Neighbors' UNESCO vote on Kosovo "to reflect on relations"
Foreign Minister Ivica Dacic has commented on <a href="http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2015&mm=10&dd=22&nav_id=95800" class="text-link" target= "_blank">Montenegro's and Macedonia's vote</a> in favor of recommending Kosovo for membership in UNESCO.
ned taylor : don't be under the impression that my strings are being pulled by anyone else.
It reminds me the old anecdote :
- Who is he ?
- Joe the elusive.
- And why is he elusive ?
- Because nobody cares about him.
Same with you Joe who cares of your strings or strips ! You are free as the wind to pretend objectiveness covering your Serbophobia and Russophobia. Thanks God you can change nothing because СОБАКА ЛАЕТ, А КАРАВАН ИДЕТ !
Peggy: I have never said, nor will I ever, that Russia is Serbia's puppet master. Serbia is responsible for its own actions as are Macedonia and Montenegro. I am not part of "you people", I am a free thinking individual capable of reaching my own conclusions based on evidence. You and others are free to disagree but don't be under the impression that my strings are being pulled by anyone else.
Serbia threatening its neighbors one more time after butchering them for centuries. One of Serbia's neighbors (Montenegro) is paying right now. Serbia wants to create another Serbian Republic there just like it did in Bosnia and like it's trying to do in Kosovo. Serbs have shown throughout history that they cannot live with anyone else. Their idea of living with someone means oppressing and massacring them.
3. When somebody supports Serbia's positions that somebody becomes principled, independent, etc etc... But when somebody does not support Serbia's positions, that somebody becomes unprincipled, servant of the evil EU, Yankees and bla bla bla. That's not how the world works
===…==
That's exactly how the world works
(Peggy, 25 October 2015 02:53)
Hahaha.... So Serbia's positions are always principled according to you!!! Dear, the logic that you use in your posts is usually that of somebody with elementary school education, at best :)
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but let's wait and see how you think once the US abandons you and goes after greener pastures which don't go you way. Watch your support drop off.
(Peggy, 25 October 2015 02:53)
I think, by "you" you mean "Kosovo" because I personally don't depend on US' support or lack thereof :)
So, assuming you were referring to Kosovo, of course, as I've already said the US supported Kosovo's independence because it was cheaper and easier than forcing 2M people in Kosovo live under Serbia. It had nothing to do with principles. When the US stops supporting Kosovo, I'll say that the US's interests are different from Kosovo since international relations are all based in interests. I've not that naive to believe in principled or unprincipled BS.
Greener pastures like Serbia!? Amerivans already have enough of your 'greens' down at Baltimore.
(dontmakemelaughpeggy, 25 October 2015 20:05)
=====================
I never said that the US will find greener pastures in Serbia. I just said that it is greener pastures but now that you mentioned it, Serbia is definitely a greener pasture in comparison to "KosovA".
Peggy: I don't know why they voted how they did, but that's the point; neither do you. Why is it that when people do or say something that is in Serbia's interests they are fine, noble upstanding people but when the opposite applies they are puppets of the West who don't know their own minds?
==================
I believe you already asked that and I already answered it.
So again, that's how it works. When someone votes against Serbia you people proclaim that it was democracy at work and when someone supports Serbia you proclaim it's Russia's influence.
When we say that about the US (which is really evident) you come up with this question.
Hopefully you accept it this time.
(showgoeson, 24 October 2015 20:12)
I don't think I ever heard of such an idiotic post. Serbia or xenophobic Serbs have been the ONLY people to date to be able to suggest sites in Kosovo for listing on the World Heritage sites. Do you see yourself as a member of that class ever listing something Albanian there? If you say yes I suggest your reread your post.
As far as the origin of the name Kosovo, who cares?
I could care less who was on the land 2 million or 1000 years ago. The people who own and work the land in the present are the ones who should be able to determine who governs it.
The amazing thing I have found is people such as you who claim everything in Kosovo is Serbian, and it was under Serbia's control as far as police and military and government but yet claim that the Albanians cleansed the Serbs from there. The truth is Serbs did not want to live there with Albanians they voluntarily left the land. Even the ones who left after 1999 had means to return to their land but they choose not to because Milosevic destroyed every chance for a decent life in Kosovo for many years to come.
Actual truth, Get yourself a compass and go to Decani and see for yourself that the congregation faces east, not the entrance to the church.
(Bogus Roteous, 25 October 2015 17:16)
You mean the direction they're supposed to face? Thanks for pointing out what I've been saying all along and thus confirming my original point.
Danilo said that St. Sava church was built in the 1990s, which actually left me speechless. A pretty recent one my friend huh? Well, does its iconostasis faces Mother Teresa's tomb in Kolkata by any chance? Maybe its faces Pavelic's grave in Spain Danilo? Because Danilo, there's nothing that can prevent Hoxha's 'new man' aka Illyrian zombie from discovering bones of ancient autochthonous Illyrians everywhere in the world. Only hunger and fear can, Danilo :)
Peggy: I don't know why they voted how they did, but that's the point; neither do you. Why is it that when people do or say something that is in Serbia's interests they are fine, noble upstanding people but when the opposite applies they are puppets of the West who don't know their own minds?
St. Sava Church was built in the 1990s
(Danilo, 24 October 2015 17:56)
Plans to build St. Sava Temple began in the late 19th century in remembrance of what is believed to be the site the Ottoman Turks burned the remains of the Saint.
Construction began sometime in the 1930s and stopped with the German bombing of Belgrade. Sometime after Tito died permission was given to continue construction.
Hail Diplomaticus,who used to go by the name of Fungus.Yes he/she's still at it,keeping themself in the dark and feeding off bullshit Tell us some more fairy stories why don't you. You'll be telling us next that black is white or white is black. No-one with any knowledge of history is going to swallow that culpable attempt at revisionism. Probably won't stop you trying though eh?
Monastery of Visoki Decani is a real treasure of the Orthodox Christianity! Not only because it is dated 1348-50 but because it is one of the few places where Древо Иесcеево has survived. Out of 12 old churches where Jesus’ family tree is painted directly on the walls 6 are in Serbia. They also are: Sopocani (1265) and Zhica (1220, renewed in 1316) monasteries and in St Ahillia in Arilje church (1296), Bogoridici v Leviski in Prizren (1310). Also Древо Иесcеево is still alive on the outside walls of Studenice Monastry and two Russian churches including Blagoveshensky Sobor of Moscow Kremlin. Outside Serbia and Russia there are only 5-6 more places where the Rurikovici family tree of the Savior is exposed. They are the famous churches of St. Sophia (Trebizond), Saint Mary (Thessaloniki), in Kinzvisi and Safari (both Georgia), Saint Mary in Castoria (Greece). In Moscow Kremlin we have the real family tree of Jesus starting from David Rosteslavsky. The West would give much to destroy all those artefacts to show Jesus a Jew. They have cleaned this most important part of the Drevo in the West. I mean the real life ancestors of Jesus exposed as tree branches with leafs or as doves only. But original Drevo Ieseevo must contain portraits of at least 7 ancestors of Jesus (since David Rosteslavsky) of the Rurikovici Dynasty. All mentioned above Serbian churches and monasteries have them so we cannot trust the treasures to any western puppets even if some of them are true Christians.
close the border with Macedonia leave all refugees there. let the eu see how those imbeciles cope. serbia does not need the EU. Vucic needs to grow a pair and say enough is enough. kosovo is Serbia that is final.
3. When somebody supports Serbia's positions that somebody becomes principled, independent, etc etc... But when somebody does not support Serbia's positions, that somebody becomes unprincipled, servant of the evil EU, Yankees and bla bla bla. That's not how the world works
============================
That's exactly how the world works but let's wait and see how you think once the US abandons you and goes after greener pastures which don't go you way. Watch your support drop off. You will be saying the exact same thing too. Ooops, you already do. You say that Russia and China are doing the same thing as the US i.e. using and pressuring smaller countries.
As for doing the EU's bidding, how do you know that those concerned didn't simply vote the way that they truly believed was right?
(ned taylor, 24 October 2015 13:12)
=========================
Sure they did. Keep telling yourself that.
So called Diplomaticus should come back to this board after naming one single site in Kosovo that is on the World Heritage List and was built by Albanians.
Alternatively, finding an original name for Kosovo in Albanian language would count as well. Kosova, it appears, is just a pronunciation version of Kosovo. It means something in Serbian, but please enlighten us as to what the meaning is in Albanian.
In the meantime, it would be more fair for "Diplomaticus" to find an Albanian discussion board to write his/her "valued" opinions. He/she should decide if he/she just wants to taunt and provoke or truly give a meaningful contribution. I will never understand why is this board such a magnet for provocateurs.
Diplomaticus : “Out of 15 churches built by Milutin in 14th Century, only 3 were in Kosovo, while the rest was in Mount Athos, Thessaloniki, Constantinople and Jerusalem. Are these Serb places too according to you logic?”
You surprised me with your awareness of couple of things that are not accepted on this forum. Yet I have to return some of your own words : “ What do you people know of history?! Your brains have been washed and dried once too many times to distinguish facts from fiction.”
Say Milutin sounds as Serbian as Russian. So if what you say about 15 churches built was true there was no surprise that some of them were built in current Greece and some in Constantinople. Because the whole world belonged to one single empire and all were subjects to it. No matter if Milutin was a proto-Russian or a proto-Serb he was a subject too. It was a multinational empire where Slavs dominated while Christianity called Greek Belief was the official religion so it was no surprising that churches were built everywhere.
As you must know the first Greek state in the history appeared in 19 century and so was Serbia, Bulgaria ect. Before 19 century none of the Balkan countries had ever enjoyed it own statehood even 1 day. This I can prove. Even the nations on the Balkans were formed in 18-20 centuries. So you cannot tell this was Serbian and that was Greek. All were of the Horde and later of the Ottomans.
Have you ever asked yourself why we have to turn toward the east when we pray, or why the altar in our Orthodox churches is placed on the east side, or why we put icons on the east wall in our homes, or why do we bury people facing the east? These and many other questions concerning our faith arise every day. Certainly, they need an explanation.
It is not without reason or by chance that we worship toward the east. Of course, we can pray to our Almighty God everywhere and all times, and God, who is everywhere, will hear our prayers, even though we are not facing the east. However, we know that some of the attributes of God are that He is spiritual light, “and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all’(1 John 1:5), and Christ is called in the Scriptures Sun of Righteousness “But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings" (Mal 4:2).
“The sun will no more be your light by day, nor will the brightness of the moon shine on you, for the LORD will be your everlasting light, and your God will be your glory“ (Isa 60:19). Therefore, the east is the direction that must be assigned to His worship. Thus, we see that Christ is that light that comes from the east.
but the one on the front was bolted and we entered the church on the side door!? Father Sava said that builders made a mistake with this door but left as is , and they open the new door according to orthodox tradition. It was a big lie, and to this day Serbs are living in dreams.
(the truth, 23 October 2015 17:25)
p.s. The link you provide is in the Albanian language, further calling into question your pathetic retort.
(Modern Day Illyrian, 24 October 2015 13:01)
LOL the link I provided was Google maps. It was in Albanian because your browser most likely opens up to Albanian. Moron.
Orthodox Churches all face east. Where did you ever get the dumb idea "true" Orthodox churches face West? It's bad enough you make stuff up as you go along. What's worse is that you compound your stupidity by actually believing what you think as factual truth. Thanks for proving to me how clueless you are, both with historical evidence and with using a computer. It's good to know centuries of historical evidence and research have all be debunked by one Albanian troll on the Internet.
as I said previously, true Orthodox Churches must face West.
(Modern Day Illyrian, 24 October 2015 13:01)
Oh yeah, almost forgot. You didn't say that previously. You said:
If Deqani Monastery was originally an Eastern Orthodox church, the congregation, traditionally, must face East,
(Modern Day Illyrian, 23 October 2015 21:19)
So which one is it? East or West? You're not even consistent in your posts, If a congregation faces East, the church doors also face East because you have to enter eastward. If a "true" Orthodox church faces West, but the congregation faces east, they're looking towards the door, not the altar. Not only does this not make sense, it doesn't fit with the Google image you didn't look at.
Maybe you were drunk and dizzy when you visited one of the churches and couldn't figure out which end was what. Maybe someone played a joke on you and you believed it. Whatever your condition at the time, your argument, just like your directions, are contradictory.
We keep FYROM alive by keeping the border open, I bet greeks would vote for it too, if we closed it. Why is it for serbs so hard to believe that we only have eachother to rely on. Close the border as a counter move and see how FYROM likes to be another Kosovo. Montenegro should face sanctions for this.
UNESCO is about education, science and culture, not mythology and national-socialist trash, comrade Dacic!
Montenegro and Macedonia have their own national interests and are not interested about you politics of internal consumption. What would Serbia do without the railway to Bar? What about Corridor 10? Hungary already built a fence north, so stop burning bridges with all of your neighbors because geography is what it is and you cannot be transplanted to Mother Russia where your hoards came from, unfortunately.
You still clam the churches and monasteries of Macedonia, though there are no Serbs there!
Serb prices built churches for their Christian subjects in all the lands they conquered, not a particular nation, because the notion of nationalism simply did not exist! They also built in Greece and Jerusalem, so what (!), are they Serb lands as well?! Did you not know that for 500 years the keys of the churches and monasteries where held by Albanian families who had swore to defend them with blood, even after converting to Islam?
Out of 15 churches built by Milutin in 14th Century, only 3 were in Kosovo, while the rest was in Mount Athos, Thessaloniki, Constantinople and Jerusalem. Are these Serb places too according to you logic?
What do you people know of history?! Your brains have been washed and dried once too many times to distinguish facts from fiction.
I'll tell you why not Peggy. Because it's easy to act childishly but much harder and honourable to rise above these situations and do the right thing. Tit for tat gets no-one anywhere and just perpetuates the circle of despair. Why doesn't Serbia show itself to be a true leader capable of ignoring petty frustrations and concentrating on doing what is best for the region as a whole? As for doing the EU's bidding, how do you know that those concerned didn't simply vote the way that they truly believed was right?
The front doors in Orthodox churches must face West as must the Iconostasis, the congregation faces the Iconostasis, therefore, they must face East.
(Modern Day Illyrian, 23 October 2015 21:19)
Type in "Visoki Decani" in Google maps and you'll see it's built facing East.
(the actual truth, 24 October 2015 00:40)
Thank you for proving my point, as I said previously, true Orthodox Churches must face West. You're trying too hard; you've been hoisted by your own petard. Now then, don't you feel foolish!
p.s. The link you provide is in the Albanian language, further calling into question your pathetic retort.
Ned Taylor said:
Whilst I accept that Dacic is unhappy, his reaction is that of a spoilt child. He is already planning to vote against Macedonia and Montenegro in the future irrespective of the merits of whatever it is that will be voted upon.
===…==
Why not, that's what they are doing. They know it's wrong but still vote according to EU wishes.
(Peggy, 24 October 2015 00:18)
1. Assuming that Macedonia and Montenegro are so unprincipled as you say, you are also saying that Serbia is the same
2. Just because you do not like it, does not make it wrong. Nobody has appointed you as the global authority on morality
3. When somebody supports Serbia's positions that somebody becomes principled, independent, etc etc... But when somebody does not support Serbia's positions, that somebody becomes unprincipled, servant of the evil EU, Yankees and bla bla bla. That's not how the world works and it's no suprise that Serbia keeps loosing and loosing because it treats other countries as children who are not capable of making decisions on their own according to their own (not Serbia's) interests. I understand that Serbia might think of itself as being the master of the universe, but other countries don't like being taught by an insignificant country like Serbia what's principled vs unprincipled or right vs wrong.
Ned Taylor said:
Whilst I accept that Dacic is unhappy, his reaction is that of a spoilt child. He is already planning to vote against Macedonia and Montenegro in the future irrespective of the merits of whatever it is that will be voted upon.
=====================
Why not, that's what they are doing. They know it's wrong but still vote according to EU wishes.
If Deqani [sic] Monastery was originally an Eastern Orthodox church, the congregation, traditionally, must face East, this is not the case at this monastery. In Catholic churches this need not be the case. The front doors in Orthodox churches must face West as must the Iconostasis, the congregation faces the Iconostasis, therefore, they must face East.
(Modern Day Illyrian, 23 October 2015 21:19)
Type in "Visoki Decani" in Google maps and you'll see it's built facing East.
Nice try attempting to distort reality. Nice try also trying to argue something no historical source of any nationality or time frame confirms.
Finally, nice try "the truth" attempting to write as someone else to give the impression you have supporters.
Are all you modern day Illyrians as gullible and simple-minded as you were a century ago or are you deliberately trying to sound foolish? It's one thing not to have any history of your own for the rest of the world to care about. It's something else to deliberately and carelessly steal history of others and claim it as your own, thinking people will believe you. This is especially true when you people have tried to destroy the very monasteries you claim were yours. Try to at least be consistent in your perversions.
If Dacic was a true Serb and not merely a Titoist then his words might have some significance. However the Montenegrins and Macedonians know who Dacic is and know that Serbia will not dare do anything to them, so they are free to vote against Serbian interests without fear.
Montenegro joined anti-Russian sanctions (Macedonia hasn't yet been so stupid) and Russia has retaliated with anti-Montenegrin sanctions. These sanctions will include massive reductions in the number of Russian tourists and little or no future Russian investment. The cost of these stupid, unjust, and ineffectual EU-inspired sanctions will be very significant for Montenegrins. Pretty soon the Montenegrins will unilaterally renounce these sanctions, but the Russians won't forgive them. As long as Djukanovic and his criminal gang remain in power, then Russia will make Montenegro suffer.
A true Serb would do as the Russians do. Montenegro and Macedonia could be squeezed so hard that they would weep. But that will not happen. Dacic is made of the same rotten stuff as Djukanovic and the Macedonian President, whoever he may be.
The foundations of any single Orthodox church need to be thoroughly examined and will be thoroughly examined, including those of Hagia Sofia and Saint Sava Church in Belgrade. Cause, most probably, they are hiding the relics of a catholic priest who has been preaching there long before the Slavs, and in particular the Serbs, arrived.
For example, we recently wanted to examine the foundations of an old, crumbling orthodox church in Drymades, South Albania, in order to find the bones of famed priest from Catalogna - Mr. Nilo Catalano, who wrote beautiful poems in Albanian and told them to Greeks in Drymades.
Didn't find any bones within that old ugly church which eventually crumpled under us, actually, but we are searching in other orthodox churches. Period
Deqani Monastery was a catholic church built by Albanians. About 10 years ago, I was there with UNMIK Officials and I asked father Sava aka Abbot Sava now, why are two doors to enter the church, but the one on the front was bolted and we entered the church on the side door!? Father Sava said that builders made a mistake with this door but left as is , and they open the new door according to orthodox tradition. It was a big lie, and to this day Serbs are living in dreams. Go to Monastery and check the doors, which I am talking about.
(the truth, 23 October 2015 17:25)
The Truth,
You seem to be the only one on this page that knows the facts. If Deqani Monastery was originally an Eastern Orthodox church, the congregation, traditionally, must face East, this is not the case at this monastery. In Catholic churches this need not be the case. The front doors in Orthodox churches must face West as must the Iconostasis, the congregation faces the Iconostasis, therefore, they must face East. This monastery could not have originally been Orthodox, but Catholic and built by Albanians. I know this because I am an Eastern Orthodox Albanian. Father Sava must be aware of this fact. Unfortunately, the only conclusion one may draw is he is trying to deceive those that ask questions concerning the placement of the front doors of the church. Very sad indeed, coming from a man of the church.
Albanians are government coalition in Macedonia and make up 30% of her population.
Djukanovic in Montenegro has been in coalition with Albanians for years too.If Albanians leave the coalition in Montenegro Djukanovic will be not PM anymore.
So why those two countries will vote against Kosovo?
Deqani Monastery was a catholic church built by Albanians.
(the truth, 23 October 2015 17:25)
You know, I blame Tito more than I blame Hoxha for this assault on intelligence. It's one thing for Hoxha to push historical revisionism in that isolated little North Korean-esque state of his for so long, but Tito and other Yugoslav officials were so damn lazy in supporting education for Kosovo Albanians they simply allowed for the importation of schoolbooks from Tirana to function in place of actual (and factual) education, which is why we get crap like this believed among their generational offshoots.
Dacic please! You withdraw ambassadors from Macedonia and Montenegro only to let them return one month later. Still montenegrins can use all benefits in Serbia while serbs are considered foreigners In Montenegro. Dacic, Vucic and others in the government are idiots and traitors.
the truth : Deqani Monastery was a catholic church built by Albanians. … why are two doors to enter !?
Visoki Decani is monastery but not a church. It also could not belong to the Shiptars because it was built at least 250-300 years before the first nations started to form in the 17-18 centuries. It also could not be Catholic as well. First because it was built before Pope Nikolas V has established the Catholic Church in mid 15-th century. Second because Catholics were the mortal enemies of the Ottomans since 17 century and the monastery would have zero chance to survive. Otherwise it could survive only as an Orthodox Monastery because before 1702 were all buried as Orthodox Christians either in St.Sophie Chrich of Istanbul or their family church in Adrianople now Erdine. Also the Shqiptars like their neighbors were formed as nations only after they set free from the Osmans in 19 century. So churches and monasteries could belong to you too if you lived in the nearby and if you were Orthodox Christians but not because of Shqiptarity. Only 3 peoples still have the Komnin Dynasty's two head shqiptar symbol on their flag today ! Komnins and the Rurikovici were one dynasty and Jesus belonged to it … Read about Andronicus I Komnin and Andrey Bogolubsky. You can see his family tree (Drevo Ieseevo) on Visoki Decani Monatery’s walls. Everybody painted there was Rurikovic = Komnin. As for the second door it means nothing and proves nothing – forget about it.
Change your username to "lies" because that's all you ever write around here. You never went to Decani, you never met Fr. Sava, and that story never existed outside your imagination.
(the actual truth, 23 October 2015 17:51...
Actually the Decan Monastery was guarded by Albanians for generations.
Rustemi,Sokoli,Aliu and Smaja still are being honored by Serbian Orthodox Church as loyal guardians of Decani.
Also the Monastery was build in a land which was owned by an Albanian who later become guardian of the monastery.
In the other words, what I am saying is that Serbia is not worried about 3-4 monasteries but it is worried that membership in UNESCO will empower Kosovo's ambitions to UN.
The monasteries have been there for 1000 years and during this time Kosovo has been ruled by Serbs and Albanians.
If Albanians wanted to demolished those monasteries they would have done long time ago, not waiting for 2015.
But this struggle it looks that it is over.
Albanian ambassador in UNESCO Besiana Kadare claimed yesterday that Kosovo has more then enough votes to become e member.
She is a very credible person.
Also it never have happened in UN history that General Assembly to vote down a recommendation of Board of UNESCO.
Deqani Monastery was a catholic church built by Albanians.
(the truth, 23 October 2015 17:25)
The Decani architecture and frescoes are distinctly in the tradition of Orthodox churches, if it was Catholic, than all the Bulgarian, Greek , Romanian and Russian churches were built by Catholics as well?
If you are so interested in the history of the Decani Church, why didn't you ask Father Sava on why that door exists?
However, to your point, the Agia Sophia was converted into a Mosque as well as other churches in Constantinople after the Byzantine Empire fell to the Turks in the 13th century.
Deqani Monastery was a catholic church built by Albanians.
(the truth, 23 October 2015 17:25)
Change your username to "lies" because that's all you ever write around here. You never went to Decani, you never met Fr. Sava, and that story never existed outside your imagination.
Whilst I accept that Dacic is unhappy, his reaction is that of a spoilt child. He is already planning to vote against Macedonia and Montenegro in the future irrespective of the merits of whatever it is that will be voted upon. If you are going to get upset about something make it an issue that is critical to Serbia, not a side issue. While people like Dacic hold the levers of power I'm afraid that it will e very slow progress indeed. He is supposed to be a diplomat not a schoolyard bully.
"One is about kicking a ball, the other is about Decani (monastery)," Dacic said, in reference to the medieval holy place of the Serbian Orthodox Church (SPC).
Deqani Monastery was a catholic church built by Albanians. About 10 years ago, I was there with UNMIK Officials and I asked father Sava aka Abbot Sava now, why are two doors to enter the church, but the one on the front was bolted and we entered the church on the side door!? Father Sava said that builders made a mistake with this door but left as is , and they open the new door according to orthodox tradition. It was a big lie, and to this day Serbs are living in dreams. Go to Monastery and check the doors, which I am talking about.
UNESCO is about education, science and culture, not mythology and national-socialist trash, comrade Dacic!
Montenegro and Macedonia have their own national interests and are not interested about you politics of internal consumption. What would Serbia do without the railway to Bar? What about Corridor 10? Hungary already built a fence north, so stop burning bridges with all of your neighbors because geography is what it is and you cannot be transplanted to Mother Russia where your hoards came from, unfortunately.
You still clam the churches and monasteries of Macedonia, though there are no Serbs there!
Serb prices built churches for their Christian subjects in all the lands they conquered, not a particular nation, because the notion of nationalism simply did not exist! They also built in Greece and Jerusalem, so what (!), are they Serb lands as well?! Did you not know that for 500 years the keys of the churches and monasteries where held by Albanian families who had swore to defend them with blood, even after converting to Islam?
Out of 15 churches built by Milutin in 14th Century, only 3 were in Kosovo, while the rest was in Mount Athos, Thessaloniki, Constantinople and Jerusalem. Are these Serb places too according to you logic?
What do you people know of history?! Your brains have been washed and dried once too many times to distinguish facts from fiction.
"One is about kicking a ball, the other is about Decani (monastery)," Dacic said, in reference to the medieval holy place of the Serbian Orthodox Church (SPC).
Deqani Monastery was a catholic church built by Albanians. About 10 years ago, I was there with UNMIK Officials and I asked father Sava aka Abbot Sava now, why are two doors to enter the church, but the one on the front was bolted and we entered the church on the side door!? Father Sava said that builders made a mistake with this door but left as is , and they open the new door according to orthodox tradition. It was a big lie, and to this day Serbs are living in dreams. Go to Monastery and check the doors, which I am talking about.
Deqani Monastery was a catholic church built by Albanians.
(the truth, 23 October 2015 17:25)
The Decani architecture and frescoes are distinctly in the tradition of Orthodox churches, if it was Catholic, than all the Bulgarian, Greek , Romanian and Russian churches were built by Catholics as well?
If you are so interested in the history of the Decani Church, why didn't you ask Father Sava on why that door exists?
However, to your point, the Agia Sophia was converted into a Mosque as well as other churches in Constantinople after the Byzantine Empire fell to the Turks in the 13th century.
Deqani Monastery was a catholic church built by Albanians.
(the truth, 23 October 2015 17:25)
Change your username to "lies" because that's all you ever write around here. You never went to Decani, you never met Fr. Sava, and that story never existed outside your imagination.
Albanians are government coalition in Macedonia and make up 30% of her population.
Djukanovic in Montenegro has been in coalition with Albanians for years too.If Albanians leave the coalition in Montenegro Djukanovic will be not PM anymore.
So why those two countries will vote against Kosovo?
Whilst I accept that Dacic is unhappy, his reaction is that of a spoilt child. He is already planning to vote against Macedonia and Montenegro in the future irrespective of the merits of whatever it is that will be voted upon. If you are going to get upset about something make it an issue that is critical to Serbia, not a side issue. While people like Dacic hold the levers of power I'm afraid that it will e very slow progress indeed. He is supposed to be a diplomat not a schoolyard bully.
Change your username to "lies" because that's all you ever write around here. You never went to Decani, you never met Fr. Sava, and that story never existed outside your imagination.
(the actual truth, 23 October 2015 17:51...
Actually the Decan Monastery was guarded by Albanians for generations.
Rustemi,Sokoli,Aliu and Smaja still are being honored by Serbian Orthodox Church as loyal guardians of Decani.
Also the Monastery was build in a land which was owned by an Albanian who later become guardian of the monastery.
In the other words, what I am saying is that Serbia is not worried about 3-4 monasteries but it is worried that membership in UNESCO will empower Kosovo's ambitions to UN.
The monasteries have been there for 1000 years and during this time Kosovo has been ruled by Serbs and Albanians.
If Albanians wanted to demolished those monasteries they would have done long time ago, not waiting for 2015.
But this struggle it looks that it is over.
Albanian ambassador in UNESCO Besiana Kadare claimed yesterday that Kosovo has more then enough votes to become e member.
She is a very credible person.
Also it never have happened in UN history that General Assembly to vote down a recommendation of Board of UNESCO.
Deqani Monastery was a catholic church built by Albanians. About 10 years ago, I was there with UNMIK Officials and I asked father Sava aka Abbot Sava now, why are two doors to enter the church, but the one on the front was bolted and we entered the church on the side door!? Father Sava said that builders made a mistake with this door but left as is , and they open the new door according to orthodox tradition. It was a big lie, and to this day Serbs are living in dreams. Go to Monastery and check the doors, which I am talking about.
(the truth, 23 October 2015 17:25)
The Truth,
You seem to be the only one on this page that knows the facts. If Deqani Monastery was originally an Eastern Orthodox church, the congregation, traditionally, must face East, this is not the case at this monastery. In Catholic churches this need not be the case. The front doors in Orthodox churches must face West as must the Iconostasis, the congregation faces the Iconostasis, therefore, they must face East. This monastery could not have originally been Orthodox, but Catholic and built by Albanians. I know this because I am an Eastern Orthodox Albanian. Father Sava must be aware of this fact. Unfortunately, the only conclusion one may draw is he is trying to deceive those that ask questions concerning the placement of the front doors of the church. Very sad indeed, coming from a man of the church.
Ned Taylor said:
Whilst I accept that Dacic is unhappy, his reaction is that of a spoilt child. He is already planning to vote against Macedonia and Montenegro in the future irrespective of the merits of whatever it is that will be voted upon.
===…==
Why not, that's what they are doing. They know it's wrong but still vote according to EU wishes.
(Peggy, 24 October 2015 00:18)
1. Assuming that Macedonia and Montenegro are so unprincipled as you say, you are also saying that Serbia is the same
2. Just because you do not like it, does not make it wrong. Nobody has appointed you as the global authority on morality
3. When somebody supports Serbia's positions that somebody becomes principled, independent, etc etc... But when somebody does not support Serbia's positions, that somebody becomes unprincipled, servant of the evil EU, Yankees and bla bla bla. That's not how the world works and it's no suprise that Serbia keeps loosing and loosing because it treats other countries as children who are not capable of making decisions on their own according to their own (not Serbia's) interests. I understand that Serbia might think of itself as being the master of the universe, but other countries don't like being taught by an insignificant country like Serbia what's principled vs unprincipled or right vs wrong.
I'll tell you why not Peggy. Because it's easy to act childishly but much harder and honourable to rise above these situations and do the right thing. Tit for tat gets no-one anywhere and just perpetuates the circle of despair. Why doesn't Serbia show itself to be a true leader capable of ignoring petty frustrations and concentrating on doing what is best for the region as a whole? As for doing the EU's bidding, how do you know that those concerned didn't simply vote the way that they truly believed was right?
Deqani Monastery was a catholic church built by Albanians.
(the truth, 23 October 2015 17:25)
You know, I blame Tito more than I blame Hoxha for this assault on intelligence. It's one thing for Hoxha to push historical revisionism in that isolated little North Korean-esque state of his for so long, but Tito and other Yugoslav officials were so damn lazy in supporting education for Kosovo Albanians they simply allowed for the importation of schoolbooks from Tirana to function in place of actual (and factual) education, which is why we get crap like this believed among their generational offshoots.
We keep FYROM alive by keeping the border open, I bet greeks would vote for it too, if we closed it. Why is it for serbs so hard to believe that we only have eachother to rely on. Close the border as a counter move and see how FYROM likes to be another Kosovo. Montenegro should face sanctions for this.
Dacic please! You withdraw ambassadors from Macedonia and Montenegro only to let them return one month later. Still montenegrins can use all benefits in Serbia while serbs are considered foreigners In Montenegro. Dacic, Vucic and others in the government are idiots and traitors.
the truth : Deqani Monastery was a catholic church built by Albanians. … why are two doors to enter !?
Visoki Decani is monastery but not a church. It also could not belong to the Shiptars because it was built at least 250-300 years before the first nations started to form in the 17-18 centuries. It also could not be Catholic as well. First because it was built before Pope Nikolas V has established the Catholic Church in mid 15-th century. Second because Catholics were the mortal enemies of the Ottomans since 17 century and the monastery would have zero chance to survive. Otherwise it could survive only as an Orthodox Monastery because before 1702 were all buried as Orthodox Christians either in St.Sophie Chrich of Istanbul or their family church in Adrianople now Erdine. Also the Shqiptars like their neighbors were formed as nations only after they set free from the Osmans in 19 century. So churches and monasteries could belong to you too if you lived in the nearby and if you were Orthodox Christians but not because of Shqiptarity. Only 3 peoples still have the Komnin Dynasty's two head shqiptar symbol on their flag today ! Komnins and the Rurikovici were one dynasty and Jesus belonged to it … Read about Andronicus I Komnin and Andrey Bogolubsky. You can see his family tree (Drevo Ieseevo) on Visoki Decani Monatery’s walls. Everybody painted there was Rurikovic = Komnin. As for the second door it means nothing and proves nothing – forget about it.
If Dacic was a true Serb and not merely a Titoist then his words might have some significance. However the Montenegrins and Macedonians know who Dacic is and know that Serbia will not dare do anything to them, so they are free to vote against Serbian interests without fear.
Montenegro joined anti-Russian sanctions (Macedonia hasn't yet been so stupid) and Russia has retaliated with anti-Montenegrin sanctions. These sanctions will include massive reductions in the number of Russian tourists and little or no future Russian investment. The cost of these stupid, unjust, and ineffectual EU-inspired sanctions will be very significant for Montenegrins. Pretty soon the Montenegrins will unilaterally renounce these sanctions, but the Russians won't forgive them. As long as Djukanovic and his criminal gang remain in power, then Russia will make Montenegro suffer.
A true Serb would do as the Russians do. Montenegro and Macedonia could be squeezed so hard that they would weep. But that will not happen. Dacic is made of the same rotten stuff as Djukanovic and the Macedonian President, whoever he may be.
Ned Taylor said:
Whilst I accept that Dacic is unhappy, his reaction is that of a spoilt child. He is already planning to vote against Macedonia and Montenegro in the future irrespective of the merits of whatever it is that will be voted upon.
=====================
Why not, that's what they are doing. They know it's wrong but still vote according to EU wishes.
If Deqani [sic] Monastery was originally an Eastern Orthodox church, the congregation, traditionally, must face East, this is not the case at this monastery. In Catholic churches this need not be the case. The front doors in Orthodox churches must face West as must the Iconostasis, the congregation faces the Iconostasis, therefore, they must face East.
(Modern Day Illyrian, 23 October 2015 21:19)
Type in "Visoki Decani" in Google maps and you'll see it's built facing East.
Nice try attempting to distort reality. Nice try also trying to argue something no historical source of any nationality or time frame confirms.
Finally, nice try "the truth" attempting to write as someone else to give the impression you have supporters.
Are all you modern day Illyrians as gullible and simple-minded as you were a century ago or are you deliberately trying to sound foolish? It's one thing not to have any history of your own for the rest of the world to care about. It's something else to deliberately and carelessly steal history of others and claim it as your own, thinking people will believe you. This is especially true when you people have tried to destroy the very monasteries you claim were yours. Try to at least be consistent in your perversions.
close the border with Macedonia leave all refugees there. let the eu see how those imbeciles cope. serbia does not need the EU. Vucic needs to grow a pair and say enough is enough. kosovo is Serbia that is final.
Monastery of Visoki Decani is a real treasure of the Orthodox Christianity! Not only because it is dated 1348-50 but because it is one of the few places where Древо Иесcеево has survived. Out of 12 old churches where Jesus’ family tree is painted directly on the walls 6 are in Serbia. They also are: Sopocani (1265) and Zhica (1220, renewed in 1316) monasteries and in St Ahillia in Arilje church (1296), Bogoridici v Leviski in Prizren (1310). Also Древо Иесcеево is still alive on the outside walls of Studenice Monastry and two Russian churches including Blagoveshensky Sobor of Moscow Kremlin. Outside Serbia and Russia there are only 5-6 more places where the Rurikovici family tree of the Savior is exposed. They are the famous churches of St. Sophia (Trebizond), Saint Mary (Thessaloniki), in Kinzvisi and Safari (both Georgia), Saint Mary in Castoria (Greece). In Moscow Kremlin we have the real family tree of Jesus starting from David Rosteslavsky. The West would give much to destroy all those artefacts to show Jesus a Jew. They have cleaned this most important part of the Drevo in the West. I mean the real life ancestors of Jesus exposed as tree branches with leafs or as doves only. But original Drevo Ieseevo must contain portraits of at least 7 ancestors of Jesus (since David Rosteslavsky) of the Rurikovici Dynasty. All mentioned above Serbian churches and monasteries have them so we cannot trust the treasures to any western puppets even if some of them are true Christians.
Peggy: I don't know why they voted how they did, but that's the point; neither do you. Why is it that when people do or say something that is in Serbia's interests they are fine, noble upstanding people but when the opposite applies they are puppets of the West who don't know their own minds?
3. When somebody supports Serbia's positions that somebody becomes principled, independent, etc etc... But when somebody does not support Serbia's positions, that somebody becomes unprincipled, servant of the evil EU, Yankees and bla bla bla. That's not how the world works
============================
That's exactly how the world works but let's wait and see how you think once the US abandons you and goes after greener pastures which don't go you way. Watch your support drop off. You will be saying the exact same thing too. Ooops, you already do. You say that Russia and China are doing the same thing as the US i.e. using and pressuring smaller countries.
St. Sava Church was built in the 1990s
(Danilo, 24 October 2015 17:56)
Plans to build St. Sava Temple began in the late 19th century in remembrance of what is believed to be the site the Ottoman Turks burned the remains of the Saint.
Construction began sometime in the 1930s and stopped with the German bombing of Belgrade. Sometime after Tito died permission was given to continue construction.
3. When somebody supports Serbia's positions that somebody becomes principled, independent, etc etc... But when somebody does not support Serbia's positions, that somebody becomes unprincipled, servant of the evil EU, Yankees and bla bla bla. That's not how the world works
===…==
That's exactly how the world works
(Peggy, 25 October 2015 02:53)
Hahaha.... So Serbia's positions are always principled according to you!!! Dear, the logic that you use in your posts is usually that of somebody with elementary school education, at best :)
----------
but let's wait and see how you think once the US abandons you and goes after greener pastures which don't go you way. Watch your support drop off.
(Peggy, 25 October 2015 02:53)
I think, by "you" you mean "Kosovo" because I personally don't depend on US' support or lack thereof :)
So, assuming you were referring to Kosovo, of course, as I've already said the US supported Kosovo's independence because it was cheaper and easier than forcing 2M people in Kosovo live under Serbia. It had nothing to do with principles. When the US stops supporting Kosovo, I'll say that the US's interests are different from Kosovo since international relations are all based in interests. I've not that naive to believe in principled or unprincipled BS.
The front doors in Orthodox churches must face West as must the Iconostasis, the congregation faces the Iconostasis, therefore, they must face East.
(Modern Day Illyrian, 23 October 2015 21:19)
Type in "Visoki Decani" in Google maps and you'll see it's built facing East.
(the actual truth, 24 October 2015 00:40)
Thank you for proving my point, as I said previously, true Orthodox Churches must face West. You're trying too hard; you've been hoisted by your own petard. Now then, don't you feel foolish!
p.s. The link you provide is in the Albanian language, further calling into question your pathetic retort.
(showgoeson, 24 October 2015 20:12)
I don't think I ever heard of such an idiotic post. Serbia or xenophobic Serbs have been the ONLY people to date to be able to suggest sites in Kosovo for listing on the World Heritage sites. Do you see yourself as a member of that class ever listing something Albanian there? If you say yes I suggest your reread your post.
As far as the origin of the name Kosovo, who cares?
I could care less who was on the land 2 million or 1000 years ago. The people who own and work the land in the present are the ones who should be able to determine who governs it.
The amazing thing I have found is people such as you who claim everything in Kosovo is Serbian, and it was under Serbia's control as far as police and military and government but yet claim that the Albanians cleansed the Serbs from there. The truth is Serbs did not want to live there with Albanians they voluntarily left the land. Even the ones who left after 1999 had means to return to their land but they choose not to because Milosevic destroyed every chance for a decent life in Kosovo for many years to come.
Serbia threatening its neighbors one more time after butchering them for centuries. One of Serbia's neighbors (Montenegro) is paying right now. Serbia wants to create another Serbian Republic there just like it did in Bosnia and like it's trying to do in Kosovo. Serbs have shown throughout history that they cannot live with anyone else. Their idea of living with someone means oppressing and massacring them.
Have you ever asked yourself why we have to turn toward the east when we pray, or why the altar in our Orthodox churches is placed on the east side, or why we put icons on the east wall in our homes, or why do we bury people facing the east? These and many other questions concerning our faith arise every day. Certainly, they need an explanation.
It is not without reason or by chance that we worship toward the east. Of course, we can pray to our Almighty God everywhere and all times, and God, who is everywhere, will hear our prayers, even though we are not facing the east. However, we know that some of the attributes of God are that He is spiritual light, “and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all’(1 John 1:5), and Christ is called in the Scriptures Sun of Righteousness “But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings" (Mal 4:2).
“The sun will no more be your light by day, nor will the brightness of the moon shine on you, for the LORD will be your everlasting light, and your God will be your glory“ (Isa 60:19). Therefore, the east is the direction that must be assigned to His worship. Thus, we see that Christ is that light that comes from the east.
So called Diplomaticus should come back to this board after naming one single site in Kosovo that is on the World Heritage List and was built by Albanians.
Alternatively, finding an original name for Kosovo in Albanian language would count as well. Kosova, it appears, is just a pronunciation version of Kosovo. It means something in Serbian, but please enlighten us as to what the meaning is in Albanian.
In the meantime, it would be more fair for "Diplomaticus" to find an Albanian discussion board to write his/her "valued" opinions. He/she should decide if he/she just wants to taunt and provoke or truly give a meaningful contribution. I will never understand why is this board such a magnet for provocateurs.
As for doing the EU's bidding, how do you know that those concerned didn't simply vote the way that they truly believed was right?
(ned taylor, 24 October 2015 13:12)
=========================
Sure they did. Keep telling yourself that.
Danilo said that St. Sava church was built in the 1990s, which actually left me speechless. A pretty recent one my friend huh? Well, does its iconostasis faces Mother Teresa's tomb in Kolkata by any chance? Maybe its faces Pavelic's grave in Spain Danilo? Because Danilo, there's nothing that can prevent Hoxha's 'new man' aka Illyrian zombie from discovering bones of ancient autochthonous Illyrians everywhere in the world. Only hunger and fear can, Danilo :)
Peggy: I have never said, nor will I ever, that Russia is Serbia's puppet master. Serbia is responsible for its own actions as are Macedonia and Montenegro. I am not part of "you people", I am a free thinking individual capable of reaching my own conclusions based on evidence. You and others are free to disagree but don't be under the impression that my strings are being pulled by anyone else.
The foundations of any single Orthodox church need to be thoroughly examined and will be thoroughly examined, including those of Hagia Sofia and Saint Sava Church in Belgrade. Cause, most probably, they are hiding the relics of a catholic priest who has been preaching there long before the Slavs, and in particular the Serbs, arrived.
For example, we recently wanted to examine the foundations of an old, crumbling orthodox church in Drymades, South Albania, in order to find the bones of famed priest from Catalogna - Mr. Nilo Catalano, who wrote beautiful poems in Albanian and told them to Greeks in Drymades.
Didn't find any bones within that old ugly church which eventually crumpled under us, actually, but we are searching in other orthodox churches. Period
as I said previously, true Orthodox Churches must face West.
(Modern Day Illyrian, 24 October 2015 13:01)
Oh yeah, almost forgot. You didn't say that previously. You said:
If Deqani Monastery was originally an Eastern Orthodox church, the congregation, traditionally, must face East,
(Modern Day Illyrian, 23 October 2015 21:19)
So which one is it? East or West? You're not even consistent in your posts, If a congregation faces East, the church doors also face East because you have to enter eastward. If a "true" Orthodox church faces West, but the congregation faces east, they're looking towards the door, not the altar. Not only does this not make sense, it doesn't fit with the Google image you didn't look at.
Maybe you were drunk and dizzy when you visited one of the churches and couldn't figure out which end was what. Maybe someone played a joke on you and you believed it. Whatever your condition at the time, your argument, just like your directions, are contradictory.
Diplomaticus : “Out of 15 churches built by Milutin in 14th Century, only 3 were in Kosovo, while the rest was in Mount Athos, Thessaloniki, Constantinople and Jerusalem. Are these Serb places too according to you logic?”
You surprised me with your awareness of couple of things that are not accepted on this forum. Yet I have to return some of your own words : “ What do you people know of history?! Your brains have been washed and dried once too many times to distinguish facts from fiction.”
Say Milutin sounds as Serbian as Russian. So if what you say about 15 churches built was true there was no surprise that some of them were built in current Greece and some in Constantinople. Because the whole world belonged to one single empire and all were subjects to it. No matter if Milutin was a proto-Russian or a proto-Serb he was a subject too. It was a multinational empire where Slavs dominated while Christianity called Greek Belief was the official religion so it was no surprising that churches were built everywhere.
As you must know the first Greek state in the history appeared in 19 century and so was Serbia, Bulgaria ect. Before 19 century none of the Balkan countries had ever enjoyed it own statehood even 1 day. This I can prove. Even the nations on the Balkans were formed in 18-20 centuries. So you cannot tell this was Serbian and that was Greek. All were of the Horde and later of the Ottomans.
Hail Diplomaticus,who used to go by the name of Fungus.Yes he/she's still at it,keeping themself in the dark and feeding off bullshit Tell us some more fairy stories why don't you. You'll be telling us next that black is white or white is black. No-one with any knowledge of history is going to swallow that culpable attempt at revisionism. Probably won't stop you trying though eh?
p.s. The link you provide is in the Albanian language, further calling into question your pathetic retort.
(Modern Day Illyrian, 24 October 2015 13:01)
LOL the link I provided was Google maps. It was in Albanian because your browser most likely opens up to Albanian. Moron.
Orthodox Churches all face east. Where did you ever get the dumb idea "true" Orthodox churches face West? It's bad enough you make stuff up as you go along. What's worse is that you compound your stupidity by actually believing what you think as factual truth. Thanks for proving to me how clueless you are, both with historical evidence and with using a computer. It's good to know centuries of historical evidence and research have all be debunked by one Albanian troll on the Internet.
but the one on the front was bolted and we entered the church on the side door!? Father Sava said that builders made a mistake with this door but left as is , and they open the new door according to orthodox tradition. It was a big lie, and to this day Serbs are living in dreams.
(the truth, 23 October 2015 17:25)
Actual truth, Get yourself a compass and go to Decani and see for yourself that the congregation faces east, not the entrance to the church.
(Bogus Roteous, 25 October 2015 17:16)
You mean the direction they're supposed to face? Thanks for pointing out what I've been saying all along and thus confirming my original point.
Greener pastures like Serbia!? Amerivans already have enough of your 'greens' down at Baltimore.
(dontmakemelaughpeggy, 25 October 2015 20:05)
=====================
I never said that the US will find greener pastures in Serbia. I just said that it is greener pastures but now that you mentioned it, Serbia is definitely a greener pasture in comparison to "KosovA".
Peggy: I don't know why they voted how they did, but that's the point; neither do you. Why is it that when people do or say something that is in Serbia's interests they are fine, noble upstanding people but when the opposite applies they are puppets of the West who don't know their own minds?
==================
I believe you already asked that and I already answered it.
So again, that's how it works. When someone votes against Serbia you people proclaim that it was democracy at work and when someone supports Serbia you proclaim it's Russia's influence.
When we say that about the US (which is really evident) you come up with this question.
Hopefully you accept it this time.
ned taylor : don't be under the impression that my strings are being pulled by anyone else.
It reminds me the old anecdote :
- Who is he ?
- Joe the elusive.
- And why is he elusive ?
- Because nobody cares about him.
Same with you Joe who cares of your strings or strips ! You are free as the wind to pretend objectiveness covering your Serbophobia and Russophobia. Thanks God you can change nothing because СОБАКА ЛАЕТ, А КАРАВАН ИДЕТ !
"One is about kicking a ball, the other is about Decani (monastery)," Dacic said, in reference to the medieval holy place of the Serbian Orthodox Church (SPC).
Deqani Monastery was a catholic church built by Albanians. About 10 years ago, I was there with UNMIK Officials and I asked father Sava aka Abbot Sava now, why are two doors to enter the church, but the one on the front was bolted and we entered the church on the side door!? Father Sava said that builders made a mistake with this door but left as is , and they open the new door according to orthodox tradition. It was a big lie, and to this day Serbs are living in dreams. Go to Monastery and check the doors, which I am talking about.
We keep FYROM alive by keeping the border open, I bet greeks would vote for it too, if we closed it. Why is it for serbs so hard to believe that we only have eachother to rely on. Close the border as a counter move and see how FYROM likes to be another Kosovo. Montenegro should face sanctions for this.
Deqani Monastery was a catholic church built by Albanians.
(the truth, 23 October 2015 17:25)
Change your username to "lies" because that's all you ever write around here. You never went to Decani, you never met Fr. Sava, and that story never existed outside your imagination.
Whilst I accept that Dacic is unhappy, his reaction is that of a spoilt child. He is already planning to vote against Macedonia and Montenegro in the future irrespective of the merits of whatever it is that will be voted upon. If you are going to get upset about something make it an issue that is critical to Serbia, not a side issue. While people like Dacic hold the levers of power I'm afraid that it will e very slow progress indeed. He is supposed to be a diplomat not a schoolyard bully.
the truth : Deqani Monastery was a catholic church built by Albanians. … why are two doors to enter !?
Visoki Decani is monastery but not a church. It also could not belong to the Shiptars because it was built at least 250-300 years before the first nations started to form in the 17-18 centuries. It also could not be Catholic as well. First because it was built before Pope Nikolas V has established the Catholic Church in mid 15-th century. Second because Catholics were the mortal enemies of the Ottomans since 17 century and the monastery would have zero chance to survive. Otherwise it could survive only as an Orthodox Monastery because before 1702 were all buried as Orthodox Christians either in St.Sophie Chrich of Istanbul or their family church in Adrianople now Erdine. Also the Shqiptars like their neighbors were formed as nations only after they set free from the Osmans in 19 century. So churches and monasteries could belong to you too if you lived in the nearby and if you were Orthodox Christians but not because of Shqiptarity. Only 3 peoples still have the Komnin Dynasty's two head shqiptar symbol on their flag today ! Komnins and the Rurikovici were one dynasty and Jesus belonged to it … Read about Andronicus I Komnin and Andrey Bogolubsky. You can see his family tree (Drevo Ieseevo) on Visoki Decani Monatery’s walls. Everybody painted there was Rurikovic = Komnin. As for the second door it means nothing and proves nothing – forget about it.
The foundations of any single Orthodox church need to be thoroughly examined and will be thoroughly examined, including those of Hagia Sofia and Saint Sava Church in Belgrade. Cause, most probably, they are hiding the relics of a catholic priest who has been preaching there long before the Slavs, and in particular the Serbs, arrived.
For example, we recently wanted to examine the foundations of an old, crumbling orthodox church in Drymades, South Albania, in order to find the bones of famed priest from Catalogna - Mr. Nilo Catalano, who wrote beautiful poems in Albanian and told them to Greeks in Drymades.
Didn't find any bones within that old ugly church which eventually crumpled under us, actually, but we are searching in other orthodox churches. Period
Ned Taylor said:
Whilst I accept that Dacic is unhappy, his reaction is that of a spoilt child. He is already planning to vote against Macedonia and Montenegro in the future irrespective of the merits of whatever it is that will be voted upon.
=====================
Why not, that's what they are doing. They know it's wrong but still vote according to EU wishes.
Deqani Monastery was a catholic church built by Albanians.
(the truth, 23 October 2015 17:25)
You know, I blame Tito more than I blame Hoxha for this assault on intelligence. It's one thing for Hoxha to push historical revisionism in that isolated little North Korean-esque state of his for so long, but Tito and other Yugoslav officials were so damn lazy in supporting education for Kosovo Albanians they simply allowed for the importation of schoolbooks from Tirana to function in place of actual (and factual) education, which is why we get crap like this believed among their generational offshoots.
Monastery of Visoki Decani is a real treasure of the Orthodox Christianity! Not only because it is dated 1348-50 but because it is one of the few places where Древо Иесcеево has survived. Out of 12 old churches where Jesus’ family tree is painted directly on the walls 6 are in Serbia. They also are: Sopocani (1265) and Zhica (1220, renewed in 1316) monasteries and in St Ahillia in Arilje church (1296), Bogoridici v Leviski in Prizren (1310). Also Древо Иесcеево is still alive on the outside walls of Studenice Monastry and two Russian churches including Blagoveshensky Sobor of Moscow Kremlin. Outside Serbia and Russia there are only 5-6 more places where the Rurikovici family tree of the Savior is exposed. They are the famous churches of St. Sophia (Trebizond), Saint Mary (Thessaloniki), in Kinzvisi and Safari (both Georgia), Saint Mary in Castoria (Greece). In Moscow Kremlin we have the real family tree of Jesus starting from David Rosteslavsky. The West would give much to destroy all those artefacts to show Jesus a Jew. They have cleaned this most important part of the Drevo in the West. I mean the real life ancestors of Jesus exposed as tree branches with leafs or as doves only. But original Drevo Ieseevo must contain portraits of at least 7 ancestors of Jesus (since David Rosteslavsky) of the Rurikovici Dynasty. All mentioned above Serbian churches and monasteries have them so we cannot trust the treasures to any western puppets even if some of them are true Christians.
Deqani Monastery was a catholic church built by Albanians. About 10 years ago, I was there with UNMIK Officials and I asked father Sava aka Abbot Sava now, why are two doors to enter the church, but the one on the front was bolted and we entered the church on the side door!? Father Sava said that builders made a mistake with this door but left as is , and they open the new door according to orthodox tradition. It was a big lie, and to this day Serbs are living in dreams. Go to Monastery and check the doors, which I am talking about.
(the truth, 23 October 2015 17:25)
The Truth,
You seem to be the only one on this page that knows the facts. If Deqani Monastery was originally an Eastern Orthodox church, the congregation, traditionally, must face East, this is not the case at this monastery. In Catholic churches this need not be the case. The front doors in Orthodox churches must face West as must the Iconostasis, the congregation faces the Iconostasis, therefore, they must face East. This monastery could not have originally been Orthodox, but Catholic and built by Albanians. I know this because I am an Eastern Orthodox Albanian. Father Sava must be aware of this fact. Unfortunately, the only conclusion one may draw is he is trying to deceive those that ask questions concerning the placement of the front doors of the church. Very sad indeed, coming from a man of the church.
If Deqani [sic] Monastery was originally an Eastern Orthodox church, the congregation, traditionally, must face East, this is not the case at this monastery. In Catholic churches this need not be the case. The front doors in Orthodox churches must face West as must the Iconostasis, the congregation faces the Iconostasis, therefore, they must face East.
(Modern Day Illyrian, 23 October 2015 21:19)
Type in "Visoki Decani" in Google maps and you'll see it's built facing East.
Nice try attempting to distort reality. Nice try also trying to argue something no historical source of any nationality or time frame confirms.
Finally, nice try "the truth" attempting to write as someone else to give the impression you have supporters.
Are all you modern day Illyrians as gullible and simple-minded as you were a century ago or are you deliberately trying to sound foolish? It's one thing not to have any history of your own for the rest of the world to care about. It's something else to deliberately and carelessly steal history of others and claim it as your own, thinking people will believe you. This is especially true when you people have tried to destroy the very monasteries you claim were yours. Try to at least be consistent in your perversions.
If Dacic was a true Serb and not merely a Titoist then his words might have some significance. However the Montenegrins and Macedonians know who Dacic is and know that Serbia will not dare do anything to them, so they are free to vote against Serbian interests without fear.
Montenegro joined anti-Russian sanctions (Macedonia hasn't yet been so stupid) and Russia has retaliated with anti-Montenegrin sanctions. These sanctions will include massive reductions in the number of Russian tourists and little or no future Russian investment. The cost of these stupid, unjust, and ineffectual EU-inspired sanctions will be very significant for Montenegrins. Pretty soon the Montenegrins will unilaterally renounce these sanctions, but the Russians won't forgive them. As long as Djukanovic and his criminal gang remain in power, then Russia will make Montenegro suffer.
A true Serb would do as the Russians do. Montenegro and Macedonia could be squeezed so hard that they would weep. But that will not happen. Dacic is made of the same rotten stuff as Djukanovic and the Macedonian President, whoever he may be.
UNESCO is about education, science and culture, not mythology and national-socialist trash, comrade Dacic!
Montenegro and Macedonia have their own national interests and are not interested about you politics of internal consumption. What would Serbia do without the railway to Bar? What about Corridor 10? Hungary already built a fence north, so stop burning bridges with all of your neighbors because geography is what it is and you cannot be transplanted to Mother Russia where your hoards came from, unfortunately.
You still clam the churches and monasteries of Macedonia, though there are no Serbs there!
Serb prices built churches for their Christian subjects in all the lands they conquered, not a particular nation, because the notion of nationalism simply did not exist! They also built in Greece and Jerusalem, so what (!), are they Serb lands as well?! Did you not know that for 500 years the keys of the churches and monasteries where held by Albanian families who had swore to defend them with blood, even after converting to Islam?
Out of 15 churches built by Milutin in 14th Century, only 3 were in Kosovo, while the rest was in Mount Athos, Thessaloniki, Constantinople and Jerusalem. Are these Serb places too according to you logic?
What do you people know of history?! Your brains have been washed and dried once too many times to distinguish facts from fiction.
Deqani Monastery was a catholic church built by Albanians.
(the truth, 23 October 2015 17:25)
The Decani architecture and frescoes are distinctly in the tradition of Orthodox churches, if it was Catholic, than all the Bulgarian, Greek , Romanian and Russian churches were built by Catholics as well?
If you are so interested in the history of the Decani Church, why didn't you ask Father Sava on why that door exists?
However, to your point, the Agia Sophia was converted into a Mosque as well as other churches in Constantinople after the Byzantine Empire fell to the Turks in the 13th century.
Diplomaticus : “Out of 15 churches built by Milutin in 14th Century, only 3 were in Kosovo, while the rest was in Mount Athos, Thessaloniki, Constantinople and Jerusalem. Are these Serb places too according to you logic?”
You surprised me with your awareness of couple of things that are not accepted on this forum. Yet I have to return some of your own words : “ What do you people know of history?! Your brains have been washed and dried once too many times to distinguish facts from fiction.”
Say Milutin sounds as Serbian as Russian. So if what you say about 15 churches built was true there was no surprise that some of them were built in current Greece and some in Constantinople. Because the whole world belonged to one single empire and all were subjects to it. No matter if Milutin was a proto-Russian or a proto-Serb he was a subject too. It was a multinational empire where Slavs dominated while Christianity called Greek Belief was the official religion so it was no surprising that churches were built everywhere.
As you must know the first Greek state in the history appeared in 19 century and so was Serbia, Bulgaria ect. Before 19 century none of the Balkan countries had ever enjoyed it own statehood even 1 day. This I can prove. Even the nations on the Balkans were formed in 18-20 centuries. So you cannot tell this was Serbian and that was Greek. All were of the Horde and later of the Ottomans.
As for doing the EU's bidding, how do you know that those concerned didn't simply vote the way that they truly believed was right?
(ned taylor, 24 October 2015 13:12)
=========================
Sure they did. Keep telling yourself that.
3. When somebody supports Serbia's positions that somebody becomes principled, independent, etc etc... But when somebody does not support Serbia's positions, that somebody becomes unprincipled, servant of the evil EU, Yankees and bla bla bla. That's not how the world works
============================
That's exactly how the world works but let's wait and see how you think once the US abandons you and goes after greener pastures which don't go you way. Watch your support drop off. You will be saying the exact same thing too. Ooops, you already do. You say that Russia and China are doing the same thing as the US i.e. using and pressuring smaller countries.
close the border with Macedonia leave all refugees there. let the eu see how those imbeciles cope. serbia does not need the EU. Vucic needs to grow a pair and say enough is enough. kosovo is Serbia that is final.
Peggy: I don't know why they voted how they did, but that's the point; neither do you. Why is it that when people do or say something that is in Serbia's interests they are fine, noble upstanding people but when the opposite applies they are puppets of the West who don't know their own minds?
==================
I believe you already asked that and I already answered it.
So again, that's how it works. When someone votes against Serbia you people proclaim that it was democracy at work and when someone supports Serbia you proclaim it's Russia's influence.
When we say that about the US (which is really evident) you come up with this question.
Hopefully you accept it this time.
Greener pastures like Serbia!? Amerivans already have enough of your 'greens' down at Baltimore.
(dontmakemelaughpeggy, 25 October 2015 20:05)
=====================
I never said that the US will find greener pastures in Serbia. I just said that it is greener pastures but now that you mentioned it, Serbia is definitely a greener pasture in comparison to "KosovA".
Change your username to "lies" because that's all you ever write around here. You never went to Decani, you never met Fr. Sava, and that story never existed outside your imagination.
(the actual truth, 23 October 2015 17:51...
Actually the Decan Monastery was guarded by Albanians for generations.
Rustemi,Sokoli,Aliu and Smaja still are being honored by Serbian Orthodox Church as loyal guardians of Decani.
Also the Monastery was build in a land which was owned by an Albanian who later become guardian of the monastery.
In the other words, what I am saying is that Serbia is not worried about 3-4 monasteries but it is worried that membership in UNESCO will empower Kosovo's ambitions to UN.
The monasteries have been there for 1000 years and during this time Kosovo has been ruled by Serbs and Albanians.
If Albanians wanted to demolished those monasteries they would have done long time ago, not waiting for 2015.
But this struggle it looks that it is over.
Albanian ambassador in UNESCO Besiana Kadare claimed yesterday that Kosovo has more then enough votes to become e member.
She is a very credible person.
Also it never have happened in UN history that General Assembly to vote down a recommendation of Board of UNESCO.
Dacic please! You withdraw ambassadors from Macedonia and Montenegro only to let them return one month later. Still montenegrins can use all benefits in Serbia while serbs are considered foreigners In Montenegro. Dacic, Vucic and others in the government are idiots and traitors.
Ned Taylor said:
Whilst I accept that Dacic is unhappy, his reaction is that of a spoilt child. He is already planning to vote against Macedonia and Montenegro in the future irrespective of the merits of whatever it is that will be voted upon.
===…==
Why not, that's what they are doing. They know it's wrong but still vote according to EU wishes.
(Peggy, 24 October 2015 00:18)
1. Assuming that Macedonia and Montenegro are so unprincipled as you say, you are also saying that Serbia is the same
2. Just because you do not like it, does not make it wrong. Nobody has appointed you as the global authority on morality
3. When somebody supports Serbia's positions that somebody becomes principled, independent, etc etc... But when somebody does not support Serbia's positions, that somebody becomes unprincipled, servant of the evil EU, Yankees and bla bla bla. That's not how the world works and it's no suprise that Serbia keeps loosing and loosing because it treats other countries as children who are not capable of making decisions on their own according to their own (not Serbia's) interests. I understand that Serbia might think of itself as being the master of the universe, but other countries don't like being taught by an insignificant country like Serbia what's principled vs unprincipled or right vs wrong.
I'll tell you why not Peggy. Because it's easy to act childishly but much harder and honourable to rise above these situations and do the right thing. Tit for tat gets no-one anywhere and just perpetuates the circle of despair. Why doesn't Serbia show itself to be a true leader capable of ignoring petty frustrations and concentrating on doing what is best for the region as a whole? As for doing the EU's bidding, how do you know that those concerned didn't simply vote the way that they truly believed was right?
but the one on the front was bolted and we entered the church on the side door!? Father Sava said that builders made a mistake with this door but left as is , and they open the new door according to orthodox tradition. It was a big lie, and to this day Serbs are living in dreams.
(the truth, 23 October 2015 17:25)
So called Diplomaticus should come back to this board after naming one single site in Kosovo that is on the World Heritage List and was built by Albanians.
Alternatively, finding an original name for Kosovo in Albanian language would count as well. Kosova, it appears, is just a pronunciation version of Kosovo. It means something in Serbian, but please enlighten us as to what the meaning is in Albanian.
In the meantime, it would be more fair for "Diplomaticus" to find an Albanian discussion board to write his/her "valued" opinions. He/she should decide if he/she just wants to taunt and provoke or truly give a meaningful contribution. I will never understand why is this board such a magnet for provocateurs.
Serbia threatening its neighbors one more time after butchering them for centuries. One of Serbia's neighbors (Montenegro) is paying right now. Serbia wants to create another Serbian Republic there just like it did in Bosnia and like it's trying to do in Kosovo. Serbs have shown throughout history that they cannot live with anyone else. Their idea of living with someone means oppressing and massacring them.
ned taylor : don't be under the impression that my strings are being pulled by anyone else.
It reminds me the old anecdote :
- Who is he ?
- Joe the elusive.
- And why is he elusive ?
- Because nobody cares about him.
Same with you Joe who cares of your strings or strips ! You are free as the wind to pretend objectiveness covering your Serbophobia and Russophobia. Thanks God you can change nothing because СОБАКА ЛАЕТ, А КАРАВАН ИДЕТ !
Albanians are government coalition in Macedonia and make up 30% of her population.
Djukanovic in Montenegro has been in coalition with Albanians for years too.If Albanians leave the coalition in Montenegro Djukanovic will be not PM anymore.
So why those two countries will vote against Kosovo?
The front doors in Orthodox churches must face West as must the Iconostasis, the congregation faces the Iconostasis, therefore, they must face East.
(Modern Day Illyrian, 23 October 2015 21:19)
Type in "Visoki Decani" in Google maps and you'll see it's built facing East.
(the actual truth, 24 October 2015 00:40)
Thank you for proving my point, as I said previously, true Orthodox Churches must face West. You're trying too hard; you've been hoisted by your own petard. Now then, don't you feel foolish!
p.s. The link you provide is in the Albanian language, further calling into question your pathetic retort.
Hail Diplomaticus,who used to go by the name of Fungus.Yes he/she's still at it,keeping themself in the dark and feeding off bullshit Tell us some more fairy stories why don't you. You'll be telling us next that black is white or white is black. No-one with any knowledge of history is going to swallow that culpable attempt at revisionism. Probably won't stop you trying though eh?
Peggy: I don't know why they voted how they did, but that's the point; neither do you. Why is it that when people do or say something that is in Serbia's interests they are fine, noble upstanding people but when the opposite applies they are puppets of the West who don't know their own minds?
as I said previously, true Orthodox Churches must face West.
(Modern Day Illyrian, 24 October 2015 13:01)
Oh yeah, almost forgot. You didn't say that previously. You said:
If Deqani Monastery was originally an Eastern Orthodox church, the congregation, traditionally, must face East,
(Modern Day Illyrian, 23 October 2015 21:19)
So which one is it? East or West? You're not even consistent in your posts, If a congregation faces East, the church doors also face East because you have to enter eastward. If a "true" Orthodox church faces West, but the congregation faces east, they're looking towards the door, not the altar. Not only does this not make sense, it doesn't fit with the Google image you didn't look at.
Maybe you were drunk and dizzy when you visited one of the churches and couldn't figure out which end was what. Maybe someone played a joke on you and you believed it. Whatever your condition at the time, your argument, just like your directions, are contradictory.
Danilo said that St. Sava church was built in the 1990s, which actually left me speechless. A pretty recent one my friend huh? Well, does its iconostasis faces Mother Teresa's tomb in Kolkata by any chance? Maybe its faces Pavelic's grave in Spain Danilo? Because Danilo, there's nothing that can prevent Hoxha's 'new man' aka Illyrian zombie from discovering bones of ancient autochthonous Illyrians everywhere in the world. Only hunger and fear can, Danilo :)
Actual truth, Get yourself a compass and go to Decani and see for yourself that the congregation faces east, not the entrance to the church.
(Bogus Roteous, 25 October 2015 17:16)
You mean the direction they're supposed to face? Thanks for pointing out what I've been saying all along and thus confirming my original point.
(showgoeson, 24 October 2015 20:12)
I don't think I ever heard of such an idiotic post. Serbia or xenophobic Serbs have been the ONLY people to date to be able to suggest sites in Kosovo for listing on the World Heritage sites. Do you see yourself as a member of that class ever listing something Albanian there? If you say yes I suggest your reread your post.
As far as the origin of the name Kosovo, who cares?
I could care less who was on the land 2 million or 1000 years ago. The people who own and work the land in the present are the ones who should be able to determine who governs it.
The amazing thing I have found is people such as you who claim everything in Kosovo is Serbian, and it was under Serbia's control as far as police and military and government but yet claim that the Albanians cleansed the Serbs from there. The truth is Serbs did not want to live there with Albanians they voluntarily left the land. Even the ones who left after 1999 had means to return to their land but they choose not to because Milosevic destroyed every chance for a decent life in Kosovo for many years to come.
3. When somebody supports Serbia's positions that somebody becomes principled, independent, etc etc... But when somebody does not support Serbia's positions, that somebody becomes unprincipled, servant of the evil EU, Yankees and bla bla bla. That's not how the world works
===…==
That's exactly how the world works
(Peggy, 25 October 2015 02:53)
Hahaha.... So Serbia's positions are always principled according to you!!! Dear, the logic that you use in your posts is usually that of somebody with elementary school education, at best :)
----------
but let's wait and see how you think once the US abandons you and goes after greener pastures which don't go you way. Watch your support drop off.
(Peggy, 25 October 2015 02:53)
I think, by "you" you mean "Kosovo" because I personally don't depend on US' support or lack thereof :)
So, assuming you were referring to Kosovo, of course, as I've already said the US supported Kosovo's independence because it was cheaper and easier than forcing 2M people in Kosovo live under Serbia. It had nothing to do with principles. When the US stops supporting Kosovo, I'll say that the US's interests are different from Kosovo since international relations are all based in interests. I've not that naive to believe in principled or unprincipled BS.
Peggy: I have never said, nor will I ever, that Russia is Serbia's puppet master. Serbia is responsible for its own actions as are Macedonia and Montenegro. I am not part of "you people", I am a free thinking individual capable of reaching my own conclusions based on evidence. You and others are free to disagree but don't be under the impression that my strings are being pulled by anyone else.
p.s. The link you provide is in the Albanian language, further calling into question your pathetic retort.
(Modern Day Illyrian, 24 October 2015 13:01)
LOL the link I provided was Google maps. It was in Albanian because your browser most likely opens up to Albanian. Moron.
Orthodox Churches all face east. Where did you ever get the dumb idea "true" Orthodox churches face West? It's bad enough you make stuff up as you go along. What's worse is that you compound your stupidity by actually believing what you think as factual truth. Thanks for proving to me how clueless you are, both with historical evidence and with using a computer. It's good to know centuries of historical evidence and research have all be debunked by one Albanian troll on the Internet.
St. Sava Church was built in the 1990s
(Danilo, 24 October 2015 17:56)
Plans to build St. Sava Temple began in the late 19th century in remembrance of what is believed to be the site the Ottoman Turks burned the remains of the Saint.
Construction began sometime in the 1930s and stopped with the German bombing of Belgrade. Sometime after Tito died permission was given to continue construction.
Have you ever asked yourself why we have to turn toward the east when we pray, or why the altar in our Orthodox churches is placed on the east side, or why we put icons on the east wall in our homes, or why do we bury people facing the east? These and many other questions concerning our faith arise every day. Certainly, they need an explanation.
It is not without reason or by chance that we worship toward the east. Of course, we can pray to our Almighty God everywhere and all times, and God, who is everywhere, will hear our prayers, even though we are not facing the east. However, we know that some of the attributes of God are that He is spiritual light, “and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all’(1 John 1:5), and Christ is called in the Scriptures Sun of Righteousness “But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings" (Mal 4:2).
“The sun will no more be your light by day, nor will the brightness of the moon shine on you, for the LORD will be your everlasting light, and your God will be your glory“ (Isa 60:19). Therefore, the east is the direction that must be assigned to His worship. Thus, we see that Christ is that light that comes from the east.
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