More accusations, still no investigation

Russia claims the Ukrainians shot down the plane. OK, so why, since it came down in a rebel controlled area, dispose of all the evidence before experts (from all sides) have had the ability to investigate?
Really stupid, if you ask me.

Russia claims the Ukrainians shot down the plane. OK, so why, since it came down in a rebel controlled area, dispose of all the evidence before experts (from all sides) have had the ability to investigate?
Really stupid, if you ask me.
(T, 21 July 2014 16:54)
====================
Russia has everything to lose and nothing to gain over this disaster. Ukraine has everything to gain and nothing to lose because the west will automatically rally against Russia.
It's a good thing that Russia took evidence first because now they have tools to defend themselves with. If Ukraine got to it first they would never release the real evidence because the west would tell them not to.
The west is corrupt and would do anything, just like a wounded animal. They know they can't push Russia out of Ukraine so they have to stage something to get ignorant masses onborad.

The remains of the B-777 body shows (or seem to show?) air-to-air missile damage which is different than the ground-air missile damage as two systems operate completely differently.

Whoever was, it was a self-proclaimed "Russian" (or "Kiev-Russian" = "Ukrainian") neandertal, regardless.
The same military doctrine and same mentality what brought down the Korean airplane in 1980-s.

They should not hold anything more dangerous than a bottle of beer (and settle their petty conflicts with that bottle).

As far as Poroshenko, his nickname now is "Potroshenko" - something sounding like "Jack, the Ripper", from the verb "потрошить'" = "to rip apart" (the belly).

The separatists could not have shot down an airliner, they can hardly stand up against Ukrainian air strikes against them. They have managed to shoot down a few aircraft, but only at low altitudes and slow airspeeds.

The Ukrainians have BUKs in the field in East Ukraine that could have shot down an airliner. They are the only ones who could have done it. Not only that, they've done it before in 2001. That time it was a Russian airliner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

The west is corrupt and would do anything, just like a wounded animal. They know they can't push Russia out of Ukraine so they have to stage something to get ignorant masses onborad.
(Peggy, 21 July 2014 22:59)

As usual, here we have "Peggy" spewing her already well noted ignorance and intellectual limitations.

Please note Peggy that the "west" that you so frequently milign is in fact the basis of your very own freedom. It the the western Judeo-Christian tradition that has evolved over 2000 years in western Europe that allows you to spew your hatreds and ignoraance on this very forum.

It is the western traditions of democracy, press freedoms, open and transparent government that Serbia itself wishes to incoporate on its path towards the EU - they got none of those ideals from Russia, rest assured.

So please stop being a hypocrite - we have all had enough of your perma-victim, perma- hatreds- mind numbingly useless rants.

For the love of humanity, if you hate the west and Australia - MOVE TO RUSSIA!!!! There you can kiss Putins backside all you like. There you will no doubt be able to worship at the alter of idiots with the rest of your right wing nut cases.

next please....

T-bone

Really stupid, if you ask me.


Only idiots do not know that permissions to come and go in Ukrainian air is the government’s job. Also Republicans from the very beginning declared that they will cooperate only with the ICAO , OSCE and other international bodies but not the fascists in Kiev. So they did after 120 hours of expectation when Malaysians and the Dutch have finally arrived to the region last night ! But instead of stopping the war the bandits in Kiev have activated the operation. It’s already evident that the plane has not been hit down by accident because :

• 3 days before though Donbass has no planes Kiev deployed here almost all it surface-to-air missiles.
• The missiles stations were increasingly activated before July 17 and then all of a sudden came to the standby mode.
• The US satellite at the same time “accidentally” appeared above Donetsk …
• Because 777 gave them too little time 2-3 minutes to come and go to the reach zone of the Buk missiles they ad hoq used also a SU-25 or SU-27 plane that I believe has brought the poor plane down.
• The route of the plane was changed by Kiev while everybody knows that the civilian dispatchers in all countries obey the military … anyway the plane was guided to a 500 lower echelon and 300 km to the North i.e. closer to the war zone …
• Rebellions control only 5% of the territory of Ukraine. So it is very strange that so many things happen at the same time on such a small territory.

@ T

I know it's stupid because your name T = TROLL

If it's a fact that a Ukraine military jet was flying in commercial air space at 3-5km distance from MH17, then Ukraine miltary has much to answer ..Even if they (Ukraine military)did not shoot down MH17, their presence in that air space would be enough to compel the separitists to launch a missile.

АТАМАН

As far as Poroshenko, his nickname now is "Potroshenko" - something sounding like "Jack, the Ripper", from the verb "потрошить'" = "to rip apart" (the belly). (Ataman, 21 July 2014 17:43)

It’s not everything because he has other names too :

1/ Also people call him Parashenko from the Russian world ПАРАША. You should know the meaning but for the others I have to explain that in Russian criminal slang PARASHA is the worst place in prison. It’s the nearest to the toilet.

2/ Another name used for him is ПОРОСЕНКО deprives from ПОРОСЁНОК i.e. small pig.

3/ One more name КАГАН is caused by two reasons. One is his Jewish origin as well as the rest Timoshenko , Kolomoisky , Levchenko , Taruta , Turchinov , Yatsenuk ect. main players in Ukraine. The other reason is that half of Ukraine once belonged to the Hazar Kaganat ruled like today by the Jewish minority. So most Jews here take the Russians as newcomers. By the way Kaganat was as bloody and merciless as the current Kiev authorities.

НЕ ВЗДУМАЙ ПРИШИВАТЬ МНЕ АНТИСЕМИТИЗМ !

For the love of humanity, if you hate the west and Australia - MOVE TO RUSSIA!!!! There you can kiss Putins backside all you like. There you will no doubt be able to worship at the alter of idiots with the rest of your right wing nut cases.

next please....
(truthiness, 22 July 2014 05:11)
========================
Australia is the only home that I've known so no, I won't leave, but that doesn't mean that I can't see the corruption of the west and speak against it.
Are you saying that you are a mushroom, willing to be kept in the dark and fed BS just because you live in the west?
If you can't hold your government to account and allow them to do whatever they want just because you think you should then you are the fool here and should not be contributing to this duscussion. You are one of the ignorant masses who thinks that their government shines just because they are western.
Stop 'contributing' here and leave it to the adults.

Russia has everything to lose and nothing to gain over this disaster.
(Peggy, 21 July 2014 22:59)

Yeah, I'm sure that Russia got that point; but it is too late now. It should have thought about it before giving "toys" like missiles to drunkards in Eastern Ukraine who started to use them shooting down everything flying, whether military or civilian.
----------

The west is corrupt and would do anything, just like a wounded animal.
(Peggy, 21 July 2014 22:59)

Then what are you doing in Australia, dear, which is so corrupt - move to the virtuous Russia (but make sure not to fly over Russia - we'd hate to loose your contributions to these forums).
----------

They know they can't push Russia out of Ukraine so they have to stage something to get ignorant masses onborad.
(Peggy, 21 July 2014 22:59)

Yeah, I'm sure the West told the rebels in Eastern Ukraine to shoot down that civilian aircraft as part of that staging.

If there is a chance that it was Ukrainians who did it why the separatists block the work of investigators since 4 consecutive days and practically destroy all evidence on the ground?

Russia claims the Ukrainians shot down the plane. OK, so why, since it came down in a rebel controlled area, dispose of all the evidence before experts (from all sides) have had the ability to investigate?
Really stupid, if you ask me.
(T, 21 July 2014 16:54)
============================
It has to come down in the rebel controlled area to make it look like the rebels did it and the reason why the rebels wanted to gather evidence first was to stop Ukraine from tampering with it and making sure that there is no way Russia can prove anything.
It's really simple you know.

With all the smear campaigns and accusations already made, I wonder if there will be any objective investigation carried out at all.

We all know that a Western investigation will show that the separatists shot the planes down with a Russian-supplied Buk AA system, and we all know that a Russian investigation will show that it was either shot down by a Ukrainian Su-25 or a Ukrainian Buk AA system, and that any "neutral" parties will have their pockets full of either Western or Russian money to support the "findings" of either side, so why bother?

More than likely, the real truth will never be known and the parties that be will simply act on their own "findings" anyway. The West will further sanction Russia and Russia will push up their gas/oil prices as compensation for their losses, and we, the common folk, will be the ones stuck with the f*%$ing cheque!

Russia claims the Ukrainians shot down the plane. OK, so why, since it came down in a rebel controlled area, dispose of all the evidence before experts (from all sides) have had the ability to investigate?
Really stupid, if you ask me.
(T, 21 July 2014 16:54)

A passenger airplane (B-777) travels roughly 900 km / h at the altitude over 10000 meters. In one minute the plane travels ca. 15 km. If it starts to break apart, the parts would slow down to the speed somewhat lower than the free fall, at least some parts. But the speed is still sufficient that you will have difficulty to determine, where exactly the plane was shot down.

At the same time a BUK missile can travel over 200 km before reaching a target. If the training of the air defense team is poor (already determined with the incident of 2001 in Ukraine - and obviously 100% the case here) than the target will be pretty much random.

Both sides have BUK launch pads. That the complete BUK needs a well-trained team and several control vehicles is an other case. As I recall, rebels had / have some functional launch pads and no support vehicles. "Kievians" do have the launch pads, *** maybe *** some support vehicles and mostly poorly trained crew. The crew what the rebels have is even worse.

Hence the tragedy. Who pulled the trigger is of lesser relevance that the fact, such drunk majmuns came even close to BUK. Personally, I believe, it was a rebel tough. IMO both Putin and "Potroshenko" should resign.

So please stop being a hypocrite - we have all had enough of your perma-victim, perma- hatreds- mind numbingly useless rants.
============================
And we are sick to death of your cr@p and icj's cr@p etc. etc. but here you all are spewing more cr@p every day.
So if you don't like what I say then you are more than welcome to ignore me.
The problem for you is that you can't argue against what I say so you get frustrated and say the same old tired "if you don't like the west then get out of the wes" cr@p.
One more time, I have every right to criticize my government. That doesn't mean I should leve, doesn it?

Russia claims the Ukrainians shot down the plane. OK, so why, since it came down in a rebel controlled area, dispose of all the evidence before experts (from all sides) have had the ability to investigate?
Really stupid, if you ask me.

Russia claims the Ukrainians shot down the plane. OK, so why, since it came down in a rebel controlled area, dispose of all the evidence before experts (from all sides) have had the ability to investigate?
Really stupid, if you ask me.
(T, 21 July 2014 16:54)
====================
Russia has everything to lose and nothing to gain over this disaster. Ukraine has everything to gain and nothing to lose because the west will automatically rally against Russia.
It's a good thing that Russia took evidence first because now they have tools to defend themselves with. If Ukraine got to it first they would never release the real evidence because the west would tell them not to.
The west is corrupt and would do anything, just like a wounded animal. They know they can't push Russia out of Ukraine so they have to stage something to get ignorant masses onborad.

Russia has everything to lose and nothing to gain over this disaster.
(Peggy, 21 July 2014 22:59)

Yeah, I'm sure that Russia got that point; but it is too late now. It should have thought about it before giving "toys" like missiles to drunkards in Eastern Ukraine who started to use them shooting down everything flying, whether military or civilian.
----------

The west is corrupt and would do anything, just like a wounded animal.
(Peggy, 21 July 2014 22:59)

Then what are you doing in Australia, dear, which is so corrupt - move to the virtuous Russia (but make sure not to fly over Russia - we'd hate to loose your contributions to these forums).
----------

They know they can't push Russia out of Ukraine so they have to stage something to get ignorant masses onborad.
(Peggy, 21 July 2014 22:59)

Yeah, I'm sure the West told the rebels in Eastern Ukraine to shoot down that civilian aircraft as part of that staging.

The west is corrupt and would do anything, just like a wounded animal. They know they can't push Russia out of Ukraine so they have to stage something to get ignorant masses onborad.
(Peggy, 21 July 2014 22:59)

As usual, here we have "Peggy" spewing her already well noted ignorance and intellectual limitations.

Please note Peggy that the "west" that you so frequently milign is in fact the basis of your very own freedom. It the the western Judeo-Christian tradition that has evolved over 2000 years in western Europe that allows you to spew your hatreds and ignoraance on this very forum.

It is the western traditions of democracy, press freedoms, open and transparent government that Serbia itself wishes to incoporate on its path towards the EU - they got none of those ideals from Russia, rest assured.

So please stop being a hypocrite - we have all had enough of your perma-victim, perma- hatreds- mind numbingly useless rants.

For the love of humanity, if you hate the west and Australia - MOVE TO RUSSIA!!!! There you can kiss Putins backside all you like. There you will no doubt be able to worship at the alter of idiots with the rest of your right wing nut cases.

next please....

@ T

I know it's stupid because your name T = TROLL

The separatists could not have shot down an airliner, they can hardly stand up against Ukrainian air strikes against them. They have managed to shoot down a few aircraft, but only at low altitudes and slow airspeeds.

The Ukrainians have BUKs in the field in East Ukraine that could have shot down an airliner. They are the only ones who could have done it. Not only that, they've done it before in 2001. That time it was a Russian airliner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

The remains of the B-777 body shows (or seem to show?) air-to-air missile damage which is different than the ground-air missile damage as two systems operate completely differently.

Whoever was, it was a self-proclaimed "Russian" (or "Kiev-Russian" = "Ukrainian") neandertal, regardless.
The same military doctrine and same mentality what brought down the Korean airplane in 1980-s.

They should not hold anything more dangerous than a bottle of beer (and settle their petty conflicts with that bottle).

As far as Poroshenko, his nickname now is "Potroshenko" - something sounding like "Jack, the Ripper", from the verb "потрошить'" = "to rip apart" (the belly).

T-bone

Really stupid, if you ask me.


Only idiots do not know that permissions to come and go in Ukrainian air is the government’s job. Also Republicans from the very beginning declared that they will cooperate only with the ICAO , OSCE and other international bodies but not the fascists in Kiev. So they did after 120 hours of expectation when Malaysians and the Dutch have finally arrived to the region last night ! But instead of stopping the war the bandits in Kiev have activated the operation. It’s already evident that the plane has not been hit down by accident because :

• 3 days before though Donbass has no planes Kiev deployed here almost all it surface-to-air missiles.
• The missiles stations were increasingly activated before July 17 and then all of a sudden came to the standby mode.
• The US satellite at the same time “accidentally” appeared above Donetsk …
• Because 777 gave them too little time 2-3 minutes to come and go to the reach zone of the Buk missiles they ad hoq used also a SU-25 or SU-27 plane that I believe has brought the poor plane down.
• The route of the plane was changed by Kiev while everybody knows that the civilian dispatchers in all countries obey the military … anyway the plane was guided to a 500 lower echelon and 300 km to the North i.e. closer to the war zone …
• Rebellions control only 5% of the territory of Ukraine. So it is very strange that so many things happen at the same time on such a small territory.

If it's a fact that a Ukraine military jet was flying in commercial air space at 3-5km distance from MH17, then Ukraine miltary has much to answer ..Even if they (Ukraine military)did not shoot down MH17, their presence in that air space would be enough to compel the separitists to launch a missile.

If there is a chance that it was Ukrainians who did it why the separatists block the work of investigators since 4 consecutive days and practically destroy all evidence on the ground?

Russia claims the Ukrainians shot down the plane. OK, so why, since it came down in a rebel controlled area, dispose of all the evidence before experts (from all sides) have had the ability to investigate?
Really stupid, if you ask me.
(T, 21 July 2014 16:54)
============================
It has to come down in the rebel controlled area to make it look like the rebels did it and the reason why the rebels wanted to gather evidence first was to stop Ukraine from tampering with it and making sure that there is no way Russia can prove anything.
It's really simple you know.

АТАМАН

As far as Poroshenko, his nickname now is "Potroshenko" - something sounding like "Jack, the Ripper", from the verb "потрошить'" = "to rip apart" (the belly). (Ataman, 21 July 2014 17:43)

It’s not everything because he has other names too :

1/ Also people call him Parashenko from the Russian world ПАРАША. You should know the meaning but for the others I have to explain that in Russian criminal slang PARASHA is the worst place in prison. It’s the nearest to the toilet.

2/ Another name used for him is ПОРОСЕНКО deprives from ПОРОСЁНОК i.e. small pig.

3/ One more name КАГАН is caused by two reasons. One is his Jewish origin as well as the rest Timoshenko , Kolomoisky , Levchenko , Taruta , Turchinov , Yatsenuk ect. main players in Ukraine. The other reason is that half of Ukraine once belonged to the Hazar Kaganat ruled like today by the Jewish minority. So most Jews here take the Russians as newcomers. By the way Kaganat was as bloody and merciless as the current Kiev authorities.

НЕ ВЗДУМАЙ ПРИШИВАТЬ МНЕ АНТИСЕМИТИЗМ !

For the love of humanity, if you hate the west and Australia - MOVE TO RUSSIA!!!! There you can kiss Putins backside all you like. There you will no doubt be able to worship at the alter of idiots with the rest of your right wing nut cases.

next please....
(truthiness, 22 July 2014 05:11)
========================
Australia is the only home that I've known so no, I won't leave, but that doesn't mean that I can't see the corruption of the west and speak against it.
Are you saying that you are a mushroom, willing to be kept in the dark and fed BS just because you live in the west?
If you can't hold your government to account and allow them to do whatever they want just because you think you should then you are the fool here and should not be contributing to this duscussion. You are one of the ignorant masses who thinks that their government shines just because they are western.
Stop 'contributing' here and leave it to the adults.

With all the smear campaigns and accusations already made, I wonder if there will be any objective investigation carried out at all.

We all know that a Western investigation will show that the separatists shot the planes down with a Russian-supplied Buk AA system, and we all know that a Russian investigation will show that it was either shot down by a Ukrainian Su-25 or a Ukrainian Buk AA system, and that any "neutral" parties will have their pockets full of either Western or Russian money to support the "findings" of either side, so why bother?

More than likely, the real truth will never be known and the parties that be will simply act on their own "findings" anyway. The West will further sanction Russia and Russia will push up their gas/oil prices as compensation for their losses, and we, the common folk, will be the ones stuck with the f*%$ing cheque!

Russia claims the Ukrainians shot down the plane. OK, so why, since it came down in a rebel controlled area, dispose of all the evidence before experts (from all sides) have had the ability to investigate?
Really stupid, if you ask me.
(T, 21 July 2014 16:54)

A passenger airplane (B-777) travels roughly 900 km / h at the altitude over 10000 meters. In one minute the plane travels ca. 15 km. If it starts to break apart, the parts would slow down to the speed somewhat lower than the free fall, at least some parts. But the speed is still sufficient that you will have difficulty to determine, where exactly the plane was shot down.

At the same time a BUK missile can travel over 200 km before reaching a target. If the training of the air defense team is poor (already determined with the incident of 2001 in Ukraine - and obviously 100% the case here) than the target will be pretty much random.

Both sides have BUK launch pads. That the complete BUK needs a well-trained team and several control vehicles is an other case. As I recall, rebels had / have some functional launch pads and no support vehicles. "Kievians" do have the launch pads, *** maybe *** some support vehicles and mostly poorly trained crew. The crew what the rebels have is even worse.

Hence the tragedy. Who pulled the trigger is of lesser relevance that the fact, such drunk majmuns came even close to BUK. Personally, I believe, it was a rebel tough. IMO both Putin and "Potroshenko" should resign.

So please stop being a hypocrite - we have all had enough of your perma-victim, perma- hatreds- mind numbingly useless rants.
============================
And we are sick to death of your cr@p and icj's cr@p etc. etc. but here you all are spewing more cr@p every day.
So if you don't like what I say then you are more than welcome to ignore me.
The problem for you is that you can't argue against what I say so you get frustrated and say the same old tired "if you don't like the west then get out of the wes" cr@p.
One more time, I have every right to criticize my government. That doesn't mean I should leve, doesn it?