French police identify 3 suspects in Paris massacre

Direct consequence of flawed Western foreign policy of supporting Islamist movements for geo-political interests. Bosnia, Kosovo-Metohija, Libya, Syria... you empower Islamists and this is what happens. It isn't the first time. The organizers of 9/11 spent time in Bosnia in the 90s, Fort Dix was attacked by Albanian Islamists, the American military base in Germany was attacked by those upstanding secular kosovar boy scouts and now this.

Yes Islamism is something that needs to be confronted, but first Westerners must ask their own politicians why have they been empowering terrorists since 1990s.

Yesterday, Bosnia and Kosovo came to Paris.

" No base in Germany was attacked. Spend a minute on Google and find out why your statements are incorrect."
(Air is Wrong, 8 January 2015 11:52)

Yes. Incorrect information! Correct would have been: A bus carrying US army personal was attacked by a Kosovo Albanian muslim in Germany near the Frakfurt airbase. He executed two persons and severely injured two other ones.

"Yesterday, Bosnia and Kosovo came to Paris."

...and today Ari Gold your opinions are stupid still. No matter how hard you try to portray the Kosovo conflict as a religious one, it won't change the nature of it. by the way, Zeri & Koha have today published cartoons from Charlie Hedbo that seem to have offended so many Muslims. I hope the press in the West does the same because this is a direct assault, not only on freedom of expression, but on free thought and if yesterdays events don't embolden them, then nothing will. as for you Ari Gold, you're a lost cause, you're the Orthodox version of Muslim idiots

if Europe at some point in time (never in my lifetime or in yours) becomes a Muslim majority continent, I really don't care.
(Nikolle, 9 January 2015 00:06)

This would be the appropriate response by someone like yourself who lives in a predominantly Islamic society.I wouldn't and I am certain the overwhelming majority of Christians and other faiths in Europe wouldn't entertain the thought of living in a theocratic society ruled by the barbarism of Koran.When you have a religion, in which the holy book commands:
"And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush"Surah 9 Verse 5 it does sow the seeds for a religious war.Wars,however,will take place in the future and they will be fought along cultural but mainly religious lines.

It looks like we are being fed another story by the state-controlled western "free" press. Criminal cases are not solved as quickly or as easily as this, unless of course we are watching a Hollywood film. In the real world police investigations take weeks, months or years, and even then they can end inconclusively. In the virtual reality world in which we now live, the "guilty" are identified quickly and sometimes killed "resisting arrest," after which the case is closed.

I watched the events of 9/11 live on the BBC. The official story of what happened on that day was released within 24-48 hours. We "knew" the identity of the hijackers and the criminal mastermind behind them. We heard how they had learnt to fly at a small flight school in the US which used tiny training aircraft about the size of a Fiat 500 with wings. We heard that the hijackers had gone out boozing the night before 9/11 and that they had left a Boeing Flight Manual (in Arabic) in their car in the airport car park. The hijackers used "box cutters" to threaten passengers and crew and take over 4 planes. (In England we call "box cutters" Stanley knives. A "box cutter" has a small triangular blade with a 2cm cutting edge; it is great for opening cardboard boxes, but rubbish for stabbing people. Anyway, the long and the short of it is that the 9/11 story is fabricated rubbish as I expect this Paris story will be.

I hope the press in the West does the same because this is a direct assault, not only on freedom of expression, but on free thought and if yesterdays events don't embolden them, then nothing will.
(Nikolle,

Has is just occurred to you that the West should be aware of Muslim "idiots"? You probably ignore that Islam has been attacking and slaughtering the Christian world openly for the last 150 years: millions of orthodox Christians were systematically slaughtered in Ottoman Empire during WW1 - that made Hitler's pogrom against the Jews rather amateurish. Currently ,murderous Islam is reappearing via its slaughter of Christians in Nigeria,Central African Republic, Russia, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Pakistan, Indonesia and Hindus in India.

Has is also occurred to you Clerics of Islam issued a death sentence for the staff of Charlie Hebdo. "Soldiers of Islam" from a major Islamic organization that "promotes" Islam around the world, and has millions of dollars and thousands of foot soldiers, carried out the sentence according to the "law" of their Islamic religion. This was not a minor splinter group -- or cult of crazies. This was orthodox Islam.
It's only Western moronic leaders like Hollande , Merkel and Cameron who refuse to see where Europe is heading. It is high time that the man on the street stops these moronic leaders from destroying Europe, which took our ancestors hundreds of years to build.

I'm no muslim but your view is kind of narrow. The Christian crusades were more worse than todays islamic terrorist attacks.

Your views are unhealthy!
(Demi, 8 January 2015 15:30
----------------------------------
This is your argument? How long ago was that? Haven't we moved on from that?
Well, it seems the whole world has but not Muslims. They are still behaving like they live in the 7th century. When are Muslims going to move into 21st century like all other humans?

@rot: Seriously you are trying to "sell us" ottoman empire as..contribution to civilisation? Do yourself a favor and go back to school, and think twice before you humiliate yourself in public forums

@nicole or whatever: you havent realised yet what comes ahead. People in Europe are openly now against muslims, these killings marked the end of our tolerance. Feel free of course to say your opinion, without the fear of some muslim coming to kill you because they dont like what you say. But this is a privilege that your people tried to kill. We will protect our society, by keeping you out.

They claim that Christians are slaughtering them in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Chechnya, in Palestine and before that in Algeria, in Egypt, in Mali... so either you're both lying, or you're both killing each other. in which case there is no really is no difference between you.
Nikolle

No they don't.You haven't got any evidence of this,have you?
You seem to confuse Bush's actions in those countries with the feelings of Christians around the world.Millions of Christians demonstrated on the Streets of Paris,London and other European countries against the wars.Iraq was invaded and occupied primarily to help U.S. and UK companies gain control of Iraq’s oil industry and reserves and much of its economy ,and to steal trillions of dollars of oil profits,it wasn't a war against Muslims.On the other hand ,the motive behind the extermination of Christians by the Ottomans was religion alone.The Ottomans were pursuing the Islamic purity in Turkey.

Islams only "contribution" to humanity: terrorism!

Whether certain people like it or not, the killings turned the European society against muslims. Changes will be visible soon, and will be driven by simple people as well as governments.

To those trying to justify the killings using the crusades as an excuse, they should be ashamed of themselves. They can express their opinion in islamist turkey or syria or wherever they wish - as long as they are not in Europe.

(Nikolle,

Your modesty and truthfulness is really breathtaking. You're a true pacifist who's been shouting from the top of the roof all these years against the crimes your US protectors have been committing in Iraq,Syria,Libya and Afganistan(conveniently converted into Christian crimes to fit your narrative).I've never hidden my views on mass Islamic immigration in Europe and the main reason behind those views is the Muslims unwillingness to integrate within European societies.When you go to Rome you do as the Romans do and don't try to import Islam and embed it into European culture.Slowly and stealthily Muslims are invading Europe, legally or otherwise.Their first demand is the building of Mosques..When they reach a certain percentage, Muslims will demand shariah law (it's already a practice). Initially it will be for Muslims. Soon the non Muslims will also be forced to abide by sharia.Recently, Shaheb Hassan, the official speaker for the Islamic Council of Britain, called on the British to exchange their political institutions for an Islamic regime! He said: "Simply apply the Shariah, and this country would become a peace garden: amputate a thief's hand, and no one would steal; stone the adulterer and no one would commit adultery. British society would benefit greatly by adopting the Islamic Shariah."The simplest thing to do would be to deport Shaheb Hassan back to a country that fits with his needs but the politically correct and cowards would not want to do that.

Finally if Muslims agree not to insult other religions then I therefore feel that non-Muslims shouldn't insult Islam.
(The Confesser, 8 January 2015 19:10)
==============================
That's not enough. Muslims have to agree not to kill innocent Christians any more. Did you hear what Boko Haram just did? Muslims are terrorizing Christians all over the world now, especially in their own countries and you want us to stop insulting you? You are KILLING US and you worry about us insulting you???

oh dear, is there an an end to your conspiracy addled mind Thomas?

"Fort Dix was attacked by Albanian Islamists, the American military base in Germany was attacked by those upstanding secular kosovar boy scouts and now this."

Educate yourself. Fort Dix was not attacked. No base in Germany was attacked. Spend a minute on Google and find out why your statements are incorrect.

Islams only "contribution" to humanity: terrorism!
(MikeC, 8 January 2015 14:29)


I'm no muslim but your view is kind of narrow. The Christian crusades were more worse than todays islamic terrorist attacks.

Your views are unhealthy!

i've heard that view Leonidas. for what its worth, i don't subscribe to it. judging from the comments you have made previously, i have pigeoned holed you in the Andres Breivik category, not in the sense that you approve of his killing people, but of agreeing with his views, but not his methods. as far as I'm concerned all religious nuts are dangerous, even those of the Christian Orthodox faith. if you want me to expand it further, all religious people are potentially dangerous for the simple reason that they believe in rubbish, because that's what religion ultimately is, surrender of reason in favour of faith. so as a Christian, you're guilty of the same gullibility as any Muslim. to me, you're inverses of the same coin. now, you can give me all the arguments i have heard and read about the Christian legacy of Europe and all that, it means nothing to me. as for this "You probably ignore that Islam has been attacking and slaughtering the Christian world openly for the last 150 years:" i tell you what, it depends what you read and more importantly how you read. after all, listening to a lot of perceived Muslim injustices, they claim that Christians are slaughtering them in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Chechnya, in Palestine and before that in Algeria, in Egypt, in Mali... so either you're both lying, or you're both killing each other. in which case there is no really is no difference between you

EIGHTEEN years old?!! OMG!

"
Yes. Incorrect information! Correct would have been: A bus carrying US army personal was attacked by a Kosovo Albanian muslim in Germany near the Frakfurt airbase. He executed two persons and severely injured two other ones.
(This is correct, 8 January 2015 12:57)"

Again incorrect. There were no Army personnel injured or killed in the attack. They were members of the United States Air Force. They were attacked at the Frankfurt Airport.

"Again incorrect. There were no Army personnel injured or killed in the attack. They were members of the United States Air Force. "
(Sorry ...but getting closer., 8 January 2015 15:22)

Don't members of the US Air Force belong to the US army?

Ari Gold.

Unfortunately every country in Europe including Serbia and Kosova has extremist elements. In Kosova our interior ministry and security bodys together with our partners the US and EU are doing the outmost to minimize and erase this kind of elements. This kind of elements are not welcome in Kosova.

Some of the work Kosova has done to stop terrorism in Europe:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-2721671/Kosovo-police-arrest-40-alleged-Islamic-radicals.html

http://www.dw.de/kosovo-police-arrest-man-suspected-of-planning-terrorist-attack/a-18153009

@Nikolle:

You're probably going to label me a hypocrite or regard this as double standard but judging by your name I assume you're a non-Muslim so therefore I don't feel it's your place nor the place of other non-Muslims to use the term 'Muslim idiots' however if a Muslim uses that term it's less offensive in my opinion.The way I see it Muslims & non-Muslims alike don't have to be fond of all Muslims and if a non-Muslim justifiably calls a Muslim an 'idiot' I'm basically fine with it however as I stated or indicated that in my opinion that if someone has to use the term 'Muslim idiot(s) it should be Muslims who can say it not non-Muslims.Finally if Muslims agree not to insult other religions then I therefore feel that non-Muslims shouldn't insult Islam.

".Finally if Muslims agree not to insult other religions then I therefore feel that non-Muslims shouldn't insult Islam."

what the hell is this rubbish? insult Islam? how is a cartoon insulting to a supposedly divine and total truth? i am told very often by muslims that i am going to burn in hell for being an atheist. it is not nice to hear that, but i tolerate it. so, why should they have the right to say that to me? as far as i can tell, muslims, those who take offence at having their faith questioned are yet to be mentally emancipated. the first act of emancipation is laughing and mocking and questioning authority; the very fact that they say we can't question Mohammed, make fun of him, satire him means they are mental slaves to an ideology. i'm sorry but, i don't have to be a slave to that and i don't have to have my right to free enquiry put at risk by that. I can make fun of any belief system, just like anyone can make fun of mine.

can you not comprehend what you're reading Leonidas? i wrote Muslim PERCEIVED injustices, I did not say I MYSELF perceive them like that. just like YOU perceive the crimes of the Ottomans to be Islamic, Muslims perceive the crimes that you yourself label Western/American crimes to be Christian crimes. if you can't comprehend what you're reading it really isn't my problem. your view you though pretty much proves what i've always suspected about the two major Abrahamic faiths, you're both really paranoid

My people? What am I french Algerian now? As for your threats its all piffle

Scepticism

It’s a big problem for me to educate someone using 1500 characters only. Maybe you think that Ottomans means Turks then you look funny coz when they intruded Europe first in 14-th century and second time in 15-th proto-Turks and proto-Arabs were discriminated minorities of the Empire. Ottomans (Atamans) were Cossack commanders of the south wing of the Great Horde that occupied Europe in 1318 - 1348. And it was an Orthodox Christian Empire ruled by the Slavs and the Caucasians. The Sultans and Pashas despised the proto-Turks and did not knew their language.

Christians were not discriminated while the most known Sultans and Khalifs were born and buried in a small Greek/Bulgar town of Adrianopole now Erdirne. Those were Sultans Mehmet-I , Murad-II , Selim-I , Murad-IV, Suleiman-II , Ahmed-I , Pasha Ismail ect. And if you look at their lifetime portraits you will find no Turkish appearance there. Role of the Turks increased only in 18-19 centuries. But before Constantinople was seized in 1453 Islam existed only as a part of Christianity.

Fairy tales about Crusaders has nothing to do with what is said because none of the thousands of documents available is mentioning Islam or the Muslims. They simply did not exist yet and the Ottoman invasion was a Christian invasion of the Great Horde when the Europeans were still sitting on their trees. So the question is what was the European tribute to the civilization before the fall of the Horde in late 17 century ?

""Again incorrect. There were no Army personnel injured or killed in the attack. They were members of the United States Air Force. "
(Sorry ...but getting closer., 8 January 2015 15:22)

Don't members of the US Air Force belong to the US army?
(Questioner, 8 January 2015 17)

No. They became separate devices in 1947.

Peggy

How can you judge the Muslims looking at the bastards who know nothing about Islam translated as Obedience ? They shout Allah Akbar and kill each other while the white skins provoke all those wars. Don't be a victim of the black or white propaganda ! Jesus ( Isa ) is mentioned in Quran 27 times while Mohammad only 4 ! If you remember Jesus the night before crucifix prayed to his father “Illi Illi will you leave me alone ?” In Russian ПАЛЕЯ written long before the Bible you will find Ala Ala instead of Ili Ili … So even Allah is not Arabian ! Besides before 15-th century Islam existed as part of Christianity. So things are not so evident. To tell the truth I am very disappointed about the discussion’s course and I gave poor comments to almost all whom I usually give "likes".

Europe is harvesting it’s own idiotism starting since the Algerian war and we all know that most powerful terroristic organizations like Al Qaeda , Taliban and IS were built by the USA. All Syrian “opposition” gangs trained by the US instructors in Jordan are part of the IS now. Here’s the problem while the discussed massacre of the provokers is only one of the sequences. Who allowed them spit at the things millions are praying at ? Why nobody is discussing here the total degradation of the continent - the LGBT , family terrorism in Norway , fascism in Lithuania , Nazism in Ukraine ect. Below there is a film about how common Muslims live.

http://snob.ru/selected/entry/65698

" No base in Germany was attacked. Spend a minute on Google and find out why your statements are incorrect."
(Air is Wrong, 8 January 2015 11:52)

Yes. Incorrect information! Correct would have been: A bus carrying US army personal was attacked by a Kosovo Albanian muslim in Germany near the Frakfurt airbase. He executed two persons and severely injured two other ones.
(This is correct, 8 January 2015 12:57)

I agree. If this is the "real" Ari Gold he needs to get sobered-up or get his head examined ASAP. If not, who ever wrote that provocative comment is evil.

Also, whoever approved that provocative comment is misinformed or just as evil.

They were sentenced to 3 years for sponsoring terrorism?
That's your first mistake.
Second mistake is you didn't keep a close enough eye on convicted terrorists.

Hopefully, you will learn and not make a third mistake.
Maybe more Western countries need to open their own GITMO or change your sentencing laws when it comes to terrorism.

Islams only "contribution" to humanity: terrorism!
(MikeC, 8 January 2015 14:29)

How dare you ! In late 15-th century when what is known as Ottoman Empire entered Europe there were no states here and unless in 1572 100 000 men strong troops were buried 70 km south of Moscow they would seize 100% of the continent in a few years. Ottomans were one head higher of all the Europeans in everything. In the French Court the halls and corridors were covered with dry grass to be changed each time smell became terrible because toilets appeared in France only in 17 century. Also Muslims taught the Europeans to wash their hands and take bath. To say nothing of arms production, trade , cartography , astronomy , mathematics , medicine and other sciences where Europeans were so backward and dark.

I am not here to praise the Muslims but when you panic please have some brakes of your own. Muslim terrorism is a long story while the beneficiaries always remain in the shadow. What I want mean is that journalists are warriors (combatants) in civilian uniforms. All the wars are launched and conducted with them so the coming funerals should be military ones with escort and salute. They died heroically on the battlefield in their trenches RIP. Who deserved such a fate lest were the poor police officers RIP too. Someone is pushing us to confessional disaster and unless Europe stops it will help the IS and their US boss. Seems that we are programmed to go crazy and nothing can stop us.

Starting with you Peggy what the heck are you talking about?! I ain't a killer and as for you Nikolle what part of the last paragraph of my comments you didn't understand??

@ Leonidas

The whole Muslim population of Europe in 2010, was around 6%, so this narrative that Muslims will soon dominate the continent is grossly exaggerated and quite frankly irrational. but do you know what? to me its totally immaterial. Europe has gone through many changes before because human beings ultimately change. if Europe at some point in time (never in my lifetime or in yours) becomes a Muslim majority continent, I really don't care. as long as European people have good lives, it doesn't make a single difference to me whether they all be Jews, Atheists, Christians, Satanists. what is going on right now in the Islamic faith is that there is a civil war within it, between hardline traditionalists and those who accept the modern world and want to reform their faith with it.

You seem to confuse Bush's actions in those countries with the feelings of Christians around the world.
(Leonidas, 9 January 2015 20:14)

And you seem to confuse the actions or some individuals with the feelings of Muslims around the world. So, again, you go back to proving Nikolle's point that either both Muslims and Christians are lying, or they're both killing each other, in which case there is no really is no difference between them.

Proof? Go and enter an Islamic chat room and see how they view those wars. They view them how you view the Ottomans, religiously inspired. You take the same line that they take when it comes to excusing the Ottomans, it wasn't Muslims doing those things it was Turks. You both have a procecuted mentality, which when mixed with paranoia is truly lethal, as we've just seen. What you both need is to stop belieing in rubbish. As for Europe, I stand by what I said, what is important to me is that people have good lives. What seems important to you is that people are a certain way

"Wars,however,will take place in the future and they will be fought along cultural but mainly religious lines."

ironic isn't it? god's people fighting over who has the best means of transmitting his message. you can't separate religion from its eschatological element and this why you people are dangerous

Starting with you Peggy what the heck are you talking about?! I ain't a killer
================================
Obviously I didn't mean you personally.

I find your arguments really amusing: 'the muslim chatrooms” are your evidence that US’s wars in Iraq ,Afganistan, Libya and Syria are perceived by Muslims as Christian crusades.How many Muslims did you chat to? 10,20,50?Are they a representative sample of muslims around the world? Do you compare the views of the “muslims in the chatrooms” with the millions of Christians and other faiths who have taken to the streets of major cities in Europe voicing their opposition against the war in Iraq? Have you seen pictures of these demonstrators carrying banners reading“not in my name” ?Of course you haven’t. No Albanian has. Instead you’re repeating cold war-era school myths and lies about the causes of the US invasions in the Middle East masquerading them as “human rights” and “democracy”. You only have to visit the archives of this site and read the Albanian’s postings on articles related to the above.I've got to admit though that Albanians excel in showing their clan loyalty to their Western masters.As Mark Twain said “If you pick up a starving dog and give him food he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man.”

BTW Turkey didn't commit a genocide against citizens of another country but against its own Christian citizens.

So, again, you go back to proving Nikolle's point that either both Muslims and Christians are lying, or they're both killing each other, in which case there is no really is no difference between them.
(icj1, 10 January 2015 16:18)

On the contrary it's you and your double Nicolle who are lying by trying to morph Bush's criminal wars in Middle East into Christian crusades and their perception by Muslims as such.You must be a frequent visitor of "muslim Chat rooms" to concur with your double's "evidence".

, or they're both killing each other, in which case there is no really is no difference between them.
(icj1, 10 January 2015 16:18)
================================
Seems to be that it's only the Islamic extreemists who are terrorizing the whole world not Christians.
I keep hearing how it's only the minority of Muslims who are terrorists and the whole religion should not be judged by them. Well, if it's only the minority who hold these views then how come the majority cannot weed them out and take care of horror? What's holding them back?

"...with the millions of Christians and other faiths who have taken to the streets of major cities in Europe voicing their opposition against the war in Iraq?" I have read this before. thing is though, I remember those marches, but then again, 1 million people, to now take your figure, is not the whole population is it? I am told that in London alone 1 million went to protest against the war, but London is a city of approximately 13 million, that means 12 million didn't march against the war. its easy to play around with statistics. "BTW Turkey didn't commit a genocide against citizens of another country but against its own Christian citizens." your point though was that those were religiously inspired crimes, my point was that your perception of them is the same as those of Islamists who view what you term Western crimes as religious. it is not my problem if you're both wrong

"Yesterday, Bosnia and Kosovo came to Paris."

...and today Ari Gold your opinions are stupid still. No matter how hard you try to portray the Kosovo conflict as a religious one, it won't change the nature of it. by the way, Zeri & Koha have today published cartoons from Charlie Hedbo that seem to have offended so many Muslims. I hope the press in the West does the same because this is a direct assault, not only on freedom of expression, but on free thought and if yesterdays events don't embolden them, then nothing will. as for you Ari Gold, you're a lost cause, you're the Orthodox version of Muslim idiots

Ari Gold.

Unfortunately every country in Europe including Serbia and Kosova has extremist elements. In Kosova our interior ministry and security bodys together with our partners the US and EU are doing the outmost to minimize and erase this kind of elements. This kind of elements are not welcome in Kosova.

Some of the work Kosova has done to stop terrorism in Europe:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-2721671/Kosovo-police-arrest-40-alleged-Islamic-radicals.html

http://www.dw.de/kosovo-police-arrest-man-suspected-of-planning-terrorist-attack/a-18153009

"Fort Dix was attacked by Albanian Islamists, the American military base in Germany was attacked by those upstanding secular kosovar boy scouts and now this."

Educate yourself. Fort Dix was not attacked. No base in Germany was attacked. Spend a minute on Google and find out why your statements are incorrect.

oh dear, is there an an end to your conspiracy addled mind Thomas?

Islams only "contribution" to humanity: terrorism!
(MikeC, 8 January 2015 14:29)

How dare you ! In late 15-th century when what is known as Ottoman Empire entered Europe there were no states here and unless in 1572 100 000 men strong troops were buried 70 km south of Moscow they would seize 100% of the continent in a few years. Ottomans were one head higher of all the Europeans in everything. In the French Court the halls and corridors were covered with dry grass to be changed each time smell became terrible because toilets appeared in France only in 17 century. Also Muslims taught the Europeans to wash their hands and take bath. To say nothing of arms production, trade , cartography , astronomy , mathematics , medicine and other sciences where Europeans were so backward and dark.

I am not here to praise the Muslims but when you panic please have some brakes of your own. Muslim terrorism is a long story while the beneficiaries always remain in the shadow. What I want mean is that journalists are warriors (combatants) in civilian uniforms. All the wars are launched and conducted with them so the coming funerals should be military ones with escort and salute. They died heroically on the battlefield in their trenches RIP. Who deserved such a fate lest were the poor police officers RIP too. Someone is pushing us to confessional disaster and unless Europe stops it will help the IS and their US boss. Seems that we are programmed to go crazy and nothing can stop us.

My people? What am I french Algerian now? As for your threats its all piffle

Scepticism

It’s a big problem for me to educate someone using 1500 characters only. Maybe you think that Ottomans means Turks then you look funny coz when they intruded Europe first in 14-th century and second time in 15-th proto-Turks and proto-Arabs were discriminated minorities of the Empire. Ottomans (Atamans) were Cossack commanders of the south wing of the Great Horde that occupied Europe in 1318 - 1348. And it was an Orthodox Christian Empire ruled by the Slavs and the Caucasians. The Sultans and Pashas despised the proto-Turks and did not knew their language.

Christians were not discriminated while the most known Sultans and Khalifs were born and buried in a small Greek/Bulgar town of Adrianopole now Erdirne. Those were Sultans Mehmet-I , Murad-II , Selim-I , Murad-IV, Suleiman-II , Ahmed-I , Pasha Ismail ect. And if you look at their lifetime portraits you will find no Turkish appearance there. Role of the Turks increased only in 18-19 centuries. But before Constantinople was seized in 1453 Islam existed only as a part of Christianity.

Fairy tales about Crusaders has nothing to do with what is said because none of the thousands of documents available is mentioning Islam or the Muslims. They simply did not exist yet and the Ottoman invasion was a Christian invasion of the Great Horde when the Europeans were still sitting on their trees. So the question is what was the European tribute to the civilization before the fall of the Horde in late 17 century ?

i've heard that view Leonidas. for what its worth, i don't subscribe to it. judging from the comments you have made previously, i have pigeoned holed you in the Andres Breivik category, not in the sense that you approve of his killing people, but of agreeing with his views, but not his methods. as far as I'm concerned all religious nuts are dangerous, even those of the Christian Orthodox faith. if you want me to expand it further, all religious people are potentially dangerous for the simple reason that they believe in rubbish, because that's what religion ultimately is, surrender of reason in favour of faith. so as a Christian, you're guilty of the same gullibility as any Muslim. to me, you're inverses of the same coin. now, you can give me all the arguments i have heard and read about the Christian legacy of Europe and all that, it means nothing to me. as for this "You probably ignore that Islam has been attacking and slaughtering the Christian world openly for the last 150 years:" i tell you what, it depends what you read and more importantly how you read. after all, listening to a lot of perceived Muslim injustices, they claim that Christians are slaughtering them in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Chechnya, in Palestine and before that in Algeria, in Egypt, in Mali... so either you're both lying, or you're both killing each other. in which case there is no really is no difference between you

can you not comprehend what you're reading Leonidas? i wrote Muslim PERCEIVED injustices, I did not say I MYSELF perceive them like that. just like YOU perceive the crimes of the Ottomans to be Islamic, Muslims perceive the crimes that you yourself label Western/American crimes to be Christian crimes. if you can't comprehend what you're reading it really isn't my problem. your view you though pretty much proves what i've always suspected about the two major Abrahamic faiths, you're both really paranoid

It looks like we are being fed another story by the state-controlled western "free" press. Criminal cases are not solved as quickly or as easily as this, unless of course we are watching a Hollywood film. In the real world police investigations take weeks, months or years, and even then they can end inconclusively. In the virtual reality world in which we now live, the "guilty" are identified quickly and sometimes killed "resisting arrest," after which the case is closed.

I watched the events of 9/11 live on the BBC. The official story of what happened on that day was released within 24-48 hours. We "knew" the identity of the hijackers and the criminal mastermind behind them. We heard how they had learnt to fly at a small flight school in the US which used tiny training aircraft about the size of a Fiat 500 with wings. We heard that the hijackers had gone out boozing the night before 9/11 and that they had left a Boeing Flight Manual (in Arabic) in their car in the airport car park. The hijackers used "box cutters" to threaten passengers and crew and take over 4 planes. (In England we call "box cutters" Stanley knives. A "box cutter" has a small triangular blade with a 2cm cutting edge; it is great for opening cardboard boxes, but rubbish for stabbing people. Anyway, the long and the short of it is that the 9/11 story is fabricated rubbish as I expect this Paris story will be.

Direct consequence of flawed Western foreign policy of supporting Islamist movements for geo-political interests. Bosnia, Kosovo-Metohija, Libya, Syria... you empower Islamists and this is what happens. It isn't the first time. The organizers of 9/11 spent time in Bosnia in the 90s, Fort Dix was attacked by Albanian Islamists, the American military base in Germany was attacked by those upstanding secular kosovar boy scouts and now this.

Yes Islamism is something that needs to be confronted, but first Westerners must ask their own politicians why have they been empowering terrorists since 1990s.

Yesterday, Bosnia and Kosovo came to Paris.

".Finally if Muslims agree not to insult other religions then I therefore feel that non-Muslims shouldn't insult Islam."

what the hell is this rubbish? insult Islam? how is a cartoon insulting to a supposedly divine and total truth? i am told very often by muslims that i am going to burn in hell for being an atheist. it is not nice to hear that, but i tolerate it. so, why should they have the right to say that to me? as far as i can tell, muslims, those who take offence at having their faith questioned are yet to be mentally emancipated. the first act of emancipation is laughing and mocking and questioning authority; the very fact that they say we can't question Mohammed, make fun of him, satire him means they are mental slaves to an ideology. i'm sorry but, i don't have to be a slave to that and i don't have to have my right to free enquiry put at risk by that. I can make fun of any belief system, just like anyone can make fun of mine.

@ Leonidas

The whole Muslim population of Europe in 2010, was around 6%, so this narrative that Muslims will soon dominate the continent is grossly exaggerated and quite frankly irrational. but do you know what? to me its totally immaterial. Europe has gone through many changes before because human beings ultimately change. if Europe at some point in time (never in my lifetime or in yours) becomes a Muslim majority continent, I really don't care. as long as European people have good lives, it doesn't make a single difference to me whether they all be Jews, Atheists, Christians, Satanists. what is going on right now in the Islamic faith is that there is a civil war within it, between hardline traditionalists and those who accept the modern world and want to reform their faith with it.

Peggy

How can you judge the Muslims looking at the bastards who know nothing about Islam translated as Obedience ? They shout Allah Akbar and kill each other while the white skins provoke all those wars. Don't be a victim of the black or white propaganda ! Jesus ( Isa ) is mentioned in Quran 27 times while Mohammad only 4 ! If you remember Jesus the night before crucifix prayed to his father “Illi Illi will you leave me alone ?” In Russian ПАЛЕЯ written long before the Bible you will find Ala Ala instead of Ili Ili … So even Allah is not Arabian ! Besides before 15-th century Islam existed as part of Christianity. So things are not so evident. To tell the truth I am very disappointed about the discussion’s course and I gave poor comments to almost all whom I usually give "likes".

Europe is harvesting it’s own idiotism starting since the Algerian war and we all know that most powerful terroristic organizations like Al Qaeda , Taliban and IS were built by the USA. All Syrian “opposition” gangs trained by the US instructors in Jordan are part of the IS now. Here’s the problem while the discussed massacre of the provokers is only one of the sequences. Who allowed them spit at the things millions are praying at ? Why nobody is discussing here the total degradation of the continent - the LGBT , family terrorism in Norway , fascism in Lithuania , Nazism in Ukraine ect. Below there is a film about how common Muslims live.

http://snob.ru/selected/entry/65698

Starting with you Peggy what the heck are you talking about?! I ain't a killer and as for you Nikolle what part of the last paragraph of my comments you didn't understand??

Islams only "contribution" to humanity: terrorism!
(MikeC, 8 January 2015 14:29)


I'm no muslim but your view is kind of narrow. The Christian crusades were more worse than todays islamic terrorist attacks.

Your views are unhealthy!

They were sentenced to 3 years for sponsoring terrorism?
That's your first mistake.
Second mistake is you didn't keep a close enough eye on convicted terrorists.

Hopefully, you will learn and not make a third mistake.
Maybe more Western countries need to open their own GITMO or change your sentencing laws when it comes to terrorism.

(Nikolle,

Your modesty and truthfulness is really breathtaking. You're a true pacifist who's been shouting from the top of the roof all these years against the crimes your US protectors have been committing in Iraq,Syria,Libya and Afganistan(conveniently converted into Christian crimes to fit your narrative).I've never hidden my views on mass Islamic immigration in Europe and the main reason behind those views is the Muslims unwillingness to integrate within European societies.When you go to Rome you do as the Romans do and don't try to import Islam and embed it into European culture.Slowly and stealthily Muslims are invading Europe, legally or otherwise.Their first demand is the building of Mosques..When they reach a certain percentage, Muslims will demand shariah law (it's already a practice). Initially it will be for Muslims. Soon the non Muslims will also be forced to abide by sharia.Recently, Shaheb Hassan, the official speaker for the Islamic Council of Britain, called on the British to exchange their political institutions for an Islamic regime! He said: "Simply apply the Shariah, and this country would become a peace garden: amputate a thief's hand, and no one would steal; stone the adulterer and no one would commit adultery. British society would benefit greatly by adopting the Islamic Shariah."The simplest thing to do would be to deport Shaheb Hassan back to a country that fits with his needs but the politically correct and cowards would not want to do that.

Proof? Go and enter an Islamic chat room and see how they view those wars. They view them how you view the Ottomans, religiously inspired. You take the same line that they take when it comes to excusing the Ottomans, it wasn't Muslims doing those things it was Turks. You both have a procecuted mentality, which when mixed with paranoia is truly lethal, as we've just seen. What you both need is to stop belieing in rubbish. As for Europe, I stand by what I said, what is important to me is that people have good lives. What seems important to you is that people are a certain way

You seem to confuse Bush's actions in those countries with the feelings of Christians around the world.
(Leonidas, 9 January 2015 20:14)

And you seem to confuse the actions or some individuals with the feelings of Muslims around the world. So, again, you go back to proving Nikolle's point that either both Muslims and Christians are lying, or they're both killing each other, in which case there is no really is no difference between them.

"Wars,however,will take place in the future and they will be fought along cultural but mainly religious lines."

ironic isn't it? god's people fighting over who has the best means of transmitting his message. you can't separate religion from its eschatological element and this why you people are dangerous

@Nikolle:

You're probably going to label me a hypocrite or regard this as double standard but judging by your name I assume you're a non-Muslim so therefore I don't feel it's your place nor the place of other non-Muslims to use the term 'Muslim idiots' however if a Muslim uses that term it's less offensive in my opinion.The way I see it Muslims & non-Muslims alike don't have to be fond of all Muslims and if a non-Muslim justifiably calls a Muslim an 'idiot' I'm basically fine with it however as I stated or indicated that in my opinion that if someone has to use the term 'Muslim idiot(s) it should be Muslims who can say it not non-Muslims.Finally if Muslims agree not to insult other religions then I therefore feel that non-Muslims shouldn't insult Islam.

@rot: Seriously you are trying to "sell us" ottoman empire as..contribution to civilisation? Do yourself a favor and go back to school, and think twice before you humiliate yourself in public forums

@nicole or whatever: you havent realised yet what comes ahead. People in Europe are openly now against muslims, these killings marked the end of our tolerance. Feel free of course to say your opinion, without the fear of some muslim coming to kill you because they dont like what you say. But this is a privilege that your people tried to kill. We will protect our society, by keeping you out.

" No base in Germany was attacked. Spend a minute on Google and find out why your statements are incorrect."
(Air is Wrong, 8 January 2015 11:52)

Yes. Incorrect information! Correct would have been: A bus carrying US army personal was attacked by a Kosovo Albanian muslim in Germany near the Frakfurt airbase. He executed two persons and severely injured two other ones.
(This is correct, 8 January 2015 12:57)

I agree. If this is the "real" Ari Gold he needs to get sobered-up or get his head examined ASAP. If not, who ever wrote that provocative comment is evil.

Also, whoever approved that provocative comment is misinformed or just as evil.

" No base in Germany was attacked. Spend a minute on Google and find out why your statements are incorrect."
(Air is Wrong, 8 January 2015 11:52)

Yes. Incorrect information! Correct would have been: A bus carrying US army personal was attacked by a Kosovo Albanian muslim in Germany near the Frakfurt airbase. He executed two persons and severely injured two other ones.

Islams only "contribution" to humanity: terrorism!

I'm no muslim but your view is kind of narrow. The Christian crusades were more worse than todays islamic terrorist attacks.

Your views are unhealthy!
(Demi, 8 January 2015 15:30
----------------------------------
This is your argument? How long ago was that? Haven't we moved on from that?
Well, it seems the whole world has but not Muslims. They are still behaving like they live in the 7th century. When are Muslims going to move into 21st century like all other humans?

if Europe at some point in time (never in my lifetime or in yours) becomes a Muslim majority continent, I really don't care.
(Nikolle, 9 January 2015 00:06)

This would be the appropriate response by someone like yourself who lives in a predominantly Islamic society.I wouldn't and I am certain the overwhelming majority of Christians and other faiths in Europe wouldn't entertain the thought of living in a theocratic society ruled by the barbarism of Koran.When you have a religion, in which the holy book commands:
"And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush"Surah 9 Verse 5 it does sow the seeds for a religious war.Wars,however,will take place in the future and they will be fought along cultural but mainly religious lines.

"
Yes. Incorrect information! Correct would have been: A bus carrying US army personal was attacked by a Kosovo Albanian muslim in Germany near the Frakfurt airbase. He executed two persons and severely injured two other ones.
(This is correct, 8 January 2015 12:57)"

Again incorrect. There were no Army personnel injured or killed in the attack. They were members of the United States Air Force. They were attacked at the Frankfurt Airport.

I hope the press in the West does the same because this is a direct assault, not only on freedom of expression, but on free thought and if yesterdays events don't embolden them, then nothing will.
(Nikolle,

Has is just occurred to you that the West should be aware of Muslim "idiots"? You probably ignore that Islam has been attacking and slaughtering the Christian world openly for the last 150 years: millions of orthodox Christians were systematically slaughtered in Ottoman Empire during WW1 - that made Hitler's pogrom against the Jews rather amateurish. Currently ,murderous Islam is reappearing via its slaughter of Christians in Nigeria,Central African Republic, Russia, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Pakistan, Indonesia and Hindus in India.

Has is also occurred to you Clerics of Islam issued a death sentence for the staff of Charlie Hebdo. "Soldiers of Islam" from a major Islamic organization that "promotes" Islam around the world, and has millions of dollars and thousands of foot soldiers, carried out the sentence according to the "law" of their Islamic religion. This was not a minor splinter group -- or cult of crazies. This was orthodox Islam.
It's only Western moronic leaders like Hollande , Merkel and Cameron who refuse to see where Europe is heading. It is high time that the man on the street stops these moronic leaders from destroying Europe, which took our ancestors hundreds of years to build.

Finally if Muslims agree not to insult other religions then I therefore feel that non-Muslims shouldn't insult Islam.
(The Confesser, 8 January 2015 19:10)
==============================
That's not enough. Muslims have to agree not to kill innocent Christians any more. Did you hear what Boko Haram just did? Muslims are terrorizing Christians all over the world now, especially in their own countries and you want us to stop insulting you? You are KILLING US and you worry about us insulting you???

Whether certain people like it or not, the killings turned the European society against muslims. Changes will be visible soon, and will be driven by simple people as well as governments.

To those trying to justify the killings using the crusades as an excuse, they should be ashamed of themselves. They can express their opinion in islamist turkey or syria or wherever they wish - as long as they are not in Europe.

They claim that Christians are slaughtering them in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Chechnya, in Palestine and before that in Algeria, in Egypt, in Mali... so either you're both lying, or you're both killing each other. in which case there is no really is no difference between you.
Nikolle

No they don't.You haven't got any evidence of this,have you?
You seem to confuse Bush's actions in those countries with the feelings of Christians around the world.Millions of Christians demonstrated on the Streets of Paris,London and other European countries against the wars.Iraq was invaded and occupied primarily to help U.S. and UK companies gain control of Iraq’s oil industry and reserves and much of its economy ,and to steal trillions of dollars of oil profits,it wasn't a war against Muslims.On the other hand ,the motive behind the extermination of Christians by the Ottomans was religion alone.The Ottomans were pursuing the Islamic purity in Turkey.

So, again, you go back to proving Nikolle's point that either both Muslims and Christians are lying, or they're both killing each other, in which case there is no really is no difference between them.
(icj1, 10 January 2015 16:18)

On the contrary it's you and your double Nicolle who are lying by trying to morph Bush's criminal wars in Middle East into Christian crusades and their perception by Muslims as such.You must be a frequent visitor of "muslim Chat rooms" to concur with your double's "evidence".

""Again incorrect. There were no Army personnel injured or killed in the attack. They were members of the United States Air Force. "
(Sorry ...but getting closer., 8 January 2015 15:22)

Don't members of the US Air Force belong to the US army?
(Questioner, 8 January 2015 17)

No. They became separate devices in 1947.

I find your arguments really amusing: 'the muslim chatrooms” are your evidence that US’s wars in Iraq ,Afganistan, Libya and Syria are perceived by Muslims as Christian crusades.How many Muslims did you chat to? 10,20,50?Are they a representative sample of muslims around the world? Do you compare the views of the “muslims in the chatrooms” with the millions of Christians and other faiths who have taken to the streets of major cities in Europe voicing their opposition against the war in Iraq? Have you seen pictures of these demonstrators carrying banners reading“not in my name” ?Of course you haven’t. No Albanian has. Instead you’re repeating cold war-era school myths and lies about the causes of the US invasions in the Middle East masquerading them as “human rights” and “democracy”. You only have to visit the archives of this site and read the Albanian’s postings on articles related to the above.I've got to admit though that Albanians excel in showing their clan loyalty to their Western masters.As Mark Twain said “If you pick up a starving dog and give him food he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man.”

BTW Turkey didn't commit a genocide against citizens of another country but against its own Christian citizens.

, or they're both killing each other, in which case there is no really is no difference between them.
(icj1, 10 January 2015 16:18)
================================
Seems to be that it's only the Islamic extreemists who are terrorizing the whole world not Christians.
I keep hearing how it's only the minority of Muslims who are terrorists and the whole religion should not be judged by them. Well, if it's only the minority who hold these views then how come the majority cannot weed them out and take care of horror? What's holding them back?

EIGHTEEN years old?!! OMG!

"Again incorrect. There were no Army personnel injured or killed in the attack. They were members of the United States Air Force. "
(Sorry ...but getting closer., 8 January 2015 15:22)

Don't members of the US Air Force belong to the US army?

Starting with you Peggy what the heck are you talking about?! I ain't a killer
================================
Obviously I didn't mean you personally.

"...with the millions of Christians and other faiths who have taken to the streets of major cities in Europe voicing their opposition against the war in Iraq?" I have read this before. thing is though, I remember those marches, but then again, 1 million people, to now take your figure, is not the whole population is it? I am told that in London alone 1 million went to protest against the war, but London is a city of approximately 13 million, that means 12 million didn't march against the war. its easy to play around with statistics. "BTW Turkey didn't commit a genocide against citizens of another country but against its own Christian citizens." your point though was that those were religiously inspired crimes, my point was that your perception of them is the same as those of Islamists who view what you term Western crimes as religious. it is not my problem if you're both wrong