Slovak FM convinced RS referendum won't be held

1. Amazing what lengths some will go to disallow a democratic expression. Colonialism. Colonialism. Colonialism.

2. By continuing to refer to the word genocide, he has only pushed the RS closer to a referendum. Bye-bye Bosnia.

3. Srebrenica was not genocide.

The only organization which speaks for the intnt'l cmty is the UN. 100% of all countries agree on that. The UNSC vote on Srebrenica genocide failed. According to the UN site:

"All members of the UN agree to accept and carry out the decisions of the UNSC. While other organs of the UN make recommendations to member states, only the UNSC has the power to make decisions that member states are then obligated to implement under the Charter."

4. ICC does not speak for the intnt'l cmty. At the time of the 2004 Genocide vote, not even 50% of the world ratified ICC. Today only 54% have ratified. From the ICC site:

"ICC is an indep international organization, and is not part of the UN system"

Thanks Nazif.

The only people who have not had democratic expression in this entire unfortunate unravelling is Serbs.

Everyone else got the right to succeed along administrative borders that Tito created arbitrarily.

Everyone else walked out of Yugoslavia with territories that were larger than the size of the territories they walked in with.

Everyone else got the right to self-determination except the nearly 2M Serbs of Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo.

"That's not the way we should remember the victims of genocide."

Note his reference to "genocide."

Serbia and Russia's attempt at derailing the UN proposal has had an adverse effect. The BBC one of the biggest broadcasters world wide has presented the events in Srebrenica as genocide. What do you think the whole worlds version of events were at Srebrenica. Genocide?

Miroslav Lajcak seems to think so.

Ned,

First, I don't know that most Serbs want to break it up (as long as there is no erosion of the Republic status of RS and as long as Serbia is not forced into anything concerning Kosovo's continued evolution). This referendum is a warning.

Anyway, there is only one way to break it up peacefully, and that is by adopting a waiting game. Slow motion atrophy. Contrariness. Obstinate behavior across several decades. No rush (as long as its Republic status is not threatened). All of the above are tactics used against the Ottomans. Serbs know the international Cmty will tire sooner or later and seeks to disengage. Bye-Bye Bosnia is not a call to succeed, but rather a call to stop caring.

Regarding the referendum question, I think it is fair with the right amount of heavy-handedness to counter the High Representative's heavy handedness). Serbs don't want a muscular High Representative to strip away their republic status. The average farmer in Bosnia knows what the score is and what the High Representative is trying to engineer. Serbs will never live under a Muslim government. It is like asking a black man to go back and live on a plantation. It won't happen. No way. No how.

So, in short, Bosnia will die all on its own. And each year, it dies a little more. Peacefully.

Factman: Do you not think that the correct way to ensure your desired outcome in a referendum is through the strength of your argument rather than by loading the question?

Factman: Two questions for you if you will indulge me. 1. In what way do you envisage Bosnia breaking up peacefully (your comment-Bye Bye Bosnia)? 2. Have you read the referendum question and do you believe that it is fair and neutral without attempting to prejudice the outcome?

One of the reasons you have colonialism is your inability to cater to "democratic expression" for ALL.

Nationalism and fascism will not be allowed to thrive in the RS as a part of Bosnia and Herzegovina. I don't think Europe wants a statelet that was created on the basis of lies, massive crimes and violence and genocide. But it will have to remain within BiH and be governed from Sarajevo at some point.

Bob: Yes it will have to remain in BiH, no it won't have to be governed from Sarajevo (unless Dayton is changed with the consent of all 3 constituent peoples).

Amazing. It never ceases to amaze me just how much and for how long these 'western democratic unelected smartarses' are going to remain hypocritical. It was more than ok for Kosovo to just announce they are breaking away with the suport of NATO power but RS cannot even hold a referendum. It was more than OK for all the former republics of Yugoslavia to just break away without the support of Serbs who were and still supposed to be constitutional ethnic group and without whose participation was illegal to do it but Serbs are not awarded the same rights.
An excellent reason for RS to break away is to get rid of all outside interference in it's government. Nobody elected this man to have any say and yet he is the prime authority there. Problem will never go away and things can get very ugly if the issue of borders is not resolved once and for all.
Forget Bosnia (mini Yugoslavia) which cannot survive. If Serbs, Croats and Muslims could live together equally in one country Yugoslavia should never have broken up. What makes them think that the same people can live in peace in a mini Yugoslavia?

I guess so. But one would have to ask them why they chose those words. Like all Serbs here, we are just observers, looking from the outside in, and have no special understanding of referendums. We just want a fair shake for Serbs -- after 2 decades of no fair shakes. I would say most people in RS are past the point of caring. They just dont want to lose their rights (guaranteed to them under Dayton) and are being vigilant becase the fox is outside the chicken coop.

The reason that this referendum should not be held is that it will not have any effect on the way state institutions operate and will cost money to hold that could be better spent elsewhere. Greece held a referendum that no-one paid any attention too, including Mr Tsipras. We call this sort of self indulgence 'naval gazing', probably difficult for the less than slim line Mile to avoid.

Factman: I too do not want to see Serbs being denied their rights under Dayton. What those rights are and whether or not they are being denied is of course the big question. I would prefer to talk to the man or woman in the street in Banja Luka or Visegrad to obtain their opinions rather than rely on the word of a man whose stated intention is to have an independent RS. In fact, I might just do it as I have plenty of free time and a smattering of Serbo Croat, if it's OK to use this description of the language. I'll report back!

Curious is it not that when the RS wants to uphold the status of Dayton publicly it is held up as a destroyer of Dayton, yet when the West tries to 'reform' Dayton out of existence ('to join the EU' is the latest wheeze), it is ok.

For all the politiking going on by Dodik (i.e. domestic political and economic problems), if the West wasn't trying to continually get rid of the RS by hook or by crook, then Dodik wouldn't have had so much opportunity to stir the pot. His aims are clearly reactive on this front, most obvious by Oric being extradited to Bosnia where he gets hugs and kisses, the Brits trying to pin genocide on the whole Serb nation etc. Butter wouldn't melt in these hypocritical morons' mouths.

Serbs will never live under a Muslim government. It is like asking a black man to go back and live on a plantation. It won't happen. No way. No how.

(factman, 21 July 2015 05:29)

Hell even I don't want to live under a Moslem Government. Whatever that is. Who's asking Serbs to live under Moslem rule anyway?

Factman your statement implies bigotry. Either on your part or those you proclaim to speak on behalf of. It may be wise you take to it's meaning.

Incidentally the same argument could be said for Croats, Bosnians, Albanians, Montenegrins. No way. No how.

I'd much prefer a state where there is a diverse group of opinions or peoples. Whether in Serbia, Bosnia. I don't care as long as respect exists among st all peoples. Difficult considering the past but possible. In fact I don't think there's much choice.

That's very politically correct of you and utopian.

Now lets get back to reality:

The Serb people have no interest in living under Muslims

The reasons are evident and stem from their treatment under Muslims from 1389 until liberation in 1878.

PS: Greeks, Bulgarians, Romanians, Macedonians, Montenegrins all feel the same way.

It's not about racism.... it's about survival.

"That's not the way we should remember the victims of genocide."

Note his reference to "genocide."

Serbia and Russia's attempt at derailing the UN proposal has had an adverse effect. The BBC one of the biggest broadcasters world wide has presented the events in Srebrenica as genocide. What do you think the whole worlds version of events were at Srebrenica. Genocide?

Miroslav Lajcak seems to think so.

1. Amazing what lengths some will go to disallow a democratic expression. Colonialism. Colonialism. Colonialism.

2. By continuing to refer to the word genocide, he has only pushed the RS closer to a referendum. Bye-bye Bosnia.

3. Srebrenica was not genocide.

The only organization which speaks for the intnt'l cmty is the UN. 100% of all countries agree on that. The UNSC vote on Srebrenica genocide failed. According to the UN site:

"All members of the UN agree to accept and carry out the decisions of the UNSC. While other organs of the UN make recommendations to member states, only the UNSC has the power to make decisions that member states are then obligated to implement under the Charter."

4. ICC does not speak for the intnt'l cmty. At the time of the 2004 Genocide vote, not even 50% of the world ratified ICC. Today only 54% have ratified. From the ICC site:

"ICC is an indep international organization, and is not part of the UN system"

One of the reasons you have colonialism is your inability to cater to "democratic expression" for ALL.

Nationalism and fascism will not be allowed to thrive in the RS as a part of Bosnia and Herzegovina. I don't think Europe wants a statelet that was created on the basis of lies, massive crimes and violence and genocide. But it will have to remain within BiH and be governed from Sarajevo at some point.

The reason that this referendum should not be held is that it will not have any effect on the way state institutions operate and will cost money to hold that could be better spent elsewhere. Greece held a referendum that no-one paid any attention too, including Mr Tsipras. We call this sort of self indulgence 'naval gazing', probably difficult for the less than slim line Mile to avoid.

Amazing. It never ceases to amaze me just how much and for how long these 'western democratic unelected smartarses' are going to remain hypocritical. It was more than ok for Kosovo to just announce they are breaking away with the suport of NATO power but RS cannot even hold a referendum. It was more than OK for all the former republics of Yugoslavia to just break away without the support of Serbs who were and still supposed to be constitutional ethnic group and without whose participation was illegal to do it but Serbs are not awarded the same rights.
An excellent reason for RS to break away is to get rid of all outside interference in it's government. Nobody elected this man to have any say and yet he is the prime authority there. Problem will never go away and things can get very ugly if the issue of borders is not resolved once and for all.
Forget Bosnia (mini Yugoslavia) which cannot survive. If Serbs, Croats and Muslims could live together equally in one country Yugoslavia should never have broken up. What makes them think that the same people can live in peace in a mini Yugoslavia?

Thanks Nazif.

The only people who have not had democratic expression in this entire unfortunate unravelling is Serbs.

Everyone else got the right to succeed along administrative borders that Tito created arbitrarily.

Everyone else walked out of Yugoslavia with territories that were larger than the size of the territories they walked in with.

Everyone else got the right to self-determination except the nearly 2M Serbs of Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo.

Ned,

First, I don't know that most Serbs want to break it up (as long as there is no erosion of the Republic status of RS and as long as Serbia is not forced into anything concerning Kosovo's continued evolution). This referendum is a warning.

Anyway, there is only one way to break it up peacefully, and that is by adopting a waiting game. Slow motion atrophy. Contrariness. Obstinate behavior across several decades. No rush (as long as its Republic status is not threatened). All of the above are tactics used against the Ottomans. Serbs know the international Cmty will tire sooner or later and seeks to disengage. Bye-Bye Bosnia is not a call to succeed, but rather a call to stop caring.

Regarding the referendum question, I think it is fair with the right amount of heavy-handedness to counter the High Representative's heavy handedness). Serbs don't want a muscular High Representative to strip away their republic status. The average farmer in Bosnia knows what the score is and what the High Representative is trying to engineer. Serbs will never live under a Muslim government. It is like asking a black man to go back and live on a plantation. It won't happen. No way. No how.

So, in short, Bosnia will die all on its own. And each year, it dies a little more. Peacefully.

I guess so. But one would have to ask them why they chose those words. Like all Serbs here, we are just observers, looking from the outside in, and have no special understanding of referendums. We just want a fair shake for Serbs -- after 2 decades of no fair shakes. I would say most people in RS are past the point of caring. They just dont want to lose their rights (guaranteed to them under Dayton) and are being vigilant becase the fox is outside the chicken coop.

Factman: Two questions for you if you will indulge me. 1. In what way do you envisage Bosnia breaking up peacefully (your comment-Bye Bye Bosnia)? 2. Have you read the referendum question and do you believe that it is fair and neutral without attempting to prejudice the outcome?

Factman: Do you not think that the correct way to ensure your desired outcome in a referendum is through the strength of your argument rather than by loading the question?

That's very politically correct of you and utopian.

Now lets get back to reality:

The Serb people have no interest in living under Muslims

The reasons are evident and stem from their treatment under Muslims from 1389 until liberation in 1878.

PS: Greeks, Bulgarians, Romanians, Macedonians, Montenegrins all feel the same way.

It's not about racism.... it's about survival.

Bob: Yes it will have to remain in BiH, no it won't have to be governed from Sarajevo (unless Dayton is changed with the consent of all 3 constituent peoples).

Factman: I too do not want to see Serbs being denied their rights under Dayton. What those rights are and whether or not they are being denied is of course the big question. I would prefer to talk to the man or woman in the street in Banja Luka or Visegrad to obtain their opinions rather than rely on the word of a man whose stated intention is to have an independent RS. In fact, I might just do it as I have plenty of free time and a smattering of Serbo Croat, if it's OK to use this description of the language. I'll report back!

Curious is it not that when the RS wants to uphold the status of Dayton publicly it is held up as a destroyer of Dayton, yet when the West tries to 'reform' Dayton out of existence ('to join the EU' is the latest wheeze), it is ok.

For all the politiking going on by Dodik (i.e. domestic political and economic problems), if the West wasn't trying to continually get rid of the RS by hook or by crook, then Dodik wouldn't have had so much opportunity to stir the pot. His aims are clearly reactive on this front, most obvious by Oric being extradited to Bosnia where he gets hugs and kisses, the Brits trying to pin genocide on the whole Serb nation etc. Butter wouldn't melt in these hypocritical morons' mouths.

Serbs will never live under a Muslim government. It is like asking a black man to go back and live on a plantation. It won't happen. No way. No how.

(factman, 21 July 2015 05:29)

Hell even I don't want to live under a Moslem Government. Whatever that is. Who's asking Serbs to live under Moslem rule anyway?

Factman your statement implies bigotry. Either on your part or those you proclaim to speak on behalf of. It may be wise you take to it's meaning.

Incidentally the same argument could be said for Croats, Bosnians, Albanians, Montenegrins. No way. No how.

I'd much prefer a state where there is a diverse group of opinions or peoples. Whether in Serbia, Bosnia. I don't care as long as respect exists among st all peoples. Difficult considering the past but possible. In fact I don't think there's much choice.