Guarantees offered for release of seriously ill Šešelj

May the evil kangaroo court rott in he'll for keeping a innocent man behind bars

Nationalists are fond of lobbing all sorts of accusations against the ICTY -- they claim it killed Milosevic, that it has unjustly held Seselj for 11 years
(Nenad, 5 November 2014 16:40)

Yes because a trial shouldn't last for 11 years. Maybe get past your foaming-at-the-mouth hatred and racism and think objectively. If there was enough evidence to convict Seselj of any thing, he'd be convicted by now.

Seselj was a mouth-piece. He made inflammatory remarks during the 90s just as all political leaders did, including his errand boy Vucic who is the great modernizer today. But that's all Seselj ever did was talk. He was not involved in the actual fighting. And if the Hague had proof otherwise, they'd already convict him by now.

They are waiting for him to die so they can convict him posthumously, just like with Milosevic. Kangaroo court.

(Nenad, 5 November 2014 16:40)I'd be curious to see what evidence can be produced to demonstrate that Seselj received inadequate treatment for his medical condition

----

I read an article where Dr. Milovan Bojic, who headed the team that examined Seslej indicated that one of the procedures the Dutch continually proposed to Seselj was euthanasia, which is permitted in Dutch prisons.

If true, then it is does provide for quite convincing evidence that recommended treatment was `inadequate`.

What terrible PR for the ICTY and the West. Another Serb dying in their prison, held for years and years with nebulous 'evidence' to allow the prosecution to come up with something more concrete that could reach a minimal level of legal credibility.

The ICTY is now desperate to get rid of him at all costs.

I'd be curious to see what evidence can be produced to demonstrate that Seselj received inadequate treatment for his medical condition. Of course that is what any nationalist Serb (or someone posing as a nationalist for political gain) would claim, but we still need evidence. Anyone can say anything. Nationalists are fond of lobbing all sorts of accusations against the ICTY -- they claim it killed Milosevic, that it has unjustly held Seselj for 11 years -- but they conveniently fail to mention that Milosevic was under heavy stress, smoked, possibly drank too much...they never mention the fact that Seselj was convicted three times for contempt over fairly straightforward violations, or that he spent long periods of time stalling proceedings while haggling over his right to reimbursement of legal costs and so forth...

Actually........Seselj was seen on many front lines or at least close to it in Chetnik uniform ( Vukovar & BiH )encouraging his bearded followers to kill, maim, rape and destroy. Hitler like Seselj was never involved in the actual fighting but held the strings to control his puppets. If Seselj is innocent as you say then Hitler / Stalin were angels...
(Bam Bam, 6 November 2014 00:44)

Show me just one Video where Seselj encourages his people to murder and rape, you can´t because there are NONE. As for your comparison of Seselj to Hitler and Stalin he can in no way be compared to those who murdered millions of innocent people and he is not even accused for murder. If you want to compare some people with Stalin and Hitler then i suggest you look up Hitlers servants Ante Pavelic, Maks Luburic and numerous of other ustasa nazis.

Disgusting satanic court!!! holding an innocent man for 13 YEARS!!!!!!!!!! because he is a serb and nobody likes serbs because they speak the TRUTH!! JUSTICE FOR SESELJ LONG LIVE THE KING!!!!

(Nenad, 6 November 2014 03:51) Not sure where people get the notion that trials are normally quick. They are notoriously slow, tedious processes that, even when events are unfolding per usual, can take years.
-----

What about pre-trial and post trial duration?
Seselj voluntary surrendered Feb 2003. Why did the ICTY delay the start of his trial for so many years? why did the ICTY obstruct and delay self representation? Why did the ICTY change the indictment 4 times in that span? The ICTY prosecutors were clearly ill-prepared as confirmed by the ensuing presentation of "evidence" during the laughable trial process. The trial ended with closing arguments (and NO Defense presentation, ie without defense delay) in March 2012. How can ICTY apologists blame the defence for delays in the post trial deliberation process? All this is clearly a reflection of a laughable and totally inept ICTY.

Not sure where people get the notion that trials are normally quick. They are notoriously slow, tedious processes that, even when events are unfolding per usual, can take years. This is one reason why so many claimants opt to settle in lieu of going to trial.
(Nenad, 6 November 2014 03:51)
--
LOL! Really? Years passed before they even started this trial. Years passed after the end of the trial and no verdict delivered. He didn't even put up a defence.

Amazing how quickly Albanian terrorists finished their trials through lack of evidence (i.e. witness initimidation and murder). However, lack of evidence in Seselj's case meant never ending delays.

No point explaining that to Serb haters and racists though.

(Bob, 5 November 2014 21:56)The trial should have been done with years ago. Why it takes so long for lawyers to decide these things is a mystery to me.

---

No mystery at all. The farcical ICTY has been plainly perverted legal norms.

By the way there is nothing wrong with wearing a Chetnik uniform. Chetniks were soldiers that stayed loyal to the Serbian king.

(justice served, 6 November 2014 14:23) But in the end it seems TRUE justice is going to be served

----

No verdict, as I predicted in past comment streams, will be presented before the defendant expires. Nonetheless, one aspect of TRUE justice to have emerged is the recognition by reputable jurists of the gross incompetency and perversion of legal norms by the ICTY.

@Ari Gold: Seselj was a mouth-piece. the . "He was not involved in the actual fighting". And if the Hague had proof otherwise, they'd already convict him by now.

Actually........Seselj was seen on many front lines or at least close to it in Chetnik uniform ( Vukovar & BiH )encouraging his bearded followers to kill, maim, rape and destroy. Hitler like Seselj was never involved in the actual fighting but held the strings to control his puppets. If Seselj is innocent as you say then Hitler / Stalin were angels...

Not sure where people get the notion that trials are normally quick. They are notoriously slow, tedious processes that, even when events are unfolding per usual, can take years. This is one reason why so many claimants opt to settle in lieu of going to trial.

Seselj has done much to slow down and interrupt proceedings. We can debate his culpability but the fact remains that he was indicted on numerous counts and turned himself over to the court to stand trial. Was he treated unfairly by the judges? Maybe, but show me a concrete example. I've watched several ICTY trials and they all move at an excruciatingly slow place. Witnesses can be on the stand for days on end, it takes forever to explain exhibits (for example, maps showing population distribution of pre-war Krajina in 1991), there are all kinds of technical matters to cover when witnesses aren't even present...they are a MAJOR grind. Take all that and throw Seselj's famous antics on top and you've got yourself a courtroom eternity.

Finally, what makes Seselj innocent for not having engaged in the fighting himself (assuming that were true)? I'm sure lots of people who come to this site would have liked to have seen Franjo Tudjman tried, but he surely never fired a gun during the wars. Seselj ran a paramilitary formation accused of grave crimes - why should he be automatically exempt from charges on the basis of command responsibility?

(justice served, 6 November 2014 14:23) No defense delays, it was Seselj that petitioned the court to have one judge removed from the case of course thinking that it would end in mistrial then.

-----

The defence petition was a perfectly legitimate legal action and not any sort of delay or obstruction. Any competent attorney would have done the same. The action of the removed judge and his allegations of high level corruption at the ICTY are no fault of the defense. In any reputable judiciary, this is a text book example for a mistrial; the failure of the ICTY to conform to basic legal norms, and recognize text book mistrials, has grown into a farcical comedy of proportions entirely unprecedented in international criminal law. Are you saying that a sane attorney should have ignored the obvious case for a mistrial? It is difficult to comprehend the logic of ICTY apologists, so please explain what any other competent attorney would have done differently when the bias of a judge is exposed?

The pursuit of justice by the ICTY has been perverted and the maniacal obsession for a conviction is plainly evident.

This offer of the Hague only means that Seselj is truly very ill. Now if he accepts this offer it means he will die in Serbia and the Hague will be able to wash its hands of compensation for wrongful imprisonment. However, if he declines this offer and dies in the Hague then it’s a totally different ball game and compensation will run into the millions for detaining him without cause.

According to an AFP wire-service report and quoting spokeswoman Magdalena Spalinska on Nov 6th, The ICTY approved the release had "not found it necessary to consult the accused". No conditions or obligations have been placed upon the defendant. From Seselj's perspective he has been granted an unconditional release.

What an embarrassment even by farcical ICTY standards and what a monumental vindication for the defence.

The trial should have been done with years ago. Why it takes so long for lawyers to decide these things is a mystery to me.

The lack of immediacy is unhealthy.

Some say he's innocent, but my guess is that he is probably not.

It will be a pity if the cancer gets him before there's a verdict.

Waterboard him till he spills the beans, then euthanize him. This would probably would have taken three weeks tops, simple, quick and cheap. He was guilty of a lot more than what they had on him. Good riddance.

(icj1, 7 November 2014 03:28). So, ICTY was farcical when did not release him and ICTY is still farcical when did release him lol
----------

The ocean of inconsistencies and contradictions from the ICTY are indeed farcical.
One decision rejects his release and another decision from the same trial chamber approves his release. Laughably schizophrenic. You should thank the ICTY for the entertainment.


Indeed... Just a small definition needs to be added that "reputable jurists" means a certain "Amnesty Yugoslavia".
----------
Thank you for considering me a reputable jurist.

---

Maniacal obsession to complete the trial is in the interest of the accused and the victims.

A 4 year pre-trial duration, 5 years to hear less then 200 days of prosecution`s evidence and more than 1.5 (and counting) years of post-trial deliberation is NOT an obsession for completion and, at a minimum, a shows absolute incompetency. The failure to recognize a textbook mistrial does indeed represent a bias for conviction and certainly is not in the interest of justice.

(and NO Defense presentation, ie without defense delay) in March 2012. How can ICTY apologists blame the defence for delays in the post trial deliberation process? All this is clearly a reflection of a laughable and totally inept ICTY.
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 6 November 2014 13:03)

No defense delays, it was Seselj that petitioned the court to have one judge removed from the case of course thinking that it would end in mistrial then. But instead another judge had to be named and he in turn has to review 8 years of testimony and evidence.
But in the end it seems TRUE justice is going to be served, whether he dies in prison or outside, he will never hurt another human being. At this point it seems that it now up to God to determine where he will spend eternity.

What an embarrassment even by farcical ICTY standards and what a monumental vindication for the defence.
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 6 November 2014 19:33)

The nonsense that you write is really entertaining. So, ICTY was farcical when did not release him and ICTY is still farcical when did release him lol
----------

Nonetheless, one aspect of TRUE justice to have emerged is the recognition by reputable jurists of the gross incompetency and perversion of legal norms by the ICTY.
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 6 November 2014 17:23)

Indeed... Just a small definition needs to be added that "reputable jurists" means a certain "Amnesty Yugoslavia".
----------

The pursuit of justice by the ICTY has been perverted and the maniacal obsession for a conviction is plainly evident.
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 6 November 2014 16:48)

Maniacal obsession to complete the trial is in the interest of the accused and the victims. I'm sure that you, being a "reputable jurist", understand the difference between "obsession for a conviction" and "obsession to complete the trial".

I'd be curious to see what evidence can be produced to demonstrate that Seselj received inadequate treatment for his medical condition. Of course that is what any nationalist Serb (or someone posing as a nationalist for political gain) would claim, but we still need evidence. Anyone can say anything. Nationalists are fond of lobbing all sorts of accusations against the ICTY -- they claim it killed Milosevic, that it has unjustly held Seselj for 11 years -- but they conveniently fail to mention that Milosevic was under heavy stress, smoked, possibly drank too much...they never mention the fact that Seselj was convicted three times for contempt over fairly straightforward violations, or that he spent long periods of time stalling proceedings while haggling over his right to reimbursement of legal costs and so forth...

Waterboard him till he spills the beans, then euthanize him. This would probably would have taken three weeks tops, simple, quick and cheap. He was guilty of a lot more than what they had on him. Good riddance.

May the evil kangaroo court rott in he'll for keeping a innocent man behind bars

The trial should have been done with years ago. Why it takes so long for lawyers to decide these things is a mystery to me.

The lack of immediacy is unhealthy.

Some say he's innocent, but my guess is that he is probably not.

It will be a pity if the cancer gets him before there's a verdict.

@Ari Gold: Seselj was a mouth-piece. the . "He was not involved in the actual fighting". And if the Hague had proof otherwise, they'd already convict him by now.

Actually........Seselj was seen on many front lines or at least close to it in Chetnik uniform ( Vukovar & BiH )encouraging his bearded followers to kill, maim, rape and destroy. Hitler like Seselj was never involved in the actual fighting but held the strings to control his puppets. If Seselj is innocent as you say then Hitler / Stalin were angels...

Not sure where people get the notion that trials are normally quick. They are notoriously slow, tedious processes that, even when events are unfolding per usual, can take years. This is one reason why so many claimants opt to settle in lieu of going to trial.

Seselj has done much to slow down and interrupt proceedings. We can debate his culpability but the fact remains that he was indicted on numerous counts and turned himself over to the court to stand trial. Was he treated unfairly by the judges? Maybe, but show me a concrete example. I've watched several ICTY trials and they all move at an excruciatingly slow place. Witnesses can be on the stand for days on end, it takes forever to explain exhibits (for example, maps showing population distribution of pre-war Krajina in 1991), there are all kinds of technical matters to cover when witnesses aren't even present...they are a MAJOR grind. Take all that and throw Seselj's famous antics on top and you've got yourself a courtroom eternity.

Finally, what makes Seselj innocent for not having engaged in the fighting himself (assuming that were true)? I'm sure lots of people who come to this site would have liked to have seen Franjo Tudjman tried, but he surely never fired a gun during the wars. Seselj ran a paramilitary formation accused of grave crimes - why should he be automatically exempt from charges on the basis of command responsibility?

Disgusting satanic court!!! holding an innocent man for 13 YEARS!!!!!!!!!! because he is a serb and nobody likes serbs because they speak the TRUTH!! JUSTICE FOR SESELJ LONG LIVE THE KING!!!!

Nationalists are fond of lobbing all sorts of accusations against the ICTY -- they claim it killed Milosevic, that it has unjustly held Seselj for 11 years
(Nenad, 5 November 2014 16:40)

Yes because a trial shouldn't last for 11 years. Maybe get past your foaming-at-the-mouth hatred and racism and think objectively. If there was enough evidence to convict Seselj of any thing, he'd be convicted by now.

Seselj was a mouth-piece. He made inflammatory remarks during the 90s just as all political leaders did, including his errand boy Vucic who is the great modernizer today. But that's all Seselj ever did was talk. He was not involved in the actual fighting. And if the Hague had proof otherwise, they'd already convict him by now.

They are waiting for him to die so they can convict him posthumously, just like with Milosevic. Kangaroo court.

(and NO Defense presentation, ie without defense delay) in March 2012. How can ICTY apologists blame the defence for delays in the post trial deliberation process? All this is clearly a reflection of a laughable and totally inept ICTY.
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 6 November 2014 13:03)

No defense delays, it was Seselj that petitioned the court to have one judge removed from the case of course thinking that it would end in mistrial then. But instead another judge had to be named and he in turn has to review 8 years of testimony and evidence.
But in the end it seems TRUE justice is going to be served, whether he dies in prison or outside, he will never hurt another human being. At this point it seems that it now up to God to determine where he will spend eternity.

What an embarrassment even by farcical ICTY standards and what a monumental vindication for the defence.
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 6 November 2014 19:33)

The nonsense that you write is really entertaining. So, ICTY was farcical when did not release him and ICTY is still farcical when did release him lol
----------

Nonetheless, one aspect of TRUE justice to have emerged is the recognition by reputable jurists of the gross incompetency and perversion of legal norms by the ICTY.
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 6 November 2014 17:23)

Indeed... Just a small definition needs to be added that "reputable jurists" means a certain "Amnesty Yugoslavia".
----------

The pursuit of justice by the ICTY has been perverted and the maniacal obsession for a conviction is plainly evident.
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 6 November 2014 16:48)

Maniacal obsession to complete the trial is in the interest of the accused and the victims. I'm sure that you, being a "reputable jurist", understand the difference between "obsession for a conviction" and "obsession to complete the trial".

What terrible PR for the ICTY and the West. Another Serb dying in their prison, held for years and years with nebulous 'evidence' to allow the prosecution to come up with something more concrete that could reach a minimal level of legal credibility.

The ICTY is now desperate to get rid of him at all costs.

(Nenad, 5 November 2014 16:40)I'd be curious to see what evidence can be produced to demonstrate that Seselj received inadequate treatment for his medical condition

----

I read an article where Dr. Milovan Bojic, who headed the team that examined Seslej indicated that one of the procedures the Dutch continually proposed to Seselj was euthanasia, which is permitted in Dutch prisons.

If true, then it is does provide for quite convincing evidence that recommended treatment was `inadequate`.

Actually........Seselj was seen on many front lines or at least close to it in Chetnik uniform ( Vukovar & BiH )encouraging his bearded followers to kill, maim, rape and destroy. Hitler like Seselj was never involved in the actual fighting but held the strings to control his puppets. If Seselj is innocent as you say then Hitler / Stalin were angels...
(Bam Bam, 6 November 2014 00:44)

Show me just one Video where Seselj encourages his people to murder and rape, you can´t because there are NONE. As for your comparison of Seselj to Hitler and Stalin he can in no way be compared to those who murdered millions of innocent people and he is not even accused for murder. If you want to compare some people with Stalin and Hitler then i suggest you look up Hitlers servants Ante Pavelic, Maks Luburic and numerous of other ustasa nazis.

By the way there is nothing wrong with wearing a Chetnik uniform. Chetniks were soldiers that stayed loyal to the Serbian king.

(Nenad, 6 November 2014 03:51) Not sure where people get the notion that trials are normally quick. They are notoriously slow, tedious processes that, even when events are unfolding per usual, can take years.
-----

What about pre-trial and post trial duration?
Seselj voluntary surrendered Feb 2003. Why did the ICTY delay the start of his trial for so many years? why did the ICTY obstruct and delay self representation? Why did the ICTY change the indictment 4 times in that span? The ICTY prosecutors were clearly ill-prepared as confirmed by the ensuing presentation of "evidence" during the laughable trial process. The trial ended with closing arguments (and NO Defense presentation, ie without defense delay) in March 2012. How can ICTY apologists blame the defence for delays in the post trial deliberation process? All this is clearly a reflection of a laughable and totally inept ICTY.

Not sure where people get the notion that trials are normally quick. They are notoriously slow, tedious processes that, even when events are unfolding per usual, can take years. This is one reason why so many claimants opt to settle in lieu of going to trial.
(Nenad, 6 November 2014 03:51)
--
LOL! Really? Years passed before they even started this trial. Years passed after the end of the trial and no verdict delivered. He didn't even put up a defence.

Amazing how quickly Albanian terrorists finished their trials through lack of evidence (i.e. witness initimidation and murder). However, lack of evidence in Seselj's case meant never ending delays.

No point explaining that to Serb haters and racists though.

(justice served, 6 November 2014 14:23) No defense delays, it was Seselj that petitioned the court to have one judge removed from the case of course thinking that it would end in mistrial then.

-----

The defence petition was a perfectly legitimate legal action and not any sort of delay or obstruction. Any competent attorney would have done the same. The action of the removed judge and his allegations of high level corruption at the ICTY are no fault of the defense. In any reputable judiciary, this is a text book example for a mistrial; the failure of the ICTY to conform to basic legal norms, and recognize text book mistrials, has grown into a farcical comedy of proportions entirely unprecedented in international criminal law. Are you saying that a sane attorney should have ignored the obvious case for a mistrial? It is difficult to comprehend the logic of ICTY apologists, so please explain what any other competent attorney would have done differently when the bias of a judge is exposed?

The pursuit of justice by the ICTY has been perverted and the maniacal obsession for a conviction is plainly evident.

(justice served, 6 November 2014 14:23) But in the end it seems TRUE justice is going to be served

----

No verdict, as I predicted in past comment streams, will be presented before the defendant expires. Nonetheless, one aspect of TRUE justice to have emerged is the recognition by reputable jurists of the gross incompetency and perversion of legal norms by the ICTY.

(Bob, 5 November 2014 21:56)The trial should have been done with years ago. Why it takes so long for lawyers to decide these things is a mystery to me.

---

No mystery at all. The farcical ICTY has been plainly perverted legal norms.

This offer of the Hague only means that Seselj is truly very ill. Now if he accepts this offer it means he will die in Serbia and the Hague will be able to wash its hands of compensation for wrongful imprisonment. However, if he declines this offer and dies in the Hague then it’s a totally different ball game and compensation will run into the millions for detaining him without cause.

According to an AFP wire-service report and quoting spokeswoman Magdalena Spalinska on Nov 6th, The ICTY approved the release had "not found it necessary to consult the accused". No conditions or obligations have been placed upon the defendant. From Seselj's perspective he has been granted an unconditional release.

What an embarrassment even by farcical ICTY standards and what a monumental vindication for the defence.

(icj1, 7 November 2014 03:28). So, ICTY was farcical when did not release him and ICTY is still farcical when did release him lol
----------

The ocean of inconsistencies and contradictions from the ICTY are indeed farcical.
One decision rejects his release and another decision from the same trial chamber approves his release. Laughably schizophrenic. You should thank the ICTY for the entertainment.


Indeed... Just a small definition needs to be added that "reputable jurists" means a certain "Amnesty Yugoslavia".
----------
Thank you for considering me a reputable jurist.

---

Maniacal obsession to complete the trial is in the interest of the accused and the victims.

A 4 year pre-trial duration, 5 years to hear less then 200 days of prosecution`s evidence and more than 1.5 (and counting) years of post-trial deliberation is NOT an obsession for completion and, at a minimum, a shows absolute incompetency. The failure to recognize a textbook mistrial does indeed represent a bias for conviction and certainly is not in the interest of justice.