Rehabilitation of WW2-era PM insult to victims - minister

What infuriates me is when anti-Serb bigots try to use Nedic as some sort of proof that Serbs were on the side of the collaborators during the war as if there were no Jewish collaborators. It's a very sick insinuation because over a million Serbs died in a few short years during WWII fighting the Nazi occupier. No nation in the region suffered more at the hands of the Germans than the Serbs did, but more importantly, Serbs were the only nation in the region to organize not one, but two anti-fascist resistance groups.

So yes, after Belgrade was bombed to its knees and Nazi Germany directly militarily occupied central Serbia, they appointed Nedic to be their puppet. Nedic was a hero in WWI and there is talk that he saved thousands of Serbs and Jews from sure slaughter. I will let God judge him for that.

But he was a collaborator, and for that he doesn't deserve to be rehabilitated. Not like Chetnik General Draza Mihailovich who was the leader of Europe's first anti-fascist guerrilla army. He 100% deserved his rehabilitation last year because General Draza was never once a collaborator even for a second.

Forget Milan Nedic.... Forget him forever...

Do you know in America there is not any war monuments in country towns which recognises the sacrifice Americans made during World War One... The reason is because that America was brought into a European war based on lies... America swore after WWI that they would never go to war for the Europeans again, they were humiliated...

So who is behind this humiliating Nedic rehabilitation... Who are these scoundrels who wish to remember Nedic....? It is the germany, yes my friends, who else would want to rehabilitate a Nazi puppet...!

Look what has happened in Ukraine, the statues of Stalin were pulled down, who supported this? The Germans... Germnay is back, bigger and better than before and they are pulling down statues around Europe which are humiliating them and they are erecting and rehabilitating the leaders which helped hitler in WWII...

Nedic is a traitor... We do not honour traitors and anyone in Serbia which supports Nedic is also a traitor. We must not allow A rehabilitation of Nedic, it is a humiliation, he is Hitlers puppet, a German puppet...

We should remember the people who fought against Hitler, not with him... Germany should have statues of Stalin, Churchill and Roosevelt in Berlin to remind the Germans of their Nazi history so that they do not repeat their same mistakes...

Nedic is dead, let him stay like that...

Nedic should be rehabilitated as a Croat.

The Chetniks were an anti-fascist resistance blah blah, never collaborated blah blah
(Ari Gold, 8 February 2016 16:59)
As much as we love your new stuff, its always nice to hear the classics. The Chetniks were neither anti-fascist nor much of a resistance. They were aiming to replace German facsism with the Serbian variety - a Yugoslavia/Greater Serbia built on Serb hegemony. The grand Chetnik strategy of sitting tight, shooting the odd shot here and there and hoping the Allies will come to their rescue hardly quialifies as 'resistance'. Although they may have initially hoped they could fight off the Nazis, they were more preoccupied with their monopoly on power in what would be post-war Yugoslavia. When the Partizans (thats the actual resistance) threatened this position, the Chetniks were more than happy to run to the Germans for help (after one whole year of supposed 'resistance'). Funny that they are the only side in WWII which actually switched from the Allies to the Axis. And then when the Germans' days were numbered, the Chetniks switched yet again to the allies - pretending as though they were on the right side the whole time while convinitently forgetting their collaboration with the Germans, Italians and NDH and the countless massacres and other crimes committed.

Its a hard fact for you to accept, but the Chetniks were nothing more than criminal opportunists looking out for their own interests, ready to kiss the ass of any side they thought had the upper hand.

Ustashism is part of Croatian national identity now and we have to live with it until we can improve it.
(rote, 9 February 2016 09:01)

And selective amnesia, denial and historical revisionism are part of the Russian and Serbian national identity

OK you’re right I didn’t even looked through the article because rehabilitation of the WW2 criminals automatically associated with the Croats in my mind. Yet you have nothing to write home about because in general I am right. Of course there were some exclusions among the Croats and not all of them were ustashists. And such exclusions were among the Serbs the Russians because not all of us were anti-fascists. But those were exclusions anyways and ustashism remains an important attribute of the Croat national dress code.
(rote, 9 February 2016 11:27)

In the region only Serbs have rehabilitated a Nazi collaborator, so Im not sure why you were confused. The only thing you are right about is that there were exceptions/exclusions amongst the various sides - however thats where you being correct ends. The bulk of Croats dont care about the Ustashe or hold them in any high regard (not including diaspora in this, thats a whole other issue). The problem is that these people dont do enough to confront and deal with the few vocal idiots who still think its 1941. The same applies to Russians and Serbs alike.

(rote, 9 February 2016 12:49)

Every country had their Nazi collaborators and WWII history contains a lot of gray which is seldom taught in history classes. But the idea that Serbs (or any other nation) were the exception to this is utter nonsense. At the end of the day, personal survival or gain usually takes over any notion of national idea or ideology.

I am not calling Serbs or any other ethnic group idiots. Rather, those people who attempt to justify any extreme, criminal and irrelevant ideology for whatever reason, or re-invent/re-interpret/glorify it as something that it isnt or never was.

RE: Milan Nedic

Nobody wanted the job after the Nazi's rolled into Yugoslavia, the other choice was to allow the Nazi Croat Ustase to rule over Serbia and spread the genocide into Serbia. Milan Nedic never ran the Batjanica camp, it was run by the SS and the Nazi' unlike Jasenovac which was run by the Croatian Ustase.

The Communists without trial or recourse murdered Nedic and threw him over a building, purportedly Rankovic.

(Ari Gold, 9 February 2016 23:13)

You want a solid time frame? From late 1941 until 1945, hows that? Within this period the Chetniks participiated in the attack of Uzice, several of the anti-partizan offensives, as well as activly collaborating with German, Italian and NDH units to combat the Partizans - all this inbetween carrying out raids and massacres on the civilian population throughout various villages. You mention one battle, the rescue of US airmen for bounty and weapons, plus the alleged liberation of a handful of villages throughout 1941-1945. That much in four years? Given their reluctance to engage the Axis forces and being more preocuppied with dealing with the Partizans and revenge attacks against Croats and Muslims, please explain how and in which time frame the Chetniks qualified as a resistance movement?

Also, please point out at which point I equated the Ustashe and the Chetniks, or showed any sympathy to the former? The fact of the matter is that the Allies choose the Partizans since they were actually resisting the Germans, unlike the Chetniks. No amount of hisotrical revisionism (Partizans being 90 % Serbs, the West giving into Stalin's demands), selective amnesia and denial (nothing to be ashamed of) will change the truth. But feel free to believe your own version of the truth.

The same Serbs who rehabilitated Draza Mihailovic are complaining. Not surprised. AGAIN.

(rote, 9 February 2016 16:06)

I suggest you stop being delusional. So during the Nazi occupation of Europe, there were no resistance movements anywhere except that in Yugoslavia? That after a country has had its military and main tool of resisting an invasion defeated, it becomes a collaborator by default? I guess that applies to Western Russia also? Also, since the Partizans were a multi-ethnic army, what magical second Serbian army are you referring to?

I dont consider the Ustasha heroes in any way (dont even know how you came to that conclusion from my previous posts, not important). But you are right in that I dont consider the Chetniks (who were self-serving, murderous sellouts) or the Soviet communists (who were more than happy to divide Eastern Europe with Hitler until he pulled a fast one on you - theres that selective amnesia again) heroes either.

Your boss Vucic agrees to it and so do you. You called one of your Kosovo war criminals 'a hero', Vulin. Nedic on the other hand just tried to save what was left of Serbia. Didn't he save life of Albright family by letting them in to Belgrade. Serbs are right in away that communist painted every nationalist person, not judt serbs, as a fascist.

What infuriates me is when anti-Serb bigots try to use Nedic as some sort of proof that Serbs were on the side of the collaborators during the war

So yes, after Belgrade was bombed to its knees and Nazi Germany directly militarily occupied central Serbia, they appointed Nedic to be their puppet.
(Ari Gold, 8 February 2016 16:59)

Well, these so-called "anti-Semitism bigots" are just using the logic of the most patriotic of Serbs according to whom a puppet government in Albania declaring war to the US is proof that Albanians were on the side of collaborators during the work.

So, are you saying that logic of the most patriotic of Serbs infuriates you? I could see your point :)

Stuck living in the past dwelling on things that cannot be changed. This is a curse that never ends in the Balkans. The bigger question should be, if this man is rehabilitated, how will this improve the quality of life in Serbia. Will it bring prosperity to all people? If not, stop wasting time on such nonsense and focus on how to actually improve the country.

Croat? He was one of yours trying to maintain the greater serbian empire that pig farmer Karajordjevic build.
(titomaster, 8 February 2016 16:21)

A bit hard to believe in the Greater Serbian empire, when it not only didn't exist, but was carved up with parts given to Nazi-allied Greater Hungary, Greater Croatia, and Great Albania. The only people who give Nedic more credibility than he ever had are Croatian and Albanians desperate to put Serbia in a bad light during the Second World War.

(Ari Gold, 9 February 2016 16:52)

The Chetniks may have begun with the best intentions of resisting the Axis, but that quickly deteriorated when they became preoccupied with destroying the Partizans rather than the Germans. Chetnik units began collaborating from 1941 when they participated in the Axis attack on Uzice. Draza wasnt stupid enough to publicly mention any hint of working with the Axis forces, yet collaborating Chetnik units received orders from him, while Draza gave free reign to his commanders to negotiate and collaborate with the Axis forces. You list one example of a battle against the Germans - can you name any more? You have conveniently ignored the countless more in which Chetnik units collaborated with the Axis.

The US and French may have initially seen the Chetniks as an allied force. But the US Office of Strategic Services eventually considered them in the same category as Nedic and Axis forces occupying Serbia - what happened there? Likewise the British eventually realised that 'resistance' actually means resisting the enemy, not collaborating. De Gaulle and a few US airmen may have been blind to the reality, fortunately the remaining allies weren't.

(Jugoslavija, 11 February 2016 17:32)

Draza may have remained behind, yet thousands of Chetniks fled the country, I wonder why? Besides, Draza was hiding internally - how is this any better than someone who flees and hides outside the country? He didnt choose to defend himself, there was no option after he was caught. And its not as though he was planning on turning himself in anytime soon.

For some reason everyone loves to switch the topic to the Ustashe, even though they were never mentioned nor were they the topic of conversation. Regardless, I agree with your thoughts/opinions on Pavelic and the Ustashe completely. Id argue that one of the Party of Rights/Stranka Prava offshoots would be more likely to attempt to bring back his body. But seeing as they have no seats in parliament and are essentially powerless and non-influential, it remains wishful thinking on your part.

(Jugoslavija, 12 February 2016 14:56)

There is a difference between being a Nazi sympathiser and collaborating - dont mix the two. I never claimed Draza was a Nazi sympathiser, but there is plenty of circumstantial evidence which does prove Draza was at the very least complicit in collaborating with the Nazis. At least there was enough to convince the Allies. Do you really think the Draza knew nothing about the Chetnik units fighting along side the Axis, or that he never took advantage of working with the Axis forces to attack Partisan positions?

De Gaulle may have offered him refuge (probably due to the fact he was also a hardcore anti-communist), yet he refused and remained in hiding in Serbia. Again, what difference is there if he hides within or outside the country?

Croat? He was one of yours trying to maintain the greater serbian empire that pig farmer Karajordjevic build.

Novakovic, what about Draza, your buddy Seselj certain agrees that all greater serbian fascist were victims of commie terror.

A majority of Serbs hope that Nazi Milan Nedic is rehabilitated. Instead of fighting the Nazi's, Nedic embraced them and even proclaimed that Serbia should be Jew free and Beograd needs to purge anything Jewish. Not only have the Serbs disgraced themselves during the wars in Croatia, BiH and Kosovo due to genocidal acts but also during WW2 where many Serbs like the Nedic's forces and Chetniks all collaborated with the SS/Nazi's. if anyone thinks the Chetniks weren't in bed with Adolf then they don't know anything about history. Saving a couple of Yanks near the end of war when you know you have lost the war doesn't erase the Chetnik massacre of Partizans.

factman,
Your FDR analogy is off the mark - I dont recall the Americans ever fighting along side the Nazis. Opportunist? Maybe - the Americans did have to fight off the Japanese also. Collaborator? No.

You make some good points about the Chetnik/chetnink (I'll use your annotation here) structure and organisation. Im not disputing that there may have been units operating independently of Draza's command and fighting their own private wars. And you are spot on about the canards. But are you seriously telling me that:
1. Draza had no idea about these units working with the Germans
2. All Chetnik/chetnik units which collaborated with the Germans were independent of Draza's command and didnt consider him their supreme commander
3. That Draza was completly against the idea of fighting along side the Germans if it meant destroying Partizans?

I did a quick look at Wikipedia,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan_Nedi%C4%87#Occupied_Serbia

and it seems as though Nedic's role in the Nazi occupation is not as clearly traitorous as Quisling. Unlike Quisling, Nedic was not a Nazi and this should clearly distinguish the parts that leaders played under Nazi occupation. Also, Quisling literally turned the nation of Norway over to the Nazis. If not for Quisling, Norway could have held out against the Nazis. Nedic in no way facilitated the Nazi invasion of Yugoslavia.

Just on a casual reading of the subject, I would have to say that Tito did more damage to the Serbian people than Nedic ever did even though the Nazis and their cousins the Croats murdered more Serbs than the communists did.

Ustashism is part of Croatian national identity now and we have to live with it until we can improve it.

titobroz : I am probably overestimating croatian efficiency, but Belgrade at the hands of Ustasha in 1941 would have been real bad.


I can help you with the formula : 9 out of 10 Croats were on Hitler’s side while 9 out of 10 Serbs/Montenegrins were against Hitler. As simple as that !

What infuriates me is when anti-Serb bigots try to use Nedic as some sort of proof that Serbs were on the side of the collaborators during the war

So yes, after Belgrade was bombed to its knees and Nazi Germany directly militarily occupied central Serbia, they appointed Nedic to be their puppet.
(Ari Gold, 8 February 2016 16:59)

Well, these so-called "anti-Serb bigots" are just using the logic of the most patriotic of Serbs according to whom a puppet government in Albania declaring war to the US is proof that Albanians were on the side of collaborators during the work.

So, are you saying that logic of the most patriotic of Serbs infuriates you? I could see your point :)
(icj1, 8 February 2016 20:56)

Albania was not forced to invade Greece, they gladly joined the Italians
(Jugoslavija, 9 February 2016 00:14)

Well, by the same logic, Serbia was not forced to collaborate with the Nazis, but they gladly collaborated with then :)

If a nation is to be held responsible for the actions of a puppet government, that's OK but it applies to Serbia, Albania and everybody else.

Jugoslavia, you got nothing. When a puppet Serb government exterminated its Jews its not collaboration. When a puppet Albanian government protects its Jews, its collaboration.

Rote Kapela you should not comment about things that you have no clue about. It only makes you look like a total tps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Kh7nLplWo ignoramus.

Aaa
Lenard
And the kind


OK you’re right I didn’t even looked through the article because rehabilitation of the WW2 criminals automatically associated with the Croats in my mind. Yet you have nothing to write home about because in general I am right. Of course there were some exclusions among the Croats and not all of them were ustashists. And such exclusions were among the Serbs the Russians because not all of us were anti-fascists. But those were exclusions anyways and ustashism remains an important attribute of the Croat national dress code.

aaa : The problem is that these people dont do enough to confront and deal with the few vocal idiots who still think its 1941. The same applies to Russians and Serbs alike.

Why idiots ? Yes times has changed but when Serbs were demonized for two decades now they have to react somehow. When their national heroes and national ideas are mudded they also have to react. When Croats blame them of fascist they understand that something went wrong in this world and they have to defend somehow. Don’t forget that 90% of the Europeans were on Hitler’s side. In my country together with the Germans 17 more countries sent their national troops. Not only the Croats but you will be surprised even “neutral” Spain sent it’s Blue Division and so did Holland, France and many others who now expose themselves as Hitler’s enemies. 99% of the French fought there and only 1% with De Gaulle … So Serbs are so sensitive. They do remember that no other people made the fight their national idea. Have you ever heard about 500 000 of Poles within Wermaht ? Of course not but 62 000 of them met the V-Day as prisoners of war in USSR … So those HOW I WON THE WAR STORIES were written after the war and Serbs remember it. And it brakes their hearts. So they are not idiots.

@J

Facts cloud your BS, Albania declared war on the US and the Allies, Serbia did not.


-- Jugoslavia so if a puppet government declares war on the USA but its population saves its Jews then the country is a collaborations country. However if a country exterminated its Jews but it doesn't declare war on the US then it is not a collaborationist country? Good to know you care more about declarations and image then human lives and destruction of families. As long as Serbia appears to have a good image, who cares how many Jews Serbia and Serbs help exterminate, right? I mean thousands of Jews were killed as a result of Serb actions and its total lack of protection towards the Jews but who cares, as long as there was no declaration. You are so humane.

Well, these so-called "anti-Semitism bigots" are just using the logic of the most patriotic of Serbs according to whom a puppet government in Albania declaring war to the US is proof that Albanians were on the side of collaborators during the work.

So, are you saying that logic of the most patriotic of Serbs infuriates you? I could see your point :)
(icj1, 8 February 2016 20:56)

Albanian King Zog escaped to Greece but it was Albanian extremists who created a coup ed etat along with the Italians. Albania was not forced to invade Greece, they gladly joined the Italians and were decimated until Nazi Germany sent troops to Greece. Did Serbia declare was on the US! No, but Albanian certainly did along with Croatia and was part of the Nazi Axis along with Romania and Bulgaria s well. Only near the end of the war with Tito's help, Albanian Communists started to gain force in Albania seeing that all was lost with Nazi Germany.

aaa : Serbs (or any other nation) were the exception to this is utter nonsense.

Don’t be cynic ! We all know that the two Serbian armies were the only real force to resist the Nazi on the continent. The Brits defended their African colonies and there were no other people who resisted the Nazi in Europe and it lasted for long 3 years as you know. Only in late 1944 Europeans started to join the Soviets while Serbs had started their personal war against the Germans two months earlier than the Soviets did. All postwar fairy tales cost very little because Serbia suffered second big combat losses in WW2 after the USSR – some 300 000 ! Third came the Brits with 220 000 losses. America was something special as it conducted two parallel wars major of their 360 000 losses they suffered from Japan that wasn’t a participant to WW2. So Serbian combat losses in WW2 remain second big whatever you say. And the only thing they ask for is not to mud their glory with the disgrace of the rest of the continent which sucked on their knees or stood in a dog’s position for all those 5-6 years that Germans enjoyed themselves. And the Croats were the only Slavs Hitler granted future. Why so many Croatian graves can be found in Russia and how many people had they killed on their way to Stalingrad? So what we are talking about? What exceptions can we discuss before we have consensus over the big issues? For you the Ustashas must be heroes but for me those were the Chetniks and the Communists.

Its a hard fact for you to accept, but the Chetniks were nothing more than criminal opportunists looking out for their own interests, ready to kiss the ass of any side they thought had the upper hand.
(aaa, 9 February 2016 09:57)

Nonsense. If you look at American military archives in Washington DC, you will see that the Americans who were in the Balkans during WWII regarded Draza Mihailovich and the Chetniks as a force of good fighting for freedom from the occupation. After General Draza was murdered by the communists, he was posthumously decorated for his sacrifice to the resistance.

Charles De Gaulle was the leader of France's resistance, after he became head of state in France he pleaded with Mihailovich to seek refuge in Paris to avoid sure slaughter. After his murder France cut all diplomatic ties with communist Yugoslavia. Fact is, none of these things would have happened if Draza was just another collaborator.

The Chetniks never once collaborated with the Germans and there were over 500 US airmen who Draza kept safe from Germans for 6 months wanted to travel to Yugoslavia to testify to that fact, but were not allowed. That rescue mission happened in 1945 and the first Serbian city to be liberated from Nazi scum was Loznica which was liberated by the Chetniks in 1943. Can you explain what solid years were the collaboration years because I have documented proof this is not the case from beginning of the war to end.

The fact is that man saved Serbs. Hitler was still angry about removal of Prince Paul and would have left serbs to Independent State of Croatia, Horthy wasn't interested in anything but Vojvodina. Serbs obviously gain time because of this guy to form proper resistance in both chetniks and the partisans. I am probably overestimating croatian efficiency, but Belgrade at the hands of Ustasha in 1941 would have been real bad.

(aaa, 9 February 2016 17:59) # Comment link

No sorry, I asked for a solid time frame as to when Draza and the Chetniks collaborated. 1941 Draza had a bounty on his head by the Nazis valued at $100,000. In 1943, the Chetniks liberated Loznica followed by over 35 different cities across Serbia and Bosnia. During the end of the war, he saved over 500 US airmen. Fact is, he was never once a collaborator and the Allied Powers wanted to back him. But Serbs were deeply divided and Stalin made the backing of Tito his precondition for further cooperation and so the West had to give in. And the Partizan army was barely multi ethnic. Over 90% Serbs, same with the Chetniks. Although there were several thousand Muslim Chetniks as well. Still, Serbs made up the overwhelming majority of two anti-fascist groups. Probably why the Prime Minister of Israel said that Serbia is one of the rare nations in Europe not to have anything to be ashamed about when it comes to WWII. And I'd trust him over an Ustasha sympathizer who understandably wants to equalize the Chetniks and Ustasha, but nothing doing.

In a civil war with three sides, it is an intelligent tactic to let the other two sides kill themselves into weakness (Communists and Nazis)

This was one of Draza's tactics. Smart guy? Yes. Collaborator? No.

This was exactly FDR's tactic against Hitler. Let the Germans and the Russians kill each other and then jump into the fray.

Are you gonna say that FDR was a collaborator/ opportunist?

Hogwash.

Did some Chetniks collaborate?

Sure. This was a World War. A lot of sh*t happened.

** But lets put that into perspective **

You see, Chetnik is a term for a real Army and command structure (Draza's men). This is written with a upper case "C"

But the Chetniks were hastily put together and did not have the leisure nor funds to create training systems or a command structure across such a large territory.

So a movement cropped up bc the Chetniks could not be everywhere across the whole of Yugoslavia to defend They were not great in number.

So, many people who became "chetniks" were simple people who left home, put a hat on, and called themselves "chetniks." This is written with a lower case "c"

They were not trained, nor disciplined. They operated independently. Not under Draza's command.

The comments below are so old now (nothing new). They were devised by Tito's Communists to justify the execution and to eliminate any threat to their command.

When the old canards are resurrected by people today it means that the are no better than communists.

They resurrect these canards because their own sides have much to atone for.

I mean thousands of Jews were killed as a result of Serb actions and its total lack of protection towards the Jews but who cares, as long as there was no declaration. You are so humane.
(J, 12 February 2016 18:26)

Total fabrication, Nedic was not in command of the concentration camps, the German SS was in total command including mass reprisals against Serb civilians for every German shot. You got the audacity to talk about humanity when over 750,000 thousand Serbs, Jews and Yugoslav civilians were slaughtered all across Yugoslavia primarily by the Ustase and Nazi's.

... and here are some more links that counter the historical revisionists.

Apparently, the battle against historical revisionism will never end. Sigh.

And.... Neither were the Serbian people collaborators.

You want to know who was a collaborator? Do you?

Look and see which cities were spared from bombing. Those people collaborated.

You want to know who resisted? Do you?

Look and see who's cities were bombed. Serbia was bombed into devastation. Utter devastation.

Is some revisionist here going to argue against that logic/ fact? Someone here going to refute it?

Insidious little revisionists.

Pres Reagan
http://www.teslasociety.com/pictures/500/reaganletter.jpg

Pres Nixon
http://www.teslasociety.com/pictures/500/nixon.jpg

Real Hero Comics
http://serbianna.com/blogs/savich/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/realheroes1.jpg

Real Life Comics
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-f4GX0IDEEv4/Tbil9C3BEGI/AAAAAAAACIU/d7hWIQLWR5s/s400/Real+Life+Comic+Book+Cover.jpg

Life Mag
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5yC7rBE51K0/SyOzKfpMcYI/AAAAAAAAAv8/2wCCer-afNo/s400/Life+Pages+32+and+33+July+15,+1946.jpg

Hollywood
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5yC7rBE51K0/R9MSyU0aZVI/AAAAAAAAACM/QZbvEKEBP3g/s320/2--chetniksposter.jpg

Here are links for the revisionists below.

The Chetniks were the 1st organized resistance in Europe

Pres Truman gave Mihailovich the Legion of Merit (highest award given to a foreign national) upon recommendation of Gen Dwight Eisenhower, Supreme Commander of the American Allied Forces (and future American Pres)

FAct: Many Chetniks came to American post war, and not one was ever deported. Not one. Yet many Croatians, Germans and Austrians were.

Draza was offered to be airlifted out by Eisenhower, he refused bche was a Patriot.

Pres Truman Medal
http://kingdom-of-yugoslavia-in-ww2.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/0032-Trumanov-orden-Drazi2.jpg

Cover - Newsweek
http://www.royalfamily.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/005-Cetnici-na-naslovnoj-strani-Njuzvika2-776x1024.jpg

Cover - Time
http://1389blog.com/pix/Draza-Time-Magazine.jpg

Liberty Mag
http://www.teslasociety.com/pictures/500/500_2_3.JPG

Liberty Mag #2
http://babamim.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/DSCN059715675450_stdJPG.295184319_std.jpeg

Sunday Daily News
http://serbianna.com/blogs/savich/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/241308_209590nazidodger.jpg

@icj1

I am going to explain this S-L-O-W-L-Y so you understand. Albania fully collaborated with Italy and Nazi Germany even sending troops to fight for the third reich. So did Horthy of Hungary,Antonescu of Romania and Pavelic of Croatia among many other European countries. All these Countries including Nazi Albania were part if the axis of evil . Serbia Never declared war on the US or it's allies! Serbia never sent or had the power to send troops anywhere. Serbia was occupied.

Its a hard fact for you to accept, but the Chetniks were nothing more than criminal opportunists looking out for their own interests, ready to kiss the ass of any side they thought had the upper hand.
(aaa, 9 February 2016 09:57)

Rubbish! If Draza Mihailovic was a criminal, he would have done what Pavelic and the other's did and escape the Country. Instead he chose to defend himself in a Communist show trial and accept his fate.

Ante Pavelic died like the true coward he is from an assassins bullet in Argentina to his deathbed in Spain. The Croatian USTASE pillaged and stole Gold from the state and it's 750,000 thousand Serb ,Jewish and other Yugoslav victims and like rats escaped justice. The current right wing HDZ government in Croatia may even bury this criminal in Croatia.

@J

Facts cloud your BS, Albania declared war on the US and the Allies, Serbia did not.

@aaa

I would disagree with you on Mihailovich, no documents or proof linking him to German collaboration was ever found. David Martin published a book called patriot or traitor based on court transcripts . If Mihailovic is a Nazi sympathizer, so is King Peter II, Yugoslav government in exile which included Croatian representatives and Winston Churchill himself who appointed Mihailovic General of what remained of the Yugoslav army. That would also include Harry Truman, the US president who awarded him the legion of merit .


Yes, there were so called Chetniks who collaborated with the Germans, Llotic comes to mind. As for Chetniks escaping, Tito was purging any and all opposition which included the Chetniks.

Mihailovic hiding!! Why would he turn himself in to Tito's Communists! As mentioned earlier, De Gaulle offered him refuge in France, he refused.

Croat? He was one of yours trying to maintain the greater serbian empire that pig farmer Karajordjevic build.

Novakovic, what about Draza, your buddy Seselj certain agrees that all greater serbian fascist were victims of commie terror.

(aaa, 9 February 2016 17:59) # Comment link

No sorry, I asked for a solid time frame as to when Draza and the Chetniks collaborated. 1941 Draza had a bounty on his head by the Nazis valued at $100,000. In 1943, the Chetniks liberated Loznica followed by over 35 different cities across Serbia and Bosnia. During the end of the war, he saved over 500 US airmen. Fact is, he was never once a collaborator and the Allied Powers wanted to back him. But Serbs were deeply divided and Stalin made the backing of Tito his precondition for further cooperation and so the West had to give in. And the Partizan army was barely multi ethnic. Over 90% Serbs, same with the Chetniks. Although there were several thousand Muslim Chetniks as well. Still, Serbs made up the overwhelming majority of two anti-fascist groups. Probably why the Prime Minister of Israel said that Serbia is one of the rare nations in Europe not to have anything to be ashamed about when it comes to WWII. And I'd trust him over an Ustasha sympathizer who understandably wants to equalize the Chetniks and Ustasha, but nothing doing.

Forget Milan Nedic.... Forget him forever...

Do you know in America there is not any war monuments in country towns which recognises the sacrifice Americans made during World War One... The reason is because that America was brought into a European war based on lies... America swore after WWI that they would never go to war for the Europeans again, they were humiliated...

So who is behind this humiliating Nedic rehabilitation... Who are these scoundrels who wish to remember Nedic....? It is the germany, yes my friends, who else would want to rehabilitate a Nazi puppet...!

Look what has happened in Ukraine, the statues of Stalin were pulled down, who supported this? The Germans... Germnay is back, bigger and better than before and they are pulling down statues around Europe which are humiliating them and they are erecting and rehabilitating the leaders which helped hitler in WWII...

Nedic is a traitor... We do not honour traitors and anyone in Serbia which supports Nedic is also a traitor. We must not allow A rehabilitation of Nedic, it is a humiliation, he is Hitlers puppet, a German puppet...

We should remember the people who fought against Hitler, not with him... Germany should have statues of Stalin, Churchill and Roosevelt in Berlin to remind the Germans of their Nazi history so that they do not repeat their same mistakes...

Nedic is dead, let him stay like that...

What infuriates me is when anti-Serb bigots try to use Nedic as some sort of proof that Serbs were on the side of the collaborators during the war as if there were no Jewish collaborators. It's a very sick insinuation because over a million Serbs died in a few short years during WWII fighting the Nazi occupier. No nation in the region suffered more at the hands of the Germans than the Serbs did, but more importantly, Serbs were the only nation in the region to organize not one, but two anti-fascist resistance groups.

So yes, after Belgrade was bombed to its knees and Nazi Germany directly militarily occupied central Serbia, they appointed Nedic to be their puppet. Nedic was a hero in WWI and there is talk that he saved thousands of Serbs and Jews from sure slaughter. I will let God judge him for that.

But he was a collaborator, and for that he doesn't deserve to be rehabilitated. Not like Chetnik General Draza Mihailovich who was the leader of Europe's first anti-fascist guerrilla army. He 100% deserved his rehabilitation last year because General Draza was never once a collaborator even for a second.

aaa : Serbs (or any other nation) were the exception to this is utter nonsense.

Don’t be cynic ! We all know that the two Serbian armies were the only real force to resist the Nazi on the continent. The Brits defended their African colonies and there were no other people who resisted the Nazi in Europe and it lasted for long 3 years as you know. Only in late 1944 Europeans started to join the Soviets while Serbs had started their personal war against the Germans two months earlier than the Soviets did. All postwar fairy tales cost very little because Serbia suffered second big combat losses in WW2 after the USSR – some 300 000 ! Third came the Brits with 220 000 losses. America was something special as it conducted two parallel wars major of their 360 000 losses they suffered from Japan that wasn’t a participant to WW2. So Serbian combat losses in WW2 remain second big whatever you say. And the only thing they ask for is not to mud their glory with the disgrace of the rest of the continent which sucked on their knees or stood in a dog’s position for all those 5-6 years that Germans enjoyed themselves. And the Croats were the only Slavs Hitler granted future. Why so many Croatian graves can be found in Russia and how many people had they killed on their way to Stalingrad? So what we are talking about? What exceptions can we discuss before we have consensus over the big issues? For you the Ustashas must be heroes but for me those were the Chetniks and the Communists.

Its a hard fact for you to accept, but the Chetniks were nothing more than criminal opportunists looking out for their own interests, ready to kiss the ass of any side they thought had the upper hand.
(aaa, 9 February 2016 09:57)

Nonsense. If you look at American military archives in Washington DC, you will see that the Americans who were in the Balkans during WWII regarded Draza Mihailovich and the Chetniks as a force of good fighting for freedom from the occupation. After General Draza was murdered by the communists, he was posthumously decorated for his sacrifice to the resistance.

Charles De Gaulle was the leader of France's resistance, after he became head of state in France he pleaded with Mihailovich to seek refuge in Paris to avoid sure slaughter. After his murder France cut all diplomatic ties with communist Yugoslavia. Fact is, none of these things would have happened if Draza was just another collaborator.

The Chetniks never once collaborated with the Germans and there were over 500 US airmen who Draza kept safe from Germans for 6 months wanted to travel to Yugoslavia to testify to that fact, but were not allowed. That rescue mission happened in 1945 and the first Serbian city to be liberated from Nazi scum was Loznica which was liberated by the Chetniks in 1943. Can you explain what solid years were the collaboration years because I have documented proof this is not the case from beginning of the war to end.

What infuriates me is when anti-Serb bigots try to use Nedic as some sort of proof that Serbs were on the side of the collaborators during the war

So yes, after Belgrade was bombed to its knees and Nazi Germany directly militarily occupied central Serbia, they appointed Nedic to be their puppet.
(Ari Gold, 8 February 2016 16:59)

Well, these so-called "anti-Semitism bigots" are just using the logic of the most patriotic of Serbs according to whom a puppet government in Albania declaring war to the US is proof that Albanians were on the side of collaborators during the work.

So, are you saying that logic of the most patriotic of Serbs infuriates you? I could see your point :)

Ustashism is part of Croatian national identity now and we have to live with it until we can improve it.

aaa : The problem is that these people dont do enough to confront and deal with the few vocal idiots who still think its 1941. The same applies to Russians and Serbs alike.

Why idiots ? Yes times has changed but when Serbs were demonized for two decades now they have to react somehow. When their national heroes and national ideas are mudded they also have to react. When Croats blame them of fascist they understand that something went wrong in this world and they have to defend somehow. Don’t forget that 90% of the Europeans were on Hitler’s side. In my country together with the Germans 17 more countries sent their national troops. Not only the Croats but you will be surprised even “neutral” Spain sent it’s Blue Division and so did Holland, France and many others who now expose themselves as Hitler’s enemies. 99% of the French fought there and only 1% with De Gaulle … So Serbs are so sensitive. They do remember that no other people made the fight their national idea. Have you ever heard about 500 000 of Poles within Wermaht ? Of course not but 62 000 of them met the V-Day as prisoners of war in USSR … So those HOW I WON THE WAR STORIES were written after the war and Serbs remember it. And it brakes their hearts. So they are not idiots.

Its a hard fact for you to accept, but the Chetniks were nothing more than criminal opportunists looking out for their own interests, ready to kiss the ass of any side they thought had the upper hand.
(aaa, 9 February 2016 09:57)

Rubbish! If Draza Mihailovic was a criminal, he would have done what Pavelic and the other's did and escape the Country. Instead he chose to defend himself in a Communist show trial and accept his fate.

Ante Pavelic died like the true coward he is from an assassins bullet in Argentina to his deathbed in Spain. The Croatian USTASE pillaged and stole Gold from the state and it's 750,000 thousand Serb ,Jewish and other Yugoslav victims and like rats escaped justice. The current right wing HDZ government in Croatia may even bury this criminal in Croatia.

Nedic should be rehabilitated as a Croat.

Croat? He was one of yours trying to maintain the greater serbian empire that pig farmer Karajordjevic build.
(titomaster, 8 February 2016 16:21)

A bit hard to believe in the Greater Serbian empire, when it not only didn't exist, but was carved up with parts given to Nazi-allied Greater Hungary, Greater Croatia, and Great Albania. The only people who give Nedic more credibility than he ever had are Croatian and Albanians desperate to put Serbia in a bad light during the Second World War.

In a civil war with three sides, it is an intelligent tactic to let the other two sides kill themselves into weakness (Communists and Nazis)

This was one of Draza's tactics. Smart guy? Yes. Collaborator? No.

This was exactly FDR's tactic against Hitler. Let the Germans and the Russians kill each other and then jump into the fray.

Are you gonna say that FDR was a collaborator/ opportunist?

Hogwash.

Did some Chetniks collaborate?

Sure. This was a World War. A lot of sh*t happened.

** But lets put that into perspective **

You see, Chetnik is a term for a real Army and command structure (Draza's men). This is written with a upper case "C"

But the Chetniks were hastily put together and did not have the leisure nor funds to create training systems or a command structure across such a large territory.

So a movement cropped up bc the Chetniks could not be everywhere across the whole of Yugoslavia to defend They were not great in number.

So, many people who became "chetniks" were simple people who left home, put a hat on, and called themselves "chetniks." This is written with a lower case "c"

They were not trained, nor disciplined. They operated independently. Not under Draza's command.

The comments below are so old now (nothing new). They were devised by Tito's Communists to justify the execution and to eliminate any threat to their command.

When the old canards are resurrected by people today it means that the are no better than communists.

They resurrect these canards because their own sides have much to atone for.

Aaa
Lenard
And the kind


OK you’re right I didn’t even looked through the article because rehabilitation of the WW2 criminals automatically associated with the Croats in my mind. Yet you have nothing to write home about because in general I am right. Of course there were some exclusions among the Croats and not all of them were ustashists. And such exclusions were among the Serbs the Russians because not all of us were anti-fascists. But those were exclusions anyways and ustashism remains an important attribute of the Croat national dress code.

titobroz : I am probably overestimating croatian efficiency, but Belgrade at the hands of Ustasha in 1941 would have been real bad.


I can help you with the formula : 9 out of 10 Croats were on Hitler’s side while 9 out of 10 Serbs/Montenegrins were against Hitler. As simple as that !

Here are links for the revisionists below.

The Chetniks were the 1st organized resistance in Europe

Pres Truman gave Mihailovich the Legion of Merit (highest award given to a foreign national) upon recommendation of Gen Dwight Eisenhower, Supreme Commander of the American Allied Forces (and future American Pres)

FAct: Many Chetniks came to American post war, and not one was ever deported. Not one. Yet many Croatians, Germans and Austrians were.

Draza was offered to be airlifted out by Eisenhower, he refused bche was a Patriot.

Pres Truman Medal
http://kingdom-of-yugoslavia-in-ww2.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/0032-Trumanov-orden-Drazi2.jpg

Cover - Newsweek
http://www.royalfamily.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/005-Cetnici-na-naslovnoj-strani-Njuzvika2-776x1024.jpg

Cover - Time
http://1389blog.com/pix/Draza-Time-Magazine.jpg

Liberty Mag
http://www.teslasociety.com/pictures/500/500_2_3.JPG

Liberty Mag #2
http://babamim.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/DSCN059715675450_stdJPG.295184319_std.jpeg

Sunday Daily News
http://serbianna.com/blogs/savich/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/241308_209590nazidodger.jpg

The Chetniks were an anti-fascist resistance blah blah, never collaborated blah blah
(Ari Gold, 8 February 2016 16:59)
As much as we love your new stuff, its always nice to hear the classics. The Chetniks were neither anti-fascist nor much of a resistance. They were aiming to replace German facsism with the Serbian variety - a Yugoslavia/Greater Serbia built on Serb hegemony. The grand Chetnik strategy of sitting tight, shooting the odd shot here and there and hoping the Allies will come to their rescue hardly quialifies as 'resistance'. Although they may have initially hoped they could fight off the Nazis, they were more preoccupied with their monopoly on power in what would be post-war Yugoslavia. When the Partizans (thats the actual resistance) threatened this position, the Chetniks were more than happy to run to the Germans for help (after one whole year of supposed 'resistance'). Funny that they are the only side in WWII which actually switched from the Allies to the Axis. And then when the Germans' days were numbered, the Chetniks switched yet again to the allies - pretending as though they were on the right side the whole time while convinitently forgetting their collaboration with the Germans, Italians and NDH and the countless massacres and other crimes committed.

Its a hard fact for you to accept, but the Chetniks were nothing more than criminal opportunists looking out for their own interests, ready to kiss the ass of any side they thought had the upper hand.

@J

Facts cloud your BS, Albania declared war on the US and the Allies, Serbia did not.

@aaa

I would disagree with you on Mihailovich, no documents or proof linking him to German collaboration was ever found. David Martin published a book called patriot or traitor based on court transcripts . If Mihailovic is a Nazi sympathizer, so is King Peter II, Yugoslav government in exile which included Croatian representatives and Winston Churchill himself who appointed Mihailovic General of what remained of the Yugoslav army. That would also include Harry Truman, the US president who awarded him the legion of merit .


Yes, there were so called Chetniks who collaborated with the Germans, Llotic comes to mind. As for Chetniks escaping, Tito was purging any and all opposition which included the Chetniks.

Mihailovic hiding!! Why would he turn himself in to Tito's Communists! As mentioned earlier, De Gaulle offered him refuge in France, he refused.

... and here are some more links that counter the historical revisionists.

Apparently, the battle against historical revisionism will never end. Sigh.

And.... Neither were the Serbian people collaborators.

You want to know who was a collaborator? Do you?

Look and see which cities were spared from bombing. Those people collaborated.

You want to know who resisted? Do you?

Look and see who's cities were bombed. Serbia was bombed into devastation. Utter devastation.

Is some revisionist here going to argue against that logic/ fact? Someone here going to refute it?

Insidious little revisionists.

Pres Reagan
http://www.teslasociety.com/pictures/500/reaganletter.jpg

Pres Nixon
http://www.teslasociety.com/pictures/500/nixon.jpg

Real Hero Comics
http://serbianna.com/blogs/savich/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/realheroes1.jpg

Real Life Comics
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-f4GX0IDEEv4/Tbil9C3BEGI/AAAAAAAACIU/d7hWIQLWR5s/s400/Real+Life+Comic+Book+Cover.jpg

Life Mag
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5yC7rBE51K0/SyOzKfpMcYI/AAAAAAAAAv8/2wCCer-afNo/s400/Life+Pages+32+and+33+July+15,+1946.jpg

Hollywood
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5yC7rBE51K0/R9MSyU0aZVI/AAAAAAAAACM/QZbvEKEBP3g/s320/2--chetniksposter.jpg

Your boss Vucic agrees to it and so do you. You called one of your Kosovo war criminals 'a hero', Vulin. Nedic on the other hand just tried to save what was left of Serbia. Didn't he save life of Albright family by letting them in to Belgrade. Serbs are right in away that communist painted every nationalist person, not judt serbs, as a fascist.

RE: Milan Nedic

Nobody wanted the job after the Nazi's rolled into Yugoslavia, the other choice was to allow the Nazi Croat Ustase to rule over Serbia and spread the genocide into Serbia. Milan Nedic never ran the Batjanica camp, it was run by the SS and the Nazi' unlike Jasenovac which was run by the Croatian Ustase.

The Communists without trial or recourse murdered Nedic and threw him over a building, purportedly Rankovic.

Well, these so-called "anti-Semitism bigots" are just using the logic of the most patriotic of Serbs according to whom a puppet government in Albania declaring war to the US is proof that Albanians were on the side of collaborators during the work.

So, are you saying that logic of the most patriotic of Serbs infuriates you? I could see your point :)
(icj1, 8 February 2016 20:56)

Albanian King Zog escaped to Greece but it was Albanian extremists who created a coup ed etat along with the Italians. Albania was not forced to invade Greece, they gladly joined the Italians and were decimated until Nazi Germany sent troops to Greece. Did Serbia declare was on the US! No, but Albanian certainly did along with Croatia and was part of the Nazi Axis along with Romania and Bulgaria s well. Only near the end of the war with Tito's help, Albanian Communists started to gain force in Albania seeing that all was lost with Nazi Germany.

A majority of Serbs hope that Nazi Milan Nedic is rehabilitated. Instead of fighting the Nazi's, Nedic embraced them and even proclaimed that Serbia should be Jew free and Beograd needs to purge anything Jewish. Not only have the Serbs disgraced themselves during the wars in Croatia, BiH and Kosovo due to genocidal acts but also during WW2 where many Serbs like the Nedic's forces and Chetniks all collaborated with the SS/Nazi's. if anyone thinks the Chetniks weren't in bed with Adolf then they don't know anything about history. Saving a couple of Yanks near the end of war when you know you have lost the war doesn't erase the Chetnik massacre of Partizans.

@icj1

I am going to explain this S-L-O-W-L-Y so you understand. Albania fully collaborated with Italy and Nazi Germany even sending troops to fight for the third reich. So did Horthy of Hungary,Antonescu of Romania and Pavelic of Croatia among many other European countries. All these Countries including Nazi Albania were part if the axis of evil . Serbia Never declared war on the US or it's allies! Serbia never sent or had the power to send troops anywhere. Serbia was occupied.

Ustashism is part of Croatian national identity now and we have to live with it until we can improve it.
(rote, 9 February 2016 09:01)

And selective amnesia, denial and historical revisionism are part of the Russian and Serbian national identity

I mean thousands of Jews were killed as a result of Serb actions and its total lack of protection towards the Jews but who cares, as long as there was no declaration. You are so humane.
(J, 12 February 2016 18:26)

Total fabrication, Nedic was not in command of the concentration camps, the German SS was in total command including mass reprisals against Serb civilians for every German shot. You got the audacity to talk about humanity when over 750,000 thousand Serbs, Jews and Yugoslav civilians were slaughtered all across Yugoslavia primarily by the Ustase and Nazi's.

Stuck living in the past dwelling on things that cannot be changed. This is a curse that never ends in the Balkans. The bigger question should be, if this man is rehabilitated, how will this improve the quality of life in Serbia. Will it bring prosperity to all people? If not, stop wasting time on such nonsense and focus on how to actually improve the country.

I did a quick look at Wikipedia,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan_Nedi%C4%87#Occupied_Serbia

and it seems as though Nedic's role in the Nazi occupation is not as clearly traitorous as Quisling. Unlike Quisling, Nedic was not a Nazi and this should clearly distinguish the parts that leaders played under Nazi occupation. Also, Quisling literally turned the nation of Norway over to the Nazis. If not for Quisling, Norway could have held out against the Nazis. Nedic in no way facilitated the Nazi invasion of Yugoslavia.

Just on a casual reading of the subject, I would have to say that Tito did more damage to the Serbian people than Nedic ever did even though the Nazis and their cousins the Croats murdered more Serbs than the communists did.

The same Serbs who rehabilitated Draza Mihailovic are complaining. Not surprised. AGAIN.

OK you’re right I didn’t even looked through the article because rehabilitation of the WW2 criminals automatically associated with the Croats in my mind. Yet you have nothing to write home about because in general I am right. Of course there were some exclusions among the Croats and not all of them were ustashists. And such exclusions were among the Serbs the Russians because not all of us were anti-fascists. But those were exclusions anyways and ustashism remains an important attribute of the Croat national dress code.
(rote, 9 February 2016 11:27)

In the region only Serbs have rehabilitated a Nazi collaborator, so Im not sure why you were confused. The only thing you are right about is that there were exceptions/exclusions amongst the various sides - however thats where you being correct ends. The bulk of Croats dont care about the Ustashe or hold them in any high regard (not including diaspora in this, thats a whole other issue). The problem is that these people dont do enough to confront and deal with the few vocal idiots who still think its 1941. The same applies to Russians and Serbs alike.

The fact is that man saved Serbs. Hitler was still angry about removal of Prince Paul and would have left serbs to Independent State of Croatia, Horthy wasn't interested in anything but Vojvodina. Serbs obviously gain time because of this guy to form proper resistance in both chetniks and the partisans. I am probably overestimating croatian efficiency, but Belgrade at the hands of Ustasha in 1941 would have been real bad.

Rote Kapela you should not comment about things that you have no clue about. It only makes you look like a total tps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Kh7nLplWo ignoramus.

(rote, 9 February 2016 12:49)

Every country had their Nazi collaborators and WWII history contains a lot of gray which is seldom taught in history classes. But the idea that Serbs (or any other nation) were the exception to this is utter nonsense. At the end of the day, personal survival or gain usually takes over any notion of national idea or ideology.

I am not calling Serbs or any other ethnic group idiots. Rather, those people who attempt to justify any extreme, criminal and irrelevant ideology for whatever reason, or re-invent/re-interpret/glorify it as something that it isnt or never was.

(rote, 9 February 2016 16:06)

I suggest you stop being delusional. So during the Nazi occupation of Europe, there were no resistance movements anywhere except that in Yugoslavia? That after a country has had its military and main tool of resisting an invasion defeated, it becomes a collaborator by default? I guess that applies to Western Russia also? Also, since the Partizans were a multi-ethnic army, what magical second Serbian army are you referring to?

I dont consider the Ustasha heroes in any way (dont even know how you came to that conclusion from my previous posts, not important). But you are right in that I dont consider the Chetniks (who were self-serving, murderous sellouts) or the Soviet communists (who were more than happy to divide Eastern Europe with Hitler until he pulled a fast one on you - theres that selective amnesia again) heroes either.

(Ari Gold, 9 February 2016 16:52)

The Chetniks may have begun with the best intentions of resisting the Axis, but that quickly deteriorated when they became preoccupied with destroying the Partizans rather than the Germans. Chetnik units began collaborating from 1941 when they participated in the Axis attack on Uzice. Draza wasnt stupid enough to publicly mention any hint of working with the Axis forces, yet collaborating Chetnik units received orders from him, while Draza gave free reign to his commanders to negotiate and collaborate with the Axis forces. You list one example of a battle against the Germans - can you name any more? You have conveniently ignored the countless more in which Chetnik units collaborated with the Axis.

The US and French may have initially seen the Chetniks as an allied force. But the US Office of Strategic Services eventually considered them in the same category as Nedic and Axis forces occupying Serbia - what happened there? Likewise the British eventually realised that 'resistance' actually means resisting the enemy, not collaborating. De Gaulle and a few US airmen may have been blind to the reality, fortunately the remaining allies weren't.

(Ari Gold, 9 February 2016 23:13)

You want a solid time frame? From late 1941 until 1945, hows that? Within this period the Chetniks participiated in the attack of Uzice, several of the anti-partizan offensives, as well as activly collaborating with German, Italian and NDH units to combat the Partizans - all this inbetween carrying out raids and massacres on the civilian population throughout various villages. You mention one battle, the rescue of US airmen for bounty and weapons, plus the alleged liberation of a handful of villages throughout 1941-1945. That much in four years? Given their reluctance to engage the Axis forces and being more preocuppied with dealing with the Partizans and revenge attacks against Croats and Muslims, please explain how and in which time frame the Chetniks qualified as a resistance movement?

Also, please point out at which point I equated the Ustashe and the Chetniks, or showed any sympathy to the former? The fact of the matter is that the Allies choose the Partizans since they were actually resisting the Germans, unlike the Chetniks. No amount of hisotrical revisionism (Partizans being 90 % Serbs, the West giving into Stalin's demands), selective amnesia and denial (nothing to be ashamed of) will change the truth. But feel free to believe your own version of the truth.

@J

Facts cloud your BS, Albania declared war on the US and the Allies, Serbia did not.


-- Jugoslavia so if a puppet government declares war on the USA but its population saves its Jews then the country is a collaborations country. However if a country exterminated its Jews but it doesn't declare war on the US then it is not a collaborationist country? Good to know you care more about declarations and image then human lives and destruction of families. As long as Serbia appears to have a good image, who cares how many Jews Serbia and Serbs help exterminate, right? I mean thousands of Jews were killed as a result of Serb actions and its total lack of protection towards the Jews but who cares, as long as there was no declaration. You are so humane.

(Jugoslavija, 12 February 2016 14:56)

There is a difference between being a Nazi sympathiser and collaborating - dont mix the two. I never claimed Draza was a Nazi sympathiser, but there is plenty of circumstantial evidence which does prove Draza was at the very least complicit in collaborating with the Nazis. At least there was enough to convince the Allies. Do you really think the Draza knew nothing about the Chetnik units fighting along side the Axis, or that he never took advantage of working with the Axis forces to attack Partisan positions?

De Gaulle may have offered him refuge (probably due to the fact he was also a hardcore anti-communist), yet he refused and remained in hiding in Serbia. Again, what difference is there if he hides within or outside the country?

What infuriates me is when anti-Serb bigots try to use Nedic as some sort of proof that Serbs were on the side of the collaborators during the war

So yes, after Belgrade was bombed to its knees and Nazi Germany directly militarily occupied central Serbia, they appointed Nedic to be their puppet.
(Ari Gold, 8 February 2016 16:59)

Well, these so-called "anti-Serb bigots" are just using the logic of the most patriotic of Serbs according to whom a puppet government in Albania declaring war to the US is proof that Albanians were on the side of collaborators during the work.

So, are you saying that logic of the most patriotic of Serbs infuriates you? I could see your point :)
(icj1, 8 February 2016 20:56)

Albania was not forced to invade Greece, they gladly joined the Italians
(Jugoslavija, 9 February 2016 00:14)

Well, by the same logic, Serbia was not forced to collaborate with the Nazis, but they gladly collaborated with then :)

If a nation is to be held responsible for the actions of a puppet government, that's OK but it applies to Serbia, Albania and everybody else.

(Jugoslavija, 11 February 2016 17:32)

Draza may have remained behind, yet thousands of Chetniks fled the country, I wonder why? Besides, Draza was hiding internally - how is this any better than someone who flees and hides outside the country? He didnt choose to defend himself, there was no option after he was caught. And its not as though he was planning on turning himself in anytime soon.

For some reason everyone loves to switch the topic to the Ustashe, even though they were never mentioned nor were they the topic of conversation. Regardless, I agree with your thoughts/opinions on Pavelic and the Ustashe completely. Id argue that one of the Party of Rights/Stranka Prava offshoots would be more likely to attempt to bring back his body. But seeing as they have no seats in parliament and are essentially powerless and non-influential, it remains wishful thinking on your part.

Jugoslavia, you got nothing. When a puppet Serb government exterminated its Jews its not collaboration. When a puppet Albanian government protects its Jews, its collaboration.

factman,
Your FDR analogy is off the mark - I dont recall the Americans ever fighting along side the Nazis. Opportunist? Maybe - the Americans did have to fight off the Japanese also. Collaborator? No.

You make some good points about the Chetnik/chetnink (I'll use your annotation here) structure and organisation. Im not disputing that there may have been units operating independently of Draza's command and fighting their own private wars. And you are spot on about the canards. But are you seriously telling me that:
1. Draza had no idea about these units working with the Germans
2. All Chetnik/chetnik units which collaborated with the Germans were independent of Draza's command and didnt consider him their supreme commander
3. That Draza was completly against the idea of fighting along side the Germans if it meant destroying Partizans?