FM at UN: "Abolish either UNSCR 1244, or double standards"

Bravo Dacic!!!

What an idiotic statement by Thaci at the end of this article.

Dacic is defending his points verbally and making a very forceful and potent intellectual argument.

Thaci's reply is what a teenager might reply.

"If you're gonna recognize, then get rid of 1244"

if they dont, then the empire is composed of hypocrites who break the very law they set up and signed.

it's an interesting challenge to the international cmty.

the war has not just begun yet,Mr Thaci,but soon is coming your way,on your doorstep!!!!!!until the last of you savages are forever out of Kosovo and Metohija for good!!!!!Whose dream is over!!!!!!This is just the beginning Mr Thaci!!!!!!!Until the last of you scumbags are out!!!!!!No more negotiations,war it is!!!!!!!Who will loose,we will see!!!!!

(factman, 22 August 2015 00:40
Actually Thaci's statement was right on, the only reason Dacic wants 1244 lifted is because he thinks Serbia can move into the north and do a crimea deal. Nothing more, nothing less.
However Dacic's claims before the council sounded like the rantings of a desperate man. He once again played the innocent Serb victim card to an organization that has on many occasions verified the brutality of Serbia, the desecration of many many historical and cultural, religious sites in Kosovo in order to ethnically cleanse the Albanian population from Kosovo during the reign of terror of Milosevic. The very council he spoke before did the unprecedented action of stripping a territory from Serbia's clutches and put it under international protection with guarantees to the Kosovo people that they would be protected from slaughter from Serbian forces with an open mandate to an international security force.
In the absence of 2004 there has not been any major actions against Serb sites other than petty vandalism, that cannot be attributed to Government actions. You also have to remember that you are talking to people who had their embassies burned and vandalized by Serbs under protection of the Serbian govt, and to date no one has been punished for those crimes.

A brilliant speech by Dacic. Eloquent and true and to the point. He left Thaci to snarl. Poor Thaci had nothing to say. Nothing.

Dacic signed Brussels. He has no right to oppose Kosovo in unesco or Interpol. Eu must place sanctions on him and maybe treat him like a Russian for their ukriane actions.

Dacic & com still continue living in a fairytale? Albanians have always & continue to be the majority popukation of Kosova, and they will always remain the majority period!!! And if and when Serbia does try to start another war against the peaceful loving majority of Kosova? I oromise you this Dacia & co, either come in with a nuclear arsenal the world has never seen the likes of, because if you don't come in in that fashion I full heartedly promise you that not a single Serbian soldier will ever return back to mother Serbia, as we the Albanian nation will turn your Serbian Chetnik rats into fertilizer for our land, and turn our fields another 10 shades red with the Serbian and Albanian blood that will spill on a biblical scale!!! If your Radical-Serbia is itching for another round,of fight night, then we the 7 million of us with our donkey brigades will gladly accept your challenge!! You European parasite, we've bleed empires dry, we've held strong our culture language, traditions, waybof life against powers the likes of Persia ,Rome, the ottomans! Let alone little maggot like Serbia!!!

Well said mr Dacic! You hit the nail right on the albanians thick skulls. Thacis response was nothing short of pathetic. But what else can you expect from these backward albanian savages.

with the future on Serbia's side (China Russia) the war has yet to began.

All you Albanian's keep taking about what Milosevic did,but Milosevic is not in power he is gone .It is a different Serbia from 2001 when I visit Serbia to now 2115. Belgrade is a modern city like the other European capitals.
But Kosovo is still the same poverty ,poeple 90 ℅ living in ghettoes ,poverty.You Albanian's living in the Western countries need to get real and go a live and work for awage in Kosovo for alest 1 year without your Western money and then giving your opion about the misery of Kosovo where poor poeple of all nationally's live.
P.s. why would 10 ℅ Albanian population leave the Kosovo paradise in the last 2 years.Alot of people give their idea without living in Kosovo are Idiot's.
(sasa.p, 22 August 2015 11:32)

Sasa p, stop it with your whining! For the same exact reason your 30% Serb population from Serbia has left! At least statistics are not showing Albanians not existing in Kosova by 2050 unlike statistics for Serbia that show their won't be a single Serb left!!!

I guess B92 diden't have the guts to show Thaci's respons to Dacic. He put him in place!

You start a war you lose it! Boy these Albanians have no idea if the West did not attack Serbia, in one of the biggest lies ever committed by Clinton Admin, Albania would not exist today.thaci get a life man you are an idiot a puppet.

Dacic is defending his points verbally and making a very forceful and potent intellectual argument.

-- Nothing Dacic said is intellectual. It's the same tired words of a bitter Serb. A destroyer of religious institutions cannot ask for the denial of a different party to be part of the same club the destroyer of religious institutions is a member of, on the basis that the other party has destroyed religious instutions; and be expected to be taken seriously. The analogy would be if ISIS was a UNESCO member and complained that Serbia cannot be a member because it has destroyed religious institutions. Nonsense. Dacic has started to figure out that he may not be in the government for too long so now all of a sudden he is the "exemplary" Serb "patriot".

All you Albanian's keep taking about what Milosevic did,but Milosevic is not in power he is gone .It is a different Serbia from 2001 when I visit Serbia to now 2115. Belgrade is a modern city like the other European capitals.
But Kosovo is still the same poverty ,poeple 90 ℅ living in ghettoes ,poverty.You Albanian's living in the Western countries need to get real and go a live and work for awage in Kosovo for alest 1 year without your Western money and then giving your opion about the misery of Kosovo where poor poeple of all nationally's live.
P.s. why would 10 ℅ Albanian population leave the Kosovo paradise in the last 2 years.Alot of people give their idea without living in Kosovo are Idiot's.

He should stop barking.

I encourage all to view the webcast on the UNSC website. In it Dacic was very rude, arrogant and disrespectful. He made a personal attack on the UNSC representative of Jordan. He also said that Serbia would be watching to see which countries voted yes for Kosovo in UNESCO.
He came across most like North Korea's Kim, than anyone else I can think of.
Nothing he said could be construed as Serbia actually working toward peace.
Today he fully earned the name of "little Slobo"

Ivicia turnt up for elections hahah
He knows Kosovo is long gone

You don't belong in our United Nations - get out now!
(roberto, 22 August 2015 05:29)

little boy talk from a 60 year old has-been.

One very ironic point and it proves the extent of lying that Dacic will go to is first his reference to the fact that Eulex should retain jurisdiction of all war crime cases and NOT turn them over to the local judiciary and then second he highlights the injustice that Ivanovic is receiving at the hands of the local judiciary. The case against Ivanovic was investigated by EULEX, presented for indictment by EULEX, is being prosecuted by EULEX and is being heard by judiciary solely comprised of EULEX. He is receiving NO ill treatment or any treatment for that matter from the local judiciary.

Talk about double standards. The Serbian desecrated there own (property) citizens (and more properly) ( assets) including religious buildings and artifacts and rewrite the history of Yugoslavia and former provinces and yet to apologise. Go figure, who believes this rubbish

"If you're gonna recognize, then get rid of 1244"

if they dont, then the empire is composed of hypocrites who break the very law they set up and signed.

it's an interesting challenge to the international cmty.
(factman, 22 August 2015 00:40)

Not sure where the challenge is!!!

Kosovo declared independence in accordance with international law and UNSCR 1244 and 110+ countries have decided to recognize that declaration. Everything is crystal clear (thanks to a certain Vuk) so not sure where you see the challenge or the breaking of the law (which law, btw? Serbia's law?)

I have the perfect solution for Dacic and his Chetniks - leave the United Nations. Your policies and strategies have nothing to do with international justice, and everything to do with narrow nationalistic goals, and the cover-up and justification of your multiple genocides by constantly accusing others. You only continue the fascist aims and tactics of the Milosevic govt, in which you served. You still try to cover up the mass graves, the mass industrialized burnings of bodies, your mass murderers.

You don't belong in our United Nations - get out now!

did he say prizren was the capital of Serbia? hahaha so it was Ionnina the capital of Albania, under Greece now. So it was Constantinople the capital of Rome, under Turkey now...how about you go to you remoter russia, they got plenty of unpopulated land there, the whole serbia nation can fit in russian territory

To think about it
You are wrong,I have moved my family and leave in Serbia from Australia. I have family still living in Kosovo from my father's side,and have travel 100's times to visit since I been living in Serbia last 18 months.Serbia is like paradise compare to Kosovo.I am sick and tired of people that write on this site and never lived in the Balkans and give their mind.I have lived in Australia for last 40 odd years since I was 4 years old .I can give my mind on the Balkans because I has lived and stayed for exactly 21 months in the Balkans.
When people like myself have walk ,sang and eat with Albanian's, Serb's, Montenegro's,Croatian's and Macedonian's can talk what is going in the Balkans,not people sitting in Western countries most likely on unemployment benefits.

In 1991 in Kosovo Censes state there were 194,190, this time Kosovo was under Serbian Milosevic rule, so no reason for Serbs to disputed.

Let's say that population growth 2/1000 or 0.002( this is taken from positive last year in Serbia,) 194,000 x 0.002 = 390 people and lets say for next 8 years no one died or moved ~3900 people born bringing total to 198,000 or say 200,000 people.

200,000 -100,000 that PM says are living in Kosovo this makes it 100,000 people - 50,000 police, army ... we are talking 50,000 Serbs displaced who after 16 years not sure want to return but let them return if they have not killed or raped.

So not sure Serbian FM, which is from Slobos party should talk about burning and killing and raping. Austria joined UNESCO before being UN Member and Kosovo is part of IMF which is also a UN organisation. Interpol would be great as it means that Police between both countries/Areas can work together to capture criminals at least try to stop.

the war has not just begun yet,Mr Thaci,but soon is coming your way,on your doorstep!!!!!!until the last of you savages are forever out of Kosovo and Metohija for good!!!!!Whose dream is over!!!!!!This is just the beginning Mr Thaci!!!!!!!Until the last of you scumbags are out!!!!!!No more negotiations,war it is!!!!!!!Who will loose,we will see!!!!!
(skyrezo, 22 August 2015 01:04)

skyrezo,
You were probably not born yet at the time of the Kosovo war in 1999 which explains your lack of common knowledge concrning the war. All Serb military, Mup and paramilitaries were gelded before being allowed to leave Kosovo. It's all in UN Res. 1244. There is not a single testicle remaining among all Serb belligerents that were in Kosovo in 1999. You may wonder what became of all those nuts, well, the next time you attend a Slava you will finally learn what those little pickled meze are that you crave so much. So, the next time you start feeling feisty, chill out or else you might find your own nuts being served at your next Slava.

A New Day,

You make some great points for sure. I do not minimize them.

But what about 1244?

You must agree that its an interesting challenge that he posed.

(sasa.p, 22 August 2015 11:32)
It is true Milosevic, himself is gone. But before he left he destroyed all the infrastructure in Kosovo, he made it what it is. And then his henchmen have spent the last 15 years using every bit of energy they have to keep it down. You say for people to go to Kosovo and work for the wages there and see what it is like. None of the Serbs on this English site are living and working in Serbia and none of them would trade their wages for the salary of Serbia. Serbia should be decades more advanced than Kosovo due to the situation but it is not.

But what about 1244?

You must agree that its an interesting challenge that he posed.
(factman, 22 August 2015 02:11
part 2.
I do agree that it is time to repeal 1244, and if Dacic is serious as I doubt he his then it would pave the way for it.
But remember both the EU and NATO have made a commitment to the defense and development of Kosovo and that will not change as a NATO peace keeping force would be invited to stay by the Kosovo govt, which UNMIK has turned its authority over to. And any chance that Dacic thinks he could do a Crimea replay would be stopped in its tracks. It would not only end any consultations of hopes of EU but it would also mean economic and political sanctions, which Serbia is NOT strong enough to endure.

If you remember it was the west who has been in favor of removing 1244 and Russia was the block so it has not ever been presented. So if Serbia gives a definite yes, it will happen. But don't expect that in the near future.

hahaha so it was Ionnina the capital of Albania, under Greece now.
(eric, 22 August 2015 18:11)

Ioannina is as much an Albanian city as Epidamnos, or Dyrrhachion, Argyrokastro,Vlora,Appolonia,Chimera,Agioi Saranda etc.For illiterate Albanians like yourself, Ioannina means " the city of St John".
Furthermore,when the Roman invasion of Epirus in Ancient Greece occurred, the Romans didn't fight any "Albanians ", but the three native Greek tribes of Epirus: the Thesprotians, the Chaonians and the Molossians.

This is a balkans mentality
after the UNSC thaqi and dacic they were together in the nightclub and you guys fighting who is better thaqi or dacic both have business together ist all about money

icj1,

1. You rather liberally throw around the words "international community"
2. The only voice for the international cmty is UNSC (as is specified in the UN Charter)
3. If it is like you say, then why ask Serbia ro recognize?
4. Why ask that it change its constitution?
5. What passports are being used?
6. What is the international calling code?
7. If it is like you say it is, why not just go about your business and ignore Serbia?

The reason is because it is not like you say.

The problem with you is that one cant have an intellectual discussion without you being deceitful.

THe UNSC speaks for the international community. Period.

But what about 1244?

You must agree that its an interesting challenge that he posed.
(factman, 22 August 2015 02:11
Not really have you read, I mean fully read res 1244. It was written in 1999 and said what was to take place immediately and then it lays the ground work to building a functional Kosovo. It does not prejudge whether that future be in Serbia or independent. But it is a working document. 1st was the disarmament of all sides and the forced removal of all Serb forces then the establishment of an international civilian presence and security presence.
Then it outlines how the civilian presence will take immediate control of the government and train the locals in how to rule themselves. Then as the provisional institutions of Kosovo become competent then (UNMIK) is to turn over its responsibilities to the Kosovo govt. Until there is a final settlement then UNMIK is to oversee the transfer of power from the provisional govt to the final govt.
The source of contradiction in the two sides should be that whether the present government is the provisional one or the final one.110 countries say that it is the final one. The resolution itself does not determine what makes the final status settlement. But more than half the countries currently side with Kosovo.
The problem is that Serbia cannot get past the initial part of Kosovo where it is still supposed to be under UNMIK rule. part 1

icj1,

1. You rather liberally throw around the words "international community"
2. The only voice for the international cmty is UNSC (as is specified in the UN Charter)
3. If it is like you say, then why ask Serbia ro recognize?
4. Why ask that it change its constitution?
5. What passports are being used?
6. What is the international calling code?
7. If it is like you say it is, why not just go about your business and ignore Serbia?

The reason is because it is not like you say.

The problem with you is that one cant have an intellectual discussion without you being deceitful.

THe UNSC speaks for the international community. Period.

A New Day,

Sorry, I dont read this the same way as you.

First, Belgrade doesnt want to scrap 1244, they want to keep it. The Crimea scenario is interesting, but it would never fly. Serbia doesn't have the muscle to fight againt the EU.

Next, Sure, I follow and agree with what you say about provisional and final government.

But I don't land in the same spot. Here's why:

Sure, 1244 says to authorize the UN to facilitate a political process to determine Kosovo's future status.

And it even It says to take into consideration the Rambouillet Agreement and the "will of the people of Kosovo" as guiding principles in defining Kosovo's status.

I agree on all this.

But in numerous places it re-affirms Serbia's sovereignity and territorial integrity while also explicitly calling for "substantial autonomy and meaningful self-administration."

It is a contradictory document and Gordian Knot.

And that's why a declaration of independence was declared (because Pristina cant land there through 1244). Its a Gordian Knot. Stalemate.

I have lived in Australia for last 40 odd years since I was 4 years old .I can give my mind on the Balkans because I has lived and stayed for exactly 21 months in the Balkans.
(sasa.p, 22 August 2015 22:59)

sasa.p,
Sorry, no offense intended but, judging by your English, it seems you've never left the Balkans.

Oh, please stop already with chetniks comment. They were the elite units in both wars fighting the German dark forces . Tito's commies spread the lies and now the Albanians and other left over German collaborators in both wars are trying the same. Just the other day, my American friend and neighbor said "Serbs were the only true western forces' allies in both World Wars but our corrupt American politicians sold them out in recent history for a fistful of Norco dollars, starting with Clinton and old man Senator McCain. Everything changes in a couple of decades, specially when regular Americans start pushing their politicians toward truth and justice.Also, Washington is scared to death of Russia establishing herself in a middle of the Balkans.So, there you have it, boys and girls.

Thaci asserted that "Albanians have always been the majority in Kosovo"

That's true, and ethnic Serbs the minority. And Serbs have been always the majority in Serbia, and Kosovo Albanians an ethnic minority within Serbia. Serbs have always been the majority in northern Kosovo and in other regions - they still are nowadays in northern Kosovo. What does that tell us? Not much.

Ali Pashe Tepelena was fighting the Ottomans.

No he wasn't. He was an Albanian pimp who became a pasha through extortions,intrigues and murders.

http://www.britannica.com/biography/Ali-Pasa-Tepelene

Second- plenty of Orthodox Albanians in Greece. Both Cams and Arvanite.

Chronologically speaking, Epirus was Epirus long before the Albanians settled in "Chameria".Epirus was known as such since Odysseus's era, if not earlier. Chameria was a term invented during the Ottoman era and applied much later, when the Albanians settled in the region.
You better stop using the silly term 'Orthodox Albanians' for the Orthodox Arvanite populations who were forced to leave Albania and relocate in Greece (1350-1600)as a result of Ottoman conquests in the Balkans.In fact the idea of calling an Arvanite as Albanian is very offensive in Greece.Albanians also tend to exagerate the numbers of Arvanites after the creation of the first Greek state.Arvanites were less 10% of the total population of Greece in 19th century out of a total population of 2.500.000. This is attested by the eminent Albanologist Johan Georg Von Hahn in his book "Albansesische studien" (1854) page 34

Its not just Greeks that didn't view Epiriotes as a Greek tribe. I mentioned the Romans for a reason.

Could you tell where I can go and read about this, as I am awfully intrigued.Please ensure that he's not Albanian or half-Albanian.

I don't claim anything ,I am just quoting facts.Greeks don't claim anything Albanians do and neither historiography nor archaeology support what Albanian claims.I am still waiting to see any world historian conferring any validation on those claims.
(Leonidas, 24 August 2015 10:24)

Sir:
I respectfully request you provide verification of your assertions. Since you claim you just quoting facts, it shouldn't be difficult to give concrete evidence from at least three leading world historians conferring validation on your claims. Thanking you in advance for documentation of your assertions.

This is a balkans mentality
after the UNSC thaqi and dacic they were together in the nightclub and you guys fighting who is better thaqi or dacic both have business together ist all about money

This reaction by this fat windbag Dacic is just typical Serb blustering, underneath their fragile pride is a huge inferiority complex. They have shown themselves to be paper tigers on many occasions. Deep down they know who is in the driver's seat.

You start a war you lose it! Boy these Albanians have no idea if the West did not attack Serbia, in one of the biggest lies ever committed by Clinton Admin, Albania would not exist today.thaci get a life man you are an idiot a puppet.
(DANNYUSA, 22 August 2015 18:11)

What worry Danny boy did Serbia win to get Vojvodina? So it is ok for you to have Vojvodina with help of Russia but the rest have to fight fair.

You lost the war no one says you have to fight alone to be triumphant! You also lost war in Croatia and still cry about it. You claim Kosovo as you lost a battle in 1389 but complain that Albanians won the war with help of US :)

To victor go the spoils - eat your heart out Danny boy

(sasa.p, 22 August 2015 22:59)
Oh wise one who has lived beyond his years, it is very hard to believe what you profess.
To all the other Serbs here in the west you heard it here, Serbia is a paradise, quit your 4000+ a month jobs, you can live like kings in Nivana also known as Serbia on jobs that pay less than 400 per month.

Should you be a politician with unlimited travel resources and most probably villas in other countries as escape retreats in the event of a regime change this may be true, for ordinary citizens I doubt it.

But I will give you that life in Kosovo is bleak and probably will not improve until the EU and US can fully sever all ties to Serbia, and make sure that any more interference will be costly. I am positive that day is coming, and probably more quickly after the show of Dacic this last week.
I will let you get back to your life of 21 or 18 months which ever it is and enjoy.

By the way to enjoy unemployment benefits, at least in the US, means that you have at least worked. I too lived in the Balkans for about 39 months and talked extensively to the people and sampled much of the food and explored many of the local cultural activities that are so unique to the area.

Greeks think they are ancient Greeks still hahaha.

Most of the Albanian posters don't have the intelligence to put 2 + 2 together and come up with 4. All they know to do is reply with "HAHAHA" and then respond with rhetoric and finish with LOL.

On a more serious note No serious historian would ever claim that modern peoples are direct descendants of ancient peoples.What really matters is continuation (e.g. culture, language, occasionally religion) which ensures the historical sense of an evolving community through time.In other words, modern Greeks have those features enabling them to look back to antiquity

Janina was the capital of Medieval Albania, Epirus.

There wasn't any medieval Albania.Thre was an Ottoman Empire though- at least that is what Ottoman archives and log books are saying.

Ali Pasha control Epirus during Medieval fighting against Turks a

Ali Pasha was an Ottoman vassal whose job was to control the Greek klephts and the Christian populations at large and when he decided to go against the Ottoman Hursid Pasha he was beheaded.Nothing more deserved by a humanoid killer.

There were no ancient Greeks hahaha

Indeed.Modern Greeks landed from a spaceship 175 years ago.The same ship spirited away all the ancient Greeks and their descendants into another planet.Cheap Albanian propaganda- almost identical the the one applied by the government of Fyrom.The Greek nation is one and of course the oldest in Europe,but it's still one.

Greek tribes of Epirus

-- @ Leonidad. The tribes of Epirus weren't viewed as Greeks by their own Greek contemporaries. Greek historians called them barbarians, just like they called any foreign, non-greek tribe. As a matter of fact the Romans and to this day the Italians do not equate Epirus with Greek tribes.
Nice try but Greeks were not the only people in existence in the Balkans. I will agree with you though that some Albanian towns were founded by Greeks, but then again some of Greek towns were majority Albanian until the death of Ali Pashe Tepelena. Such is the history of the Balkans. Always fluid. It has always been this way. To claim that things only moved one way is total idiotsy, as it invalidates your own claims of victimhood toward your neighbors. For you to have suffered, someone must have won during that time, and that means influence in culture, customs, new villages, towns, movement of populations etc etc. So relax and enjoy the summer.

What time is it at the General Assembly when the Serbian FM gets up to make a speech? Lunchtime. Nobody cares what your FM has to say or anybody in your government for that matter. You are a disgraced nation that has lost all credibility in the international community. I bet you could hear a chuckle throughout the EU Parliament when Serbia submitted it's bid to join the EU. Consider what's going on now as your punishment for your atrocious war crimes. When will you learn that America is your Daddy?

Kosovo may be considered to be many different things. Independent? Certainly not.

The pace of recognitions is slowing, not gaining momentum (at this pace...)
(factman, 24 August 2015 15:39)

EUREKA!!! How did you figure that out :) Let me tell you another secret that will make the most patriotic of Serbs rejoice... It is a FACT that sooner or later the pace of recognitions will come to a halt! It's not a matter of if, but when lol
----------

Two veto holding members remain dug-in at UNSC (and seem to be re-establishing a bi-polar world)
(factman, 24 August 2015 15:39)

Sure, but the veto only serves to block an action by the UNSC; it does nothing to make the UNSC act... And the UNSC has already acted on Kosovo with UNSCR 1244, so that ship has sailed.
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Wildcards: RS; Future world events/ developments
(factman, 24 August 2015 15:39)

Of course, and I can add a few other wildcards like an asteroid hitting Earth and sending us all (or our children) to the creator lol So let's enjoy the present...

(factman, 23 August 2015 07:39)
I think we are in agreement that Resolution 1244 is a contradictory document, it begins with a statement that they are committed to the territorial integrity of the Fry, then it goes into a gameplan of exactly how it will sever all the control of Serbia from Kosovo leaving in name only.
And I agree Serbia does not want to dismantle 1244 as it is the last thread of control over Kosovo. If nothing else it gives Serbia a stage every 3 months or rather a soap box to say before the world that Kosovo is Serbia eventhough more than half the audience has declared otherwise.
It is obvious that there will be no unified response to Kosovo coming out of the UNSC showing that it has become an ineffective organ.
But the reality on the ground is that Kosovo independence and membership in international organs is advancing while at the same time the security presence in Kosovo prevents any type of military response.
Yes we disagree where res 1244 "lands" but you have to admit that in order to use 1244 to block anything would take a further action of the UNSC and that will not happen anytime soon. Acceptance in international organizations is happening more and more and Serbia cannot stop it. Because all of them rely on votes by members and the wording of their individual charters. There is nothing clear cut in 1244 that endorses or prohibits it. The UN admits members, it does not establish statehood.

icj1,
1. You rather liberally throw around the words "international community"
(factman, 23 August 2015 06:45)

I did not mention the words "international community" in this page!
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2. The only voice for the international cmty is UNSC (as is specified in the UN Charter)
(factman, 23 August 2015 06:45)

Yup and if I use the word "international community" that's what I mean - but thanks for confirming
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3. If it is like you say, then why ask Serbia ro recognize?
(factman, 23 August 2015 06:45)

sorry, but I have no idea what the above means! Who did ask whom and where to recognize what... So I have no idea how the above has anything to do with or contradicts what I wrote.
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4. Why ask that it change its constitution?
(factman, 23 August 2015 06:45)

again, I have no idea what the above means! Who did ask whom and where to change the constitution of what? So I have no idea how the above has anything to do with or contradicts what I wrote.
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5. What passports are being used? \
(factman, 23 August 2015 06:45)

whose passports being used by whom and where? details mate, details... You just state empty words that mean nothing

But in numerous places it re-affirms Serbia's sovereignity and territorial integrity while also explicitly calling for "substantial autonomy and meaningful self-administration."

It is a contradictory document and Gordian Knot.
(factman, 23 August 2015 07:39)

There is no contradiction at all, except for those who want to be confused :) we're flogging a dead horse here...

First, it's international law 101; the scope of the principle of territorial integrity is confined to the sphere of relations between States. Serbia will have to first recognize Kosovo as a state and only then it may be able to claim (whether correctly or incorrectly) that Kosovo has done something that violates Serbia's territorial integrity.

Second, as for the call for "substantial autonomy and meaningful self-administration" that was "pending a final settlement", not the final settlement itself. 1244 is status neutral because 1244 does not contain any provision dealing with the final status of Kosovo or with the conditions for its achievement.

So no Kosovo actions are in contradiction with 1244.
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And that's why a declaration of independence was declared (because Pristina cant land there through 1244). Its a Gordian Knot. Stalemate.
(factman, 23 August 2015 07:39)

Not sure who or what is on stalemate, what Gordian knot you are referring to and where did you want Pristina to land through 1244!!! You are so confused mate... take a deep breath and collect your thoughts lol

(j,

The tribes of Epirus weren't viewed as Greeks by their own Greek contemporaries. Greek historians called them barbarians, just like they called any foreign, non-greek tribe.

If you want to convince me that Epirotes were not Greek because Thucydides called them barbarians, first you have to convince me (and the world) that:
1. Aristogeiton was not Greek because Demosthenes called him a barbarian
2.Demosthenes was not Greek because Aeschines called him a barbarian
3. The Eleans were not Greek because Stratonicus called them barbarians
4. The Thessalians were not Greek because Hegesander called them barbarians.
5. The Aeoleans were not Greek because Prodicus called them barbarians.
6. Strepsiades was not Greek because Socrates called him a barbarian.

but then again some of Greek towns were majority Albanian until the death of Ali Pashe Tepelena

The fact that Muslim Albanians were imported by the Ottomans into Greek cities in order to change the demographics and control the Christian populations doesn't give the Albanians any rights to call those cities as Albanian ones in the slightest.

To claim that things only moved one way is total idiotsy,

I don't claim anything ,I am just quoting facts.Greeks don't claim anything Albanians do and neither historiography nor archaeology support what Albanian claims.I am still waiting to see any world historian conferring any validation on those claims.

icj1,

Semantics game.

Let me boil it down to two questions for you:

1. If everything is as you say it is, and Kosovo is independent why then is Serbia being asked to remove Kosovo from its constitution and recognize it?

2. And why have 45% of the countries of the world not endorsed that independence? Is it for love and friendship of Serbia?

PS: UNSC does not agree that it is independent and UNSC speaks for the international community (as stated in the charter of UN).

No he wasn't. He was an Albanian pimp who became a pasha through extortions,intrigues and murders.

-- Read your own links before you send them. It clearly states there that he acted as a sovereign disobeying the empire and was recognized as such by the great powers. I didn't say he was a good man. I said he fought the empire.

Epirus was Epirus long before the Albanians settled in "Chameria".

-- Doesn't mean anything, its a simple movement of populations, whether this was 2000 years ago, or 600 years ago. The passing of time doesn't make it wrong or right. That was my point. Migration is migration no matter when it happened.

You better stop using the silly term 'Orthodox Albanians' for the Orthodox Arvanite populations who were forced to leave Albania and relocate in Greece (1350-1600)as a result of Ottoman conquests in the Balkans.In fact the idea of calling an Arvanite as Albanian is very offensive in Greece.

-- I've met a few. They tell the Greeks its offensive, they complain to Albanians the Greeks have oppressed them and can only speak their language in their homes. They are no different than the Albanians who migrated in Italy at the same time.

Could you tell where I can go and read about this,

-- At work now so I have no time to look for links, but even to this day Italians refer to distinguished Albanians with terms such as Prince of Epirus. Doesn't mean Epirus was Albanian;but it isn't for sure those tribes were Greek either.

I said he fought the empire.

No he didn't. The reason he was given the various Pashaliks by the Ottomans was that he was acting on behalf of their interests.When he tried to act as a sovereign he had his fate sealed.

Doesn't mean anything, its a simple movement of populations, whether this was 2000 years ago, or 600 years ago.

It doesn't mean anything now,does it?The Albanian posters on this site never miss the chance to remind us that thy're the oldest race ever to preside over the Balkans.

They tell the Greeks its offensive, they complain to Albanians the Greeks have oppressed them and can only speak their language in their homes.

That's a crude lie.I grew up and went to school with some of them and the only spoken language was Greek.It's also a fact that when Albanian immigrants started arriving in Greece en mass in the early 1990s they were not allowed to settle in villages inhabited by Arvnites.

At work now so I have no time to look for links

I was pretty sure you couldn't because there isn't any link.You just reminds me of those fables in which small animals brag about their imaginary achievements in the absence of the big animals.Lets leave it into that.

To count of Kosovo,
Your mistaken, My wife teachers English language ,I am a Civil Engineer ,and with two incomes in total of 1000 euros in the Balkans ,you live very well and can travel threw Europe on holidays. Serbia in Belgrade or Novi Sad is like paradise compare to leaving in hell (Kosovo),.

To count of Kosovo,
Your mistaken, My wife teachers English language ,I am a Civil Engineer ,and with two incomes in total of 1000 euros in the Balkans ,you live very well and can travel threw Europe on holidays. Serbia in Belgrade or Novi Sad is like paradise compare to leaving in hell (Kosovo),.
(sasa.p, 24 August 2015 20:08)

sasa.p,
Whenever anyone states their salary online, one can be sure that their true salary is only 25% of that quoted. Nevertheless, even if you are truthful, two salaries totaling 1000 euros per month is only slightly more than the average for two salaries. Unless you spend your holidays with your cousins in a one room flat in Russia and eat out of garbage bins, you will not be able to afford a visit to Europe. I, very often, travel through out Europe for my job, therefore, I know what it costs to travel. I doubt you will be able to travel with any style unless you rob a bank. If by chance you manage to get to Western Europe, you will be forced to live on a much lower level than you do in Serbia. Don't waste your time and money trying to act like a jet setter, you will be sadly disappointed. My advice for a vacation is to pack a lunch and go visit Marko Milosevic's Bambi Land in Pozarevac.

6. What is the international calling code?
(factman, 23 August 2015 06:45)

The international calling code of what? Russia? Russia uses Kazakhstan's :) But, again, I have no idea how the above has anything to do with or contradicts what I wrote
----------

7. If it is like you say it is, why not just go about your business and ignore Serbia?
(factman, 23 August 2015 06:45)

Why me writing about Serbia is in contradiction with what I said?! Mate, your arguments lack any logical connection!!!
----------

The reason is because it is not like you say
(factman, 23 August 2015 06:45)

Why?! You did not explain any of your reasoning lol
----------

The problem with you is that one cant have an intellectual discussion without you being deceitful.
(factman, 23 August 2015 06:45)

I have no doubt that one like you can't have an intellectual discussion... It's enough to see what you wrote above to have a confirmation of that!
----------

THe UNSC speaks for the international community. Period.
(factman, 23 August 2015 06:45)

Yeah, but I did not say anything to the contrary :) So not sure what your point is other than confirming something that we both agree with!

The fact that Muslim Albanians were imported by the Ottomans into Greek cities in order to change the demographics and control the Christian populations doesn't give the Albanians any rights to call those cities as Albanian ones in the slightest.

To claim that things only moved one way is total idiotsy,

I don't claim anything ,I am just quoting facts.Greeks don't claim anything Albanians do and neither historiography nor archaeology support what Albanian claims.I am still waiting to see any world historian conferring any validation on those claims.
(Leonidas, 24 August 2015 10:24)

First of all. Ali Pashe Tepelena was fighting the Ottomans. You don't want to recognize this because you weren't doing any fighting back then. As proof of this one only need to know that the Ottomans were parading his head around the Empire when they finally killed him. It's not convenient for you to admit that Albanians in Greece, not Greeks, were fighting the empire during his time.

Second- plenty of Orthodox Albanians in Greece. Both Cams and Arvanite. You're being devious.

Third- Its not just Greeks that didn't view Epiriotes as a Greek tribe. I mentioned the Romans for a reason.Because modern Greeks, under the elixir of Megali Idea like to claim that anything that roamed the Balkans back then was Greek.

--Fourth- The fact that Greek immigrants from 2000 years ago settled in our land doesn't give the Greeks any rights to call these cities Greek in the slightest.

A New Day,

Thanks for the thoughtful reaponse. Agreed on all points.

I would only add the following:

The pace of recognitions is slowing, not gaining momentum (at this pace...)

The economic health of either party will influence the "flavor" of the final outcome more than anyone cares to realize (with the understanding that "facts on the ground" are more important than anything else)

Two veto holding members remain dug-in at UNSC (and seem to be re-establishing a bi-polar world)

Wildcards: RS; Future world events/ developments

icj1,

Semantics game.
(factman, 24 August 2015 15:00)

semantics game what ? no idea what you mean :)
----------

Let me boil it down to two questions for you:
(factman, 24 August 2015 15:00)

Good, I hope you have finally collected and crystalized your thoughts...
----------

1. If everything is as you say it is, and Kosovo is independent why then is Serbia being asked to remove Kosovo from its constitution and recognize it?
(factman, 24 August 2015 15:00)

Who is asking Serbia to remove Kosovo from its constitution and recognize it and what does that have to do with what I said or with Kosovo being independent?!
----------

2. And why have 45% of the countries of the world not endorsed that independence? Is it for love and friendship of Serbia?
(factman, 24 August 2015 15:00)

Feel free to ask them (if they care about it) :) Not sure though what that has anything to do with what I said... Mate, you have serious challenges in establishing a logical chain of connections in your arguments
----------

PS: UNSC does not agree that it is independent and UNSC speaks for the international community (as stated in the charter of UN).
(factman, 24 August 2015 15:00)

Well, can you please provide a reference to a UNSC Resolution or Presidential Statement stating that the UNSC "does not agree that Kosovo is independent"?

PS: UNSC does not agree that it is independent and UNSC speaks for the international community (as stated in the charter of UN).
(factman, 24 August 2015 15:00)
This is one of those "is the glass half full or half empty" scenarios.
True the UNSC does not agree that it is independent, but the UNSC also does not agree that it is NOT independent either. So as for speaking for the "international community" it only says that they have No official stance on the independence of Kosovo.
You cannot insist on status neutrality and then also insist that neutrality means it sides with Serbia on the subject.

Greeks think they are ancient Greeks still hahaha. Why do you skip Medieval Period. Janina was the capital of Medieval Albania, Epirus. Ali Pasha control Epirus during Medieval fighting against Turks and his head was cut of by the Turks brought to Istambul. There were no ancient Greeks, the people that controlled the Eastern Roman Empire were called Romaoi then magically they started call them selfs helens which is not even a race, was just a mythical girl name hahaha

It is very interesting to read everyones version of history and who was on what land 10,000 years ago and who controlled what and which ethnic groups originated from which historic peoples. But you know what, none of that is worth the effort put into writing it in 2015.
But it has opened my eyes as I always thought that history as I was taught was accurate, now I see so many versions with people swearing theirs is right, I don't think anyone has a true picture or will ever know.

To count of Kosovo,
Your mistaken, My wife teachers English language ,I am a Civil Engineer ,and with two incomes in total of 1000 euros in the Balkans ,you live very well and can travel threw Europe on holidays. Serbia in Belgrade or Novi Sad is like paradise compare to leaving in hell (Kosovo),.
(sasa.p, 24 August 2015 20:08)
I really cannot tell if this post is a joke or not. If you are serious the you have to be lying. Your wife teaches English, you were able to get a degree in civil engineering at a school in Australia which is 100% English language and you write like someone who has not finished a basic course in English. Just too hokey to believe.
You may be able to live comfortably in Serbia for 1000 a month but traveling though Europe, not possible.

icj1

* Kosovo isn't independent but disputed territory with little sovereignty (the true measure of independence)

* You say "K declared independence in accordance with intn’l law & 1244"
False. 1244 affirms the territorial integrity & sovereignty of Serbia. Nor do the words "status neutral" exist in 1244, they are a wishful construct

* You say "110 countries recognized". So what? This is not a measure of independence

* Worldwide there is no agreement on what this “independence” even is. In DC, Berlin & Paris it means independent. In Beijing, Tel Aviv & Bombay it means occupied. You say true; they say false. That kind of independence + $1 will buy you a pack of chewing gum

* Until BG recognizes Kosovo (which requires a national referendum to remove it from its constitution), there is not independence, but disputed independence - a manufactured, fabricated, and supervised façade burdened with power sharing, local autonomy, parallel institutions, continued BG links, & entanglements in endless legal, diplomatic, administrative, economic, & interpretive impasses limiting sovereignty

* Kosovo does not have sovereignty, and therefore it does not have independence

* Each subsequent agreement w Serbia further weakens that sovereignty (independence). Only yesterday, Mitrovica became quasi-independent with its own flag (tied to Pristina by nothing)

The "independence" you speak of is full of holes & not real. Its fabricated (just like you)

If Serbia asks to abolish 1244 then all sorted...))) So we will not have "double standards"...))))

(factman, 24 August 2015 15:39)
I can agree with what you wrote.
As far as pace of recognitions, I think you and I both know that there is only 3 recognitions that play any importance at this point. Those being Russia, China, and Serbia, anything else is just fluff.
whether those will ever happen or not, we will have to see. At this point, I would not gamble either way.
But the focus at this time should be on international organizations. Which has gained momentum.

As far as veto wielding countries. I think that is showing that it has pretty much shown that the UNSC is totally ineffective on any subject of the world that involves any of the 5 parties. Not sure that is a good representive for the world.

A New Day,

Also agreed.

But in response, I add that for every action, there is a reaction.

It is predictable that Serbia will counter with devices that seek to lessen sovreignty (effectively neutralizing independence).

Independence without sovreignty is not independence.

* Kosovo isn't independent but disputed territory with little sovereignty (the true measure of independence)
(factman, 26 August 2015 14:46)

I'm not disputing that according to you Kosovo isn't independent lol
--------

* You say "K declared independence in accordance with intn’l law & 1244"
False.
(factman, 26 August 2015 14:46)

Why is it false?! Because you say so?!
--------

1244 affirms the territorial integrity & sovereignty of Serbia.
(factman, 26 August 2015 14:46)

Ok, and then what? By declaring independence Kosovo did not violate 1244... So not sure what's the point that you are trying to make!
-------

Nor do the words "status neutral" exist in 1244, they are a wishful construct
(factman, 26 August 2015 14:46)

Ok, make sure to educate the Serbian Government about that
--------

* You say "110 countries recognized". So what? This is not a measure of independence
(factman, 26 August 2015 14:46)

Who said that's a measure of independence?
--------

* Until BG recognizes Kosovo there is not independence, but disputed independence
(factman, 26 August 2015 14:46)

Sure, disputed by Serbia but not disputed by 110+ other countries. If your goal is to be able to say that Kosovo is disputed, by all means do it - there is freedom of speech!
--------

The "independence" you speak of is full of holes & not real
(factman, 26 August 2015 14:46)

And then what?! I don't see Kosovo rushing to give it up because it isn't "real" :)

To count of Kosovo,
Your mistaken, My wife teachers English language ,I am a Civil Engineer ,and with two incomes in total of 1000 euros in the Balkans ,you live very well and can travel threw Europe on holidays. Serbia in Belgrade or Novi Sad is like paradise compare to leaving in hell (Kosovo),.
(sasa.p, 24 August 2015 20:08)

sasa.p,
Whenever anyone reveals their salary online, one can be sure that their true salary is only 25% of that quoted. Nevertheless, even if you are truthful, two salaries totaling 1000 euros per month is only slightly more than the average for two salaries. Unless you spend your holidays with your cousins in a one room flat in Russia and eat out of garbage bins, you will not be able to afford a visit to Europe. I, very often, travel through out Europe for my job, therefore, I know what it costs to travel. I doubt you will be able to travel with any style unless you rob a bank. If by chance you manage to get to Western Europe, you will be forced to live on a much lower level than you do in Serbia. Don't waste your time and money trying to act like a jet setter, you will be sadly disappointed. My advice for a vacation is to pack a lunch and go visit Marko Milosevic's Bambi Land in Pozarevac.

@ sasa

By saying europe you mean Russia?

Dacic & com still continue living in a fairytale? Albanians have always & continue to be the majority popukation of Kosova, and they will always remain the majority period!!! And if and when Serbia does try to start another war against the peaceful loving majority of Kosova? I oromise you this Dacia & co, either come in with a nuclear arsenal the world has never seen the likes of, because if you don't come in in that fashion I full heartedly promise you that not a single Serbian soldier will ever return back to mother Serbia, as we the Albanian nation will turn your Serbian Chetnik rats into fertilizer for our land, and turn our fields another 10 shades red with the Serbian and Albanian blood that will spill on a biblical scale!!! If your Radical-Serbia is itching for another round,of fight night, then we the 7 million of us with our donkey brigades will gladly accept your challenge!! You European parasite, we've bleed empires dry, we've held strong our culture language, traditions, waybof life against powers the likes of Persia ,Rome, the ottomans! Let alone little maggot like Serbia!!!

Dacic signed Brussels. He has no right to oppose Kosovo in unesco or Interpol. Eu must place sanctions on him and maybe treat him like a Russian for their ukriane actions.

(factman, 22 August 2015 00:40
Actually Thaci's statement was right on, the only reason Dacic wants 1244 lifted is because he thinks Serbia can move into the north and do a crimea deal. Nothing more, nothing less.
However Dacic's claims before the council sounded like the rantings of a desperate man. He once again played the innocent Serb victim card to an organization that has on many occasions verified the brutality of Serbia, the desecration of many many historical and cultural, religious sites in Kosovo in order to ethnically cleanse the Albanian population from Kosovo during the reign of terror of Milosevic. The very council he spoke before did the unprecedented action of stripping a territory from Serbia's clutches and put it under international protection with guarantees to the Kosovo people that they would be protected from slaughter from Serbian forces with an open mandate to an international security force.
In the absence of 2004 there has not been any major actions against Serb sites other than petty vandalism, that cannot be attributed to Government actions. You also have to remember that you are talking to people who had their embassies burned and vandalized by Serbs under protection of the Serbian govt, and to date no one has been punished for those crimes.

I have the perfect solution for Dacic and his Chetniks - leave the United Nations. Your policies and strategies have nothing to do with international justice, and everything to do with narrow nationalistic goals, and the cover-up and justification of your multiple genocides by constantly accusing others. You only continue the fascist aims and tactics of the Milosevic govt, in which you served. You still try to cover up the mass graves, the mass industrialized burnings of bodies, your mass murderers.

You don't belong in our United Nations - get out now!

Dacic is defending his points verbally and making a very forceful and potent intellectual argument.

-- Nothing Dacic said is intellectual. It's the same tired words of a bitter Serb. A destroyer of religious institutions cannot ask for the denial of a different party to be part of the same club the destroyer of religious institutions is a member of, on the basis that the other party has destroyed religious instutions; and be expected to be taken seriously. The analogy would be if ISIS was a UNESCO member and complained that Serbia cannot be a member because it has destroyed religious institutions. Nonsense. Dacic has started to figure out that he may not be in the government for too long so now all of a sudden he is the "exemplary" Serb "patriot".

the war has not just begun yet,Mr Thaci,but soon is coming your way,on your doorstep!!!!!!until the last of you savages are forever out of Kosovo and Metohija for good!!!!!Whose dream is over!!!!!!This is just the beginning Mr Thaci!!!!!!!Until the last of you scumbags are out!!!!!!No more negotiations,war it is!!!!!!!Who will loose,we will see!!!!!

the war has not just begun yet,Mr Thaci,but soon is coming your way,on your doorstep!!!!!!until the last of you savages are forever out of Kosovo and Metohija for good!!!!!Whose dream is over!!!!!!This is just the beginning Mr Thaci!!!!!!!Until the last of you scumbags are out!!!!!!No more negotiations,war it is!!!!!!!Who will loose,we will see!!!!!
(skyrezo, 22 August 2015 01:04)

skyrezo,
You were probably not born yet at the time of the Kosovo war in 1999 which explains your lack of common knowledge concrning the war. All Serb military, Mup and paramilitaries were gelded before being allowed to leave Kosovo. It's all in UN Res. 1244. There is not a single testicle remaining among all Serb belligerents that were in Kosovo in 1999. You may wonder what became of all those nuts, well, the next time you attend a Slava you will finally learn what those little pickled meze are that you crave so much. So, the next time you start feeling feisty, chill out or else you might find your own nuts being served at your next Slava.

I guess B92 diden't have the guts to show Thaci's respons to Dacic. He put him in place!

"If you're gonna recognize, then get rid of 1244"

if they dont, then the empire is composed of hypocrites who break the very law they set up and signed.

it's an interesting challenge to the international cmty.
(factman, 22 August 2015 00:40)

Not sure where the challenge is!!!

Kosovo declared independence in accordance with international law and UNSCR 1244 and 110+ countries have decided to recognize that declaration. Everything is crystal clear (thanks to a certain Vuk) so not sure where you see the challenge or the breaking of the law (which law, btw? Serbia's law?)

I encourage all to view the webcast on the UNSC website. In it Dacic was very rude, arrogant and disrespectful. He made a personal attack on the UNSC representative of Jordan. He also said that Serbia would be watching to see which countries voted yes for Kosovo in UNESCO.
He came across most like North Korea's Kim, than anyone else I can think of.
Nothing he said could be construed as Serbia actually working toward peace.
Today he fully earned the name of "little Slobo"

Talk about double standards. The Serbian desecrated there own (property) citizens (and more properly) ( assets) including religious buildings and artifacts and rewrite the history of Yugoslavia and former provinces and yet to apologise. Go figure, who believes this rubbish

He should stop barking.

One very ironic point and it proves the extent of lying that Dacic will go to is first his reference to the fact that Eulex should retain jurisdiction of all war crime cases and NOT turn them over to the local judiciary and then second he highlights the injustice that Ivanovic is receiving at the hands of the local judiciary. The case against Ivanovic was investigated by EULEX, presented for indictment by EULEX, is being prosecuted by EULEX and is being heard by judiciary solely comprised of EULEX. He is receiving NO ill treatment or any treatment for that matter from the local judiciary.

Ivicia turnt up for elections hahah
He knows Kosovo is long gone

All you Albanian's keep taking about what Milosevic did,but Milosevic is not in power he is gone .It is a different Serbia from 2001 when I visit Serbia to now 2115. Belgrade is a modern city like the other European capitals.
But Kosovo is still the same poverty ,poeple 90 ℅ living in ghettoes ,poverty.You Albanian's living in the Western countries need to get real and go a live and work for awage in Kosovo for alest 1 year without your Western money and then giving your opion about the misery of Kosovo where poor poeple of all nationally's live.
P.s. why would 10 ℅ Albanian population leave the Kosovo paradise in the last 2 years.Alot of people give their idea without living in Kosovo are Idiot's.
(sasa.p, 22 August 2015 11:32)

Sasa p, stop it with your whining! For the same exact reason your 30% Serb population from Serbia has left! At least statistics are not showing Albanians not existing in Kosova by 2050 unlike statistics for Serbia that show their won't be a single Serb left!!!

did he say prizren was the capital of Serbia? hahaha so it was Ionnina the capital of Albania, under Greece now. So it was Constantinople the capital of Rome, under Turkey now...how about you go to you remoter russia, they got plenty of unpopulated land there, the whole serbia nation can fit in russian territory

Bravo Dacic!!!

All you Albanian's keep taking about what Milosevic did,but Milosevic is not in power he is gone .It is a different Serbia from 2001 when I visit Serbia to now 2115. Belgrade is a modern city like the other European capitals.
But Kosovo is still the same poverty ,poeple 90 ℅ living in ghettoes ,poverty.You Albanian's living in the Western countries need to get real and go a live and work for awage in Kosovo for alest 1 year without your Western money and then giving your opion about the misery of Kosovo where poor poeple of all nationally's live.
P.s. why would 10 ℅ Albanian population leave the Kosovo paradise in the last 2 years.Alot of people give their idea without living in Kosovo are Idiot's.

(sasa.p, 22 August 2015 11:32)
It is true Milosevic, himself is gone. But before he left he destroyed all the infrastructure in Kosovo, he made it what it is. And then his henchmen have spent the last 15 years using every bit of energy they have to keep it down. You say for people to go to Kosovo and work for the wages there and see what it is like. None of the Serbs on this English site are living and working in Serbia and none of them would trade their wages for the salary of Serbia. Serbia should be decades more advanced than Kosovo due to the situation but it is not.

What an idiotic statement by Thaci at the end of this article.

Dacic is defending his points verbally and making a very forceful and potent intellectual argument.

Thaci's reply is what a teenager might reply.

"If you're gonna recognize, then get rid of 1244"

if they dont, then the empire is composed of hypocrites who break the very law they set up and signed.

it's an interesting challenge to the international cmty.

You start a war you lose it! Boy these Albanians have no idea if the West did not attack Serbia, in one of the biggest lies ever committed by Clinton Admin, Albania would not exist today.thaci get a life man you are an idiot a puppet.

This reaction by this fat windbag Dacic is just typical Serb blustering, underneath their fragile pride is a huge inferiority complex. They have shown themselves to be paper tigers on many occasions. Deep down they know who is in the driver's seat.

In 1991 in Kosovo Censes state there were 194,190, this time Kosovo was under Serbian Milosevic rule, so no reason for Serbs to disputed.

Let's say that population growth 2/1000 or 0.002( this is taken from positive last year in Serbia,) 194,000 x 0.002 = 390 people and lets say for next 8 years no one died or moved ~3900 people born bringing total to 198,000 or say 200,000 people.

200,000 -100,000 that PM says are living in Kosovo this makes it 100,000 people - 50,000 police, army ... we are talking 50,000 Serbs displaced who after 16 years not sure want to return but let them return if they have not killed or raped.

So not sure Serbian FM, which is from Slobos party should talk about burning and killing and raping. Austria joined UNESCO before being UN Member and Kosovo is part of IMF which is also a UN organisation. Interpol would be great as it means that Police between both countries/Areas can work together to capture criminals at least try to stop.

Well said mr Dacic! You hit the nail right on the albanians thick skulls. Thacis response was nothing short of pathetic. But what else can you expect from these backward albanian savages.

A brilliant speech by Dacic. Eloquent and true and to the point. He left Thaci to snarl. Poor Thaci had nothing to say. Nothing.

You start a war you lose it! Boy these Albanians have no idea if the West did not attack Serbia, in one of the biggest lies ever committed by Clinton Admin, Albania would not exist today.thaci get a life man you are an idiot a puppet.
(DANNYUSA, 22 August 2015 18:11)

What worry Danny boy did Serbia win to get Vojvodina? So it is ok for you to have Vojvodina with help of Russia but the rest have to fight fair.

You lost the war no one says you have to fight alone to be triumphant! You also lost war in Croatia and still cry about it. You claim Kosovo as you lost a battle in 1389 but complain that Albanians won the war with help of US :)

To victor go the spoils - eat your heart out Danny boy

hahaha so it was Ionnina the capital of Albania, under Greece now.
(eric, 22 August 2015 18:11)

Ioannina is as much an Albanian city as Epidamnos, or Dyrrhachion, Argyrokastro,Vlora,Appolonia,Chimera,Agioi Saranda etc.For illiterate Albanians like yourself, Ioannina means " the city of St John".
Furthermore,when the Roman invasion of Epirus in Ancient Greece occurred, the Romans didn't fight any "Albanians ", but the three native Greek tribes of Epirus: the Thesprotians, the Chaonians and the Molossians.

I have lived in Australia for last 40 odd years since I was 4 years old .I can give my mind on the Balkans because I has lived and stayed for exactly 21 months in the Balkans.
(sasa.p, 22 August 2015 22:59)

sasa.p,
Sorry, no offense intended but, judging by your English, it seems you've never left the Balkans.

with the future on Serbia's side (China Russia) the war has yet to began.

You don't belong in our United Nations - get out now!
(roberto, 22 August 2015 05:29)

little boy talk from a 60 year old has-been.

But in numerous places it re-affirms Serbia's sovereignity and territorial integrity while also explicitly calling for "substantial autonomy and meaningful self-administration."

It is a contradictory document and Gordian Knot.
(factman, 23 August 2015 07:39)

There is no contradiction at all, except for those who want to be confused :) we're flogging a dead horse here...

First, it's international law 101; the scope of the principle of territorial integrity is confined to the sphere of relations between States. Serbia will have to first recognize Kosovo as a state and only then it may be able to claim (whether correctly or incorrectly) that Kosovo has done something that violates Serbia's territorial integrity.

Second, as for the call for "substantial autonomy and meaningful self-administration" that was "pending a final settlement", not the final settlement itself. 1244 is status neutral because 1244 does not contain any provision dealing with the final status of Kosovo or with the conditions for its achievement.

So no Kosovo actions are in contradiction with 1244.
----------

And that's why a declaration of independence was declared (because Pristina cant land there through 1244). Its a Gordian Knot. Stalemate.
(factman, 23 August 2015 07:39)

Not sure who or what is on stalemate, what Gordian knot you are referring to and where did you want Pristina to land through 1244!!! You are so confused mate... take a deep breath and collect your thoughts lol

(sasa.p, 22 August 2015 22:59)
Oh wise one who has lived beyond his years, it is very hard to believe what you profess.
To all the other Serbs here in the west you heard it here, Serbia is a paradise, quit your 4000+ a month jobs, you can live like kings in Nivana also known as Serbia on jobs that pay less than 400 per month.

Should you be a politician with unlimited travel resources and most probably villas in other countries as escape retreats in the event of a regime change this may be true, for ordinary citizens I doubt it.

But I will give you that life in Kosovo is bleak and probably will not improve until the EU and US can fully sever all ties to Serbia, and make sure that any more interference will be costly. I am positive that day is coming, and probably more quickly after the show of Dacic this last week.
I will let you get back to your life of 21 or 18 months which ever it is and enjoy.

By the way to enjoy unemployment benefits, at least in the US, means that you have at least worked. I too lived in the Balkans for about 39 months and talked extensively to the people and sampled much of the food and explored many of the local cultural activities that are so unique to the area.

Oh, please stop already with chetniks comment. They were the elite units in both wars fighting the German dark forces . Tito's commies spread the lies and now the Albanians and other left over German collaborators in both wars are trying the same. Just the other day, my American friend and neighbor said "Serbs were the only true western forces' allies in both World Wars but our corrupt American politicians sold them out in recent history for a fistful of Norco dollars, starting with Clinton and old man Senator McCain. Everything changes in a couple of decades, specially when regular Americans start pushing their politicians toward truth and justice.Also, Washington is scared to death of Russia establishing herself in a middle of the Balkans.So, there you have it, boys and girls.

But what about 1244?

You must agree that its an interesting challenge that he posed.
(factman, 22 August 2015 02:11
Not really have you read, I mean fully read res 1244. It was written in 1999 and said what was to take place immediately and then it lays the ground work to building a functional Kosovo. It does not prejudge whether that future be in Serbia or independent. But it is a working document. 1st was the disarmament of all sides and the forced removal of all Serb forces then the establishment of an international civilian presence and security presence.
Then it outlines how the civilian presence will take immediate control of the government and train the locals in how to rule themselves. Then as the provisional institutions of Kosovo become competent then (UNMIK) is to turn over its responsibilities to the Kosovo govt. Until there is a final settlement then UNMIK is to oversee the transfer of power from the provisional govt to the final govt.
The source of contradiction in the two sides should be that whether the present government is the provisional one or the final one.110 countries say that it is the final one. The resolution itself does not determine what makes the final status settlement. But more than half the countries currently side with Kosovo.
The problem is that Serbia cannot get past the initial part of Kosovo where it is still supposed to be under UNMIK rule. part 1

But what about 1244?

You must agree that its an interesting challenge that he posed.
(factman, 22 August 2015 02:11
part 2.
I do agree that it is time to repeal 1244, and if Dacic is serious as I doubt he his then it would pave the way for it.
But remember both the EU and NATO have made a commitment to the defense and development of Kosovo and that will not change as a NATO peace keeping force would be invited to stay by the Kosovo govt, which UNMIK has turned its authority over to. And any chance that Dacic thinks he could do a Crimea replay would be stopped in its tracks. It would not only end any consultations of hopes of EU but it would also mean economic and political sanctions, which Serbia is NOT strong enough to endure.

If you remember it was the west who has been in favor of removing 1244 and Russia was the block so it has not ever been presented. So if Serbia gives a definite yes, it will happen. But don't expect that in the near future.

To think about it
You are wrong,I have moved my family and leave in Serbia from Australia. I have family still living in Kosovo from my father's side,and have travel 100's times to visit since I been living in Serbia last 18 months.Serbia is like paradise compare to Kosovo.I am sick and tired of people that write on this site and never lived in the Balkans and give their mind.I have lived in Australia for last 40 odd years since I was 4 years old .I can give my mind on the Balkans because I has lived and stayed for exactly 21 months in the Balkans.
When people like myself have walk ,sang and eat with Albanian's, Serb's, Montenegro's,Croatian's and Macedonian's can talk what is going in the Balkans,not people sitting in Western countries most likely on unemployment benefits.

icj1,

1. You rather liberally throw around the words "international community"
2. The only voice for the international cmty is UNSC (as is specified in the UN Charter)
3. If it is like you say, then why ask Serbia ro recognize?
4. Why ask that it change its constitution?
5. What passports are being used?
6. What is the international calling code?
7. If it is like you say it is, why not just go about your business and ignore Serbia?

The reason is because it is not like you say.

The problem with you is that one cant have an intellectual discussion without you being deceitful.

THe UNSC speaks for the international community. Period.

To count of Kosovo,
Your mistaken, My wife teachers English language ,I am a Civil Engineer ,and with two incomes in total of 1000 euros in the Balkans ,you live very well and can travel threw Europe on holidays. Serbia in Belgrade or Novi Sad is like paradise compare to leaving in hell (Kosovo),.

Kosovo may be considered to be many different things. Independent? Certainly not.

A New Day,

Sorry, I dont read this the same way as you.

First, Belgrade doesnt want to scrap 1244, they want to keep it. The Crimea scenario is interesting, but it would never fly. Serbia doesn't have the muscle to fight againt the EU.

Next, Sure, I follow and agree with what you say about provisional and final government.

But I don't land in the same spot. Here's why:

Sure, 1244 says to authorize the UN to facilitate a political process to determine Kosovo's future status.

And it even It says to take into consideration the Rambouillet Agreement and the "will of the people of Kosovo" as guiding principles in defining Kosovo's status.

I agree on all this.

But in numerous places it re-affirms Serbia's sovereignity and territorial integrity while also explicitly calling for "substantial autonomy and meaningful self-administration."

It is a contradictory document and Gordian Knot.

And that's why a declaration of independence was declared (because Pristina cant land there through 1244). Its a Gordian Knot. Stalemate.

What time is it at the General Assembly when the Serbian FM gets up to make a speech? Lunchtime. Nobody cares what your FM has to say or anybody in your government for that matter. You are a disgraced nation that has lost all credibility in the international community. I bet you could hear a chuckle throughout the EU Parliament when Serbia submitted it's bid to join the EU. Consider what's going on now as your punishment for your atrocious war crimes. When will you learn that America is your Daddy?

icj1,
1. You rather liberally throw around the words "international community"
(factman, 23 August 2015 06:45)

I did not mention the words "international community" in this page!
----------

2. The only voice for the international cmty is UNSC (as is specified in the UN Charter)
(factman, 23 August 2015 06:45)

Yup and if I use the word "international community" that's what I mean - but thanks for confirming
----------

3. If it is like you say, then why ask Serbia ro recognize?
(factman, 23 August 2015 06:45)

sorry, but I have no idea what the above means! Who did ask whom and where to recognize what... So I have no idea how the above has anything to do with or contradicts what I wrote.
----------

4. Why ask that it change its constitution?
(factman, 23 August 2015 06:45)

again, I have no idea what the above means! Who did ask whom and where to change the constitution of what? So I have no idea how the above has anything to do with or contradicts what I wrote.
----------

5. What passports are being used? \
(factman, 23 August 2015 06:45)

whose passports being used by whom and where? details mate, details... You just state empty words that mean nothing

6. What is the international calling code?
(factman, 23 August 2015 06:45)

The international calling code of what? Russia? Russia uses Kazakhstan's :) But, again, I have no idea how the above has anything to do with or contradicts what I wrote
----------

7. If it is like you say it is, why not just go about your business and ignore Serbia?
(factman, 23 August 2015 06:45)

Why me writing about Serbia is in contradiction with what I said?! Mate, your arguments lack any logical connection!!!
----------

The reason is because it is not like you say
(factman, 23 August 2015 06:45)

Why?! You did not explain any of your reasoning lol
----------

The problem with you is that one cant have an intellectual discussion without you being deceitful.
(factman, 23 August 2015 06:45)

I have no doubt that one like you can't have an intellectual discussion... It's enough to see what you wrote above to have a confirmation of that!
----------

THe UNSC speaks for the international community. Period.
(factman, 23 August 2015 06:45)

Yeah, but I did not say anything to the contrary :) So not sure what your point is other than confirming something that we both agree with!

The fact that Muslim Albanians were imported by the Ottomans into Greek cities in order to change the demographics and control the Christian populations doesn't give the Albanians any rights to call those cities as Albanian ones in the slightest.

To claim that things only moved one way is total idiotsy,

I don't claim anything ,I am just quoting facts.Greeks don't claim anything Albanians do and neither historiography nor archaeology support what Albanian claims.I am still waiting to see any world historian conferring any validation on those claims.
(Leonidas, 24 August 2015 10:24)

First of all. Ali Pashe Tepelena was fighting the Ottomans. You don't want to recognize this because you weren't doing any fighting back then. As proof of this one only need to know that the Ottomans were parading his head around the Empire when they finally killed him. It's not convenient for you to admit that Albanians in Greece, not Greeks, were fighting the empire during his time.

Second- plenty of Orthodox Albanians in Greece. Both Cams and Arvanite. You're being devious.

Third- Its not just Greeks that didn't view Epiriotes as a Greek tribe. I mentioned the Romans for a reason.Because modern Greeks, under the elixir of Megali Idea like to claim that anything that roamed the Balkans back then was Greek.

--Fourth- The fact that Greek immigrants from 2000 years ago settled in our land doesn't give the Greeks any rights to call these cities Greek in the slightest.

This is a balkans mentality
after the UNSC thaqi and dacic they were together in the nightclub and you guys fighting who is better thaqi or dacic both have business together ist all about money

This is a balkans mentality
after the UNSC thaqi and dacic they were together in the nightclub and you guys fighting who is better thaqi or dacic both have business together ist all about money

Greeks think they are ancient Greeks still hahaha.

Most of the Albanian posters don't have the intelligence to put 2 + 2 together and come up with 4. All they know to do is reply with "HAHAHA" and then respond with rhetoric and finish with LOL.

On a more serious note No serious historian would ever claim that modern peoples are direct descendants of ancient peoples.What really matters is continuation (e.g. culture, language, occasionally religion) which ensures the historical sense of an evolving community through time.In other words, modern Greeks have those features enabling them to look back to antiquity

Janina was the capital of Medieval Albania, Epirus.

There wasn't any medieval Albania.Thre was an Ottoman Empire though- at least that is what Ottoman archives and log books are saying.

Ali Pasha control Epirus during Medieval fighting against Turks a

Ali Pasha was an Ottoman vassal whose job was to control the Greek klephts and the Christian populations at large and when he decided to go against the Ottoman Hursid Pasha he was beheaded.Nothing more deserved by a humanoid killer.

There were no ancient Greeks hahaha

Indeed.Modern Greeks landed from a spaceship 175 years ago.The same ship spirited away all the ancient Greeks and their descendants into another planet.Cheap Albanian propaganda- almost identical the the one applied by the government of Fyrom.The Greek nation is one and of course the oldest in Europe,but it's still one.

Ali Pashe Tepelena was fighting the Ottomans.

No he wasn't. He was an Albanian pimp who became a pasha through extortions,intrigues and murders.

http://www.britannica.com/biography/Ali-Pasa-Tepelene

Second- plenty of Orthodox Albanians in Greece. Both Cams and Arvanite.

Chronologically speaking, Epirus was Epirus long before the Albanians settled in "Chameria".Epirus was known as such since Odysseus's era, if not earlier. Chameria was a term invented during the Ottoman era and applied much later, when the Albanians settled in the region.
You better stop using the silly term 'Orthodox Albanians' for the Orthodox Arvanite populations who were forced to leave Albania and relocate in Greece (1350-1600)as a result of Ottoman conquests in the Balkans.In fact the idea of calling an Arvanite as Albanian is very offensive in Greece.Albanians also tend to exagerate the numbers of Arvanites after the creation of the first Greek state.Arvanites were less 10% of the total population of Greece in 19th century out of a total population of 2.500.000. This is attested by the eminent Albanologist Johan Georg Von Hahn in his book "Albansesische studien" (1854) page 34

Its not just Greeks that didn't view Epiriotes as a Greek tribe. I mentioned the Romans for a reason.

Could you tell where I can go and read about this, as I am awfully intrigued.Please ensure that he's not Albanian or half-Albanian.

(j,

The tribes of Epirus weren't viewed as Greeks by their own Greek contemporaries. Greek historians called them barbarians, just like they called any foreign, non-greek tribe.

If you want to convince me that Epirotes were not Greek because Thucydides called them barbarians, first you have to convince me (and the world) that:
1. Aristogeiton was not Greek because Demosthenes called him a barbarian
2.Demosthenes was not Greek because Aeschines called him a barbarian
3. The Eleans were not Greek because Stratonicus called them barbarians
4. The Thessalians were not Greek because Hegesander called them barbarians.
5. The Aeoleans were not Greek because Prodicus called them barbarians.
6. Strepsiades was not Greek because Socrates called him a barbarian.

but then again some of Greek towns were majority Albanian until the death of Ali Pashe Tepelena

The fact that Muslim Albanians were imported by the Ottomans into Greek cities in order to change the demographics and control the Christian populations doesn't give the Albanians any rights to call those cities as Albanian ones in the slightest.

To claim that things only moved one way is total idiotsy,

I don't claim anything ,I am just quoting facts.Greeks don't claim anything Albanians do and neither historiography nor archaeology support what Albanian claims.I am still waiting to see any world historian conferring any validation on those claims.

A New Day,

Thanks for the thoughtful reaponse. Agreed on all points.

I would only add the following:

The pace of recognitions is slowing, not gaining momentum (at this pace...)

The economic health of either party will influence the "flavor" of the final outcome more than anyone cares to realize (with the understanding that "facts on the ground" are more important than anything else)

Two veto holding members remain dug-in at UNSC (and seem to be re-establishing a bi-polar world)

Wildcards: RS; Future world events/ developments

I said he fought the empire.

No he didn't. The reason he was given the various Pashaliks by the Ottomans was that he was acting on behalf of their interests.When he tried to act as a sovereign he had his fate sealed.

Doesn't mean anything, its a simple movement of populations, whether this was 2000 years ago, or 600 years ago.

It doesn't mean anything now,does it?The Albanian posters on this site never miss the chance to remind us that thy're the oldest race ever to preside over the Balkans.

They tell the Greeks its offensive, they complain to Albanians the Greeks have oppressed them and can only speak their language in their homes.

That's a crude lie.I grew up and went to school with some of them and the only spoken language was Greek.It's also a fact that when Albanian immigrants started arriving in Greece en mass in the early 1990s they were not allowed to settle in villages inhabited by Arvnites.

At work now so I have no time to look for links

I was pretty sure you couldn't because there isn't any link.You just reminds me of those fables in which small animals brag about their imaginary achievements in the absence of the big animals.Lets leave it into that.

I don't claim anything ,I am just quoting facts.Greeks don't claim anything Albanians do and neither historiography nor archaeology support what Albanian claims.I am still waiting to see any world historian conferring any validation on those claims.
(Leonidas, 24 August 2015 10:24)

Sir:
I respectfully request you provide verification of your assertions. Since you claim you just quoting facts, it shouldn't be difficult to give concrete evidence from at least three leading world historians conferring validation on your claims. Thanking you in advance for documentation of your assertions.

icj1,

1. You rather liberally throw around the words "international community"
2. The only voice for the international cmty is UNSC (as is specified in the UN Charter)
3. If it is like you say, then why ask Serbia ro recognize?
4. Why ask that it change its constitution?
5. What passports are being used?
6. What is the international calling code?
7. If it is like you say it is, why not just go about your business and ignore Serbia?

The reason is because it is not like you say.

The problem with you is that one cant have an intellectual discussion without you being deceitful.

THe UNSC speaks for the international community. Period.

Greeks think they are ancient Greeks still hahaha. Why do you skip Medieval Period. Janina was the capital of Medieval Albania, Epirus. Ali Pasha control Epirus during Medieval fighting against Turks and his head was cut of by the Turks brought to Istambul. There were no ancient Greeks, the people that controlled the Eastern Roman Empire were called Romaoi then magically they started call them selfs helens which is not even a race, was just a mythical girl name hahaha

To count of Kosovo,
Your mistaken, My wife teachers English language ,I am a Civil Engineer ,and with two incomes in total of 1000 euros in the Balkans ,you live very well and can travel threw Europe on holidays. Serbia in Belgrade or Novi Sad is like paradise compare to leaving in hell (Kosovo),.
(sasa.p, 24 August 2015 20:08)

sasa.p,
Whenever anyone states their salary online, one can be sure that their true salary is only 25% of that quoted. Nevertheless, even if you are truthful, two salaries totaling 1000 euros per month is only slightly more than the average for two salaries. Unless you spend your holidays with your cousins in a one room flat in Russia and eat out of garbage bins, you will not be able to afford a visit to Europe. I, very often, travel through out Europe for my job, therefore, I know what it costs to travel. I doubt you will be able to travel with any style unless you rob a bank. If by chance you manage to get to Western Europe, you will be forced to live on a much lower level than you do in Serbia. Don't waste your time and money trying to act like a jet setter, you will be sadly disappointed. My advice for a vacation is to pack a lunch and go visit Marko Milosevic's Bambi Land in Pozarevac.

icj1,

Semantics game.
(factman, 24 August 2015 15:00)

semantics game what ? no idea what you mean :)
----------

Let me boil it down to two questions for you:
(factman, 24 August 2015 15:00)

Good, I hope you have finally collected and crystalized your thoughts...
----------

1. If everything is as you say it is, and Kosovo is independent why then is Serbia being asked to remove Kosovo from its constitution and recognize it?
(factman, 24 August 2015 15:00)

Who is asking Serbia to remove Kosovo from its constitution and recognize it and what does that have to do with what I said or with Kosovo being independent?!
----------

2. And why have 45% of the countries of the world not endorsed that independence? Is it for love and friendship of Serbia?
(factman, 24 August 2015 15:00)

Feel free to ask them (if they care about it) :) Not sure though what that has anything to do with what I said... Mate, you have serious challenges in establishing a logical chain of connections in your arguments
----------

PS: UNSC does not agree that it is independent and UNSC speaks for the international community (as stated in the charter of UN).
(factman, 24 August 2015 15:00)

Well, can you please provide a reference to a UNSC Resolution or Presidential Statement stating that the UNSC "does not agree that Kosovo is independent"?

The pace of recognitions is slowing, not gaining momentum (at this pace...)
(factman, 24 August 2015 15:39)

EUREKA!!! How did you figure that out :) Let me tell you another secret that will make the most patriotic of Serbs rejoice... It is a FACT that sooner or later the pace of recognitions will come to a halt! It's not a matter of if, but when lol
----------

Two veto holding members remain dug-in at UNSC (and seem to be re-establishing a bi-polar world)
(factman, 24 August 2015 15:39)

Sure, but the veto only serves to block an action by the UNSC; it does nothing to make the UNSC act... And the UNSC has already acted on Kosovo with UNSCR 1244, so that ship has sailed.
----------

Wildcards: RS; Future world events/ developments
(factman, 24 August 2015 15:39)

Of course, and I can add a few other wildcards like an asteroid hitting Earth and sending us all (or our children) to the creator lol So let's enjoy the present...

(factman, 23 August 2015 07:39)
I think we are in agreement that Resolution 1244 is a contradictory document, it begins with a statement that they are committed to the territorial integrity of the Fry, then it goes into a gameplan of exactly how it will sever all the control of Serbia from Kosovo leaving in name only.
And I agree Serbia does not want to dismantle 1244 as it is the last thread of control over Kosovo. If nothing else it gives Serbia a stage every 3 months or rather a soap box to say before the world that Kosovo is Serbia eventhough more than half the audience has declared otherwise.
It is obvious that there will be no unified response to Kosovo coming out of the UNSC showing that it has become an ineffective organ.
But the reality on the ground is that Kosovo independence and membership in international organs is advancing while at the same time the security presence in Kosovo prevents any type of military response.
Yes we disagree where res 1244 "lands" but you have to admit that in order to use 1244 to block anything would take a further action of the UNSC and that will not happen anytime soon. Acceptance in international organizations is happening more and more and Serbia cannot stop it. Because all of them rely on votes by members and the wording of their individual charters. There is nothing clear cut in 1244 that endorses or prohibits it. The UN admits members, it does not establish statehood.

Greek tribes of Epirus

-- @ Leonidad. The tribes of Epirus weren't viewed as Greeks by their own Greek contemporaries. Greek historians called them barbarians, just like they called any foreign, non-greek tribe. As a matter of fact the Romans and to this day the Italians do not equate Epirus with Greek tribes.
Nice try but Greeks were not the only people in existence in the Balkans. I will agree with you though that some Albanian towns were founded by Greeks, but then again some of Greek towns were majority Albanian until the death of Ali Pashe Tepelena. Such is the history of the Balkans. Always fluid. It has always been this way. To claim that things only moved one way is total idiotsy, as it invalidates your own claims of victimhood toward your neighbors. For you to have suffered, someone must have won during that time, and that means influence in culture, customs, new villages, towns, movement of populations etc etc. So relax and enjoy the summer.

Thaci asserted that "Albanians have always been the majority in Kosovo"

That's true, and ethnic Serbs the minority. And Serbs have been always the majority in Serbia, and Kosovo Albanians an ethnic minority within Serbia. Serbs have always been the majority in northern Kosovo and in other regions - they still are nowadays in northern Kosovo. What does that tell us? Not much.

icj1,

Semantics game.

Let me boil it down to two questions for you:

1. If everything is as you say it is, and Kosovo is independent why then is Serbia being asked to remove Kosovo from its constitution and recognize it?

2. And why have 45% of the countries of the world not endorsed that independence? Is it for love and friendship of Serbia?

PS: UNSC does not agree that it is independent and UNSC speaks for the international community (as stated in the charter of UN).

A New Day,

You make some great points for sure. I do not minimize them.

But what about 1244?

You must agree that its an interesting challenge that he posed.

If Serbia asks to abolish 1244 then all sorted...))) So we will not have "double standards"...))))

No he wasn't. He was an Albanian pimp who became a pasha through extortions,intrigues and murders.

-- Read your own links before you send them. It clearly states there that he acted as a sovereign disobeying the empire and was recognized as such by the great powers. I didn't say he was a good man. I said he fought the empire.

Epirus was Epirus long before the Albanians settled in "Chameria".

-- Doesn't mean anything, its a simple movement of populations, whether this was 2000 years ago, or 600 years ago. The passing of time doesn't make it wrong or right. That was my point. Migration is migration no matter when it happened.

You better stop using the silly term 'Orthodox Albanians' for the Orthodox Arvanite populations who were forced to leave Albania and relocate in Greece (1350-1600)as a result of Ottoman conquests in the Balkans.In fact the idea of calling an Arvanite as Albanian is very offensive in Greece.

-- I've met a few. They tell the Greeks its offensive, they complain to Albanians the Greeks have oppressed them and can only speak their language in their homes. They are no different than the Albanians who migrated in Italy at the same time.

Could you tell where I can go and read about this,

-- At work now so I have no time to look for links, but even to this day Italians refer to distinguished Albanians with terms such as Prince of Epirus. Doesn't mean Epirus was Albanian;but it isn't for sure those tribes were Greek either.

It is very interesting to read everyones version of history and who was on what land 10,000 years ago and who controlled what and which ethnic groups originated from which historic peoples. But you know what, none of that is worth the effort put into writing it in 2015.
But it has opened my eyes as I always thought that history as I was taught was accurate, now I see so many versions with people swearing theirs is right, I don't think anyone has a true picture or will ever know.

To count of Kosovo,
Your mistaken, My wife teachers English language ,I am a Civil Engineer ,and with two incomes in total of 1000 euros in the Balkans ,you live very well and can travel threw Europe on holidays. Serbia in Belgrade or Novi Sad is like paradise compare to leaving in hell (Kosovo),.
(sasa.p, 24 August 2015 20:08)
I really cannot tell if this post is a joke or not. If you are serious the you have to be lying. Your wife teaches English, you were able to get a degree in civil engineering at a school in Australia which is 100% English language and you write like someone who has not finished a basic course in English. Just too hokey to believe.
You may be able to live comfortably in Serbia for 1000 a month but traveling though Europe, not possible.

@ sasa

By saying europe you mean Russia?

icj1

* Kosovo isn't independent but disputed territory with little sovereignty (the true measure of independence)

* You say "K declared independence in accordance with intn’l law & 1244"
False. 1244 affirms the territorial integrity & sovereignty of Serbia. Nor do the words "status neutral" exist in 1244, they are a wishful construct

* You say "110 countries recognized". So what? This is not a measure of independence

* Worldwide there is no agreement on what this “independence” even is. In DC, Berlin & Paris it means independent. In Beijing, Tel Aviv & Bombay it means occupied. You say true; they say false. That kind of independence + $1 will buy you a pack of chewing gum

* Until BG recognizes Kosovo (which requires a national referendum to remove it from its constitution), there is not independence, but disputed independence - a manufactured, fabricated, and supervised façade burdened with power sharing, local autonomy, parallel institutions, continued BG links, & entanglements in endless legal, diplomatic, administrative, economic, & interpretive impasses limiting sovereignty

* Kosovo does not have sovereignty, and therefore it does not have independence

* Each subsequent agreement w Serbia further weakens that sovereignty (independence). Only yesterday, Mitrovica became quasi-independent with its own flag (tied to Pristina by nothing)

The "independence" you speak of is full of holes & not real. Its fabricated (just like you)

A New Day,

Also agreed.

But in response, I add that for every action, there is a reaction.

It is predictable that Serbia will counter with devices that seek to lessen sovreignty (effectively neutralizing independence).

Independence without sovreignty is not independence.

PS: UNSC does not agree that it is independent and UNSC speaks for the international community (as stated in the charter of UN).
(factman, 24 August 2015 15:00)
This is one of those "is the glass half full or half empty" scenarios.
True the UNSC does not agree that it is independent, but the UNSC also does not agree that it is NOT independent either. So as for speaking for the "international community" it only says that they have No official stance on the independence of Kosovo.
You cannot insist on status neutrality and then also insist that neutrality means it sides with Serbia on the subject.

To count of Kosovo,
Your mistaken, My wife teachers English language ,I am a Civil Engineer ,and with two incomes in total of 1000 euros in the Balkans ,you live very well and can travel threw Europe on holidays. Serbia in Belgrade or Novi Sad is like paradise compare to leaving in hell (Kosovo),.
(sasa.p, 24 August 2015 20:08)

sasa.p,
Whenever anyone reveals their salary online, one can be sure that their true salary is only 25% of that quoted. Nevertheless, even if you are truthful, two salaries totaling 1000 euros per month is only slightly more than the average for two salaries. Unless you spend your holidays with your cousins in a one room flat in Russia and eat out of garbage bins, you will not be able to afford a visit to Europe. I, very often, travel through out Europe for my job, therefore, I know what it costs to travel. I doubt you will be able to travel with any style unless you rob a bank. If by chance you manage to get to Western Europe, you will be forced to live on a much lower level than you do in Serbia. Don't waste your time and money trying to act like a jet setter, you will be sadly disappointed. My advice for a vacation is to pack a lunch and go visit Marko Milosevic's Bambi Land in Pozarevac.

(factman, 24 August 2015 15:39)
I can agree with what you wrote.
As far as pace of recognitions, I think you and I both know that there is only 3 recognitions that play any importance at this point. Those being Russia, China, and Serbia, anything else is just fluff.
whether those will ever happen or not, we will have to see. At this point, I would not gamble either way.
But the focus at this time should be on international organizations. Which has gained momentum.

As far as veto wielding countries. I think that is showing that it has pretty much shown that the UNSC is totally ineffective on any subject of the world that involves any of the 5 parties. Not sure that is a good representive for the world.

* Kosovo isn't independent but disputed territory with little sovereignty (the true measure of independence)
(factman, 26 August 2015 14:46)

I'm not disputing that according to you Kosovo isn't independent lol
--------

* You say "K declared independence in accordance with intn’l law & 1244"
False.
(factman, 26 August 2015 14:46)

Why is it false?! Because you say so?!
--------

1244 affirms the territorial integrity & sovereignty of Serbia.
(factman, 26 August 2015 14:46)

Ok, and then what? By declaring independence Kosovo did not violate 1244... So not sure what's the point that you are trying to make!
-------

Nor do the words "status neutral" exist in 1244, they are a wishful construct
(factman, 26 August 2015 14:46)

Ok, make sure to educate the Serbian Government about that
--------

* You say "110 countries recognized". So what? This is not a measure of independence
(factman, 26 August 2015 14:46)

Who said that's a measure of independence?
--------

* Until BG recognizes Kosovo there is not independence, but disputed independence
(factman, 26 August 2015 14:46)

Sure, disputed by Serbia but not disputed by 110+ other countries. If your goal is to be able to say that Kosovo is disputed, by all means do it - there is freedom of speech!
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The "independence" you speak of is full of holes & not real
(factman, 26 August 2015 14:46)

And then what?! I don't see Kosovo rushing to give it up because it isn't "real" :)