"Serbia given ultimatum over Russia sanctions"

Well bratushki it’s time to check what we all are worth of. It will be the third time for the last 100 years and hopefully we’ll be as good as our grandfathers. This moment of true was expected and it’s a great challenge for both of our peoples. We’ll see who in our elites is the property of the American government and who is the property of our two peoples. After Chamberlain shook his paper boasting as ”I brought peace for you!” in 1938 W. Churchill said “If between war and disgrace you chose the disgrace you will have both the war and the disgrace.” In a year WW2 started …

This is getting ugly. Especially because everyone knows at this point that the Russians had nothing to do with it. Neither did the separatists. This airliner, MH17, was shot down by the Ukrainians who had the equipment in the field to do the job. The separatists do not have the equipment to reach anything that high. Not only that, but the Ukrainians have shot down airliners before in 2001, then it was the Russian flight 1812.

A non-aggression pact is far better than collaboration which was chosen by Croatia,Italy,Hungary,Albania,Ukraine,Lithuania etc. These names sound familiar don't they?? EU maybe or prospective members? Serbia should maintain it's position as morally anything else is indefensible.The Russians helped liberate Yugoslavia and that should not be forgotten in the way the EU seems to have total disregard for the sacrifices Russia made in WW2 to stop Hitler over-running them.To their eternal shame I should add.

NO to sanctions on Russia. Serbia should remain neutral on this. It cannot and must not be bullied. The Russians deserve support from the citizens and Government of Serbia as they supported us when NATO bombed Serbia and Kosmet. The west should hang head in shame for turmoil they create. Don't blame Russia for western influenced imperfect world.

This is the referendum issue!

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ, what a load of crap. It will NEVER happen. Let’s be honest, if Germany and others are so worried why don’t they impose real sanctions which then be followed by cessation of Russian energy and a ban on all EU goods from being sold in Russia.
What would be the end result? In the first week 350 000 unemployed in Germany; in the first 3 months 10 million on the social security band wagon; in 6 months 20 to 25 million. Now let’s turn to the biggest hypocrite of all, the UK. Why don’t they put their money where their mouth is and kick out all the Russian investment and stop processing Russian financial transactions???? Russia has about 600 billion pounds in the UK so why don’t they freeze this money????
The EU is in a bad shape now and what you would see is an unimaginable depression that would bring about the economic collapse of the EU and then it would then bring down the US as well.
Going back to this story – that all it is, a story started by a desperate group because the Ukraine incident is not sticking to Russia or the separatist. Even the CIA director is now offering an alternative by stating that no BUK systems are located on Russian bases near the Ukraine border nor on the one that trains the separatist. Then he even went on to say it might have been an error.

" In a year WW2 started …"

We know what your country was doing during that time don't we? Signing Non-Aggression Pacts with Hitler, dividing up Poland, and massacring people in the Katyn Forest.

Time for people to decide not the politicians.
This batch of politicians is corrupt and should not be trusted.
It's becoming more and more obvious that this downing of a plane was a false flag designed to bring Russia to it's knees along with Serbia. Desperte people do desperate things and the US is very, very desperate now. They control Kiev and they made all the decisions.

Exactly a century (symbolysm, anyone?) after issuing Serbia the fateful WW1 ultimatum which spelled doom for most of the Euro-civilization, set back the entire planet by about 100 years and opened the doors to bolshevism, fascism, nazism, neoconism, ialamic fundamentalism and holocaust, the evil that killed more than 100 million human beings in both world wars is rearing its ugly head again and again trying to strange small Serbian nation.

Some people never seem to learn, do they?

Respectfully, gentlemen: read yourself some Hegel (one of your own): as he so presciently noted: the human history moves in triads. And guess what? This is your third attemp: please tiptoe lightly and very, very gingerly around Serbia and leave your ulteriour motives on her borders...the peril is nigh.

Stalin was not Russian, he was Georgian.

Hitler was not German, he was Austrian.

At least two of the other dictators of the Soviet Union, Kruschev and Gorbechev were not Russian either. They were Ukrainian. It was Kruschev who gave Crimea to the Soviet Ukraine.

„We know what your country was doing during that time”

Your comment disapproves your statement. In prewar period USSR was the only one on the continent to seek peace and do what we could for peace. Katyn tragedy has nothing to do with that period. It happened in mid-1941. But before that Poland offered Hitler a joint assault against USSR and refused to let our troops pass their territory to help Czechoslovakia. Meanwhile France as the second guarantee of the Czech independence refused to help them. In the circumstances Molotov had to sign the Packt that many Europeans still enjoy though formally criticize. So you know only what CNN and Fox tell you.

.

Willi Has A Point

Are you a GMO Albanian ? If not where did you get those idiotic figures ? Who and how could calculate them ?

1/ We in Russia have full list of the executions that happened in this country during the last 17 years of Stalin. Before 1937 you know he was a dove of peace. The list includes the names of the executed. Something about 890 000. This number includes all the criminal , political and the military who has been shot down plus the traitors of course. Because in my country traditionally there’s only one punishment for treason. So the real figure is 41,4 million smaller of what you offer.

2/ How can you calculate people in China ? How can you calculate them during civil war mixed with the war against the Japanese ? How can you say that Mao killed 37 million and Chan only 10 ? Why on Earth you count the Generalissimos as China and not Taiwan ?

3/ who told you Hitler killed 20 million if only USSR lost 27 ?

4/ What idot could calculate that Lenin killed 4 million during the civil war , Kolchak - 1,5 , Denikin - 0,5, Wrangel - 0,8 , Trotsky - 1,1 , Stalin - 0,3 , Petlura - 1,0 Yudenich - 0,45 , Mahno - 2,2 ect. Who and how calculated it ?

5/ How can you calculate Titos victims and plus them to the German , Croat , Albanian , Bulgarian , Italian and other bastards to occupy this country ? See your doctor not to go crazy because we already have one idiot Willie-Edith-Pif-Paff-Oglu-Manda-ibn-Kelmendi-Uraza-Bairam-Ford-Transit-Bek.

"Katyn tragedy has nothing to do with that period. It happened in mid-1941."

Sure it does as the Soviet Union entered WW2 in June 1941. It was what they were doing before the war "supposedly" when they were the only ones opposed to Germany.

Waclaw

You do not look a GMO Albanian so maybe I can reach you. Poles and Russians are phonetically and genetically very close. Besides almost nobody loves none of us in Europe. Yet there’s always something or somebody to bar our understanding. Before 1920 our contradictions were based on religion then there was no religion in Russia. So since the contradiction obtained national , political and other tastes. I suppose I know the details of the history of those relations better than you do. So if mean to say something be sure that your facts are correct. Two other Poles that now and then come here will tell you how cynic merciless I can be and I like to call spade a spade.

Now that I have warned you are free either to conflict or just exchange our views. If you choose to conflict you will learn a lot of things in your history that you would prefer not to know. Some Poles have complex of inferiority and if you are as such best if you do not tease me. I am not hostile to the Poles but I become aggressive when words Russia and Russian are spelled without respect. Every GMO Albanian here will tell it to you. By the way yesterday I decided to invade one of their English forums to drink their fresh blood. But the site was so friendly and positive that never dared to spoil it with hatred.

Czesc !

Aah, those wonderful 'EU Values'. The same values that the Latvian's have when they hold their annual nazi parade, or of the US/EU coup government in Kiev, which has open nazis in cabinet and tried to ban the Russian language. Yes, these are the people giving Serbia ultimatums to cut off all ties with Russia and join their 'friends' in the so called civilized West. The same friends who sanctioned, bombed, and did their best to steal sovereign Serbian land - which Russia stopped thank God. These same Fourth Reich talking heads are using the MH17 tragedy to blame Russia, even though all evidence points to Ukraine nazi regime is at fault - but hey, they don't let the truth get in the way of a great opportunity to bully and enhance their empire.
Time is long overdue to tell these Fuhrers to %$*@ off, they are not welcome in Serbia, and that Serbia stands shoulder to shoulder with Russia in its fight for freedom and independence from these war criminals.
Cheers!!

it is very strange how one name is not even mentioned in all this talk about WWII. The name that is missing here is Stalin, the Russian Hitler. Those two were equally bad, and ultimately responsible for the death of Millions in their own country as well as across Europe. Two of the worst, if not the worst dictators in the current history, which brought death and destruction all over Europe. Germany has, and still does deal with his horrible and unforgivable past. The same can not be said about Russia. Stalin plays no role in their history, simply is ignored, and as a result Russia slips back into a dictatorship where human rights, personal freedom, and humanity are ignored. The Soviet Union with all its dictators is glorified, and there is no refection on what happened during that time. The Soviet Union is reduced to a force which helped free Europe from Nazi fascism, but nobody in Russia talks about the similarities between the Nazis and Stalinism, and so the way is paved for history to reaped itself.

To GOEBBELS FOLLOWERES

• Katyn, the collective murder of nearly 27,000 Polish prisoners юю occurred in the Spring of 1940, not in 1941 as stated above... This was admitted to by Gorbachev and Yeltsin. (Waclaw Godziemba-Maliszewski)

• Sure it does as the Soviet Union entered WW2 in June 1941.(Rote is still stupid)

OK boys if you ask me I can educate you both. But because your two comments contradict I’ll just shortly tell you the truth your Russophobe heads refuse to accept. In 1943 Goebbels started a campaign to make Poles less reluctant to join Wermacht though during WW2 above 500 000 Poles ought us within German forces. Anyway listen :

1/ I am very sorry for the tragedy and if I were Stalin I would definitely leave unrevenged all those 100 000 prisoners of war that had been tortured by the Poles 19 years before Katyn.

2/ 22 000 Poles ( not 27 000 !) shot down when Werhrmacht approached the camps composed some 10% of the Polish prisoners of war here. Those were ideologically hostile to the Bolshevicks police and army officers only. Nobody shot workers and peasants. Those were officers of THE 1 200 000 army that in 1939 offered Hitler to join him in his war against USSR.

3/ All 22 000 killed Polish prisoners ( out of 230 000 ) were executed in 7 camps and only one of them was located on the Russian soil ( near Tver) while 6 other were in Byelorussia and Ukraine. So it is strange that Russia is the only guilt.


Feel free to ask anything !

Serbia better not sign up for sanctions against Russia, that would be foolish. American Zionist Empire must be prevented from taking the world to war. They have encircled Russia and now need a pretext for WW3

Katyn, the collective murder of nearly 27,000 Polish prisoners of war (including mostly military, but some civil personnel) occurred in the Spring of 1940, not in 1941 as stated above. The USSR was in possession of the land where the murders took place. This was admitted to by Gorbachev and Yeltsin.

Willi

In "Death by Government" by R.J. Rummel, Stalin ranks number 1 as the 20th century's bloodiest dictator, followed by Mao and then Hitler. Of course had the war ended differently who knows what Hitler's numbers would have ultimately ended at. Interestingly enough Tito is on the list at number 9.

For those not interested in reading a book here are some links to the pertinent data.

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DBG.TAB1.4.GIF

and

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM

Hang on a minute there's another murderous dictator to add to the list...Josip Broz "Tito". If you compare the deaths he caused per head of population of Yugoslavia I think he may come out top in the averages?? I'm all for removing his remains from Belgrade, sending them home to Croatia and making the house of flowers into a more appropriate landmark which everyone can enjoy.

The EU is in a bad shape now and what you would see is an unimaginable depression that would bring about the economic collapse of the EU and then it would then bring down the US as well.
(sj, 24 July 2014 00:54)

Hmm, something is wrong with the above. According to the CE of B92 forums sj, the evil EU and US have already collapsed and run out of cash. Aren't you aware of the teachings of the CE of B92 forums sj?!

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

"1/ We in Russia have full list of the executions that happened in this country during the last 17 years of Stalin. Before 1937 you know he was a dove of peace. The list includes the names of the executed. Something about 890 000. This number includes all the criminal , political and the military who has been shot down plus the traitors of course. Because in my country traditionally there’s only one punishment for treason. So the real figure is 41,4 million smaller of what you offer. "


I imagine the 4 to 8 million Kukaks that were deliberately starved to death in 1932 and 1933 would disagree.

" In a year WW2 started …"

We know what your country was doing during that time don't we? Signing Non-Aggression Pacts with Hitler, dividing up Poland, and massacring people in the Katyn Forest.

A non-aggression pact is far better than collaboration which was chosen by Croatia,Italy,Hungary,Albania,Ukraine,Lithuania etc. These names sound familiar don't they?? EU maybe or prospective members? Serbia should maintain it's position as morally anything else is indefensible.The Russians helped liberate Yugoslavia and that should not be forgotten in the way the EU seems to have total disregard for the sacrifices Russia made in WW2 to stop Hitler over-running them.To their eternal shame I should add.

This is getting ugly. Especially because everyone knows at this point that the Russians had nothing to do with it. Neither did the separatists. This airliner, MH17, was shot down by the Ukrainians who had the equipment in the field to do the job. The separatists do not have the equipment to reach anything that high. Not only that, but the Ukrainians have shot down airliners before in 2001, then it was the Russian flight 1812.

Well bratushki it’s time to check what we all are worth of. It will be the third time for the last 100 years and hopefully we’ll be as good as our grandfathers. This moment of true was expected and it’s a great challenge for both of our peoples. We’ll see who in our elites is the property of the American government and who is the property of our two peoples. After Chamberlain shook his paper boasting as ”I brought peace for you!” in 1938 W. Churchill said “If between war and disgrace you chose the disgrace you will have both the war and the disgrace.” In a year WW2 started …

NO to sanctions on Russia. Serbia should remain neutral on this. It cannot and must not be bullied. The Russians deserve support from the citizens and Government of Serbia as they supported us when NATO bombed Serbia and Kosmet. The west should hang head in shame for turmoil they create. Don't blame Russia for western influenced imperfect world.

Time for people to decide not the politicians.
This batch of politicians is corrupt and should not be trusted.
It's becoming more and more obvious that this downing of a plane was a false flag designed to bring Russia to it's knees along with Serbia. Desperte people do desperate things and the US is very, very desperate now. They control Kiev and they made all the decisions.

it is very strange how one name is not even mentioned in all this talk about WWII. The name that is missing here is Stalin, the Russian Hitler. Those two were equally bad, and ultimately responsible for the death of Millions in their own country as well as across Europe. Two of the worst, if not the worst dictators in the current history, which brought death and destruction all over Europe. Germany has, and still does deal with his horrible and unforgivable past. The same can not be said about Russia. Stalin plays no role in their history, simply is ignored, and as a result Russia slips back into a dictatorship where human rights, personal freedom, and humanity are ignored. The Soviet Union with all its dictators is glorified, and there is no refection on what happened during that time. The Soviet Union is reduced to a force which helped free Europe from Nazi fascism, but nobody in Russia talks about the similarities between the Nazis and Stalinism, and so the way is paved for history to reaped itself.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ, what a load of crap. It will NEVER happen. Let’s be honest, if Germany and others are so worried why don’t they impose real sanctions which then be followed by cessation of Russian energy and a ban on all EU goods from being sold in Russia.
What would be the end result? In the first week 350 000 unemployed in Germany; in the first 3 months 10 million on the social security band wagon; in 6 months 20 to 25 million. Now let’s turn to the biggest hypocrite of all, the UK. Why don’t they put their money where their mouth is and kick out all the Russian investment and stop processing Russian financial transactions???? Russia has about 600 billion pounds in the UK so why don’t they freeze this money????
The EU is in a bad shape now and what you would see is an unimaginable depression that would bring about the economic collapse of the EU and then it would then bring down the US as well.
Going back to this story – that all it is, a story started by a desperate group because the Ukraine incident is not sticking to Russia or the separatist. Even the CIA director is now offering an alternative by stating that no BUK systems are located on Russian bases near the Ukraine border nor on the one that trains the separatist. Then he even went on to say it might have been an error.

„We know what your country was doing during that time”

Your comment disapproves your statement. In prewar period USSR was the only one on the continent to seek peace and do what we could for peace. Katyn tragedy has nothing to do with that period. It happened in mid-1941. But before that Poland offered Hitler a joint assault against USSR and refused to let our troops pass their territory to help Czechoslovakia. Meanwhile France as the second guarantee of the Czech independence refused to help them. In the circumstances Molotov had to sign the Packt that many Europeans still enjoy though formally criticize. So you know only what CNN and Fox tell you.

.

"Katyn tragedy has nothing to do with that period. It happened in mid-1941."

Sure it does as the Soviet Union entered WW2 in June 1941. It was what they were doing before the war "supposedly" when they were the only ones opposed to Germany.

The EU is in a bad shape now and what you would see is an unimaginable depression that would bring about the economic collapse of the EU and then it would then bring down the US as well.
(sj, 24 July 2014 00:54)

Hmm, something is wrong with the above. According to the CE of B92 forums sj, the evil EU and US have already collapsed and run out of cash. Aren't you aware of the teachings of the CE of B92 forums sj?!

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

This is the referendum issue!

Hang on a minute there's another murderous dictator to add to the list...Josip Broz "Tito". If you compare the deaths he caused per head of population of Yugoslavia I think he may come out top in the averages?? I'm all for removing his remains from Belgrade, sending them home to Croatia and making the house of flowers into a more appropriate landmark which everyone can enjoy.

Katyn, the collective murder of nearly 27,000 Polish prisoners of war (including mostly military, but some civil personnel) occurred in the Spring of 1940, not in 1941 as stated above. The USSR was in possession of the land where the murders took place. This was admitted to by Gorbachev and Yeltsin.

Willi Has A Point

Are you a GMO Albanian ? If not where did you get those idiotic figures ? Who and how could calculate them ?

1/ We in Russia have full list of the executions that happened in this country during the last 17 years of Stalin. Before 1937 you know he was a dove of peace. The list includes the names of the executed. Something about 890 000. This number includes all the criminal , political and the military who has been shot down plus the traitors of course. Because in my country traditionally there’s only one punishment for treason. So the real figure is 41,4 million smaller of what you offer.

2/ How can you calculate people in China ? How can you calculate them during civil war mixed with the war against the Japanese ? How can you say that Mao killed 37 million and Chan only 10 ? Why on Earth you count the Generalissimos as China and not Taiwan ?

3/ who told you Hitler killed 20 million if only USSR lost 27 ?

4/ What idot could calculate that Lenin killed 4 million during the civil war , Kolchak - 1,5 , Denikin - 0,5, Wrangel - 0,8 , Trotsky - 1,1 , Stalin - 0,3 , Petlura - 1,0 Yudenich - 0,45 , Mahno - 2,2 ect. Who and how calculated it ?

5/ How can you calculate Titos victims and plus them to the German , Croat , Albanian , Bulgarian , Italian and other bastards to occupy this country ? See your doctor not to go crazy because we already have one idiot Willie-Edith-Pif-Paff-Oglu-Manda-ibn-Kelmendi-Uraza-Bairam-Ford-Transit-Bek.

Waclaw

You do not look a GMO Albanian so maybe I can reach you. Poles and Russians are phonetically and genetically very close. Besides almost nobody loves none of us in Europe. Yet there’s always something or somebody to bar our understanding. Before 1920 our contradictions were based on religion then there was no religion in Russia. So since the contradiction obtained national , political and other tastes. I suppose I know the details of the history of those relations better than you do. So if mean to say something be sure that your facts are correct. Two other Poles that now and then come here will tell you how cynic merciless I can be and I like to call spade a spade.

Now that I have warned you are free either to conflict or just exchange our views. If you choose to conflict you will learn a lot of things in your history that you would prefer not to know. Some Poles have complex of inferiority and if you are as such best if you do not tease me. I am not hostile to the Poles but I become aggressive when words Russia and Russian are spelled without respect. Every GMO Albanian here will tell it to you. By the way yesterday I decided to invade one of their English forums to drink their fresh blood. But the site was so friendly and positive that never dared to spoil it with hatred.

Czesc !

Willi

In "Death by Government" by R.J. Rummel, Stalin ranks number 1 as the 20th century's bloodiest dictator, followed by Mao and then Hitler. Of course had the war ended differently who knows what Hitler's numbers would have ultimately ended at. Interestingly enough Tito is on the list at number 9.

For those not interested in reading a book here are some links to the pertinent data.

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DBG.TAB1.4.GIF

and

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM

To GOEBBELS FOLLOWERES

• Katyn, the collective murder of nearly 27,000 Polish prisoners юю occurred in the Spring of 1940, not in 1941 as stated above... This was admitted to by Gorbachev and Yeltsin. (Waclaw Godziemba-Maliszewski)

• Sure it does as the Soviet Union entered WW2 in June 1941.(Rote is still stupid)

OK boys if you ask me I can educate you both. But because your two comments contradict I’ll just shortly tell you the truth your Russophobe heads refuse to accept. In 1943 Goebbels started a campaign to make Poles less reluctant to join Wermacht though during WW2 above 500 000 Poles ought us within German forces. Anyway listen :

1/ I am very sorry for the tragedy and if I were Stalin I would definitely leave unrevenged all those 100 000 prisoners of war that had been tortured by the Poles 19 years before Katyn.

2/ 22 000 Poles ( not 27 000 !) shot down when Werhrmacht approached the camps composed some 10% of the Polish prisoners of war here. Those were ideologically hostile to the Bolshevicks police and army officers only. Nobody shot workers and peasants. Those were officers of THE 1 200 000 army that in 1939 offered Hitler to join him in his war against USSR.

3/ All 22 000 killed Polish prisoners ( out of 230 000 ) were executed in 7 camps and only one of them was located on the Russian soil ( near Tver) while 6 other were in Byelorussia and Ukraine. So it is strange that Russia is the only guilt.


Feel free to ask anything !

Aah, those wonderful 'EU Values'. The same values that the Latvian's have when they hold their annual nazi parade, or of the US/EU coup government in Kiev, which has open nazis in cabinet and tried to ban the Russian language. Yes, these are the people giving Serbia ultimatums to cut off all ties with Russia and join their 'friends' in the so called civilized West. The same friends who sanctioned, bombed, and did their best to steal sovereign Serbian land - which Russia stopped thank God. These same Fourth Reich talking heads are using the MH17 tragedy to blame Russia, even though all evidence points to Ukraine nazi regime is at fault - but hey, they don't let the truth get in the way of a great opportunity to bully and enhance their empire.
Time is long overdue to tell these Fuhrers to %$*@ off, they are not welcome in Serbia, and that Serbia stands shoulder to shoulder with Russia in its fight for freedom and independence from these war criminals.
Cheers!!

Exactly a century (symbolysm, anyone?) after issuing Serbia the fateful WW1 ultimatum which spelled doom for most of the Euro-civilization, set back the entire planet by about 100 years and opened the doors to bolshevism, fascism, nazism, neoconism, ialamic fundamentalism and holocaust, the evil that killed more than 100 million human beings in both world wars is rearing its ugly head again and again trying to strange small Serbian nation.

Some people never seem to learn, do they?

Respectfully, gentlemen: read yourself some Hegel (one of your own): as he so presciently noted: the human history moves in triads. And guess what? This is your third attemp: please tiptoe lightly and very, very gingerly around Serbia and leave your ulteriour motives on her borders...the peril is nigh.

Stalin was not Russian, he was Georgian.

Hitler was not German, he was Austrian.

At least two of the other dictators of the Soviet Union, Kruschev and Gorbechev were not Russian either. They were Ukrainian. It was Kruschev who gave Crimea to the Soviet Ukraine.

Serbia better not sign up for sanctions against Russia, that would be foolish. American Zionist Empire must be prevented from taking the world to war. They have encircled Russia and now need a pretext for WW3

"1/ We in Russia have full list of the executions that happened in this country during the last 17 years of Stalin. Before 1937 you know he was a dove of peace. The list includes the names of the executed. Something about 890 000. This number includes all the criminal , political and the military who has been shot down plus the traitors of course. Because in my country traditionally there’s only one punishment for treason. So the real figure is 41,4 million smaller of what you offer. "


I imagine the 4 to 8 million Kukaks that were deliberately starved to death in 1932 and 1933 would disagree.