОД МОСКВОЙ НЕ В ОКТЯБРЕ, А В СЕНТЯБРЕ И СОБЫТИЯ МОГЛИ ПОЙТИ ПО ИНОМУ СЦЕНАРИЮ." So you may equalize Serbs with whoever you like but your dirty mouth and your dirty hands cannot reach Russia where millions know who was who in that war. It is our second religion that can be destroyed only together with us. We do remember how the invaders behaved here and how our army was met in one country or another. 17 countries sent here their brigades, divisions and armies but we did not punish their peoples and it was a big mistake I think.

That's no different compared to some people here who use, say, Pavelic or the Albanian puppet government during Nazi occupation to describe an entire people. You appear to be fine with that logic, so why you don't like it when applied to Serbia?!
(icj1, 20 August 2016 20:00)

---

Ironic that icj1, the CB of B92, refers to his/her common process of of bigoted branding of entire people. The CB of B92 is an admirer of Mengele-warped medicine. icj1 conjures fictitious diagnoses for an entire ethnic group and labels people with neurological disorders without any physical facts or evidence.

PS CB=Chief Bigot

Absolutely, and similarly the fact that Croatia and Albania and others had quislings doesn't diminish the argument since it received little to no support among the population.

(icj1, 21 August 2016 23:35)

---

icj1, the CB if B92, is a first hand expert on such support. icj1, is steadfast supporter of Mengele-based unethical medical diagnoses. icj1 conjures fictitious diagnoses for an entire ethnic group without any physical facts or evidence. icj1's unscholarly grasp of medical science permeates his/her polluted comprehension of historical facts.

P.S. CB= Chief Bigot

Germans directly moved in with their military and controlled the territory.
(Ari Gold, 19 August 2016 21:05)

Yup, same thing they did in the NDH.
(icj1, 20 August 2016 19:37)

It's different. Germans rolled through Zagreb and were greeted as liberators. They then left soon after and let the Ustasha run the NDH.
(Ari Gold, 21 August 2016 13:56)

Well, according to the Nuremberg trials, Germans were in charge in the NDH and the Pavelic government was just a puppet government with the Wehrmacht being the puppeteer!

@ rote
Thanks for the information. I'm not a scholar of the World Wars but have enjoyed reading about them in my free time. Mussolini's actions in Greece did not help Hitler as well as the Yugoslav's decision to fight capitulation. I will have to find the time to read again about the delay and specifics of Operation Barbarossa.

The fact Serbia had quislings doesn't diminish the argument since it received little to no support among the population 
(the actual truth, 21 August 2016 16:10) 

Absolutely, and similarly the fact that Croatia and Albania and others had quislings doesn't diminish the argument since it received little to no support among the population. 

Which is why after WW2 Yugoslavia and Albania were considered as victors and got reparations from the Axis countries.
(icj1, 21 August 2016 23:35) 

This comment by icj1 is revisionism and it is illogical. 
(factman, 23 August 2016 14:17) 

The fact that Yugoslavia and Albania were considered WW2 victors and even got reparations has been known for about 70 years mate, it's not something that is being revised now lol But, I totally understand that for somebody like you who seldom checks facts, that might be a suprise!

Now, if what I wrote is "illogical" as you say, then according to you, the "logical" comment would be that because Serbia, Albania and Croatia had quislings, than that diminishes the argument that they were on the right bus during WW2!

Prince Paul of Yu ( Serb ) was the first to accept Nazi Germany on Balkan soil. Don't pretend that your Anti Fascist when your worse then Pavelic. Even the Jews have no time for you people. No Jewish politician from Israel has ever visited the myth of Jasenovac.

Let's erect a monument to the Butcher of the Balkans Slobodan Milosevic but to deflect attention away from public scrutiny let's bring up the NDH and the inflated figures at Jasenovac. The world couldn't care less about Serb victims. What's important to the world especially to Angelina Jolie is that the Stebrenica genocide is never to be forgotten. Even Biden has no clue which country he is visiting when he mentions ' Croatia is making progress '.

Sure the majority was against Nazis as it was the case for every other balkan nation. I hate to disappoint you but serbia was neither exceptional nor anyhow special. It was rehabiltated and recognised as imposed collaboration just like all countries in the balkans. You didnt play a special role nor does the world give you credit for some form of a special role among your neighbors.

I see why it is so important for serbia to create the myth of an underdog hero in the region and blame anyone else. If you dont have anything to stand out then at least try to push everyone around you down. Its a common practice of people with an inferiority complex.

I didnt expect more from a weak nation living in denial with a fake identity and a grotesque history.

But the Germans knew they could only succeed if they personally and directly occupy Central Serbia with their own military. And so they did, killing every Jew and 10s of thousands of Serbs within a few short years.

But nothing compared to the destruction that took place in Jasenovac. Both in size and level of savagery. 700,000 Serbs, Jews, Roma and anti-fascist Croats were slaughtered in the most grotesque of fashions [link]

Serbs for their part formed two anti-fascist guerrilla groups. But paid a huge price for their resistance to the Nazis. And Israel's ambassador to Bosnia attends every year. RIP to the victims. ☦✡
(Ari Gold, 19 August 2016 16:08)

You forgot to mention Nedic submitting to Nazi Germany and running the country with with the Serbian State Guard (approx. 20k-25k Nazi loyal Serb soldiers)

Also while it is true that Serbia was under Nazi administration it was never occupied. Just like other Balkans countries, Serbia was one of many Nazi vassals. It didnt have any special role or whatever. Nazis only had supervision, never a large military force in Serbia. See the Banjica Concentration Camp for exemple (The director was a serb and the staff were serbs)

What are the names of these anti-fascist guerilla groups? Partisans where founded by Tito, a croat, and was a multinational partisan group. Chetniks fought against anyone non Serb and was not a anti-fascist group in particular with the goal of creating "Greater Serbia"

This is scandalous. Serbian officials should not be allowed to stir trouble and hatred in neighboring countries. Multi-ethnic Bosnia should own its borders and ban these clowns from promoting ethnic hate.

Serbs should never forgett the crimes commited against its people by croats, bosnjaks and especially albanians. Let the world know what animals Serbia is surrounded by. Murderers, rapists and landgrabbers. Justice will prevail.

Devout Christian : Don't pretend that your Anti Fascist


КРЕСТА НА ТЕБЕ НЕТ ! We Russians know better than anyone else who, since when and how good fought on our side. And Serbs are the champions here. Because they composed tha absolute majority of the only two armies that fought Hitler in Europe. Polish Armia Kraiova was as big as Tito’s army but they did not fight the Nazi while Tito’s strategy was to seize any village or a town for a month, a week, a day or an hour. Michailovic had other tactics so his army could accumulate up to 150 000 for some operations to be dismissed soon after. Total combat losses of the two Yugoslavian armies in WW2 were above 300 000. Those were second big combat losses during WW2 after the USSR because half of the US combat losses (360 000) were suffered from Japan and it had nothing to do with WW2. Third big were combat losses of Britain (222 000 against 2 000 000 in WW1). Then came Poland with 123 000 but Poland suffered more losses within Wermaht. Croats were worse than anybody else as 90% of them were Ustasha minded. You know why Tito saved them from Nurnberg Tribunal. Same as why Britain saved France and USSR saved Poland. So tell your stories to someone else - we register the score. PS – Greeks and the Brits too fought good but it wasn’t a national wide war as in the case with the Montenegrins and the Serbs. They saved more Soviet lives than anybody else! Just think about – we lost 600 000 when liberating Poland and 7900 in Yugoslavia!

(Gjon Marku, 19 August 2016 17:27)

-Nedic was a collaborator. But he was put in charge by the Nazis only after Operation Retribution of 1941 and the subsequent occupation of Serbia. He was not elected by anyone. Most of the soldiers that worked with him were Germans. Serbia has had a history of such collaborators. There were even Jewish collaborators with the Nazis.

-Serbia was occupied because Belgrade was bombed worse than during the 90s and the Germans directly moved in with their military and controlled the territory. What is that if not an occupation? The answer to this occupation was forming the majority of two anti-fascist resistance groups.

-Banjica Concentration Camp was ran directly by Germans. More Serbs and Jews were killed side by side. More Serbs died there than any other group.

-The Partizans were founded by Milan Gorkic, a Serb. Later Tito took over. But in Croatia alone, 65% of his soldiers were Serb. And that's before we take Serbia and Bosnia into account.

-The Chetniks were multi ethnic but majority Serb, just like the Partizans. Here are several picture of Bosniak Muslims Chetniks who fought for General Draza Mihailovich http://www.telegraf.rs/vesti/813374-muslimani-a-cetnici-borili-se-s-drazom-za-kralja-nikad-s-titom-foto

Finally, I will finish with a quote from former Israeli ambassador to Serbia, Mr. Josef Levy: "Serbs are one of the few nations that was completely on the right side during WWII."

Prince Paul of Yu ( Serb ) was the first to accept Nazi Germany on Balkan soil.
(Devout Christian, 19 August 2016 13:34)

You're right. Prince Paul did accept Nazi Germany. And that's why literally 3 days after he signed the pact, Serbs overthrew him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat The Croatians and Bosniaks especially hated this. They wanted a pact with Germany and were willing to break up Yugoslavia to secure their place as Nazi puppets.

Then after Serbs overthrew Prince Paul, the Nazis launched "Operation Retribution" which bombed Belgrade into the ground and split Yugoslavia up. The Germans let the Croats have their large Nazi state "NDH" where Jasenovac and 23 other concentration camps were established. But the Germans knew they could only succeed if they personally and directly occupy Central Serbia with their own military. And so they did, killing every Jew and 10s of thousands of Serbs within a few short years.

But nothing compared to the destruction that took place in Jasenovac. Both in size and level of savagery. 700,000 Serbs, Jews, Roma and anti-fascist Croats were slaughtered in the most grotesque of fashions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srbosjek

Serbs for their part formed two anti-fascist guerrilla groups. But paid a huge price for their resistance to the Nazis. And Israel's ambassador to Bosnia attends every year. RIP to the victims. ☦✡

@Gjon

I see you're once again attempting to use arguments that were debunked last time. So let's review this carefully and slowly so even your attempt at historical revisionism will be clarified:

1. Historical sources including those in the West regard the rump Nedic Serbia (after territory was given to Nazi-allied Croatia, Bulgaria, Hungary, and Albania) as "occupied", not "allied". This is because Nedic had no popular support from the Serb population who continued to look to the Yugoslav government-in-exile living in London, which recognized the resistance movement of the Chetniks under Draza.

Nedic was a puppet in the purest sense. Pavelic was a collaborator. Big difference.

2. Death camps in Nazi-occupied Serbia were Nazi-financed, Nazi built, and with the one exception on Banjica which you obsess over, which was indeed run by a Serbian fascist (a monster who survived numerous assassination attempts mind you, but good for you for scraping up one example and using it to describe an entire people), the rest of the camps were German administered. That you could find local volunteers implicates Albanians in Kosovo as much as Serbs but you love to argue that Albanians saved all their Jews. Which was wrong.

3. Tito was a Croat by the bulk of his Partisans came from Serb support - many of who defected from Chetniks when they didn't fight back enough. Plus Serbs were among the most ardent supporters of SFRJ in the years following.

You're welcome.

And how many delegates from Croats will be attending this ceremony?
Let me guess, ZERO!
To this day Croatia continues to cover up and deny their horrible crimes, yet at the same time they rehabilitate fascism through the Ustasha greeting, Erecting a monument to Baresic and to annul the war crimes of Stepinac!
This just re-confirms what everyone knows, that the Ustashi NDH spirit is alive and well in Croatia!
Despicable!

And how many delegates from Croats will be attending this ceremony?
Let me guess, ZERO!
(Shame on Croatia, 19 August 2016 12:51)

They already sent the revisionist Hasanbegovic to make an ass of himself and embarrass the Croatian people by denying Jasenovac was really a death camp. That of course was before they exonerated Stepinac and erected statues to Ustasha terrorists while chanting fascist slogans at Thompson's only concert of note every year.

Don't forget the icing on the cake. Concentration camps for children. scum.

Too late now Serbia, Serbian people stayed quiet too long! The Serbian people who after World War Two remained in the Otacbina kept a very tight lip to please their new found saviour the mortal god Tito and the Serbian people who were displaced and went out into the Tugina also forgot who they were and what happened to them with a little money in their pockets from the new world! So all in all what happened to Serbia and Slavic Eastern Orthodox Christianity in the Balkans during the 1990's and continuing idefinately is our own Serbian problem, no one else to blame but our selves! After World War Two all Serbian people so quiet about the horrific murder of Eastern Orthodox Christianity in the Balkans, what Serbian ever brought it up officially? The subject regarding the horrific murder's of Serbian people kept silent only to please Tito who already put his plan of action for the next hollocast of the 1990's! What is incredible is the fact that the displaced Serbian people who went on into the Tugina how they also forgot every thing and kept so quiet! So no one else to blame but our selves, the Serbian people are responsable for their own destruction!!!

Even the Jews have no time for you people. No Jewish politician from Israel has ever visited the myth of Jasenovac.
(Devout Christian, 19 August 2016 13:34)

The myth? You are an idiot! You do Croatians proud with your stupidity.

Israeli president visits Jasenovac.
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/region.php?yyyy=2010&mm=07&dd=26&nav_id=68695

United States Holocaust Museum-Jasenovac
https://www.ushmm.org/search/results/?q=jasenovac

Jews and Serbs boycott Croatia's remembrance of death camp victims
http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Jews-and-Serbs-boycott-Croatias-remembrance-of-death-camp-victims-452055

Fascists commemorate the victims of other fascists.

The real anti-fascists are those who condemn ALL the fascists, regardless their nationality.

Navi, Rote, Ari Gold

Insulting me or referring to "most historians" is not going to change what I said and its not going to give you more credibility.

Having travelled probably most countries in Europe and studied and/or worked in some of them including France, Italy, Germany, Netherlands, UK, Poland and Switzerland has given me the chance to learn about their point of view about WWII.

Frist: When it comes to WWI and WWII the only thing mentioned about the balkans is Princip. The balkans or their partisan groups have not even a footnote in school teachings in the mentioned countries above. You are just living in a bubble.

Second: While USSR was part of the alliance, none of the nazi occupied countries welcomed USSR occupation that followed afterwards. See Poland and the breakup of USSR that followed later.

Third: I know you like your heroic fight against Nazis and how important you think you were but most European countries agree that it was the involvement of the US that changed the course of the war. Not russia, Not the balkans, not France or anyone else. THE US destroyed the nazis with the help of UK, USSR and others.

Sorry guys, you were on the right bus but US was driving.

Everyone should be proud about the resistance in WWI and WWII but your are overestimating your role. Know your place.

Historical sources including those in the West regard the rump Nedic Serbia (after territory was given to Nazi-allied Croatia, Bulgaria, Hungary, and Albania) as "occupied", not "allied". This is because Nedic had no popular support from the Serb population
(the actual truth, 19 August 2016 20:15)

Yup, and that's exactly the same thing regarding the rump Pavelic NDH or Albania which were occupied by the Nazis. Indeed, both Yugoslavia and Albania were considered victors after WW2 and got reparations from that Axis countries.
----------

Nedic was a puppet in the purest sense. Pavelic was a collaborator. Big difference.
(the actual truth, 19 August 2016 20:15)

Well, according to those sources that you mentioned, Pavelic was a puppet, too (like Nedic was).
----------

Death camps in Nazi-occupied Serbia were Nazi-financed, Nazi built, and with the one exception on Banjica which you obsess over, which was indeed run by a Serbian fascist (a monster who survived numerous assassination attempts mind you, but good for you for scraping up one example and using it to describe an entire people)
(the actual truth, 19 August 2016 20:15)

That's no different compared to some people here who use, say, Pavelic or the Albanian puppet government during Nazi occupation to describe an entire people. You appear to be fine with that logic, so why you don't like it when applied to Serbia?!

"The governments of Serbia and the RS are together marking the anniversary of the start of the Ustasha crimes committed in the NDH."

That's absolutely something that must be remembered, but it begs the question when does the government of Serbia intend to mark the anniversary of the start of the crimes in the Nazi concentration camps in Serbia during WW2?

I hope that the government of Serbia does not consider the lives of the Serbs who were massacred in Nazi concentration camps in Serbia as less valuable than the lives of the Serbs who were massacred in Nazi concentration camps in the NDH...

Nedic was a collaborator. But he was put in charge by the Nazis only after Operation Retribution of 1941 and the subsequent occupation of Serbia. He was not elected by anyone.
(Ari Gold, 19 August 2016 21:05)

Exactly, like Pavelic who was put in charge by the Nazis after the occupation of Yugoslavia. He was not elected by the majority of the Croats.

If anything, Nazis were not able to find a collaborator in Croatia to head their puppet government there, so they had to import Pavelic from Italy. But the Nazis were able to find somebody in Serbia to head their puppet government there, if you want to play the comparison games!

In any case that makes neither the Croat, nor the Serb nation Nazi collaborators.
----------

Germans directly moved in with their military and controlled the territory.
(Ari Gold, 19 August 2016 21:05)

Yup, same thing they did in the NDH.
----------

Finally, I will finish with a quote from former Israeli ambassador to Serbia, Mr. Josef Levy: "Serbs are one of the few nations that was completely on the right side during WWII."
(Ari Gold, 19 August 2016 21:05)

Sure, and that statement does not exclude any of the other Balkan nations being among those few :) Jose Levy did not say that "Serbs were the only nation that was completely on the right side during WWII".

I didn’t mean to persuade you because enemies like you are improved with Kalashnikov only. I just used your disgusting and irresponsible comment to remind the folks around how it was in reality when Serbs and Soviets fought the NAZI alone for the long 3 years of 1941-44. But when our Victory became inevitable all whom you have mentioned joined us to be on the right side of the history. Operation Overlord in May 1944 was the day when the USA, Britain and most Europeans JOINED WW2. Before that they had conducted colonial wars in Asia and Africa but it had nothing to do with WW2. Remember the D-Day because before that it was Soviet-German war where the two heroic Yugoslavian armies fought on the Soviet side. Now you list the states that one way or another sided Hitler and were defeated by our ancestors. And you ( сука ) want us to take into consideration what the defeated fascists’ children think about our Victory and their own Collapse. Thought you were smarter than the idiot from Bucharest but now It's clear that I was wrong. It was the Soviet flag installed in Berlin but not Swiss or Croat or Albanian or any other ! Do make a tattoo on your dirty nose to always remember it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMyCgvc33F4

Germans directly moved in with their military and controlled the territory.
(Ari Gold, 19 August 2016 21:05)

Yup, same thing they did in the NDH.
(icj1, 20 August 2016 19:37)

It's different. Germans rolled through Zagreb and were greeted as liberators. They then left soon after and let the Ustasha run the NDH. Also, the NDH was a large state. The biggest Croatia has ever had. Do you really think the Germans came and occupied Croatia and gave them this large state against their will? Serbia was decimated and occupied, and Croatia was given all of Bosnia and parts of Vojvodina. And you see that as being equal?

Germans didn't set up concentration camps in Croatia and kill Croats. They killed Serbs in Serbia. Meanwhile the concentration camps in Croatia were ran by the Ustashe where hundred thousands of people perished. The Ustashe were the clients and Serbs were the enemies. Try to relativize all you want, there simply is nothing in common between the two.

I hate to disappoint you but serbia was neither exceptional nor anyhow special.
(Gjon Marku, 20 August 2016 00:21)

News flash bubba, no one ever said it was. Both Ari and I have been saying Serbia's historical role in WWII is what is widely regarded by historians while you try to equate a small and historically inconsequential quisling government to one of the worst collaborationist states of Nazi-occupied Europe. We're not the ones living in denial with a fake identity and grotesque history. You're the one bending historical reality to make a point you know you can't hold but you're sticking to because of your own prejudices.

Again news flash: it's a bit difficult to take seriously the narrative of Serbia being a strong Allied resistor when two-thirds of your country is given to neighboring Nazi allies, a third of your people are systematically targeted by the SS, and another third and rounded up and thrown in NDH concentration camps. The fact that the remaining third openly and brazenly joined Partisan and Chetnik movements attests that they were, as you said, on the right bus, even if it was driven by someone else.

That's never been questioned. The fact Serbia had quislings doesn't diminish the argument since it received little to no support among the population and has never been attempted to be whitewashed. You're pushing an argument that has no empirical merit and argued into a corner you still come across as a self-righteous ass.

Gjon Marku : serbia was neither exceptional nor anyhow special. It was rehabiltated and recognised as imposed collaboration just like all countries in the balkans.

How dare you ! Nobody stood even close to the Serbs. There were only 3 partisan armies in Europe - one in the USSR and two in Serbia. All other “how I won the war stories” were written WITH INK and AFTER the war while Serbs and Montenegrins wrote their history WITH THEIR BLOOD and DURING the war. They started their war in 1941 while all the rest joined them only in late 1944 - early 1945. The two partisan armies composed mostly of the Serbs and the Montenegrins suffered bigger combat losses than all other partisan armies on the continent. Say 20 000 partisans of the Whites in several countries were just peanuts compared to the Yugoslavian 400 000 in 1944 and close to 800 000 in 1945. Bulgaria was set free without a shot and their only merit was that they were the only state not to send troops to the USSR. Greeks fought well but they weren’t united. Hungarians were more NAZI minded than the Germans. Romanian king was smart enough to join us in 1944. Slovaks and Czehs had some partisan movement. French resistance was organized by the Russians. Italian Communists even seized Duce ect. But it’s funny to even compare them all with the two greatest Yugoslavian armies. Only finished and irreversible bastards can do it. Do you understand that you are the one?

special for Gjorn Marku


FROM RTR-24 TV DOCUMENTAL FILM, TONIGHT : "СЕРБЫ НАМ ПОМОГЛИ, А ТО ГИТЛЕР СТОЯЛ БЫ ПОД МОСКВОЙ НЕ В ОКТЯБРЕ, А В СЕНТЯБРЕ И СОБЫТИЯ МОГЛИ ПОЙТИ ПО ИНОМУ СЦЕНАРИЮ." So you may equalize Serbs with whoever you like but your dirty mouth and your dirty hands cannot reach Russia where millions know who was who in that war. It is our second religion that can be destroyed only together with us. We do remember how the invaders behaved here and how our army was met in one country or another. 17 countries sent here their brigades, divisions and armies but we did not punish their peoples and it was a big mistake I think.

@albanian
What's more scandalous is all these Kurds illegally occupying Serbian lands.

Serbian officials should not be allowed to stir trouble and hatred in neighboring countries. Multi-ethnic Bosnia should own its borders and ban these clowns from promoting ethnic hate.
(Albanian, 20 August 2016 20:40)

How is commemorating mass murder in the worst death camp next to Auschwitz stirring trouble and hatred? Are you deliberately trying to sound stupid or are you really that dumb that you can't even comprehend what the article says? A key part of trolling is to not come across as someone who needs help figuring out what shoe goes on the right foot every morning.

That's no different compared to some people here who use, say, Pavelic or the Albanian puppet government during Nazi occupation to describe an entire people. You appear to be fine with that logic, so why you don't like it when applied to Serbia?!
(icj1, 20 August 2016 20:00)

---

Ironic that icj1, the CB of B92, refers to his/her common process of of bigoted branding of entire people. The CB of B92 is an admirer of Mengele-warped medicine. icj1 conjures fictitious diagnoses for an entire ethnic group and labels people with neurological disorders without any physical facts or evidence.

PS CB=Chief Bigot

" When it comes to WWI and WWII the only thing mentioned about the balkans is Princip.
(Gjon Marku, 21 August 2016 13:58)

Really? Your arrogance is misplaced.
Much has been written about the Nazi invasion of the Balkans and the impact it had on delaying the Nazi invasion of Russia (Barbarossa).
Karl Ritter, German Foreign Office Liaison Officer with the Nazi High Command. "This delay," he stated, "cost the Germans the winter battle before Moscow, and it was there that the war was lost." (Quoted by Memoirs Anthony Eden, British Foreign Minister).
You appear to believe that your opinions make you an expert. Know your place.

To the dudes below that say Jasenovac was a myth, see the United States Holcaust Memorial Museum:

Parag 7:
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005449

"The Croat authorities murdered between 320,000 and 340,000 ethnic Serb residents of Croatia and Bosnia during the period of Ustasha rule" (This is in addition to the 100k at Jasenovac. And the 40k at Stara Gradiska).

Gerhard: “Nazi invasion of the Balkans and the impact it had on delaying the Nazi invasion of Russia (Barbarossa).”

It is exactly what I wrote here: “FROM RTR-24 TV DOCUMENTAL FILM, TONIGHT : "СЕРБЫ НАМ ПОМОГЛИ, А ТО ГИТЛЕР СТОЯЛ БЫ ПОД МОСКВОЙ НЕ В ОКТЯБРЕ, А В СЕНТЯБРЕ И СОБЫТИЯ МОГЛИ ПОЙТИ ПО ИНОМУ СЦЕНАРИЮ." = “Serbs have helped us otherwise Hitler could be standing near Moscow not in October but in September and things could develop under another scenario” In Russia it is an axiom written in all school textbooks. But Russian experts are sure that we would win the war in any case. Once I read a book edited in DDR and translated into Russian. It was a fat book of memoirs composed by 9 generals and 2 colonels of the former Wehrmacht. It Russian name was WW2 VIEWWED BY THE DEFEATED = ВТОРАЯ МИРОВАЯ ГЛАЗАМИ ПОБЕЖДЕННЫХ. It was a very interesting book that in details differed from the official Soviet stance on many episodes. The conclusion was as follows: The armed forces did their best to win but the task Fuhrer of the German people was impossible to accomplish. I personally think that WW2 didn’t start in September 1939. I think that there were several local wars all over the world while the real WW2 started in May 1944 after the Overlord Operation. I also have a different stance on the Holocaust but I fail to talk about it on this forum. Last week I wrote to you about it but it was filtered out by the b92 moderator. USSR/Russia has never admitted the idea too.

Germans directly moved in with their military and controlled the territory.
(Ari Gold, 19 August 2016 21:05)

Yup, same thing they did in the NDH.
(icj1, 20 August 2016 19:37)

It's different. Germans rolled through Zagreb and were greeted as liberators. They then left soon after and let the Ustasha run the NDH.
(Ari Gold, 21 August 2016 13:56)

Well, according to the Nuremberg trials, Germans were in charge in the NDH and the Pavelic government was just a puppet government with the Wehrmacht being the puppeteer!

@ rote
Thanks for the information. I'm not a scholar of the World Wars but have enjoyed reading about them in my free time. Mussolini's actions in Greece did not help Hitler as well as the Yugoslav's decision to fight capitulation. I will have to find the time to read again about the delay and specifics of Operation Barbarossa.

@ Dragoljub Djurkovic, not all Serbs who emigrated abroad got little money in their pocket, many struggle to make ends meet even after many years in tugina....this is a sad perception of Serbians that everyone who leaves earn a load of money and live in mansions. Not true at all. Many die alone and pennyless in the new world. Look at Nikola Tesla as just one example. But not all those pennyless Serbs were great scientists so you won't hear about those Serbs.

Sure the majority was against Nazis as it was the case for every other balkan nation. I hate to disappoint you but serbia was neither exceptional nor anyhow special.
(Gjon Marku, 20 August 2016 00:21)

Actually, most historians agree that the Serbs tearing up Yugoslavia's pact with Hitler put his plans of invading the USSR off for a precious 6 weeks. This led to the Germans invading closer to the end of the year, and ultimately perishing due to the harsh Russian winters which they were not prepared for. So if it weren't for Serbs and their resistance, the Nazis would have controlled the USSR and the war would have lasted for a lot longer than it did.

I didnt expect more from a weak nation living in denial with a fake identity and a grotesque history.
(Gjon Marku, 20 August 2016 00:21)

Don't feel bad. You couldn't help being educated with textbooks approved by the Hoxha regime. The only difference you can make is if you choose to accept that your history and identity are fabricated myths to compensate for a people that have little to no contributions to Western civilization. You'll be a better person for it.

The fact Serbia had quislings doesn't diminish the argument since it received little to no support among the population
(the actual truth, 21 August 2016 16:10)

Absolutely, and similarly the fact that Croatia and Albania and others had quislings doesn't diminish the argument since it received little to no support among the population.

Which is why after WW2 Yugoslavia and Albania were considered as victors and got reparations from the Axis countries.

Gerhard

In your comment you have mentioned also the Barbarossa Plan. The first thing that came to my mind about the meaning was Barbar Rossa i.e. BARBAR RUSSIAN. I found official interpretation about the red beard but with 1500 character limit I can’t go to the details of how absurd it sounds so I send you to the New Chronology site to see that I was not the only one to think so:

“ Having colonized Western Europe, The Russian Horde Empire – represented by the Emperor Barbarossa (Barbarian Ross) - could easily have created there a center of worship for their Saintly Czars-Three Wise Men-Magi.” They prove that Friedrich I Gogenschtauffen and Friedrich I Rotbart and Friedrich I Barbarossa and Friedrich III Barbarossa and Karl V and Ivan III/IV Grozny were ONE MAN.

http://chronologia.org/en/how_it_was/02_04.html

Strange as it is but I’ve found 2 other men named Barbarossa. This time in the Ottoman Empire the south wing of the Russian Horde. According to my own calculations Barbarossa was Tsar Vasily III/IV Temny father of Ivan III Grozny. In Turkish history he is known as Haireddin II Barbarossa or admiral Piri Reis Barbarossa or Barbarossa Hizir Haireddin-Pasha.

They say as if he inherited a several hundred ship strong pirate fleet from his elder brother Arudge I Barbarossa … They say he was the richest man and died in his castle in Istanbul while his famous map finds no explanation …

Absolutely, and similarly the fact that Croatia and Albania and others had quislings doesn't diminish the argument since it received little to no support among the population.

(icj1, 21 August 2016 23:35)

---

icj1, the CB if B92, is a first hand expert on such support. icj1, is steadfast supporter of Mengele-based unethical medical diagnoses. icj1 conjures fictitious diagnoses for an entire ethnic group without any physical facts or evidence. icj1's unscholarly grasp of medical science permeates his/her polluted comprehension of historical facts.

P.S. CB= Chief Bigot

Germans directly moved in with their military and controlled the territory.
(Ari Gold, 19 August 2016 21:05)

Yup, same thing they did in the NDH.
(icj1, 20 August 2016 19:37)

It's different. Germans rolled through Zagreb and were greeted as liberators. They then left soon after and let the Ustasha run the NDH.
(Ari Gold, 21 August 2016 13:56)

Well, according to the Nuremberg trials, Germans were in charge in the NDH and the Pavelic government was just a puppet government with the Wehrmacht being the puppeteer!

Pavelic government was just a puppet government with the Wehrmacht being the puppeteer!
(icj1, 22 August 2016 14:56)

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icj1, the CB of B92, is not only a steadfast practioner of Mengele-based diagnoses of ethnic groups, but icj1 is now an apologist for the Pavelic regime.

P.S. CB =Chief Bigot

Absolutely, and similarly the fact that Croatia and Albania and others had quislings doesn't diminish the argument since it received little to no support among the population.

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This comment by icj1 is revisionism and it is illogical.

If it is true, then why were they able to fight 4 years until they were extinguished by the Partisans and Chetniks?

How were they able to field so many men?

Why were they not extinguished early?

Why did the Roman Catholic prelate Stepinac support them openly if they had no support of the people?

As usual, very wobbly analysis by icj1

There is no value in attempting to deny or diminish the slaughter of the innocent regardless of their ethnicity.

Many of these perverted comments testify as to why not one generation has known peace in the Balkans.

The fact Serbia had quislings doesn't diminish the argument since it received little to no support among the population 
(the actual truth, 21 August 2016 16:10) 

Absolutely, and similarly the fact that Croatia and Albania and others had quislings doesn't diminish the argument since it received little to no support among the population. 

Which is why after WW2 Yugoslavia and Albania were considered as victors and got reparations from the Axis countries.
(icj1, 21 August 2016 23:35) 

This comment by icj1 is revisionism and it is illogical. 
(factman, 23 August 2016 14:17) 

The fact that Yugoslavia and Albania were considered WW2 victors and even got reparations has been known for about 70 years mate, it's not something that is being revised now lol But, I totally understand that for somebody like you who seldom checks facts, that might be a suprise!

Now, if what I wrote is "illogical" as you say, then according to you, the "logical" comment would be that because Serbia, Albania and Croatia had quislings, than that diminishes the argument that they were on the right bus during WW2!