"Easy to respond to provocation with provocation"

This is a lot more sensitive than it looks and in many cases, who provoked whom?

A couple of months ago I saw a photo on faceBook that was going around. It was a photo of a group of Serbian teens along with a few older men. They were standing in front of the sign that says Vukovar and in their hand they had a Serbian flag draped across the front of the photo. The caption was "Vukovar is ours"!

when Croatia played in Beograd, Serbs had a banner that read "Vukovar", it was written in cirilica...Serbs also burned our flag that day at the stadium....no big deal, its just another day in Serbia!

we Croats don't have issues with Serbs but we have issues with many of those that continue to use the terms Serb Krajina, Vukovar written in cirilica and many other references that Croatian towns belong to Serbia. who wouldn't feel those are provocations? Serbia has never fully apologized for their aggression against Croatia because they still, to this day, believe they weren't the aggressors.

we will never have peace, not as long as Serbs demand any part of Croatian land be their own...and history has proven Serbs are untrustworthy! If I was living there, I'd allow few Serb families back to Vukovar...they destroyed it and created atrocities, why would any Croats want them living in the same neighborhood...knowing the very people that betrayed you live next door....no way....go home!

From Croatian Canadian: "...we have issues with many of those that continue to use the terms Serb Krajina, Vukovar written in cirilica and many other references that Croatian towns belong to Serbia. who wouldn't feel those are provocations? Serbia has never fully apologized for their aggression against Croatia because they still, to this day, believe they weren't the aggressors."

Let's go back to when Tudjman was elected before any of the hostilities began. Serbs were fired from their jobs, their homes vandalized, streets were named after Ustasha war criminals, many Serbs were killed and I could go on and on. Were these not provocations? Please answer.

You want apologies? Take a look in e mirror first. Have your Ustasha relatives apologized for what heir regime did to the Serbian people? Their stated goal was the extermination of Serbs, Jews and Gypsies. They didn't hide this. Then people like you get on this board and deny and minimize the crimes of that bloodthirsty regime and then expect an apology from Serbs. Well guess what? You've got a long wait.

As I said before, you wanted war and you got one. Quit crying now. Learn to deal with it.

Word has it that the Croatians in the Vukovar region sleep with one eye open. That's probably a good idea because there are a lot of Serbs in that area who consider Vukovar Serbian land. Serbs have long memories, just sayin. Sleep tight.

Croatian Canadian, did Croatia ever apologize for being aggressor toward Serbs? Maybe apologizing is not that simple and not even that relevant, nor effective. We need to move forward. We have so much in common, culture, language, history, even interest and future.

For ages Croatia supported by Satan in the Vatican, now that is about to change! The Roman Catholic Empire like Serbia also in the most danger of all time in history! Serbia surrounded by Hell and the Roman Catholic Empire is facing the Wrath of Hell! Croatia please don't misunderstand me, I really don't wish you any bad because I am in a way a part of you, not much different just our faith and even that not much different. All religion is good, none are bad or evil, only the mortal men who want to become God. God created man in his likeness, so mortal men express their godliness in war, to take life this is what God does. Mortal Gods to make men war for their amusement. A new era upon us all on earth today! We begin this century in one way but by the end of it all will be facing in the other way! The whole history we mortals understand is only a blink in the eye of eternity. Serbia only desires Liberty and Peace, nothing more or less! Our Slavic Eastern Orthodox Blood and Tears stain the earth of all Europe! The Serbian Holocast, forbidden to be mentioned or acknoledged by society, why? What mortal God on earth keeps this horrific secret deep within his wicked heart? The wrath of Hell, the eternal pit deep withing Satans heart! Mortal men make their own destiny, we don't need war to prove to Satan that we are men. Destiny, well now it's reality, for some the wrath of Hell and for some Kingdom Come! For Serbia Liberty and Peace, Boze Pravde i Gospode Pomiluj!!!

njegos- we've seen the results of war between Serbs and Croats....unless Serbs far out-man and and have the upper hand due to weapons, they end up running or dead....your rumors are Serb propaganda while we've showed you what 1800 civilians can do to hold off 30,000 Serbian troops along with Air and tank support while on the other hand....remember what Milosevic said:

"Milošević: Molim vas, 6 hiljada Hrvata je branilo Vukovar pola godine; napadala je cela Prva armija, vazduhoplovstvo, čudo, sva sila koju je imala JNA, a oni nisu odbranili Knin, kojem se može prići samo iz tri pravca; nisu ga mogli braniti ni 12 sati!?"

"Takva odluka, kada su imali sve uslove da se brane, izazvala je egzodus. Sada to treba da bude razlog da Jugoslavija jurne tamo da brani te teritorije, sa kojih su oni utekli kao zečevi"!!!!

you keep repeating the same old lies....over and over and over.....

Croatian Canadian - You didn't answer my question. This seems to be a pattern with you. You blurt out your Ustasha-taught jibberish, then retreat. In a debate the only thing worse than a weak position is a debater with a weak mind. You seem to have both.

Well besides Jasenovac, Croats had many other concentration camps throughout Croatia and even on its islands.
And the camp wouldn't be counting those who were killed in their homes or marched off and thrown in ravines - without ever being in a camp.

I believe the numbers used for Jasenovac is the total number of Serbs killed in all the camps complexes in Croatia and northern Bosnia.

Croatian Canadian - I'll be glad to debate the number of those killed by the Ustasha with you, but why don't you answer my question to you two posts ago about provocations? A subject you brought up by the way.

When you can't defend your weak position you obfuscate the debate by jumping to another subject. I feel like I'm talking to a grade school kid.

You are a sad and cowardly person. Once again, you confirm the old saying. 'the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.' And in your case, you haven't fallen far from the cowardly Ustasha tree that produced you. Very sad.

Beautiful inspiring words from Nikolic. Then, one looks to the reality and sees Seselj burning a Croatian flag and then Vucic saying "I want proof from the doctor that the man is healthy before I do anything". Or Vulin, who is on a totally different reality plane from everybody else, saying "come to Belgrade, come to Belgrade". That is, yet more signs of schizophrenic behavior from Serb politicians.

....ohh...and the craziest thing. I've been reading about Jasenovac and have come across sites that have claimed factual numbers...not the greatly exaggerated BS njegos and Drago post....Holocaust Encyclopedia say the total....including Serbs, Jews, Roma and Croats were between 77,000 and 99,000...how on earth do you guys come up with these retarded numbers of 700,000?


its not even funny, its pathetic to inflate those numbers and an injustice to those murdered!

Croatian Canadian - Since I know you'll never answer my questions, I'll be the bigger man again (easily done with you) and endulge you in a discussion on Jasenovac victims.

Not long ago on this site you claimed that only 20,000 were killed at Jasenovac. Now you found a source on the internet that says 77,000-99,000 were killed there. Are you increasing your numbers by a factor of five? YOUR source does. YOUR source, Holocaust Encyclopedia states that 4,975,477 Jews were killed in the Final Solution. You earlier claimed that the number was 2,000,000. Are you now saying that the number of Jews killed is 150% greater than your earlier assertion? That's what YOUR source says. YOUR source has refuted all of the revisionist numbers that you've previously claimed. Way to go genius. YOUR source also says that many documents have been destroyed and with the communist cover-up of these crimes these numbers are merely estimates. And here's the clincher, YOUR source says that this information is based on documentation available in German and Croat archives. Your own Croatian archives increased your numbers by a factor of five! YOUR own source has proven you to be a fraud and a historical revisionist.

Now run back to your Ustasha relatives and ask them what to do next since you've been exposed as the fraud that you are.

(Read my next post for more reliabler numbers)

Croatian Canadian - Consider this a continuation of your education on the shameful history of your people. Pretty soon I'm going to start charging you.

Historical claims of those killed at Jasenovac by German generals: Massenbach: 700,000, Ernst Fick: 600-700,000, Alexander Lohr: 400,000, Lothar Rendulic: 350,000, Edmund Glaise von Horsteneau: 300,000.

The lowest figures here more than triple YOUR highest figures! And these aren't Serbian sources. These figures come from YOUR partners in crime, the Nazis who were known to keep very good records of such things.

Even Tito's government who blatantly covered up Ustasha crimes in the name of Brotherhood & Unity, put the number of those killed at Jasenovac between 500,000-600,000.

Now run off with your tail between your legs and tell your Ustasha daddy and uncles that the rubbish they've been feeding your for your entire life is just that - rubbish.

Ustasha Boy - that was too easy.

This is a lot more sensitive than it looks and in many cases, who provoked whom?

A couple of months ago I saw a photo on faceBook that was going around. It was a photo of a group of Serbian teens along with a few older men. They were standing in front of the sign that says Vukovar and in their hand they had a Serbian flag draped across the front of the photo. The caption was "Vukovar is ours"!

when Croatia played in Beograd, Serbs had a banner that read "Vukovar", it was written in cirilica...Serbs also burned our flag that day at the stadium....no big deal, its just another day in Serbia!

we Croats don't have issues with Serbs but we have issues with many of those that continue to use the terms Serb Krajina, Vukovar written in cirilica and many other references that Croatian towns belong to Serbia. who wouldn't feel those are provocations? Serbia has never fully apologized for their aggression against Croatia because they still, to this day, believe they weren't the aggressors.

we will never have peace, not as long as Serbs demand any part of Croatian land be their own...and history has proven Serbs are untrustworthy! If I was living there, I'd allow few Serb families back to Vukovar...they destroyed it and created atrocities, why would any Croats want them living in the same neighborhood...knowing the very people that betrayed you live next door....no way....go home!

Croatian Canadian, did Croatia ever apologize for being aggressor toward Serbs? Maybe apologizing is not that simple and not even that relevant, nor effective. We need to move forward. We have so much in common, culture, language, history, even interest and future.

From Croatian Canadian: "...we have issues with many of those that continue to use the terms Serb Krajina, Vukovar written in cirilica and many other references that Croatian towns belong to Serbia. who wouldn't feel those are provocations? Serbia has never fully apologized for their aggression against Croatia because they still, to this day, believe they weren't the aggressors."

Let's go back to when Tudjman was elected before any of the hostilities began. Serbs were fired from their jobs, their homes vandalized, streets were named after Ustasha war criminals, many Serbs were killed and I could go on and on. Were these not provocations? Please answer.

You want apologies? Take a look in e mirror first. Have your Ustasha relatives apologized for what heir regime did to the Serbian people? Their stated goal was the extermination of Serbs, Jews and Gypsies. They didn't hide this. Then people like you get on this board and deny and minimize the crimes of that bloodthirsty regime and then expect an apology from Serbs. Well guess what? You've got a long wait.

As I said before, you wanted war and you got one. Quit crying now. Learn to deal with it.

Word has it that the Croatians in the Vukovar region sleep with one eye open. That's probably a good idea because there are a lot of Serbs in that area who consider Vukovar Serbian land. Serbs have long memories, just sayin. Sleep tight.

For ages Croatia supported by Satan in the Vatican, now that is about to change! The Roman Catholic Empire like Serbia also in the most danger of all time in history! Serbia surrounded by Hell and the Roman Catholic Empire is facing the Wrath of Hell! Croatia please don't misunderstand me, I really don't wish you any bad because I am in a way a part of you, not much different just our faith and even that not much different. All religion is good, none are bad or evil, only the mortal men who want to become God. God created man in his likeness, so mortal men express their godliness in war, to take life this is what God does. Mortal Gods to make men war for their amusement. A new era upon us all on earth today! We begin this century in one way but by the end of it all will be facing in the other way! The whole history we mortals understand is only a blink in the eye of eternity. Serbia only desires Liberty and Peace, nothing more or less! Our Slavic Eastern Orthodox Blood and Tears stain the earth of all Europe! The Serbian Holocast, forbidden to be mentioned or acknoledged by society, why? What mortal God on earth keeps this horrific secret deep within his wicked heart? The wrath of Hell, the eternal pit deep withing Satans heart! Mortal men make their own destiny, we don't need war to prove to Satan that we are men. Destiny, well now it's reality, for some the wrath of Hell and for some Kingdom Come! For Serbia Liberty and Peace, Boze Pravde i Gospode Pomiluj!!!

Croatian Canadian - You didn't answer my question. This seems to be a pattern with you. You blurt out your Ustasha-taught jibberish, then retreat. In a debate the only thing worse than a weak position is a debater with a weak mind. You seem to have both.

Croatian Canadian - I'll be glad to debate the number of those killed by the Ustasha with you, but why don't you answer my question to you two posts ago about provocations? A subject you brought up by the way.

When you can't defend your weak position you obfuscate the debate by jumping to another subject. I feel like I'm talking to a grade school kid.

You are a sad and cowardly person. Once again, you confirm the old saying. 'the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.' And in your case, you haven't fallen far from the cowardly Ustasha tree that produced you. Very sad.

njegos- we've seen the results of war between Serbs and Croats....unless Serbs far out-man and and have the upper hand due to weapons, they end up running or dead....your rumors are Serb propaganda while we've showed you what 1800 civilians can do to hold off 30,000 Serbian troops along with Air and tank support while on the other hand....remember what Milosevic said:

"Milošević: Molim vas, 6 hiljada Hrvata je branilo Vukovar pola godine; napadala je cela Prva armija, vazduhoplovstvo, čudo, sva sila koju je imala JNA, a oni nisu odbranili Knin, kojem se može prići samo iz tri pravca; nisu ga mogli braniti ni 12 sati!?"

"Takva odluka, kada su imali sve uslove da se brane, izazvala je egzodus. Sada to treba da bude razlog da Jugoslavija jurne tamo da brani te teritorije, sa kojih su oni utekli kao zečevi"!!!!

you keep repeating the same old lies....over and over and over.....

....ohh...and the craziest thing. I've been reading about Jasenovac and have come across sites that have claimed factual numbers...not the greatly exaggerated BS njegos and Drago post....Holocaust Encyclopedia say the total....including Serbs, Jews, Roma and Croats were between 77,000 and 99,000...how on earth do you guys come up with these retarded numbers of 700,000?


its not even funny, its pathetic to inflate those numbers and an injustice to those murdered!

Croatian Canadian - Consider this a continuation of your education on the shameful history of your people. Pretty soon I'm going to start charging you.

Historical claims of those killed at Jasenovac by German generals: Massenbach: 700,000, Ernst Fick: 600-700,000, Alexander Lohr: 400,000, Lothar Rendulic: 350,000, Edmund Glaise von Horsteneau: 300,000.

The lowest figures here more than triple YOUR highest figures! And these aren't Serbian sources. These figures come from YOUR partners in crime, the Nazis who were known to keep very good records of such things.

Even Tito's government who blatantly covered up Ustasha crimes in the name of Brotherhood & Unity, put the number of those killed at Jasenovac between 500,000-600,000.

Now run off with your tail between your legs and tell your Ustasha daddy and uncles that the rubbish they've been feeding your for your entire life is just that - rubbish.

Ustasha Boy - that was too easy.

Well besides Jasenovac, Croats had many other concentration camps throughout Croatia and even on its islands.
And the camp wouldn't be counting those who were killed in their homes or marched off and thrown in ravines - without ever being in a camp.

I believe the numbers used for Jasenovac is the total number of Serbs killed in all the camps complexes in Croatia and northern Bosnia.

Croatian Canadian - Since I know you'll never answer my questions, I'll be the bigger man again (easily done with you) and endulge you in a discussion on Jasenovac victims.

Not long ago on this site you claimed that only 20,000 were killed at Jasenovac. Now you found a source on the internet that says 77,000-99,000 were killed there. Are you increasing your numbers by a factor of five? YOUR source does. YOUR source, Holocaust Encyclopedia states that 4,975,477 Jews were killed in the Final Solution. You earlier claimed that the number was 2,000,000. Are you now saying that the number of Jews killed is 150% greater than your earlier assertion? That's what YOUR source says. YOUR source has refuted all of the revisionist numbers that you've previously claimed. Way to go genius. YOUR source also says that many documents have been destroyed and with the communist cover-up of these crimes these numbers are merely estimates. And here's the clincher, YOUR source says that this information is based on documentation available in German and Croat archives. Your own Croatian archives increased your numbers by a factor of five! YOUR own source has proven you to be a fraud and a historical revisionist.

Now run back to your Ustasha relatives and ask them what to do next since you've been exposed as the fraud that you are.

(Read my next post for more reliabler numbers)

Beautiful inspiring words from Nikolic. Then, one looks to the reality and sees Seselj burning a Croatian flag and then Vucic saying "I want proof from the doctor that the man is healthy before I do anything". Or Vulin, who is on a totally different reality plane from everybody else, saying "come to Belgrade, come to Belgrade". That is, yet more signs of schizophrenic behavior from Serb politicians.