Russia and China "close to reaching gas deal"

If one calculates the already contracted gas (including the liquid one from Sakhalin) for China , both Koreas , Japan , Philippines and others then the exporting volume will be quite close to what Russia sells to Europe. I guess it’s a direct response of Mr. Putin to the western pressing and blackmailing over most issues. When the other side knows all your cards any bluffing makes no sense. But the west is a prisoner of it’s own imagination so it fails to take the changed status quo as it is.

They realize how damned stupid they are only when it’s a bit late. See what will happen in the end of this week after 43 big contracts are signed between the two fast growing monsters with horrifying economic, political and military potential. Before this weekend EU will start to make utmost peaceful statements over everything including Ukraine and the sanctions. Such is their cynic , coward and merciless nature. By that time Putin will have his hands free to reveal his real intentions over Ukraine over transit over South Stream ect.

Don't waste so much time commenting something upon which you haven't the slightest influence.

both Russia and Serbia are not worth one minute attention to China and Western Block. They're 1,5 billion people for the one and nearly one billion for the latter. Serbia represents a small suburb of Beijing and Russia, with 100 million people, is also no match.

Do you really think that Russia and Gazprom only wait to put the EU on her knees (as you wish so much). NO, sorry, they also need money and may I underline that, unfortunately, mother Russia has become a ONE-Industry-country, they now even import Vodka...they produce nothing else.

For now, not a single part of the world is able to purchase the gas and oil quantities dedicated to the EU by Russia. And even if China soon becomes an alternative, it will be the case in 10-15 years when thousands-km-long pipelines are completed. And be sure, China will negotiate prices around the half of those in EU and profits for Gazprom will be quite low...

And as to Serbia, it's sad but I think they have other problems to deal with for the moment and for the years to come...

(Questioner, 19 May 2014 18:00)

It’s not what they signed, but what the bill comes to every month. As Serbia has now openly sided with Russia, Moscow was the first to send in help during these floods while the EU are still scratching their arses and as usual talking about assistance and giving monies out they really don’t have.
While Serbia stands with Moscow Russia will make sure that Serbia gets very cheap gas and that I can guarantee you that. On the issue of looking after their allies, what has the EU of Us done for their Albanians in Kosovo? Nothing.
By the way trying to compare Serbia with China makes no sense as China is a giant with over 350 million people now classified as middle class and Serbia is only 8 million people.

"The agreement envisages an annual supply of about 70 billion cubic meters of Russian gas to China over the period of the next 30 years."

I would like to know what conditions this contract has. I'm alomost sure they will be 'slightly' different to the 'preferred conditions' for Serbia, where Gazprom generously granted a gas prince higher than on the European spot market, in return for giving NIS (including Serbian domestic gas resources worth some billion $) to Gazprom for some peanuts.

(just a note, 19 May 2014 20:57)

This deal with China is nothing new as negotiations over price have been going for a long. Once China is on board then a pipelines will be built that goes to both Koreas, Japan, Phillipines and India and so on.
This is a news headline to tell the EU citizens they can take a flying leap and any sanctions their government’s try and put on will have no effect on Moscow as the biggest and fastest growing economies are ALL in Asia. On the issue of the EU cutting their dependence on Russian energy, that’s BS of the supreme order as all plans revolve around the Caspian Sea and guess who controls all of that region and not its not Washington or Brussels.
On the issue of the US selling gas to the EU, after shipping it would be more expensive than what Russia charges otherwise Brussels would be buying this stuff right now. Also the US cannot supply the volumes needed by shipping and laying a pipeline in some of the deepest waters in the world would send any existing price through the roof.
The best part of South stream pipeline is that the largest shareholders are EU corporations – what a brilliant move on Moscow’s part. Now what are the chances of Brussels not buying gas from Russia? ZERO. If anyone tried the EU corporations would change the governments in Europe – check mate!!!

Hans

Your post is the only sensible one so far.

The rest just read like propaganda.

Bob

(RK, 19 May 2014 14:05)
This reinforces two longtime quotes over the years. "One is born every minute" and "The power of the press"
After talks of the EU cutting their dependence on Russian oil, a news article announcing deals with China to completely cover that loss, are suddenly released and the simple minded are dancing and celebrating in the streets?
But your analysis just does not match up. With Russia transferring its interest to the East, going to reveal the real intentions of south stream??

just a note


The main goal is to get rid of the Ukrainian blackmail that has already cost Russia USD 200 Bln. within 23 years. Second task is to increase the transporting capacities to Europe. 10 years ago Russia’s share in gas balance of EU was about 23-25%. In 2013 it increased up to 31% and today it is 33-34%. All because Qatar , Algeria and other suppliers sell their liquid gas to the Far East markets that offer much higher prices. Also UK , Netherland and Norway demonstrate falling volumes of their gas sources.

Thus Europe has no alternative and everybody knows it for sure. Yet Euro Commission keeps on bluffing. But there’s no way out and Gazprom will put them on their knees very soon. This year gas wars won’t last long. I guess Gazprom will not demonstrate superiority so the things will be settled quite diplomatically as if it was a compromise. All because in the long run only USA and it’s regional puppet regimes (Poland, Ukraine, Romania, Lithuania …) are interested to spoil EU-Russian relations of mutual interests.

Concerning Serbia you don’t have to worry at all. Seems like they will enjoy fast growing Russia’s capacities in any case. I guess there are things that we are not informed yet. At least after the SNS election victory the two sides behave very solid. Their statements and other steps also give signs of closer cooperation.


PS Russian oil makes 27% in the energy balance of EU that makes much more money than what Gazprom enjoys here.

While Serbia stands with Moscow Russia will make sure that Serbia gets very cheap gas and that I can guarantee you that.
By the way trying to compare Serbia with China makes no sense as China is a giant with over 350 million people now classified as middle class and Serbia is only 8 million people.
(sj, 20 May 2014 00:57)
I am glad we have you guarantee on that now the world can sleep better tonight as there should be no confusion.
I see we have the famous what is on paper means nothing, it is what "I" tell you that is the truth. Russia puts one thing on paper but will charge Serbia much less. No one will no it, no record books will show it, it will not be published but you can rely on it because "I" say it.
Answer the big question for me. Why is it in Russia's interest to put a bogus price on the bill???
And it is true it is ridiculous to compare Serbia to China, in any way, shape or form. And "middle class" is a relative term. Middle class in Serbia is different from middle class in Switzerland, or middle class in Haiti, just like middle class in China is different from middle class in Japan, etc.

(pss, 20 May 2014 16:40)
“Why is it in Russia's interest to put a bogus price on the bill”
It’s how it works, even with the US. You play ball and they look after you. You sign a contract at the higher price just in case you get freedom and democratic lovers in power, like Ukraine, and then you jack up the price – it’s how you have leverage over countries.
Serbia’s middle class is non-existent for now so let’s leave them out. China’s middle class is actually like the middle class in Switzerland etc. Ask any Australian that contributes on this site why is real estate so expensive in Sydney or Melbourne??? The Chinese are out in droves buying it up. Houses in a middle class areas that were $600 000 about six years ago today the same place is $1.3 million and its not just Australia. Sadly very few buy in the US simply because of that squawking of “we will freeze your funds and assets. We are entertaining a few relatives from Boston and they say that even in New York you can see the effects of excessive borrowing by the US. There is extreme poverty in places that had none before.

(sj, 21 May 2014 03:30)
I agree with the wisdom of setting a high price when dealing with unstable govts such as in Serbia so you have a good noose around their necks to tug if they stray out of line.
But considering the history of Russia/Serbia economic relations specifically the Gazprom deal of 51% ownership in exchange for a far below market value payment that insured Russian and not Serbian control over the south stream pipeline, I would say your guarantee is about as valuable as the life time guarantee provided by many fly by night companies already in bankruptcy filings.
As far as Chinas middle class, even if your numbers are right(?) that still leaves around 1 billion people who make up the pennies a day workforce.
But like every country in the world the wealth in China is controlled by a very small minority of individuals who by the way have a reason to invest the bulk of their wealth outside of China govt reach. Just like the fortunes of Russian oligarchs are not sitting in Russian banks.
I think they refer to this as an "exit strategy" for obvious reasons.

(pss, 21 May 2014 15:04)

In the US 10% own 90% of all stocks on the stock exchange so what’s that comment about the wealth in China is controlled by a very small minority? It’s mainly the same everywhere.
The Chinese middle class does number about 350 million. The Australia tourism is expecting a boom over the next couple of years (not sure of true figure at the moment) they also buy up homes and prime real estate – our latest real estate boom is due to the Chinese.

I said:
"But like every country in the world the wealth in China is controlled by a very small minority of individuals"
and sj responds:

"In the US 10% own 90% of all stocks on the stock exchange so what’s that comment about the wealth in China is controlled by a very small minority? It’s mainly the same everywhere"
The only response I can say is Thanks, wish I would have thought of that.

(Questioner, 19 May 2014 18:00)

It’s not what they signed, but what the bill comes to every month. As Serbia has now openly sided with Russia, Moscow was the first to send in help during these floods while the EU are still scratching their arses and as usual talking about assistance and giving monies out they really don’t have.
While Serbia stands with Moscow Russia will make sure that Serbia gets very cheap gas and that I can guarantee you that. On the issue of looking after their allies, what has the EU of Us done for their Albanians in Kosovo? Nothing.
By the way trying to compare Serbia with China makes no sense as China is a giant with over 350 million people now classified as middle class and Serbia is only 8 million people.

If one calculates the already contracted gas (including the liquid one from Sakhalin) for China , both Koreas , Japan , Philippines and others then the exporting volume will be quite close to what Russia sells to Europe. I guess it’s a direct response of Mr. Putin to the western pressing and blackmailing over most issues. When the other side knows all your cards any bluffing makes no sense. But the west is a prisoner of it’s own imagination so it fails to take the changed status quo as it is.

They realize how damned stupid they are only when it’s a bit late. See what will happen in the end of this week after 43 big contracts are signed between the two fast growing monsters with horrifying economic, political and military potential. Before this weekend EU will start to make utmost peaceful statements over everything including Ukraine and the sanctions. Such is their cynic , coward and merciless nature. By that time Putin will have his hands free to reveal his real intentions over Ukraine over transit over South Stream ect.

(just a note, 19 May 2014 20:57)

This deal with China is nothing new as negotiations over price have been going for a long. Once China is on board then a pipelines will be built that goes to both Koreas, Japan, Phillipines and India and so on.
This is a news headline to tell the EU citizens they can take a flying leap and any sanctions their government’s try and put on will have no effect on Moscow as the biggest and fastest growing economies are ALL in Asia. On the issue of the EU cutting their dependence on Russian energy, that’s BS of the supreme order as all plans revolve around the Caspian Sea and guess who controls all of that region and not its not Washington or Brussels.
On the issue of the US selling gas to the EU, after shipping it would be more expensive than what Russia charges otherwise Brussels would be buying this stuff right now. Also the US cannot supply the volumes needed by shipping and laying a pipeline in some of the deepest waters in the world would send any existing price through the roof.
The best part of South stream pipeline is that the largest shareholders are EU corporations – what a brilliant move on Moscow’s part. Now what are the chances of Brussels not buying gas from Russia? ZERO. If anyone tried the EU corporations would change the governments in Europe – check mate!!!

Don't waste so much time commenting something upon which you haven't the slightest influence.

both Russia and Serbia are not worth one minute attention to China and Western Block. They're 1,5 billion people for the one and nearly one billion for the latter. Serbia represents a small suburb of Beijing and Russia, with 100 million people, is also no match.

Do you really think that Russia and Gazprom only wait to put the EU on her knees (as you wish so much). NO, sorry, they also need money and may I underline that, unfortunately, mother Russia has become a ONE-Industry-country, they now even import Vodka...they produce nothing else.

For now, not a single part of the world is able to purchase the gas and oil quantities dedicated to the EU by Russia. And even if China soon becomes an alternative, it will be the case in 10-15 years when thousands-km-long pipelines are completed. And be sure, China will negotiate prices around the half of those in EU and profits for Gazprom will be quite low...

And as to Serbia, it's sad but I think they have other problems to deal with for the moment and for the years to come...

While Serbia stands with Moscow Russia will make sure that Serbia gets very cheap gas and that I can guarantee you that.
By the way trying to compare Serbia with China makes no sense as China is a giant with over 350 million people now classified as middle class and Serbia is only 8 million people.
(sj, 20 May 2014 00:57)
I am glad we have you guarantee on that now the world can sleep better tonight as there should be no confusion.
I see we have the famous what is on paper means nothing, it is what "I" tell you that is the truth. Russia puts one thing on paper but will charge Serbia much less. No one will no it, no record books will show it, it will not be published but you can rely on it because "I" say it.
Answer the big question for me. Why is it in Russia's interest to put a bogus price on the bill???
And it is true it is ridiculous to compare Serbia to China, in any way, shape or form. And "middle class" is a relative term. Middle class in Serbia is different from middle class in Switzerland, or middle class in Haiti, just like middle class in China is different from middle class in Japan, etc.

(RK, 19 May 2014 14:05)
This reinforces two longtime quotes over the years. "One is born every minute" and "The power of the press"
After talks of the EU cutting their dependence on Russian oil, a news article announcing deals with China to completely cover that loss, are suddenly released and the simple minded are dancing and celebrating in the streets?
But your analysis just does not match up. With Russia transferring its interest to the East, going to reveal the real intentions of south stream??

just a note


The main goal is to get rid of the Ukrainian blackmail that has already cost Russia USD 200 Bln. within 23 years. Second task is to increase the transporting capacities to Europe. 10 years ago Russia’s share in gas balance of EU was about 23-25%. In 2013 it increased up to 31% and today it is 33-34%. All because Qatar , Algeria and other suppliers sell their liquid gas to the Far East markets that offer much higher prices. Also UK , Netherland and Norway demonstrate falling volumes of their gas sources.

Thus Europe has no alternative and everybody knows it for sure. Yet Euro Commission keeps on bluffing. But there’s no way out and Gazprom will put them on their knees very soon. This year gas wars won’t last long. I guess Gazprom will not demonstrate superiority so the things will be settled quite diplomatically as if it was a compromise. All because in the long run only USA and it’s regional puppet regimes (Poland, Ukraine, Romania, Lithuania …) are interested to spoil EU-Russian relations of mutual interests.

Concerning Serbia you don’t have to worry at all. Seems like they will enjoy fast growing Russia’s capacities in any case. I guess there are things that we are not informed yet. At least after the SNS election victory the two sides behave very solid. Their statements and other steps also give signs of closer cooperation.


PS Russian oil makes 27% in the energy balance of EU that makes much more money than what Gazprom enjoys here.

"The agreement envisages an annual supply of about 70 billion cubic meters of Russian gas to China over the period of the next 30 years."

I would like to know what conditions this contract has. I'm alomost sure they will be 'slightly' different to the 'preferred conditions' for Serbia, where Gazprom generously granted a gas prince higher than on the European spot market, in return for giving NIS (including Serbian domestic gas resources worth some billion $) to Gazprom for some peanuts.

Hans

Your post is the only sensible one so far.

The rest just read like propaganda.

Bob

(pss, 20 May 2014 16:40)
“Why is it in Russia's interest to put a bogus price on the bill”
It’s how it works, even with the US. You play ball and they look after you. You sign a contract at the higher price just in case you get freedom and democratic lovers in power, like Ukraine, and then you jack up the price – it’s how you have leverage over countries.
Serbia’s middle class is non-existent for now so let’s leave them out. China’s middle class is actually like the middle class in Switzerland etc. Ask any Australian that contributes on this site why is real estate so expensive in Sydney or Melbourne??? The Chinese are out in droves buying it up. Houses in a middle class areas that were $600 000 about six years ago today the same place is $1.3 million and its not just Australia. Sadly very few buy in the US simply because of that squawking of “we will freeze your funds and assets. We are entertaining a few relatives from Boston and they say that even in New York you can see the effects of excessive borrowing by the US. There is extreme poverty in places that had none before.

(sj, 21 May 2014 03:30)
I agree with the wisdom of setting a high price when dealing with unstable govts such as in Serbia so you have a good noose around their necks to tug if they stray out of line.
But considering the history of Russia/Serbia economic relations specifically the Gazprom deal of 51% ownership in exchange for a far below market value payment that insured Russian and not Serbian control over the south stream pipeline, I would say your guarantee is about as valuable as the life time guarantee provided by many fly by night companies already in bankruptcy filings.
As far as Chinas middle class, even if your numbers are right(?) that still leaves around 1 billion people who make up the pennies a day workforce.
But like every country in the world the wealth in China is controlled by a very small minority of individuals who by the way have a reason to invest the bulk of their wealth outside of China govt reach. Just like the fortunes of Russian oligarchs are not sitting in Russian banks.
I think they refer to this as an "exit strategy" for obvious reasons.

(pss, 21 May 2014 15:04)

In the US 10% own 90% of all stocks on the stock exchange so what’s that comment about the wealth in China is controlled by a very small minority? It’s mainly the same everywhere.
The Chinese middle class does number about 350 million. The Australia tourism is expecting a boom over the next couple of years (not sure of true figure at the moment) they also buy up homes and prime real estate – our latest real estate boom is due to the Chinese.

I said:
"But like every country in the world the wealth in China is controlled by a very small minority of individuals"
and sj responds:

"In the US 10% own 90% of all stocks on the stock exchange so what’s that comment about the wealth in China is controlled by a very small minority? It’s mainly the same everywhere"
The only response I can say is Thanks, wish I would have thought of that.