"90% of Serbs realized for first time crimes were committed"

(Bam Bam, 28 July 2015 14:00) # Comment link

Can you name me one "credible historian" that disputes the fact that 700, 000 people were murdered at Jasenovac? I understand why it is in your interest as an Ustasha to try and minimize those numbers, all the while actually supporting the genocide itself, but the facts are there for all to see.

One problem however is the Ustasha cowards burned Jasenovac to the ground when it was obvious their fun was over. And plus forensics were not very advanced in the few years after WWII. The Armenians cannot give you the biography of every one of the 1.5 million who were murdered during the Armenian Genocide, but anyone with half a brain knows what happened there. Why? Because its all right there in the demographics.

I will leave you with this: Avro Manhattan, a Roman Catholic scholar wrote in his 1965 book, Vatican Imperialism in the 20th Century:

“The lessons we have learned from the emergence of the independent
State of Croatia, where the religious and political totalitarianism of Catholicism
was not only made to work, but put to death more than one million Serbian
Orthodox Christians, should never be forgotten.

So 700, 000 may be generous.

Serbs still like to live with the (correct, in general) idea that 'all sides committed crimes, but a simple check of the numbers of people killed in the YU wars, grouped by ethnicity, shows who the main culprit was.
(Comm. Parrisson, 28 July 2015 14:48)

Actually, even the anti-Serb ICTY confirmed that all sides committed crimes. In Bosnia, the ICTY said that 100, 000 people were killed- 66, 000 Bosnian Muslims, 33, 000 Serbs & 18, 000 Croats. That to me looks exactly like all sides committed crimes. For the Bosnian Muslims, not all of their victims were killed by Serbs. Croats fought for separation, and a anti-Sarajevo Muslim force led by Firket Abdic fought to remain part of Yugoslavia.

The only thing the ICTY declared was that genocide was committed in Srebrenica. Though I think that's bullshit, it's not the one-sided violence that your director at the NGO office in Belgrade tells you to recite.

Besides, the ICTY had acquitted Serbia of committing genocide in Croatia (though shamefully also acquitted Ante Gotovina and Croatia), so explain to me why is it untrue to say that all sides committed war crimes?

Go ahead, call get your director on the phone. I'll wait.

The fact that crimes were being done by Serbs in Bosnia was no secret.

It is not that they population of Serbia didn't know.

It was that they didn't want to know.

They chose to believe the anti-western propaganda rather than what the west was telling them.

Some still do.

I don't think Serbs have any issues knowing that crimes were committed, I think we have always know that it is part of war. But it seem like it's the other way around, the US, UK, NATO, Germany, Croatians, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians have always had problems admitting their crimes.

Western propaganda at the time purposely overestimated deaths, rape victims and so on. When there were thousands of deaths on all sides, they would claim hundreds of thousands on one side. So why should Serbs take anything they were saying seriously? Even today, we can see selective justice so again, they cannot be considered impartial.

Anyway, as we can see, their temporary creations have become great failures just like their propaganda. Check this BBC article -> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33686505

Quote -> Since Bosnia-Herzegovina, Macedonia and Serbia were declared "safe" in December, the rise in asylum seekers from those countries was only 23%, Germany's Federal Office for Migration and Refugees (BAMF) said.
However, the numbers from Albania, "Kosovo" and Montenegro had soared by 515%, the BAMF said.

Hungary is also struggling with a surge in Balkan migrants - many of them Roma (Gypsies) fleeing grinding poverty in Kosovo.

So 700, 000 may be generous. (Ari Gold)

Looks like Ari failed elementary math. 80,000 people killed in Jasenovac. Serbs, Jews, Gypsies, Muslims and Croats too.

Serbs like to highlight their plight alongside that of the Jewish people. But they like to forget that they slaughtered all their Jews in the 1940s and proclaimed Beograd the first Jew-free city in Europe. Disgusting.

"Vucic also said that today "90 percent of Serbs for the first time recognize that some of their compatriots committed terrible crimes during the wars of the 1990s."
Oh, how surprising. And still, a lot of Serb nationalists consider those murderers and butchers who committed genocide as 'heroes' or 'defenders'. It's somehow absurd, nationalists and patriots should care for their country. But they admire people whose actions and the consequences of the actions are directly responsible for 100.000s of Serbs being expelled.

Serbs still like to live with the (correct, in general) idea that 'all sides committed crimes, but a simple check of the numbers of people killed in the YU wars, grouped by ethnicity, shows who the main culprit was.

P.S: Maybe one day even Nicolic realizes that 'some of his compatriots' were involved in actions of genocide and dares to mention it?

Well, as an ardent nationalist and Information Minister in the 90s, you can bet that Vucic helped make sure that Serbs were kept in the dark about what their nation were up to in Croatia, BiH, Kosovo and, to a lesser extent, Vojvodina, Slovenia, Sandzak and Montenegro (yes, even in Sandzak and Montenegro, for those too young to recall the crimes against Muslims there). So when he mentions that 90% of Serbs are only now becoming aware of the crimes that Serbs committed, he should add that he was part of the problem of Serb denial over the past 2+ decades. He should also remind everyone that he and Nikolic were for many years staunch supporters of one of the key political figures - Seselj - accused of stoking the flames of nationalism - and even of directing paramilitary war crimes in numerous parts of ex Yu.

Looks like Ari failed elementary math. 80,000 people killed in Jasenovac. Serbs, Jews, Gypsies, Muslims and Croats too.

Serbs like to highlight their plight alongside that of the Jewish people. But they like to forget that they slaughtered all their Jews in the 1940s and proclaimed Beograd the first Jew-free city in Europe. Disgusting.
(Bob, 28 July 2015 16:58)

Sadly, 80, 000 doesn't even make up the non-Serbs who were slaughtered at Jasenovac you fascist genocide denier. You're right, Croats were killed there too. But they were killed for their political affiliations and their resistance to fascism. Serbs were killed systematically because they were Serbian.

Serbs slaughtered Jews in WWII? Creative mind you have there. When were Serbs doing this? When they resisted up the majority of not one, but two anti-fascist fronts in the Balkans? Oh you're talking about Belgrade? Well funny thing about that, there was this bombing that took place due to Serbia's resistance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Retribution_(1941), which resulted in the direct German military occupation of Serbia and Belgrade. So any Jew that was killed in Serbia was killed by a German, and Serbs died side by side with the Jews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kragujevac_massacre

Much different than in the NDH where Croats organized and carried out the most sadistic killings that made even their German allies cringe in disgust!

Serbian cival leaders continue to entertain Satan, bow before the Devil! When it all boils down, very simple to know and understand, Satans intent is total destruction of Christian Eastern Orthodoxy! The Devils dream, to totally erase the Christian Eastern Orthodox religion from the face of the earth! Serbian people to be kept isolated, demonized and most important not united, this way the Devil to maximize and inflict horrific terror and total destruction of Christian Eastern Orthodoxy in the Balkans. If it would only be that easy to do, but the Russian Empire stands so much in the way of the Devil's intent! Hitler's " Final Solutuion " program so successfull that even Serbian cival leaders belive it! Why all this socializing between Serbian cival leaders and Satan, is it not enough suffering Serbia endured from USA, England and Germany? Look at where we ordinary Serbian people stand at this point in time, Kosovo and Srpska Krajina gone, Astro Hungarian Empire looking at Vojvodina, Romania and Bulgaria eyeing Banat and Albania keeps pushing,expanding and planning for more Serbian territory to be stolen! So Serbian cival leaders continue to wheel and deal with Satan while they turn their backs to Salvation and Redemption! The current direction of Serbian cival leaders for sure the death of Serbia! Like my Mother and Father before me pray they not be alive to again see Serbia murdered I also the same!!!

Croatian, Serbian and Bosnian academics need to get together to write a comprehensive history of WWII that all sides can agree on or there will never be reconciliation. Some of the statistics I hear Serbs quote are absurd and from unreliable and biased, especially anti-Catholic, sources. The Croatians need to acknowledge the crimes committed by the Ustashe, but in order to do this we need the real facts. The Serbs also need to acknowledge the crimes committed against civilians by Partisans and Chetniks. It is atrocious that Tito is still being honored in Serbia and even among naive and uninformed Croatians. Moreover, just because the Ustashe had more powerful backers early on in the war does not mean the Chetniks and Partisans have the moral high ground. If the Chetniks had the ability, they would have slaughtered just as many civilians as the Ustase if not more. We saw the extent of Partisan crimes once they gained power. There were clearly people on all sides that had no problem killing innocent men, woman and children. I am not here to preach the issue, but I think the non-politicized truth needs to come out, and this can only be done through a a renewed substantial joint academic effort. I will say that any crimes committed in WWII did not justify the recent ethnic cleansing. This is not a suffering contest. It is the equivalent of going to court on a murder charge and arguing that since your neighbor's grandfather killed someone 80 years ago, you should be freed.

Once again Vucic cannot focus on the issue at hand 'Srebrenica Genocide' but 'attempts' to avert attention elsewhere. Jasenovac has been plagued by years of Serb manipulation with outrageous figures who credible historians up in arms due to the constant lies. The Serbian government know very well that the numbers have been inflated. Where is the names list of the dead from Jasenovac. Show us the names !

This is all happening because the EU will soon be requiring Serbia to take in Muslim immgrants/refugees and they need the Serbian populace to be "open and tolerant" throughout these early stages of the diversity agenda, as what has happened in the West for years.

The first step, is of course to get the Serbs to feel guilty about how they "treated the muslims" during these times, they'll be expected to open their arms to these foreign aliens and sacrifice themselves in order to prove "they're sorry" and not "evil maniacs" as the news and history tries to portray them.

This process happened already in England, Germany and France (in each of these capitals ethnic Europeans are a minority), I surely hope the Serbs look at this and put a stop to it before it's too late.

We support you Serbia - Stand UP - Love from America

I know we (Serbs) can never be at peace with someone who wants our land and deep down inside wants the destruction of our people. I hope with all my heart there will never be real peace in the balkans. I pray that we will one day be able to settle the score with some of our "neighbors" without American involvement. I hope we will be able to send you all back to hell.
(MikeC, 28 July 2015 21:40) # Comment link

MikeC,
For someone who has never set foot in Serbia, hoping there will never be peace in the Balkans indicates you are still a child, intrigued with computer war games. Speak to anyone that had to live through the wars of the 1990's in the former Yugoslavia so you can have your eyes opened to the horrors of war. Now then, isn't it is way past your bedtime.

Why do people come here and pretend to be Jews, "moderate Serbs" or anything else other than what they really are? Do you think that makes your point any more valid that way? The facts on the ground are clear, Serbs were the only nation in that part of Europe that formed not one, but two anti-fascist fronts. To entertain Serbophobic lies for one minute, when did Serbs have even time to kill Jews? When Belgrade was being bombed by the Nazis? When the NDH killed over a million Serbs throughout 20-some concentration camps? When the Germans killed 8000 people at Kragujevac? When?

You're telling me in the midst of all that, the Serbs who were the biggest target of the Nazis in the Balkans just woke up and decided to kill the very same people who were also being targeted by the Nazis?

And where is the proof? Yad Vashem, Simon Wiesenthal Center, American Holocaust Museum... tons of info on the Ustashe, SS Handzar & SS Skenderbeg from them. Nothing on these twisted fantasies you scumbags on here have about Serbia.

Serbia attacked Slovenia.

Serbia attacked Croatia.

Serbia attacked Bosnia.

Serbia attacked Kosova.

Vucic confesses Serbs instigated,attacked and Operated a Criminal Enterprise.

Jasenovic is never an excuse for 1990's GREATER SERBIA Campaign of Genocide,Crimes against Humanity and War Crimes against Brotherhood and Unity former Yugoslav Citizens.

Jasenovac !.

To Bam Bam and other deniers.

In a church-book from 1932 which I have read,
there where 1.500.000 Ortodoxes(Serbs) registerd in Croatia,
1/3rd of Croatias Population of 4 1/2 Millions.

When the Civil war started in Yugoslavia in the 90ies,
Croatia had still only 4 1/2 Million inhabitants and only 600.000 Serbs(Ortodoxes)?

How many was those 600.000 Serbs(Ortodoxes in 1945 ?

400-450.000 ?

More than 1.000.000 Serbs(Ortodoxes) are missing.

Where are those more than 1.000.000 Serbians(Ortodoxes)today ?

How man had they been Today ? 1.400.000 ?.

So - the answer regarding Jasenovac and the Croatian genocide on the Serbians is whery obvious !

Arn.Sweden.

Vucic never sent that Memo to Ari Gold,Ratko,Peggy,Sj,Factman and other habitually ignorant Serb Diaspora.

Serbs slaughtered Jews in WWII? Creative mind you have there. When were Serbs doing this? When they resisted up the majority of not one, but two anti-fascist fronts in the Balkans? Oh you're talking about Belgrade? Well funny thing about that, there was this bombing that took place due to Serbia's resistance [link](1941), which resulted in the direct German military occupation of Serbia and Belgrade. So any Jew that was killed in Serbia was killed by a German, and Serbs died side by side with the Jews.
(Ari Gold, 28 July 2015 20:30)

Mr. Gold,
I hope you are not Jewish of the self-hating kind. It appears your beliefs concerning the connection between Jews and Serbs have been influenced by Serbian propaganda. There has never been any love or empathy toward Jews from Serbs. My family was from Yugoslavia and I remember many of their sad stories of Serbs hunting down Jews during WW II. I sincerely hope that before you die you will learn the truth of how inhumanely the Serbs treated the Jews.

Peggy you pathetic dillusional Chetnik supporter...

If one was to follow your Serb demented thinking then JEWS would have to also "admit" to their crimes against " innocent Nazis"?

Have you noticed Serbs attacked 4 non-Serb ethnicities in former Yugoslavia?

Serbs account for over 90 % of all atrocities but you continue to EQUATE this with the 10% which was allegedly done by the 4 victims of Greater Serbia.....

Confess is great for the soul.

2.5% Can never be 90%

Peggy you have a conscience....no?

The Hague is proof of how many "innocent Serbs " that truly exists.

The Serbian Judicial 'Piggery' are in the process of rehabilitating Serbian fascist leader Milan Nedic. The man with Serbian citizen support organised a 'Juden Frei' Beograd. By the end of the war 90% of Jews in Serbia were wiped out. What is it with Vucic and the Serb government in supporting war criminals like Seselj, Draza and now Nedic......Serbs pretend to be so righteous but ask anyone in the western world what Serbia represents and they will all say ' the killers of BiH' fascism once again is on the rise in Serbia and Instead of denouncing the actions of the Government Peggy is embracing it with open arms.

Is Vucic joking or just trying to say Serbs are slow?!

So many ridiculous and offensive things from this article - If the ppl of Serbia are not aware of all the genocides and war crimes committed in their name, by their leaders, then maybe they should stop limiting their news intake to the Chetnik home press.

But the most offensive point, which Serbia is so desperate to push, is the fake "close connections" between reactionary Serbia and the Jews. Can you imagine, just yesterday we read thAT Vukic and co are intent on so-called rehabilitating Nedic, the great Serb Nazi collaborator, whose govt in conjunction with the home grown fascists helped Germany to make Serbia Judenfrei (Remember the Holocaust??). WW2 Nazi collaborators are the Chetnik heroes, but we Jews have close ties with these Chetniks?!

We are not together with these perpetrators and selective deniers of genocide, then or now. Vuukic can go BLEEP himself.

@Peggy
If you do not consider the siege of Sarajevo a war crime and part of a genocidal plan than our sense of morality is too different to continue this discussion. I don't want to be rude, but either you are purposely twisting the facts or are thoroughly ignorant of them. The Serbs in the 1990s did NOT have the power the Ustashe had in the sense that they UN, NATO and international community were watching them. In fact, NATO finally bombed Serbs positions after they got fed up with attacks on civilians. The threat of foreign military action was always looming over the Serbs heads and they knew it, which is why on one occasion they even tied UN Peacekeepers to poles at their military positions. So please don't try to argue that Serbia could have committed a full scale genocide in Sarajevo as if Yugoslavia existed in a bubble. Serbs couldn't commit wholesale murder so instead their snipers picked off innocent women and children one by one, shelled the city indiscriminately, and bombed bread lines. Again, if Jasenovac and the 1990s are unrelated, then deal with them in that fashion. The issue at hand is not Jasenovac. Whether you think so or not, bringing up Jasenovac in relation to the events of 1990s is an attempt to defend the recent genocidal actions of Serbs or at minimum detract from their severity. Conversely, if you claim the two events are related then you are implicitly admitting that the Serbian actions in the 1990s were revenge for WWII. Which is it?

The serbian PM errs !-

I Quote HIM -

"Serbs understand that people in Bosnia suffered unspeakably," Vucic said in an interview with Sueddeutsche Zeitung, which he gave during his working visit to Bavaria on Monday".

Comment -

All peoples suffer in War on bouth sides,
espessialy in a civil War.

On the other hand,
the Serbians did not begin this civil war and did not want it either.

Arn.Sweden.

"you fascist genocide denier" (Ari)

Really, Ari? You're the only one denying genocide. The one at Srebrenica and other Muslim "safe zones" during the war.

As for the allusion to fascism, look in the mirror.

I don't think Serbs have any issues knowing that crimes were committed, I think we have always know that it is part of war. But it seem like it's the other way around, the US, UK, NATO, Germany, Croatians, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians have always had problems admitting their crimes.

-- Actually this is not true. The only problem Albanians have is with the burning desire Serbs have to equalize the scale and gravity of the crimes committed by Serbs with those of the Albanians. Things were not equal at all. There were no trucks with Serbian bodies thrown in rivers. There were no bodies burried in mass graves, dug out, burned, burried in new mass graves in Serbia, buildings built on top of the mass graves, refusal to digg these graves out for years and identify the bodies, and seeking of funds and favors from the West to get the remains out. This was done only by the Serbs, and Serbia. There is no equivalent to this done by Albanians in Kosova. So crimes were not equal. That is the issue we have. Your desire to minimize the scale and gravity of the crimes commited by Serbs by creating a false equivalency. Truth matters. Did Albanians commit crimes? Sure. Were they of the same scale and severity? Not even close.This is the issue we have with the Serb government. It is not enough to acknowledge crimes, even though they do that for Bosnia, less so for Kosova, but it is also important to acknowledge the scale and severity of such crimes when compared to those of your neighbors.

The only source of great instability has always been Serbia. As for the good relations you have built with Albania you will see in October. It is time to return you serbs the favor of what happened last October in Belgrade.
(Mark, 28 July 2015 17:49)

Mark,
I agree fully with you, Serbia has been and continues to be a source of great instability in the Balkans. However, being an Albanian I'm sure you know very well that we Albanians always treat our guests with utmost respect. Albania's fans will NOT treat the Serbian futbol team poorly in Elbasan, as they were barbarically treated in Belgrade. Not that it would happen as it did in Belgrade but, we would protect the Serbian players with our lives, if need be. We will show the Serbs and the World who we really are and will make our nation proud. We will not behave as the Serbian fans did and disgrace their nation as they did in Belgrade last October.

@ Ari Gold Senior Hypocrite:

When Greater Serbia illegaly evicted one million Kosovar civilians infamous Serb propaganda claimed Kosovars were supposedly conducting complicated delicate organ snatching of Serb aggressors.

And yet to this day not one identified "Serb victims exist".

@Yiddish Mama
I am happy that you brought up this issue. Many Serbian commentators try to twist WWII history by attaching themselves to the suffering of the Jews because both group were the target of fascist war crimes. The reality is that prior to receiving backing from the Allies, the Serbs were all too happy to extend a welcome to Hitler. In fact, Belgrade was the first city in Europe to proudly declare itself "Jew-free" to the pleasure of its fuhrer. What changed? Did the Serbian nation in a few months suddenly find a new sense of morality, or was it what the Allies just had more to offer? The fact of the matter is that Yugoslavia was a power game at the time. The leaders of the Ustashe, Chetniks and Partisans did not form these group and fight for moral principles. They either had something to gain in terms of nationalistic agenda or individually. Many of the ordinary soldiers were simply fought to fight against their will. Pavelic was an evil man, but Tito was not a moral man simply for helping to defeat Pavelic and taking power for himself. Tito was a bloodthirsty murderer in his own right, greedy and power-hungry. He did what he had to to consolidate power in Yugoslavia, not out of a sense of the "unity and brotherhood" farce. Today, whenever an issue of WWII history comes into question, many Serbs shamelessly attach themselves to the plight of the Jews at this time even though they were partly responsible for that plight. They need to be called out for this.

This is a positive step forward, but all sides to need to acknowledge crimes were committed by all factions in the wars. I think the Serb government is going along way for stability and peace.

"Looks like Ari failed elementary math. 80,000 people killed in Jasenovac. Serbs, Jews, Gypsies, Muslims and Croats too."

Bob

Yes, serbs, jews, gypsies, muslims and croats too but how come you fail to acknowledge that the same thing happened in Bosnia? Bosnia was more then just Srebrenica, no? The reason croats, muslims and albanians want to keep the serbs feel bad for what they have done, and minimize what they themselves are responsible for, is to justify what happened i Jasenovac, the ethnic cleansing of 250.000 serbs from Croatia and the 200.000 from Kosovo as well as the dismantlement of RS. I don't care what Vucic or some other serbs say. I know we can never be at peace with someone who wants our land and deep down inside wants the destruction of our people. I hope with all my heart there will never be real peace in the balkans. I pray that we will one day be able to settle the score with some of our "neighbors" without American involvement. I hope we will be able to send you all back to hell.

Bob, you need to check your facts.

The Nazi SS (and not the Serbs) eliminated the Jews of Belgrade after they bombed Belgrade into submission and conquered the country. That bombing killed 20,000 Serbs in only 3 days as punishment for defying Hitler. The Nazi's were in charge. So what you say is kind of backwards.

Slso, the Serbs/ Montenegrins and the Greeks were the only Balkan countries on the side of the Allies. The Bosnians and Croatians, and Albanians, And Romanians, and Bulgarians, were not. So the case you are making is really strange.

Also, the American Museum of the Holocaust places the number of Serbs killed by Ustasha at 330,000 (and says more research needs to be done).

You should check the facts. You may wish to begin with what Nazi generals themselves had to say about Jasenovac. Next go to the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust. Then check out the American Museum of the Holocaust. Then check out the Simin Wisenthal Institute. Yad Vashem would be good too. May pbe then you can quote Franjo Tudjman!

, the ethnic cleansing of 250.000 serbs from Croatia and the 200.000 from Kosovo as well as the dismantlement of RS.

Mike C - this is not possible in Kosovo to have lost 200K Serbs to have been kicked out.

There are 150K Serbs living in Kosovo today if you take 40K Serbs police and military many left no issue about it but more like 50K Serbs which have it better in Serbia as they sld proprty in Kosovo go see in BG many cars with Kosovo plates pay no insurance etc.

Ari Gold aka factman,
Try as you might to minimize all the war crimes committed by Serbs during the Balkan wars of 1912-1914, WW II, and the wars in former Yugoslavia during the 1990's, there is much too much documentation and evidence available to prevent you from denying the many organized genocides committed in the name of Serbia. Many reputable unbiased historians have written extensively on Serbia's horrific atrocities. Ari/factman, I get much satisfaction you will never be able to suppress or destroy any of the existing evidence because of modern technology's ability to store secured information. Nevertheless, I invite you, MikeC and other despicable chetniks to have a go of it.

Ari please entertain us with your lies....
When did Kosovars have time to perform these organ snatching operations using Serbs ?...

When Serbs we're conducting Operation HorseShoe?

When Serbs raped over 10,000 Kosovar women?

When your cowards soldiers murdered infants,children,elderly,pregnant women and young men?

Serbia's Human Rights Kandic could educate you Ari.

@Peggy

You criticize Vucic for making assumptions yet your comments are riddled with assumptions of your own. Jasenovac and Srebrenica are unrelated as your own comment suggests. Every time Serbian war crimes from the 1990s are discussed, however, many Serbian commentators attempt to turn the conversation to WWII. Why go back to WWII only? Why not go back even further to the formation of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, or better yet, Roman times? The history on Jesenovac is all over the place from the tens of thousands killed to over 700,000, which includes Croatian and Bosnian victims. This is a problem and shows me that politics are at issue. Like I said, the right thing to do is get the truth out with a joint and honest study. If the truth is damning to Croatians, so be it. If it is damning to Serbs, so be it as well. The current back and forth is just deepening animosity. Also, I want to reiterate that we should not confuse lack of power with morality. There is no question in my mind that the people that committed crimes in Srebrenica would have killed many more people if they had the opportunity. The Ustashe had Hitler's backing and were able to do more damage largely for that reason. If you need proof of this consider that Jasenovac was operational for 4 years, while 8,000 people were killed in Srebrenica in just 2 days! What do you think the Bosnian Serbs would have done if they had more time and power?

"Kosovo will not be a source of some greater instability, among other things, because Serbia has built good relations with Albania."

The only source of great instability has always been Serbia. As for the good relations you have built with Albania you will see in October. It is time to return you serbs the favor of what happened last October in Belgrade.

'Bob', an open genocide denier. What a surprise.

When is he having tea with David Irving next?

I am the earlier Bob in these postings. I don't agree at all with the other Bob's post.

Please B92, introduce name registration so we don't get conflicting names in these blogs.
(Bob, 28 July 2015 22:39)
Maybe a lesson can be taken from Macedonia and you could be recognized as (Formerly Bob of B92 Forums)or FBOB92F. Since it is an issue to you to retain the screen name BOB and distinguish yourself from other Bob's.

"90% of Serbs realized for first time crimes were committed"

The typical excuse for self protection. After WW2, many Germans claimed they didn't know anything about killing Jews.

My family was from Yugoslavia and I remember many of their sad stories of Serbs hunting down Jews during WW II. I sincerely hope that before you die you will learn the truth of how inhumanely the Serbs treated the Jews.

(Yiddish mama, 29 July 2015 04:01)

Don’t forget that those were Serbs and Russians who made it possible that you and your Ashkenazi children were ever born.

Azir - You are a coward and a fraud. You made unsubstantiated claims that SerbNet paid millions of dollars to Gen. Lewis McKenzie to spread Serb proaganda. When I asked you to provide credible sources to to statements you ran away like the coward that you are. YOU COULDN'T PROVIDE ANY SOURCES TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS! What a surprise.

You have no credibility at all. It's ironic that you accuse Serbs of propaganda when you spread propaganda with each and every stroke of your keyboard. Come back with some credible and verifiable sources to your many ridiculous claims. Until then, you are just another anonymous coward.

Run along now, the Serbian owned restaurant that you work at needs the floors swept.

@Ari Gold
I just noticed your comments and they are beyond ridiculous. You lost all credibility when you quoted Avro Manhattan, which you claim is a Roman Catholic and a scholar. Avro Manhattan is neither a Catholic nor a scholar, but one of the most virulently anti-Catholic yellow journalists of his era. His agenda is and has always been to discredit the Catholic Church for which he has open contempt, so naturally he will attribute war crimes to not just the Church, but Catholic doctrine itself, which is absurd. His writings fall into the category of conspiracy theory rather than serious academic discussion. The fact that you even quote this joke of an author makes you lose all credibility and shows us you have no interest in learning the facts, but instead are pushing some of the most sensationalized anti-Catholic rhetoric in existence. Do you also believe the story that Pavelic had a jar of Serbian eyes on his desk? How about Santa Claus? Do you even look at the background of the sources you read and quote, or do you just consider how closely related they are to you own views? Please stop spreading your and others' lies here. There can be no reconciliation without truth, but it looks to me like you are more interested in keeping the war going.

And same time supports Dodik while saying this.

This is not a suffering contest. It is the equivalent of going to court on a murder charge and arguing that since your neighbor's grandfather killed someone 80 years ago, you should be freed.
(Tomislav, 28 July 2015 22:47)
# Comment link
================
I see you have trouble with comprehension. Nobody is saying that because someone's grandfather got killed 80 years ago it absolves the person who kills someone today. What is being said is that if the west wants crimes committed in Srebrenica to be classified a genocide and they want Serbs to apologise for that and punish the guilty then they must also classify Jasenovac as genocide for it was a far worse crime.
Also why do you lump Partizans with Serbs? Sure, most Partizans were Serbs but first and foremost they were Communists and the other ethnic groups also participated in the Partizan movement. Maybe a Croatian or a Bosniak committed a terrible crime but all you want to do is chalk that up to Serbs too because a Partizan did it.
Try to look at things objectively and accurately.
I for one, have never disputed that Serbs committed crimes and have always said that all sides did, as most Serbs here so Vucic saying that 90% of Serbs are just now realizing this is wrong. How does he know that? Was a survey taken recently? We know about our crimes because our people have been charged and sent to Hague and yes some are not guilty but all we want is for the others to admit it too.

How can he say Serbs won't accept indepedent Kosovo? Serbs do accept independent Kosovo. B92/ipsos poll is clear, 63% say Kosovo is independent. Al the Serbian athletes competed against Kosovo in euro games 2015. There is a Serb ambassador. Serbs are border guards and customs agents. Serb parliament is unanimously pro eu! No radicals and no dveri and No dss, they put Kosovo in the constitution and are no longer in parliament! Serbia wants Kosovo out of its constitution! Vucic was talking about a referendum a few months ago!

The Serbian Judicial 'Piggery' are in the process of rehabilitating Serbian fascist leader Milan Nedic. The man with Serbian citizen support organised a 'Juden Frei' Beograd. By the end of the war 90% of Jews in Serbia were wiped out. What is it with Vucic and the Serb government in supporting war criminals like Seselj, Draza and now Nedic......Serbs pretend to be so righteous but ask anyone in the western world what Serbia represents and they will all say....


How would you know Ustasha? Milan Nedic took over the National Front of Serbia just like in similar fashion to the Vichy government in France, to save Serbia from letting the Ustasha, Bulgaria and Hungarian Nazi's to commit more Genocide in Serbia proper. Milan Nedic Saved Serbs and Jews from the Croatian Ustasha and Nazi's. Unfortunately, the Communists killed him without trial. General Milan Nedic was a highly decorated soldier fighting in both Balkan Wars and World War I where 25% of the population died to free the south Yugoslav people from Austro-Hungary and that includes Croatia.

From Tomislav: "Many Serbian commentators try to twist WWII history by attaching themselves to the suffering of the Jews because both group were the target of fascist war crimes."

Would you accuse Efraim Zuroff, head of the Simon Wiesenthal Center and renowned Nazi hunter, of twisting WWII history for stating that Serbs and Jews suffered genocide during WWII at the hands of the Nazis and Croatian Ustasha? Please comment Tomislav.

More from Tomislav: "The reality is that prior to receiving backing from the Allies, the Serbs were all too happy to extend a welcome to Hitler... In fact, Belgrade was the first city in Europe to proudly declare itself "Jew-free".

This is a popular tactic employed by Croats when they cannot defend their ugly WWII history. The Serbs staged a military coup and decided to fight the Nazis against insurmountable odds. As a result of Serb defiance, Hitler bombed Belgrade unmercilessly. Germany then occupied Belgrade while the Serbs formed the 1st resistance (Chetniks) in Europe to fight the Nazis. Conversely, Croats welcomed Hitler into Zagreb with a parade with no resistance. Your attempt to equate the two is shameful.

You are a Croat revisionist trying to rewrite the ugly history of your countrymen. Tell us why anyone should believe your 'twisted' version of WWII history as opposed to Efraim Zuroff who has spent his entire adult life researching WWII and hunting Nazi criminals. Sorry Tomo, the smart money is on Zuroff. You'e a clown.

Tomislav,

I am now calling you out for deceit.

Fact: Serbs fought on the side of the Allies. Everyone else in the Balkans except Greeks fought for Nazis

Fact: Oh wait, was that the Royal Yugo generals who tore up Hitler's contract and defied him?

Fact: Belgrade was bombed into oblivion and 20,000 civilians died in 3 days. Who was a Nazi? check and see if their cities were devastated

Fact: To this day Jews and many other minorities live in BG, while all other capitals are homogenous. Serbia (is the most ethnically diverse in the Balkans)

Fact: Oh, was that up to 3300k Serbs who were killed in Jasenovac according to the American Museum of the Holocaust? Or the up to 600k that the Jewish written Encylopedia of the Holocaust says?

Fact: Oh, wait, was that Chetnik Commander Draza Mihailovich who was given the Congressional Medal of Honor by Pres. Harry Truman under recommendation of Gen. Dwight Eisenhower Supreme Commander of Allied Forces

Fact: Oh wait, was that Chetnik Commander Draza Mihailovich who was offered to be airlifted out of Serbia by the US when Serbia fell to the communists

Fact: Oh wait, was that Chetnik Commander Pavle Djurasic who lived in America his whole life protected by the US from attempts to deport him (while people like Artukovic were sent back for their crimes)?

Fact: Jews love Serbs. And they dislike all of you, because you are all revisionists.

Go back to school to re-learn the fine art of deceit. You suck at it.

Yiddish Mama:

I am not Ari Gold

I am factman

You can broadcast it all across the world, but it still doesn't make it true: Jews know who Serbs are, and were

PS: It is fairly evident that you are neither Yidddish, nor a Mama

The Chetniks that formed after the Nazi occupation (the first such resistance movement in Europe) were comprised of Yugoslav Royalist forces.

-- Factman, what you have in parentheses is total bull$hit. Another feel good story for the Serbs to make themselves feel better; because of course we all know the Serbs are macho. The first resistance movement in Europe. Cut the crap. There were resistance movements everywhere in Europe. I forgot, you checked the Chetnics Facebook page and determined that they were the first to open a Facebook page of the kind in Europe at that time.

@Factman Your writings demonstrate the fact that you are trying ever so hard so portray erudition,yet your arguments are logically flawed, don't address my points directly and show that you are so biased that you care more to defend Serb aggression than learn the truth. Since it's pointless arguing with an obvious nationalist that sees the massacre at the Vukovar hospital as a footnote, let me leave you with the following insight: Look at Serbia today. Look where your nationalism has gotten you. You have no idea how uninterested people outside of Serbia are in your nationalistic rantings. The world has moved on-you keep talking about the minor role you played in WWII and the Medieval battle you lost at Kosovo. The fact of the matter is Croatia is in the EU and NATO. When you mentioned Serbs in Western countries, the first thoughts that pop to mind are criminals, assassins and mass murderers. This is a fact you cannot argue. Even the movies often use a Serbian character as the murderous gangster-villain because that's simply what people understand you as. You were bombed by NATO for good reason. The world has spoken as to what it thinks about you when you lost Kosovo. You've been abandoned. You can keep wearing your silly little hats and waving your three fingers, but in the grand scheme of things it means nothing - absolutely nothing. Nobody cares. It's that simple. I guess you need to have something to keep you going when your GDP per capita is less than that of Iraq -sad.

Vucic never sent that Memo to Ari Gold,Ratko,Peggy,Sj,Factman and other habitually ignorant Serb Diaspora.
(Azir, 28 July 2015 22:39)
================================
Stop spreading your BS here. I have never said that Serbs did not commit crimes. I have always said that all sides did but the others have to admit it and apologise to us too. So I challenge you to produce evidence here where I said that Serbs did not commit crimes. Either do it or stop lying. On the contrary it is your lot who has never admitted to one crime committed by Albanians, Croatians or Bosniaks.
So go ahead and show me where I said that Serbs didn't commit any crimes.

(Yiddish mama, 30 July 2015 00:58)

I am not factman, I don't see how it would give my arguments any more legitimacy if I were to pose under different names. If we are talking about evidence, can't you please show me the evidence that says Serbs committed genocide against Jews in WWII. You say it's there, I can't find it. Please present it.

I mean I'd like to see where Serbs massacred Jews at all. I've given you examples of Operation Retribution, Kragujevac Massacre, Novi Sad Logor, Jasenovac, Stara Gradiska. These are historical facts. So where are yours?

If you need proof of this consider that Jasenovac was operational for 4 years, while 8,000 people were killed in Srebrenica in just 2 days! What do you think the Bosnian Serbs would have done if they had more time and power?
(Tomislav, 30 July 2015 00:36)
=====================
The Serbs did have more time and power. Are you forgetting that Serbs had Sarajevo under siege for a long time so why didn't they just go on the killing spree there?
Serbs had other areas under their control for years as well but hey, no genocide. That was lasted years and Serbs had opportunities to commit genocide in their areas of control if they were that way inclined.
Yes, I would love nothing better than for all sides to get together and own up to their crimes. I am not worried about Serbs being blamed for some crimes because I acknowledge that they did take place. In any war there is always going to be a certain element ready to do evil on all sides. Serbs have admitted to crimes and that's on record but Croatians and Muslims haven't. So please go and try to convince them to do it. You are preaching to the choir here.
The reason we keep going back to Jasenovac is because Serbs have never received justice for that, not even an apology and it was in recent history. Some people are still alive today. Jasenovac was part of a reason why Serbs were so spooked when Croatia went back to their Nazi ways and seceded.

Pavle Djurasic & Draza where convicted by the allied courts of YU for treason and murder of the citizens of that country. Draza may have saved a few dumb 'Yanks' from the war / so what, does that mean because the Americans gave him a medal that he or his men never performed evil acts. When Hitler presented the Iron Cross to fellow soldiers were they all performing there duties as per the Geneva Convention. Pavle could never return to his place of birth because he knows very well that crimes committed by his forces were subject to war crimes of the worst kind. If Draza was such a saint as Serbs think why hasn't Obama come out in support of this claim.... !

Tomislav:

1. Read further down the page from that website: Parag 7: "The Croat authorities murdered between 320,000 and 340,000 ethnic Serb residents of Croatia and Bosnia during the period of Ustaša rule. It would appear that my facts are correct... and your's are wrong.

2. Jasenovac was actually a complex of five major and three smaller "special" camps spread out over 240 square kilometers. What about Stara Gradiska? Donja Gradinja? Ustica?

3. I did not say 700k, but 600k and I quoted the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust for that (look it up to see that it is an accurate figure quoted). Please make sure you get your facts right.

4. The Partisans represented Serbs, Croats, and Bosniaks. Not just Serbs. If they were the majority it is only because Serbs were the majority throughout Yugoslavia. Furthermore, please do not associate Tito with my commentary.

5. Vukovar was destroyed because it was war and Croat military units stayed to the last man. Regarding those executed in the hospital, yes it was cowardly. But please don't say they were all old and feeble because you know that was not true. They ethnically cleansed that town of all Serbs (like they did the entire country).

6. No one fights wars out of morality. Everyone fights war out of self interest.

7. The fact remains you were on the wrong side of the war and only the Greeks and Serbs were on the right side. All your other comments are speculation about what might have been.

Factman, cut the crap. The french, the poles, the chzechs and just about any country that was invaded by the Germans before Serbia had underground guerrilla movements.

As always the Serbs like to think of themselves as some supreme beings, the first, the strongest, the bravest, machoest, the winners. The heavenly kingdoms. The winners of lost battles. Myths and fairy tales. As if the rest of Europe was sleeping. Of course the truth and reality is much different. Serbia like most of the Balkans is a small impoverished country of no significance in the global scale. That's why the world talks about D day and Norwegian heavy water saboteurs and not Serbia. Serbia is strong, first,bravest, heavenly, winner, only in the minds of deluded Serbs. Reality is and has always been much different. One cannot be strongest, bravest, first, heavenly, macho, winners, and be a victim at the same time. This is schizofrenic but Serbs claim to be both at the same time. Total, lethal damage and glorious winners against the NAZIS and the Turks yet the most persecuted and victimized. The whole narrative is totally bat$hit crazy.

If all of these other resistance movements existed before the Chetniks did, please tell us who they were, when they were organized and what they accomplished. WWII may be the most written about war in the history of the world. Surely you can find some reliable sources that back up your claims, can't you j? Until then, you're just another Serb-bashing Albanian with no credibility.
(njegos, 5 August 2015 15:21)

--Sure. The Poles. Took less then 30 seconds.

Some armchair Serb patriot willing to believe in unicorns and heavenly kingdoms, has no say on defining who is what.

This is all happening because the EU will soon be requiring Serbia to take in Muslim immgrants/refugees and they need the Serbian populace to be "open and tolerant" throughout these early stages of the diversity agenda, as what has happened in the West for years.

The first step, is of course to get the Serbs to feel guilty about how they "treated the muslims" during these times, they'll be expected to open their arms to these foreign aliens and sacrifice themselves in order to prove "they're sorry" and not "evil maniacs" as the news and history tries to portray them.

This process happened already in England, Germany and France (in each of these capitals ethnic Europeans are a minority), I surely hope the Serbs look at this and put a stop to it before it's too late.

We support you Serbia - Stand UP - Love from America
(David, 28 July 2015 20:32)


Just to add to my previous comment earlier today, it should be made clear that this isn't about taking blame of some all of a sudden change in conscious. The Serbs did what they had to do.

This is about the direction Europe is heading, not about Balkan affairs by a long shot.

More from Tomislav: "The world has moved on-you keep talking about the minor role you played in WWII and the Medieval battle you lost at Kosovo."

A quick look at Croat military history and it's no surprise that this upsets Croats like yourself. Croats were A-H vassals for 900 years; Croats fought on the losing side with Germany in WWI then begged the Serbs to take them into Yugoslavia; Croats aligned themselves with the worst killing-machine in modern history, the Nazis during WWII and lost; Croats needed NATO to fight their battles against Serbs in 1991-95.

With a military history like that Tomislav, I would never even the subject up. You're embarrassing your own people.

Once again, "everybody knows" Serbs committed "horrible crimes" in the breakup of the SFRY. And we know it wasn't genocide.

But why do we never hear what those crimes were? What were the crimes? We do know they were war crimes and not crimes against humanity as we saw in Nuremberg after WWII.

So what were the war crimes and what did the Serbs do to make them crimes of war? If it really was so horrible and hard to miss, we would have the actual events more fixed in our minds as a public matter, especially with people like Vucic constantly wringing their hands in public about it.

Ari Gold

“Serbs were the only nation in that part of Europe that formed not one, but two anti-fascist fronts”

Serbian/Montenegrins made 60-70% of all the partisans of central, eastern and southern Europe including Greece, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Albanians everywhere, Poland, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakians. In Poland they had 380 000 partisans of Armia Kraiova that sat with their wives and only 30 000 really good partisans of Armia Ljudowa. What is important S/M partisans started their war in spring of 1941 while the rest mostly in 1944 when the Victory was only a matter of time. Yes there was some episodic resistance everywhere but only Brits, S/M and the USSR launched uncompromised national war. In 1943-44 Soviet partisans were sent to boost the movement in Poland, Czechoslovakia and Bulgaria. Strong though split was the Greek movement. Yet combat losses of the S/M partisans (300 000) exceeded total losses of all the partisans in eastern Europe and Balkans. Even the 20 000 Albanians were 20-30 times less than the two Great S/M armies. Serbs wrote their history with their own blood unlike other postwar HOW I WON THE WAR STORIES written with ink.

P.S. By the way today is a black day for those who think that WW2 was just an episode in the Holocaust tragedy. Because today the Russian government finally revealed all the documents concerning Oswentsym including the German ones. Many will be happy to learn that the tragedy was not that big.

Dumb comment #1 from Bam Bam: "Draza may have saved a few dumb 'Yanks' from the war / so what..."

Now you have managed to insult American servicemen and their memories with yet another of your irresponsible comments. It shouldn't surprise anyone on this forum that you would call US servicemen 'dumb Yanks' in view of the fact that you have openly supported the barbaric acts of the Croatian Nazi Ustasha many times on this board. This is a regime that declared war on the US and to this day have never rescinded that declaration of war. Nice company you keep Bam Bam.

Dumb comment #2: "If Draza was such a saint as Serbs think why hasn't Obama come out in support of this claim.... !"

What claim are you talking about? President Truman awarded Mihailovich the Legion of Merit which is the highest military award a non-American can receive from the US gov't. What does Obama have to do with WWII Yugoslavia? You are a moron! I've never heard Obama come out in support of Davey Crockett for his role at the Alamo, so does that mean he wasn't an American hero? Your comments are irrelevant and idiotic, as usual. Your shameful attempt to rewrite history and equate Serb activity during WWII to that of your Nazi-following countrymen is truly appalling.

Hey Factman:
You need to check your facts.
Fact: The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum PRESENTLY estimates that the Ustasha regime murdered between 77,000 and 99,000 people in Jasenovac in a FOUR YEAR period - not 300k and certainly not 700k. Look it up! That figure includes not just Serbs but other groups.
Fact: According to British Scholar Misha Glenny, approximately 80,000 CROATIANS, unarmed soldiers and civilians, were executed at Bleiburg in a FIVE DAY period in 1945 by Partisans (aka Serbs with a different hat).
Fact: Serbian nationalist barbarians executed over 8,000 Bosniaks at Srebrenica in TWO DAYS in 1995.
Fact: Serbs ruthlessly and unnecessarily destroyed Vukovar and executed dozens of feeble and elderly at Skabrnja.
Fact: Serbs created MILLIONS of refugees by way of their barbarism in the 1990s.
Fact: Serbs were en route to ethnically cleanse parts of Kosovo until the Americans spanked them in 1999.
Your Conclusion: Serbs have the moral high ground. No matter what crimes they committed in the 1990s or may commit in the future, let's ALWAYS bring the discussion back to Jasenovac.
As to the other commentators, I will reiterate that the Chetniks did not fight the Nazis out of a sense of morality. They did so out of nationalistic self interest. Again, weakness does not equal morality. If the Nazis offered them the greater Serbian they wanted, they would have jumped on the band wagon and committed crimes as numerous as the Ustashe if not greater.

I'm struggling to believe this. Is Mr Vucic saying that the propaganda was so effective in the 1990s that only 10% of the population knew that atrocities had been committed? I find this very difficult to accept, Serbs are some of the savvy people I know and even if they didn't have all the details at their fingertips they must have strongly suspected that horrible things were going on (on whichever side).

Hi j,

You are funny.

You guys all need to go back to school. Learn the facts!

Here is one source: Time Magazine (reporting live from the war)

http://kingdom-of-yugoslavia-in-ww2.com/america-in-ww2-yugoslavia/005-cetnici-na-naslovnoj-strani-njuzvika-3/

"Hitler had hardly turned his back on Yugoslavia when the country erupted in a spontaneous revolt... THE CHETNIKS WERE THE FIRST - and for a short while ONLY - ORGANIZED GUERRILLA FORCE TO TAKE FIELD."

"Ever since Adolf Hitler vaingloriously announced a year ago that he had conquered Yugoslavia, Draja Mihailovic and his 150,000 guerrillas in the mountains south-west of Belgrade have flung the lie in Hitler's teeth. IT HAS BEEN PROBABLY THE GREATEST GUERRILLA OPERATION IN HISTORY... (A long list of achievements follows...)"

"(Mihailovic) has already become the great symbol of the unknown thousands of supposedly conquered Europeans who still resist Adolf Hitler..."

The Chetniks were the first. May 18, 1941

There are many other sources online.

Learn the facts!

Wrong again j. There are several reliable sources that verify that the Serbian Chetniks were the 1st resistance to the Nazis in WWII Europe. One in particular is Michael Lees, a British Intelligence Officer stationed in Yugoslavia during WWII. Read his book, The Rape of Serbia, then come back for a discussion.

Now, ask yourself, should the B92 readers believe what Michael Lees wrote after spending the WWII years in the theater of war, or you, an anonymous blogger with no credientials only known for his Serb bashing. Run along now, you have some reading to do.

-- I don't give a crap about bashing Serbs. It's of no interest to me. It's Bull$hit I can't stand. Sarah Palin wrote a book, and she was a Governor. Borrowing authority from your job title doesn't make anything anymore credible. It's just fluff on top of your Bull$hit. So writing a book doesn't mean $hit. Everything you and Factman claim defies logic and reality. You had a whole bunch of European countries invaded by Germany years before, yet Serbia is the first one to form resistance groups. One would have to have no brain cells to believe crap like this. Myths like this are are offensive to the peoples of Europe who died resisting the NAZIS because it flatly denies their existence and frankly in the effort to paint the Serbs as Gods you're painting the others, who actually resisted for years before the Germans made it into your backyards, as cowards. Reality was not like this. There were plenty of groups.

More from Tomo: "When you mentioned Serbs in Western countries, the first thoughts that pop to mind are criminals, assassins and mass murderers."

I travel quite a bit, and I have never found this to be true. Yet when Croatia is mentioned, most people know nothing about the country. The ones that do, however, immediately bring up Croatia's Nazi alliance during WWII. It's obvious why Croats like yourself attempt to avoid any mention of WWII. Sad. This is a fact you cannot argue.

Tomo says: "I guess you need to have something to keep you going when your GDP per capita is less than that of Iraq -sad."

Intersesting statement in view of the fact that Croatia has experiencesd a decline in GDP for 6 straight years while Serbia's has grown in 12 of the past 15 years.

And let's not forget the billions of dollars that the west and EU has poured into Croatia and your ship is still sinking.

Serbia on the other hand, has shown consistent growth despite its infrastructure being decimated by NATO bombs, economic sanctions and housing more displaced people than any other country in the Balkans.

Foreign investment continues to grow in Serbia while it is virtually nonexistent in Croatia. Now with a rabid nationalist like Kitarovic as President, Croatia will sink deeper into the abyss. BTW, what is her economic platform? Oh, that's right, she doesn't have one. She was elected on her anti-Serb platform. That will get you far in today's world. LOL

I am the earlier Bob in these postings. I don't agree at all with the other Bob's post.

Please B92, introduce name registration so we don't get conflicting names in these blogs.

(Ari Gold, 28 July 2015 20:30)

My mistake, I posted the wrong "Operation Retribution", Here is the correct link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Retribution_(1941)

I am the earlier Bob in these postings. I don't agree at all with the other Bob's post.

Please B92, introduce name registration so we don't get conflicting names in these blogs.
(Bob, 28 July
============================
You might need to add something to your name then like Bob the first or similar. Introducing registration might not be the way B92 wants to go especially when this can be easily sorted out. I have had people impersonating me here at times which is not good but seeing how I am the only Peggy here it's easy to pick out the imposter. Everyone knows my views by now and wouldn't fall for the trick. Seeing how there is at least three Bobs you will need to add something to your name to separate yourself from the others.

Can Vučić please become my country's prime minister?

I am not Ari Gold

I am factman


I really do not get where everyone makes the claims that these two are the same person.
Their posts are not even close to being the same.

Here is a history lesson for everyone.

The Chetniks that formed after the Nazi occupation (the first such resistance movement in Europe) were comprised of Yugoslav Royalist forces. As such they were disciplined and trained. They did not commit atrocities. Of course, there are exceptions to this and there are renegade personalities, and also war has a way of brininging out the worst in people. But for the most part, not.

However, This movement became very popular and over time, other areas in Serbia, Bosnia, etc, began to form units called "Chetniks." For the most part (but not entirely) most of these were ad hoc formations. Sime were sanctioned with the support and blessing of Mihailovich, but so many were simply people who took up arms, called themselves "Chetniks" and did what they wanted without overview of senior officers of the discipline that comes with being a military person. Mihailovich had nothing to so with this nor would his. guerilla fighters even have an infrastructure to police these so called "Chetniks"

Regarding Obama, what the heck does Obama hav to do with Mihailovich? presid nt Harry Truman gave him the medl by recommendation of future President Eisenhower.

You can minimize why Mijaiilovich received the highest honor that a foreign national can ever receive, but that would be silly. He rescued 500 US airman trapped under enemy fire of the Nazis. This alone shows taht Mihailovich was neither fascist nor Nazi.

God Bless Draza!

Lets clarify the "all parts committed crimes" discussion

— Final report of the United Nations Commission of Experts -
"All parties involved in the conflict have committed «grave breaches» of the Geneva Conventions and other violations of international humanitarian law. These violations include the killing of civilians, rape torture, and the deliberate destruction of civilian property, including cultural and religious property, such as churches and mosques. But, there are significant qualitative differences. Most of the violations were committed by Serbs against Bosnian Muslims.[7]"

From j: "The french, the poles, the chzechs and just about any country that was invaded by the Germans before Serbia had underground guerrilla movements."

Wrong again j. There are several reliable sources that verify that the Serbian Chetniks were the 1st resistance to the Nazis in WWII Europe. One in particular is Michael Lees, a British Intelligence Officer stationed in Yugoslavia during WWII. Read his book, The Rape of Serbia, then come back for a discussion.

Now, ask yourself, should the B92 readers believe what Michael Lees wrote after spending the WWII years in the theater of war, or you, an anonymous blogger with no credientials only known for his Serb bashing. Run along now, you have some reading to do.

From j: "Borrowing authority from your job title doesn't make anything anymore credible. It's just fluff on top of your Bull$hit. So writing a book doesn't mean $hit."

j - The source I gave you, Michael Lees, was not some academic who wrote a book based on research, he wrote based on his experiences during the war. He lived it. And he was not Serbian, thus he had no vested interest in not telling the truth.

Now, again I ask, should the B92 readers believe you, a known Serb-basher with zero creditials, or Michael Lees who wrote about his experiences during WWII.

If all of these other resistance movements existed before the Chetniks did, please tell us who they were, when they were organized and what they accomplished. WWII may be the most written about war in the history of the world. Surely you can find some reliable sources that back up your claims, can't you j? Until then, you're just another Serb-bashing Albanian with no credibility.

Please j, you are clearly in over your head. Please list the accomplishments of the Polish resistance. As I have stated, several WWII historians name the Serb Chetniks as the 1st organized resistance movement to oppose Hitler. To be sure, Hitler invaded Poland in 1939, well before Yugoslavia. And some Polish groups opposed the Nazis, but did not organize themselves militarily as Cheniks did immediately after the Nazi occupation of Yugoslavia. The Chetniks kept seven German divisions occupied early after they took to the hills to oppose the Nazis and their allies which incuded your Albanian countrymen j.

I can make an arguement that the Chetniks existed before WWI (which they did) but that would just make your little head spin more than it already is.

From Tomislav: "Look at Serbia today. Look where your nationalism has gotten you. You have no idea how uninterested people outside of Serbia are in your nationalistic rantings."

Nationalistic rantings? Last time I checked none of your allies came to celebrate your Ustasha orgy on Aug. 4 & 5. Those you thought were your friends are distancing themselves from you because of your rabid nationalism.

What other place in the world celebrates the Nazi movement?

What other place in the world holds memorial services for convicted war criminals the way Croatia does annualy for Ante Pavelic in Zagreb?

What other country's soccer fans use the Nazi-Ustasha stiff-arm salute while chanting nationalist slogans?

What other country paints swastikas on their soccer field?

What other European country is more than 90% homogenous with its largest minority consisting of only 4% of the total population?

Answer these questions and then we'll have a discussion on nationalism. You are the worst kind of hypocrite.

@njegos. Why you mad? It's easy to grow your economy percentage-wise when its rubbish to start with. If you have 1 factory and you put up another 1, you've just grown your economy by 100%. Congratulations! The fact of the matter is that Serbia is still broke, desperate and decades behind Croatia. Your FDI is the result of cheap labor. Keep working for pennies and foreign companies will flood in; try to raise wages and off they go. You've traveled a bunch have you? Belgrade to Novi Sad doesn't count, buddy. I travel all over Europe for work regularly and I can confirm that people generally have a very negative view of Serbs. My Scandinavian colleagues tell me there's a lot of Serbs involved in organized crime there and generally do not interact with them. My Dutch colleagues tell me that anytime a criminal needs to put out a hit, they use Serbs. And why wouldn't they? Serbs have the most experience killing. Croatia does not glorify Nazism, far from it. It's your fans that regularly brand your silly little Chetnik hats at football matches - the uniform of losers. It's your country that worshiped a war criminal paramilitary leader and his rooted for his soccer club. It's your people that hold rallies for convinced war criminals in the tens of thousands even this year! It's your people that turned the murderer Milosevic into a demigod. The world has spoken on Serbia. And the numbers don't lie - your GDP per capita is below Iraq. Now be nice or we won't let you into Europe.

Mihailovich was not convicted by an "allied" court.

Mihailovich was convicted by a Communist court.

That Communist court sought to execute anyone who could be an alternative to Tito. And that's why he was buried someplace where no one could find him (they feared his popular support even after dead)

This is really remedial, man.

Waste of time to even write it.

Mihailovich was not convicted by an "allied" court.

Mihailovich was convicted by a Communist court.

That Communist court sought to execute anyone who could be an alternative to Tito. And that's why he was buried someplace where no one could find him (they feared his popular support even after dead)

This is really remedial, man.

Waste of time to even write it.

Once again Vucic cannot focus on the issue at hand 'Srebrenica Genocide' but 'attempts' to avert attention elsewhere. Jasenovac has been plagued by years of Serb manipulation with outrageous figures who credible historians up in arms due to the constant lies. The Serbian government know very well that the numbers have been inflated. Where is the names list of the dead from Jasenovac. Show us the names !

So 700, 000 may be generous. (Ari Gold)

Looks like Ari failed elementary math. 80,000 people killed in Jasenovac. Serbs, Jews, Gypsies, Muslims and Croats too.

Serbs like to highlight their plight alongside that of the Jewish people. But they like to forget that they slaughtered all their Jews in the 1940s and proclaimed Beograd the first Jew-free city in Europe. Disgusting.

The fact that crimes were being done by Serbs in Bosnia was no secret.

It is not that they population of Serbia didn't know.

It was that they didn't want to know.

They chose to believe the anti-western propaganda rather than what the west was telling them.

Some still do.

"Vucic also said that today "90 percent of Serbs for the first time recognize that some of their compatriots committed terrible crimes during the wars of the 1990s."
Oh, how surprising. And still, a lot of Serb nationalists consider those murderers and butchers who committed genocide as 'heroes' or 'defenders'. It's somehow absurd, nationalists and patriots should care for their country. But they admire people whose actions and the consequences of the actions are directly responsible for 100.000s of Serbs being expelled.

Serbs still like to live with the (correct, in general) idea that 'all sides committed crimes, but a simple check of the numbers of people killed in the YU wars, grouped by ethnicity, shows who the main culprit was.

P.S: Maybe one day even Nicolic realizes that 'some of his compatriots' were involved in actions of genocide and dares to mention it?

Well, as an ardent nationalist and Information Minister in the 90s, you can bet that Vucic helped make sure that Serbs were kept in the dark about what their nation were up to in Croatia, BiH, Kosovo and, to a lesser extent, Vojvodina, Slovenia, Sandzak and Montenegro (yes, even in Sandzak and Montenegro, for those too young to recall the crimes against Muslims there). So when he mentions that 90% of Serbs are only now becoming aware of the crimes that Serbs committed, he should add that he was part of the problem of Serb denial over the past 2+ decades. He should also remind everyone that he and Nikolic were for many years staunch supporters of one of the key political figures - Seselj - accused of stoking the flames of nationalism - and even of directing paramilitary war crimes in numerous parts of ex Yu.

Why do people come here and pretend to be Jews, "moderate Serbs" or anything else other than what they really are? Do you think that makes your point any more valid that way? The facts on the ground are clear, Serbs were the only nation in that part of Europe that formed not one, but two anti-fascist fronts. To entertain Serbophobic lies for one minute, when did Serbs have even time to kill Jews? When Belgrade was being bombed by the Nazis? When the NDH killed over a million Serbs throughout 20-some concentration camps? When the Germans killed 8000 people at Kragujevac? When?

You're telling me in the midst of all that, the Serbs who were the biggest target of the Nazis in the Balkans just woke up and decided to kill the very same people who were also being targeted by the Nazis?

And where is the proof? Yad Vashem, Simon Wiesenthal Center, American Holocaust Museum... tons of info on the Ustashe, SS Handzar & SS Skenderbeg from them. Nothing on these twisted fantasies you scumbags on here have about Serbia.

Serbs still like to live with the (correct, in general) idea that 'all sides committed crimes, but a simple check of the numbers of people killed in the YU wars, grouped by ethnicity, shows who the main culprit was.
(Comm. Parrisson, 28 July 2015 14:48)

Actually, even the anti-Serb ICTY confirmed that all sides committed crimes. In Bosnia, the ICTY said that 100, 000 people were killed- 66, 000 Bosnian Muslims, 33, 000 Serbs & 18, 000 Croats. That to me looks exactly like all sides committed crimes. For the Bosnian Muslims, not all of their victims were killed by Serbs. Croats fought for separation, and a anti-Sarajevo Muslim force led by Firket Abdic fought to remain part of Yugoslavia.

The only thing the ICTY declared was that genocide was committed in Srebrenica. Though I think that's bullshit, it's not the one-sided violence that your director at the NGO office in Belgrade tells you to recite.

Besides, the ICTY had acquitted Serbia of committing genocide in Croatia (though shamefully also acquitted Ante Gotovina and Croatia), so explain to me why is it untrue to say that all sides committed war crimes?

Go ahead, call get your director on the phone. I'll wait.

Looks like Ari failed elementary math. 80,000 people killed in Jasenovac. Serbs, Jews, Gypsies, Muslims and Croats too.

Serbs like to highlight their plight alongside that of the Jewish people. But they like to forget that they slaughtered all their Jews in the 1940s and proclaimed Beograd the first Jew-free city in Europe. Disgusting.
(Bob, 28 July 2015 16:58)

Sadly, 80, 000 doesn't even make up the non-Serbs who were slaughtered at Jasenovac you fascist genocide denier. You're right, Croats were killed there too. But they were killed for their political affiliations and their resistance to fascism. Serbs were killed systematically because they were Serbian.

Serbs slaughtered Jews in WWII? Creative mind you have there. When were Serbs doing this? When they resisted up the majority of not one, but two anti-fascist fronts in the Balkans? Oh you're talking about Belgrade? Well funny thing about that, there was this bombing that took place due to Serbia's resistance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Retribution_(1941), which resulted in the direct German military occupation of Serbia and Belgrade. So any Jew that was killed in Serbia was killed by a German, and Serbs died side by side with the Jews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kragujevac_massacre

Much different than in the NDH where Croats organized and carried out the most sadistic killings that made even their German allies cringe in disgust!

(Bam Bam, 28 July 2015 14:00) # Comment link

Can you name me one "credible historian" that disputes the fact that 700, 000 people were murdered at Jasenovac? I understand why it is in your interest as an Ustasha to try and minimize those numbers, all the while actually supporting the genocide itself, but the facts are there for all to see.

One problem however is the Ustasha cowards burned Jasenovac to the ground when it was obvious their fun was over. And plus forensics were not very advanced in the few years after WWII. The Armenians cannot give you the biography of every one of the 1.5 million who were murdered during the Armenian Genocide, but anyone with half a brain knows what happened there. Why? Because its all right there in the demographics.

I will leave you with this: Avro Manhattan, a Roman Catholic scholar wrote in his 1965 book, Vatican Imperialism in the 20th Century:

“The lessons we have learned from the emergence of the independent
State of Croatia, where the religious and political totalitarianism of Catholicism
was not only made to work, but put to death more than one million Serbian
Orthodox Christians, should never be forgotten.

So 700, 000 may be generous.

Serbian cival leaders continue to entertain Satan, bow before the Devil! When it all boils down, very simple to know and understand, Satans intent is total destruction of Christian Eastern Orthodoxy! The Devils dream, to totally erase the Christian Eastern Orthodox religion from the face of the earth! Serbian people to be kept isolated, demonized and most important not united, this way the Devil to maximize and inflict horrific terror and total destruction of Christian Eastern Orthodoxy in the Balkans. If it would only be that easy to do, but the Russian Empire stands so much in the way of the Devil's intent! Hitler's " Final Solutuion " program so successfull that even Serbian cival leaders belive it! Why all this socializing between Serbian cival leaders and Satan, is it not enough suffering Serbia endured from USA, England and Germany? Look at where we ordinary Serbian people stand at this point in time, Kosovo and Srpska Krajina gone, Astro Hungarian Empire looking at Vojvodina, Romania and Bulgaria eyeing Banat and Albania keeps pushing,expanding and planning for more Serbian territory to be stolen! So Serbian cival leaders continue to wheel and deal with Satan while they turn their backs to Salvation and Redemption! The current direction of Serbian cival leaders for sure the death of Serbia! Like my Mother and Father before me pray they not be alive to again see Serbia murdered I also the same!!!

This is not a suffering contest. It is the equivalent of going to court on a murder charge and arguing that since your neighbor's grandfather killed someone 80 years ago, you should be freed.
(Tomislav, 28 July 2015 22:47)
# Comment link
================
I see you have trouble with comprehension. Nobody is saying that because someone's grandfather got killed 80 years ago it absolves the person who kills someone today. What is being said is that if the west wants crimes committed in Srebrenica to be classified a genocide and they want Serbs to apologise for that and punish the guilty then they must also classify Jasenovac as genocide for it was a far worse crime.
Also why do you lump Partizans with Serbs? Sure, most Partizans were Serbs but first and foremost they were Communists and the other ethnic groups also participated in the Partizan movement. Maybe a Croatian or a Bosniak committed a terrible crime but all you want to do is chalk that up to Serbs too because a Partizan did it.
Try to look at things objectively and accurately.
I for one, have never disputed that Serbs committed crimes and have always said that all sides did, as most Serbs here so Vucic saying that 90% of Serbs are just now realizing this is wrong. How does he know that? Was a survey taken recently? We know about our crimes because our people have been charged and sent to Hague and yes some are not guilty but all we want is for the others to admit it too.

"Kosovo will not be a source of some greater instability, among other things, because Serbia has built good relations with Albania."

The only source of great instability has always been Serbia. As for the good relations you have built with Albania you will see in October. It is time to return you serbs the favor of what happened last October in Belgrade.

Vucic never sent that Memo to Ari Gold,Ratko,Peggy,Sj,Factman and other habitually ignorant Serb Diaspora.
(Azir, 28 July 2015 22:39)
================================
Stop spreading your BS here. I have never said that Serbs did not commit crimes. I have always said that all sides did but the others have to admit it and apologise to us too. So I challenge you to produce evidence here where I said that Serbs did not commit crimes. Either do it or stop lying. On the contrary it is your lot who has never admitted to one crime committed by Albanians, Croatians or Bosniaks.
So go ahead and show me where I said that Serbs didn't commit any crimes.

"Looks like Ari failed elementary math. 80,000 people killed in Jasenovac. Serbs, Jews, Gypsies, Muslims and Croats too."

Bob

Yes, serbs, jews, gypsies, muslims and croats too but how come you fail to acknowledge that the same thing happened in Bosnia? Bosnia was more then just Srebrenica, no? The reason croats, muslims and albanians want to keep the serbs feel bad for what they have done, and minimize what they themselves are responsible for, is to justify what happened i Jasenovac, the ethnic cleansing of 250.000 serbs from Croatia and the 200.000 from Kosovo as well as the dismantlement of RS. I don't care what Vucic or some other serbs say. I know we can never be at peace with someone who wants our land and deep down inside wants the destruction of our people. I hope with all my heart there will never be real peace in the balkans. I pray that we will one day be able to settle the score with some of our "neighbors" without American involvement. I hope we will be able to send you all back to hell.

The only source of great instability has always been Serbia. As for the good relations you have built with Albania you will see in October. It is time to return you serbs the favor of what happened last October in Belgrade.
(Mark, 28 July 2015 17:49)

Mark,
I agree fully with you, Serbia has been and continues to be a source of great instability in the Balkans. However, being an Albanian I'm sure you know very well that we Albanians always treat our guests with utmost respect. Albania's fans will NOT treat the Serbian futbol team poorly in Elbasan, as they were barbarically treated in Belgrade. Not that it would happen as it did in Belgrade but, we would protect the Serbian players with our lives, if need be. We will show the Serbs and the World who we really are and will make our nation proud. We will not behave as the Serbian fans did and disgrace their nation as they did in Belgrade last October.

Serbia attacked Slovenia.

Serbia attacked Croatia.

Serbia attacked Bosnia.

Serbia attacked Kosova.

Vucic confesses Serbs instigated,attacked and Operated a Criminal Enterprise.

Jasenovic is never an excuse for 1990's GREATER SERBIA Campaign of Genocide,Crimes against Humanity and War Crimes against Brotherhood and Unity former Yugoslav Citizens.

Azir - You are a coward and a fraud. You made unsubstantiated claims that SerbNet paid millions of dollars to Gen. Lewis McKenzie to spread Serb proaganda. When I asked you to provide credible sources to to statements you ran away like the coward that you are. YOU COULDN'T PROVIDE ANY SOURCES TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS! What a surprise.

You have no credibility at all. It's ironic that you accuse Serbs of propaganda when you spread propaganda with each and every stroke of your keyboard. Come back with some credible and verifiable sources to your many ridiculous claims. Until then, you are just another anonymous coward.

Run along now, the Serbian owned restaurant that you work at needs the floors swept.

Jasenovac !.

To Bam Bam and other deniers.

In a church-book from 1932 which I have read,
there where 1.500.000 Ortodoxes(Serbs) registerd in Croatia,
1/3rd of Croatias Population of 4 1/2 Millions.

When the Civil war started in Yugoslavia in the 90ies,
Croatia had still only 4 1/2 Million inhabitants and only 600.000 Serbs(Ortodoxes)?

How many was those 600.000 Serbs(Ortodoxes in 1945 ?

400-450.000 ?

More than 1.000.000 Serbs(Ortodoxes) are missing.

Where are those more than 1.000.000 Serbians(Ortodoxes)today ?

How man had they been Today ? 1.400.000 ?.

So - the answer regarding Jasenovac and the Croatian genocide on the Serbians is whery obvious !

Arn.Sweden.

This is all happening because the EU will soon be requiring Serbia to take in Muslim immgrants/refugees and they need the Serbian populace to be "open and tolerant" throughout these early stages of the diversity agenda, as what has happened in the West for years.

The first step, is of course to get the Serbs to feel guilty about how they "treated the muslims" during these times, they'll be expected to open their arms to these foreign aliens and sacrifice themselves in order to prove "they're sorry" and not "evil maniacs" as the news and history tries to portray them.

This process happened already in England, Germany and France (in each of these capitals ethnic Europeans are a minority), I surely hope the Serbs look at this and put a stop to it before it's too late.

We support you Serbia - Stand UP - Love from America

(Ari Gold, 28 July 2015 20:30)

My mistake, I posted the wrong "Operation Retribution", Here is the correct link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Retribution_(1941)

Serbs slaughtered Jews in WWII? Creative mind you have there. When were Serbs doing this? When they resisted up the majority of not one, but two anti-fascist fronts in the Balkans? Oh you're talking about Belgrade? Well funny thing about that, there was this bombing that took place due to Serbia's resistance [link](1941), which resulted in the direct German military occupation of Serbia and Belgrade. So any Jew that was killed in Serbia was killed by a German, and Serbs died side by side with the Jews.
(Ari Gold, 28 July 2015 20:30)

Mr. Gold,
I hope you are not Jewish of the self-hating kind. It appears your beliefs concerning the connection between Jews and Serbs have been influenced by Serbian propaganda. There has never been any love or empathy toward Jews from Serbs. My family was from Yugoslavia and I remember many of their sad stories of Serbs hunting down Jews during WW II. I sincerely hope that before you die you will learn the truth of how inhumanely the Serbs treated the Jews.

Bob, you need to check your facts.

The Nazi SS (and not the Serbs) eliminated the Jews of Belgrade after they bombed Belgrade into submission and conquered the country. That bombing killed 20,000 Serbs in only 3 days as punishment for defying Hitler. The Nazi's were in charge. So what you say is kind of backwards.

Slso, the Serbs/ Montenegrins and the Greeks were the only Balkan countries on the side of the Allies. The Bosnians and Croatians, and Albanians, And Romanians, and Bulgarians, were not. So the case you are making is really strange.

Also, the American Museum of the Holocaust places the number of Serbs killed by Ustasha at 330,000 (and says more research needs to be done).

You should check the facts. You may wish to begin with what Nazi generals themselves had to say about Jasenovac. Next go to the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust. Then check out the American Museum of the Holocaust. Then check out the Simin Wisenthal Institute. Yad Vashem would be good too. May pbe then you can quote Franjo Tudjman!

Peggy you pathetic dillusional Chetnik supporter...

If one was to follow your Serb demented thinking then JEWS would have to also "admit" to their crimes against " innocent Nazis"?

Have you noticed Serbs attacked 4 non-Serb ethnicities in former Yugoslavia?

Serbs account for over 90 % of all atrocities but you continue to EQUATE this with the 10% which was allegedly done by the 4 victims of Greater Serbia.....

Confess is great for the soul.

2.5% Can never be 90%

Peggy you have a conscience....no?

The Hague is proof of how many "innocent Serbs " that truly exists.

(Yiddish mama, 30 July 2015 00:58)

I am not factman, I don't see how it would give my arguments any more legitimacy if I were to pose under different names. If we are talking about evidence, can't you please show me the evidence that says Serbs committed genocide against Jews in WWII. You say it's there, I can't find it. Please present it.

I mean I'd like to see where Serbs massacred Jews at all. I've given you examples of Operation Retribution, Kragujevac Massacre, Novi Sad Logor, Jasenovac, Stara Gradiska. These are historical facts. So where are yours?

I don't think Serbs have any issues knowing that crimes were committed, I think we have always know that it is part of war. But it seem like it's the other way around, the US, UK, NATO, Germany, Croatians, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians have always had problems admitting their crimes.

Western propaganda at the time purposely overestimated deaths, rape victims and so on. When there were thousands of deaths on all sides, they would claim hundreds of thousands on one side. So why should Serbs take anything they were saying seriously? Even today, we can see selective justice so again, they cannot be considered impartial.

Anyway, as we can see, their temporary creations have become great failures just like their propaganda. Check this BBC article -> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33686505

Quote -> Since Bosnia-Herzegovina, Macedonia and Serbia were declared "safe" in December, the rise in asylum seekers from those countries was only 23%, Germany's Federal Office for Migration and Refugees (BAMF) said.
However, the numbers from Albania, "Kosovo" and Montenegro had soared by 515%, the BAMF said.

Hungary is also struggling with a surge in Balkan migrants - many of them Roma (Gypsies) fleeing grinding poverty in Kosovo.

Once again, "everybody knows" Serbs committed "horrible crimes" in the breakup of the SFRY. And we know it wasn't genocide.

But why do we never hear what those crimes were? What were the crimes? We do know they were war crimes and not crimes against humanity as we saw in Nuremberg after WWII.

So what were the war crimes and what did the Serbs do to make them crimes of war? If it really was so horrible and hard to miss, we would have the actual events more fixed in our minds as a public matter, especially with people like Vucic constantly wringing their hands in public about it.

My family was from Yugoslavia and I remember many of their sad stories of Serbs hunting down Jews during WW II. I sincerely hope that before you die you will learn the truth of how inhumanely the Serbs treated the Jews.

(Yiddish mama, 29 July 2015 04:01)

Don’t forget that those were Serbs and Russians who made it possible that you and your Ashkenazi children were ever born.

The serbian PM errs !-

I Quote HIM -

"Serbs understand that people in Bosnia suffered unspeakably," Vucic said in an interview with Sueddeutsche Zeitung, which he gave during his working visit to Bavaria on Monday".

Comment -

All peoples suffer in War on bouth sides,
espessialy in a civil War.

On the other hand,
the Serbians did not begin this civil war and did not want it either.

Arn.Sweden.

Vucic never sent that Memo to Ari Gold,Ratko,Peggy,Sj,Factman and other habitually ignorant Serb Diaspora.

I am the earlier Bob in these postings. I don't agree at all with the other Bob's post.

Please B92, introduce name registration so we don't get conflicting names in these blogs.
(Bob, 28 July
============================
You might need to add something to your name then like Bob the first or similar. Introducing registration might not be the way B92 wants to go especially when this can be easily sorted out. I have had people impersonating me here at times which is not good but seeing how I am the only Peggy here it's easy to pick out the imposter. Everyone knows my views by now and wouldn't fall for the trick. Seeing how there is at least three Bobs you will need to add something to your name to separate yourself from the others.

If you need proof of this consider that Jasenovac was operational for 4 years, while 8,000 people were killed in Srebrenica in just 2 days! What do you think the Bosnian Serbs would have done if they had more time and power?
(Tomislav, 30 July 2015 00:36)
=====================
The Serbs did have more time and power. Are you forgetting that Serbs had Sarajevo under siege for a long time so why didn't they just go on the killing spree there?
Serbs had other areas under their control for years as well but hey, no genocide. That was lasted years and Serbs had opportunities to commit genocide in their areas of control if they were that way inclined.
Yes, I would love nothing better than for all sides to get together and own up to their crimes. I am not worried about Serbs being blamed for some crimes because I acknowledge that they did take place. In any war there is always going to be a certain element ready to do evil on all sides. Serbs have admitted to crimes and that's on record but Croatians and Muslims haven't. So please go and try to convince them to do it. You are preaching to the choir here.
The reason we keep going back to Jasenovac is because Serbs have never received justice for that, not even an apology and it was in recent history. Some people are still alive today. Jasenovac was part of a reason why Serbs were so spooked when Croatia went back to their Nazi ways and seceded.

"you fascist genocide denier" (Ari)

Really, Ari? You're the only one denying genocide. The one at Srebrenica and other Muslim "safe zones" during the war.

As for the allusion to fascism, look in the mirror.

So many ridiculous and offensive things from this article - If the ppl of Serbia are not aware of all the genocides and war crimes committed in their name, by their leaders, then maybe they should stop limiting their news intake to the Chetnik home press.

But the most offensive point, which Serbia is so desperate to push, is the fake "close connections" between reactionary Serbia and the Jews. Can you imagine, just yesterday we read thAT Vukic and co are intent on so-called rehabilitating Nedic, the great Serb Nazi collaborator, whose govt in conjunction with the home grown fascists helped Germany to make Serbia Judenfrei (Remember the Holocaust??). WW2 Nazi collaborators are the Chetnik heroes, but we Jews have close ties with these Chetniks?!

We are not together with these perpetrators and selective deniers of genocide, then or now. Vuukic can go BLEEP himself.

The Serbian Judicial 'Piggery' are in the process of rehabilitating Serbian fascist leader Milan Nedic. The man with Serbian citizen support organised a 'Juden Frei' Beograd. By the end of the war 90% of Jews in Serbia were wiped out. What is it with Vucic and the Serb government in supporting war criminals like Seselj, Draza and now Nedic......Serbs pretend to be so righteous but ask anyone in the western world what Serbia represents and they will all say ' the killers of BiH' fascism once again is on the rise in Serbia and Instead of denouncing the actions of the Government Peggy is embracing it with open arms.

How can he say Serbs won't accept indepedent Kosovo? Serbs do accept independent Kosovo. B92/ipsos poll is clear, 63% say Kosovo is independent. Al the Serbian athletes competed against Kosovo in euro games 2015. There is a Serb ambassador. Serbs are border guards and customs agents. Serb parliament is unanimously pro eu! No radicals and no dveri and No dss, they put Kosovo in the constitution and are no longer in parliament! Serbia wants Kosovo out of its constitution! Vucic was talking about a referendum a few months ago!

@ Ari Gold Senior Hypocrite:

When Greater Serbia illegaly evicted one million Kosovar civilians infamous Serb propaganda claimed Kosovars were supposedly conducting complicated delicate organ snatching of Serb aggressors.

And yet to this day not one identified "Serb victims exist".

The Serbian Judicial 'Piggery' are in the process of rehabilitating Serbian fascist leader Milan Nedic. The man with Serbian citizen support organised a 'Juden Frei' Beograd. By the end of the war 90% of Jews in Serbia were wiped out. What is it with Vucic and the Serb government in supporting war criminals like Seselj, Draza and now Nedic......Serbs pretend to be so righteous but ask anyone in the western world what Serbia represents and they will all say....


How would you know Ustasha? Milan Nedic took over the National Front of Serbia just like in similar fashion to the Vichy government in France, to save Serbia from letting the Ustasha, Bulgaria and Hungarian Nazi's to commit more Genocide in Serbia proper. Milan Nedic Saved Serbs and Jews from the Croatian Ustasha and Nazi's. Unfortunately, the Communists killed him without trial. General Milan Nedic was a highly decorated soldier fighting in both Balkan Wars and World War I where 25% of the population died to free the south Yugoslav people from Austro-Hungary and that includes Croatia.

Tomislav,

I am now calling you out for deceit.

Fact: Serbs fought on the side of the Allies. Everyone else in the Balkans except Greeks fought for Nazis

Fact: Oh wait, was that the Royal Yugo generals who tore up Hitler's contract and defied him?

Fact: Belgrade was bombed into oblivion and 20,000 civilians died in 3 days. Who was a Nazi? check and see if their cities were devastated

Fact: To this day Jews and many other minorities live in BG, while all other capitals are homogenous. Serbia (is the most ethnically diverse in the Balkans)

Fact: Oh, was that up to 3300k Serbs who were killed in Jasenovac according to the American Museum of the Holocaust? Or the up to 600k that the Jewish written Encylopedia of the Holocaust says?

Fact: Oh, wait, was that Chetnik Commander Draza Mihailovich who was given the Congressional Medal of Honor by Pres. Harry Truman under recommendation of Gen. Dwight Eisenhower Supreme Commander of Allied Forces

Fact: Oh wait, was that Chetnik Commander Draza Mihailovich who was offered to be airlifted out of Serbia by the US when Serbia fell to the communists

Fact: Oh wait, was that Chetnik Commander Pavle Djurasic who lived in America his whole life protected by the US from attempts to deport him (while people like Artukovic were sent back for their crimes)?

Fact: Jews love Serbs. And they dislike all of you, because you are all revisionists.

Go back to school to re-learn the fine art of deceit. You suck at it.

Tomislav:

1. Read further down the page from that website: Parag 7: "The Croat authorities murdered between 320,000 and 340,000 ethnic Serb residents of Croatia and Bosnia during the period of Ustaša rule. It would appear that my facts are correct... and your's are wrong.

2. Jasenovac was actually a complex of five major and three smaller "special" camps spread out over 240 square kilometers. What about Stara Gradiska? Donja Gradinja? Ustica?

3. I did not say 700k, but 600k and I quoted the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust for that (look it up to see that it is an accurate figure quoted). Please make sure you get your facts right.

4. The Partisans represented Serbs, Croats, and Bosniaks. Not just Serbs. If they were the majority it is only because Serbs were the majority throughout Yugoslavia. Furthermore, please do not associate Tito with my commentary.

5. Vukovar was destroyed because it was war and Croat military units stayed to the last man. Regarding those executed in the hospital, yes it was cowardly. But please don't say they were all old and feeble because you know that was not true. They ethnically cleansed that town of all Serbs (like they did the entire country).

6. No one fights wars out of morality. Everyone fights war out of self interest.

7. The fact remains you were on the wrong side of the war and only the Greeks and Serbs were on the right side. All your other comments are speculation about what might have been.

"90% of Serbs realized for first time crimes were committed"

The typical excuse for self protection. After WW2, many Germans claimed they didn't know anything about killing Jews.

From Tomislav: "Many Serbian commentators try to twist WWII history by attaching themselves to the suffering of the Jews because both group were the target of fascist war crimes."

Would you accuse Efraim Zuroff, head of the Simon Wiesenthal Center and renowned Nazi hunter, of twisting WWII history for stating that Serbs and Jews suffered genocide during WWII at the hands of the Nazis and Croatian Ustasha? Please comment Tomislav.

More from Tomislav: "The reality is that prior to receiving backing from the Allies, the Serbs were all too happy to extend a welcome to Hitler... In fact, Belgrade was the first city in Europe to proudly declare itself "Jew-free".

This is a popular tactic employed by Croats when they cannot defend their ugly WWII history. The Serbs staged a military coup and decided to fight the Nazis against insurmountable odds. As a result of Serb defiance, Hitler bombed Belgrade unmercilessly. Germany then occupied Belgrade while the Serbs formed the 1st resistance (Chetniks) in Europe to fight the Nazis. Conversely, Croats welcomed Hitler into Zagreb with a parade with no resistance. Your attempt to equate the two is shameful.

You are a Croat revisionist trying to rewrite the ugly history of your countrymen. Tell us why anyone should believe your 'twisted' version of WWII history as opposed to Efraim Zuroff who has spent his entire adult life researching WWII and hunting Nazi criminals. Sorry Tomo, the smart money is on Zuroff. You'e a clown.

Hi j,

You are funny.

You guys all need to go back to school. Learn the facts!

Here is one source: Time Magazine (reporting live from the war)

http://kingdom-of-yugoslavia-in-ww2.com/america-in-ww2-yugoslavia/005-cetnici-na-naslovnoj-strani-njuzvika-3/

"Hitler had hardly turned his back on Yugoslavia when the country erupted in a spontaneous revolt... THE CHETNIKS WERE THE FIRST - and for a short while ONLY - ORGANIZED GUERRILLA FORCE TO TAKE FIELD."

"Ever since Adolf Hitler vaingloriously announced a year ago that he had conquered Yugoslavia, Draja Mihailovic and his 150,000 guerrillas in the mountains south-west of Belgrade have flung the lie in Hitler's teeth. IT HAS BEEN PROBABLY THE GREATEST GUERRILLA OPERATION IN HISTORY... (A long list of achievements follows...)"

"(Mihailovic) has already become the great symbol of the unknown thousands of supposedly conquered Europeans who still resist Adolf Hitler..."

The Chetniks were the first. May 18, 1941

There are many other sources online.

Learn the facts!

I am the earlier Bob in these postings. I don't agree at all with the other Bob's post.

Please B92, introduce name registration so we don't get conflicting names in these blogs.

Ari please entertain us with your lies....
When did Kosovars have time to perform these organ snatching operations using Serbs ?...

When Serbs we're conducting Operation HorseShoe?

When Serbs raped over 10,000 Kosovar women?

When your cowards soldiers murdered infants,children,elderly,pregnant women and young men?

Serbia's Human Rights Kandic could educate you Ari.

'Bob', an open genocide denier. What a surprise.

When is he having tea with David Irving next?

I don't think Serbs have any issues knowing that crimes were committed, I think we have always know that it is part of war. But it seem like it's the other way around, the US, UK, NATO, Germany, Croatians, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians have always had problems admitting their crimes.

-- Actually this is not true. The only problem Albanians have is with the burning desire Serbs have to equalize the scale and gravity of the crimes committed by Serbs with those of the Albanians. Things were not equal at all. There were no trucks with Serbian bodies thrown in rivers. There were no bodies burried in mass graves, dug out, burned, burried in new mass graves in Serbia, buildings built on top of the mass graves, refusal to digg these graves out for years and identify the bodies, and seeking of funds and favors from the West to get the remains out. This was done only by the Serbs, and Serbia. There is no equivalent to this done by Albanians in Kosova. So crimes were not equal. That is the issue we have. Your desire to minimize the scale and gravity of the crimes commited by Serbs by creating a false equivalency. Truth matters. Did Albanians commit crimes? Sure. Were they of the same scale and severity? Not even close.This is the issue we have with the Serb government. It is not enough to acknowledge crimes, even though they do that for Bosnia, less so for Kosova, but it is also important to acknowledge the scale and severity of such crimes when compared to those of your neighbors.

Ari Gold

“Serbs were the only nation in that part of Europe that formed not one, but two anti-fascist fronts”

Serbian/Montenegrins made 60-70% of all the partisans of central, eastern and southern Europe including Greece, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Albanians everywhere, Poland, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakians. In Poland they had 380 000 partisans of Armia Kraiova that sat with their wives and only 30 000 really good partisans of Armia Ljudowa. What is important S/M partisans started their war in spring of 1941 while the rest mostly in 1944 when the Victory was only a matter of time. Yes there was some episodic resistance everywhere but only Brits, S/M and the USSR launched uncompromised national war. In 1943-44 Soviet partisans were sent to boost the movement in Poland, Czechoslovakia and Bulgaria. Strong though split was the Greek movement. Yet combat losses of the S/M partisans (300 000) exceeded total losses of all the partisans in eastern Europe and Balkans. Even the 20 000 Albanians were 20-30 times less than the two Great S/M armies. Serbs wrote their history with their own blood unlike other postwar HOW I WON THE WAR STORIES written with ink.

P.S. By the way today is a black day for those who think that WW2 was just an episode in the Holocaust tragedy. Because today the Russian government finally revealed all the documents concerning Oswentsym including the German ones. Many will be happy to learn that the tragedy was not that big.

Ari Gold aka factman,
Try as you might to minimize all the war crimes committed by Serbs during the Balkan wars of 1912-1914, WW II, and the wars in former Yugoslavia during the 1990's, there is much too much documentation and evidence available to prevent you from denying the many organized genocides committed in the name of Serbia. Many reputable unbiased historians have written extensively on Serbia's horrific atrocities. Ari/factman, I get much satisfaction you will never be able to suppress or destroy any of the existing evidence because of modern technology's ability to store secured information. Nevertheless, I invite you, MikeC and other despicable chetniks to have a go of it.

Yiddish Mama:

I am not Ari Gold

I am factman

You can broadcast it all across the world, but it still doesn't make it true: Jews know who Serbs are, and were

PS: It is fairly evident that you are neither Yidddish, nor a Mama

Dumb comment #1 from Bam Bam: "Draza may have saved a few dumb 'Yanks' from the war / so what..."

Now you have managed to insult American servicemen and their memories with yet another of your irresponsible comments. It shouldn't surprise anyone on this forum that you would call US servicemen 'dumb Yanks' in view of the fact that you have openly supported the barbaric acts of the Croatian Nazi Ustasha many times on this board. This is a regime that declared war on the US and to this day have never rescinded that declaration of war. Nice company you keep Bam Bam.

Dumb comment #2: "If Draza was such a saint as Serbs think why hasn't Obama come out in support of this claim.... !"

What claim are you talking about? President Truman awarded Mihailovich the Legion of Merit which is the highest military award a non-American can receive from the US gov't. What does Obama have to do with WWII Yugoslavia? You are a moron! I've never heard Obama come out in support of Davey Crockett for his role at the Alamo, so does that mean he wasn't an American hero? Your comments are irrelevant and idiotic, as usual. Your shameful attempt to rewrite history and equate Serb activity during WWII to that of your Nazi-following countrymen is truly appalling.

Here is a history lesson for everyone.

The Chetniks that formed after the Nazi occupation (the first such resistance movement in Europe) were comprised of Yugoslav Royalist forces. As such they were disciplined and trained. They did not commit atrocities. Of course, there are exceptions to this and there are renegade personalities, and also war has a way of brininging out the worst in people. But for the most part, not.

However, This movement became very popular and over time, other areas in Serbia, Bosnia, etc, began to form units called "Chetniks." For the most part (but not entirely) most of these were ad hoc formations. Sime were sanctioned with the support and blessing of Mihailovich, but so many were simply people who took up arms, called themselves "Chetniks" and did what they wanted without overview of senior officers of the discipline that comes with being a military person. Mihailovich had nothing to so with this nor would his. guerilla fighters even have an infrastructure to police these so called "Chetniks"

Regarding Obama, what the heck does Obama hav to do with Mihailovich? presid nt Harry Truman gave him the medl by recommendation of future President Eisenhower.

You can minimize why Mijaiilovich received the highest honor that a foreign national can ever receive, but that would be silly. He rescued 500 US airman trapped under enemy fire of the Nazis. This alone shows taht Mihailovich was neither fascist nor Nazi.

God Bless Draza!

More from Tomo: "When you mentioned Serbs in Western countries, the first thoughts that pop to mind are criminals, assassins and mass murderers."

I travel quite a bit, and I have never found this to be true. Yet when Croatia is mentioned, most people know nothing about the country. The ones that do, however, immediately bring up Croatia's Nazi alliance during WWII. It's obvious why Croats like yourself attempt to avoid any mention of WWII. Sad. This is a fact you cannot argue.

Tomo says: "I guess you need to have something to keep you going when your GDP per capita is less than that of Iraq -sad."

Intersesting statement in view of the fact that Croatia has experiencesd a decline in GDP for 6 straight years while Serbia's has grown in 12 of the past 15 years.

And let's not forget the billions of dollars that the west and EU has poured into Croatia and your ship is still sinking.

Serbia on the other hand, has shown consistent growth despite its infrastructure being decimated by NATO bombs, economic sanctions and housing more displaced people than any other country in the Balkans.

Foreign investment continues to grow in Serbia while it is virtually nonexistent in Croatia. Now with a rabid nationalist like Kitarovic as President, Croatia will sink deeper into the abyss. BTW, what is her economic platform? Oh, that's right, she doesn't have one. She was elected on her anti-Serb platform. That will get you far in today's world. LOL

Croatian, Serbian and Bosnian academics need to get together to write a comprehensive history of WWII that all sides can agree on or there will never be reconciliation. Some of the statistics I hear Serbs quote are absurd and from unreliable and biased, especially anti-Catholic, sources. The Croatians need to acknowledge the crimes committed by the Ustashe, but in order to do this we need the real facts. The Serbs also need to acknowledge the crimes committed against civilians by Partisans and Chetniks. It is atrocious that Tito is still being honored in Serbia and even among naive and uninformed Croatians. Moreover, just because the Ustashe had more powerful backers early on in the war does not mean the Chetniks and Partisans have the moral high ground. If the Chetniks had the ability, they would have slaughtered just as many civilians as the Ustase if not more. We saw the extent of Partisan crimes once they gained power. There were clearly people on all sides that had no problem killing innocent men, woman and children. I am not here to preach the issue, but I think the non-politicized truth needs to come out, and this can only be done through a a renewed substantial joint academic effort. I will say that any crimes committed in WWII did not justify the recent ethnic cleansing. This is not a suffering contest. It is the equivalent of going to court on a murder charge and arguing that since your neighbor's grandfather killed someone 80 years ago, you should be freed.

This is all happening because the EU will soon be requiring Serbia to take in Muslim immgrants/refugees and they need the Serbian populace to be "open and tolerant" throughout these early stages of the diversity agenda, as what has happened in the West for years.

The first step, is of course to get the Serbs to feel guilty about how they "treated the muslims" during these times, they'll be expected to open their arms to these foreign aliens and sacrifice themselves in order to prove "they're sorry" and not "evil maniacs" as the news and history tries to portray them.

This process happened already in England, Germany and France (in each of these capitals ethnic Europeans are a minority), I surely hope the Serbs look at this and put a stop to it before it's too late.

We support you Serbia - Stand UP - Love from America
(David, 28 July 2015 20:32)


Just to add to my previous comment earlier today, it should be made clear that this isn't about taking blame of some all of a sudden change in conscious. The Serbs did what they had to do.

This is about the direction Europe is heading, not about Balkan affairs by a long shot.

Is Vucic joking or just trying to say Serbs are slow?!

, the ethnic cleansing of 250.000 serbs from Croatia and the 200.000 from Kosovo as well as the dismantlement of RS.

Mike C - this is not possible in Kosovo to have lost 200K Serbs to have been kicked out.

There are 150K Serbs living in Kosovo today if you take 40K Serbs police and military many left no issue about it but more like 50K Serbs which have it better in Serbia as they sld proprty in Kosovo go see in BG many cars with Kosovo plates pay no insurance etc.

@Peggy

You criticize Vucic for making assumptions yet your comments are riddled with assumptions of your own. Jasenovac and Srebrenica are unrelated as your own comment suggests. Every time Serbian war crimes from the 1990s are discussed, however, many Serbian commentators attempt to turn the conversation to WWII. Why go back to WWII only? Why not go back even further to the formation of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, or better yet, Roman times? The history on Jesenovac is all over the place from the tens of thousands killed to over 700,000, which includes Croatian and Bosnian victims. This is a problem and shows me that politics are at issue. Like I said, the right thing to do is get the truth out with a joint and honest study. If the truth is damning to Croatians, so be it. If it is damning to Serbs, so be it as well. The current back and forth is just deepening animosity. Also, I want to reiterate that we should not confuse lack of power with morality. There is no question in my mind that the people that committed crimes in Srebrenica would have killed many more people if they had the opportunity. The Ustashe had Hitler's backing and were able to do more damage largely for that reason. If you need proof of this consider that Jasenovac was operational for 4 years, while 8,000 people were killed in Srebrenica in just 2 days! What do you think the Bosnian Serbs would have done if they had more time and power?

Can Vučić please become my country's prime minister?

@Peggy
If you do not consider the siege of Sarajevo a war crime and part of a genocidal plan than our sense of morality is too different to continue this discussion. I don't want to be rude, but either you are purposely twisting the facts or are thoroughly ignorant of them. The Serbs in the 1990s did NOT have the power the Ustashe had in the sense that they UN, NATO and international community were watching them. In fact, NATO finally bombed Serbs positions after they got fed up with attacks on civilians. The threat of foreign military action was always looming over the Serbs heads and they knew it, which is why on one occasion they even tied UN Peacekeepers to poles at their military positions. So please don't try to argue that Serbia could have committed a full scale genocide in Sarajevo as if Yugoslavia existed in a bubble. Serbs couldn't commit wholesale murder so instead their snipers picked off innocent women and children one by one, shelled the city indiscriminately, and bombed bread lines. Again, if Jasenovac and the 1990s are unrelated, then deal with them in that fashion. The issue at hand is not Jasenovac. Whether you think so or not, bringing up Jasenovac in relation to the events of 1990s is an attempt to defend the recent genocidal actions of Serbs or at minimum detract from their severity. Conversely, if you claim the two events are related then you are implicitly admitting that the Serbian actions in the 1990s were revenge for WWII. Which is it?

@Yiddish Mama
I am happy that you brought up this issue. Many Serbian commentators try to twist WWII history by attaching themselves to the suffering of the Jews because both group were the target of fascist war crimes. The reality is that prior to receiving backing from the Allies, the Serbs were all too happy to extend a welcome to Hitler. In fact, Belgrade was the first city in Europe to proudly declare itself "Jew-free" to the pleasure of its fuhrer. What changed? Did the Serbian nation in a few months suddenly find a new sense of morality, or was it what the Allies just had more to offer? The fact of the matter is that Yugoslavia was a power game at the time. The leaders of the Ustashe, Chetniks and Partisans did not form these group and fight for moral principles. They either had something to gain in terms of nationalistic agenda or individually. Many of the ordinary soldiers were simply fought to fight against their will. Pavelic was an evil man, but Tito was not a moral man simply for helping to defeat Pavelic and taking power for himself. Tito was a bloodthirsty murderer in his own right, greedy and power-hungry. He did what he had to to consolidate power in Yugoslavia, not out of a sense of the "unity and brotherhood" farce. Today, whenever an issue of WWII history comes into question, many Serbs shamelessly attach themselves to the plight of the Jews at this time even though they were partly responsible for that plight. They need to be called out for this.

Pavle Djurasic & Draza where convicted by the allied courts of YU for treason and murder of the citizens of that country. Draza may have saved a few dumb 'Yanks' from the war / so what, does that mean because the Americans gave him a medal that he or his men never performed evil acts. When Hitler presented the Iron Cross to fellow soldiers were they all performing there duties as per the Geneva Convention. Pavle could never return to his place of birth because he knows very well that crimes committed by his forces were subject to war crimes of the worst kind. If Draza was such a saint as Serbs think why hasn't Obama come out in support of this claim.... !

Mihailovich was not convicted by an "allied" court.

Mihailovich was convicted by a Communist court.

That Communist court sought to execute anyone who could be an alternative to Tito. And that's why he was buried someplace where no one could find him (they feared his popular support even after dead)

This is really remedial, man.

Waste of time to even write it.

Mihailovich was not convicted by an "allied" court.

Mihailovich was convicted by a Communist court.

That Communist court sought to execute anyone who could be an alternative to Tito. And that's why he was buried someplace where no one could find him (they feared his popular support even after dead)

This is really remedial, man.

Waste of time to even write it.

From j: "The french, the poles, the chzechs and just about any country that was invaded by the Germans before Serbia had underground guerrilla movements."

Wrong again j. There are several reliable sources that verify that the Serbian Chetniks were the 1st resistance to the Nazis in WWII Europe. One in particular is Michael Lees, a British Intelligence Officer stationed in Yugoslavia during WWII. Read his book, The Rape of Serbia, then come back for a discussion.

Now, ask yourself, should the B92 readers believe what Michael Lees wrote after spending the WWII years in the theater of war, or you, an anonymous blogger with no credientials only known for his Serb bashing. Run along now, you have some reading to do.

Please j, you are clearly in over your head. Please list the accomplishments of the Polish resistance. As I have stated, several WWII historians name the Serb Chetniks as the 1st organized resistance movement to oppose Hitler. To be sure, Hitler invaded Poland in 1939, well before Yugoslavia. And some Polish groups opposed the Nazis, but did not organize themselves militarily as Cheniks did immediately after the Nazi occupation of Yugoslavia. The Chetniks kept seven German divisions occupied early after they took to the hills to oppose the Nazis and their allies which incuded your Albanian countrymen j.

I can make an arguement that the Chetniks existed before WWI (which they did) but that would just make your little head spin more than it already is.

From Tomislav: "Look at Serbia today. Look where your nationalism has gotten you. You have no idea how uninterested people outside of Serbia are in your nationalistic rantings."

Nationalistic rantings? Last time I checked none of your allies came to celebrate your Ustasha orgy on Aug. 4 & 5. Those you thought were your friends are distancing themselves from you because of your rabid nationalism.

What other place in the world celebrates the Nazi movement?

What other place in the world holds memorial services for convicted war criminals the way Croatia does annualy for Ante Pavelic in Zagreb?

What other country's soccer fans use the Nazi-Ustasha stiff-arm salute while chanting nationalist slogans?

What other country paints swastikas on their soccer field?

What other European country is more than 90% homogenous with its largest minority consisting of only 4% of the total population?

Answer these questions and then we'll have a discussion on nationalism. You are the worst kind of hypocrite.

More from Tomislav: "The world has moved on-you keep talking about the minor role you played in WWII and the Medieval battle you lost at Kosovo."

A quick look at Croat military history and it's no surprise that this upsets Croats like yourself. Croats were A-H vassals for 900 years; Croats fought on the losing side with Germany in WWI then begged the Serbs to take them into Yugoslavia; Croats aligned themselves with the worst killing-machine in modern history, the Nazis during WWII and lost; Croats needed NATO to fight their battles against Serbs in 1991-95.

With a military history like that Tomislav, I would never even the subject up. You're embarrassing your own people.

This is a positive step forward, but all sides to need to acknowledge crimes were committed by all factions in the wars. I think the Serb government is going along way for stability and peace.

And same time supports Dodik while saying this.

I know we (Serbs) can never be at peace with someone who wants our land and deep down inside wants the destruction of our people. I hope with all my heart there will never be real peace in the balkans. I pray that we will one day be able to settle the score with some of our "neighbors" without American involvement. I hope we will be able to send you all back to hell.
(MikeC, 28 July 2015 21:40) # Comment link

MikeC,
For someone who has never set foot in Serbia, hoping there will never be peace in the Balkans indicates you are still a child, intrigued with computer war games. Speak to anyone that had to live through the wars of the 1990's in the former Yugoslavia so you can have your eyes opened to the horrors of war. Now then, isn't it is way past your bedtime.

@Ari Gold
I just noticed your comments and they are beyond ridiculous. You lost all credibility when you quoted Avro Manhattan, which you claim is a Roman Catholic and a scholar. Avro Manhattan is neither a Catholic nor a scholar, but one of the most virulently anti-Catholic yellow journalists of his era. His agenda is and has always been to discredit the Catholic Church for which he has open contempt, so naturally he will attribute war crimes to not just the Church, but Catholic doctrine itself, which is absurd. His writings fall into the category of conspiracy theory rather than serious academic discussion. The fact that you even quote this joke of an author makes you lose all credibility and shows us you have no interest in learning the facts, but instead are pushing some of the most sensationalized anti-Catholic rhetoric in existence. Do you also believe the story that Pavelic had a jar of Serbian eyes on his desk? How about Santa Claus? Do you even look at the background of the sources you read and quote, or do you just consider how closely related they are to you own views? Please stop spreading your and others' lies here. There can be no reconciliation without truth, but it looks to me like you are more interested in keeping the war going.

Hey Factman:
You need to check your facts.
Fact: The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum PRESENTLY estimates that the Ustasha regime murdered between 77,000 and 99,000 people in Jasenovac in a FOUR YEAR period - not 300k and certainly not 700k. Look it up! That figure includes not just Serbs but other groups.
Fact: According to British Scholar Misha Glenny, approximately 80,000 CROATIANS, unarmed soldiers and civilians, were executed at Bleiburg in a FIVE DAY period in 1945 by Partisans (aka Serbs with a different hat).
Fact: Serbian nationalist barbarians executed over 8,000 Bosniaks at Srebrenica in TWO DAYS in 1995.
Fact: Serbs ruthlessly and unnecessarily destroyed Vukovar and executed dozens of feeble and elderly at Skabrnja.
Fact: Serbs created MILLIONS of refugees by way of their barbarism in the 1990s.
Fact: Serbs were en route to ethnically cleanse parts of Kosovo until the Americans spanked them in 1999.
Your Conclusion: Serbs have the moral high ground. No matter what crimes they committed in the 1990s or may commit in the future, let's ALWAYS bring the discussion back to Jasenovac.
As to the other commentators, I will reiterate that the Chetniks did not fight the Nazis out of a sense of morality. They did so out of nationalistic self interest. Again, weakness does not equal morality. If the Nazis offered them the greater Serbian they wanted, they would have jumped on the band wagon and committed crimes as numerous as the Ustashe if not greater.

From j: "Borrowing authority from your job title doesn't make anything anymore credible. It's just fluff on top of your Bull$hit. So writing a book doesn't mean $hit."

j - The source I gave you, Michael Lees, was not some academic who wrote a book based on research, he wrote based on his experiences during the war. He lived it. And he was not Serbian, thus he had no vested interest in not telling the truth.

Now, again I ask, should the B92 readers believe you, a known Serb-basher with zero creditials, or Michael Lees who wrote about his experiences during WWII.

If all of these other resistance movements existed before the Chetniks did, please tell us who they were, when they were organized and what they accomplished. WWII may be the most written about war in the history of the world. Surely you can find some reliable sources that back up your claims, can't you j? Until then, you're just another Serb-bashing Albanian with no credibility.

The Chetniks that formed after the Nazi occupation (the first such resistance movement in Europe) were comprised of Yugoslav Royalist forces.

-- Factman, what you have in parentheses is total bull$hit. Another feel good story for the Serbs to make themselves feel better; because of course we all know the Serbs are macho. The first resistance movement in Europe. Cut the crap. There were resistance movements everywhere in Europe. I forgot, you checked the Chetnics Facebook page and determined that they were the first to open a Facebook page of the kind in Europe at that time.

Lets clarify the "all parts committed crimes" discussion

— Final report of the United Nations Commission of Experts -
"All parties involved in the conflict have committed «grave breaches» of the Geneva Conventions and other violations of international humanitarian law. These violations include the killing of civilians, rape torture, and the deliberate destruction of civilian property, including cultural and religious property, such as churches and mosques. But, there are significant qualitative differences. Most of the violations were committed by Serbs against Bosnian Muslims.[7]"

@Factman Your writings demonstrate the fact that you are trying ever so hard so portray erudition,yet your arguments are logically flawed, don't address my points directly and show that you are so biased that you care more to defend Serb aggression than learn the truth. Since it's pointless arguing with an obvious nationalist that sees the massacre at the Vukovar hospital as a footnote, let me leave you with the following insight: Look at Serbia today. Look where your nationalism has gotten you. You have no idea how uninterested people outside of Serbia are in your nationalistic rantings. The world has moved on-you keep talking about the minor role you played in WWII and the Medieval battle you lost at Kosovo. The fact of the matter is Croatia is in the EU and NATO. When you mentioned Serbs in Western countries, the first thoughts that pop to mind are criminals, assassins and mass murderers. This is a fact you cannot argue. Even the movies often use a Serbian character as the murderous gangster-villain because that's simply what people understand you as. You were bombed by NATO for good reason. The world has spoken as to what it thinks about you when you lost Kosovo. You've been abandoned. You can keep wearing your silly little hats and waving your three fingers, but in the grand scheme of things it means nothing - absolutely nothing. Nobody cares. It's that simple. I guess you need to have something to keep you going when your GDP per capita is less than that of Iraq -sad.

@njegos. Why you mad? It's easy to grow your economy percentage-wise when its rubbish to start with. If you have 1 factory and you put up another 1, you've just grown your economy by 100%. Congratulations! The fact of the matter is that Serbia is still broke, desperate and decades behind Croatia. Your FDI is the result of cheap labor. Keep working for pennies and foreign companies will flood in; try to raise wages and off they go. You've traveled a bunch have you? Belgrade to Novi Sad doesn't count, buddy. I travel all over Europe for work regularly and I can confirm that people generally have a very negative view of Serbs. My Scandinavian colleagues tell me there's a lot of Serbs involved in organized crime there and generally do not interact with them. My Dutch colleagues tell me that anytime a criminal needs to put out a hit, they use Serbs. And why wouldn't they? Serbs have the most experience killing. Croatia does not glorify Nazism, far from it. It's your fans that regularly brand your silly little Chetnik hats at football matches - the uniform of losers. It's your country that worshiped a war criminal paramilitary leader and his rooted for his soccer club. It's your people that hold rallies for convinced war criminals in the tens of thousands even this year! It's your people that turned the murderer Milosevic into a demigod. The world has spoken on Serbia. And the numbers don't lie - your GDP per capita is below Iraq. Now be nice or we won't let you into Europe.

I am the earlier Bob in these postings. I don't agree at all with the other Bob's post.

Please B92, introduce name registration so we don't get conflicting names in these blogs.
(Bob, 28 July 2015 22:39)
Maybe a lesson can be taken from Macedonia and you could be recognized as (Formerly Bob of B92 Forums)or FBOB92F. Since it is an issue to you to retain the screen name BOB and distinguish yourself from other Bob's.

I am not Ari Gold

I am factman


I really do not get where everyone makes the claims that these two are the same person.
Their posts are not even close to being the same.

Factman, cut the crap. The french, the poles, the chzechs and just about any country that was invaded by the Germans before Serbia had underground guerrilla movements.

As always the Serbs like to think of themselves as some supreme beings, the first, the strongest, the bravest, machoest, the winners. The heavenly kingdoms. The winners of lost battles. Myths and fairy tales. As if the rest of Europe was sleeping. Of course the truth and reality is much different. Serbia like most of the Balkans is a small impoverished country of no significance in the global scale. That's why the world talks about D day and Norwegian heavy water saboteurs and not Serbia. Serbia is strong, first,bravest, heavenly, winner, only in the minds of deluded Serbs. Reality is and has always been much different. One cannot be strongest, bravest, first, heavenly, macho, winners, and be a victim at the same time. This is schizofrenic but Serbs claim to be both at the same time. Total, lethal damage and glorious winners against the NAZIS and the Turks yet the most persecuted and victimized. The whole narrative is totally bat$hit crazy.

Wrong again j. There are several reliable sources that verify that the Serbian Chetniks were the 1st resistance to the Nazis in WWII Europe. One in particular is Michael Lees, a British Intelligence Officer stationed in Yugoslavia during WWII. Read his book, The Rape of Serbia, then come back for a discussion.

Now, ask yourself, should the B92 readers believe what Michael Lees wrote after spending the WWII years in the theater of war, or you, an anonymous blogger with no credientials only known for his Serb bashing. Run along now, you have some reading to do.

-- I don't give a crap about bashing Serbs. It's of no interest to me. It's Bull$hit I can't stand. Sarah Palin wrote a book, and she was a Governor. Borrowing authority from your job title doesn't make anything anymore credible. It's just fluff on top of your Bull$hit. So writing a book doesn't mean $hit. Everything you and Factman claim defies logic and reality. You had a whole bunch of European countries invaded by Germany years before, yet Serbia is the first one to form resistance groups. One would have to have no brain cells to believe crap like this. Myths like this are are offensive to the peoples of Europe who died resisting the NAZIS because it flatly denies their existence and frankly in the effort to paint the Serbs as Gods you're painting the others, who actually resisted for years before the Germans made it into your backyards, as cowards. Reality was not like this. There were plenty of groups.

If all of these other resistance movements existed before the Chetniks did, please tell us who they were, when they were organized and what they accomplished. WWII may be the most written about war in the history of the world. Surely you can find some reliable sources that back up your claims, can't you j? Until then, you're just another Serb-bashing Albanian with no credibility.
(njegos, 5 August 2015 15:21)

--Sure. The Poles. Took less then 30 seconds.

Some armchair Serb patriot willing to believe in unicorns and heavenly kingdoms, has no say on defining who is what.

I'm struggling to believe this. Is Mr Vucic saying that the propaganda was so effective in the 1990s that only 10% of the population knew that atrocities had been committed? I find this very difficult to accept, Serbs are some of the savvy people I know and even if they didn't have all the details at their fingertips they must have strongly suspected that horrible things were going on (on whichever side).