The truth is, as everyone knows, that Serbia through its control of the Yugoslav army, its military superiority and Russian help, attempted to rid Kosova, Croatia and Bosnia of their native majority populations by all means necessary.
(adrian kola, 28 March 2014 16:58)
Thats YOUR truth ,the real truth is that serbs in Bosnia, Croatia and in Kosovo fought for their lives and their homes so that another Jasenovac wouldnt be repeated upon them. By the way it doesnt matter that a part of a country has a certain majority, that does not give that majority the rights to abuse and terrorize people with another ethnicity that you albanians have been doing against serbs in Kosovo forever. Remember that Kosovo is and was a part of Serbia so the only thing we did was to defend our own country against terrorists.
The Rwandan Genocide was definitely a genocide, because the Hutus intended to exterminate the Tutsis down to the last man, woman and child. Casualties are estimated as up to 1,000,000 dead.
In Kosovo, the concept was different. Several thousand were killed during an ethnic cleansing process, where ethnic Albanians were driven out of their homes outside of the borders into Albania and Macedonia.
That is the key difference why one is genocide and the other ethnic cleansing.
(Peter Sudyka, 28 March 2014 13:48)
At first I fully agreed with your post that it was more appropriate to call the Milosevic scourge an ethnic cleansing campaign as his goal was pure and simple to cleanse Kosovo of Albanians through whatever means necessary, first it was political and by state changes, removing any power, then it was by taking away their culture, through cutting the Albanian culture and language out of the schools, cutting the economics by replacing all Albanian state workers with Serbs, then with police and military crackdowns and brutality. When that did not cause them to leave, the violence escalated and included murders and rapes, tortures and forced expulsions. Sounds like "merely a cleansing campaign" Sounds a little more pleasing to the ear, a lost less offensive and evil doesn't it? Then I found this definition of genocide.
"a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be the disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups"
So do you call it Ethnic Cleansing or Genocide, either should not leave a pleasant taste in your mouth.
The Rwandan Genocide was without a doubt genocide, because the Hutus intended to exterminate the Tutsis down to every single last man, woman and child and were not far off, were it not for government forces taking control of the country.
There are other examples in history, but Serbian actions in the Balkans were not genocide. The closest of all to this definition from those wars was perhaps with the Bosnians, but even here it was limited to two big massacres (the rest of anti-Bosnian actions were ethnic cleansing also as RS was simply cleansed of all non-Serbs and nothing similar happened in the Federation. As for the rest, it is only speculation as to whether unchecked, the Serbs would have inflicted a genocide against any other Balkan people, but what happened to the Albanians in Kosovo was not genocide, because the Serbs 1) did not kill all Albanians in Kosovo, rather drove most of them out and 2) did not act against Albanians in other former Yugoslav republics, let alone Albania.
The reason why they are not given their due? Because the first victim of war is the truth and it is later written by the victors.
(Peter Sudyka, 28 March 2014 15:41)
So, you mean it is written by Serbia in this case, since, according to the most patriotic of Serbs, that was a great victory for Serbia.
"What to call the abduction of about 300 Serbs and other non-Albanians who, according to the report by (former Council of Europe rapporteur) Dick Marty, were transported to Albania, where organs were removed from their bodies and later sold across Europe?”
Maybe he should read Marty's report before quoting from it, however, that seems to be a common thread.
He said there was "uncollaborated" allegations that needed further investigation. Never in his report did he say that this DID happen, but he did say that IF it happened the numbers would most likely be in the 10's and not 100's as rumored.
He took witness testimony from many sources but readily that none of this testimony had been tested for veracity or accuracy. That was not his job, his job was to see if there was reason to have an investigation.
"The reason why they are not given their due? Because the first victim of war is the truth and it is later written by the victors."
(Peter Sudyka, 28 March 2014 15:41)
And to add, that the victims amongst the aggressor is seen with different eyes. The ethnic cleansing of Serbs in Krajina and Kosovo was a result of the attempted ethnic cleansing of Croats (some 100.000 were driven out of Krajina) and Albanians in Kosovo. It only fired back.
Why should anybody talk about the 'ethnic cleansing' of Germans who were living in many regions after WW2, in territories of nowadays Czech Republic, Poland, Russia, and YU. Well, some Czech politician said some year ago that expelling the whole German population nowadays would be considered a war crime, and he was booed for this (true) statement
There is nothing new here, except perhaps that thaci is finally being open and direct about what was done to the Albanians of Kosova. We (and others) have been writing about this for years. Thaci is reminding the world about what happened - the belgrade regime, per usual is denying it all and acting the victims. same ole same old.
here are some links: http://www.albaniapress.com/lajme/16406/The-Book-Ends-of-Genocide-.html
that's just 3 - actually 4. so i'm glad thaci has finally piped up, but it is really old news.
I will not engage in this ridiculous discussion of genocide v "ethnic cleansing." Serbia had an intent of genocide in Croatia, Bosnia, and Kosova. It did everything it could to carry it out. if millions more weren't butchered, it was not through lack of trying.
Serbian nationalists have long spoken about "genocide" against them. While it could at least be argued during ww2, it has been used as a cheap cover-up ever since.
as for your dick-marty report, go eat it. (rhymes)
Peterl Suduyka, I agree with you, this was not genocide. It was an attempted genocide hence ethnic cleansing. Thaci did not characterize this right.
Having said this, the focus is all wrong. What in the world were these dead bodies doing inside of Serbia. Who brought them there? Who ordered their death? Who ordered for these bodies to be removed from the crime scene and be brought to Serbia? What was the true intention behind that reason? Why did they bring these bodies of Albanians inside Serbia? Why were the buried and kept there for so long? Why were not they returned as soon as the war was over? What was stopping their return?
This is what the focus is should be on. A Serbian official ordered a mass murder. Not only was a crime committed but the bodies were removed and brought to Serbia as an attempt to hide evidence. In a current case they even built multi-story building on top of a burial site. Not only that but Serbia is refusing to dig the bodies out. This should be the focus of our discussions.
Genocide against Kosovo Albanians? What a joke. If "genocide" actually occurred in the 2 years of fighting there would be a lot more dead Albanians and not just in Kosovo but all over FRY. Nothing but false propaganda and excuses for a hostile land-grab.
Serbia proper would have felt the KLA's wrath descend upon it!, Serbia should be thanking NATO for their intervention!!!
(Rocky, 28 March 2014 14:29)
Considering actual facts showed Albanians running for their lives in all directions away from Kosovo and Serbia Proper before and after NATO intervention, your boast is just another one of your YouTube wet dreams. If the KLA were as strong as you say it was, you wouldn't be crying about all the lives lost and claiming Serbs committed genocide.
Don't flex nuts you know you don't have, never had, and never will get.
By your definition nothing really is a genocide! Not even the Holocaust or the war in Rwanda!
You read some comments here from Serbs who have spent most of their natural lives outside the Balkans and live in cuckoo lands and have no basic remorse for any lost human lives whether they’re Albanian, Croatian or Muslim. It’s just sickening. What’s worse is that they actually condone what Arkan’s tigers and other chetnik and hooligan groups did in the Balkans in the 90s.
You also hear these pathetic voices and claims that only Serbia is being punished for these crimes! Well the truth is Serbia and its people did commit most crimes in the Balkans! Why? Crimes and massacres like Srebrenica, Krusha e Madhe, Prekaz, Bacin, Lovas, Vukovar etc etc etc were not committed by non-Serbs!!
Those chetniks who were punished for these crimes deserved what they got, in fact, in lesser-democratic times they would’ve gotten more than just life sentences!
The truth is, as everyone knows, that Serbia through its control of the Yugoslav army, its military superiority and Russian help, attempted to rid Kosova, Croatia and Bosnia of their native majority populations by all means necessary.
I was referring specifically to adrian kola's post with regards to the ethnic cleansing of Albanians, which is why I didn't mention Serbs as victims of ethnic cleansing in my post, but indeed, Serbs were also the victims of it at the hands of Croatians and Albanians in the Croatian war of independence and the Kosovo war respectively.
The reason why they are not given their due? Because the first victim of war is the truth and it is later written by the victors.
So why take the body's and put them all the way in Belgrade, it was systematic killing by Serbian Paramilitary. You can twist it how you like it where is Vulin to protest for Albanins being killed?
And no one is talking about raped victims in Kosovo this is something shows true brutality of last war. May the sins of their fathers be washed in their daughters tears.
Peter, what about the ethnic cleansing against Serbs? It happened in 2004, organised with NATO. It happened after NATO bombing in 1999 and it has been a continuous occurrence over decades. However, western propaganda likes to spin things the other way. Hundreds of thousands of Serbs were cleansed from Croatia, KiM and BiH but hardly a mention of this. Why is that?
"What to call the abduction of about 300 Serbs and other non-Albanians who, according to the report by (former Council of Europe rapporteur) Dick Marty, were transported to Albania, where organs were removed from their bodies and later sold across Europe?”
What hypocrisy, the nerve of these Serbs to make such claims! Where is the evidence that organs were harvested from these invisible Serb victims??? Country's with the know how, the right equipment, with the right temperatures have a hard time keeping organs viable for their use in other humans! And some want to claim that some peasant liberation fighter, were capable of this? Bulls..., is what I say!
Serbs just can't get over the fact they were beaten on the battlefield, by a mostly peasant army that had enough of the apartheid system that Serbia was brutally enforcing upon the Albanian majority of Kosova! Out of nothing the KLA was born, supposed professional Serb Chetnik soldiers were being picked off at every corner of Kosova, by untrained freedom fighters, and these freedom fighters only grew by the day! Had it not been for NATO's intervention, Serbia proper would have felt the KLA's wrath descend upon it!, Serbia should be thanking NATO for their intervention!!!
Serbia's crimes will never be forgotten by Balkan nations. It would be to the benefit of Serbia to genuinely apologize for these crimes so that such act can also be remembered. At this point, Serbia's unremorseful stance simply adds to its image of an untrustworthy and unstable state in the heart of the Balkans.
Genocide refers to "the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group". The Serbs did not plan to systematically and deliberately exterminate Albanians. This is why the word was irresponsibly used by Hashim Thaci.
He should have used the term "ethnic cleansing" as this is precisely what happened. Serbia intended to drive out the Albanians in Kosovo, not to deliberately exterminate Albanians in a genocidal fashion.
There were thousands of Albanians killed in the process indeed, but if Serbia's intention was genocide, it would have been close to the two million and not a few thousand (also given the amount of refugees, which either escaped or in most cases, were driven out and not killed).
I understand the emotions around it, though. Something similar happened to the Poles living in Volyhnia and Galicia during WWII. The UPA/OUN and peasant supporters intended to drive out all Poles living in these regions, not exterminate all Poles up to and including Poland itself, which is why it was ethnic cleansing and not genocide, despite the fact that we had more victims than you did.
Thacis statement is the last thing I would worry about. The west already knows Serbia to be the aggressor towards its neighbors, and that's because Serbia thought it could get away with 3 genocides that they committed in Kosova Bosnia and Croatia. We will always spread the word about what Serbia has done. We will continue to tell the truth about serbias criminal background and behavior.
They are getting desperate and making things up. Thaci is a liar, murderer, terrorist and organ trafficker while Obama lied last night by claiming that "Kosovahhh"* gained independence through a referendum co-ordinated with the UN. This is completely untrue and their propaganda has come to the level of lies, lies and more lies.
My friend, they cannot win with the truth so they are only left with deceit. We hear it here every day from our local Albanians and their supporters, like NATO intervened to prevent a humanitarian catastrophy where the truth is they created one. That Serbs committed genocide in KiM where we are the victims of genocide as hundreds of thousands of Serbs have been ethnically cleansed and displaced over decades, and crimes against non-Albanians being covered up and hidden.
It's disgusting and outrageous that Serbia continues to deny that genocide took place in Kosova during the war!
If the deliberate killing, raping and forceful removal of civilians, which was purely motivated by ethnic hatred and stereotype, does not amount to genocide then frankly I don't know what else does!
It's disgusting and outrageous that Serbia continues to deny that genocide took place in Kosova during the war!
If the deliberate killing, raping and forceful removal of civilians, which was purely motivated by ethnic hatred and stereotype, does not amount to genocide then frankly I don't know what else does!
Peter, what about the ethnic cleansing against Serbs? It happened in 2004, organised with NATO. It happened after NATO bombing in 1999 and it has been a continuous occurrence over decades. However, western propaganda likes to spin things the other way. Hundreds of thousands of Serbs were cleansed from Croatia, KiM and BiH but hardly a mention of this. Why is that?
Thacis statement is the last thing I would worry about. The west already knows Serbia to be the aggressor towards its neighbors, and that's because Serbia thought it could get away with 3 genocides that they committed in Kosova Bosnia and Croatia. We will always spread the word about what Serbia has done. We will continue to tell the truth about serbias criminal background and behavior.
By your definition nothing really is a genocide! Not even the Holocaust or the war in Rwanda!
You read some comments here from Serbs who have spent most of their natural lives outside the Balkans and live in cuckoo lands and have no basic remorse for any lost human lives whether they’re Albanian, Croatian or Muslim. It’s just sickening. What’s worse is that they actually condone what Arkan’s tigers and other chetnik and hooligan groups did in the Balkans in the 90s.
You also hear these pathetic voices and claims that only Serbia is being punished for these crimes! Well the truth is Serbia and its people did commit most crimes in the Balkans! Why? Crimes and massacres like Srebrenica, Krusha e Madhe, Prekaz, Bacin, Lovas, Vukovar etc etc etc were not committed by non-Serbs!!
Those chetniks who were punished for these crimes deserved what they got, in fact, in lesser-democratic times they would’ve gotten more than just life sentences!
The truth is, as everyone knows, that Serbia through its control of the Yugoslav army, its military superiority and Russian help, attempted to rid Kosova, Croatia and Bosnia of their native majority populations by all means necessary.
They are getting desperate and making things up. Thaci is a liar, murderer, terrorist and organ trafficker while Obama lied last night by claiming that "Kosovahhh"* gained independence through a referendum co-ordinated with the UN. This is completely untrue and their propaganda has come to the level of lies, lies and more lies.
My friend, they cannot win with the truth so they are only left with deceit. We hear it here every day from our local Albanians and their supporters, like NATO intervened to prevent a humanitarian catastrophy where the truth is they created one. That Serbs committed genocide in KiM where we are the victims of genocide as hundreds of thousands of Serbs have been ethnically cleansed and displaced over decades, and crimes against non-Albanians being covered up and hidden.
Genocide against Kosovo Albanians? What a joke. If "genocide" actually occurred in the 2 years of fighting there would be a lot more dead Albanians and not just in Kosovo but all over FRY. Nothing but false propaganda and excuses for a hostile land-grab.
Serbia's crimes will never be forgotten by Balkan nations. It would be to the benefit of Serbia to genuinely apologize for these crimes so that such act can also be remembered. At this point, Serbia's unremorseful stance simply adds to its image of an untrustworthy and unstable state in the heart of the Balkans.
"What to call the abduction of about 300 Serbs and other non-Albanians who, according to the report by (former Council of Europe rapporteur) Dick Marty, were transported to Albania, where organs were removed from their bodies and later sold across Europe?”
What hypocrisy, the nerve of these Serbs to make such claims! Where is the evidence that organs were harvested from these invisible Serb victims??? Country's with the know how, the right equipment, with the right temperatures have a hard time keeping organs viable for their use in other humans! And some want to claim that some peasant liberation fighter, were capable of this? Bulls..., is what I say!
Serbs just can't get over the fact they were beaten on the battlefield, by a mostly peasant army that had enough of the apartheid system that Serbia was brutally enforcing upon the Albanian majority of Kosova! Out of nothing the KLA was born, supposed professional Serb Chetnik soldiers were being picked off at every corner of Kosova, by untrained freedom fighters, and these freedom fighters only grew by the day! Had it not been for NATO's intervention, Serbia proper would have felt the KLA's wrath descend upon it!, Serbia should be thanking NATO for their intervention!!!
So why take the body's and put them all the way in Belgrade, it was systematic killing by Serbian Paramilitary. You can twist it how you like it where is Vulin to protest for Albanins being killed?
And no one is talking about raped victims in Kosovo this is something shows true brutality of last war. May the sins of their fathers be washed in their daughters tears.
Genocide refers to "the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group". The Serbs did not plan to systematically and deliberately exterminate Albanians. This is why the word was irresponsibly used by Hashim Thaci.
He should have used the term "ethnic cleansing" as this is precisely what happened. Serbia intended to drive out the Albanians in Kosovo, not to deliberately exterminate Albanians in a genocidal fashion.
There were thousands of Albanians killed in the process indeed, but if Serbia's intention was genocide, it would have been close to the two million and not a few thousand (also given the amount of refugees, which either escaped or in most cases, were driven out and not killed).
I understand the emotions around it, though. Something similar happened to the Poles living in Volyhnia and Galicia during WWII. The UPA/OUN and peasant supporters intended to drive out all Poles living in these regions, not exterminate all Poles up to and including Poland itself, which is why it was ethnic cleansing and not genocide, despite the fact that we had more victims than you did.
Serbia proper would have felt the KLA's wrath descend upon it!, Serbia should be thanking NATO for their intervention!!!
(Rocky, 28 March 2014 14:29)
Considering actual facts showed Albanians running for their lives in all directions away from Kosovo and Serbia Proper before and after NATO intervention, your boast is just another one of your YouTube wet dreams. If the KLA were as strong as you say it was, you wouldn't be crying about all the lives lost and claiming Serbs committed genocide.
Don't flex nuts you know you don't have, never had, and never will get.
I was referring specifically to adrian kola's post with regards to the ethnic cleansing of Albanians, which is why I didn't mention Serbs as victims of ethnic cleansing in my post, but indeed, Serbs were also the victims of it at the hands of Croatians and Albanians in the Croatian war of independence and the Kosovo war respectively.
The reason why they are not given their due? Because the first victim of war is the truth and it is later written by the victors.
Peterl Suduyka, I agree with you, this was not genocide. It was an attempted genocide hence ethnic cleansing. Thaci did not characterize this right.
Having said this, the focus is all wrong. What in the world were these dead bodies doing inside of Serbia. Who brought them there? Who ordered their death? Who ordered for these bodies to be removed from the crime scene and be brought to Serbia? What was the true intention behind that reason? Why did they bring these bodies of Albanians inside Serbia? Why were the buried and kept there for so long? Why were not they returned as soon as the war was over? What was stopping their return?
This is what the focus is should be on. A Serbian official ordered a mass murder. Not only was a crime committed but the bodies were removed and brought to Serbia as an attempt to hide evidence. In a current case they even built multi-story building on top of a burial site. Not only that but Serbia is refusing to dig the bodies out. This should be the focus of our discussions.
There is nothing new here, except perhaps that thaci is finally being open and direct about what was done to the Albanians of Kosova. We (and others) have been writing about this for years. Thaci is reminding the world about what happened - the belgrade regime, per usual is denying it all and acting the victims. same ole same old.
here are some links: http://www.albaniapress.com/lajme/16406/The-Book-Ends-of-Genocide-.html
that's just 3 - actually 4. so i'm glad thaci has finally piped up, but it is really old news.
I will not engage in this ridiculous discussion of genocide v "ethnic cleansing." Serbia had an intent of genocide in Croatia, Bosnia, and Kosova. It did everything it could to carry it out. if millions more weren't butchered, it was not through lack of trying.
Serbian nationalists have long spoken about "genocide" against them. While it could at least be argued during ww2, it has been used as a cheap cover-up ever since.
as for your dick-marty report, go eat it. (rhymes)
"The reason why they are not given their due? Because the first victim of war is the truth and it is later written by the victors."
(Peter Sudyka, 28 March 2014 15:41)
And to add, that the victims amongst the aggressor is seen with different eyes. The ethnic cleansing of Serbs in Krajina and Kosovo was a result of the attempted ethnic cleansing of Croats (some 100.000 were driven out of Krajina) and Albanians in Kosovo. It only fired back.
Why should anybody talk about the 'ethnic cleansing' of Germans who were living in many regions after WW2, in territories of nowadays Czech Republic, Poland, Russia, and YU. Well, some Czech politician said some year ago that expelling the whole German population nowadays would be considered a war crime, and he was booed for this (true) statement
"What to call the abduction of about 300 Serbs and other non-Albanians who, according to the report by (former Council of Europe rapporteur) Dick Marty, were transported to Albania, where organs were removed from their bodies and later sold across Europe?”
Maybe he should read Marty's report before quoting from it, however, that seems to be a common thread.
He said there was "uncollaborated" allegations that needed further investigation. Never in his report did he say that this DID happen, but he did say that IF it happened the numbers would most likely be in the 10's and not 100's as rumored.
He took witness testimony from many sources but readily that none of this testimony had been tested for veracity or accuracy. That was not his job, his job was to see if there was reason to have an investigation.
(Peter Sudyka, 28 March 2014 13:48)
At first I fully agreed with your post that it was more appropriate to call the Milosevic scourge an ethnic cleansing campaign as his goal was pure and simple to cleanse Kosovo of Albanians through whatever means necessary, first it was political and by state changes, removing any power, then it was by taking away their culture, through cutting the Albanian culture and language out of the schools, cutting the economics by replacing all Albanian state workers with Serbs, then with police and military crackdowns and brutality. When that did not cause them to leave, the violence escalated and included murders and rapes, tortures and forced expulsions. Sounds like "merely a cleansing campaign" Sounds a little more pleasing to the ear, a lost less offensive and evil doesn't it? Then I found this definition of genocide.
"a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be the disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups"
So do you call it Ethnic Cleansing or Genocide, either should not leave a pleasant taste in your mouth.
The reason why they are not given their due? Because the first victim of war is the truth and it is later written by the victors.
(Peter Sudyka, 28 March 2014 15:41)
So, you mean it is written by Serbia in this case, since, according to the most patriotic of Serbs, that was a great victory for Serbia.
The Rwandan Genocide was without a doubt genocide, because the Hutus intended to exterminate the Tutsis down to every single last man, woman and child and were not far off, were it not for government forces taking control of the country.
There are other examples in history, but Serbian actions in the Balkans were not genocide. The closest of all to this definition from those wars was perhaps with the Bosnians, but even here it was limited to two big massacres (the rest of anti-Bosnian actions were ethnic cleansing also as RS was simply cleansed of all non-Serbs and nothing similar happened in the Federation. As for the rest, it is only speculation as to whether unchecked, the Serbs would have inflicted a genocide against any other Balkan people, but what happened to the Albanians in Kosovo was not genocide, because the Serbs 1) did not kill all Albanians in Kosovo, rather drove most of them out and 2) did not act against Albanians in other former Yugoslav republics, let alone Albania.
The Rwandan Genocide was definitely a genocide, because the Hutus intended to exterminate the Tutsis down to the last man, woman and child. Casualties are estimated as up to 1,000,000 dead.
In Kosovo, the concept was different. Several thousand were killed during an ethnic cleansing process, where ethnic Albanians were driven out of their homes outside of the borders into Albania and Macedonia.
That is the key difference why one is genocide and the other ethnic cleansing.
The truth is, as everyone knows, that Serbia through its control of the Yugoslav army, its military superiority and Russian help, attempted to rid Kosova, Croatia and Bosnia of their native majority populations by all means necessary.
(adrian kola, 28 March 2014 16:58)
Thats YOUR truth ,the real truth is that serbs in Bosnia, Croatia and in Kosovo fought for their lives and their homes so that another Jasenovac wouldnt be repeated upon them. By the way it doesnt matter that a part of a country has a certain majority, that does not give that majority the rights to abuse and terrorize people with another ethnicity that you albanians have been doing against serbs in Kosovo forever. Remember that Kosovo is and was a part of Serbia so the only thing we did was to defend our own country against terrorists.
It's disgusting and outrageous that Serbia continues to deny that genocide took place in Kosova during the war!
If the deliberate killing, raping and forceful removal of civilians, which was purely motivated by ethnic hatred and stereotype, does not amount to genocide then frankly I don't know what else does!
Thacis statement is the last thing I would worry about. The west already knows Serbia to be the aggressor towards its neighbors, and that's because Serbia thought it could get away with 3 genocides that they committed in Kosova Bosnia and Croatia. We will always spread the word about what Serbia has done. We will continue to tell the truth about serbias criminal background and behavior.
"What to call the abduction of about 300 Serbs and other non-Albanians who, according to the report by (former Council of Europe rapporteur) Dick Marty, were transported to Albania, where organs were removed from their bodies and later sold across Europe?”
What hypocrisy, the nerve of these Serbs to make such claims! Where is the evidence that organs were harvested from these invisible Serb victims??? Country's with the know how, the right equipment, with the right temperatures have a hard time keeping organs viable for their use in other humans! And some want to claim that some peasant liberation fighter, were capable of this? Bulls..., is what I say!
Serbs just can't get over the fact they were beaten on the battlefield, by a mostly peasant army that had enough of the apartheid system that Serbia was brutally enforcing upon the Albanian majority of Kosova! Out of nothing the KLA was born, supposed professional Serb Chetnik soldiers were being picked off at every corner of Kosova, by untrained freedom fighters, and these freedom fighters only grew by the day! Had it not been for NATO's intervention, Serbia proper would have felt the KLA's wrath descend upon it!, Serbia should be thanking NATO for their intervention!!!
Serbia's crimes will never be forgotten by Balkan nations. It would be to the benefit of Serbia to genuinely apologize for these crimes so that such act can also be remembered. At this point, Serbia's unremorseful stance simply adds to its image of an untrustworthy and unstable state in the heart of the Balkans.
They are getting desperate and making things up. Thaci is a liar, murderer, terrorist and organ trafficker while Obama lied last night by claiming that "Kosovahhh"* gained independence through a referendum co-ordinated with the UN. This is completely untrue and their propaganda has come to the level of lies, lies and more lies.
My friend, they cannot win with the truth so they are only left with deceit. We hear it here every day from our local Albanians and their supporters, like NATO intervened to prevent a humanitarian catastrophy where the truth is they created one. That Serbs committed genocide in KiM where we are the victims of genocide as hundreds of thousands of Serbs have been ethnically cleansed and displaced over decades, and crimes against non-Albanians being covered up and hidden.
Peter, what about the ethnic cleansing against Serbs? It happened in 2004, organised with NATO. It happened after NATO bombing in 1999 and it has been a continuous occurrence over decades. However, western propaganda likes to spin things the other way. Hundreds of thousands of Serbs were cleansed from Croatia, KiM and BiH but hardly a mention of this. Why is that?
By your definition nothing really is a genocide! Not even the Holocaust or the war in Rwanda!
You read some comments here from Serbs who have spent most of their natural lives outside the Balkans and live in cuckoo lands and have no basic remorse for any lost human lives whether they’re Albanian, Croatian or Muslim. It’s just sickening. What’s worse is that they actually condone what Arkan’s tigers and other chetnik and hooligan groups did in the Balkans in the 90s.
You also hear these pathetic voices and claims that only Serbia is being punished for these crimes! Well the truth is Serbia and its people did commit most crimes in the Balkans! Why? Crimes and massacres like Srebrenica, Krusha e Madhe, Prekaz, Bacin, Lovas, Vukovar etc etc etc were not committed by non-Serbs!!
Those chetniks who were punished for these crimes deserved what they got, in fact, in lesser-democratic times they would’ve gotten more than just life sentences!
The truth is, as everyone knows, that Serbia through its control of the Yugoslav army, its military superiority and Russian help, attempted to rid Kosova, Croatia and Bosnia of their native majority populations by all means necessary.
Serbia proper would have felt the KLA's wrath descend upon it!, Serbia should be thanking NATO for their intervention!!!
(Rocky, 28 March 2014 14:29)
Considering actual facts showed Albanians running for their lives in all directions away from Kosovo and Serbia Proper before and after NATO intervention, your boast is just another one of your YouTube wet dreams. If the KLA were as strong as you say it was, you wouldn't be crying about all the lives lost and claiming Serbs committed genocide.
Don't flex nuts you know you don't have, never had, and never will get.
Genocide against Kosovo Albanians? What a joke. If "genocide" actually occurred in the 2 years of fighting there would be a lot more dead Albanians and not just in Kosovo but all over FRY. Nothing but false propaganda and excuses for a hostile land-grab.
Genocide refers to "the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group". The Serbs did not plan to systematically and deliberately exterminate Albanians. This is why the word was irresponsibly used by Hashim Thaci.
He should have used the term "ethnic cleansing" as this is precisely what happened. Serbia intended to drive out the Albanians in Kosovo, not to deliberately exterminate Albanians in a genocidal fashion.
There were thousands of Albanians killed in the process indeed, but if Serbia's intention was genocide, it would have been close to the two million and not a few thousand (also given the amount of refugees, which either escaped or in most cases, were driven out and not killed).
I understand the emotions around it, though. Something similar happened to the Poles living in Volyhnia and Galicia during WWII. The UPA/OUN and peasant supporters intended to drive out all Poles living in these regions, not exterminate all Poles up to and including Poland itself, which is why it was ethnic cleansing and not genocide, despite the fact that we had more victims than you did.
So why take the body's and put them all the way in Belgrade, it was systematic killing by Serbian Paramilitary. You can twist it how you like it where is Vulin to protest for Albanins being killed?
And no one is talking about raped victims in Kosovo this is something shows true brutality of last war. May the sins of their fathers be washed in their daughters tears.
I was referring specifically to adrian kola's post with regards to the ethnic cleansing of Albanians, which is why I didn't mention Serbs as victims of ethnic cleansing in my post, but indeed, Serbs were also the victims of it at the hands of Croatians and Albanians in the Croatian war of independence and the Kosovo war respectively.
The reason why they are not given their due? Because the first victim of war is the truth and it is later written by the victors.
There is nothing new here, except perhaps that thaci is finally being open and direct about what was done to the Albanians of Kosova. We (and others) have been writing about this for years. Thaci is reminding the world about what happened - the belgrade regime, per usual is denying it all and acting the victims. same ole same old.
here are some links: http://www.albaniapress.com/lajme/16406/The-Book-Ends-of-Genocide-.html
that's just 3 - actually 4. so i'm glad thaci has finally piped up, but it is really old news.
I will not engage in this ridiculous discussion of genocide v "ethnic cleansing." Serbia had an intent of genocide in Croatia, Bosnia, and Kosova. It did everything it could to carry it out. if millions more weren't butchered, it was not through lack of trying.
Serbian nationalists have long spoken about "genocide" against them. While it could at least be argued during ww2, it has been used as a cheap cover-up ever since.
as for your dick-marty report, go eat it. (rhymes)
The truth is, as everyone knows, that Serbia through its control of the Yugoslav army, its military superiority and Russian help, attempted to rid Kosova, Croatia and Bosnia of their native majority populations by all means necessary.
(adrian kola, 28 March 2014 16:58)
Thats YOUR truth ,the real truth is that serbs in Bosnia, Croatia and in Kosovo fought for their lives and their homes so that another Jasenovac wouldnt be repeated upon them. By the way it doesnt matter that a part of a country has a certain majority, that does not give that majority the rights to abuse and terrorize people with another ethnicity that you albanians have been doing against serbs in Kosovo forever. Remember that Kosovo is and was a part of Serbia so the only thing we did was to defend our own country against terrorists.
The Rwandan Genocide was without a doubt genocide, because the Hutus intended to exterminate the Tutsis down to every single last man, woman and child and were not far off, were it not for government forces taking control of the country.
There are other examples in history, but Serbian actions in the Balkans were not genocide. The closest of all to this definition from those wars was perhaps with the Bosnians, but even here it was limited to two big massacres (the rest of anti-Bosnian actions were ethnic cleansing also as RS was simply cleansed of all non-Serbs and nothing similar happened in the Federation. As for the rest, it is only speculation as to whether unchecked, the Serbs would have inflicted a genocide against any other Balkan people, but what happened to the Albanians in Kosovo was not genocide, because the Serbs 1) did not kill all Albanians in Kosovo, rather drove most of them out and 2) did not act against Albanians in other former Yugoslav republics, let alone Albania.
Peterl Suduyka, I agree with you, this was not genocide. It was an attempted genocide hence ethnic cleansing. Thaci did not characterize this right.
Having said this, the focus is all wrong. What in the world were these dead bodies doing inside of Serbia. Who brought them there? Who ordered their death? Who ordered for these bodies to be removed from the crime scene and be brought to Serbia? What was the true intention behind that reason? Why did they bring these bodies of Albanians inside Serbia? Why were the buried and kept there for so long? Why were not they returned as soon as the war was over? What was stopping their return?
This is what the focus is should be on. A Serbian official ordered a mass murder. Not only was a crime committed but the bodies were removed and brought to Serbia as an attempt to hide evidence. In a current case they even built multi-story building on top of a burial site. Not only that but Serbia is refusing to dig the bodies out. This should be the focus of our discussions.
"The reason why they are not given their due? Because the first victim of war is the truth and it is later written by the victors."
(Peter Sudyka, 28 March 2014 15:41)
And to add, that the victims amongst the aggressor is seen with different eyes. The ethnic cleansing of Serbs in Krajina and Kosovo was a result of the attempted ethnic cleansing of Croats (some 100.000 were driven out of Krajina) and Albanians in Kosovo. It only fired back.
Why should anybody talk about the 'ethnic cleansing' of Germans who were living in many regions after WW2, in territories of nowadays Czech Republic, Poland, Russia, and YU. Well, some Czech politician said some year ago that expelling the whole German population nowadays would be considered a war crime, and he was booed for this (true) statement
"What to call the abduction of about 300 Serbs and other non-Albanians who, according to the report by (former Council of Europe rapporteur) Dick Marty, were transported to Albania, where organs were removed from their bodies and later sold across Europe?”
Maybe he should read Marty's report before quoting from it, however, that seems to be a common thread.
He said there was "uncollaborated" allegations that needed further investigation. Never in his report did he say that this DID happen, but he did say that IF it happened the numbers would most likely be in the 10's and not 100's as rumored.
He took witness testimony from many sources but readily that none of this testimony had been tested for veracity or accuracy. That was not his job, his job was to see if there was reason to have an investigation.
The reason why they are not given their due? Because the first victim of war is the truth and it is later written by the victors.
(Peter Sudyka, 28 March 2014 15:41)
So, you mean it is written by Serbia in this case, since, according to the most patriotic of Serbs, that was a great victory for Serbia.
The Rwandan Genocide was definitely a genocide, because the Hutus intended to exterminate the Tutsis down to the last man, woman and child. Casualties are estimated as up to 1,000,000 dead.
In Kosovo, the concept was different. Several thousand were killed during an ethnic cleansing process, where ethnic Albanians were driven out of their homes outside of the borders into Albania and Macedonia.
That is the key difference why one is genocide and the other ethnic cleansing.
(Peter Sudyka, 28 March 2014 13:48)
At first I fully agreed with your post that it was more appropriate to call the Milosevic scourge an ethnic cleansing campaign as his goal was pure and simple to cleanse Kosovo of Albanians through whatever means necessary, first it was political and by state changes, removing any power, then it was by taking away their culture, through cutting the Albanian culture and language out of the schools, cutting the economics by replacing all Albanian state workers with Serbs, then with police and military crackdowns and brutality. When that did not cause them to leave, the violence escalated and included murders and rapes, tortures and forced expulsions. Sounds like "merely a cleansing campaign" Sounds a little more pleasing to the ear, a lost less offensive and evil doesn't it? Then I found this definition of genocide.
"a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be the disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups"
So do you call it Ethnic Cleansing or Genocide, either should not leave a pleasant taste in your mouth.
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