34

Friday, 08.08.2014.

14:59

"Russia failed to divide Western world"

Polish President Bronislaw Komorowski says it is "extremely important that Russia in the current crisis over Ukraine failed to divide the Western world."

Izvor: Beta

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34 Komentari

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Leonidas

pre 9 godina

Rote 2

Again I find your argument that Alexander couldn't be Greek because he conquered the world and the population of the Greek states presumably couldn't support his army not only childish but also ignorant.If one considers that the total strength of his army was less than 50000 made up from all Greek polis/states (70 in total)and bearing in mind that during the civil war between Athens and Sparta and their allies more than 30000 soldiers were involved then it was perfectly feasible for Alexander to raise such an army.Your point again regarding coinage unearthed in many parts of the world proves that Greeks were good merchants misses the point. Ancient Greek coins unearthed with the face of Alexander on one side and his name in Greek on the other proves not only his identity but also the timing and age of the coin.As to your point that Alexander wsn't Macedonian but a Slav is laughable.It's well known that Slavs arrived on the Balkan peninsula 1000 years after the demise of Alexander. By Alexander the Great's time Macedonia was part of Hellas, it spread Greek culture and language to the world, and it is a core part of the modern Greek national identity.Also note that geneticists consider the Macedonians to be part of the same wave of settlements like Sparta, Corinth, the so-called Dorian Invasion. I would also recommend to you to visit the monasteries in mount Athos in Greece.They've been there since 700AD there is historical log to read and help you change your view.

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Leonidas

pre 9 godina

Rote

I have always liked this kind of Balkan argumentation (your argument): ‘your arguments are false, mine are right (even though not substantiated by any evidence)’. And then one goes on lecturing the others ‘ex cathedra’ of being misled by this “world-wide conspiracy” and all things he learnt through the years or seen in various museums around the world are just figments of his imagination.Your arguments in both of your postings are exactly the ideas of Fomenko who uses pseudo-science based on astronomy to reconstruct a new world history.A scientific thesis is something which can be disproved but not in the case of Fomenko because he uses pseudo-science.I did mention in both my previous postings the established methods of carbon data which is used by archaeologists to determine the age of skeletons,buildings and other items unearhed in various part of the world. Although you avoid mentionin your thoughts on carbon data ,C14 dating is very accurate for wood and used up to about 4,000 years ago and can also determine the age of its surroundings ie buildings etc.Therefore your argument about buildings in Italy not being more that 500 years old doesn't hold water.With regard to Alexander and Macedonians there are too numerous to count documents and inscriptions from ancient times that testify to the Greekness of the Macedonians, most of them from the Macedonians themselves. Even the Persians identified them as Greeks as recorded in ancient documents.

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rote

pre 9 godina

Leonidas – 2

• If I were you I would escape mentioning the never existed Papas. If you enter the Russian and the English verions of Wikipedia (РИМСКИЕ ПАПЫ) you will enjoy it. Because their portraits differ in 20% cases. And what is more exiting in the Russian version 30-35% of the Papas look like twins. Remember they all were elected and they were born from different parents in different countries and in different times. Yet they look like twins. As if someone painted them with small difference. Pay attention to their baldness type – it is known as JEWISH.
• In Rome there are no buildings older than 500-600 years. And the famous 3 wolves according to the specialist Italians were made in the 17-th century. Because they are monolith and it’s rather a new technology.
• But let us not touch Italy and never existed Latin language the worst Roman\ Italian warriors in the history ect. Let’s be back to Alexander and the ancient Greece. I don’t mind to take lessons too. But you must be persuasive. When I was writing the post that irritated you someone entered my room and asked what I was doing. I said an idiotic thing PERSUADING A GREEK THAT ALEXANDER WAS A SLAV AND THERE WAS NO ANCIENT GREECE. He decides I was joking.

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rote

pre 9 godina

Leonidas

„Obviously,you mix up ...”

• It’s not true. I was just answering if Fomenko was my only source and it's what I dislike in Arn’s posts. It was him who mixed everything first while I said we cannot talk about everything at a time.
• So let’s be reasonable and talk about 1-2 things but not more. Let it be Alexander and the ancient Greece. I believe here you have great advantage if we mean the traditional history.
• I never doubted that the Greek played a great role in the history of mankind but I also think most things happened in the medium ages but not “ancient” and some events had never took place at all. I think that in a big degree the history was written in Europe exactly in Italy while the Greeks were used to prove the artificial history of Europe.
• Events described in the Holy Writ had happened mostly in Byzantine and Hazaria and partly Russia but not in Al Quds village of the poor Arabs.
• Today the Greeks make 0,32% of the mankind. And even if we suppose that long ago your share was much bigger it is still doubtful that you could seize half the world. The Greek coins you are talking were found elsewhere in Russia , Caucasus , China … But it only proves that Greeks were good masters and good merchants.
• I don’t mean Alexander was a Macedonian. But I think that he could be only a Slav. Because nobody else could seize the continent. At that times there were no nations I think. There could be only tribe unions both in the Greek and the Slav worlds.

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Arn.Sweden.

pre 9 godina

(Leonidas, 13 August 2014 21:22)

Leonidas has som wery strong points here and,
falsification of History,
is wery common in Comunist countrys,
and Rote is a victim of that for sure as I think.

Arn.Sweden.

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Leonidas

pre 9 godina

Rote

Obviously,you mix up Fomenko,Skythians, Levashov and ancient armaments and you produce an (un-historical) cocktail that history as we know it is fake. I have no doubts that history hasn’t been written as it happened but to conclude is the result of some world- wide conspiracy surpasses even all the communist-era myths.Take armaments for example.If you look at ancient Greek ,Roman and Byzantine armaments shown on various inscriptions you’ll see that they're all continuations of each other.How do you account the radiocarbon evidence and dendrology that dates artifacts from Rome and the Middle Ages to the accepted timetable? How do you account for the chronological continuity of the Roman Catholic popes, or the well-dated series of Church Councils and Papal Bulls ? How do you account for archaeology around the world? What about ancient Greek and Roman coinage that’s being unearthed in places as far as Britain and Afganistan? Are they part of the “conspiracy”? If you really want to find whether Alexander was Russian(I've never heard this before) you may look up the ancient Macedonian words preserved in Hesychius's lexicon (5th c. AD but data taken from previous Greek lexicographers) or perhaps read the recently found curse tablet from the ancient Macedonian capital of Pella (there is a special entry on this in Wikipedia too).Finally, no serious historian would ever claim that modern peoples are direct descendants of ancient peoples, at least in terms of DNA.

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Arn.Sweden.

pre 9 godina

To Rote - continuation -

The Prussians -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Prussians

From -

https://www.google.se/search?q=Pruzzerna&rlz=1C1CHMO_svSE576SE576&oq=Pruzzerna&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l2j5.6332j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=Pruzzen&spell=1

The Baltic Tribes are genetically most near the Estonians and Finns,
which are peoples of Turkish origin.

Georgia as a state and the Georgians as a People is not the same thing.

Now - you have to educate yourself herafter.

Arn.Sweden.

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Arn.Sweden.

pre 9 godina

To Rote !.

Again - 1.Mos.10. vers -

3 And the sons of Gomer: Ashkenaz and Riphath and Togarmah

Gomer is the Forefather of all German Peoples.
Ashkenas(The Gotians)-Riphath(The Hetitt/Kelts)-Togarma(Armenians/the Slavs).
Akenas is the Jewish name of Todays Germany.

The Hetttitte Empire was kalled GAMIR by the Armenians(Togarma).
From this we have -
The Gomerians-Kimerians-Simerians-Simbrians.
Compere the Gaelic/Keltic name of Wales in GB - Gumru or Cumru.

Ashkenas compere - Osetia and Grusia = Osgrusia.

The Shytians was called Skolots by the Greecs,
by the Persians Asgouzei.
Skytia gave the name to - Scandinavia.

From Grusia we have - gusia - gouzei - goetzia - gotia.

Compere - ASGARD -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asgard

And Yes -
The Sarmatians drove the Scytians westward the wole way to former Westgermany

In the 15th Century B.C., Grusia/Georgia was called KASKA.
of kause from Aske(nas)
Some of them emigrated eastwars as the KASSI(from which Asia has got its name)

They founded the Towns Taskent - Kasgar - and the country of Kashmir.
they was called Kesi by the Hindus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaskians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qashqai_people

Continue -

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rote

pre 9 godina

Leonidas

You're of course referring to the ideas advocated by the well known charlatan Fomenko.

• Not only him but there are several other scientists have to prove that the current ancient and medium age histories are mostly fake. What I dislike in Fomenko is that they try to translate everything from old Russian. Meanwhile the Scythians and other nations that were parts of the Horde also left their signs in the history and geography.
• There are scientists who follow the history of the coins and they say similar things.
• Also you must have heard about the late Levashov who is though strange man but very often sounds rather persuasive.
• Some prove that military uniform exposed in the museums. They tell when one technologies were first invented and asks how could the artifacts belong to an epoch 1000 before ect. Also if you have a look at the armaments of the ancient Rome and Greece you will find no progress through the centuries.
• I believe the man known as Alexander the Great could belong only to a very big nation. It means he was a Slav. Any time in the history the Greeks or Mongolians or ‘Romans” had never composed even 0,5% of the population of the world.
• How could anyone make formulas out of the Greek figures ? It is absurd ! LXVXXVIII ect … Yet we have a long list of Greek Mathematics that I believe never existed.
• I believe our Y-DNA (happlogroups) will help us make progress. Though greater part of the information is lost forever.

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rote

pre 9 godina

Arn.Sweden.

Comment - Rome was founded year 753B.C. by the Etruskians, a people of Greece origin.

• If so then why their letters are translated so easily from old Russian ?
• There’s not a single evidence you can show about the Rome’s birthday. Just try to and we shall laugh together.

The Prussians are of Turkish Origin as are all people in the Baltic.

• Please find a source proving anything of that. I wonder when the Turks were formed as a nation and when and where did they crossed the Germans or invaded there lands. Words like Prussia or Barbarossa have Russian origin. And the haplogroups of the Prussians prove it. They are R1a while in the Ruhr region they R1b. these are sister Arian haplogroups anyway.

Comment - The Skytians originating from Grusia, are The Gotians of Northern Europe, driven westward by the Sarmatians/Serbians/Slavs,

• I can improve 1-2 mistakes but when nothing is correct I am at a loss what to start with … Scythians were many times stronger than Georgia. They could put Georgia in any pocket. But the problem was that Georgia did not exist during the Scythians or their derivatives like Alans , Sarmatians , Goths ect. Georgia as a state and Georgians as a nation were established in 1701 by the Russian Tsar during Georgievsky Traktat. When some 20 Kartli tribes were united under Imeretian Irakli II. … You may not believe it but a Georgian interrupted me for 5 minutes … Unfortunately he cannot speak English.

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Arn.Sweden.

pre 9 godina

To Rote - I Quote -

Arn.

Your level of knowledge we Russians call as СЛЫШАЛ ЗВОН , ДА НЕ ЗНАЮ ГДЕ ОН. Nothing in your post is correct. Genetically Russians and Ukrainians are one people coz they have same haplogoups. One can discuss who were first but seeking any difference is an idiotic business. Also about Dnieper , Don , Danube , Dniester , London , Catalonia and many other geographical names they all have Scythian (Sarmatian , Alanian) origin but not Slavic.

Comment - The Skytians originating from Grusia,
are The Gotians of Northern Europe,
driven westward by the Sarmatians/Serbians/Slavs,

Further -

Slavs are not Germans but some 16% of Germans mostly in Prussia have Slavic DNA.

Comment - The Prussians are of Turkish Origin as are all people in the Baltic.


Finally for your erudition you should know that all nations in the current meaning started to form in the 16-17-th centuries. Some are still formed. 99% of what we know from the history of the world before 1600 is a lie. There were no ancient Rome (at least in Italy) and nobody ever spoke Latin language , no ancient Greece ( middleages) ect.
(rote, 11 August 2014 08:09)

Comment - Rome was founded year 753B.C. by the Etruskians,
a people of Greece origin.

However - Italy and the Etruskians was overtaken by the Roman/Latin People from Troj/Tracia.

Your History knowledge is all Rubbish.

Arn.Sweden.

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Leonidas

pre 9 godina

There were no ancient Rome (at least in Italy) and nobody ever spoke Latin language , no ancient Greece ( middleages) ect.
(rote, 11 August 2014 08:09)

You're of course referring to the ideas advocated by the well known charlatan Fomenko.All his theory depends on the assumption that history as we know it is just a chronicle of various kings on one hand and the algebraic equation relationship with their reigns on the other.He rejects the established scientific methods of examining carbon data and dendrology which establish the time of events and instead he uses astronomy(Ptolemy's astronomical records) to conclude that history as we know it a fake.He then proceeds to tell the world the Roman Empire(Russian empire) actually began in the 9th century, and its Eastern half, condescendingly called Byzantine, was the true model for all history.To cut the long story short he concludes that British history is really Byzantine history, that the English kings were British renamings of the Byzantine Emperors, and that all of this history was fabricated when refugees from the fallen Byzantine capital "returned" to England in 1453 and brought their history to the barbarian island.

Fomenko's reasons behind his theories are nothing more than an attempt to bolster the prestige of the formerly great Russian state, and to claim that Russia was in fact the source of world glory falsely attributed to the ancient civilisations of China,Egypt,Greece and Rome.

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Going over the deep end, are we?

pre 9 godina

There were no ancient Rome (at least in Italy) and nobody ever spoke Latin language , no ancient Greece ( middleages) ect.
(rote, 11 August 2014 08:09)
Interesting what Russian history teaches, was Jesus also a Russian and not a Jew??
No one spoke Latin, you got to love it!

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icj1

pre 9 godina

Everything is like during WW2 when about 500 000 of Poles joined the fascists and fought the Russians in Donbass , in Kursk ect. Previous Polish legions ( about 80 000 ) had come here on Napoleon’s horse’s ass. Also as a part of the West … Most of them stayed in Russia .. as it happens ...
(rote, 9 August 2014 22:15)

The world has moved on to 2014, but you are more welcome to stay in the 1940's.... and it was 500,012 Poles btw not 500,000 :)

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rote

pre 9 godina

Arn.

Your level of knowledge we Russians call as СЛЫШАЛ ЗВОН , ДА НЕ ЗНАЮ ГДЕ ОН. Nothing in your post is correct. Genetically Russians and Ukrainians are one people coz they have same haplogoups. One can discuss who were first but seeking any difference is an idiotic business. Also about Dnieper , Don , Danube , Dniester , London , Catalonia and many other geographical names they all have Scythian (Sarmatian , Alanian) origin but not Slavic. Slavs are not Germans but some 16% of Germans mostly in Prussia have Slavic DNA. Finally for your erudition you should know that all nations in the current meaning started to form in the 16-17-th centuries. Some are still formed. 99% of what we know from the history of the world before 1600 is a lie. There were no ancient Rome (at least in Italy) and nobody ever spoke Latin language , no ancient Greece ( middleages) ect.

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Leonidas

pre 9 godina

YWith regards to sanctions is pretty evident that Putin is holding back hep, he is playing the game of proudly alone!

Putin has outsmarted the West. He has achieved his main objective which was Crimea - allowing Russia unbridled access to its southern ports. He has done this without even playing his main bargaining chip - the supply of gas to Western Europe.Meanwhile the Western leaders have blustered impotently. The EC, as always, has proved totally ineffective, out of touch, greedy and lack basic common sense.I would say three point to Putin.

Other sources like the champions of journalism and objectivity RT News and Xinhua?

For Journalism and objectivity Fox news come top.They've just announced they will publish the results from the MH17 black boxes (fancy that).

Great advice... Just a small detail I'm curious about. Where will Russia get the cash from if it turns the energy taps off?!
(icj1, 9 August 2014 22:56)

They would probably tap the Albanian money market.Even a comic reader like yourself should know that Russian exports to Eu are less that 30% of
total exports.

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rote

pre 9 godina

yamgourchi

С дуба рухнул ? Что за пургу ты здесь несешь ? Учи матчасть и излагай понятно. All the rest was good enough. If you are to advocate Russia and you’re not sure just as me.


Arn.Sweden.

Please stop it ! No need to write about things you have no idea …



Rote

МОЛОДЕЦ !



icj1

ALL-ALBANIAN DAY OUT IN THE MADHOUSES.

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Arn.Sweden.

pre 9 godina

To -(yamgourchi, 9 August 2014 13:19)

Mesheck vers - 2,. -

Genesis 10 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

10 Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah: Shem, Ham, and Japheth; and unto them were sons born after the flood.
2 The sons of Japheth: Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

Mesech, Meshech
(drawing out ), a son of Japhet, ( Genesis 10:2 ; 1 Chronicles 1:5 ) and the progenitor of a race frequently noticed in Scripture in connection with Tubal, Magog and other northern nations. They appear as allies of God, ( Ezekiel 38:2 Ezekiel 38:3 ; 39:1 ) and as supplying the Tyrians with copper and slaves. ( Ezekiel 27:13 ) In ( Psalms 120:5 ) they are noticed as one of the remotest and at the same time rudest nations of the world. Both the name and the associations are in favor of the identification of Meshech with the Moschi , a people on the borders of Colchis and Armenia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mashhad

When the Indoeuropeans left Arrarat,
the Moskovians moved eastward to eastern Iran and Turkmenistan,
and then North to todayd Russia.

Arn.Sweden.

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rote

pre 9 godina

… failed to divide the Western world …

A mosquito on a horse’s ass too believes to be a buffalo soldier … Same with Poland. Since when Poland became a part of the West ? Being a colony or a Sykorski kind sucker does not mean being a part. Promising to marry does not mean to merry … I think Komorowski , Tusk and Sykorski will have to respond for their provocative role in the latest history of Europe. Especially what Ukraine is concerned where hundreds of Poles are killed in Donbass and some are captured. Everything is like during WW2 when about 500 000 of Poles joined the fascists and fought the Russians in Donbass , in Kursk ect. Previous Polish legions ( about 80 000 ) had come here on Napoleon’s horse’s ass. Also as a part of the West … Most of them stayed in Russia .. as it happens ...

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icj1

pre 9 godina

Nonsense.Putin is not playing any dangerous game.He is playing the game of defending the interests of his people and of his country.He is playing the game of being a good leader and all opinion polls show the Russian people support him overwhelmingly.
(Leonidas, 8 August 2014 16:49)

Yep, he is playing the game of proudly alone!
----------

On the other hand some very dangerous games are being played by the West.The lies and distortions by the Western media on Ukraine are destroying any credibility they have with more and more people who are turning to other sources.
(Leonidas, 8 August 2014 16:49)

Other sources like the champions of journalism and objectivity RT News and Xinhua?
----------

With regards to sanctions is pretty evident that Putin is holding back his killer shots( iam surprised he's still on the defensive)and instead he is opting for tit for tat options especially against small countries which count for nothing within the EU.Western aggressive moves against Russia will not stop until Russia gives in on Ukraine this is why I think it's imperative for Putin to use all the wild cards he holds ( turn the energy taps off to EU El Nino will arrive soon),such a move will probably bring the EU bureaucrats into their senses and tell Washington good-bye and come to terms with Russia.
(Leonidas, 8 August 2014 16:49)

Great advice... Just a small detail I'm curious about. Where will Russia get the cash from if it turns the energy taps off?!

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Dragan

pre 9 godina

If you want to be America's b*%&, pay the price!!
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2014/08/you-wanna-be-uncle-sams-bitch-pay-price.html
Cheers!!

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yamgourchi

pre 9 godina

the first russian annal said in the beginning thus,wordly:"where from began to be the land of russia..."{10-11cent.}the name-"moscovites" appeared to be long after tartar invasion in1237,i.e. after 1360,when south west russia was polonised by polish-lithvania kingdom,because of tartar devastation of such lands. there were no annalls written in so-called :ukranian:.north-eastern king andrey of bogolubovo-vladimir had been from kiev,when moscow was a tiny village (1170-80)...futhermore:russian words exceptserbian n bulgarian are very similar in their sense n pronunciations:bit-beat,crushit-crush,plesk-plash,ti-thee,tvoy-thy,noch-night,mama-mommy etc...

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Ozzie

pre 9 godina

It's not Russia who failed, it's the west who has failed trying divide and infringe on Russian sphere of influence and lost Crimea in the process increased the rights of the Russians in the east. Hama and Russia were in the process of signing tenement rights off the coast of gaza of course this was the reason for the war in Gaza. They are trying since 1945 to crush them. And after Russia then china perhaps little old India hiding amongst it all. America n the west are complicit in the situation in Iraq Syria Egypt Morocco. They have sewed the seeds of destruction,

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Arn.Sweden.

pre 9 godina

TO - (yamgourchi, 8 August 2014 19:00).

Dnepr is a slavic Name not a Moskovian(Russian).
The Ukrainians are Slavs not Moskovians(Russians).

The Slavs is a German People stemming From Armenia,-
that is - the Slavs are of Armenian origin.

The Moskovites(Russians)are another Indoeuropean people.

Arn.Sweden.

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yamgourchi

pre 9 godina

except polish example.russia has never divided any state or nation.that is why polish pimper blabbers rubbish .remorceless "pes,ya chusch"...

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yamgourchi

pre 9 godina

once there were interventions on"malorossia" in span on 14-18th cent.,by tartars,polish,sweden...never by russia!it was small area then,running nearby the left bank of the dnepro-river.without any accsess to sea banks!and the annals scriptures of this historical period was written in russian !not in so-called "ukranian"!which never existed...until our crazy time being...

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Arn.Sweden.

pre 9 godina

The Polish President errs !.

It will be the moves of Germany with Her former allies,
Hungary-Austria-Croatia,
who will divide The EU and the US from eachother.

Poland will soon se the Ugly face of Germany again.

There is some god points by the Talkbackers belowe also.

Arn.Sweden.

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EU Dude

pre 9 godina

What a load of rubbish coming from Poland. The EU is fundametally divided which is why their sanctions are barely more than symbolic.

Quite a number of EU ministers have openly stated that they would support sanctions that hurt Russia but don't hurt their own economies.

These are the EU morons who are fighting for their own domestic crediblity at home and thinking of the next elections.

Brussels tried to play big boy and failed epically. Now they squeal about Russian sanctions being 'political', yet in the last few month we've heared EU Energy Commissioner Gunter Oettinger openly threaten the cancellation of South Stream under the pretence it doesn't conform to EU rules. It's like these people have forgotten that everything they say is archived and ready for instant recall. They just end up looking even bigger fools.

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Mirel from Albania

pre 9 godina

.. Their Russophobia is really tiresome and unhelpful. ..(Jeff, 8 August 2014 16:13)

You blame Poles for being Russophobe?
Why dont u blame Moskow for making all Eeatsern countries (except Serbia),being russophobe?
Is easy to blame the victim and not the predator.

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Jeff

pre 9 godina

The poles have been encouraging this mess from the start. They should take responsibility. Their Russophobia is really tiresome and unhelpful. And they are as aggressive towards Ukraine as anyone. It is the poles who need to be brought down a peg or two and leave Ukraine alone as much as Russia.

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marKo

pre 9 godina

This gentleman is wrong on two points

1, Russia never tried to divide the west, but the same can not be said the other way around.

2, Poland is not the west,and the west does not care about Poles. They can all go hungry or lose their farms. The West cares about being the wealthest and strongest and Poland is a buffer area because they allow themselves to be.

Poland is a great country, it could be a bridge between east and west, but as long as its leaders chose sides in other peoples drama, the polish people will gain nothing and lose much

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Leonidas

pre 9 godina

Russia has always had a tendency to put European and American policies against each other, to treat some countries better, and some worse.

Nonsense.Putin is not playing any dangerous game.He is playing the game of defending the interests of his people and of his country.He is playing the game of being a good leader and all opinion polls show the Russian people support him overwhelmingly.On the other hand some very dangerous games are being played by the West.The lies and distortions by the Western media on Ukraine are destroying any credibility they have with more and more people who are turning to other sources.With regards to sanctions is pretty evident that Putin is holding back his killer shots( iam surprised he's still on the defensive)and instead he is opting for tit for tat options especially against small countries which count for nothing within the EU.Western aggressive moves against Russia will not stop until Russia gives in on Ukraine this is why I think it's imperative for Putin to use all the wild cards he holds ( turn the energy taps off to EU El Nino will arrive soon),such a move will probably bring the EU bureaucrats into their senses and tell Washington good-bye and come to terms with Russia.

Preporučujem 19 Ne preporučujem 12
Jeff

pre 9 godina

The poles have been encouraging this mess from the start. They should take responsibility. Their Russophobia is really tiresome and unhelpful. And they are as aggressive towards Ukraine as anyone. It is the poles who need to be brought down a peg or two and leave Ukraine alone as much as Russia.

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Leonidas

pre 9 godina

Russia has always had a tendency to put European and American policies against each other, to treat some countries better, and some worse.

Nonsense.Putin is not playing any dangerous game.He is playing the game of defending the interests of his people and of his country.He is playing the game of being a good leader and all opinion polls show the Russian people support him overwhelmingly.On the other hand some very dangerous games are being played by the West.The lies and distortions by the Western media on Ukraine are destroying any credibility they have with more and more people who are turning to other sources.With regards to sanctions is pretty evident that Putin is holding back his killer shots( iam surprised he's still on the defensive)and instead he is opting for tit for tat options especially against small countries which count for nothing within the EU.Western aggressive moves against Russia will not stop until Russia gives in on Ukraine this is why I think it's imperative for Putin to use all the wild cards he holds ( turn the energy taps off to EU El Nino will arrive soon),such a move will probably bring the EU bureaucrats into their senses and tell Washington good-bye and come to terms with Russia.

Preporučujem 19 Ne preporučujem 12
marKo

pre 9 godina

This gentleman is wrong on two points

1, Russia never tried to divide the west, but the same can not be said the other way around.

2, Poland is not the west,and the west does not care about Poles. They can all go hungry or lose their farms. The West cares about being the wealthest and strongest and Poland is a buffer area because they allow themselves to be.

Poland is a great country, it could be a bridge between east and west, but as long as its leaders chose sides in other peoples drama, the polish people will gain nothing and lose much

Preporučujem 17 Ne preporučujem 14
Mirel from Albania

pre 9 godina

.. Their Russophobia is really tiresome and unhelpful. ..(Jeff, 8 August 2014 16:13)

You blame Poles for being Russophobe?
Why dont u blame Moskow for making all Eeatsern countries (except Serbia),being russophobe?
Is easy to blame the victim and not the predator.

Preporučujem 13 Ne preporučujem 23
EU Dude

pre 9 godina

What a load of rubbish coming from Poland. The EU is fundametally divided which is why their sanctions are barely more than symbolic.

Quite a number of EU ministers have openly stated that they would support sanctions that hurt Russia but don't hurt their own economies.

These are the EU morons who are fighting for their own domestic crediblity at home and thinking of the next elections.

Brussels tried to play big boy and failed epically. Now they squeal about Russian sanctions being 'political', yet in the last few month we've heared EU Energy Commissioner Gunter Oettinger openly threaten the cancellation of South Stream under the pretence it doesn't conform to EU rules. It's like these people have forgotten that everything they say is archived and ready for instant recall. They just end up looking even bigger fools.

Preporučujem 10 Ne preporučujem 9
Arn.Sweden.

pre 9 godina

The Polish President errs !.

It will be the moves of Germany with Her former allies,
Hungary-Austria-Croatia,
who will divide The EU and the US from eachother.

Poland will soon se the Ugly face of Germany again.

There is some god points by the Talkbackers belowe also.

Arn.Sweden.

Preporučujem 9 Ne preporučujem 9
Dragan

pre 9 godina

If you want to be America's b*%&, pay the price!!
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2014/08/you-wanna-be-uncle-sams-bitch-pay-price.html
Cheers!!

Preporučujem 9 Ne preporučujem 3
Going over the deep end, are we?

pre 9 godina

There were no ancient Rome (at least in Italy) and nobody ever spoke Latin language , no ancient Greece ( middleages) ect.
(rote, 11 August 2014 08:09)
Interesting what Russian history teaches, was Jesus also a Russian and not a Jew??
No one spoke Latin, you got to love it!

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Leonidas

pre 9 godina

There were no ancient Rome (at least in Italy) and nobody ever spoke Latin language , no ancient Greece ( middleages) ect.
(rote, 11 August 2014 08:09)

You're of course referring to the ideas advocated by the well known charlatan Fomenko.All his theory depends on the assumption that history as we know it is just a chronicle of various kings on one hand and the algebraic equation relationship with their reigns on the other.He rejects the established scientific methods of examining carbon data and dendrology which establish the time of events and instead he uses astronomy(Ptolemy's astronomical records) to conclude that history as we know it a fake.He then proceeds to tell the world the Roman Empire(Russian empire) actually began in the 9th century, and its Eastern half, condescendingly called Byzantine, was the true model for all history.To cut the long story short he concludes that British history is really Byzantine history, that the English kings were British renamings of the Byzantine Emperors, and that all of this history was fabricated when refugees from the fallen Byzantine capital "returned" to England in 1453 and brought their history to the barbarian island.

Fomenko's reasons behind his theories are nothing more than an attempt to bolster the prestige of the formerly great Russian state, and to claim that Russia was in fact the source of world glory falsely attributed to the ancient civilisations of China,Egypt,Greece and Rome.

Preporučujem 9 Ne preporučujem 0
yamgourchi

pre 9 godina

once there were interventions on"malorossia" in span on 14-18th cent.,by tartars,polish,sweden...never by russia!it was small area then,running nearby the left bank of the dnepro-river.without any accsess to sea banks!and the annals scriptures of this historical period was written in russian !not in so-called "ukranian"!which never existed...until our crazy time being...

Preporučujem 8 Ne preporučujem 5
yamgourchi

pre 9 godina

except polish example.russia has never divided any state or nation.that is why polish pimper blabbers rubbish .remorceless "pes,ya chusch"...

Preporučujem 7 Ne preporučujem 5
rote

pre 9 godina

… failed to divide the Western world …

A mosquito on a horse’s ass too believes to be a buffalo soldier … Same with Poland. Since when Poland became a part of the West ? Being a colony or a Sykorski kind sucker does not mean being a part. Promising to marry does not mean to merry … I think Komorowski , Tusk and Sykorski will have to respond for their provocative role in the latest history of Europe. Especially what Ukraine is concerned where hundreds of Poles are killed in Donbass and some are captured. Everything is like during WW2 when about 500 000 of Poles joined the fascists and fought the Russians in Donbass , in Kursk ect. Previous Polish legions ( about 80 000 ) had come here on Napoleon’s horse’s ass. Also as a part of the West … Most of them stayed in Russia .. as it happens ...

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Leonidas

pre 9 godina

Rote

Obviously,you mix up Fomenko,Skythians, Levashov and ancient armaments and you produce an (un-historical) cocktail that history as we know it is fake. I have no doubts that history hasn’t been written as it happened but to conclude is the result of some world- wide conspiracy surpasses even all the communist-era myths.Take armaments for example.If you look at ancient Greek ,Roman and Byzantine armaments shown on various inscriptions you’ll see that they're all continuations of each other.How do you account the radiocarbon evidence and dendrology that dates artifacts from Rome and the Middle Ages to the accepted timetable? How do you account for the chronological continuity of the Roman Catholic popes, or the well-dated series of Church Councils and Papal Bulls ? How do you account for archaeology around the world? What about ancient Greek and Roman coinage that’s being unearthed in places as far as Britain and Afganistan? Are they part of the “conspiracy”? If you really want to find whether Alexander was Russian(I've never heard this before) you may look up the ancient Macedonian words preserved in Hesychius's lexicon (5th c. AD but data taken from previous Greek lexicographers) or perhaps read the recently found curse tablet from the ancient Macedonian capital of Pella (there is a special entry on this in Wikipedia too).Finally, no serious historian would ever claim that modern peoples are direct descendants of ancient peoples, at least in terms of DNA.

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Arn.Sweden.

pre 9 godina

(Leonidas, 13 August 2014 21:22)

Leonidas has som wery strong points here and,
falsification of History,
is wery common in Comunist countrys,
and Rote is a victim of that for sure as I think.

Arn.Sweden.

Preporučujem 5 Ne preporučujem 1
Leonidas

pre 9 godina

YWith regards to sanctions is pretty evident that Putin is holding back hep, he is playing the game of proudly alone!

Putin has outsmarted the West. He has achieved his main objective which was Crimea - allowing Russia unbridled access to its southern ports. He has done this without even playing his main bargaining chip - the supply of gas to Western Europe.Meanwhile the Western leaders have blustered impotently. The EC, as always, has proved totally ineffective, out of touch, greedy and lack basic common sense.I would say three point to Putin.

Other sources like the champions of journalism and objectivity RT News and Xinhua?

For Journalism and objectivity Fox news come top.They've just announced they will publish the results from the MH17 black boxes (fancy that).

Great advice... Just a small detail I'm curious about. Where will Russia get the cash from if it turns the energy taps off?!
(icj1, 9 August 2014 22:56)

They would probably tap the Albanian money market.Even a comic reader like yourself should know that Russian exports to Eu are less that 30% of
total exports.

Preporučujem 4 Ne preporučujem 1
icj1

pre 9 godina

Everything is like during WW2 when about 500 000 of Poles joined the fascists and fought the Russians in Donbass , in Kursk ect. Previous Polish legions ( about 80 000 ) had come here on Napoleon’s horse’s ass. Also as a part of the West … Most of them stayed in Russia .. as it happens ...
(rote, 9 August 2014 22:15)

The world has moved on to 2014, but you are more welcome to stay in the 1940's.... and it was 500,012 Poles btw not 500,000 :)

Preporučujem 4 Ne preporučujem 6
Arn.Sweden.

pre 9 godina

To Rote - I Quote -

Arn.

Your level of knowledge we Russians call as СЛЫШАЛ ЗВОН , ДА НЕ ЗНАЮ ГДЕ ОН. Nothing in your post is correct. Genetically Russians and Ukrainians are one people coz they have same haplogoups. One can discuss who were first but seeking any difference is an idiotic business. Also about Dnieper , Don , Danube , Dniester , London , Catalonia and many other geographical names they all have Scythian (Sarmatian , Alanian) origin but not Slavic.

Comment - The Skytians originating from Grusia,
are The Gotians of Northern Europe,
driven westward by the Sarmatians/Serbians/Slavs,

Further -

Slavs are not Germans but some 16% of Germans mostly in Prussia have Slavic DNA.

Comment - The Prussians are of Turkish Origin as are all people in the Baltic.


Finally for your erudition you should know that all nations in the current meaning started to form in the 16-17-th centuries. Some are still formed. 99% of what we know from the history of the world before 1600 is a lie. There were no ancient Rome (at least in Italy) and nobody ever spoke Latin language , no ancient Greece ( middleages) ect.
(rote, 11 August 2014 08:09)

Comment - Rome was founded year 753B.C. by the Etruskians,
a people of Greece origin.

However - Italy and the Etruskians was overtaken by the Roman/Latin People from Troj/Tracia.

Your History knowledge is all Rubbish.

Arn.Sweden.

Preporučujem 4 Ne preporučujem 2
Arn.Sweden.

pre 9 godina

To Rote !.

Again - 1.Mos.10. vers -

3 And the sons of Gomer: Ashkenaz and Riphath and Togarmah

Gomer is the Forefather of all German Peoples.
Ashkenas(The Gotians)-Riphath(The Hetitt/Kelts)-Togarma(Armenians/the Slavs).
Akenas is the Jewish name of Todays Germany.

The Hetttitte Empire was kalled GAMIR by the Armenians(Togarma).
From this we have -
The Gomerians-Kimerians-Simerians-Simbrians.
Compere the Gaelic/Keltic name of Wales in GB - Gumru or Cumru.

Ashkenas compere - Osetia and Grusia = Osgrusia.

The Shytians was called Skolots by the Greecs,
by the Persians Asgouzei.
Skytia gave the name to - Scandinavia.

From Grusia we have - gusia - gouzei - goetzia - gotia.

Compere - ASGARD -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asgard

And Yes -
The Sarmatians drove the Scytians westward the wole way to former Westgermany

In the 15th Century B.C., Grusia/Georgia was called KASKA.
of kause from Aske(nas)
Some of them emigrated eastwars as the KASSI(from which Asia has got its name)

They founded the Towns Taskent - Kasgar - and the country of Kashmir.
they was called Kesi by the Hindus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaskians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qashqai_people

Continue -

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Arn.Sweden.

pre 9 godina

To Rote - continuation -

The Prussians -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Prussians

From -

https://www.google.se/search?q=Pruzzerna&rlz=1C1CHMO_svSE576SE576&oq=Pruzzerna&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l2j5.6332j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=Pruzzen&spell=1

The Baltic Tribes are genetically most near the Estonians and Finns,
which are peoples of Turkish origin.

Georgia as a state and the Georgians as a People is not the same thing.

Now - you have to educate yourself herafter.

Arn.Sweden.

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Arn.Sweden.

pre 9 godina

TO - (yamgourchi, 8 August 2014 19:00).

Dnepr is a slavic Name not a Moskovian(Russian).
The Ukrainians are Slavs not Moskovians(Russians).

The Slavs is a German People stemming From Armenia,-
that is - the Slavs are of Armenian origin.

The Moskovites(Russians)are another Indoeuropean people.

Arn.Sweden.

Preporučujem 3 Ne preporučujem 9
icj1

pre 9 godina

Nonsense.Putin is not playing any dangerous game.He is playing the game of defending the interests of his people and of his country.He is playing the game of being a good leader and all opinion polls show the Russian people support him overwhelmingly.
(Leonidas, 8 August 2014 16:49)

Yep, he is playing the game of proudly alone!
----------

On the other hand some very dangerous games are being played by the West.The lies and distortions by the Western media on Ukraine are destroying any credibility they have with more and more people who are turning to other sources.
(Leonidas, 8 August 2014 16:49)

Other sources like the champions of journalism and objectivity RT News and Xinhua?
----------

With regards to sanctions is pretty evident that Putin is holding back his killer shots( iam surprised he's still on the defensive)and instead he is opting for tit for tat options especially against small countries which count for nothing within the EU.Western aggressive moves against Russia will not stop until Russia gives in on Ukraine this is why I think it's imperative for Putin to use all the wild cards he holds ( turn the energy taps off to EU El Nino will arrive soon),such a move will probably bring the EU bureaucrats into their senses and tell Washington good-bye and come to terms with Russia.
(Leonidas, 8 August 2014 16:49)

Great advice... Just a small detail I'm curious about. Where will Russia get the cash from if it turns the energy taps off?!

Preporučujem 3 Ne preporučujem 11
Ozzie

pre 9 godina

It's not Russia who failed, it's the west who has failed trying divide and infringe on Russian sphere of influence and lost Crimea in the process increased the rights of the Russians in the east. Hama and Russia were in the process of signing tenement rights off the coast of gaza of course this was the reason for the war in Gaza. They are trying since 1945 to crush them. And after Russia then china perhaps little old India hiding amongst it all. America n the west are complicit in the situation in Iraq Syria Egypt Morocco. They have sewed the seeds of destruction,

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rote

pre 9 godina

yamgourchi

С дуба рухнул ? Что за пургу ты здесь несешь ? Учи матчасть и излагай понятно. All the rest was good enough. If you are to advocate Russia and you’re not sure just as me.


Arn.Sweden.

Please stop it ! No need to write about things you have no idea …



Rote

МОЛОДЕЦ !



icj1

ALL-ALBANIAN DAY OUT IN THE MADHOUSES.

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rote

pre 9 godina

Arn.Sweden.

Comment - Rome was founded year 753B.C. by the Etruskians, a people of Greece origin.

• If so then why their letters are translated so easily from old Russian ?
• There’s not a single evidence you can show about the Rome’s birthday. Just try to and we shall laugh together.

The Prussians are of Turkish Origin as are all people in the Baltic.

• Please find a source proving anything of that. I wonder when the Turks were formed as a nation and when and where did they crossed the Germans or invaded there lands. Words like Prussia or Barbarossa have Russian origin. And the haplogroups of the Prussians prove it. They are R1a while in the Ruhr region they R1b. these are sister Arian haplogroups anyway.

Comment - The Skytians originating from Grusia, are The Gotians of Northern Europe, driven westward by the Sarmatians/Serbians/Slavs,

• I can improve 1-2 mistakes but when nothing is correct I am at a loss what to start with … Scythians were many times stronger than Georgia. They could put Georgia in any pocket. But the problem was that Georgia did not exist during the Scythians or their derivatives like Alans , Sarmatians , Goths ect. Georgia as a state and Georgians as a nation were established in 1701 by the Russian Tsar during Georgievsky Traktat. When some 20 Kartli tribes were united under Imeretian Irakli II. … You may not believe it but a Georgian interrupted me for 5 minutes … Unfortunately he cannot speak English.

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rote

pre 9 godina

Arn.

Your level of knowledge we Russians call as СЛЫШАЛ ЗВОН , ДА НЕ ЗНАЮ ГДЕ ОН. Nothing in your post is correct. Genetically Russians and Ukrainians are one people coz they have same haplogoups. One can discuss who were first but seeking any difference is an idiotic business. Also about Dnieper , Don , Danube , Dniester , London , Catalonia and many other geographical names they all have Scythian (Sarmatian , Alanian) origin but not Slavic. Slavs are not Germans but some 16% of Germans mostly in Prussia have Slavic DNA. Finally for your erudition you should know that all nations in the current meaning started to form in the 16-17-th centuries. Some are still formed. 99% of what we know from the history of the world before 1600 is a lie. There were no ancient Rome (at least in Italy) and nobody ever spoke Latin language , no ancient Greece ( middleages) ect.

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rote

pre 9 godina

Leonidas

You're of course referring to the ideas advocated by the well known charlatan Fomenko.

• Not only him but there are several other scientists have to prove that the current ancient and medium age histories are mostly fake. What I dislike in Fomenko is that they try to translate everything from old Russian. Meanwhile the Scythians and other nations that were parts of the Horde also left their signs in the history and geography.
• There are scientists who follow the history of the coins and they say similar things.
• Also you must have heard about the late Levashov who is though strange man but very often sounds rather persuasive.
• Some prove that military uniform exposed in the museums. They tell when one technologies were first invented and asks how could the artifacts belong to an epoch 1000 before ect. Also if you have a look at the armaments of the ancient Rome and Greece you will find no progress through the centuries.
• I believe the man known as Alexander the Great could belong only to a very big nation. It means he was a Slav. Any time in the history the Greeks or Mongolians or ‘Romans” had never composed even 0,5% of the population of the world.
• How could anyone make formulas out of the Greek figures ? It is absurd ! LXVXXVIII ect … Yet we have a long list of Greek Mathematics that I believe never existed.
• I believe our Y-DNA (happlogroups) will help us make progress. Though greater part of the information is lost forever.

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yamgourchi

pre 9 godina

the first russian annal said in the beginning thus,wordly:"where from began to be the land of russia..."{10-11cent.}the name-"moscovites" appeared to be long after tartar invasion in1237,i.e. after 1360,when south west russia was polonised by polish-lithvania kingdom,because of tartar devastation of such lands. there were no annalls written in so-called :ukranian:.north-eastern king andrey of bogolubovo-vladimir had been from kiev,when moscow was a tiny village (1170-80)...futhermore:russian words exceptserbian n bulgarian are very similar in their sense n pronunciations:bit-beat,crushit-crush,plesk-plash,ti-thee,tvoy-thy,noch-night,mama-mommy etc...

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Arn.Sweden.

pre 9 godina

To -(yamgourchi, 9 August 2014 13:19)

Mesheck vers - 2,. -

Genesis 10 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

10 Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah: Shem, Ham, and Japheth; and unto them were sons born after the flood.
2 The sons of Japheth: Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

Mesech, Meshech
(drawing out ), a son of Japhet, ( Genesis 10:2 ; 1 Chronicles 1:5 ) and the progenitor of a race frequently noticed in Scripture in connection with Tubal, Magog and other northern nations. They appear as allies of God, ( Ezekiel 38:2 Ezekiel 38:3 ; 39:1 ) and as supplying the Tyrians with copper and slaves. ( Ezekiel 27:13 ) In ( Psalms 120:5 ) they are noticed as one of the remotest and at the same time rudest nations of the world. Both the name and the associations are in favor of the identification of Meshech with the Moschi , a people on the borders of Colchis and Armenia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mashhad

When the Indoeuropeans left Arrarat,
the Moskovians moved eastward to eastern Iran and Turkmenistan,
and then North to todayd Russia.

Arn.Sweden.

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rote

pre 9 godina

Leonidas

„Obviously,you mix up ...”

• It’s not true. I was just answering if Fomenko was my only source and it's what I dislike in Arn’s posts. It was him who mixed everything first while I said we cannot talk about everything at a time.
• So let’s be reasonable and talk about 1-2 things but not more. Let it be Alexander and the ancient Greece. I believe here you have great advantage if we mean the traditional history.
• I never doubted that the Greek played a great role in the history of mankind but I also think most things happened in the medium ages but not “ancient” and some events had never took place at all. I think that in a big degree the history was written in Europe exactly in Italy while the Greeks were used to prove the artificial history of Europe.
• Events described in the Holy Writ had happened mostly in Byzantine and Hazaria and partly Russia but not in Al Quds village of the poor Arabs.
• Today the Greeks make 0,32% of the mankind. And even if we suppose that long ago your share was much bigger it is still doubtful that you could seize half the world. The Greek coins you are talking were found elsewhere in Russia , Caucasus , China … But it only proves that Greeks were good masters and good merchants.
• I don’t mean Alexander was a Macedonian. But I think that he could be only a Slav. Because nobody else could seize the continent. At that times there were no nations I think. There could be only tribe unions both in the Greek and the Slav worlds.

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rote

pre 9 godina

Leonidas – 2

• If I were you I would escape mentioning the never existed Papas. If you enter the Russian and the English verions of Wikipedia (РИМСКИЕ ПАПЫ) you will enjoy it. Because their portraits differ in 20% cases. And what is more exiting in the Russian version 30-35% of the Papas look like twins. Remember they all were elected and they were born from different parents in different countries and in different times. Yet they look like twins. As if someone painted them with small difference. Pay attention to their baldness type – it is known as JEWISH.
• In Rome there are no buildings older than 500-600 years. And the famous 3 wolves according to the specialist Italians were made in the 17-th century. Because they are monolith and it’s rather a new technology.
• But let us not touch Italy and never existed Latin language the worst Roman\ Italian warriors in the history ect. Let’s be back to Alexander and the ancient Greece. I don’t mind to take lessons too. But you must be persuasive. When I was writing the post that irritated you someone entered my room and asked what I was doing. I said an idiotic thing PERSUADING A GREEK THAT ALEXANDER WAS A SLAV AND THERE WAS NO ANCIENT GREECE. He decides I was joking.

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Leonidas

pre 9 godina

Rote

I have always liked this kind of Balkan argumentation (your argument): ‘your arguments are false, mine are right (even though not substantiated by any evidence)’. And then one goes on lecturing the others ‘ex cathedra’ of being misled by this “world-wide conspiracy” and all things he learnt through the years or seen in various museums around the world are just figments of his imagination.Your arguments in both of your postings are exactly the ideas of Fomenko who uses pseudo-science based on astronomy to reconstruct a new world history.A scientific thesis is something which can be disproved but not in the case of Fomenko because he uses pseudo-science.I did mention in both my previous postings the established methods of carbon data which is used by archaeologists to determine the age of skeletons,buildings and other items unearhed in various part of the world. Although you avoid mentionin your thoughts on carbon data ,C14 dating is very accurate for wood and used up to about 4,000 years ago and can also determine the age of its surroundings ie buildings etc.Therefore your argument about buildings in Italy not being more that 500 years old doesn't hold water.With regard to Alexander and Macedonians there are too numerous to count documents and inscriptions from ancient times that testify to the Greekness of the Macedonians, most of them from the Macedonians themselves. Even the Persians identified them as Greeks as recorded in ancient documents.

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Leonidas

pre 9 godina

Rote 2

Again I find your argument that Alexander couldn't be Greek because he conquered the world and the population of the Greek states presumably couldn't support his army not only childish but also ignorant.If one considers that the total strength of his army was less than 50000 made up from all Greek polis/states (70 in total)and bearing in mind that during the civil war between Athens and Sparta and their allies more than 30000 soldiers were involved then it was perfectly feasible for Alexander to raise such an army.Your point again regarding coinage unearthed in many parts of the world proves that Greeks were good merchants misses the point. Ancient Greek coins unearthed with the face of Alexander on one side and his name in Greek on the other proves not only his identity but also the timing and age of the coin.As to your point that Alexander wsn't Macedonian but a Slav is laughable.It's well known that Slavs arrived on the Balkan peninsula 1000 years after the demise of Alexander. By Alexander the Great's time Macedonia was part of Hellas, it spread Greek culture and language to the world, and it is a core part of the modern Greek national identity.Also note that geneticists consider the Macedonians to be part of the same wave of settlements like Sparta, Corinth, the so-called Dorian Invasion. I would also recommend to you to visit the monasteries in mount Athos in Greece.They've been there since 700AD there is historical log to read and help you change your view.

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Mirel from Albania

pre 9 godina

.. Their Russophobia is really tiresome and unhelpful. ..(Jeff, 8 August 2014 16:13)

You blame Poles for being Russophobe?
Why dont u blame Moskow for making all Eeatsern countries (except Serbia),being russophobe?
Is easy to blame the victim and not the predator.

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marKo

pre 9 godina

This gentleman is wrong on two points

1, Russia never tried to divide the west, but the same can not be said the other way around.

2, Poland is not the west,and the west does not care about Poles. They can all go hungry or lose their farms. The West cares about being the wealthest and strongest and Poland is a buffer area because they allow themselves to be.

Poland is a great country, it could be a bridge between east and west, but as long as its leaders chose sides in other peoples drama, the polish people will gain nothing and lose much

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Jeff

pre 9 godina

The poles have been encouraging this mess from the start. They should take responsibility. Their Russophobia is really tiresome and unhelpful. And they are as aggressive towards Ukraine as anyone. It is the poles who need to be brought down a peg or two and leave Ukraine alone as much as Russia.

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Leonidas

pre 9 godina

Russia has always had a tendency to put European and American policies against each other, to treat some countries better, and some worse.

Nonsense.Putin is not playing any dangerous game.He is playing the game of defending the interests of his people and of his country.He is playing the game of being a good leader and all opinion polls show the Russian people support him overwhelmingly.On the other hand some very dangerous games are being played by the West.The lies and distortions by the Western media on Ukraine are destroying any credibility they have with more and more people who are turning to other sources.With regards to sanctions is pretty evident that Putin is holding back his killer shots( iam surprised he's still on the defensive)and instead he is opting for tit for tat options especially against small countries which count for nothing within the EU.Western aggressive moves against Russia will not stop until Russia gives in on Ukraine this is why I think it's imperative for Putin to use all the wild cards he holds ( turn the energy taps off to EU El Nino will arrive soon),such a move will probably bring the EU bureaucrats into their senses and tell Washington good-bye and come to terms with Russia.

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icj1

pre 9 godina

Nonsense.Putin is not playing any dangerous game.He is playing the game of defending the interests of his people and of his country.He is playing the game of being a good leader and all opinion polls show the Russian people support him overwhelmingly.
(Leonidas, 8 August 2014 16:49)

Yep, he is playing the game of proudly alone!
----------

On the other hand some very dangerous games are being played by the West.The lies and distortions by the Western media on Ukraine are destroying any credibility they have with more and more people who are turning to other sources.
(Leonidas, 8 August 2014 16:49)

Other sources like the champions of journalism and objectivity RT News and Xinhua?
----------

With regards to sanctions is pretty evident that Putin is holding back his killer shots( iam surprised he's still on the defensive)and instead he is opting for tit for tat options especially against small countries which count for nothing within the EU.Western aggressive moves against Russia will not stop until Russia gives in on Ukraine this is why I think it's imperative for Putin to use all the wild cards he holds ( turn the energy taps off to EU El Nino will arrive soon),such a move will probably bring the EU bureaucrats into their senses and tell Washington good-bye and come to terms with Russia.
(Leonidas, 8 August 2014 16:49)

Great advice... Just a small detail I'm curious about. Where will Russia get the cash from if it turns the energy taps off?!

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EU Dude

pre 9 godina

What a load of rubbish coming from Poland. The EU is fundametally divided which is why their sanctions are barely more than symbolic.

Quite a number of EU ministers have openly stated that they would support sanctions that hurt Russia but don't hurt their own economies.

These are the EU morons who are fighting for their own domestic crediblity at home and thinking of the next elections.

Brussels tried to play big boy and failed epically. Now they squeal about Russian sanctions being 'political', yet in the last few month we've heared EU Energy Commissioner Gunter Oettinger openly threaten the cancellation of South Stream under the pretence it doesn't conform to EU rules. It's like these people have forgotten that everything they say is archived and ready for instant recall. They just end up looking even bigger fools.

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Arn.Sweden.

pre 9 godina

The Polish President errs !.

It will be the moves of Germany with Her former allies,
Hungary-Austria-Croatia,
who will divide The EU and the US from eachother.

Poland will soon se the Ugly face of Germany again.

There is some god points by the Talkbackers belowe also.

Arn.Sweden.

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Arn.Sweden.

pre 9 godina

TO - (yamgourchi, 8 August 2014 19:00).

Dnepr is a slavic Name not a Moskovian(Russian).
The Ukrainians are Slavs not Moskovians(Russians).

The Slavs is a German People stemming From Armenia,-
that is - the Slavs are of Armenian origin.

The Moskovites(Russians)are another Indoeuropean people.

Arn.Sweden.

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rote

pre 9 godina

Arn.

Your level of knowledge we Russians call as СЛЫШАЛ ЗВОН , ДА НЕ ЗНАЮ ГДЕ ОН. Nothing in your post is correct. Genetically Russians and Ukrainians are one people coz they have same haplogoups. One can discuss who were first but seeking any difference is an idiotic business. Also about Dnieper , Don , Danube , Dniester , London , Catalonia and many other geographical names they all have Scythian (Sarmatian , Alanian) origin but not Slavic. Slavs are not Germans but some 16% of Germans mostly in Prussia have Slavic DNA. Finally for your erudition you should know that all nations in the current meaning started to form in the 16-17-th centuries. Some are still formed. 99% of what we know from the history of the world before 1600 is a lie. There were no ancient Rome (at least in Italy) and nobody ever spoke Latin language , no ancient Greece ( middleages) ect.

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icj1

pre 9 godina

Everything is like during WW2 when about 500 000 of Poles joined the fascists and fought the Russians in Donbass , in Kursk ect. Previous Polish legions ( about 80 000 ) had come here on Napoleon’s horse’s ass. Also as a part of the West … Most of them stayed in Russia .. as it happens ...
(rote, 9 August 2014 22:15)

The world has moved on to 2014, but you are more welcome to stay in the 1940's.... and it was 500,012 Poles btw not 500,000 :)

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yamgourchi

pre 9 godina

once there were interventions on"malorossia" in span on 14-18th cent.,by tartars,polish,sweden...never by russia!it was small area then,running nearby the left bank of the dnepro-river.without any accsess to sea banks!and the annals scriptures of this historical period was written in russian !not in so-called "ukranian"!which never existed...until our crazy time being...

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yamgourchi

pre 9 godina

except polish example.russia has never divided any state or nation.that is why polish pimper blabbers rubbish .remorceless "pes,ya chusch"...

Preporučujem 7 Ne preporučujem 5
rote

pre 9 godina

Leonidas

You're of course referring to the ideas advocated by the well known charlatan Fomenko.

• Not only him but there are several other scientists have to prove that the current ancient and medium age histories are mostly fake. What I dislike in Fomenko is that they try to translate everything from old Russian. Meanwhile the Scythians and other nations that were parts of the Horde also left their signs in the history and geography.
• There are scientists who follow the history of the coins and they say similar things.
• Also you must have heard about the late Levashov who is though strange man but very often sounds rather persuasive.
• Some prove that military uniform exposed in the museums. They tell when one technologies were first invented and asks how could the artifacts belong to an epoch 1000 before ect. Also if you have a look at the armaments of the ancient Rome and Greece you will find no progress through the centuries.
• I believe the man known as Alexander the Great could belong only to a very big nation. It means he was a Slav. Any time in the history the Greeks or Mongolians or ‘Romans” had never composed even 0,5% of the population of the world.
• How could anyone make formulas out of the Greek figures ? It is absurd ! LXVXXVIII ect … Yet we have a long list of Greek Mathematics that I believe never existed.
• I believe our Y-DNA (happlogroups) will help us make progress. Though greater part of the information is lost forever.

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rote

pre 9 godina

Arn.Sweden.

Comment - Rome was founded year 753B.C. by the Etruskians, a people of Greece origin.

• If so then why their letters are translated so easily from old Russian ?
• There’s not a single evidence you can show about the Rome’s birthday. Just try to and we shall laugh together.

The Prussians are of Turkish Origin as are all people in the Baltic.

• Please find a source proving anything of that. I wonder when the Turks were formed as a nation and when and where did they crossed the Germans or invaded there lands. Words like Prussia or Barbarossa have Russian origin. And the haplogroups of the Prussians prove it. They are R1a while in the Ruhr region they R1b. these are sister Arian haplogroups anyway.

Comment - The Skytians originating from Grusia, are The Gotians of Northern Europe, driven westward by the Sarmatians/Serbians/Slavs,

• I can improve 1-2 mistakes but when nothing is correct I am at a loss what to start with … Scythians were many times stronger than Georgia. They could put Georgia in any pocket. But the problem was that Georgia did not exist during the Scythians or their derivatives like Alans , Sarmatians , Goths ect. Georgia as a state and Georgians as a nation were established in 1701 by the Russian Tsar during Georgievsky Traktat. When some 20 Kartli tribes were united under Imeretian Irakli II. … You may not believe it but a Georgian interrupted me for 5 minutes … Unfortunately he cannot speak English.

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Dragan

pre 9 godina

If you want to be America's b*%&, pay the price!!
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2014/08/you-wanna-be-uncle-sams-bitch-pay-price.html
Cheers!!

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rote

pre 9 godina

… failed to divide the Western world …

A mosquito on a horse’s ass too believes to be a buffalo soldier … Same with Poland. Since when Poland became a part of the West ? Being a colony or a Sykorski kind sucker does not mean being a part. Promising to marry does not mean to merry … I think Komorowski , Tusk and Sykorski will have to respond for their provocative role in the latest history of Europe. Especially what Ukraine is concerned where hundreds of Poles are killed in Donbass and some are captured. Everything is like during WW2 when about 500 000 of Poles joined the fascists and fought the Russians in Donbass , in Kursk ect. Previous Polish legions ( about 80 000 ) had come here on Napoleon’s horse’s ass. Also as a part of the West … Most of them stayed in Russia .. as it happens ...

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yamgourchi

pre 9 godina

the first russian annal said in the beginning thus,wordly:"where from began to be the land of russia..."{10-11cent.}the name-"moscovites" appeared to be long after tartar invasion in1237,i.e. after 1360,when south west russia was polonised by polish-lithvania kingdom,because of tartar devastation of such lands. there were no annalls written in so-called :ukranian:.north-eastern king andrey of bogolubovo-vladimir had been from kiev,when moscow was a tiny village (1170-80)...futhermore:russian words exceptserbian n bulgarian are very similar in their sense n pronunciations:bit-beat,crushit-crush,plesk-plash,ti-thee,tvoy-thy,noch-night,mama-mommy etc...

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rote

pre 9 godina

yamgourchi

С дуба рухнул ? Что за пургу ты здесь несешь ? Учи матчасть и излагай понятно. All the rest was good enough. If you are to advocate Russia and you’re not sure just as me.


Arn.Sweden.

Please stop it ! No need to write about things you have no idea …



Rote

МОЛОДЕЦ !



icj1

ALL-ALBANIAN DAY OUT IN THE MADHOUSES.

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Arn.Sweden.

pre 9 godina

To Rote - I Quote -

Arn.

Your level of knowledge we Russians call as СЛЫШАЛ ЗВОН , ДА НЕ ЗНАЮ ГДЕ ОН. Nothing in your post is correct. Genetically Russians and Ukrainians are one people coz they have same haplogoups. One can discuss who were first but seeking any difference is an idiotic business. Also about Dnieper , Don , Danube , Dniester , London , Catalonia and many other geographical names they all have Scythian (Sarmatian , Alanian) origin but not Slavic.

Comment - The Skytians originating from Grusia,
are The Gotians of Northern Europe,
driven westward by the Sarmatians/Serbians/Slavs,

Further -

Slavs are not Germans but some 16% of Germans mostly in Prussia have Slavic DNA.

Comment - The Prussians are of Turkish Origin as are all people in the Baltic.


Finally for your erudition you should know that all nations in the current meaning started to form in the 16-17-th centuries. Some are still formed. 99% of what we know from the history of the world before 1600 is a lie. There were no ancient Rome (at least in Italy) and nobody ever spoke Latin language , no ancient Greece ( middleages) ect.
(rote, 11 August 2014 08:09)

Comment - Rome was founded year 753B.C. by the Etruskians,
a people of Greece origin.

However - Italy and the Etruskians was overtaken by the Roman/Latin People from Troj/Tracia.

Your History knowledge is all Rubbish.

Arn.Sweden.

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Ozzie

pre 9 godina

It's not Russia who failed, it's the west who has failed trying divide and infringe on Russian sphere of influence and lost Crimea in the process increased the rights of the Russians in the east. Hama and Russia were in the process of signing tenement rights off the coast of gaza of course this was the reason for the war in Gaza. They are trying since 1945 to crush them. And after Russia then china perhaps little old India hiding amongst it all. America n the west are complicit in the situation in Iraq Syria Egypt Morocco. They have sewed the seeds of destruction,

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Leonidas

pre 9 godina

YWith regards to sanctions is pretty evident that Putin is holding back hep, he is playing the game of proudly alone!

Putin has outsmarted the West. He has achieved his main objective which was Crimea - allowing Russia unbridled access to its southern ports. He has done this without even playing his main bargaining chip - the supply of gas to Western Europe.Meanwhile the Western leaders have blustered impotently. The EC, as always, has proved totally ineffective, out of touch, greedy and lack basic common sense.I would say three point to Putin.

Other sources like the champions of journalism and objectivity RT News and Xinhua?

For Journalism and objectivity Fox news come top.They've just announced they will publish the results from the MH17 black boxes (fancy that).

Great advice... Just a small detail I'm curious about. Where will Russia get the cash from if it turns the energy taps off?!
(icj1, 9 August 2014 22:56)

They would probably tap the Albanian money market.Even a comic reader like yourself should know that Russian exports to Eu are less that 30% of
total exports.

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Going over the deep end, are we?

pre 9 godina

There were no ancient Rome (at least in Italy) and nobody ever spoke Latin language , no ancient Greece ( middleages) ect.
(rote, 11 August 2014 08:09)
Interesting what Russian history teaches, was Jesus also a Russian and not a Jew??
No one spoke Latin, you got to love it!

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Arn.Sweden.

pre 9 godina

To Rote !.

Again - 1.Mos.10. vers -

3 And the sons of Gomer: Ashkenaz and Riphath and Togarmah

Gomer is the Forefather of all German Peoples.
Ashkenas(The Gotians)-Riphath(The Hetitt/Kelts)-Togarma(Armenians/the Slavs).
Akenas is the Jewish name of Todays Germany.

The Hetttitte Empire was kalled GAMIR by the Armenians(Togarma).
From this we have -
The Gomerians-Kimerians-Simerians-Simbrians.
Compere the Gaelic/Keltic name of Wales in GB - Gumru or Cumru.

Ashkenas compere - Osetia and Grusia = Osgrusia.

The Shytians was called Skolots by the Greecs,
by the Persians Asgouzei.
Skytia gave the name to - Scandinavia.

From Grusia we have - gusia - gouzei - goetzia - gotia.

Compere - ASGARD -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asgard

And Yes -
The Sarmatians drove the Scytians westward the wole way to former Westgermany

In the 15th Century B.C., Grusia/Georgia was called KASKA.
of kause from Aske(nas)
Some of them emigrated eastwars as the KASSI(from which Asia has got its name)

They founded the Towns Taskent - Kasgar - and the country of Kashmir.
they was called Kesi by the Hindus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaskians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qashqai_people

Continue -

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Arn.Sweden.

pre 9 godina

To Rote - continuation -

The Prussians -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Prussians

From -

https://www.google.se/search?q=Pruzzerna&rlz=1C1CHMO_svSE576SE576&oq=Pruzzerna&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l2j5.6332j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=Pruzzen&spell=1

The Baltic Tribes are genetically most near the Estonians and Finns,
which are peoples of Turkish origin.

Georgia as a state and the Georgians as a People is not the same thing.

Now - you have to educate yourself herafter.

Arn.Sweden.

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Leonidas

pre 9 godina

Rote

Obviously,you mix up Fomenko,Skythians, Levashov and ancient armaments and you produce an (un-historical) cocktail that history as we know it is fake. I have no doubts that history hasn’t been written as it happened but to conclude is the result of some world- wide conspiracy surpasses even all the communist-era myths.Take armaments for example.If you look at ancient Greek ,Roman and Byzantine armaments shown on various inscriptions you’ll see that they're all continuations of each other.How do you account the radiocarbon evidence and dendrology that dates artifacts from Rome and the Middle Ages to the accepted timetable? How do you account for the chronological continuity of the Roman Catholic popes, or the well-dated series of Church Councils and Papal Bulls ? How do you account for archaeology around the world? What about ancient Greek and Roman coinage that’s being unearthed in places as far as Britain and Afganistan? Are they part of the “conspiracy”? If you really want to find whether Alexander was Russian(I've never heard this before) you may look up the ancient Macedonian words preserved in Hesychius's lexicon (5th c. AD but data taken from previous Greek lexicographers) or perhaps read the recently found curse tablet from the ancient Macedonian capital of Pella (there is a special entry on this in Wikipedia too).Finally, no serious historian would ever claim that modern peoples are direct descendants of ancient peoples, at least in terms of DNA.

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Arn.Sweden.

pre 9 godina

(Leonidas, 13 August 2014 21:22)

Leonidas has som wery strong points here and,
falsification of History,
is wery common in Comunist countrys,
and Rote is a victim of that for sure as I think.

Arn.Sweden.

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Arn.Sweden.

pre 9 godina

To -(yamgourchi, 9 August 2014 13:19)

Mesheck vers - 2,. -

Genesis 10 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

10 Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah: Shem, Ham, and Japheth; and unto them were sons born after the flood.
2 The sons of Japheth: Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

Mesech, Meshech
(drawing out ), a son of Japhet, ( Genesis 10:2 ; 1 Chronicles 1:5 ) and the progenitor of a race frequently noticed in Scripture in connection with Tubal, Magog and other northern nations. They appear as allies of God, ( Ezekiel 38:2 Ezekiel 38:3 ; 39:1 ) and as supplying the Tyrians with copper and slaves. ( Ezekiel 27:13 ) In ( Psalms 120:5 ) they are noticed as one of the remotest and at the same time rudest nations of the world. Both the name and the associations are in favor of the identification of Meshech with the Moschi , a people on the borders of Colchis and Armenia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mashhad

When the Indoeuropeans left Arrarat,
the Moskovians moved eastward to eastern Iran and Turkmenistan,
and then North to todayd Russia.

Arn.Sweden.

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Leonidas

pre 9 godina

There were no ancient Rome (at least in Italy) and nobody ever spoke Latin language , no ancient Greece ( middleages) ect.
(rote, 11 August 2014 08:09)

You're of course referring to the ideas advocated by the well known charlatan Fomenko.All his theory depends on the assumption that history as we know it is just a chronicle of various kings on one hand and the algebraic equation relationship with their reigns on the other.He rejects the established scientific methods of examining carbon data and dendrology which establish the time of events and instead he uses astronomy(Ptolemy's astronomical records) to conclude that history as we know it a fake.He then proceeds to tell the world the Roman Empire(Russian empire) actually began in the 9th century, and its Eastern half, condescendingly called Byzantine, was the true model for all history.To cut the long story short he concludes that British history is really Byzantine history, that the English kings were British renamings of the Byzantine Emperors, and that all of this history was fabricated when refugees from the fallen Byzantine capital "returned" to England in 1453 and brought their history to the barbarian island.

Fomenko's reasons behind his theories are nothing more than an attempt to bolster the prestige of the formerly great Russian state, and to claim that Russia was in fact the source of world glory falsely attributed to the ancient civilisations of China,Egypt,Greece and Rome.

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rote

pre 9 godina

Leonidas

„Obviously,you mix up ...”

• It’s not true. I was just answering if Fomenko was my only source and it's what I dislike in Arn’s posts. It was him who mixed everything first while I said we cannot talk about everything at a time.
• So let’s be reasonable and talk about 1-2 things but not more. Let it be Alexander and the ancient Greece. I believe here you have great advantage if we mean the traditional history.
• I never doubted that the Greek played a great role in the history of mankind but I also think most things happened in the medium ages but not “ancient” and some events had never took place at all. I think that in a big degree the history was written in Europe exactly in Italy while the Greeks were used to prove the artificial history of Europe.
• Events described in the Holy Writ had happened mostly in Byzantine and Hazaria and partly Russia but not in Al Quds village of the poor Arabs.
• Today the Greeks make 0,32% of the mankind. And even if we suppose that long ago your share was much bigger it is still doubtful that you could seize half the world. The Greek coins you are talking were found elsewhere in Russia , Caucasus , China … But it only proves that Greeks were good masters and good merchants.
• I don’t mean Alexander was a Macedonian. But I think that he could be only a Slav. Because nobody else could seize the continent. At that times there were no nations I think. There could be only tribe unions both in the Greek and the Slav worlds.

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rote

pre 9 godina

Leonidas – 2

• If I were you I would escape mentioning the never existed Papas. If you enter the Russian and the English verions of Wikipedia (РИМСКИЕ ПАПЫ) you will enjoy it. Because their portraits differ in 20% cases. And what is more exiting in the Russian version 30-35% of the Papas look like twins. Remember they all were elected and they were born from different parents in different countries and in different times. Yet they look like twins. As if someone painted them with small difference. Pay attention to their baldness type – it is known as JEWISH.
• In Rome there are no buildings older than 500-600 years. And the famous 3 wolves according to the specialist Italians were made in the 17-th century. Because they are monolith and it’s rather a new technology.
• But let us not touch Italy and never existed Latin language the worst Roman\ Italian warriors in the history ect. Let’s be back to Alexander and the ancient Greece. I don’t mind to take lessons too. But you must be persuasive. When I was writing the post that irritated you someone entered my room and asked what I was doing. I said an idiotic thing PERSUADING A GREEK THAT ALEXANDER WAS A SLAV AND THERE WAS NO ANCIENT GREECE. He decides I was joking.

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Leonidas

pre 9 godina

Rote

I have always liked this kind of Balkan argumentation (your argument): ‘your arguments are false, mine are right (even though not substantiated by any evidence)’. And then one goes on lecturing the others ‘ex cathedra’ of being misled by this “world-wide conspiracy” and all things he learnt through the years or seen in various museums around the world are just figments of his imagination.Your arguments in both of your postings are exactly the ideas of Fomenko who uses pseudo-science based on astronomy to reconstruct a new world history.A scientific thesis is something which can be disproved but not in the case of Fomenko because he uses pseudo-science.I did mention in both my previous postings the established methods of carbon data which is used by archaeologists to determine the age of skeletons,buildings and other items unearhed in various part of the world. Although you avoid mentionin your thoughts on carbon data ,C14 dating is very accurate for wood and used up to about 4,000 years ago and can also determine the age of its surroundings ie buildings etc.Therefore your argument about buildings in Italy not being more that 500 years old doesn't hold water.With regard to Alexander and Macedonians there are too numerous to count documents and inscriptions from ancient times that testify to the Greekness of the Macedonians, most of them from the Macedonians themselves. Even the Persians identified them as Greeks as recorded in ancient documents.

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Leonidas

pre 9 godina

Rote 2

Again I find your argument that Alexander couldn't be Greek because he conquered the world and the population of the Greek states presumably couldn't support his army not only childish but also ignorant.If one considers that the total strength of his army was less than 50000 made up from all Greek polis/states (70 in total)and bearing in mind that during the civil war between Athens and Sparta and their allies more than 30000 soldiers were involved then it was perfectly feasible for Alexander to raise such an army.Your point again regarding coinage unearthed in many parts of the world proves that Greeks were good merchants misses the point. Ancient Greek coins unearthed with the face of Alexander on one side and his name in Greek on the other proves not only his identity but also the timing and age of the coin.As to your point that Alexander wsn't Macedonian but a Slav is laughable.It's well known that Slavs arrived on the Balkan peninsula 1000 years after the demise of Alexander. By Alexander the Great's time Macedonia was part of Hellas, it spread Greek culture and language to the world, and it is a core part of the modern Greek national identity.Also note that geneticists consider the Macedonians to be part of the same wave of settlements like Sparta, Corinth, the so-called Dorian Invasion. I would also recommend to you to visit the monasteries in mount Athos in Greece.They've been there since 700AD there is historical log to read and help you change your view.

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