Standard & Poor's affirms Serbia's BB- credit rating

(rote, 21 January 2015 13:47)

When the GFC occurred in 2008 it uncovered that all these US rating agencies had given the “toxic loans” a AAA+ rating.
Can anyone imagine that a country that has 19 trillion debt, or 130% of GDP (and negotiations are on the way now for the next trillion) is also AAA rated? The US economy is supposedly now 17 trillion, but when you take into account that prior to 2008 it was only 12 trillion, how could it jump to that level in such a short time when it economy has not really recovered and still have the AAA rating??????
That is why the Asian financial institutions no longer use any of them.

(sj, 22 January 2015 12:53)
Of course China does not need to see these ratings, they are smart enough to only loan money to Serbia to pay Chinese businesses to work in Serbia. Therefore the money on passes from Chinese to Serbs to Chinese building a stronger economy in China. Then Serbia is stuck with the payments and interest. So China actually gets a 200% return on its investment. They get the original money back immediately in investment in Chinese businesses and then they get the money back a second time per loan agreement. China has shown its cunning.
While the west donates money to Serbia to use (or pocket) and never receives anything in return.
But I stick to my original posts it is insignificant low lifes that say the credit ratings do not matter. Apparently someone else thinks they do or it would not be news.

By the way aren't you the one who is constantly announcing on here when Croatia or other countries rating takes a dive, or claiming that a certain country bonds have hit junk status???? Matters then, but not when it is Serbia, right?

All 3 big rating agencies work as US state institutions and FED departments. They depend on their clients while their clients depend of the government and FED. In 2014 Russia has paid out USD 130 bln. and what do we have instead ? Some BBB- ! Is it normal for a state with no budget deficit with positive trading saldo and with 10% of GDP state debts ? Same with the biggest Russian companies. Meanwhile the US with their 18 trillion debts enjoy AAA … Yes Serbia is in a heavy situation because unlike Russia you cannot developing without loans. But I wouldn’t make a tragedy of it because all those ratings are just another tool of pressure. Besides money can come from where you do not expect now. Including the Arab world conflicting with the west over many issues now.

Amnesty, sj, and rote,
Of course whether they give Serbia a BB- rating with a negative outlook or give the US a AAA rating means nothing to someone who is looking through sale papers to buy food this week or have to worry about whether they have enough on their credit card to be able to fill the tank on their car. But you know it matters in the business world or it would not continue to do so. Your dismissal of its importance was not worth the time it took to write the post.

(think about it, 22 January 2015 11:13)

Let me repeat, the US rating agencies had given the “toxic loans” a AAA+ rating when in fact they should have been ringing alarm bells and as a consequence they were one of the major players that casued the GFC.
Yes it is true the US rating agencies did matter in the business world up to 2008. The money is now in Asia and Asian bankers do not use US rating agencies because they do not trust them. Standard & Poor's and others have been doing backflips trying to regain credibility, but to little avail.
You have to get away from one dimentional thinking. The west is not the big player any more, its Asia.

Is this the same Standard & Poor's (S&P) credit agency that rated fraudulent, ponzie-scheme operations such as Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns and others with AAA ratings?

In 2014 Russia has paid out USD 130 bln. and what do we have instead ? Some BBB- ! Is it normal for a state with no budget deficit with positive trading saldo and with 10% of GDP state debts ? Same with the biggest Russian companies. Meanwhile the US with their 18 trillion debts enjoy AAA (rote, 21 January 2015 13:47)

Oh, yeah, because the US can service the 18 trillion debt whereas the probability of Russia doing the same is much smaller, even though Russia has a smaller debt for the simple fact that the Russian economy is much weaker than US'. The US has never defaulted; whereas Russia has. Russia has 8x less gold reserves compared to the US, despite the fantasies of the CE of B92 forums sj. The US has a diversified econonomy; whereas Russia doesn't. US has property rights; in Russia property rights are virtually non-existent. US is predictable; Russia is not since everything is decided at a single man's whims. So, in summary, Russia presents a much higher risk than the US and hence the BBB- credit rating. Unfortunately, even though Kremlin's propaganda is pretty good at brainwashing you, it can't do much to improve Russia's creditworthiness. The quality of the propagranda is not a criteria that investors take into account when deciding where to put their money lol

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

you have to get away from one dimentional thinking. The west is not the big player any more, its Asia.
(sj, 22 January 2015 12:53)

It's such a honor to have a visionary like you in these forums. It's so unfortunate that most of the world does not see what you see, but I'm sure that generations to come will remember the teachings of the CE of B92 forums sj who unfortunately are two advanced for our time!

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

sj,
Should anyone actually believe the crap sj posts please do not reveal your true identity as I am sure you would be enjoying a padded room by nightfall.
As far as gold reserves the US does OWN the largest in the world. China and Russia have increased their amounts China by 75% and Russia by 100% recently. However that puts China at about 12-13% of what the US owns, and Russia at about 14%.
See sj cannot come up with facts, that is why he never shows any supporting sources.
As he claims that forign investors are afraid to hold assets in the US for fear of having them frozen is as idiotic statement as ever made. Some of the largest property investors are of Chinese and Russian billionaires who choose to have property in the US to keep their home governments from eventually confiscating them for the state. Nearly all of the Russian oligarchs that own property in the US have not been affected by the sanctions as they tend to be in opposition to Putin.
As far as the Russian economy there is no interest in causing its collapse, but merely to show Putin he is not as omnipotent as he thinks.
Does anyone think the oil glut happened by coincidence. With Russia relying almost solely on oil reserves to boost its economy and military capabilities, it needs a little shock therapy.
But believe sj if you like, it is harmless, just don't let anyone know you are that foolish for your own sake.

(think about it, 22 January 2015 11:13) ... it matters in the business world or it would not continue to do so. Your dismissal of its importance was not worth the time it took to write the post.

-----

My dismissal is irrelavnt; however, the bankruptcy of Lehman Bros, Bear Stearns et al., certainly has more to do with the lack of S&P credit rating credibility.

sj,
You are not even a challenge anymore. Anyone with a 5th grade education can see through your charade, anyone more educated can only laugh.
Unemployment rate-many ways to compute that and get differing numbers but the accepted method is to take your actual potential workforce which does not include retired, disabled, or spouses who are in one income families, nor the school age. Then you take those activiely seeking work and divide. There are still those who want to live off the social network, incarcerated. But basically as I have always told my children any one in the US that wants to work CAN find a job, it may not be their dream job but it will pay the bills.
last wage increase 2008--You are getting better you use to claim that minimum wage has not been raised in 15 years. It is actually 2009. But if you knew anything about finance you would know that raising the minimum wage does not actually help the economy. Only about 2% of US workers make minimum wage, but raising it is like a snow ball rolling down a hill it causes other wages to rise, and all goods to increase in price so a few months after the hike the minimum wage worker actually has less spending ability than before.
Chinese govt owns 1/3 of the US-such an outrageous lie, what can anyone say in response.
Russian billionaires that have invested in the US, are outcasts in Russia because they oppose Putin, pure and simple.
Warren, Gates, etc are investors, entrepreneurs, very smart business men.

(think again, 23 January 2015 01:14)

What is your point with “Chinese businesses”? Serbia is a small country and it does not have skilled workforce in every area of endeavour. The Chinese recently built a bridge over the Danube in Belgrade simply because Serbia does not have sufficient technical expertise so Chinese engineers were used, but they also used local labor and materials.
“.....west donates money to Serbia and never receives anything in return”
Yes the west just gives and gives. Where were you when they handed out brains? Playing hide and seek?
“...Croatia or other countries rating takes a dive..Matters then, but not when it is Serbia, right”
Croatia has always been touted as a far richer country than Serbia. Well without EU aid its f****. Brussels has had to let Croatia stand alone as they cannot afford to prop it up and look at the final result – near bankrupt. That is my point.

It's such a honor to have a visionary like you in these forums. It's so unfortunate that most of the world does not see what you see, but I'm sure that generations to come will remember the teachings of the CE of B92 forums sj who unfortunately are two advanced for our time!

P.S. CE = Chief Economist
(icj1, 25 January 2015 06:17)

Since CTC shares a room in the hospital with Leonard, how is he going? Is he recovering from his psychosis?
P.S. CTC = Chief Toilet Cleaner

(icj1, 25 January 2015 06:02)

CTC, I’m puzzled where you get this “8x less gold reserves compared to the US”, because the vast quantity of gold held in the US is foreign owned and not by the US.
Secondly governments obtain income by taxation and last time I looked there was more tax cutting than collecting because the economy is not doing well. Thirdly, for the western countries the word default is never used, it called financial readjustment and in 2008/2009 the US had those on two occasions. The same applies with the word Depression, when the GFC hit, the US had the Great Recession even though in the 1930s the unemployment was 19% whereas academics in the US state its 22%.
Russia defaulted but that was in the early 1990s when it was broke. This is not 1992 but 2015. However, the Russian economy is not diversified and that is a major weakness, but its not going to cause a collapse of Russia.
US property rights, well you can p*** on that because wealthy foreigners are very careful when thinking of buying property in the US today simply because Washington may decide they don’t like their country and their assets are frozen. So much for your property rights.
Debt in the US is at 19 trillion and all the US is doing is paying interest on that money. They are now negotiating for the next trillion to kick in December 2015.
Russia can get all the money it needs in Asia.
P.S. CTC = Chief Toilet Cleaner

(pss, 26 January 2015 14:49)

Yes and the US level of unemployment is 5.8% and falling while growth is at 2.8% per month. Meanwhile the US debt is at 19 trillion and another trillion on the way, but hey due to the force field of freedom and democracy its all sustainable. The US has limitless of everything especially BS.
Then there is the official US inflation rate of .08%, but here is the trick, if its so low why are prices rising in the supermarket on a regular basis?????? With no real wage increase since 2008??????? In fact the only jobs appearing in the notices are part time or temporary positions, hmmmmm????
People like you would believe that water flows up a waterfall just because TV told you so.
The Chinese government owns about 1/3 of US not the Chinese billionaires. The Chinese rich are not stupid, in fact they have very little investment in the US or Australia apart from homes they have purchased. Once again its the Chinese Government that has purchased businesses not individuals. You see the Chinese Government has the clout to ruin Australia and the US.
The so called Russian oligarchs that own property in the US are of similar mind to George Soros and they were kicked out because they were starting to rape Russia.
I’m interested to know if Russia has oligarchs what do you call people like Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Charles Koch or George Soros???? Friends of the earth, talk about brainwashing.

All 3 big rating agencies work as US state institutions and FED departments. They depend on their clients while their clients depend of the government and FED. In 2014 Russia has paid out USD 130 bln. and what do we have instead ? Some BBB- ! Is it normal for a state with no budget deficit with positive trading saldo and with 10% of GDP state debts ? Same with the biggest Russian companies. Meanwhile the US with their 18 trillion debts enjoy AAA … Yes Serbia is in a heavy situation because unlike Russia you cannot developing without loans. But I wouldn’t make a tragedy of it because all those ratings are just another tool of pressure. Besides money can come from where you do not expect now. Including the Arab world conflicting with the west over many issues now.

(rote, 21 January 2015 13:47)

When the GFC occurred in 2008 it uncovered that all these US rating agencies had given the “toxic loans” a AAA+ rating.
Can anyone imagine that a country that has 19 trillion debt, or 130% of GDP (and negotiations are on the way now for the next trillion) is also AAA rated? The US economy is supposedly now 17 trillion, but when you take into account that prior to 2008 it was only 12 trillion, how could it jump to that level in such a short time when it economy has not really recovered and still have the AAA rating??????
That is why the Asian financial institutions no longer use any of them.

Amnesty, sj, and rote,
Of course whether they give Serbia a BB- rating with a negative outlook or give the US a AAA rating means nothing to someone who is looking through sale papers to buy food this week or have to worry about whether they have enough on their credit card to be able to fill the tank on their car. But you know it matters in the business world or it would not continue to do so. Your dismissal of its importance was not worth the time it took to write the post.

(think about it, 22 January 2015 11:13)

Let me repeat, the US rating agencies had given the “toxic loans” a AAA+ rating when in fact they should have been ringing alarm bells and as a consequence they were one of the major players that casued the GFC.
Yes it is true the US rating agencies did matter in the business world up to 2008. The money is now in Asia and Asian bankers do not use US rating agencies because they do not trust them. Standard & Poor's and others have been doing backflips trying to regain credibility, but to little avail.
You have to get away from one dimentional thinking. The west is not the big player any more, its Asia.

Is this the same Standard & Poor's (S&P) credit agency that rated fraudulent, ponzie-scheme operations such as Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns and others with AAA ratings?

(think about it, 22 January 2015 11:13) ... it matters in the business world or it would not continue to do so. Your dismissal of its importance was not worth the time it took to write the post.

-----

My dismissal is irrelavnt; however, the bankruptcy of Lehman Bros, Bear Stearns et al., certainly has more to do with the lack of S&P credit rating credibility.

(sj, 22 January 2015 12:53)
Of course China does not need to see these ratings, they are smart enough to only loan money to Serbia to pay Chinese businesses to work in Serbia. Therefore the money on passes from Chinese to Serbs to Chinese building a stronger economy in China. Then Serbia is stuck with the payments and interest. So China actually gets a 200% return on its investment. They get the original money back immediately in investment in Chinese businesses and then they get the money back a second time per loan agreement. China has shown its cunning.
While the west donates money to Serbia to use (or pocket) and never receives anything in return.
But I stick to my original posts it is insignificant low lifes that say the credit ratings do not matter. Apparently someone else thinks they do or it would not be news.

By the way aren't you the one who is constantly announcing on here when Croatia or other countries rating takes a dive, or claiming that a certain country bonds have hit junk status???? Matters then, but not when it is Serbia, right?

(icj1, 25 January 2015 06:02)

CTC, I’m puzzled where you get this “8x less gold reserves compared to the US”, because the vast quantity of gold held in the US is foreign owned and not by the US.
Secondly governments obtain income by taxation and last time I looked there was more tax cutting than collecting because the economy is not doing well. Thirdly, for the western countries the word default is never used, it called financial readjustment and in 2008/2009 the US had those on two occasions. The same applies with the word Depression, when the GFC hit, the US had the Great Recession even though in the 1930s the unemployment was 19% whereas academics in the US state its 22%.
Russia defaulted but that was in the early 1990s when it was broke. This is not 1992 but 2015. However, the Russian economy is not diversified and that is a major weakness, but its not going to cause a collapse of Russia.
US property rights, well you can p*** on that because wealthy foreigners are very careful when thinking of buying property in the US today simply because Washington may decide they don’t like their country and their assets are frozen. So much for your property rights.
Debt in the US is at 19 trillion and all the US is doing is paying interest on that money. They are now negotiating for the next trillion to kick in December 2015.
Russia can get all the money it needs in Asia.
P.S. CTC = Chief Toilet Cleaner

In 2014 Russia has paid out USD 130 bln. and what do we have instead ? Some BBB- ! Is it normal for a state with no budget deficit with positive trading saldo and with 10% of GDP state debts ? Same with the biggest Russian companies. Meanwhile the US with their 18 trillion debts enjoy AAA (rote, 21 January 2015 13:47)

Oh, yeah, because the US can service the 18 trillion debt whereas the probability of Russia doing the same is much smaller, even though Russia has a smaller debt for the simple fact that the Russian economy is much weaker than US'. The US has never defaulted; whereas Russia has. Russia has 8x less gold reserves compared to the US, despite the fantasies of the CE of B92 forums sj. The US has a diversified econonomy; whereas Russia doesn't. US has property rights; in Russia property rights are virtually non-existent. US is predictable; Russia is not since everything is decided at a single man's whims. So, in summary, Russia presents a much higher risk than the US and hence the BBB- credit rating. Unfortunately, even though Kremlin's propaganda is pretty good at brainwashing you, it can't do much to improve Russia's creditworthiness. The quality of the propagranda is not a criteria that investors take into account when deciding where to put their money lol

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

(think again, 23 January 2015 01:14)

What is your point with “Chinese businesses”? Serbia is a small country and it does not have skilled workforce in every area of endeavour. The Chinese recently built a bridge over the Danube in Belgrade simply because Serbia does not have sufficient technical expertise so Chinese engineers were used, but they also used local labor and materials.
“.....west donates money to Serbia and never receives anything in return”
Yes the west just gives and gives. Where were you when they handed out brains? Playing hide and seek?
“...Croatia or other countries rating takes a dive..Matters then, but not when it is Serbia, right”
Croatia has always been touted as a far richer country than Serbia. Well without EU aid its f****. Brussels has had to let Croatia stand alone as they cannot afford to prop it up and look at the final result – near bankrupt. That is my point.

It's such a honor to have a visionary like you in these forums. It's so unfortunate that most of the world does not see what you see, but I'm sure that generations to come will remember the teachings of the CE of B92 forums sj who unfortunately are two advanced for our time!

P.S. CE = Chief Economist
(icj1, 25 January 2015 06:17)

Since CTC shares a room in the hospital with Leonard, how is he going? Is he recovering from his psychosis?
P.S. CTC = Chief Toilet Cleaner

(pss, 26 January 2015 14:49)

Yes and the US level of unemployment is 5.8% and falling while growth is at 2.8% per month. Meanwhile the US debt is at 19 trillion and another trillion on the way, but hey due to the force field of freedom and democracy its all sustainable. The US has limitless of everything especially BS.
Then there is the official US inflation rate of .08%, but here is the trick, if its so low why are prices rising in the supermarket on a regular basis?????? With no real wage increase since 2008??????? In fact the only jobs appearing in the notices are part time or temporary positions, hmmmmm????
People like you would believe that water flows up a waterfall just because TV told you so.
The Chinese government owns about 1/3 of US not the Chinese billionaires. The Chinese rich are not stupid, in fact they have very little investment in the US or Australia apart from homes they have purchased. Once again its the Chinese Government that has purchased businesses not individuals. You see the Chinese Government has the clout to ruin Australia and the US.
The so called Russian oligarchs that own property in the US are of similar mind to George Soros and they were kicked out because they were starting to rape Russia.
I’m interested to know if Russia has oligarchs what do you call people like Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Charles Koch or George Soros???? Friends of the earth, talk about brainwashing.

you have to get away from one dimentional thinking. The west is not the big player any more, its Asia.
(sj, 22 January 2015 12:53)

It's such a honor to have a visionary like you in these forums. It's so unfortunate that most of the world does not see what you see, but I'm sure that generations to come will remember the teachings of the CE of B92 forums sj who unfortunately are two advanced for our time!

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

sj,
Should anyone actually believe the crap sj posts please do not reveal your true identity as I am sure you would be enjoying a padded room by nightfall.
As far as gold reserves the US does OWN the largest in the world. China and Russia have increased their amounts China by 75% and Russia by 100% recently. However that puts China at about 12-13% of what the US owns, and Russia at about 14%.
See sj cannot come up with facts, that is why he never shows any supporting sources.
As he claims that forign investors are afraid to hold assets in the US for fear of having them frozen is as idiotic statement as ever made. Some of the largest property investors are of Chinese and Russian billionaires who choose to have property in the US to keep their home governments from eventually confiscating them for the state. Nearly all of the Russian oligarchs that own property in the US have not been affected by the sanctions as they tend to be in opposition to Putin.
As far as the Russian economy there is no interest in causing its collapse, but merely to show Putin he is not as omnipotent as he thinks.
Does anyone think the oil glut happened by coincidence. With Russia relying almost solely on oil reserves to boost its economy and military capabilities, it needs a little shock therapy.
But believe sj if you like, it is harmless, just don't let anyone know you are that foolish for your own sake.

sj,
You are not even a challenge anymore. Anyone with a 5th grade education can see through your charade, anyone more educated can only laugh.
Unemployment rate-many ways to compute that and get differing numbers but the accepted method is to take your actual potential workforce which does not include retired, disabled, or spouses who are in one income families, nor the school age. Then you take those activiely seeking work and divide. There are still those who want to live off the social network, incarcerated. But basically as I have always told my children any one in the US that wants to work CAN find a job, it may not be their dream job but it will pay the bills.
last wage increase 2008--You are getting better you use to claim that minimum wage has not been raised in 15 years. It is actually 2009. But if you knew anything about finance you would know that raising the minimum wage does not actually help the economy. Only about 2% of US workers make minimum wage, but raising it is like a snow ball rolling down a hill it causes other wages to rise, and all goods to increase in price so a few months after the hike the minimum wage worker actually has less spending ability than before.
Chinese govt owns 1/3 of the US-such an outrageous lie, what can anyone say in response.
Russian billionaires that have invested in the US, are outcasts in Russia because they oppose Putin, pure and simple.
Warren, Gates, etc are investors, entrepreneurs, very smart business men.