Belgrade denies "recognizing Kosovo" with text of agreement

Recognition comes when the other guy says he recognizes you; not when you say.

Do you enjoy making stuff up every time you post the same nonsense here Brian?

Vucic has spoken about having a constitutional referendum to remove Kosovo so that can be changed. Germany is demanding it anyway for eu membership. Serbia has appointed dejan pavicevic ambassador and has border guards and customs agents and competes against kosovo in sports.

Maybe Mrs. Tahiri has a special Albanian version of the agreement which is a bit different, to make her happy? I could not read any 'Republic of Kosovo' in the English version linked in the article
(Questioner, 27 August 2015 15:49)

No, that is because the "version" posted was on the Serbian site, therefore not official, if you get my drift.

When Belgrade denies you know it's true.

"Integral texts of all agreements from Brussels can be seen at Office's internet page in both Serbian and English," the statement said.

Maybe Mrs. Tahiri has a special Albanian version of the agreement which is a bit different, to make her happy? I could not read any 'Republic of Kosovo' in the English version linked in the article

well, well, for you guys the lies from your politicians and media is the truth.
first see this link;" http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/08/27/uk-summit-balkans-football-idUKKCN0QV2H420150827, which speaks volumes,

in case you don't know, every single agreement was signed on equal footing as a Republic of Kosova and Republic of Serbia without any * and/or Kosovo Metohija as you would like to call it .

All state symbols of each country was displayed equally.

be aware what your politicians and your beloved media is telling you, otherwise you will wake up the next day thinking that you are living in a different planet!?

God help you all , or God save you all from your own lies.

When Serbia sends its athletes to compete against the sovereign independent republic of kosovo its turning its athletes into politicians and Kosovo independence ambassadors. If they opposed Kosovo independence they would have boycott euro games and IAAF and FIna and what's the downside? Serbs can't win? No. Run? No? What's wrong with Serbian competitors? Water polo more important than Kosovo. Basketball more important than Kosovo. And all those handball girls became ambassadors for Kosovo independence.

"Integral texts of all agreements from Brussels can be seen at Office's internet page in both Serbian and English," the statement said.

Maybe Mrs. Tahiri has a special Albanian version of the agreement which is a bit different, to make her happy? I could not read any 'Republic of Kosovo' in the English version linked in the article

Brian: I have no idea whether Vucic has made the statement that you claim, a link would put that matter to rest. Germany certainly has not made recognition a condition for membership, at least not publicly and if they did it privately I can't imagine that you would have been privy to the conversation. As for the sporting contests that you allude to, Serbia has the choice to either participate in the competition or withdraw in protest; the latter would be cutting off their nose to spite their face. It should be borne in mind that such competition has been imposed on Serbia and they voted against acceptance of Kosovo into both the IOC and UEFA. Will Serbia ever recognise Kosovo formally? Maybe. However, as Factman points out, it will happen when or if THEY decide it will happen, not when you or anyone else decides it already has.

The only Kosovo Albanian worth his/her weight in words in Veton Suroi, and I'm afraid he has some bad news for Tahiri and her chronic delusions I don't even think she takes seriously anymore at this point.

http://www.b92.net/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2015&mm=08&dd=27&nav_category=640&nav_id=1032125

Short version: ZSO is a legal entity with powers to decide over all local affairs and affirm/reject anything from Pristina they deem to be counterproductive.

If it looks like an autonomous authority and acts like an autonomous authority, then it is an autonomous authority.

Just as everyone with a modicum of intelligence knew it was going to be the minute Dacic and Thaci signed the agreement back in 2013.

Here is a very simple way to know if Serbia has recognized.

Until BG recognizes Kosovo (which, by the way, requires a national referendum to remove it from its constitution - and not some act of Vucic), there is not independence, but disputed independence. BG will use that disputed independence to burden and entangle Pristina in endless legal, diplomatic, administrative, economic, & interpretive impasses limiting sovereignty. These will include additional power-sharing arrangements, autonomies, parallel institutions and links to Serbia.

When you see those things have ended, then Serbia has recognized Kosovo.

Until then Serbia's strategy will be to use each subsequent Brussels agreement to further weaken Kosovo's sovereignty (because independence without sovereignty is not really independence).

The most difficult time for Pristina will be the agreement which documents "who owns what" in Kosovo. There is a very long list of contracts that has been assembled by BG.

Puerto Rico doesn't claim it is independent and no one recognizes it as independent. If Serbia opposed Kosovo independence it would drop out of all international sports contests. By not doing so it is being stridently pro Kosovo independence and turning its athletes into Kosovo independence ambassadors.

Short version: ZSO is a legal entity with powers to decide over all local affairs and affirm/reject anything from Pristina they deem to be counterproductive.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 27 August 2015 21:51)

Of course... the ZSO can reject anything from Pristina which is not in accordance with Kosovo's Law, with Kosovo's Constitutional Court having the final say if there is a dispute.

And, of course, every Kosovo municipality is a legal entity with power to decide over all the local affairs that are in that legal entity's domain and reject anything from Pristina which is illegal.

(factman, 28 August 2015 05:28
You are right Serbia has not made any formal recognition of Kosovo, don't know why you had to post it 3 times but whatever.
The west or (US and EU) are not requiring Serbia to do so, of course it would make things better if Serbia did, but they do not want to destabilize Serbia any more than they want Serbia to destabilize any of the other countries of the Balkans.
But what they have done is forced Serbia into a corner of cooperation with Kosovo as an equal entity.
Do you think it was just a coincidence that this was signed before the Summit of the western Balkans. A meeting with representative of the EU, where all the press mentions the meeting of the non EU "countries" where none list the names which includes Kosovo without any * notation. Even your own press speaks of the attendees as countries of the Balkans and region.
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/region.php?yyyy=2015&mm=08&dd=28&nav_id=95249

And if that were not enough both Dacic and Thaci had to get up before the group to pledge their commitment to continuing the normalization of relations between the two.
There was absolutely NO way Serbia could throw a tantrum and boycott this meeting that was set up in such a manner, at a critical time when opening of chapters is most possible.
So no they did not and do not have to recognize but they do have to stand shoulder to shoulder with Kosovo and play nice before the world.

Recognition only requires defacto actions. So when Serbia competes against Kosovo in sport or signs an agreement with republic of kosovo it has recognized. Serbia needs to hold referendum making it official.

Here is the link to the wsj story where vucic says he will hold a referendum about Kosovo independence - removing it from serbias constituion!

http://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-RTBB-4928

Here is a very simple way to know if Serbia has recognized.

Until BG recognizes Kosovo (which, by the way, requires a national referendum to remove it from its constitution - and not some act of Vucic), there is not independence, but disputed independence. BG will use that disputed independence to burden and entangle Pristina in endless legal, diplomatic, administrative, economic, & interpretive impasses limiting sovereignty. These will include additional power-sharing arrangements, autonomies, parallel institutions and links to Serbia.

When you see those things have ended, then Serbia has recognized Kosovo.

Until then Serbia's strategy will be to use each subsequent Brussels agreement to further weaken Kosovo's sovereignty (because independence without sovereignty is not really independence).

The most difficult time for Pristina will be the agreement which documents "who owns what" in Kosovo. There is a very long list of contracts that has been assembled by BG.

Here is a very simple way to know if Serbia has recognized.

Until BG recognizes Kosovo (which, by the way, requires a national referendum to remove it from its constitution - and not some act of Vucic), there is not independence, but disputed independence. BG will use that disputed independence to burden and entangle Pristina in endless legal, diplomatic, administrative, economic, & interpretive impasses limiting sovereignty. These will include additional power-sharing arrangements, autonomies, parallel institutions and links to Serbia.

When you see those things have ended, then Serbia has recognized Kosovo.

Until then Serbia's strategy will be to use each subsequent Brussels agreement to further weaken Kosovo's sovereignty (because independence without sovereignty is not really independence).

The most difficult time for Pristina will be the agreement which documents "who owns what" in Kosovo. There is a very long list of contracts that has been assembled by BG.

And all those handball girls became ambassadors for Kosovo independence.
(Brian, 28 August 2015 03:48)

LOL go home Brian, you're drunk :)

No, that is because the "version" posted was on the Serbian site, therefore not official, if you get my drift.
(Guest Observer, 27 August 2015 22:30)

Oh, sorry. So I googled a bit and found a link on the official EU website: http://eeas.europa.eu/statements-eeas/2015/150825_02_en.htm

There, at the end, you can download a PDF file containing the afreement, and surprise surprise, the text looks the same as on the official Serbian site.
Then I searched that PDF for the word 'Republic', and guess what - it was found one(1) time. But don't be happy too quickly, the one time 'Republic' was mentioned is in the context of 'Republic of Serbia'

So everyone now can read the official version and see what's true and what's not - or will still claim the EU website publishes a Serbian version?

Until BG recognizes Kosovo there is not independence, but disputed independence.
(factman, 28 August 2015 05:17)

Yeah, of course, as every tautology. If BG disputes Kosovo's independence, then Kosovo's indepedence is disputed for BG. If Macedonia does not dispute Kosovo's independence, then Kosovo's independence is not disputed for Macedonia, and so on... :)
----------

The most difficult time for Pristina will be the agreement which documents "who owns what" in Kosovo. There is a very long list of contracts that has been assembled by BG.
(factman, 28 August 2015 05:17)

Not sure what the difficulty is! Who owns what is determined by Kosovo's Law and what the cadastral records say. Is there any parcel of land that is in dispute?

well, well, for you guys the lies from your politicians and media is the truth.
first see this link;" [link], which speaks volumes,
(the truth, 27 August 2015 20:02)

Hey buddy, try using a link that pertains to what you want to argue. Unless your intention was to show Thaci playing football when he should have spent more time defending the sovereignty of his "country" from being carved up into Serb holdings.

(Brian, 28 August 2015 If they opposed Kosovo independence they would have boycott euro games and IAAF and FIna

---

Absolutely not. Please recognize when an USA athlete competes against a Puerto Rican athlete at the Olympics it does not denote that Puerto Rico is no longer a territory of the USA or that Puerto Ricans are no longer US citizens.

When 63% of Serbia recognizes Kosovo as independent and Serbia elected a unanimous pro eu parliament how could Serbia be destabalized by vucic calling a Kosovo independence referendum? All Serbia Athletes now recognize kosovo as a sovereign independent nation.

icj1,

You left out the seond half of the parag (below).

In short, K cannot survive with an antagonistic S at its borders. Everyone knows this. So S is forced to play nice and to go to the negotiating table. And each time it does, it extracts another piece of sovereignty (like it did last wek).

"BG will use that disputed independence to burden and entangle Pristina in endless legal, diplomatic, administrative, economic, & interpretive impasses limiting sovereignty. These will include additional power-sharing arrangements, autonomies, parallel institutions and links to Serbia"

Yes, the cadastral records will show who owns what industry, mines, and factories.

A New Day,

I travel much and signal is sometimes weak in other countries. Sorry for the triple post.

Regarding "equal entity"

"Answerer" said it below. Please see the link below from the EU. There is only one mention of the word "Republic" and it's used to describe S, not K.

http://eeas.europa.eu/statements-eeas/2015/150825_02_en.htm

Yes, S is being required to play nice, but only because K cannot grow with an antagonistic S on its borders. Everyone knows and understands this, And no one more than K.

So it seems S has now shifted gears and now accelerates the mechanisms I wrote below and uses each negotiation to strip out another piece of sovereignty from K (just as they did last week).

It's pretty clear what they are doing and its a smart strategy they hit upon IMO.

It's pretty clear what they are doing and its a smart strategy they hit upon IMO.
(factman, 30 August 2015 01:11)
I would have guessed you a little wiser but yes it is very obvious what they are doing to everyone except those Serbs who they wish to confuse.
The only way to get the Serbia people to accept their future is to convince them that it is Serbia's win and that they are the ones forcing Kosovo (or the Albanians) away not that they are losing. But then again they have not really lost anything they did not lose in 1999 just like Kosovo is not really losing anything that they did not lose in 2008.
But the instance you give, read it again and look at the meaning. It speaks of where the association can receive money, in this case the mention of as "domestic and international as well as the Republic of Serbia. Showing that it is a separate entity.
I am sure that Serbia would not sign it as Republic of Kosovo, like I said they are not going to FORCE Serbia to recognize, only deal with Kosovo as a separate and equal entity. In the agreement Serbia has agreed that the Serbs of Kosovo will be subject to the laws of Kosovo, they have always protested that before, and the courts in north used Serbian laws.

(Brian, 29 August 2015 12:02)If Serbia opposed Kosovo independence it would drop out of all international sports contests.
---

If your logic brings you to this conclusion, please explain to readers how the People's Republic of China can compete in the same Olympic Games as Taiwan?

(factman, 31 August 2015 21:57)
It is true, there is a shift. The goal for the first 10 years from Serbian politicians was they wanted Kosovo and that was the only way to prove they won. They did not want the Albanians, just Kosovo.
I think your present leadership does not want Kosovo, knows that they are not in a financial situation to maintain it and the fact is that there would be no peace nor economic advancement of Serbia for decades if somehow it were granted the rights to Kosovo again.
With that said, Serbs are a proud people and it is very important to make this as a win for Serbia.
The west has known this for a long time and that is exactly why patience has been played here. There was two ways to do it rip Kosovo from Serbia and exacerbate the tensions in Kosovo or give the Serbs incentives to let it go. There was no quick way to do this, it took time, there was too much sentiment for Kosovo above all else.
As have been said many times one side cannot win everything, or at least appear to win everything. That is where people like you become important. When you get on here and sing about how the Serbian side is winning and it is the Albanian side losing, then Serbs walk away feeling good about something they would have never considered before.

I wish the best for both Serbia and Kosovo but I do not believe it is possible together. But I also do not believe in any innate superiority of peoples.

A New Day,

Again, all great points.

The problem with your formulation is that it is follows the classical nation state model of establishment/ development.

There is nothing in this situation which fits that model.

In the classical model a new nation state is able to maintain and enforce its borders and sustain and provide economically.

It is questionable either can be acheived to the degree needed.

This opens up the possibility of dissolution/ absorption into another entity (Albania).

In that scenario, It would be a "leap" to think that north of the Ibar would be making the trip.

S seems to be playing toward that day.

Speculation? Perhaps. But i wouldn't downplay the viability notion quite so cavalierly.

History is far more "zig-zaggy" than your linear equation. It seems linear when we read the post-facto histories, but the day to day events are far more "zig zaggy."

I agree with your final sentences wholeheartedly.

Adrian,

We are not the same person..

We are both Americans, so it just seems to you that we are the same.

a new day and factman are the same person , i have a link too !

(adrian, 1 September 2015 14:55)
Almost spilled my coffee when I read this. If you notice our posts we are presenting different views entirely, just not in the usual crass vindictiveness of ethnic hatred.
But I think the confusion may be while we present our arguments we realize that the other may have some interesting points. In other words no argument is completely one sided.

I think debate and discussion are good, and when you have someone that does so with respect instead of the typical name calling and ethnic slurs is refreshing. But I must admit that factman is a bit more gracious than I am.
But I am 100% behind Kosovo independence, and I think that it is a bum rap for posters to expect the same level from a brand new republic that has no base, which came from being ruled by Serbia, to being ruled by a internationals to forming an independent state.
As far as the leadership in Kosovo, if you look the leaders of any revolution are the immediate leaders of a country. The first US President was General George Washington considered a criminal by England.
It will take time to form the leadership to lead Kosovo into the future. I am willing to give Kosovo that time, I do not believe factman is.

Serbia does recognize Kosovo... as it's Southern Province! Which it will always be. Whichever Serbian name is selected, Kosovo or Kosova.

Serbs already know they lost Kosovo that's why 63% say its independent and Serb athletes compete against Kosovo. Serbs are border guards on Kosovo border as well as customs agents. Serbs have to dial an international code while callig Kosovo. Serb is ambassador to Kosovo dejan pavicevic.

A New Day,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

All great points for sure.

I agree with them all.

I am saying that S seems to have made a shift in tactics and was proposing it as a topic of discussion here.

Isn't that the point of a forum :)

Cheers!

a new day and factman are the same person , i have a link too !

recently economy of Albania grow up faster than Serbia

Serbia is in recension 2012 2014 2015

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2015/01/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=60&pr.y=8&sy=2012&ey=2015&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=914%2C942&s=NGDP_RPCH&grp=0&a=

I am a Romanian from Romania an observer of the reality from Yugolslavia and it`s neigblorus

There is no Taiwan in the Olympics its Chinese tapei. Kosovo will compete as "the sovereign and independent republic of Kosovo" not "Serbian province of Kosovo" or "Kosovo*" but sovereign and independent republic of Kosovo. So how can Serbia be in rio if it is not a strident supporter of Kosovo independence?

Vucic has spoken about having a constitutional referendum to remove Kosovo so that can be changed. Germany is demanding it anyway for eu membership. Serbia has appointed dejan pavicevic ambassador and has border guards and customs agents and competes against kosovo in sports.

Do you enjoy making stuff up every time you post the same nonsense here Brian?

Recognition comes when the other guy says he recognizes you; not when you say.

Recognition only requires defacto actions. So when Serbia competes against Kosovo in sport or signs an agreement with republic of kosovo it has recognized. Serbia needs to hold referendum making it official.

When Belgrade denies you know it's true.

"Integral texts of all agreements from Brussels can be seen at Office's internet page in both Serbian and English," the statement said.

Maybe Mrs. Tahiri has a special Albanian version of the agreement which is a bit different, to make her happy? I could not read any 'Republic of Kosovo' in the English version linked in the article

"Integral texts of all agreements from Brussels can be seen at Office's internet page in both Serbian and English," the statement said.

Maybe Mrs. Tahiri has a special Albanian version of the agreement which is a bit different, to make her happy? I could not read any 'Republic of Kosovo' in the English version linked in the article

well, well, for you guys the lies from your politicians and media is the truth.
first see this link;" http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/08/27/uk-summit-balkans-football-idUKKCN0QV2H420150827, which speaks volumes,

in case you don't know, every single agreement was signed on equal footing as a Republic of Kosova and Republic of Serbia without any * and/or Kosovo Metohija as you would like to call it .

All state symbols of each country was displayed equally.

be aware what your politicians and your beloved media is telling you, otherwise you will wake up the next day thinking that you are living in a different planet!?

God help you all , or God save you all from your own lies.

Here is a very simple way to know if Serbia has recognized.

Until BG recognizes Kosovo (which, by the way, requires a national referendum to remove it from its constitution - and not some act of Vucic), there is not independence, but disputed independence. BG will use that disputed independence to burden and entangle Pristina in endless legal, diplomatic, administrative, economic, & interpretive impasses limiting sovereignty. These will include additional power-sharing arrangements, autonomies, parallel institutions and links to Serbia.

When you see those things have ended, then Serbia has recognized Kosovo.

Until then Serbia's strategy will be to use each subsequent Brussels agreement to further weaken Kosovo's sovereignty (because independence without sovereignty is not really independence).

The most difficult time for Pristina will be the agreement which documents "who owns what" in Kosovo. There is a very long list of contracts that has been assembled by BG.

Here is a very simple way to know if Serbia has recognized.

Until BG recognizes Kosovo (which, by the way, requires a national referendum to remove it from its constitution - and not some act of Vucic), there is not independence, but disputed independence. BG will use that disputed independence to burden and entangle Pristina in endless legal, diplomatic, administrative, economic, & interpretive impasses limiting sovereignty. These will include additional power-sharing arrangements, autonomies, parallel institutions and links to Serbia.

When you see those things have ended, then Serbia has recognized Kosovo.

Until then Serbia's strategy will be to use each subsequent Brussels agreement to further weaken Kosovo's sovereignty (because independence without sovereignty is not really independence).

The most difficult time for Pristina will be the agreement which documents "who owns what" in Kosovo. There is a very long list of contracts that has been assembled by BG.

Here is a very simple way to know if Serbia has recognized.

Until BG recognizes Kosovo (which, by the way, requires a national referendum to remove it from its constitution - and not some act of Vucic), there is not independence, but disputed independence. BG will use that disputed independence to burden and entangle Pristina in endless legal, diplomatic, administrative, economic, & interpretive impasses limiting sovereignty. These will include additional power-sharing arrangements, autonomies, parallel institutions and links to Serbia.

When you see those things have ended, then Serbia has recognized Kosovo.

Until then Serbia's strategy will be to use each subsequent Brussels agreement to further weaken Kosovo's sovereignty (because independence without sovereignty is not really independence).

The most difficult time for Pristina will be the agreement which documents "who owns what" in Kosovo. There is a very long list of contracts that has been assembled by BG.

The only Kosovo Albanian worth his/her weight in words in Veton Suroi, and I'm afraid he has some bad news for Tahiri and her chronic delusions I don't even think she takes seriously anymore at this point.

http://www.b92.net/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2015&mm=08&dd=27&nav_category=640&nav_id=1032125

Short version: ZSO is a legal entity with powers to decide over all local affairs and affirm/reject anything from Pristina they deem to be counterproductive.

If it looks like an autonomous authority and acts like an autonomous authority, then it is an autonomous authority.

Just as everyone with a modicum of intelligence knew it was going to be the minute Dacic and Thaci signed the agreement back in 2013.

When Serbia sends its athletes to compete against the sovereign independent republic of kosovo its turning its athletes into politicians and Kosovo independence ambassadors. If they opposed Kosovo independence they would have boycott euro games and IAAF and FIna and what's the downside? Serbs can't win? No. Run? No? What's wrong with Serbian competitors? Water polo more important than Kosovo. Basketball more important than Kosovo. And all those handball girls became ambassadors for Kosovo independence.

And all those handball girls became ambassadors for Kosovo independence.
(Brian, 28 August 2015 03:48)

LOL go home Brian, you're drunk :)

No, that is because the "version" posted was on the Serbian site, therefore not official, if you get my drift.
(Guest Observer, 27 August 2015 22:30)

Oh, sorry. So I googled a bit and found a link on the official EU website: http://eeas.europa.eu/statements-eeas/2015/150825_02_en.htm

There, at the end, you can download a PDF file containing the afreement, and surprise surprise, the text looks the same as on the official Serbian site.
Then I searched that PDF for the word 'Republic', and guess what - it was found one(1) time. But don't be happy too quickly, the one time 'Republic' was mentioned is in the context of 'Republic of Serbia'

So everyone now can read the official version and see what's true and what's not - or will still claim the EU website publishes a Serbian version?

Brian: I have no idea whether Vucic has made the statement that you claim, a link would put that matter to rest. Germany certainly has not made recognition a condition for membership, at least not publicly and if they did it privately I can't imagine that you would have been privy to the conversation. As for the sporting contests that you allude to, Serbia has the choice to either participate in the competition or withdraw in protest; the latter would be cutting off their nose to spite their face. It should be borne in mind that such competition has been imposed on Serbia and they voted against acceptance of Kosovo into both the IOC and UEFA. Will Serbia ever recognise Kosovo formally? Maybe. However, as Factman points out, it will happen when or if THEY decide it will happen, not when you or anyone else decides it already has.

Short version: ZSO is a legal entity with powers to decide over all local affairs and affirm/reject anything from Pristina they deem to be counterproductive.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 27 August 2015 21:51)

Of course... the ZSO can reject anything from Pristina which is not in accordance with Kosovo's Law, with Kosovo's Constitutional Court having the final say if there is a dispute.

And, of course, every Kosovo municipality is a legal entity with power to decide over all the local affairs that are in that legal entity's domain and reject anything from Pristina which is illegal.

(Brian, 28 August 2015 If they opposed Kosovo independence they would have boycott euro games and IAAF and FIna

---

Absolutely not. Please recognize when an USA athlete competes against a Puerto Rican athlete at the Olympics it does not denote that Puerto Rico is no longer a territory of the USA or that Puerto Ricans are no longer US citizens.

Until BG recognizes Kosovo there is not independence, but disputed independence.
(factman, 28 August 2015 05:17)

Yeah, of course, as every tautology. If BG disputes Kosovo's independence, then Kosovo's indepedence is disputed for BG. If Macedonia does not dispute Kosovo's independence, then Kosovo's independence is not disputed for Macedonia, and so on... :)
----------

The most difficult time for Pristina will be the agreement which documents "who owns what" in Kosovo. There is a very long list of contracts that has been assembled by BG.
(factman, 28 August 2015 05:17)

Not sure what the difficulty is! Who owns what is determined by Kosovo's Law and what the cadastral records say. Is there any parcel of land that is in dispute?

Maybe Mrs. Tahiri has a special Albanian version of the agreement which is a bit different, to make her happy? I could not read any 'Republic of Kosovo' in the English version linked in the article
(Questioner, 27 August 2015 15:49)

No, that is because the "version" posted was on the Serbian site, therefore not official, if you get my drift.

Here is the link to the wsj story where vucic says he will hold a referendum about Kosovo independence - removing it from serbias constituion!

http://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-RTBB-4928

well, well, for you guys the lies from your politicians and media is the truth.
first see this link;" [link], which speaks volumes,
(the truth, 27 August 2015 20:02)

Hey buddy, try using a link that pertains to what you want to argue. Unless your intention was to show Thaci playing football when he should have spent more time defending the sovereignty of his "country" from being carved up into Serb holdings.

Puerto Rico doesn't claim it is independent and no one recognizes it as independent. If Serbia opposed Kosovo independence it would drop out of all international sports contests. By not doing so it is being stridently pro Kosovo independence and turning its athletes into Kosovo independence ambassadors.

(factman, 28 August 2015 05:28
You are right Serbia has not made any formal recognition of Kosovo, don't know why you had to post it 3 times but whatever.
The west or (US and EU) are not requiring Serbia to do so, of course it would make things better if Serbia did, but they do not want to destabilize Serbia any more than they want Serbia to destabilize any of the other countries of the Balkans.
But what they have done is forced Serbia into a corner of cooperation with Kosovo as an equal entity.
Do you think it was just a coincidence that this was signed before the Summit of the western Balkans. A meeting with representative of the EU, where all the press mentions the meeting of the non EU "countries" where none list the names which includes Kosovo without any * notation. Even your own press speaks of the attendees as countries of the Balkans and region.
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/region.php?yyyy=2015&mm=08&dd=28&nav_id=95249

And if that were not enough both Dacic and Thaci had to get up before the group to pledge their commitment to continuing the normalization of relations between the two.
There was absolutely NO way Serbia could throw a tantrum and boycott this meeting that was set up in such a manner, at a critical time when opening of chapters is most possible.
So no they did not and do not have to recognize but they do have to stand shoulder to shoulder with Kosovo and play nice before the world.

Serbia does recognize Kosovo... as it's Southern Province! Which it will always be. Whichever Serbian name is selected, Kosovo or Kosova.

A New Day,

I travel much and signal is sometimes weak in other countries. Sorry for the triple post.

Regarding "equal entity"

"Answerer" said it below. Please see the link below from the EU. There is only one mention of the word "Republic" and it's used to describe S, not K.

http://eeas.europa.eu/statements-eeas/2015/150825_02_en.htm

Yes, S is being required to play nice, but only because K cannot grow with an antagonistic S on its borders. Everyone knows and understands this, And no one more than K.

So it seems S has now shifted gears and now accelerates the mechanisms I wrote below and uses each negotiation to strip out another piece of sovereignty from K (just as they did last week).

It's pretty clear what they are doing and its a smart strategy they hit upon IMO.

a new day and factman are the same person , i have a link too !

recently economy of Albania grow up faster than Serbia

Serbia is in recension 2012 2014 2015

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2015/01/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=60&pr.y=8&sy=2012&ey=2015&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=914%2C942&s=NGDP_RPCH&grp=0&a=

I am a Romanian from Romania an observer of the reality from Yugolslavia and it`s neigblorus

There is no Taiwan in the Olympics its Chinese tapei. Kosovo will compete as "the sovereign and independent republic of Kosovo" not "Serbian province of Kosovo" or "Kosovo*" but sovereign and independent republic of Kosovo. So how can Serbia be in rio if it is not a strident supporter of Kosovo independence?

When 63% of Serbia recognizes Kosovo as independent and Serbia elected a unanimous pro eu parliament how could Serbia be destabalized by vucic calling a Kosovo independence referendum? All Serbia Athletes now recognize kosovo as a sovereign independent nation.

icj1,

You left out the seond half of the parag (below).

In short, K cannot survive with an antagonistic S at its borders. Everyone knows this. So S is forced to play nice and to go to the negotiating table. And each time it does, it extracts another piece of sovereignty (like it did last wek).

"BG will use that disputed independence to burden and entangle Pristina in endless legal, diplomatic, administrative, economic, & interpretive impasses limiting sovereignty. These will include additional power-sharing arrangements, autonomies, parallel institutions and links to Serbia"

Yes, the cadastral records will show who owns what industry, mines, and factories.

It's pretty clear what they are doing and its a smart strategy they hit upon IMO.
(factman, 30 August 2015 01:11)
I would have guessed you a little wiser but yes it is very obvious what they are doing to everyone except those Serbs who they wish to confuse.
The only way to get the Serbia people to accept their future is to convince them that it is Serbia's win and that they are the ones forcing Kosovo (or the Albanians) away not that they are losing. But then again they have not really lost anything they did not lose in 1999 just like Kosovo is not really losing anything that they did not lose in 2008.
But the instance you give, read it again and look at the meaning. It speaks of where the association can receive money, in this case the mention of as "domestic and international as well as the Republic of Serbia. Showing that it is a separate entity.
I am sure that Serbia would not sign it as Republic of Kosovo, like I said they are not going to FORCE Serbia to recognize, only deal with Kosovo as a separate and equal entity. In the agreement Serbia has agreed that the Serbs of Kosovo will be subject to the laws of Kosovo, they have always protested that before, and the courts in north used Serbian laws.

Serbs already know they lost Kosovo that's why 63% say its independent and Serb athletes compete against Kosovo. Serbs are border guards on Kosovo border as well as customs agents. Serbs have to dial an international code while callig Kosovo. Serb is ambassador to Kosovo dejan pavicevic.

(Brian, 29 August 2015 12:02)If Serbia opposed Kosovo independence it would drop out of all international sports contests.
---

If your logic brings you to this conclusion, please explain to readers how the People's Republic of China can compete in the same Olympic Games as Taiwan?

A New Day,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

All great points for sure.

I agree with them all.

I am saying that S seems to have made a shift in tactics and was proposing it as a topic of discussion here.

Isn't that the point of a forum :)

Cheers!

(factman, 31 August 2015 21:57)
It is true, there is a shift. The goal for the first 10 years from Serbian politicians was they wanted Kosovo and that was the only way to prove they won. They did not want the Albanians, just Kosovo.
I think your present leadership does not want Kosovo, knows that they are not in a financial situation to maintain it and the fact is that there would be no peace nor economic advancement of Serbia for decades if somehow it were granted the rights to Kosovo again.
With that said, Serbs are a proud people and it is very important to make this as a win for Serbia.
The west has known this for a long time and that is exactly why patience has been played here. There was two ways to do it rip Kosovo from Serbia and exacerbate the tensions in Kosovo or give the Serbs incentives to let it go. There was no quick way to do this, it took time, there was too much sentiment for Kosovo above all else.
As have been said many times one side cannot win everything, or at least appear to win everything. That is where people like you become important. When you get on here and sing about how the Serbian side is winning and it is the Albanian side losing, then Serbs walk away feeling good about something they would have never considered before.

I wish the best for both Serbia and Kosovo but I do not believe it is possible together. But I also do not believe in any innate superiority of peoples.

A New Day,

Again, all great points.

The problem with your formulation is that it is follows the classical nation state model of establishment/ development.

There is nothing in this situation which fits that model.

In the classical model a new nation state is able to maintain and enforce its borders and sustain and provide economically.

It is questionable either can be acheived to the degree needed.

This opens up the possibility of dissolution/ absorption into another entity (Albania).

In that scenario, It would be a "leap" to think that north of the Ibar would be making the trip.

S seems to be playing toward that day.

Speculation? Perhaps. But i wouldn't downplay the viability notion quite so cavalierly.

History is far more "zig-zaggy" than your linear equation. It seems linear when we read the post-facto histories, but the day to day events are far more "zig zaggy."

I agree with your final sentences wholeheartedly.

Adrian,

We are not the same person..

We are both Americans, so it just seems to you that we are the same.

a new day and factman are the same person , i have a link too !

(adrian, 1 September 2015 14:55)
Almost spilled my coffee when I read this. If you notice our posts we are presenting different views entirely, just not in the usual crass vindictiveness of ethnic hatred.
But I think the confusion may be while we present our arguments we realize that the other may have some interesting points. In other words no argument is completely one sided.

I think debate and discussion are good, and when you have someone that does so with respect instead of the typical name calling and ethnic slurs is refreshing. But I must admit that factman is a bit more gracious than I am.
But I am 100% behind Kosovo independence, and I think that it is a bum rap for posters to expect the same level from a brand new republic that has no base, which came from being ruled by Serbia, to being ruled by a internationals to forming an independent state.
As far as the leadership in Kosovo, if you look the leaders of any revolution are the immediate leaders of a country. The first US President was General George Washington considered a criminal by England.
It will take time to form the leadership to lead Kosovo into the future. I am willing to give Kosovo that time, I do not believe factman is.