President wants government to seek Russian veto - report

Nobody said so, but still the Srebrencia massacre was the worst atrocity in Europe after WW2
(Comm. Parrisson, 17 June 2015 11:31)

You say that every single day. Is that the one-liner you are trained to give at the NGO summits in Belgrade? There weren't many atrocities between WWII-Yugoslav Wars in Europe. Saying that doesnt somehow make Srebrenica comparable to WWII.

creating an image of Serbia in the world, just like Ahmadinejad did for Iran with denying the holocaust.
(Comm. Parrisson, 17 June 2015 11:31)

But it's not the Holocaust. It's 8000 deaths claimed, and slightly over 4000 burials. Serbs claim 3500 were killed in and around Srebrenica. The Hague of course has freed all those who kill Serbian civilians.

When you trivialize the Holocaust and WWII for your own political objectives, you're shitting on millions of victims.

Vucic needs to send a clear and unequivocal message to the UK and west Serbia stands up for itself.

I am beginning to wonder if Vucic knew what was planned by his so called EU "friends" of Serbia when he mentioned hard times ahead Unity required - well Vucic its time you stood up for SERBIA's interest and not that of so called "friends" who do nothing but ridicule and insult!

Vucic needs to get real and accept that this is all a further obstruction to chapters being opened by those who pretend to be "friends" while doing all it can to kick the "friend" down, down, down again! Dacic surprises with his words "even if we recognised Kosovo we would not join EU" - so true given this British ploy.

New foreign policy beyond the EU mantra is needed! What Serbia needs is to actually get on with real reforms that it needs for the reason it needs. Reforms not for EU sake not as a goal to EU rather because they are needed and will progress in Serbia's interest. Stop focusing on EU goal and do whats right for Serbia because its the right thing to do and Vucic will have unity!

First things first, i.e. wasn't there a genocide in WWII, when hundreds of Christian Orthodox Serbs were massacred in the Nazi State of Croatia? Has there ever been a UN resolution passed condemning that very real genocide?

@the actual truth

Whatever indictmenet is issued against the sons of Skenderbeg as you so call Albanians, not one of them will be accused of having even attempted anything like Srebrenica and if you think they will then you're lying to yourself. As for being not being better or worse, I know of one fact, its not the sons of Skenderbeg who have produced the second number of war criminals after Nazi Germany, its the heavenly band to have done so. This is one actual truth for you

Defence of the criminal, I'm not the only one who stole, others stole too. By the logic of the heavenly morons, Germany should seek a review of the Nuremburg trials, the persecution of the Germans has gone on for far too long

They further noted that "Srebrenica was not an isolated phenomenon, it occurred during the civil war, after numerous massacres of Serb civilians in the vicinity of that same Srebrenica."

What comes next? The holocaust was not an isolated phenomenon, but something that took part during WW2, where 100.000s of Germans civilian were killed in that same WW2?

"...everyone in the UN Security Council should be explained that crimes of this type are not our invention..."

Nobody said so, but still the Srebrencia massacre was the worst atrocity in Europe after WW2 - if you downplay it or not, Mr. Nicolic. And the ICJ ruled it was a genocide, if you deny it or not.

And a resolution about Srebrenica has nothing to deal with Ustashe, Nazis, Armenians and whatever other genocide that took place before.

And no, 'the west' doesn't need to 'deal a blow to Serbia's image', Nicolic and his behavior does a very good job with creating an image of Serbia in the world, just like Ahmadinejad did for Iran with denying the holocaust.

Like always!
Serbs again ask help from Russia...
No surprise!
I hope Russia do the right action, even if the Russian politics is to predictable and we already know that they will support Serbs in their crimes.
The next disappointment ...

Defence of the criminal, I'm not the only one who stole, others stole too.
(Nikolle, 17 June 2015 10:16)

You'll be singing that song over and over once the war crimes tribunal for the KLA is established and indictments are issued. Don't think for one moment the children of Skanderbeg won't. You're no worse than Serbs. Or better for that matter.

(rote, 19 June 2015 10:23)

My grandfather was a little child at time dear rote, and he escape alive by chance, while his mother and father died trying to protect him.
His brother was a partisan courier and he was killed by Germans, and even this 5 may, like all the years we were in the "Martyrs of Nation" Cemetery memorial to lead flowers on his grave.
http://www.memorialmuseums.org/eng/staettens/view/1262/Memorial-to-the-Victims-of-the-Wehrmacht-Massacre-of-Borov%C3%AB#

And about Gjergj Kastrioti Skanderbeg - be sure that he was an Albanian, till today live "Kastrioti" families in Albania.

When the hat is on the other foot, Serbia and Russia will create an empire.

I have seen it in my coffee cup.

(rote, 18 June 2015 19:58)
Sorry, but you seems my grandfather after drinking some cups of rakia..
Reading to much informations in internet must confuse you to much my dear, especially when you have any knowledge about the history of one country...
But by the way, what do you know about Albanians names?
I show you same to common names in today Albania.
- Vesa ( dew ), Vera ( like wine ), Vjosa, Vojsava, Mara, Mamica, Josefina, (J)Helena, Angela-ina etc..
- Gjergj, Gjon, Gjin, Pal, Mark, Vlash, Kostandin, etc.etc.
Those names are to to common in today Albania, dear rote ( especially in Catholics ).
- Citty like,
Kruja, Velipoja, Tropoja, Pogradec, Dibra etc, etc.(
My dear rote, to understand better and not be confused you should have a "sound" knowledge about the Albanians names, culture and especially language.
If not some day you will confuse the Rome city, with the capital of Roms.
Cheers!

I am trying to figure out rote if you're being stupid on purpose or if you honestly believe the rubbish you just wrote. That Skenderbeg was Russian not one credible historian has ever claimed. Im curios to know what historical garbage you will tell us next

When you trivialize the Holocaust and WWII for your own political objectives, you're shitting on millions of victims.
(Ari Gold, 17 June 2015 12:34)

Ari,
Genocide was never defined by using the number of deaths of victims as a criteria. It was determined by the intent to eradicate all or a portion of a people. Serbia can't get off the hook by simply claiming incompetence on the part of the Chetniks to be able to finish the job. You are shitting on the Serb people by attempting to convince them Serbia was not guilty of genocide because the Chetniks were not able to kill more innocent people. By not coming to terms and acknowledging what everyone else knows to be the horrendous war crimes committed in their name, the Serb people will never be able to ease their conscience.

@ rrote ( a.g.a.i.n )
Exactly ! It will be quite natural if they ask for a help and won’t be a surprise when Russia renders it.

"Quite Natural" - will be if you condemn the crimes made by Serbs and not try to cover their crimes.
Serbia decide to start the war, while she decide that the Jugoslavian Army must "infringe" the borders of Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Autonomous Province of Kosovo, for WHAT? Which was the purpose of Serbia, please???
There wasn't any single Sloven, Kroat, Bosnian, Albanian who tried to infringe the Serbian borders. So, you can't blame any Slo, Kro, Bosn or Alb who was in it's own territory when Serbian military go to attack them. Simple, no??
But, as much as you ( Russia ) express oneself that you are ready to "support" Serbian actions - just that Serbia choose to sit only in your "chair" ( no matter if those actions were criminal actions against innocents organized by Serbian state ) - I do not discuss anymore.
The only time when Russia was a great country was in the WWII.
That Russia did not exist anymore. Sorry!
* Do you feel bad or guilty for the millions of Germans who died from your bombardments?
Or you feel more bad and guilty for the millions of innocent that they killed?
I will ask you the same for Serbs! But, as usually you have two standarts!

You're in Israel now exKfor? Is this you seeking atonment for having helped Albanians cede from Serbia? Be careful over there, before you told us that you see visions, you might become afflicted with the Jerusalem syndrom

The question is if the shqiptarët are Albanians ?

The same question is?

Hellen is Greece?
Grand Britain is England?
Deutschland is Germany?
Hrvatska is Croatia?

ETC...ETC..ETC...

I now see that you genuienly believe the nonsense that you just wrote. Its not a case of you being mislwd, its a case of you being stupid

I don't have the evidence but Hague did and got rid of it. There is a witness to that and her name is Carla.
It's so easy for you to demand evidence from me knowing full well that evidence has to be gathered again which is difficult.
Maybe you should ask why Carla would lie about something like this. Before you say anything please don't start with Serbia paid her to say lies. How ridiculous.
(Peggy, 19 June 2015 13:33
If you review the reports what evidence gathered was biological waste such as gauze, syringes, medical vials and tubing gathered from a dumpsite several kilometers from the "yellow house" none of it was linked to any person or party. There was no way to tell who dumped it there. And everything destroyed was photographed and catalogued. So no actual evidence was destroyed. Also it was reported by the Hague that the orders to destroy this material came from Carla herself. But nothing physical they had gathered was PROOF that organ harvesting took place.

Comm.

“holocaust was not an isolated phenomenon”

After WW2 above 150 000 former Wehrmaht soldiers and officers were able to repatriate to Israel. We don’t know how many thousands were killed in Kursk or Stalingrad or stayed in Germany or went to other countries but within Wehrmaht there were 23 colonels, 5 general-majors, 8 general-lieutenants, and 2 full field marshals of jewish or semi-jewish origin. Including Kanzler Helmut Schmidt, head of RSHA (Abwehr, Gestapo) Reinhardt Geidrich, de facto head of Luftwaffe Erhard Milh ect. Even Eihman the executed in Israel was a Jew. Also during WW2 in Palestine 130 000 men and women strong Jewish army was formed by the Zionists. But they never took part in the war. Also Russia is one of the few states that does not admit Holocaust and nobody is using such a nice pretext to mud Russia. Because in this case we'll have to explain things that the West would not like to hear. Also 1954 was the first time the word Holocaust was used. It was in the USA but in Nurnberg of 1945 the Jewish tragedy was not considered as something special. Byelorussians, Roma, homosexuals and Frank Masons suffered more. While even in 1945 Jews in Germany still had their newspapers edited. Yes they suffered much but there were peoples and groups that suffered nothing less.

Joni,
“Like always!
Serbs again ask help from Russia...
No surprise!”

Exactly ! It will be quite natural if they ask for a help and won’t be a surprise when Russia renders it. But the biggest problem today is that the Russians do not know how far Serbs are ready to go in one issue or another. As Lavrov said we cannot be bigger Serbs than the Serbs themselves. So the ball is on the Serbian side. They play games sitting on two chairs and taking risks of damaging their ass. But last week Toma said good words that we either raise or fall together. Thus sooner or later Serbs will have to choose between the “Nightingales And Bombers”

http://my.mail.ru/music/search/manfred%20mann%20-%20nightingales%20and%20bombers?ref=gomailru-music
http://kibergrad.com/12085/manfred-manns-earth-band/nightingales-and-bombers

@the actual truth

Whatever indictmenet is issued against the sons of Skenderbeg as you so call Albanians, not one of them will be accused of having even attempted anything like Srebrenica and if you think they will then you're lying to yourself.
=============================
You're the one lying to yourself. If you don't think that organ harvesting is a lie then you are also in deep denial and will have one helluva shock one day.
Serbs have suffered just as much as the others becaue in a civil war everyone is the agressor and everyone is the victim but turning into ghouls and profiting from such a beastly business is on another level altogether which only Albanians have managed to get to. So don't think yourself superior to us in any way.

Political stunt? This is just you not having a retort to anything and dabbling in conspiracies. What is a political stunt? Srebrenica? No Peggy, that is proven fact, its the organ thing that hasn't got anything going for it

@Peggy

Unlike the organ harvesting allegation, which remains just that, an allegation, Srebrenica is proven fact, just like Serbia producing the second number of war criminals after Nazi is a proven fact

Nikolle

“sons of Skenderbeg as you so call Albanians”

Last week I explained why this man could not be an Albanian in the current meaning of the word. Георгий, Искандер, Бек are 3 of the names of Tamerlane whose capitol was either Tirana or Tiraspol. But it does not mean he was an Albanian. He was a Cossack Ataman from Urals. If so then it explains why his father and mother had Slav names as well as their 9 children.

You're so enlightned rote, sometimes I wonder if you could possibly be Einstein reincarnated. So you did Skenderberg last week, which historical figure will you educate us on next week?

Unlike the organ harvesting allegation, which remains just that, an allegation, Srebrenica is proven fact, just like Serbia producing the second number of war criminals after Nazi is a proven fact
(Nikolle, 18 June 2015 11:16)
===========================
It's a political stunt. Picking which bits to inflate and which bits to discard is not proof of anything except the west's propaganda machine going into overdrive.
The west is very biased right now. When they turn on you, and they will, will you give them just as much credibility as you do now.

@nikolleamatullah "Defence of the criminal, I'm not the only one who stole, others stole too. By the logic of the heavenly morons, Germany should seek a review of the Nuremburg trials, the persecution of the Germans has gone on for far too long" - yes indeed - since SU and the Western allies war crimes were not tried there or later it was a political court, like icty is - and many others. and alleged 8000 KIA pusslims was by no mean a genocide - as even Zuroff -who accuses my country of holocaust - says. but what albanian nazis know about that, u r too occupied with ur fairytales of illyrians and so on..what a buch of pathetic people! greetings from Israel where I currently serve and look how ur co-religionsists killing each other en masse on the othe side of the border.

Joni

“you have two standarts!”

What double standards are you talking about when half of my comments especially about history enjoy only 20% of “likes”. It means that Albanians and Serbs get united for a while. Also b92 is not very happy about my posts because they are too long and provocative. Yesterday I wrote two comments about Holocaust and now they are never found, although at least one was placed here. It was rather strange because western media become panic if anyone doubts the Holocaust dogmas. And not only b92 but most of the folks in this forum also gave me their poor comments. Same about the history when Serbs start to hate me if I talk about the Russian Ottomans or Kosovo battle or the full title of Vladislav III ect. Because I deprive them of the fairy tales they love to believe in. Same about your Scanderbeg who most likely was Russian. As well as I don’t think that current Albanians are the same Albanians ("the whites")that were mentioned in the history and we can talk about it. So when I back Serbs in the conflicts it all because they are the main victim on the Balcans. They cemented the big Slav state that was too prospering, too independent and too different from the West to let it exist. So the US sponsored wars were launched and now all peoples in Balkans live very bad. There’s a small resistance inside Serbia and I’d like to keep it the way I can. As simple as that ! Because I really mean it.

...Same about your Scanderbeg who most likely was Russian...
@rote,
What are you smoking mate?
Even Serbs say he was half Albanian half Serb,while you are saying he is Russian?
Wake up man!

So you did Skenderberg last week, which historical figure will you educate us on next week?
(Nikolle, 18 June 2015 23:20)

You Nikolle there’s nothing personal in what say and nothing anti-Albanian. Simply try to explain the following.

Геогий Иванович Скандербег

FATHER - Иван Павлович
MOTHER - Воислава
SONS – Станиша, Репош, Константин, Георгий (Скандербег)
DAUGHTERS - Мара, Елена, Ангелина, Влайка и Мамика


PS Old Russian for Georgy was Gjurgy and Gjorg.

Joni


Look our family fates differ not much. As for Kastrioti and other Albanian second names ending with “ti” I suppose they have Goth-Alanian/Sarmatian routes. Most likely such Albanians must have R1b happlogroup like other South Slavs and western-europeans. Such families are met at least in the north of Italy in Yassi region of Hungary and Caucasus. I mean the Ossetians where this TI means belonging to a family. Moreover some os the Ossetian and Italian second nemes are very close like Bugati and Bugatti. Also families like Travolta belong here. In Iran such names are transformed into DI end like Ahmadi. So could be Kastrioti but it can merely be a pure Albanian end of the family name. Even if like Kelmendi the TI endings are wide spread. Because it cannot be translated from Albanian. It’s neither good for you nor bad. Here I take an excuse till the evening. Have a good day and do not swear !

Peggy please provide us atleast one proven Serb victim of an organ snatching .

I doubt it because it does not exist.

Or are you missing an organ (brain) that we should know about?
(Azir, 19 June 2015 01:55)
==================================
I don't have the evidence but Hague did and got rid of it. There is a witness to that and her name is Carla.
It's so easy for you to demand evidence from me knowing full well that evidence has to be gathered again which is difficult.
Maybe you should ask why Carla would lie about something like this. Before you say anything please don't start with Serbia paid her to say lies. How ridiculous.

Joni

Hellen is Greece?
Grand Britain is England?
Deutschland is Germany?
Hrvatska is Croatia?

None of them is so evident for me. At least I have questions about them all. As I already said first nations started to form only in 17 century while their greater part was formed much in 18-20 centuries. Say in 19 century most peoples in Central Asia or Azerbaijan would tell you that they were Tatars. It was in 20 century when nations like Uzbeks, Turkmens, Kazakhs, Kirgiz, Azeris were formed while Tatar meant only that you are a non-Orthodox. Same in Africa and America. History of the mankind is much shorter than they expose it. Before the 17 century those inside the city walls were one people regardless of the languages that they spoke. Many peoples were attached to their current names only in 17-18 centuries when Scaliger history was imposed. With zero proof he said that Jerusalem was in Palestine, that Jesus was born 2015 years ago, that that Israel was inside Palestine, that Mohammad made his Hijra 622 years after Christ, that Israelites and Jews were the same people ect. Besides many peoples got their current names after their military leaders or geographical places. Words “Russian” and “Russia” were first used in 1653 as well as Mongolo-Tatars. Word Holocaust together with the idea first appeared in America 9 years after WW2. ect.

(Peggy, 22 June 2015 03:54)
Well Peggy using the photograph or catalogue would be just as effective as any DNA test on medical wastes that sit on a trash site exposed to wind, rain, snow and vermin for years. It would be so contaminated and degraded that for forensics it is useless.
Carla's intent was to sell a book, it was to make money on what she did at the ICTY. She never said that organ harvesting did take place but said there were rumors of it and that she was told that investigations had not yielded results and to not waste anymore time on it. Plus if you had DNA evidence you would have to have a victim to compare the DNA to and that no one has come up with.
I doubt she ever thought the Serbs would pick up on it and create such a media campaign.
No one will ever be able to convince you and your lot that it did not happen as you will always hope it did, even though you have no actual evidence. You cling to the hope that this would prove to the world that the Albanians somehow deserved the cruel and horrendous acts inflicted upon them by the Milosevic regime.

Peggy please provide us atleast one proven Serb victim of an organ snatching .

I doubt it because it does not exist.

Or are you missing an organ (brain) that we should know about?

NIKOLLE

Also you may compare the names of Gjorg Skander (Iskander)beg(Bek) with those of Tamerlane. Below is their full list.

Titles/names of Tamerlane :

Great Emir, Bek, Mirza, Abu Mansur, Abu Fatih, Abu Ghazi, Sahib-e Kirani, Hagan (Kagan/Cohen), Gete Stani, Sultan, Iskander-ul-Ahad (Alexander the Great), Gurgan (Gijurgi, Georgy).

I give you also the list of the living in Europe privileged successors of the last Sultan Mehmet V with dominating Russian R1a1a happlogroup :

Hayattaki Osmanlı ªehzadeleri, Doğum Tarihleri ve Soyundan Geldiği Padiºah

1. Шехзаде Дюндар Османогълу Эфенди (1930) (II. Abdülhamit)
2. Шехзаде Харун Османогълу Эфенди (1932) (II. Abdülhamit)
3. Шехзаде Дженгиз Назым Эфенди (1939) (V. Mehmed)
4. Шехзаде Осман Селахеддин Османогълу Эфенди (1940) (V. Murat)
5. Шехзаде Ёмер Абдюлмеджид Османогълу Эфенди (1941) (V. Mehmet)
6. Шехзаде Мехмед Селим Орхан Эфенди (1943) (II. Abdülhamit)
7. Шехзаде Мехмед Зияддин Эфенди (1947) (V. Mehmet)
8. Шехзаде Роланд Селим Кадыр Эфенди (1949) (II. Abdülhamit)
9. Шехзаде Селим Джем Эфенди (1955) (I. Abdülmecid)
10. Шехзаде Орхан Ибрахим Cюлейман Саадеддин Эфенди (1959) (Abdülaziz)

How about the yoke ?

Joni

“Sorry, but you seems my grandfather after drinking some cups of rakia..”

As you know real WW2 started on June 22 in 1941 and it was Sunday. On Monday morning my grandfather went to city and in the evening he came with a photo that is now hanging on my wall. Next morning he went to the local commissariat as a voluntary. They trained him for 3 month and they gave him 1-st Leutenant and it was the last time my father saw him. In 1942 he was killed in Ukraine. Now please tell me about your grandpa and I’ll respond you.


Teodor Muzaka

“What are you smoking mate? Even Serbs say he was half Albanian half Serb, while you are saying he is Russian? Wake up man!”

I smoke Kent-4. I love Serbs but what they were taught is not always true. And I don’t insist that Scanderbeg was a Russian. I only suppose it. Other version is that he was a Slav (R1b) of Goth-Alanian/Sarmatian/Scythian origin. At least Kastrioti second name sounds like this. Besides they made the South wing of the Great Horde in Balkans, France, North Italy, Spain, Britain ect. My third version is that this exact man never existed and is a reflection of someone else maybe of Tamerlane whose capitol was on the Balkans. If so then we are back to my first version because Tamerlane was Russian.

Nikolle

“That Skenderbeg was Russian not one credible historian has ever claimed."

We all are stupid one way or another. Otherwise how come that all Albanians believe something is white and all Serbs believe it is green. So am I but words “credible historian” makes me smile because you are never allowed to become as such if you sing out of tune. The problem is not that Skanderbeg was or not an Albanian. Because for me it’s rather clear. The question is if the shqiptarët are Albanians ? With your happlogroups you are rather Greeks or Jews while “Albanian” means “the whites”.

Also word Russian sounds funny when we talk about 15-th century because nations started to form only in 17 century. The Great Horde was the only state in the world and all peoples regardless of anything were subjects of the Great Khans/Kniaz of the Rurik/Komnin Dynasty. No English, no Germans, no Serbs, no Russians or Albanians. The only difference between us and other Slavs was that our ancestors stayed on our traditional lands while other Slavs and many non-Slav tribes moved together with the Horde. It’s a long story but most Balkan people appeared here after 1485 as the first wave of Horde peoples died or were killed during the epidemy.


"what historical garbage you will tell us next”

For the time being I read a book about the Black Nobility and it matches my vision of history more than the Scaliger/Petavius version of the 17-th century that you love.

Tamerlane’s old images and bronze

http://www.peshera.org/khrono/Fotos-08/foto-058.jpg
http://www.peshera.org/khrono/Fotos-08/foto-078.jpg
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6430/1118136.33/0_8bc49_c11dc8ec_XL.jpg
http://sojuzrus.lt/uploads/posts/2011-06/1308218950_4.jpg
http://s017.radikal.ru/i408/1112/2e/774bcce3eb8e.jpg

Who can say that this man could be a Mongolian ?

There was no way to tell who dumped it there. And everything destroyed was photographed and catalogued. So no actual evidence was destroyed. Also it was reported by the Hague that the orders to destroy this material came from Carla herself. But nothing physical they had gathered was PROOF that organ harvesting took place.
(At least tell the whole story, 19 June 2015 16:48)
-------------------------------------------------
I see. So if you wanted to run DNA tests now you can use the photograph or a catalogue. There is always a chance that the items would need to be re-examined but they saw fit to destroy it so evidence was destroyed.
If there was no proof that organ harvesting took place why would Carla ruin her reputation now to talk about it? She was in a perfect position to see if any coverup took place and there could be very good reasons why she didn't speak out before. Corruption runs in very high places. Some of the very top British politicians are suspected of some very nasty crimes but investigation into them is forbidden.

Like always!
Serbs again ask help from Russia...
No surprise!
I hope Russia do the right action, even if the Russian politics is to predictable and we already know that they will support Serbs in their crimes.
The next disappointment ...

They further noted that "Srebrenica was not an isolated phenomenon, it occurred during the civil war, after numerous massacres of Serb civilians in the vicinity of that same Srebrenica."

What comes next? The holocaust was not an isolated phenomenon, but something that took part during WW2, where 100.000s of Germans civilian were killed in that same WW2?

"...everyone in the UN Security Council should be explained that crimes of this type are not our invention..."

Nobody said so, but still the Srebrencia massacre was the worst atrocity in Europe after WW2 - if you downplay it or not, Mr. Nicolic. And the ICJ ruled it was a genocide, if you deny it or not.

And a resolution about Srebrenica has nothing to deal with Ustashe, Nazis, Armenians and whatever other genocide that took place before.

And no, 'the west' doesn't need to 'deal a blow to Serbia's image', Nicolic and his behavior does a very good job with creating an image of Serbia in the world, just like Ahmadinejad did for Iran with denying the holocaust.

Defence of the criminal, I'm not the only one who stole, others stole too. By the logic of the heavenly morons, Germany should seek a review of the Nuremburg trials, the persecution of the Germans has gone on for far too long

Nobody said so, but still the Srebrencia massacre was the worst atrocity in Europe after WW2
(Comm. Parrisson, 17 June 2015 11:31)

You say that every single day. Is that the one-liner you are trained to give at the NGO summits in Belgrade? There weren't many atrocities between WWII-Yugoslav Wars in Europe. Saying that doesnt somehow make Srebrenica comparable to WWII.

creating an image of Serbia in the world, just like Ahmadinejad did for Iran with denying the holocaust.
(Comm. Parrisson, 17 June 2015 11:31)

But it's not the Holocaust. It's 8000 deaths claimed, and slightly over 4000 burials. Serbs claim 3500 were killed in and around Srebrenica. The Hague of course has freed all those who kill Serbian civilians.

When you trivialize the Holocaust and WWII for your own political objectives, you're shitting on millions of victims.

When the hat is on the other foot, Serbia and Russia will create an empire.

I have seen it in my coffee cup.

@the actual truth

Whatever indictmenet is issued against the sons of Skenderbeg as you so call Albanians, not one of them will be accused of having even attempted anything like Srebrenica and if you think they will then you're lying to yourself. As for being not being better or worse, I know of one fact, its not the sons of Skenderbeg who have produced the second number of war criminals after Nazi Germany, its the heavenly band to have done so. This is one actual truth for you

First things first, i.e. wasn't there a genocide in WWII, when hundreds of Christian Orthodox Serbs were massacred in the Nazi State of Croatia? Has there ever been a UN resolution passed condemning that very real genocide?

Defence of the criminal, I'm not the only one who stole, others stole too.
(Nikolle, 17 June 2015 10:16)

You'll be singing that song over and over once the war crimes tribunal for the KLA is established and indictments are issued. Don't think for one moment the children of Skanderbeg won't. You're no worse than Serbs. Or better for that matter.

Joni


Look our family fates differ not much. As for Kastrioti and other Albanian second names ending with “ti” I suppose they have Goth-Alanian/Sarmatian routes. Most likely such Albanians must have R1b happlogroup like other South Slavs and western-europeans. Such families are met at least in the north of Italy in Yassi region of Hungary and Caucasus. I mean the Ossetians where this TI means belonging to a family. Moreover some os the Ossetian and Italian second nemes are very close like Bugati and Bugatti. Also families like Travolta belong here. In Iran such names are transformed into DI end like Ahmadi. So could be Kastrioti but it can merely be a pure Albanian end of the family name. Even if like Kelmendi the TI endings are wide spread. Because it cannot be translated from Albanian. It’s neither good for you nor bad. Here I take an excuse till the evening. Have a good day and do not swear !

Tamerlane’s old images and bronze

http://www.peshera.org/khrono/Fotos-08/foto-058.jpg
http://www.peshera.org/khrono/Fotos-08/foto-078.jpg
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6430/1118136.33/0_8bc49_c11dc8ec_XL.jpg
http://sojuzrus.lt/uploads/posts/2011-06/1308218950_4.jpg
http://s017.radikal.ru/i408/1112/2e/774bcce3eb8e.jpg

Who can say that this man could be a Mongolian ?

Comm.

“holocaust was not an isolated phenomenon”

After WW2 above 150 000 former Wehrmaht soldiers and officers were able to repatriate to Israel. We don’t know how many thousands were killed in Kursk or Stalingrad or stayed in Germany or went to other countries but within Wehrmaht there were 23 colonels, 5 general-majors, 8 general-lieutenants, and 2 full field marshals of jewish or semi-jewish origin. Including Kanzler Helmut Schmidt, head of RSHA (Abwehr, Gestapo) Reinhardt Geidrich, de facto head of Luftwaffe Erhard Milh ect. Even Eihman the executed in Israel was a Jew. Also during WW2 in Palestine 130 000 men and women strong Jewish army was formed by the Zionists. But they never took part in the war. Also Russia is one of the few states that does not admit Holocaust and nobody is using such a nice pretext to mud Russia. Because in this case we'll have to explain things that the West would not like to hear. Also 1954 was the first time the word Holocaust was used. It was in the USA but in Nurnberg of 1945 the Jewish tragedy was not considered as something special. Byelorussians, Roma, homosexuals and Frank Masons suffered more. While even in 1945 Jews in Germany still had their newspapers edited. Yes they suffered much but there were peoples and groups that suffered nothing less.

Joni,
“Like always!
Serbs again ask help from Russia...
No surprise!”

Exactly ! It will be quite natural if they ask for a help and won’t be a surprise when Russia renders it. But the biggest problem today is that the Russians do not know how far Serbs are ready to go in one issue or another. As Lavrov said we cannot be bigger Serbs than the Serbs themselves. So the ball is on the Serbian side. They play games sitting on two chairs and taking risks of damaging their ass. But last week Toma said good words that we either raise or fall together. Thus sooner or later Serbs will have to choose between the “Nightingales And Bombers”

http://my.mail.ru/music/search/manfred%20mann%20-%20nightingales%20and%20bombers?ref=gomailru-music
http://kibergrad.com/12085/manfred-manns-earth-band/nightingales-and-bombers

Nikolle

“That Skenderbeg was Russian not one credible historian has ever claimed."

We all are stupid one way or another. Otherwise how come that all Albanians believe something is white and all Serbs believe it is green. So am I but words “credible historian” makes me smile because you are never allowed to become as such if you sing out of tune. The problem is not that Skanderbeg was or not an Albanian. Because for me it’s rather clear. The question is if the shqiptarët are Albanians ? With your happlogroups you are rather Greeks or Jews while “Albanian” means “the whites”.

Also word Russian sounds funny when we talk about 15-th century because nations started to form only in 17 century. The Great Horde was the only state in the world and all peoples regardless of anything were subjects of the Great Khans/Kniaz of the Rurik/Komnin Dynasty. No English, no Germans, no Serbs, no Russians or Albanians. The only difference between us and other Slavs was that our ancestors stayed on our traditional lands while other Slavs and many non-Slav tribes moved together with the Horde. It’s a long story but most Balkan people appeared here after 1485 as the first wave of Horde peoples died or were killed during the epidemy.


"what historical garbage you will tell us next”

For the time being I read a book about the Black Nobility and it matches my vision of history more than the Scaliger/Petavius version of the 17-th century that you love.

When you trivialize the Holocaust and WWII for your own political objectives, you're shitting on millions of victims.
(Ari Gold, 17 June 2015 12:34)

Ari,
Genocide was never defined by using the number of deaths of victims as a criteria. It was determined by the intent to eradicate all or a portion of a people. Serbia can't get off the hook by simply claiming incompetence on the part of the Chetniks to be able to finish the job. You are shitting on the Serb people by attempting to convince them Serbia was not guilty of genocide because the Chetniks were not able to kill more innocent people. By not coming to terms and acknowledging what everyone else knows to be the horrendous war crimes committed in their name, the Serb people will never be able to ease their conscience.

Joni

“you have two standarts!”

What double standards are you talking about when half of my comments especially about history enjoy only 20% of “likes”. It means that Albanians and Serbs get united for a while. Also b92 is not very happy about my posts because they are too long and provocative. Yesterday I wrote two comments about Holocaust and now they are never found, although at least one was placed here. It was rather strange because western media become panic if anyone doubts the Holocaust dogmas. And not only b92 but most of the folks in this forum also gave me their poor comments. Same about the history when Serbs start to hate me if I talk about the Russian Ottomans or Kosovo battle or the full title of Vladislav III ect. Because I deprive them of the fairy tales they love to believe in. Same about your Scanderbeg who most likely was Russian. As well as I don’t think that current Albanians are the same Albanians ("the whites")that were mentioned in the history and we can talk about it. So when I back Serbs in the conflicts it all because they are the main victim on the Balcans. They cemented the big Slav state that was too prospering, too independent and too different from the West to let it exist. So the US sponsored wars were launched and now all peoples in Balkans live very bad. There’s a small resistance inside Serbia and I’d like to keep it the way I can. As simple as that ! Because I really mean it.

NIKOLLE

Also you may compare the names of Gjorg Skander (Iskander)beg(Bek) with those of Tamerlane. Below is their full list.

Titles/names of Tamerlane :

Great Emir, Bek, Mirza, Abu Mansur, Abu Fatih, Abu Ghazi, Sahib-e Kirani, Hagan (Kagan/Cohen), Gete Stani, Sultan, Iskander-ul-Ahad (Alexander the Great), Gurgan (Gijurgi, Georgy).

I give you also the list of the living in Europe privileged successors of the last Sultan Mehmet V with dominating Russian R1a1a happlogroup :

Hayattaki Osmanlı ªehzadeleri, Doğum Tarihleri ve Soyundan Geldiği Padiºah

1. Шехзаде Дюндар Османогълу Эфенди (1930) (II. Abdülhamit)
2. Шехзаде Харун Османогълу Эфенди (1932) (II. Abdülhamit)
3. Шехзаде Дженгиз Назым Эфенди (1939) (V. Mehmed)
4. Шехзаде Осман Селахеддин Османогълу Эфенди (1940) (V. Murat)
5. Шехзаде Ёмер Абдюлмеджид Османогълу Эфенди (1941) (V. Mehmet)
6. Шехзаде Мехмед Селим Орхан Эфенди (1943) (II. Abdülhamit)
7. Шехзаде Мехмед Зияддин Эфенди (1947) (V. Mehmet)
8. Шехзаде Роланд Селим Кадыр Эфенди (1949) (II. Abdülhamit)
9. Шехзаде Селим Джем Эфенди (1955) (I. Abdülmecid)
10. Шехзаде Орхан Ибрахим Cюлейман Саадеддин Эфенди (1959) (Abdülaziz)

How about the yoke ?

Nikolle

“sons of Skenderbeg as you so call Albanians”

Last week I explained why this man could not be an Albanian in the current meaning of the word. Георгий, Искандер, Бек are 3 of the names of Tamerlane whose capitol was either Tirana or Tiraspol. But it does not mean he was an Albanian. He was a Cossack Ataman from Urals. If so then it explains why his father and mother had Slav names as well as their 9 children.

So you did Skenderberg last week, which historical figure will you educate us on next week?
(Nikolle, 18 June 2015 23:20)

You Nikolle there’s nothing personal in what say and nothing anti-Albanian. Simply try to explain the following.

Геогий Иванович Скандербег

FATHER - Иван Павлович
MOTHER - Воислава
SONS – Станиша, Репош, Константин, Георгий (Скандербег)
DAUGHTERS - Мара, Елена, Ангелина, Влайка и Мамика


PS Old Russian for Georgy was Gjurgy and Gjorg.

Joni

“Sorry, but you seems my grandfather after drinking some cups of rakia..”

As you know real WW2 started on June 22 in 1941 and it was Sunday. On Monday morning my grandfather went to city and in the evening he came with a photo that is now hanging on my wall. Next morning he went to the local commissariat as a voluntary. They trained him for 3 month and they gave him 1-st Leutenant and it was the last time my father saw him. In 1942 he was killed in Ukraine. Now please tell me about your grandpa and I’ll respond you.


Teodor Muzaka

“What are you smoking mate? Even Serbs say he was half Albanian half Serb, while you are saying he is Russian? Wake up man!”

I smoke Kent-4. I love Serbs but what they were taught is not always true. And I don’t insist that Scanderbeg was a Russian. I only suppose it. Other version is that he was a Slav (R1b) of Goth-Alanian/Sarmatian/Scythian origin. At least Kastrioti second name sounds like this. Besides they made the South wing of the Great Horde in Balkans, France, North Italy, Spain, Britain ect. My third version is that this exact man never existed and is a reflection of someone else maybe of Tamerlane whose capitol was on the Balkans. If so then we are back to my first version because Tamerlane was Russian.

Peggy please provide us atleast one proven Serb victim of an organ snatching .

I doubt it because it does not exist.

Or are you missing an organ (brain) that we should know about?
(Azir, 19 June 2015 01:55)
==================================
I don't have the evidence but Hague did and got rid of it. There is a witness to that and her name is Carla.
It's so easy for you to demand evidence from me knowing full well that evidence has to be gathered again which is difficult.
Maybe you should ask why Carla would lie about something like this. Before you say anything please don't start with Serbia paid her to say lies. How ridiculous.

Vucic needs to send a clear and unequivocal message to the UK and west Serbia stands up for itself.

I am beginning to wonder if Vucic knew what was planned by his so called EU "friends" of Serbia when he mentioned hard times ahead Unity required - well Vucic its time you stood up for SERBIA's interest and not that of so called "friends" who do nothing but ridicule and insult!

Vucic needs to get real and accept that this is all a further obstruction to chapters being opened by those who pretend to be "friends" while doing all it can to kick the "friend" down, down, down again! Dacic surprises with his words "even if we recognised Kosovo we would not join EU" - so true given this British ploy.

New foreign policy beyond the EU mantra is needed! What Serbia needs is to actually get on with real reforms that it needs for the reason it needs. Reforms not for EU sake not as a goal to EU rather because they are needed and will progress in Serbia's interest. Stop focusing on EU goal and do whats right for Serbia because its the right thing to do and Vucic will have unity!

@Peggy

Unlike the organ harvesting allegation, which remains just that, an allegation, Srebrenica is proven fact, just like Serbia producing the second number of war criminals after Nazi is a proven fact

Unlike the organ harvesting allegation, which remains just that, an allegation, Srebrenica is proven fact, just like Serbia producing the second number of war criminals after Nazi is a proven fact
(Nikolle, 18 June 2015 11:16)
===========================
It's a political stunt. Picking which bits to inflate and which bits to discard is not proof of anything except the west's propaganda machine going into overdrive.
The west is very biased right now. When they turn on you, and they will, will you give them just as much credibility as you do now.

Joni

Hellen is Greece?
Grand Britain is England?
Deutschland is Germany?
Hrvatska is Croatia?

None of them is so evident for me. At least I have questions about them all. As I already said first nations started to form only in 17 century while their greater part was formed much in 18-20 centuries. Say in 19 century most peoples in Central Asia or Azerbaijan would tell you that they were Tatars. It was in 20 century when nations like Uzbeks, Turkmens, Kazakhs, Kirgiz, Azeris were formed while Tatar meant only that you are a non-Orthodox. Same in Africa and America. History of the mankind is much shorter than they expose it. Before the 17 century those inside the city walls were one people regardless of the languages that they spoke. Many peoples were attached to their current names only in 17-18 centuries when Scaliger history was imposed. With zero proof he said that Jerusalem was in Palestine, that Jesus was born 2015 years ago, that that Israel was inside Palestine, that Mohammad made his Hijra 622 years after Christ, that Israelites and Jews were the same people ect. Besides many peoples got their current names after their military leaders or geographical places. Words “Russian” and “Russia” were first used in 1653 as well as Mongolo-Tatars. Word Holocaust together with the idea first appeared in America 9 years after WW2. ect.

@ rrote ( a.g.a.i.n )
Exactly ! It will be quite natural if they ask for a help and won’t be a surprise when Russia renders it.

"Quite Natural" - will be if you condemn the crimes made by Serbs and not try to cover their crimes.
Serbia decide to start the war, while she decide that the Jugoslavian Army must "infringe" the borders of Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Autonomous Province of Kosovo, for WHAT? Which was the purpose of Serbia, please???
There wasn't any single Sloven, Kroat, Bosnian, Albanian who tried to infringe the Serbian borders. So, you can't blame any Slo, Kro, Bosn or Alb who was in it's own territory when Serbian military go to attack them. Simple, no??
But, as much as you ( Russia ) express oneself that you are ready to "support" Serbian actions - just that Serbia choose to sit only in your "chair" ( no matter if those actions were criminal actions against innocents organized by Serbian state ) - I do not discuss anymore.
The only time when Russia was a great country was in the WWII.
That Russia did not exist anymore. Sorry!
* Do you feel bad or guilty for the millions of Germans who died from your bombardments?
Or you feel more bad and guilty for the millions of innocent that they killed?
I will ask you the same for Serbs! But, as usually you have two standarts!

@nikolleamatullah "Defence of the criminal, I'm not the only one who stole, others stole too. By the logic of the heavenly morons, Germany should seek a review of the Nuremburg trials, the persecution of the Germans has gone on for far too long" - yes indeed - since SU and the Western allies war crimes were not tried there or later it was a political court, like icty is - and many others. and alleged 8000 KIA pusslims was by no mean a genocide - as even Zuroff -who accuses my country of holocaust - says. but what albanian nazis know about that, u r too occupied with ur fairytales of illyrians and so on..what a buch of pathetic people! greetings from Israel where I currently serve and look how ur co-religionsists killing each other en masse on the othe side of the border.

There was no way to tell who dumped it there. And everything destroyed was photographed and catalogued. So no actual evidence was destroyed. Also it was reported by the Hague that the orders to destroy this material came from Carla herself. But nothing physical they had gathered was PROOF that organ harvesting took place.
(At least tell the whole story, 19 June 2015 16:48)
-------------------------------------------------
I see. So if you wanted to run DNA tests now you can use the photograph or a catalogue. There is always a chance that the items would need to be re-examined but they saw fit to destroy it so evidence was destroyed.
If there was no proof that organ harvesting took place why would Carla ruin her reputation now to talk about it? She was in a perfect position to see if any coverup took place and there could be very good reasons why she didn't speak out before. Corruption runs in very high places. Some of the very top British politicians are suspected of some very nasty crimes but investigation into them is forbidden.

@the actual truth

Whatever indictmenet is issued against the sons of Skenderbeg as you so call Albanians, not one of them will be accused of having even attempted anything like Srebrenica and if you think they will then you're lying to yourself.
=============================
You're the one lying to yourself. If you don't think that organ harvesting is a lie then you are also in deep denial and will have one helluva shock one day.
Serbs have suffered just as much as the others becaue in a civil war everyone is the agressor and everyone is the victim but turning into ghouls and profiting from such a beastly business is on another level altogether which only Albanians have managed to get to. So don't think yourself superior to us in any way.

Political stunt? This is just you not having a retort to anything and dabbling in conspiracies. What is a political stunt? Srebrenica? No Peggy, that is proven fact, its the organ thing that hasn't got anything going for it

You're in Israel now exKfor? Is this you seeking atonment for having helped Albanians cede from Serbia? Be careful over there, before you told us that you see visions, you might become afflicted with the Jerusalem syndrom

The question is if the shqiptarët are Albanians ?

The same question is?

Hellen is Greece?
Grand Britain is England?
Deutschland is Germany?
Hrvatska is Croatia?

ETC...ETC..ETC...

I now see that you genuienly believe the nonsense that you just wrote. Its not a case of you being mislwd, its a case of you being stupid

I am trying to figure out rote if you're being stupid on purpose or if you honestly believe the rubbish you just wrote. That Skenderbeg was Russian not one credible historian has ever claimed. Im curios to know what historical garbage you will tell us next

You're so enlightned rote, sometimes I wonder if you could possibly be Einstein reincarnated. So you did Skenderberg last week, which historical figure will you educate us on next week?

Peggy please provide us atleast one proven Serb victim of an organ snatching .

I doubt it because it does not exist.

Or are you missing an organ (brain) that we should know about?

(rote, 18 June 2015 19:58)
Sorry, but you seems my grandfather after drinking some cups of rakia..
Reading to much informations in internet must confuse you to much my dear, especially when you have any knowledge about the history of one country...
But by the way, what do you know about Albanians names?
I show you same to common names in today Albania.
- Vesa ( dew ), Vera ( like wine ), Vjosa, Vojsava, Mara, Mamica, Josefina, (J)Helena, Angela-ina etc..
- Gjergj, Gjon, Gjin, Pal, Mark, Vlash, Kostandin, etc.etc.
Those names are to to common in today Albania, dear rote ( especially in Catholics ).
- Citty like,
Kruja, Velipoja, Tropoja, Pogradec, Dibra etc, etc.(
My dear rote, to understand better and not be confused you should have a "sound" knowledge about the Albanians names, culture and especially language.
If not some day you will confuse the Rome city, with the capital of Roms.
Cheers!

...Same about your Scanderbeg who most likely was Russian...
@rote,
What are you smoking mate?
Even Serbs say he was half Albanian half Serb,while you are saying he is Russian?
Wake up man!

(rote, 19 June 2015 10:23)

My grandfather was a little child at time dear rote, and he escape alive by chance, while his mother and father died trying to protect him.
His brother was a partisan courier and he was killed by Germans, and even this 5 may, like all the years we were in the "Martyrs of Nation" Cemetery memorial to lead flowers on his grave.
http://www.memorialmuseums.org/eng/staettens/view/1262/Memorial-to-the-Victims-of-the-Wehrmacht-Massacre-of-Borov%C3%AB#

And about Gjergj Kastrioti Skanderbeg - be sure that he was an Albanian, till today live "Kastrioti" families in Albania.

I don't have the evidence but Hague did and got rid of it. There is a witness to that and her name is Carla.
It's so easy for you to demand evidence from me knowing full well that evidence has to be gathered again which is difficult.
Maybe you should ask why Carla would lie about something like this. Before you say anything please don't start with Serbia paid her to say lies. How ridiculous.
(Peggy, 19 June 2015 13:33
If you review the reports what evidence gathered was biological waste such as gauze, syringes, medical vials and tubing gathered from a dumpsite several kilometers from the "yellow house" none of it was linked to any person or party. There was no way to tell who dumped it there. And everything destroyed was photographed and catalogued. So no actual evidence was destroyed. Also it was reported by the Hague that the orders to destroy this material came from Carla herself. But nothing physical they had gathered was PROOF that organ harvesting took place.

(Peggy, 22 June 2015 03:54)
Well Peggy using the photograph or catalogue would be just as effective as any DNA test on medical wastes that sit on a trash site exposed to wind, rain, snow and vermin for years. It would be so contaminated and degraded that for forensics it is useless.
Carla's intent was to sell a book, it was to make money on what she did at the ICTY. She never said that organ harvesting did take place but said there were rumors of it and that she was told that investigations had not yielded results and to not waste anymore time on it. Plus if you had DNA evidence you would have to have a victim to compare the DNA to and that no one has come up with.
I doubt she ever thought the Serbs would pick up on it and create such a media campaign.
No one will ever be able to convince you and your lot that it did not happen as you will always hope it did, even though you have no actual evidence. You cling to the hope that this would prove to the world that the Albanians somehow deserved the cruel and horrendous acts inflicted upon them by the Milosevic regime.