"Kosovo army would be threat to Serbia and region"

According to him, Kosovo and Metohija remains the country's biggest security threat.

Can this Serbian DM explain why Kosova is a threat to Serbia!?
On the contrary, Serbia is a threat to the region. But, if another wrong Slobo move happens,Serbia will cease to exist.

What we do internally is none of Serbia's business. We want our own Army, and by god we will have our Army. Deal with it even better take it to ICJ make us all laugh again.

Gasic? Isn't that serbianised version of the Albanian surname 'Gashi'?

What...and you think that we will sit by and become another Palestine. I don't think so. We will expand our borders into Presevo and Northern Macedonia. We will develop a mordern and professional army like the Croats currently have and push the remaining Serbs to the outskirts of Nis. Who would even try to stop such a force. Be my guest.

One would think Serbian army full of war criminals is a threat to Kosovo and region.

Gasic, it wouldn't be as destabilizing for the region then Serbia was, and has been! It was Serbia & her armed forces that promoted and caused a complete destabilization to the entire Southern European area for 20+ years with her barbaric wars of aggression against her neighboring countries, and in a lot of ways continues to destabilize the region today! As for Kosova having a army, Kosova thru-out the pages of history has always maintained a army, its entire population is born into this life, into this world a army! Yes, we've probably lacked to a large extent the weapons of many armies, but what we lacked in weapons we have made up in will power & courage, breaking down our enemies slowly, always being a dagger in her side, bleeding her little by little, refusing to kneel and bow before any enemy, including little Serb nobody's! Now, we will modernize our armed force, having the same capabilities of every army in the region, no more being the people with their backs on the floor! Yes, a evenly balanced field of soldiers, at the ready to do battle yet again against all potential
barbaric-aggressors that may still exist, hiding behind the shadows!

Kosovo army aka donkey brigade. .what a joke

Gasic? Isn't that serbianised version of the Albanian surname 'Gashi'?
(adrian kola, 28 July 2014 11:33)

There is defiantly some Gashi blood running thru his veins! Shucks, his great grandfather was probably from the Gashi line, and believe you me, many of these Chetniks have some Albanian blood running thru their veins! I've had many older uncles and relatives that had relationships with Serbian woman... Believe me when I tell you, Serbian woman don't have a problem with us Albanians one bit, it's their males that have some kind of genetic malfunction?

The best Pristina can do is declare the local constabulary an army and that is all. It’s all fantasy.
(sj, 28 July 2014 11:45)

And, you still believe Miloshevic is alive and will do another venture in Kosova!? hahahahahaha

From 321timesup: "...As for Kosova having a army, Kosova thru-out the pages of history has always maintained a army, its entire population is born into this life, into this world a army!... what we lacked in weapons we have made up in will power & courage, breaking down our enemies slowly,...refusing to kneel and bow before any enemy,...Now, we will modernize our armed force, having the same capabilities of every army in the region, no more being the people with their backs on the floor! Yes, a evenly balanced field of soldiers, at the ready to do battle yet again against all potential barbaric-aggressors that may still exist, hiding behind the shadows!"

Hey 321, it's time for you to come back to the real world. This image of Albanians being a fierce fighting force is a joke! The army that you refer to throughout Kosovo's history was the Serbian army under Czar Dusan & Czar Lazar. And your comment about Albanians refusing to kneel before any enemy is pure fiction. Please explain how the majority of Albanians and nearly 100% of those living in Kosovo became Muslim? The answer is they knelt before the Ottomans and converted to Islam to lead easier lives. When confronted with life and death struggles throughout history Albanians have chosen the easy way out. That is why today's Kosovo is the heroine and drug-running capital of Europe. Why choose education and hard work when the criminal life is much easier? Nice history you have there 321.

To a place like Kosovo a proper army is a luxury that it can ill afford to establish or maintain. Kosovo does not have the funds to do either as it is battling with a real level of unemployment of 70% plus and no prospects of reducing this number of people seeking work. Its main source of income is EU funds which are quickly diminishing as Brussels battles it own economic hydra. When you have the largest employer, the Government, sourcing its funds from outside then Kosovo will get that army if EU citizens work until 80 before getting a pension.
The best Pristina can do is declare the local constabulary an army and that is all. It’s all fantasy.

(Bam Bam, 28 July 2014 11:37)

Every person who is concerned about the Balkans needs to take heed to bam bam here. He is dead serious and also deadly delusional about the capacity of this hypothetical donkey army. But here's the best part, the wild rabid Albanian ultra nationalists have convinced themselves that THEY won a war in the 90s and that is the reason they are occupying Serbia's holy land.

So you know, never mind that their airforce was NATO, the strongest military alliance on the planet.. no THEY won. So now they will try to take territory of even more sovereign countries-Greece, Montenegro and FYR Macedonia. This is the greatest thing that could have ever happened for all those who believe in Kosovo-Metohija.

The formation of an Albanian army in Pristina, the rise of Albanian ultra nationalists in Albania and the continued calls for a Greater Albania MUST be supported and financed by Serbia if need be. Why? NATO can't possibly justify supporting separatist terrorism in 4 UN sovereign recognized countries, and there is no way they can win without NATO.

Because what's the rule of thumb? When NATO is not there, the Albanians lose. In FYR Macedonia, in Presevo, in Mitrovica 2011 when ROSU terrorists were sent packing back to their drug induced stronghold of Pristina... I can go on and on. No NATO, no nothing.

So yes, PLEASE... bring on the "Kosovo army", bring on "natural Albania" and I can only pray to God that Bam Bam gets his way.

So yes, PLEASE... bring on the "Kosovo army", bring on "natural Albania" and I can only pray to God that Bam Bam gets his way.
(Ari Gold, 28 July 2014 15:12)

ARI, you have the mentality of a 5 year old, what makes you think we are going to take a aggressive stance towards our neighbors, we will leave the "barbaric ultra nationalistic aggressive policies to your Serbia" as it has a more natural fitting! As for us Albanians, time & democracy are clearly on are side in regards to the re-creation of natural Albania! Let me ask you Ari, why have a piece of Macedonia at this particular time in history, when lets say in 35-50 years the overwhelming majority population there will be Albanian? I know you would like us Albanians to jump the gun, however that is a Serbian trait, In some instances, We will just have to subdue our cravings for our tiny piece of cake at this moment in time, staying hungry, our stomachs growling knowing very well that at a future point in history we will have the entire table of desserts completely to ourselves! I for one am willing to wait, I am in no rush to have our big guns fielded yet, we will just let our guns in our pants do their work, while enjoying ourselves! And by the way, I would think its past your bedtime about now!!!

@bam bam
Stop the silly nonsense, finish your chocolate milk and go to sleep, it's past your bedtime, you need lots of rest if your gonna wake up early and watch cartoons

We will expand our borders into Presevo and Northern Macedonia. We will develop a mordern and professional army like the Croats currently have and push the remaining Serbs to the outskirts of Nis. Who would even try to stop such a force. Be my guest.
(Bam Bam, 28 July 2014 11:37)

I see you decided to be Albanian today.

I say stayed because hundreds of thousands of Serbs from Kosovo-Metohija [sic] were cleansed during the war.
(Ari Gold, 29 July 2014 01:02)

Ari, cut the BS!

There were 194,190 Serbs in Kosovo in 1991 and there are 140,000+ Serbs in Kosovo currently.

There weren't hundreds of thousands of Serbs in Kosovo in the first place therefore it is impossible for "hundreds of thousands of Serbs" to be ethnically cleansed from Kosovo.

If you really want to look at ethnic cleansing in Kosovo, you have to go back to 1912-3 where up to 120,000 Albanians were massacred by the military during the "liberation" of Kosovo. Every Albanian in the town of Prizren had their nose and upper lip cut off. From 1918-1921 the Albanian population of Kosovo decreased from 1 Million to 440,000 whilst 65,000 Serb colonists settled in Kosovo. Yugoslavia signed a deal with Turkey in 1935 to deport 200,000 Albanians. A similar deal was signed in 1938 to deport a further 40,000 Albanians. This never materialised as WW2 got in the way. Tito thankfully abolished this sick government programme when he came to power.

There are now 300,000 K-Albanians in Germany, 200,000 K-Albanians in Switzerland and 150,000 Kosovo born Albanians in Macedonia due to the oppression the Albanians received in Kosovo from the late 1980s to 1999. And don't forget that at one point in the Kosovo War, over a million Albanians were forced to flee Kosovo.

So yes, PLEASE... bring on the "Kosovo army", bring on "natural Albania" and I can only pray to God that Bam Bam gets his way.
(Ari Gold, 28 July 2014 15:12)

Granted Ari, that we don't have an army, but Why were you a staunch supporter of so called ' Yellow House" fantasy ? If our army rides donkeys, how in the world we can perform organ transplant surgeries in a house ,which is not fit for animals to live in it??? Please, an honest to god answer. Tomorrow at 10:30am watch Clint's report live.

They were not soldiers that were captured, but civilians, usually children because of the high value of their organs. Children who were outnumbered by wild extremists that were protected by NATO.

(Ari Gold, 29 July 2014 01:02)


Ari,

You must be getting desperate since you are now using further lies to support your argument. Even the biggest liars on the Serbian side have never said children's organs were being removed for sale.

(njegos, 29 July 2014 15:31)

Have you any evidence to suggest they are lying?

Chopping off the nose and the uper lip was a practice well known with the Serbian army during the period, they would do it do captured Ottoman soldiers.

Bam Bam,

Always calling for more bloodshed in the Balkans ... sick.

The great warrior LOL! Your dumb threats and bravado remind me of an immature hormonal teenager shooting his mouth off for attention.

As the Cold War showed so well with Russia and the US, the only way to have long lasting peace with little Russia is balance of power. So Kosovo will have its army.

Ari gold is right.serbia can defeat NATO with in minute.just have look Serbia Air Force ,mig11,mig 13 and half and many many more balloons from where they can throw nuclear bombs P

ARI, you have the mentality of a 5 year old
(rocky, 28 July 2014 16:45)

This comment coming from someone with the maturity and intellect of a three year old.

Obviously sir, you are in a desperate need of a history lesson. 50, 000 Serbs were ethnically cleansed from Pristina alone. But I'll let you educate yourself and wont waste my time explaining everyhwere else Serbs were cleansed.
(Ari Gold, 29 July 2014 17:38)

I'm in desperate need of a history lesson? haha

Ari, the Serb population of Pristina before the war was 27,293. So please tell me how "50, 000 Serbs were ethnically cleansed from Pristina alone" because that is not mathematically possible.

In February 2000, OSCE/UNHCR estimated that the Serb population of Pristina was around 12,000.

Please don't make up false statistics. I know when you're lying. I on the other hand never lie. I don't need to unlike you.

Maybe some of you that have the know should be speaking to the leaders of Serbia. Everyone here seems to know that a Army in Kosovo is either a joke or totally no match for the supreme military of Serbia and there is no way Kosovo can afford to staff and equip such an army. But your leaders say it would destabilize the entire region. They either do not know or they think that the Serbian military is not all it is cracked up to be.

@Grobar 1:

Seriously?? Kosovar-Albanians utilize donkeys for military purposes?? I pretty much doubt it,in fact,KPS (Kosovar Police Service) and ROSU don't ride donkeys as a form of transportation. What's next?(even if it's slightly off topic)Is someone going to allege or claim that Albanian spouses sing Qenji Vogel (Little Lamb) to one another to assist them in falling asleep?? Get real! Why would they want to do a thing like that?? That is a lullabye song designed to assist young Albanian children even babies fall asleep not for adults nor older kids to assist them in falling asleep as far as I'm concerned.

According to him, Kosovo and Metohija remains the country's biggest security threat.

-- I don't get the statement above. Everyday I read and see here on B92 from Serb leaders and Serb people how Serbia is the strongest, the best, the most advanced, the lions, the owners of the Balkans. How can such a country and such a people be threatened by an army that still doesn't exist? Seems your leaders and the Serb commenters here know their megalomanic claim are full of cow manure, and the country is a mess.

(njegos, 29 July 2014 13:35)

You want evidence?

Ok, just have a read of the eye witness accounts of Edith Durham and Leon Trotsky who were actually there.

So yes, PLEASE... bring on the "Kosovo army", bring on "natural Albania" and I can only pray to God that Bam Bam gets his way.
(Ari Gold, 28 July 2014 15:12)

Serbs fear to death Kosovo Army - don't worry they will be there very soon heavy armed and protecting its citizens - this guy can cry much as he wants fearing threat of the region.
Don't forget you toothless monkey. These still remaining in Kosovo they dying out any way - now not from "KLA and NATO terrorists" but naturally so nothing to fear the threat of the region or as I can hear people I. This forum praying one day they will come back to Kosovo and clean out from Albanians - hohohoho it's a joke you can dream about.

Ha,ha,ha! Are you serious? First you cite as your sources Edith Durham who was a known anti-Serb who referred to Serbs as 'vermin." She has been criticized and rebuked by other British intellectuals such as Rebecca West. Please, if you're going to cite sources, come up with soemone with at least a little bit of objectivity.

And if that wasn't bad enough you use Leon Trotsky as another source. Trotsky was a Marxist revolutionary and a radical leftest. He was responsible for establishing one of the most oppressive regimes known to man. And you put faith in what this nut case has said? Next you'll be citing Mao Zedong and Fidel Castro.

Way to go Ian, although I didn't think it was possible, you've now embarrased yourself to the point of losing all credibility in any serious discussion on world affairs. Too funny!
(njegos, 29 July 2014 15:31)

njegos you are employing what are also known, as fallacies. You are evading the actual argument by attacking your opponent. That is called Argumentum ad hominem. Then you are also employing a false dilemma, that is you are holding two possible alternatives as the only possible options; never really going into the argument itself. The argument holds, Serbia did ethnically cleanse Albanian in the hundreds of thousands. There are documents, reports and even pictures. In 1999 we have a year of daily videos documenting the expulsion of Albanians. There are master plans by Serb governments on how to ethnically cleanse Albanians.

(njegos, 30 July 2014 15:33)

I provided with you with reports/ accounts from people who were there during the period.

But you have disregarded them because one was a "controversial British writer" and the other was a "whacko Marxist leftist".

Edith Durham was a British traveller who travelled the Balkans during the period and was in Kosovo during the Balkan Wars. What makes you think she was lying? What reason would she have to make up this claim?

Trotsky was a Jewish Marxist and he was also a journalist for a newspaper who was based in Kosovo whilst reporting on the Balkan Wars. What reason would he have for making this up? He hated the Ottoman Empire. Responsibility for the USSR for being an "oppressive regime" lies with Stalin; Trotsky was only on the scene in the early days of the Soviet Union.

Leo Freundlich who was also from the period wrote in 1913 about Albanians having their noses cut off in Prizren. I suppose he is a liar too? He was another Jew who hated the Ottoman Empire.

Let me guess, Durham, Trotsky and Freundlich all got together and conspired against Serbian/ Montenegrin forces in Prizren and wrote the exact same lie about chopping off noses?

And I suppose it is also a coincidence that the Montenegrin Army closed off Prizren to foreigners to hide the atrocities once the city had been taken from the Ottoman Empire?

I'd rather believe Durham, Trotsky and Freundlich than you because they were actually there. You weren't!

Gasic, it wouldn't be as destabilizing for the region then Serbia was, and has been! It was Serbia & her armed forces that promoted and caused a complete destabilization to the entire Southern European area for 20+ years with her barbaric wars of aggression against her neighboring countries, and in a lot of ways continues to destabilize the region today! As for Kosova having a army, Kosova thru-out the pages of history has always maintained a army, its entire population is born into this life, into this world a army! Yes, we've probably lacked to a large extent the weapons of many armies, but what we lacked in weapons we have made up in will power & courage, breaking down our enemies slowly, always being a dagger in her side, bleeding her little by little, refusing to kneel and bow before any enemy, including little Serb nobody's! Now, we will modernize our armed force, having the same capabilities of every army in the region, no more being the people with their backs on the floor! Yes, a evenly balanced field of soldiers, at the ready to do battle yet again against all potential
barbaric-aggressors that may still exist, hiding behind the shadows!
(321Timesup!, 28 July 2014 12:29)
# Comment link


321 timesup, you are great story teller.

And, you still believe Miloshevic is alive and will do another venture in Kosova!? hahahahahaha
(the truth, 28 July 2014 12:53)

No, that's what Albanians think.

The best Pristina can do is declare the local constabulary an army and that is all. It’s all fantasy.
(sj, 28 July 2014 11:45)

sj, rote, njegos and Ari Gold,

Well look who's back and on leave from the "30 Ruble Army". Isn't it time for Russia to give a cost of living increase to your meager salary.

Serbs fear to death Kosovo Army - don't worry they will be there very soon heavy armed and protecting its citizens - this guy can cry much as he wants fearing threat of the region.
(Cleaned, 29 July 2014 15:53)

Fear what? In 2011, the closest thing to a "kosovo army" (ROSU terror squads) came to Mitrovica to impose its will on the citizens there and they were chased out..... by civilians!

No Serbian army, no nothing. Just 40, 000 concentrated Serbs were not odds that you liked. You prefer 10 to 1 and the 1 being a teenage girl or a elder. You lose every time NATO isn't bombing for you. Rule of thumb. Presevo, FYR Macedonia, Mitrovica 2011... on and on and on.

(njegos, 29 July 2014 17:09)

I provided you with evidence.

There are some very disturbing photographs too.

If this were a research project and I were grading you, you would have failed miserably. But then again, I have a feeling you fail at most things in life.
(njegos, 30 July 2014 15:33)

I have a history degree.

I woud recieve higher marks for using Primary Sources from the period.

njegos, you continue to evade the argument and instead engage in logical fallacies. Just because you attack your opponent doesn't mean the argument is now all of a sudden invalid. Concentrate on the argument, not the opponent. Also, you again you are bringing in false dilemmas. You present your options as if they somehow they magically make the argument disappear. The argument still stands - Albanians were ethnically cleansed. Concentrate on this. No false dichotomies or red herrings needed. Vasa Cubrilovic, a Serb minister lays it all out for you, It's the expulsion master plan. Later Seselj also publishes his expulsion plan.

P.S Belgrade was declared the first Jew free capital in Europe. Albania had more Jews after the war than before the war. Now you tell me whose people did the most to help their Jewish communities. For an anti-axis country Serbia sure stayed and watched as its Jewish community was exterminated while in Albania this community grew. Before being this proud, next time learn a bit more.

(njegos, 31 July 2014 15:37)

Yes Chetniks did save allied airmen and yes Mihailovic was awarded by the US after his death, I don't deny this at all. But it doesn't change the fact that Mihailovic took weapons from the Nazis to kill Partisans. It doesn't change the fact that he would negotiate in secret with the Nazis without the Yugoslav Government in Exile and his British allies knowing. It doesn't change the fact that Mihailovic agreed with the Nazis not to attack their communication lines. It doesn't change the fact that when he was running low on weapons and ammunition, he went running to the Nazis for more and they said no. It doesn't change the fact that he had is troops become 'legalised Chetniks' under Nazi General Nedic's command where they became employees of the fascist regime. It doesn't change the fact that he betrayed allied forces. The Nazis put a bounty on his head after he'd served his purpose for them. Mihailovic was more bothered about fighting Partisans rather than his Nazi friends. He was a Nazi collaborator who executed for his crimes.

And congratulations on meeting some allied Airmen saved by Chetniks. However just because you met some allied airmen who were saved by Chetniks doesn't change the fact that some Serbs collaborated with Nazis and other Axis forces.

Let's not give any credibility to a hypothetical army for a "state" that can barely function on its own. I'd like to think that VS would be more than capable of handling itself. Albania has an army no one has ever paid attention to. I think "Kosova" would fare even less once the international community compromises its formation down to what would be little more than a bunch of conscripts stealing timber and carjacking Renaults.

Who says all leaders of Serbia oppose a Kosovo army? It was president nikolic who said he supports a Kosovo army if it has a Serb regiment! With the strong support of Serbia Kosovo will have an army.

As the Cold War showed so well with Russia and the US, the only way to have long lasting peace with little Russia is balance of power. So Kosovo will have its army.
(Reader, 28 July 2014 15:50)
================================
The ONLY way you could fight Serbia is if NATO decided to fight for you.
Your army could only be used against the poor mistreated Serbs and other minorities within Kosovo. Even then you would get a fight back.

(The Count of Kosova, 28 July 2014 17:15)

Now who is going to pay for this army? EU citizens by working until 80? You are aware of that little thing called money.
When we finish with Ukraine Kosova is next – I suggest swimming lesson would be an advantage not only to wash for a chnage but save yourself from drowning in the Adriatic.

From Ian: "There are now 300,000 K-Albanians in Germany, 200,000 K-Albanians in Switzerland and 150,000 Kosovo born Albanians in Macedonia due to the oppression the Albanians received in Kosovo from the late 1980s to 1999. And don't forget that at one point in the Kosovo War, over a million Albanians were forced to flee Kosovo."

Ian, your fantasy land comments are quite comical. Every Albanian in Prizren had their nose and upper lip cut off, eh? If you're going to make such ridiculous claims, please provide your sources.

And regarding your above comments about the number of Albanians in the mentioned European countries, you failed to mention that in each of these countries Albanians make up the largest criminal organizations in their new respective homes. You see, K-Albanians fled to these countries because there were already large Albanian populations there. And in each of these countries, Albanian criminal gangs were and are reeking havoc. The criminals from Kosovo were all too happy to join their brethren in other parts of Europe.

Ian, why don't you concentrate on whether or not Andy Murray will ever win another major tennis event as the pride of Scotland and leave the events in the Balkans to those who know and understand the history. Run along now.

From Ian: "There are now 300,000 K-Albanians in Germany, 200,000 K-Albanians in Switzerland and 150,000 Kosovo born Albanians in Macedonia due to the oppression the Albanians received in Kosovo from the late 1980s to 1999. And don't forget that at one point in the Kosovo War, over a million Albanians were forced to flee Kosovo."

Ian, your fantasy land comments are quite comical. Every Albanian in Prizren had their nose and upper lip cut off, eh? If you're going to make such ridiculous claims, please provide your sources.

And regarding your above comments about the number of Albanians in the mentioned European countries, you failed to mention that in each of these countries Albanians make up the largest criminal organizations in their new respective homes. You see, K-Albanians fled to these countries because there were already large Albanian populations there. And in each of these countries, Albanian criminal gangs were and are reeking havoc. The criminals from Kosovo were all too happy to join their brethren in other parts of Europe.

Ian, why don't you concentrate on whether or not Andy Murray will ever win another major tennis event as the pride of Scotland and leave the events in the Balkans to those who know and understand the history. Run along now.

From Ian: "Have you any evidence to suggest they are lying?

Chopping off the nose and the uper lip was a practice well known with the Serbian army during the period, they would do it do captured Ottoman soldiers."

Ian - You made the statement that 'every' Albanian in the town of Prizren had their nose and upper lip cut off. Please provide evidence or some credible sources or refrain from making broad-brush blanket statements about an ethnic group that you obviously know little about.

A well-known practice of the Ottomans (to whom Albanians joined in droves) was to impale captured Serbs. Another was to cut their heads off and display them on steaks. Why don't you mention these practices Ian? Oh, that's right, that wouldn't fit your anti-Serb agenda now would it?

From Ian: "I provided you with evidence.

There are some very disturbing photographs too."

Ian - You provided NO evidence - only outlandish statements from a controversial British writer who has been soundly criticized by her peers and a whacko Maxist leftist who helped build one of the most oppressive regimes in history.

If this were a research project and I were grading you, you would have failed miserably. But then again, I have a feeling you fail at most things in life.

J - I would suggest you go back and read Ian's ridiculous claims about alleged Serb ethnic cleansing and atrocities of Albanians in 1912 - 13 & 1918 - 21. You conveniently jump to the 1990s. That is called deflection and obfuscation which is commonly used in a debate when one cannot support his/her position. Try to stick with the subject being discussed, as hard as that may be for you.

-- njegos, Albanians were also ethnically cleansed in 1912-13 and 1918-21. I mentioned 99 only to demonstrate the kind of documentation. For the earlier periods we have photographs, documentations, expulsion pacts between Turkey and the state of Serbia, testimonies from descendants and relatives of those that were ethnically cleansed and escaped to Albania. Even newspapers of that time, American and otherwise show this. Do you know for example that in central Albania there are towns whose inhabitants are descendant of Kosova Albanians that that were massively populated after they were ethnically cleansed in 1912-13 and 1918-21. Lastly, Serb ministers even laid out the expulsion master plans and this is published. Anyone can read it. Attrocities happened. Keep in mind that back then Serbia claimed Albania was Serbia's heart, it was "Old Serbia". In 1912 Serbia committed atrocities all the way down to Durres, when it was trying to claim it as a Serb territory, just days before we declared our independence. 1999 was only the last time Serbia ethnically cleansed us, not the first time.

(njegos, 30 July 2014 19:38)

What has any of that got to do with what I was saying about Prizren in 1912? You've gone off at a tangent and changed the subject because you were losing.

Ever heard of Godwin's Law? You have lost the argument for bringing up Hitler and the Nazis.

Anyway, since you've brought up Hitler and the Nazis, lets take a look at some more history. It is historical fact that Serbs worked and fought for the Nazis too, just like every other people in the Balkans. Here are just a few Serb examples in WW2:

1: Serbian State Guard
2: Serbian Volunteer Corps and Kosta Mušicki
3: Serbian Border Guard
4: Kosta Pecanac and his Black Chetniks
5: The normal Chetniks collaborated with everyone including the Germans, the Italians and the Ustaše and helped them fight Tito's Partisans. Here are just a few notable ones: Momcilo Ðujic, Jezdimir Dangic, Pavle Ðurišic, Petar Bacovic, Nikola Kalabic, Vojislav Lukacevic, Draža Mihailovic and Zaharije Ostojic ect all collaborated with Axis forces.

Then how can we forget Milan Nedic, Milan Acimovic, Dragomir Jovanovic, Lazo M. Kostic, Dimitrije Ljotic all politicians who collaborated with the Germans.

Sepp Jankowas an SS Officer and was Chairman of the Danube Swabian German Cultural Association.

Don't try me on history because I will win everytime.

Kosovo albanian army? lol :-)
Please, let them have their mighty and glorious Illyrian army :-)
Kosovo albanians have not only proved themselves to be totally incompetent, they also cowards by nature!
Even their "Special" police, ROSU have proved to be incompetent, even against unarmed civilians!
So please, let these monkeys have their amazing army, and just let them try to invade Serbia, Macedonia or Greece.
This time there will be no excuses for their inhalation!

When there is a threat the proper thing is to eliminate it!

(Ian, UK, 29 July 2014 12:40)

Obviously sir, you are in a desperate need of a history lesson. 50, 000 Serbs were ethnically cleansed from Pristina alone. But I'll let you educate yourself and wont waste my time explaining everyhwere else Serbs were cleansed.

Ari Gold said, "I wish one day I could get to the root of Ian, Uk's sick mental complexes. To come on a Serbian website, and spew such lies that not even admitted Albanian posters have spewed, makes me really want to learn about his history and figure out how he got to this point."

Not too difficult to assess.
He is young and lacks experience therefore he is short on wisdom.
His misplaced arrogance, boastfulness, and rudeness is reflective of his youth and immaturity.
I doubt he was out of diapers in the 1990s.
He simply reads and then comes on B92 regurgitating the information from his questionable sources adding his own spin.

From Ian: "I have a history degree.

I woud recieve higher marks for using Primary Sources from the period"

Ian - You should give your degree back. Here's a few more sources for you (all British, by the way):

- Lord Byron Foundation for Balkan Studies
- Lord Tennyson who wrote 3 poems about the bravery of the Montenegrin Serbs
- Rebecca West's book: Black Lamb & Grey Falcon which details the Serb courage in standing up to Hitler and the Axis while everyone else in the region, your Albanians included, joined the Axis.

I could give you more but I don't want to overload the few braincells that you have. Happy reading!

Albania wasn't even a country until 1912. The Albanians lost the Balkan Wars as allies of the Central Powers.

(njegos, 31 July 2014 15:06)

I wish I was as good at history as you njegos. I didn't even realise there were Central Powers in the Balkan Wars.

I thought that in the First Balkan War it was the Ottoman Empire v Montenegro, Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria; and in the Second Balkan War it was Bulgaria v Montenegro, Greece, Serbia, Romania and the Ottoman Empire.

Please njegos tell me, tell me who these Central Powers were in the Balkan Wars which the Albanians were allies with haha!

Granted Ari, that we don't have an army, but Why were you a staunch supporter of so called ' Yellow House" fantasy ? If our army rides donkeys, how in the world we can perform organ transplant surgeries in a house
(the truth, 28 July 2014 20:12)

Because the victims of the organ harvesting operation carried out by Albanian terrorist militias were the remaining civilians that stayed in Kosovo-Metohija after the war. I say stayed because hundreds of thousands of Serbs from Kosovo-Metohija were cleansed during the war.

They were not soldiers that were captured, but civilians, usually children because of the high value of their organs. Children who were outnumbered by wild extremists that were protected by NATO.

How is this not clear? Militarily, you could not defeat Serbia anywhere. Adem Jashiri tried and he failed. NATO can (obviously), you can't. Only unarmed civilians.

From Ian: "You want evidence?

Ok, just have a read of the eye witness accounts of Edith Durham and Leon Trotsky who were actually there."

Ha,ha,ha! Are you serious? First you cite as your sources Edith Durham who was a known anti-Serb who referred to Serbs as 'vermin." She has been criticized and rebuked by other British intellectuals such as Rebecca West. Please, if you're going to cite sources, come up with soemone with at least a little bit of objectivity.

And if that wasn't bad enough you use Leon Trotsky as another source. Trotsky was a Marxist revolutionary and a radical leftest. He was responsible for establishing one of the most oppressive regimes known to man. And you put faith in what this nut case has said? Next you'll be citing Mao Zedong and Fidel Castro.

Way to go Ian, although I didn't think it was possible, you've now embarrased yourself to the point of losing all credibility in any serious discussion on world affairs. Too funny!

I wish one day I could get to the root of Ian, Uk's sick mental complexes. To come on a Serbian website, and spew such lies that not even admitted Albanian posters have spewed, makes me really want to learn about his history and figure out how he got to this point.

Normal Westerners don't just do this. Regular people in North America and Western Europe by and large do not have a strong opinion on the Balkans. When they do, they almost never are rabid Albanian ultra nationalists...unless of course they are Albanian.

If not, then idk where this mans vehement hatred towards Serbs comes from to make it a point to come on here a Serbian website and vent his hatred. Calling Serbs "colonialists" in land they have lived in for over a thousand years. With at the very least, the history to prove it based on the oldest monuments standing in that land. This coming from a Brit which practically invented colonialism.

Either this is Ians way of dealing with the fact that his country may break apart internally, but most likely its because the UK almost 100% will itself break apart from his beloved EUSSR. I really wish I could just give you a hug and let you air out all your sick deranged hatred until it no longer eats you inside to speak such crocks of bls.

From J: "... The argument holds, Serbia did ethnically cleanse Albanian in the hundreds of thousands. There are documents, reports and even pictures. In 1999 we have a year of daily videos documenting the expulsion of Albanians. There are master plans by Serb governments on how to ethnically cleanse Albanians."

J - I would suggest you go back and read Ian's ridiculous claims about alleged Serb ethnic cleansing and atrocities of Albanians in 1912 - 13 & 1918 - 21. You conveniently jump to the 1990s. That is called deflection and obfuscation which is commonly used in a debate when one cannot support his/her position. Try to stick with the subject being discussed, as hard as that may be for you.

If you want to talk about the 1990s, please provide proper perspective. Albanians were driven from their homes in 1999 after NATO bombed the Serbs without a UN resolution. Milosevic brutally cracked down on the Albanians, driving many from their homes. I never denied that and I was never a fan of Milosevic and didn't agree with his tactics. But a large scale crackdown didn't occur until NATO bombed the Serbs. Your NATO airforce's illegal bombing precipitated Milosevic's illegal acts. Milosevic died in the Hague. Now go cry to Bill Clinton if you're looking for criminals.

I've been Serbian all my life, and I've never heard of Albania being 'Serbia's heart.' I have heard Albanians on this board, however, claiming that parts of Montenegro, Greece, Macedonia & Serbia are historic Albanian lands.

njegos- Too much traffic today so I'm tired to go and look. This claim was from Serb officials back when they were claiming Serbia's borders reached all the way to Durres. Today's borders were drawn by big powers and all your kings were cousins with their kings. We had no kings, we lost lands. Simple.

I've even heard some of your brethren claim that parts of Croatia

-There's stupid people everywhere.

It's interesting how you guys claim an Albanian presence throughout the Balkans from the beginning of time, yet there is almost no evidence of Albanian culture anywhere with the exception of Albania.

-Beginning of time is too long of a time, but we are there as evidence.

when you embrace every occupier that has crossed your path, you forfeit your culture and accept theirs.

- The culture is there. Epos, language, customs, songs etc. You gotta be willing to look.

That is why there are Muslim Albanians, Catholic Albanians and Orthodox Albanians.

- Religion does not define us, language and nationality does. So people change them as they wish.


You guys are famous for taking the easy way out when faced with adversity. What religion did your ancestors convert to J?

Atheist. Religions(all of them) are the easy way out.

(njegos, 31 July 2014 18:21)

I don't dispute that the Partisans made propaganda about the Chetniks, but it doesn't change the fact that Chetniks did collaborate with the Nazis and other Axis forces. Hitler himself was aware of negotiations with Mihailovic, Hitler personally rejected some of Mihailovic's proposals.

There were no Central Powers in the Balkan Wars, period! The egg is already on your face.

(njegos, 1 August 2014 13:43)

Source: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=R8d2409V9tEC&redir_esc=y

You can read up more on Mihailovic and Hitler on pages 161-5.

The Nazis did try and kill/ arrest him. Mihailovic made friends with the fascist Italians and Hitler had to write to Mussolini to tell him that he didn't approve of this collaboration. Source: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=43CbLU8FgFsC&redir_esc=y Pages 103-6

In August 1944 the pro-Nazi Serbian State Guard was placed under Mihailovic's command: Source: Same book pages 257–8

On 11 August 1944, Mihailovic met with Nazi Officers to increase collaborations as the Soviet Red Army invasion was imminent. Source: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yoCaAAAAIAAJ&redir_esc=y Page 342

I've already given you three lots of sources for the Prizren atrocities. But you think it is a credible argument to disregard them by saying one is "controversial British writer" and the other is a "leftist Marxist whacko". That pathetic argument wouldn't look very good in a history essay. Anyone marking such an essay would cringe if they read that.

"Ian, surely a scholar such as yourself knows that The Ottoman Empire, which your beloved Albanians were a part of and fought for against the Serbs during the Balkan Wars, were also a part of the Central Powers."

--njegos, the above is a blatant lie. Now you are spiraling into the stereotypical Serb where " We lie because we are patriots" as Dobrica Cosic used to say. Albanians had to fight Serbs, Greeks and Ottomans at the same time as all of them wanted Albanian lands. The Serbs were claiming lands all the way to Durres because for some reason Serbia could not live without a port in the Adriatic. Greece wanted land from the south up to Durres, because of they had the backing of the big powers. The Ottomans wanted to keep all of it. Serbia, Greece, and the Ottomans were all the same, land grabbers. You were not fighting the Ottomans in present day Albania, you were an occupying force. The Serbian goal was to have the borders as further down south into Albania as possible, so you could grab as much of our riviera as possible. At one point both Serbia and Greece got into trouble with Italy, because Italy wanted the region of Vlora, and Serbia and Greece wanted the region of Vlora as well. Read more. The maps of the Serbian claims are still there. They tell everything and not the BS about this fight to free all the Balkan people of the Ottomans. This fight was a fight about who could grab as much land as possible.

From Ian: "Mihailovic worked with both the Nazis and the Italians. Mihailovic received weapons from the Nazis to fight the Partisans and he held secret meetings with Nazi officers too. Fact!"

Ian, so let me get this straight: Hitler was willing to pay a $100K bounty to anyone who could deliver Mihailovich dead, and then Mihailovich voluntarily met with the same people who were trying to kill him, right? You are delusional!


From Ian: "And I've not said that all Chetniks were collaborators, some did a lot of good in the War Effort but others didn't; which brings me back to my original point, people of all ethnicities in the Balkans worked with the Nazis and people of all ethnicities in the Balkans fought against the Nazis."

Here's the glaring difference between the ethnic groups that you refer to: The Croatians, Albanians & Muslims embraced the Nazis from day 1 and willingly supported their policy of systematic killing.

The Serbs formed the 1st guerilla resistance to the Nazis, the Chetniks. They fought for the return of the King and a constitutional monarchy. Were there rogue groups of Chetniks who collaborated? Yes, but it wasn't a stated policy of the organization like it was with these others. Big difference. Your weak attempt at trying to equate the wrongdoing of these groups falls far short of the mark.

How is this a threat to the region?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTpT4vcncAs

From Ian: "Don't try me on history because I will win everytime"

Ian - I have to catch my breath after laughing so hard at your above statement. Allow me to provide you with some ACTUAL facts:

- Draza Mihailovich was awarded the Legion of Merit Medal from President Truman posthumously for his Chetniks role in saving over 500 downed US airmen. This remains the largest rescue behind enemy lines in US military history.

- Hitler put a 100K bounty on Mihailovich's head, yet you claim he was a Nazi collaborator.

- Hitler ordered 100 Serbs killed for every German soldier killed and 50 killed for every one wounded.

- Serbs staged a coup after the gov't. signed a neutrality pact with Germany and chose to fight the Nazis.

- Belgrade was bombed mercilessly after the coup.

- Milan Nedic was implemented as a quisling leader by the Germans after the occupation of Belgrade. The overwhelming majority of Serbs were fighting the Nazis as Chetniks & Partizans.

- Your Albanians embraced the Nazis.

Finally, I have spoken to several of the downed US airmen and their families who were saved by the Chetniks. Have you? I would like to see you tell them face to face that Mihailovich were Nazi collaborators.

The Chetniks lost the war, therefore, the history books were written by the communists. They painted Chetniks as traitors. No-nothings like you believe it. Sometimes you have to dig deeper for the truth. But that takes work, something very foreign to you.

Ian - The more you pound away at your computer keys, the more I understand the origins of your prospective. Tito would be very proud of you for espousing the communist party line as it relates to WWII Yugoslavia.

Might I suggest a book for your future reading: The Rape of Serbia by Michael Lees who was a British Liaison Officer assigned to the Chetniks in 1943 & 44. This is one of your own who was there on the ground during the war.

He explains that the British Secret Service was infiltrated with communist moles to spread propaganda of Chetnik collaboration. One tactic that proved very successful was for the Partizans to take credit for Chetnik military victories. Subversives within the British Secret Service convinced Churchill to abandon the Chetniks and support the communist Partizans. After the war, Churchill himself said that this was his biggest mistake during WWII. Churchill even tried to persuade Tito not to execute Mihailovich after his kangaroo cout trial but it was too late.

So let's see Ian, should one believe the first-hand account of a British Liaison Officier who was there on the ground and saw what occurred from the inside out, or you who gets his information from history books written by Tito and his regime? I think the choice is clear. You've been exposed as a fraud. There's more out there than the communist propaganda books that have poisoned your little brain.

(njegos, 1 August 2014 13:43)

I suppose a few Albanians could have been missed. People are naturally going to hide/ flee.

And I don't suppose they will have bothered chopping off the noses of the Albanians they killed; 400 civilians were killed in the first few days and 5,000 civilians were killed by November 1912. Bodies were pilled up on the side street and left to rot, this is how Prizren earned it's nickname 'The Kingdom of Death'.

(njegos, 1 August 2014 16:51)

The Italians were allies of the Nazis? Wow, really? I never knew that. Thanks for stating the obvious.

Mihailovic worked with both the Nazis and the Italians. Mihailovic received weapons from the Nazis to fight the Partisans and he held secret meetings with Nazi officers too. Fact!

Anything you don’t like, you just write off as "propaganda" which is rather pathetic. Is that the best you can come up with?

And I've not said that all Chetniks were collaborators, some did a lot of good in the War Effort but others didn't; which brings me back to my original point, people of all ethnicities in the Balkans worked with the Nazis and people of all ethnicities in the Balkans fought against the Nazis.

You’re the racist one who was labelling entire ethnicities.

(Billy Why,Texas, 1 August 2014 22:25)

Hi Billy Boy, long time no see.

Stay off that Bourbon before you end up writing more stupid comments.

Oh, and say hi to your friend the Lord Jesus for me please.

Albanian nationalist leaders were in shock. Stavro Skendi says that: "the problem which the patriots had to face was very grave: the fate of their country." (The Albanian National Awakening, p. 451). He emphasizes that the situation was even more "entangled" by the lack of central authority that all Albanians would recognize, and by the disruption of communications. "Albanians fought on the side of Turkey because they believed that by doing so they would best safeguard their own territory" (Ibid., p. 452). Now they were seeing Montenegro besieging Skadar in the north, the Serbian forces occupying the heart of Albania, and Greeks marching to Janina. They were witnessing what they had always feared most: the "dismemberment of Albania." Top leaders among Albanian nationalists (Ismail Kemal, Faik Konitza, Fan Noli, and others) were caught unprepared for the Turkish defeat. Overnight all Albanian eyes turned toward Vienna, the only possible savior by virtue of the diplomatic and military power it could wield. Vienna became the mecca for Albanian nationalists, and Sami Bey Frasheri in 1913 published (in Vienna and Leipzig) the German translation of his book, Was war Albanien, was ist es, was wird es werden?

I suppose he's a liar too.
(njegos, 1 August 2014 23:30)

Yes he is. Fighting against Serbia and Greece didn't necessarily mean we were fighting to protect Turkey. We were fighting to protect our lands from being grabbed by Serbia and Greece.

I have a history degree. I woud recieve higher marks for using Primary Sources from the period. (Ian, UK, 30 July 2014 18:09)

Very funny ! So in return I present you a joke on my behalf.

One poor man had no sheep for the Corban Bayram but someone gave him and advice to halal the only chicken the man had and assured him that Allah will present him 10 sheep. So he did and invited people for the holiday. That night he could not fall asleep and several times went into his yard to see if the sheep were already there. In the morning he also went out and saw the sheep. He was happy before he brought them to his yard because when he counted them he found that there were only 8 of them available. Moreover his neighbor came to him and asked if the man saw the neighbor’s 8 sheep. The man was very upset and so he told his neighbor GO HOME BECAUSE I AM MISSING TWO SHEEP BY MYSELF …

Now that we are quit please Ian before you have a certificate from a psychiatrist never tell anyone that you are historian or you are Paul McCartney or Mother Theresa. Because people around know who you are … Thank you !

From J: "Keep in mind that back then Serbia claimed Albania was Serbia's heart, it was "Old Serbia". In 1912 Serbia committed atrocities all the way down to Durres, when it was trying to claim it as a Serb territory, just days before we declared our independence."

J - You are delusional. You've been listening to your grandfather's propaganda for far too long. I've been Serbian all my life, and I've never heard of Albania being 'Serbia's heart.' I have heard Albanians on this board, however, claiming that parts of Montenegro, Greece, Macedonia & Serbia are historic Albanian lands, aka Greater Albania. I've even heard some of your brethren claim that parts of Croatia are Albanian also because Ilyrians once occupied the area.

Albania wasn't even a country until 1912. The Albanians lost the Balkan Wars as allies of the Central Powers.

It's interesting how you guys claim an Albanian presence throughout the Balkans from the beginning of time, yet there is almost no evidence of Albanian culture anywhere with the exception of Albania. But then again, when you embrace every occupier that has crossed your path, you forfeit your culture and accept theirs. That is why there are Muslim Albanians, Catholic Albanians and Orthodox Albanians. You guys are famous for taking the easy way out when faced with adversity. What religion did your ancestors convert to J?

From Ian: "The Nazis did try and kill/ arrest him. Mihailovic made friends with the fascist Italians and Hitler had to write to Mussolini to tell him that he didn't approve of this collaboration."

Ian - The Italians weren't the Nazis. You said that Mihailovich collaborated with Hitler and the Nazis. You're backpedalling Ian. Weak!

The truth is that although the Italians were aligned with the Nazis, they were appalled by the barbarity of the Nazis and even more with the savagery of the Croatian Ustasha. The Italians were humane and treated the Serbs very well for the most part. How do I know this? I have spoken firsthand to Serb Chetniks from Montenegro who operated within Hitler's Italian occupied zone. I have also spoken to many who were in British-run displaced persons camps in Italy after the war. Just as I've spoken to some of the downed US airmen who were saved by Mihailovich's Chetniks and their families. I've also spoken to Yugoslav Partizans who took part in the civil war against the Chetnks. Who again have you ever spoken to who had firsthand knowledge of what went on in WWII Yugoslavia? Instead, you've fallen for communist propaganda because of your anti-Serb bias. Here's another bit of reading for you: Look up some of the writings from Milovan Djilas. He was a high-ranking Monetnegrin communist during the war, but became one of their biggest critics after the war after seeing the duplitous way that Tito operated. Happy reading.

Don't try me on history because I will win everytime.
(Ian, UK, 31 July 2014 10:57)

If your teachers rode their donkeys to and from school and made you pizza for lunch, then you might
could be an Albanian and win every time.

If NATO is bombing your enemy while you are robbing graves and churches, harvesting human organs, beating on the old and the feeble, and when chased hiding under your women's skirts, then you might could be an Albanian and win every time.

Here's a few more fun ones:

If when the good Lord was pouring brains there was an earthquake, you might could be an Albanian.

If I saw you walking down the street and you said to me, "Heljo Mister", then you might could be an Albanian.

These two here are my favorites:
If you're going to the airport to pick up your family with a string of donkeys, then you might could be an Albanian with car troubles.

If your mama don't dance and your daddy don't rock-n-roll, then you might could be an Albanian or Bedouin.

From Ian: "I didn't even realise there were Central Powers in the Balkan Wars."

Ian, surely a scholar such as yourself knows that The Ottoman Empire, which your beloved Albanians were a part of and fought for against the Serbs during the Balkan Wars, were also a part of the Central Powers. Although the Central Powers is a term used to describe those countries who opposed the Allies during WWI, the fact remains those countries and entities existed long before WWI.

Nice try Ian. But if you want to split hairs about accuracy, please substantiate your absurd statement that every Albanian in Prizerin had their upper lip and nose cut off by Serbs. Please give me some credible evidence. Your hatred of the Serbs is well known on this board, but insane unsubstantiated comments like that completely destroy your credibility.

The institution that awarded you a history degree should have its accredidation revoked. You are a joke!

BTW, how are you coming along on the reading assingment I gave you?

From Ian: "Hitler himself was aware of negotiations with Mihailovic,"

Please Ian, tell me if Mihailovich collaborated with the Nazis, why did Hitler place a $100K bounty on his head? With all of this collaboration and interface with the Nazis, don't you think one of them would have killed Mihailovich to collect the money? Yet another absurd comment that you have failed to support. It doesn't pass the common sense test, like most of what you say.

And please, I am waiting for justification of your statement that EVERY Albanian in Prezrin had their upper lip and nose cut off by Serbs.

Why don't you stick to wearing kilts and playing the bagpipes instead of quoting about the WWII Yugoslavia from communist written history books.

j - You called me liar when I said that many Albanians fought alongside Turks in the Balkan Wars. Well her are words from one of your own:

Albanian nationalist leaders were in shock. Stavro Skendi says that: "the problem which the patriots had to face was very grave: the fate of their country." (The Albanian National Awakening, p. 451). He emphasizes that the situation was even more "entangled" by the lack of central authority that all Albanians would recognize, and by the disruption of communications. "Albanians fought on the side of Turkey because they believed that by doing so they would best safeguard their own territory" (Ibid., p. 452). Now they were seeing Montenegro besieging Skadar in the north, the Serbian forces occupying the heart of Albania, and Greeks marching to Janina. They were witnessing what they had always feared most: the "dismemberment of Albania." Top leaders among Albanian nationalists (Ismail Kemal, Faik Konitza, Fan Noli, and others) were caught unprepared for the Turkish defeat. Overnight all Albanian eyes turned toward Vienna, the only possible savior by virtue of the diplomatic and military power it could wield. Vienna became the mecca for Albanian nationalists, and Sami Bey Frasheri in 1913 published (in Vienna and Leipzig) the German translation of his book, Was war Albanien, was ist es, was wird es werden?

I suppose he's a liar too.

From njegos: "Ian, so let me get this straight: Hitler was willing to pay a $100K bounty to anyone who could deliver Mihailovich dead, and then Mihailovich voluntarily met with the same people who were trying to kill him, right? You are delusional!"

Yes, Mihailovic fought with and collaborated with pretty much everyone, no-one trusted him whether it be the Nazis, the Partisans, the Italians or the Allies. Mihailovic did fight the Nazis, but Mihailovic and the Nazis had a mutual enemy, the Communist Partisans. This is why the Nazis gave Mihailovic weapons upon request to fight the Partisans and in return Mihailovic promised not to attack Nazi communication lines in the Western Balkans. And in August 1944, Mihailovic returned to the Nazis one again as their mutual enemy the Communist Red Army was approaching.

"Here's the glaring difference between the ethnic groups that you refer to: The Croatians, Albanians & Muslims embraced the Nazis from day 1 and willingly supported their policy of systematic killing."

Point proven, you've just labelled an entire ethnic groups again. What about the Croats and Bosniaks who opposed fascism and fought for the Partisans and to a lesser extent the Chetniks?

What about the Albanians who fought for the Communist National Liberation Movement, the Royalist Legality Movement and Balli Kombëtar? All these groups fought the Nazis/ fascist Italians and Albanians.

This is why you shouldn't label entire ethnic groups.

Why don't you say hi to Him yourself?

(Tried by fire, 3 August 2014 07:36)

Because he is dead. What sort of an idiot do you think I am? I'm not going to say hi to a dead person. Also there is no real proof that he existed in the first place.

I'm not stupid enough to say hi to a dead person who may not have existed in the first place. What sort of a moron would do that?

From Ian: "...Mihailovic fought with and collaborated with pretty much everyone."

Again, you fail to explain why no one, Nazi or otherwise, killed Mihailovich to collect the $100K bounty from Hitler. Surely this couldn't have been too hard to do if he was collaborating and meeting so closely with Hitler and the Nazis as you repeatedly mention. Hell, $100K today is a lot of money. Back then it was even more. Your arguement has holes!

From Ian: "...you've just labelled an entire ethnic groups again. What about the Croats and Bosniaks who opposed fascism and fought for the Partisans and to a lesser extent the Chetniks?"

The Croats & Muslims (there were no Bosniaks during WWII Mr. History major - the term came about during the war of the 1990s, ha,ha) either fought on the side of the fascists or the communists. Thousands and thousands of Croat Ustasha deserted and joined the Partisans toward the end of the war when it was evident that they were on the losing side. In my book there wasn't much difference between the two groups. Both were totalitarian regimes that oppressed the masses and disallowed the freedoms that many in the west take for granted.

As for the Albanians, the vast majority fought on the side of the fascists. You would be hard pressed to find an Albanian that claimed they were a part of the Partizans today. According to today's Albanians, this was the Serb-led regime that oppressed Albanians for decades. Plain and simple facts.

From J: "Yes he is. (lying) Fighting against Serbia and Greece didn't necessarily mean we were fighting to protect Turkey. We were fighting to protect our lands from being grabbed by Serbia and Greece."

Thanks for clearing that up for me J. Since you refute an Albanian historian and say he is lying, I guess we should all just believe you, right? LOL.

And please expound on the term "Albanian lands" as you continually refer to. Does mean that anywhere Albanians live are considered Albanian lands? Funny how you guys love to use the term Greater Serbia pejoratively, yet it is politically correct for you to espouse a Greater Albania. Please explain. Your elected leaders have even done so. Albanian lands, according to you guys, includes large parts of Montenegro, Macedonia and Greece. Some Albanians even include Croatia. Did I miss any?

I find this amusing in that Albania wasn't even a country untry until 1912 and before that Albanians lived in parts of the Kingdoms of Serbia & Montenegro, the Ottoman Empire and Greece. Throughout history Albanians didn't have the wherewithall to develop your own culture and identity in these areas, yet all of a sudden, these are Albanian lands that should be returned. A common arguement of the Albanians, albeit a weak one, is that you are descendants of the Ilyrians. Why then do you call yourselves Albanians? No evidence of a linkeage between the ancient Ilyrians and today's Albanians exists. Maybe your buddy Ian can help you ansewr.

From Peace: "...being orthodox has nothing got to do with being a serb."

So I guess the Muslims of Bosnia, the majority of whom were Orthodox christian Serbs before converting to Islam centuries ago, are no different than the Orthodox Serbs of today's Bosnia, right Peace? Your comment is idiodic. Religion is the primary differentiator between the two groups. Why don't you try and call a Muslim Bosniak a Serb or visa versa and see what happens to you. You are a joke!

More idiotic comments from Peace: "...serbs were just slavic barbarians that entered the balkans in the past..." "In kosovo, the only valuable serbian monuments are bunch of churches, no old cities, not fortresses, nothing."

What a very thoughtful and intelligent comment. If you knew anything about Serbian history, which you obviously don't, you would know that Serbian society centered around the church. For over 500 years, the Ottomans tried to separate Serbs from orthodoxy and failed. The communists tried as well, and failed. For centuries, Serb society in Montenegro was a theocracy where the military, governmental and clergy were run by bishops.

...and then he says: "Now, I dont have anything against serbs..."

Yeah Peace, you don't have anything against Serbs.

More from the Balkan expert, Peace: "Security risks? Chetniks, mafiosi are security risks, not a country made mostly out of teens."

You forgot Hasim Thaci and his KLA (Drenica Group) who are being investigated for murder, torture and other war crimes.

Great research Peace...not.

Oh, and say hi to your friend the Lord Jesus for me please.
(Ian, UK, 2 August 2014 11:30)

Why don't you say hi to Him yourself? He's right there, deep in your heart. Just get real quiet and still and you'll find Him.
Remember now, "when life gets too hard to stand--kneel", but you're probably still too untried to truly understand that.

Wait, njegos is discussing history?

If we take history into account, serbia has had a remarkable history of genocide. Masacres in Prizren, Scodar and wherever the serbian army went.
But whatever, what matters actually is that serbs were just slavic barbarians that entered the balkans in the past, your socalled "History and cultural heritage" is nothing more than being pawns of Russia and the orthodox church.
In kosovo, the only valuable serbian monuments are bunch of churches, no old cities, not fortresses, nothing.

You know, even the so called orthoox church is nothing more than heritage from the Byzantine empire. So being orthodox has nothing got to do with being a serb.

Now, I dont have anything against serbs who are reasonable and there were many friendly serbs in kosovo, but as for your religious nationalist albanophobes, be "greatful", it was your attitude that destroyed yugoslavia and by extension parts of serbia.

And as for the article, Kosovo army would only be a threat to serbia if it tries to go on the offensive in the future, nothing more.

And to quote Putin:
"Any people has a right to self-determination"

Oh, look, your favorite guy said this. I know this is quuoting someone out of context but hey, isnt this the level of you guys here?
If I were a serb, I would worry more about my wellbeing than some worthless former province in the south.

Security risks? Chetniks, mafiosi are security risks, not a country made mostly out of teens.

Wait, njegos is discussing history?

If we take history into account, serbia has had a remarkable history of genocide. Masacres in Prizren, Scodar and wherever the serbian army went.
But whatever, what matters actually is that serbs were just slavic barbarians that entered the balkans in the past, your socalled "History and cultural heritage" is nothing more than being pawns of Russia and the orthodox church.
In kosovo, the only valuable serbian monuments are bunch of churches, no old cities, not fortresses, nothing.

You know, even the so called orthoox church is nothing more than heritage from the Byzantine empire. So being orthodox has nothing got to do with being a serb.

Now, I dont have anything against serbs who are reasonable and there were many friendly serbs in kosovo, but as for your religious nationalist albanophobes, be "greatful", it was your attitude that destroyed yugoslavia and by extension parts of serbia.

And as for the article, Kosovo army would only be a threat to serbia if it tries to go on the offensive in the future, nothing more.

And to quote Putin:
"Any people has a right to self-determination"

Oh, look, your favorite guy said this. I know this is quuoting someone out of context but hey, isnt this the level of you guys here?
If I were a serb, I would worry more about my wellbeing than some worthless former province in the south.

Security risks? Chetniks, mafiosi are security risks, not a country made mostly out of teens.

Kosovo army aka donkey brigade. .what a joke

What...and you think that we will sit by and become another Palestine. I don't think so. We will expand our borders into Presevo and Northern Macedonia. We will develop a mordern and professional army like the Croats currently have and push the remaining Serbs to the outskirts of Nis. Who would even try to stop such a force. Be my guest.

To a place like Kosovo a proper army is a luxury that it can ill afford to establish or maintain. Kosovo does not have the funds to do either as it is battling with a real level of unemployment of 70% plus and no prospects of reducing this number of people seeking work. Its main source of income is EU funds which are quickly diminishing as Brussels battles it own economic hydra. When you have the largest employer, the Government, sourcing its funds from outside then Kosovo will get that army if EU citizens work until 80 before getting a pension.
The best Pristina can do is declare the local constabulary an army and that is all. It’s all fantasy.

One would think Serbian army full of war criminals is a threat to Kosovo and region.

According to him, Kosovo and Metohija remains the country's biggest security threat.

Can this Serbian DM explain why Kosova is a threat to Serbia!?
On the contrary, Serbia is a threat to the region. But, if another wrong Slobo move happens,Serbia will cease to exist.

What we do internally is none of Serbia's business. We want our own Army, and by god we will have our Army. Deal with it even better take it to ICJ make us all laugh again.

Gasic, it wouldn't be as destabilizing for the region then Serbia was, and has been! It was Serbia & her armed forces that promoted and caused a complete destabilization to the entire Southern European area for 20+ years with her barbaric wars of aggression against her neighboring countries, and in a lot of ways continues to destabilize the region today! As for Kosova having a army, Kosova thru-out the pages of history has always maintained a army, its entire population is born into this life, into this world a army! Yes, we've probably lacked to a large extent the weapons of many armies, but what we lacked in weapons we have made up in will power & courage, breaking down our enemies slowly, always being a dagger in her side, bleeding her little by little, refusing to kneel and bow before any enemy, including little Serb nobody's! Now, we will modernize our armed force, having the same capabilities of every army in the region, no more being the people with their backs on the floor! Yes, a evenly balanced field of soldiers, at the ready to do battle yet again against all potential
barbaric-aggressors that may still exist, hiding behind the shadows!

(Bam Bam, 28 July 2014 11:37)

Every person who is concerned about the Balkans needs to take heed to bam bam here. He is dead serious and also deadly delusional about the capacity of this hypothetical donkey army. But here's the best part, the wild rabid Albanian ultra nationalists have convinced themselves that THEY won a war in the 90s and that is the reason they are occupying Serbia's holy land.

So you know, never mind that their airforce was NATO, the strongest military alliance on the planet.. no THEY won. So now they will try to take territory of even more sovereign countries-Greece, Montenegro and FYR Macedonia. This is the greatest thing that could have ever happened for all those who believe in Kosovo-Metohija.

The formation of an Albanian army in Pristina, the rise of Albanian ultra nationalists in Albania and the continued calls for a Greater Albania MUST be supported and financed by Serbia if need be. Why? NATO can't possibly justify supporting separatist terrorism in 4 UN sovereign recognized countries, and there is no way they can win without NATO.

Because what's the rule of thumb? When NATO is not there, the Albanians lose. In FYR Macedonia, in Presevo, in Mitrovica 2011 when ROSU terrorists were sent packing back to their drug induced stronghold of Pristina... I can go on and on. No NATO, no nothing.

So yes, PLEASE... bring on the "Kosovo army", bring on "natural Albania" and I can only pray to God that Bam Bam gets his way.

The best Pristina can do is declare the local constabulary an army and that is all. It’s all fantasy.
(sj, 28 July 2014 11:45)

And, you still believe Miloshevic is alive and will do another venture in Kosova!? hahahahahaha

Gasic? Isn't that serbianised version of the Albanian surname 'Gashi'?
(adrian kola, 28 July 2014 11:33)

There is defiantly some Gashi blood running thru his veins! Shucks, his great grandfather was probably from the Gashi line, and believe you me, many of these Chetniks have some Albanian blood running thru their veins! I've had many older uncles and relatives that had relationships with Serbian woman... Believe me when I tell you, Serbian woman don't have a problem with us Albanians one bit, it's their males that have some kind of genetic malfunction?

@bam bam
Stop the silly nonsense, finish your chocolate milk and go to sleep, it's past your bedtime, you need lots of rest if your gonna wake up early and watch cartoons

Bam Bam,

Always calling for more bloodshed in the Balkans ... sick.

The great warrior LOL! Your dumb threats and bravado remind me of an immature hormonal teenager shooting his mouth off for attention.

Gasic, it wouldn't be as destabilizing for the region then Serbia was, and has been! It was Serbia & her armed forces that promoted and caused a complete destabilization to the entire Southern European area for 20+ years with her barbaric wars of aggression against her neighboring countries, and in a lot of ways continues to destabilize the region today! As for Kosova having a army, Kosova thru-out the pages of history has always maintained a army, its entire population is born into this life, into this world a army! Yes, we've probably lacked to a large extent the weapons of many armies, but what we lacked in weapons we have made up in will power & courage, breaking down our enemies slowly, always being a dagger in her side, bleeding her little by little, refusing to kneel and bow before any enemy, including little Serb nobody's! Now, we will modernize our armed force, having the same capabilities of every army in the region, no more being the people with their backs on the floor! Yes, a evenly balanced field of soldiers, at the ready to do battle yet again against all potential
barbaric-aggressors that may still exist, hiding behind the shadows!
(321Timesup!, 28 July 2014 12:29)
# Comment link


321 timesup, you are great story teller.

From 321timesup: "...As for Kosova having a army, Kosova thru-out the pages of history has always maintained a army, its entire population is born into this life, into this world a army!... what we lacked in weapons we have made up in will power & courage, breaking down our enemies slowly,...refusing to kneel and bow before any enemy,...Now, we will modernize our armed force, having the same capabilities of every army in the region, no more being the people with their backs on the floor! Yes, a evenly balanced field of soldiers, at the ready to do battle yet again against all potential barbaric-aggressors that may still exist, hiding behind the shadows!"

Hey 321, it's time for you to come back to the real world. This image of Albanians being a fierce fighting force is a joke! The army that you refer to throughout Kosovo's history was the Serbian army under Czar Dusan & Czar Lazar. And your comment about Albanians refusing to kneel before any enemy is pure fiction. Please explain how the majority of Albanians and nearly 100% of those living in Kosovo became Muslim? The answer is they knelt before the Ottomans and converted to Islam to lead easier lives. When confronted with life and death struggles throughout history Albanians have chosen the easy way out. That is why today's Kosovo is the heroine and drug-running capital of Europe. Why choose education and hard work when the criminal life is much easier? Nice history you have there 321.

Let's not give any credibility to a hypothetical army for a "state" that can barely function on its own. I'd like to think that VS would be more than capable of handling itself. Albania has an army no one has ever paid attention to. I think "Kosova" would fare even less once the international community compromises its formation down to what would be little more than a bunch of conscripts stealing timber and carjacking Renaults.

ARI, you have the mentality of a 5 year old
(rocky, 28 July 2014 16:45)

This comment coming from someone with the maturity and intellect of a three year old.

Gasic? Isn't that serbianised version of the Albanian surname 'Gashi'?

As the Cold War showed so well with Russia and the US, the only way to have long lasting peace with little Russia is balance of power. So Kosovo will have its army.

We will expand our borders into Presevo and Northern Macedonia. We will develop a mordern and professional army like the Croats currently have and push the remaining Serbs to the outskirts of Nis. Who would even try to stop such a force. Be my guest.
(Bam Bam, 28 July 2014 11:37)

I see you decided to be Albanian today.

And, you still believe Miloshevic is alive and will do another venture in Kosova!? hahahahahaha
(the truth, 28 July 2014 12:53)

No, that's what Albanians think.

Granted Ari, that we don't have an army, but Why were you a staunch supporter of so called ' Yellow House" fantasy ? If our army rides donkeys, how in the world we can perform organ transplant surgeries in a house
(the truth, 28 July 2014 20:12)

Because the victims of the organ harvesting operation carried out by Albanian terrorist militias were the remaining civilians that stayed in Kosovo-Metohija after the war. I say stayed because hundreds of thousands of Serbs from Kosovo-Metohija were cleansed during the war.

They were not soldiers that were captured, but civilians, usually children because of the high value of their organs. Children who were outnumbered by wild extremists that were protected by NATO.

How is this not clear? Militarily, you could not defeat Serbia anywhere. Adem Jashiri tried and he failed. NATO can (obviously), you can't. Only unarmed civilians.

As the Cold War showed so well with Russia and the US, the only way to have long lasting peace with little Russia is balance of power. So Kosovo will have its army.
(Reader, 28 July 2014 15:50)
================================
The ONLY way you could fight Serbia is if NATO decided to fight for you.
Your army could only be used against the poor mistreated Serbs and other minorities within Kosovo. Even then you would get a fight back.

(Ian, UK, 29 July 2014 12:40)

Obviously sir, you are in a desperate need of a history lesson. 50, 000 Serbs were ethnically cleansed from Pristina alone. But I'll let you educate yourself and wont waste my time explaining everyhwere else Serbs were cleansed.

Serbs fear to death Kosovo Army - don't worry they will be there very soon heavy armed and protecting its citizens - this guy can cry much as he wants fearing threat of the region.
(Cleaned, 29 July 2014 15:53)

Fear what? In 2011, the closest thing to a "kosovo army" (ROSU terror squads) came to Mitrovica to impose its will on the citizens there and they were chased out..... by civilians!

No Serbian army, no nothing. Just 40, 000 concentrated Serbs were not odds that you liked. You prefer 10 to 1 and the 1 being a teenage girl or a elder. You lose every time NATO isn't bombing for you. Rule of thumb. Presevo, FYR Macedonia, Mitrovica 2011... on and on and on.

When there is a threat the proper thing is to eliminate it!

I wish one day I could get to the root of Ian, Uk's sick mental complexes. To come on a Serbian website, and spew such lies that not even admitted Albanian posters have spewed, makes me really want to learn about his history and figure out how he got to this point.

Normal Westerners don't just do this. Regular people in North America and Western Europe by and large do not have a strong opinion on the Balkans. When they do, they almost never are rabid Albanian ultra nationalists...unless of course they are Albanian.

If not, then idk where this mans vehement hatred towards Serbs comes from to make it a point to come on here a Serbian website and vent his hatred. Calling Serbs "colonialists" in land they have lived in for over a thousand years. With at the very least, the history to prove it based on the oldest monuments standing in that land. This coming from a Brit which practically invented colonialism.

Either this is Ians way of dealing with the fact that his country may break apart internally, but most likely its because the UK almost 100% will itself break apart from his beloved EUSSR. I really wish I could just give you a hug and let you air out all your sick deranged hatred until it no longer eats you inside to speak such crocks of bls.

I have a history degree. I woud recieve higher marks for using Primary Sources from the period. (Ian, UK, 30 July 2014 18:09)

Very funny ! So in return I present you a joke on my behalf.

One poor man had no sheep for the Corban Bayram but someone gave him and advice to halal the only chicken the man had and assured him that Allah will present him 10 sheep. So he did and invited people for the holiday. That night he could not fall asleep and several times went into his yard to see if the sheep were already there. In the morning he also went out and saw the sheep. He was happy before he brought them to his yard because when he counted them he found that there were only 8 of them available. Moreover his neighbor came to him and asked if the man saw the neighbor’s 8 sheep. The man was very upset and so he told his neighbor GO HOME BECAUSE I AM MISSING TWO SHEEP BY MYSELF …

Now that we are quit please Ian before you have a certificate from a psychiatrist never tell anyone that you are historian or you are Paul McCartney or Mother Theresa. Because people around know who you are … Thank you !

From Ian: "I have a history degree.

I woud recieve higher marks for using Primary Sources from the period"

Ian - You should give your degree back. Here's a few more sources for you (all British, by the way):

- Lord Byron Foundation for Balkan Studies
- Lord Tennyson who wrote 3 poems about the bravery of the Montenegrin Serbs
- Rebecca West's book: Black Lamb & Grey Falcon which details the Serb courage in standing up to Hitler and the Axis while everyone else in the region, your Albanians included, joined the Axis.

I could give you more but I don't want to overload the few braincells that you have. Happy reading!

So yes, PLEASE... bring on the "Kosovo army", bring on "natural Albania" and I can only pray to God that Bam Bam gets his way.
(Ari Gold, 28 July 2014 15:12)

ARI, you have the mentality of a 5 year old, what makes you think we are going to take a aggressive stance towards our neighbors, we will leave the "barbaric ultra nationalistic aggressive policies to your Serbia" as it has a more natural fitting! As for us Albanians, time & democracy are clearly on are side in regards to the re-creation of natural Albania! Let me ask you Ari, why have a piece of Macedonia at this particular time in history, when lets say in 35-50 years the overwhelming majority population there will be Albanian? I know you would like us Albanians to jump the gun, however that is a Serbian trait, In some instances, We will just have to subdue our cravings for our tiny piece of cake at this moment in time, staying hungry, our stomachs growling knowing very well that at a future point in history we will have the entire table of desserts completely to ourselves! I for one am willing to wait, I am in no rush to have our big guns fielded yet, we will just let our guns in our pants do their work, while enjoying ourselves! And by the way, I would think its past your bedtime about now!!!

Kosovo albanian army? lol :-)
Please, let them have their mighty and glorious Illyrian army :-)
Kosovo albanians have not only proved themselves to be totally incompetent, they also cowards by nature!
Even their "Special" police, ROSU have proved to be incompetent, even against unarmed civilians!
So please, let these monkeys have their amazing army, and just let them try to invade Serbia, Macedonia or Greece.
This time there will be no excuses for their inhalation!

From Ian: "There are now 300,000 K-Albanians in Germany, 200,000 K-Albanians in Switzerland and 150,000 Kosovo born Albanians in Macedonia due to the oppression the Albanians received in Kosovo from the late 1980s to 1999. And don't forget that at one point in the Kosovo War, over a million Albanians were forced to flee Kosovo."

Ian, your fantasy land comments are quite comical. Every Albanian in Prizren had their nose and upper lip cut off, eh? If you're going to make such ridiculous claims, please provide your sources.

And regarding your above comments about the number of Albanians in the mentioned European countries, you failed to mention that in each of these countries Albanians make up the largest criminal organizations in their new respective homes. You see, K-Albanians fled to these countries because there were already large Albanian populations there. And in each of these countries, Albanian criminal gangs were and are reeking havoc. The criminals from Kosovo were all too happy to join their brethren in other parts of Europe.

Ian, why don't you concentrate on whether or not Andy Murray will ever win another major tennis event as the pride of Scotland and leave the events in the Balkans to those who know and understand the history. Run along now.

From Ian: "You want evidence?

Ok, just have a read of the eye witness accounts of Edith Durham and Leon Trotsky who were actually there."

Ha,ha,ha! Are you serious? First you cite as your sources Edith Durham who was a known anti-Serb who referred to Serbs as 'vermin." She has been criticized and rebuked by other British intellectuals such as Rebecca West. Please, if you're going to cite sources, come up with soemone with at least a little bit of objectivity.

And if that wasn't bad enough you use Leon Trotsky as another source. Trotsky was a Marxist revolutionary and a radical leftest. He was responsible for establishing one of the most oppressive regimes known to man. And you put faith in what this nut case has said? Next you'll be citing Mao Zedong and Fidel Castro.

Way to go Ian, although I didn't think it was possible, you've now embarrased yourself to the point of losing all credibility in any serious discussion on world affairs. Too funny!

(The Count of Kosova, 28 July 2014 17:15)

Now who is going to pay for this army? EU citizens by working until 80? You are aware of that little thing called money.
When we finish with Ukraine Kosova is next – I suggest swimming lesson would be an advantage not only to wash for a chnage but save yourself from drowning in the Adriatic.

From Ian: "There are now 300,000 K-Albanians in Germany, 200,000 K-Albanians in Switzerland and 150,000 Kosovo born Albanians in Macedonia due to the oppression the Albanians received in Kosovo from the late 1980s to 1999. And don't forget that at one point in the Kosovo War, over a million Albanians were forced to flee Kosovo."

Ian, your fantasy land comments are quite comical. Every Albanian in Prizren had their nose and upper lip cut off, eh? If you're going to make such ridiculous claims, please provide your sources.

And regarding your above comments about the number of Albanians in the mentioned European countries, you failed to mention that in each of these countries Albanians make up the largest criminal organizations in their new respective homes. You see, K-Albanians fled to these countries because there were already large Albanian populations there. And in each of these countries, Albanian criminal gangs were and are reeking havoc. The criminals from Kosovo were all too happy to join their brethren in other parts of Europe.

Ian, why don't you concentrate on whether or not Andy Murray will ever win another major tennis event as the pride of Scotland and leave the events in the Balkans to those who know and understand the history. Run along now.

From Ian: "Have you any evidence to suggest they are lying?

Chopping off the nose and the uper lip was a practice well known with the Serbian army during the period, they would do it do captured Ottoman soldiers."

Ian - You made the statement that 'every' Albanian in the town of Prizren had their nose and upper lip cut off. Please provide evidence or some credible sources or refrain from making broad-brush blanket statements about an ethnic group that you obviously know little about.

A well-known practice of the Ottomans (to whom Albanians joined in droves) was to impale captured Serbs. Another was to cut their heads off and display them on steaks. Why don't you mention these practices Ian? Oh, that's right, that wouldn't fit your anti-Serb agenda now would it?

Ari Gold said, "I wish one day I could get to the root of Ian, Uk's sick mental complexes. To come on a Serbian website, and spew such lies that not even admitted Albanian posters have spewed, makes me really want to learn about his history and figure out how he got to this point."

Not too difficult to assess.
He is young and lacks experience therefore he is short on wisdom.
His misplaced arrogance, boastfulness, and rudeness is reflective of his youth and immaturity.
I doubt he was out of diapers in the 1990s.
He simply reads and then comes on B92 regurgitating the information from his questionable sources adding his own spin.

From J: "... The argument holds, Serbia did ethnically cleanse Albanian in the hundreds of thousands. There are documents, reports and even pictures. In 1999 we have a year of daily videos documenting the expulsion of Albanians. There are master plans by Serb governments on how to ethnically cleanse Albanians."

J - I would suggest you go back and read Ian's ridiculous claims about alleged Serb ethnic cleansing and atrocities of Albanians in 1912 - 13 & 1918 - 21. You conveniently jump to the 1990s. That is called deflection and obfuscation which is commonly used in a debate when one cannot support his/her position. Try to stick with the subject being discussed, as hard as that may be for you.

If you want to talk about the 1990s, please provide proper perspective. Albanians were driven from their homes in 1999 after NATO bombed the Serbs without a UN resolution. Milosevic brutally cracked down on the Albanians, driving many from their homes. I never denied that and I was never a fan of Milosevic and didn't agree with his tactics. But a large scale crackdown didn't occur until NATO bombed the Serbs. Your NATO airforce's illegal bombing precipitated Milosevic's illegal acts. Milosevic died in the Hague. Now go cry to Bill Clinton if you're looking for criminals.

Ari gold is right.serbia can defeat NATO with in minute.just have look Serbia Air Force ,mig11,mig 13 and half and many many more balloons from where they can throw nuclear bombs P

I say stayed because hundreds of thousands of Serbs from Kosovo-Metohija [sic] were cleansed during the war.
(Ari Gold, 29 July 2014 01:02)

Ari, cut the BS!

There were 194,190 Serbs in Kosovo in 1991 and there are 140,000+ Serbs in Kosovo currently.

There weren't hundreds of thousands of Serbs in Kosovo in the first place therefore it is impossible for "hundreds of thousands of Serbs" to be ethnically cleansed from Kosovo.

If you really want to look at ethnic cleansing in Kosovo, you have to go back to 1912-3 where up to 120,000 Albanians were massacred by the military during the "liberation" of Kosovo. Every Albanian in the town of Prizren had their nose and upper lip cut off. From 1918-1921 the Albanian population of Kosovo decreased from 1 Million to 440,000 whilst 65,000 Serb colonists settled in Kosovo. Yugoslavia signed a deal with Turkey in 1935 to deport 200,000 Albanians. A similar deal was signed in 1938 to deport a further 40,000 Albanians. This never materialised as WW2 got in the way. Tito thankfully abolished this sick government programme when he came to power.

There are now 300,000 K-Albanians in Germany, 200,000 K-Albanians in Switzerland and 150,000 Kosovo born Albanians in Macedonia due to the oppression the Albanians received in Kosovo from the late 1980s to 1999. And don't forget that at one point in the Kosovo War, over a million Albanians were forced to flee Kosovo.

(njegos, 29 July 2014 15:31)

Have you any evidence to suggest they are lying?

Chopping off the nose and the uper lip was a practice well known with the Serbian army during the period, they would do it do captured Ottoman soldiers.

From Ian: "I provided you with evidence.

There are some very disturbing photographs too."

Ian - You provided NO evidence - only outlandish statements from a controversial British writer who has been soundly criticized by her peers and a whacko Maxist leftist who helped build one of the most oppressive regimes in history.

If this were a research project and I were grading you, you would have failed miserably. But then again, I have a feeling you fail at most things in life.

(njegos, 30 July 2014 15:33)

I provided with you with reports/ accounts from people who were there during the period.

But you have disregarded them because one was a "controversial British writer" and the other was a "whacko Marxist leftist".

Edith Durham was a British traveller who travelled the Balkans during the period and was in Kosovo during the Balkan Wars. What makes you think she was lying? What reason would she have to make up this claim?

Trotsky was a Jewish Marxist and he was also a journalist for a newspaper who was based in Kosovo whilst reporting on the Balkan Wars. What reason would he have for making this up? He hated the Ottoman Empire. Responsibility for the USSR for being an "oppressive regime" lies with Stalin; Trotsky was only on the scene in the early days of the Soviet Union.

Leo Freundlich who was also from the period wrote in 1913 about Albanians having their noses cut off in Prizren. I suppose he is a liar too? He was another Jew who hated the Ottoman Empire.

Let me guess, Durham, Trotsky and Freundlich all got together and conspired against Serbian/ Montenegrin forces in Prizren and wrote the exact same lie about chopping off noses?

And I suppose it is also a coincidence that the Montenegrin Army closed off Prizren to foreigners to hide the atrocities once the city had been taken from the Ottoman Empire?

I'd rather believe Durham, Trotsky and Freundlich than you because they were actually there. You weren't!

If this were a research project and I were grading you, you would have failed miserably. But then again, I have a feeling you fail at most things in life.
(njegos, 30 July 2014 15:33)

I have a history degree.

I woud recieve higher marks for using Primary Sources from the period.

From Ian: "Don't try me on history because I will win everytime"

Ian - I have to catch my breath after laughing so hard at your above statement. Allow me to provide you with some ACTUAL facts:

- Draza Mihailovich was awarded the Legion of Merit Medal from President Truman posthumously for his Chetniks role in saving over 500 downed US airmen. This remains the largest rescue behind enemy lines in US military history.

- Hitler put a 100K bounty on Mihailovich's head, yet you claim he was a Nazi collaborator.

- Hitler ordered 100 Serbs killed for every German soldier killed and 50 killed for every one wounded.

- Serbs staged a coup after the gov't. signed a neutrality pact with Germany and chose to fight the Nazis.

- Belgrade was bombed mercilessly after the coup.

- Milan Nedic was implemented as a quisling leader by the Germans after the occupation of Belgrade. The overwhelming majority of Serbs were fighting the Nazis as Chetniks & Partizans.

- Your Albanians embraced the Nazis.

Finally, I have spoken to several of the downed US airmen and their families who were saved by the Chetniks. Have you? I would like to see you tell them face to face that Mihailovich were Nazi collaborators.

The Chetniks lost the war, therefore, the history books were written by the communists. They painted Chetniks as traitors. No-nothings like you believe it. Sometimes you have to dig deeper for the truth. But that takes work, something very foreign to you.

@Grobar 1:

Seriously?? Kosovar-Albanians utilize donkeys for military purposes?? I pretty much doubt it,in fact,KPS (Kosovar Police Service) and ROSU don't ride donkeys as a form of transportation. What's next?(even if it's slightly off topic)Is someone going to allege or claim that Albanian spouses sing Qenji Vogel (Little Lamb) to one another to assist them in falling asleep?? Get real! Why would they want to do a thing like that?? That is a lullabye song designed to assist young Albanian children even babies fall asleep not for adults nor older kids to assist them in falling asleep as far as I'm concerned.

How is this a threat to the region?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTpT4vcncAs

(njegos, 29 July 2014 13:35)

You want evidence?

Ok, just have a read of the eye witness accounts of Edith Durham and Leon Trotsky who were actually there.

Obviously sir, you are in a desperate need of a history lesson. 50, 000 Serbs were ethnically cleansed from Pristina alone. But I'll let you educate yourself and wont waste my time explaining everyhwere else Serbs were cleansed.
(Ari Gold, 29 July 2014 17:38)

I'm in desperate need of a history lesson? haha

Ari, the Serb population of Pristina before the war was 27,293. So please tell me how "50, 000 Serbs were ethnically cleansed from Pristina alone" because that is not mathematically possible.

In February 2000, OSCE/UNHCR estimated that the Serb population of Pristina was around 12,000.

Please don't make up false statistics. I know when you're lying. I on the other hand never lie. I don't need to unlike you.

From J: "Keep in mind that back then Serbia claimed Albania was Serbia's heart, it was "Old Serbia". In 1912 Serbia committed atrocities all the way down to Durres, when it was trying to claim it as a Serb territory, just days before we declared our independence."

J - You are delusional. You've been listening to your grandfather's propaganda for far too long. I've been Serbian all my life, and I've never heard of Albania being 'Serbia's heart.' I have heard Albanians on this board, however, claiming that parts of Montenegro, Greece, Macedonia & Serbia are historic Albanian lands, aka Greater Albania. I've even heard some of your brethren claim that parts of Croatia are Albanian also because Ilyrians once occupied the area.

Albania wasn't even a country until 1912. The Albanians lost the Balkan Wars as allies of the Central Powers.

It's interesting how you guys claim an Albanian presence throughout the Balkans from the beginning of time, yet there is almost no evidence of Albanian culture anywhere with the exception of Albania. But then again, when you embrace every occupier that has crossed your path, you forfeit your culture and accept theirs. That is why there are Muslim Albanians, Catholic Albanians and Orthodox Albanians. You guys are famous for taking the easy way out when faced with adversity. What religion did your ancestors convert to J?

The best Pristina can do is declare the local constabulary an army and that is all. It’s all fantasy.
(sj, 28 July 2014 11:45)

sj, rote, njegos and Ari Gold,

Well look who's back and on leave from the "30 Ruble Army". Isn't it time for Russia to give a cost of living increase to your meager salary.

They were not soldiers that were captured, but civilians, usually children because of the high value of their organs. Children who were outnumbered by wild extremists that were protected by NATO.

(Ari Gold, 29 July 2014 01:02)


Ari,

You must be getting desperate since you are now using further lies to support your argument. Even the biggest liars on the Serbian side have never said children's organs were being removed for sale.

So yes, PLEASE... bring on the "Kosovo army", bring on "natural Albania" and I can only pray to God that Bam Bam gets his way.
(Ari Gold, 28 July 2014 15:12)

Serbs fear to death Kosovo Army - don't worry they will be there very soon heavy armed and protecting its citizens - this guy can cry much as he wants fearing threat of the region.
Don't forget you toothless monkey. These still remaining in Kosovo they dying out any way - now not from "KLA and NATO terrorists" but naturally so nothing to fear the threat of the region or as I can hear people I. This forum praying one day they will come back to Kosovo and clean out from Albanians - hohohoho it's a joke you can dream about.

(njegos, 1 August 2014 16:51)

The Italians were allies of the Nazis? Wow, really? I never knew that. Thanks for stating the obvious.

Mihailovic worked with both the Nazis and the Italians. Mihailovic received weapons from the Nazis to fight the Partisans and he held secret meetings with Nazi officers too. Fact!

Anything you don’t like, you just write off as "propaganda" which is rather pathetic. Is that the best you can come up with?

And I've not said that all Chetniks were collaborators, some did a lot of good in the War Effort but others didn't; which brings me back to my original point, people of all ethnicities in the Balkans worked with the Nazis and people of all ethnicities in the Balkans fought against the Nazis.

You’re the racist one who was labelling entire ethnicities.

Maybe some of you that have the know should be speaking to the leaders of Serbia. Everyone here seems to know that a Army in Kosovo is either a joke or totally no match for the supreme military of Serbia and there is no way Kosovo can afford to staff and equip such an army. But your leaders say it would destabilize the entire region. They either do not know or they think that the Serbian military is not all it is cracked up to be.

(njegos, 29 July 2014 17:09)

I provided you with evidence.

There are some very disturbing photographs too.

From Ian: "Mihailovic worked with both the Nazis and the Italians. Mihailovic received weapons from the Nazis to fight the Partisans and he held secret meetings with Nazi officers too. Fact!"

Ian, so let me get this straight: Hitler was willing to pay a $100K bounty to anyone who could deliver Mihailovich dead, and then Mihailovich voluntarily met with the same people who were trying to kill him, right? You are delusional!


From Ian: "And I've not said that all Chetniks were collaborators, some did a lot of good in the War Effort but others didn't; which brings me back to my original point, people of all ethnicities in the Balkans worked with the Nazis and people of all ethnicities in the Balkans fought against the Nazis."

Here's the glaring difference between the ethnic groups that you refer to: The Croatians, Albanians & Muslims embraced the Nazis from day 1 and willingly supported their policy of systematic killing.

The Serbs formed the 1st guerilla resistance to the Nazis, the Chetniks. They fought for the return of the King and a constitutional monarchy. Were there rogue groups of Chetniks who collaborated? Yes, but it wasn't a stated policy of the organization like it was with these others. Big difference. Your weak attempt at trying to equate the wrongdoing of these groups falls far short of the mark.

(Billy Why,Texas, 1 August 2014 22:25)

Hi Billy Boy, long time no see.

Stay off that Bourbon before you end up writing more stupid comments.

Oh, and say hi to your friend the Lord Jesus for me please.

Who says all leaders of Serbia oppose a Kosovo army? It was president nikolic who said he supports a Kosovo army if it has a Serb regiment! With the strong support of Serbia Kosovo will have an army.

According to him, Kosovo and Metohija remains the country's biggest security threat.

-- I don't get the statement above. Everyday I read and see here on B92 from Serb leaders and Serb people how Serbia is the strongest, the best, the most advanced, the lions, the owners of the Balkans. How can such a country and such a people be threatened by an army that still doesn't exist? Seems your leaders and the Serb commenters here know their megalomanic claim are full of cow manure, and the country is a mess.

(njegos, 31 July 2014 15:37)

Yes Chetniks did save allied airmen and yes Mihailovic was awarded by the US after his death, I don't deny this at all. But it doesn't change the fact that Mihailovic took weapons from the Nazis to kill Partisans. It doesn't change the fact that he would negotiate in secret with the Nazis without the Yugoslav Government in Exile and his British allies knowing. It doesn't change the fact that Mihailovic agreed with the Nazis not to attack their communication lines. It doesn't change the fact that when he was running low on weapons and ammunition, he went running to the Nazis for more and they said no. It doesn't change the fact that he had is troops become 'legalised Chetniks' under Nazi General Nedic's command where they became employees of the fascist regime. It doesn't change the fact that he betrayed allied forces. The Nazis put a bounty on his head after he'd served his purpose for them. Mihailovic was more bothered about fighting Partisans rather than his Nazi friends. He was a Nazi collaborator who executed for his crimes.

And congratulations on meeting some allied Airmen saved by Chetniks. However just because you met some allied airmen who were saved by Chetniks doesn't change the fact that some Serbs collaborated with Nazis and other Axis forces.

Ian - The more you pound away at your computer keys, the more I understand the origins of your prospective. Tito would be very proud of you for espousing the communist party line as it relates to WWII Yugoslavia.

Might I suggest a book for your future reading: The Rape of Serbia by Michael Lees who was a British Liaison Officer assigned to the Chetniks in 1943 & 44. This is one of your own who was there on the ground during the war.

He explains that the British Secret Service was infiltrated with communist moles to spread propaganda of Chetnik collaboration. One tactic that proved very successful was for the Partizans to take credit for Chetnik military victories. Subversives within the British Secret Service convinced Churchill to abandon the Chetniks and support the communist Partizans. After the war, Churchill himself said that this was his biggest mistake during WWII. Churchill even tried to persuade Tito not to execute Mihailovich after his kangaroo cout trial but it was too late.

So let's see Ian, should one believe the first-hand account of a British Liaison Officier who was there on the ground and saw what occurred from the inside out, or you who gets his information from history books written by Tito and his regime? I think the choice is clear. You've been exposed as a fraud. There's more out there than the communist propaganda books that have poisoned your little brain.

From Ian: "I didn't even realise there were Central Powers in the Balkan Wars."

Ian, surely a scholar such as yourself knows that The Ottoman Empire, which your beloved Albanians were a part of and fought for against the Serbs during the Balkan Wars, were also a part of the Central Powers. Although the Central Powers is a term used to describe those countries who opposed the Allies during WWI, the fact remains those countries and entities existed long before WWI.

Nice try Ian. But if you want to split hairs about accuracy, please substantiate your absurd statement that every Albanian in Prizerin had their upper lip and nose cut off by Serbs. Please give me some credible evidence. Your hatred of the Serbs is well known on this board, but insane unsubstantiated comments like that completely destroy your credibility.

The institution that awarded you a history degree should have its accredidation revoked. You are a joke!

BTW, how are you coming along on the reading assingment I gave you?

From Ian: "Hitler himself was aware of negotiations with Mihailovic,"

Please Ian, tell me if Mihailovich collaborated with the Nazis, why did Hitler place a $100K bounty on his head? With all of this collaboration and interface with the Nazis, don't you think one of them would have killed Mihailovich to collect the money? Yet another absurd comment that you have failed to support. It doesn't pass the common sense test, like most of what you say.

And please, I am waiting for justification of your statement that EVERY Albanian in Prezrin had their upper lip and nose cut off by Serbs.

Why don't you stick to wearing kilts and playing the bagpipes instead of quoting about the WWII Yugoslavia from communist written history books.

Don't try me on history because I will win everytime.
(Ian, UK, 31 July 2014 10:57)

If your teachers rode their donkeys to and from school and made you pizza for lunch, then you might
could be an Albanian and win every time.

If NATO is bombing your enemy while you are robbing graves and churches, harvesting human organs, beating on the old and the feeble, and when chased hiding under your women's skirts, then you might could be an Albanian and win every time.

Here's a few more fun ones:

If when the good Lord was pouring brains there was an earthquake, you might could be an Albanian.

If I saw you walking down the street and you said to me, "Heljo Mister", then you might could be an Albanian.

These two here are my favorites:
If you're going to the airport to pick up your family with a string of donkeys, then you might could be an Albanian with car troubles.

If your mama don't dance and your daddy don't rock-n-roll, then you might could be an Albanian or Bedouin.

j - You called me liar when I said that many Albanians fought alongside Turks in the Balkan Wars. Well her are words from one of your own:

Albanian nationalist leaders were in shock. Stavro Skendi says that: "the problem which the patriots had to face was very grave: the fate of their country." (The Albanian National Awakening, p. 451). He emphasizes that the situation was even more "entangled" by the lack of central authority that all Albanians would recognize, and by the disruption of communications. "Albanians fought on the side of Turkey because they believed that by doing so they would best safeguard their own territory" (Ibid., p. 452). Now they were seeing Montenegro besieging Skadar in the north, the Serbian forces occupying the heart of Albania, and Greeks marching to Janina. They were witnessing what they had always feared most: the "dismemberment of Albania." Top leaders among Albanian nationalists (Ismail Kemal, Faik Konitza, Fan Noli, and others) were caught unprepared for the Turkish defeat. Overnight all Albanian eyes turned toward Vienna, the only possible savior by virtue of the diplomatic and military power it could wield. Vienna became the mecca for Albanian nationalists, and Sami Bey Frasheri in 1913 published (in Vienna and Leipzig) the German translation of his book, Was war Albanien, was ist es, was wird es werden?

I suppose he's a liar too.

From njegos: "Ian, so let me get this straight: Hitler was willing to pay a $100K bounty to anyone who could deliver Mihailovich dead, and then Mihailovich voluntarily met with the same people who were trying to kill him, right? You are delusional!"

Yes, Mihailovic fought with and collaborated with pretty much everyone, no-one trusted him whether it be the Nazis, the Partisans, the Italians or the Allies. Mihailovic did fight the Nazis, but Mihailovic and the Nazis had a mutual enemy, the Communist Partisans. This is why the Nazis gave Mihailovic weapons upon request to fight the Partisans and in return Mihailovic promised not to attack Nazi communication lines in the Western Balkans. And in August 1944, Mihailovic returned to the Nazis one again as their mutual enemy the Communist Red Army was approaching.

"Here's the glaring difference between the ethnic groups that you refer to: The Croatians, Albanians & Muslims embraced the Nazis from day 1 and willingly supported their policy of systematic killing."

Point proven, you've just labelled an entire ethnic groups again. What about the Croats and Bosniaks who opposed fascism and fought for the Partisans and to a lesser extent the Chetniks?

What about the Albanians who fought for the Communist National Liberation Movement, the Royalist Legality Movement and Balli Kombëtar? All these groups fought the Nazis/ fascist Italians and Albanians.

This is why you shouldn't label entire ethnic groups.

So yes, PLEASE... bring on the "Kosovo army", bring on "natural Albania" and I can only pray to God that Bam Bam gets his way.
(Ari Gold, 28 July 2014 15:12)

Granted Ari, that we don't have an army, but Why were you a staunch supporter of so called ' Yellow House" fantasy ? If our army rides donkeys, how in the world we can perform organ transplant surgeries in a house ,which is not fit for animals to live in it??? Please, an honest to god answer. Tomorrow at 10:30am watch Clint's report live.

Ha,ha,ha! Are you serious? First you cite as your sources Edith Durham who was a known anti-Serb who referred to Serbs as 'vermin." She has been criticized and rebuked by other British intellectuals such as Rebecca West. Please, if you're going to cite sources, come up with soemone with at least a little bit of objectivity.

And if that wasn't bad enough you use Leon Trotsky as another source. Trotsky was a Marxist revolutionary and a radical leftest. He was responsible for establishing one of the most oppressive regimes known to man. And you put faith in what this nut case has said? Next you'll be citing Mao Zedong and Fidel Castro.

Way to go Ian, although I didn't think it was possible, you've now embarrased yourself to the point of losing all credibility in any serious discussion on world affairs. Too funny!
(njegos, 29 July 2014 15:31)

njegos you are employing what are also known, as fallacies. You are evading the actual argument by attacking your opponent. That is called Argumentum ad hominem. Then you are also employing a false dilemma, that is you are holding two possible alternatives as the only possible options; never really going into the argument itself. The argument holds, Serbia did ethnically cleanse Albanian in the hundreds of thousands. There are documents, reports and even pictures. In 1999 we have a year of daily videos documenting the expulsion of Albanians. There are master plans by Serb governments on how to ethnically cleanse Albanians.

J - I would suggest you go back and read Ian's ridiculous claims about alleged Serb ethnic cleansing and atrocities of Albanians in 1912 - 13 & 1918 - 21. You conveniently jump to the 1990s. That is called deflection and obfuscation which is commonly used in a debate when one cannot support his/her position. Try to stick with the subject being discussed, as hard as that may be for you.

-- njegos, Albanians were also ethnically cleansed in 1912-13 and 1918-21. I mentioned 99 only to demonstrate the kind of documentation. For the earlier periods we have photographs, documentations, expulsion pacts between Turkey and the state of Serbia, testimonies from descendants and relatives of those that were ethnically cleansed and escaped to Albania. Even newspapers of that time, American and otherwise show this. Do you know for example that in central Albania there are towns whose inhabitants are descendant of Kosova Albanians that that were massively populated after they were ethnically cleansed in 1912-13 and 1918-21. Lastly, Serb ministers even laid out the expulsion master plans and this is published. Anyone can read it. Attrocities happened. Keep in mind that back then Serbia claimed Albania was Serbia's heart, it was "Old Serbia". In 1912 Serbia committed atrocities all the way down to Durres, when it was trying to claim it as a Serb territory, just days before we declared our independence. 1999 was only the last time Serbia ethnically cleansed us, not the first time.

(njegos, 30 July 2014 19:38)

What has any of that got to do with what I was saying about Prizren in 1912? You've gone off at a tangent and changed the subject because you were losing.

Ever heard of Godwin's Law? You have lost the argument for bringing up Hitler and the Nazis.

Anyway, since you've brought up Hitler and the Nazis, lets take a look at some more history. It is historical fact that Serbs worked and fought for the Nazis too, just like every other people in the Balkans. Here are just a few Serb examples in WW2:

1: Serbian State Guard
2: Serbian Volunteer Corps and Kosta Mušicki
3: Serbian Border Guard
4: Kosta Pecanac and his Black Chetniks
5: The normal Chetniks collaborated with everyone including the Germans, the Italians and the Ustaše and helped them fight Tito's Partisans. Here are just a few notable ones: Momcilo Ðujic, Jezdimir Dangic, Pavle Ðurišic, Petar Bacovic, Nikola Kalabic, Vojislav Lukacevic, Draža Mihailovic and Zaharije Ostojic ect all collaborated with Axis forces.

Then how can we forget Milan Nedic, Milan Acimovic, Dragomir Jovanovic, Lazo M. Kostic, Dimitrije Ljotic all politicians who collaborated with the Germans.

Sepp Jankowas an SS Officer and was Chairman of the Danube Swabian German Cultural Association.

Don't try me on history because I will win everytime.

Albania wasn't even a country until 1912. The Albanians lost the Balkan Wars as allies of the Central Powers.

(njegos, 31 July 2014 15:06)

I wish I was as good at history as you njegos. I didn't even realise there were Central Powers in the Balkan Wars.

I thought that in the First Balkan War it was the Ottoman Empire v Montenegro, Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria; and in the Second Balkan War it was Bulgaria v Montenegro, Greece, Serbia, Romania and the Ottoman Empire.

Please njegos tell me, tell me who these Central Powers were in the Balkan Wars which the Albanians were allies with haha!

From Ian: "The Nazis did try and kill/ arrest him. Mihailovic made friends with the fascist Italians and Hitler had to write to Mussolini to tell him that he didn't approve of this collaboration."

Ian - The Italians weren't the Nazis. You said that Mihailovich collaborated with Hitler and the Nazis. You're backpedalling Ian. Weak!

The truth is that although the Italians were aligned with the Nazis, they were appalled by the barbarity of the Nazis and even more with the savagery of the Croatian Ustasha. The Italians were humane and treated the Serbs very well for the most part. How do I know this? I have spoken firsthand to Serb Chetniks from Montenegro who operated within Hitler's Italian occupied zone. I have also spoken to many who were in British-run displaced persons camps in Italy after the war. Just as I've spoken to some of the downed US airmen who were saved by Mihailovich's Chetniks and their families. I've also spoken to Yugoslav Partizans who took part in the civil war against the Chetnks. Who again have you ever spoken to who had firsthand knowledge of what went on in WWII Yugoslavia? Instead, you've fallen for communist propaganda because of your anti-Serb bias. Here's another bit of reading for you: Look up some of the writings from Milovan Djilas. He was a high-ranking Monetnegrin communist during the war, but became one of their biggest critics after the war after seeing the duplitous way that Tito operated. Happy reading.

Albanian nationalist leaders were in shock. Stavro Skendi says that: "the problem which the patriots had to face was very grave: the fate of their country." (The Albanian National Awakening, p. 451). He emphasizes that the situation was even more "entangled" by the lack of central authority that all Albanians would recognize, and by the disruption of communications. "Albanians fought on the side of Turkey because they believed that by doing so they would best safeguard their own territory" (Ibid., p. 452). Now they were seeing Montenegro besieging Skadar in the north, the Serbian forces occupying the heart of Albania, and Greeks marching to Janina. They were witnessing what they had always feared most: the "dismemberment of Albania." Top leaders among Albanian nationalists (Ismail Kemal, Faik Konitza, Fan Noli, and others) were caught unprepared for the Turkish defeat. Overnight all Albanian eyes turned toward Vienna, the only possible savior by virtue of the diplomatic and military power it could wield. Vienna became the mecca for Albanian nationalists, and Sami Bey Frasheri in 1913 published (in Vienna and Leipzig) the German translation of his book, Was war Albanien, was ist es, was wird es werden?

I suppose he's a liar too.
(njegos, 1 August 2014 23:30)

Yes he is. Fighting against Serbia and Greece didn't necessarily mean we were fighting to protect Turkey. We were fighting to protect our lands from being grabbed by Serbia and Greece.

njegos, you continue to evade the argument and instead engage in logical fallacies. Just because you attack your opponent doesn't mean the argument is now all of a sudden invalid. Concentrate on the argument, not the opponent. Also, you again you are bringing in false dilemmas. You present your options as if they somehow they magically make the argument disappear. The argument still stands - Albanians were ethnically cleansed. Concentrate on this. No false dichotomies or red herrings needed. Vasa Cubrilovic, a Serb minister lays it all out for you, It's the expulsion master plan. Later Seselj also publishes his expulsion plan.

P.S Belgrade was declared the first Jew free capital in Europe. Albania had more Jews after the war than before the war. Now you tell me whose people did the most to help their Jewish communities. For an anti-axis country Serbia sure stayed and watched as its Jewish community was exterminated while in Albania this community grew. Before being this proud, next time learn a bit more.

I've been Serbian all my life, and I've never heard of Albania being 'Serbia's heart.' I have heard Albanians on this board, however, claiming that parts of Montenegro, Greece, Macedonia & Serbia are historic Albanian lands.

njegos- Too much traffic today so I'm tired to go and look. This claim was from Serb officials back when they were claiming Serbia's borders reached all the way to Durres. Today's borders were drawn by big powers and all your kings were cousins with their kings. We had no kings, we lost lands. Simple.

I've even heard some of your brethren claim that parts of Croatia

-There's stupid people everywhere.

It's interesting how you guys claim an Albanian presence throughout the Balkans from the beginning of time, yet there is almost no evidence of Albanian culture anywhere with the exception of Albania.

-Beginning of time is too long of a time, but we are there as evidence.

when you embrace every occupier that has crossed your path, you forfeit your culture and accept theirs.

- The culture is there. Epos, language, customs, songs etc. You gotta be willing to look.

That is why there are Muslim Albanians, Catholic Albanians and Orthodox Albanians.

- Religion does not define us, language and nationality does. So people change them as they wish.


You guys are famous for taking the easy way out when faced with adversity. What religion did your ancestors convert to J?

Atheist. Religions(all of them) are the easy way out.

(njegos, 31 July 2014 18:21)

I don't dispute that the Partisans made propaganda about the Chetniks, but it doesn't change the fact that Chetniks did collaborate with the Nazis and other Axis forces. Hitler himself was aware of negotiations with Mihailovic, Hitler personally rejected some of Mihailovic's proposals.

There were no Central Powers in the Balkan Wars, period! The egg is already on your face.

(njegos, 1 August 2014 13:43)

Source: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=R8d2409V9tEC&redir_esc=y

You can read up more on Mihailovic and Hitler on pages 161-5.

The Nazis did try and kill/ arrest him. Mihailovic made friends with the fascist Italians and Hitler had to write to Mussolini to tell him that he didn't approve of this collaboration. Source: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=43CbLU8FgFsC&redir_esc=y Pages 103-6

In August 1944 the pro-Nazi Serbian State Guard was placed under Mihailovic's command: Source: Same book pages 257–8

On 11 August 1944, Mihailovic met with Nazi Officers to increase collaborations as the Soviet Red Army invasion was imminent. Source: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yoCaAAAAIAAJ&redir_esc=y Page 342

I've already given you three lots of sources for the Prizren atrocities. But you think it is a credible argument to disregard them by saying one is "controversial British writer" and the other is a "leftist Marxist whacko". That pathetic argument wouldn't look very good in a history essay. Anyone marking such an essay would cringe if they read that.

(njegos, 1 August 2014 13:43)

I suppose a few Albanians could have been missed. People are naturally going to hide/ flee.

And I don't suppose they will have bothered chopping off the noses of the Albanians they killed; 400 civilians were killed in the first few days and 5,000 civilians were killed by November 1912. Bodies were pilled up on the side street and left to rot, this is how Prizren earned it's nickname 'The Kingdom of Death'.

Oh, and say hi to your friend the Lord Jesus for me please.
(Ian, UK, 2 August 2014 11:30)

Why don't you say hi to Him yourself? He's right there, deep in your heart. Just get real quiet and still and you'll find Him.
Remember now, "when life gets too hard to stand--kneel", but you're probably still too untried to truly understand that.

Why don't you say hi to Him yourself?

(Tried by fire, 3 August 2014 07:36)

Because he is dead. What sort of an idiot do you think I am? I'm not going to say hi to a dead person. Also there is no real proof that he existed in the first place.

I'm not stupid enough to say hi to a dead person who may not have existed in the first place. What sort of a moron would do that?

From Ian: "...Mihailovic fought with and collaborated with pretty much everyone."

Again, you fail to explain why no one, Nazi or otherwise, killed Mihailovich to collect the $100K bounty from Hitler. Surely this couldn't have been too hard to do if he was collaborating and meeting so closely with Hitler and the Nazis as you repeatedly mention. Hell, $100K today is a lot of money. Back then it was even more. Your arguement has holes!

From Ian: "...you've just labelled an entire ethnic groups again. What about the Croats and Bosniaks who opposed fascism and fought for the Partisans and to a lesser extent the Chetniks?"

The Croats & Muslims (there were no Bosniaks during WWII Mr. History major - the term came about during the war of the 1990s, ha,ha) either fought on the side of the fascists or the communists. Thousands and thousands of Croat Ustasha deserted and joined the Partisans toward the end of the war when it was evident that they were on the losing side. In my book there wasn't much difference between the two groups. Both were totalitarian regimes that oppressed the masses and disallowed the freedoms that many in the west take for granted.

As for the Albanians, the vast majority fought on the side of the fascists. You would be hard pressed to find an Albanian that claimed they were a part of the Partizans today. According to today's Albanians, this was the Serb-led regime that oppressed Albanians for decades. Plain and simple facts.

From J: "Yes he is. (lying) Fighting against Serbia and Greece didn't necessarily mean we were fighting to protect Turkey. We were fighting to protect our lands from being grabbed by Serbia and Greece."

Thanks for clearing that up for me J. Since you refute an Albanian historian and say he is lying, I guess we should all just believe you, right? LOL.

And please expound on the term "Albanian lands" as you continually refer to. Does mean that anywhere Albanians live are considered Albanian lands? Funny how you guys love to use the term Greater Serbia pejoratively, yet it is politically correct for you to espouse a Greater Albania. Please explain. Your elected leaders have even done so. Albanian lands, according to you guys, includes large parts of Montenegro, Macedonia and Greece. Some Albanians even include Croatia. Did I miss any?

I find this amusing in that Albania wasn't even a country untry until 1912 and before that Albanians lived in parts of the Kingdoms of Serbia & Montenegro, the Ottoman Empire and Greece. Throughout history Albanians didn't have the wherewithall to develop your own culture and identity in these areas, yet all of a sudden, these are Albanian lands that should be returned. A common arguement of the Albanians, albeit a weak one, is that you are descendants of the Ilyrians. Why then do you call yourselves Albanians? No evidence of a linkeage between the ancient Ilyrians and today's Albanians exists. Maybe your buddy Ian can help you ansewr.

Wait, njegos is discussing history?

If we take history into account, serbia has had a remarkable history of genocide. Masacres in Prizren, Scodar and wherever the serbian army went.
But whatever, what matters actually is that serbs were just slavic barbarians that entered the balkans in the past, your socalled "History and cultural heritage" is nothing more than being pawns of Russia and the orthodox church.
In kosovo, the only valuable serbian monuments are bunch of churches, no old cities, not fortresses, nothing.

You know, even the so called orthoox church is nothing more than heritage from the Byzantine empire. So being orthodox has nothing got to do with being a serb.

Now, I dont have anything against serbs who are reasonable and there were many friendly serbs in kosovo, but as for your religious nationalist albanophobes, be "greatful", it was your attitude that destroyed yugoslavia and by extension parts of serbia.

And as for the article, Kosovo army would only be a threat to serbia if it tries to go on the offensive in the future, nothing more.

And to quote Putin:
"Any people has a right to self-determination"

Oh, look, your favorite guy said this. I know this is quuoting someone out of context but hey, isnt this the level of you guys here?
If I were a serb, I would worry more about my wellbeing than some worthless former province in the south.

Security risks? Chetniks, mafiosi are security risks, not a country made mostly out of teens.

"Ian, surely a scholar such as yourself knows that The Ottoman Empire, which your beloved Albanians were a part of and fought for against the Serbs during the Balkan Wars, were also a part of the Central Powers."

--njegos, the above is a blatant lie. Now you are spiraling into the stereotypical Serb where " We lie because we are patriots" as Dobrica Cosic used to say. Albanians had to fight Serbs, Greeks and Ottomans at the same time as all of them wanted Albanian lands. The Serbs were claiming lands all the way to Durres because for some reason Serbia could not live without a port in the Adriatic. Greece wanted land from the south up to Durres, because of they had the backing of the big powers. The Ottomans wanted to keep all of it. Serbia, Greece, and the Ottomans were all the same, land grabbers. You were not fighting the Ottomans in present day Albania, you were an occupying force. The Serbian goal was to have the borders as further down south into Albania as possible, so you could grab as much of our riviera as possible. At one point both Serbia and Greece got into trouble with Italy, because Italy wanted the region of Vlora, and Serbia and Greece wanted the region of Vlora as well. Read more. The maps of the Serbian claims are still there. They tell everything and not the BS about this fight to free all the Balkan people of the Ottomans. This fight was a fight about who could grab as much land as possible.

Wait, njegos is discussing history?

If we take history into account, serbia has had a remarkable history of genocide. Masacres in Prizren, Scodar and wherever the serbian army went.
But whatever, what matters actually is that serbs were just slavic barbarians that entered the balkans in the past, your socalled "History and cultural heritage" is nothing more than being pawns of Russia and the orthodox church.
In kosovo, the only valuable serbian monuments are bunch of churches, no old cities, not fortresses, nothing.

You know, even the so called orthoox church is nothing more than heritage from the Byzantine empire. So being orthodox has nothing got to do with being a serb.

Now, I dont have anything against serbs who are reasonable and there were many friendly serbs in kosovo, but as for your religious nationalist albanophobes, be "greatful", it was your attitude that destroyed yugoslavia and by extension parts of serbia.

And as for the article, Kosovo army would only be a threat to serbia if it tries to go on the offensive in the future, nothing more.

And to quote Putin:
"Any people has a right to self-determination"

Oh, look, your favorite guy said this. I know this is quuoting someone out of context but hey, isnt this the level of you guys here?
If I were a serb, I would worry more about my wellbeing than some worthless former province in the south.

Security risks? Chetniks, mafiosi are security risks, not a country made mostly out of teens.

From Peace: "...being orthodox has nothing got to do with being a serb."

So I guess the Muslims of Bosnia, the majority of whom were Orthodox christian Serbs before converting to Islam centuries ago, are no different than the Orthodox Serbs of today's Bosnia, right Peace? Your comment is idiodic. Religion is the primary differentiator between the two groups. Why don't you try and call a Muslim Bosniak a Serb or visa versa and see what happens to you. You are a joke!

More idiotic comments from Peace: "...serbs were just slavic barbarians that entered the balkans in the past..." "In kosovo, the only valuable serbian monuments are bunch of churches, no old cities, not fortresses, nothing."

What a very thoughtful and intelligent comment. If you knew anything about Serbian history, which you obviously don't, you would know that Serbian society centered around the church. For over 500 years, the Ottomans tried to separate Serbs from orthodoxy and failed. The communists tried as well, and failed. For centuries, Serb society in Montenegro was a theocracy where the military, governmental and clergy were run by bishops.

...and then he says: "Now, I dont have anything against serbs..."

Yeah Peace, you don't have anything against Serbs.

More from the Balkan expert, Peace: "Security risks? Chetniks, mafiosi are security risks, not a country made mostly out of teens."

You forgot Hasim Thaci and his KLA (Drenica Group) who are being investigated for murder, torture and other war crimes.

Great research Peace...not.