You're seriously comparing and trying to present as equal 100 killed(among them 30 civilians) to over 8000 systematically killed and buried into a mass grave, then dug up and reburied, then dug up again and reburied?
It's a silly and morbid hair to split.
=====================
So, was Medak Pocket a genocide or not? You see, in Sreberenica women and children were lot go while Medak saw everyone, including the livestock killed. Which one is genocide?
If I am not mistaken, Serbs were accused and convicted of GENOCIDE in Bosnia, thus anyone in his/her right mind is inclined to believe that a international court full of non-serbs would know this better than you.
(Denis, 15 July 2014 20:29)
Show me one verdict that says that a serb was convicted for genocide. And if they wanted to kill the women or Children it couldve been done easily instead of deporting them.
It is a genocide, and although it does not compare to what Germans committed.
Serbs operated in different time and era. Of course they could not have killed woman and children because it would have been very detremental to them, thus practical matters, not because of the humanitarian reasons.
If I am not mistaken, Serbs were accused and convicted of GENOCIDE in Bosnia, thus anyone in his/her right mind is inclined to believe that a international court full of non-serbs would know this better than you.
I'm just answering your questions, Daniel. If you are unable to handle it, it's not my problem
(Danilo, 15 July 2014 13:43)
There is one you fail to answer, why do you live in a country surrounded by people you hate? Are you insane?
(Daniel)
Hey Danilo
This Daniel got your number. you need to get a life dude. get off the internet for a change. bizarre when you got to find dates and talk by a computer all the time. mental illness is right.
oops. different thread. sorry. This is the thread about how the fact that they found over 8100 muslim bodies in 3 mass graves and how some people are arguing about how this is genocide because it fits the current legal definition of genocide and how other are arguing that it isn't genocide because that would make them sad.
We're talking about the fact that the notion that 3000 Serbs murdered around Srebrenica doesn't match-up with VS's and RS's own statistics and how this is just an odious form of Srebrenica denial from some septic corners of Serbia society.
Does understanding MY motivations in life add to the discussion? It's irrelevant.
In short, what's wrong with you?
(Danilo, 15 July 2014 12:28)
That is one question you should ask yourself living in a country that you obviously hate. Hey its not our fault that your wife left you for a real serb, get over it.
Just Another one of your lies, the Sarajevo based research institute have totally different numbers.
(Daniel, 15 July 2014 01:38)
Ok. So, you say I'm wrong. Show me other verifiable sources, if you don't like mine. It's not enough to say "you're wrong" just because something doesn't fit with your worldview. Show me more correct sources, then.
Of course it did, the same kangarooo Court that released Haradinaj and Gotovina hahaha please come up with some more anti-serbian sources.
(Daniel, 15 July 2014 01:42)
Dude... you told me the Hague and UN didn't rule it a genocide and I showed you that they did. Now you're saying "those don't count", but it was you who mentioned those two institutions in the first place. In short, what's wrong with you?
It's a silly and morbid hair to split. Serb forces tried to erase Bosniaks from eastern bosnia. They did this by killing the men and boys, deporting the women and destroying the houses left behind. This has been defined as genocide by the UN. To be "definitionalist" about it kind of misses the point. OK, you don't want to call it a genocide, you prefer that it's called something else just because there were worse genocides? Seems like a silly preoccupation. Don't cry to me, cry to the UN, because what happened falls under the definition of genocide, and arguing that's it's not so because not enough grandmothers were killed and the kids were potentially vulnerable to be conscripted as child soldiers, so fair game, seems kind of pointless.
how is that possible without killing the women?
(Daniel, 14 July 2014 14:52)
By deporting them and killing their husbands and sons?
(Danilo, 14 July 2014 15:41)
==============================
Oh really Sherlock? Then why did the Nazis kill Jewish women and children too? Why not just kill their men and sons and call it a day?
That's gonocide not what happened in Srebrenica.
Do you even know what genocide is or are you just happy to use it in order to blacken the Serbs even more?
What an insult to the Jews that what happened to them was no more than what happened to the Muslim men of Srebrenica.
the International Commission of Missing Persons have been examining the remains (found in 3 different mass graves, some of the victims with bones in each of the graves) and comparing the DNA to living relatives .since 2001. They've been identifying about 2 bodies a day for the last 13 years. You see, this painstaking work by dozens of forensic scientists takes a lot more work than dismissing it out-of-hand as a "hoax". The number so far is amost 7000 positively identified (and buried) and 1200 identified as individual remains.
Just Another one of your lies, the Sarajevo based research institute have totally different numbers.
Last but not least the number 8000 is very very exaggerated since thousands of those that were listed as dead somehow has appeared to be alive, just one more propaganda hoax just like the Markale was.
(Daniel, 14 July 2014 16:48)
Nope.
the International Commission of Missing Persons have been examining the remains (found in 3 different mass graves, some of the victims with bones in each of the graves) and comparing the DNA to living relatives .since 2001. They've been identifying about 2 bodies a day for the last 13 years. You see, this painstaking work by dozens of forensic scientists takes a lot more work than dismissing it out-of-hand as a "hoax". The number so far is amost 7000 positively identified (and buried) and 1200 identified as individual remains.
Daniel, you're arguing that because the dead were old enough to be soldiers, they were soldiers. Silly.
As for your earlier comments, I think you're missing the "in part" part of the genocide definition.
as for:
And by the way both UN and the Hague ruled it wasnt a genocide but I guess you know better.
(Daniel, 14 July 2014 16:49)
It would appear that I do. ICTY defined what happened in Srebrenica as genocide in the Krstic trial in 2001. Subsequently, the International Court of Justice, an organ of the UN, defined it as genocide.
By deporting them and killing their husbands and sons?
(Danilo, 14 July 2014 15:41)
That doesnt prevent them from getting married again and get other children now does it? If the intent was to commit genocide why were they deported and not killed which shouldve been an easy task. Last but not least the number 8000 is very very exaggerated since thousands of those that were listed as dead somehow has appeared to be alive, just one more propaganda hoax just like the Markale was.
order to determine whether the massacre victims were killed because of their ethno-religious affiliation or because of their military status, one must have a clear understanding of who the victims are.
The ICMP has been using DNA extracted from the remains of the massacre victims in order to ascertain their identity. According to their findings, 87.9% of the victims are Muslims and 89.8% are males between the ages of 16 and 60. The same pattern holds true for Muslim men -- about 90% of all identified Muslim men were 16-60 years old.[14]
When evaluating the question of genocidal intent it is noteworthy that, with relatively few exceptions, almost all of the massacre victims are Muslims. Equally noteworthy is the fact that, again with relatively few exceptions, almost all of the massacre victims are men between the ages of 16 and 60.
The significance of men between the age of 16 and 60 is that all of the men between the ages of 16 and 60 in Srebrenica had been drafted.[15]
All drafted, since when is killing Soldiers a genocide?
All that blather, and no mention of Belgrade's central role in he genocide
It wasnt a genocide, do you even know what the definition of a genocide is? Intent to partially or completely whipe out a certain nation, now tell me, how is that possible without killing the women?
Michael Thomas, 12 July 2014 12:40)
And we are to believe that the Serb reports, which have been discredited many times before are somehow MORE accurate than western reports????
"ur beloved icty ruled that Belgrade did not play the central role in this alleged genocide, go and complain to somebody.... muSSlims dig out all the perished in battles and present them as "innocent" civilians - Taqyyia alert
(@robertofrisko, 12 July 2014 21:42)"
They ruled it wasn't genocide. They DID NOT rule it wasn't a war crime and they certainly didn't find anything like this absolutely ridiculous conspiracy theory.
Serbs constantly making excuses for their own wrong doings. There are 2 major events that the world will never forget and that is (1) Aushwitz & (2) Srebrenica Genocide. This is why people like Mladic & Seselj will never be released. The Serbian bloodline has been contaminated by 500 years of Ottoman rule. Its turned them into uneducated crazed sadists with a total disregard for human life.
Not exactly. Serbian troops entered UN protected zone where 1000s of refugees were located in a factory, they separated boys and men and transported them with buses to forests where they were executed. And yes, we don't have exact numbers, but some 1000s were identified by fornesec and genetic methods and buried in Potocari. And every year, there are bones of new victims identified and buried.
(Comm. Parrisson, 11 July 2014 20:19)
==========================
Do you know what was happening to the Serbs in the are BEFORE Serbian troops moved in or is that not important?
Should Mladic have stayed away and let the Muslims commit genocide against the Serbs there because that would be better than stopping it at all cost?
One more question. What is genocide? Extermination of a certain ethnic or religious group or killing some and letting more out alive and well?
Muslims were killing ALL Serbs not just males before Mladic decided to end it.
If I am wrong here do let me know what the real truth is.
ur beloved icty ruled that Belgrade did not play the central role in this alleged genocide, go and complain to somebody.... muSSlims dig out all the perished in battles and present them as "innocent" civilians - Taqyyia alert
Its funny how everyone is up in flames over this happening. But not one person asked why this happen in the first place. Not saying its right. Just saying not one single person has ever asked why this happen.
If you don't know what happened at Srebanica, how can you know the official Western story is incomplete and probably incorrect.
(Marko K., 11 July 2014 22:34)
The official NATO story makes no mention of the Moslem army breakout of Srebrenica. The Bosnian Serb Army reported that over 600 Serbian soldiers were killed by Moslem troops. If 600 Serbian troops were killed even though they were in well-prepared defensive position, then how many Moslem attackers fell in battle? Moslem soldiers killed in battle are never mentioned by NATO propagandists. It is for this reason that I know the official story is flawed and designed for some of the Chumps that haunt this site.
When is the world going to mark the real Bosnian genocide? The one carried out by bosnian muslim terrorists against the Serbs of Podrinje and other areas of Bosnia. And what about the genocide of Operation Storm carried out by Croatia and NATO against the Krajina Serb population.
A more accurate ending to your post would be I choose to not know exactly what happened and whatever the official story is I will choose not to believe it.
(a New Day, 11 July 2014 22:21)
Not that MT needs defending from someone else, but don't put words in his mouth. What evidence do you have to accuse him of denying Srebrenica, or is that what you what to think? It was a pretty straightforward statement - we won't really know the exact number of those killed; just as we won't know the exact numbers of those killed in countless other incidents in the Yugoslav civil wars - including those where Serbs were also victims. Of course no other event gets covered (and yes I will say for political reasons) as Srebrenica but that should not force us to separate this one event from the entire event of senseless madness of people who were once neighbors and relatives turning on each other in idiotic national patriotism.
A sad loss. A terrible, tragic, useless loss it all was. And for what? So people can fight semantics over it online years and years later? We should remember Srebrenica along with everything else: Bratunac, Vukovar, Storm, and everything else that happened before and after. Otherwise peace and reconciliation will never come.
It is truly amazing the things that a people can convince themselves of. thankfully there is a handful of activists that have to try to fill in for Serbia's missing conscience...
(roberto, 11 July 2014 19:18)
Yes and you've never been one of them. Not now, not then, not ever. Tell me, are you as active in bringing to light Croatia's, Bosnia's, and Kosovo's missing conscience? Of course you're not, so stop acting like you're a voice of reason in a clangor of denial.
Thank goodness that there are some Serb military and even some Serb police officials who are sentenced to imprisonment for their culpable role in the Srebrenica massacre especially for those defendants who are receiving stiff prison sentences as a penalty.
All we have is a deliberately muddled story which suggests that Serbs entered a peaceful Moslem town, separated "men and boys" and then murdered them. I don't know what happened, but I know the official Western story is incomplete and probably incorrect.
(Michael Thomas, 11 July 2014 16:19)
A more accurate ending to your post would be I choose to not know exactly what happened and whatever the official story is I will choose not to believe it.
We probably will never know exactly how many were butchered at the hands of your kinsmen. Some of the mass graves are very well hidden. But your own news source reports that more than 6000 victims remains have been identified. Once it hit that level what difference does it make if it is 7000,8000 or 12000. It is enough for the the ICTY to rule it was a genocide at the hands of Serbs.
But even the designation of genocide is not really important it adds nothing to the actual facts that at the hands of Serbs the worst brutality on European soil since WW2 took place and those who deny it are just as morally responsible even if a criminal connection cannot be made.
"All we have is a deliberately muddled story which suggests that Serbs entered a peaceful Moslem town, separated "men and boys" and then murdered them. "
(Michael Thomas, 11 July 2014 16:19)
Not exactly. Serbian troops entered UN protected zone where 1000s of refugees were located in a factory, they separated boys and men and transported them with buses to forests where they were executed. And yes, we don't have exact numbers, but some 1000s were identified by fornesec and genetic methods and buried in Potocari. And every year, there are bones of new victims identified and buried.
All that blather, and no mention of Belgrade's central role in he genocide. It is truly amazing the things that a people can convince themselves of. thankfully there is a handful of activists that have to try to fill in for Serbia's missing conscience...
19 years after the event we stil have no reliable figures about how many Moslems were in the town, how many were evacuated, how many escaped, how many were killed in battle, and how many, if any, were massacred. All we have is a deliberately muddled story which suggests that Serbs entered a peaceful Moslem town, separated "men and boys" and then murdered them. I don't know what happened, but I know the official Western story is incomplete and probably incorrect.
(Michael Thomas, 11 July 2014 16:19)
19 years after the event we stil have no reliable figures about how many Moslems were in the town, how many were evacuated, how many escaped, how many were killed in battle, and how many, if any, were massacred. All we have is a deliberately muddled story which suggests that Serbs entered a peaceful Moslem town, separated "men and boys" and then murdered them. I don't know what happened, but I know the official Western story is incomplete and probably incorrect.
"The Serbian Parliament adopted on March 31 2010 its declaration condemning the crime in Srebrenica, but did not declare July 11 as day of remembrance."
And you can add the current Serbian president still denies to call the massacre a genocide, tries to downplay the number victims, and tries to qualify the crimes by always mentioning crimes against Serbs in the context and that 'all sides committed crimes'
19 years after the event we stil have no reliable figures about how many Moslems were in the town, how many were evacuated, how many escaped, how many were killed in battle, and how many, if any, were massacred. All we have is a deliberately muddled story which suggests that Serbs entered a peaceful Moslem town, separated "men and boys" and then murdered them. I don't know what happened, but I know the official Western story is incomplete and probably incorrect.
When is the world going to mark the real Bosnian genocide? The one carried out by bosnian muslim terrorists against the Serbs of Podrinje and other areas of Bosnia. And what about the genocide of Operation Storm carried out by Croatia and NATO against the Krajina Serb population.
19 years after the event we stil have no reliable figures about how many Moslems were in the town, how many were evacuated, how many escaped, how many were killed in battle, and how many, if any, were massacred. All we have is a deliberately muddled story which suggests that Serbs entered a peaceful Moslem town, separated "men and boys" and then murdered them. I don't know what happened, but I know the official Western story is incomplete and probably incorrect.
(Michael Thomas, 11 July 2014 16:19)
Its funny how everyone is up in flames over this happening. But not one person asked why this happen in the first place. Not saying its right. Just saying not one single person has ever asked why this happen.
"The Serbian Parliament adopted on March 31 2010 its declaration condemning the crime in Srebrenica, but did not declare July 11 as day of remembrance."
And you can add the current Serbian president still denies to call the massacre a genocide, tries to downplay the number victims, and tries to qualify the crimes by always mentioning crimes against Serbs in the context and that 'all sides committed crimes'
All we have is a deliberately muddled story which suggests that Serbs entered a peaceful Moslem town, separated "men and boys" and then murdered them. I don't know what happened, but I know the official Western story is incomplete and probably incorrect.
(Michael Thomas, 11 July 2014 16:19)
A more accurate ending to your post would be I choose to not know exactly what happened and whatever the official story is I will choose not to believe it.
We probably will never know exactly how many were butchered at the hands of your kinsmen. Some of the mass graves are very well hidden. But your own news source reports that more than 6000 victims remains have been identified. Once it hit that level what difference does it make if it is 7000,8000 or 12000. It is enough for the the ICTY to rule it was a genocide at the hands of Serbs.
But even the designation of genocide is not really important it adds nothing to the actual facts that at the hands of Serbs the worst brutality on European soil since WW2 took place and those who deny it are just as morally responsible even if a criminal connection cannot be made.
It is truly amazing the things that a people can convince themselves of. thankfully there is a handful of activists that have to try to fill in for Serbia's missing conscience...
(roberto, 11 July 2014 19:18)
Yes and you've never been one of them. Not now, not then, not ever. Tell me, are you as active in bringing to light Croatia's, Bosnia's, and Kosovo's missing conscience? Of course you're not, so stop acting like you're a voice of reason in a clangor of denial.
If you don't know what happened at Srebanica, how can you know the official Western story is incomplete and probably incorrect.
(Marko K., 11 July 2014 22:34)
The official NATO story makes no mention of the Moslem army breakout of Srebrenica. The Bosnian Serb Army reported that over 600 Serbian soldiers were killed by Moslem troops. If 600 Serbian troops were killed even though they were in well-prepared defensive position, then how many Moslem attackers fell in battle? Moslem soldiers killed in battle are never mentioned by NATO propagandists. It is for this reason that I know the official story is flawed and designed for some of the Chumps that haunt this site.
ur beloved icty ruled that Belgrade did not play the central role in this alleged genocide, go and complain to somebody.... muSSlims dig out all the perished in battles and present them as "innocent" civilians - Taqyyia alert
All that blather, and no mention of Belgrade's central role in he genocide. It is truly amazing the things that a people can convince themselves of. thankfully there is a handful of activists that have to try to fill in for Serbia's missing conscience...
"All we have is a deliberately muddled story which suggests that Serbs entered a peaceful Moslem town, separated "men and boys" and then murdered them. "
(Michael Thomas, 11 July 2014 16:19)
Not exactly. Serbian troops entered UN protected zone where 1000s of refugees were located in a factory, they separated boys and men and transported them with buses to forests where they were executed. And yes, we don't have exact numbers, but some 1000s were identified by fornesec and genetic methods and buried in Potocari. And every year, there are bones of new victims identified and buried.
Thank goodness that there are some Serb military and even some Serb police officials who are sentenced to imprisonment for their culpable role in the Srebrenica massacre especially for those defendants who are receiving stiff prison sentences as a penalty.
A more accurate ending to your post would be I choose to not know exactly what happened and whatever the official story is I will choose not to believe it.
(a New Day, 11 July 2014 22:21)
Not that MT needs defending from someone else, but don't put words in his mouth. What evidence do you have to accuse him of denying Srebrenica, or is that what you what to think? It was a pretty straightforward statement - we won't really know the exact number of those killed; just as we won't know the exact numbers of those killed in countless other incidents in the Yugoslav civil wars - including those where Serbs were also victims. Of course no other event gets covered (and yes I will say for political reasons) as Srebrenica but that should not force us to separate this one event from the entire event of senseless madness of people who were once neighbors and relatives turning on each other in idiotic national patriotism.
A sad loss. A terrible, tragic, useless loss it all was. And for what? So people can fight semantics over it online years and years later? We should remember Srebrenica along with everything else: Bratunac, Vukovar, Storm, and everything else that happened before and after. Otherwise peace and reconciliation will never come.
Michael Thomas, 12 July 2014 12:40)
And we are to believe that the Serb reports, which have been discredited many times before are somehow MORE accurate than western reports????
Not exactly. Serbian troops entered UN protected zone where 1000s of refugees were located in a factory, they separated boys and men and transported them with buses to forests where they were executed. And yes, we don't have exact numbers, but some 1000s were identified by fornesec and genetic methods and buried in Potocari. And every year, there are bones of new victims identified and buried.
(Comm. Parrisson, 11 July 2014 20:19)
==========================
Do you know what was happening to the Serbs in the are BEFORE Serbian troops moved in or is that not important?
Should Mladic have stayed away and let the Muslims commit genocide against the Serbs there because that would be better than stopping it at all cost?
One more question. What is genocide? Extermination of a certain ethnic or religious group or killing some and letting more out alive and well?
Muslims were killing ALL Serbs not just males before Mladic decided to end it.
If I am wrong here do let me know what the real truth is.
Serbs constantly making excuses for their own wrong doings. There are 2 major events that the world will never forget and that is (1) Aushwitz & (2) Srebrenica Genocide. This is why people like Mladic & Seselj will never be released. The Serbian bloodline has been contaminated by 500 years of Ottoman rule. Its turned them into uneducated crazed sadists with a total disregard for human life.
Daniel, you're arguing that because the dead were old enough to be soldiers, they were soldiers. Silly.
As for your earlier comments, I think you're missing the "in part" part of the genocide definition.
as for:
And by the way both UN and the Hague ruled it wasnt a genocide but I guess you know better.
(Daniel, 14 July 2014 16:49)
It would appear that I do. ICTY defined what happened in Srebrenica as genocide in the Krstic trial in 2001. Subsequently, the International Court of Justice, an organ of the UN, defined it as genocide.
Last but not least the number 8000 is very very exaggerated since thousands of those that were listed as dead somehow has appeared to be alive, just one more propaganda hoax just like the Markale was.
(Daniel, 14 July 2014 16:48)
Nope.
the International Commission of Missing Persons have been examining the remains (found in 3 different mass graves, some of the victims with bones in each of the graves) and comparing the DNA to living relatives .since 2001. They've been identifying about 2 bodies a day for the last 13 years. You see, this painstaking work by dozens of forensic scientists takes a lot more work than dismissing it out-of-hand as a "hoax". The number so far is amost 7000 positively identified (and buried) and 1200 identified as individual remains.
"ur beloved icty ruled that Belgrade did not play the central role in this alleged genocide, go and complain to somebody.... muSSlims dig out all the perished in battles and present them as "innocent" civilians - Taqyyia alert
(@robertofrisko, 12 July 2014 21:42)"
They ruled it wasn't genocide. They DID NOT rule it wasn't a war crime and they certainly didn't find anything like this absolutely ridiculous conspiracy theory.
Just Another one of your lies, the Sarajevo based research institute have totally different numbers.
(Daniel, 15 July 2014 01:38)
Ok. So, you say I'm wrong. Show me other verifiable sources, if you don't like mine. It's not enough to say "you're wrong" just because something doesn't fit with your worldview. Show me more correct sources, then.
Of course it did, the same kangarooo Court that released Haradinaj and Gotovina hahaha please come up with some more anti-serbian sources.
(Daniel, 15 July 2014 01:42)
Dude... you told me the Hague and UN didn't rule it a genocide and I showed you that they did. Now you're saying "those don't count", but it was you who mentioned those two institutions in the first place. In short, what's wrong with you?
All that blather, and no mention of Belgrade's central role in he genocide
It wasnt a genocide, do you even know what the definition of a genocide is? Intent to partially or completely whipe out a certain nation, now tell me, how is that possible without killing the women?
By deporting them and killing their husbands and sons?
(Danilo, 14 July 2014 15:41)
That doesnt prevent them from getting married again and get other children now does it? If the intent was to commit genocide why were they deported and not killed which shouldve been an easy task. Last but not least the number 8000 is very very exaggerated since thousands of those that were listed as dead somehow has appeared to be alive, just one more propaganda hoax just like the Markale was.
how is that possible without killing the women?
(Daniel, 14 July 2014 14:52)
By deporting them and killing their husbands and sons?
(Danilo, 14 July 2014 15:41)
==============================
Oh really Sherlock? Then why did the Nazis kill Jewish women and children too? Why not just kill their men and sons and call it a day?
That's gonocide not what happened in Srebrenica.
Do you even know what genocide is or are you just happy to use it in order to blacken the Serbs even more?
What an insult to the Jews that what happened to them was no more than what happened to the Muslim men of Srebrenica.
In short, what's wrong with you?
(Danilo, 15 July 2014 12:28)
That is one question you should ask yourself living in a country that you obviously hate. Hey its not our fault that your wife left you for a real serb, get over it.
We're talking about the fact that the notion that 3000 Serbs murdered around Srebrenica doesn't match-up with VS's and RS's own statistics and how this is just an odious form of Srebrenica denial from some septic corners of Serbia society.
Does understanding MY motivations in life add to the discussion? It's irrelevant.
I'm just answering your questions, Daniel. If you are unable to handle it, it's not my problem
(Danilo, 15 July 2014 13:43)
There is one you fail to answer, why do you live in a country surrounded by people you hate? Are you insane?
(Daniel)
Hey Danilo
This Daniel got your number. you need to get a life dude. get off the internet for a change. bizarre when you got to find dates and talk by a computer all the time. mental illness is right.
It is a genocide, and although it does not compare to what Germans committed.
Serbs operated in different time and era. Of course they could not have killed woman and children because it would have been very detremental to them, thus practical matters, not because of the humanitarian reasons.
If I am not mistaken, Serbs were accused and convicted of GENOCIDE in Bosnia, thus anyone in his/her right mind is inclined to believe that a international court full of non-serbs would know this better than you.
If I am not mistaken, Serbs were accused and convicted of GENOCIDE in Bosnia, thus anyone in his/her right mind is inclined to believe that a international court full of non-serbs would know this better than you.
(Denis, 15 July 2014 20:29)
Show me one verdict that says that a serb was convicted for genocide. And if they wanted to kill the women or Children it couldve been done easily instead of deporting them.
order to determine whether the massacre victims were killed because of their ethno-religious affiliation or because of their military status, one must have a clear understanding of who the victims are.
The ICMP has been using DNA extracted from the remains of the massacre victims in order to ascertain their identity. According to their findings, 87.9% of the victims are Muslims and 89.8% are males between the ages of 16 and 60. The same pattern holds true for Muslim men -- about 90% of all identified Muslim men were 16-60 years old.[14]
When evaluating the question of genocidal intent it is noteworthy that, with relatively few exceptions, almost all of the massacre victims are Muslims. Equally noteworthy is the fact that, again with relatively few exceptions, almost all of the massacre victims are men between the ages of 16 and 60.
The significance of men between the age of 16 and 60 is that all of the men between the ages of 16 and 60 in Srebrenica had been drafted.[15]
All drafted, since when is killing Soldiers a genocide?
the International Commission of Missing Persons have been examining the remains (found in 3 different mass graves, some of the victims with bones in each of the graves) and comparing the DNA to living relatives .since 2001. They've been identifying about 2 bodies a day for the last 13 years. You see, this painstaking work by dozens of forensic scientists takes a lot more work than dismissing it out-of-hand as a "hoax". The number so far is amost 7000 positively identified (and buried) and 1200 identified as individual remains.
Just Another one of your lies, the Sarajevo based research institute have totally different numbers.
It's a silly and morbid hair to split. Serb forces tried to erase Bosniaks from eastern bosnia. They did this by killing the men and boys, deporting the women and destroying the houses left behind. This has been defined as genocide by the UN. To be "definitionalist" about it kind of misses the point. OK, you don't want to call it a genocide, you prefer that it's called something else just because there were worse genocides? Seems like a silly preoccupation. Don't cry to me, cry to the UN, because what happened falls under the definition of genocide, and arguing that's it's not so because not enough grandmothers were killed and the kids were potentially vulnerable to be conscripted as child soldiers, so fair game, seems kind of pointless.
oops. different thread. sorry. This is the thread about how the fact that they found over 8100 muslim bodies in 3 mass graves and how some people are arguing about how this is genocide because it fits the current legal definition of genocide and how other are arguing that it isn't genocide because that would make them sad.
It's a silly and morbid hair to split.
=====================
So, was Medak Pocket a genocide or not? You see, in Sreberenica women and children were lot go while Medak saw everyone, including the livestock killed. Which one is genocide?
You're seriously comparing and trying to present as equal 100 killed(among them 30 civilians) to over 8000 systematically killed and buried into a mass grave, then dug up and reburied, then dug up again and reburied?
"The Serbian Parliament adopted on March 31 2010 its declaration condemning the crime in Srebrenica, but did not declare July 11 as day of remembrance."
And you can add the current Serbian president still denies to call the massacre a genocide, tries to downplay the number victims, and tries to qualify the crimes by always mentioning crimes against Serbs in the context and that 'all sides committed crimes'
All that blather, and no mention of Belgrade's central role in he genocide. It is truly amazing the things that a people can convince themselves of. thankfully there is a handful of activists that have to try to fill in for Serbia's missing conscience...
19 years after the event we stil have no reliable figures about how many Moslems were in the town, how many were evacuated, how many escaped, how many were killed in battle, and how many, if any, were massacred. All we have is a deliberately muddled story which suggests that Serbs entered a peaceful Moslem town, separated "men and boys" and then murdered them. I don't know what happened, but I know the official Western story is incomplete and probably incorrect.
All we have is a deliberately muddled story which suggests that Serbs entered a peaceful Moslem town, separated "men and boys" and then murdered them. I don't know what happened, but I know the official Western story is incomplete and probably incorrect.
(Michael Thomas, 11 July 2014 16:19)
A more accurate ending to your post would be I choose to not know exactly what happened and whatever the official story is I will choose not to believe it.
We probably will never know exactly how many were butchered at the hands of your kinsmen. Some of the mass graves are very well hidden. But your own news source reports that more than 6000 victims remains have been identified. Once it hit that level what difference does it make if it is 7000,8000 or 12000. It is enough for the the ICTY to rule it was a genocide at the hands of Serbs.
But even the designation of genocide is not really important it adds nothing to the actual facts that at the hands of Serbs the worst brutality on European soil since WW2 took place and those who deny it are just as morally responsible even if a criminal connection cannot be made.
19 years after the event we stil have no reliable figures about how many Moslems were in the town, how many were evacuated, how many escaped, how many were killed in battle, and how many, if any, were massacred. All we have is a deliberately muddled story which suggests that Serbs entered a peaceful Moslem town, separated "men and boys" and then murdered them. I don't know what happened, but I know the official Western story is incomplete and probably incorrect.
(Michael Thomas, 11 July 2014 16:19)
Thank goodness that there are some Serb military and even some Serb police officials who are sentenced to imprisonment for their culpable role in the Srebrenica massacre especially for those defendants who are receiving stiff prison sentences as a penalty.
"All we have is a deliberately muddled story which suggests that Serbs entered a peaceful Moslem town, separated "men and boys" and then murdered them. "
(Michael Thomas, 11 July 2014 16:19)
Not exactly. Serbian troops entered UN protected zone where 1000s of refugees were located in a factory, they separated boys and men and transported them with buses to forests where they were executed. And yes, we don't have exact numbers, but some 1000s were identified by fornesec and genetic methods and buried in Potocari. And every year, there are bones of new victims identified and buried.
It is truly amazing the things that a people can convince themselves of. thankfully there is a handful of activists that have to try to fill in for Serbia's missing conscience...
(roberto, 11 July 2014 19:18)
Yes and you've never been one of them. Not now, not then, not ever. Tell me, are you as active in bringing to light Croatia's, Bosnia's, and Kosovo's missing conscience? Of course you're not, so stop acting like you're a voice of reason in a clangor of denial.
When is the world going to mark the real Bosnian genocide? The one carried out by bosnian muslim terrorists against the Serbs of Podrinje and other areas of Bosnia. And what about the genocide of Operation Storm carried out by Croatia and NATO against the Krajina Serb population.
ur beloved icty ruled that Belgrade did not play the central role in this alleged genocide, go and complain to somebody.... muSSlims dig out all the perished in battles and present them as "innocent" civilians - Taqyyia alert
A more accurate ending to your post would be I choose to not know exactly what happened and whatever the official story is I will choose not to believe it.
(a New Day, 11 July 2014 22:21)
Not that MT needs defending from someone else, but don't put words in his mouth. What evidence do you have to accuse him of denying Srebrenica, or is that what you what to think? It was a pretty straightforward statement - we won't really know the exact number of those killed; just as we won't know the exact numbers of those killed in countless other incidents in the Yugoslav civil wars - including those where Serbs were also victims. Of course no other event gets covered (and yes I will say for political reasons) as Srebrenica but that should not force us to separate this one event from the entire event of senseless madness of people who were once neighbors and relatives turning on each other in idiotic national patriotism.
A sad loss. A terrible, tragic, useless loss it all was. And for what? So people can fight semantics over it online years and years later? We should remember Srebrenica along with everything else: Bratunac, Vukovar, Storm, and everything else that happened before and after. Otherwise peace and reconciliation will never come.
If you don't know what happened at Srebanica, how can you know the official Western story is incomplete and probably incorrect.
(Marko K., 11 July 2014 22:34)
The official NATO story makes no mention of the Moslem army breakout of Srebrenica. The Bosnian Serb Army reported that over 600 Serbian soldiers were killed by Moslem troops. If 600 Serbian troops were killed even though they were in well-prepared defensive position, then how many Moslem attackers fell in battle? Moslem soldiers killed in battle are never mentioned by NATO propagandists. It is for this reason that I know the official story is flawed and designed for some of the Chumps that haunt this site.
Not exactly. Serbian troops entered UN protected zone where 1000s of refugees were located in a factory, they separated boys and men and transported them with buses to forests where they were executed. And yes, we don't have exact numbers, but some 1000s were identified by fornesec and genetic methods and buried in Potocari. And every year, there are bones of new victims identified and buried.
(Comm. Parrisson, 11 July 2014 20:19)
==========================
Do you know what was happening to the Serbs in the are BEFORE Serbian troops moved in or is that not important?
Should Mladic have stayed away and let the Muslims commit genocide against the Serbs there because that would be better than stopping it at all cost?
One more question. What is genocide? Extermination of a certain ethnic or religious group or killing some and letting more out alive and well?
Muslims were killing ALL Serbs not just males before Mladic decided to end it.
If I am wrong here do let me know what the real truth is.
Serbs constantly making excuses for their own wrong doings. There are 2 major events that the world will never forget and that is (1) Aushwitz & (2) Srebrenica Genocide. This is why people like Mladic & Seselj will never be released. The Serbian bloodline has been contaminated by 500 years of Ottoman rule. Its turned them into uneducated crazed sadists with a total disregard for human life.
All that blather, and no mention of Belgrade's central role in he genocide
It wasnt a genocide, do you even know what the definition of a genocide is? Intent to partially or completely whipe out a certain nation, now tell me, how is that possible without killing the women?
Michael Thomas, 12 July 2014 12:40)
And we are to believe that the Serb reports, which have been discredited many times before are somehow MORE accurate than western reports????
By deporting them and killing their husbands and sons?
(Danilo, 14 July 2014 15:41)
That doesnt prevent them from getting married again and get other children now does it? If the intent was to commit genocide why were they deported and not killed which shouldve been an easy task. Last but not least the number 8000 is very very exaggerated since thousands of those that were listed as dead somehow has appeared to be alive, just one more propaganda hoax just like the Markale was.
how is that possible without killing the women?
(Daniel, 14 July 2014 14:52)
By deporting them and killing their husbands and sons?
(Danilo, 14 July 2014 15:41)
==============================
Oh really Sherlock? Then why did the Nazis kill Jewish women and children too? Why not just kill their men and sons and call it a day?
That's gonocide not what happened in Srebrenica.
Do you even know what genocide is or are you just happy to use it in order to blacken the Serbs even more?
What an insult to the Jews that what happened to them was no more than what happened to the Muslim men of Srebrenica.
Its funny how everyone is up in flames over this happening. But not one person asked why this happen in the first place. Not saying its right. Just saying not one single person has ever asked why this happen.
"ur beloved icty ruled that Belgrade did not play the central role in this alleged genocide, go and complain to somebody.... muSSlims dig out all the perished in battles and present them as "innocent" civilians - Taqyyia alert
(@robertofrisko, 12 July 2014 21:42)"
They ruled it wasn't genocide. They DID NOT rule it wasn't a war crime and they certainly didn't find anything like this absolutely ridiculous conspiracy theory.
order to determine whether the massacre victims were killed because of their ethno-religious affiliation or because of their military status, one must have a clear understanding of who the victims are.
The ICMP has been using DNA extracted from the remains of the massacre victims in order to ascertain their identity. According to their findings, 87.9% of the victims are Muslims and 89.8% are males between the ages of 16 and 60. The same pattern holds true for Muslim men -- about 90% of all identified Muslim men were 16-60 years old.[14]
When evaluating the question of genocidal intent it is noteworthy that, with relatively few exceptions, almost all of the massacre victims are Muslims. Equally noteworthy is the fact that, again with relatively few exceptions, almost all of the massacre victims are men between the ages of 16 and 60.
The significance of men between the age of 16 and 60 is that all of the men between the ages of 16 and 60 in Srebrenica had been drafted.[15]
All drafted, since when is killing Soldiers a genocide?
Last but not least the number 8000 is very very exaggerated since thousands of those that were listed as dead somehow has appeared to be alive, just one more propaganda hoax just like the Markale was.
(Daniel, 14 July 2014 16:48)
Nope.
the International Commission of Missing Persons have been examining the remains (found in 3 different mass graves, some of the victims with bones in each of the graves) and comparing the DNA to living relatives .since 2001. They've been identifying about 2 bodies a day for the last 13 years. You see, this painstaking work by dozens of forensic scientists takes a lot more work than dismissing it out-of-hand as a "hoax". The number so far is amost 7000 positively identified (and buried) and 1200 identified as individual remains.
the International Commission of Missing Persons have been examining the remains (found in 3 different mass graves, some of the victims with bones in each of the graves) and comparing the DNA to living relatives .since 2001. They've been identifying about 2 bodies a day for the last 13 years. You see, this painstaking work by dozens of forensic scientists takes a lot more work than dismissing it out-of-hand as a "hoax". The number so far is amost 7000 positively identified (and buried) and 1200 identified as individual remains.
Just Another one of your lies, the Sarajevo based research institute have totally different numbers.
We're talking about the fact that the notion that 3000 Serbs murdered around Srebrenica doesn't match-up with VS's and RS's own statistics and how this is just an odious form of Srebrenica denial from some septic corners of Serbia society.
Does understanding MY motivations in life add to the discussion? It's irrelevant.
If I am not mistaken, Serbs were accused and convicted of GENOCIDE in Bosnia, thus anyone in his/her right mind is inclined to believe that a international court full of non-serbs would know this better than you.
(Denis, 15 July 2014 20:29)
Show me one verdict that says that a serb was convicted for genocide. And if they wanted to kill the women or Children it couldve been done easily instead of deporting them.
It's a silly and morbid hair to split. Serb forces tried to erase Bosniaks from eastern bosnia. They did this by killing the men and boys, deporting the women and destroying the houses left behind. This has been defined as genocide by the UN. To be "definitionalist" about it kind of misses the point. OK, you don't want to call it a genocide, you prefer that it's called something else just because there were worse genocides? Seems like a silly preoccupation. Don't cry to me, cry to the UN, because what happened falls under the definition of genocide, and arguing that's it's not so because not enough grandmothers were killed and the kids were potentially vulnerable to be conscripted as child soldiers, so fair game, seems kind of pointless.
Just Another one of your lies, the Sarajevo based research institute have totally different numbers.
(Daniel, 15 July 2014 01:38)
Ok. So, you say I'm wrong. Show me other verifiable sources, if you don't like mine. It's not enough to say "you're wrong" just because something doesn't fit with your worldview. Show me more correct sources, then.
Of course it did, the same kangarooo Court that released Haradinaj and Gotovina hahaha please come up with some more anti-serbian sources.
(Daniel, 15 July 2014 01:42)
Dude... you told me the Hague and UN didn't rule it a genocide and I showed you that they did. Now you're saying "those don't count", but it was you who mentioned those two institutions in the first place. In short, what's wrong with you?
In short, what's wrong with you?
(Danilo, 15 July 2014 12:28)
That is one question you should ask yourself living in a country that you obviously hate. Hey its not our fault that your wife left you for a real serb, get over it.
I'm just answering your questions, Daniel. If you are unable to handle it, it's not my problem
(Danilo, 15 July 2014 13:43)
There is one you fail to answer, why do you live in a country surrounded by people you hate? Are you insane?
(Daniel)
Hey Danilo
This Daniel got your number. you need to get a life dude. get off the internet for a change. bizarre when you got to find dates and talk by a computer all the time. mental illness is right.
It is a genocide, and although it does not compare to what Germans committed.
Serbs operated in different time and era. Of course they could not have killed woman and children because it would have been very detremental to them, thus practical matters, not because of the humanitarian reasons.
If I am not mistaken, Serbs were accused and convicted of GENOCIDE in Bosnia, thus anyone in his/her right mind is inclined to believe that a international court full of non-serbs would know this better than you.
It's a silly and morbid hair to split.
=====================
So, was Medak Pocket a genocide or not? You see, in Sreberenica women and children were lot go while Medak saw everyone, including the livestock killed. Which one is genocide?
You're seriously comparing and trying to present as equal 100 killed(among them 30 civilians) to over 8000 systematically killed and buried into a mass grave, then dug up and reburied, then dug up again and reburied?
Daniel, you're arguing that because the dead were old enough to be soldiers, they were soldiers. Silly.
As for your earlier comments, I think you're missing the "in part" part of the genocide definition.
as for:
And by the way both UN and the Hague ruled it wasnt a genocide but I guess you know better.
(Daniel, 14 July 2014 16:49)
It would appear that I do. ICTY defined what happened in Srebrenica as genocide in the Krstic trial in 2001. Subsequently, the International Court of Justice, an organ of the UN, defined it as genocide.
oops. different thread. sorry. This is the thread about how the fact that they found over 8100 muslim bodies in 3 mass graves and how some people are arguing about how this is genocide because it fits the current legal definition of genocide and how other are arguing that it isn't genocide because that would make them sad.
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