Another Ukrainian base in Crimea overran

Another Ukrainian base in Crimea overrun.

B92

Wrong heading B92.It should read "Russian troops seize Russian marine base from Ukrainian occupation force".What are Ukrainian forces doing in a country that is not theirs (anymore)?Since there was a referendum held and Crimea decided to join their brothers in Russia Ukrainian forces should have had the honour and integrity to vacate those bases and move back to Ukraine.

Leonidas

What are Ukrainian forces doing in a country that is not theirs (anymore)?

The only thing Kiev dreamed of was bloodshed but Russians took control using only fists. Yesterday in Belbek airport they even had no arms. So today in Kiev they got to realize that there will be no blood at all and they had to give command for withdrawal. What is interesting Russia fought against and for Crimea 12 times but twice that we took control over the peninsula there was not a single shot. Anyway nobody in Russia believes that this war is over. The only thing definite thing is that Russia will no longer leave it. The other day the head of the Crimean Parliament at a rally asked the crowd in Moscow : “Please do not preset us any more coz we’ll be back home in any case”.

"Wrong heading B92.It should read "Russian troops seize Russian marine base from Ukrainian occupation force"
(Leonidas, 24 March 2014 13:42)

You mean like Kosovo Albanians 'seized' and usurped houses owned by Serbs? Because: What are Serbs doing in a country that is not theirs any more? They should have the dignity to move to their homeland, including their churches and monasteries.

No, Russia is usurping and stealing Ukrainian property, submarines, war ships and other equipment. These Russian marines are nothing else but ordinary pirates.

You mean like Kosovo Albanians 'seized' and usurped houses owned by Serbs? Because: What are Serbs doing in a country that is not theirs any more? They should have the dignity to move to their homeland, including their churches and monasteries.

No, Russia is usurping and stealing Ukrainian property, submarines, war ships and other equipment. These Russian marines are nothing else but ordinary pirates.
(Comm. Parrisson, 24 March 2014 14:30)

Historically both Kosovo and Crimea were Serbian and Russian respectfully and they should be returned to their rightful owners.Crimea is gone already and next is the turn of Kosovo(it could take a bit longer though).

As to your piracy the fact of the matter is, the Crimean authorities had de facto control of Crimea, it has a defined territory and population, the Crimean people have a shared history and culture and the Crimean authorities have the machinery of state to be able to conduct international relations ( decided though to join Russia). It ticks all the boxes.

As far as I am concerned (I said this various times) the events in Crimea are just a part of the new geopolitical shape.Across the globe there is a New Great Game and this very much depends on classic geopolitical contests in which the US and EU are competing against Russia and China for control and influence over resource rich regions.It won't stop with Ukraine,it has along way to go.

@Leonidas; so you agree with me, Kosovo was not historically Serbian? Crimea was not historically Russian?
as for your other points, I have noticed with you, you tend to dwell on Albanian ancestry. Why? Let me tell you my stance on all of that; you could prove it to me, beyond any doubt that Albanian people come from, never mind Turkey, even further away, South Africa and my opinion on Kosova would not change. regards to my Enverist education, well, not that I buy into his educational doctrines, however, type Albanian people on Wikipedia and you'll find many a academics who subscribe to the Illyrain theory. so if you have a problem, take it up with them, not one person is stopping you. not that history shapes my views on current affairs, as it seems to with you
(Nikolle, 25 March 2014 14:27)

No I don't and I've explained the reasons.There are no Romans to claim Kosovo and Serbs preceded the Ottomans.The same applies to Crimea.As far as Albanian ancestry is concerned I wouldn't give a fig, I am only replying to the constant bombardment by the Albanian posters reminding us of their glorious ancestry.There is no point in searching on Google about the Albanian ancestry.There is neither archaeological,nor historiography or linguistics to support any of the Albanian claims.As the Albanians favourite historian Malcolm has said" Where and when Albanians came from still remains a mystery".Lets leave it to that.

Peter Sudyka, 26 March 2014 09:32

This is rather a non story.The overwhelming majority of Ukrainian servicemen have chosen to stay in the Crimea, many transferring to the Russian military the rest were allowed to leave if they so wished.If I were you I will be interested in real news Victoria Nuland bragging about the US spending $5 billion on their fascist revolution in Ukraine orlike the Tymoshenko female oligarch threatening to kill eight million ethnic Russians in the east of the country by getting her 'friends' to nuke Russia.Trying to compare Crimea with Kosovo and Cyprus is like comparing apples with oranges.The history in Cyprus didn't start in 1579 when the Ottomans conquered Cyprus or in 1974 and since when the Turks transferred their 300000 settlers in.

As to my political leanings I don't use any when I consider a particular situation.You seem to believe the events in Crimea are about democracy,corruption or human rights-the same propaganda the US neocons used in attacking and destroying many countries around the world.I support Russia's stand because they are the only country that can stand against
the US psychopaths.I don't feel threatened by Putin. Who invades and bombs the living daylights out of innocent civilians on a DAILY basis throughout the world? You can't run from America and her EU poodles, they're even bombing the Central African Republic.

Congratulations to the Crimean people!

I have never understood why people keep insisting on this nonsense, when it very obviously isn't true. which point in history are talking about here? let us take Kosovo first, it has been Roman & Ottoman longer than it was Serbian. it was Roman way before it ever became part of Nemnjas. Why people enjoy posting garbage is beyond me. Crimea: which point in history are talking about here? it has been Greek, Roman, Ottoman and Russian at various points. it was never originally part of Russia. i'd have thought that these things are simple logic
(Nikolle, 25 March 2014 11:34)

You find it difficult to understand because historical truths clash with your "Enverian" narrative-Albanians are Illyrians.I don't see any Greeks,Romans or Ottomans making any claims on the current disputes in Kosovo and Crimea.Crimea was part of Russia since the 18th Century and since the majority of its population are ethnic Russians they decided through a referendum to declare independence and then join Russia.Also the current dispute in Kosovo is only between Serbia and Kosovo's Albanian population.Was Kosovo Albanian when the Ottomans conquered the Balkans?No if we're to believe Turkish historians.By using sources from the Ottoman archives they claim when the Ottomans arrived the area was inhabited by Christian populations but mainly Slavic ones.This why all toponyms are bearing Serbian names.This is the historical relevance you conveniently fail to understand.

to icj1:
The Rusians were not invaded and encircled in Berlin.
It is a big difference between those 2 battles (Sevastopol and Berlin).
But I guess you've already known that. In 1941-1942 the Russians were INVADED. In 1945 the Russians were the INVADERS. The invaded nations get morally rights for the land which they defend, even if they loose a battle or the war. With one condition: to fight for that land.
In 2014 the Ukrainians abandoned Crimea. I guess it's a big difference between the Russian stance in 1941 (towards the German invaders) and the Ukrainian stance in 2014 (towards the Russian invaders).
One more thing: it's quite impossible to claim a land if you don't fight for it and the next generations won't remember the heroes who died in order to take them as an example ... and so on. The next Ukrainian generation will learn that in 2014 their army simply didnt fight for Crimea. Why? Are they poorly equipped? Sure they are. In 1941, the Sevastopol defenders were also poorly equipped. Their air cover was 0. But still they fought the battle for many months. This is the key: they fought. Finally they lost the battle but they won the war in the end. Because they fought every battle. The victories came after many defeats. But perhaps the victories would have never come without those defeats...

@Paul Ro

I don't know, I look at history as an academic discipline, not as a tool to indoctrinate people. I don't personally care who was in Crimea first, it has no relevance to the situation today as one does not solve current issues by going back to the 18th century, of 17th, or 16th or 15th and so on and so forth, which is why I always get amazed when people bring it up. I mean, historically, it seems to me, the Tatars have as valid a claim as anybody else, but of course no one is making that argument

@Leonidas, take some of your passion out. Let's have a conversation based on cold logic. Personally I could give a rats a$$ if Albanians came from the moon and landed in Kosova 100 years ago. Your argument is weak. Since you don't seem to care how long others ruled Kosova then you you go on and say well the Turks and the Italians aren't claiming it. So even if Serbia had it only for a fraction of that time it should have it because they are claiming it. Well then applying the same logic, since time is of no importance to you, we are the latest one claiming it so we should have it. Doesn't sound right does it? It's because it isn't . The claim comes from what makes a country. A country is a social contract between its people. Serbia broke this contract by first forcefully revoking the autonomy and second through killing thousands of civilians and ethnically cleansing half of the population. Later on Serbia broke this contract again as it unilaterally claimed Kosova as it's own in the middle of status negotiations, by passing a constitution where the Albanians were denied the right to vote. All of this despite the fact that the negotiation rules strictly prohibited any party from unilaterally pre-determining Kosova's status until negotiations were over and the status settled. It is only after this that Kosova declared independence after a UN envoy recommended it. In light of all these unilateral breaches of the social contract from Serbia, Kosova is claimed by its population.

As to my political leanings I don't use any when I consider a particular situation.You seem to believe the events in Crimea are about democracy,corruption or human rights-the same propaganda the US neocons used in attacking and destroying many countries around the world.I support Russia's stand because they are the only country that can stand against
the US psychopaths.I don't feel threatened by Putin. Who invades and bombs the living daylights out of innocent civilians on a DAILY basis throughout the world? You can't run from America and her EU poodles, they're even bombing the Central African Republic.
(Leonidas, 26 March 2014 14:02)

There is something wrong with that thought process. Georgia, Ukraine, Afghanistan, Chzechoslovakia, Syria, Venezuela; let alone the whole eastern Europe. You are naive because you have never experienced life under Russia's iron fist. So despite your denials you are really rooting for Russia because of them being Orthodox, and your anti western attitude. None of which is based on any real concerns you have for human life. No logic on this earth can absolve Russia for its abuses in human rights and it's crimes let alone transform it into some champion of the preservation of human life. None of your positions really stands the test of logic. All of them are based on emotions and passion, rather than logic and your concerns about achieving the most common good for most people.

Peter Sudyka,

I've followed the events in Ukraine closely and prior to referendum in Crimea Russia followed the rule book of international diplomacy.As Putin said in his statement the EU/US gang-despite the 21st February agreement for bringing the election date forward-carried out a coup by installing the right wing Timoshenko gangs in power.Do you think Putin was aggressive Peter? Why? For tackling, CIA/EU/NATO sponsored Nazi thugs and Islamic terrorists (ie. graduates from the CIA funded madras') who encroach on his nation's borders?If you want evidence of real aggression, try looking at the works of the 'Bankster Puppets' who 'lead' the Western World.
Bush (Senior and Junior) Cheney, Obama, Blair, Brown, Cameron etc. etc.etc.ad nauseum.

Leonidas

I am well aware that the US State Department and George Soros bankrolled individuals that sparked the Ukrainian uprising and I know very well that Russia in no way can compare to this type of manipulation, which is why I have said that I prefer Russia to America when it comes to international affairs, but knowing Ukrainian living standards, I believe that the lobby in the USA just threw fuel onto a fire already waiting to break out of control anyway.

The explanation is simple. The Ukrainians are hungry and poor. Their army is poorly equipped. They can only think of quiting their "fight" or even joining the Russian army. If Russia invades all Ukraine they would run away again. They wouldnt stop until Poland.
The previous Ukr. gov. served the Russia's interests. Yushchenko and Timoshenko made even bigger mistakes which also served Russia's interests. Ukraine is rotten deep inside. The Russians were happy to preserve this situation so they can grab the country easily when the right time comes. And the right time has come.
But it seems those politicians in Kiev are quite blind. They need MONEY now to pay their ARMY and to buy WEAPONS. A lot of money! Otherwise Ukraine will cease to exist.
It's a big shame for what happened. A shame for an army which was not able to defend its land. Military personnel are bound to military oath and this situation (of non-combat) is unthinkable. To abandon your unit without a fight... But this happened and it really means they are on the verge of collapse.
Yeah, Russia has historically rights in Crimea. But still, this affair looks like a horendous theft. Just the way Serbia was deprived of Kosovo province.
So... Mr. Putin will recover a lot from the lost glory of Soviet Union. This is his goal. And he will use all the Russian resources to achieve it, including military.
Ukraine will cease to exist. Sooner or later. Unfortunatelly.

As far as I am concerned (I said this various times) the events in Crimea are just a part of the new geopolitical shape.Across the globe there is a New Great Game and this very much depends on classic geopolitical contests in which the US and EU are competing against Russia and China for control and influence over resource rich regions.It won't stop with Ukraine,it has along way to go.
(Leonidas, 24 March 2014 19:30)

Leonidas, the way things are going, it very likely Greece might get the short end of the stick. You can't really count on the Russians. If you swing the Russian way a little too much you will piss of NATO and Turkey is ready to bring you to your senses and into the alliance again. You are in a delicate position. It is really not hard to wonder why Athens has been so quiet lately. Careful who you cheer for. The West hasn't been bad to you. Ask Romania or Poland and they will tell you how nice it is to be under Russian influence. Ignorance is not bliss in this case.

Leonidas, the way things are going, it very likely Greece might get the short end of the stick. You can't really count on the Russians. If you swing the Russian way a little too much you will piss of NATO and Turkey is ready to bring you to your senses and into the alliance again. You are in a delicate position. It is really not hard to wonder why Athens has been so quiet lately. Careful who you cheer for. The West hasn't been bad to you. Ask Romania or Poland and they will tell you how nice it is to be under Russian influence. Ignorance is not bliss in this case.
(j, 25 March 2014 01:30)

Give the Turkish generals some credit.They are not idiots:they will only attack when they are pretty sure their rivals are weak eg Kurdish villages in Northern Iraq,the invasion in Cyprus 1974 orchestrated by Kissinger and his Greek junta puppets(See wikileaks cables).You probably forget that Greece has a powerful army of its own with state of the art equipment (look at the inventory of the Hellenic Army).You also probably forget that 25 million Kurds are edging for independence.As to Romanians and Bulgarians it's true the found a new paradise called EU(being unemployed and sleeping under bridges and in parks in EU capitals or begging on the streets).Ignorance is indeed a bliss.

"Historically both Kosovo and Crimea were Serbian and Russian respectfully and they should be returned to their rightful owners"

I have never understood why people keep insisting on this nonsense, when it very obviously isn't true. which point in history are talking about here? let us take Kosovo first, it has been Roman & Ottoman longer than it was Serbian. it was Roman way before it ever became part of Nemnjas. Why people enjoy posting garbage is beyond me. Crimea: which point in history are talking about here? it has been Greek, Roman, Ottoman and Russian at various points. it was never originally part of Russia. i'd have thought that these things are simple logic

@Leonidas; so you agree with me, Kosovo was not historically Serbian? Crimea was not historically Russian?
as for your other points, I have noticed with you, you tend to dwell on Albanian ancestry. Why? Let me tell you my stance on all of that; you could prove it to me, beyond any doubt that Albanian people come from, never mind Turkey, even further away, South Africa and my opinion on Kosova would not change. regards to my Enverist education, well, not that I buy into his educational doctrines, however, type Albanian people on Wikipedia and you'll find many a academics who subscribe to the Illyrain theory. so if you have a problem, take it up with them, not one person is stopping you. not that history shapes my views on current affairs, as it seems to with you

since the majority of its population are ethnic Russians they decided through a referendum to declare independence
(Leonidas, 25 March 2014 13:58)

make perfect sense... For Kosovo, as well, since the majority of its population are ethnic Albanians they decided through a referendum to declare independence. glad that we finally agree.

As to Romanians and Bulgarians it's true the found a new paradise called EU(being unemployed and sleeping under bridges and in parks in EU capitals or begging on the streets).Ignorance is indeed a bliss.
(Leonidas, 25 March 2014 10:25)

You are right, ignorance is a bliss...
As for the Turkish army, I'm quite positive they can wipe out Greece in a matter of days. If they really wanted that. But it's not the case. Not now.

"As to Romanians and Bulgarians it's true the found a new paradise called EU(being unemployed and sleeping under bridges and in parks in EU capitals or begging on the streets).Ignorance is indeed a bliss.
(Leonidas, 25 March 2014 10:25)"

Not everyone seems to agree with your assessment of EU membership, or more precisely, the EU economic model:

http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/danieljmitchell/2014/03/17/ukraines-biggest-problem-isnt-putin-its-putinonomics-n1810053

To Nikolle:
WW2. 1941-1942. The way the Russians defended Sevastopol, the huge sacrifices during that battle. A lot of blood shed. I think this is the most important historical moment which linked Crimea to Russia. More than the previous ones.
It made Sevastopol a Russian city just the way Sankt Petersburg, Volgograd or Moscow are... Because it was covered with Russian blood. Blood of the soldiers and blood of the civilians defending the city against the Germans. This is the way the Russian commoners think. I can understand their reasons.
Some of them might say "Yeah, it's the same about Harkov. We fought 4 battles there...".
Or Kiev... "Only" 2 battles... One thing is certain: Ukraine's history is strongly related to Russia's history. I just hope they can live in peace as neighbours.
Of course, the Russians are masters in using their history for propaganda means... But history remains and it was truly written with blood.

@Leonidas

I detect a sense of frustration in your post. No one here brought Illyrians into this thread, you did. you came up with the statement that Kosovo & Crimea are historically Serbian & Russian, it very obviously isn't true. as for Noel Malcolm, well, I have read his book and he did say in it that Albanians most likely come from Illyrians. not that I genuinely care, just wanted to point that out

The way the Russians defended Sevastopol, the huge sacrifices during that battle. A lot of blood shed.
(Paul RO, 25 March 2014 14:43)

More Russian blood was shed in Berlin then in Sevastopol. Therefore, Russia's right to annex Berlin, as well (even more than Crimea). It is also Americas right to annex Japan, and so on...

The only thing Kiev dreamed of was bloodshed
(rote, 24 March 2014 15:17)

Interesting... so they wanted to be killed. That's a weird wish :) But I guess it must be true because probably RT is saying it (regardless of the fact that it defies logic - thinking is not part of the human nature for some Russians).

Leonidas

I am 100% with you when it comes to your views on the US. They are the biggest imperialist power on this planet and have resorted to, as you put it, bombing the living daylights out of weaker countries more times than I can remember and I absolutely do not take their side in any way.

I am just saying that while Russia is not as aggressive as the USA, I am not condoning their annexation of Crimea in the unilateral fashion that it was handled as the core principal is essentially the same: taking some part of the world into their orbit of influence and away from that of the polar opposite rival, and I simply do not take sides, even though personally I definitely prefer the Russians to the Americans (despite the extremely difficult history that Poles and Russians share).

Across the globe there is a New Great Game and this very much depends on classic geopolitical contests in which the US and EU are competing against Russia and China for control and influence over resource rich regions.It won't stop with Ukraine,it has along way to go.
(Leonidas, 24 March 2014 19:30)

Yeah, you are almost correct... I would only take out Russia from the picture above since the only control it can hope to achieve is for some weak entities around its borders like Georgia, Moldova, Belorussia or Crimea.

Since there was a referendum held and Crimea decided to join their brothers in Russia Ukrainian forces should have had the honour and integrity to vacate those bases and move back to Ukraine.
(Leonidas, 24 March 2014 13:42)

Careful with this type of logic, Leonidas.

Crimea voted to be a part of Russia just like Kosovo voted to be independent using the same means: a referendum - one which the vast majority of the population voted in favour of the latter scenarios. Russians are the majority of Crimea just like Albanians are the majority of Kosovo. Where is the justification for one and not for the other? Another example closer to home is that of Northern Cyprus. And yes, I know none of these examples are identical, but the principal is the same: a larger foreign invader ILLEGALLY violating a smaller nation's sovereignty.

Don't blindly take Russia's side just because of your political leanings. They have manipulated international law by violating the sovereignty of an internationally recognized nation no different (except when comparing technical issues) no different (in principal) from the West with Serbia and Kosovo. It can't be now that Kosovo was wrenched away from Serbia illegally against UNSC1244 but Crimean secession and merging with Russia was perfectly fine due to the referendum. It is not and for the very reason that there was no MUTUAL AGREEMENT ON BOTH SIDES, only unilateral actions.

Legally, Kosovo = Serbia and Crimea = Ukraine.

"Wrong heading B92.It should read "Russian troops seize Russian marine base from Ukrainian occupation force"
(Leonidas, 24 March 2014 13:42)

You mean like Kosovo Albanians 'seized' and usurped houses owned by Serbs? Because: What are Serbs doing in a country that is not theirs any more? They should have the dignity to move to their homeland, including their churches and monasteries.

No, Russia is usurping and stealing Ukrainian property, submarines, war ships and other equipment. These Russian marines are nothing else but ordinary pirates.

Another Ukrainian base in Crimea overrun.

B92

Wrong heading B92.It should read "Russian troops seize Russian marine base from Ukrainian occupation force".What are Ukrainian forces doing in a country that is not theirs (anymore)?Since there was a referendum held and Crimea decided to join their brothers in Russia Ukrainian forces should have had the honour and integrity to vacate those bases and move back to Ukraine.

@Leonidas, take some of your passion out. Let's have a conversation based on cold logic. Personally I could give a rats a$$ if Albanians came from the moon and landed in Kosova 100 years ago. Your argument is weak. Since you don't seem to care how long others ruled Kosova then you you go on and say well the Turks and the Italians aren't claiming it. So even if Serbia had it only for a fraction of that time it should have it because they are claiming it. Well then applying the same logic, since time is of no importance to you, we are the latest one claiming it so we should have it. Doesn't sound right does it? It's because it isn't . The claim comes from what makes a country. A country is a social contract between its people. Serbia broke this contract by first forcefully revoking the autonomy and second through killing thousands of civilians and ethnically cleansing half of the population. Later on Serbia broke this contract again as it unilaterally claimed Kosova as it's own in the middle of status negotiations, by passing a constitution where the Albanians were denied the right to vote. All of this despite the fact that the negotiation rules strictly prohibited any party from unilaterally pre-determining Kosova's status until negotiations were over and the status settled. It is only after this that Kosova declared independence after a UN envoy recommended it. In light of all these unilateral breaches of the social contract from Serbia, Kosova is claimed by its population.

You mean like Kosovo Albanians 'seized' and usurped houses owned by Serbs? Because: What are Serbs doing in a country that is not theirs any more? They should have the dignity to move to their homeland, including their churches and monasteries.

No, Russia is usurping and stealing Ukrainian property, submarines, war ships and other equipment. These Russian marines are nothing else but ordinary pirates.
(Comm. Parrisson, 24 March 2014 14:30)

Historically both Kosovo and Crimea were Serbian and Russian respectfully and they should be returned to their rightful owners.Crimea is gone already and next is the turn of Kosovo(it could take a bit longer though).

As to your piracy the fact of the matter is, the Crimean authorities had de facto control of Crimea, it has a defined territory and population, the Crimean people have a shared history and culture and the Crimean authorities have the machinery of state to be able to conduct international relations ( decided though to join Russia). It ticks all the boxes.

As far as I am concerned (I said this various times) the events in Crimea are just a part of the new geopolitical shape.Across the globe there is a New Great Game and this very much depends on classic geopolitical contests in which the US and EU are competing against Russia and China for control and influence over resource rich regions.It won't stop with Ukraine,it has along way to go.

@Paul Ro

I don't know, I look at history as an academic discipline, not as a tool to indoctrinate people. I don't personally care who was in Crimea first, it has no relevance to the situation today as one does not solve current issues by going back to the 18th century, of 17th, or 16th or 15th and so on and so forth, which is why I always get amazed when people bring it up. I mean, historically, it seems to me, the Tatars have as valid a claim as anybody else, but of course no one is making that argument

@Leonidas

I detect a sense of frustration in your post. No one here brought Illyrians into this thread, you did. you came up with the statement that Kosovo & Crimea are historically Serbian & Russian, it very obviously isn't true. as for Noel Malcolm, well, I have read his book and he did say in it that Albanians most likely come from Illyrians. not that I genuinely care, just wanted to point that out

The way the Russians defended Sevastopol, the huge sacrifices during that battle. A lot of blood shed.
(Paul RO, 25 March 2014 14:43)

More Russian blood was shed in Berlin then in Sevastopol. Therefore, Russia's right to annex Berlin, as well (even more than Crimea). It is also Americas right to annex Japan, and so on...

since the majority of its population are ethnic Russians they decided through a referendum to declare independence
(Leonidas, 25 March 2014 13:58)

make perfect sense... For Kosovo, as well, since the majority of its population are ethnic Albanians they decided through a referendum to declare independence. glad that we finally agree.

The only thing Kiev dreamed of was bloodshed
(rote, 24 March 2014 15:17)

Interesting... so they wanted to be killed. That's a weird wish :) But I guess it must be true because probably RT is saying it (regardless of the fact that it defies logic - thinking is not part of the human nature for some Russians).

Leonidas

What are Ukrainian forces doing in a country that is not theirs (anymore)?

The only thing Kiev dreamed of was bloodshed but Russians took control using only fists. Yesterday in Belbek airport they even had no arms. So today in Kiev they got to realize that there will be no blood at all and they had to give command for withdrawal. What is interesting Russia fought against and for Crimea 12 times but twice that we took control over the peninsula there was not a single shot. Anyway nobody in Russia believes that this war is over. The only thing definite thing is that Russia will no longer leave it. The other day the head of the Crimean Parliament at a rally asked the crowd in Moscow : “Please do not preset us any more coz we’ll be back home in any case”.

Leonidas, the way things are going, it very likely Greece might get the short end of the stick. You can't really count on the Russians. If you swing the Russian way a little too much you will piss of NATO and Turkey is ready to bring you to your senses and into the alliance again. You are in a delicate position. It is really not hard to wonder why Athens has been so quiet lately. Careful who you cheer for. The West hasn't been bad to you. Ask Romania or Poland and they will tell you how nice it is to be under Russian influence. Ignorance is not bliss in this case.
(j, 25 March 2014 01:30)

Give the Turkish generals some credit.They are not idiots:they will only attack when they are pretty sure their rivals are weak eg Kurdish villages in Northern Iraq,the invasion in Cyprus 1974 orchestrated by Kissinger and his Greek junta puppets(See wikileaks cables).You probably forget that Greece has a powerful army of its own with state of the art equipment (look at the inventory of the Hellenic Army).You also probably forget that 25 million Kurds are edging for independence.As to Romanians and Bulgarians it's true the found a new paradise called EU(being unemployed and sleeping under bridges and in parks in EU capitals or begging on the streets).Ignorance is indeed a bliss.

I have never understood why people keep insisting on this nonsense, when it very obviously isn't true. which point in history are talking about here? let us take Kosovo first, it has been Roman & Ottoman longer than it was Serbian. it was Roman way before it ever became part of Nemnjas. Why people enjoy posting garbage is beyond me. Crimea: which point in history are talking about here? it has been Greek, Roman, Ottoman and Russian at various points. it was never originally part of Russia. i'd have thought that these things are simple logic
(Nikolle, 25 March 2014 11:34)

You find it difficult to understand because historical truths clash with your "Enverian" narrative-Albanians are Illyrians.I don't see any Greeks,Romans or Ottomans making any claims on the current disputes in Kosovo and Crimea.Crimea was part of Russia since the 18th Century and since the majority of its population are ethnic Russians they decided through a referendum to declare independence and then join Russia.Also the current dispute in Kosovo is only between Serbia and Kosovo's Albanian population.Was Kosovo Albanian when the Ottomans conquered the Balkans?No if we're to believe Turkish historians.By using sources from the Ottoman archives they claim when the Ottomans arrived the area was inhabited by Christian populations but mainly Slavic ones.This why all toponyms are bearing Serbian names.This is the historical relevance you conveniently fail to understand.

@Leonidas; so you agree with me, Kosovo was not historically Serbian? Crimea was not historically Russian?
as for your other points, I have noticed with you, you tend to dwell on Albanian ancestry. Why? Let me tell you my stance on all of that; you could prove it to me, beyond any doubt that Albanian people come from, never mind Turkey, even further away, South Africa and my opinion on Kosova would not change. regards to my Enverist education, well, not that I buy into his educational doctrines, however, type Albanian people on Wikipedia and you'll find many a academics who subscribe to the Illyrain theory. so if you have a problem, take it up with them, not one person is stopping you. not that history shapes my views on current affairs, as it seems to with you

Across the globe there is a New Great Game and this very much depends on classic geopolitical contests in which the US and EU are competing against Russia and China for control and influence over resource rich regions.It won't stop with Ukraine,it has along way to go.
(Leonidas, 24 March 2014 19:30)

Yeah, you are almost correct... I would only take out Russia from the picture above since the only control it can hope to achieve is for some weak entities around its borders like Georgia, Moldova, Belorussia or Crimea.

Since there was a referendum held and Crimea decided to join their brothers in Russia Ukrainian forces should have had the honour and integrity to vacate those bases and move back to Ukraine.
(Leonidas, 24 March 2014 13:42)

Careful with this type of logic, Leonidas.

Crimea voted to be a part of Russia just like Kosovo voted to be independent using the same means: a referendum - one which the vast majority of the population voted in favour of the latter scenarios. Russians are the majority of Crimea just like Albanians are the majority of Kosovo. Where is the justification for one and not for the other? Another example closer to home is that of Northern Cyprus. And yes, I know none of these examples are identical, but the principal is the same: a larger foreign invader ILLEGALLY violating a smaller nation's sovereignty.

Don't blindly take Russia's side just because of your political leanings. They have manipulated international law by violating the sovereignty of an internationally recognized nation no different (except when comparing technical issues) no different (in principal) from the West with Serbia and Kosovo. It can't be now that Kosovo was wrenched away from Serbia illegally against UNSC1244 but Crimean secession and merging with Russia was perfectly fine due to the referendum. It is not and for the very reason that there was no MUTUAL AGREEMENT ON BOTH SIDES, only unilateral actions.

Legally, Kosovo = Serbia and Crimea = Ukraine.

"Historically both Kosovo and Crimea were Serbian and Russian respectfully and they should be returned to their rightful owners"

I have never understood why people keep insisting on this nonsense, when it very obviously isn't true. which point in history are talking about here? let us take Kosovo first, it has been Roman & Ottoman longer than it was Serbian. it was Roman way before it ever became part of Nemnjas. Why people enjoy posting garbage is beyond me. Crimea: which point in history are talking about here? it has been Greek, Roman, Ottoman and Russian at various points. it was never originally part of Russia. i'd have thought that these things are simple logic

@Leonidas; so you agree with me, Kosovo was not historically Serbian? Crimea was not historically Russian?
as for your other points, I have noticed with you, you tend to dwell on Albanian ancestry. Why? Let me tell you my stance on all of that; you could prove it to me, beyond any doubt that Albanian people come from, never mind Turkey, even further away, South Africa and my opinion on Kosova would not change. regards to my Enverist education, well, not that I buy into his educational doctrines, however, type Albanian people on Wikipedia and you'll find many a academics who subscribe to the Illyrain theory. so if you have a problem, take it up with them, not one person is stopping you. not that history shapes my views on current affairs, as it seems to with you
(Nikolle, 25 March 2014 14:27)

No I don't and I've explained the reasons.There are no Romans to claim Kosovo and Serbs preceded the Ottomans.The same applies to Crimea.As far as Albanian ancestry is concerned I wouldn't give a fig, I am only replying to the constant bombardment by the Albanian posters reminding us of their glorious ancestry.There is no point in searching on Google about the Albanian ancestry.There is neither archaeological,nor historiography or linguistics to support any of the Albanian claims.As the Albanians favourite historian Malcolm has said" Where and when Albanians came from still remains a mystery".Lets leave it to that.

Peter Sudyka, 26 March 2014 09:32

This is rather a non story.The overwhelming majority of Ukrainian servicemen have chosen to stay in the Crimea, many transferring to the Russian military the rest were allowed to leave if they so wished.If I were you I will be interested in real news Victoria Nuland bragging about the US spending $5 billion on their fascist revolution in Ukraine orlike the Tymoshenko female oligarch threatening to kill eight million ethnic Russians in the east of the country by getting her 'friends' to nuke Russia.Trying to compare Crimea with Kosovo and Cyprus is like comparing apples with oranges.The history in Cyprus didn't start in 1579 when the Ottomans conquered Cyprus or in 1974 and since when the Turks transferred their 300000 settlers in.

As to my political leanings I don't use any when I consider a particular situation.You seem to believe the events in Crimea are about democracy,corruption or human rights-the same propaganda the US neocons used in attacking and destroying many countries around the world.I support Russia's stand because they are the only country that can stand against
the US psychopaths.I don't feel threatened by Putin. Who invades and bombs the living daylights out of innocent civilians on a DAILY basis throughout the world? You can't run from America and her EU poodles, they're even bombing the Central African Republic.

As to my political leanings I don't use any when I consider a particular situation.You seem to believe the events in Crimea are about democracy,corruption or human rights-the same propaganda the US neocons used in attacking and destroying many countries around the world.I support Russia's stand because they are the only country that can stand against
the US psychopaths.I don't feel threatened by Putin. Who invades and bombs the living daylights out of innocent civilians on a DAILY basis throughout the world? You can't run from America and her EU poodles, they're even bombing the Central African Republic.
(Leonidas, 26 March 2014 14:02)

There is something wrong with that thought process. Georgia, Ukraine, Afghanistan, Chzechoslovakia, Syria, Venezuela; let alone the whole eastern Europe. You are naive because you have never experienced life under Russia's iron fist. So despite your denials you are really rooting for Russia because of them being Orthodox, and your anti western attitude. None of which is based on any real concerns you have for human life. No logic on this earth can absolve Russia for its abuses in human rights and it's crimes let alone transform it into some champion of the preservation of human life. None of your positions really stands the test of logic. All of them are based on emotions and passion, rather than logic and your concerns about achieving the most common good for most people.

Congratulations to the Crimean people!

As far as I am concerned (I said this various times) the events in Crimea are just a part of the new geopolitical shape.Across the globe there is a New Great Game and this very much depends on classic geopolitical contests in which the US and EU are competing against Russia and China for control and influence over resource rich regions.It won't stop with Ukraine,it has along way to go.
(Leonidas, 24 March 2014 19:30)

Leonidas, the way things are going, it very likely Greece might get the short end of the stick. You can't really count on the Russians. If you swing the Russian way a little too much you will piss of NATO and Turkey is ready to bring you to your senses and into the alliance again. You are in a delicate position. It is really not hard to wonder why Athens has been so quiet lately. Careful who you cheer for. The West hasn't been bad to you. Ask Romania or Poland and they will tell you how nice it is to be under Russian influence. Ignorance is not bliss in this case.

As to Romanians and Bulgarians it's true the found a new paradise called EU(being unemployed and sleeping under bridges and in parks in EU capitals or begging on the streets).Ignorance is indeed a bliss.
(Leonidas, 25 March 2014 10:25)

You are right, ignorance is a bliss...
As for the Turkish army, I'm quite positive they can wipe out Greece in a matter of days. If they really wanted that. But it's not the case. Not now.

"As to Romanians and Bulgarians it's true the found a new paradise called EU(being unemployed and sleeping under bridges and in parks in EU capitals or begging on the streets).Ignorance is indeed a bliss.
(Leonidas, 25 March 2014 10:25)"

Not everyone seems to agree with your assessment of EU membership, or more precisely, the EU economic model:

http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/danieljmitchell/2014/03/17/ukraines-biggest-problem-isnt-putin-its-putinonomics-n1810053

Leonidas

I am 100% with you when it comes to your views on the US. They are the biggest imperialist power on this planet and have resorted to, as you put it, bombing the living daylights out of weaker countries more times than I can remember and I absolutely do not take their side in any way.

I am just saying that while Russia is not as aggressive as the USA, I am not condoning their annexation of Crimea in the unilateral fashion that it was handled as the core principal is essentially the same: taking some part of the world into their orbit of influence and away from that of the polar opposite rival, and I simply do not take sides, even though personally I definitely prefer the Russians to the Americans (despite the extremely difficult history that Poles and Russians share).

The explanation is simple. The Ukrainians are hungry and poor. Their army is poorly equipped. They can only think of quiting their "fight" or even joining the Russian army. If Russia invades all Ukraine they would run away again. They wouldnt stop until Poland.
The previous Ukr. gov. served the Russia's interests. Yushchenko and Timoshenko made even bigger mistakes which also served Russia's interests. Ukraine is rotten deep inside. The Russians were happy to preserve this situation so they can grab the country easily when the right time comes. And the right time has come.
But it seems those politicians in Kiev are quite blind. They need MONEY now to pay their ARMY and to buy WEAPONS. A lot of money! Otherwise Ukraine will cease to exist.
It's a big shame for what happened. A shame for an army which was not able to defend its land. Military personnel are bound to military oath and this situation (of non-combat) is unthinkable. To abandon your unit without a fight... But this happened and it really means they are on the verge of collapse.
Yeah, Russia has historically rights in Crimea. But still, this affair looks like a horendous theft. Just the way Serbia was deprived of Kosovo province.
So... Mr. Putin will recover a lot from the lost glory of Soviet Union. This is his goal. And he will use all the Russian resources to achieve it, including military.
Ukraine will cease to exist. Sooner or later. Unfortunatelly.

Peter Sudyka,

I've followed the events in Ukraine closely and prior to referendum in Crimea Russia followed the rule book of international diplomacy.As Putin said in his statement the EU/US gang-despite the 21st February agreement for bringing the election date forward-carried out a coup by installing the right wing Timoshenko gangs in power.Do you think Putin was aggressive Peter? Why? For tackling, CIA/EU/NATO sponsored Nazi thugs and Islamic terrorists (ie. graduates from the CIA funded madras') who encroach on his nation's borders?If you want evidence of real aggression, try looking at the works of the 'Bankster Puppets' who 'lead' the Western World.
Bush (Senior and Junior) Cheney, Obama, Blair, Brown, Cameron etc. etc.etc.ad nauseum.

Leonidas

I am well aware that the US State Department and George Soros bankrolled individuals that sparked the Ukrainian uprising and I know very well that Russia in no way can compare to this type of manipulation, which is why I have said that I prefer Russia to America when it comes to international affairs, but knowing Ukrainian living standards, I believe that the lobby in the USA just threw fuel onto a fire already waiting to break out of control anyway.

To Nikolle:
WW2. 1941-1942. The way the Russians defended Sevastopol, the huge sacrifices during that battle. A lot of blood shed. I think this is the most important historical moment which linked Crimea to Russia. More than the previous ones.
It made Sevastopol a Russian city just the way Sankt Petersburg, Volgograd or Moscow are... Because it was covered with Russian blood. Blood of the soldiers and blood of the civilians defending the city against the Germans. This is the way the Russian commoners think. I can understand their reasons.
Some of them might say "Yeah, it's the same about Harkov. We fought 4 battles there...".
Or Kiev... "Only" 2 battles... One thing is certain: Ukraine's history is strongly related to Russia's history. I just hope they can live in peace as neighbours.
Of course, the Russians are masters in using their history for propaganda means... But history remains and it was truly written with blood.

to icj1:
The Rusians were not invaded and encircled in Berlin.
It is a big difference between those 2 battles (Sevastopol and Berlin).
But I guess you've already known that. In 1941-1942 the Russians were INVADED. In 1945 the Russians were the INVADERS. The invaded nations get morally rights for the land which they defend, even if they loose a battle or the war. With one condition: to fight for that land.
In 2014 the Ukrainians abandoned Crimea. I guess it's a big difference between the Russian stance in 1941 (towards the German invaders) and the Ukrainian stance in 2014 (towards the Russian invaders).
One more thing: it's quite impossible to claim a land if you don't fight for it and the next generations won't remember the heroes who died in order to take them as an example ... and so on. The next Ukrainian generation will learn that in 2014 their army simply didnt fight for Crimea. Why? Are they poorly equipped? Sure they are. In 1941, the Sevastopol defenders were also poorly equipped. Their air cover was 0. But still they fought the battle for many months. This is the key: they fought. Finally they lost the battle but they won the war in the end. Because they fought every battle. The victories came after many defeats. But perhaps the victories would have never come without those defeats...