Monday, 18.04.2016.
11:54
Tomislav Nikolic was on the Greek island of Vido on Monday, where he spoke on the 100th anniversary of the landing there of the evacuated Serbian troops.
Izvor: Beta
IMAGE SOURCE
pre 8 godina
(icj1, 20 April 2016 03:04)
There you have it. Our resident babbler, the AI or aka icj1... knows that the land deeds are in a file cabinet in Belgrade.
(sj, 20 April 2016 10:35)
All credit goes to our dear friend factman since it was him/her to discover that important file cabinet in Belgrade. I'm sure he/she will appreciate the recognition by the CE of B92 forums sj :)
P.S. CE = Chief Economist
pre 8 godina
Jugoslavija : “You failed to explain why the Serbian insurrection in 1804 was "different”
If you look through your own comment and reread mine you will find that in the context I said that in early 19 century the Ottomans were in the same position that the Serbs were in the 90-th. Both defended their territorial integrity and the existing laws. But you blamed the Shqips for defending the Ottomans whom they obeyed at the time. For the Ottomans both Greeks and Serbs were separatists … As simple as that. Greeks were granted with their fantastic history then.
Now concerning my vision of the events. In 1775 the Siberian-American Russian State marked in Encyclopedia of Britannica of 1771 (page 883) as Great Tartaria was defeated. It was the biggest and the last independent piece of the Great Horde. The Russians were attacked from two sides. The Romanovs invaded Siberia while the USA moved to the continent where only Russian Indians lived. Germany sent about 230 000 men reinforcement to America and God knows how many to Siberia.
Next in 1798 Napoleon invaded Egypt to find place for Jerusalem. There he met the Russian Mameluks and he defeated therm. He robbed the pyramids and destroyed the Sphinx but later he had to run back home.
Then Britain and France started to provoke Christians to rebel. Because the Ottomans were the only part of the former Horde that was not destroyed yet. As a result the Armenians , Greeks and Yezids were massacred. The rest you know.
pre 8 godina
(sj, 20 April 2016 10:35)
Well i will say:
AI = "Adorable" Albanian Intelligence!
pre 8 godina
@rote
You failed to explain why the Serbian insurrection in 1804 was "different". Karadjeordjevic was the only Balkan leader to overthrow the Turkish garrisons. Russian prince Alexander Ypsilanti failed miserably to being promised support and was trounced in Romania. Now let me hear your alternative history and who was Ypsilanti according to your version of history.
pre 8 godina
1. UK killed every last Druid and Celt to get their land
Need I go on.
(factman, 18 April 2016 18:29)
As mentioned previously, an awful lot of people should begin to read.
'The UK killed every last druid and Celt to get their land'?
The Romans will be pleased. The mere thought that the Romans would pursue the Druids to Anglesey and wipe them out as played heavily on there conscience for two millennia.
They will be grateful to be exonerated by your good self.
The nonsense people read and believe, the future is safe ........... I hope!
pre 8 godina
(icj1, 20 April 2016 03:04)
There you have it. Our resident babbler, the AI or aka icj1, not to be confused with icj its first persona, sees how the Serbs were the only ones not to exterminate the indigenous locals 1500 years ago and knows that the land deeds are in a file cabinet in Belgrade.
I can only guess that out resident AI aka icj1 is in a world of its own where fairies and pixies live in harmony.
It only broke out of that psychotic episode to enlighten us all. Now back to the foetal position rocking backwards and forwards and babbling about PS CE= Chief Economist, sj commands/orders.
PS AI = You know what it stands for…..
pre 8 godina
Well, my dear i don’t like to much talk in vain! You tell to me that Albanians did genocide against you but actually I just find “ The massacres of Albanians” ? You did Genocide against Albanians but your Big Brother Covered you in WWI as much as they Covered you in Bosnian Genocide! But, God is “strange”, you know - he pay of , he don’t forget!
You know my grandfather sometime used a word : Don’t act like a Serb, or Turk – that it mean of not being “disloyal”. Well, my father till use it!
Joni, let us remind some history. In Ottoman empire Albanians as muslim converts were dominant class over christian raya-Serbs. They used it to spread over territory of Serbia(Drim valley, KosMet, south central Serbia) and even Bulgaria. 1804 Serb uprising, important for whole Balkan people. Albanians together with Turks massacred local population. From 1878-1912 Albanian terror on Serbs in Kosmet. 1915, March of Death through Albania, 1941-1945 Greater fascist Albania genocide on Serbs (10 000 dead, 100 000 banished), 1945, Serbs right to come back to Kosmet denied, further terror on Serbs; 1990s Albanians help Croats to ethnci cleanse Serbs from Croatia; formation of terrorist "kla" war crimes on Serbs and unloyal Albanians, 1999 ethnic cleansing of Serbs from KosMet; 2000s terror on Serbs in Kosmet. Serbs in Albania suffer from 1912-2000s, during king Zogu, communist Hodza, democratic Berisha. Btw, was your grandpa Balli Kombetare?
pre 8 godina
1. UK killed every last Druid and Celt to get their land
2. US did quite a job on the 80M existing Native Americans
3. Hungary got its land because of Genghis Kahn
4. Germany's borders came thru generations of blood.
5. Albania got its borders because "Serbia started a war" (how interesting)
6. Canada only came into being after the French/ British Indian wars
7. Turkey's borders came because they wiped out the Greeks.
8. Israel got its borders by stomping out the Palestinians
9. Panama was created by stealing land from Columbia
10. Iraq was a 20th century creation at someone else's expense. Ditto Syria. Ditto Saudi Arabia.
11. Australia was stolen away from Aborigines.
12. Pakistan only got its borders because Britain stole it away from India
13. Cain got his land because he killed his brother Abel
14. Issac got his land because he tricked his brother Esau
15. The entire European civilization wiped out the Neanderthal population of Europe
Need I go on.
(factman, 18 April 2016 18:29)
You just forgot to mention how Serbs were the only exception... when the Serb tribes arrived in the Balkans about 1500 years ago they were so civilized that they purchased the land from the existing population and got regular deeds from them (stored in a file cabinet in Belgrade) instead of exterminating the existing population :)
pre 8 godina
Joni and her fairytales-if you must know it was the result of the Balkan wars that led to the formation of Albania. Serbia and Greece defeated the Ottoman Turks, Albanian cowards were no where to be found. Serbia was forced to withdraw from Durrazo. How the cowardly Albanian Turks were defeated in 1999, the same in 1912. The only country in the world where other nations fought for its freedom. How embarrassing!
(Jugoslavija, 19 April 2016 15:16)
Serbs always fall for this machismo BS. This is what strategy looks like dude. You had Serbia and Greece allies of Russia and then the Ottomans. Greeks want lands up to the Shkumbin River. Serbs want lands down to the Shkumbin River. The Ottomans don't wanna give up anything. You let them fight it out real good. Then attack them when they're the most vulnerable (when they retreat for example). That's how you get to be independent when you have three countries that want to wipe you out of existence.We did the same in 1999. Act as much as you want but how many Serb tanks are there in Kosova now?
Also Esat Pasha is the biggest piece of $hit in Albanian history. You made a deal with him, your troops deserve that ending. There was a lottery to kill the dude. They killed him in the middle of the day in Paris and the killer was set free. This is to show you the piece of $hit Serbia entrusted it's soldiers' lives to. Not to shabby for a ppl with tails (Serb govt official claiming why Albania was the heart of Serbia). Sounds familiar?
pre 8 godina
In communist Albania and Yugoslavia Serbs were prosecuted.
(RighteousBilly, 19 April 2016 07:44)
What does Albania had to do with Yugoslavia Serbs being prosecuted?!
-----------
Communist Albania supported Stalin.
(RighteousBilly, 19 April 2016 07:44)
What's wrong with supporting mother Russia?! Is that a privilege reserved to Serbia only lol
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Albanians never answered because we let them to get away with murder.
(RighteousBilly, 19 April 2016 07:44)
Please feel free to go after the murderers (regardless of their ethnicity). You'll do a favor to mankind.
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When USA world order fails and Russia, China wins we shouldnt forgive or forget you.
(RighteousBilly, 19 April 2016 07:44)
Dear, USA has already collapsed and run out of cash already according to the CE of 92 forums sj, so not sure where you see this USA world order. You must be hallucinating :)
P.S. CE = Chief Economist
pre 8 godina
RighteousBilly : Wrong side: Ottoman empire in 1804, 1912, … 1941-1945
Those were too different wars to put them in one sentence. At least in 1804-1821 the Ottomans defended the way Serbs did during the Yugoslavian wars. Yes Shqips made wrong stakes in WW2 but 90% of Europe did the same. As for the Balkan Wars many peoples did not know what to do with the newly obtained independence. Besides they became independent only from the Ottomans but not from other big powers. See what Bulgaria was doing … So I wouldn’t be that strict about the Shqiptars before the Kosovo events when they made the victims’ show to bring outside powers and steal the province.
pre 8 godina
When it comes to the Ottomans everybody goes crazy denying any cooperation with them. But 470 years that the empire existed (1453-1923) were quite different. It started as a pure Orthodox Christian one and ended as the leader of the Muslim world. Before 1613 it was a province of the Great Horde called there as ТИВЕРСКИЕ/ТВЕРСКИЕ ЗЕМЛИ and ended as an empire of 5 000 000 sq/km.
Today I read about the Angora/Ankara Battle of 1402 when the Osmans were defeated and the empire stopped to exist for some 15 years. See what is written in Russian Wikipedia : «Кроме собственно османских войск, янычар и надёжных сербов, армия Баязида включала солдат из мелких государств-бейликов»
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B0
“reliable Serbs” is something that I try to explain here. But nobody hears me because in your school books they told you that Osmans were Turks. Also ask yourself why after Kosovo and Angora battles where Murad-I and his son Bayased-I were killed nobody even tried to seize their lands? The answer is simple – because in that case the winners would have to deal with the White Horde.
The civil war of 1370-1415 in the Great Horde was a religious war between the Royal and the Apostolic Christianity when no territories were seized. Tamerlane fought on behalf of the Royals while the Atamans/Ottomans were Apostolic and so were Serbs. Islam was formalized 150 years later.
pre 8 godina
Albania got the independence before Balkan wars!
[link]
(Joni, 19 April 2016 15:58)
Are you really that illiterate, can you actually read?!?
Independent Albania was proclaimed on 28 November 1912. This chapter of Albanian history was shrouded in controversy and conflict as the larger part of the self-proclaimed region had found itself controlled by the Balkan League states: Serbia, Montenegro and Greece from the time of the declaration until the period of recognition when Albania relinquished many of the lands originally included in the declared state. Since the proclamation of the state in November 1912, the Provisional Government of Albania asserted its control over a small part of central Albania including the important cities of Vlorë and Berat.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania_during_the_Balkan_Wars
pre 8 godina
Methinks a number of commentators on this thread ought to avail themselves of books written by none partizan/bias authors re Balkans.
Some of the nonsense written below is no more than 'Tales from your Grandads knee' or worse 'coffee bars'
pre 8 godina
Too bad Austria-Hungary didn't stay as passive in the Balkan wars as Russia did. Albanians rebelled on their own while 90 percent of weapons serbs used came from Austria-Hungary and west. Truth is that turks were not oppressing nobody in 1913, even russians now say that they were lies made up by christian separatists and the expansionist christian states. Serbs were willing to lie and do anything to get Kosovo, Bosnia and rest of the areas they considered to be part of the mythical Dusan empire. Doesn't it bother serbs at all that millions of their so called russian brothers died during and after the war. I suppose Tsar 13 yeard old son was expandable to a common good known as Greater Serbia.
pre 8 godina
@ RighteousBilly
Well, my dear i don’t like to much talk in vain! You tell to me that Albanians did genocide against you but actually I just find “ The massacres of Albanians” ? You did Genocide against Albanians but your Big Brother Covered you in WWI as much as they Covered you in Bosnian Genocide! But, God is “strange”, you know - he pay of , he don’t forget!
You know my grandfather sometime used a word : Don’t act like a Serb, or Turk – that it mean of not being “disloyal”. Well, my father till use it!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Nicopolis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_wars_in_Europe
You are not even able "to protect" your words! All the facts and the evidence are against your "myths". Keep dreaming - but when you will wake up - you will realize it was just a dream.
pre 8 godina
Joni and her fairytales-if you must know it was the result of the Balkan wars that led to the formation of Albania. Serbia and Greece defeated the Ottoman Turks, Albanian cowards were no where to be found. Serbia was forced to withdraw from Durrazo. How the cowardly Albanian Turks were defeated in 1999, the same in 1912. The only country in the world where other nations fought for its freedom. How embarrassing!
pre 8 godina
@ Jugoslavija
You Daddyyyy told you a lie, honey!
Albania got the independence before Balkan wars!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_Declaration_of_Independence
And Serbia in Balkan wars fought to share borders with Greece, and having an access in Adriatic, exterminating Albanian unarmed population. So stop lying yourself, it will be better if you read something about real history! Or at least at what your neighbors (non Albanian) learn!
Your army came in Albania like a friend and act like “barbars”. God give to them what they were asking for!
pre 8 godina
My dear, to beat the Turks were needed all European army, so tell us about the fairytale of how you defeat Turks and get the independence? Oh, please?
Is something wrong in you and your history!
Could you explain what it mean the :wrong side”, please?
If the so called “big powers” decide to tear apart Albania between Greece – Serbia –Italy – We should stay and choose to stand in the “Right side”, I suppose!
In WWII – Albania was an ally country in the war against Nazi. ( but, of course you learn wrong, again )
No surprise – Serbian ideologia is “The mother” of ignorance!
Joni,
No fairy tales(except among chauvinist Albanians) have you heard for Serbian uprising in 1804 (Albanians fought together with Ottomans against Serbs)? 1912 1st Balkan war, Kumanovo battle against Ottomans and Albanians.
Wrong side: Ottoman empire in 1804, 1912, Austria-Hungary empire "March of Death" through Albania, 1941-1945 Albanian fascist genocide on Serbs, communists Tito Yugoslavia were Serbs were prosecuted by albanians in Kosmet. Albania declared war to USA during ww2.
What they teach you in those albo schools? Republic Albania was on the same side with Serbs and Russians in ww2? No wonder, when your best academics teach that white bears live in Kosovo and Metohija, that there is genocide on Albanians in KosMet, but their number is increasing, Albanians=Ellyrian ect. Cheers!
pre 8 godina
@ Dragoljub Djurkovic
So your “peaceful army” was going in Greece through Albania for a vacation, or what? Uuuu, those bad Albanians does not permit it to you!
I don’t understand? You should be ashamed, of what you did in WW1! How could be possible that till in this century you still don’t know or refuse to know what really happened!
Your father fathers got what they deserved. God – I repeat -God – punished them, let them die like animals in the wild icy Albanian mountains.
pre 8 godina
@ RighteousBilly
My dear, to beat the Turks were needed all European army, so tell us about the fairytale of how you defeat Turks and get the independence? Oh, please?
Is something wrong in you and your history!
Could you explain what it mean the :wrong side”, please?
If the so called “big powers” decide to tear apart Albania between Greece – Serbia –Italy – We should stay and choose to stand in the “Right side”, I suppose!
In WWII – Albania was an ally country in the war against Nazi. ( but, of course you learn wrong, again )
No surprise – Serbian ideologia is “The mother” of ignorance!
pre 8 godina
Avni, they used everybody, including the stupid tsar who let a small noisy clique drag Russia to the war. Romanovs and Italian royal family had members martied to daughters of Nikola I.
pre 8 godina
@ factman
My dear, Albania declared independence for Ottomans in 28 nentor 1912 – after several revolts of ~ 3 million Albanian alone against 40 million Turks. We fight on our on – your dear army fought how to enlarge the proper territory exterminating the unarmed Albanian population.
If you and other Serbs are proud of that let me tell you that : there is something wrong with your being!
You learn in your history that you "had" the right to deny to others the right of living just to achieve your goals. The facts are against your myths! You never had Kosovo before WW1.
You should open your "eyes" and "mind" before that God will again give to you another Albanian Golgotha, Jasenovac ...or else..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_Declaration_of_Independence
pre 8 godina
(Peter the Rocky, 18 April 2016 19:58)
So the Serbs collaborated with the Turks, but remained Christian while the Albanians became Muslims but fought the Turks. Have I got that right? Something does not gels here at all.
The next question, why would the Turks be more ruthless on Albanians than the Serbs when their aim was to turn everyone to Islam? Surely if the Turkish “program of religious conversion & cultural restrictions was enforced upon on your forefathers without mercy”, and it worked, would not have been repeated with Serbs? I doubt that any collaboration would have stopped that from occurring.
It’s more like Albanians more easily abandoned their other religion for Islam. Much like they abandoned Islam during the Communist period.
I fail to see the point of the first attachment. Albanian Catholics fled Islam just as the Serbs did a couple of hundred years ago and settled in Krajina region.
What is the point of the second attachment called the Danube script? Are you suggesting its Albanian? If you are then I strongly suggest you stop smoking that funny weed.
What are you trying to prove with the Wikipedia about origin of Serbs? Wikipedia is not a source document and as such any university undergraduate that uses it would automatically be penalised – anyone can add to the information there. Source information are located in
pre 8 godina
"hank us first that let you go throug our country, than the others who shipped you to Greece.
The irony of this story is that you often listen to the serbs exstrimists threatning, that they are going to drive us(albanians) to the adriatic sea when the US leave etc. when in fact you serbs have experienced this thing by your self in the past and now cry foul about this history as your President is doing. hahah Dear neighbour behave or otherwise you'll have to experince this thing again. I hope you've learned swimming.. We albanians are not going to be that gentle as we were in the past. bye bye
(from Albania"
Albanians were on the wrong side of history from always. They supported Ottomans in 19th century and in 1912 they were against nations of Balkans that fought for freedom. in ww1 the y attacked viciously Serb refugees. In ww2 Albanian fascist genocide under protection of Germans and Italians. In communist Albania and Yugoslavia Serbs were prosecuted. Communist Albania supported Stalin. In 1990s evil NATO alliance and ethnic cleansing of Serbs from Kosovo and Metohija. 2000s-Apartheid in KosMet. Albanians never answered because we let them to get away with murder. When USA world order fails and Russia, China wins we shouldnt forgive or forget you.
pre 8 godina
Peter the Rocky
You are using Youtube and Wilipedia as sources to your claim. Is that the only "reliable" source you could find? Ha ha ha ha! Your entire history is a made up fairytail.
pre 8 godina
This proves what people Serbs are. They used Albania's territory to save their behind yet didn't thank Albanian people. Too bad Albanians then didn't kill all those Serbs.
pre 8 godina
That is an interesting but mistaken way to look at history.
(Reader, 18 April 2016 19:39)
In your entire garbled response, you said absolutely nothing. Here is an interesting BBC article where one out of 10 historians mistakenly thinks that Serbia is to entirely blame for the entire war. Let's look at his response, shall we.
Sir Richard J Evans - Regius professor of history, University of Cambridge
Serbia
"..... Serbian nationalism and expansionism were profoundly disruptive forces and Serbian backing for the Black Hand terrorists was extraordinarily irresponsible.
First of all, the Black Hand was led by former Serbian Colonel Dragutin Dimitrijevic, a former Serbian Army office AKA APIS. The assassination of Archduke Ferdinand was organized by Tankosic and Apis and young Bosnian recruits which included Serbs, Muslims and Croats. The Serbian government had absolutely no connection with the event, the diplomatic blue books of both the Austro-Hungarian and Serbian governments prove it. Serbia complied to the entire Austro-Hungarian ultimatum except for relinquishing its sovereignty. Austro-Hungary attacked Serbia led by General Poitorek who was responsible for the security of Franz Ferdinand in Sarajevo. Near the end of the war in 1917, Colonel Dragutin Dimitrejevic was court martialed and shot by firing squad by the Serbian government in exile.http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26048324
Next time debate about something you actually have knowledge of.
pre 8 godina
Yugoslavia
There's a Persian saying AJALA KAR-E SHAITAN AST = HURRY IS A JOB OF EVIL. So was my misprint and it must be as foloows:
Just the way the Brits used QUFIA/SHEMAH shawl to differ their troops in Palestine (black) from their troops in Jordan (red).
pre 8 godina
Jugoslavija
17-th century was composed of multiple wars. On one hand the Lutherans succeeded to bring their people to power in the capitol of the world – Moscow. But on the other remaining hordes all over the world refused to obey the Romanovs. Also in Europe they all fought each other because it was in the 17-th century when all the European states appeared first. They called it Reformation Period and the Renaissances. In Fact they divided the property of the Horde for 130 years. Meanwhile the Great Porta (Horda) was the only part of the Great Horde in this region that was not destroyed. So the Europeans fought each other and altogether they feared and hated the Ottomans. At that time the Sultans still spoke Russian. So I am very sceptic about the conflict you mention because Serbs themselves were the Ottomans since 1453 when the empire appeared first. On truly old maps there were neither Eastern Rome now western in 15-16. I’ll try to find info from other sources but I really doubt that Serbs could fight the Ottomans in 17 century. Only idiots could join the Catholics against the only safe state for the Orthodox people. Because Russia was busy with multiple civil wars where the Germans always sent big troops to help the Romanovs against the other hordes. Before 19 century the Porta was a very good place for the Orthodox peoples. They were called Milliet-I Rum (People of Rome) in the Porta and headed by Greek patriarchs enjoying full autonomy in most issues.
pre 8 godina
6. Essad Pasha was a s.o.b who betrayed everyone.
He was half Turkish but he betrayed Turkey.
He was half Albanian and he betrayed Albania.
He was French Ally in WWI but he betrayed France in WWI.
He was Serbian Ally and he accepted "Serbian Protectorate over Albania" (if he was to be king)...but in 1920 in Paris he accepted the Italian proposal for an "Italian Protectorate" over Albania.
Actually the guy who shot him was sent by Albanians fighting against Italians in Vlora. This is the reason why the French declared him "innocent".
But i would be more than glad if he was to get the throne of Albania as "Italian Protege". I imagine how glad his "thankful ally" Nikolic would be today, if it wasn`t for "Albanian terrorists".
pre 8 godina
Jugoslavija
Word ALBANIANS is coming from word ALBA i.e. WHITE and it was always used to mark the troops of the White Horde. It was the main of all the hordes and even the Ottoman Sultans known in Russia as PRINCES OF TVER (КНЯЗЬЯ ТВЕРСКИЕ) obeyed the White Horde. They needed somehow to mark their troops so word ALBANIANS was used only to mark the troops. Just the way the Brits QUFIA/SHEMAH shawl to differ their troops in Palestine (black) from their troops in Jordan (black). Today it became national wear for many Arabs of the region. I saw word ALBANIA on some maps of Azerbaijan but it’s not what you mean. Those were Slav troops deployed in the region. You can see their R1a/R1b/I1/I2 happlogroups in the Azeri blood. By the way Kurdish people by their side initially were called Khorde people. Other places where ALBANIANS were mentioned are Britain (White Albion) and the US state of Albany. If you are interested we can talk about American (Amir-i Khan) or Canadian (Khana Orda) or Mexican (Meshi Khan) or Cuban (Kaaba) toponyms. You will be shocked how many of them has survived. Finally Gabala/Kabala means Kaaba Allah = the metyeorite that fell down in 1421 in Yaroslavl of Russia. It was sent to Hijaz and was guarded by the Russian Cherkassy Mamelukes till 1817. Now it's the place where Muslims go for Hajj ...
pre 8 godina
RE: Albanian Hordes-long tradition of banditry
Kosovars fleeced by Albanian hordes
Albania is poor by any standard, and a great deal of material wealth is flowing in -- from the tractors, cars and money the refugees were able to bring with them, to the clothes and food sent here for distribution, to the television cameras, satellite phones and ready cash of the foreigners who have come here to witness and help.
In a country such as this with a long tradition of banditry -- and a more recent history of national pyramid schemes that collapsed with $600 million in people's savings -- the temptation to steal has proved too strong to resist.http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1999-05-05/news/9905050132_1_albania-tractor-kosovo
pre 8 godina
1. WWI wasn`t Serbia`s fault, this is for sure. In short Russian, Austro-Hungarian, German, British and Ottoman Empires were in the brink of collapse, and they thought that war was the only way to prevent that collapse. No need to explain how stupid that idea was.
2. Serbian Army commmited horrible crimes towards Albanian civilians. This is very well documented by Serbian soldiers themselves.
3. It is very hypocritical to start an organized mass killing against CIVILIANS than to complain for the death of your SOLDIERS!
4. WWI and the "Peace" it created was the most stupid war and the most terrible "peace" in human kind history.
5. The only reason, the only very reason why the European countries commemorate WWI battles is to RREMEMBER how STUPID, CRUEL and DISASTROUS was that war and how STUPID, CRUEL and DISASTROUS for Europe was the "Peace" it created.
Nothing to be praud of, only shame for human kind.
pre 8 godina
LMAO! You actually think brits and french cared about your austrian masters. They cared about oil. I think it is hilarious how serbs and syrians curse the west while London and Paris were the ones who saved them from a genocide commited by turks and germans. I am not an expert on Middle Eastern history, but my understanding is that turkish rule was very unpopular among kurds and arabs hence Lawrence of Arabia. We have to look at the end result of this tragic war. Were there any Syrian refugees on Western Europe in 1904? No. Did Greece pull financial scams on Western Europe in 1789? No. Turley could have bern what China is today with the right kind of leadership while horrible USSR would have never existed. Serbs of course don't care about these things, because only Serbia matters. I mean who cares how many rusdians never saw their ancestral home again due to the war, Kosovo je Srbija, right.
pre 8 godina
@ Hank the Prank
Next time before u accuse nonsense of Albanians being somehow related to the Turks learn some history and facts & don't insuld the blood my forefathers sacrificed fighting the Turks SO FIERCELY!!! That was our nations downfall, our intense and fierce resistance to ottoman occupation marked us as public enemy #1 and the program of religious conversion & cultural restrictions was enforced upon my forefathers without mercy, unlike Serbian collaborators which allowed for Turkish occupation in exchange for religious privilege's!!! The truth will be revealed to all in the very near future!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrYcNkiNmL8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFVTBZl81BM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_hypotheses_of_the_Serbs
pre 8 godina
What a mistake that war was for west and russia. Serbs should have been shipped back to Austria and Greece put under military administration.
pre 8 godina
A) Hungary is not west, never has been and never will be and b) brits were involved along with french due to economic interests of the Anglo-Iranian oil company.
pre 8 godina
RE: Albanians hordes need to learn history-Azerbaijan Albania
According to historical records, utis, the grandfathers of udins, that live in Gabala region of Azerbaijan and considered one of Albanian tribe lived in the area of Rivers Alazan and Kura, legs in the upland are of Samur river, lupens in southern hills of the Caucasus: qargars in the north of Caucasus (later in the plain areas of Garabagh).The information about majority of Turkic inhabitants in Albania gradually increasing.In 510 BC the Caucasian Albania had been occupied by the Sassanids Empire.The capital cities were Qabala and Bardahttp://www.azerbaijans.com/content_353_en.html
pre 8 godina
These root causes were moving these Great Powers to war, the events in Sarajevo were the spark that lit the fuse. If not there, another incident where the interests of these Great Powers overlapped would of had the same impact.
(NS, 18 April 2016 18:41)
That is an interesting but mistaken way to look at history. Asking questions of "what if". You should put a 'probably' in your sentence. We will never know now that "another incident where the interests of these Great Powers overlapped would of had the same impact. ", will we? It is possible to come up with equally probable "what if" scenarios where the war would not have happened if that spark wasn't there. Or it might have happened on a much smaller scale.
Some good questions to ask would be, if the Great Powers interests were like that, why did little Serbia put itself in the middle of those Great Powers? Why did it put itself in the position where it was the first to be hit? Why did Serbia lose almost half of its population for unclear and undefined gains? Did those who planned the Archduke's killing and those in government in Serbia, who were supposed to cooperate with the investigations, ask the soon to be victims? Here is another what if: "if the Archduke hadn't been killed, and no war had happened or the war had started elsewhere, say in Russia, would the Serbian population today be close to 20 million? Would many of those people live in Kosovo, Krajina, Bosnia? What would Serbia look like on the map today?".
pre 8 godina
Thank us first that let you go throug our country, than the others who shipped you to Greece.
The irony of this story is that you often listen to the serbs exstrimists threatning, that they are going to drive us(albanians) to the adriatic sea when the US leave etc. when in fact you serbs have experienced this thing by your self in the past and now cry foul about this history as your President is doing. hahah Dear neighbour behave or otherwise you'll have to experince this thing again. I hope you've learned swimming.. We albanians are not going to be that gentle as we were in the past. bye bye
pre 8 godina
The Truth
Look who's talking. Albanians came with the turks, you should have left with the turks. Instead you take something that took serbs thousands of years to create and claim it as your own.
(Hank the Tank, 18 April 2016 17:29)
Nothing took serbs 1000s of years to build, you barbaric serbian hoards from the northern parts of Uzbekistani marched into the Balkans and savagely infested the region like locusts, hank the prank!!!Serbian history is all stolen from other peoples of the Balkans, mainly that of the Illyrians, todays Albanians!
pre 8 godina
A Dude wrote below that Serbia expanded by killing and will need to return all that land soon.
##
Lets examine this statement:
1. UK killed every last Druid and Celt to get their land
2. US did quite a job on the 80M existing Native Americans
3. Hungary got its land because of Genghis Kahn
4. Germany's borders came thru generations of blood.
5. Albania got its borders because "Serbia started a war" (how interesting)
6. Canada only came into being after the French/ British Indian wars
7. Turkey's borders came because they wiped out the Greeks.
8. Israel got its borders by stomping out the Palestinians
9. Panama was created by stealing land from Columbia
10. Iraq was a 20th century creation at someone else's expense. Ditto Syria. Ditto Saudi Arabia.
11. Australia was stolen away from Aborigines.
12. Pakistan only got its borders because Britain stole it away from India
13. Cain got his land because he killed his brother Abel
14. Issac got his land because he tricked his brother Esau
15. The entire European civilization wiped out the Neanderthal population of Europe
16. Serbia got Vojvodina from America from the collapse of Austro-Hungary who stole it from others.
17. Austro-Hungary expanded its borders by stealing Bosnia
etc
etc
etc
etc
etc
Need I go on.
pre 8 godina
@The Truth.
You have an creditably uneducated and simplistic view of the causes of the First World War. The root causes of the Great War were principally the competing Imperial, economic, geo-political and territorial ambitions of the Great European Empires. Adding to this was the internal tensions in the multi-ethnic Empires of Germany, who occupied and incorporated Poles, Danes and French along with parts of their national territories, and the Austro-Hungarian Empire, who occupied and incorporated Romanians, Czechs, Slovaks, Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, Bosniaks, Italians along with parts of their national territories. The Russian as well as the decaying Ottoman Empire were experiencing similar occurrences.
These root causes were moving these Great Powers to war, the events in Sarajevo were the spark that lit the fuse. If not there, another incident where the interests of these Great Powers overlapped would of had the same impact.
The Kingdom of Serbia at this time only comprised of it's national territory that was occupied by the Ottoman Empire, which it managed to gain freedom from gradually during the 19th century and during the Balkan Wars before 1914. Romania, Bulgaria, Greece and Montenegro all gradually started to gain parts of their national territory during the same period. Serbs have also lived in the national territories with their current borders, as well as in Bosnia & Herzegovina [in both the RS and in the FBiH] and in Croatia - [the old Military Frontier].
pre 8 godina
@The Truth.
Your attempts to paint Serbs as the cause of WW1 and stealing territory is tiring, incorrect and just plain pathetic. Northern Epirus was initially awarded to Greece after WW1 and was only given to Albania in 1921 at the instance principally of Italy who had territorial ambitions towards Albania, despite it's Greek population wanting otherwise, and Mala Prespa was part of the historical region of Macedonia, with a Macedonian presence still there currently.
pre 8 godina
As a result any WW immediately turned to civil wars and ethnic conflicts on the Balkans. So I think that federation was the best choice for former Ottoman lands. Now any interpretation of the events in the past is dangerous for the peace we all dream to obtain.
(rote, 18 April 2016 16:55)
The Bulgarians, Serbians, Greeks and Romanians have a distinct history and statehood so really not sure what you are talking about. As far as Ottoman rule, it was not really consolidated in the Balkans until the 16th century in Serbia and never in Montenegro. The Schism is clearly evident between the Ottoman empire and the Western empires. One example is King Louis II of Hungary led armies against the Ottomans where many soldiers were Balkan Slavs.
pre 8 godina
Can anybody recall ethnical clashes on the Balkans during the Ottomans? f the events in the past is dangerous for the peace we all dream to obtain.
(rote, 18 April 2016 16:55) #
There were many battles, another was the Battle of Batocina
On 29 August 1689 Serbian militia under the command of Pavle Nestorović Deak as a vanguard unit of the Habsburg army was victorious against a vanguard unit of the Ottoman army during the Battle of Batočina.The Austrian army was victorious.http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Battle_of_Bato%C4%8Dina
pre 8 godina
Also, when you start a war, especially a world war, don't complain when your soldiers get killed.
(Reader, 18 April 2016 16:08)
Get yourself educated, little Serbia did not start WWI, the killing of Archduke Ferdinand was the spark that ignited the great war. Read a little about the rivalries that existed between the English, German and Austro-Hungarian empires.
pre 8 godina
The Truth
Look who's talking. Albanians came with the turks, you should have left with the turks. Instead you take something that took serbs thousands of years to create and claim it as your own.
pre 8 godina
Can anybody recall ethnical clashes on the Balkans during the Ottomans? Definitely not until in early 19 century the English and the French started to dismount and discredit the empire. Russia helped them as much as it could. As a result the Armenians, Greeks and Yezidis were massacred. Then in 1817 the English invited the top 800 Russian Cherkassy Mamelukes to Cairo and massacred them. In 1826 same happened to 30 000 of the Slavic Janissaries who ruled the court in Istanbul and were the plot of the Osmans. One after another Balkan peoples started to obtain independence and it caused conflicts and wars that still have no end. Among the 204 wars of the 19 century many took place on the Balkans. None of the peoples here had any statehood in the past and they needed their border lines and their own heroic histories. The Oldenburgs who ruled Russia, Britain, Germany and Austria (using local dynasty names) have granted the Balkan peoples such histories and borders. So that they still cannot understand one another. Balkan peoples used any chance to occupy their neighbors or join any big power that promised them aid in local affairs. As a result any WW immediately turned to civil wars and ethnic conflicts on the Balkans. So I think that federation was the best choice for former Ottoman lands. Now any interpretation of the events in the past is dangerous for the peace we all dream to obtain.
pre 8 godina
However, the Serbian army was harassed and attacked by Albanian hordes.
(Jugoslavija, 18 April 2016 15:28)
That was repayment in kind for what the Serbian hordes had done just a couple of years earlier to the Albanians in Kosovo.
Also, when you start a war, especially a world war, don't complain when your soldiers get killed.
pre 8 godina
Read and learn your Serbian history my Dear Serbian Brothers and Sisters! If you have any doubts at all then our Slavic and our Christian Eastern Orthodox sacred and ancient history will clear it all! Our ancient Fathers paid in full with their sweat, blood and tears, all of what was Jugoslavia yesterday is ours and now look who murdered us again and stole from us! Tamo Daleko, Tamo Moja Srbija!!!
(Dragoljub Djurkovic, 18 April 2016 14:58)
Serb Kingdom was no bigger than Belgrade with its surroundings. That is how big Serbia was and should be.You stole land , by killing people and expanding. Those days are over and will never happened again.Slowly but surely, you will relinquish the land to rightful owners.
pre 8 godina
For our Albanian commentators who continue to deny history, Essad Pasha allowed access for the Serbian army at the request of King Peter Karadjeordjevic and Vojvoda Putnik. However, the Serbian army was harassed and attacked by Albanian hordes.
pre 8 godina
Read and learn your Serbian history my Dear Serbian Brothers and Sisters! If you have any doubts at all then our Slavic and our Christian Eastern Orthodox sacred and ancient history will clear it all! Our ancient Fathers paid in full with their sweat, blood and tears, all of what was Jugoslavia yesterday is ours and now look who murdered us again and stole from us! Tamo Daleko, Tamo Moja Srbija!!!
pre 8 godina
For our Albanian commentators who continue to deny history, Essad Pasha allowed access for the Serbian army at the request of King Peter Karadjeordjevic and Vojvoda Putnik. However, the Serbian army was harassed and attacked by Albanian hordes.
pre 8 godina
Also, when you start a war, especially a world war, don't complain when your soldiers get killed.
(Reader, 18 April 2016 16:08)
Get yourself educated, little Serbia did not start WWI, the killing of Archduke Ferdinand was the spark that ignited the great war. Read a little about the rivalries that existed between the English, German and Austro-Hungarian empires.
pre 8 godina
The Truth
Look who's talking. Albanians came with the turks, you should have left with the turks. Instead you take something that took serbs thousands of years to create and claim it as your own.
pre 8 godina
Read and learn your Serbian history my Dear Serbian Brothers and Sisters! If you have any doubts at all then our Slavic and our Christian Eastern Orthodox sacred and ancient history will clear it all! Our ancient Fathers paid in full with their sweat, blood and tears, all of what was Jugoslavia yesterday is ours and now look who murdered us again and stole from us! Tamo Daleko, Tamo Moja Srbija!!!
pre 8 godina
As a result any WW immediately turned to civil wars and ethnic conflicts on the Balkans. So I think that federation was the best choice for former Ottoman lands. Now any interpretation of the events in the past is dangerous for the peace we all dream to obtain.
(rote, 18 April 2016 16:55)
The Bulgarians, Serbians, Greeks and Romanians have a distinct history and statehood so really not sure what you are talking about. As far as Ottoman rule, it was not really consolidated in the Balkans until the 16th century in Serbia and never in Montenegro. The Schism is clearly evident between the Ottoman empire and the Western empires. One example is King Louis II of Hungary led armies against the Ottomans where many soldiers were Balkan Slavs.
pre 8 godina
A Dude wrote below that Serbia expanded by killing and will need to return all that land soon.
##
Lets examine this statement:
1. UK killed every last Druid and Celt to get their land
2. US did quite a job on the 80M existing Native Americans
3. Hungary got its land because of Genghis Kahn
4. Germany's borders came thru generations of blood.
5. Albania got its borders because "Serbia started a war" (how interesting)
6. Canada only came into being after the French/ British Indian wars
7. Turkey's borders came because they wiped out the Greeks.
8. Israel got its borders by stomping out the Palestinians
9. Panama was created by stealing land from Columbia
10. Iraq was a 20th century creation at someone else's expense. Ditto Syria. Ditto Saudi Arabia.
11. Australia was stolen away from Aborigines.
12. Pakistan only got its borders because Britain stole it away from India
13. Cain got his land because he killed his brother Abel
14. Issac got his land because he tricked his brother Esau
15. The entire European civilization wiped out the Neanderthal population of Europe
16. Serbia got Vojvodina from America from the collapse of Austro-Hungary who stole it from others.
17. Austro-Hungary expanded its borders by stealing Bosnia
etc
etc
etc
etc
etc
Need I go on.
pre 8 godina
@The Truth.
You have an creditably uneducated and simplistic view of the causes of the First World War. The root causes of the Great War were principally the competing Imperial, economic, geo-political and territorial ambitions of the Great European Empires. Adding to this was the internal tensions in the multi-ethnic Empires of Germany, who occupied and incorporated Poles, Danes and French along with parts of their national territories, and the Austro-Hungarian Empire, who occupied and incorporated Romanians, Czechs, Slovaks, Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, Bosniaks, Italians along with parts of their national territories. The Russian as well as the decaying Ottoman Empire were experiencing similar occurrences.
These root causes were moving these Great Powers to war, the events in Sarajevo were the spark that lit the fuse. If not there, another incident where the interests of these Great Powers overlapped would of had the same impact.
The Kingdom of Serbia at this time only comprised of it's national territory that was occupied by the Ottoman Empire, which it managed to gain freedom from gradually during the 19th century and during the Balkan Wars before 1914. Romania, Bulgaria, Greece and Montenegro all gradually started to gain parts of their national territory during the same period. Serbs have also lived in the national territories with their current borders, as well as in Bosnia & Herzegovina [in both the RS and in the FBiH] and in Croatia - [the old Military Frontier].
pre 8 godina
RE: Albanian Hordes-long tradition of banditry
Kosovars fleeced by Albanian hordes
Albania is poor by any standard, and a great deal of material wealth is flowing in -- from the tractors, cars and money the refugees were able to bring with them, to the clothes and food sent here for distribution, to the television cameras, satellite phones and ready cash of the foreigners who have come here to witness and help.
In a country such as this with a long tradition of banditry -- and a more recent history of national pyramid schemes that collapsed with $600 million in people's savings -- the temptation to steal has proved too strong to resist.http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1999-05-05/news/9905050132_1_albania-tractor-kosovo
pre 8 godina
That is an interesting but mistaken way to look at history.
(Reader, 18 April 2016 19:39)
In your entire garbled response, you said absolutely nothing. Here is an interesting BBC article where one out of 10 historians mistakenly thinks that Serbia is to entirely blame for the entire war. Let's look at his response, shall we.
Sir Richard J Evans - Regius professor of history, University of Cambridge
Serbia
"..... Serbian nationalism and expansionism were profoundly disruptive forces and Serbian backing for the Black Hand terrorists was extraordinarily irresponsible.
First of all, the Black Hand was led by former Serbian Colonel Dragutin Dimitrijevic, a former Serbian Army office AKA APIS. The assassination of Archduke Ferdinand was organized by Tankosic and Apis and young Bosnian recruits which included Serbs, Muslims and Croats. The Serbian government had absolutely no connection with the event, the diplomatic blue books of both the Austro-Hungarian and Serbian governments prove it. Serbia complied to the entire Austro-Hungarian ultimatum except for relinquishing its sovereignty. Austro-Hungary attacked Serbia led by General Poitorek who was responsible for the security of Franz Ferdinand in Sarajevo. Near the end of the war in 1917, Colonel Dragutin Dimitrejevic was court martialed and shot by firing squad by the Serbian government in exile.http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26048324
Next time debate about something you actually have knowledge of.
pre 8 godina
@The Truth.
Your attempts to paint Serbs as the cause of WW1 and stealing territory is tiring, incorrect and just plain pathetic. Northern Epirus was initially awarded to Greece after WW1 and was only given to Albania in 1921 at the instance principally of Italy who had territorial ambitions towards Albania, despite it's Greek population wanting otherwise, and Mala Prespa was part of the historical region of Macedonia, with a Macedonian presence still there currently.
pre 8 godina
Peter the Rocky
You are using Youtube and Wilipedia as sources to your claim. Is that the only "reliable" source you could find? Ha ha ha ha! Your entire history is a made up fairytail.
pre 8 godina
Can anybody recall ethnical clashes on the Balkans during the Ottomans? f the events in the past is dangerous for the peace we all dream to obtain.
(rote, 18 April 2016 16:55) #
There were many battles, another was the Battle of Batocina
On 29 August 1689 Serbian militia under the command of Pavle Nestorović Deak as a vanguard unit of the Habsburg army was victorious against a vanguard unit of the Ottoman army during the Battle of Batočina.The Austrian army was victorious.http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Battle_of_Bato%C4%8Dina
pre 8 godina
RE: Albanians hordes need to learn history-Azerbaijan Albania
According to historical records, utis, the grandfathers of udins, that live in Gabala region of Azerbaijan and considered one of Albanian tribe lived in the area of Rivers Alazan and Kura, legs in the upland are of Samur river, lupens in southern hills of the Caucasus: qargars in the north of Caucasus (later in the plain areas of Garabagh).The information about majority of Turkic inhabitants in Albania gradually increasing.In 510 BC the Caucasian Albania had been occupied by the Sassanids Empire.The capital cities were Qabala and Bardahttp://www.azerbaijans.com/content_353_en.html
pre 8 godina
(Peter the Rocky, 18 April 2016 19:58)
So the Serbs collaborated with the Turks, but remained Christian while the Albanians became Muslims but fought the Turks. Have I got that right? Something does not gels here at all.
The next question, why would the Turks be more ruthless on Albanians than the Serbs when their aim was to turn everyone to Islam? Surely if the Turkish “program of religious conversion & cultural restrictions was enforced upon on your forefathers without mercy”, and it worked, would not have been repeated with Serbs? I doubt that any collaboration would have stopped that from occurring.
It’s more like Albanians more easily abandoned their other religion for Islam. Much like they abandoned Islam during the Communist period.
I fail to see the point of the first attachment. Albanian Catholics fled Islam just as the Serbs did a couple of hundred years ago and settled in Krajina region.
What is the point of the second attachment called the Danube script? Are you suggesting its Albanian? If you are then I strongly suggest you stop smoking that funny weed.
What are you trying to prove with the Wikipedia about origin of Serbs? Wikipedia is not a source document and as such any university undergraduate that uses it would automatically be penalised – anyone can add to the information there. Source information are located in
pre 8 godina
Can anybody recall ethnical clashes on the Balkans during the Ottomans? Definitely not until in early 19 century the English and the French started to dismount and discredit the empire. Russia helped them as much as it could. As a result the Armenians, Greeks and Yezidis were massacred. Then in 1817 the English invited the top 800 Russian Cherkassy Mamelukes to Cairo and massacred them. In 1826 same happened to 30 000 of the Slavic Janissaries who ruled the court in Istanbul and were the plot of the Osmans. One after another Balkan peoples started to obtain independence and it caused conflicts and wars that still have no end. Among the 204 wars of the 19 century many took place on the Balkans. None of the peoples here had any statehood in the past and they needed their border lines and their own heroic histories. The Oldenburgs who ruled Russia, Britain, Germany and Austria (using local dynasty names) have granted the Balkan peoples such histories and borders. So that they still cannot understand one another. Balkan peoples used any chance to occupy their neighbors or join any big power that promised them aid in local affairs. As a result any WW immediately turned to civil wars and ethnic conflicts on the Balkans. So I think that federation was the best choice for former Ottoman lands. Now any interpretation of the events in the past is dangerous for the peace we all dream to obtain.
pre 8 godina
"hank us first that let you go throug our country, than the others who shipped you to Greece.
The irony of this story is that you often listen to the serbs exstrimists threatning, that they are going to drive us(albanians) to the adriatic sea when the US leave etc. when in fact you serbs have experienced this thing by your self in the past and now cry foul about this history as your President is doing. hahah Dear neighbour behave or otherwise you'll have to experince this thing again. I hope you've learned swimming.. We albanians are not going to be that gentle as we were in the past. bye bye
(from Albania"
Albanians were on the wrong side of history from always. They supported Ottomans in 19th century and in 1912 they were against nations of Balkans that fought for freedom. in ww1 the y attacked viciously Serb refugees. In ww2 Albanian fascist genocide under protection of Germans and Italians. In communist Albania and Yugoslavia Serbs were prosecuted. Communist Albania supported Stalin. In 1990s evil NATO alliance and ethnic cleansing of Serbs from Kosovo and Metohija. 2000s-Apartheid in KosMet. Albanians never answered because we let them to get away with murder. When USA world order fails and Russia, China wins we shouldnt forgive or forget you.
pre 8 godina
My dear, to beat the Turks were needed all European army, so tell us about the fairytale of how you defeat Turks and get the independence? Oh, please?
Is something wrong in you and your history!
Could you explain what it mean the :wrong side”, please?
If the so called “big powers” decide to tear apart Albania between Greece – Serbia –Italy – We should stay and choose to stand in the “Right side”, I suppose!
In WWII – Albania was an ally country in the war against Nazi. ( but, of course you learn wrong, again )
No surprise – Serbian ideologia is “The mother” of ignorance!
Joni,
No fairy tales(except among chauvinist Albanians) have you heard for Serbian uprising in 1804 (Albanians fought together with Ottomans against Serbs)? 1912 1st Balkan war, Kumanovo battle against Ottomans and Albanians.
Wrong side: Ottoman empire in 1804, 1912, Austria-Hungary empire "March of Death" through Albania, 1941-1945 Albanian fascist genocide on Serbs, communists Tito Yugoslavia were Serbs were prosecuted by albanians in Kosmet. Albania declared war to USA during ww2.
What they teach you in those albo schools? Republic Albania was on the same side with Serbs and Russians in ww2? No wonder, when your best academics teach that white bears live in Kosovo and Metohija, that there is genocide on Albanians in KosMet, but their number is increasing, Albanians=Ellyrian ect. Cheers!
pre 8 godina
@ Dragoljub Djurkovic
So your “peaceful army” was going in Greece through Albania for a vacation, or what? Uuuu, those bad Albanians does not permit it to you!
I don’t understand? You should be ashamed, of what you did in WW1! How could be possible that till in this century you still don’t know or refuse to know what really happened!
Your father fathers got what they deserved. God – I repeat -God – punished them, let them die like animals in the wild icy Albanian mountains.
pre 8 godina
Joni and her fairytales-if you must know it was the result of the Balkan wars that led to the formation of Albania. Serbia and Greece defeated the Ottoman Turks, Albanian cowards were no where to be found. Serbia was forced to withdraw from Durrazo. How the cowardly Albanian Turks were defeated in 1999, the same in 1912. The only country in the world where other nations fought for its freedom. How embarrassing!
pre 8 godina
@ Jugoslavija
You Daddyyyy told you a lie, honey!
Albania got the independence before Balkan wars!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_Declaration_of_Independence
And Serbia in Balkan wars fought to share borders with Greece, and having an access in Adriatic, exterminating Albanian unarmed population. So stop lying yourself, it will be better if you read something about real history! Or at least at what your neighbors (non Albanian) learn!
Your army came in Albania like a friend and act like “barbars”. God give to them what they were asking for!
pre 8 godina
@ RighteousBilly
Well, my dear i don’t like to much talk in vain! You tell to me that Albanians did genocide against you but actually I just find “ The massacres of Albanians” ? You did Genocide against Albanians but your Big Brother Covered you in WWI as much as they Covered you in Bosnian Genocide! But, God is “strange”, you know - he pay of , he don’t forget!
You know my grandfather sometime used a word : Don’t act like a Serb, or Turk – that it mean of not being “disloyal”. Well, my father till use it!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Nicopolis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_wars_in_Europe
You are not even able "to protect" your words! All the facts and the evidence are against your "myths". Keep dreaming - but when you will wake up - you will realize it was just a dream.
pre 8 godina
However, the Serbian army was harassed and attacked by Albanian hordes.
(Jugoslavija, 18 April 2016 15:28)
That was repayment in kind for what the Serbian hordes had done just a couple of years earlier to the Albanians in Kosovo.
Also, when you start a war, especially a world war, don't complain when your soldiers get killed.
pre 8 godina
Read and learn your Serbian history my Dear Serbian Brothers and Sisters! If you have any doubts at all then our Slavic and our Christian Eastern Orthodox sacred and ancient history will clear it all! Our ancient Fathers paid in full with their sweat, blood and tears, all of what was Jugoslavia yesterday is ours and now look who murdered us again and stole from us! Tamo Daleko, Tamo Moja Srbija!!!
(Dragoljub Djurkovic, 18 April 2016 14:58)
Serb Kingdom was no bigger than Belgrade with its surroundings. That is how big Serbia was and should be.You stole land , by killing people and expanding. Those days are over and will never happened again.Slowly but surely, you will relinquish the land to rightful owners.
pre 8 godina
The Truth
Look who's talking. Albanians came with the turks, you should have left with the turks. Instead you take something that took serbs thousands of years to create and claim it as your own.
(Hank the Tank, 18 April 2016 17:29)
Nothing took serbs 1000s of years to build, you barbaric serbian hoards from the northern parts of Uzbekistani marched into the Balkans and savagely infested the region like locusts, hank the prank!!!Serbian history is all stolen from other peoples of the Balkans, mainly that of the Illyrians, todays Albanians!
pre 8 godina
@ factman
My dear, Albania declared independence for Ottomans in 28 nentor 1912 – after several revolts of ~ 3 million Albanian alone against 40 million Turks. We fight on our on – your dear army fought how to enlarge the proper territory exterminating the unarmed Albanian population.
If you and other Serbs are proud of that let me tell you that : there is something wrong with your being!
You learn in your history that you "had" the right to deny to others the right of living just to achieve your goals. The facts are against your myths! You never had Kosovo before WW1.
You should open your "eyes" and "mind" before that God will again give to you another Albanian Golgotha, Jasenovac ...or else..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_Declaration_of_Independence
pre 8 godina
Albania got the independence before Balkan wars!
[link]
(Joni, 19 April 2016 15:58)
Are you really that illiterate, can you actually read?!?
Independent Albania was proclaimed on 28 November 1912. This chapter of Albanian history was shrouded in controversy and conflict as the larger part of the self-proclaimed region had found itself controlled by the Balkan League states: Serbia, Montenegro and Greece from the time of the declaration until the period of recognition when Albania relinquished many of the lands originally included in the declared state. Since the proclamation of the state in November 1912, the Provisional Government of Albania asserted its control over a small part of central Albania including the important cities of Vlorë and Berat.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania_during_the_Balkan_Wars
pre 8 godina
1. UK killed every last Druid and Celt to get their land
2. US did quite a job on the 80M existing Native Americans
3. Hungary got its land because of Genghis Kahn
4. Germany's borders came thru generations of blood.
5. Albania got its borders because "Serbia started a war" (how interesting)
6. Canada only came into being after the French/ British Indian wars
7. Turkey's borders came because they wiped out the Greeks.
8. Israel got its borders by stomping out the Palestinians
9. Panama was created by stealing land from Columbia
10. Iraq was a 20th century creation at someone else's expense. Ditto Syria. Ditto Saudi Arabia.
11. Australia was stolen away from Aborigines.
12. Pakistan only got its borders because Britain stole it away from India
13. Cain got his land because he killed his brother Abel
14. Issac got his land because he tricked his brother Esau
15. The entire European civilization wiped out the Neanderthal population of Europe
Need I go on.
(factman, 18 April 2016 18:29)
You just forgot to mention how Serbs were the only exception... when the Serb tribes arrived in the Balkans about 1500 years ago they were so civilized that they purchased the land from the existing population and got regular deeds from them (stored in a file cabinet in Belgrade) instead of exterminating the existing population :)
pre 8 godina
Jugoslavija
Word ALBANIANS is coming from word ALBA i.e. WHITE and it was always used to mark the troops of the White Horde. It was the main of all the hordes and even the Ottoman Sultans known in Russia as PRINCES OF TVER (КНЯЗЬЯ ТВЕРСКИЕ) obeyed the White Horde. They needed somehow to mark their troops so word ALBANIANS was used only to mark the troops. Just the way the Brits QUFIA/SHEMAH shawl to differ their troops in Palestine (black) from their troops in Jordan (black). Today it became national wear for many Arabs of the region. I saw word ALBANIA on some maps of Azerbaijan but it’s not what you mean. Those were Slav troops deployed in the region. You can see their R1a/R1b/I1/I2 happlogroups in the Azeri blood. By the way Kurdish people by their side initially were called Khorde people. Other places where ALBANIANS were mentioned are Britain (White Albion) and the US state of Albany. If you are interested we can talk about American (Amir-i Khan) or Canadian (Khana Orda) or Mexican (Meshi Khan) or Cuban (Kaaba) toponyms. You will be shocked how many of them has survived. Finally Gabala/Kabala means Kaaba Allah = the metyeorite that fell down in 1421 in Yaroslavl of Russia. It was sent to Hijaz and was guarded by the Russian Cherkassy Mamelukes till 1817. Now it's the place where Muslims go for Hajj ...
pre 8 godina
@ RighteousBilly
My dear, to beat the Turks were needed all European army, so tell us about the fairytale of how you defeat Turks and get the independence? Oh, please?
Is something wrong in you and your history!
Could you explain what it mean the :wrong side”, please?
If the so called “big powers” decide to tear apart Albania between Greece – Serbia –Italy – We should stay and choose to stand in the “Right side”, I suppose!
In WWII – Albania was an ally country in the war against Nazi. ( but, of course you learn wrong, again )
No surprise – Serbian ideologia is “The mother” of ignorance!
pre 8 godina
(icj1, 20 April 2016 03:04)
There you have it. Our resident babbler, the AI or aka icj1, not to be confused with icj its first persona, sees how the Serbs were the only ones not to exterminate the indigenous locals 1500 years ago and knows that the land deeds are in a file cabinet in Belgrade.
I can only guess that out resident AI aka icj1 is in a world of its own where fairies and pixies live in harmony.
It only broke out of that psychotic episode to enlighten us all. Now back to the foetal position rocking backwards and forwards and babbling about PS CE= Chief Economist, sj commands/orders.
PS AI = You know what it stands for…..
pre 8 godina
A) Hungary is not west, never has been and never will be and b) brits were involved along with french due to economic interests of the Anglo-Iranian oil company.
pre 8 godina
@ Hank the Prank
Next time before u accuse nonsense of Albanians being somehow related to the Turks learn some history and facts & don't insuld the blood my forefathers sacrificed fighting the Turks SO FIERCELY!!! That was our nations downfall, our intense and fierce resistance to ottoman occupation marked us as public enemy #1 and the program of religious conversion & cultural restrictions was enforced upon my forefathers without mercy, unlike Serbian collaborators which allowed for Turkish occupation in exchange for religious privilege's!!! The truth will be revealed to all in the very near future!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrYcNkiNmL8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFVTBZl81BM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_hypotheses_of_the_Serbs
pre 8 godina
1. WWI wasn`t Serbia`s fault, this is for sure. In short Russian, Austro-Hungarian, German, British and Ottoman Empires were in the brink of collapse, and they thought that war was the only way to prevent that collapse. No need to explain how stupid that idea was.
2. Serbian Army commmited horrible crimes towards Albanian civilians. This is very well documented by Serbian soldiers themselves.
3. It is very hypocritical to start an organized mass killing against CIVILIANS than to complain for the death of your SOLDIERS!
4. WWI and the "Peace" it created was the most stupid war and the most terrible "peace" in human kind history.
5. The only reason, the only very reason why the European countries commemorate WWI battles is to RREMEMBER how STUPID, CRUEL and DISASTROUS was that war and how STUPID, CRUEL and DISASTROUS for Europe was the "Peace" it created.
Nothing to be praud of, only shame for human kind.
pre 8 godina
This proves what people Serbs are. They used Albania's territory to save their behind yet didn't thank Albanian people. Too bad Albanians then didn't kill all those Serbs.
pre 8 godina
Too bad Austria-Hungary didn't stay as passive in the Balkan wars as Russia did. Albanians rebelled on their own while 90 percent of weapons serbs used came from Austria-Hungary and west. Truth is that turks were not oppressing nobody in 1913, even russians now say that they were lies made up by christian separatists and the expansionist christian states. Serbs were willing to lie and do anything to get Kosovo, Bosnia and rest of the areas they considered to be part of the mythical Dusan empire. Doesn't it bother serbs at all that millions of their so called russian brothers died during and after the war. I suppose Tsar 13 yeard old son was expandable to a common good known as Greater Serbia.
pre 8 godina
Well, my dear i don’t like to much talk in vain! You tell to me that Albanians did genocide against you but actually I just find “ The massacres of Albanians” ? You did Genocide against Albanians but your Big Brother Covered you in WWI as much as they Covered you in Bosnian Genocide! But, God is “strange”, you know - he pay of , he don’t forget!
You know my grandfather sometime used a word : Don’t act like a Serb, or Turk – that it mean of not being “disloyal”. Well, my father till use it!
Joni, let us remind some history. In Ottoman empire Albanians as muslim converts were dominant class over christian raya-Serbs. They used it to spread over territory of Serbia(Drim valley, KosMet, south central Serbia) and even Bulgaria. 1804 Serb uprising, important for whole Balkan people. Albanians together with Turks massacred local population. From 1878-1912 Albanian terror on Serbs in Kosmet. 1915, March of Death through Albania, 1941-1945 Greater fascist Albania genocide on Serbs (10 000 dead, 100 000 banished), 1945, Serbs right to come back to Kosmet denied, further terror on Serbs; 1990s Albanians help Croats to ethnci cleanse Serbs from Croatia; formation of terrorist "kla" war crimes on Serbs and unloyal Albanians, 1999 ethnic cleansing of Serbs from KosMet; 2000s terror on Serbs in Kosmet. Serbs in Albania suffer from 1912-2000s, during king Zogu, communist Hodza, democratic Berisha. Btw, was your grandpa Balli Kombetare?
pre 8 godina
Thank us first that let you go throug our country, than the others who shipped you to Greece.
The irony of this story is that you often listen to the serbs exstrimists threatning, that they are going to drive us(albanians) to the adriatic sea when the US leave etc. when in fact you serbs have experienced this thing by your self in the past and now cry foul about this history as your President is doing. hahah Dear neighbour behave or otherwise you'll have to experince this thing again. I hope you've learned swimming.. We albanians are not going to be that gentle as we were in the past. bye bye
pre 8 godina
What a mistake that war was for west and russia. Serbs should have been shipped back to Austria and Greece put under military administration.
pre 8 godina
Jugoslavija
17-th century was composed of multiple wars. On one hand the Lutherans succeeded to bring their people to power in the capitol of the world – Moscow. But on the other remaining hordes all over the world refused to obey the Romanovs. Also in Europe they all fought each other because it was in the 17-th century when all the European states appeared first. They called it Reformation Period and the Renaissances. In Fact they divided the property of the Horde for 130 years. Meanwhile the Great Porta (Horda) was the only part of the Great Horde in this region that was not destroyed. So the Europeans fought each other and altogether they feared and hated the Ottomans. At that time the Sultans still spoke Russian. So I am very sceptic about the conflict you mention because Serbs themselves were the Ottomans since 1453 when the empire appeared first. On truly old maps there were neither Eastern Rome now western in 15-16. I’ll try to find info from other sources but I really doubt that Serbs could fight the Ottomans in 17 century. Only idiots could join the Catholics against the only safe state for the Orthodox people. Because Russia was busy with multiple civil wars where the Germans always sent big troops to help the Romanovs against the other hordes. Before 19 century the Porta was a very good place for the Orthodox peoples. They were called Milliet-I Rum (People of Rome) in the Porta and headed by Greek patriarchs enjoying full autonomy in most issues.
pre 8 godina
Methinks a number of commentators on this thread ought to avail themselves of books written by none partizan/bias authors re Balkans.
Some of the nonsense written below is no more than 'Tales from your Grandads knee' or worse 'coffee bars'
pre 8 godina
In communist Albania and Yugoslavia Serbs were prosecuted.
(RighteousBilly, 19 April 2016 07:44)
What does Albania had to do with Yugoslavia Serbs being prosecuted?!
-----------
Communist Albania supported Stalin.
(RighteousBilly, 19 April 2016 07:44)
What's wrong with supporting mother Russia?! Is that a privilege reserved to Serbia only lol
----------
Albanians never answered because we let them to get away with murder.
(RighteousBilly, 19 April 2016 07:44)
Please feel free to go after the murderers (regardless of their ethnicity). You'll do a favor to mankind.
----------
When USA world order fails and Russia, China wins we shouldnt forgive or forget you.
(RighteousBilly, 19 April 2016 07:44)
Dear, USA has already collapsed and run out of cash already according to the CE of 92 forums sj, so not sure where you see this USA world order. You must be hallucinating :)
P.S. CE = Chief Economist
pre 8 godina
(sj, 20 April 2016 10:35)
Well i will say:
AI = "Adorable" Albanian Intelligence!
pre 8 godina
Yugoslavia
There's a Persian saying AJALA KAR-E SHAITAN AST = HURRY IS A JOB OF EVIL. So was my misprint and it must be as foloows:
Just the way the Brits used QUFIA/SHEMAH shawl to differ their troops in Palestine (black) from their troops in Jordan (red).
pre 8 godina
RighteousBilly : Wrong side: Ottoman empire in 1804, 1912, … 1941-1945
Those were too different wars to put them in one sentence. At least in 1804-1821 the Ottomans defended the way Serbs did during the Yugoslavian wars. Yes Shqips made wrong stakes in WW2 but 90% of Europe did the same. As for the Balkan Wars many peoples did not know what to do with the newly obtained independence. Besides they became independent only from the Ottomans but not from other big powers. See what Bulgaria was doing … So I wouldn’t be that strict about the Shqiptars before the Kosovo events when they made the victims’ show to bring outside powers and steal the province.
pre 8 godina
Joni and her fairytales-if you must know it was the result of the Balkan wars that led to the formation of Albania. Serbia and Greece defeated the Ottoman Turks, Albanian cowards were no where to be found. Serbia was forced to withdraw from Durrazo. How the cowardly Albanian Turks were defeated in 1999, the same in 1912. The only country in the world where other nations fought for its freedom. How embarrassing!
(Jugoslavija, 19 April 2016 15:16)
Serbs always fall for this machismo BS. This is what strategy looks like dude. You had Serbia and Greece allies of Russia and then the Ottomans. Greeks want lands up to the Shkumbin River. Serbs want lands down to the Shkumbin River. The Ottomans don't wanna give up anything. You let them fight it out real good. Then attack them when they're the most vulnerable (when they retreat for example). That's how you get to be independent when you have three countries that want to wipe you out of existence.We did the same in 1999. Act as much as you want but how many Serb tanks are there in Kosova now?
Also Esat Pasha is the biggest piece of $hit in Albanian history. You made a deal with him, your troops deserve that ending. There was a lottery to kill the dude. They killed him in the middle of the day in Paris and the killer was set free. This is to show you the piece of $hit Serbia entrusted it's soldiers' lives to. Not to shabby for a ppl with tails (Serb govt official claiming why Albania was the heart of Serbia). Sounds familiar?
pre 8 godina
@rote
You failed to explain why the Serbian insurrection in 1804 was "different". Karadjeordjevic was the only Balkan leader to overthrow the Turkish garrisons. Russian prince Alexander Ypsilanti failed miserably to being promised support and was trounced in Romania. Now let me hear your alternative history and who was Ypsilanti according to your version of history.
pre 8 godina
When it comes to the Ottomans everybody goes crazy denying any cooperation with them. But 470 years that the empire existed (1453-1923) were quite different. It started as a pure Orthodox Christian one and ended as the leader of the Muslim world. Before 1613 it was a province of the Great Horde called there as ТИВЕРСКИЕ/ТВЕРСКИЕ ЗЕМЛИ and ended as an empire of 5 000 000 sq/km.
Today I read about the Angora/Ankara Battle of 1402 when the Osmans were defeated and the empire stopped to exist for some 15 years. See what is written in Russian Wikipedia : «Кроме собственно османских войск, янычар и надёжных сербов, армия Баязида включала солдат из мелких государств-бейликов»
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B0
“reliable Serbs” is something that I try to explain here. But nobody hears me because in your school books they told you that Osmans were Turks. Also ask yourself why after Kosovo and Angora battles where Murad-I and his son Bayased-I were killed nobody even tried to seize their lands? The answer is simple – because in that case the winners would have to deal with the White Horde.
The civil war of 1370-1415 in the Great Horde was a religious war between the Royal and the Apostolic Christianity when no territories were seized. Tamerlane fought on behalf of the Royals while the Atamans/Ottomans were Apostolic and so were Serbs. Islam was formalized 150 years later.
pre 8 godina
Jugoslavija : “You failed to explain why the Serbian insurrection in 1804 was "different”
If you look through your own comment and reread mine you will find that in the context I said that in early 19 century the Ottomans were in the same position that the Serbs were in the 90-th. Both defended their territorial integrity and the existing laws. But you blamed the Shqips for defending the Ottomans whom they obeyed at the time. For the Ottomans both Greeks and Serbs were separatists … As simple as that. Greeks were granted with their fantastic history then.
Now concerning my vision of the events. In 1775 the Siberian-American Russian State marked in Encyclopedia of Britannica of 1771 (page 883) as Great Tartaria was defeated. It was the biggest and the last independent piece of the Great Horde. The Russians were attacked from two sides. The Romanovs invaded Siberia while the USA moved to the continent where only Russian Indians lived. Germany sent about 230 000 men reinforcement to America and God knows how many to Siberia.
Next in 1798 Napoleon invaded Egypt to find place for Jerusalem. There he met the Russian Mameluks and he defeated therm. He robbed the pyramids and destroyed the Sphinx but later he had to run back home.
Then Britain and France started to provoke Christians to rebel. Because the Ottomans were the only part of the former Horde that was not destroyed yet. As a result the Armenians , Greeks and Yezids were massacred. The rest you know.
pre 8 godina
(icj1, 20 April 2016 03:04)
There you have it. Our resident babbler, the AI or aka icj1... knows that the land deeds are in a file cabinet in Belgrade.
(sj, 20 April 2016 10:35)
All credit goes to our dear friend factman since it was him/her to discover that important file cabinet in Belgrade. I'm sure he/she will appreciate the recognition by the CE of B92 forums sj :)
P.S. CE = Chief Economist
pre 8 godina
These root causes were moving these Great Powers to war, the events in Sarajevo were the spark that lit the fuse. If not there, another incident where the interests of these Great Powers overlapped would of had the same impact.
(NS, 18 April 2016 18:41)
That is an interesting but mistaken way to look at history. Asking questions of "what if". You should put a 'probably' in your sentence. We will never know now that "another incident where the interests of these Great Powers overlapped would of had the same impact. ", will we? It is possible to come up with equally probable "what if" scenarios where the war would not have happened if that spark wasn't there. Or it might have happened on a much smaller scale.
Some good questions to ask would be, if the Great Powers interests were like that, why did little Serbia put itself in the middle of those Great Powers? Why did it put itself in the position where it was the first to be hit? Why did Serbia lose almost half of its population for unclear and undefined gains? Did those who planned the Archduke's killing and those in government in Serbia, who were supposed to cooperate with the investigations, ask the soon to be victims? Here is another what if: "if the Archduke hadn't been killed, and no war had happened or the war had started elsewhere, say in Russia, would the Serbian population today be close to 20 million? Would many of those people live in Kosovo, Krajina, Bosnia? What would Serbia look like on the map today?".
pre 8 godina
1. UK killed every last Druid and Celt to get their land
Need I go on.
(factman, 18 April 2016 18:29)
As mentioned previously, an awful lot of people should begin to read.
'The UK killed every last druid and Celt to get their land'?
The Romans will be pleased. The mere thought that the Romans would pursue the Druids to Anglesey and wipe them out as played heavily on there conscience for two millennia.
They will be grateful to be exonerated by your good self.
The nonsense people read and believe, the future is safe ........... I hope!
pre 8 godina
LMAO! You actually think brits and french cared about your austrian masters. They cared about oil. I think it is hilarious how serbs and syrians curse the west while London and Paris were the ones who saved them from a genocide commited by turks and germans. I am not an expert on Middle Eastern history, but my understanding is that turkish rule was very unpopular among kurds and arabs hence Lawrence of Arabia. We have to look at the end result of this tragic war. Were there any Syrian refugees on Western Europe in 1904? No. Did Greece pull financial scams on Western Europe in 1789? No. Turley could have bern what China is today with the right kind of leadership while horrible USSR would have never existed. Serbs of course don't care about these things, because only Serbia matters. I mean who cares how many rusdians never saw their ancestral home again due to the war, Kosovo je Srbija, right.
pre 8 godina
6. Essad Pasha was a s.o.b who betrayed everyone.
He was half Turkish but he betrayed Turkey.
He was half Albanian and he betrayed Albania.
He was French Ally in WWI but he betrayed France in WWI.
He was Serbian Ally and he accepted "Serbian Protectorate over Albania" (if he was to be king)...but in 1920 in Paris he accepted the Italian proposal for an "Italian Protectorate" over Albania.
Actually the guy who shot him was sent by Albanians fighting against Italians in Vlora. This is the reason why the French declared him "innocent".
But i would be more than glad if he was to get the throne of Albania as "Italian Protege". I imagine how glad his "thankful ally" Nikolic would be today, if it wasn`t for "Albanian terrorists".
pre 8 godina
Avni, they used everybody, including the stupid tsar who let a small noisy clique drag Russia to the war. Romanovs and Italian royal family had members martied to daughters of Nikola I.
pre 8 godina
Read and learn your Serbian history my Dear Serbian Brothers and Sisters! If you have any doubts at all then our Slavic and our Christian Eastern Orthodox sacred and ancient history will clear it all! Our ancient Fathers paid in full with their sweat, blood and tears, all of what was Jugoslavia yesterday is ours and now look who murdered us again and stole from us! Tamo Daleko, Tamo Moja Srbija!!!
(Dragoljub Djurkovic, 18 April 2016 14:58)
Serb Kingdom was no bigger than Belgrade with its surroundings. That is how big Serbia was and should be.You stole land , by killing people and expanding. Those days are over and will never happened again.Slowly but surely, you will relinquish the land to rightful owners.
pre 8 godina
The Truth
Look who's talking. Albanians came with the turks, you should have left with the turks. Instead you take something that took serbs thousands of years to create and claim it as your own.
(Hank the Tank, 18 April 2016 17:29)
Nothing took serbs 1000s of years to build, you barbaric serbian hoards from the northern parts of Uzbekistani marched into the Balkans and savagely infested the region like locusts, hank the prank!!!Serbian history is all stolen from other peoples of the Balkans, mainly that of the Illyrians, todays Albanians!
pre 8 godina
Thank us first that let you go throug our country, than the others who shipped you to Greece.
The irony of this story is that you often listen to the serbs exstrimists threatning, that they are going to drive us(albanians) to the adriatic sea when the US leave etc. when in fact you serbs have experienced this thing by your self in the past and now cry foul about this history as your President is doing. hahah Dear neighbour behave or otherwise you'll have to experince this thing again. I hope you've learned swimming.. We albanians are not going to be that gentle as we were in the past. bye bye
pre 8 godina
However, the Serbian army was harassed and attacked by Albanian hordes.
(Jugoslavija, 18 April 2016 15:28)
That was repayment in kind for what the Serbian hordes had done just a couple of years earlier to the Albanians in Kosovo.
Also, when you start a war, especially a world war, don't complain when your soldiers get killed.
pre 8 godina
What a mistake that war was for west and russia. Serbs should have been shipped back to Austria and Greece put under military administration.
pre 8 godina
These root causes were moving these Great Powers to war, the events in Sarajevo were the spark that lit the fuse. If not there, another incident where the interests of these Great Powers overlapped would of had the same impact.
(NS, 18 April 2016 18:41)
That is an interesting but mistaken way to look at history. Asking questions of "what if". You should put a 'probably' in your sentence. We will never know now that "another incident where the interests of these Great Powers overlapped would of had the same impact. ", will we? It is possible to come up with equally probable "what if" scenarios where the war would not have happened if that spark wasn't there. Or it might have happened on a much smaller scale.
Some good questions to ask would be, if the Great Powers interests were like that, why did little Serbia put itself in the middle of those Great Powers? Why did it put itself in the position where it was the first to be hit? Why did Serbia lose almost half of its population for unclear and undefined gains? Did those who planned the Archduke's killing and those in government in Serbia, who were supposed to cooperate with the investigations, ask the soon to be victims? Here is another what if: "if the Archduke hadn't been killed, and no war had happened or the war had started elsewhere, say in Russia, would the Serbian population today be close to 20 million? Would many of those people live in Kosovo, Krajina, Bosnia? What would Serbia look like on the map today?".
pre 8 godina
@ Hank the Prank
Next time before u accuse nonsense of Albanians being somehow related to the Turks learn some history and facts & don't insuld the blood my forefathers sacrificed fighting the Turks SO FIERCELY!!! That was our nations downfall, our intense and fierce resistance to ottoman occupation marked us as public enemy #1 and the program of religious conversion & cultural restrictions was enforced upon my forefathers without mercy, unlike Serbian collaborators which allowed for Turkish occupation in exchange for religious privilege's!!! The truth will be revealed to all in the very near future!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrYcNkiNmL8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFVTBZl81BM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_hypotheses_of_the_Serbs
pre 8 godina
This proves what people Serbs are. They used Albania's territory to save their behind yet didn't thank Albanian people. Too bad Albanians then didn't kill all those Serbs.
pre 8 godina
@ Jugoslavija
You Daddyyyy told you a lie, honey!
Albania got the independence before Balkan wars!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_Declaration_of_Independence
And Serbia in Balkan wars fought to share borders with Greece, and having an access in Adriatic, exterminating Albanian unarmed population. So stop lying yourself, it will be better if you read something about real history! Or at least at what your neighbors (non Albanian) learn!
Your army came in Albania like a friend and act like “barbars”. God give to them what they were asking for!
pre 8 godina
LMAO! You actually think brits and french cared about your austrian masters. They cared about oil. I think it is hilarious how serbs and syrians curse the west while London and Paris were the ones who saved them from a genocide commited by turks and germans. I am not an expert on Middle Eastern history, but my understanding is that turkish rule was very unpopular among kurds and arabs hence Lawrence of Arabia. We have to look at the end result of this tragic war. Were there any Syrian refugees on Western Europe in 1904? No. Did Greece pull financial scams on Western Europe in 1789? No. Turley could have bern what China is today with the right kind of leadership while horrible USSR would have never existed. Serbs of course don't care about these things, because only Serbia matters. I mean who cares how many rusdians never saw their ancestral home again due to the war, Kosovo je Srbija, right.
pre 8 godina
@ Dragoljub Djurkovic
So your “peaceful army” was going in Greece through Albania for a vacation, or what? Uuuu, those bad Albanians does not permit it to you!
I don’t understand? You should be ashamed, of what you did in WW1! How could be possible that till in this century you still don’t know or refuse to know what really happened!
Your father fathers got what they deserved. God – I repeat -God – punished them, let them die like animals in the wild icy Albanian mountains.
pre 8 godina
Joni and her fairytales-if you must know it was the result of the Balkan wars that led to the formation of Albania. Serbia and Greece defeated the Ottoman Turks, Albanian cowards were no where to be found. Serbia was forced to withdraw from Durrazo. How the cowardly Albanian Turks were defeated in 1999, the same in 1912. The only country in the world where other nations fought for its freedom. How embarrassing!
pre 8 godina
@ RighteousBilly
Well, my dear i don’t like to much talk in vain! You tell to me that Albanians did genocide against you but actually I just find “ The massacres of Albanians” ? You did Genocide against Albanians but your Big Brother Covered you in WWI as much as they Covered you in Bosnian Genocide! But, God is “strange”, you know - he pay of , he don’t forget!
You know my grandfather sometime used a word : Don’t act like a Serb, or Turk – that it mean of not being “disloyal”. Well, my father till use it!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Nicopolis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_wars_in_Europe
You are not even able "to protect" your words! All the facts and the evidence are against your "myths". Keep dreaming - but when you will wake up - you will realize it was just a dream.
pre 8 godina
The Truth
Look who's talking. Albanians came with the turks, you should have left with the turks. Instead you take something that took serbs thousands of years to create and claim it as your own.
pre 8 godina
@ factman
My dear, Albania declared independence for Ottomans in 28 nentor 1912 – after several revolts of ~ 3 million Albanian alone against 40 million Turks. We fight on our on – your dear army fought how to enlarge the proper territory exterminating the unarmed Albanian population.
If you and other Serbs are proud of that let me tell you that : there is something wrong with your being!
You learn in your history that you "had" the right to deny to others the right of living just to achieve your goals. The facts are against your myths! You never had Kosovo before WW1.
You should open your "eyes" and "mind" before that God will again give to you another Albanian Golgotha, Jasenovac ...or else..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_Declaration_of_Independence
pre 8 godina
@ RighteousBilly
My dear, to beat the Turks were needed all European army, so tell us about the fairytale of how you defeat Turks and get the independence? Oh, please?
Is something wrong in you and your history!
Could you explain what it mean the :wrong side”, please?
If the so called “big powers” decide to tear apart Albania between Greece – Serbia –Italy – We should stay and choose to stand in the “Right side”, I suppose!
In WWII – Albania was an ally country in the war against Nazi. ( but, of course you learn wrong, again )
No surprise – Serbian ideologia is “The mother” of ignorance!
pre 8 godina
RE: Albanians hordes need to learn history-Azerbaijan Albania
According to historical records, utis, the grandfathers of udins, that live in Gabala region of Azerbaijan and considered one of Albanian tribe lived in the area of Rivers Alazan and Kura, legs in the upland are of Samur river, lupens in southern hills of the Caucasus: qargars in the north of Caucasus (later in the plain areas of Garabagh).The information about majority of Turkic inhabitants in Albania gradually increasing.In 510 BC the Caucasian Albania had been occupied by the Sassanids Empire.The capital cities were Qabala and Bardahttp://www.azerbaijans.com/content_353_en.html
pre 8 godina
RE: Albanian Hordes-long tradition of banditry
Kosovars fleeced by Albanian hordes
Albania is poor by any standard, and a great deal of material wealth is flowing in -- from the tractors, cars and money the refugees were able to bring with them, to the clothes and food sent here for distribution, to the television cameras, satellite phones and ready cash of the foreigners who have come here to witness and help.
In a country such as this with a long tradition of banditry -- and a more recent history of national pyramid schemes that collapsed with $600 million in people's savings -- the temptation to steal has proved too strong to resist.http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1999-05-05/news/9905050132_1_albania-tractor-kosovo
pre 8 godina
Jugoslavija
Word ALBANIANS is coming from word ALBA i.e. WHITE and it was always used to mark the troops of the White Horde. It was the main of all the hordes and even the Ottoman Sultans known in Russia as PRINCES OF TVER (КНЯЗЬЯ ТВЕРСКИЕ) obeyed the White Horde. They needed somehow to mark their troops so word ALBANIANS was used only to mark the troops. Just the way the Brits QUFIA/SHEMAH shawl to differ their troops in Palestine (black) from their troops in Jordan (black). Today it became national wear for many Arabs of the region. I saw word ALBANIA on some maps of Azerbaijan but it’s not what you mean. Those were Slav troops deployed in the region. You can see their R1a/R1b/I1/I2 happlogroups in the Azeri blood. By the way Kurdish people by their side initially were called Khorde people. Other places where ALBANIANS were mentioned are Britain (White Albion) and the US state of Albany. If you are interested we can talk about American (Amir-i Khan) or Canadian (Khana Orda) or Mexican (Meshi Khan) or Cuban (Kaaba) toponyms. You will be shocked how many of them has survived. Finally Gabala/Kabala means Kaaba Allah = the metyeorite that fell down in 1421 in Yaroslavl of Russia. It was sent to Hijaz and was guarded by the Russian Cherkassy Mamelukes till 1817. Now it's the place where Muslims go for Hajj ...
pre 8 godina
My dear, to beat the Turks were needed all European army, so tell us about the fairytale of how you defeat Turks and get the independence? Oh, please?
Is something wrong in you and your history!
Could you explain what it mean the :wrong side”, please?
If the so called “big powers” decide to tear apart Albania between Greece – Serbia –Italy – We should stay and choose to stand in the “Right side”, I suppose!
In WWII – Albania was an ally country in the war against Nazi. ( but, of course you learn wrong, again )
No surprise – Serbian ideologia is “The mother” of ignorance!
Joni,
No fairy tales(except among chauvinist Albanians) have you heard for Serbian uprising in 1804 (Albanians fought together with Ottomans against Serbs)? 1912 1st Balkan war, Kumanovo battle against Ottomans and Albanians.
Wrong side: Ottoman empire in 1804, 1912, Austria-Hungary empire "March of Death" through Albania, 1941-1945 Albanian fascist genocide on Serbs, communists Tito Yugoslavia were Serbs were prosecuted by albanians in Kosmet. Albania declared war to USA during ww2.
What they teach you in those albo schools? Republic Albania was on the same side with Serbs and Russians in ww2? No wonder, when your best academics teach that white bears live in Kosovo and Metohija, that there is genocide on Albanians in KosMet, but their number is increasing, Albanians=Ellyrian ect. Cheers!
pre 8 godina
For our Albanian commentators who continue to deny history, Essad Pasha allowed access for the Serbian army at the request of King Peter Karadjeordjevic and Vojvoda Putnik. However, the Serbian army was harassed and attacked by Albanian hordes.
pre 8 godina
Also, when you start a war, especially a world war, don't complain when your soldiers get killed.
(Reader, 18 April 2016 16:08)
Get yourself educated, little Serbia did not start WWI, the killing of Archduke Ferdinand was the spark that ignited the great war. Read a little about the rivalries that existed between the English, German and Austro-Hungarian empires.
pre 8 godina
1. WWI wasn`t Serbia`s fault, this is for sure. In short Russian, Austro-Hungarian, German, British and Ottoman Empires were in the brink of collapse, and they thought that war was the only way to prevent that collapse. No need to explain how stupid that idea was.
2. Serbian Army commmited horrible crimes towards Albanian civilians. This is very well documented by Serbian soldiers themselves.
3. It is very hypocritical to start an organized mass killing against CIVILIANS than to complain for the death of your SOLDIERS!
4. WWI and the "Peace" it created was the most stupid war and the most terrible "peace" in human kind history.
5. The only reason, the only very reason why the European countries commemorate WWI battles is to RREMEMBER how STUPID, CRUEL and DISASTROUS was that war and how STUPID, CRUEL and DISASTROUS for Europe was the "Peace" it created.
Nothing to be praud of, only shame for human kind.
pre 8 godina
That is an interesting but mistaken way to look at history.
(Reader, 18 April 2016 19:39)
In your entire garbled response, you said absolutely nothing. Here is an interesting BBC article where one out of 10 historians mistakenly thinks that Serbia is to entirely blame for the entire war. Let's look at his response, shall we.
Sir Richard J Evans - Regius professor of history, University of Cambridge
Serbia
"..... Serbian nationalism and expansionism were profoundly disruptive forces and Serbian backing for the Black Hand terrorists was extraordinarily irresponsible.
First of all, the Black Hand was led by former Serbian Colonel Dragutin Dimitrijevic, a former Serbian Army office AKA APIS. The assassination of Archduke Ferdinand was organized by Tankosic and Apis and young Bosnian recruits which included Serbs, Muslims and Croats. The Serbian government had absolutely no connection with the event, the diplomatic blue books of both the Austro-Hungarian and Serbian governments prove it. Serbia complied to the entire Austro-Hungarian ultimatum except for relinquishing its sovereignty. Austro-Hungary attacked Serbia led by General Poitorek who was responsible for the security of Franz Ferdinand in Sarajevo. Near the end of the war in 1917, Colonel Dragutin Dimitrejevic was court martialed and shot by firing squad by the Serbian government in exile.http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26048324
Next time debate about something you actually have knowledge of.
pre 8 godina
Albania got the independence before Balkan wars!
[link]
(Joni, 19 April 2016 15:58)
Are you really that illiterate, can you actually read?!?
Independent Albania was proclaimed on 28 November 1912. This chapter of Albanian history was shrouded in controversy and conflict as the larger part of the self-proclaimed region had found itself controlled by the Balkan League states: Serbia, Montenegro and Greece from the time of the declaration until the period of recognition when Albania relinquished many of the lands originally included in the declared state. Since the proclamation of the state in November 1912, the Provisional Government of Albania asserted its control over a small part of central Albania including the important cities of Vlorë and Berat.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania_during_the_Balkan_Wars
pre 8 godina
Well, my dear i don’t like to much talk in vain! You tell to me that Albanians did genocide against you but actually I just find “ The massacres of Albanians” ? You did Genocide against Albanians but your Big Brother Covered you in WWI as much as they Covered you in Bosnian Genocide! But, God is “strange”, you know - he pay of , he don’t forget!
You know my grandfather sometime used a word : Don’t act like a Serb, or Turk – that it mean of not being “disloyal”. Well, my father till use it!
Joni, let us remind some history. In Ottoman empire Albanians as muslim converts were dominant class over christian raya-Serbs. They used it to spread over territory of Serbia(Drim valley, KosMet, south central Serbia) and even Bulgaria. 1804 Serb uprising, important for whole Balkan people. Albanians together with Turks massacred local population. From 1878-1912 Albanian terror on Serbs in Kosmet. 1915, March of Death through Albania, 1941-1945 Greater fascist Albania genocide on Serbs (10 000 dead, 100 000 banished), 1945, Serbs right to come back to Kosmet denied, further terror on Serbs; 1990s Albanians help Croats to ethnci cleanse Serbs from Croatia; formation of terrorist "kla" war crimes on Serbs and unloyal Albanians, 1999 ethnic cleansing of Serbs from KosMet; 2000s terror on Serbs in Kosmet. Serbs in Albania suffer from 1912-2000s, during king Zogu, communist Hodza, democratic Berisha. Btw, was your grandpa Balli Kombetare?
pre 8 godina
1. UK killed every last Druid and Celt to get their land
Need I go on.
(factman, 18 April 2016 18:29)
As mentioned previously, an awful lot of people should begin to read.
'The UK killed every last druid and Celt to get their land'?
The Romans will be pleased. The mere thought that the Romans would pursue the Druids to Anglesey and wipe them out as played heavily on there conscience for two millennia.
They will be grateful to be exonerated by your good self.
The nonsense people read and believe, the future is safe ........... I hope!
pre 8 godina
(sj, 20 April 2016 10:35)
Well i will say:
AI = "Adorable" Albanian Intelligence!
pre 8 godina
A Dude wrote below that Serbia expanded by killing and will need to return all that land soon.
##
Lets examine this statement:
1. UK killed every last Druid and Celt to get their land
2. US did quite a job on the 80M existing Native Americans
3. Hungary got its land because of Genghis Kahn
4. Germany's borders came thru generations of blood.
5. Albania got its borders because "Serbia started a war" (how interesting)
6. Canada only came into being after the French/ British Indian wars
7. Turkey's borders came because they wiped out the Greeks.
8. Israel got its borders by stomping out the Palestinians
9. Panama was created by stealing land from Columbia
10. Iraq was a 20th century creation at someone else's expense. Ditto Syria. Ditto Saudi Arabia.
11. Australia was stolen away from Aborigines.
12. Pakistan only got its borders because Britain stole it away from India
13. Cain got his land because he killed his brother Abel
14. Issac got his land because he tricked his brother Esau
15. The entire European civilization wiped out the Neanderthal population of Europe
16. Serbia got Vojvodina from America from the collapse of Austro-Hungary who stole it from others.
17. Austro-Hungary expanded its borders by stealing Bosnia
etc
etc
etc
etc
etc
Need I go on.
pre 8 godina
1. UK killed every last Druid and Celt to get their land
2. US did quite a job on the 80M existing Native Americans
3. Hungary got its land because of Genghis Kahn
4. Germany's borders came thru generations of blood.
5. Albania got its borders because "Serbia started a war" (how interesting)
6. Canada only came into being after the French/ British Indian wars
7. Turkey's borders came because they wiped out the Greeks.
8. Israel got its borders by stomping out the Palestinians
9. Panama was created by stealing land from Columbia
10. Iraq was a 20th century creation at someone else's expense. Ditto Syria. Ditto Saudi Arabia.
11. Australia was stolen away from Aborigines.
12. Pakistan only got its borders because Britain stole it away from India
13. Cain got his land because he killed his brother Abel
14. Issac got his land because he tricked his brother Esau
15. The entire European civilization wiped out the Neanderthal population of Europe
Need I go on.
(factman, 18 April 2016 18:29)
You just forgot to mention how Serbs were the only exception... when the Serb tribes arrived in the Balkans about 1500 years ago they were so civilized that they purchased the land from the existing population and got regular deeds from them (stored in a file cabinet in Belgrade) instead of exterminating the existing population :)
pre 8 godina
(icj1, 20 April 2016 03:04)
There you have it. Our resident babbler, the AI or aka icj1, not to be confused with icj its first persona, sees how the Serbs were the only ones not to exterminate the indigenous locals 1500 years ago and knows that the land deeds are in a file cabinet in Belgrade.
I can only guess that out resident AI aka icj1 is in a world of its own where fairies and pixies live in harmony.
It only broke out of that psychotic episode to enlighten us all. Now back to the foetal position rocking backwards and forwards and babbling about PS CE= Chief Economist, sj commands/orders.
PS AI = You know what it stands for…..
pre 8 godina
6. Essad Pasha was a s.o.b who betrayed everyone.
He was half Turkish but he betrayed Turkey.
He was half Albanian and he betrayed Albania.
He was French Ally in WWI but he betrayed France in WWI.
He was Serbian Ally and he accepted "Serbian Protectorate over Albania" (if he was to be king)...but in 1920 in Paris he accepted the Italian proposal for an "Italian Protectorate" over Albania.
Actually the guy who shot him was sent by Albanians fighting against Italians in Vlora. This is the reason why the French declared him "innocent".
But i would be more than glad if he was to get the throne of Albania as "Italian Protege". I imagine how glad his "thankful ally" Nikolic would be today, if it wasn`t for "Albanian terrorists".
pre 8 godina
Jugoslavija
17-th century was composed of multiple wars. On one hand the Lutherans succeeded to bring their people to power in the capitol of the world – Moscow. But on the other remaining hordes all over the world refused to obey the Romanovs. Also in Europe they all fought each other because it was in the 17-th century when all the European states appeared first. They called it Reformation Period and the Renaissances. In Fact they divided the property of the Horde for 130 years. Meanwhile the Great Porta (Horda) was the only part of the Great Horde in this region that was not destroyed. So the Europeans fought each other and altogether they feared and hated the Ottomans. At that time the Sultans still spoke Russian. So I am very sceptic about the conflict you mention because Serbs themselves were the Ottomans since 1453 when the empire appeared first. On truly old maps there were neither Eastern Rome now western in 15-16. I’ll try to find info from other sources but I really doubt that Serbs could fight the Ottomans in 17 century. Only idiots could join the Catholics against the only safe state for the Orthodox people. Because Russia was busy with multiple civil wars where the Germans always sent big troops to help the Romanovs against the other hordes. Before 19 century the Porta was a very good place for the Orthodox peoples. They were called Milliet-I Rum (People of Rome) in the Porta and headed by Greek patriarchs enjoying full autonomy in most issues.
pre 8 godina
"hank us first that let you go throug our country, than the others who shipped you to Greece.
The irony of this story is that you often listen to the serbs exstrimists threatning, that they are going to drive us(albanians) to the adriatic sea when the US leave etc. when in fact you serbs have experienced this thing by your self in the past and now cry foul about this history as your President is doing. hahah Dear neighbour behave or otherwise you'll have to experince this thing again. I hope you've learned swimming.. We albanians are not going to be that gentle as we were in the past. bye bye
(from Albania"
Albanians were on the wrong side of history from always. They supported Ottomans in 19th century and in 1912 they were against nations of Balkans that fought for freedom. in ww1 the y attacked viciously Serb refugees. In ww2 Albanian fascist genocide under protection of Germans and Italians. In communist Albania and Yugoslavia Serbs were prosecuted. Communist Albania supported Stalin. In 1990s evil NATO alliance and ethnic cleansing of Serbs from Kosovo and Metohija. 2000s-Apartheid in KosMet. Albanians never answered because we let them to get away with murder. When USA world order fails and Russia, China wins we shouldnt forgive or forget you.
pre 8 godina
(Peter the Rocky, 18 April 2016 19:58)
So the Serbs collaborated with the Turks, but remained Christian while the Albanians became Muslims but fought the Turks. Have I got that right? Something does not gels here at all.
The next question, why would the Turks be more ruthless on Albanians than the Serbs when their aim was to turn everyone to Islam? Surely if the Turkish “program of religious conversion & cultural restrictions was enforced upon on your forefathers without mercy”, and it worked, would not have been repeated with Serbs? I doubt that any collaboration would have stopped that from occurring.
It’s more like Albanians more easily abandoned their other religion for Islam. Much like they abandoned Islam during the Communist period.
I fail to see the point of the first attachment. Albanian Catholics fled Islam just as the Serbs did a couple of hundred years ago and settled in Krajina region.
What is the point of the second attachment called the Danube script? Are you suggesting its Albanian? If you are then I strongly suggest you stop smoking that funny weed.
What are you trying to prove with the Wikipedia about origin of Serbs? Wikipedia is not a source document and as such any university undergraduate that uses it would automatically be penalised – anyone can add to the information there. Source information are located in
pre 8 godina
(icj1, 20 April 2016 03:04)
There you have it. Our resident babbler, the AI or aka icj1... knows that the land deeds are in a file cabinet in Belgrade.
(sj, 20 April 2016 10:35)
All credit goes to our dear friend factman since it was him/her to discover that important file cabinet in Belgrade. I'm sure he/she will appreciate the recognition by the CE of B92 forums sj :)
P.S. CE = Chief Economist
pre 8 godina
Can anybody recall ethnical clashes on the Balkans during the Ottomans? Definitely not until in early 19 century the English and the French started to dismount and discredit the empire. Russia helped them as much as it could. As a result the Armenians, Greeks and Yezidis were massacred. Then in 1817 the English invited the top 800 Russian Cherkassy Mamelukes to Cairo and massacred them. In 1826 same happened to 30 000 of the Slavic Janissaries who ruled the court in Istanbul and were the plot of the Osmans. One after another Balkan peoples started to obtain independence and it caused conflicts and wars that still have no end. Among the 204 wars of the 19 century many took place on the Balkans. None of the peoples here had any statehood in the past and they needed their border lines and their own heroic histories. The Oldenburgs who ruled Russia, Britain, Germany and Austria (using local dynasty names) have granted the Balkan peoples such histories and borders. So that they still cannot understand one another. Balkan peoples used any chance to occupy their neighbors or join any big power that promised them aid in local affairs. As a result any WW immediately turned to civil wars and ethnic conflicts on the Balkans. So I think that federation was the best choice for former Ottoman lands. Now any interpretation of the events in the past is dangerous for the peace we all dream to obtain.
pre 8 godina
Can anybody recall ethnical clashes on the Balkans during the Ottomans? f the events in the past is dangerous for the peace we all dream to obtain.
(rote, 18 April 2016 16:55) #
There were many battles, another was the Battle of Batocina
On 29 August 1689 Serbian militia under the command of Pavle Nestorović Deak as a vanguard unit of the Habsburg army was victorious against a vanguard unit of the Ottoman army during the Battle of Batočina.The Austrian army was victorious.http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Battle_of_Bato%C4%8Dina
pre 8 godina
Yugoslavia
There's a Persian saying AJALA KAR-E SHAITAN AST = HURRY IS A JOB OF EVIL. So was my misprint and it must be as foloows:
Just the way the Brits used QUFIA/SHEMAH shawl to differ their troops in Palestine (black) from their troops in Jordan (red).
pre 8 godina
Peter the Rocky
You are using Youtube and Wilipedia as sources to your claim. Is that the only "reliable" source you could find? Ha ha ha ha! Your entire history is a made up fairytail.
pre 8 godina
Avni, they used everybody, including the stupid tsar who let a small noisy clique drag Russia to the war. Romanovs and Italian royal family had members martied to daughters of Nikola I.
pre 8 godina
When it comes to the Ottomans everybody goes crazy denying any cooperation with them. But 470 years that the empire existed (1453-1923) were quite different. It started as a pure Orthodox Christian one and ended as the leader of the Muslim world. Before 1613 it was a province of the Great Horde called there as ТИВЕРСКИЕ/ТВЕРСКИЕ ЗЕМЛИ and ended as an empire of 5 000 000 sq/km.
Today I read about the Angora/Ankara Battle of 1402 when the Osmans were defeated and the empire stopped to exist for some 15 years. See what is written in Russian Wikipedia : «Кроме собственно османских войск, янычар и надёжных сербов, армия Баязида включала солдат из мелких государств-бейликов»
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B0
“reliable Serbs” is something that I try to explain here. But nobody hears me because in your school books they told you that Osmans were Turks. Also ask yourself why after Kosovo and Angora battles where Murad-I and his son Bayased-I were killed nobody even tried to seize their lands? The answer is simple – because in that case the winners would have to deal with the White Horde.
The civil war of 1370-1415 in the Great Horde was a religious war between the Royal and the Apostolic Christianity when no territories were seized. Tamerlane fought on behalf of the Royals while the Atamans/Ottomans were Apostolic and so were Serbs. Islam was formalized 150 years later.
pre 8 godina
RighteousBilly : Wrong side: Ottoman empire in 1804, 1912, … 1941-1945
Those were too different wars to put them in one sentence. At least in 1804-1821 the Ottomans defended the way Serbs did during the Yugoslavian wars. Yes Shqips made wrong stakes in WW2 but 90% of Europe did the same. As for the Balkan Wars many peoples did not know what to do with the newly obtained independence. Besides they became independent only from the Ottomans but not from other big powers. See what Bulgaria was doing … So I wouldn’t be that strict about the Shqiptars before the Kosovo events when they made the victims’ show to bring outside powers and steal the province.
pre 8 godina
Joni and her fairytales-if you must know it was the result of the Balkan wars that led to the formation of Albania. Serbia and Greece defeated the Ottoman Turks, Albanian cowards were no where to be found. Serbia was forced to withdraw from Durrazo. How the cowardly Albanian Turks were defeated in 1999, the same in 1912. The only country in the world where other nations fought for its freedom. How embarrassing!
(Jugoslavija, 19 April 2016 15:16)
Serbs always fall for this machismo BS. This is what strategy looks like dude. You had Serbia and Greece allies of Russia and then the Ottomans. Greeks want lands up to the Shkumbin River. Serbs want lands down to the Shkumbin River. The Ottomans don't wanna give up anything. You let them fight it out real good. Then attack them when they're the most vulnerable (when they retreat for example). That's how you get to be independent when you have three countries that want to wipe you out of existence.We did the same in 1999. Act as much as you want but how many Serb tanks are there in Kosova now?
Also Esat Pasha is the biggest piece of $hit in Albanian history. You made a deal with him, your troops deserve that ending. There was a lottery to kill the dude. They killed him in the middle of the day in Paris and the killer was set free. This is to show you the piece of $hit Serbia entrusted it's soldiers' lives to. Not to shabby for a ppl with tails (Serb govt official claiming why Albania was the heart of Serbia). Sounds familiar?
pre 8 godina
In communist Albania and Yugoslavia Serbs were prosecuted.
(RighteousBilly, 19 April 2016 07:44)
What does Albania had to do with Yugoslavia Serbs being prosecuted?!
-----------
Communist Albania supported Stalin.
(RighteousBilly, 19 April 2016 07:44)
What's wrong with supporting mother Russia?! Is that a privilege reserved to Serbia only lol
----------
Albanians never answered because we let them to get away with murder.
(RighteousBilly, 19 April 2016 07:44)
Please feel free to go after the murderers (regardless of their ethnicity). You'll do a favor to mankind.
----------
When USA world order fails and Russia, China wins we shouldnt forgive or forget you.
(RighteousBilly, 19 April 2016 07:44)
Dear, USA has already collapsed and run out of cash already according to the CE of 92 forums sj, so not sure where you see this USA world order. You must be hallucinating :)
P.S. CE = Chief Economist
pre 8 godina
@rote
You failed to explain why the Serbian insurrection in 1804 was "different". Karadjeordjevic was the only Balkan leader to overthrow the Turkish garrisons. Russian prince Alexander Ypsilanti failed miserably to being promised support and was trounced in Romania. Now let me hear your alternative history and who was Ypsilanti according to your version of history.
pre 8 godina
Read and learn your Serbian history my Dear Serbian Brothers and Sisters! If you have any doubts at all then our Slavic and our Christian Eastern Orthodox sacred and ancient history will clear it all! Our ancient Fathers paid in full with their sweat, blood and tears, all of what was Jugoslavia yesterday is ours and now look who murdered us again and stole from us! Tamo Daleko, Tamo Moja Srbija!!!
pre 8 godina
@The Truth.
You have an creditably uneducated and simplistic view of the causes of the First World War. The root causes of the Great War were principally the competing Imperial, economic, geo-political and territorial ambitions of the Great European Empires. Adding to this was the internal tensions in the multi-ethnic Empires of Germany, who occupied and incorporated Poles, Danes and French along with parts of their national territories, and the Austro-Hungarian Empire, who occupied and incorporated Romanians, Czechs, Slovaks, Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, Bosniaks, Italians along with parts of their national territories. The Russian as well as the decaying Ottoman Empire were experiencing similar occurrences.
These root causes were moving these Great Powers to war, the events in Sarajevo were the spark that lit the fuse. If not there, another incident where the interests of these Great Powers overlapped would of had the same impact.
The Kingdom of Serbia at this time only comprised of it's national territory that was occupied by the Ottoman Empire, which it managed to gain freedom from gradually during the 19th century and during the Balkan Wars before 1914. Romania, Bulgaria, Greece and Montenegro all gradually started to gain parts of their national territory during the same period. Serbs have also lived in the national territories with their current borders, as well as in Bosnia & Herzegovina [in both the RS and in the FBiH] and in Croatia - [the old Military Frontier].
pre 8 godina
@The Truth.
Your attempts to paint Serbs as the cause of WW1 and stealing territory is tiring, incorrect and just plain pathetic. Northern Epirus was initially awarded to Greece after WW1 and was only given to Albania in 1921 at the instance principally of Italy who had territorial ambitions towards Albania, despite it's Greek population wanting otherwise, and Mala Prespa was part of the historical region of Macedonia, with a Macedonian presence still there currently.
pre 8 godina
Too bad Austria-Hungary didn't stay as passive in the Balkan wars as Russia did. Albanians rebelled on their own while 90 percent of weapons serbs used came from Austria-Hungary and west. Truth is that turks were not oppressing nobody in 1913, even russians now say that they were lies made up by christian separatists and the expansionist christian states. Serbs were willing to lie and do anything to get Kosovo, Bosnia and rest of the areas they considered to be part of the mythical Dusan empire. Doesn't it bother serbs at all that millions of their so called russian brothers died during and after the war. I suppose Tsar 13 yeard old son was expandable to a common good known as Greater Serbia.
pre 8 godina
Jugoslavija : “You failed to explain why the Serbian insurrection in 1804 was "different”
If you look through your own comment and reread mine you will find that in the context I said that in early 19 century the Ottomans were in the same position that the Serbs were in the 90-th. Both defended their territorial integrity and the existing laws. But you blamed the Shqips for defending the Ottomans whom they obeyed at the time. For the Ottomans both Greeks and Serbs were separatists … As simple as that. Greeks were granted with their fantastic history then.
Now concerning my vision of the events. In 1775 the Siberian-American Russian State marked in Encyclopedia of Britannica of 1771 (page 883) as Great Tartaria was defeated. It was the biggest and the last independent piece of the Great Horde. The Russians were attacked from two sides. The Romanovs invaded Siberia while the USA moved to the continent where only Russian Indians lived. Germany sent about 230 000 men reinforcement to America and God knows how many to Siberia.
Next in 1798 Napoleon invaded Egypt to find place for Jerusalem. There he met the Russian Mameluks and he defeated therm. He robbed the pyramids and destroyed the Sphinx but later he had to run back home.
Then Britain and France started to provoke Christians to rebel. Because the Ottomans were the only part of the former Horde that was not destroyed yet. As a result the Armenians , Greeks and Yezids were massacred. The rest you know.
pre 8 godina
As a result any WW immediately turned to civil wars and ethnic conflicts on the Balkans. So I think that federation was the best choice for former Ottoman lands. Now any interpretation of the events in the past is dangerous for the peace we all dream to obtain.
(rote, 18 April 2016 16:55)
The Bulgarians, Serbians, Greeks and Romanians have a distinct history and statehood so really not sure what you are talking about. As far as Ottoman rule, it was not really consolidated in the Balkans until the 16th century in Serbia and never in Montenegro. The Schism is clearly evident between the Ottoman empire and the Western empires. One example is King Louis II of Hungary led armies against the Ottomans where many soldiers were Balkan Slavs.
pre 8 godina
Methinks a number of commentators on this thread ought to avail themselves of books written by none partizan/bias authors re Balkans.
Some of the nonsense written below is no more than 'Tales from your Grandads knee' or worse 'coffee bars'
pre 8 godina
A) Hungary is not west, never has been and never will be and b) brits were involved along with french due to economic interests of the Anglo-Iranian oil company.
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