Court confirms: Šešelj to remain in custody

It will be a great day when you stop coming on this site with your BS.

Why did the trial chamber issue the propio motu order on provisional release on June 13th?
Notably, if one examines the detailed chronology of events, Seselj's demand for compensation on June 10th that itemizes the unlawful detention, preceded the propio motu order by three days.

The claims of unlawful detention refer to relevant aspects of different Laws and provided for a rather strong argument. On the simple basis of the chronological order of events, it is obvious that the propio motu order was issued as a reaction to Seselj's claims for unlawful detention and represent a feeble attempt by the trial chamber to try to conceal its action of unlawful detention.

Prediction: In its decision on the merits of claims for unlawful detention, the Trial Chamber will use its post-hoc propio motu order as evidence of its attempt to provide for the "release" of the accused.

The circus of the ICTY will have reached a new low when its machinations and lunacy become so predictable.

They had a verdict and had to keep it secret because a judge opposed all not guilty verdicts in a letter he sent so they need a new judge to read everything. They need to just deal with the fact this trial has failed and has turned into a crime against humanity itself.

A great day, in the fight against radicalism & extremism!
He is no better then the many terrorist that have infected the world, this man comes from one of Europe's largest terrorist breeders, Serbia!!!

seselj doesn't respond to the offer for release..... cue the flood of people crying how it's all the court's fault he didn't respond

(Danilo, 10 July 2014 19:58),

The flood of crying that you hear is not for Seselj. Most International Criminal Law experts are ignorant of or indifferent to Seselj's politics, however, they are concerned that the ICTY is abusing its own rules and procedures as well as the norms of Law. Some reputable Jurists are indeed crying as they watch the ICTY kill itself.

(curious, 11 July 2014 13:01),

The ICTY was established as a criminal tribunal and not a moral tribunal. There are thousands of victims of true war crimes that deserve justice and not discussions about morality. Unfortunately, the organs of the ICTY (President, OTP, Registrar etc) demonstrated little to no proficiency in the judicial implementation of criminal proceedings.

Humankind has yet to pass judgement on the ICTY but after this organization assumes it rightful place on the dust heap, the actions of the tribunal in the Seselj case make it more than likely to be held in the same regard as the middle-age inquisitions, 18th century witch hunts and 20th century McCarthiasm show trials.

I recognize that it is not possible to assess all of the details in the many proceedings, but I do encourage you to read the ICTY June 6th Appeals Chamber decision rejecting Seselj's motion against continuation of proceedings. The decision of the Appeal Chamber is laughable. No competent lawyer can argue against a mistrial in this case, as the argument defies the plainly obvious. Although I have no doubt that the ICTY Judges' logic may enable them to repeal the Law of Gravity, objects will still fall to earth.

(curious, 10 July 2014 20:21):

Curious, yes there was a demand for compensation last year, which was rejected. However, the most recent submission on June 10th regarding unlawful detention is based on much stronger argument and only followed the June 6th decision rejecting the appeal against decision on
continuation of proceedings. The date of Judge Niang's demand for more time to familiarize himself with the evidence was later.

The discussion among international law circles centers on the rules and procedures that have been erroneously invoked to justify continuation of the Seselj case. Please read the June 6th dissenting opinion from Judge Afande to appreciate the absurdity of the situation and the clear disregard for the rules and procedures and the rights of the accused. The only jurisprudence and precedence that is being followed is the manipulation of the Judiciary by Meron to achieve political goals, as described by Judge Harhoff.
Following the Judge's own revelations about the scandalous manipulations of the process, the ICTY died. It has no credibility left among International Law Experts. Seselj's arguments about the illegality of the ICTY are moot. The ICTY killed itself.

Thus the judicial murder of innocent Serbian man and statesman Vojislav Seselj proceeds unhindered. Shame on those who put innocent Serbian man and statesman Vojislav Seselj on trial before a kangaroo court without any legal basis whatsoever.

The importance of the chronology of the events is evident from the June 6th, 2014 date when the Appeals Chamber rejected Seselj's motion against the continuation of the proceedings. Please note that this was published on Friday so that Seselj had only one working day to file his submission on unlawful detention on Tuesday June 10th, 2014.
It is also notable how many recent Seselj orders and decisions by the tribunal have been published on Friday, and most recently with 72 hour deadlines of response. All quite notable, as Seselj's communication with his advisors is controlled and restricted by ICTY so the use of weekend ultimatums and restricted communication speaks volumes about the scandalous and criminal manipulation by the corrupt arms of the ICTY.

(Andy UK, 11 July 2014 09:37)

Stick to cleaning bed pans as you have no idea about what goes on around you. You don’t even know the difference between a court and a tribunal.

Amnesty Yugoslavia, 11 July 2014 00:08)
I hear everything you say and eventhough you put it together a little better than most, it boils down to one man's opinion. One you probably had before, and sound more like a mouthpiece for Seselj, which is ok, but I do not think that it will change anything, and as far as ICTY killing itself??, its mandate is at an end and unless the UNSC creates some sort of oversight tribunal or court its work dies with it.
As most every thing else in history it can be debated on for centuries, but it will remain a part of history.
As you saw at the Jeremic fiasco, the majority of the world countries that really give a damn, support the ICTY in its works and that is doubtful to change by the end of the remaining trials.
But in the end your opinion, my opinion will always be that just an opinion.
Maybe once I retire, I will look into all the nitty gritty of the case but like Niang 6 months is too short and in the end you have one fact.
He did publicly encourage if not order the killing of innocent people and morally he is guilty.(My opinion which is not likely to change)

I recognize that it is not possible to assess all of the details in the many proceedings, but I do encourage you to read the ICTY June 6th Appeals Chamber decision rejecting Seselj's motion against continuation of proceedings. I recognize that it is not possible to assess all of the details in the many proceedings, but I do encourage you to read the ICTY June 6th Appeals Chamber decision rejecting Seselj's motion against continuation of proceedings. The decision of the Appeal Chamber is laughable. No competent lawyer can argue against a mistrial in this case, as the argument defies the plainly obvious. Although I have no doubt that the ICTY Judges' logic may enable them to repeal the Law of Gravity, objects will still fall to earth.
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 11 July 2014 17:08)

what you said above is the best evidence that you have no idea what you are talking about... Somebody making an argument never says "The decision of the Appeal Chamber is laughable" because that means nothing more than "trust me that what I'm saying is correct" when you are a nobody like everybody else in these forums.

If you want to make an argument about "The decision of the Appeal Chamber is laughable", at a minimum you have to cite a couple of things from the decision which made you laugh and why. You need to provide a reason on why you think you are correct... just "trust me" is not a reason :)

ICJ1 asserted "... you are a nobody like everybody else in these forums."

Dear ICJ1, Thank you for challenging me with this complex statement. I am limited to 1500 characters and so I will assume that you have a general knowledge in basic philisophy. My simple rebuttal to your philosophical hypothesis is that I am indeed an individual person. Similar to Existentialists, I believe that individuals should act independently as conscious beings —rather than what labels, roles, stereotypes, definitions, or other preconceived categories the individuals fit.

Your profound characterization of yourself and other members of these forums are reminiscent of Nihilistic or perhaps Absrudism philospohies.

Since I can't authoritatively label you a "nobody" or pigeon-hole you in a specific school of philosophical thought, perhaps you may better explain why you consider yourself and others on these forums as nobodies?

Why does no one ever mention the witness intimidation and contempt of court?

It makes me laugh all this talk of conspiracies - Courts and judges in western europe are completely spineless and people get off on all sorts of technicalities.

(Andy UK, 11 July 2014 09:37) who "laugh(s) all this talk of conspiracies" apparently should realize that loudest talker of conspiracy was Judge Harhoff of the ICTY who provided the euology for Meron and his national sponsors that manipulated the ICTY Judiciary. Andy, your laughter joins the many experts and hordes that are now both crying and laughing at this circus.

ICJ1,
You asked me to " cite a couple of things from the decision which made (me)laugh and why".
Please note that I did submit a response within the 1500 character limit citing 3 specific examples. One example demonstrated the contravention of ICTY own rules and procedures, a second example cited the inappropriate use of a rule, and the third example was the demonstration that the Appeal Chamber contravened a basic legal principle.

For reasons not entirly clear to me, my submission was not posted. I am curious, and suspicious, why comments about articles and subject matter would not be published? Odd? Concerned? My only recourse is again to refer you to read the Appeals Chamber decision and dissension.

Amnesty Yugoslavia, 10 July 2014 18:33
Was not Seselj's original motion for compensation of 12 million not done in November of 2013 or was someone using a crystal ball?

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/crimes.php?yyyy=2013&mm=11&dd=28&nav_id=88492

But wasn't the motion to release actually after Judge Niang issued a statement that he was not at the point on the 6 month deadline that he could participate with the other 2 judges and the chamber does not have a definitive dateline of when they can resume?
If they were worried about the motion for compensation would they not have acted 6 months ago.

Rather than rely on my submitted, but unposted, analysis of the laughable nature of the Appeal chamber decision, perhaps comments from prominent Jurists would convince you. There was much discussion last year on International Law forums about the Trial Chamber's decision to continue proceedings in the face of a textbook mistrial (duh, a biased Judge!). Much of the expert discussion anticipated the foolishness of the Appeal Chamber decision.
I consider it odd that the June 6th 2014 Appeal Chamber decision was not considered news worthy and not reported by this news organization, when all of the subsequent events pivoted around this decision. Perhaps readers would have been interested in Toma Fila's analysis of the Appeals Chamber decision? But who am I to make such a suggestion? As an ICJ1-labeled "nobody" I should sit quietly and simply stop challenging the excrement from the brave new world "somebodies".

It is not correct to say, Seselj did refuse to state whether he would comply with conditions set for his provisional release, which, by the way, were not freedom but imprisonement incommunicado locked in a house surrounded by police in Serbia. Seselj requested by phone from the Legal Liaison Officer to inform the chamber, that everything he had to say on the matter has already been said in his previous submission no. 522. from 17 June 2014, in which he told the chamber, that the only restriction to which he committed himself was that he would not leave the territory of the Republic of Serbia. Mr. Šešelj informed the chamber that he does not intend to and will not be making a separate Submission. The Legal Liaison Officer told all this the chamber in an internal Memorandum from 8 July 2014, which you all can read in the court records.

@(Fritz Wunderlich, 15 July 2014 20:41),

Many thanks for the highly informative comment and your precise explanation that notes the inaccuracy in the B92 report. I'm curious as to whether B92 will rectify its report?

A great day, in the fight against radicalism & extremism!
He is no better then the many terrorist that have infected the world, this man comes from one of Europe's largest terrorist breeders, Serbia!!!

It will be a great day when you stop coming on this site with your BS.

seselj doesn't respond to the offer for release..... cue the flood of people crying how it's all the court's fault he didn't respond

Why did the trial chamber issue the propio motu order on provisional release on June 13th?
Notably, if one examines the detailed chronology of events, Seselj's demand for compensation on June 10th that itemizes the unlawful detention, preceded the propio motu order by three days.

The claims of unlawful detention refer to relevant aspects of different Laws and provided for a rather strong argument. On the simple basis of the chronological order of events, it is obvious that the propio motu order was issued as a reaction to Seselj's claims for unlawful detention and represent a feeble attempt by the trial chamber to try to conceal its action of unlawful detention.

Prediction: In its decision on the merits of claims for unlawful detention, the Trial Chamber will use its post-hoc propio motu order as evidence of its attempt to provide for the "release" of the accused.

The circus of the ICTY will have reached a new low when its machinations and lunacy become so predictable.

The importance of the chronology of the events is evident from the June 6th, 2014 date when the Appeals Chamber rejected Seselj's motion against the continuation of the proceedings. Please note that this was published on Friday so that Seselj had only one working day to file his submission on unlawful detention on Tuesday June 10th, 2014.
It is also notable how many recent Seselj orders and decisions by the tribunal have been published on Friday, and most recently with 72 hour deadlines of response. All quite notable, as Seselj's communication with his advisors is controlled and restricted by ICTY so the use of weekend ultimatums and restricted communication speaks volumes about the scandalous and criminal manipulation by the corrupt arms of the ICTY.

(curious, 10 July 2014 20:21):

Curious, yes there was a demand for compensation last year, which was rejected. However, the most recent submission on June 10th regarding unlawful detention is based on much stronger argument and only followed the June 6th decision rejecting the appeal against decision on
continuation of proceedings. The date of Judge Niang's demand for more time to familiarize himself with the evidence was later.

The discussion among international law circles centers on the rules and procedures that have been erroneously invoked to justify continuation of the Seselj case. Please read the June 6th dissenting opinion from Judge Afande to appreciate the absurdity of the situation and the clear disregard for the rules and procedures and the rights of the accused. The only jurisprudence and precedence that is being followed is the manipulation of the Judiciary by Meron to achieve political goals, as described by Judge Harhoff.
Following the Judge's own revelations about the scandalous manipulations of the process, the ICTY died. It has no credibility left among International Law Experts. Seselj's arguments about the illegality of the ICTY are moot. The ICTY killed itself.

(Danilo, 10 July 2014 19:58),

The flood of crying that you hear is not for Seselj. Most International Criminal Law experts are ignorant of or indifferent to Seselj's politics, however, they are concerned that the ICTY is abusing its own rules and procedures as well as the norms of Law. Some reputable Jurists are indeed crying as they watch the ICTY kill itself.

Why does no one ever mention the witness intimidation and contempt of court?

It makes me laugh all this talk of conspiracies - Courts and judges in western europe are completely spineless and people get off on all sorts of technicalities.

Thus the judicial murder of innocent Serbian man and statesman Vojislav Seselj proceeds unhindered. Shame on those who put innocent Serbian man and statesman Vojislav Seselj on trial before a kangaroo court without any legal basis whatsoever.

(Andy UK, 11 July 2014 09:37) who "laugh(s) all this talk of conspiracies" apparently should realize that loudest talker of conspiracy was Judge Harhoff of the ICTY who provided the euology for Meron and his national sponsors that manipulated the ICTY Judiciary. Andy, your laughter joins the many experts and hordes that are now both crying and laughing at this circus.

(Andy UK, 11 July 2014 09:37)

Stick to cleaning bed pans as you have no idea about what goes on around you. You don’t even know the difference between a court and a tribunal.

I recognize that it is not possible to assess all of the details in the many proceedings, but I do encourage you to read the ICTY June 6th Appeals Chamber decision rejecting Seselj's motion against continuation of proceedings. I recognize that it is not possible to assess all of the details in the many proceedings, but I do encourage you to read the ICTY June 6th Appeals Chamber decision rejecting Seselj's motion against continuation of proceedings. The decision of the Appeal Chamber is laughable. No competent lawyer can argue against a mistrial in this case, as the argument defies the plainly obvious. Although I have no doubt that the ICTY Judges' logic may enable them to repeal the Law of Gravity, objects will still fall to earth.
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 11 July 2014 17:08)

what you said above is the best evidence that you have no idea what you are talking about... Somebody making an argument never says "The decision of the Appeal Chamber is laughable" because that means nothing more than "trust me that what I'm saying is correct" when you are a nobody like everybody else in these forums.

If you want to make an argument about "The decision of the Appeal Chamber is laughable", at a minimum you have to cite a couple of things from the decision which made you laugh and why. You need to provide a reason on why you think you are correct... just "trust me" is not a reason :)

They had a verdict and had to keep it secret because a judge opposed all not guilty verdicts in a letter he sent so they need a new judge to read everything. They need to just deal with the fact this trial has failed and has turned into a crime against humanity itself.

Amnesty Yugoslavia, 11 July 2014 00:08)
I hear everything you say and eventhough you put it together a little better than most, it boils down to one man's opinion. One you probably had before, and sound more like a mouthpiece for Seselj, which is ok, but I do not think that it will change anything, and as far as ICTY killing itself??, its mandate is at an end and unless the UNSC creates some sort of oversight tribunal or court its work dies with it.
As most every thing else in history it can be debated on for centuries, but it will remain a part of history.
As you saw at the Jeremic fiasco, the majority of the world countries that really give a damn, support the ICTY in its works and that is doubtful to change by the end of the remaining trials.
But in the end your opinion, my opinion will always be that just an opinion.
Maybe once I retire, I will look into all the nitty gritty of the case but like Niang 6 months is too short and in the end you have one fact.
He did publicly encourage if not order the killing of innocent people and morally he is guilty.(My opinion which is not likely to change)

(curious, 11 July 2014 13:01),

The ICTY was established as a criminal tribunal and not a moral tribunal. There are thousands of victims of true war crimes that deserve justice and not discussions about morality. Unfortunately, the organs of the ICTY (President, OTP, Registrar etc) demonstrated little to no proficiency in the judicial implementation of criminal proceedings.

Humankind has yet to pass judgement on the ICTY but after this organization assumes it rightful place on the dust heap, the actions of the tribunal in the Seselj case make it more than likely to be held in the same regard as the middle-age inquisitions, 18th century witch hunts and 20th century McCarthiasm show trials.

I recognize that it is not possible to assess all of the details in the many proceedings, but I do encourage you to read the ICTY June 6th Appeals Chamber decision rejecting Seselj's motion against continuation of proceedings. The decision of the Appeal Chamber is laughable. No competent lawyer can argue against a mistrial in this case, as the argument defies the plainly obvious. Although I have no doubt that the ICTY Judges' logic may enable them to repeal the Law of Gravity, objects will still fall to earth.

ICJ1 asserted "... you are a nobody like everybody else in these forums."

Dear ICJ1, Thank you for challenging me with this complex statement. I am limited to 1500 characters and so I will assume that you have a general knowledge in basic philisophy. My simple rebuttal to your philosophical hypothesis is that I am indeed an individual person. Similar to Existentialists, I believe that individuals should act independently as conscious beings —rather than what labels, roles, stereotypes, definitions, or other preconceived categories the individuals fit.

Your profound characterization of yourself and other members of these forums are reminiscent of Nihilistic or perhaps Absrudism philospohies.

Since I can't authoritatively label you a "nobody" or pigeon-hole you in a specific school of philosophical thought, perhaps you may better explain why you consider yourself and others on these forums as nobodies?

Amnesty Yugoslavia, 10 July 2014 18:33
Was not Seselj's original motion for compensation of 12 million not done in November of 2013 or was someone using a crystal ball?

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/crimes.php?yyyy=2013&mm=11&dd=28&nav_id=88492

But wasn't the motion to release actually after Judge Niang issued a statement that he was not at the point on the 6 month deadline that he could participate with the other 2 judges and the chamber does not have a definitive dateline of when they can resume?
If they were worried about the motion for compensation would they not have acted 6 months ago.

ICJ1,
You asked me to " cite a couple of things from the decision which made (me)laugh and why".
Please note that I did submit a response within the 1500 character limit citing 3 specific examples. One example demonstrated the contravention of ICTY own rules and procedures, a second example cited the inappropriate use of a rule, and the third example was the demonstration that the Appeal Chamber contravened a basic legal principle.

For reasons not entirly clear to me, my submission was not posted. I am curious, and suspicious, why comments about articles and subject matter would not be published? Odd? Concerned? My only recourse is again to refer you to read the Appeals Chamber decision and dissension.

Rather than rely on my submitted, but unposted, analysis of the laughable nature of the Appeal chamber decision, perhaps comments from prominent Jurists would convince you. There was much discussion last year on International Law forums about the Trial Chamber's decision to continue proceedings in the face of a textbook mistrial (duh, a biased Judge!). Much of the expert discussion anticipated the foolishness of the Appeal Chamber decision.
I consider it odd that the June 6th 2014 Appeal Chamber decision was not considered news worthy and not reported by this news organization, when all of the subsequent events pivoted around this decision. Perhaps readers would have been interested in Toma Fila's analysis of the Appeals Chamber decision? But who am I to make such a suggestion? As an ICJ1-labeled "nobody" I should sit quietly and simply stop challenging the excrement from the brave new world "somebodies".

It is not correct to say, Seselj did refuse to state whether he would comply with conditions set for his provisional release, which, by the way, were not freedom but imprisonement incommunicado locked in a house surrounded by police in Serbia. Seselj requested by phone from the Legal Liaison Officer to inform the chamber, that everything he had to say on the matter has already been said in his previous submission no. 522. from 17 June 2014, in which he told the chamber, that the only restriction to which he committed himself was that he would not leave the territory of the Republic of Serbia. Mr. Šešelj informed the chamber that he does not intend to and will not be making a separate Submission. The Legal Liaison Officer told all this the chamber in an internal Memorandum from 8 July 2014, which you all can read in the court records.

@(Fritz Wunderlich, 15 July 2014 20:41),

Many thanks for the highly informative comment and your precise explanation that notes the inaccuracy in the B92 report. I'm curious as to whether B92 will rectify its report?