British EU referendum bill collapses

That's why we'll be voting for UKIP come the next election and an end to the farce of EU corruption and austerity. We've had enough of the three stooges, IE Cameron Clegg and that twerp Ed the red Miliband. UKIP is the only answer for Britain.

I wonder why Serbia is so keep to join the EU knowing what will happen once they do get in?? I hope you guys know what you doing.

UKIP leader Nigel Farage is the most significant political actor in the entire continent of Europe right now. Because of his presence and the surge in support for UKIP in Britain, pressure is rising for the domestic EUrophile political elite to start taking their demands seriously.

The UK will undoubtedly vote to leave the EU when the referendum comes. The reason why this has ramifications for all of Europe is once the UK leaves, other countries in Northern Europe will want to leave too. Meanwhile the austerity-hit southern European countries will continue to detest the painful policies that were drafted by the unelected central commission in Brussels.

The EU is literally the perfect recipe for European disunity and division. It is creating the kind of resentment that will take decades to repair. Sooner rather than later, the EU will completely crumble and disintegrate and Germany will for the 3rd time in 100 years fail to conquer the continent.

Let's just hope Serbia will be able to get Germany the hell out of its country once this happens.

We'd lose free trade

(Ian, UK,

Trade is all very well, but do you make anything? Britain has been moving from manufacturing to service for decades. How do you trade service? Does it fit into containers?
And on Britain's so-called financial services sector: we saw that eggs-in-one-basket market collapse a few years ago and plunged you into the present debacle. You had no manufacturing to fall back on and sustain you , as did Germany for example.
The craziness goes on and on. You are a major coal resource, and yet you import most of the coal you use. You used to have a vast fishing industry, and yet the EU ordered its destruction, and you obliged.
Your government simply genuflects before the great EU authority. It closes cheap and highly productive coal-fired power stations and erects thousands of ineffective and highly costly windmills.
Britain is clapped out. The youth have not had a decent education for decades. The banksters have turned everyone and every business into a slave to debt repayments for a fiat currency. All your infrastructure is clapped out and NIMBYs block renewal. In many towns, there's a fifth column of islamists grooming & raping children & plotting mass casualty events. Welfare handouts provide an acceptable income for no effort. You are being 'led' by charlatans and criminals. All your institutions are traduced by Common Purpose working to a secretive agenda. Things will get worse before getting much worse in Broken Britain.

(Ian, UK, 29 October 2014 13:29)

Support for the EU in the UK is NOT at an all-time high. Such ridiculous propaganda based on very biased polls that do not reflect the situation on the ground. In fact, your EU federalist anti-sovereign ideology is quickly falling into fringe thought with the rest of the mainstream parties in the UK working over-time to pander to UKIP supporters.

The UK would not lose out on free trade with the EU because the EU sells to the UK far more than the UK does to the EU. The imbalance is not even close and Brussels needs the UK more than vice-versa. You just loathe nation-states and have such little confidence in your own country to think that it can be independent. After all, this is the UK we're talking about. The little island that brutally colonized half the globe and now you're saying you can't even be a self-governing nation?

But I never get tired of your ahead-of-the-curb, smug superiority you seem to think you have. So the problem is that most people are just not educated and smart as you to understand what the EU is really all about. They aren't as advanced and as modern as you are and therefore they cannot see the benefits of handing over billions of pounds every year so some German bureaucrat in Brussels can make 75% of your laws. Thank God we have someone as intelligent as you to educate everyone.

Nation-State Democracy ≠ EU

This is a shame (not). It comes at at a time where public support for the EU is at the highest it has been since 1991. We don't need to leave the EU, we need EU refrom.

All that leaving the EU would do, would be to f*** up our economy. We'd lose free trade & freedom of movement with our main economic parteners which would mean prices would go up; which means foreign investers (not just from the EU) would leave the UK. This means unemployment would rapidly increase & our economy would collapse even further. Not to mention that the NHS wouldn't be sustainable, we'd lose out on tourism, our Univeristies would be short of money & the economic migrants from Eastern Europe which our economy relies on would be gone. Also we'd become an US colony where we have no elected representatives intead of being part of a European family where we have elected representatives.

Many people in the UK are ignorant towards the EU and are only opposed to it due to propaganda from Right-Wing Newspapers such as the Daily Mirror, Daily Express & Rupert Murdoch's papers; they're opposed to the EU because the EU is the only authority able to control these evil corperations. David Cameron wouldn't dare tackle with them becuase these papers put him in power in the first place. And of course the self-serving, lying, racist, sexist, white, middle class UKIP of South-East England wouldn't be affected by the UK leaving the EU because they're super rich unlike the common people.

Reform not Exit.

Sorry Ned

But I don't believe David Cameron's word one bit. Before he came into office he promised a referendum, he did not deliver and he will not deliver if by some miracle he does get into office next election. We've been lied to so too many times to trust either of the so called three main parties. It's time for change and change will come next election. Most of us have had enough of the EU corruption, it's a bloody farce and time for out. We cannot keep letting people into the country when our own youth are finding it hard to get jobs. Time for us to take control of our borders and our own country. I will not be dictated to by those unseen corrupt politicians who call the shots in the EU. The EU is a disaster for Europe and its peoples as we have clearly seen.

@Ari Gold

Nigel Farage is a quick fix politican who offers no real solutions to people beyond scapegoating immigrants and the EU. He is one of those people who believes if there were only fewer foreigners working and EU exit, all the problems of Britain would melt. In short, he is a moron. That he has tapped into a lot of disgruntled white voters is obvious, but a vote for UKIP will be a vote for stupidity. No wonder you have sympathy for him, given your worryingly low level of intelligence.

Let's be clear, there will be a referendum if the Conservatives win the next election outright. This vote was an attempt to enshrine such a referendum into law rather than leave it to the whim of whoever is the next Prime Minister. Ian makes many good points and I would vote to stay in. The latest opinion polls in fact show a lead for those who wish to remain in the EU, despite the rise of UKIP. Let's not forget that you need 50.001% to win a referendum and UKIP is polling 15-18%. The status quo always gains in the last days of a debate, witness Quebec and Scotland so if it is close at the outset of a campaign then staying in is almost certainly the outcome.

The UK would not lose out on free trade with the EU because the EU sells to the UK far more than the UK does to the EU.
(Ari Gold, 29 October 2014 16:31)


Exactly!

We import from the EU tax free and from other countries which the EU has free trade agreements with, we'd lose all that if we left the EU. We import on a huge scale from the EU, imagine how much more we'd have to pay if we lost that free trade? My weekly shop at the supermarket would be almost double, alcohol would double, as would electrical and mechanical goods which are assembled in the EU, the UK would have to pay tax on all of that if we left the EU. Cars, TVs, machinery, mobile phones, food ect would all be a lot more expensive outside the EU. Premier League clubs would suffer when having to pay tax from buy footballers abroad. Many working class people are struggling to get by now, imagine how they'd be struggling if the prices of everything went up if we left the EU? If we left the EU many local and national businesses would struggle to operate due to the British public's disposable income significantly decreasing. It is estimated that each person would be £3,5000 worse off each year if we left the EU. A comfortable middle class family would have a short fall of at least £7,000+ each year to live off if we left the EU.

Anyway Ari, I don't know why I bothered wasting my time on you because you've proven on many occasions how ignorant you are on the EU.

Ian

Anyone who places any faith on government figures on anything-including
immigration,inflation,unemployment etc needs their head examining.The UK is a bubble economy that is propped up on printing money and debt-which still 6 years after the crash -is borrowing between £100-120 billion more each year than it earns and is adding it to the whopping £1.4 trillion of accrued debt on which is paying more than £50 billion a year to service the interest payment on.
The reality of the UKs dire economic position is carefully masked by such feelgood MSM embellished nonsense that is spoon fed to them by government propaganda machine so the sheep don't get frightened and stampede the pen.As George Orwell said 'We are all capable of believing things we know to be untrue, and then, when finally proved wrong by impudently twisting the facts so as to show that we a right, intellectually, it is possible to carry on the process indefinetly: the only check on it is that sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality, usually on a battlefield'.
As to EU it will be taken down by the people it falsely claims to represent.In few years from now Euro-Land will be a far flung memory like that of ancient Rome.

The link you quoted proves nothing to contradict the fact that imported coal is cheaper than the one mined in the UK.

If you compare tone by tone prices,as the tories did, you might have a point.But if you include the overall social cost ie not only the loss of revenue by the exchequer in terms of tax and national insurance contributions but also the financial support given to thousands on unemployed coalminers then the imported coal becomes more expensive and studies have already shown that.The decision to import coal was rather ideological than financial.

There are no unelected EU bureucrats! Or, if you wish, they are as "unelected" as Greece's Minister of Finance.

What a nonsense. The Greek minister of finance has been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people and then is apppointed as a minister by the prime minister. Barosso was never voted into EU parliament by the people of Europe.He only got the job through the various deals stuck in the smocky back rooms.

We've indeed been hearing for years that in few years it will collapse but that "few years" stubbornly refuses to materialize.

The EUSSR, which Juncker now controls, was born in the Nazi Party.
The first EUSSR Commission president was a man named Walter Hallstein, who was a top flight lawyer and recruiter for the Nazi Party.It has been controlled by fascists ever since.The EU is a new Soviet Union (under German control) in the making - and threatens to become the 4th Reich.

"German bureaucrat in Brussels can make 75% of your laws."

You have British bureaucrats in Brussels as well. Plus, you can elect your MEP. Also, never understood why 75% of laws made in Brussels is so bad. If the laws are good and make sense, what's the problem? You need similar to common laws when you engage in trade and various other interactions. Even if Britain exists the EU, their laws will be the same/similar to those of the EU. sort of like Norway. Funny, people who despise the EU cheer a Slavic union, A EURASIAN Union, a Russio-China union etc

The craziness goes on and on. You are a major coal resource, and yet you import most of the coal you use.
(Leonidas, 29 October 2014 20:04)

Because the imported coal is cheaper than the one mined in the UK. Should the UK consumers pay higher prices for energy just to make you happy?!
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You used to have a vast fishing industry, and yet the EU ordered its destruction, and you obliged.
(Leonidas, 29 October 2014 20:04)

Where is the order so that we can see it, dear? The UK still has a fishing industry, so it's not been destroyed. If you mean that under EU regulations there are limits to fishing, I don't see what's the problem with that. I assume you are aware that fishing resources are not unlimited for somebody to fish as much and he wants.
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Your government simply genuflects before the great EU authority.
(Leonidas, 29 October 2014 20:04)

And, what's the problem with that? There are things that makes sense to be regulated at the EU level (like the fishing), others that makes sense to be regulated at the country level, others at the provincial level and yet others at the municipality level. According to your logic, ultimately every authority should be disbanded and every person should rule by him/herself in order to not genuflect before a greater authority, whether municipal, provincial, national or international - so basically you want the chaos; people in the natural state like animals under the law of the jungle :)

It closes cheap and highly productive coal-fired power stations and erects thousands of ineffective and highly costly windmills.
(Leonidas, 29 October 2014 20:04)

And, who told told you that after doing a cost-benefit analysis, including environmental costs, that is not the right course of action? Nobody wants to become like China. People do care about the quality of life in the UK.
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Britain is clapped out. The youth have not had a decent education for decades.
(Leonidas, 29 October 2014 20:04)

That's why people from all over the world want to study in Britain, instead of, say, the Moscow University :)
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The banksters have turned everyone and every business into a slave to debt repayments for a fiat currency.
(Leonidas, 29 October 2014 20:04)

Well, if that enables me to buy a house and live a comfortable life I have no problem at all to be "a slave to debt repayments for a fiat currency". Sorry for being so unprincipled (whatever your principle is), but living a comfortable life for me is more important than avoiding to be labeled "a slave to debt repayments", whatever that label means :)
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You are being 'led' by charlatans and criminals. All your institutions are traduced by Common Purpose working to a secretive agenda. Things will get worse before getting much worse in Broken Britain.
(Leonidas, 29 October 2014 20:04)

Hahaha.... I'm sure the British people appreciate you loosing your sleep for their well-being :)

The UK will undoubtedly vote to leave the EU when the referendum comes. The reason why this has ramifications for all of Europe is once the UK leaves, other countries in Northern Europe will want to leave too. Meanwhile the austerity-hit southern European countries will continue to detest the painful policies that were drafted by the unelected central commission in Brussels.

The EU is literally the perfect recipe for European disunity and division. It is creating the kind of resentment that will take decades to repair. Sooner rather than later, the EU will completely crumble and disintegrate and Germany will for the 3rd time in 100 years fail to conquer the continent.

Let's just hope Serbia will be able to get Germany the hell out of its country once this happens.
(Ari Gold, 29 October 2014 12:21)

After reading the rumbling above, I'm sure that the EU is doing something right to make you write all that garbage :)
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Support for the EU in the UK is NOT at an all-time high. Such ridiculous propaganda based on very biased polls that do not reflect the situation on the ground.
(Ari Gold, 29 October 2014 16:31)

And where do you base that statement? On a poll of a certain Ari Gold's brain cells? I take it that must be a much more reliable and unbiased source of polling :)

In few years from now Euro-Land will be a far flung memory like that of ancient Rome.
(Leonidas, 30 October 2014 00:07)

Yep, that's what we also heard a few years ago that in few years from then Euro-Land will be a far flung memory like that of ancient Rome, but for some reason that time stubbornly refuses to come so we could all celebrate and, most importantly, you could get your sleep back :)

icj1

That's why people from all over the world want to study in Britain, instead of, say, the Moscow University :)

Getting a university degree in media studies and loaded with a £60k debt is quite an achievement. Wouldn't you agree? At least they'll be qualified (if they're lucky) to get a temping job doing photocopying and filing.

Well, if that enables me to buy a house and live a comfortable life I have no problem at all to be "a slave to debt repayments for a fiat currency".

I can understand your sympathise the banksters -being a banking expert yourself specialised in money creation-but it's laughable to suggest that young people in UK today can afford to get onto housing ladder.Have you got any idea of UK housing prices?

Hahaha.... I'm sure the British people appreciate you loosing your sleep for their well-being :)

It will be the politicians who will be losing their sleep come May 2015.Farage is not a fluke.

Getting a university degree in media studies and loaded with a £60k debt is quite an achievement. Wouldn't you agree? At least they'll be qualified (if they're lucky) to get a temping job doing photocopying and filing.
(Leonidas, 30 October 2014 20:05)

Don't ask me :) You need to convince those people getting those degrees. If they are happy, I'm happy for them... is that simple! I'm really not getting what you're trying to convey :)
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I can understand your sympathise the banksters
(Leonidas, 30 October 2014 20:05)

Who told you I'm sympathising the banksters? I do what enables me to live a comfortable life. I could not care less whether that's labeled sympathising the banksters or not, whatever that means. I don't do things for labels lol
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but it's laughable to suggest that young people in UK today can afford to get onto housing ladder.
(Leonidas, 30 October 2014 20:05)

I did not suggest that. And in any case that's something that happens all the over the world and worse than in the UK, so I'm really not getting what your point is :)
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It will be the politicians who will be losing their sleep come May 2015.Farage is not a fluke.
(Leonidas, 30 October 2014 20:05)

That's very good. Politicians should always be losing their sleep and be afraid of the voters. When politicians don't loose their sleep and be afraid of voters, countries go towards collapse - Russia is a very good example of that.

...and, how is that the fault of the EU? Is there an EU directive that pushes students to take up media studies, art studies, and what not? You're veering from one subject to another. Unless the EU has forced British Universities to offer namby pamby studies to students and then forced students to pick them, I really don't see the correlation that you're offering between the EU and Britain

I really don't see the correlation that you're offering between the EU and Britain
(Nikolle, 31 October 2014 12:48)

It's you that made the connection,I didn't.My comment with regard to education was on Britain not the EU.It was the previous Labour government in Britain which set targets with regard to students going to University(37-50%), not the EU.

According to my logic politicians are elected by their countrymen to serve them and not to be obedient EU quislings.
(Leonidas, 30 October 2014 18:30)

Not sure what an "EU quisling" is :) But anyway, all EU politicians/commissioners/employees/etc are elected/appointed/hired indirectly by the EU citizens, the same way that say, Greece's Minister of Finance is indirectly elected/appointed/hired by the Greece citizens. Greek citizens have not directly elected Greece's Minister of Finance. So, not sure what you are trying to convey!
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According to you (Albanian mentality) the ultimate authority should be the unelected EU bureucrats and national politicians should just follow orders.
(Leonidas, 30 October 2014 18:30)

There are no unelected EU bureucrats! Or, if you wish, they are as "unelected" as Greece's Minister of Finance. National politicians should follow EU Law (which is different from "orders") for matters that are regulated at the EU level. The same way that national politicians should follow the UK law for matters that are regulated at the UK level and municipal law for matters that are regulated at the municipal level. A national politician must pay a fine for illegal parking in London. That's called obeying the City of London's municipal law and it pretty normal. So, I'm really not sure what is the problem that you are trying to convey - it appears you have some issues with crystallizing your thoughts :)

This article here, is about Britain's relationship with the EU. So as EU citizens, British students can skip the high fees they face in the UK and enrol in say, Germany, France, Sweeden where as home students, they would pay the going rates of French students, German, students, Swedish students etc. Another advantage to being an EU member, whereas pulling out, will mean high fees at home and high fees abroad. Don't worry though, they can always study in India, who needs the EU for that right. That evil evil EU, what it has done to the UK (!)

Barosso was never voted into EU parliament by the people of Europe.He only got the job through the various deals stuck in the smocky back rooms.
(Leonidas, 31 October 2014 17:58)

He was appointed as Commission President by the European Council which is composed of people elected directly or indirectly by the European citizens and was approved by the European Parliament. Barosso was not appointed by Martians or the Chinese :) Just because the head of the executive is not directly elected, does not make it undemocratic. For example, Manmohan Singh, who was Prime Minister of India for 10 years until 2014 was never directly elected by the people.
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It has been controlled by fascists ever since.The EU is a new Soviet Union (under German control) in the making - and threatens to become the 4th Reich.
(Leonidas, 31 October 2014 17:58)

Obviously the above is simply garbage not substantiated by evidence. As for the fascists, the only place you can find them in Europe today is in Moscow. But it shows that you really hate the EU. That's good news - that means that the EU must be doing something right. I'd be concerned if somebody like you would not hate the EU.

Should the UK consumers pay higher prices for energy just to make you happy?

(icj1

As an Albanian economist you know a thing or two about energy prices in UK.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/nov/16/energy-prices-rise

The UK still has a fishing industry, so it's not been destroyed.

You also seem to be an authority on fishing.

http://www.weeklygripe.co.uk/a86.asp

According to my logic politicians are elected by their countrymen to serve them and not to be obedient EU quislings.According to you (Albanian mentality) the ultimate authority should be the unelected EU bureucrats and national politicians should just follow orders.

Yep, that's what we also heard a few years ago that in few years from then Euro-Land will be a far flung memory like that of ancient Rome, but for some reason that time stubbornly refuses to come so we could all celebrate and, most importantly, you could get your sleep back :)
(icj1,

As a distinguished Albanian economist you should've been aware that monetary unions cannot work unless there is central economic and financial management of the member countries, or unless the more successful members are prepared to write blank, unconditional cheques to the end of time for the struggling members.Neither is even remotely possible so the Eurozone must fail.This playground for conmen, failed politicians and thieves is a long, protracted, miserable coda on a failed experiment.

"Getting a university degree in media studies and loaded with a £60k debt is quite an achievement."

Is media studies all you can take in British Universities these days?

Is media studies all you can take in British Universities these days?
(Nikolle, 31 October 2014 10:06)

I haven't said that media courses are the only courses that students take at Universities. What I meant by naming media studies as an example is that some courses do need a reality check; more law students are turned out every year than can ever be employed in law ( half of law graduates cannot even get a training contract). 5,000 fine art graduates were released into the world, all bogusly focussed on fulfilling the desires of a dozen or so London galleries.
The debts students now graduate with are very serious and I think it's sadly inevitable that people should start to ask if they're getting value for money.It's not a luxury that any country can afford when 40% or more are being pushed in that direction.

Yep, that's what we also heard a few years ago that in few years from then Euro-Land will be a far flung memory like that of ancient Rome, but for some reason that time stubbornly refuses to come so we could all celebrate and, most importantly, you could get your sleep back :)
(icj1,

As a distinguished Albanian economist you should've been aware that monetary unions cannot work unless there is central economic and financial management of the member countries, or unless the more successful members are prepared to write blank, unconditional cheques to the end of time for the struggling members.Neither is even remotely possible so the Eurozone must fail.This playground for conmen, failed politicians and thieves is a long, protracted, miserable coda on a failed experiment.
(Leonidas, 31 October 2014 00:20)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, I know all of that and bla, bla, bla... We've indeed been hearing for years that in few years it will collapse but that "few years" stubbornly refuses to materialize. So, when will we celebrate that moment, mate?

Should the UK consumers pay higher prices for energy just to make you happy?
(icj1
As an Albanian economist you know a thing or two about energy prices in UK.
[link]
(Leonidas, 30 October 2014 18:30)

Nice try mate, but my quote was "Because the imported coal is cheaper than the one mined in the UK. Should the UK consumers pay higher prices for energy just to make you happy?!" The link you quoted proves nothing to contradict the fact that imported coal is cheaper than the one mined in the UK. Your link just shows that prices have increased, but it does not say that they increased because coal was imported instead of being mined in the UK. We're not debating here whether the prices have increased or not. We were debating your statement "The craziness goes on and on. You are a major coal resource, and yet you import most of the coal you use.". Even you understood that link does not help your argument and thus you had to cut the first part of the quote from me :)
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The UK still has a fishing industry, so it's not been destroyed.

You also seem to be an authority on fishing.

[link]
(Leonidas, 30 October 2014 18:30)

I'm not sure what that link is and what its sources are (it does not quote any source). But it any case even that link proves my point that UK's fishing industry has not been destroyed. You tried hard to find the link above to just prove my point that you were wrong :)

If you compare tone by tone prices,as the tories did, you might have a point.But if you include the overall social cost ie not only the loss of revenue by the exchequer in terms of tax and national insurance contributions but also the financial support given to thousands on unemployed coalminers then the imported coal becomes more expensive and studies have already shown that.The decision to import coal was rather ideological than financial.
(Leonidas, 31 October 2014 17:58)

Yes, that decision was made by the markets but markets don't decide based on ideology... is as simple as that.
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What a nonsense. The Greek minister of finance has been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people and then is apppointed as a minister by the prime minister.
(Leonidas, 31 October 2014 17:58)

Nope, that's a total LIE. Mr. Gikas Hardouvelis, the Greek Finance Minister, HAS NOT been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people. The factual LIES you state here are really astonishing!!! You simply fabricate "facts" without regard to what the reality is.
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The EUSSR, which Juncker now controls, was born in the Nazi Party.
The first EUSSR Commission president was a man named Walter Hallstein, who was a top flight lawyer and recruiter for the Nazi Party.
(Leonidas, 31 October 2014 17:58)

Hahaha, nice hallucinations, like the other lies you stated before.

This article here, is about Britain's relationship with the EU.
(Nikolle,

Well I've said it before but let me repeat it again.David Cameron will never call for the UK to leave the EU.He says he will wage a "long, tough fight" to reform Brussels before campaigning for Britain to remain in the EU in an in-out referendum he has promised to hold in 2017. This statement is irrational and laughable. Anyone with half a brain knows that the EU elite are moving in the direction that treaties empower them to do. There's nothing to negotiate, the question is a simple one: The EU will eventually become a single nation with regional cantons (England, Germany, France, etc) all under the rule of an EU president, all using the Euro and all under the same rules with no opt-outs.For scout Dave and other members of the treacherous mainstream political/media circus to claim that they have a way of milking tortoises or changing the colour of sky is arrant nonsense.

Yes, that decision was made by the markets but markets don't decide based on ideology... is as simple as that.

The decision was made by M Thatcher not the markets.

Nope, that's a total LIE. Mr. Gikas Hardouvelis, the Greek Finance Minister, HAS NOT been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people. The factual LIES you state here are really astonishing!!! You simply fabricate "facts" without regard to what the reality is.

My little Albanian stalker with the multiple IDs you're still sphewing the same ignorant fairytales.Remember Greek democracy was abolished in 2011 when the former prime minister Papandreou was dismissed by the EU and replaced by Goldman Sacks boy Papademos.Hardouvelis was also part of the so-called technocratic team approved by the EU.Prior to 2011 the appointment of all ministers was the prerogative of the Prime Minister and on condition they were elected as members of parliament.

But it shows that you really hate the EU.

I would have supported a democratic EU made up of independent states that existed to defend the common man against the neoliberal corporatists, but the EU is a massive fascist project, whose purpose now is to buttress the power of its ruling elites .

that means that the EU must be doing something right

The EU you so admire is on a life-support machine and unless Germany undertakes all EU debts and guaranteeing the transfer of its surpluses to weaker members of the union the whole project will collapse.

My little Albanian stalker with the multiple IDs you're still sphewing the same ignorant fairytales.
(Leonidas, 2 November 2014 11:18)

hahaha, the above shows that you are a typical liar who, when is caught in blatant lie, diverts the discussion to personal attacks.
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Remember Greek democracy was abolished in 2011 when the former prime minister Papandreou was dismissed by the EU and replaced by Goldman Sacks boy Papademos.Hardouvelis was also part of the so-called technocratic team approved by the EU.Prior to 2011 the appointment of all ministers was the prerogative of the Prime Minister and on condition they were elected as members of parliament.
(Leonidas, 2 November 2014 11:18)

That's not what you said... You said "What a nonsense. The Greek minister of finance has been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people and then is apppointed as a minister by the prime minister". That statement is a BLATANT LIE because the Greek Minister of Finance HAS NOT been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people. End of that story about that blatant lie of yours.

Now, if you want to move into other "facts" about how things worked in 2011, 1011 or 311 BC, we can certainly start to have that discussion and see whether you are fabricating other "facts" which may very well be other lies.

The decision was made by M Thatcher not the markets.
(Leonidas, 2 November 2014 11:18)

Well, markets are more powerful than M Thatcher, so it does not really matter what M Thatcher has decided; markets would overrule that. And, even if you are correct, then it was M Thatcher, not the EU, so not sure what your point about the EU is!!!
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I would have supported a democratic EU made up of independent states that existed to defend the common man against the neoliberal corporatists, but the EU is a massive fascist project, whose purpose now is to buttress the power of its ruling elites.
(Leonidas, 2 November 2014 11:18)

Evidence, please?! And, if possible, not based on fabricated "facts". Also, what does "defend the common man against the neoliberal corporatists" mean? You have any idea yourself?!
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The EU you so admire is on a life-support machine and unless Germany undertakes all EU debts and guaranteeing the transfer of its surpluses to weaker members of the union the whole project will collapse.
(Leonidas, 2 November 2014 11:18)

Ok, great. Feel free to celebrate that the EU you so much hate will collapse soon :) Let us know when you receive the good news lol

hahaha, the above shows that you are a typical liar who, when is caught in blatant lie, diverts the discussion to personal attacks.

Really?The fact that you never post yourself but instead you stalk certain posters like a voyeur trying to make cheap points under various IDs says a lot about you.How much do they pay you?

That statement is a BLATANT LIE

The blatant lie and ignorance is a trait of the googled educated Albanians like yourself .You got the name of the Greek finance minister from the internet and then try to turn ignorance to your advantage.Soon you're going to tell us the EU foreign Minister Lade Ashton was voted into her position.

Well, markets are more powerful

There is no such a thing as free markets. Free market ceased to exist more than 40 years ago. Nixon drove a stake through its heart by shutting down the Bretton Woods world monetary system, without which free markets cannot exist.But economists like yourself should know the reason for this
is money’s value is controlled not by the markets but by a federal agency, the Fed, or by other world central banks that think they alone thereby can control the economy.

Evidence, please?!

The EU sacking and replacing of the Italian and Greek governments with technocrats ,its refusal to allow the French and Dutch electorate to hold referenda on the EU constitution and forcing the Irish people to hold a second referendum on the same treaty because the first one went against them.That's fascism.

Really?The fact that you never post yourself but instead you stalk certain posters like a voyeur trying to make cheap points under various IDs says a lot about you.How much do they pay you?
(Leonidas, 4 November 2014 13:50)

haha, "you never post yourself" is in contrast with "you stalk certain posters like a voyeur trying to make cheap points". You have to decide which one is true as you are being contradictory with yourself :)
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The blatant lie and ignorance is a trait of the googled educated Albanians like yourself .You got the name of the Greek finance minister from the internet and then try to turn ignorance to your advantage.
(Leonidas, 4 November 2014 13:50)

Of course I did that. After you said "What a nonsense. The Greek minister of finance has been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people" I got the name of the Greek finance minister from www.minfin.gr and then checked www.hellenicparliament.gr and that revealed that you were blatantly lying. What did you want me to do? Not to check the facts but fabricate them from my imagination like you do?!

The EU sacking and replacing of the Italian and Greek governments with technocrats ,its refusal to allow the French and Dutch electorate to hold referenda on the EU constitution and forcing the Irish people to hold a second referendum on the same treaty because the first one went against them.
(Leonidas, 4 November 2014 13:50)

That's not evidence, that is your opinion, which frankly are very dubious now that you are a certified liar without a shadow of a doubt! Evidence means facts, documents, etc., not your opinions.

you never post yourself" is in contrast with "you stalk certain posters like a voyeur trying to make cheap points".

They are both true statements regarding yourself.You're not a poster in the true sense but a stalker or a voyeur.

Of course I did that.

I knew you did and do you know what they say?Half knowledge is worse than ignorance.

That's not evidence, that is your opinion,

One would rather tend to believe the words of the Italian and Greek former prime ministers than those of an Albanian peeping tom.Enjoy your voyeurism!

They are both true statements regarding yourself.You're not a poster in the true sense but a stalker or a voyeur.
(Leonidas, 5 November 2014 20:15)

Why? Because you say so?! You may repeat as many times as you want that 1+1=3, but it does not make it true :) If I never post myself, I can't make cheap points. Or in order to make cheap points I have to post. In either case your statement is contradictory lol
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I knew you did and do you know what they say?Half knowledge is worse than ignorance.
(Leonidas, 5 November 2014 20:15)

Of course, I never claimed I am knowledgeable about Greek politics. But I researched the facts I was not knowledgeable about and proved that you were incorrect. So, either (A) you are ignorant and fabricated the facts or (B) you are knowledgeable and chose to lie. I don't really care if you pick (A) or (B). The fact remains that you said "What a nonsense. The Greek minister of finance has been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people" when the facts showed that the Greek minister of finance has NOT been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people.
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One would rather tend to believe the words of the Italian and Greek former prime ministers than those of an Albanian peeping tom.Enjoy your voyeurism!
(Leonidas, 5 November 2014 20:15)

One would tend to believe the indisputable fact that the Greek minister of finance has NOT been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people vs your lies!

You may as well post under a different name and stalk under the name 0f icj1. Evereybody knows that Albanians are masters in disguise.

Of course, I never claimed I am knowledgeable about Greek politics. But I researched the facts

Do you know the difference between googling and research?Look it up on your dictionary.

Finally, stalkers ,like yourself,suffer from a mental disorder often schizophrenia or paranoia ,nevertheless nearly all display some delusional thought patterns and behaviour.You definitely need help.

You may as well post under a different name and stalk under the name 0f icj1. Evereybody knows that Albanians are masters in disguise.
(Leonidas, 7 November 2014 17:30)

Sure, will do that if that makes you happy lol Now back to the topic that you are making no sense. "you never post yourself" and "you stalk certain posters like a voyeur trying to make cheap points" can't both happen as they contradict each-other. You can either save half of your statement or leave it all as a non-sense statement :)
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Do you know the difference between googling and research?Look it up on your dictionary.
(Leonidas, 7 November 2014 17:30)

It's OK, you can label it whatever you want: googling, giggling or whatever, if that makes you happy. But that thing I did worked, because it revealed that your statement "What a nonsense. The Greek minister of finance has been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people" was a LIE because the Greek minister of finance has NOT been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people.
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Finally, stalkers ,like yourself,suffer from a mental disorder often schizophrenia or paranoia ,nevertheless nearly all display some delusional thought patterns and behaviour.You definitely need help.
(Leonidas, 7 November 2014 17:30)

Oh OK, you define the above as getting the facts right instead of fabricating them and lying. I don't have a problem being described as getting the facts right instead of lying.

Now back to the topic

There are no unelected EU bureucrats!

That's a big lie.I did ask you to explain whether Lady Ashton was elected but you've been either evasive or ignorant.

You got the name of the Greek finance minister from the internet and then try to turn ignorance to your advantage.
(Leonidas, 4 November 2014 13:50)

Of course I did that.But I researched the facts I was not knowledgeable about and proved that you were incorrect.
You researched sweet FA.Had you done so you would've noticed the points that I made below ie since 2011 all government ministers in Greece must be approved by the fascist EU/IMF troika which has taken over the country.

can't both happen as they contradict each-other. You can either save half of your statement or leave it all as a non-sense statement

I can give you many examples of posters on this site who post under many names and you're one of them.My suggestion to you is to try and grow a pair and engage with others in a constructive way ie avoid voyeurism.

This is a shame (not). It comes at at a time where public support for the EU is at the highest it has been since 1991. We don't need to leave the EU, we need EU refrom.

All that leaving the EU would do, would be to f*** up our economy. We'd lose free trade & freedom of movement with our main economic parteners which would mean prices would go up; which means foreign investers (not just from the EU) would leave the UK. This means unemployment would rapidly increase & our economy would collapse even further. Not to mention that the NHS wouldn't be sustainable, we'd lose out on tourism, our Univeristies would be short of money & the economic migrants from Eastern Europe which our economy relies on would be gone. Also we'd become an US colony where we have no elected representatives intead of being part of a European family where we have elected representatives.

Many people in the UK are ignorant towards the EU and are only opposed to it due to propaganda from Right-Wing Newspapers such as the Daily Mirror, Daily Express & Rupert Murdoch's papers; they're opposed to the EU because the EU is the only authority able to control these evil corperations. David Cameron wouldn't dare tackle with them becuase these papers put him in power in the first place. And of course the self-serving, lying, racist, sexist, white, middle class UKIP of South-East England wouldn't be affected by the UK leaving the EU because they're super rich unlike the common people.

Reform not Exit.

@Ari Gold

Nigel Farage is a quick fix politican who offers no real solutions to people beyond scapegoating immigrants and the EU. He is one of those people who believes if there were only fewer foreigners working and EU exit, all the problems of Britain would melt. In short, he is a moron. That he has tapped into a lot of disgruntled white voters is obvious, but a vote for UKIP will be a vote for stupidity. No wonder you have sympathy for him, given your worryingly low level of intelligence.

Let's be clear, there will be a referendum if the Conservatives win the next election outright. This vote was an attempt to enshrine such a referendum into law rather than leave it to the whim of whoever is the next Prime Minister. Ian makes many good points and I would vote to stay in. The latest opinion polls in fact show a lead for those who wish to remain in the EU, despite the rise of UKIP. Let's not forget that you need 50.001% to win a referendum and UKIP is polling 15-18%. The status quo always gains in the last days of a debate, witness Quebec and Scotland so if it is close at the outset of a campaign then staying in is almost certainly the outcome.

The UK would not lose out on free trade with the EU because the EU sells to the UK far more than the UK does to the EU.
(Ari Gold, 29 October 2014 16:31)


Exactly!

We import from the EU tax free and from other countries which the EU has free trade agreements with, we'd lose all that if we left the EU. We import on a huge scale from the EU, imagine how much more we'd have to pay if we lost that free trade? My weekly shop at the supermarket would be almost double, alcohol would double, as would electrical and mechanical goods which are assembled in the EU, the UK would have to pay tax on all of that if we left the EU. Cars, TVs, machinery, mobile phones, food ect would all be a lot more expensive outside the EU. Premier League clubs would suffer when having to pay tax from buy footballers abroad. Many working class people are struggling to get by now, imagine how they'd be struggling if the prices of everything went up if we left the EU? If we left the EU many local and national businesses would struggle to operate due to the British public's disposable income significantly decreasing. It is estimated that each person would be £3,5000 worse off each year if we left the EU. A comfortable middle class family would have a short fall of at least £7,000+ each year to live off if we left the EU.

Anyway Ari, I don't know why I bothered wasting my time on you because you've proven on many occasions how ignorant you are on the EU.

"German bureaucrat in Brussels can make 75% of your laws."

You have British bureaucrats in Brussels as well. Plus, you can elect your MEP. Also, never understood why 75% of laws made in Brussels is so bad. If the laws are good and make sense, what's the problem? You need similar to common laws when you engage in trade and various other interactions. Even if Britain exists the EU, their laws will be the same/similar to those of the EU. sort of like Norway. Funny, people who despise the EU cheer a Slavic union, A EURASIAN Union, a Russio-China union etc

UKIP leader Nigel Farage is the most significant political actor in the entire continent of Europe right now. Because of his presence and the surge in support for UKIP in Britain, pressure is rising for the domestic EUrophile political elite to start taking their demands seriously.

The UK will undoubtedly vote to leave the EU when the referendum comes. The reason why this has ramifications for all of Europe is once the UK leaves, other countries in Northern Europe will want to leave too. Meanwhile the austerity-hit southern European countries will continue to detest the painful policies that were drafted by the unelected central commission in Brussels.

The EU is literally the perfect recipe for European disunity and division. It is creating the kind of resentment that will take decades to repair. Sooner rather than later, the EU will completely crumble and disintegrate and Germany will for the 3rd time in 100 years fail to conquer the continent.

Let's just hope Serbia will be able to get Germany the hell out of its country once this happens.

(Ian, UK, 29 October 2014 13:29)

Support for the EU in the UK is NOT at an all-time high. Such ridiculous propaganda based on very biased polls that do not reflect the situation on the ground. In fact, your EU federalist anti-sovereign ideology is quickly falling into fringe thought with the rest of the mainstream parties in the UK working over-time to pander to UKIP supporters.

The UK would not lose out on free trade with the EU because the EU sells to the UK far more than the UK does to the EU. The imbalance is not even close and Brussels needs the UK more than vice-versa. You just loathe nation-states and have such little confidence in your own country to think that it can be independent. After all, this is the UK we're talking about. The little island that brutally colonized half the globe and now you're saying you can't even be a self-governing nation?

But I never get tired of your ahead-of-the-curb, smug superiority you seem to think you have. So the problem is that most people are just not educated and smart as you to understand what the EU is really all about. They aren't as advanced and as modern as you are and therefore they cannot see the benefits of handing over billions of pounds every year so some German bureaucrat in Brussels can make 75% of your laws. Thank God we have someone as intelligent as you to educate everyone.

Nation-State Democracy ≠ EU

That's why we'll be voting for UKIP come the next election and an end to the farce of EU corruption and austerity. We've had enough of the three stooges, IE Cameron Clegg and that twerp Ed the red Miliband. UKIP is the only answer for Britain.

I wonder why Serbia is so keep to join the EU knowing what will happen once they do get in?? I hope you guys know what you doing.

We'd lose free trade

(Ian, UK,

Trade is all very well, but do you make anything? Britain has been moving from manufacturing to service for decades. How do you trade service? Does it fit into containers?
And on Britain's so-called financial services sector: we saw that eggs-in-one-basket market collapse a few years ago and plunged you into the present debacle. You had no manufacturing to fall back on and sustain you , as did Germany for example.
The craziness goes on and on. You are a major coal resource, and yet you import most of the coal you use. You used to have a vast fishing industry, and yet the EU ordered its destruction, and you obliged.
Your government simply genuflects before the great EU authority. It closes cheap and highly productive coal-fired power stations and erects thousands of ineffective and highly costly windmills.
Britain is clapped out. The youth have not had a decent education for decades. The banksters have turned everyone and every business into a slave to debt repayments for a fiat currency. All your infrastructure is clapped out and NIMBYs block renewal. In many towns, there's a fifth column of islamists grooming & raping children & plotting mass casualty events. Welfare handouts provide an acceptable income for no effort. You are being 'led' by charlatans and criminals. All your institutions are traduced by Common Purpose working to a secretive agenda. Things will get worse before getting much worse in Broken Britain.

The craziness goes on and on. You are a major coal resource, and yet you import most of the coal you use.
(Leonidas, 29 October 2014 20:04)

Because the imported coal is cheaper than the one mined in the UK. Should the UK consumers pay higher prices for energy just to make you happy?!
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You used to have a vast fishing industry, and yet the EU ordered its destruction, and you obliged.
(Leonidas, 29 October 2014 20:04)

Where is the order so that we can see it, dear? The UK still has a fishing industry, so it's not been destroyed. If you mean that under EU regulations there are limits to fishing, I don't see what's the problem with that. I assume you are aware that fishing resources are not unlimited for somebody to fish as much and he wants.
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Your government simply genuflects before the great EU authority.
(Leonidas, 29 October 2014 20:04)

And, what's the problem with that? There are things that makes sense to be regulated at the EU level (like the fishing), others that makes sense to be regulated at the country level, others at the provincial level and yet others at the municipality level. According to your logic, ultimately every authority should be disbanded and every person should rule by him/herself in order to not genuflect before a greater authority, whether municipal, provincial, national or international - so basically you want the chaos; people in the natural state like animals under the law of the jungle :)

It closes cheap and highly productive coal-fired power stations and erects thousands of ineffective and highly costly windmills.
(Leonidas, 29 October 2014 20:04)

And, who told told you that after doing a cost-benefit analysis, including environmental costs, that is not the right course of action? Nobody wants to become like China. People do care about the quality of life in the UK.
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Britain is clapped out. The youth have not had a decent education for decades.
(Leonidas, 29 October 2014 20:04)

That's why people from all over the world want to study in Britain, instead of, say, the Moscow University :)
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The banksters have turned everyone and every business into a slave to debt repayments for a fiat currency.
(Leonidas, 29 October 2014 20:04)

Well, if that enables me to buy a house and live a comfortable life I have no problem at all to be "a slave to debt repayments for a fiat currency". Sorry for being so unprincipled (whatever your principle is), but living a comfortable life for me is more important than avoiding to be labeled "a slave to debt repayments", whatever that label means :)
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You are being 'led' by charlatans and criminals. All your institutions are traduced by Common Purpose working to a secretive agenda. Things will get worse before getting much worse in Broken Britain.
(Leonidas, 29 October 2014 20:04)

Hahaha.... I'm sure the British people appreciate you loosing your sleep for their well-being :)

The UK will undoubtedly vote to leave the EU when the referendum comes. The reason why this has ramifications for all of Europe is once the UK leaves, other countries in Northern Europe will want to leave too. Meanwhile the austerity-hit southern European countries will continue to detest the painful policies that were drafted by the unelected central commission in Brussels.

The EU is literally the perfect recipe for European disunity and division. It is creating the kind of resentment that will take decades to repair. Sooner rather than later, the EU will completely crumble and disintegrate and Germany will for the 3rd time in 100 years fail to conquer the continent.

Let's just hope Serbia will be able to get Germany the hell out of its country once this happens.
(Ari Gold, 29 October 2014 12:21)

After reading the rumbling above, I'm sure that the EU is doing something right to make you write all that garbage :)
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Support for the EU in the UK is NOT at an all-time high. Such ridiculous propaganda based on very biased polls that do not reflect the situation on the ground.
(Ari Gold, 29 October 2014 16:31)

And where do you base that statement? On a poll of a certain Ari Gold's brain cells? I take it that must be a much more reliable and unbiased source of polling :)

Ian

Anyone who places any faith on government figures on anything-including
immigration,inflation,unemployment etc needs their head examining.The UK is a bubble economy that is propped up on printing money and debt-which still 6 years after the crash -is borrowing between £100-120 billion more each year than it earns and is adding it to the whopping £1.4 trillion of accrued debt on which is paying more than £50 billion a year to service the interest payment on.
The reality of the UKs dire economic position is carefully masked by such feelgood MSM embellished nonsense that is spoon fed to them by government propaganda machine so the sheep don't get frightened and stampede the pen.As George Orwell said 'We are all capable of believing things we know to be untrue, and then, when finally proved wrong by impudently twisting the facts so as to show that we a right, intellectually, it is possible to carry on the process indefinetly: the only check on it is that sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality, usually on a battlefield'.
As to EU it will be taken down by the people it falsely claims to represent.In few years from now Euro-Land will be a far flung memory like that of ancient Rome.

Should the UK consumers pay higher prices for energy just to make you happy?

(icj1

As an Albanian economist you know a thing or two about energy prices in UK.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/nov/16/energy-prices-rise

The UK still has a fishing industry, so it's not been destroyed.

You also seem to be an authority on fishing.

http://www.weeklygripe.co.uk/a86.asp

According to my logic politicians are elected by their countrymen to serve them and not to be obedient EU quislings.According to you (Albanian mentality) the ultimate authority should be the unelected EU bureucrats and national politicians should just follow orders.

The link you quoted proves nothing to contradict the fact that imported coal is cheaper than the one mined in the UK.

If you compare tone by tone prices,as the tories did, you might have a point.But if you include the overall social cost ie not only the loss of revenue by the exchequer in terms of tax and national insurance contributions but also the financial support given to thousands on unemployed coalminers then the imported coal becomes more expensive and studies have already shown that.The decision to import coal was rather ideological than financial.

There are no unelected EU bureucrats! Or, if you wish, they are as "unelected" as Greece's Minister of Finance.

What a nonsense. The Greek minister of finance has been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people and then is apppointed as a minister by the prime minister. Barosso was never voted into EU parliament by the people of Europe.He only got the job through the various deals stuck in the smocky back rooms.

We've indeed been hearing for years that in few years it will collapse but that "few years" stubbornly refuses to materialize.

The EUSSR, which Juncker now controls, was born in the Nazi Party.
The first EUSSR Commission president was a man named Walter Hallstein, who was a top flight lawyer and recruiter for the Nazi Party.It has been controlled by fascists ever since.The EU is a new Soviet Union (under German control) in the making - and threatens to become the 4th Reich.

Sorry Ned

But I don't believe David Cameron's word one bit. Before he came into office he promised a referendum, he did not deliver and he will not deliver if by some miracle he does get into office next election. We've been lied to so too many times to trust either of the so called three main parties. It's time for change and change will come next election. Most of us have had enough of the EU corruption, it's a bloody farce and time for out. We cannot keep letting people into the country when our own youth are finding it hard to get jobs. Time for us to take control of our borders and our own country. I will not be dictated to by those unseen corrupt politicians who call the shots in the EU. The EU is a disaster for Europe and its peoples as we have clearly seen.

Yep, that's what we also heard a few years ago that in few years from then Euro-Land will be a far flung memory like that of ancient Rome, but for some reason that time stubbornly refuses to come so we could all celebrate and, most importantly, you could get your sleep back :)
(icj1,

As a distinguished Albanian economist you should've been aware that monetary unions cannot work unless there is central economic and financial management of the member countries, or unless the more successful members are prepared to write blank, unconditional cheques to the end of time for the struggling members.Neither is even remotely possible so the Eurozone must fail.This playground for conmen, failed politicians and thieves is a long, protracted, miserable coda on a failed experiment.

Is media studies all you can take in British Universities these days?
(Nikolle, 31 October 2014 10:06)

I haven't said that media courses are the only courses that students take at Universities. What I meant by naming media studies as an example is that some courses do need a reality check; more law students are turned out every year than can ever be employed in law ( half of law graduates cannot even get a training contract). 5,000 fine art graduates were released into the world, all bogusly focussed on fulfilling the desires of a dozen or so London galleries.
The debts students now graduate with are very serious and I think it's sadly inevitable that people should start to ask if they're getting value for money.It's not a luxury that any country can afford when 40% or more are being pushed in that direction.

This article here, is about Britain's relationship with the EU.
(Nikolle,

Well I've said it before but let me repeat it again.David Cameron will never call for the UK to leave the EU.He says he will wage a "long, tough fight" to reform Brussels before campaigning for Britain to remain in the EU in an in-out referendum he has promised to hold in 2017. This statement is irrational and laughable. Anyone with half a brain knows that the EU elite are moving in the direction that treaties empower them to do. There's nothing to negotiate, the question is a simple one: The EU will eventually become a single nation with regional cantons (England, Germany, France, etc) all under the rule of an EU president, all using the Euro and all under the same rules with no opt-outs.For scout Dave and other members of the treacherous mainstream political/media circus to claim that they have a way of milking tortoises or changing the colour of sky is arrant nonsense.

In few years from now Euro-Land will be a far flung memory like that of ancient Rome.
(Leonidas, 30 October 2014 00:07)

Yep, that's what we also heard a few years ago that in few years from then Euro-Land will be a far flung memory like that of ancient Rome, but for some reason that time stubbornly refuses to come so we could all celebrate and, most importantly, you could get your sleep back :)

icj1

That's why people from all over the world want to study in Britain, instead of, say, the Moscow University :)

Getting a university degree in media studies and loaded with a £60k debt is quite an achievement. Wouldn't you agree? At least they'll be qualified (if they're lucky) to get a temping job doing photocopying and filing.

Well, if that enables me to buy a house and live a comfortable life I have no problem at all to be "a slave to debt repayments for a fiat currency".

I can understand your sympathise the banksters -being a banking expert yourself specialised in money creation-but it's laughable to suggest that young people in UK today can afford to get onto housing ladder.Have you got any idea of UK housing prices?

Hahaha.... I'm sure the British people appreciate you loosing your sleep for their well-being :)

It will be the politicians who will be losing their sleep come May 2015.Farage is not a fluke.

Getting a university degree in media studies and loaded with a £60k debt is quite an achievement. Wouldn't you agree? At least they'll be qualified (if they're lucky) to get a temping job doing photocopying and filing.
(Leonidas, 30 October 2014 20:05)

Don't ask me :) You need to convince those people getting those degrees. If they are happy, I'm happy for them... is that simple! I'm really not getting what you're trying to convey :)
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I can understand your sympathise the banksters
(Leonidas, 30 October 2014 20:05)

Who told you I'm sympathising the banksters? I do what enables me to live a comfortable life. I could not care less whether that's labeled sympathising the banksters or not, whatever that means. I don't do things for labels lol
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but it's laughable to suggest that young people in UK today can afford to get onto housing ladder.
(Leonidas, 30 October 2014 20:05)

I did not suggest that. And in any case that's something that happens all the over the world and worse than in the UK, so I'm really not getting what your point is :)
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It will be the politicians who will be losing their sleep come May 2015.Farage is not a fluke.
(Leonidas, 30 October 2014 20:05)

That's very good. Politicians should always be losing their sleep and be afraid of the voters. When politicians don't loose their sleep and be afraid of voters, countries go towards collapse - Russia is a very good example of that.

"Getting a university degree in media studies and loaded with a £60k debt is quite an achievement."

Is media studies all you can take in British Universities these days?

...and, how is that the fault of the EU? Is there an EU directive that pushes students to take up media studies, art studies, and what not? You're veering from one subject to another. Unless the EU has forced British Universities to offer namby pamby studies to students and then forced students to pick them, I really don't see the correlation that you're offering between the EU and Britain

I really don't see the correlation that you're offering between the EU and Britain
(Nikolle, 31 October 2014 12:48)

It's you that made the connection,I didn't.My comment with regard to education was on Britain not the EU.It was the previous Labour government in Britain which set targets with regard to students going to University(37-50%), not the EU.

Yep, that's what we also heard a few years ago that in few years from then Euro-Land will be a far flung memory like that of ancient Rome, but for some reason that time stubbornly refuses to come so we could all celebrate and, most importantly, you could get your sleep back :)
(icj1,

As a distinguished Albanian economist you should've been aware that monetary unions cannot work unless there is central economic and financial management of the member countries, or unless the more successful members are prepared to write blank, unconditional cheques to the end of time for the struggling members.Neither is even remotely possible so the Eurozone must fail.This playground for conmen, failed politicians and thieves is a long, protracted, miserable coda on a failed experiment.
(Leonidas, 31 October 2014 00:20)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, I know all of that and bla, bla, bla... We've indeed been hearing for years that in few years it will collapse but that "few years" stubbornly refuses to materialize. So, when will we celebrate that moment, mate?

Should the UK consumers pay higher prices for energy just to make you happy?
(icj1
As an Albanian economist you know a thing or two about energy prices in UK.
[link]
(Leonidas, 30 October 2014 18:30)

Nice try mate, but my quote was "Because the imported coal is cheaper than the one mined in the UK. Should the UK consumers pay higher prices for energy just to make you happy?!" The link you quoted proves nothing to contradict the fact that imported coal is cheaper than the one mined in the UK. Your link just shows that prices have increased, but it does not say that they increased because coal was imported instead of being mined in the UK. We're not debating here whether the prices have increased or not. We were debating your statement "The craziness goes on and on. You are a major coal resource, and yet you import most of the coal you use.". Even you understood that link does not help your argument and thus you had to cut the first part of the quote from me :)
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The UK still has a fishing industry, so it's not been destroyed.

You also seem to be an authority on fishing.

[link]
(Leonidas, 30 October 2014 18:30)

I'm not sure what that link is and what its sources are (it does not quote any source). But it any case even that link proves my point that UK's fishing industry has not been destroyed. You tried hard to find the link above to just prove my point that you were wrong :)

According to my logic politicians are elected by their countrymen to serve them and not to be obedient EU quislings.
(Leonidas, 30 October 2014 18:30)

Not sure what an "EU quisling" is :) But anyway, all EU politicians/commissioners/employees/etc are elected/appointed/hired indirectly by the EU citizens, the same way that say, Greece's Minister of Finance is indirectly elected/appointed/hired by the Greece citizens. Greek citizens have not directly elected Greece's Minister of Finance. So, not sure what you are trying to convey!
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According to you (Albanian mentality) the ultimate authority should be the unelected EU bureucrats and national politicians should just follow orders.
(Leonidas, 30 October 2014 18:30)

There are no unelected EU bureucrats! Or, if you wish, they are as "unelected" as Greece's Minister of Finance. National politicians should follow EU Law (which is different from "orders") for matters that are regulated at the EU level. The same way that national politicians should follow the UK law for matters that are regulated at the UK level and municipal law for matters that are regulated at the municipal level. A national politician must pay a fine for illegal parking in London. That's called obeying the City of London's municipal law and it pretty normal. So, I'm really not sure what is the problem that you are trying to convey - it appears you have some issues with crystallizing your thoughts :)

This article here, is about Britain's relationship with the EU. So as EU citizens, British students can skip the high fees they face in the UK and enrol in say, Germany, France, Sweeden where as home students, they would pay the going rates of French students, German, students, Swedish students etc. Another advantage to being an EU member, whereas pulling out, will mean high fees at home and high fees abroad. Don't worry though, they can always study in India, who needs the EU for that right. That evil evil EU, what it has done to the UK (!)

If you compare tone by tone prices,as the tories did, you might have a point.But if you include the overall social cost ie not only the loss of revenue by the exchequer in terms of tax and national insurance contributions but also the financial support given to thousands on unemployed coalminers then the imported coal becomes more expensive and studies have already shown that.The decision to import coal was rather ideological than financial.
(Leonidas, 31 October 2014 17:58)

Yes, that decision was made by the markets but markets don't decide based on ideology... is as simple as that.
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What a nonsense. The Greek minister of finance has been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people and then is apppointed as a minister by the prime minister.
(Leonidas, 31 October 2014 17:58)

Nope, that's a total LIE. Mr. Gikas Hardouvelis, the Greek Finance Minister, HAS NOT been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people. The factual LIES you state here are really astonishing!!! You simply fabricate "facts" without regard to what the reality is.
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The EUSSR, which Juncker now controls, was born in the Nazi Party.
The first EUSSR Commission president was a man named Walter Hallstein, who was a top flight lawyer and recruiter for the Nazi Party.
(Leonidas, 31 October 2014 17:58)

Hahaha, nice hallucinations, like the other lies you stated before.

Barosso was never voted into EU parliament by the people of Europe.He only got the job through the various deals stuck in the smocky back rooms.
(Leonidas, 31 October 2014 17:58)

He was appointed as Commission President by the European Council which is composed of people elected directly or indirectly by the European citizens and was approved by the European Parliament. Barosso was not appointed by Martians or the Chinese :) Just because the head of the executive is not directly elected, does not make it undemocratic. For example, Manmohan Singh, who was Prime Minister of India for 10 years until 2014 was never directly elected by the people.
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It has been controlled by fascists ever since.The EU is a new Soviet Union (under German control) in the making - and threatens to become the 4th Reich.
(Leonidas, 31 October 2014 17:58)

Obviously the above is simply garbage not substantiated by evidence. As for the fascists, the only place you can find them in Europe today is in Moscow. But it shows that you really hate the EU. That's good news - that means that the EU must be doing something right. I'd be concerned if somebody like you would not hate the EU.

Yes, that decision was made by the markets but markets don't decide based on ideology... is as simple as that.

The decision was made by M Thatcher not the markets.

Nope, that's a total LIE. Mr. Gikas Hardouvelis, the Greek Finance Minister, HAS NOT been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people. The factual LIES you state here are really astonishing!!! You simply fabricate "facts" without regard to what the reality is.

My little Albanian stalker with the multiple IDs you're still sphewing the same ignorant fairytales.Remember Greek democracy was abolished in 2011 when the former prime minister Papandreou was dismissed by the EU and replaced by Goldman Sacks boy Papademos.Hardouvelis was also part of the so-called technocratic team approved by the EU.Prior to 2011 the appointment of all ministers was the prerogative of the Prime Minister and on condition they were elected as members of parliament.

But it shows that you really hate the EU.

I would have supported a democratic EU made up of independent states that existed to defend the common man against the neoliberal corporatists, but the EU is a massive fascist project, whose purpose now is to buttress the power of its ruling elites .

that means that the EU must be doing something right

The EU you so admire is on a life-support machine and unless Germany undertakes all EU debts and guaranteeing the transfer of its surpluses to weaker members of the union the whole project will collapse.

My little Albanian stalker with the multiple IDs you're still sphewing the same ignorant fairytales.
(Leonidas, 2 November 2014 11:18)

hahaha, the above shows that you are a typical liar who, when is caught in blatant lie, diverts the discussion to personal attacks.
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Remember Greek democracy was abolished in 2011 when the former prime minister Papandreou was dismissed by the EU and replaced by Goldman Sacks boy Papademos.Hardouvelis was also part of the so-called technocratic team approved by the EU.Prior to 2011 the appointment of all ministers was the prerogative of the Prime Minister and on condition they were elected as members of parliament.
(Leonidas, 2 November 2014 11:18)

That's not what you said... You said "What a nonsense. The Greek minister of finance has been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people and then is apppointed as a minister by the prime minister". That statement is a BLATANT LIE because the Greek Minister of Finance HAS NOT been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people. End of that story about that blatant lie of yours.

Now, if you want to move into other "facts" about how things worked in 2011, 1011 or 311 BC, we can certainly start to have that discussion and see whether you are fabricating other "facts" which may very well be other lies.

The decision was made by M Thatcher not the markets.
(Leonidas, 2 November 2014 11:18)

Well, markets are more powerful than M Thatcher, so it does not really matter what M Thatcher has decided; markets would overrule that. And, even if you are correct, then it was M Thatcher, not the EU, so not sure what your point about the EU is!!!
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I would have supported a democratic EU made up of independent states that existed to defend the common man against the neoliberal corporatists, but the EU is a massive fascist project, whose purpose now is to buttress the power of its ruling elites.
(Leonidas, 2 November 2014 11:18)

Evidence, please?! And, if possible, not based on fabricated "facts". Also, what does "defend the common man against the neoliberal corporatists" mean? You have any idea yourself?!
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The EU you so admire is on a life-support machine and unless Germany undertakes all EU debts and guaranteeing the transfer of its surpluses to weaker members of the union the whole project will collapse.
(Leonidas, 2 November 2014 11:18)

Ok, great. Feel free to celebrate that the EU you so much hate will collapse soon :) Let us know when you receive the good news lol

hahaha, the above shows that you are a typical liar who, when is caught in blatant lie, diverts the discussion to personal attacks.

Really?The fact that you never post yourself but instead you stalk certain posters like a voyeur trying to make cheap points under various IDs says a lot about you.How much do they pay you?

That statement is a BLATANT LIE

The blatant lie and ignorance is a trait of the googled educated Albanians like yourself .You got the name of the Greek finance minister from the internet and then try to turn ignorance to your advantage.Soon you're going to tell us the EU foreign Minister Lade Ashton was voted into her position.

Well, markets are more powerful

There is no such a thing as free markets. Free market ceased to exist more than 40 years ago. Nixon drove a stake through its heart by shutting down the Bretton Woods world monetary system, without which free markets cannot exist.But economists like yourself should know the reason for this
is money’s value is controlled not by the markets but by a federal agency, the Fed, or by other world central banks that think they alone thereby can control the economy.

Evidence, please?!

The EU sacking and replacing of the Italian and Greek governments with technocrats ,its refusal to allow the French and Dutch electorate to hold referenda on the EU constitution and forcing the Irish people to hold a second referendum on the same treaty because the first one went against them.That's fascism.

Really?The fact that you never post yourself but instead you stalk certain posters like a voyeur trying to make cheap points under various IDs says a lot about you.How much do they pay you?
(Leonidas, 4 November 2014 13:50)

haha, "you never post yourself" is in contrast with "you stalk certain posters like a voyeur trying to make cheap points". You have to decide which one is true as you are being contradictory with yourself :)
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The blatant lie and ignorance is a trait of the googled educated Albanians like yourself .You got the name of the Greek finance minister from the internet and then try to turn ignorance to your advantage.
(Leonidas, 4 November 2014 13:50)

Of course I did that. After you said "What a nonsense. The Greek minister of finance has been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people" I got the name of the Greek finance minister from www.minfin.gr and then checked www.hellenicparliament.gr and that revealed that you were blatantly lying. What did you want me to do? Not to check the facts but fabricate them from my imagination like you do?!

The EU sacking and replacing of the Italian and Greek governments with technocrats ,its refusal to allow the French and Dutch electorate to hold referenda on the EU constitution and forcing the Irish people to hold a second referendum on the same treaty because the first one went against them.
(Leonidas, 4 November 2014 13:50)

That's not evidence, that is your opinion, which frankly are very dubious now that you are a certified liar without a shadow of a doubt! Evidence means facts, documents, etc., not your opinions.

you never post yourself" is in contrast with "you stalk certain posters like a voyeur trying to make cheap points".

They are both true statements regarding yourself.You're not a poster in the true sense but a stalker or a voyeur.

Of course I did that.

I knew you did and do you know what they say?Half knowledge is worse than ignorance.

That's not evidence, that is your opinion,

One would rather tend to believe the words of the Italian and Greek former prime ministers than those of an Albanian peeping tom.Enjoy your voyeurism!

They are both true statements regarding yourself.You're not a poster in the true sense but a stalker or a voyeur.
(Leonidas, 5 November 2014 20:15)

Why? Because you say so?! You may repeat as many times as you want that 1+1=3, but it does not make it true :) If I never post myself, I can't make cheap points. Or in order to make cheap points I have to post. In either case your statement is contradictory lol
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I knew you did and do you know what they say?Half knowledge is worse than ignorance.
(Leonidas, 5 November 2014 20:15)

Of course, I never claimed I am knowledgeable about Greek politics. But I researched the facts I was not knowledgeable about and proved that you were incorrect. So, either (A) you are ignorant and fabricated the facts or (B) you are knowledgeable and chose to lie. I don't really care if you pick (A) or (B). The fact remains that you said "What a nonsense. The Greek minister of finance has been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people" when the facts showed that the Greek minister of finance has NOT been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people.
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One would rather tend to believe the words of the Italian and Greek former prime ministers than those of an Albanian peeping tom.Enjoy your voyeurism!
(Leonidas, 5 November 2014 20:15)

One would tend to believe the indisputable fact that the Greek minister of finance has NOT been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people vs your lies!

You may as well post under a different name and stalk under the name 0f icj1. Evereybody knows that Albanians are masters in disguise.

Of course, I never claimed I am knowledgeable about Greek politics. But I researched the facts

Do you know the difference between googling and research?Look it up on your dictionary.

Finally, stalkers ,like yourself,suffer from a mental disorder often schizophrenia or paranoia ,nevertheless nearly all display some delusional thought patterns and behaviour.You definitely need help.

You may as well post under a different name and stalk under the name 0f icj1. Evereybody knows that Albanians are masters in disguise.
(Leonidas, 7 November 2014 17:30)

Sure, will do that if that makes you happy lol Now back to the topic that you are making no sense. "you never post yourself" and "you stalk certain posters like a voyeur trying to make cheap points" can't both happen as they contradict each-other. You can either save half of your statement or leave it all as a non-sense statement :)
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Do you know the difference between googling and research?Look it up on your dictionary.
(Leonidas, 7 November 2014 17:30)

It's OK, you can label it whatever you want: googling, giggling or whatever, if that makes you happy. But that thing I did worked, because it revealed that your statement "What a nonsense. The Greek minister of finance has been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people" was a LIE because the Greek minister of finance has NOT been elected directly into parliament by the Greek people.
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Finally, stalkers ,like yourself,suffer from a mental disorder often schizophrenia or paranoia ,nevertheless nearly all display some delusional thought patterns and behaviour.You definitely need help.
(Leonidas, 7 November 2014 17:30)

Oh OK, you define the above as getting the facts right instead of fabricating them and lying. I don't have a problem being described as getting the facts right instead of lying.

Now back to the topic

There are no unelected EU bureucrats!

That's a big lie.I did ask you to explain whether Lady Ashton was elected but you've been either evasive or ignorant.

You got the name of the Greek finance minister from the internet and then try to turn ignorance to your advantage.
(Leonidas, 4 November 2014 13:50)

Of course I did that.But I researched the facts I was not knowledgeable about and proved that you were incorrect.
You researched sweet FA.Had you done so you would've noticed the points that I made below ie since 2011 all government ministers in Greece must be approved by the fascist EU/IMF troika which has taken over the country.

can't both happen as they contradict each-other. You can either save half of your statement or leave it all as a non-sense statement

I can give you many examples of posters on this site who post under many names and you're one of them.My suggestion to you is to try and grow a pair and engage with others in a constructive way ie avoid voyeurism.