U.S. publishes images claiming to show Russian attacks

(T,

This is not what you were saying few days ago. The facts show that since the break out of the crisis in Ukraine there was a continuous stream of US intelligence data backed by satellite images on the alleged movement of Russian troops and equipment on the Russia-Ukraine border yet it is puzzling that despite the vast U.S. attention concentrated on eastern Ukraine for the past half year, the alleged trucking of several large Buk anti-aircraft missile systems from Russia to Ukraine and then back to Russia hasn't shown up at all on the surveillance satellite imagery. Instead of pressing for such 'details', mainstream media simply pass on the propaganda coming from the right wing Ukrainian government ,the U.S. State Department, social media and hype the fact that the Buk system is Russian-made.After days of flip-flopping the US finally decided to present its pathetic evidence of Russian involvement. Only one image allegedly shows a blast mark in Russian territory and no actual connection to the alleged impact craters.To prove such a connection an inversion trace of the rocket must be provided which they’ve been unable to provide for obvious reasons(cannot be manufactured).On the other hand the release by Russia of satellite images showing the presence of Ukrainian Buk anti-aircraft missiles in locations from which the airliner could have been brought down and a fighter plane flying near to the malaysian plane are more credible and should be investigated thoroughly.

That’s right these are the same satellites that produced images of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq used by Colon Powell in the UN. Poor Barak Obama, he is surrounded by oceans of exceptionally stupid people – they need to use a new trick.
So far the US has spent $5 billion on Ukraine with no result while in the US infrastructure crumbles and services disappear Washington burns money like there is no tomorrow

Desperation shows in the self-justification of proRussian posters.

Time after time they squirm.

They'll believe what they want to believe.

Doesn't make it right.
(Bob, 28 July 2014 16:46)

If that is the best you can do then desperation becomes your prerogative.The same US people that presented today's evidence are the people who brought us WMDs in Iraq - don't you remember the sheer volume of fake pics and fake "evidence" we were sold back then?Bottom line is someone has got to be an idiot looking for a fix to listen to the U.S. When a nation is supporting Israel, ISIS, Egypt,Ukrainian fascists etc., why should anyone listen to their moral twaddle?

why shouldn't the rebels have access to heavy weapons? it's not a rule of war that only one side can use them.

I think people missed the point of this little presentation. The whole point was to offer some kind of proof that the Russians were somehow guilty of shooting down that airliner.

Even if the accusations made here were true, it would have absolutely nothing to do with missiles that shoot down airplanes. The evidence they offer here are strictly for artillery missiles, it has nothing to do with any kind of ground to air missiles at all.

They have no evidence the Russians or the separatists were involved at all because it was the Ukraine military that did it. That's what the available evidence indicates. This stuff is bogus to the issue.

nice fake image .America is pathetic with their lies and propaganda....nobody cares about America anymore.....

Nice picture but what does it really prove?
Depending on the angle you could swap Russian side and Ukranian side very nicely. Not saying that's what's happened here but you can do anything you like since we can't tell which is which by looking at that picture. What exactly do we see there? Maybe they should've photoshopped a nice tank or two as well for more impact.

Oh, and don't forget. The rebels claim not to have had equipment that could have taken a plane out at that height. Yet less than a week later, after the incident, they boast to have downed 2 military aircraft, including a jet fighter plane (which can fly higher and faster than any commercial airliner).
To say that Kiev or the Americans or the EU is behind all this defies logic.
(T, 30 July 2014 08:00)

You shouldn't also forget the the reports with eye witnesses, all of whom spotted a military plane' closing on the Malaysian airliner.According to these reports there were two big bangs (the first one thought to be an air-to-air missile, the second, the ground launched missile).After the first, the witness describes the plane lurching to the left, consistent with the radar tracking path released to the world press by Russia. The Russians have produced a satellite imagery which shosw that it was indeed a Ukrainian battery which brought the plane down. But, surely you've read about that in our own media, haven't you?

(Mirel from Albania, 30 July 2014 15:44)

Hey Mirel from Albania .How about you stop playing games, pull your balls out from your skirt and man up.Lets start discussing seriously the Ykrainian issue and leave all your other nonsense aside.If you cannot do that then I suggest you sit on your couch playing playstation or start reading your comic books.

Desperation shows in the self-justification of proRussian posters.

Time after time they squirm.

They'll believe what they want to believe.

Doesn't make it right.

@leonidas.
I think you misunderstood my comment. I said that the images produced by the Americans are not credible but at the same time the Russian version of events should also be taken with a 'pinch of salt', i.o.w. not credible either.
As far as I am concerned is that this 'war' stops before it escalates into something worse.
(T, 29 July 2014 09:24)

I am referring to your post of 21st of July in which you alleged that Russia was removing evidence from the crash site in order to conceal its guilt.

I don't support any of them EU US Putin etc.. You however have an agenda.
(Bob, 29 July 2014 01:43)

Indeed,you're an innocent bystander with no agenda (I wonder why most of the posters on this site are calling you a troll)whereas anyone shouting loudly from the roof the crimes your employers are committing around the world against small nations is guilty of having an agenda.My only agenda is to inform and educate people with half brain on the propaganda that is emanating from the west on various issues.In the case of Malaysian Jetliner the entire Western prostitute media was orchestrated with blame instantly being placed on Russia long in advance of any real information and evidence which leads me to believe that the downing of the airliner was a Washington operation.Why? One possible explanation is Washington is desperate to break up the growing economic and political ties between Russia and Europe.

I don't support any of them EU US Putin etc.. You however have an agenda.
(Bob, 29 July 2014 01:43)

Indeed,you're an innocent bystander with no agenda (I wonder why most of the posters on this site are calling you a troll)whereas anyone shouting loudly from the roof the crimes your employers are committing around the world against small nations is guilty of having an agenda.My only agenda is to inform and educate people with half brain on the propaganda that is emanating from the west on various issues.In the case of Malaysian Jetliner the entire Western prostitute media was orchestrated with blame instantly being placed on Russia long in advance of any real information and evidence which leads me to believe that the downing of the airliner was a Washington operation.Why? One possible explanation is Washington is desperate to break up the growing economic and political ties between Russia and Europe.

Let's face it, America has nothing, no evidence whatsoever. No different to their claims that Assad used chemical weapons against the rebels or that Iraq has weapons of mass-distraction... err, destruction.

They always seem to claim there is evidence, but they never seem to be able to present any, has anyone noticed this? They are resting their cases on their very thin credibility, nothing else.

But hey, since they CLAIM to have evidence, then this is surely good enough to impose sanctions on the Russians already, isn't it? Guilty until proven innocent?
(Peter Sudyka,

You're dead right.If one goes back to recent conflicts in Iraq,Afganistan,Libya and Syria all the evidence presented by the US was manufactured in Langley Virginia.What it's the most amazing on the recent crash of the Malaysian Airliner is that it took approximately two hours the Western media(brainwashing) outlets to apportion their guilty verdict on the rebels and Russia without having any real evidence.In the aftermath of the crash the BBC even reported that Russia has taken the black boxes from the scene in order to conceal evidence.Now anyone with a little knowledge knows the black boxes are not going to reveal the type of missile fired against the plane.What the black boxes can reveal is the recorded conversation between the Ukrainian air control and the plane's crew.It suffices to say that those recordings have been confiscated and are in the possession of the Ukrainian secret services.

'The proof is in the pudding', in this case satelite images. However a 5 year old with some experience of photoshop could have produced these in a matter of seconds. Either the Russians are lying or the Americans are lying or, very likely, everyone is lying. So what we need is some real footage or live recordings in order to put the matter to rest.

What do you expect from communist KGB Putin he even killed Russian peasants to get criminal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkjG2LQx8oE self in to power. Only dumb Serbians believe the criminal Putin and KGB infested Kremlin.

Общие потери Киевских карателей в Донбассе со 2 мая по 27 июля 2014 года – 12 тысяч 615 человек, из них 7401 человек – (убитых и раненых), 14 – пленных и 5200 дезертиров. Уничтоженная техника:

- 2 самолета АН-26
- 1 самолет-разведчик АН-30
- 2 самолета – Ил 76
- 16 самолетов Су-25 (+1 СУ-25 захвачен в ЛНР 7 июля)
- 7 самолетов Су-24
- 4 беспилотника
- 19 боевых вертолетов («Ми-24», «Ми-17» и «Ми-8»)
- 119 танков Т-64
- 7 танков Т-72
- 1 танк «Булат»
- 5 Хаммеров - Джип
- 18 Газ-66 - штабная машина - автокран
- 19 Уралов
- 26 Камазов
- 3 УАЗ 469
- 2 САУ-Нона
- 2 САУ 2С3 «Акация»
- 2 зенитные установки ЗУ 23-2
- 8 установок РСЗО ГРАД
- 6 установок РСЗО Ураган
- 23 гаубицы Д-30
- 17 122 мм минометов
- 61 БМП
- 49 БМД
- 141 БТР.
.

Leonidas, you are way to far gone to be helped, but for others who still think this plane was shot down by someone other than Russia or without the support of Russia.
I do believe it was an accident

(Dwight, 30 July 2014 16:26)

Well, even your own retired Brig. Gen. Kevin Ryan, the director of the Defense and Intelligence Project at the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs, claims, "It seems unlikely that the self-defense forces could’ve used Buk surface-to-air missile systems to down the Malaysian plane. It takes a lot of training and a lot of coordination to fire one of these and hit something ...This is not the kind of weapon a couple of guys are going to pull out of a garage and fire."." According to Ryan, if the plane was taken down, then it was done by a professional military force.

Even if we consider this "evidence" to be genuine, then what do Russian self-propelled artillery pieces (within their own borders, no less) have to do with the shooting down of a Malaysian Airlines airliner?

Let's face it, America has nothing, no evidence whatsoever. No different to their claims that Assad used chemical weapons against the rebels or that Iraq has weapons of mass-distraction... err, destruction.

They always seem to claim there is evidence, but they never seem to be able to present any, has anyone noticed this? They are resting their cases on their very thin credibility, nothing else.

But hey, since they CLAIM to have evidence, then this is surely good enough to impose sanctions on the Russians already, isn't it? Guilty until proven innocent?

Leonidas, you are way to far gone to be helped, but for others who still think this plane was shot down by someone other than Russia or without the support of Russia.
I do believe it was an accident

Russians claiming responsibility in social media post, deleting short time later
https://www.facebook.com/uacrisis/posts/667735346628557

Intercepted calls about where to deploy the BUK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVAOTWPmMM4

Intercepted phone calls where shooting of plane is discussing including hunting for a pilot and then finding only civilian bodies and belongings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgad4UcYJ0w

Geolocated photos and videos of a Russian BUK system moving into the area in the morning and leaving afterwards.
Photograph of plume.
http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.nl/2014/07/launch-location-detected-of-missile.html?m=1


Videos of Russian soldiers firing shells across the border into Ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM0dVbJYeXQ

US satelite photos of Russians firing shells across the border into Ukraine
https://twitter.com/GeoffPyatt

Video of Russian heavy machinery entering serbia

Russian Evidence:

Digital reenactment of radar sightings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKCaEmvhr6w

Eagle eyed witness sees Ukrainian jet tailing MH17
http://rt.com/news/175476-bbc-deleted-report-mh17/

Leo - squirm on.

Even if is the case that the US plays propaganda games for its own purposes:

It is certainly the case that Putin, Milosevic, etc., and that ilk depend on lies to keep themselves in power.

I don't support any of them EU US Putin etc.. You however have an agenda.

"eye witnesses, all of whom spotted a military plane' closing"
Only Superman can see a plane at 33,000 feet with the naked eye.

...In the case of Malaysian Jetliner the entire Western prostitute media was orchestrated with blame instantly being placed on Russia long in advance of any real information and evidence which leads me to believe that the downing of the airliner was a Washington operation.Why? One possible explanation is Washington is desperate to break up the growing economic and political ties between Russia and Europe.
(Leonidas, 29 July 2014 16:06)...

If Washington is desperate to break up the growing economic and political ties between Russia and Europe,it could have been more effective to hit a Europian airline jet rather than Malaysian one.

The problem between people who lived under the communism like me and Leonidas whose county won bingo,by Yalta and didnt live one day under cruel regimes sponsored by Russia,is that we know very well what Russia can do and you dont.
You belive everything that Russian Times writes and I think u believe that Putin is a really democrat.
It is your right to hate the West,but if u hate the West so much,better go e live under "democratic" Russia.In this case u dont have to worry about anything.

All the evidence suggests that the Malasyian jet was hit by rebels may by mistake,because I dont believe they are stuppid enough to open other fronts.
It si war and mistakes happen,why is so difficult to believe that Russians and their puppet make mistakes?

"According to Ryan, if the plane was taken down, then it was done by a professional military force."
(Leonidas, 30 July 2014 20:22)

....yes the implication being that it was a Russian force,
but the other option is it was a team that was not fully trained and/or without the full backup of radar and command that the system normally uses. I am saying no more on the subject, if Putin himself told you he did it, you wouldn't believe him

I am referring to your post of 21st of July in which you alleged that Russia was removing evidence from the crash site in order to conceal its guilt.
(Leonidas, 29 July 2014 15:29)

Ehmm, it has been established that the crash site has been compromised. people's bodies were removed before any investigation could take place. Personal belongings, including passports were removed from the site. Parts of the plane were tampered with and even parts of different types of airplanes were scattered among the wreckage .
I know it can't have been the Americans, the Ukrainian government forces or the Europeans because none of them could have had access to the site.
So draw your own conclusions.
Oh, and don't forget. The rebels claim not to have had equipment that could have taken a plane out at that height. Yet less than a week later, after the incident, they boast to have downed 2 military aircraft, including a jet fighter plane (which can fly higher and faster than any commercial airliner).
To say that Kiev or the Americans or the EU is behind all this defies logic.

@ Leonidas,
I am not playing gamer.
I told u that the plane was hit by rebels by mistake.
Btw they have crushed several Ukrainians planes before.
This time I think they have hit the plane by mistake. It does happen.

@leonidas.
I think you misunderstood my comment. I said that the images produced by the Americans are not credible but at the same time the Russian version of events should also be taken with a 'pinch of salt', i.o.w. not credible either.
As far as I am concerned is that this 'war' stops before it escalates into something worse.

What do you expect from communist KGB Putin he even killed Russian peasants to get criminal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkjG2LQx8oE self in to power. Only dumb Serbians believe the criminal Putin and KGB infested Kremlin.

Desperation shows in the self-justification of proRussian posters.

Time after time they squirm.

They'll believe what they want to believe.

Doesn't make it right.

'The proof is in the pudding', in this case satelite images. However a 5 year old with some experience of photoshop could have produced these in a matter of seconds. Either the Russians are lying or the Americans are lying or, very likely, everyone is lying. So what we need is some real footage or live recordings in order to put the matter to rest.

That’s right these are the same satellites that produced images of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq used by Colon Powell in the UN. Poor Barak Obama, he is surrounded by oceans of exceptionally stupid people – they need to use a new trick.
So far the US has spent $5 billion on Ukraine with no result while in the US infrastructure crumbles and services disappear Washington burns money like there is no tomorrow

(T,

This is not what you were saying few days ago. The facts show that since the break out of the crisis in Ukraine there was a continuous stream of US intelligence data backed by satellite images on the alleged movement of Russian troops and equipment on the Russia-Ukraine border yet it is puzzling that despite the vast U.S. attention concentrated on eastern Ukraine for the past half year, the alleged trucking of several large Buk anti-aircraft missile systems from Russia to Ukraine and then back to Russia hasn't shown up at all on the surveillance satellite imagery. Instead of pressing for such 'details', mainstream media simply pass on the propaganda coming from the right wing Ukrainian government ,the U.S. State Department, social media and hype the fact that the Buk system is Russian-made.After days of flip-flopping the US finally decided to present its pathetic evidence of Russian involvement. Only one image allegedly shows a blast mark in Russian territory and no actual connection to the alleged impact craters.To prove such a connection an inversion trace of the rocket must be provided which they’ve been unable to provide for obvious reasons(cannot be manufactured).On the other hand the release by Russia of satellite images showing the presence of Ukrainian Buk anti-aircraft missiles in locations from which the airliner could have been brought down and a fighter plane flying near to the malaysian plane are more credible and should be investigated thoroughly.

why shouldn't the rebels have access to heavy weapons? it's not a rule of war that only one side can use them.

Leo - squirm on.

Even if is the case that the US plays propaganda games for its own purposes:

It is certainly the case that Putin, Milosevic, etc., and that ilk depend on lies to keep themselves in power.

I don't support any of them EU US Putin etc.. You however have an agenda.

I am referring to your post of 21st of July in which you alleged that Russia was removing evidence from the crash site in order to conceal its guilt.
(Leonidas, 29 July 2014 15:29)

Ehmm, it has been established that the crash site has been compromised. people's bodies were removed before any investigation could take place. Personal belongings, including passports were removed from the site. Parts of the plane were tampered with and even parts of different types of airplanes were scattered among the wreckage .
I know it can't have been the Americans, the Ukrainian government forces or the Europeans because none of them could have had access to the site.
So draw your own conclusions.
Oh, and don't forget. The rebels claim not to have had equipment that could have taken a plane out at that height. Yet less than a week later, after the incident, they boast to have downed 2 military aircraft, including a jet fighter plane (which can fly higher and faster than any commercial airliner).
To say that Kiev or the Americans or the EU is behind all this defies logic.

...In the case of Malaysian Jetliner the entire Western prostitute media was orchestrated with blame instantly being placed on Russia long in advance of any real information and evidence which leads me to believe that the downing of the airliner was a Washington operation.Why? One possible explanation is Washington is desperate to break up the growing economic and political ties between Russia and Europe.
(Leonidas, 29 July 2014 16:06)...

If Washington is desperate to break up the growing economic and political ties between Russia and Europe,it could have been more effective to hit a Europian airline jet rather than Malaysian one.

The problem between people who lived under the communism like me and Leonidas whose county won bingo,by Yalta and didnt live one day under cruel regimes sponsored by Russia,is that we know very well what Russia can do and you dont.
You belive everything that Russian Times writes and I think u believe that Putin is a really democrat.
It is your right to hate the West,but if u hate the West so much,better go e live under "democratic" Russia.In this case u dont have to worry about anything.

All the evidence suggests that the Malasyian jet was hit by rebels may by mistake,because I dont believe they are stuppid enough to open other fronts.
It si war and mistakes happen,why is so difficult to believe that Russians and their puppet make mistakes?

Leonidas, you are way to far gone to be helped, but for others who still think this plane was shot down by someone other than Russia or without the support of Russia.
I do believe it was an accident

Russians claiming responsibility in social media post, deleting short time later
https://www.facebook.com/uacrisis/posts/667735346628557

Intercepted calls about where to deploy the BUK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVAOTWPmMM4

Intercepted phone calls where shooting of plane is discussing including hunting for a pilot and then finding only civilian bodies and belongings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgad4UcYJ0w

Geolocated photos and videos of a Russian BUK system moving into the area in the morning and leaving afterwards.
Photograph of plume.
http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.nl/2014/07/launch-location-detected-of-missile.html?m=1


Videos of Russian soldiers firing shells across the border into Ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM0dVbJYeXQ

US satelite photos of Russians firing shells across the border into Ukraine
https://twitter.com/GeoffPyatt

Video of Russian heavy machinery entering serbia

Russian Evidence:

Digital reenactment of radar sightings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKCaEmvhr6w

Eagle eyed witness sees Ukrainian jet tailing MH17
http://rt.com/news/175476-bbc-deleted-report-mh17/

"eye witnesses, all of whom spotted a military plane' closing"
Only Superman can see a plane at 33,000 feet with the naked eye.

@ Leonidas,
I am not playing gamer.
I told u that the plane was hit by rebels by mistake.
Btw they have crushed several Ukrainians planes before.
This time I think they have hit the plane by mistake. It does happen.

nice fake image .America is pathetic with their lies and propaganda....nobody cares about America anymore.....

I think people missed the point of this little presentation. The whole point was to offer some kind of proof that the Russians were somehow guilty of shooting down that airliner.

Even if the accusations made here were true, it would have absolutely nothing to do with missiles that shoot down airplanes. The evidence they offer here are strictly for artillery missiles, it has nothing to do with any kind of ground to air missiles at all.

They have no evidence the Russians or the separatists were involved at all because it was the Ukraine military that did it. That's what the available evidence indicates. This stuff is bogus to the issue.

"According to Ryan, if the plane was taken down, then it was done by a professional military force."
(Leonidas, 30 July 2014 20:22)

....yes the implication being that it was a Russian force,
but the other option is it was a team that was not fully trained and/or without the full backup of radar and command that the system normally uses. I am saying no more on the subject, if Putin himself told you he did it, you wouldn't believe him

Desperation shows in the self-justification of proRussian posters.

Time after time they squirm.

They'll believe what they want to believe.

Doesn't make it right.
(Bob, 28 July 2014 16:46)

If that is the best you can do then desperation becomes your prerogative.The same US people that presented today's evidence are the people who brought us WMDs in Iraq - don't you remember the sheer volume of fake pics and fake "evidence" we were sold back then?Bottom line is someone has got to be an idiot looking for a fix to listen to the U.S. When a nation is supporting Israel, ISIS, Egypt,Ukrainian fascists etc., why should anyone listen to their moral twaddle?

Nice picture but what does it really prove?
Depending on the angle you could swap Russian side and Ukranian side very nicely. Not saying that's what's happened here but you can do anything you like since we can't tell which is which by looking at that picture. What exactly do we see there? Maybe they should've photoshopped a nice tank or two as well for more impact.

I don't support any of them EU US Putin etc.. You however have an agenda.
(Bob, 29 July 2014 01:43)

Indeed,you're an innocent bystander with no agenda (I wonder why most of the posters on this site are calling you a troll)whereas anyone shouting loudly from the roof the crimes your employers are committing around the world against small nations is guilty of having an agenda.My only agenda is to inform and educate people with half brain on the propaganda that is emanating from the west on various issues.In the case of Malaysian Jetliner the entire Western prostitute media was orchestrated with blame instantly being placed on Russia long in advance of any real information and evidence which leads me to believe that the downing of the airliner was a Washington operation.Why? One possible explanation is Washington is desperate to break up the growing economic and political ties between Russia and Europe.

Общие потери Киевских карателей в Донбассе со 2 мая по 27 июля 2014 года – 12 тысяч 615 человек, из них 7401 человек – (убитых и раненых), 14 – пленных и 5200 дезертиров. Уничтоженная техника:

- 2 самолета АН-26
- 1 самолет-разведчик АН-30
- 2 самолета – Ил 76
- 16 самолетов Су-25 (+1 СУ-25 захвачен в ЛНР 7 июля)
- 7 самолетов Су-24
- 4 беспилотника
- 19 боевых вертолетов («Ми-24», «Ми-17» и «Ми-8»)
- 119 танков Т-64
- 7 танков Т-72
- 1 танк «Булат»
- 5 Хаммеров - Джип
- 18 Газ-66 - штабная машина - автокран
- 19 Уралов
- 26 Камазов
- 3 УАЗ 469
- 2 САУ-Нона
- 2 САУ 2С3 «Акация»
- 2 зенитные установки ЗУ 23-2
- 8 установок РСЗО ГРАД
- 6 установок РСЗО Ураган
- 23 гаубицы Д-30
- 17 122 мм минометов
- 61 БМП
- 49 БМД
- 141 БТР.
.

Oh, and don't forget. The rebels claim not to have had equipment that could have taken a plane out at that height. Yet less than a week later, after the incident, they boast to have downed 2 military aircraft, including a jet fighter plane (which can fly higher and faster than any commercial airliner).
To say that Kiev or the Americans or the EU is behind all this defies logic.
(T, 30 July 2014 08:00)

You shouldn't also forget the the reports with eye witnesses, all of whom spotted a military plane' closing on the Malaysian airliner.According to these reports there were two big bangs (the first one thought to be an air-to-air missile, the second, the ground launched missile).After the first, the witness describes the plane lurching to the left, consistent with the radar tracking path released to the world press by Russia. The Russians have produced a satellite imagery which shosw that it was indeed a Ukrainian battery which brought the plane down. But, surely you've read about that in our own media, haven't you?

(Mirel from Albania, 30 July 2014 15:44)

Hey Mirel from Albania .How about you stop playing games, pull your balls out from your skirt and man up.Lets start discussing seriously the Ykrainian issue and leave all your other nonsense aside.If you cannot do that then I suggest you sit on your couch playing playstation or start reading your comic books.

Even if we consider this "evidence" to be genuine, then what do Russian self-propelled artillery pieces (within their own borders, no less) have to do with the shooting down of a Malaysian Airlines airliner?

Let's face it, America has nothing, no evidence whatsoever. No different to their claims that Assad used chemical weapons against the rebels or that Iraq has weapons of mass-distraction... err, destruction.

They always seem to claim there is evidence, but they never seem to be able to present any, has anyone noticed this? They are resting their cases on their very thin credibility, nothing else.

But hey, since they CLAIM to have evidence, then this is surely good enough to impose sanctions on the Russians already, isn't it? Guilty until proven innocent?

Let's face it, America has nothing, no evidence whatsoever. No different to their claims that Assad used chemical weapons against the rebels or that Iraq has weapons of mass-distraction... err, destruction.

They always seem to claim there is evidence, but they never seem to be able to present any, has anyone noticed this? They are resting their cases on their very thin credibility, nothing else.

But hey, since they CLAIM to have evidence, then this is surely good enough to impose sanctions on the Russians already, isn't it? Guilty until proven innocent?
(Peter Sudyka,

You're dead right.If one goes back to recent conflicts in Iraq,Afganistan,Libya and Syria all the evidence presented by the US was manufactured in Langley Virginia.What it's the most amazing on the recent crash of the Malaysian Airliner is that it took approximately two hours the Western media(brainwashing) outlets to apportion their guilty verdict on the rebels and Russia without having any real evidence.In the aftermath of the crash the BBC even reported that Russia has taken the black boxes from the scene in order to conceal evidence.Now anyone with a little knowledge knows the black boxes are not going to reveal the type of missile fired against the plane.What the black boxes can reveal is the recorded conversation between the Ukrainian air control and the plane's crew.It suffices to say that those recordings have been confiscated and are in the possession of the Ukrainian secret services.

@leonidas.
I think you misunderstood my comment. I said that the images produced by the Americans are not credible but at the same time the Russian version of events should also be taken with a 'pinch of salt', i.o.w. not credible either.
As far as I am concerned is that this 'war' stops before it escalates into something worse.

Leonidas, you are way to far gone to be helped, but for others who still think this plane was shot down by someone other than Russia or without the support of Russia.
I do believe it was an accident

(Dwight, 30 July 2014 16:26)

Well, even your own retired Brig. Gen. Kevin Ryan, the director of the Defense and Intelligence Project at the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs, claims, "It seems unlikely that the self-defense forces could’ve used Buk surface-to-air missile systems to down the Malaysian plane. It takes a lot of training and a lot of coordination to fire one of these and hit something ...This is not the kind of weapon a couple of guys are going to pull out of a garage and fire."." According to Ryan, if the plane was taken down, then it was done by a professional military force.

@leonidas.
I think you misunderstood my comment. I said that the images produced by the Americans are not credible but at the same time the Russian version of events should also be taken with a 'pinch of salt', i.o.w. not credible either.
As far as I am concerned is that this 'war' stops before it escalates into something worse.
(T, 29 July 2014 09:24)

I am referring to your post of 21st of July in which you alleged that Russia was removing evidence from the crash site in order to conceal its guilt.

I don't support any of them EU US Putin etc.. You however have an agenda.
(Bob, 29 July 2014 01:43)

Indeed,you're an innocent bystander with no agenda (I wonder why most of the posters on this site are calling you a troll)whereas anyone shouting loudly from the roof the crimes your employers are committing around the world against small nations is guilty of having an agenda.My only agenda is to inform and educate people with half brain on the propaganda that is emanating from the west on various issues.In the case of Malaysian Jetliner the entire Western prostitute media was orchestrated with blame instantly being placed on Russia long in advance of any real information and evidence which leads me to believe that the downing of the airliner was a Washington operation.Why? One possible explanation is Washington is desperate to break up the growing economic and political ties between Russia and Europe.