28

Friday, 13.11.2015.

10:58

Belgrade "won't sit idle" awaiting Pristina's decision

Belgrade "does not accept Pristina's game," Serbian Government's Office for Kosovo and Metohija Director Marko Djuric has said.

Izvor: Tanjug

Belgrade "won't sit idle" awaiting Pristina's decision IMAGE SOURCE
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28 Komentari

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just wondering

pre 8 godina

Independence for California!
(L.A., 15 November 2015 07:37
Don't know why a Serb is campaigning for independence of California, which does not want independence itself, and any movement in todays time would not have the support of even a fraction of the people, but I think most of civilization has given up on Serbian logic by now.

too funny

pre 8 godina

I can just imagine the composition of this Constitutional Court in Pristina. Yesterday goat herding today a supreme court judge something like out of the Judge Roy Bean movie LOL.
(sj, 16 November 2015 08:20)
Could be right there is a Serb on the court, lol.

sj

pre 8 godina

What has been overlooked here is the importance of the Agreement to the west. The creation of Serb ZSO is only a very minor issue, but it’s a major issue for the Albanians since it looks like creating another Bosnia. Yes the west has given assurance to the little Albos that this will never happen but in the end they really don’t care because the crux of the matter is that this agreement opens the door for the sale of assets in Kosovo.
Yes, there will be toing and froing but there is an old saying never get between a bucket of money and a corporation. The EU forced the Albanians into accepting the conditions of the Agreement and they will do the same in implementing them.
I can just imagine the composition of this Constitutional Court in Pristina. Yesterday goat herding today a supreme court judge something like out of the Judge Roy Bean movie LOL.

WOW

pre 8 godina

Is there a stipulation in the agreement that states a ratification is required
by ANY entity ?!!!!
(Sam D, 13 November 2015 19:57)
Apparently there is a stipulation in the agreement that it will be submitted to the Constitutional court for review.
"2) On the basis of the First Agreement which recognises its distinct character, the Kosovo Government will adopt a decree directly applicable, which will be reviewed by the Constitutional Court."
And guess where you find that information, thats right, on the official Serbian website of
"© Office for Kosovo and Metohija, Government of the Republic of Serbia"
And who heads that office, right again, Duric, shall we from this day forward refer to him simply as "the slug"

Between this and Vucic declaring that UNESCO membership will NOT be discussed in Brussels after your government pleaded and pledged (before the whole world) that if they will not allow Kosovo membership now that it would be settled in the Brussels agreement talks.

Either a government of idiots or liars which do you choose.

icj1

pre 8 godina

You are, technically speaking that is, right that a bilateral international agreement only comes into force only once it is not just signed but also ratified.
(Crime.inc, 13 November 2015 14:59)

I'm glad you got it!

As for the rest of your post it can be ignored since it leads to the absurd conclusion that the international community has been doing everything wrong for decades by inventing and using this "monstrosity" called "ratification"!

icj1

pre 8 godina

Life could be so much easier for the Kosovo Albanians under resolution 1244...
(Nikola Novakovid, 13 November 2015 16:27)

I'm with you here. Without UNSCR 1244, Serbia's army and police would still be in Kosovo and Kosovo would have never been independent from Serbia. So, yes indeed, UNSCR 1244 made life much easier for Kosovo!

think again

pre 8 godina

So if Kosovo Albanians wants real autonomy as we promised in resolution 1244, then you will negotiate with us and you would stop using your fake and illegal constitution as an excuse to hold captive Serb municipalities in Kosovo...

Life could be so much easier for the Kosovo Albanians under resolution 1244... So much man hours has been invested into this fake state of Kosovo and it has not achieved anything, it is more dependent then it has ever been... If all that man hours were converted to actually thinking of some good policies to help the Kosovo Albanians under resolution 1244, life would be so much better, it really would be... Declaring independence was a waste of time and money, it has helped no one....
(Nikola Novakovid, 13 November 2015 16:27
That is a good one now Serbs wrote 1244, you have to love your spirit.
Do you even know what 1244 was or is? From your post apparently not.
It is a document now 16 years old that laid out a roadmap of how to make Kosovo a functioning entity without a preset determination of status.
It was also a document to prevent any further violence of Serbia against the people of Kosovo. It was never intended as a permanent document. Nor did it self determine its end.
You have joined a long list of Serbs who have decided to voice an opinion on UNSC Resolution 1244 without ever reading it.

think again

pre 8 godina

Nikolobubba,

Resolution 1244... Kosovo constitution is illegal...

Kosovo is not independent, it is dependent.... Dependent on the U.S., the EU and dependent on how Serbia reacts... If Serbia says NO, than its No, kosovo can't move, checkmate...


That seems to be a popular but clouded Serbian view. You say that the Kosovo constitution is illegal by Res 1244, but over half the countries in the world disagree. So your argument is moot, you have nothing to back it up.
One small narrow victory in a long list of set backs for Serbia and you run out on the field singing "We are the Champions" and claim that if Serbia says no Kosovo does not move.
Serbia said no to Kosovo in the Olympics,
in the World Bank,
in the International Monetary Fund,
in the many athletic organizations
with Kosovo signing agreements with the EU,
but one by one they are proving you wrong.

You won the UNESCO by 3 votes, not even a majority victory, but you were able to garner support of 1/3 of the voting countries, HUGE VICTORY.

Those dependent on Viagra are able to occasionally able to round the bases once and a while but that does not mean they have become the "Stud" of the world.

A little off base there

pre 8 godina

(Crime.inc, 13 November 2015 16:33)
Are you for real? You have very little interest in following the local politics of your own country but right on there with what is going on in Kosovo?
You speak of a us against them argument what do you think you are doing on this site?
My illustration to you was your trying to say that the parliament thing in Kosovo does not go on elsewhere, I admit that the teargas is one I haven't heard but a truly informed individual would realize that it is only one of many tactics governments use to block the other parties.
If you remember the recent international agreement on Iran, Russian parliament immediately ratified it without discussion(no surprise there) and the US congress was threatening to block it, if that would have happened it would have went to our Supreme Court which would be similar to the Kosovo Constitutional court.
But if your interests are in what is happening between Kosovo and Serbia it might be in your interest to actually follow what is going on in your local politics.

Don't just talk

pre 8 godina

Legal framework

1) The Association/Community of Serb majority municipalities in Kosovo is established as an association/ community of municipalities as foreseen by the First Agreement, the Law on ratification of the First Agreement and Kosovo law.

2) On the basis of the First Agreement which recognises its distinct character, the Kosovo Government will adopt a decree directly applicable, which will be reviewed by the Constitutional Court. The Community/Association will be a legal entity defined by its Statute, which will comprise at least the elements set out below.

3) The Statute will be adopted by a constituent assembly composed of the voted members of the assemblies of the participating municipalities.

READ POINT 2 and stop complaining: Djuric is don quixote

[http://www.kim.gov.rs/eng/pregovaracki-proces.php]

Avni

pre 8 godina

We're not interested what you say either. Every time he speaks he's saying the same thing. By the way he should be careful what he wishes for because we might do something he's isn't prepared for.

Nikola Novakovid

pre 8 godina

Resolution 1244... Kosovo constitution is illegal...

Kosovo is not independent, it is dependent.... Dependent on the U.S., the EU and dependent on how Serbia reacts... If Serbia says NO, than its No, kosovo can't move, checkmate...

So if Kosovo Albanians wants real autonomy as we promised in resolution 1244, then you will negotiate with us and you would stop using your fake and illegal constitution as an excuse to hold captive Serb municipalities in Kosovo...

Life could be so much easier for the Kosovo Albanians under resolution 1244... So much man hours has been invested into this fake state of Kosovo and it has not achieved anything, it is more dependent then it has ever been... If all that man hours were converted to actually thinking of some good policies to help the Kosovo Albanians under resolution 1244, life would be so much better, it really would be... Declaring independence was a waste of time and money, it has helped no one....

Jugoslavija

pre 8 godina

It is quite apparent that you do not watch TV or read news outside of Serbia to see how many parliaments throughout the world in the past two years have been disrupted due to fights and brawls etc between parties.
Of course you can say this in Serbia because the moment a member of an opposition party happens to become a threat to the power of the ruling SNS then suddenly an investigation into corruption is opened on that individual.
(A little off base there, 13 November 2015 15:16)

There is absolutely no room in any parliament for parties to be fighting, including throwing eggs which will only lead to more violence. The Ukranian parliament is a perfect example where the opposition party is continually threatened and party officials are beaten.

In Russia, Boris Yeltsin when so far as to bomb his own parliament or DUMA , a total disgrace to his nation.

Crime.inc

pre 8 godina

@ (A little off base there, 13 November 2015 15:16)
What is it that you are trying to say?

That because there are brawls in the parliaments of other countries (where people can not behave normally), this would somehow justify what happened in the parliament of Kosovo? Seriously, when does bad behavior in another place ever justify your own bad behavior?

Also, a brawl (generally the result of an overheated argument) is not quite the same as a deliberately planned action to disrupt the proper functioning of a parliament (whenever that so happens to suite your political objectives). The latter really is very much a direct attack on the lawful governing of a country and would in many countries even be considered to be official treason against the state. It sure as hell does share similarities with any militant movement, which will just use force against anyone who does not agree with them.

As for your assumption about me, I am a foreigner living in Serbia and I have very little interest in following the local political circus all that close. However, even if the Serbian government would be worse than that of Kosovo, that would still not justify the latter to misbehave. Or does it to you? Because if it does, then any rational discussion with you will be rather futile. In that case, to you it will just be about “us” versus “them” and there simply is no room for any intelligence in such an argument.

A little off base there

pre 8 godina

(Crime.inc, 13 November 2015 13:18)
It is quite apparent that you do not watch TV or read news outside of Serbia to see how many parliaments throughout the world in the past two years have been disrupted due to fights and brawls etc between parties.
Of course you can say this in Serbia because the moment a member of an opposition party happens to become a threat to the power of the ruling SNS then suddenly an investigation into corruption is opened on that individual.

Drymades

pre 8 godina

Pacta sunt servanda, functional illiterates....

Here is wiki:....entitles states to require that obligations be respected and to rely upon the obligations being respected. This good faith basis of treaties implies that a party to the treaty cannot invoke provisions of its municipal (domestic) law as justification for a failure to perform.

Basic principle of international law, jus cogens, compelling law...earned a BA at the famed University of Texas, icj1?

Crime.inc

pre 8 godina

@ (icj1, 13 November 2015 14:14)
You are, technically speaking that is, right that a bilateral international agreement only comes into force only once it is not just signed but also ratified. But that still is just the perspective from a national point of view. From an international point of view, a country that signs treaties but does not ratify them, is essentially the same as a country that has no power to make any such agreements.

So yes, you are right, in that this agreement will not come into force until Kosovo decides that it does (or more likely the US/EU, for they probably thought this whole strategy up a long time ago). But on the other hand, Kosovo has an obligation to ratify this agreement in order to remain a credible negotiation partner in international affairs. A country can screw up only so many times before there will be significant political and diplomatic consequences for those actions.

icj1

pre 8 godina

National courts (constitutional or not) could still decide that the conduct of a politician has been “illegal”, but that will only have jurisdiction in that country itself. Whatever bilateral agreement a country signs, still needs to be be implemented. If not, the power of that country to negotiate or sign any agreement with another countries simply just degrades to nothing more than agreements of intentions of the involved politicians. And that is not what international agreements are about.
(Crime.inc, 13 November 2015 13:33)

That's mostly correct, except for a small detail... "Whatever bilateral agreement a country signs AND RATIFIES, still needs to be be implemented"

A signed international agreement enters into force for a given country after that country has completed its internal process for its ratification or approval. In some cases the internal process may be just the signature from the president, in others could be approval by the Parliament, etc... etc, but it's up to the signing country to determine that process.

Crime.inc

pre 8 godina

@ (Amanaparts, 13 November 2015 13:02)
Your assessment of the separation of power is incomplete. Indeed there should be a separation between the courts and politics. Politicians should not be able to influence the court directly. That is, aside from their power to change the law itself and with it the decisions of a court. But that applies only within a country. When it comes to international affairs, including negotiations of international treaties, it is actually the national courts that do not have a say over politicians.

National courts (constitutional or not) could still decide that the conduct of a politician has been “illegal”, but that will only have jurisdiction in that country itself. Whatever bilateral agreement a country signs, still needs to be be implemented. If not, the power of that country to negotiate or sign any agreement with another countries simply just degrades to nothing more than agreements of intentions of the involved politicians. And that is not what international agreements are about.

Crime.inc

pre 8 godina

@ (Guest, 13 November 2015 11:53)
At least you are (only) right about one thing. That is, the Constitutional Court indeed has only relevance for Kosovo itself. It has absolutely nothing to say on bilateral political agreements. Of course it could decide that the agreement is unconstitutional. It could also decide that the politicians that have signed it need to be punished for acting against their constitution.

That still won't change the agreement and the binding signatures that are on it though. The agreement was made and now Kosovo has to implement it, unconstitutional or not. If they want to get it back in line with their constitution, they would have to renegotiate a new agreement.

Unilaterally canceling this agreement is only going to prove that no agreement can ever be made with any "government" of Kosovo, because this action shows that "government" clearly do not actually govern their own country. If a national Constitutional Court can annul international political negotiation, then the involved politicians simply have no mandate to sign anything at all.

Not to mention the irony in Kosovo's claim to cancel a international agreement because of their constitution, where it is clear that the same country is not governed by a rule of law. How may countries are there, where an opposition party can violently disrupt the normal proceedings of a parliament, without being thrown in jail for what is essentially a direct undermining of that country's state of law?

Amanaparts

pre 8 godina

@Kari Gold

First of all. 1 000 000 Serbs left SErbia since 2004. The main reason why the whole region is destabilzed is because of your government.

Second: Yep. You have to wait for the decision of the constitutional court of the sovereign Republik of Kosova. You can call it pseudo as long as you want. Fact is: You have to wait and hope and there is not one thing you could do about that.

Instead of blabbering nonsense, lets jut wait for the final decision. If its against the constetution, well then it needs to be negotiated. Simple as that. Politics should not have anykind of power over the courts. Separation of powers is fundamental.

Good guy

pre 8 godina

Sure you're nervous. Your EU integration depends on the dialogue with Pristina. If the dialoge with them fails for whatever reason. Your EU intergraion will fail also. You're lucky that the authorities in Pristina havent learnet this yet otherwise you'd be in real BIG TROUBLE.

Ari Gold

pre 8 godina

We have to wait for the opinion of this psuedo court as if rule of law actually exists in Kosovo-Metohija. This signed agreement was not imposed on the Albanians. They said it was their triumph and Serbia's capitulation. Then Serbia implemented almost all of it.

But now, they are throwing tear gas and Molotov cocktails inside the provincial parliament in Pristina and threatening instability if all Serbs are not completely wiped from Kosovo-Metohija. But ignoring that 100,000 impoverished Albanians left in the last year seeking refugee status in the West.

I don't think even trillions of dollars from NATO + an extended hand from the Serbian government will ever make this into a real country.

Guest

pre 8 godina

Lol @ Durim

You're telling Pristina what to do? I swear most serb politicians seem to have picked wrong careers. They're seriously funny, comidians; that seems far suitable for them.

Anyway, Mr. Duric... clearly you're not interested to hear what the court has to say, but it is not for you to worry about. It is for the Republic of Kosovo and her citizens. With that being said, hang on and wait to see the outcome. Until then, keep your buddies comfortable, go hangout with mr. Vulin, maybe you guys will score a few nationalistic points.

Ari Gold

pre 8 godina

We have to wait for the opinion of this psuedo court as if rule of law actually exists in Kosovo-Metohija. This signed agreement was not imposed on the Albanians. They said it was their triumph and Serbia's capitulation. Then Serbia implemented almost all of it.

But now, they are throwing tear gas and Molotov cocktails inside the provincial parliament in Pristina and threatening instability if all Serbs are not completely wiped from Kosovo-Metohija. But ignoring that 100,000 impoverished Albanians left in the last year seeking refugee status in the West.

I don't think even trillions of dollars from NATO + an extended hand from the Serbian government will ever make this into a real country.

Nikola Novakovid

pre 8 godina

Resolution 1244... Kosovo constitution is illegal...

Kosovo is not independent, it is dependent.... Dependent on the U.S., the EU and dependent on how Serbia reacts... If Serbia says NO, than its No, kosovo can't move, checkmate...

So if Kosovo Albanians wants real autonomy as we promised in resolution 1244, then you will negotiate with us and you would stop using your fake and illegal constitution as an excuse to hold captive Serb municipalities in Kosovo...

Life could be so much easier for the Kosovo Albanians under resolution 1244... So much man hours has been invested into this fake state of Kosovo and it has not achieved anything, it is more dependent then it has ever been... If all that man hours were converted to actually thinking of some good policies to help the Kosovo Albanians under resolution 1244, life would be so much better, it really would be... Declaring independence was a waste of time and money, it has helped no one....

Guest

pre 8 godina

Lol @ Durim

You're telling Pristina what to do? I swear most serb politicians seem to have picked wrong careers. They're seriously funny, comidians; that seems far suitable for them.

Anyway, Mr. Duric... clearly you're not interested to hear what the court has to say, but it is not for you to worry about. It is for the Republic of Kosovo and her citizens. With that being said, hang on and wait to see the outcome. Until then, keep your buddies comfortable, go hangout with mr. Vulin, maybe you guys will score a few nationalistic points.

Amanaparts

pre 8 godina

@Kari Gold

First of all. 1 000 000 Serbs left SErbia since 2004. The main reason why the whole region is destabilzed is because of your government.

Second: Yep. You have to wait for the decision of the constitutional court of the sovereign Republik of Kosova. You can call it pseudo as long as you want. Fact is: You have to wait and hope and there is not one thing you could do about that.

Instead of blabbering nonsense, lets jut wait for the final decision. If its against the constetution, well then it needs to be negotiated. Simple as that. Politics should not have anykind of power over the courts. Separation of powers is fundamental.

Good guy

pre 8 godina

Sure you're nervous. Your EU integration depends on the dialogue with Pristina. If the dialoge with them fails for whatever reason. Your EU intergraion will fail also. You're lucky that the authorities in Pristina havent learnet this yet otherwise you'd be in real BIG TROUBLE.

think again

pre 8 godina

Nikolobubba,

Resolution 1244... Kosovo constitution is illegal...

Kosovo is not independent, it is dependent.... Dependent on the U.S., the EU and dependent on how Serbia reacts... If Serbia says NO, than its No, kosovo can't move, checkmate...


That seems to be a popular but clouded Serbian view. You say that the Kosovo constitution is illegal by Res 1244, but over half the countries in the world disagree. So your argument is moot, you have nothing to back it up.
One small narrow victory in a long list of set backs for Serbia and you run out on the field singing "We are the Champions" and claim that if Serbia says no Kosovo does not move.
Serbia said no to Kosovo in the Olympics,
in the World Bank,
in the International Monetary Fund,
in the many athletic organizations
with Kosovo signing agreements with the EU,
but one by one they are proving you wrong.

You won the UNESCO by 3 votes, not even a majority victory, but you were able to garner support of 1/3 of the voting countries, HUGE VICTORY.

Those dependent on Viagra are able to occasionally able to round the bases once and a while but that does not mean they have become the "Stud" of the world.

think again

pre 8 godina

So if Kosovo Albanians wants real autonomy as we promised in resolution 1244, then you will negotiate with us and you would stop using your fake and illegal constitution as an excuse to hold captive Serb municipalities in Kosovo...

Life could be so much easier for the Kosovo Albanians under resolution 1244... So much man hours has been invested into this fake state of Kosovo and it has not achieved anything, it is more dependent then it has ever been... If all that man hours were converted to actually thinking of some good policies to help the Kosovo Albanians under resolution 1244, life would be so much better, it really would be... Declaring independence was a waste of time and money, it has helped no one....
(Nikola Novakovid, 13 November 2015 16:27
That is a good one now Serbs wrote 1244, you have to love your spirit.
Do you even know what 1244 was or is? From your post apparently not.
It is a document now 16 years old that laid out a roadmap of how to make Kosovo a functioning entity without a preset determination of status.
It was also a document to prevent any further violence of Serbia against the people of Kosovo. It was never intended as a permanent document. Nor did it self determine its end.
You have joined a long list of Serbs who have decided to voice an opinion on UNSC Resolution 1244 without ever reading it.

Crime.inc

pre 8 godina

@ (A little off base there, 13 November 2015 15:16)
What is it that you are trying to say?

That because there are brawls in the parliaments of other countries (where people can not behave normally), this would somehow justify what happened in the parliament of Kosovo? Seriously, when does bad behavior in another place ever justify your own bad behavior?

Also, a brawl (generally the result of an overheated argument) is not quite the same as a deliberately planned action to disrupt the proper functioning of a parliament (whenever that so happens to suite your political objectives). The latter really is very much a direct attack on the lawful governing of a country and would in many countries even be considered to be official treason against the state. It sure as hell does share similarities with any militant movement, which will just use force against anyone who does not agree with them.

As for your assumption about me, I am a foreigner living in Serbia and I have very little interest in following the local political circus all that close. However, even if the Serbian government would be worse than that of Kosovo, that would still not justify the latter to misbehave. Or does it to you? Because if it does, then any rational discussion with you will be rather futile. In that case, to you it will just be about “us” versus “them” and there simply is no room for any intelligence in such an argument.

Crime.inc

pre 8 godina

@ (Guest, 13 November 2015 11:53)
At least you are (only) right about one thing. That is, the Constitutional Court indeed has only relevance for Kosovo itself. It has absolutely nothing to say on bilateral political agreements. Of course it could decide that the agreement is unconstitutional. It could also decide that the politicians that have signed it need to be punished for acting against their constitution.

That still won't change the agreement and the binding signatures that are on it though. The agreement was made and now Kosovo has to implement it, unconstitutional or not. If they want to get it back in line with their constitution, they would have to renegotiate a new agreement.

Unilaterally canceling this agreement is only going to prove that no agreement can ever be made with any "government" of Kosovo, because this action shows that "government" clearly do not actually govern their own country. If a national Constitutional Court can annul international political negotiation, then the involved politicians simply have no mandate to sign anything at all.

Not to mention the irony in Kosovo's claim to cancel a international agreement because of their constitution, where it is clear that the same country is not governed by a rule of law. How may countries are there, where an opposition party can violently disrupt the normal proceedings of a parliament, without being thrown in jail for what is essentially a direct undermining of that country's state of law?

icj1

pre 8 godina

National courts (constitutional or not) could still decide that the conduct of a politician has been “illegal”, but that will only have jurisdiction in that country itself. Whatever bilateral agreement a country signs, still needs to be be implemented. If not, the power of that country to negotiate or sign any agreement with another countries simply just degrades to nothing more than agreements of intentions of the involved politicians. And that is not what international agreements are about.
(Crime.inc, 13 November 2015 13:33)

That's mostly correct, except for a small detail... "Whatever bilateral agreement a country signs AND RATIFIES, still needs to be be implemented"

A signed international agreement enters into force for a given country after that country has completed its internal process for its ratification or approval. In some cases the internal process may be just the signature from the president, in others could be approval by the Parliament, etc... etc, but it's up to the signing country to determine that process.

Drymades

pre 8 godina

Pacta sunt servanda, functional illiterates....

Here is wiki:....entitles states to require that obligations be respected and to rely upon the obligations being respected. This good faith basis of treaties implies that a party to the treaty cannot invoke provisions of its municipal (domestic) law as justification for a failure to perform.

Basic principle of international law, jus cogens, compelling law...earned a BA at the famed University of Texas, icj1?

Jugoslavija

pre 8 godina

It is quite apparent that you do not watch TV or read news outside of Serbia to see how many parliaments throughout the world in the past two years have been disrupted due to fights and brawls etc between parties.
Of course you can say this in Serbia because the moment a member of an opposition party happens to become a threat to the power of the ruling SNS then suddenly an investigation into corruption is opened on that individual.
(A little off base there, 13 November 2015 15:16)

There is absolutely no room in any parliament for parties to be fighting, including throwing eggs which will only lead to more violence. The Ukranian parliament is a perfect example where the opposition party is continually threatened and party officials are beaten.

In Russia, Boris Yeltsin when so far as to bomb his own parliament or DUMA , a total disgrace to his nation.

Crime.inc

pre 8 godina

@ (icj1, 13 November 2015 14:14)
You are, technically speaking that is, right that a bilateral international agreement only comes into force only once it is not just signed but also ratified. But that still is just the perspective from a national point of view. From an international point of view, a country that signs treaties but does not ratify them, is essentially the same as a country that has no power to make any such agreements.

So yes, you are right, in that this agreement will not come into force until Kosovo decides that it does (or more likely the US/EU, for they probably thought this whole strategy up a long time ago). But on the other hand, Kosovo has an obligation to ratify this agreement in order to remain a credible negotiation partner in international affairs. A country can screw up only so many times before there will be significant political and diplomatic consequences for those actions.

Crime.inc

pre 8 godina

@ (Amanaparts, 13 November 2015 13:02)
Your assessment of the separation of power is incomplete. Indeed there should be a separation between the courts and politics. Politicians should not be able to influence the court directly. That is, aside from their power to change the law itself and with it the decisions of a court. But that applies only within a country. When it comes to international affairs, including negotiations of international treaties, it is actually the national courts that do not have a say over politicians.

National courts (constitutional or not) could still decide that the conduct of a politician has been “illegal”, but that will only have jurisdiction in that country itself. Whatever bilateral agreement a country signs, still needs to be be implemented. If not, the power of that country to negotiate or sign any agreement with another countries simply just degrades to nothing more than agreements of intentions of the involved politicians. And that is not what international agreements are about.

A little off base there

pre 8 godina

(Crime.inc, 13 November 2015 13:18)
It is quite apparent that you do not watch TV or read news outside of Serbia to see how many parliaments throughout the world in the past two years have been disrupted due to fights and brawls etc between parties.
Of course you can say this in Serbia because the moment a member of an opposition party happens to become a threat to the power of the ruling SNS then suddenly an investigation into corruption is opened on that individual.

Avni

pre 8 godina

We're not interested what you say either. Every time he speaks he's saying the same thing. By the way he should be careful what he wishes for because we might do something he's isn't prepared for.

A little off base there

pre 8 godina

(Crime.inc, 13 November 2015 16:33)
Are you for real? You have very little interest in following the local politics of your own country but right on there with what is going on in Kosovo?
You speak of a us against them argument what do you think you are doing on this site?
My illustration to you was your trying to say that the parliament thing in Kosovo does not go on elsewhere, I admit that the teargas is one I haven't heard but a truly informed individual would realize that it is only one of many tactics governments use to block the other parties.
If you remember the recent international agreement on Iran, Russian parliament immediately ratified it without discussion(no surprise there) and the US congress was threatening to block it, if that would have happened it would have went to our Supreme Court which would be similar to the Kosovo Constitutional court.
But if your interests are in what is happening between Kosovo and Serbia it might be in your interest to actually follow what is going on in your local politics.

icj1

pre 8 godina

Life could be so much easier for the Kosovo Albanians under resolution 1244...
(Nikola Novakovid, 13 November 2015 16:27)

I'm with you here. Without UNSCR 1244, Serbia's army and police would still be in Kosovo and Kosovo would have never been independent from Serbia. So, yes indeed, UNSCR 1244 made life much easier for Kosovo!

icj1

pre 8 godina

You are, technically speaking that is, right that a bilateral international agreement only comes into force only once it is not just signed but also ratified.
(Crime.inc, 13 November 2015 14:59)

I'm glad you got it!

As for the rest of your post it can be ignored since it leads to the absurd conclusion that the international community has been doing everything wrong for decades by inventing and using this "monstrosity" called "ratification"!

WOW

pre 8 godina

Is there a stipulation in the agreement that states a ratification is required
by ANY entity ?!!!!
(Sam D, 13 November 2015 19:57)
Apparently there is a stipulation in the agreement that it will be submitted to the Constitutional court for review.
"2) On the basis of the First Agreement which recognises its distinct character, the Kosovo Government will adopt a decree directly applicable, which will be reviewed by the Constitutional Court."
And guess where you find that information, thats right, on the official Serbian website of
"© Office for Kosovo and Metohija, Government of the Republic of Serbia"
And who heads that office, right again, Duric, shall we from this day forward refer to him simply as "the slug"

Between this and Vucic declaring that UNESCO membership will NOT be discussed in Brussels after your government pleaded and pledged (before the whole world) that if they will not allow Kosovo membership now that it would be settled in the Brussels agreement talks.

Either a government of idiots or liars which do you choose.

too funny

pre 8 godina

I can just imagine the composition of this Constitutional Court in Pristina. Yesterday goat herding today a supreme court judge something like out of the Judge Roy Bean movie LOL.
(sj, 16 November 2015 08:20)
Could be right there is a Serb on the court, lol.

Don't just talk

pre 8 godina

Legal framework

1) The Association/Community of Serb majority municipalities in Kosovo is established as an association/ community of municipalities as foreseen by the First Agreement, the Law on ratification of the First Agreement and Kosovo law.

2) On the basis of the First Agreement which recognises its distinct character, the Kosovo Government will adopt a decree directly applicable, which will be reviewed by the Constitutional Court. The Community/Association will be a legal entity defined by its Statute, which will comprise at least the elements set out below.

3) The Statute will be adopted by a constituent assembly composed of the voted members of the assemblies of the participating municipalities.

READ POINT 2 and stop complaining: Djuric is don quixote

[http://www.kim.gov.rs/eng/pregovaracki-proces.php]

just wondering

pre 8 godina

Independence for California!
(L.A., 15 November 2015 07:37
Don't know why a Serb is campaigning for independence of California, which does not want independence itself, and any movement in todays time would not have the support of even a fraction of the people, but I think most of civilization has given up on Serbian logic by now.

sj

pre 8 godina

What has been overlooked here is the importance of the Agreement to the west. The creation of Serb ZSO is only a very minor issue, but it’s a major issue for the Albanians since it looks like creating another Bosnia. Yes the west has given assurance to the little Albos that this will never happen but in the end they really don’t care because the crux of the matter is that this agreement opens the door for the sale of assets in Kosovo.
Yes, there will be toing and froing but there is an old saying never get between a bucket of money and a corporation. The EU forced the Albanians into accepting the conditions of the Agreement and they will do the same in implementing them.
I can just imagine the composition of this Constitutional Court in Pristina. Yesterday goat herding today a supreme court judge something like out of the Judge Roy Bean movie LOL.

Guest

pre 8 godina

Lol @ Durim

You're telling Pristina what to do? I swear most serb politicians seem to have picked wrong careers. They're seriously funny, comidians; that seems far suitable for them.

Anyway, Mr. Duric... clearly you're not interested to hear what the court has to say, but it is not for you to worry about. It is for the Republic of Kosovo and her citizens. With that being said, hang on and wait to see the outcome. Until then, keep your buddies comfortable, go hangout with mr. Vulin, maybe you guys will score a few nationalistic points.

Ari Gold

pre 8 godina

We have to wait for the opinion of this psuedo court as if rule of law actually exists in Kosovo-Metohija. This signed agreement was not imposed on the Albanians. They said it was their triumph and Serbia's capitulation. Then Serbia implemented almost all of it.

But now, they are throwing tear gas and Molotov cocktails inside the provincial parliament in Pristina and threatening instability if all Serbs are not completely wiped from Kosovo-Metohija. But ignoring that 100,000 impoverished Albanians left in the last year seeking refugee status in the West.

I don't think even trillions of dollars from NATO + an extended hand from the Serbian government will ever make this into a real country.

Good guy

pre 8 godina

Sure you're nervous. Your EU integration depends on the dialogue with Pristina. If the dialoge with them fails for whatever reason. Your EU intergraion will fail also. You're lucky that the authorities in Pristina havent learnet this yet otherwise you'd be in real BIG TROUBLE.

Nikola Novakovid

pre 8 godina

Resolution 1244... Kosovo constitution is illegal...

Kosovo is not independent, it is dependent.... Dependent on the U.S., the EU and dependent on how Serbia reacts... If Serbia says NO, than its No, kosovo can't move, checkmate...

So if Kosovo Albanians wants real autonomy as we promised in resolution 1244, then you will negotiate with us and you would stop using your fake and illegal constitution as an excuse to hold captive Serb municipalities in Kosovo...

Life could be so much easier for the Kosovo Albanians under resolution 1244... So much man hours has been invested into this fake state of Kosovo and it has not achieved anything, it is more dependent then it has ever been... If all that man hours were converted to actually thinking of some good policies to help the Kosovo Albanians under resolution 1244, life would be so much better, it really would be... Declaring independence was a waste of time and money, it has helped no one....

Amanaparts

pre 8 godina

@Kari Gold

First of all. 1 000 000 Serbs left SErbia since 2004. The main reason why the whole region is destabilzed is because of your government.

Second: Yep. You have to wait for the decision of the constitutional court of the sovereign Republik of Kosova. You can call it pseudo as long as you want. Fact is: You have to wait and hope and there is not one thing you could do about that.

Instead of blabbering nonsense, lets jut wait for the final decision. If its against the constetution, well then it needs to be negotiated. Simple as that. Politics should not have anykind of power over the courts. Separation of powers is fundamental.

Crime.inc

pre 8 godina

@ (Amanaparts, 13 November 2015 13:02)
Your assessment of the separation of power is incomplete. Indeed there should be a separation between the courts and politics. Politicians should not be able to influence the court directly. That is, aside from their power to change the law itself and with it the decisions of a court. But that applies only within a country. When it comes to international affairs, including negotiations of international treaties, it is actually the national courts that do not have a say over politicians.

National courts (constitutional or not) could still decide that the conduct of a politician has been “illegal”, but that will only have jurisdiction in that country itself. Whatever bilateral agreement a country signs, still needs to be be implemented. If not, the power of that country to negotiate or sign any agreement with another countries simply just degrades to nothing more than agreements of intentions of the involved politicians. And that is not what international agreements are about.

Jugoslavija

pre 8 godina

It is quite apparent that you do not watch TV or read news outside of Serbia to see how many parliaments throughout the world in the past two years have been disrupted due to fights and brawls etc between parties.
Of course you can say this in Serbia because the moment a member of an opposition party happens to become a threat to the power of the ruling SNS then suddenly an investigation into corruption is opened on that individual.
(A little off base there, 13 November 2015 15:16)

There is absolutely no room in any parliament for parties to be fighting, including throwing eggs which will only lead to more violence. The Ukranian parliament is a perfect example where the opposition party is continually threatened and party officials are beaten.

In Russia, Boris Yeltsin when so far as to bomb his own parliament or DUMA , a total disgrace to his nation.

Crime.inc

pre 8 godina

@ (Guest, 13 November 2015 11:53)
At least you are (only) right about one thing. That is, the Constitutional Court indeed has only relevance for Kosovo itself. It has absolutely nothing to say on bilateral political agreements. Of course it could decide that the agreement is unconstitutional. It could also decide that the politicians that have signed it need to be punished for acting against their constitution.

That still won't change the agreement and the binding signatures that are on it though. The agreement was made and now Kosovo has to implement it, unconstitutional or not. If they want to get it back in line with their constitution, they would have to renegotiate a new agreement.

Unilaterally canceling this agreement is only going to prove that no agreement can ever be made with any "government" of Kosovo, because this action shows that "government" clearly do not actually govern their own country. If a national Constitutional Court can annul international political negotiation, then the involved politicians simply have no mandate to sign anything at all.

Not to mention the irony in Kosovo's claim to cancel a international agreement because of their constitution, where it is clear that the same country is not governed by a rule of law. How may countries are there, where an opposition party can violently disrupt the normal proceedings of a parliament, without being thrown in jail for what is essentially a direct undermining of that country's state of law?

icj1

pre 8 godina

National courts (constitutional or not) could still decide that the conduct of a politician has been “illegal”, but that will only have jurisdiction in that country itself. Whatever bilateral agreement a country signs, still needs to be be implemented. If not, the power of that country to negotiate or sign any agreement with another countries simply just degrades to nothing more than agreements of intentions of the involved politicians. And that is not what international agreements are about.
(Crime.inc, 13 November 2015 13:33)

That's mostly correct, except for a small detail... "Whatever bilateral agreement a country signs AND RATIFIES, still needs to be be implemented"

A signed international agreement enters into force for a given country after that country has completed its internal process for its ratification or approval. In some cases the internal process may be just the signature from the president, in others could be approval by the Parliament, etc... etc, but it's up to the signing country to determine that process.

Crime.inc

pre 8 godina

@ (icj1, 13 November 2015 14:14)
You are, technically speaking that is, right that a bilateral international agreement only comes into force only once it is not just signed but also ratified. But that still is just the perspective from a national point of view. From an international point of view, a country that signs treaties but does not ratify them, is essentially the same as a country that has no power to make any such agreements.

So yes, you are right, in that this agreement will not come into force until Kosovo decides that it does (or more likely the US/EU, for they probably thought this whole strategy up a long time ago). But on the other hand, Kosovo has an obligation to ratify this agreement in order to remain a credible negotiation partner in international affairs. A country can screw up only so many times before there will be significant political and diplomatic consequences for those actions.

A little off base there

pre 8 godina

(Crime.inc, 13 November 2015 13:18)
It is quite apparent that you do not watch TV or read news outside of Serbia to see how many parliaments throughout the world in the past two years have been disrupted due to fights and brawls etc between parties.
Of course you can say this in Serbia because the moment a member of an opposition party happens to become a threat to the power of the ruling SNS then suddenly an investigation into corruption is opened on that individual.

think again

pre 8 godina

Nikolobubba,

Resolution 1244... Kosovo constitution is illegal...

Kosovo is not independent, it is dependent.... Dependent on the U.S., the EU and dependent on how Serbia reacts... If Serbia says NO, than its No, kosovo can't move, checkmate...


That seems to be a popular but clouded Serbian view. You say that the Kosovo constitution is illegal by Res 1244, but over half the countries in the world disagree. So your argument is moot, you have nothing to back it up.
One small narrow victory in a long list of set backs for Serbia and you run out on the field singing "We are the Champions" and claim that if Serbia says no Kosovo does not move.
Serbia said no to Kosovo in the Olympics,
in the World Bank,
in the International Monetary Fund,
in the many athletic organizations
with Kosovo signing agreements with the EU,
but one by one they are proving you wrong.

You won the UNESCO by 3 votes, not even a majority victory, but you were able to garner support of 1/3 of the voting countries, HUGE VICTORY.

Those dependent on Viagra are able to occasionally able to round the bases once and a while but that does not mean they have become the "Stud" of the world.

think again

pre 8 godina

So if Kosovo Albanians wants real autonomy as we promised in resolution 1244, then you will negotiate with us and you would stop using your fake and illegal constitution as an excuse to hold captive Serb municipalities in Kosovo...

Life could be so much easier for the Kosovo Albanians under resolution 1244... So much man hours has been invested into this fake state of Kosovo and it has not achieved anything, it is more dependent then it has ever been... If all that man hours were converted to actually thinking of some good policies to help the Kosovo Albanians under resolution 1244, life would be so much better, it really would be... Declaring independence was a waste of time and money, it has helped no one....
(Nikola Novakovid, 13 November 2015 16:27
That is a good one now Serbs wrote 1244, you have to love your spirit.
Do you even know what 1244 was or is? From your post apparently not.
It is a document now 16 years old that laid out a roadmap of how to make Kosovo a functioning entity without a preset determination of status.
It was also a document to prevent any further violence of Serbia against the people of Kosovo. It was never intended as a permanent document. Nor did it self determine its end.
You have joined a long list of Serbs who have decided to voice an opinion on UNSC Resolution 1244 without ever reading it.

Drymades

pre 8 godina

Pacta sunt servanda, functional illiterates....

Here is wiki:....entitles states to require that obligations be respected and to rely upon the obligations being respected. This good faith basis of treaties implies that a party to the treaty cannot invoke provisions of its municipal (domestic) law as justification for a failure to perform.

Basic principle of international law, jus cogens, compelling law...earned a BA at the famed University of Texas, icj1?

Avni

pre 8 godina

We're not interested what you say either. Every time he speaks he's saying the same thing. By the way he should be careful what he wishes for because we might do something he's isn't prepared for.

icj1

pre 8 godina

Life could be so much easier for the Kosovo Albanians under resolution 1244...
(Nikola Novakovid, 13 November 2015 16:27)

I'm with you here. Without UNSCR 1244, Serbia's army and police would still be in Kosovo and Kosovo would have never been independent from Serbia. So, yes indeed, UNSCR 1244 made life much easier for Kosovo!

icj1

pre 8 godina

You are, technically speaking that is, right that a bilateral international agreement only comes into force only once it is not just signed but also ratified.
(Crime.inc, 13 November 2015 14:59)

I'm glad you got it!

As for the rest of your post it can be ignored since it leads to the absurd conclusion that the international community has been doing everything wrong for decades by inventing and using this "monstrosity" called "ratification"!

Crime.inc

pre 8 godina

@ (A little off base there, 13 November 2015 15:16)
What is it that you are trying to say?

That because there are brawls in the parliaments of other countries (where people can not behave normally), this would somehow justify what happened in the parliament of Kosovo? Seriously, when does bad behavior in another place ever justify your own bad behavior?

Also, a brawl (generally the result of an overheated argument) is not quite the same as a deliberately planned action to disrupt the proper functioning of a parliament (whenever that so happens to suite your political objectives). The latter really is very much a direct attack on the lawful governing of a country and would in many countries even be considered to be official treason against the state. It sure as hell does share similarities with any militant movement, which will just use force against anyone who does not agree with them.

As for your assumption about me, I am a foreigner living in Serbia and I have very little interest in following the local political circus all that close. However, even if the Serbian government would be worse than that of Kosovo, that would still not justify the latter to misbehave. Or does it to you? Because if it does, then any rational discussion with you will be rather futile. In that case, to you it will just be about “us” versus “them” and there simply is no room for any intelligence in such an argument.

Don't just talk

pre 8 godina

Legal framework

1) The Association/Community of Serb majority municipalities in Kosovo is established as an association/ community of municipalities as foreseen by the First Agreement, the Law on ratification of the First Agreement and Kosovo law.

2) On the basis of the First Agreement which recognises its distinct character, the Kosovo Government will adopt a decree directly applicable, which will be reviewed by the Constitutional Court. The Community/Association will be a legal entity defined by its Statute, which will comprise at least the elements set out below.

3) The Statute will be adopted by a constituent assembly composed of the voted members of the assemblies of the participating municipalities.

READ POINT 2 and stop complaining: Djuric is don quixote

[http://www.kim.gov.rs/eng/pregovaracki-proces.php]

sj

pre 8 godina

What has been overlooked here is the importance of the Agreement to the west. The creation of Serb ZSO is only a very minor issue, but it’s a major issue for the Albanians since it looks like creating another Bosnia. Yes the west has given assurance to the little Albos that this will never happen but in the end they really don’t care because the crux of the matter is that this agreement opens the door for the sale of assets in Kosovo.
Yes, there will be toing and froing but there is an old saying never get between a bucket of money and a corporation. The EU forced the Albanians into accepting the conditions of the Agreement and they will do the same in implementing them.
I can just imagine the composition of this Constitutional Court in Pristina. Yesterday goat herding today a supreme court judge something like out of the Judge Roy Bean movie LOL.

A little off base there

pre 8 godina

(Crime.inc, 13 November 2015 16:33)
Are you for real? You have very little interest in following the local politics of your own country but right on there with what is going on in Kosovo?
You speak of a us against them argument what do you think you are doing on this site?
My illustration to you was your trying to say that the parliament thing in Kosovo does not go on elsewhere, I admit that the teargas is one I haven't heard but a truly informed individual would realize that it is only one of many tactics governments use to block the other parties.
If you remember the recent international agreement on Iran, Russian parliament immediately ratified it without discussion(no surprise there) and the US congress was threatening to block it, if that would have happened it would have went to our Supreme Court which would be similar to the Kosovo Constitutional court.
But if your interests are in what is happening between Kosovo and Serbia it might be in your interest to actually follow what is going on in your local politics.

WOW

pre 8 godina

Is there a stipulation in the agreement that states a ratification is required
by ANY entity ?!!!!
(Sam D, 13 November 2015 19:57)
Apparently there is a stipulation in the agreement that it will be submitted to the Constitutional court for review.
"2) On the basis of the First Agreement which recognises its distinct character, the Kosovo Government will adopt a decree directly applicable, which will be reviewed by the Constitutional Court."
And guess where you find that information, thats right, on the official Serbian website of
"© Office for Kosovo and Metohija, Government of the Republic of Serbia"
And who heads that office, right again, Duric, shall we from this day forward refer to him simply as "the slug"

Between this and Vucic declaring that UNESCO membership will NOT be discussed in Brussels after your government pleaded and pledged (before the whole world) that if they will not allow Kosovo membership now that it would be settled in the Brussels agreement talks.

Either a government of idiots or liars which do you choose.

too funny

pre 8 godina

I can just imagine the composition of this Constitutional Court in Pristina. Yesterday goat herding today a supreme court judge something like out of the Judge Roy Bean movie LOL.
(sj, 16 November 2015 08:20)
Could be right there is a Serb on the court, lol.

just wondering

pre 8 godina

Independence for California!
(L.A., 15 November 2015 07:37
Don't know why a Serb is campaigning for independence of California, which does not want independence itself, and any movement in todays time would not have the support of even a fraction of the people, but I think most of civilization has given up on Serbian logic by now.