"We won't budge an inch before Croatia becomes reasonable"

We in the West are sorry that Croatia and Serbia are arguing caused by the migrant crisis. We are also confused. It is reported that Croatia banned commercial vehicles crossing their border in retaliation for Serbia banning Croatian commercial vehicles crossing their border earlier on. We also do not understand why Serbia allows thousands of migrants to cross their country from Macedonia and Greece. Hungary has stopped migrants entering and Croatia does not want thousands of migrants. What is Serbia doing to stop migrants at their borders.

Janet,

Your posting seems to suggest that any transit country has the power to curtail the flow of refugees towards the EU which i think is very simplistic.The main actors on the refugee/migrant problem are Turkey and Germany. Erdogan has threatened the EU few times that he's going to flood it with R/M. Refugees have found a safe heaven in Turkey who is paid by the UN/EU to look after them yet the Turks are fully complicit in letting the flood out of their camps and at the same time being complicit in fomenting the war in Syria as a key policy of the Turks neo-Ottoman agenda with the EU refugee crisis as a gates of Vienna 2.0.
The view usually being published about Germany is the one that the government under Merkel has set as an agenda. In this, she is supported by those media forces that helped her reach power, not least the Springer and the Bertelsmann families that own most of Germany's newspaper, magazines, TV and radio channels.Merkel's own agenda is the dilution of ethnicity by importing millions of third world citizens not only in Germany but the rest of the EU in order to create -in all but name-German empire and control it more easily.Merkel couldn't import all these people legally into Ger/EU at a time that the EU counts more than 32m unemployed so she had to create a humanitarian crisis in order to mask her real intentions.It suffices to say that only last week the German F/M on a visit in Turkey praised the Turks for handling the crisis.

It suffices to say that only last week the German F/M on a visit in Turkey praised the Turks for handling the crisis.
(Leonidas, 25 September 2015 16:16

And agree to hand Erdogan over a billion Euros, no strings attached. Insane.

It suffices to say that only last week the German F/M on a visit in Turkey praised the Turks for handling the crisis.
(Leonidas, 25 September 2015 16:16

And agree to hand Erdogan over a billion Euros, no strings attached. Insane.
(Ari Gold, 25 September 2015 16:23)

Ari,
It's always about money with you that someone is receiving, but not poor little Serbia. You are green with envy and can't contain yourself. Try tending your own garden and stop looking to see what others are getting. You should change your name to Ari Green.

So where is Lenny and other Croats thumping their chests with Albo's cheering them on? LOL! The EU went against a member in favour of common sense.

There are two reasons why you should never get into a wrestling match with a pig.

1. You are both going to get dirty.
2. The pig loves it.

What ancient Greece do you mean ? Is that the Ottoman buildings exposed as Parthenon with Mariam Mosque inside and minarets seen on early 19 century pictures ?
I knew that Mariam mosque-one of the world'd largest-is located in US and not in Greece let alone inside Parthenon.http://nypost.com/2014/01/26/the-secret-history-of-the-parthenon/
E1_ieQ%3D&ved=0CCkQyjdqFQoTCJjsj7vPmcgCFQGhGgodyLIBFw&ei=2yMJVtiSHoHCasjlhrgB#imgrc=Iao2WuJ5EszmRM%3A&usg=__phR3-ZE_bWC0z55YK5SNBE1_ieQ%3D
Iam not surprised at all by your claims with regards to Colosseum or the Pyramids or even the great of china that all were built recently.But seriously have you ever thought how long does it takes and what resources to built a wall which is 21500km long x5mx9m with 10000 watchtowers 9 metres high? But then again ,for Fomenko and his followers the Tang Dynasty of China, a high point of Chinese culture and political power is an invention, a classic "golden age" myth. The only thing Fomenko refuses to say is how Skalinger from medieval Europe convinced the Chinese to create a fake dynasty complete with bogus archives ( nearly 10million documents).
Bottom line Rote is the Great Horde is a figment of your imagination-it has never existed.History of ancient or medieval Russia prior to 16th century= zero.There is ample evidence in the Balkan countries of the existence of Byzantine empire (churches,ecclesiastical liturgy etc)and the Ottomans (mosques.bazaars,turkish baths etc)but nothing Russian.

Leonidas- I think you are being too hard on the Germans and that there is a whiff of conspiracy theory about what you have written. The Germans as a country have given the impression that they are happy to welcome large numbers of refugees and that this isn't simply a top down policy being forced on the masses. I find it hard to believe that Mrs Merkel is attempting a "dilution of ethnicity" as you put it. There are many difficulties created by the sudden influx of hundreds of thousands of people of a minority ethnicity and although Germany has shown itself willing to deal with such problems I cannot see any evidence that they have manufactured this situation. Where I would criticise Angela is the impression she gave a few weeks ago that refugees could travel to whichever destination country they wanted. This is in direct contradiction of the recently agreed sharing out of refugees which will inevitably mean that many are sent to countries to which they do not want to go. Clearly they should not be in a position to pick and choose by Mrs Merkel very clearly gave that impression.

ned taylor
There are a number of factors which led me to believe that the present "humanitarian" crisis was manufactured in order to facilitate islamic(mainly)immigration into EU through the back door.Firstly, madame Merkel is on record few times saying multiculturalism in Germany has been a total failure because of the muslim immigrants unwillingness to integrate.So,why is she insisting of repeating the same insanity and expecting different results this time?Secondly,having decided what to do Merkel goes lecturing other EU leaders about what 'must' be done insisting on a PERMANENT future formulas for admitting refugees.Holland, the side kick of Merkel, demanded for Hungary to leave the EU if it didn't do as told by the Supreme Being (Merkel if you don't get me.)The Eastern Europeans especially don't want these people, and nor do the migrants want Eastern Europe.Thirdly, an OECD report says that the EU will admit as many as 50mil r/m by 2050.Globalization through the back door.
I do not mind if every German family adopts a Fluechtlinge, good for them, if that is what the Germans really want and need in order to deal with their shameful past and to regain a modicum of self-respect. But the German government and Western media elite cannot tell everyone what is the right thing to do. We in Europe recognize good old German imperialism, the Drang nach Osten, even if it is dressed in globalist neconservative rags.

rote

I've never claimed that world history has been written accurately for various reasons.Literacy levels in ancient were nearly non-existent and therefore various events were recorded by eyewitnesses and edited at later dates.However,a flawed world history is not equal to conspiracy theories of Fomenko .I have exchanged with you in the past on your assertions and in fact I did send you three postings of 4500 words in total outlining specific points of Fomenko’s pseudo-history which you’ve failed to answer.Fomenko is cherry-picking as far as his pseudo-analysis is concerned.He uses Ptolemy’s almagest to describe terrestrial events which coincided with certain events on earthbut refuses to use his eyewitness historical account of his life as a general of Alexander the Great.Why? Because Ptolemy’s chronology and the description of events is totally different of Fomenko’s.
You keep writing about the Ottomans but I have a strong feeling that you’ve never read the recorded Ottoman history which is anathema to Fomenko .Had you read it you’ll see that it’s so detailed not only of what ethnicities lived within the empire but also what form of taxes were collected by the authorities.Do you know the father of the Ottomans Suleyman Shah was buried in Syria in 1238? Under the Treaty of Lausanne (1923)the tomb site at castle Qal'at Ja'bar remained the property of Turkey and still guarded by a Turkish regiment. According to you the Turks must guarding a Russian Ceasar.

Leonidas : “fomenting the war in Syria as a key policy of the Turks neo-Ottoman agenda”

Strange as it is but I know no one who loves the Ottomans :

1/ The Greeks hate them at least for two reasons – because due to the British influence and the increased debts of the Ottomans they massacred the Christians several times in 19 century. Also because as soon as Greece obtained independence in 1813 it was seized by the masters of the world the Oldenburgs who constructed the history and thus the mentality of the Greeks.

2/ Same with the Armenians who were massacred twice – in early 19 and early 20 centuries.

3/ Russians as we conducted about 15 wars against the “turks” all because the Oldenburgs ruled Russia since 1700. They replaced the Romanovs who ruled about 85 years in 17 century but they left Romanovs’ family name as a cover.

4/ Balkan peoples who survived thanks to the Ottomans during 150 years of Reformation wars that cleaned Europe and during Inquisition of 16-17 centuries also hate “the Turks” as they were set free and got influence of either Russia or Britain or Germany – all ruled by the Oldenburgs. So they were imposed the history they believe like fanatics now.

Leonidas : “father of the Ottomans Suleyman Shah was buried in Syria in 1238? … and still guarded by a Turkish regiment. According to you the Turks must guarding a Russian Ceasar.”


part-1

You have a very slight knowledge of Fomenko’s history. Anyway you mentioned some facts we can talk about. As far as I know the tomb you are talking about belonged to the famous Salahuddin and 90 Turkish soldiers were guarding it until resent. But if I am not mistaken they have abandoned this place last year, maybe with the dead body. According to Scaliger history Salahuddin was a Kurd but it means nothing as Kurds were Horde’s army deployed there. If under Suleyman Shah you mean Suleiman the Great (Qanuni) then you use incorrect terminology because since mid-15 century they called themselves Padishahs and spoke Russian. And you also use wrong chronology as father of Suleiman Qanuni was Selim I who died and was buried in 1520 in Edirne (Adrianopole) inhabited only by the Greeks and the Bulgars then. As you must know all famous Sultans (Padishahs) were Orthodox Christians so before 1702 all of them were buried in churches (St.Sophie and in Erdine) later reconstructed into mosques. They had Russian appearance and spoke Russian before 18 century. To know all this you don’t need Fomenko.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Sultans_of_the_Ottoman_Dynasty.jpg

Leonidas :

Part-2

To know all this you don’t need Fomenko. But if you mean to learn more ( What Suleiman means in Russian ? Why biographies of Solomon and Suleiman are so similar ? Why his fathe Selim was calles Grozny (Yavuz) ? What and where were his famous mines?) then you won’t move an inch without Fomenko.

2600 years that separates Suleiman and his Bible prototype Solomon are a fairy tale as before year of 572 the chronology was more or less correct. But this very year started as i572 and ended as 1572 and they call it the Gregorian reform now. Old dating lasted for about 200 years and many documents in Europe and Russia were dated as it used to be i623 (Iisus) or j712(Jesus) ect. So were signed many paintings and poems.

Our problem is that you think that Bible was written long ago while I believe that the registered history of mankind is less than 900 years. As a Greek you must have moral problems to refuse from the glory granted to you by the Oldenburgs in the 19 century. But it’s a big question if they stole or granted more of your fame. Because the Great Horde was composed of the castes and initially the Greeks were like the Brahmans of the Orthodox Church.

Yet one more question still remains – whom did they call the Greeks ? At least in Crimea Greeks were called all who belonged to the Greek/Orthodox church. So some of them could ethnically be of other origins. Our history is a fiction and it must be studied during literature lessons I think.

Leonidas FEW MORE QUESTIONS TO TEST THE PATIENCE OF B92

7/ Try to explain why none of the European Monarchs rushed to Jerusalem as soon as Napoleon “set it free” ? Why all of them kept on going to Crimea? Why was the war of 1856-57 in Crimea called as “the war for the cradle of Lord”?

8/ How can you explain that according to Abu Zeid chronologist of Mohammad the prophet and his Qureshi clan were white skins from the north ? How can you explain that the current history of Mohammad (as well as Tamerlane and many others) was written by someone who hated him?

9/ How could (as if slave Cherkessian) Mamelukes rule the whole Middle East for 600 years ?

10/How could the pharaohs leave only the cemeteries and pyramids but no evidence of their lifetime? Why so many Christian and Muslims symbols are seen there? Have you heard of the Herodotus Method that they used to calculate the age of the pyramids?

11/How could J.Scaliger in late 16 century know about the Hajj of Mohammad in 622 if none of the Europeans was allowed to the ME while in Muslims sources there are no dates?

12/How came that unlike all other religious books the Qurans were 100% similar all over the world and thousands of rewriters madee no mistakes?

13/The biggest submarine today is called Dmitry Donskoy. Why should the burial services after this Great Khan were held by a Trabesund Archbishop but not the Russian Patriarch who most likely was a Greek too?

What is Serbia doing to stop migrants at their borders.
(Janet, 25 September 2015 14:21)
-------------------------------------
The same as what Greece and Macedonia are doing...nothing. Serbia is getting the migrants in from these two countriesw (one of which is a EU member). Greece is doing nothing about getting them from Turkey and so on and so on.
Serbia is only a third country not the country of origin. Do you expect Serbia to do what EU is not even attempting to do?

LEONIDAS

5/ “pseudo-science” is what you believe in ! Please explain to me what the hell Sparta tried to seize the Athens ? Did they need money or gold ? Of course not ! Then what other reason there could be if they already had problems of depopulation and peasant riots ? Or tell me why the Greeks stopped to die between 5-11 centuries and no graves of that period can be found there ?

6/ “historian and actually travel back to the days of ancient Greece & Rome, to witness history” – what are you talking about ? What ancient Greece do you mean ? Is that the Ottoman buildings exposed as Parthenon with Mariam Mosque inside and minarets seen on early 19 century pictures ? Or is it the Coliseum copied from Constantinople Coliseum in 18 century ? Or maybe you can tell a building in Jerusalem older than 200 years ?

7/ “Scaliger is nonsense” – not quite so. He did a lot of useful job as well trying to unite several dating that existed in 16 century. But his main target was the memory of the Great Horde that he tried to kill. Yet in late 16 century the Horde still existed so nobody took him serious. And say Issak Newton wrote a good book about chronology. Yet in 17 century Petavius developed Scaliger’s theory and in 100 years it became dominant.

Leonidas if we change the tune we our dialogue can be more useful. Why not just ask me what I think of this or that ? Why not ask me to explain things through my vision of the events ect. So don’t ignore my questions.

Leonidas

8/ “Most were buried in Eyüp Sultan Cemetery.” – it’s not true at least because as they tell us it was built after 1453 so the previous Sultans could not be buried here. Second reason is that even this date is wrong as on old and very detailed French map of 1572 … http://chronologia.org/vatikan/im/v_284.jpg ... there were only few mosques in Istanbul :

• Of Selim … http://chronologia.org/vatikan/im/v_373.jpg ... http://chronologia.org/vatikan/im/v_375.jpg
• Fetihe near the Patriarchy … http://chronologia.org/vatikan/im/v_374.jpg

And all of them were built like churches because the Sultans were Orthodox Russian Bulgars i.e. Volgars ! By the way this is how your “turks” looked like … http://chronologia.org/vatikan/im/v_379.jpg ... http://chronologia.org/vatikan/im/v_378.jpg

1/ “all archeologists are also liars” – not quite so as they only find objects while historians give them names and chronology like Schliemann did with the fake Troy gold, like Efes as if found in Turkey in 1967 or Viminacium near Belgrade. Who said it was Efes or Viminacium ? Where was it written?

2/ “recorded events that place in the empire in the 9th and 10th centuries” - it’s OK if you believe that no 1000 years were added in j572 and if you believe that ancient Latin (also called Barbarian because it was based on Slavonic language) appeared earlier than 15 century and if you believe that ancient Greek is older than the medieval one. Also you must believe that there was no Ancient Rome in Alexandria moved by the Romeys to Constantinople in 11 century. And of course you must have a proof that there are some written sources other than with Egyptian pictures and characters dated 9-10 centuries.

3/ “carbon dated” – we don’t need Fomenko to doubt this form of dating. It’s not always precise.

4/“early secondary sources” – exactly! Because 99% of such sources are copies or copies of the copies. Also mind that pergament can survive 300-400 years in the ME and 150-200 in Europe. So the souces you are talking about were never seen as they were initially written as copies. They were first obtained in the middle ages like Gomer’s poems printed first in 1700 years after the described events. Meanwhile they are almost the only sources of the Troy War and Odissea.

LEONIDAS

9/ “Suleyman the great and he spoke Turkish not Russian” – not quite so because the Great Horde initially was two language Empire and most spoke both Russian (or best to say Slavonic) and proto-Turkic. I have a lot evidence of it. Say the famous “Хождение за три моря” by Afanasy Nikitin was written in Russian and “tatar” languages. What is interesting in “tatar” texts he used Arab letters while in the Russian part he used Cyrillic. Surprising is that those were different parts and never translated ! It means that both languages were widely spread. Also in the beginning he prays first in Russian and then in Arabian-Tatar … it sounds very ridiculous Господи Иисусу Христе спаси и сохрани and then in Arabic letters Bismillahi Rahman Urrahim … Also Leonidas you will be shocked to know what names Russian had in 15-16 centuries. It could be like Ivan Ahmetov, Murat Nikiforov , Davlet Semenov, Simeon Bekbulatovic ect. so things were much different from what we think now and Fomenko only reveals it. Ll his reconstructions of history are based of facts.

http://www.chronologia.org/en/how_it_was/index.html

10/ “I knew that Mariam mosque” – I know several such ones as Mariam (unlike St. Sophia) is known and respected in Islam as mother of Issa/Jesus. So most often if the Ottomans reformed such a church (of St. Maria) into a mosque they didn’t change the name. Because before 19 century the Sultans remembered of their Christian routes. I like your link but it will lead us away. But according to Fomenko before the Ottomans became Muslims the mosque was a church of (I may be mistaking) St. Athena as a reflection of St. Maria. He insist that many of the “ancient Greek gods” in fact were written before 1370 during the Royal (Family) Christianity by other members of the Komnin/Ruricovici Dynasty. Their logic was simple – if our ancestor (Jesus) was God then we too are gods … Most likely Fomenko says that all those stories were written by the ethnic Greeks who were a caste responsible for the religion in the empire.

11/ “a wall which is 21500km long x5mx9m with 10000 watchtowers 9 metres high?” – it a very simple issue. The wall is much shorter and there are several almost independent walls some of them from south to the north. It’s not a defensive construction for many reasons. Because all the loopholes look towards China and because the wall runs between the mountains that means death to the defenders. As a Greek you must know that in mountain battle the one above is the survivor. And it wasn't a big problem to build it when you have 400 million of slaves.

10/ “I knew that Mariam mosque” – I know several such ones as Mariam (unlike St. Sophia) is known and respected in Islam as mother of Issa/Jesus. So most often if the Ottomans reformed such a church (of St. Maria) into a mosque they didn’t change the name. Because before 19 century the Sultans remembered of their Christian routes. I like your link but it will lead us away. But according to Fomenko before the Ottomans became Muslims the mosque was a church of (I may be mistaking) St. Athena as a reflection of St. Maria. He insist that many of the “ancient Greek gods” in fact were written before 1370 during the Royal (Family) Christianity by other members of the Komnin/Ruricovici Dynasty. Their logic was simple – if our ancestor (Jesus) was God then we too are gods … Most likely Fomenko says that all those stories were written by the ethnic Greeks who were a caste responsible for the religion in the empire.

11/ “a wall which is 21500km long x5mx9m with 10000 watchtowers 9 metres high?” – it a very simple issue. The wall is much shorter and there are several almost independent walls some of them from south to the north. It’s not a defensive construction for many reasons. Because all the loopholes look towards China and because the wall runs between the mountains that means death to the defenders. As a Greek you must know that in mountain battle the one above is the survivor.

Leonidas few more things to drive you crazy :

Please mention that before 17-18 centuries there were no nations at all. So when I say Russians I mean Slavic peoples that already had their dialects and differences and sometimes fought each other but in general they spoke almost the same Slovensky language and acted like a united force. So the Bulgars were all – proto-Russians, proto-Serbs, Macedonians ect.

Also Armenia was somewhere among Hungary , France and Germany. last night I read something about the current Armenians (who prefer to be Haes people) and was shocked of how many famous dynasties had their routes. Say those were the Angel Dynaste that ruled Byzantine after the Komnins.

Many Russians and Serbs are proud to have the double head Eagle on their flag but they are unaware that it’s the Komnins family symbol i.e. symbol of Jesus (Andronic I Komnin) tortured to death in Jerusalem (Stanbul).

Most people also believe that the cross became the symbol of Christianity because of the crucifix of Jesus. In fact it was one of the Byzantine symbols long before and it meant the center of the world. The Komnins survived as Andronikoshvily Kniaz dynasty in Georgia. Later they became Andronikovi while their rival Angels according to Fomenko were eliminated.

Oldenburgs also have Byzantine Emperor routes but I suspect that they also belong to the Black Nobility.

On many old maps only Crete Island is marked as Greece and nowhere Jerusalem in Africa is seen.

part-1
You have a very slight knowledge of Fomenko’s history.
I know what I need to know.If he is as credible as you say his chronology hypothesis wouldn't be called a fiasco and an embarrassment for Russia by Russian academics and it wouldn't be awarded the title of ("Pochotnaya bezgramota") for the worst book published in Russia.
the tomb you are talking about belonged to the famous Salahuddin and 90 Turkish soldiers were guarding it until resent.
Not what the Ottoman archives are saying and I am more than certain that you've never set eyes upon them.
According to Scaliger history Salahuddin was a Kurd but it means nothing as Kurds were Horde’s army deployed there.
According to the Ottoman's recorded history Suleyman Shah was the father of the Ottomans.Period.
If under Suleyman Shah you mean Suleiman the Great (Qanuni) then you use incorrect terminology because since mid-15 century they called themselves Padishahs and spoke Russian.
No I don't mean Suleyman the great and he spoke Turkish not Russian. The archives go back as far as the 12th century and written in Turkish and one would expect the leader of that nation to speak the language.
And you also use wrong chronology
That's the date Ottomans have recorded and it's more credible than conspiracy theories.
all famous Sultans (Padishahs) were Orthodox Christians so before 1702 all of them were buried in churches (St.Sophie and in Erdine) l
No they were not. Most were buried in Eyüp Sultan Cemetery.

Referring to Janet, 25 September 2015 14:21. Yes Janet you are confused so much so that your comment contained many untruths. Let me help clarify the situation on the Serbian-Croatian border. It was first the Croats that stopped goods vehicles from entering Croatia from Serbia, Serbia responded by stopping goods vehicles from Croatia who then responded by banning all vehicles with Serbian number plates from entering Croatia, Serbia did not respond. I think it is clear to all who the initiators of the problems were - definitely not Serbia. Then you went on to complain why Serbia was letting the migrants into Serbia and allowing them transit. Please go further, why was Macedonia allowing the migrants in and allowing them transit. And further why was Greece pushing the migrants into Macedonia. And still, further why was Turkey not preventing the exit of migrants and stopping the people smugglers. Why do you put the blame on Serbia? That is the most significant question and I am not Serbian

1How could J.Scaliger in late 16 century know about

(rote,

Your claim about chronology being devised in the sixteenth century by Scaliger is nonsense - there were chronographers throughout the middle ages. There are several Byzantine historians- Constanine Porphyrogenitus,Theophanes,George Syncellus-amongst others- who recorded events that place in the empire in the 9th and 10th centuries. If we ignore all the primary sources(as Fomenko does), call every scientist who has carbon dated an object a liar, pretend that there is no correlation between stated events in early history and the physical world (i.e. all archeologists are also liars), assume that even the early secondary sources (eyewitnesses) are written by liars, all relics are fakes ,then this might be true. I'm not going to claim that the histories we have are 100% true, but they are far more factually correct than Fomenko’s blatant pseudo-science.
To conclude, even if you could live the dream of many a historian and actually travel back to the days of ancient Greece & Rome,to witness history unfold in first person view, you still couldn't be sure what was really happening. And if you were, the person standing next to you might entirely disagree.

Dear b92!

Six first of my favorite questions were lost on their way to Leonidas ! I'll be missing them so kindly have a better look in your ware house of the lost things ! They all believe that rote is crazy but they avoid answering concrete questions when I challenge them. Promise not to bother you today !

Thank you !

It suffices to say that only last week the German F/M on a visit in Turkey praised the Turks for handling the crisis.
(Leonidas, 25 September 2015 16:16

And agree to hand Erdogan over a billion Euros, no strings attached. Insane.
(Ari Gold, 25 September 2015 16:23)

Ari,
It's always about money with you that someone is receiving, but not poor little Serbia. You are green with envy and can't contain yourself. Try tending your own garden and stop looking to see what others are getting. You should change your name to Ari Green.

We in the West are sorry that Croatia and Serbia are arguing caused by the migrant crisis. We are also confused. It is reported that Croatia banned commercial vehicles crossing their border in retaliation for Serbia banning Croatian commercial vehicles crossing their border earlier on. We also do not understand why Serbia allows thousands of migrants to cross their country from Macedonia and Greece. Hungary has stopped migrants entering and Croatia does not want thousands of migrants. What is Serbia doing to stop migrants at their borders.

It suffices to say that only last week the German F/M on a visit in Turkey praised the Turks for handling the crisis.
(Leonidas, 25 September 2015 16:16

And agree to hand Erdogan over a billion Euros, no strings attached. Insane.

So where is Lenny and other Croats thumping their chests with Albo's cheering them on? LOL! The EU went against a member in favour of common sense.

Janet,

Your posting seems to suggest that any transit country has the power to curtail the flow of refugees towards the EU which i think is very simplistic.The main actors on the refugee/migrant problem are Turkey and Germany. Erdogan has threatened the EU few times that he's going to flood it with R/M. Refugees have found a safe heaven in Turkey who is paid by the UN/EU to look after them yet the Turks are fully complicit in letting the flood out of their camps and at the same time being complicit in fomenting the war in Syria as a key policy of the Turks neo-Ottoman agenda with the EU refugee crisis as a gates of Vienna 2.0.
The view usually being published about Germany is the one that the government under Merkel has set as an agenda. In this, she is supported by those media forces that helped her reach power, not least the Springer and the Bertelsmann families that own most of Germany's newspaper, magazines, TV and radio channels.Merkel's own agenda is the dilution of ethnicity by importing millions of third world citizens not only in Germany but the rest of the EU in order to create -in all but name-German empire and control it more easily.Merkel couldn't import all these people legally into Ger/EU at a time that the EU counts more than 32m unemployed so she had to create a humanitarian crisis in order to mask her real intentions.It suffices to say that only last week the German F/M on a visit in Turkey praised the Turks for handling the crisis.

There are two reasons why you should never get into a wrestling match with a pig.

1. You are both going to get dirty.
2. The pig loves it.

ned taylor
There are a number of factors which led me to believe that the present "humanitarian" crisis was manufactured in order to facilitate islamic(mainly)immigration into EU through the back door.Firstly, madame Merkel is on record few times saying multiculturalism in Germany has been a total failure because of the muslim immigrants unwillingness to integrate.So,why is she insisting of repeating the same insanity and expecting different results this time?Secondly,having decided what to do Merkel goes lecturing other EU leaders about what 'must' be done insisting on a PERMANENT future formulas for admitting refugees.Holland, the side kick of Merkel, demanded for Hungary to leave the EU if it didn't do as told by the Supreme Being (Merkel if you don't get me.)The Eastern Europeans especially don't want these people, and nor do the migrants want Eastern Europe.Thirdly, an OECD report says that the EU will admit as many as 50mil r/m by 2050.Globalization through the back door.
I do not mind if every German family adopts a Fluechtlinge, good for them, if that is what the Germans really want and need in order to deal with their shameful past and to regain a modicum of self-respect. But the German government and Western media elite cannot tell everyone what is the right thing to do. We in Europe recognize good old German imperialism, the Drang nach Osten, even if it is dressed in globalist neconservative rags.

What is Serbia doing to stop migrants at their borders.
(Janet, 25 September 2015 14:21)
-------------------------------------
The same as what Greece and Macedonia are doing...nothing. Serbia is getting the migrants in from these two countriesw (one of which is a EU member). Greece is doing nothing about getting them from Turkey and so on and so on.
Serbia is only a third country not the country of origin. Do you expect Serbia to do what EU is not even attempting to do?

10/ “I knew that Mariam mosque” – I know several such ones as Mariam (unlike St. Sophia) is known and respected in Islam as mother of Issa/Jesus. So most often if the Ottomans reformed such a church (of St. Maria) into a mosque they didn’t change the name. Because before 19 century the Sultans remembered of their Christian routes. I like your link but it will lead us away. But according to Fomenko before the Ottomans became Muslims the mosque was a church of (I may be mistaking) St. Athena as a reflection of St. Maria. He insist that many of the “ancient Greek gods” in fact were written before 1370 during the Royal (Family) Christianity by other members of the Komnin/Ruricovici Dynasty. Their logic was simple – if our ancestor (Jesus) was God then we too are gods … Most likely Fomenko says that all those stories were written by the ethnic Greeks who were a caste responsible for the religion in the empire.

11/ “a wall which is 21500km long x5mx9m with 10000 watchtowers 9 metres high?” – it a very simple issue. The wall is much shorter and there are several almost independent walls some of them from south to the north. It’s not a defensive construction for many reasons. Because all the loopholes look towards China and because the wall runs between the mountains that means death to the defenders. As a Greek you must know that in mountain battle the one above is the survivor. And it wasn't a big problem to build it when you have 400 million of slaves.

Leonidas : “fomenting the war in Syria as a key policy of the Turks neo-Ottoman agenda”

Strange as it is but I know no one who loves the Ottomans :

1/ The Greeks hate them at least for two reasons – because due to the British influence and the increased debts of the Ottomans they massacred the Christians several times in 19 century. Also because as soon as Greece obtained independence in 1813 it was seized by the masters of the world the Oldenburgs who constructed the history and thus the mentality of the Greeks.

2/ Same with the Armenians who were massacred twice – in early 19 and early 20 centuries.

3/ Russians as we conducted about 15 wars against the “turks” all because the Oldenburgs ruled Russia since 1700. They replaced the Romanovs who ruled about 85 years in 17 century but they left Romanovs’ family name as a cover.

4/ Balkan peoples who survived thanks to the Ottomans during 150 years of Reformation wars that cleaned Europe and during Inquisition of 16-17 centuries also hate “the Turks” as they were set free and got influence of either Russia or Britain or Germany – all ruled by the Oldenburgs. So they were imposed the history they believe like fanatics now.

Leonidas- I think you are being too hard on the Germans and that there is a whiff of conspiracy theory about what you have written. The Germans as a country have given the impression that they are happy to welcome large numbers of refugees and that this isn't simply a top down policy being forced on the masses. I find it hard to believe that Mrs Merkel is attempting a "dilution of ethnicity" as you put it. There are many difficulties created by the sudden influx of hundreds of thousands of people of a minority ethnicity and although Germany has shown itself willing to deal with such problems I cannot see any evidence that they have manufactured this situation. Where I would criticise Angela is the impression she gave a few weeks ago that refugees could travel to whichever destination country they wanted. This is in direct contradiction of the recently agreed sharing out of refugees which will inevitably mean that many are sent to countries to which they do not want to go. Clearly they should not be in a position to pick and choose by Mrs Merkel very clearly gave that impression.

rote

I've never claimed that world history has been written accurately for various reasons.Literacy levels in ancient were nearly non-existent and therefore various events were recorded by eyewitnesses and edited at later dates.However,a flawed world history is not equal to conspiracy theories of Fomenko .I have exchanged with you in the past on your assertions and in fact I did send you three postings of 4500 words in total outlining specific points of Fomenko’s pseudo-history which you’ve failed to answer.Fomenko is cherry-picking as far as his pseudo-analysis is concerned.He uses Ptolemy’s almagest to describe terrestrial events which coincided with certain events on earthbut refuses to use his eyewitness historical account of his life as a general of Alexander the Great.Why? Because Ptolemy’s chronology and the description of events is totally different of Fomenko’s.
You keep writing about the Ottomans but I have a strong feeling that you’ve never read the recorded Ottoman history which is anathema to Fomenko .Had you read it you’ll see that it’s so detailed not only of what ethnicities lived within the empire but also what form of taxes were collected by the authorities.Do you know the father of the Ottomans Suleyman Shah was buried in Syria in 1238? Under the Treaty of Lausanne (1923)the tomb site at castle Qal'at Ja'bar remained the property of Turkey and still guarded by a Turkish regiment. According to you the Turks must guarding a Russian Ceasar.

Referring to Janet, 25 September 2015 14:21. Yes Janet you are confused so much so that your comment contained many untruths. Let me help clarify the situation on the Serbian-Croatian border. It was first the Croats that stopped goods vehicles from entering Croatia from Serbia, Serbia responded by stopping goods vehicles from Croatia who then responded by banning all vehicles with Serbian number plates from entering Croatia, Serbia did not respond. I think it is clear to all who the initiators of the problems were - definitely not Serbia. Then you went on to complain why Serbia was letting the migrants into Serbia and allowing them transit. Please go further, why was Macedonia allowing the migrants in and allowing them transit. And further why was Greece pushing the migrants into Macedonia. And still, further why was Turkey not preventing the exit of migrants and stopping the people smugglers. Why do you put the blame on Serbia? That is the most significant question and I am not Serbian

What ancient Greece do you mean ? Is that the Ottoman buildings exposed as Parthenon with Mariam Mosque inside and minarets seen on early 19 century pictures ?
I knew that Mariam mosque-one of the world'd largest-is located in US and not in Greece let alone inside Parthenon.http://nypost.com/2014/01/26/the-secret-history-of-the-parthenon/
E1_ieQ%3D&ved=0CCkQyjdqFQoTCJjsj7vPmcgCFQGhGgodyLIBFw&ei=2yMJVtiSHoHCasjlhrgB#imgrc=Iao2WuJ5EszmRM%3A&usg=__phR3-ZE_bWC0z55YK5SNBE1_ieQ%3D
Iam not surprised at all by your claims with regards to Colosseum or the Pyramids or even the great of china that all were built recently.But seriously have you ever thought how long does it takes and what resources to built a wall which is 21500km long x5mx9m with 10000 watchtowers 9 metres high? But then again ,for Fomenko and his followers the Tang Dynasty of China, a high point of Chinese culture and political power is an invention, a classic "golden age" myth. The only thing Fomenko refuses to say is how Skalinger from medieval Europe convinced the Chinese to create a fake dynasty complete with bogus archives ( nearly 10million documents).
Bottom line Rote is the Great Horde is a figment of your imagination-it has never existed.History of ancient or medieval Russia prior to 16th century= zero.There is ample evidence in the Balkan countries of the existence of Byzantine empire (churches,ecclesiastical liturgy etc)and the Ottomans (mosques.bazaars,turkish baths etc)but nothing Russian.

10/ “I knew that Mariam mosque” – I know several such ones as Mariam (unlike St. Sophia) is known and respected in Islam as mother of Issa/Jesus. So most often if the Ottomans reformed such a church (of St. Maria) into a mosque they didn’t change the name. Because before 19 century the Sultans remembered of their Christian routes. I like your link but it will lead us away. But according to Fomenko before the Ottomans became Muslims the mosque was a church of (I may be mistaking) St. Athena as a reflection of St. Maria. He insist that many of the “ancient Greek gods” in fact were written before 1370 during the Royal (Family) Christianity by other members of the Komnin/Ruricovici Dynasty. Their logic was simple – if our ancestor (Jesus) was God then we too are gods … Most likely Fomenko says that all those stories were written by the ethnic Greeks who were a caste responsible for the religion in the empire.

11/ “a wall which is 21500km long x5mx9m with 10000 watchtowers 9 metres high?” – it a very simple issue. The wall is much shorter and there are several almost independent walls some of them from south to the north. It’s not a defensive construction for many reasons. Because all the loopholes look towards China and because the wall runs between the mountains that means death to the defenders. As a Greek you must know that in mountain battle the one above is the survivor.

Leonidas few more things to drive you crazy :

Please mention that before 17-18 centuries there were no nations at all. So when I say Russians I mean Slavic peoples that already had their dialects and differences and sometimes fought each other but in general they spoke almost the same Slovensky language and acted like a united force. So the Bulgars were all – proto-Russians, proto-Serbs, Macedonians ect.

Also Armenia was somewhere among Hungary , France and Germany. last night I read something about the current Armenians (who prefer to be Haes people) and was shocked of how many famous dynasties had their routes. Say those were the Angel Dynaste that ruled Byzantine after the Komnins.

Many Russians and Serbs are proud to have the double head Eagle on their flag but they are unaware that it’s the Komnins family symbol i.e. symbol of Jesus (Andronic I Komnin) tortured to death in Jerusalem (Stanbul).

Most people also believe that the cross became the symbol of Christianity because of the crucifix of Jesus. In fact it was one of the Byzantine symbols long before and it meant the center of the world. The Komnins survived as Andronikoshvily Kniaz dynasty in Georgia. Later they became Andronikovi while their rival Angels according to Fomenko were eliminated.

Oldenburgs also have Byzantine Emperor routes but I suspect that they also belong to the Black Nobility.

On many old maps only Crete Island is marked as Greece and nowhere Jerusalem in Africa is seen.

Leonidas :

Part-2

To know all this you don’t need Fomenko. But if you mean to learn more ( What Suleiman means in Russian ? Why biographies of Solomon and Suleiman are so similar ? Why his fathe Selim was calles Grozny (Yavuz) ? What and where were his famous mines?) then you won’t move an inch without Fomenko.

2600 years that separates Suleiman and his Bible prototype Solomon are a fairy tale as before year of 572 the chronology was more or less correct. But this very year started as i572 and ended as 1572 and they call it the Gregorian reform now. Old dating lasted for about 200 years and many documents in Europe and Russia were dated as it used to be i623 (Iisus) or j712(Jesus) ect. So were signed many paintings and poems.

Our problem is that you think that Bible was written long ago while I believe that the registered history of mankind is less than 900 years. As a Greek you must have moral problems to refuse from the glory granted to you by the Oldenburgs in the 19 century. But it’s a big question if they stole or granted more of your fame. Because the Great Horde was composed of the castes and initially the Greeks were like the Brahmans of the Orthodox Church.

Yet one more question still remains – whom did they call the Greeks ? At least in Crimea Greeks were called all who belonged to the Greek/Orthodox church. So some of them could ethnically be of other origins. Our history is a fiction and it must be studied during literature lessons I think.

Leonidas FEW MORE QUESTIONS TO TEST THE PATIENCE OF B92

7/ Try to explain why none of the European Monarchs rushed to Jerusalem as soon as Napoleon “set it free” ? Why all of them kept on going to Crimea? Why was the war of 1856-57 in Crimea called as “the war for the cradle of Lord”?

8/ How can you explain that according to Abu Zeid chronologist of Mohammad the prophet and his Qureshi clan were white skins from the north ? How can you explain that the current history of Mohammad (as well as Tamerlane and many others) was written by someone who hated him?

9/ How could (as if slave Cherkessian) Mamelukes rule the whole Middle East for 600 years ?

10/How could the pharaohs leave only the cemeteries and pyramids but no evidence of their lifetime? Why so many Christian and Muslims symbols are seen there? Have you heard of the Herodotus Method that they used to calculate the age of the pyramids?

11/How could J.Scaliger in late 16 century know about the Hajj of Mohammad in 622 if none of the Europeans was allowed to the ME while in Muslims sources there are no dates?

12/How came that unlike all other religious books the Qurans were 100% similar all over the world and thousands of rewriters madee no mistakes?

13/The biggest submarine today is called Dmitry Donskoy. Why should the burial services after this Great Khan were held by a Trabesund Archbishop but not the Russian Patriarch who most likely was a Greek too?

Dear b92!

Six first of my favorite questions were lost on their way to Leonidas ! I'll be missing them so kindly have a better look in your ware house of the lost things ! They all believe that rote is crazy but they avoid answering concrete questions when I challenge them. Promise not to bother you today !

Thank you !

part-1
You have a very slight knowledge of Fomenko’s history.
I know what I need to know.If he is as credible as you say his chronology hypothesis wouldn't be called a fiasco and an embarrassment for Russia by Russian academics and it wouldn't be awarded the title of ("Pochotnaya bezgramota") for the worst book published in Russia.
the tomb you are talking about belonged to the famous Salahuddin and 90 Turkish soldiers were guarding it until resent.
Not what the Ottoman archives are saying and I am more than certain that you've never set eyes upon them.
According to Scaliger history Salahuddin was a Kurd but it means nothing as Kurds were Horde’s army deployed there.
According to the Ottoman's recorded history Suleyman Shah was the father of the Ottomans.Period.
If under Suleyman Shah you mean Suleiman the Great (Qanuni) then you use incorrect terminology because since mid-15 century they called themselves Padishahs and spoke Russian.
No I don't mean Suleyman the great and he spoke Turkish not Russian. The archives go back as far as the 12th century and written in Turkish and one would expect the leader of that nation to speak the language.
And you also use wrong chronology
That's the date Ottomans have recorded and it's more credible than conspiracy theories.
all famous Sultans (Padishahs) were Orthodox Christians so before 1702 all of them were buried in churches (St.Sophie and in Erdine) l
No they were not. Most were buried in Eyüp Sultan Cemetery.

1How could J.Scaliger in late 16 century know about

(rote,

Your claim about chronology being devised in the sixteenth century by Scaliger is nonsense - there were chronographers throughout the middle ages. There are several Byzantine historians- Constanine Porphyrogenitus,Theophanes,George Syncellus-amongst others- who recorded events that place in the empire in the 9th and 10th centuries. If we ignore all the primary sources(as Fomenko does), call every scientist who has carbon dated an object a liar, pretend that there is no correlation between stated events in early history and the physical world (i.e. all archeologists are also liars), assume that even the early secondary sources (eyewitnesses) are written by liars, all relics are fakes ,then this might be true. I'm not going to claim that the histories we have are 100% true, but they are far more factually correct than Fomenko’s blatant pseudo-science.
To conclude, even if you could live the dream of many a historian and actually travel back to the days of ancient Greece & Rome,to witness history unfold in first person view, you still couldn't be sure what was really happening. And if you were, the person standing next to you might entirely disagree.

Leonidas : “father of the Ottomans Suleyman Shah was buried in Syria in 1238? … and still guarded by a Turkish regiment. According to you the Turks must guarding a Russian Ceasar.”


part-1

You have a very slight knowledge of Fomenko’s history. Anyway you mentioned some facts we can talk about. As far as I know the tomb you are talking about belonged to the famous Salahuddin and 90 Turkish soldiers were guarding it until resent. But if I am not mistaken they have abandoned this place last year, maybe with the dead body. According to Scaliger history Salahuddin was a Kurd but it means nothing as Kurds were Horde’s army deployed there. If under Suleyman Shah you mean Suleiman the Great (Qanuni) then you use incorrect terminology because since mid-15 century they called themselves Padishahs and spoke Russian. And you also use wrong chronology as father of Suleiman Qanuni was Selim I who died and was buried in 1520 in Edirne (Adrianopole) inhabited only by the Greeks and the Bulgars then. As you must know all famous Sultans (Padishahs) were Orthodox Christians so before 1702 all of them were buried in churches (St.Sophie and in Erdine) later reconstructed into mosques. They had Russian appearance and spoke Russian before 18 century. To know all this you don’t need Fomenko.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Sultans_of_the_Ottoman_Dynasty.jpg

LEONIDAS

5/ “pseudo-science” is what you believe in ! Please explain to me what the hell Sparta tried to seize the Athens ? Did they need money or gold ? Of course not ! Then what other reason there could be if they already had problems of depopulation and peasant riots ? Or tell me why the Greeks stopped to die between 5-11 centuries and no graves of that period can be found there ?

6/ “historian and actually travel back to the days of ancient Greece & Rome, to witness history” – what are you talking about ? What ancient Greece do you mean ? Is that the Ottoman buildings exposed as Parthenon with Mariam Mosque inside and minarets seen on early 19 century pictures ? Or is it the Coliseum copied from Constantinople Coliseum in 18 century ? Or maybe you can tell a building in Jerusalem older than 200 years ?

7/ “Scaliger is nonsense” – not quite so. He did a lot of useful job as well trying to unite several dating that existed in 16 century. But his main target was the memory of the Great Horde that he tried to kill. Yet in late 16 century the Horde still existed so nobody took him serious. And say Issak Newton wrote a good book about chronology. Yet in 17 century Petavius developed Scaliger’s theory and in 100 years it became dominant.

Leonidas if we change the tune we our dialogue can be more useful. Why not just ask me what I think of this or that ? Why not ask me to explain things through my vision of the events ect. So don’t ignore my questions.

Leonidas

8/ “Most were buried in Eyüp Sultan Cemetery.” – it’s not true at least because as they tell us it was built after 1453 so the previous Sultans could not be buried here. Second reason is that even this date is wrong as on old and very detailed French map of 1572 … http://chronologia.org/vatikan/im/v_284.jpg ... there were only few mosques in Istanbul :

• Of Selim … http://chronologia.org/vatikan/im/v_373.jpg ... http://chronologia.org/vatikan/im/v_375.jpg
• Fetihe near the Patriarchy … http://chronologia.org/vatikan/im/v_374.jpg

And all of them were built like churches because the Sultans were Orthodox Russian Bulgars i.e. Volgars ! By the way this is how your “turks” looked like … http://chronologia.org/vatikan/im/v_379.jpg ... http://chronologia.org/vatikan/im/v_378.jpg

1/ “all archeologists are also liars” – not quite so as they only find objects while historians give them names and chronology like Schliemann did with the fake Troy gold, like Efes as if found in Turkey in 1967 or Viminacium near Belgrade. Who said it was Efes or Viminacium ? Where was it written?

2/ “recorded events that place in the empire in the 9th and 10th centuries” - it’s OK if you believe that no 1000 years were added in j572 and if you believe that ancient Latin (also called Barbarian because it was based on Slavonic language) appeared earlier than 15 century and if you believe that ancient Greek is older than the medieval one. Also you must believe that there was no Ancient Rome in Alexandria moved by the Romeys to Constantinople in 11 century. And of course you must have a proof that there are some written sources other than with Egyptian pictures and characters dated 9-10 centuries.

3/ “carbon dated” – we don’t need Fomenko to doubt this form of dating. It’s not always precise.

4/“early secondary sources” – exactly! Because 99% of such sources are copies or copies of the copies. Also mind that pergament can survive 300-400 years in the ME and 150-200 in Europe. So the souces you are talking about were never seen as they were initially written as copies. They were first obtained in the middle ages like Gomer’s poems printed first in 1700 years after the described events. Meanwhile they are almost the only sources of the Troy War and Odissea.

LEONIDAS

9/ “Suleyman the great and he spoke Turkish not Russian” – not quite so because the Great Horde initially was two language Empire and most spoke both Russian (or best to say Slavonic) and proto-Turkic. I have a lot evidence of it. Say the famous “Хождение за три моря” by Afanasy Nikitin was written in Russian and “tatar” languages. What is interesting in “tatar” texts he used Arab letters while in the Russian part he used Cyrillic. Surprising is that those were different parts and never translated ! It means that both languages were widely spread. Also in the beginning he prays first in Russian and then in Arabian-Tatar … it sounds very ridiculous Господи Иисусу Христе спаси и сохрани and then in Arabic letters Bismillahi Rahman Urrahim … Also Leonidas you will be shocked to know what names Russian had in 15-16 centuries. It could be like Ivan Ahmetov, Murat Nikiforov , Davlet Semenov, Simeon Bekbulatovic ect. so things were much different from what we think now and Fomenko only reveals it. Ll his reconstructions of history are based of facts.

http://www.chronologia.org/en/how_it_was/index.html