"Clashes in Macedonia suit Russia and Serbia"

I guess I can see the point but it suits the Americans more trying to stop Turkish stream.
Everyone knows about Albanian behaviour and ambitions. They make no secret of it. So on balance suits albs and their masters in Langley more.

How does this 'suit' Serbia and Russia? Both are hoping to have a gas pipeline that goes through Macedonia. With political unrest in that region it probably won't happen. Seems that whenever our neighbours have problems it's just easier to blame someone else.

Albanians lying their as..s of. Start a conflict and blame someone else. Just like what happend in Kosovo. This time they are not taken seriously because nobody thinks they have the capability to wage a war against Macedonia, much less Serbia. I always knew the conflict would return between macedonians and albanians. Macedonia thought they saved the split of their own country if they recognize Kosovo. What Macedonia did when recognizing Kosovo was to recognize the greater Albania project.

Stabbing Serbia in the back over Kosovo Macedonia now gets what it deserves. What's even more amazing is that Macedonia is involved in a name controversy with Greece which is preventing Macedonia from joining Nato. Its more difficult for talialbanians to terrorize people and demand a part of a neighbours land if the country in question is a Nato member. Macedonia will end up nameless, shameless and smaller the Luxenburg.

Rote
On close reading,your posting is so ridiculous that I feel silly for even dignifying it with an answer.However I've always had a bit of a soft spot for truly absurd revisions of history proposed by historiography's greatest charlatans-inspired by their conscious desire to exaggerate the non-existent achievements of their own ethnic group by putting scorn on the achievements of others.Despite your obvious nonsense and despite of how annoying is to discuss their proponents with you I think it's fun to dip for a laugh and to serve as a reminder of how low can people can reach in making things up for their nationalist agenda.

Fomenko's pseudoscience is the most nonsensical rewriting of world history based on made up lies.Indeed ,there were no ancient Greece,China,Rome,Egypt,Iran and all other ancient entities,there were no middle Ages and early modern history are the same events with the same people with different names.The Ottoman emperor Suleiman was in fact Solomon(not even D Icke could claim that)and Palestine was in fact Western Germany.
Yes, that;s right - here we really get down to it. Russia used to pretty much rule the world. Mongols and Tartars - a myth - they were all part of Greater Russia. Turks? Also Russians. Basically, Russia was the most powerful and most important country in the whole world for the whole of recorded history, until some nasty Germans put a foreign dynasty in power and lied about it all.

I think it's you that needs all the sympathy.

MikeC

“Macedonia will end up nameless, shameless”

I feel sympathy for the Greeks but 100% of their “ancient” history was written in 18-20 centuries. 2-3 times they episodically appeared and vanished for centuries in the previous 2000 years. In between the Greeks even were not dying because they left no grave stones as well. They even “stopped” to make coins so that their own most famous historian Gennady complained that he could merely find any evidence of the Athens. Greek history was supplementary to that of the Rome’s though both are fakes. This is why J.Scaliger and later D.Petavius paid more attention to Rome. All because they needed an explanation to the newly created (on bones of the Great Horde) European states.

Greek history was composed only in 19 century when some of the Ottoman lands had been set free by the Russians. It was only then that the Ottoman Castles were turned into Olympic constructions and evidence about the Greek scientist and great warriors was “found”. In fact Iskander Ul Ahad was just one of the names of Tamerlane and if you compare the two empires you will find that they seized the same lands. Meanwhile Tamerlane was a real Slav Cossack Voevoda who seized power in the Golden Horde and whose capitol was not in Samarkand but somewhere on the Balkans most likely in Tiraspol or Tirana. So I disagree that Macedonia is nameless but I agree that they were shameless as well as stupid about Serbia.

let´s give it some time, while the conditions change... Macedonia could ( in the long run ) get interested in some security that keeps a potential way for pipelines safe.
that´s where those could step in, who would have some profit of a gas-pipeline through Macedonia.

well, let´s just see what future brings.

He's right. ISIS has done more good things than Russia and Serbia will ever do.

B92 THANKS FOR YOUR PATIENCE !

Leonidas below are the titles of the Russian Khan/Veliki Kniaz in 1530 :


БОЖІЕЮ МІЛОСТІЮ; Велікіи Царь и Государь Всеа Россіи, Велікіи Князь Владімерскіи, Московскіи, Новогородскіи, Псковскіи, Смоленскіи, Тферскіи, Югорскіи, Пермскіи, Вятскіи, Булгарскіи, и протчая: Государь и Велікіи Князь Новаграда Ніжнія земли и Черніговскіи, Резанскіи, Вологодскіи, Ржевскіи; Ростовскіи, Ярославскіи, Бѣлоезерскіи, Удорскіи, Обдорскіи, Кондіискіи, и протчая:


According to the old Russian maps that survived I have to comment:

1 / “Пермскіи” meant Prussia (= Permskaya Russia) and included also Poland, other parts of Germany and Northr of Italy.
2 / “ Булгарскіи” meant all of the Balkans including Greece.
3/ “Югорскіи” = Hungarian
4/ “Черніговскіи” = the Ottoman Empire

ect.

As you can see traditional Russian lands and what is “abroad” today were written mixed because they made no difference for the Russian Khan. By the way the idea of the Mongolo-Tatar invasion first came to the Romanovs in 1653 … it was an internal issue of the Russians when they started to impose us the idea. I think that between 1613 and 1775 Russia was a colony of Germany/Sweden/Poland and Britain. Before that between 1329 and 1584 Europe had been a Russian colony. France, Spain , Portugal and especially the Cathars remained devoted to the Empire for decades.

Leonidas

You have my LIKE coz this is the first time that you at least tried to explain what is wrong in my comment. And by the way it’s not everything that I agree with Fomenko’s school especially when it comes to how it was indeed. ..... http://www.chronologia.org/en/how_it_was/index.html ... But concerning the false history of J.Scaliger and D.Petavius I back them or 99%. If you disagree please tell me :

1/ How could it be that someone Gomer "made" his poems 700 years after the events that he described and what sources did he use ? How could it be that that his poems were first written down 500-600 years after he had died i/e/ 1200 years after the Troy war? As he was blind how could it be that for centuries the poems were learned by heart and told to one another ? Why for so long nobody wrote the poems down?

2/ 130 years now that the Etruscan manuscripts were translated by a Pole but the West remains deaf and blind about them. Is it because they were Slavs ?

3/ What you thing about Mauro Orbini’s book immediately indicted by Vatican ?

4/ What you think about Gerhard Merkator’s Atlas ? ……. http://www.chronologia.org/rare/mercator/index.html pdf

5/ Why do you think Isaak Newton and other scientist of 17-19 centuries just laughed at the Scaliger-Petavius history ?

6/ How could it be that all the artifacts of ancient Greece appeared in the 19-20 centuries?


Please give direct answers and put your questions. !

Leonidas

A native of Hvar, Dominican Vinko Pribojević, humanist and historian, was the first to express the idea of unity of all Slavs in his work “De origine successibusque Slavorum,” Venice 1532. The work was later translated into Italian and published in Venice in 1595. The first part of Pribojević’s work is devoted to the origin and fame of the Slavs, while the second part gives a short geographic description and history of Dalmatia. The third part is devoted to his native island of Hvar. He delineates its glorious past, its economic and cultural importance and the scientific and military contributions of his countrymen. Pribojević’s ideas, although influenced by Polish historiography, which believed that the cradle of Slavs was in Illyricum, are important because he was the first among the South Slavs who expressed the idea about the great Slavic community of nations. He is considered to be a forerunner of the pan-Slavic idea and the later Illyrian Movement. His work was a source for the history written later by Mavro Orbini.
• Della origine et successi de gli Slaui (In Venetia: presso Aldo, 1595)

http://www.library.yale.edu/slavic/croatia/history/history.html

Leonidas

1/ They tell us that the Troy War happened 3200-3300 years ago and they say that Gomer who lived 2600-2700 years ago was the first and in fact the only source of information and that was his two poems were first written on papyrus 2000 years ago. Only very naïve people can believe in such a BS but even if so how could they save the information? You must know that papyrus can survive for 200 years in Europe’s climate and 300 years in Egypt. So it could not be papyrus. Pergament lives longer but it was too expensive to write such big fairy tales. This is why all ancient (600-900 year old) documents were written like in a spy code. Your name for instance would look like LND or LNDS just to save place. How could one write a poem on such an expensive material and why the poem was obtained only in the 17 century when most of the fake “copies of the copies appeared” ? Do you know that there are 6 copies of the Iliad and that they all differ very much ? Where’s the original of the poem ? Same with Odyssey ! There are hundreds of other questions like the longest list of the participants to the Troy war – 52 states and cities! Also why many sources like the Russian Wikipedia show some of the commanders as Christians ? What arms did they fight 1600 years before iron ore was first melt ? Ect.ect.

Leonidas

2/ Etruski = Russki and this is why their manuscripts were all translated from old Slav language close to old Russian. It means that the Roman Empire was based on the Slav culture. And this is why old Latin is so close to the Church Slav language. But Slavs appeared on the Apennines only in the 14 century so there was no any Roman Empire here before. Also read about Karl the Great the founder of Rome. You will be surprised of how little do they know about him. Meanwhile biography is the main tool that gives you state power. But they even fail to say when Karl was born, who were his parents, what language he spoke, where was his home town, where from he ruled Europe ect. All because he lived in Vladimir where the Europeans had no access. How can a serious man talk about such an Empire ? Besides as I already said there are no original documents proving the existence of Rome before 14 century. Always they offer you some copies of the copies. If not please tell me of such an original, how old is it and when and how was obtained. I’ll be very surprised. As well as if you can explain why on Trajan Column in the center of Rome there’s not a single writing like on other Roman columns and monuments ? Why in many pictures here there are Muslim Half Moon symbols ? I know the answers and you can guess them too if you stop sticking to the false version of history that became dominant only in the late 17 century.

Rote

As I did say before , Homer lived approximately in the year 1250bc which according to archaeologists was the time the Trojan events took place.As The works of Homer were mentioned by later Greek historians Herodotus and Plato in his "republic" works therefore your argument that they appear 1700 years later is wrong.As for papyrus lasting 200 years such a claim again is not correct.For example the Norwegian Schøyen papyrus Collection of classical Greece still survives and is reputed to be from the 6th century bc.The Turin's papyrus map of ancient Egypt was drawn about 1160 BC for Ramesses IV's expedition to the Wadi Hammamat in the Eastern Desert and still exhibited at the museum in Turin.

We can stay here arguing our points of view but the fact remains that history is based on archaeology and historiography not wishful thinking.Archaeologists may have imposed their own views about ancient buildings and scholars of ancient texts may have argued how they think surviving relics should be completed ,reconstructed and interpreted.But unless one becomes time-traveller and re-visits the past big questions will always remain.The search for an objective way of studying past human societies is still an on-going process and with advances in technology will get better.

Another point i want to raise with you is your perceptions of the Ottomans who by the way kept a detailed historical log on their rule which is totally alien to your arguments.Why would the Ottomans lie?

“Orbin believed that the Slavs hailed from the Goths in Scandinavia.[5] He also claimed that the Illyrians spoke Slavic.[6] He supported Pribojević's view that Alexander the Great and the Macedonians were Slavs.”
(rote, 18 May 2015 16:12)

He did,didn't he? Well he's a complete idiot.Had he visited Philip's grave in Vergina in Macedonia Greece and read the inscriptions on is grave all in Greek he wouldn't say such nonsense. When the Slavic populations arrived in the Balkans in the 6th c. AD, there were no Macedonians around to merge with but only Greek-speaking (and to a much lesser extent Latin-speaking) Christian populations .Ancient Macedonians spoke a Greek dialect and had *consciously* adopted themselves with the Athenian-based classical Greek culture.There are too numerous to count documents from ancient times that testify to the Greekness of the Macedonians, most of them from the Macedonians themselves. Even the Persians and Egyptians identified them as Greeks as recorded in ancient documents.You see rote history is to a large extent based on archaeology-and Greeks have archaeology in abundance- and not on conspiratorial farting.

Why nobody including Russia , the Ottomans, Britain, Germany, France ect. minded the treaty and why even 4 Bullas valid for 500 years were released by Vatican ? For me it’s a very simple task because I do not use Scaliger/Petavius version. But how can you explain it ?
(rote,

I am not going to dwell on the reasons the Pope Alexander issued his bull in favour of Spain but going back to your previous postings you insinuated the Ottomans were only around since 1700 AD. But since the papal Bull was issued in 1493 AD the Ottomans were not around. It seems to me that you're definitely confused.

I don’t mean that Balkan people are of Russian origin. Like most of us they are a cocktails of the Russians (R1a), the Goths/Alanians/Scythians (R1b), Europeans (I1+I2) , E1b1 +J2 (Semites) and G2 (Caucasians). Yes most of them came from Russia during migration period in Scaliger history = during the Great Horde in Fomenko’s. ……… http://haplogroup.narod.ru/russ.html

What you say about the Ottomans I agree if only you mean the last 150 years of their rule. It was quite natural for a state where people of Turk/Tatar origin gained more and more power. 200 years ago they made some 5-10% of the empire and had little access to the state power.

Our old churches and their old mosques have almost the same architecture. They are made of alike - central building with a symbol on the top and a chapel or minaret standing near. The function of the chapel and minaret is the same – to call for the prayer. One uses the bell while the other a muaeddin ect. Also don’t forget that Mohammad first prayed towards Jerusalem but in the end he turned towards Mecca. I think that it’s a lie to explain why the old mosques have entrances on the western side. We now know why – because initially those were the churches …

Leonidas several years ago I was shocked much more than you are now. The more I learned the deeper was my depression. Especially when it came to Jerusalem events and Jesus. So best if you decide now if you are ready to go further or you stop it here

Rote

1.The descriptions of the events of the Trojan War are from a variety of sources, and not a single text But the most important literary sources are the two epic poems are Homer’s Iliad and Odyssey. There’s speculation as to when Homer was born and part of the problem is that Homer lived before a chronological dating system was in place .Herodotus who was born in 850bc maintained that Homer was born 400 before him which was roughly the time of the Trojan War. Herodotus mentions both the Iliad and the Odyssey as works of Homer therefore his poems were not made 700 years later as you suggest.

2.These manuscripts contained only few letters of alphabet and nothing else of any value.
3. I’ve never heard of him.
4 I don’t know much about Mercantor’s atlas but I gather it questions the validity of historical narrative of Portuguese and Spanish explorers. However,if you ever happen to visit places as far as San Paolo in Brazil or Macau in China and you see the streets named after the explorers or listen to people speaking Portuguese then you’ll place less value on Mercanor’s map.Language is part of one's identity.
5.Byzantine Christians were the biggest destroyers and looters of pagan ancient Greece.Constantinople’s water supply system is decorated with marble columns taken from ancient buildings in Greece.Italian ,French ,British and German museums have been displaying ancient Greek artifacts for hundreds of years.

I think it's you that needs all the sympathy.
(Leonidas, 16 May 2015 22:27)

Lenoniday, in case you don't know: There's history, and there's 'Russian history', like there is truth, and there is 'Russian truth', like there is information, and there is 'Russian information' (as broadcast by RT).

So you can feel sympathy for people who like to live in their own world. I wouldn't do that, I only feel pity for those victims of propagand and misinformation.

But another thing: Why can terrorists leaders responsible for several people being killed appear on Kosovo TV? Why aren't they arrested immediately? And why do Kosovo terrorist plan attacks when they know it only suits their 'enemies' like Russian and Serbia? Confusing.

Leonidas

3/ Mauro Orbini was a very famous and really outstanding Dalmatian monk who wrote a detailed history of almost all peoples known in Europe of the 16 century. Yes he stressed at the Slavs because they still ruled the world at that time and he paid less attention to the rest. It’s an amazing book and to write it he used 246 other books most of which were burnt in the fires if Inquisition during Reneissance Period. His book was immediately forbidden by Vatican because it’s second edition came for 1595 when the Great Horde was already started to disintegrit. See on how few languages information is available in Wikipedia !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mavro_Orbini

don’t miss :

“Orbin believed that the Slavs hailed from the Goths in Scandinavia.[5] He also claimed that the Illyrians spoke Slavic.[6] He supported Pribojević's view that Alexander the Great and the Macedonians were Slavs.”

Leonidas

5/ Gerardus Mercator is the founder of the modern cartography. He was a Dutch but he worked in Veliki Novgorod. One could obtain so much information only when living in the capitol of the world. All other old maps that survived including that of Admiral Piri Reis were made on Mercator’s basis. On those maps you will find all the parts of the Great Empire that the Slavs inherited from Byzantie. Greeks were part of the Empire though half of the lands in current Greece were inhabited by the Slavs.

As for Brazil see ... https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter_caetera ... to understand why Brazil speaks Portugese now. See also Treaty of Tordesillas and try to explain somehow how smal Portugal and one of the Spanish provinces could divide the whole world ? Why nobody including Russia , the Ottomans, Britain, Germany, France ect. minded the treaty and why even 4 Bullas valid for 500 years were released by Vatican ? For me it’s a very simple task because I do not use Scaliger/Petavius version. But how can you explain it ?

I like the way we talk now so please don’t be back to general theories and keep on talking concrete things. Then I have a chance to reach you. I wasn’t satisfied with your last respond about Homer and Trojan War. Tomorrow I’ll take time to explain why.

1/ As for the Ottomans you should know that for me Turks and Ottomans are very different. The Empire was formed on the Golden Horde basis while main and ruling pert of the Horde was always the White Horde. Ottomans were ruled by the same Rurik Vasilis family as the White Horde. They had Greek blood in them and they often married the Paleologs or the Komnins. In the 14-th century they simply were cousins. They spoke old Russian and their army was composed of the Russian Cossacks, Caucasians, Tatar speaking people from Volga region, Balkan Slavs and proto-Albanians who according to Orbini were also Slavs. I can find a link of the famous Diary of a Russian Yanichar Konstantin with detailed description of how Constantinople was seized in 1453 then the Angels (bastards) flew to Vatican and started to demonize the Ottomans. They drank wine and vodka after the victory and Mehmet II sent to Veliki Novgorod the happy news together with lots of golden gifts. Because before the 17-th century it was an Orthodox Christian Empire. Quite opposite to the Turk Empire that to my mind started in 1826 when the Tatars massacred the Slav Yanichars. But before that the Empire was quite different from what we are told now.

I'll be back.

LONG LIVE B92 MODERATOR !

2/ In 19 century they started first massacres of the Greeks and the Armenians + worsened the taxes for the Christians from 10 to 30%. So they became the Ottomans we all know now. But even in the 18-th century they still were very different. It was the 17-th century that Islam separated from Orthodox Christianity. Before that they existed as a legal sect praying in our churches. After the final split with the White Horde in 1613 the Ottomans needed a religion of their own + a history of their own. Other parts of the former Empire were too far to help them in their permanent wars against Europe united Moscovia. Their only ally was the Crimean Girey Khans who belonged to one of the branches of the Ruriks. Please mind that in Europe they fought the Russians, Alanians, Caucasians ect. Because the power here was seized by the former Horde’s governors who became Kings and Barons writing their new history. Goth-Alanian governors in Germany were most active and they made their vassal Romanovs fight the Ottomans 10 severe wars in 17 century ! From the other side Ottomans were attacked by the new Europeans and it lasted 300 years accompanied with a mudding campaign. So the Ottomans too cleaned their history and wrote Quran describing mostly life of Mehmet II but also containing explications from the Bible. Yet their libraries like the Persian ones were not destroyed as it had been in Russia and Europe. So we can expect sensations any time.

BRAVO B92 !!!

Leonidas

PS-1 “in 1493 AD the Ottomans were not around”

Ottoman Empire is like WW2 so it’s hard to say when it started and when finished. Formally I believe that the birth was in 1453 when Constantinople was seized. By the way Constantine I Great was also of Rurik family known in Russia as Dmitry Donskoy and in Turkey as Murad I killed in 1389 on Kosovo Polje. Formal end of the Empire was 1915 but it died part by part since early 18 century.

PS-2 “Philip's grave in Vergina”

If Philip was real father of Alexander he may quite be buried in the Greek Macedonia because as you know many of those places were inhabited by the Slavs. So I can see no contradiction. I found the list of the names of Tamerlane only in the Russian Wikipedia. I mistrust this source but it helps sometimes : «Великий Эмир», Бек, Мирза, Абу Мансур, Абу Фатих, Абу Гази, Сахиб-и Кирани, Хаган, Гете Стани, Султан, Искандар Ул Ахад, Гурган”

The English for Arabian “ Искандар Ул Ахад” is ALEXANDER THE GREAT … He was a high ranking Voevoda from the Urals but he never belonged to the Rurik family so he had to obey the White Horde. Yet he was brave and talented enough to seize almost half the world including India.

PS-3 “Ancient Macedonians spoke a Greek dialect’

This I don’t know. I only can give much evidence that Tamerlane was a Russian Cossack Ataman (Voevoda) from Yaik (now Ural) River. Including western sources and his lifetime portraits. I have no idea of the word Macedonia origin but this Slav people most likely appeared here with the Horde. Also I have very poor information about the Greeks. I only know that they were very close to the Ruriks and played important role in the religion life of the Empire. We even call boiled buckwheat as «гречка» Greek porridge. But I also believe that the role of the Greeks ( like the Mongols, Turks, Chinese, Jews, Germans, French, Brits, Aras ect.) in the history was much smaller than they say. I have no idea where from the Greeks appeared after the fall of the Horde and if they are the same with the Ancient (in Alexandria) and Byzantie Romes. Don’t forget that before 17 century there were no nations in the current meaning. Those inside the city walls were one nation no matter what languages they spoke. Your happlogroups say that ( like the Ashkenazy ) you are close to the Ottoman and some of the Syrian Jews. By the way Fomenko says that during the Horde the Jews were formed as a professional sect of finansists. Fomenko says that the oldest is the medieval Greek while the ancient language he says is closer to the modern one. This I can't judge.

“Homer lived approximately in the year 1250bc”

Even if so my suspicions are even bigger because now it makes total 1500-1700 years before the two poems were first written down. How could they survive unchanged through for such a period full of wars and epidemics ? Another question is that the poems give detailed description of the so called Goth War and the real Crusaders Wars of the 12-13 centuries. Yes the names and the places are different but the events as well as the row of the events are almost the same.

Also the papyrus issue does not depend on what you saw in a Museum. Without 20 century technologies it can live 150-200 years in Europe and 150-300 years in the Middle East. Then they turn into dust.

For your information most of the museums are full of fake artifacts. Say all of the knight body ammunition is made of sheet iron while this technology appeared only in the 16-17 centuries. Besides museums do not advertise that some of the exponents are copies.

In Kremlin Oruzheinaya Palata they expose the arms, shields and helmets of the Russian Tsars like Ivan Grozny and they install them the way the visitors cannot see Arabian worlds about … Allah. Fomenko says it's quite normal as there was no split between the religions yet.

By the way Salam Aleikum (Peace to you) was the way Jesus greated all.

Rote

It's extremely difficult,if not impossible ,to communicate with you because you've made up your mind a long time ago and you continue to see world conspiracies on the manner world history has been written.Lets leave aside the ancients and concentrate on the period which you claim was dominated by the so called "great horde".If you read Turkish Historians of the Ottoman era the "great horde" doesn't feature anywhere.
Halil Inalcik “The middle east and the Balkans under the Ottoman empire essays on economy and society” by using the Ottoman recorded history states the Balkans were subjected to a systematic settlement of Turkic people after the conquest.“Such places as Serez, Plovdiv, Babadag, Elbasan, Sarajevo, Silistre and Skopje had been rearranged by the uc-begis in such a way to be new Turkish cities“.He then proceeds to give a detailed breakdown of muslim and non-muslim populations in those areas for the next 100 years.The point I am trying to make is that since you claim all the Balkan people have Russian ancestry I am sure you can produce some form of official recorded history from the "great horde" to back your claims up and probably to refute the Ottoman claims.

He's right. ISIS has done more good things than Russia and Serbia will ever do.

Albanians lying their as..s of. Start a conflict and blame someone else. Just like what happend in Kosovo. This time they are not taken seriously because nobody thinks they have the capability to wage a war against Macedonia, much less Serbia. I always knew the conflict would return between macedonians and albanians. Macedonia thought they saved the split of their own country if they recognize Kosovo. What Macedonia did when recognizing Kosovo was to recognize the greater Albania project.

How does this 'suit' Serbia and Russia? Both are hoping to have a gas pipeline that goes through Macedonia. With political unrest in that region it probably won't happen. Seems that whenever our neighbours have problems it's just easier to blame someone else.

MikeC

“Macedonia will end up nameless, shameless”

I feel sympathy for the Greeks but 100% of their “ancient” history was written in 18-20 centuries. 2-3 times they episodically appeared and vanished for centuries in the previous 2000 years. In between the Greeks even were not dying because they left no grave stones as well. They even “stopped” to make coins so that their own most famous historian Gennady complained that he could merely find any evidence of the Athens. Greek history was supplementary to that of the Rome’s though both are fakes. This is why J.Scaliger and later D.Petavius paid more attention to Rome. All because they needed an explanation to the newly created (on bones of the Great Horde) European states.

Greek history was composed only in 19 century when some of the Ottoman lands had been set free by the Russians. It was only then that the Ottoman Castles were turned into Olympic constructions and evidence about the Greek scientist and great warriors was “found”. In fact Iskander Ul Ahad was just one of the names of Tamerlane and if you compare the two empires you will find that they seized the same lands. Meanwhile Tamerlane was a real Slav Cossack Voevoda who seized power in the Golden Horde and whose capitol was not in Samarkand but somewhere on the Balkans most likely in Tiraspol or Tirana. So I disagree that Macedonia is nameless but I agree that they were shameless as well as stupid about Serbia.

I guess I can see the point but it suits the Americans more trying to stop Turkish stream.
Everyone knows about Albanian behaviour and ambitions. They make no secret of it. So on balance suits albs and their masters in Langley more.

Stabbing Serbia in the back over Kosovo Macedonia now gets what it deserves. What's even more amazing is that Macedonia is involved in a name controversy with Greece which is preventing Macedonia from joining Nato. Its more difficult for talialbanians to terrorize people and demand a part of a neighbours land if the country in question is a Nato member. Macedonia will end up nameless, shameless and smaller the Luxenburg.

let´s give it some time, while the conditions change... Macedonia could ( in the long run ) get interested in some security that keeps a potential way for pipelines safe.
that´s where those could step in, who would have some profit of a gas-pipeline through Macedonia.

well, let´s just see what future brings.

Leonidas

You have my LIKE coz this is the first time that you at least tried to explain what is wrong in my comment. And by the way it’s not everything that I agree with Fomenko’s school especially when it comes to how it was indeed. ..... http://www.chronologia.org/en/how_it_was/index.html ... But concerning the false history of J.Scaliger and D.Petavius I back them or 99%. If you disagree please tell me :

1/ How could it be that someone Gomer "made" his poems 700 years after the events that he described and what sources did he use ? How could it be that that his poems were first written down 500-600 years after he had died i/e/ 1200 years after the Troy war? As he was blind how could it be that for centuries the poems were learned by heart and told to one another ? Why for so long nobody wrote the poems down?

2/ 130 years now that the Etruscan manuscripts were translated by a Pole but the West remains deaf and blind about them. Is it because they were Slavs ?

3/ What you thing about Mauro Orbini’s book immediately indicted by Vatican ?

4/ What you think about Gerhard Merkator’s Atlas ? ……. http://www.chronologia.org/rare/mercator/index.html pdf

5/ Why do you think Isaak Newton and other scientist of 17-19 centuries just laughed at the Scaliger-Petavius history ?

6/ How could it be that all the artifacts of ancient Greece appeared in the 19-20 centuries?


Please give direct answers and put your questions. !

I think it's you that needs all the sympathy.
(Leonidas, 16 May 2015 22:27)

Lenoniday, in case you don't know: There's history, and there's 'Russian history', like there is truth, and there is 'Russian truth', like there is information, and there is 'Russian information' (as broadcast by RT).

So you can feel sympathy for people who like to live in their own world. I wouldn't do that, I only feel pity for those victims of propagand and misinformation.

But another thing: Why can terrorists leaders responsible for several people being killed appear on Kosovo TV? Why aren't they arrested immediately? And why do Kosovo terrorist plan attacks when they know it only suits their 'enemies' like Russian and Serbia? Confusing.

Rote
On close reading,your posting is so ridiculous that I feel silly for even dignifying it with an answer.However I've always had a bit of a soft spot for truly absurd revisions of history proposed by historiography's greatest charlatans-inspired by their conscious desire to exaggerate the non-existent achievements of their own ethnic group by putting scorn on the achievements of others.Despite your obvious nonsense and despite of how annoying is to discuss their proponents with you I think it's fun to dip for a laugh and to serve as a reminder of how low can people can reach in making things up for their nationalist agenda.

Fomenko's pseudoscience is the most nonsensical rewriting of world history based on made up lies.Indeed ,there were no ancient Greece,China,Rome,Egypt,Iran and all other ancient entities,there were no middle Ages and early modern history are the same events with the same people with different names.The Ottoman emperor Suleiman was in fact Solomon(not even D Icke could claim that)and Palestine was in fact Western Germany.
Yes, that;s right - here we really get down to it. Russia used to pretty much rule the world. Mongols and Tartars - a myth - they were all part of Greater Russia. Turks? Also Russians. Basically, Russia was the most powerful and most important country in the whole world for the whole of recorded history, until some nasty Germans put a foreign dynasty in power and lied about it all.

I think it's you that needs all the sympathy.

Leonidas

A native of Hvar, Dominican Vinko Pribojević, humanist and historian, was the first to express the idea of unity of all Slavs in his work “De origine successibusque Slavorum,” Venice 1532. The work was later translated into Italian and published in Venice in 1595. The first part of Pribojević’s work is devoted to the origin and fame of the Slavs, while the second part gives a short geographic description and history of Dalmatia. The third part is devoted to his native island of Hvar. He delineates its glorious past, its economic and cultural importance and the scientific and military contributions of his countrymen. Pribojević’s ideas, although influenced by Polish historiography, which believed that the cradle of Slavs was in Illyricum, are important because he was the first among the South Slavs who expressed the idea about the great Slavic community of nations. He is considered to be a forerunner of the pan-Slavic idea and the later Illyrian Movement. His work was a source for the history written later by Mavro Orbini.
• Della origine et successi de gli Slaui (In Venetia: presso Aldo, 1595)

http://www.library.yale.edu/slavic/croatia/history/history.html

B92 THANKS FOR YOUR PATIENCE !

Leonidas below are the titles of the Russian Khan/Veliki Kniaz in 1530 :


БОЖІЕЮ МІЛОСТІЮ; Велікіи Царь и Государь Всеа Россіи, Велікіи Князь Владімерскіи, Московскіи, Новогородскіи, Псковскіи, Смоленскіи, Тферскіи, Югорскіи, Пермскіи, Вятскіи, Булгарскіи, и протчая: Государь и Велікіи Князь Новаграда Ніжнія земли и Черніговскіи, Резанскіи, Вологодскіи, Ржевскіи; Ростовскіи, Ярославскіи, Бѣлоезерскіи, Удорскіи, Обдорскіи, Кондіискіи, и протчая:


According to the old Russian maps that survived I have to comment:

1 / “Пермскіи” meant Prussia (= Permskaya Russia) and included also Poland, other parts of Germany and Northr of Italy.
2 / “ Булгарскіи” meant all of the Balkans including Greece.
3/ “Югорскіи” = Hungarian
4/ “Черніговскіи” = the Ottoman Empire

ect.

As you can see traditional Russian lands and what is “abroad” today were written mixed because they made no difference for the Russian Khan. By the way the idea of the Mongolo-Tatar invasion first came to the Romanovs in 1653 … it was an internal issue of the Russians when they started to impose us the idea. I think that between 1613 and 1775 Russia was a colony of Germany/Sweden/Poland and Britain. Before that between 1329 and 1584 Europe had been a Russian colony. France, Spain , Portugal and especially the Cathars remained devoted to the Empire for decades.

Leonidas

1/ They tell us that the Troy War happened 3200-3300 years ago and they say that Gomer who lived 2600-2700 years ago was the first and in fact the only source of information and that was his two poems were first written on papyrus 2000 years ago. Only very naïve people can believe in such a BS but even if so how could they save the information? You must know that papyrus can survive for 200 years in Europe’s climate and 300 years in Egypt. So it could not be papyrus. Pergament lives longer but it was too expensive to write such big fairy tales. This is why all ancient (600-900 year old) documents were written like in a spy code. Your name for instance would look like LND or LNDS just to save place. How could one write a poem on such an expensive material and why the poem was obtained only in the 17 century when most of the fake “copies of the copies appeared” ? Do you know that there are 6 copies of the Iliad and that they all differ very much ? Where’s the original of the poem ? Same with Odyssey ! There are hundreds of other questions like the longest list of the participants to the Troy war – 52 states and cities! Also why many sources like the Russian Wikipedia show some of the commanders as Christians ? What arms did they fight 1600 years before iron ore was first melt ? Ect.ect.

Rote

1.The descriptions of the events of the Trojan War are from a variety of sources, and not a single text But the most important literary sources are the two epic poems are Homer’s Iliad and Odyssey. There’s speculation as to when Homer was born and part of the problem is that Homer lived before a chronological dating system was in place .Herodotus who was born in 850bc maintained that Homer was born 400 before him which was roughly the time of the Trojan War. Herodotus mentions both the Iliad and the Odyssey as works of Homer therefore his poems were not made 700 years later as you suggest.

2.These manuscripts contained only few letters of alphabet and nothing else of any value.
3. I’ve never heard of him.
4 I don’t know much about Mercantor’s atlas but I gather it questions the validity of historical narrative of Portuguese and Spanish explorers. However,if you ever happen to visit places as far as San Paolo in Brazil or Macau in China and you see the streets named after the explorers or listen to people speaking Portuguese then you’ll place less value on Mercanor’s map.Language is part of one's identity.
5.Byzantine Christians were the biggest destroyers and looters of pagan ancient Greece.Constantinople’s water supply system is decorated with marble columns taken from ancient buildings in Greece.Italian ,French ,British and German museums have been displaying ancient Greek artifacts for hundreds of years.

Leonidas

2/ Etruski = Russki and this is why their manuscripts were all translated from old Slav language close to old Russian. It means that the Roman Empire was based on the Slav culture. And this is why old Latin is so close to the Church Slav language. But Slavs appeared on the Apennines only in the 14 century so there was no any Roman Empire here before. Also read about Karl the Great the founder of Rome. You will be surprised of how little do they know about him. Meanwhile biography is the main tool that gives you state power. But they even fail to say when Karl was born, who were his parents, what language he spoke, where was his home town, where from he ruled Europe ect. All because he lived in Vladimir where the Europeans had no access. How can a serious man talk about such an Empire ? Besides as I already said there are no original documents proving the existence of Rome before 14 century. Always they offer you some copies of the copies. If not please tell me of such an original, how old is it and when and how was obtained. I’ll be very surprised. As well as if you can explain why on Trajan Column in the center of Rome there’s not a single writing like on other Roman columns and monuments ? Why in many pictures here there are Muslim Half Moon symbols ? I know the answers and you can guess them too if you stop sticking to the false version of history that became dominant only in the late 17 century.

Leonidas

3/ Mauro Orbini was a very famous and really outstanding Dalmatian monk who wrote a detailed history of almost all peoples known in Europe of the 16 century. Yes he stressed at the Slavs because they still ruled the world at that time and he paid less attention to the rest. It’s an amazing book and to write it he used 246 other books most of which were burnt in the fires if Inquisition during Reneissance Period. His book was immediately forbidden by Vatican because it’s second edition came for 1595 when the Great Horde was already started to disintegrit. See on how few languages information is available in Wikipedia !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mavro_Orbini

don’t miss :

“Orbin believed that the Slavs hailed from the Goths in Scandinavia.[5] He also claimed that the Illyrians spoke Slavic.[6] He supported Pribojević's view that Alexander the Great and the Macedonians were Slavs.”

Rote

As I did say before , Homer lived approximately in the year 1250bc which according to archaeologists was the time the Trojan events took place.As The works of Homer were mentioned by later Greek historians Herodotus and Plato in his "republic" works therefore your argument that they appear 1700 years later is wrong.As for papyrus lasting 200 years such a claim again is not correct.For example the Norwegian Schøyen papyrus Collection of classical Greece still survives and is reputed to be from the 6th century bc.The Turin's papyrus map of ancient Egypt was drawn about 1160 BC for Ramesses IV's expedition to the Wadi Hammamat in the Eastern Desert and still exhibited at the museum in Turin.

We can stay here arguing our points of view but the fact remains that history is based on archaeology and historiography not wishful thinking.Archaeologists may have imposed their own views about ancient buildings and scholars of ancient texts may have argued how they think surviving relics should be completed ,reconstructed and interpreted.But unless one becomes time-traveller and re-visits the past big questions will always remain.The search for an objective way of studying past human societies is still an on-going process and with advances in technology will get better.

Another point i want to raise with you is your perceptions of the Ottomans who by the way kept a detailed historical log on their rule which is totally alien to your arguments.Why would the Ottomans lie?

Leonidas

5/ Gerardus Mercator is the founder of the modern cartography. He was a Dutch but he worked in Veliki Novgorod. One could obtain so much information only when living in the capitol of the world. All other old maps that survived including that of Admiral Piri Reis were made on Mercator’s basis. On those maps you will find all the parts of the Great Empire that the Slavs inherited from Byzantie. Greeks were part of the Empire though half of the lands in current Greece were inhabited by the Slavs.

As for Brazil see ... https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter_caetera ... to understand why Brazil speaks Portugese now. See also Treaty of Tordesillas and try to explain somehow how smal Portugal and one of the Spanish provinces could divide the whole world ? Why nobody including Russia , the Ottomans, Britain, Germany, France ect. minded the treaty and why even 4 Bullas valid for 500 years were released by Vatican ? For me it’s a very simple task because I do not use Scaliger/Petavius version. But how can you explain it ?

“Orbin believed that the Slavs hailed from the Goths in Scandinavia.[5] He also claimed that the Illyrians spoke Slavic.[6] He supported Pribojević's view that Alexander the Great and the Macedonians were Slavs.”
(rote, 18 May 2015 16:12)

He did,didn't he? Well he's a complete idiot.Had he visited Philip's grave in Vergina in Macedonia Greece and read the inscriptions on is grave all in Greek he wouldn't say such nonsense. When the Slavic populations arrived in the Balkans in the 6th c. AD, there were no Macedonians around to merge with but only Greek-speaking (and to a much lesser extent Latin-speaking) Christian populations .Ancient Macedonians spoke a Greek dialect and had *consciously* adopted themselves with the Athenian-based classical Greek culture.There are too numerous to count documents from ancient times that testify to the Greekness of the Macedonians, most of them from the Macedonians themselves. Even the Persians and Egyptians identified them as Greeks as recorded in ancient documents.You see rote history is to a large extent based on archaeology-and Greeks have archaeology in abundance- and not on conspiratorial farting.

Why nobody including Russia , the Ottomans, Britain, Germany, France ect. minded the treaty and why even 4 Bullas valid for 500 years were released by Vatican ? For me it’s a very simple task because I do not use Scaliger/Petavius version. But how can you explain it ?
(rote,

I am not going to dwell on the reasons the Pope Alexander issued his bull in favour of Spain but going back to your previous postings you insinuated the Ottomans were only around since 1700 AD. But since the papal Bull was issued in 1493 AD the Ottomans were not around. It seems to me that you're definitely confused.

I like the way we talk now so please don’t be back to general theories and keep on talking concrete things. Then I have a chance to reach you. I wasn’t satisfied with your last respond about Homer and Trojan War. Tomorrow I’ll take time to explain why.

1/ As for the Ottomans you should know that for me Turks and Ottomans are very different. The Empire was formed on the Golden Horde basis while main and ruling pert of the Horde was always the White Horde. Ottomans were ruled by the same Rurik Vasilis family as the White Horde. They had Greek blood in them and they often married the Paleologs or the Komnins. In the 14-th century they simply were cousins. They spoke old Russian and their army was composed of the Russian Cossacks, Caucasians, Tatar speaking people from Volga region, Balkan Slavs and proto-Albanians who according to Orbini were also Slavs. I can find a link of the famous Diary of a Russian Yanichar Konstantin with detailed description of how Constantinople was seized in 1453 then the Angels (bastards) flew to Vatican and started to demonize the Ottomans. They drank wine and vodka after the victory and Mehmet II sent to Veliki Novgorod the happy news together with lots of golden gifts. Because before the 17-th century it was an Orthodox Christian Empire. Quite opposite to the Turk Empire that to my mind started in 1826 when the Tatars massacred the Slav Yanichars. But before that the Empire was quite different from what we are told now.

I'll be back.

LONG LIVE B92 MODERATOR !

2/ In 19 century they started first massacres of the Greeks and the Armenians + worsened the taxes for the Christians from 10 to 30%. So they became the Ottomans we all know now. But even in the 18-th century they still were very different. It was the 17-th century that Islam separated from Orthodox Christianity. Before that they existed as a legal sect praying in our churches. After the final split with the White Horde in 1613 the Ottomans needed a religion of their own + a history of their own. Other parts of the former Empire were too far to help them in their permanent wars against Europe united Moscovia. Their only ally was the Crimean Girey Khans who belonged to one of the branches of the Ruriks. Please mind that in Europe they fought the Russians, Alanians, Caucasians ect. Because the power here was seized by the former Horde’s governors who became Kings and Barons writing their new history. Goth-Alanian governors in Germany were most active and they made their vassal Romanovs fight the Ottomans 10 severe wars in 17 century ! From the other side Ottomans were attacked by the new Europeans and it lasted 300 years accompanied with a mudding campaign. So the Ottomans too cleaned their history and wrote Quran describing mostly life of Mehmet II but also containing explications from the Bible. Yet their libraries like the Persian ones were not destroyed as it had been in Russia and Europe. So we can expect sensations any time.

BRAVO B92 !!!

Leonidas

PS-1 “in 1493 AD the Ottomans were not around”

Ottoman Empire is like WW2 so it’s hard to say when it started and when finished. Formally I believe that the birth was in 1453 when Constantinople was seized. By the way Constantine I Great was also of Rurik family known in Russia as Dmitry Donskoy and in Turkey as Murad I killed in 1389 on Kosovo Polje. Formal end of the Empire was 1915 but it died part by part since early 18 century.

PS-2 “Philip's grave in Vergina”

If Philip was real father of Alexander he may quite be buried in the Greek Macedonia because as you know many of those places were inhabited by the Slavs. So I can see no contradiction. I found the list of the names of Tamerlane only in the Russian Wikipedia. I mistrust this source but it helps sometimes : «Великий Эмир», Бек, Мирза, Абу Мансур, Абу Фатих, Абу Гази, Сахиб-и Кирани, Хаган, Гете Стани, Султан, Искандар Ул Ахад, Гурган”

The English for Arabian “ Искандар Ул Ахад” is ALEXANDER THE GREAT … He was a high ranking Voevoda from the Urals but he never belonged to the Rurik family so he had to obey the White Horde. Yet he was brave and talented enough to seize almost half the world including India.

PS-3 “Ancient Macedonians spoke a Greek dialect’

This I don’t know. I only can give much evidence that Tamerlane was a Russian Cossack Ataman (Voevoda) from Yaik (now Ural) River. Including western sources and his lifetime portraits. I have no idea of the word Macedonia origin but this Slav people most likely appeared here with the Horde. Also I have very poor information about the Greeks. I only know that they were very close to the Ruriks and played important role in the religion life of the Empire. We even call boiled buckwheat as «гречка» Greek porridge. But I also believe that the role of the Greeks ( like the Mongols, Turks, Chinese, Jews, Germans, French, Brits, Aras ect.) in the history was much smaller than they say. I have no idea where from the Greeks appeared after the fall of the Horde and if they are the same with the Ancient (in Alexandria) and Byzantie Romes. Don’t forget that before 17 century there were no nations in the current meaning. Those inside the city walls were one nation no matter what languages they spoke. Your happlogroups say that ( like the Ashkenazy ) you are close to the Ottoman and some of the Syrian Jews. By the way Fomenko says that during the Horde the Jews were formed as a professional sect of finansists. Fomenko says that the oldest is the medieval Greek while the ancient language he says is closer to the modern one. This I can't judge.

“Homer lived approximately in the year 1250bc”

Even if so my suspicions are even bigger because now it makes total 1500-1700 years before the two poems were first written down. How could they survive unchanged through for such a period full of wars and epidemics ? Another question is that the poems give detailed description of the so called Goth War and the real Crusaders Wars of the 12-13 centuries. Yes the names and the places are different but the events as well as the row of the events are almost the same.

Also the papyrus issue does not depend on what you saw in a Museum. Without 20 century technologies it can live 150-200 years in Europe and 150-300 years in the Middle East. Then they turn into dust.

For your information most of the museums are full of fake artifacts. Say all of the knight body ammunition is made of sheet iron while this technology appeared only in the 16-17 centuries. Besides museums do not advertise that some of the exponents are copies.

In Kremlin Oruzheinaya Palata they expose the arms, shields and helmets of the Russian Tsars like Ivan Grozny and they install them the way the visitors cannot see Arabian worlds about … Allah. Fomenko says it's quite normal as there was no split between the religions yet.

By the way Salam Aleikum (Peace to you) was the way Jesus greated all.

Rote

It's extremely difficult,if not impossible ,to communicate with you because you've made up your mind a long time ago and you continue to see world conspiracies on the manner world history has been written.Lets leave aside the ancients and concentrate on the period which you claim was dominated by the so called "great horde".If you read Turkish Historians of the Ottoman era the "great horde" doesn't feature anywhere.
Halil Inalcik “The middle east and the Balkans under the Ottoman empire essays on economy and society” by using the Ottoman recorded history states the Balkans were subjected to a systematic settlement of Turkic people after the conquest.“Such places as Serez, Plovdiv, Babadag, Elbasan, Sarajevo, Silistre and Skopje had been rearranged by the uc-begis in such a way to be new Turkish cities“.He then proceeds to give a detailed breakdown of muslim and non-muslim populations in those areas for the next 100 years.The point I am trying to make is that since you claim all the Balkan people have Russian ancestry I am sure you can produce some form of official recorded history from the "great horde" to back your claims up and probably to refute the Ottoman claims.

I don’t mean that Balkan people are of Russian origin. Like most of us they are a cocktails of the Russians (R1a), the Goths/Alanians/Scythians (R1b), Europeans (I1+I2) , E1b1 +J2 (Semites) and G2 (Caucasians). Yes most of them came from Russia during migration period in Scaliger history = during the Great Horde in Fomenko’s. ……… http://haplogroup.narod.ru/russ.html

What you say about the Ottomans I agree if only you mean the last 150 years of their rule. It was quite natural for a state where people of Turk/Tatar origin gained more and more power. 200 years ago they made some 5-10% of the empire and had little access to the state power.

Our old churches and their old mosques have almost the same architecture. They are made of alike - central building with a symbol on the top and a chapel or minaret standing near. The function of the chapel and minaret is the same – to call for the prayer. One uses the bell while the other a muaeddin ect. Also don’t forget that Mohammad first prayed towards Jerusalem but in the end he turned towards Mecca. I think that it’s a lie to explain why the old mosques have entrances on the western side. We now know why – because initially those were the churches …

Leonidas several years ago I was shocked much more than you are now. The more I learned the deeper was my depression. Especially when it came to Jerusalem events and Jesus. So best if you decide now if you are ready to go further or you stop it here