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Tuesday, 16.02.2016.

16:25

Moscow expects Serbia will stick to policy of neutrality

Russia notes that Serbia is developing relations with NATO, but counts on the country adhering to the policy of military neutrality.

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J

pre 8 godina

The Serb exodus out of Kosovo was partially economic, but the much greater part was a coordinated effort to force them out by the province's ethnic majority.

Click below to read American Newspapers of the 1980's (before Milosevic ever even came to power).

[link]

Th events of 1999 did not just sprout up over night, they were part of a 40 year plan.
(factman, 20 February 2016 04:55)

Two things:

1. Serbia and the Serb government had the monopoly on propaganda until the late 1990's. It had better relations with the West than Albania up to that point, hence that side of the story was always the loudest. Albanians could not count on getting heard, especially with the animosity the likes of Hoxha and Alia had towards the West for 45 years. So of course you would hear the Serbian version of the story.

2. Serbia, starting in the late 1800's early 1900's, engadged in ethnic cleansing, with deals made with the Ottomans, and through such things as The Land Reforms which were nothing but coolisation programs. Not to mention actual detailed plans by Serb government officials ,Cubrilovic and later Seselj, on the expulsion of Albanians from Kosova.Couple this with the installment of a Serb apartheid in Kosova and much lower economic development and what you have is a Serb population that would have to watch their backs because the resentment was huge. Why do that when you could make more money in Serbia and live better?

factman

pre 8 godina

The Serb exodus out of Kosovo was partially economic, but the much greater part was a coordinated effort to force them out by the province's ethnic majority.

Click below to read American Newspapers of the 1980's (before Milosevic ever even came to power).

http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/benworks/1980news.html

Th events of 1999 did not just sprout up over night, they were part of a 40 year plan.

icj1

pre 8 godina

Somehow imaginary Communist provincial borders drawn up by Milovan Djilas after WWII became international borders and countries.

You seem to forget the forced exodus of Serbian civilians from Kosovo Polje accelerating in the 1970's and 1980's and completely ignored by the Albanian and Federal Communist leaderships.
(Jugoslavija, 18 February 2016 18:10)

That's why Serbia should have not been greedy about creating a Serbian empire under the disguise of Yugoslavia after WWI.

If Serbia had instead stayed on its own, it would not have suffered all those injustices (whether real or imaginary) that you described. Unfortunately, Serbia shoot itself on the foot with its greed and dreams of grandeur.

J

pre 8 godina

NATO is the instrument, the US and its western allies ignited the Yugoslavian revolution. Nobody wanted to tackle the fact that Serbian civilians wanted to remain within a federated Yugoslavia.

-- Jugoslavia, why would the wishes of the Serb people to remain within Jugoslavia be more important and outplace the wishes of all the other ethnicities not to remain in Jugoslavia?


You seem to forget the forced exodus of Serbian civilians from Kosovo Polje accelerating in the 1970's and 1980's and completely ignored by the Albanian and Federal Communist leaderships.

--Forced by whom? The Serbs in Kosova were in charge of police, army, finance, and just about every vital field of life in Kosova. Or could it simply be because the average Serbs were feeling the same economic pressures as Albanians were feeling. And while the Serbs of Kosova had Serbia to migrate to, the Albanians' best choice were countries like Germany or Switzerland. There was mass migration of Kosova Albanians in the 70's and 80's going on as well. Serbs convinietly forget this.

Jugoslavija

pre 8 godina

Jugo

You like to blame NATO, but be sure the problems that cost lives were not initiated by them.
(Bob, 18 February 2016 04:51)

NATO is the instrument, the US and its western allies ignited the Yugoslavian revolution. Nobody wanted to tackle the fact that Serbian civilians wanted to remain within a federated Yugoslavia.

Somehow imaginary Communist provincial borders drawn up by Milovan Djilas after WWII became international borders and countries.

You seem to forget the forced exodus of Serbian civilians from Kosovo Polje accelerating in the 1970's and 1980's and completely ignored by the Albanian and Federal Communist leaderships.

Bob

pre 8 godina

Jugo

You like to blame NATO, but be sure the problems that cost lives were not initiated by them.

There were refugees who were trying to trace missing relatives queuing on the steps at the Belgrade Red Cross long before Storm and before any military action from NATO.

In fact I knew the guy whose job was to count the refugees. He was in favour of readjusting borders to account for demographics because of the inhumanity that was occurring, in particular in the context of Kosovo where Albania was under resourced and over populated.

I didn't agree with that policy, but I did understand his argument.

We both agreed that Milosevic was wasting people's lives and dragging Serbia into the pit.

rote

pre 8 godina

The Curves of Kosovo & Metohija

How d’you like the song Мы Русские...С нами Бог!!! and the parade? ….. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RYPGOKkN2k …. By the way you don’t have to worry about the gay parades. We are not so advanced as you are so they are officially forbidden here till 2112 … And of course I wish I could take part at a parade on the Beautiful Square misinterpreted as the Red Square!

The Count of Kosova

pre 8 godina

rote, So, you are saying "our relations" is an internal family issue. Isn't that incest, but that is your business. Who is the pederast now!

In my country word PEDERAST has nothing to do with incest. There are two meanings that are synonymous here – BAD MAN and GAY as a gay can never be a good man. So when I call you PEDERASTS I mean that you are very bad men only. You could guess it by yourself if you look into the mirror now and then or read your own poisoned posts here.

[link]
(rote, 17 February 2016 16:07)


rote,
That video you posted a link to is a Russian Rainbow parade. I assume you are marching in that parade. I thought gay parades were banned in Russia.

Jugoslavija

pre 8 godina

I was against the bombing - a year before it happened I was angry because I could see Milosevic's stupidity and disregard for Serbian lives. I severely questioned why he was being provocative and non-responsive to the forces he was inviting to be unleashed.

(Bob, 17 February 2016 15:12)

Are you sure you live in Serbia? How many Serbian refugees flooded into Belgrade after Operation Storm? How many Serbian refugees from Kosovo flooded into Serbia after Milosevic pulled Serbian troops from Kosovo and UNMIK and EULEX took over. It seems to be NATO and it's proxies UNMIK, EULEX and KFOR has a great disregard for both Serbian and Albanian lives for that matter.

rote

pre 8 godina

rote, So, you are saying "our relations" is an internal family issue. Isn't that incest, but that is your business. Who is the pederast now!

In my country word PEDERAST has nothing to do with incest. There are two meanings that are synonymous here – BAD MAN and GAY as a gay can never be a good man. So when I call you PEDERASTS I mean that you are very bad men only. You could guess it by yourself if you look into the mirror now and then or read your own poisoned posts here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpb_Cgt3YnU

Bob

pre 8 godina

sj

They are not my Albanians, I am pro Serbia. That's why I despise Shesselle and Milosevic. That's why I call rabid nationalists traitors to Serbia - they have been a diplomatic failure for Serbia.

I was against the bombing - a year before it happened I was angry because I could see Milosevic's stupidity and disregard for Serbian lives. I severely questioned why he was being provocative and non-responsive to the forces he was inviting to be unleashed.

Serbia deserves a better place in the world, but it needs to shed those with a chip on their shoulder who drag Serbian politics into antagonism - what my family want is to live peaceful lives with a reasonable economy. Serbia has yet to recover from the highly corrupt (and stupid) Milosevic mess-up.

NATO is a wet blanket to nationalists, because it stomped on the local violence and put a stop to it. Whether it did it the best way possible is debatable, but be sure that the good stomping WORKED.

LK

pre 8 godina

"Shame on Vucic.
This criminal organisation called NATO bombed Serbia killing innocent civilians and foreign Chinese diplomats.And now you want to rub salt in the wounds of the proud Serb people.They will always look down upon our people. They laugh at us. Enough is enough. Let's no get tricked again. We go down in historty as the aggressors. We belong with Russia not U.S or west. Slavs like Poland,Ukraine,Czech,Croats,Slovene all kiss the feet and bow down to the enemy. Serbia will be next if we continue being submissive. Shame on Vucic.
(Smart Serb, 17 February 2016 12:36) "

Do you honestly wonder why Poland and so many east European countries that were behind the Iron Curtain do not favor Russia? Why would they consider the US, EU, or NATO an enemy after five decades of Russian oppression under the USSR and Warsaw Pact? Try living on the Russian border or Russia's perceived zone of influence before making those same comments. It's easy for Serbia, so far away from Russia (farther than United States even) to criticize fellow Slavs who turned away from Russia when you never felt real Russian repression like your Slavic neighbors to the north and east.

EU Citizen

pre 8 godina

(Bob, 16 February 2016 22:53)
Now what has the west brought your Albanians in Kosovo?
(sj, 17 February 2016 13:05)

sj,
For starters, the Kosovars no longer have to smell the stench of you and your ilk. When I travel to Kosova, I have noticed the air quality has improved immensely since 1999.

sj

pre 8 godina

(Bob, 16 February 2016 22:53)
Now what has the west brought your Albanians in Kosovo? NOTHING. They have not even paid for the removal of depleted uranium they dropped in 1999.
Wake up and grow up. This is not 1976, but 2016. The motto of the west in 1976 was not ask what you can do for us but what we can do for you. Today it’s what you can do for them – NO more MONEY.

Smart Serb

pre 8 godina

Shame on Vucic.
This criminal organisation called NATO bombed Serbia killing innocent civilians and foreign Chinese diplomats.And now you want to rub salt in the wounds of the proud Serb people.They will always look down upon our people. They laugh at us. Enough is enough. Let's no get tricked again. We go down in historty as the aggressors. We belong with Russia not U.S or west. Slavs like Poland,Ukraine,Czech,Croats,Slovene all kiss the feet and bow down to the enemy. Serbia will be next if we continue being submissive. Shame on Vucic.

The Count of Kosova

pre 8 godina

PEDERAST,

WE DON’T CARE WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT OUR RELATIONS AS IT’S AN INTERNAL FAMILY ISSUE.
(rote, 17 February 2016 10:29)

rote,
So, you are saying "our relations" is an internal family issue. Isn't that incest, but that is your business. Who is the pederast now!

dennis

pre 8 godina

Vucic' goal is for Serbia to join NATO not because of the Kosovo Serbs but because of EU integration and his hunger for power which gets satisfied by the western political elite, not by his electorate.

icj1

pre 8 godina

"Moscow expects Serbia to stick to policy of neutrality"

Will Vucic send a letter of protest to Russia, as well, for the arrogant behavior above towards Serbia (much worse than ICTY's "arrogance")?

Peter the rocky

pre 8 godina

Russia notes that Serbia is developing relations with NATO, but counts on the country adhering to the policy of military neutrality.

Ah my little Bolsheviks back in Russia I see the hairs on your spine begging to rise, yes Serbia to will soon be a NATO member and you will soon see Serbian troops as part of NATO contingencies fighting along side other NATO members against primitive Russian policies around the world!!! The Russian bear has lost her cubs as they have been fed up with Russian lies! Yes my Russian madam your last satellite and bastion in Europe will soon be a dream of the past, only a few more radical Chetniks remaine & they will soon hand over the keys!!!

Principa

pre 8 godina

Bob

"I followed the Kosovo crisis very closely, and from very close up, and spent a long time trying to find accurate figures.

Two years after the war had ended Human Rights Watch documented 3,453 killings by Serbian or Yugoslav government forces while the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) had exhumed approximately 4,300 bodies. Kosovo is a small place and was very thoroughly investigated. I have spoken to dozens of human rights and war crimes investigators and most use 5,000 as a working figure. Are you sure that we are all wrong?

However, your claim that "hundreds of thousands of Kosovar Albanians" were expelled from their homes before the start of NATO air strikes is most definitely incorrect. This happened after the start of the bombing campaign, which is more than a minor detail, given the rest of your argument. Sorry to repeat myself, but the death toll was in the hundreds before Nato intervened." http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/apr/20/oliverkammvconorfoley

Perhaps if NATO action was not built on deceit many thousands of people would still be alive in Serbia and a genocide of non-Albanians (countenanced by NATO since its intervention aligned with terrorist KLA from 1999 onwards) would not have been and the failure to intervene in Kosovo based upon lies would have perhaps stopped the deaths of hundreds of thousands in IRAQ - once more a lie led illegal war of NATO.

sasa.p

pre 8 godina

The more rabid nationalistic Serbs were humiliated by the NATO bombing. However, I suspect that most Serbs realise that the fault lay with Milosevic's stupid provocative politics.

NATO can be a friend to those who don't go around killing neighbours, and there is no reason why Serbia should not be in NATO. I really do hope that Serbia has backed out of the blind alley it went up in under the tutalidge of rabid nationalists.

Milosevic was a traitor to Serbia, selling it out for his own status. If he hadn't been so stupid, greedy and selfish, Serbia would not have had to endure his invitation to NATO to come and bomb.

Those who squeak anti-NATO have a chip on their shoulder, but there's many who don't share their feeling of humiliation.
(Bob, 16 February 2016 22:53) # Comment link,

To Fairy tale Bob,
You need to live in Serbia and ask the the Serb people (like I did ,when I arrived ), if they like to join NATO, before you open your wrong big mouth!
In a national vote :for joining NATO about 20% .:for joining Russian military about 30% ,: 50℅ for neutral stance.

Bob

pre 8 godina

The more rabid nationalistic Serbs were humiliated by the NATO bombing. However, I suspect that most Serbs realise that the fault lay with Milosevic's stupid provocative politics.

NATO can be a friend to those who don't go around killing neighbours, and there is no reason why Serbia should not be in NATO. I really do hope that Serbia has backed out of the blind alley it went up in under the tutalidge of rabid nationalists.

Milosevic was a traitor to Serbia, selling it out for his own status. If he hadn't been so stupid, greedy and selfish, Serbia would not have had to endure his invitation to NATO to come and bomb.

Those who squeak anti-NATO have a chip on their shoulder, but there's many who don't share their feeling of humiliation.

Madeleine A.

pre 8 godina

"Moscow expects Serbia to stick to policy of neutrality"

It sure sounds like a threat to me. Serbia had better do what Mother says or be prepared for very cold winters in years to come. On the other hand, she had better beg NATO for membership, otherwise, NATO will see to it that no Russian fuel enters Serbia.

Principa

pre 8 godina

Serbians will topple any government who dare to even suggest such absurdity as NATO membership! Montenegro's western cronies may just scrape by into membership though Serbia will never come anywhere near to such crazy notions.

I guess if NATO unreservedly apologised, paid reperations in the 100 of Billions ($) and ensured full safety for all Serbian citizens and its institutions in its Southern province and ensured all political recognitions by all NATO members was rescinded then clearly we would be in a different scenario.

Principa

pre 8 godina

Serbians will topple any government who dare to even suggest such absurdity as NATO membership! Montenegro's western cronies may just scrape by into membership though Serbia will never come anywhere near to such crazy notions.

I guess if NATO unreservedly apologised, paid reperations in the 100 of Billions ($) and ensured full safety for all Serbian citizens and its institutions in its Southern province and ensured all political recognitions by all NATO members was rescinded then clearly we would be in a different scenario.

Bob

pre 8 godina

The more rabid nationalistic Serbs were humiliated by the NATO bombing. However, I suspect that most Serbs realise that the fault lay with Milosevic's stupid provocative politics.

NATO can be a friend to those who don't go around killing neighbours, and there is no reason why Serbia should not be in NATO. I really do hope that Serbia has backed out of the blind alley it went up in under the tutalidge of rabid nationalists.

Milosevic was a traitor to Serbia, selling it out for his own status. If he hadn't been so stupid, greedy and selfish, Serbia would not have had to endure his invitation to NATO to come and bomb.

Those who squeak anti-NATO have a chip on their shoulder, but there's many who don't share their feeling of humiliation.

Madeleine A.

pre 8 godina

"Moscow expects Serbia to stick to policy of neutrality"

It sure sounds like a threat to me. Serbia had better do what Mother says or be prepared for very cold winters in years to come. On the other hand, she had better beg NATO for membership, otherwise, NATO will see to it that no Russian fuel enters Serbia.

Peter the rocky

pre 8 godina

Russia notes that Serbia is developing relations with NATO, but counts on the country adhering to the policy of military neutrality.

Ah my little Bolsheviks back in Russia I see the hairs on your spine begging to rise, yes Serbia to will soon be a NATO member and you will soon see Serbian troops as part of NATO contingencies fighting along side other NATO members against primitive Russian policies around the world!!! The Russian bear has lost her cubs as they have been fed up with Russian lies! Yes my Russian madam your last satellite and bastion in Europe will soon be a dream of the past, only a few more radical Chetniks remaine & they will soon hand over the keys!!!

icj1

pre 8 godina

"Moscow expects Serbia to stick to policy of neutrality"

Will Vucic send a letter of protest to Russia, as well, for the arrogant behavior above towards Serbia (much worse than ICTY's "arrogance")?

LK

pre 8 godina

"Shame on Vucic.
This criminal organisation called NATO bombed Serbia killing innocent civilians and foreign Chinese diplomats.And now you want to rub salt in the wounds of the proud Serb people.They will always look down upon our people. They laugh at us. Enough is enough. Let's no get tricked again. We go down in historty as the aggressors. We belong with Russia not U.S or west. Slavs like Poland,Ukraine,Czech,Croats,Slovene all kiss the feet and bow down to the enemy. Serbia will be next if we continue being submissive. Shame on Vucic.
(Smart Serb, 17 February 2016 12:36) "

Do you honestly wonder why Poland and so many east European countries that were behind the Iron Curtain do not favor Russia? Why would they consider the US, EU, or NATO an enemy after five decades of Russian oppression under the USSR and Warsaw Pact? Try living on the Russian border or Russia's perceived zone of influence before making those same comments. It's easy for Serbia, so far away from Russia (farther than United States even) to criticize fellow Slavs who turned away from Russia when you never felt real Russian repression like your Slavic neighbors to the north and east.

The Count of Kosova

pre 8 godina

PEDERAST,

WE DON’T CARE WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT OUR RELATIONS AS IT’S AN INTERNAL FAMILY ISSUE.
(rote, 17 February 2016 10:29)

rote,
So, you are saying "our relations" is an internal family issue. Isn't that incest, but that is your business. Who is the pederast now!

EU Citizen

pre 8 godina

(Bob, 16 February 2016 22:53)
Now what has the west brought your Albanians in Kosovo?
(sj, 17 February 2016 13:05)

sj,
For starters, the Kosovars no longer have to smell the stench of you and your ilk. When I travel to Kosova, I have noticed the air quality has improved immensely since 1999.

Bob

pre 8 godina

sj

They are not my Albanians, I am pro Serbia. That's why I despise Shesselle and Milosevic. That's why I call rabid nationalists traitors to Serbia - they have been a diplomatic failure for Serbia.

I was against the bombing - a year before it happened I was angry because I could see Milosevic's stupidity and disregard for Serbian lives. I severely questioned why he was being provocative and non-responsive to the forces he was inviting to be unleashed.

Serbia deserves a better place in the world, but it needs to shed those with a chip on their shoulder who drag Serbian politics into antagonism - what my family want is to live peaceful lives with a reasonable economy. Serbia has yet to recover from the highly corrupt (and stupid) Milosevic mess-up.

NATO is a wet blanket to nationalists, because it stomped on the local violence and put a stop to it. Whether it did it the best way possible is debatable, but be sure that the good stomping WORKED.

Jugoslavija

pre 8 godina

I was against the bombing - a year before it happened I was angry because I could see Milosevic's stupidity and disregard for Serbian lives. I severely questioned why he was being provocative and non-responsive to the forces he was inviting to be unleashed.

(Bob, 17 February 2016 15:12)

Are you sure you live in Serbia? How many Serbian refugees flooded into Belgrade after Operation Storm? How many Serbian refugees from Kosovo flooded into Serbia after Milosevic pulled Serbian troops from Kosovo and UNMIK and EULEX took over. It seems to be NATO and it's proxies UNMIK, EULEX and KFOR has a great disregard for both Serbian and Albanian lives for that matter.

Smart Serb

pre 8 godina

Shame on Vucic.
This criminal organisation called NATO bombed Serbia killing innocent civilians and foreign Chinese diplomats.And now you want to rub salt in the wounds of the proud Serb people.They will always look down upon our people. They laugh at us. Enough is enough. Let's no get tricked again. We go down in historty as the aggressors. We belong with Russia not U.S or west. Slavs like Poland,Ukraine,Czech,Croats,Slovene all kiss the feet and bow down to the enemy. Serbia will be next if we continue being submissive. Shame on Vucic.

rote

pre 8 godina

rote, So, you are saying "our relations" is an internal family issue. Isn't that incest, but that is your business. Who is the pederast now!

In my country word PEDERAST has nothing to do with incest. There are two meanings that are synonymous here – BAD MAN and GAY as a gay can never be a good man. So when I call you PEDERASTS I mean that you are very bad men only. You could guess it by yourself if you look into the mirror now and then or read your own poisoned posts here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpb_Cgt3YnU

sasa.p

pre 8 godina

The more rabid nationalistic Serbs were humiliated by the NATO bombing. However, I suspect that most Serbs realise that the fault lay with Milosevic's stupid provocative politics.

NATO can be a friend to those who don't go around killing neighbours, and there is no reason why Serbia should not be in NATO. I really do hope that Serbia has backed out of the blind alley it went up in under the tutalidge of rabid nationalists.

Milosevic was a traitor to Serbia, selling it out for his own status. If he hadn't been so stupid, greedy and selfish, Serbia would not have had to endure his invitation to NATO to come and bomb.

Those who squeak anti-NATO have a chip on their shoulder, but there's many who don't share their feeling of humiliation.
(Bob, 16 February 2016 22:53) # Comment link,

To Fairy tale Bob,
You need to live in Serbia and ask the the Serb people (like I did ,when I arrived ), if they like to join NATO, before you open your wrong big mouth!
In a national vote :for joining NATO about 20% .:for joining Russian military about 30% ,: 50℅ for neutral stance.

dennis

pre 8 godina

Vucic' goal is for Serbia to join NATO not because of the Kosovo Serbs but because of EU integration and his hunger for power which gets satisfied by the western political elite, not by his electorate.

sj

pre 8 godina

(Bob, 16 February 2016 22:53)
Now what has the west brought your Albanians in Kosovo? NOTHING. They have not even paid for the removal of depleted uranium they dropped in 1999.
Wake up and grow up. This is not 1976, but 2016. The motto of the west in 1976 was not ask what you can do for us but what we can do for you. Today it’s what you can do for them – NO more MONEY.

rote

pre 8 godina

The Curves of Kosovo & Metohija

How d’you like the song Мы Русские...С нами Бог!!! and the parade? ….. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RYPGOKkN2k …. By the way you don’t have to worry about the gay parades. We are not so advanced as you are so they are officially forbidden here till 2112 … And of course I wish I could take part at a parade on the Beautiful Square misinterpreted as the Red Square!

Principa

pre 8 godina

Bob

"I followed the Kosovo crisis very closely, and from very close up, and spent a long time trying to find accurate figures.

Two years after the war had ended Human Rights Watch documented 3,453 killings by Serbian or Yugoslav government forces while the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) had exhumed approximately 4,300 bodies. Kosovo is a small place and was very thoroughly investigated. I have spoken to dozens of human rights and war crimes investigators and most use 5,000 as a working figure. Are you sure that we are all wrong?

However, your claim that "hundreds of thousands of Kosovar Albanians" were expelled from their homes before the start of NATO air strikes is most definitely incorrect. This happened after the start of the bombing campaign, which is more than a minor detail, given the rest of your argument. Sorry to repeat myself, but the death toll was in the hundreds before Nato intervened." http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/apr/20/oliverkammvconorfoley

Perhaps if NATO action was not built on deceit many thousands of people would still be alive in Serbia and a genocide of non-Albanians (countenanced by NATO since its intervention aligned with terrorist KLA from 1999 onwards) would not have been and the failure to intervene in Kosovo based upon lies would have perhaps stopped the deaths of hundreds of thousands in IRAQ - once more a lie led illegal war of NATO.

The Count of Kosova

pre 8 godina

rote, So, you are saying "our relations" is an internal family issue. Isn't that incest, but that is your business. Who is the pederast now!

In my country word PEDERAST has nothing to do with incest. There are two meanings that are synonymous here – BAD MAN and GAY as a gay can never be a good man. So when I call you PEDERASTS I mean that you are very bad men only. You could guess it by yourself if you look into the mirror now and then or read your own poisoned posts here.

[link]
(rote, 17 February 2016 16:07)


rote,
That video you posted a link to is a Russian Rainbow parade. I assume you are marching in that parade. I thought gay parades were banned in Russia.

Bob

pre 8 godina

Jugo

You like to blame NATO, but be sure the problems that cost lives were not initiated by them.

There were refugees who were trying to trace missing relatives queuing on the steps at the Belgrade Red Cross long before Storm and before any military action from NATO.

In fact I knew the guy whose job was to count the refugees. He was in favour of readjusting borders to account for demographics because of the inhumanity that was occurring, in particular in the context of Kosovo where Albania was under resourced and over populated.

I didn't agree with that policy, but I did understand his argument.

We both agreed that Milosevic was wasting people's lives and dragging Serbia into the pit.

Jugoslavija

pre 8 godina

Jugo

You like to blame NATO, but be sure the problems that cost lives were not initiated by them.
(Bob, 18 February 2016 04:51)

NATO is the instrument, the US and its western allies ignited the Yugoslavian revolution. Nobody wanted to tackle the fact that Serbian civilians wanted to remain within a federated Yugoslavia.

Somehow imaginary Communist provincial borders drawn up by Milovan Djilas after WWII became international borders and countries.

You seem to forget the forced exodus of Serbian civilians from Kosovo Polje accelerating in the 1970's and 1980's and completely ignored by the Albanian and Federal Communist leaderships.

J

pre 8 godina

NATO is the instrument, the US and its western allies ignited the Yugoslavian revolution. Nobody wanted to tackle the fact that Serbian civilians wanted to remain within a federated Yugoslavia.

-- Jugoslavia, why would the wishes of the Serb people to remain within Jugoslavia be more important and outplace the wishes of all the other ethnicities not to remain in Jugoslavia?


You seem to forget the forced exodus of Serbian civilians from Kosovo Polje accelerating in the 1970's and 1980's and completely ignored by the Albanian and Federal Communist leaderships.

--Forced by whom? The Serbs in Kosova were in charge of police, army, finance, and just about every vital field of life in Kosova. Or could it simply be because the average Serbs were feeling the same economic pressures as Albanians were feeling. And while the Serbs of Kosova had Serbia to migrate to, the Albanians' best choice were countries like Germany or Switzerland. There was mass migration of Kosova Albanians in the 70's and 80's going on as well. Serbs convinietly forget this.

icj1

pre 8 godina

Somehow imaginary Communist provincial borders drawn up by Milovan Djilas after WWII became international borders and countries.

You seem to forget the forced exodus of Serbian civilians from Kosovo Polje accelerating in the 1970's and 1980's and completely ignored by the Albanian and Federal Communist leaderships.
(Jugoslavija, 18 February 2016 18:10)

That's why Serbia should have not been greedy about creating a Serbian empire under the disguise of Yugoslavia after WWI.

If Serbia had instead stayed on its own, it would not have suffered all those injustices (whether real or imaginary) that you described. Unfortunately, Serbia shoot itself on the foot with its greed and dreams of grandeur.

factman

pre 8 godina

The Serb exodus out of Kosovo was partially economic, but the much greater part was a coordinated effort to force them out by the province's ethnic majority.

Click below to read American Newspapers of the 1980's (before Milosevic ever even came to power).

http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/benworks/1980news.html

Th events of 1999 did not just sprout up over night, they were part of a 40 year plan.

J

pre 8 godina

The Serb exodus out of Kosovo was partially economic, but the much greater part was a coordinated effort to force them out by the province's ethnic majority.

Click below to read American Newspapers of the 1980's (before Milosevic ever even came to power).

[link]

Th events of 1999 did not just sprout up over night, they were part of a 40 year plan.
(factman, 20 February 2016 04:55)

Two things:

1. Serbia and the Serb government had the monopoly on propaganda until the late 1990's. It had better relations with the West than Albania up to that point, hence that side of the story was always the loudest. Albanians could not count on getting heard, especially with the animosity the likes of Hoxha and Alia had towards the West for 45 years. So of course you would hear the Serbian version of the story.

2. Serbia, starting in the late 1800's early 1900's, engadged in ethnic cleansing, with deals made with the Ottomans, and through such things as The Land Reforms which were nothing but coolisation programs. Not to mention actual detailed plans by Serb government officials ,Cubrilovic and later Seselj, on the expulsion of Albanians from Kosova.Couple this with the installment of a Serb apartheid in Kosova and much lower economic development and what you have is a Serb population that would have to watch their backs because the resentment was huge. Why do that when you could make more money in Serbia and live better?

Principa

pre 8 godina

Serbians will topple any government who dare to even suggest such absurdity as NATO membership! Montenegro's western cronies may just scrape by into membership though Serbia will never come anywhere near to such crazy notions.

I guess if NATO unreservedly apologised, paid reperations in the 100 of Billions ($) and ensured full safety for all Serbian citizens and its institutions in its Southern province and ensured all political recognitions by all NATO members was rescinded then clearly we would be in a different scenario.

Bob

pre 8 godina

The more rabid nationalistic Serbs were humiliated by the NATO bombing. However, I suspect that most Serbs realise that the fault lay with Milosevic's stupid provocative politics.

NATO can be a friend to those who don't go around killing neighbours, and there is no reason why Serbia should not be in NATO. I really do hope that Serbia has backed out of the blind alley it went up in under the tutalidge of rabid nationalists.

Milosevic was a traitor to Serbia, selling it out for his own status. If he hadn't been so stupid, greedy and selfish, Serbia would not have had to endure his invitation to NATO to come and bomb.

Those who squeak anti-NATO have a chip on their shoulder, but there's many who don't share their feeling of humiliation.

Madeleine A.

pre 8 godina

"Moscow expects Serbia to stick to policy of neutrality"

It sure sounds like a threat to me. Serbia had better do what Mother says or be prepared for very cold winters in years to come. On the other hand, she had better beg NATO for membership, otherwise, NATO will see to it that no Russian fuel enters Serbia.

rote

pre 8 godina

rote, So, you are saying "our relations" is an internal family issue. Isn't that incest, but that is your business. Who is the pederast now!

In my country word PEDERAST has nothing to do with incest. There are two meanings that are synonymous here – BAD MAN and GAY as a gay can never be a good man. So when I call you PEDERASTS I mean that you are very bad men only. You could guess it by yourself if you look into the mirror now and then or read your own poisoned posts here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpb_Cgt3YnU

sasa.p

pre 8 godina

The more rabid nationalistic Serbs were humiliated by the NATO bombing. However, I suspect that most Serbs realise that the fault lay with Milosevic's stupid provocative politics.

NATO can be a friend to those who don't go around killing neighbours, and there is no reason why Serbia should not be in NATO. I really do hope that Serbia has backed out of the blind alley it went up in under the tutalidge of rabid nationalists.

Milosevic was a traitor to Serbia, selling it out for his own status. If he hadn't been so stupid, greedy and selfish, Serbia would not have had to endure his invitation to NATO to come and bomb.

Those who squeak anti-NATO have a chip on their shoulder, but there's many who don't share their feeling of humiliation.
(Bob, 16 February 2016 22:53) # Comment link,

To Fairy tale Bob,
You need to live in Serbia and ask the the Serb people (like I did ,when I arrived ), if they like to join NATO, before you open your wrong big mouth!
In a national vote :for joining NATO about 20% .:for joining Russian military about 30% ,: 50℅ for neutral stance.

Smart Serb

pre 8 godina

Shame on Vucic.
This criminal organisation called NATO bombed Serbia killing innocent civilians and foreign Chinese diplomats.And now you want to rub salt in the wounds of the proud Serb people.They will always look down upon our people. They laugh at us. Enough is enough. Let's no get tricked again. We go down in historty as the aggressors. We belong with Russia not U.S or west. Slavs like Poland,Ukraine,Czech,Croats,Slovene all kiss the feet and bow down to the enemy. Serbia will be next if we continue being submissive. Shame on Vucic.

sj

pre 8 godina

(Bob, 16 February 2016 22:53)
Now what has the west brought your Albanians in Kosovo? NOTHING. They have not even paid for the removal of depleted uranium they dropped in 1999.
Wake up and grow up. This is not 1976, but 2016. The motto of the west in 1976 was not ask what you can do for us but what we can do for you. Today it’s what you can do for them – NO more MONEY.

Principa

pre 8 godina

Bob

"I followed the Kosovo crisis very closely, and from very close up, and spent a long time trying to find accurate figures.

Two years after the war had ended Human Rights Watch documented 3,453 killings by Serbian or Yugoslav government forces while the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) had exhumed approximately 4,300 bodies. Kosovo is a small place and was very thoroughly investigated. I have spoken to dozens of human rights and war crimes investigators and most use 5,000 as a working figure. Are you sure that we are all wrong?

However, your claim that "hundreds of thousands of Kosovar Albanians" were expelled from their homes before the start of NATO air strikes is most definitely incorrect. This happened after the start of the bombing campaign, which is more than a minor detail, given the rest of your argument. Sorry to repeat myself, but the death toll was in the hundreds before Nato intervened." http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/apr/20/oliverkammvconorfoley

Perhaps if NATO action was not built on deceit many thousands of people would still be alive in Serbia and a genocide of non-Albanians (countenanced by NATO since its intervention aligned with terrorist KLA from 1999 onwards) would not have been and the failure to intervene in Kosovo based upon lies would have perhaps stopped the deaths of hundreds of thousands in IRAQ - once more a lie led illegal war of NATO.

Peter the rocky

pre 8 godina

Russia notes that Serbia is developing relations with NATO, but counts on the country adhering to the policy of military neutrality.

Ah my little Bolsheviks back in Russia I see the hairs on your spine begging to rise, yes Serbia to will soon be a NATO member and you will soon see Serbian troops as part of NATO contingencies fighting along side other NATO members against primitive Russian policies around the world!!! The Russian bear has lost her cubs as they have been fed up with Russian lies! Yes my Russian madam your last satellite and bastion in Europe will soon be a dream of the past, only a few more radical Chetniks remaine & they will soon hand over the keys!!!

The Count of Kosova

pre 8 godina

PEDERAST,

WE DON’T CARE WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT OUR RELATIONS AS IT’S AN INTERNAL FAMILY ISSUE.
(rote, 17 February 2016 10:29)

rote,
So, you are saying "our relations" is an internal family issue. Isn't that incest, but that is your business. Who is the pederast now!

The Count of Kosova

pre 8 godina

rote, So, you are saying "our relations" is an internal family issue. Isn't that incest, but that is your business. Who is the pederast now!

In my country word PEDERAST has nothing to do with incest. There are two meanings that are synonymous here – BAD MAN and GAY as a gay can never be a good man. So when I call you PEDERASTS I mean that you are very bad men only. You could guess it by yourself if you look into the mirror now and then or read your own poisoned posts here.

[link]
(rote, 17 February 2016 16:07)


rote,
That video you posted a link to is a Russian Rainbow parade. I assume you are marching in that parade. I thought gay parades were banned in Russia.

EU Citizen

pre 8 godina

(Bob, 16 February 2016 22:53)
Now what has the west brought your Albanians in Kosovo?
(sj, 17 February 2016 13:05)

sj,
For starters, the Kosovars no longer have to smell the stench of you and your ilk. When I travel to Kosova, I have noticed the air quality has improved immensely since 1999.

Bob

pre 8 godina

sj

They are not my Albanians, I am pro Serbia. That's why I despise Shesselle and Milosevic. That's why I call rabid nationalists traitors to Serbia - they have been a diplomatic failure for Serbia.

I was against the bombing - a year before it happened I was angry because I could see Milosevic's stupidity and disregard for Serbian lives. I severely questioned why he was being provocative and non-responsive to the forces he was inviting to be unleashed.

Serbia deserves a better place in the world, but it needs to shed those with a chip on their shoulder who drag Serbian politics into antagonism - what my family want is to live peaceful lives with a reasonable economy. Serbia has yet to recover from the highly corrupt (and stupid) Milosevic mess-up.

NATO is a wet blanket to nationalists, because it stomped on the local violence and put a stop to it. Whether it did it the best way possible is debatable, but be sure that the good stomping WORKED.

Jugoslavija

pre 8 godina

I was against the bombing - a year before it happened I was angry because I could see Milosevic's stupidity and disregard for Serbian lives. I severely questioned why he was being provocative and non-responsive to the forces he was inviting to be unleashed.

(Bob, 17 February 2016 15:12)

Are you sure you live in Serbia? How many Serbian refugees flooded into Belgrade after Operation Storm? How many Serbian refugees from Kosovo flooded into Serbia after Milosevic pulled Serbian troops from Kosovo and UNMIK and EULEX took over. It seems to be NATO and it's proxies UNMIK, EULEX and KFOR has a great disregard for both Serbian and Albanian lives for that matter.

dennis

pre 8 godina

Vucic' goal is for Serbia to join NATO not because of the Kosovo Serbs but because of EU integration and his hunger for power which gets satisfied by the western political elite, not by his electorate.

LK

pre 8 godina

"Shame on Vucic.
This criminal organisation called NATO bombed Serbia killing innocent civilians and foreign Chinese diplomats.And now you want to rub salt in the wounds of the proud Serb people.They will always look down upon our people. They laugh at us. Enough is enough. Let's no get tricked again. We go down in historty as the aggressors. We belong with Russia not U.S or west. Slavs like Poland,Ukraine,Czech,Croats,Slovene all kiss the feet and bow down to the enemy. Serbia will be next if we continue being submissive. Shame on Vucic.
(Smart Serb, 17 February 2016 12:36) "

Do you honestly wonder why Poland and so many east European countries that were behind the Iron Curtain do not favor Russia? Why would they consider the US, EU, or NATO an enemy after five decades of Russian oppression under the USSR and Warsaw Pact? Try living on the Russian border or Russia's perceived zone of influence before making those same comments. It's easy for Serbia, so far away from Russia (farther than United States even) to criticize fellow Slavs who turned away from Russia when you never felt real Russian repression like your Slavic neighbors to the north and east.

rote

pre 8 godina

The Curves of Kosovo & Metohija

How d’you like the song Мы Русские...С нами Бог!!! and the parade? ….. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RYPGOKkN2k …. By the way you don’t have to worry about the gay parades. We are not so advanced as you are so they are officially forbidden here till 2112 … And of course I wish I could take part at a parade on the Beautiful Square misinterpreted as the Red Square!

Bob

pre 8 godina

Jugo

You like to blame NATO, but be sure the problems that cost lives were not initiated by them.

There were refugees who were trying to trace missing relatives queuing on the steps at the Belgrade Red Cross long before Storm and before any military action from NATO.

In fact I knew the guy whose job was to count the refugees. He was in favour of readjusting borders to account for demographics because of the inhumanity that was occurring, in particular in the context of Kosovo where Albania was under resourced and over populated.

I didn't agree with that policy, but I did understand his argument.

We both agreed that Milosevic was wasting people's lives and dragging Serbia into the pit.

icj1

pre 8 godina

"Moscow expects Serbia to stick to policy of neutrality"

Will Vucic send a letter of protest to Russia, as well, for the arrogant behavior above towards Serbia (much worse than ICTY's "arrogance")?

Jugoslavija

pre 8 godina

Jugo

You like to blame NATO, but be sure the problems that cost lives were not initiated by them.
(Bob, 18 February 2016 04:51)

NATO is the instrument, the US and its western allies ignited the Yugoslavian revolution. Nobody wanted to tackle the fact that Serbian civilians wanted to remain within a federated Yugoslavia.

Somehow imaginary Communist provincial borders drawn up by Milovan Djilas after WWII became international borders and countries.

You seem to forget the forced exodus of Serbian civilians from Kosovo Polje accelerating in the 1970's and 1980's and completely ignored by the Albanian and Federal Communist leaderships.

factman

pre 8 godina

The Serb exodus out of Kosovo was partially economic, but the much greater part was a coordinated effort to force them out by the province's ethnic majority.

Click below to read American Newspapers of the 1980's (before Milosevic ever even came to power).

http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/benworks/1980news.html

Th events of 1999 did not just sprout up over night, they were part of a 40 year plan.

J

pre 8 godina

NATO is the instrument, the US and its western allies ignited the Yugoslavian revolution. Nobody wanted to tackle the fact that Serbian civilians wanted to remain within a federated Yugoslavia.

-- Jugoslavia, why would the wishes of the Serb people to remain within Jugoslavia be more important and outplace the wishes of all the other ethnicities not to remain in Jugoslavia?


You seem to forget the forced exodus of Serbian civilians from Kosovo Polje accelerating in the 1970's and 1980's and completely ignored by the Albanian and Federal Communist leaderships.

--Forced by whom? The Serbs in Kosova were in charge of police, army, finance, and just about every vital field of life in Kosova. Or could it simply be because the average Serbs were feeling the same economic pressures as Albanians were feeling. And while the Serbs of Kosova had Serbia to migrate to, the Albanians' best choice were countries like Germany or Switzerland. There was mass migration of Kosova Albanians in the 70's and 80's going on as well. Serbs convinietly forget this.

icj1

pre 8 godina

Somehow imaginary Communist provincial borders drawn up by Milovan Djilas after WWII became international borders and countries.

You seem to forget the forced exodus of Serbian civilians from Kosovo Polje accelerating in the 1970's and 1980's and completely ignored by the Albanian and Federal Communist leaderships.
(Jugoslavija, 18 February 2016 18:10)

That's why Serbia should have not been greedy about creating a Serbian empire under the disguise of Yugoslavia after WWI.

If Serbia had instead stayed on its own, it would not have suffered all those injustices (whether real or imaginary) that you described. Unfortunately, Serbia shoot itself on the foot with its greed and dreams of grandeur.

J

pre 8 godina

The Serb exodus out of Kosovo was partially economic, but the much greater part was a coordinated effort to force them out by the province's ethnic majority.

Click below to read American Newspapers of the 1980's (before Milosevic ever even came to power).

[link]

Th events of 1999 did not just sprout up over night, they were part of a 40 year plan.
(factman, 20 February 2016 04:55)

Two things:

1. Serbia and the Serb government had the monopoly on propaganda until the late 1990's. It had better relations with the West than Albania up to that point, hence that side of the story was always the loudest. Albanians could not count on getting heard, especially with the animosity the likes of Hoxha and Alia had towards the West for 45 years. So of course you would hear the Serbian version of the story.

2. Serbia, starting in the late 1800's early 1900's, engadged in ethnic cleansing, with deals made with the Ottomans, and through such things as The Land Reforms which were nothing but coolisation programs. Not to mention actual detailed plans by Serb government officials ,Cubrilovic and later Seselj, on the expulsion of Albanians from Kosova.Couple this with the installment of a Serb apartheid in Kosova and much lower economic development and what you have is a Serb population that would have to watch their backs because the resentment was huge. Why do that when you could make more money in Serbia and live better?