...and you're wrong as well. its not Albania, its actually Ukraine, then Russia, then Belarus. if you're going to be smart ass, you should at least get your facts right
Jahjaga was totally superior to Nikolic.
9 out of 15 members spoke in Kosovas favor. Her speech conveyed in English was of significance and the fact that she is the only woman who is President in the Balkans.
Nikolic's statement was primarily for local consumption. Harsh speech ending up with a "thank you for you help with the poplava'. Lol.
Oh, and the rush to demand a follow-up right after Kosovo delegation asked for it it was hilarious.
Not to mention Jahjagas superiorty right after the meeting ended when she approached him unexpectedly to shake hands.....priceless!!
Your logic is interesting...but not in an interesting way..more of a WTF..are you delusional..way. First you have achieved nothing and you will never be rid of Serbia, it's her Church's that dot the landscape in KiM and her history that supports it.
The U.S. built a base in Serbia (which is illegal) and tore a piece of Serbia off and gave it to Albanians (which is also illegal). The US drove the whole process and presented to the Albanians on a platter. You don't understand.. THEY OWN YOU NOW!!! you will never be free. The elite (if you want to call it that) in Kosovo are the US' lapdogs..and you think your better off?
Everyone in the Balkans is a victim, not just you and your children. Finally if you simply didn't care, then why the long winded response??
Ah so now the numbers are skewed because of ethnic cleansing and intimidating anyone deemed unenthusiastic towards independence.
Because that never happened in Kosovo...
(Balkan Anthropologist, 30 May 2014 17:06)
It did happen in Kosovo, this is why there are many Kosovo Albanians (and their decendents) outside of Kosovo. There are 300,000 in Germany, 200,000 in Switzerland, 100,000 in Macedonia, 50,000 in Sweden ect.
Albanians have always been the majority in Kosovo. Even Serbia's own sources show that when they colonised Kosovo in 1913 that over 75% of Kosovo's population were Albanian.
This is why in 1920, there was an official governemnt process which tried to change the demographics of Kosovo by importing 65,000 Serbs to Kosovo. From 1918 to 1921 there was a mass scale expulsion of Albanians with the Albanian population reducing to 439,500 from around 1 million. Yugoslavia tried to transfer a further 200,000 Albanians to Turkey but WW2 got in the way. Thankfully Tito put an end to this sick government programme when he came to power.
"Yeah, you're right. The people of Kosovo didn't even want to become independent, it's all just lies and propaganda from the evil BBC."
(Ian, UK, 29 May 2014 19:30)
He probably only meant: Without the USA, Kosovo would be as 'independent' as South Ossetia, Abchazia and Northern Cyprus.
The ICTY ruled that an UDI is allowed for any group of people, but it has no legal consequences at all, only recognitions by other states makes a state.
"President of Serbia, a country where corruption is at highest in Europe and more, a country known for commiting crimes against humanity on daily basis is trying to tell EU what is law and whats lawless. "
(USAlbania, 28 May 2014 12:47)
You must be a bit malinformed. The country with highest corruption in Europe is - guess what? No, not Kosovo, as people might think. Kosovo is 'only' on #2. It's Albania, according to the latest corruption index.
Congratulations!
@exKfor
oh please, you do not need to remind me of your Christian fundamentalism, I've read that before.
thing is though, you can say you do not need to reassure yourself about being European, but the very fact that you subconsciously seem to need to write it, suggests a certain insecurity about it. as for this: "... never were, never will! ", not one person is asking or is going to ask for your blessing on it, so deal with it how you like. thus far your way of dealing with it, is by having hallucinations.
as for what Cook & Robertson said, sunshine, I have read your opinions before. you told me that Albanians had filled grave sites with animal remains, so as to fool forensic experts. to exchange ideas with people who genuinely believe that, is a futile exercise. so there's nothing left to do, other than to thanks you once more for the service that you gave to KFOR, for having kept Serbia's army out, but at the same time, for being worried about these apparitions you're having. its what happens when one is religious, your brain rots and you get visions
unlike your KiM islamo-fascists i do not need to reassure I am an euroepan, a normal one, whose roots lie in judeo-christianity - so there's nothing to comfort myself about. another thing is that your and ilk of yours do it on this site every day trying to be sooo eagerly "Euroepans" - never were, never will! Interesting, the other day you were trying to prove how "european" your brothers turks were and that, in fact, Europe needed those "enlightened" mohhamedans and not vice a versa - carry on with your delusional dreams. regarding islamic terrorist Jashari - every time i look at the pics of his destroyed house turned into ridiculous "Mecca" i recall the talks with brave Serb officers who sent this genocidal lunatic into Hell - unfortunately, according to Alb best traditions, he condemned his family to there as well - only cowards fight from behind womens' skirts - and sure he was one of them. so consider , that i see those hallucinations incessantly- but you know - as it is said that "blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven", and you consider i am one of them, then not everything is lost for me, so pray for my soul!
Still waiting for your comments to statments of Cook, Roberston...
take care!
Over 50% of Abkazia's population were forcibly kicked out in the early 1990's and a further 30,000 were killed/ slaughtered/ butchered. This radically changed the ethnic make-up of Abkhazia to make the previously minority Abkhaz the majority.
(Ian, UK, 30 May 2014 10:33)
Ah so now the numbers are skewed because of ethnic cleansing and intimidating anyone deemed unenthusiastic towards independence.
Now you're just getting desperate. I like how you consider yourself a normal European, its almost as if you're over compensating for something. as for quoting the Quran at me, not sure what that has to do with anything, if that's your way of telling me you're well versed in literature, then good for you.
as for as our independence goes, let us put it this way, we did declare one in 1992, but there were no NATO soldiers to fall back on. thankfully you, by serving in KFOR, guaranteed that the one in 2008 would stick. for that, we owe you our eternal gratitude. p.s. how often do you have those visions?
Nikolle or Ms. Wurst or Amatullah - or what was your real impersonation? Still waiting, as any other normal european, your substantiated answers to Cook's, Robertson' s and etc statements, in fact making KiM islamo-fascists guilty of starting a illegal war in Serbia? If you ain't able to come up with a single explanation/excuse, then u r kindly advised to resort to ur holly bookk - Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" - PBUH - piss be upon him(Voldemort of course)!
And by the way, ICC never declared your illegal seccsion to be in line with IL but only that anyone can declare in their simple-mindedness what ever they want, it is like that Albanian civilization is a cradle of the World - fully in compliance with IL! Point is that US supported u and that counts, might is right but nothing lasts forever - not even your delusional "independence"
what do you mean may? you wrote yesterday that you had seen a vision of a dead person who went on to ask for repentance. now, you tell you draw facts from that vision? i don't know dude, you have me worried for you mental state, its not good to hallucinate. seek help, before you became a danger to yourself and more importantly, others
well, i may have had some hallucinations but unlike you I am able to read the facts and draw some conclusions. that is good that you loose nerve so easily as most of islamofascists, and that will make Serb troops work much easier while taking back KiM. last time we discussed the religious questions you got out of hands that you literally "screamed" in a written form - f..k jesus. f..k muhhamed and even f..k all of islamofascists in KiM! That was the moment of truth.
Still waiting for your balanced comments on thes said facts:
Gabriel Keller, a deputy head of the Kosovo Verification Mission (KVM), concurred, saying: “… every pullback by the Yugoslav UCK took advantage of this to consolidate its positions everywhere, continuing to smuggle arms from Albania, abducting and killing both civilians and military personnel, Albanians and Serbs alike.”
UK FM, Robin Cook, who told the House of Commons on 18 January 1999: “On its part, the KLA has committed more breaches of the ceasefire, and until this weekend was responsible for more deaths than the security forces. It must stop undermining the ceasefire and blocking political dialogue.”
UK defence minister George Robertson stated that until shortly before the Nato bombing campaign, "the KLA were responsible for more deaths in Kosovo than the Yugoslav [Serb] authorities had been."
I never said that and you're dodging your own argument. The people of Kosovo wanted independence as much as the people of Abkhazia and other places you seem to be unable or unwilling to extend your logic towards.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 29 May 2014 23:27)
Over 50% of Abkazia's population were forcibly kicked out in the early 1990's and a further 30,000 were killed/ slaughtered/ butchered. This radically changed the ethnic make-up of Abkhazia to make the previously minority Abkhaz the majority.
@Ian what a bite too easy haha! by way im not from Halifax, PS you come from Oxenhope hahaha says it all! And the rest jesus you must of been dropped on the head as a baby! And yea i love my country and if that means im a nationalist so be it, id rather love my country and defend it then been a coward
(NjegosUK, 29 May 2014 19:25)
How brave and noble of you, 'defending' your country via the Internet. You're no coward, you're a mighty keyboard warrior. You're country and family must be so proud of you!
Read the Ramboulleit agreement. No one would have ever signed it!!! Then the humanitarian bombing began. The only reason why we are having a discussion on Kosovo now is because there was no defense from a unipolar power inside and outside the UN. Russia at the time was weak. Yeltsin was very drunk. After the Kosovo war, Yeltsin was gone and soon after and Putin came to power.
(Radovan, 28 May 2014 17:47)
When Yeltsin was in power, he sent the Russian soldiers in Kosovo a dared NATO; when Putin came to power, he withdrew the Russian soldiers from there. I don't think any further comment is needed... The facts speak more than words...
----------
The best Kosovars can wish for is greater autonomy within Serbian borders
(Radovan, 28 May 2014 17:47)
Well, they have already more than that, whether we like it or not
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if they want to be on the right side of international law.
(Radovan, 28 May 2014 17:47)
Upon Serbia's request, ICJ has already determined that the Kosovars are on the right side of international law. So there is nothing to debate here. It is an easy choice between a certain Radovan's opinion and ICJ's opinion,
Now Belgrade has the deeds to these lands legally hence why USA are still there, but on the other hand Serbia has the right to sell these deeds to someone else pretty much like any land transaction.
(NjegosUK, 29 May 2014 02:26)
that's great... I've been asking to see those deeds for some time. Any place where we can see them? Btw, how did Serbia get those deeds ? My apologies in advance if I'm assuming incorrectly that Kosovo's was not Serbian land since Earth's creation in the year 4.500.000.000 BC!
Yeah, you're right. The people of Kosovo didn't even want to become independent, it's all just lies and propaganda from the evil BBC.
(Ian, UK, 29 May 2014 19:30)
I never said that and you're dodging your own argument. The people of Kosovo wanted independence as much as the people of Abkhazia and other places you seem to be unable or unwilling to extend your logic towards.
In the Sudan, both parties - the parent state and those who wanted to secede- agreed to a separation.
Kosovo set a precedent. Stronger nations have and will continue to use this precedent against the less powerful.
(Roger7, 29 May 2014 14:59)
Fantastic, the Sudan precedent is such a better model, don't you think??
They were at civil war for decades not just a few days, it resulted in millions of dead. It is hard to believe that someone advocates that millions of Serbs should have died before Kosovo should be allowed to be independent.
The Kosovo precedent, is only being used by Russia who says that it was illegal when they want to split off a portion of another country to become part of the new Soviet bloc. Only a fool would really believe in a "Kosovo precendent" in either Georgia or Ukraine
Of course I agree that the "Kosovo precedent" should be cited in all instances where the UNSC has determined that a country's actions against a region in that country is so horrendous that the UNSC must take control over that region and strip the country of any political, military, or economic control.
So now lets list the places this has occurred.
Why is it so hard to believe that Kosovo's independence would be nothing without the United States? You honestly believe they could have accomplished this on their own?
(Balkan Anthropologist, 29 May 2014 16:02)
1- Who says that outside help in a certain cause makes that cause automatically artificial? Who invented that rule? If that's the rule then Serbia is totally artificial. Since from the battle of Kosovo onwards it has always had outside help.
2- Sure, we could not have achieved this without the United States. What does stating this even do for you? The fact is that we wanted Serbia off our backs and we got Serbia off our backs. We have the Western world to thank for. This does not diminish the fact that we are now free of Serbia. Wether you call that artificial or not, it doesn't matter to us at all. What matters is that because the Western world, Serbia is no longer killing our children, even though they still hide the bodies inside multi-story building inside Serbia. Our goal was not to satisfy the wishes of an anonymous internet poster about what constitutes natural versus artifical process of ridding Serbia. Our goal was to get rid of Serbia and stop her from killing our childre. We have achieved that goal. No you can put any metaphor, symbolism or analogy that you wish. We simply do not care.
Ah so by that rationale, if there was a "movement" that's existed in whatever embryonic form, then despite the capabilities or not of reaching that goal on one's own, their the movement is "natural". By that logic many, if not all, of the movements you deride as Russian sponsored are natural.
Longevity makes it natural? That's an even weaker argument than self-capability.
Even the United States needed outside help in achieving independence, and even there, only one-third of the population was openly in favor of it. What's more, the movement for independence was less than a decade old at the time of the Declaration. Americans might be a little irate to hear you think so little of their efforts at becoming a state of their own.
Why is it so hard to believe that Kosovo's independence would be nothing without the United States? You honestly believe they could have accomplished this on their own?
(Balkan Anthropologist, 29 May 2014 16:02)
Yeah, you're right. The people of Kosovo didn't even want to become independent, it's all just lies and propaganda from the evil BBC.
@Ian what a bite too easy haha! by way im not from Halifax, PS you come from Oxenhope hahaha says it all! And the rest jesus you must of been dropped on the head as a baby! And yea i love my country and if that means im a nationalist so be it, id rather love my country and defend it then been a coward
Oh dear, it seems you've been so consumed by guilt, you have gotten even more crazy than before! i would suggest banging your head against a wall, you know, if might erase your memory of having been a part of KFOR, but then, you would probably do it. thanks for your valuable service again, its down to KFOR personnel that we can and did declare independence
"...Post just had a vision of Karl Marx 'esque Jashari telling he had all the long been dead wrong, asked for deliverance for the crimes he had commited against the lawful owners (Serbs) of KiM, and prophesized that Albanians would eventually return to the land they came from "!
there's two possibilities here: 1) you really can see dead people, or 2) you're hallucinating, brought about by your deep feelings of guilt that your brain is trying to make you feel better by brining on images of deceased individuals so you can sleep better at night. in other words, you've gone gaga. now, since I don't believe you can see dead people, the 2nd possibility is the likely explanation
Or should I call you Amatullah? Have been screening the site occasionally and noticed that you are still around - lovely, indeed! Though, most of the time with poorly substantiated comments - just wishful thinking of yours. Change of alias - while putting forward the hard facts in my previous post just had a vision of Karl Marx 'esque Jashari telling he had all the long been dead wrong, asked for deliverance for the crimes he had commited against the lawful owners (Serbs) of KiM, and prophesized that Albanians would eventually return to the land they came from - Arabian Peninsula, so I felt an urge to share some piece of that vision with you, my Dear. Simple as that. To your delight, I sleep excellent after helping Serbs while doing my time with KFOR, as by the way did my brothers-in-arms, at least what was in our power - for that period your kinsmen islamo-fascists didn' t manage to do mush evil in my AOR. As KFOR is leaving you will soon, with a great probablilty, face again your nightmare - Serbian troops - so maybe it is wise to start looking for some sunshade in Arabian desert for living?
Or maybe, before setting off for that, you are eager to rebut all those facts I laid out in my previous post? So far all that KiM' s islamo-fascists have done just voted the Truth down while never daring to challenge the facts revealing Albanians real nature?
I would say it was a natural independence movement, after all, there has been an independence movement since at least 1877.
(Ian, UK, 29 May 2014 10:41)
Ah so by that rationale, if there was a "movement" that's existed in whatever embryonic form, then despite the capabilities or not of reaching that goal on one's own, their the movement is "natural". By that logic many, if not all, of the movements you deride as Russian sponsored are natural.
Longevity makes it natural? That's an even weaker argument than self-capability.
Even the United States needed outside help in achieving independence, and even there, only one-third of the population was openly in favor of it. What's more, the movement for independence was less than a decade old at the time of the Declaration. Americans might be a little irate to hear you think so little of their efforts at becoming a state of their own.
Why is it so hard to believe that Kosovo's independence would be nothing without the United States? You honestly believe they could have accomplished this on their own?
why else would you come on this site and look like a clown
(NjegosUK, 29 May 2014 02:26)
Maybe you should reread your post before you give that title to anyone else, I think you have reserved it for yourself.
Serbia having the legal deeds to anything in Kosovo is valid in Serbian courts only and pretty much useless paper anywhere else. They could sell the land but you would only find other Serbs foolish enough to buy them.
Former US ambassador to Russia and historian, Jack Matlock, acknowledged in 2008, that NATO bombing of Serbia and Kosovo's secession set a precedent. He described Kosovo as a "ward of NATO".
To defend Russia's military action and the referendum in the Crimea is as indefensible - stupid,really - as to deny the West's involvement and planning world-wide in secessions, undemocratic regime changes and coups.
It is just as stupid to deny that the Kosovo unilateral declaration of independence did not establish a precedence.
The New York Times wrote,regarding possible military action in Syria, that Kosovo is an obvious precedent for Mr. Obama.
Liberal war-hawks in the US go as far as to say that the illegal NATO bombing of Serbia sets a "legal precedent'.
In the Sudan, both parties - the parent state and those who wanted to secede- agreed to a separation.
Kosovo set a precedent. Stronger nations have and will continue to use this precedent against the less powerful.
Gabriel Keller, a deputy head of the Kosovo Verification Mission (KVM), concurred, saying: “… every pullback by the Yugoslav army or the Serbian police was followed by a movement forward by [KLA] forces [...] OSCE's presence compelled Serbian government forces to a certain restraint [...] and UCK took advantage of this to consolidate its positions everywhere, continuing to smuggle arms from Albania, abducting and killing both civilians and military personnel, Albanians and Serbs alike.”
UK Foreign Minister, Robin Cook, who told the House of Commons on 18 January 1999: “On its part, the Kosovo Liberation Army has committed more breaches of the ceasefire, and until this weekend was responsible for more deaths than the security forces. It must stop undermining the ceasefire and blocking political dialogue.”
UK defence minister George Robertson stated that until shortly before the Nato bombing campaign, "the KLA were responsible for more deaths in Kosovo than the Yugoslav [Serb] authorities had been."
Eventually KiM islamo-fascists, Insh'Allah, will pay for their crimes...
Simple as this USA started with Kosovo yet denies Palestine the right and Russia did what it did in Ukraine with out firing a shot... Unlike those who illegally bombed and killing civilians for 78 days against UN protocol as well as breaking resolution 1244... Go play with your Albanian friends and take your Serb bashing somewhere else, short man syndrome much ha, USA got involved to put bond-steel up and try and take the natural materials in Kosovo for themselves... Now Belgrade has the deeds to these lands legally hence why USA are still there, but on the other hand Serbia has the right to sell these deeds to someone else pretty much like any land transaction. Now USA isn't buying anything in Serbia but Russians are... Its clear you are pro Siptar and anti Russian/Serbian and you believe every word the BBC says why else would you come on this site and look like a clown
(NjegosUK, 29 May 2014 02:26)
1: I'm a huge supporter of Palestine
2: Russia has the blood of many people in Ukraine on it's hands, both recently and historically.
3: Illegal according to who exactly?
4: I've never 'bashed' a Serb in my life.
5: I'm not anti-Russian, Russia is my favourite country in the world. I'm anti-Putin aka anti-fascist.
6: I'm not anti-Serbian, I'm going to be in Serbia in July, I can't wait!
7: I hate the BBC. My opinions are very different from the BBC's.
8: You come on this site and look like a far right nationalist.
9: You're a Spaz from Halifax... enough said!
I seriously love this, it was Kosovo apparently that gave Russia the green light to intervene in Ukraine. yeah, had Kosovo not declared independence, Russia would stayed out of Ukraine. anyone who seriously believes this, is deluded, a simpleton, naive or all three.
Wait... you actually think Kosovo was a "natural independence movement"? I guess it could be if you factor out the international involvement, NATO intervention, Vienna conferences, Ahtisaari Plan, EULEX "supervised independence" and barely concealed controlling of events by the United States, Germany, and Great Britain.
You might want to rethink your argument since Kosovo's independence was as naturally artificial as Abkhazia's.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 29 May 2014 04:29)
I would say it was a natural independence movement, after all, there has been an independence movement since at least 1877.
When are we going to see a natural independence movement make reference to the so-called "Kosovo Precedent"?
(Ian, UK, 28 May 2014 21:57)
Wait... you actually think Kosovo was a "natural independence movement"? I guess it could be if you factor out the international involvement, NATO intervention, Vienna conferences, Ahtisaari Plan, EULEX "supervised independence" and barely concealed controlling of events by the United States, Germany, and Great Britain.
You might want to rethink your argument since Kosovo's independence was as naturally artificial as Abkhazia's.
Ian
Simple as this USA started with Kosovo yet denies Palestine the right and Russia did what it did in Ukraine with out firing a shot... Unlike those who illegally bombed and killing civilians for 78 days against UN protocol as well as breaking resolution 1244... Go play with your Albanian friends and take your Serb bashing somewhere else, short man syndrome much ha, USA got involved to put bond-steel up and try and take the natural materials in Kosovo for themselves... Now Belgrade has the deeds to these lands legally hence why USA are still there, but on the other hand Serbia has the right to sell these deeds to someone else pretty much like any land transaction. Now USA isn't buying anything in Serbia but Russians are... Its clear you are pro Siptar and anti Russian/Serbian and you believe every word the BBC says why else would you come on this site and look like a clown
"It was created by NATO and EU to justify their 78 day humanitarian bombing campaign against a sovereign UN member nation in the midst of an internal conflict." - Radovan
FR Yugoslavia didn't join the UN until 1 November 2000. This is a very basic fact when it comes to FR Yugoslavia and the UN.
...After the Kosovo war, Yeltsin was gone and soon after and Putin came to power. The best Kosovars can wish for is greater autonomy within Serbian borders if they want to be on the right side of international law.
(Radovan, 28 May 2014 17:47) ....
You either don't want to accept the reality or you are high.
It was Putin,not Yelsin, who put his tail betwen his leg and left the Balkans in 2003.It was Putin who doesnt protect his alles like Sadam Husein,Gadafi,Yukanovic and even Asad.Asad is in power not because of Putin but because the West doesnt trust the anti Assad fighters there.
Secondly,Kosovo has been recignized by 106 countries as independent,serbs will vote on June 8th elections with Republic o Kosova in ballot.
What are you talking?
Even the late Dobrica Cosich,the father of serb nationalists said few weeks ago that : "Kosovo is gone for good"
Wake up cut the losses,make a deal with K-Alb and move one.It will be good for Serbia and for Kosova.
Cheers!
It's very clear in this address how there is no opposition to Kosovo independence from serbia just the UDI and after the talks are over serbias wish is that they jointly announce Kosovo indepedence.
Is Nikolic sure because Kosovo only did what 'republika srpska' did in Bosnia? Just because Kosovo didn't commit crimes against others and became independent it can't be blamed for other cases. Nikolic shouldn't forget that Vojvodina had the same autonomous status Kosovo had before becoming independent.
I love it when I read about Ablo trolls talking about corruption...at least you are well versed on the subject. Just because you take over a region by breeding like rabbits doesn't give you the right to claim the land as your own. Like many on here have pointed out many times, please provide historical proof of Albanian presence in Kosovo beyond 100 years.
If Kosovo really did set a "precedent", how come Russia (the author of the so-called "Kosovo Precedent" theory) has to prove their theory by force down the barrel of a Russian gun?
If the "Kosovo Precedent" was actually true, surely Russia could prove it by letting it occur naturally instead of engineering separatism through military force upon their immediate neighbours?
The "Kosovo Precedent" is an artificial manufactured theory which was authored by Putin and it is used to oppose the independence of Kosovo; this is why Putin approved the "Declaration of Independence of the Republic of Crimea" script, which was only made possible through Russian military engineering upon Putin's orders.
When are we going to see a natural independence movement make reference to the so-called "Kosovo Precedent"? Take a look at some independence movements since 2008 where the Russian Military haven't been involved: South Sudan, Veneto, Scotland, Catalonia, Bougainville, New Caledonia, Greenland ect. How come none of these have drawn parallels to Kosovo? Because they aren't following orders from Russia and the “Kosovo Precedent” theory is a fallacy.
And where the famous Russians hypocrites who before were oh-so big defenders of international law, territorial integrity and sovereignty of recognized countries had no problem at all to annex Crimea within a week, thus violating not only territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine, but also the bilateral Budapest agreements where Russia guaranteed the invulnerability of Ukraine's borders, in exchange for Ukraine returning the nuclear weapons located on it's territory to Russia.
(Comm. Parrisson, 28 May 2014 12:42)
NATO went to war over its credibility and its strategic stupidity.
Russia defensively saved its strategic interests in the Black sea.
Try actually reading the Budapest Agreement. You can drive busses through it as the Americans and Europeans were doing by sponsoring the Maidan protests. Or were all those high politicians in Maidan square just illusions? Hypocrite yourself.
"Any decision, just or unjust, must follow a certain rule or regulation, while the very existence of international law guarantees legal safety, abolishes voluntaryism and arbitrariness and ensures legality. Otherwise, modern civilization would not be any different from the Medieval, and in that event we would have not learned anything from the past," Nikolić stated.
International law ruled that Kosova's Declaration of Independence was legal. Therefore Serbia should accept this decision and everything that derives from that: just or unjust, and Serbia must follow this rule and/or regulation, because the very existence of international law guarantees legal safety, abolishes voluntaryism and arbitrariness and ensures legality. Otherwise, modern civilization would not be any different from the Medieval times, and in that event Serbia would have not learned anything from the past,
Oh, but wait. We are dealing with Serbia here. You like to preach, but only onto others, not to yourself. Hypocrites.
you should do some research on a topic that you obviously know little about before you spew nonsense! albania and "kosovo" are neck and neck for the most corrupt in Europe.
albania doesn't even have 100 years of existence. Who do you think you are? Serbia should have done this and that bla bla bla bla. It's not the 90' anymore where the only news source is the mainstream propaganda machine. Wake up and stop trolling.
Read the Ramboulleit agreement. No one would have ever signed it!!! Then the humanitarian bombing began. The only reason why we are having a discussion on Kosovo now is because there was no defense from a unipolar power inside and outside the UN. Russia at the time was weak. Yeltsin was very drunk. After the Kosovo war, Yeltsin was gone and soon after and Putin came to power. The best Kosovars can wish for is greater autonomy within Serbian borders if they want to be on the right side of international law.
I take it Mirel that you think Serbs were treated well in Kosovo over the last 91 years then?? Come on cut the comedy, you've got a persecution complex and you need treatment, you fabricate history on an industrial scale. Have as much autonomy as you like but Kosovo and Metohija will remain within Serbia's borders, my friend Vladimir says so.
Serbia should never believe anything American parasites say nor their soon to be broke allies....Serbia should be closer to the east with Russia and china and the brics ....the new world is merging very fast America is nothing anymore but lies and propaganda .....Serbia should not join the EU......the power is now with Russia and china and so many nations are following them...Kosovo will be with Serbia especially if your friends are Russia and china and the rest of the new world, you listen to the EU and America kiss Kosovo goodbye.....
@Radovan
Open the newspapers before you are spreading rubbish serbia propoganda.
Albanians held their referendum since 1992,where 99.99% of albanians voted for independence.
Bringing the Crimea case if funny from serbs.
Because as far as we have seen in Crimea ,Ukraine army didnt kill and rape any of russians in Crimea and Crimea didnt follow Kosovo's path.
Btw,you serbs are on the side of russians when it comes to Crimea.
As for Kosovo,you are right,there was not any country called Kosovo,but there is a country called Albania where Kosovo( or at least most of it) belongs.
If you were not greedy in 1913 you shuld have gotten 40% of Kosovo where non albanian population resided.But you were greedy you wanted all,Kosovo and North Albania until Durres.
And you always have been greedy and never consider than in Kosovo there is a majority of people who are Albanian.
For God's sake even today you are talking like no Albanian are leaving in Kosovo.
The reason that you were bombed for 78 days,was that you didnt wanted to compromise( the West wanted authomomy back intil 1999) and you misssed all the oportunities for compromise.You still missing the oportutinites for compromise.You will end up with nothing in the end.
The only smart man that you had PM ,and wanted to compromise with Albanians and the West,ended up dead.
With him you would have had North and albanians the rest.
And where the famous Russians hypocrites who before were oh-so big defenders of international law, territorial integrity and sovereignty of recognized countries had no problem at all to annex Crimea within a week, thus violating not only territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine, but also the bilateral Budapest agreements where Russia guaranteed the invulnerability of Ukraine's borders, in exchange for Ukraine returning the nuclear weapons located on it's territory to Russia.
(Comm. Parrisson, 28 May 2014 12:42)
That was before NATO expansion into ex soviet states in an attempt to contain and break apart Russian. In Ukraine, a coup took over the government which in all likelihood would have tried to kick the Russian navy out of Crimea and out of the Black Sea. Everyone has to play by the same rules or international law is one big joke. Like "Kosova". :P
There will continue to be more hotspots were "international law" can interpreted differently. There never was a country call Kosovo. It was created by NATO and EU to justify their 78 day humanitarian bombing campaign against a sovereign UN member nation in the midst of an internal conflict. On it's own, Kosovo cannot survive without major donors. Without the ethnically cleansed Serb population, it has an even less chance of surviving. Crimea was a perfect example of how international law can be interpreted differently. They even had a referendum unlike the Albanian UDI. EU double standards in your face!!!!
"No one should expect us to willingly and quietly submit to our own destruction," the president stated
Such poor choice of words. I certainly can assure you that you can recognize Kosovo today and Serbia will not be destroyed instead a heavy burden will be lifted from its shoulders. Only nationlists and babbling idiots think Serbia will be destroyed if it recognizes Kosovo.
Either way it is in Serbia interest to wash its hands with Kosovo and chart its future as majority of the rational politicians in Serbia know this. The questions is how to do it with the least trauma effects. As anyone with 2 cent brain will tell you Kosovo has been drain on Serbia in all aspects of life and the point has been reached where enough is enough.
Actually wasted breath as in no one outside of Serbia and Russia believe that Kosovo was a precedent for Crimea.
sdg
You only proved the point he was making, look at the other countries of Europe. You will also note that most of Serbian supporters are on the lower scoring side of the scale. Kosovo which Serbs like to highlight the corruption is only 9 points behind Serbia and is 5 points ahead of Serbia's biggest supporter Russia.
President of Serbia, a country where corruption is at highest in Europe and more, a country known for commiting crimes against humanity on daily basis is trying to tell EU what is law and whats lawless. Come on guys who does he think he is, who does he think is he trying to fool exceptof himself and some people in serbia. Another session where Nicolic asked and beged for money as known serbian beggers. Shame on you serbia. You should not be allowed outside jungle let alone joining EU.
"Then, there came Crimea, where the people and the authorities of that peninsula, in declaring their independence, invoked 'the famous Kosovo precedent which Western countries helped create themselves,'" Nikolić said."
And where the famous Russians hypocrites who before were oh-so big defenders of international law, territorial integrity and sovereignty of recognized countries had no problem at all to annex Crimea within a week, thus violating not only territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine, but also the bilateral Budapest agreements where Russia guaranteed the invulnerability of Ukraine's borders, in exchange for Ukraine returning the nuclear weapons located on it's territory to Russia.
@Radovan
Open the newspapers before you are spreading rubbish serbia propoganda.
Albanians held their referendum since 1992,where 99.99% of albanians voted for independence.
Bringing the Crimea case if funny from serbs.
Because as far as we have seen in Crimea ,Ukraine army didnt kill and rape any of russians in Crimea and Crimea didnt follow Kosovo's path.
Btw,you serbs are on the side of russians when it comes to Crimea.
As for Kosovo,you are right,there was not any country called Kosovo,but there is a country called Albania where Kosovo( or at least most of it) belongs.
If you were not greedy in 1913 you shuld have gotten 40% of Kosovo where non albanian population resided.But you were greedy you wanted all,Kosovo and North Albania until Durres.
And you always have been greedy and never consider than in Kosovo there is a majority of people who are Albanian.
For God's sake even today you are talking like no Albanian are leaving in Kosovo.
The reason that you were bombed for 78 days,was that you didnt wanted to compromise( the West wanted authomomy back intil 1999) and you misssed all the oportunities for compromise.You still missing the oportutinites for compromise.You will end up with nothing in the end.
The only smart man that you had PM ,and wanted to compromise with Albanians and the West,ended up dead.
With him you would have had North and albanians the rest.
"Then, there came Crimea, where the people and the authorities of that peninsula, in declaring their independence, invoked 'the famous Kosovo precedent which Western countries helped create themselves,'" Nikolić said."
And where the famous Russians hypocrites who before were oh-so big defenders of international law, territorial integrity and sovereignty of recognized countries had no problem at all to annex Crimea within a week, thus violating not only territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine, but also the bilateral Budapest agreements where Russia guaranteed the invulnerability of Ukraine's borders, in exchange for Ukraine returning the nuclear weapons located on it's territory to Russia.
President of Serbia, a country where corruption is at highest in Europe and more, a country known for commiting crimes against humanity on daily basis is trying to tell EU what is law and whats lawless. Come on guys who does he think he is, who does he think is he trying to fool exceptof himself and some people in serbia. Another session where Nicolic asked and beged for money as known serbian beggers. Shame on you serbia. You should not be allowed outside jungle let alone joining EU.
There will continue to be more hotspots were "international law" can interpreted differently. There never was a country call Kosovo. It was created by NATO and EU to justify their 78 day humanitarian bombing campaign against a sovereign UN member nation in the midst of an internal conflict. On it's own, Kosovo cannot survive without major donors. Without the ethnically cleansed Serb population, it has an even less chance of surviving. Crimea was a perfect example of how international law can be interpreted differently. They even had a referendum unlike the Albanian UDI. EU double standards in your face!!!!
If Kosovo really did set a "precedent", how come Russia (the author of the so-called "Kosovo Precedent" theory) has to prove their theory by force down the barrel of a Russian gun?
If the "Kosovo Precedent" was actually true, surely Russia could prove it by letting it occur naturally instead of engineering separatism through military force upon their immediate neighbours?
The "Kosovo Precedent" is an artificial manufactured theory which was authored by Putin and it is used to oppose the independence of Kosovo; this is why Putin approved the "Declaration of Independence of the Republic of Crimea" script, which was only made possible through Russian military engineering upon Putin's orders.
When are we going to see a natural independence movement make reference to the so-called "Kosovo Precedent"? Take a look at some independence movements since 2008 where the Russian Military haven't been involved: South Sudan, Veneto, Scotland, Catalonia, Bougainville, New Caledonia, Greenland ect. How come none of these have drawn parallels to Kosovo? Because they aren't following orders from Russia and the “Kosovo Precedent” theory is a fallacy.
Actually wasted breath as in no one outside of Serbia and Russia believe that Kosovo was a precedent for Crimea.
sdg
You only proved the point he was making, look at the other countries of Europe. You will also note that most of Serbian supporters are on the lower scoring side of the scale. Kosovo which Serbs like to highlight the corruption is only 9 points behind Serbia and is 5 points ahead of Serbia's biggest supporter Russia.
"No one should expect us to willingly and quietly submit to our own destruction," the president stated
Such poor choice of words. I certainly can assure you that you can recognize Kosovo today and Serbia will not be destroyed instead a heavy burden will be lifted from its shoulders. Only nationlists and babbling idiots think Serbia will be destroyed if it recognizes Kosovo.
Either way it is in Serbia interest to wash its hands with Kosovo and chart its future as majority of the rational politicians in Serbia know this. The questions is how to do it with the least trauma effects. As anyone with 2 cent brain will tell you Kosovo has been drain on Serbia in all aspects of life and the point has been reached where enough is enough.
"Any decision, just or unjust, must follow a certain rule or regulation, while the very existence of international law guarantees legal safety, abolishes voluntaryism and arbitrariness and ensures legality. Otherwise, modern civilization would not be any different from the Medieval, and in that event we would have not learned anything from the past," Nikolić stated.
International law ruled that Kosova's Declaration of Independence was legal. Therefore Serbia should accept this decision and everything that derives from that: just or unjust, and Serbia must follow this rule and/or regulation, because the very existence of international law guarantees legal safety, abolishes voluntaryism and arbitrariness and ensures legality. Otherwise, modern civilization would not be any different from the Medieval times, and in that event Serbia would have not learned anything from the past,
Oh, but wait. We are dealing with Serbia here. You like to preach, but only onto others, not to yourself. Hypocrites.
And where the famous Russians hypocrites who before were oh-so big defenders of international law, territorial integrity and sovereignty of recognized countries had no problem at all to annex Crimea within a week, thus violating not only territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine, but also the bilateral Budapest agreements where Russia guaranteed the invulnerability of Ukraine's borders, in exchange for Ukraine returning the nuclear weapons located on it's territory to Russia.
(Comm. Parrisson, 28 May 2014 12:42)
That was before NATO expansion into ex soviet states in an attempt to contain and break apart Russian. In Ukraine, a coup took over the government which in all likelihood would have tried to kick the Russian navy out of Crimea and out of the Black Sea. Everyone has to play by the same rules or international law is one big joke. Like "Kosova". :P
Serbia should never believe anything American parasites say nor their soon to be broke allies....Serbia should be closer to the east with Russia and china and the brics ....the new world is merging very fast America is nothing anymore but lies and propaganda .....Serbia should not join the EU......the power is now with Russia and china and so many nations are following them...Kosovo will be with Serbia especially if your friends are Russia and china and the rest of the new world, you listen to the EU and America kiss Kosovo goodbye.....
Read the Ramboulleit agreement. No one would have ever signed it!!! Then the humanitarian bombing began. The only reason why we are having a discussion on Kosovo now is because there was no defense from a unipolar power inside and outside the UN. Russia at the time was weak. Yeltsin was very drunk. After the Kosovo war, Yeltsin was gone and soon after and Putin came to power. The best Kosovars can wish for is greater autonomy within Serbian borders if they want to be on the right side of international law.
you should do some research on a topic that you obviously know little about before you spew nonsense! albania and "kosovo" are neck and neck for the most corrupt in Europe.
And where the famous Russians hypocrites who before were oh-so big defenders of international law, territorial integrity and sovereignty of recognized countries had no problem at all to annex Crimea within a week, thus violating not only territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine, but also the bilateral Budapest agreements where Russia guaranteed the invulnerability of Ukraine's borders, in exchange for Ukraine returning the nuclear weapons located on it's territory to Russia.
(Comm. Parrisson, 28 May 2014 12:42)
NATO went to war over its credibility and its strategic stupidity.
Russia defensively saved its strategic interests in the Black sea.
Try actually reading the Budapest Agreement. You can drive busses through it as the Americans and Europeans were doing by sponsoring the Maidan protests. Or were all those high politicians in Maidan square just illusions? Hypocrite yourself.
albania doesn't even have 100 years of existence. Who do you think you are? Serbia should have done this and that bla bla bla bla. It's not the 90' anymore where the only news source is the mainstream propaganda machine. Wake up and stop trolling.
I take it Mirel that you think Serbs were treated well in Kosovo over the last 91 years then?? Come on cut the comedy, you've got a persecution complex and you need treatment, you fabricate history on an industrial scale. Have as much autonomy as you like but Kosovo and Metohija will remain within Serbia's borders, my friend Vladimir says so.
Simple as this USA started with Kosovo yet denies Palestine the right and Russia did what it did in Ukraine with out firing a shot... Unlike those who illegally bombed and killing civilians for 78 days against UN protocol as well as breaking resolution 1244... Go play with your Albanian friends and take your Serb bashing somewhere else, short man syndrome much ha, USA got involved to put bond-steel up and try and take the natural materials in Kosovo for themselves... Now Belgrade has the deeds to these lands legally hence why USA are still there, but on the other hand Serbia has the right to sell these deeds to someone else pretty much like any land transaction. Now USA isn't buying anything in Serbia but Russians are... Its clear you are pro Siptar and anti Russian/Serbian and you believe every word the BBC says why else would you come on this site and look like a clown
(NjegosUK, 29 May 2014 02:26)
1: I'm a huge supporter of Palestine
2: Russia has the blood of many people in Ukraine on it's hands, both recently and historically.
3: Illegal according to who exactly?
4: I've never 'bashed' a Serb in my life.
5: I'm not anti-Russian, Russia is my favourite country in the world. I'm anti-Putin aka anti-fascist.
6: I'm not anti-Serbian, I'm going to be in Serbia in July, I can't wait!
7: I hate the BBC. My opinions are very different from the BBC's.
8: You come on this site and look like a far right nationalist.
9: You're a Spaz from Halifax... enough said!
I seriously love this, it was Kosovo apparently that gave Russia the green light to intervene in Ukraine. yeah, had Kosovo not declared independence, Russia would stayed out of Ukraine. anyone who seriously believes this, is deluded, a simpleton, naive or all three.
"It was created by NATO and EU to justify their 78 day humanitarian bombing campaign against a sovereign UN member nation in the midst of an internal conflict." - Radovan
FR Yugoslavia didn't join the UN until 1 November 2000. This is a very basic fact when it comes to FR Yugoslavia and the UN.
Wait... you actually think Kosovo was a "natural independence movement"? I guess it could be if you factor out the international involvement, NATO intervention, Vienna conferences, Ahtisaari Plan, EULEX "supervised independence" and barely concealed controlling of events by the United States, Germany, and Great Britain.
You might want to rethink your argument since Kosovo's independence was as naturally artificial as Abkhazia's.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 29 May 2014 04:29)
I would say it was a natural independence movement, after all, there has been an independence movement since at least 1877.
I love it when I read about Ablo trolls talking about corruption...at least you are well versed on the subject. Just because you take over a region by breeding like rabbits doesn't give you the right to claim the land as your own. Like many on here have pointed out many times, please provide historical proof of Albanian presence in Kosovo beyond 100 years.
Ian
Simple as this USA started with Kosovo yet denies Palestine the right and Russia did what it did in Ukraine with out firing a shot... Unlike those who illegally bombed and killing civilians for 78 days against UN protocol as well as breaking resolution 1244... Go play with your Albanian friends and take your Serb bashing somewhere else, short man syndrome much ha, USA got involved to put bond-steel up and try and take the natural materials in Kosovo for themselves... Now Belgrade has the deeds to these lands legally hence why USA are still there, but on the other hand Serbia has the right to sell these deeds to someone else pretty much like any land transaction. Now USA isn't buying anything in Serbia but Russians are... Its clear you are pro Siptar and anti Russian/Serbian and you believe every word the BBC says why else would you come on this site and look like a clown
why else would you come on this site and look like a clown
(NjegosUK, 29 May 2014 02:26)
Maybe you should reread your post before you give that title to anyone else, I think you have reserved it for yourself.
Serbia having the legal deeds to anything in Kosovo is valid in Serbian courts only and pretty much useless paper anywhere else. They could sell the land but you would only find other Serbs foolish enough to buy them.
Oh dear, it seems you've been so consumed by guilt, you have gotten even more crazy than before! i would suggest banging your head against a wall, you know, if might erase your memory of having been a part of KFOR, but then, you would probably do it. thanks for your valuable service again, its down to KFOR personnel that we can and did declare independence
"...Post just had a vision of Karl Marx 'esque Jashari telling he had all the long been dead wrong, asked for deliverance for the crimes he had commited against the lawful owners (Serbs) of KiM, and prophesized that Albanians would eventually return to the land they came from "!
there's two possibilities here: 1) you really can see dead people, or 2) you're hallucinating, brought about by your deep feelings of guilt that your brain is trying to make you feel better by brining on images of deceased individuals so you can sleep better at night. in other words, you've gone gaga. now, since I don't believe you can see dead people, the 2nd possibility is the likely explanation
...and you're wrong as well. its not Albania, its actually Ukraine, then Russia, then Belarus. if you're going to be smart ass, you should at least get your facts right
Is Nikolic sure because Kosovo only did what 'republika srpska' did in Bosnia? Just because Kosovo didn't commit crimes against others and became independent it can't be blamed for other cases. Nikolic shouldn't forget that Vojvodina had the same autonomous status Kosovo had before becoming independent.
...After the Kosovo war, Yeltsin was gone and soon after and Putin came to power. The best Kosovars can wish for is greater autonomy within Serbian borders if they want to be on the right side of international law.
(Radovan, 28 May 2014 17:47) ....
You either don't want to accept the reality or you are high.
It was Putin,not Yelsin, who put his tail betwen his leg and left the Balkans in 2003.It was Putin who doesnt protect his alles like Sadam Husein,Gadafi,Yukanovic and even Asad.Asad is in power not because of Putin but because the West doesnt trust the anti Assad fighters there.
Secondly,Kosovo has been recignized by 106 countries as independent,serbs will vote on June 8th elections with Republic o Kosova in ballot.
What are you talking?
Even the late Dobrica Cosich,the father of serb nationalists said few weeks ago that : "Kosovo is gone for good"
Wake up cut the losses,make a deal with K-Alb and move one.It will be good for Serbia and for Kosova.
Cheers!
When are we going to see a natural independence movement make reference to the so-called "Kosovo Precedent"?
(Ian, UK, 28 May 2014 21:57)
Wait... you actually think Kosovo was a "natural independence movement"? I guess it could be if you factor out the international involvement, NATO intervention, Vienna conferences, Ahtisaari Plan, EULEX "supervised independence" and barely concealed controlling of events by the United States, Germany, and Great Britain.
You might want to rethink your argument since Kosovo's independence was as naturally artificial as Abkhazia's.
Gabriel Keller, a deputy head of the Kosovo Verification Mission (KVM), concurred, saying: “… every pullback by the Yugoslav army or the Serbian police was followed by a movement forward by [KLA] forces [...] OSCE's presence compelled Serbian government forces to a certain restraint [...] and UCK took advantage of this to consolidate its positions everywhere, continuing to smuggle arms from Albania, abducting and killing both civilians and military personnel, Albanians and Serbs alike.”
UK Foreign Minister, Robin Cook, who told the House of Commons on 18 January 1999: “On its part, the Kosovo Liberation Army has committed more breaches of the ceasefire, and until this weekend was responsible for more deaths than the security forces. It must stop undermining the ceasefire and blocking political dialogue.”
UK defence minister George Robertson stated that until shortly before the Nato bombing campaign, "the KLA were responsible for more deaths in Kosovo than the Yugoslav [Serb] authorities had been."
Eventually KiM islamo-fascists, Insh'Allah, will pay for their crimes...
Former US ambassador to Russia and historian, Jack Matlock, acknowledged in 2008, that NATO bombing of Serbia and Kosovo's secession set a precedent. He described Kosovo as a "ward of NATO".
To defend Russia's military action and the referendum in the Crimea is as indefensible - stupid,really - as to deny the West's involvement and planning world-wide in secessions, undemocratic regime changes and coups.
It is just as stupid to deny that the Kosovo unilateral declaration of independence did not establish a precedence.
The New York Times wrote,regarding possible military action in Syria, that Kosovo is an obvious precedent for Mr. Obama.
Liberal war-hawks in the US go as far as to say that the illegal NATO bombing of Serbia sets a "legal precedent'.
In the Sudan, both parties - the parent state and those who wanted to secede- agreed to a separation.
Kosovo set a precedent. Stronger nations have and will continue to use this precedent against the less powerful.
Or should I call you Amatullah? Have been screening the site occasionally and noticed that you are still around - lovely, indeed! Though, most of the time with poorly substantiated comments - just wishful thinking of yours. Change of alias - while putting forward the hard facts in my previous post just had a vision of Karl Marx 'esque Jashari telling he had all the long been dead wrong, asked for deliverance for the crimes he had commited against the lawful owners (Serbs) of KiM, and prophesized that Albanians would eventually return to the land they came from - Arabian Peninsula, so I felt an urge to share some piece of that vision with you, my Dear. Simple as that. To your delight, I sleep excellent after helping Serbs while doing my time with KFOR, as by the way did my brothers-in-arms, at least what was in our power - for that period your kinsmen islamo-fascists didn' t manage to do mush evil in my AOR. As KFOR is leaving you will soon, with a great probablilty, face again your nightmare - Serbian troops - so maybe it is wise to start looking for some sunshade in Arabian desert for living?
Or maybe, before setting off for that, you are eager to rebut all those facts I laid out in my previous post? So far all that KiM' s islamo-fascists have done just voted the Truth down while never daring to challenge the facts revealing Albanians real nature?
Why is it so hard to believe that Kosovo's independence would be nothing without the United States? You honestly believe they could have accomplished this on their own?
(Balkan Anthropologist, 29 May 2014 16:02)
1- Who says that outside help in a certain cause makes that cause automatically artificial? Who invented that rule? If that's the rule then Serbia is totally artificial. Since from the battle of Kosovo onwards it has always had outside help.
2- Sure, we could not have achieved this without the United States. What does stating this even do for you? The fact is that we wanted Serbia off our backs and we got Serbia off our backs. We have the Western world to thank for. This does not diminish the fact that we are now free of Serbia. Wether you call that artificial or not, it doesn't matter to us at all. What matters is that because the Western world, Serbia is no longer killing our children, even though they still hide the bodies inside multi-story building inside Serbia. Our goal was not to satisfy the wishes of an anonymous internet poster about what constitutes natural versus artifical process of ridding Serbia. Our goal was to get rid of Serbia and stop her from killing our childre. We have achieved that goal. No you can put any metaphor, symbolism or analogy that you wish. We simply do not care.
@Ian what a bite too easy haha! by way im not from Halifax, PS you come from Oxenhope hahaha says it all! And the rest jesus you must of been dropped on the head as a baby! And yea i love my country and if that means im a nationalist so be it, id rather love my country and defend it then been a coward
(NjegosUK, 29 May 2014 19:25)
How brave and noble of you, 'defending' your country via the Internet. You're no coward, you're a mighty keyboard warrior. You're country and family must be so proud of you!
Ah so now the numbers are skewed because of ethnic cleansing and intimidating anyone deemed unenthusiastic towards independence.
Because that never happened in Kosovo...
(Balkan Anthropologist, 30 May 2014 17:06)
It did happen in Kosovo, this is why there are many Kosovo Albanians (and their decendents) outside of Kosovo. There are 300,000 in Germany, 200,000 in Switzerland, 100,000 in Macedonia, 50,000 in Sweden ect.
Albanians have always been the majority in Kosovo. Even Serbia's own sources show that when they colonised Kosovo in 1913 that over 75% of Kosovo's population were Albanian.
This is why in 1920, there was an official governemnt process which tried to change the demographics of Kosovo by importing 65,000 Serbs to Kosovo. From 1918 to 1921 there was a mass scale expulsion of Albanians with the Albanian population reducing to 439,500 from around 1 million. Yugoslavia tried to transfer a further 200,000 Albanians to Turkey but WW2 got in the way. Thankfully Tito put an end to this sick government programme when he came to power.
Jahjaga was totally superior to Nikolic.
9 out of 15 members spoke in Kosovas favor. Her speech conveyed in English was of significance and the fact that she is the only woman who is President in the Balkans.
Nikolic's statement was primarily for local consumption. Harsh speech ending up with a "thank you for you help with the poplava'. Lol.
Oh, and the rush to demand a follow-up right after Kosovo delegation asked for it it was hilarious.
Not to mention Jahjagas superiorty right after the meeting ended when she approached him unexpectedly to shake hands.....priceless!!
It's very clear in this address how there is no opposition to Kosovo independence from serbia just the UDI and after the talks are over serbias wish is that they jointly announce Kosovo indepedence.
I would say it was a natural independence movement, after all, there has been an independence movement since at least 1877.
(Ian, UK, 29 May 2014 10:41)
Ah so by that rationale, if there was a "movement" that's existed in whatever embryonic form, then despite the capabilities or not of reaching that goal on one's own, their the movement is "natural". By that logic many, if not all, of the movements you deride as Russian sponsored are natural.
Longevity makes it natural? That's an even weaker argument than self-capability.
Even the United States needed outside help in achieving independence, and even there, only one-third of the population was openly in favor of it. What's more, the movement for independence was less than a decade old at the time of the Declaration. Americans might be a little irate to hear you think so little of their efforts at becoming a state of their own.
Why is it so hard to believe that Kosovo's independence would be nothing without the United States? You honestly believe they could have accomplished this on their own?
@Ian what a bite too easy haha! by way im not from Halifax, PS you come from Oxenhope hahaha says it all! And the rest jesus you must of been dropped on the head as a baby! And yea i love my country and if that means im a nationalist so be it, id rather love my country and defend it then been a coward
In the Sudan, both parties - the parent state and those who wanted to secede- agreed to a separation.
Kosovo set a precedent. Stronger nations have and will continue to use this precedent against the less powerful.
(Roger7, 29 May 2014 14:59)
Fantastic, the Sudan precedent is such a better model, don't you think??
They were at civil war for decades not just a few days, it resulted in millions of dead. It is hard to believe that someone advocates that millions of Serbs should have died before Kosovo should be allowed to be independent.
The Kosovo precedent, is only being used by Russia who says that it was illegal when they want to split off a portion of another country to become part of the new Soviet bloc. Only a fool would really believe in a "Kosovo precendent" in either Georgia or Ukraine
Of course I agree that the "Kosovo precedent" should be cited in all instances where the UNSC has determined that a country's actions against a region in that country is so horrendous that the UNSC must take control over that region and strip the country of any political, military, or economic control.
So now lets list the places this has occurred.
well, i may have had some hallucinations but unlike you I am able to read the facts and draw some conclusions. that is good that you loose nerve so easily as most of islamofascists, and that will make Serb troops work much easier while taking back KiM. last time we discussed the religious questions you got out of hands that you literally "screamed" in a written form - f..k jesus. f..k muhhamed and even f..k all of islamofascists in KiM! That was the moment of truth.
Still waiting for your balanced comments on thes said facts:
Gabriel Keller, a deputy head of the Kosovo Verification Mission (KVM), concurred, saying: “… every pullback by the Yugoslav UCK took advantage of this to consolidate its positions everywhere, continuing to smuggle arms from Albania, abducting and killing both civilians and military personnel, Albanians and Serbs alike.”
UK FM, Robin Cook, who told the House of Commons on 18 January 1999: “On its part, the KLA has committed more breaches of the ceasefire, and until this weekend was responsible for more deaths than the security forces. It must stop undermining the ceasefire and blocking political dialogue.”
UK defence minister George Robertson stated that until shortly before the Nato bombing campaign, "the KLA were responsible for more deaths in Kosovo than the Yugoslav [Serb] authorities had been."
what do you mean may? you wrote yesterday that you had seen a vision of a dead person who went on to ask for repentance. now, you tell you draw facts from that vision? i don't know dude, you have me worried for you mental state, its not good to hallucinate. seek help, before you became a danger to yourself and more importantly, others
Read the Ramboulleit agreement. No one would have ever signed it!!! Then the humanitarian bombing began. The only reason why we are having a discussion on Kosovo now is because there was no defense from a unipolar power inside and outside the UN. Russia at the time was weak. Yeltsin was very drunk. After the Kosovo war, Yeltsin was gone and soon after and Putin came to power.
(Radovan, 28 May 2014 17:47)
When Yeltsin was in power, he sent the Russian soldiers in Kosovo a dared NATO; when Putin came to power, he withdrew the Russian soldiers from there. I don't think any further comment is needed... The facts speak more than words...
----------
The best Kosovars can wish for is greater autonomy within Serbian borders
(Radovan, 28 May 2014 17:47)
Well, they have already more than that, whether we like it or not
----------
if they want to be on the right side of international law.
(Radovan, 28 May 2014 17:47)
Upon Serbia's request, ICJ has already determined that the Kosovars are on the right side of international law. So there is nothing to debate here. It is an easy choice between a certain Radovan's opinion and ICJ's opinion,
Now Belgrade has the deeds to these lands legally hence why USA are still there, but on the other hand Serbia has the right to sell these deeds to someone else pretty much like any land transaction.
(NjegosUK, 29 May 2014 02:26)
that's great... I've been asking to see those deeds for some time. Any place where we can see them? Btw, how did Serbia get those deeds ? My apologies in advance if I'm assuming incorrectly that Kosovo's was not Serbian land since Earth's creation in the year 4.500.000.000 BC!
I never said that and you're dodging your own argument. The people of Kosovo wanted independence as much as the people of Abkhazia and other places you seem to be unable or unwilling to extend your logic towards.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 29 May 2014 23:27)
Over 50% of Abkazia's population were forcibly kicked out in the early 1990's and a further 30,000 were killed/ slaughtered/ butchered. This radically changed the ethnic make-up of Abkhazia to make the previously minority Abkhaz the majority.
Now you're just getting desperate. I like how you consider yourself a normal European, its almost as if you're over compensating for something. as for quoting the Quran at me, not sure what that has to do with anything, if that's your way of telling me you're well versed in literature, then good for you.
as for as our independence goes, let us put it this way, we did declare one in 1992, but there were no NATO soldiers to fall back on. thankfully you, by serving in KFOR, guaranteed that the one in 2008 would stick. for that, we owe you our eternal gratitude. p.s. how often do you have those visions?
@exKfor
oh please, you do not need to remind me of your Christian fundamentalism, I've read that before.
thing is though, you can say you do not need to reassure yourself about being European, but the very fact that you subconsciously seem to need to write it, suggests a certain insecurity about it. as for this: "... never were, never will! ", not one person is asking or is going to ask for your blessing on it, so deal with it how you like. thus far your way of dealing with it, is by having hallucinations.
as for what Cook & Robertson said, sunshine, I have read your opinions before. you told me that Albanians had filled grave sites with animal remains, so as to fool forensic experts. to exchange ideas with people who genuinely believe that, is a futile exercise. so there's nothing left to do, other than to thanks you once more for the service that you gave to KFOR, for having kept Serbia's army out, but at the same time, for being worried about these apparitions you're having. its what happens when one is religious, your brain rots and you get visions
Ah so by that rationale, if there was a "movement" that's existed in whatever embryonic form, then despite the capabilities or not of reaching that goal on one's own, their the movement is "natural". By that logic many, if not all, of the movements you deride as Russian sponsored are natural.
Longevity makes it natural? That's an even weaker argument than self-capability.
Even the United States needed outside help in achieving independence, and even there, only one-third of the population was openly in favor of it. What's more, the movement for independence was less than a decade old at the time of the Declaration. Americans might be a little irate to hear you think so little of their efforts at becoming a state of their own.
Why is it so hard to believe that Kosovo's independence would be nothing without the United States? You honestly believe they could have accomplished this on their own?
(Balkan Anthropologist, 29 May 2014 16:02)
Yeah, you're right. The people of Kosovo didn't even want to become independent, it's all just lies and propaganda from the evil BBC.
unlike your KiM islamo-fascists i do not need to reassure I am an euroepan, a normal one, whose roots lie in judeo-christianity - so there's nothing to comfort myself about. another thing is that your and ilk of yours do it on this site every day trying to be sooo eagerly "Euroepans" - never were, never will! Interesting, the other day you were trying to prove how "european" your brothers turks were and that, in fact, Europe needed those "enlightened" mohhamedans and not vice a versa - carry on with your delusional dreams. regarding islamic terrorist Jashari - every time i look at the pics of his destroyed house turned into ridiculous "Mecca" i recall the talks with brave Serb officers who sent this genocidal lunatic into Hell - unfortunately, according to Alb best traditions, he condemned his family to there as well - only cowards fight from behind womens' skirts - and sure he was one of them. so consider , that i see those hallucinations incessantly- but you know - as it is said that "blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven", and you consider i am one of them, then not everything is lost for me, so pray for my soul!
Still waiting for your comments to statments of Cook, Roberston...
take care!
Yeah, you're right. The people of Kosovo didn't even want to become independent, it's all just lies and propaganda from the evil BBC.
(Ian, UK, 29 May 2014 19:30)
I never said that and you're dodging your own argument. The people of Kosovo wanted independence as much as the people of Abkhazia and other places you seem to be unable or unwilling to extend your logic towards.
Nikolle or Ms. Wurst or Amatullah - or what was your real impersonation? Still waiting, as any other normal european, your substantiated answers to Cook's, Robertson' s and etc statements, in fact making KiM islamo-fascists guilty of starting a illegal war in Serbia? If you ain't able to come up with a single explanation/excuse, then u r kindly advised to resort to ur holly bookk - Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" - PBUH - piss be upon him(Voldemort of course)!
And by the way, ICC never declared your illegal seccsion to be in line with IL but only that anyone can declare in their simple-mindedness what ever they want, it is like that Albanian civilization is a cradle of the World - fully in compliance with IL! Point is that US supported u and that counts, might is right but nothing lasts forever - not even your delusional "independence"
Over 50% of Abkazia's population were forcibly kicked out in the early 1990's and a further 30,000 were killed/ slaughtered/ butchered. This radically changed the ethnic make-up of Abkhazia to make the previously minority Abkhaz the majority.
(Ian, UK, 30 May 2014 10:33)
Ah so now the numbers are skewed because of ethnic cleansing and intimidating anyone deemed unenthusiastic towards independence.
"Yeah, you're right. The people of Kosovo didn't even want to become independent, it's all just lies and propaganda from the evil BBC."
(Ian, UK, 29 May 2014 19:30)
He probably only meant: Without the USA, Kosovo would be as 'independent' as South Ossetia, Abchazia and Northern Cyprus.
The ICTY ruled that an UDI is allowed for any group of people, but it has no legal consequences at all, only recognitions by other states makes a state.
"President of Serbia, a country where corruption is at highest in Europe and more, a country known for commiting crimes against humanity on daily basis is trying to tell EU what is law and whats lawless. "
(USAlbania, 28 May 2014 12:47)
You must be a bit malinformed. The country with highest corruption in Europe is - guess what? No, not Kosovo, as people might think. Kosovo is 'only' on #2. It's Albania, according to the latest corruption index.
Congratulations!
Your logic is interesting...but not in an interesting way..more of a WTF..are you delusional..way. First you have achieved nothing and you will never be rid of Serbia, it's her Church's that dot the landscape in KiM and her history that supports it.
The U.S. built a base in Serbia (which is illegal) and tore a piece of Serbia off and gave it to Albanians (which is also illegal). The US drove the whole process and presented to the Albanians on a platter. You don't understand.. THEY OWN YOU NOW!!! you will never be free. The elite (if you want to call it that) in Kosovo are the US' lapdogs..and you think your better off?
Everyone in the Balkans is a victim, not just you and your children. Finally if you simply didn't care, then why the long winded response??
President of Serbia, a country where corruption is at highest in Europe and more, a country known for commiting crimes against humanity on daily basis is trying to tell EU what is law and whats lawless. Come on guys who does he think he is, who does he think is he trying to fool exceptof himself and some people in serbia. Another session where Nicolic asked and beged for money as known serbian beggers. Shame on you serbia. You should not be allowed outside jungle let alone joining EU.
@Radovan
Open the newspapers before you are spreading rubbish serbia propoganda.
Albanians held their referendum since 1992,where 99.99% of albanians voted for independence.
Bringing the Crimea case if funny from serbs.
Because as far as we have seen in Crimea ,Ukraine army didnt kill and rape any of russians in Crimea and Crimea didnt follow Kosovo's path.
Btw,you serbs are on the side of russians when it comes to Crimea.
As for Kosovo,you are right,there was not any country called Kosovo,but there is a country called Albania where Kosovo( or at least most of it) belongs.
If you were not greedy in 1913 you shuld have gotten 40% of Kosovo where non albanian population resided.But you were greedy you wanted all,Kosovo and North Albania until Durres.
And you always have been greedy and never consider than in Kosovo there is a majority of people who are Albanian.
For God's sake even today you are talking like no Albanian are leaving in Kosovo.
The reason that you were bombed for 78 days,was that you didnt wanted to compromise( the West wanted authomomy back intil 1999) and you misssed all the oportunities for compromise.You still missing the oportutinites for compromise.You will end up with nothing in the end.
The only smart man that you had PM ,and wanted to compromise with Albanians and the West,ended up dead.
With him you would have had North and albanians the rest.
I take it Mirel that you think Serbs were treated well in Kosovo over the last 91 years then?? Come on cut the comedy, you've got a persecution complex and you need treatment, you fabricate history on an industrial scale. Have as much autonomy as you like but Kosovo and Metohija will remain within Serbia's borders, my friend Vladimir says so.
There will continue to be more hotspots were "international law" can interpreted differently. There never was a country call Kosovo. It was created by NATO and EU to justify their 78 day humanitarian bombing campaign against a sovereign UN member nation in the midst of an internal conflict. On it's own, Kosovo cannot survive without major donors. Without the ethnically cleansed Serb population, it has an even less chance of surviving. Crimea was a perfect example of how international law can be interpreted differently. They even had a referendum unlike the Albanian UDI. EU double standards in your face!!!!
Serbia should never believe anything American parasites say nor their soon to be broke allies....Serbia should be closer to the east with Russia and china and the brics ....the new world is merging very fast America is nothing anymore but lies and propaganda .....Serbia should not join the EU......the power is now with Russia and china and so many nations are following them...Kosovo will be with Serbia especially if your friends are Russia and china and the rest of the new world, you listen to the EU and America kiss Kosovo goodbye.....
And where the famous Russians hypocrites who before were oh-so big defenders of international law, territorial integrity and sovereignty of recognized countries had no problem at all to annex Crimea within a week, thus violating not only territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine, but also the bilateral Budapest agreements where Russia guaranteed the invulnerability of Ukraine's borders, in exchange for Ukraine returning the nuclear weapons located on it's territory to Russia.
(Comm. Parrisson, 28 May 2014 12:42)
That was before NATO expansion into ex soviet states in an attempt to contain and break apart Russian. In Ukraine, a coup took over the government which in all likelihood would have tried to kick the Russian navy out of Crimea and out of the Black Sea. Everyone has to play by the same rules or international law is one big joke. Like "Kosova". :P
If Kosovo really did set a "precedent", how come Russia (the author of the so-called "Kosovo Precedent" theory) has to prove their theory by force down the barrel of a Russian gun?
If the "Kosovo Precedent" was actually true, surely Russia could prove it by letting it occur naturally instead of engineering separatism through military force upon their immediate neighbours?
The "Kosovo Precedent" is an artificial manufactured theory which was authored by Putin and it is used to oppose the independence of Kosovo; this is why Putin approved the "Declaration of Independence of the Republic of Crimea" script, which was only made possible through Russian military engineering upon Putin's orders.
When are we going to see a natural independence movement make reference to the so-called "Kosovo Precedent"? Take a look at some independence movements since 2008 where the Russian Military haven't been involved: South Sudan, Veneto, Scotland, Catalonia, Bougainville, New Caledonia, Greenland ect. How come none of these have drawn parallels to Kosovo? Because they aren't following orders from Russia and the “Kosovo Precedent” theory is a fallacy.
"No one should expect us to willingly and quietly submit to our own destruction," the president stated
Such poor choice of words. I certainly can assure you that you can recognize Kosovo today and Serbia will not be destroyed instead a heavy burden will be lifted from its shoulders. Only nationlists and babbling idiots think Serbia will be destroyed if it recognizes Kosovo.
Either way it is in Serbia interest to wash its hands with Kosovo and chart its future as majority of the rational politicians in Serbia know this. The questions is how to do it with the least trauma effects. As anyone with 2 cent brain will tell you Kosovo has been drain on Serbia in all aspects of life and the point has been reached where enough is enough.
Read the Ramboulleit agreement. No one would have ever signed it!!! Then the humanitarian bombing began. The only reason why we are having a discussion on Kosovo now is because there was no defense from a unipolar power inside and outside the UN. Russia at the time was weak. Yeltsin was very drunk. After the Kosovo war, Yeltsin was gone and soon after and Putin came to power. The best Kosovars can wish for is greater autonomy within Serbian borders if they want to be on the right side of international law.
unlike your KiM islamo-fascists i do not need to reassure I am an euroepan, a normal one, whose roots lie in judeo-christianity - so there's nothing to comfort myself about. another thing is that your and ilk of yours do it on this site every day trying to be sooo eagerly "Euroepans" - never were, never will! Interesting, the other day you were trying to prove how "european" your brothers turks were and that, in fact, Europe needed those "enlightened" mohhamedans and not vice a versa - carry on with your delusional dreams. regarding islamic terrorist Jashari - every time i look at the pics of his destroyed house turned into ridiculous "Mecca" i recall the talks with brave Serb officers who sent this genocidal lunatic into Hell - unfortunately, according to Alb best traditions, he condemned his family to there as well - only cowards fight from behind womens' skirts - and sure he was one of them. so consider , that i see those hallucinations incessantly- but you know - as it is said that "blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven", and you consider i am one of them, then not everything is lost for me, so pray for my soul!
Still waiting for your comments to statments of Cook, Roberston...
take care!
albania doesn't even have 100 years of existence. Who do you think you are? Serbia should have done this and that bla bla bla bla. It's not the 90' anymore where the only news source is the mainstream propaganda machine. Wake up and stop trolling.
you should do some research on a topic that you obviously know little about before you spew nonsense! albania and "kosovo" are neck and neck for the most corrupt in Europe.
"Any decision, just or unjust, must follow a certain rule or regulation, while the very existence of international law guarantees legal safety, abolishes voluntaryism and arbitrariness and ensures legality. Otherwise, modern civilization would not be any different from the Medieval, and in that event we would have not learned anything from the past," Nikolić stated.
International law ruled that Kosova's Declaration of Independence was legal. Therefore Serbia should accept this decision and everything that derives from that: just or unjust, and Serbia must follow this rule and/or regulation, because the very existence of international law guarantees legal safety, abolishes voluntaryism and arbitrariness and ensures legality. Otherwise, modern civilization would not be any different from the Medieval times, and in that event Serbia would have not learned anything from the past,
Oh, but wait. We are dealing with Serbia here. You like to preach, but only onto others, not to yourself. Hypocrites.
And where the famous Russians hypocrites who before were oh-so big defenders of international law, territorial integrity and sovereignty of recognized countries had no problem at all to annex Crimea within a week, thus violating not only territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine, but also the bilateral Budapest agreements where Russia guaranteed the invulnerability of Ukraine's borders, in exchange for Ukraine returning the nuclear weapons located on it's territory to Russia.
(Comm. Parrisson, 28 May 2014 12:42)
NATO went to war over its credibility and its strategic stupidity.
Russia defensively saved its strategic interests in the Black sea.
Try actually reading the Budapest Agreement. You can drive busses through it as the Americans and Europeans were doing by sponsoring the Maidan protests. Or were all those high politicians in Maidan square just illusions? Hypocrite yourself.
When are we going to see a natural independence movement make reference to the so-called "Kosovo Precedent"?
(Ian, UK, 28 May 2014 21:57)
Wait... you actually think Kosovo was a "natural independence movement"? I guess it could be if you factor out the international involvement, NATO intervention, Vienna conferences, Ahtisaari Plan, EULEX "supervised independence" and barely concealed controlling of events by the United States, Germany, and Great Britain.
You might want to rethink your argument since Kosovo's independence was as naturally artificial as Abkhazia's.
Simple as this USA started with Kosovo yet denies Palestine the right and Russia did what it did in Ukraine with out firing a shot... Unlike those who illegally bombed and killing civilians for 78 days against UN protocol as well as breaking resolution 1244... Go play with your Albanian friends and take your Serb bashing somewhere else, short man syndrome much ha, USA got involved to put bond-steel up and try and take the natural materials in Kosovo for themselves... Now Belgrade has the deeds to these lands legally hence why USA are still there, but on the other hand Serbia has the right to sell these deeds to someone else pretty much like any land transaction. Now USA isn't buying anything in Serbia but Russians are... Its clear you are pro Siptar and anti Russian/Serbian and you believe every word the BBC says why else would you come on this site and look like a clown
(NjegosUK, 29 May 2014 02:26)
1: I'm a huge supporter of Palestine
2: Russia has the blood of many people in Ukraine on it's hands, both recently and historically.
3: Illegal according to who exactly?
4: I've never 'bashed' a Serb in my life.
5: I'm not anti-Russian, Russia is my favourite country in the world. I'm anti-Putin aka anti-fascist.
6: I'm not anti-Serbian, I'm going to be in Serbia in July, I can't wait!
7: I hate the BBC. My opinions are very different from the BBC's.
8: You come on this site and look like a far right nationalist.
9: You're a Spaz from Halifax... enough said!
Over 50% of Abkazia's population were forcibly kicked out in the early 1990's and a further 30,000 were killed/ slaughtered/ butchered. This radically changed the ethnic make-up of Abkhazia to make the previously minority Abkhaz the majority.
(Ian, UK, 30 May 2014 10:33)
Ah so now the numbers are skewed because of ethnic cleansing and intimidating anyone deemed unenthusiastic towards independence.
Actually wasted breath as in no one outside of Serbia and Russia believe that Kosovo was a precedent for Crimea.
sdg
You only proved the point he was making, look at the other countries of Europe. You will also note that most of Serbian supporters are on the lower scoring side of the scale. Kosovo which Serbs like to highlight the corruption is only 9 points behind Serbia and is 5 points ahead of Serbia's biggest supporter Russia.
I love it when I read about Ablo trolls talking about corruption...at least you are well versed on the subject. Just because you take over a region by breeding like rabbits doesn't give you the right to claim the land as your own. Like many on here have pointed out many times, please provide historical proof of Albanian presence in Kosovo beyond 100 years.
...After the Kosovo war, Yeltsin was gone and soon after and Putin came to power. The best Kosovars can wish for is greater autonomy within Serbian borders if they want to be on the right side of international law.
(Radovan, 28 May 2014 17:47) ....
You either don't want to accept the reality or you are high.
It was Putin,not Yelsin, who put his tail betwen his leg and left the Balkans in 2003.It was Putin who doesnt protect his alles like Sadam Husein,Gadafi,Yukanovic and even Asad.Asad is in power not because of Putin but because the West doesnt trust the anti Assad fighters there.
Secondly,Kosovo has been recignized by 106 countries as independent,serbs will vote on June 8th elections with Republic o Kosova in ballot.
What are you talking?
Even the late Dobrica Cosich,the father of serb nationalists said few weeks ago that : "Kosovo is gone for good"
Wake up cut the losses,make a deal with K-Alb and move one.It will be good for Serbia and for Kosova.
Cheers!
Wait... you actually think Kosovo was a "natural independence movement"? I guess it could be if you factor out the international involvement, NATO intervention, Vienna conferences, Ahtisaari Plan, EULEX "supervised independence" and barely concealed controlling of events by the United States, Germany, and Great Britain.
You might want to rethink your argument since Kosovo's independence was as naturally artificial as Abkhazia's.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 29 May 2014 04:29)
I would say it was a natural independence movement, after all, there has been an independence movement since at least 1877.
Gabriel Keller, a deputy head of the Kosovo Verification Mission (KVM), concurred, saying: “… every pullback by the Yugoslav army or the Serbian police was followed by a movement forward by [KLA] forces [...] OSCE's presence compelled Serbian government forces to a certain restraint [...] and UCK took advantage of this to consolidate its positions everywhere, continuing to smuggle arms from Albania, abducting and killing both civilians and military personnel, Albanians and Serbs alike.”
UK Foreign Minister, Robin Cook, who told the House of Commons on 18 January 1999: “On its part, the Kosovo Liberation Army has committed more breaches of the ceasefire, and until this weekend was responsible for more deaths than the security forces. It must stop undermining the ceasefire and blocking political dialogue.”
UK defence minister George Robertson stated that until shortly before the Nato bombing campaign, "the KLA were responsible for more deaths in Kosovo than the Yugoslav [Serb] authorities had been."
Eventually KiM islamo-fascists, Insh'Allah, will pay for their crimes...
Former US ambassador to Russia and historian, Jack Matlock, acknowledged in 2008, that NATO bombing of Serbia and Kosovo's secession set a precedent. He described Kosovo as a "ward of NATO".
To defend Russia's military action and the referendum in the Crimea is as indefensible - stupid,really - as to deny the West's involvement and planning world-wide in secessions, undemocratic regime changes and coups.
It is just as stupid to deny that the Kosovo unilateral declaration of independence did not establish a precedence.
The New York Times wrote,regarding possible military action in Syria, that Kosovo is an obvious precedent for Mr. Obama.
Liberal war-hawks in the US go as far as to say that the illegal NATO bombing of Serbia sets a "legal precedent'.
In the Sudan, both parties - the parent state and those who wanted to secede- agreed to a separation.
Kosovo set a precedent. Stronger nations have and will continue to use this precedent against the less powerful.
Nikolle or Ms. Wurst or Amatullah - or what was your real impersonation? Still waiting, as any other normal european, your substantiated answers to Cook's, Robertson' s and etc statements, in fact making KiM islamo-fascists guilty of starting a illegal war in Serbia? If you ain't able to come up with a single explanation/excuse, then u r kindly advised to resort to ur holly bookk - Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" - PBUH - piss be upon him(Voldemort of course)!
And by the way, ICC never declared your illegal seccsion to be in line with IL but only that anyone can declare in their simple-mindedness what ever they want, it is like that Albanian civilization is a cradle of the World - fully in compliance with IL! Point is that US supported u and that counts, might is right but nothing lasts forever - not even your delusional "independence"
Your logic is interesting...but not in an interesting way..more of a WTF..are you delusional..way. First you have achieved nothing and you will never be rid of Serbia, it's her Church's that dot the landscape in KiM and her history that supports it.
The U.S. built a base in Serbia (which is illegal) and tore a piece of Serbia off and gave it to Albanians (which is also illegal). The US drove the whole process and presented to the Albanians on a platter. You don't understand.. THEY OWN YOU NOW!!! you will never be free. The elite (if you want to call it that) in Kosovo are the US' lapdogs..and you think your better off?
Everyone in the Balkans is a victim, not just you and your children. Finally if you simply didn't care, then why the long winded response??
"Then, there came Crimea, where the people and the authorities of that peninsula, in declaring their independence, invoked 'the famous Kosovo precedent which Western countries helped create themselves,'" Nikolić said."
And where the famous Russians hypocrites who before were oh-so big defenders of international law, territorial integrity and sovereignty of recognized countries had no problem at all to annex Crimea within a week, thus violating not only territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine, but also the bilateral Budapest agreements where Russia guaranteed the invulnerability of Ukraine's borders, in exchange for Ukraine returning the nuclear weapons located on it's territory to Russia.
I seriously love this, it was Kosovo apparently that gave Russia the green light to intervene in Ukraine. yeah, had Kosovo not declared independence, Russia would stayed out of Ukraine. anyone who seriously believes this, is deluded, a simpleton, naive or all three.
Ian
Simple as this USA started with Kosovo yet denies Palestine the right and Russia did what it did in Ukraine with out firing a shot... Unlike those who illegally bombed and killing civilians for 78 days against UN protocol as well as breaking resolution 1244... Go play with your Albanian friends and take your Serb bashing somewhere else, short man syndrome much ha, USA got involved to put bond-steel up and try and take the natural materials in Kosovo for themselves... Now Belgrade has the deeds to these lands legally hence why USA are still there, but on the other hand Serbia has the right to sell these deeds to someone else pretty much like any land transaction. Now USA isn't buying anything in Serbia but Russians are... Its clear you are pro Siptar and anti Russian/Serbian and you believe every word the BBC says why else would you come on this site and look like a clown
I would say it was a natural independence movement, after all, there has been an independence movement since at least 1877.
(Ian, UK, 29 May 2014 10:41)
Ah so by that rationale, if there was a "movement" that's existed in whatever embryonic form, then despite the capabilities or not of reaching that goal on one's own, their the movement is "natural". By that logic many, if not all, of the movements you deride as Russian sponsored are natural.
Longevity makes it natural? That's an even weaker argument than self-capability.
Even the United States needed outside help in achieving independence, and even there, only one-third of the population was openly in favor of it. What's more, the movement for independence was less than a decade old at the time of the Declaration. Americans might be a little irate to hear you think so little of their efforts at becoming a state of their own.
Why is it so hard to believe that Kosovo's independence would be nothing without the United States? You honestly believe they could have accomplished this on their own?
Oh dear, it seems you've been so consumed by guilt, you have gotten even more crazy than before! i would suggest banging your head against a wall, you know, if might erase your memory of having been a part of KFOR, but then, you would probably do it. thanks for your valuable service again, its down to KFOR personnel that we can and did declare independence
"...Post just had a vision of Karl Marx 'esque Jashari telling he had all the long been dead wrong, asked for deliverance for the crimes he had commited against the lawful owners (Serbs) of KiM, and prophesized that Albanians would eventually return to the land they came from "!
there's two possibilities here: 1) you really can see dead people, or 2) you're hallucinating, brought about by your deep feelings of guilt that your brain is trying to make you feel better by brining on images of deceased individuals so you can sleep better at night. in other words, you've gone gaga. now, since I don't believe you can see dead people, the 2nd possibility is the likely explanation
@Ian what a bite too easy haha! by way im not from Halifax, PS you come from Oxenhope hahaha says it all! And the rest jesus you must of been dropped on the head as a baby! And yea i love my country and if that means im a nationalist so be it, id rather love my country and defend it then been a coward
@Ian what a bite too easy haha! by way im not from Halifax, PS you come from Oxenhope hahaha says it all! And the rest jesus you must of been dropped on the head as a baby! And yea i love my country and if that means im a nationalist so be it, id rather love my country and defend it then been a coward
(NjegosUK, 29 May 2014 19:25)
How brave and noble of you, 'defending' your country via the Internet. You're no coward, you're a mighty keyboard warrior. You're country and family must be so proud of you!
"President of Serbia, a country where corruption is at highest in Europe and more, a country known for commiting crimes against humanity on daily basis is trying to tell EU what is law and whats lawless. "
(USAlbania, 28 May 2014 12:47)
You must be a bit malinformed. The country with highest corruption in Europe is - guess what? No, not Kosovo, as people might think. Kosovo is 'only' on #2. It's Albania, according to the latest corruption index.
Congratulations!
Is Nikolic sure because Kosovo only did what 'republika srpska' did in Bosnia? Just because Kosovo didn't commit crimes against others and became independent it can't be blamed for other cases. Nikolic shouldn't forget that Vojvodina had the same autonomous status Kosovo had before becoming independent.
It's very clear in this address how there is no opposition to Kosovo independence from serbia just the UDI and after the talks are over serbias wish is that they jointly announce Kosovo indepedence.
"It was created by NATO and EU to justify their 78 day humanitarian bombing campaign against a sovereign UN member nation in the midst of an internal conflict." - Radovan
FR Yugoslavia didn't join the UN until 1 November 2000. This is a very basic fact when it comes to FR Yugoslavia and the UN.
Or should I call you Amatullah? Have been screening the site occasionally and noticed that you are still around - lovely, indeed! Though, most of the time with poorly substantiated comments - just wishful thinking of yours. Change of alias - while putting forward the hard facts in my previous post just had a vision of Karl Marx 'esque Jashari telling he had all the long been dead wrong, asked for deliverance for the crimes he had commited against the lawful owners (Serbs) of KiM, and prophesized that Albanians would eventually return to the land they came from - Arabian Peninsula, so I felt an urge to share some piece of that vision with you, my Dear. Simple as that. To your delight, I sleep excellent after helping Serbs while doing my time with KFOR, as by the way did my brothers-in-arms, at least what was in our power - for that period your kinsmen islamo-fascists didn' t manage to do mush evil in my AOR. As KFOR is leaving you will soon, with a great probablilty, face again your nightmare - Serbian troops - so maybe it is wise to start looking for some sunshade in Arabian desert for living?
Or maybe, before setting off for that, you are eager to rebut all those facts I laid out in my previous post? So far all that KiM' s islamo-fascists have done just voted the Truth down while never daring to challenge the facts revealing Albanians real nature?
Ah so by that rationale, if there was a "movement" that's existed in whatever embryonic form, then despite the capabilities or not of reaching that goal on one's own, their the movement is "natural". By that logic many, if not all, of the movements you deride as Russian sponsored are natural.
Longevity makes it natural? That's an even weaker argument than self-capability.
Even the United States needed outside help in achieving independence, and even there, only one-third of the population was openly in favor of it. What's more, the movement for independence was less than a decade old at the time of the Declaration. Americans might be a little irate to hear you think so little of their efforts at becoming a state of their own.
Why is it so hard to believe that Kosovo's independence would be nothing without the United States? You honestly believe they could have accomplished this on their own?
(Balkan Anthropologist, 29 May 2014 16:02)
Yeah, you're right. The people of Kosovo didn't even want to become independent, it's all just lies and propaganda from the evil BBC.
In the Sudan, both parties - the parent state and those who wanted to secede- agreed to a separation.
Kosovo set a precedent. Stronger nations have and will continue to use this precedent against the less powerful.
(Roger7, 29 May 2014 14:59)
Fantastic, the Sudan precedent is such a better model, don't you think??
They were at civil war for decades not just a few days, it resulted in millions of dead. It is hard to believe that someone advocates that millions of Serbs should have died before Kosovo should be allowed to be independent.
The Kosovo precedent, is only being used by Russia who says that it was illegal when they want to split off a portion of another country to become part of the new Soviet bloc. Only a fool would really believe in a "Kosovo precendent" in either Georgia or Ukraine
Of course I agree that the "Kosovo precedent" should be cited in all instances where the UNSC has determined that a country's actions against a region in that country is so horrendous that the UNSC must take control over that region and strip the country of any political, military, or economic control.
So now lets list the places this has occurred.
Yeah, you're right. The people of Kosovo didn't even want to become independent, it's all just lies and propaganda from the evil BBC.
(Ian, UK, 29 May 2014 19:30)
I never said that and you're dodging your own argument. The people of Kosovo wanted independence as much as the people of Abkhazia and other places you seem to be unable or unwilling to extend your logic towards.
well, i may have had some hallucinations but unlike you I am able to read the facts and draw some conclusions. that is good that you loose nerve so easily as most of islamofascists, and that will make Serb troops work much easier while taking back KiM. last time we discussed the religious questions you got out of hands that you literally "screamed" in a written form - f..k jesus. f..k muhhamed and even f..k all of islamofascists in KiM! That was the moment of truth.
Still waiting for your balanced comments on thes said facts:
Gabriel Keller, a deputy head of the Kosovo Verification Mission (KVM), concurred, saying: “… every pullback by the Yugoslav UCK took advantage of this to consolidate its positions everywhere, continuing to smuggle arms from Albania, abducting and killing both civilians and military personnel, Albanians and Serbs alike.”
UK FM, Robin Cook, who told the House of Commons on 18 January 1999: “On its part, the KLA has committed more breaches of the ceasefire, and until this weekend was responsible for more deaths than the security forces. It must stop undermining the ceasefire and blocking political dialogue.”
UK defence minister George Robertson stated that until shortly before the Nato bombing campaign, "the KLA were responsible for more deaths in Kosovo than the Yugoslav [Serb] authorities had been."
Why is it so hard to believe that Kosovo's independence would be nothing without the United States? You honestly believe they could have accomplished this on their own?
(Balkan Anthropologist, 29 May 2014 16:02)
1- Who says that outside help in a certain cause makes that cause automatically artificial? Who invented that rule? If that's the rule then Serbia is totally artificial. Since from the battle of Kosovo onwards it has always had outside help.
2- Sure, we could not have achieved this without the United States. What does stating this even do for you? The fact is that we wanted Serbia off our backs and we got Serbia off our backs. We have the Western world to thank for. This does not diminish the fact that we are now free of Serbia. Wether you call that artificial or not, it doesn't matter to us at all. What matters is that because the Western world, Serbia is no longer killing our children, even though they still hide the bodies inside multi-story building inside Serbia. Our goal was not to satisfy the wishes of an anonymous internet poster about what constitutes natural versus artifical process of ridding Serbia. Our goal was to get rid of Serbia and stop her from killing our childre. We have achieved that goal. No you can put any metaphor, symbolism or analogy that you wish. We simply do not care.
Read the Ramboulleit agreement. No one would have ever signed it!!! Then the humanitarian bombing began. The only reason why we are having a discussion on Kosovo now is because there was no defense from a unipolar power inside and outside the UN. Russia at the time was weak. Yeltsin was very drunk. After the Kosovo war, Yeltsin was gone and soon after and Putin came to power.
(Radovan, 28 May 2014 17:47)
When Yeltsin was in power, he sent the Russian soldiers in Kosovo a dared NATO; when Putin came to power, he withdrew the Russian soldiers from there. I don't think any further comment is needed... The facts speak more than words...
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The best Kosovars can wish for is greater autonomy within Serbian borders
(Radovan, 28 May 2014 17:47)
Well, they have already more than that, whether we like it or not
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if they want to be on the right side of international law.
(Radovan, 28 May 2014 17:47)
Upon Serbia's request, ICJ has already determined that the Kosovars are on the right side of international law. So there is nothing to debate here. It is an easy choice between a certain Radovan's opinion and ICJ's opinion,
why else would you come on this site and look like a clown
(NjegosUK, 29 May 2014 02:26)
Maybe you should reread your post before you give that title to anyone else, I think you have reserved it for yourself.
Serbia having the legal deeds to anything in Kosovo is valid in Serbian courts only and pretty much useless paper anywhere else. They could sell the land but you would only find other Serbs foolish enough to buy them.
what do you mean may? you wrote yesterday that you had seen a vision of a dead person who went on to ask for repentance. now, you tell you draw facts from that vision? i don't know dude, you have me worried for you mental state, its not good to hallucinate. seek help, before you became a danger to yourself and more importantly, others
Ah so now the numbers are skewed because of ethnic cleansing and intimidating anyone deemed unenthusiastic towards independence.
Because that never happened in Kosovo...
(Balkan Anthropologist, 30 May 2014 17:06)
It did happen in Kosovo, this is why there are many Kosovo Albanians (and their decendents) outside of Kosovo. There are 300,000 in Germany, 200,000 in Switzerland, 100,000 in Macedonia, 50,000 in Sweden ect.
Albanians have always been the majority in Kosovo. Even Serbia's own sources show that when they colonised Kosovo in 1913 that over 75% of Kosovo's population were Albanian.
This is why in 1920, there was an official governemnt process which tried to change the demographics of Kosovo by importing 65,000 Serbs to Kosovo. From 1918 to 1921 there was a mass scale expulsion of Albanians with the Albanian population reducing to 439,500 from around 1 million. Yugoslavia tried to transfer a further 200,000 Albanians to Turkey but WW2 got in the way. Thankfully Tito put an end to this sick government programme when he came to power.
Now Belgrade has the deeds to these lands legally hence why USA are still there, but on the other hand Serbia has the right to sell these deeds to someone else pretty much like any land transaction.
(NjegosUK, 29 May 2014 02:26)
that's great... I've been asking to see those deeds for some time. Any place where we can see them? Btw, how did Serbia get those deeds ? My apologies in advance if I'm assuming incorrectly that Kosovo's was not Serbian land since Earth's creation in the year 4.500.000.000 BC!
Jahjaga was totally superior to Nikolic.
9 out of 15 members spoke in Kosovas favor. Her speech conveyed in English was of significance and the fact that she is the only woman who is President in the Balkans.
Nikolic's statement was primarily for local consumption. Harsh speech ending up with a "thank you for you help with the poplava'. Lol.
Oh, and the rush to demand a follow-up right after Kosovo delegation asked for it it was hilarious.
Not to mention Jahjagas superiorty right after the meeting ended when she approached him unexpectedly to shake hands.....priceless!!
...and you're wrong as well. its not Albania, its actually Ukraine, then Russia, then Belarus. if you're going to be smart ass, you should at least get your facts right
I never said that and you're dodging your own argument. The people of Kosovo wanted independence as much as the people of Abkhazia and other places you seem to be unable or unwilling to extend your logic towards.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 29 May 2014 23:27)
Over 50% of Abkazia's population were forcibly kicked out in the early 1990's and a further 30,000 were killed/ slaughtered/ butchered. This radically changed the ethnic make-up of Abkhazia to make the previously minority Abkhaz the majority.
Now you're just getting desperate. I like how you consider yourself a normal European, its almost as if you're over compensating for something. as for quoting the Quran at me, not sure what that has to do with anything, if that's your way of telling me you're well versed in literature, then good for you.
as for as our independence goes, let us put it this way, we did declare one in 1992, but there were no NATO soldiers to fall back on. thankfully you, by serving in KFOR, guaranteed that the one in 2008 would stick. for that, we owe you our eternal gratitude. p.s. how often do you have those visions?
@exKfor
oh please, you do not need to remind me of your Christian fundamentalism, I've read that before.
thing is though, you can say you do not need to reassure yourself about being European, but the very fact that you subconsciously seem to need to write it, suggests a certain insecurity about it. as for this: "... never were, never will! ", not one person is asking or is going to ask for your blessing on it, so deal with it how you like. thus far your way of dealing with it, is by having hallucinations.
as for what Cook & Robertson said, sunshine, I have read your opinions before. you told me that Albanians had filled grave sites with animal remains, so as to fool forensic experts. to exchange ideas with people who genuinely believe that, is a futile exercise. so there's nothing left to do, other than to thanks you once more for the service that you gave to KFOR, for having kept Serbia's army out, but at the same time, for being worried about these apparitions you're having. its what happens when one is religious, your brain rots and you get visions
"Yeah, you're right. The people of Kosovo didn't even want to become independent, it's all just lies and propaganda from the evil BBC."
(Ian, UK, 29 May 2014 19:30)
He probably only meant: Without the USA, Kosovo would be as 'independent' as South Ossetia, Abchazia and Northern Cyprus.
The ICTY ruled that an UDI is allowed for any group of people, but it has no legal consequences at all, only recognitions by other states makes a state.
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