Greek PM: Germany never paid full reparations

Germany also owes Serbia not just reparations for WWII http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Retribution_%281941%29 but also for their war crimes in the 1990s.

The only crime Germany is guilty of is agreeing to stop on day 78 without an unconditional surrender, and full agreement for independence of Kosovo.
(a New day, 11 March 2015 12:19)

Hahaha! First of all, Germany was in no position in 1999 to issue ultimatums at the international level. Second, what more do you want since you - according to your version of events - already got an independent state? A little bloodthirsty in getting other people to accomplish what you could not on your own?

Why shouldn't Germany be held responsible for all the damage caused during the Second World War? The fact that it was even allowed to reestablish itself in 1949 is just as much a miracle of fate as it was the good faith of the Americans, British, and French. It would have been completely justified if Germany were broken back up to its pre-unification petty states.

(Ari Gold, 11 March 2015 10:01)
Why would Germany have to pay Serbia for war crimes Serbians committed, after all they are the only ones that have been charged in any court of law. Just because some nationalist is crying because they were stopped from committing more rapes, murders, tortures, vandalism and property distruction and theft, does not mean Germany committed war crimes.
And Germany has paid Serbia many times over what any actual damage to Serbia was done.
The only crime Germany is guilty of is agreeing to stop on day 78 without an unconditional surrender, and full agreement for independence of Kosovo.

WWII ended 70 years ago. Time to move on?

Why is it that countries like Japan and Germany have moved on from WWII and have become very successful, but Russia and Greece seem stuck in the past, floundering, and yet keep evoking WWII?

. If Greece made things other than olives and feta cheese probably things would be better.
(j, 11 March 2015 12:07)

I'm just sick of listening to self-righteous Greek hating Albanian ranters like you who try to create an impression out of their own ignorance.With a Greek GDP of 239 billion euros in 2010 that must've been a lot of olives and feta cheese,don't you think? I bet all the olives must've been collected by the 000s of Albanian immigrants in Greece.
The fact is Germany never paid its World war II loans to Greece(apart from some second hand machinery given in exchange and never delivered) nor Europe. Massive amounts of debt was written off for Germany, but unfortunately you have chosen to forget that. Had Germany been forced to pay back all its WW2 AND WW1 debts, Germany wouldn't exist today. It would have all been sold off.
Personally I don't have any issue with the German war II reparations because Greek politicians use the issue for their own populist purposes.My issue is that Greece has elected a government with a schizophrenic mandate ("Tell the troika to stuff it but don't leave the Euro!") so the best anyone can do is continue the charade and act as if something - anything - has or is about to change.Well nothing is going to change as a member of the Euroland.The euro is flawed from the financial perspective and is ideologically and politically driven."One size fits all" policy has been an unmitigated disaster.Default and regain your national sovereignty.

The bailout of Greece was a bailout of German and other countries' banks that made bad investments in Greece. This is contrary to capitalist principles cause it socializes losses. European taxpayers are left standing with the bill in their hands if Greece defaults on its debt. Seems hardly fair now, does it?

And in 1953 Germany gots it debts forgiven by the victors of WWII. If not, they would still be paying for that. Perhaps they should take that into consideration.

This is what happens when Done Quixote is in a position to rule a country. If Greece made things other than olives and feta cheese probably things would be better. Instead they've based everything on the Marshall plan and Euro funds for decades. And when the politicians stole all of that, they cry bloody murder. Its nobody else's fault, that Greece effed up big time and needed loans to survive. I'm pretty sure you didn't need that Olympic stadium. How much crappy projects like that has Greece wasted their money on?

Whether or not Germany owes Greece anything is irrelevant to discussions about their bailout. This money came from the EU and the IMF whose members are manifold. These countries will not expect to be short changed because of an historic row between Greece and Germany. I suggest that Tsipras spends his time working out how to make his country run properly rather than dragging up 70 year old disputes. I know that in the Balkans events from a few hundred years ago are treated as if they occurred yesterday, but this attitude from Greece will get them nowhere other than the poor house.

Oh don't worry you will every red cent you owe. Cut this nonsense about WWII and start paying your debts. The story is getting a little outdated.

National Bank of Greece in October 2007 was 700$/share today 1.27$/share.

I was wondering why, but Cepras gives all the answers by blaming everyone but Greeks.
Good job Cepras!
It looks that NBG will go bankrupted if you continue to blame others.

Leonidas, that's the problem. We don't make $hit either in Albania, other then sell mineral ore. However we are not in denial. What does Greece make?You tell me. I've been working for years with high tech machinery. Never seen one Greek piece of machinery. I see,German, Swiss, American, English, Italian sometimes. Same with raw material producers. Nothing from Greece is imported in the West. Greece makes nothing, but sit on their @$$es hoping tourist will come. That is where your problem lies. Its not even about this debt. Even if you had no debt you would still end up in the same situation. Its a society that feels entitled yet it produces nothing. Others are not to blame. Its corruption, idlesness, horrible tax collection, mismanagement of finances. All of which are of your own making. By the way, a rich Greece is good for us. A poor Greece breeds, conflict, hatred, ignorance (politicians like this guy).

LK

“Why is it that countries like Japan and Germany have moved on from WWII and have become very successful, but Russia and Greece seem stuck in the past”

Well you are so informed and thus you should also know that both Germany and Japan are occupied states with multiple obligations to last until 2099. Maybe you know that Japan has to keep their 1 trillion money only in USD and Germany failed to even see their gold kept in America. You must also heard of things like Kanzler Act signed by every newly elected Chancellor of this state. Also you should have heard something about Marshall Plan according to which the USA invested so much money this occupied states. So they not only forgave Germany but also helped them much more than the other Europeans.

It happened that the war was won by the USSR and 7 500 000 of the combat losses out of 10 000 000 Hitler suffered from the USSR whose 70 000 towns and villages were ruined. But greater part of the reparations were to be paid to other states that suffered much less. Greece wasn’t among the champions. Against Israel that received 1 000 000 000 DM investments Greece has got pea nuts. Meanwhile Greece was one of the few states whose partisans really fought against the Axis. So their counter blackmail though being surrealistic has a historical basis.

PS Don’t you worry about Russia as our problems are mostly internal ones and none of them is fatal.

"Greek PM: Germany never paid full reparations"

Hahahahahahahahaha!!!

That statement will certainly ensure our dear friend Leonidas' vote for this guy but unfortunately it will not bring food to the dining table of Greek families or help Greece avoid bankruptcy!

It's amusing that a PM of a country is not aware of the survival rule # 1: Don't bite the hand that feeds you! lol

How can it be so? Your fellow Albanians J & CTC1 say Greece doesn't produce anything and Germany feed us.Yet when one looks at the Greek-German trade of the last 10 years you'll see that Germany had a positive balance of payments of nearly 90billion euros.Who feeds whom?
(Leonidas, 12 March 2015 15:58)

Leonidas, this is not about anger. I'm not afraid to admit I'm wrong either. As a matter of fact I strive for an opportunity to learn something. However the fact of the matter is that countries that make stuff and export it, do much better. I'm not aware of anything that Greece manufactures that is exported globally. I may be wrong and if I'm wrong I'd love to learn it. If you know of anything please share it. The point that I was trying to make is that in the Balkans, Greece included, people do a lot of blaming others, a lot of talking but not much working. Meanwhile the Germans, Swiss, French, Brits, work and make stuff. Instead of wanting and wanting more from them, Greece and the rest of the Balkans should look inwards, talk less and do more. The crisis Greece is going through is a symptom. Greece doesn't create enough value (and wastes a lot) to be economically independent, and thus depends on the mercy of others.

By the ECB admission they've made 1.9 Billion profits on Greek bonds since 2010.Who feeds whom?
(Leonidas, 12 March 2015 15:48)

Greece, of course, feeds the EU :) if the EU were not to receive interest from Greek bonds, there is no other place on Earth where the EU could invest its money other than Greek bonds.
----------

But a historically ignorant poodle like yourself will always sing the German song as means to survive.Back to history
(Leonidas, 12 March 2015 15:48)

Yeah, back to history... When will Greece pay compensation for the crimes and destruction committed by Alexander the Great?
----------

But as I said on my posting below Greek politicians bear huge responsibility for selling their country on the altar of the 4thReich(this is what the EU is).
(Leonidas, 12 March 2015 15:48)

It's so unfortunate that the majority of Greeks did not share your opinion. It would have saved the EU from a failed country like Greece becoming part of it.
----------

Yet when one looks at the Greek-German trade of the last 10 years you'll see that Germany had a positive balance of payments of nearly 90billion euros.Who feeds whom?
(Leonidas, 12 March 2015 15:58)

Greece, of course, feeds Germany. If Greece were to refuse to export food to Germany, Germans would starve :)

March ON! Greek brothers and sisters.

Well you are so informed and thus you should also know that both Germany and Japan are occupied states ... (rote, 12 March 2015 09:31)

Hmmm Germany 80 million people 4th largest economy in the world.

GDP per capita 48 thousand $

Japan 128 million people 3rd largest economy in the world

GDP per capita 38 thousand $

Russia 145 million people 9th largest economy in the world
GDP per capita 12 thousand $

While Greece in the midst of the crises has its GDP per capita twice more than Russia somewhere 22-24 thousand $.

Enjoy your "freedom" under Car Putin.

1: Don't bite the hand that feeds you! lol
(icj1, 12 March 2015 01:48

By the ECB admission they've made 1.9 Billion profits on Greek bonds since 2010.Who feeds whom? But a historically ignorant poodle like yourself will always sing the German song as means to survive.Back to history, Greece suffered one of the most brutal German occupations.More than 250000 died,mainly of starvation after the nazi requisitioned all food.Thousands of civilians were put against the wall and executed and more than 1000 villages burned to the ground.All foreign currency holdings at the Greek central bank were looted and the collaborationist German appointed occupation government was forced to get loans which were handed over to thee nazi regime.Modern Germany,however,refuses any responsibility for past crimes.But as I said on my posting below Greek politicians bear huge responsibility for selling their country on the altar of the 4thReich(this is what the EU is).

While Greece in the midst of the crises has its GDP per capita twice more than Russia somewhere 22-24 thousand $.
(Orthodox Albanian, 12 March 2015 14:53)

How can it be so? Your fellow Albanians J & CTC1 say Greece doesn't produce anything and Germany feed us.Yet when one looks at the Greek-German trade of the last 10 years you'll see that Germany had a positive balance of payments of nearly 90billion euros.Who feeds whom?

J

Greece has never claimed to be an industrialized nation but there are Greek companies particularly in the sectors that produce steel, concrete, aluminium, copper and paper, which have been desperately trying to find ways to stem some of the negative effects of the economic crisis Greece is going though. Today, heavy industry in Greece produces approximately 40% of what it produced in 2008, with all the consequences on employment and GDP. The same problems can also be found on the Greek shipyards and the Hellenic defence industries.But Greece has never had a history of relying on heavy industry for its survival.The main pillars of the Greek economy have always been the services sector and in particular Shipping and tourism and to a lesser extent agriculture.The introduction of euro was the death knell of the Greek economy because the single currency is not just a medium of exchange but most importantly a measure of competitiveness.Since the euro was designed by the Germans that competitiveness had to be measured against German products and countries which couldn't compete against suffered huge trade deficits-as in the case of Greece.A successful single currency would have required a unified fiscal policy with transfers of surpluses from the richer countries to the poorer ones.Since Germany was unwilling to do so they've imposed austerity on countries like Greece resulting in halfing of wages,pensions
and reducing economic activity.The Euro is doomed no matter what.

Leonidas I agree with most of what you are saying. The problem I have is that while most of what you say is true, its also being used by your politicians to escape unscathed from their responsibilities. They are responsible for bad investments, bad governing, horrible tax collection, corruption etc. I often see Greeks very easily point out the external factors that brought this crisis. Very rarely do I see them point out the internal factors. There should be Greek politicians in prison right now who were directly responsible for this crisis, whether that was due to corruption, mismanagement of funds, facilitation of tax evasion, or bad governing due to a conflict of interest. Yet none of this has happened, is happening or is even discussed. Ministers or even prime-ministers in the last 20 years should be locked up. This did not happen totally on its own and without some nudging and facilitation. There are people responsible for this and quite a few of them reside in Athens, rather than Brussels. Focusing only on the EU is letting those who are responsible in Greece get away with it. This only an opinion and it doesn't matter much anyway.

(Ari Gold, 11 March 2015 10:01)
Why would Germany have to pay Serbia for war crimes Serbians committed, after all they are the only ones that have been charged in any court of law. Just because some nationalist is crying because they were stopped from committing more rapes, murders, tortures, vandalism and property distruction and theft, does not mean Germany committed war crimes.
And Germany has paid Serbia many times over what any actual damage to Serbia was done.
The only crime Germany is guilty of is agreeing to stop on day 78 without an unconditional surrender, and full agreement for independence of Kosovo.

This is what happens when Done Quixote is in a position to rule a country. If Greece made things other than olives and feta cheese probably things would be better. Instead they've based everything on the Marshall plan and Euro funds for decades. And when the politicians stole all of that, they cry bloody murder. Its nobody else's fault, that Greece effed up big time and needed loans to survive. I'm pretty sure you didn't need that Olympic stadium. How much crappy projects like that has Greece wasted their money on?

Germany also owes Serbia not just reparations for WWII http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Retribution_%281941%29 but also for their war crimes in the 1990s.

Oh don't worry you will every red cent you owe. Cut this nonsense about WWII and start paying your debts. The story is getting a little outdated.

National Bank of Greece in October 2007 was 700$/share today 1.27$/share.

I was wondering why, but Cepras gives all the answers by blaming everyone but Greeks.
Good job Cepras!
It looks that NBG will go bankrupted if you continue to blame others.

The only crime Germany is guilty of is agreeing to stop on day 78 without an unconditional surrender, and full agreement for independence of Kosovo.
(a New day, 11 March 2015 12:19)

Hahaha! First of all, Germany was in no position in 1999 to issue ultimatums at the international level. Second, what more do you want since you - according to your version of events - already got an independent state? A little bloodthirsty in getting other people to accomplish what you could not on your own?

Why shouldn't Germany be held responsible for all the damage caused during the Second World War? The fact that it was even allowed to reestablish itself in 1949 is just as much a miracle of fate as it was the good faith of the Americans, British, and French. It would have been completely justified if Germany were broken back up to its pre-unification petty states.

Whether or not Germany owes Greece anything is irrelevant to discussions about their bailout. This money came from the EU and the IMF whose members are manifold. These countries will not expect to be short changed because of an historic row between Greece and Germany. I suggest that Tsipras spends his time working out how to make his country run properly rather than dragging up 70 year old disputes. I know that in the Balkans events from a few hundred years ago are treated as if they occurred yesterday, but this attitude from Greece will get them nowhere other than the poor house.

WWII ended 70 years ago. Time to move on?

Why is it that countries like Japan and Germany have moved on from WWII and have become very successful, but Russia and Greece seem stuck in the past, floundering, and yet keep evoking WWII?

. If Greece made things other than olives and feta cheese probably things would be better.
(j, 11 March 2015 12:07)

I'm just sick of listening to self-righteous Greek hating Albanian ranters like you who try to create an impression out of their own ignorance.With a Greek GDP of 239 billion euros in 2010 that must've been a lot of olives and feta cheese,don't you think? I bet all the olives must've been collected by the 000s of Albanian immigrants in Greece.
The fact is Germany never paid its World war II loans to Greece(apart from some second hand machinery given in exchange and never delivered) nor Europe. Massive amounts of debt was written off for Germany, but unfortunately you have chosen to forget that. Had Germany been forced to pay back all its WW2 AND WW1 debts, Germany wouldn't exist today. It would have all been sold off.
Personally I don't have any issue with the German war II reparations because Greek politicians use the issue for their own populist purposes.My issue is that Greece has elected a government with a schizophrenic mandate ("Tell the troika to stuff it but don't leave the Euro!") so the best anyone can do is continue the charade and act as if something - anything - has or is about to change.Well nothing is going to change as a member of the Euroland.The euro is flawed from the financial perspective and is ideologically and politically driven."One size fits all" policy has been an unmitigated disaster.Default and regain your national sovereignty.

Leonidas, that's the problem. We don't make $hit either in Albania, other then sell mineral ore. However we are not in denial. What does Greece make?You tell me. I've been working for years with high tech machinery. Never seen one Greek piece of machinery. I see,German, Swiss, American, English, Italian sometimes. Same with raw material producers. Nothing from Greece is imported in the West. Greece makes nothing, but sit on their @$$es hoping tourist will come. That is where your problem lies. Its not even about this debt. Even if you had no debt you would still end up in the same situation. Its a society that feels entitled yet it produces nothing. Others are not to blame. Its corruption, idlesness, horrible tax collection, mismanagement of finances. All of which are of your own making. By the way, a rich Greece is good for us. A poor Greece breeds, conflict, hatred, ignorance (politicians like this guy).

The bailout of Greece was a bailout of German and other countries' banks that made bad investments in Greece. This is contrary to capitalist principles cause it socializes losses. European taxpayers are left standing with the bill in their hands if Greece defaults on its debt. Seems hardly fair now, does it?

And in 1953 Germany gots it debts forgiven by the victors of WWII. If not, they would still be paying for that. Perhaps they should take that into consideration.

"Greek PM: Germany never paid full reparations"

Hahahahahahahahaha!!!

That statement will certainly ensure our dear friend Leonidas' vote for this guy but unfortunately it will not bring food to the dining table of Greek families or help Greece avoid bankruptcy!

It's amusing that a PM of a country is not aware of the survival rule # 1: Don't bite the hand that feeds you! lol

LK

“Why is it that countries like Japan and Germany have moved on from WWII and have become very successful, but Russia and Greece seem stuck in the past”

Well you are so informed and thus you should also know that both Germany and Japan are occupied states with multiple obligations to last until 2099. Maybe you know that Japan has to keep their 1 trillion money only in USD and Germany failed to even see their gold kept in America. You must also heard of things like Kanzler Act signed by every newly elected Chancellor of this state. Also you should have heard something about Marshall Plan according to which the USA invested so much money this occupied states. So they not only forgave Germany but also helped them much more than the other Europeans.

It happened that the war was won by the USSR and 7 500 000 of the combat losses out of 10 000 000 Hitler suffered from the USSR whose 70 000 towns and villages were ruined. But greater part of the reparations were to be paid to other states that suffered much less. Greece wasn’t among the champions. Against Israel that received 1 000 000 000 DM investments Greece has got pea nuts. Meanwhile Greece was one of the few states whose partisans really fought against the Axis. So their counter blackmail though being surrealistic has a historical basis.

PS Don’t you worry about Russia as our problems are mostly internal ones and none of them is fatal.

March ON! Greek brothers and sisters.

1: Don't bite the hand that feeds you! lol
(icj1, 12 March 2015 01:48

By the ECB admission they've made 1.9 Billion profits on Greek bonds since 2010.Who feeds whom? But a historically ignorant poodle like yourself will always sing the German song as means to survive.Back to history, Greece suffered one of the most brutal German occupations.More than 250000 died,mainly of starvation after the nazi requisitioned all food.Thousands of civilians were put against the wall and executed and more than 1000 villages burned to the ground.All foreign currency holdings at the Greek central bank were looted and the collaborationist German appointed occupation government was forced to get loans which were handed over to thee nazi regime.Modern Germany,however,refuses any responsibility for past crimes.But as I said on my posting below Greek politicians bear huge responsibility for selling their country on the altar of the 4thReich(this is what the EU is).

While Greece in the midst of the crises has its GDP per capita twice more than Russia somewhere 22-24 thousand $.
(Orthodox Albanian, 12 March 2015 14:53)

How can it be so? Your fellow Albanians J & CTC1 say Greece doesn't produce anything and Germany feed us.Yet when one looks at the Greek-German trade of the last 10 years you'll see that Germany had a positive balance of payments of nearly 90billion euros.Who feeds whom?

J

Greece has never claimed to be an industrialized nation but there are Greek companies particularly in the sectors that produce steel, concrete, aluminium, copper and paper, which have been desperately trying to find ways to stem some of the negative effects of the economic crisis Greece is going though. Today, heavy industry in Greece produces approximately 40% of what it produced in 2008, with all the consequences on employment and GDP. The same problems can also be found on the Greek shipyards and the Hellenic defence industries.But Greece has never had a history of relying on heavy industry for its survival.The main pillars of the Greek economy have always been the services sector and in particular Shipping and tourism and to a lesser extent agriculture.The introduction of euro was the death knell of the Greek economy because the single currency is not just a medium of exchange but most importantly a measure of competitiveness.Since the euro was designed by the Germans that competitiveness had to be measured against German products and countries which couldn't compete against suffered huge trade deficits-as in the case of Greece.A successful single currency would have required a unified fiscal policy with transfers of surpluses from the richer countries to the poorer ones.Since Germany was unwilling to do so they've imposed austerity on countries like Greece resulting in halfing of wages,pensions
and reducing economic activity.The Euro is doomed no matter what.

Well you are so informed and thus you should also know that both Germany and Japan are occupied states ... (rote, 12 March 2015 09:31)

Hmmm Germany 80 million people 4th largest economy in the world.

GDP per capita 48 thousand $

Japan 128 million people 3rd largest economy in the world

GDP per capita 38 thousand $

Russia 145 million people 9th largest economy in the world
GDP per capita 12 thousand $

While Greece in the midst of the crises has its GDP per capita twice more than Russia somewhere 22-24 thousand $.

Enjoy your "freedom" under Car Putin.

How can it be so? Your fellow Albanians J & CTC1 say Greece doesn't produce anything and Germany feed us.Yet when one looks at the Greek-German trade of the last 10 years you'll see that Germany had a positive balance of payments of nearly 90billion euros.Who feeds whom?
(Leonidas, 12 March 2015 15:58)

Leonidas, this is not about anger. I'm not afraid to admit I'm wrong either. As a matter of fact I strive for an opportunity to learn something. However the fact of the matter is that countries that make stuff and export it, do much better. I'm not aware of anything that Greece manufactures that is exported globally. I may be wrong and if I'm wrong I'd love to learn it. If you know of anything please share it. The point that I was trying to make is that in the Balkans, Greece included, people do a lot of blaming others, a lot of talking but not much working. Meanwhile the Germans, Swiss, French, Brits, work and make stuff. Instead of wanting and wanting more from them, Greece and the rest of the Balkans should look inwards, talk less and do more. The crisis Greece is going through is a symptom. Greece doesn't create enough value (and wastes a lot) to be economically independent, and thus depends on the mercy of others.

Leonidas I agree with most of what you are saying. The problem I have is that while most of what you say is true, its also being used by your politicians to escape unscathed from their responsibilities. They are responsible for bad investments, bad governing, horrible tax collection, corruption etc. I often see Greeks very easily point out the external factors that brought this crisis. Very rarely do I see them point out the internal factors. There should be Greek politicians in prison right now who were directly responsible for this crisis, whether that was due to corruption, mismanagement of funds, facilitation of tax evasion, or bad governing due to a conflict of interest. Yet none of this has happened, is happening or is even discussed. Ministers or even prime-ministers in the last 20 years should be locked up. This did not happen totally on its own and without some nudging and facilitation. There are people responsible for this and quite a few of them reside in Athens, rather than Brussels. Focusing only on the EU is letting those who are responsible in Greece get away with it. This only an opinion and it doesn't matter much anyway.

By the ECB admission they've made 1.9 Billion profits on Greek bonds since 2010.Who feeds whom?
(Leonidas, 12 March 2015 15:48)

Greece, of course, feeds the EU :) if the EU were not to receive interest from Greek bonds, there is no other place on Earth where the EU could invest its money other than Greek bonds.
----------

But a historically ignorant poodle like yourself will always sing the German song as means to survive.Back to history
(Leonidas, 12 March 2015 15:48)

Yeah, back to history... When will Greece pay compensation for the crimes and destruction committed by Alexander the Great?
----------

But as I said on my posting below Greek politicians bear huge responsibility for selling their country on the altar of the 4thReich(this is what the EU is).
(Leonidas, 12 March 2015 15:48)

It's so unfortunate that the majority of Greeks did not share your opinion. It would have saved the EU from a failed country like Greece becoming part of it.
----------

Yet when one looks at the Greek-German trade of the last 10 years you'll see that Germany had a positive balance of payments of nearly 90billion euros.Who feeds whom?
(Leonidas, 12 March 2015 15:58)

Greece, of course, feeds Germany. If Greece were to refuse to export food to Germany, Germans would starve :)