Marko,
There are two major differences between Crimea and Kosovo:
1)Kosovo never applied to unite with Albania, but it continues as an independent country;
2)Ethnic Cleansing and War Crimes against civilians took place in Kosovo, as well documented evidence indicate.
Now you might make a case that eventually Kosovo will unite with Albania, or that Ethnic Cleaning and War Crimes would have happened in Crimea. But this is the where fact and fiction separate.
(Brandon, 21 March 2014 17:14)
Ethnic cleansing continues in Kosovo to this day. The Serbs are slowly being pushed out. Also Brandon, there was no ethnic cleansing in Kosovo. If there was, how do you explain the Albanaian population of Kosovo growing percentage wise in the 70's, 80's, and 90's. Up until the first NATO bombs fell, there was no ethnic cleansing. To suggest that in the middle of a 24/7 NATO bombing run the Serbs somehow were able to round up and expel 800,000-1 million Albanians...all with NATO forces over head conducting military operations and bombing any target in sight is quite ridiculous. Somehow the Serbs not only fought NATO, and the KLA, they also managed to round up a million people in a matter of days and expel them? All while being attacked and bombed by 500+ aircraft 24/7??? And NATO couldn't film this for evidence? Ethnic cleansing and genocide? No. Brutal fighting that lead to deaths on both sides? Yes.
A key difference in Crimea and Kosovo is that Crimea was PEACEFUL and doesn't have hundreds of thousands of people cleansed from their homes.
Kosovo had hundreds of thousands of non-Albanians who have been cleansed from their homes.
Crimea doesn't have ethnic violence and killing and doesn't prevent basic human rights such as the rights to freedom of movement.
In Kosovo you have a large amount of STOLEN LAND AND PROPERTY.
Also Crimea is not historically Ukrainian, whereas Kosovo was ESTABLISHED by Serbs. Kosovo is a Serbian name and its full name is Kosovo and Metohija.
The land is owned by Serbs and the Serbian church.
Crimea was annexed to Ukraine only 60 years ago by Kruschev. The people had no say in the annexation so it was a dictatorial move.
Kosovo has established PERMANENT ETHNIC CLEANSING of minorities.
Also it was Albanians who started the killings and employed terror. Kosovo is a REWARD for terrorism.
And many Albanians were in fact killed by the KLA. Albanian witnesses are killed to prevent them from testifying against KLA leaders.
There were 19 Albanians killed in the run-up to Ramush Haradinaj's trial until there was no one left to testify against.
In fact the entire KLA leadership was accused of killing their fellow Albanians.
Marko,
There are two major differences between Crimea and Kosovo:
1)Kosovo never applied to unite with Albania, but it continues as an independent country;
2)Ethnic Cleansing and War Crimes against civilians took place in Kosovo, as well documented evidence indicate.
Now you might make a case that eventually Kosovo will unite with Albania, or that Ethnic Cleaning and War Crimes would have happened in Crimea. But this is the where fact and fiction separate.
Comm the albanians started attacking the Serbian population three years before the war started. The attacks on police were let off for a large amount of time before intervention was called upon. I know that no matter what I say it won't appease you or any other albanian and that's ok, we're always going to have different opinions. I just ask that you at least recognise that the Russian population in Ukraine have not desecrated cemeteries, attacked churches, shot school children, murdered the elderly and much more. How long did you expect the Serbian people to sit there and be poked and prodded without snapping?
(Goran., 20 March 2014 22:16)
G - was it 1989 that the parliament of Kosovo was dissolved by Milo? Teachers and police were fired in '89. More military reservists were sent into Kosovo? For a territory that small it had more soldiers then the other republics per km2. And as we all know no police officer applied the law equally or as required by the law. Oppression of the people was rampant by Serb police/Serb paramilitary with no accountability. You go from majority Alb. police to majority Serb police force. Then you get 1.7mil people who get fed up not because the police changed ethnicity but because they did as they pleased and did not apply the law as they were supposed to with no regard to human rights after 1989. So then you get a few people who start attacking police stations because they didn't like the path of non violence by the elected leaders.
Yes, because the action was taken right on time and he didn't wait until a bloodshed happened, unlike in YU where regular troops and paramilitaries were looting Albanian , killing and driving out the members of the ethnic minority (Albanians). With the extremists and fascists belonging to the current Ukrainian government who voted for removing the Russian language from the official languages of Ukraine, I think this could have happened. That's how it all started in Kosovo, by banning the language and removing the autonomy.(Comm. Parrisson, 20. mart 2014 18:24)Comm the albanians started attacking the Serbian population three years before the war started. The attacks on police were let off for a large amount of time before intervention was called upon. I know that no matter what I say it won't appease you or any other albanian and that's ok, we're always going to have different opinions. I just ask that you at least recognise that the Russian population in Ukraine have not desecrated cemeteries, attacked churches, shot school children, murdered the elderly and much more. How long did you expect the Serbian people to sit there and be poked and prodded without snapping?
"The least I can say, as a human not a Serb, is that Putin's method has been completely peaceful."
(Goran., 20 March 2014 13:27)
Yes, because the action was taken right on time and he didn't wait until a bloodshed happened, unlike in YU where regular troops and paramilitaries were looting Albanian , killing and driving out the members of the ethnic minority (Albanians).
With the extremists and fascists belonging to the current Ukrainian government who voted for removing the Russian language from the official languages of Ukraine, I think this could have happened. That's how it all started in Kosovo, by banning the language and removing the autonomy.
"The situation for the Russians in Ukraine is more similar to the situation for Serbs in Croatia. Look at the struggles for Serbs to see their language respected there and the removal of Russian language as official after the neo-Nazi coup in Ukraine."
(Paul, 19 March 2014 21:36)
And where's the difference to Albanians in YU who got their language removed as official and status of autonomy taken away under the elected (national-) socialist government of Milosevic?
The road to hell was paved long ago by the West went it recognised Kosovo as independent. You can't apply the law when it suits you. What's good for the albanians in Kosovo is good for the Russians in Crimea.(Goran., 19 March 2014 13:55) You have a point, but this still doesn't justify a landgrab by Russia Putin's actions are fascist and have nothing to do humanitarian reasons as he proclaims.(T, 19. mart 2014 15:12)Dear T, you are absolutely correct! This is the most common sense based response I've seen on here! Any land grab that is done along ethnic lines is wrong! Kosovo should never have happened! It's independence is completely facist and had nothing to do with humanitarianism! The least I can say, as a human not a Serb, is that Putin's method has been completely peaceful. The Ukranians and Russians will not shoot at each other, this has been shown already. The troubling issue here is who is behind the multiple shootings of both Ukranians and Russians at the same time?
@U
Mate, You are wrong. I didn't fail to mention, as you put it, Bush, Obama, etc because this is not about them.
The point I tried to get accross is that Putin is a dangerous man because his methods are fascist.
Hold on a second, the Czech Republic has recognised "Kosovahhh"*. What is this guy on about?
(Zoran, 19 March 2014 20:20)
Could be that there is a difference between Self-Determination and Self-Preservation. Crimea is an act of Self-Determination as there was no threat to their way of life. Kosovo was an act of preservation as to have returned under Serbia even today would be eventual death to the Albanian population. The civilized world knows the difference.
It is of no significance that neo-Nazis brag that Putin represents their point of view. We know that they don't really care about any kind of moral or legal consistency between nations in Europe.
History is what guides us best in what is right and wrong in changing borders or self determination. Albanian claims on Kosovo are not legitimate despite their ability to breed their way to demographic dominance there. Russian claims on the Crimea have the same historical vitality that Serbian claims on Kosovo do. The only difference is that Russians have managed to maintain a demographic majority in Crimea.
The situation for the Russians in Ukraine is more similar to the situation for Serbs in Croatia. Look at the struggles for Serbs to see their language respected there and the removal of Russian language as official after the neo-Nazi coup in Ukraine.
We know that the UN used to protect the sovereignty and territorial integrity, but after Kosovo and the ICJ decision, membership in the UN is not a protection of a states right to exist.
There us going to be a new balance of power...
(marKo, 19 March 2014 16:27)
I don't see this as a bad thing. As a matter of fact it is great that UN is no longer a guarantor of states sovereignty. This guarantee should not be an automatic thing. There should be some stipulations. Sovereignty should be lost automatically the moment a state kills it's own citizens( civilians) by the thousands; and ethnically cleanses them. This is a very good deterrent to stop crimes against humanity throughout the world. This is a win-win for everyone as war criminals and thugs can no longer hide behind the concept of sovereignty while they continue their killing campaigns. It also automatically internationalizes any human rights violent abuses and makes people's voices heard and dictators think twice about their plans. After the presence of UN personnel and several stages of dialogue then on international level it can be decided on the sovereignty status; taking in consideration mostly the wishes of those who were persecuted. A good example is Syria. With all the crimes happening there it should automatically loose its sovereignty, the dictator deposed and an international presence govern it. At a later time it's status should be reviewed.
Serbs of Croatia started all this self-determination stuff. We Kosovars learned from them. Can't blame us just because we achieved our goals and they didn't.
@T, the fascism in ukraine's newly promoted through violent militaristic coup is in deed full of ukraine's neo-nazi, swastika flah waving, party members.
you speak of putin's intervention into crimea as fascism, yet omit bush's intervention in iraq: note russian's took control of crimean official buildings without a single shot fired, and america took iraq after 10's of thousands dead, and hundreds of thousands displaced, and they still aren't properly welcome. bush claimed he was "helping" iraqi's by forcing them into wanting what america was giving, and putin claims to be "helping" by giving the people what they seem to actually want. you also failed to mention obama's incurssions into pakistan in order to "chase" some ultimate evil in a foriegn country. this is srictly illegal, but its okay if america does it? you forgot to mention france's involvment in militaristically supporting a violent bloody coup in tripoli in order to promote a french/western friendly leadership. how is that any better than what russia is doing in ukraine?
the days of ideological "right/wrong" thinking is over. this is the day of "might is right and allowed to set precedents".
Self-determination have been around for a while, and it's described well. It's in Chapter 1 Article 1 of the UN Charter:
"To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;"
It's also confirmed in OSCE Helsinki Final Act - Article 8 recognizes "equall rights and self-determination of the peoples".
But, who are the "peoples" who have this right? "People" is a ethnic group authentic to any given state. For example, Scotish people are "authentic" ethnic group of the UK. Outside of UK they are national minority and have no right to self-determination.
And a good thing too, otherwise borders would change all the time. This was established by League of Nations in arbitration over Aaland Islands in 1921 when despite the fact that 90 percent of the islands' population was Swedish — and that they expressed an almost unanimous desire of being incorporated into Sweden — the League of Nations determined that the Aaland Islands should remain under Finnish sovereignty (it's still today part of Finland). Explanation was that Swedes outside Sweden are national minority without right to self-determination.
Just mentioning, not that law matters in our times...
This is a story that isn't finished. It will be years before things are revealed.
What we know about Lubomir Zaoralek is that he didn't voice such objections to the Czech recognition of Kosovo. He never renounced the actions of his government, he merely opposed the bombing in 1999. But it is a little late for him to speak about sovereignty and territorial integrity.
As far as the break up of Russia, we also know that the west supported the Chechens completely up until September the 11th, and partially up until Beslan. We also know that before the events of the Boston Marathon bombing, the American people never really paid attention to the Chechen radicals. We also know that Putin has dealt with the separatists handily and was able to host the Olympics near their former strongholds.
We know that Putin is following the American precedent. We know that the Serbian Government, and five EU Governments warned that Kosovo would be used as a precedent by others. What we don't know is that now that Russia is doing it too, will the west stop, or will the west and the Russians start gobbling up anyone that takes a side against them?
We know that the UN used to protect the sovereignty and territorial integrity, but after Kosovo and the ICJ decision, membership in the UN is not a protection of a states right to exist.
There us going to be a new balance of power in the world and I think it is best for small nations to keep their heads down and remain neutral.
The road to hell was paved long ago by the West went it recognised Kosovo as independent. You can't apply the law when it suits you. What's good for the albanians in Kosovo is good for the Russians in Crimea.
(Goran., 19 March 2014 13:55)
You have a point, but this still doesn't justify a landgrab by Russia Putin's actions are fascist and have nothing to do humanitarian reasons as he proclaims.
Zaoralek is right of course. Putin consistently refers to those that stood up against Russia's corrupt puppet, Yanokovich, as Nazis and anti semites.
The only one currently acting as a Nazi is Putin himself.
Nazis embrace fascism as their ideology.
Fascist ideology consistently invokes the primacy of the state.
Leaders such as Putin, like Benito Mussolini in Italy and Adolf Hitler in Germany embody the state and claim indisputable power.
Fascism borrowed theories and terminology from socialism but replaced socialism's focus on class conflict with a focus on conflict between nations and races, which sems to be exactly Putin's objective.
Putin is a dangerous man and those that hold him in high regard should remember why their parents and grand parents were fighting in WWII, so that we, their children could and can enjoy freedom.
For the sake of OUR children lets NOT turn back the clock!
The road to hell was paved long ago by the West went it recognised Kosovo as independent. You can't apply the law when it suits you. What's good for the albanians in Kosovo is good for the Russians in Crimea.
The road to hell was paved long ago by the West went it recognised Kosovo as independent. You can't apply the law when it suits you. What's good for the albanians in Kosovo is good for the Russians in Crimea.
Zaoralek is right of course. Putin consistently refers to those that stood up against Russia's corrupt puppet, Yanokovich, as Nazis and anti semites.
The only one currently acting as a Nazi is Putin himself.
Nazis embrace fascism as their ideology.
Fascist ideology consistently invokes the primacy of the state.
Leaders such as Putin, like Benito Mussolini in Italy and Adolf Hitler in Germany embody the state and claim indisputable power.
Fascism borrowed theories and terminology from socialism but replaced socialism's focus on class conflict with a focus on conflict between nations and races, which sems to be exactly Putin's objective.
Putin is a dangerous man and those that hold him in high regard should remember why their parents and grand parents were fighting in WWII, so that we, their children could and can enjoy freedom.
For the sake of OUR children lets NOT turn back the clock!
Serbs of Croatia started all this self-determination stuff. We Kosovars learned from them. Can't blame us just because we achieved our goals and they didn't.
The road to hell was paved long ago by the West went it recognised Kosovo as independent. You can't apply the law when it suits you. What's good for the albanians in Kosovo is good for the Russians in Crimea.
(Goran., 19 March 2014 13:55)
You have a point, but this still doesn't justify a landgrab by Russia Putin's actions are fascist and have nothing to do humanitarian reasons as he proclaims.
This is a story that isn't finished. It will be years before things are revealed.
What we know about Lubomir Zaoralek is that he didn't voice such objections to the Czech recognition of Kosovo. He never renounced the actions of his government, he merely opposed the bombing in 1999. But it is a little late for him to speak about sovereignty and territorial integrity.
As far as the break up of Russia, we also know that the west supported the Chechens completely up until September the 11th, and partially up until Beslan. We also know that before the events of the Boston Marathon bombing, the American people never really paid attention to the Chechen radicals. We also know that Putin has dealt with the separatists handily and was able to host the Olympics near their former strongholds.
We know that Putin is following the American precedent. We know that the Serbian Government, and five EU Governments warned that Kosovo would be used as a precedent by others. What we don't know is that now that Russia is doing it too, will the west stop, or will the west and the Russians start gobbling up anyone that takes a side against them?
We know that the UN used to protect the sovereignty and territorial integrity, but after Kosovo and the ICJ decision, membership in the UN is not a protection of a states right to exist.
There us going to be a new balance of power in the world and I think it is best for small nations to keep their heads down and remain neutral.
Hold on a second, the Czech Republic has recognised "Kosovahhh"*. What is this guy on about?
(Zoran, 19 March 2014 20:20)
Could be that there is a difference between Self-Determination and Self-Preservation. Crimea is an act of Self-Determination as there was no threat to their way of life. Kosovo was an act of preservation as to have returned under Serbia even today would be eventual death to the Albanian population. The civilized world knows the difference.
It is of no significance that neo-Nazis brag that Putin represents their point of view. We know that they don't really care about any kind of moral or legal consistency between nations in Europe.
History is what guides us best in what is right and wrong in changing borders or self determination. Albanian claims on Kosovo are not legitimate despite their ability to breed their way to demographic dominance there. Russian claims on the Crimea have the same historical vitality that Serbian claims on Kosovo do. The only difference is that Russians have managed to maintain a demographic majority in Crimea.
The situation for the Russians in Ukraine is more similar to the situation for Serbs in Croatia. Look at the struggles for Serbs to see their language respected there and the removal of Russian language as official after the neo-Nazi coup in Ukraine.
We know that the UN used to protect the sovereignty and territorial integrity, but after Kosovo and the ICJ decision, membership in the UN is not a protection of a states right to exist.
There us going to be a new balance of power...
(marKo, 19 March 2014 16:27)
I don't see this as a bad thing. As a matter of fact it is great that UN is no longer a guarantor of states sovereignty. This guarantee should not be an automatic thing. There should be some stipulations. Sovereignty should be lost automatically the moment a state kills it's own citizens( civilians) by the thousands; and ethnically cleanses them. This is a very good deterrent to stop crimes against humanity throughout the world. This is a win-win for everyone as war criminals and thugs can no longer hide behind the concept of sovereignty while they continue their killing campaigns. It also automatically internationalizes any human rights violent abuses and makes people's voices heard and dictators think twice about their plans. After the presence of UN personnel and several stages of dialogue then on international level it can be decided on the sovereignty status; taking in consideration mostly the wishes of those who were persecuted. A good example is Syria. With all the crimes happening there it should automatically loose its sovereignty, the dictator deposed and an international presence govern it. At a later time it's status should be reviewed.
Comm the albanians started attacking the Serbian population three years before the war started. The attacks on police were let off for a large amount of time before intervention was called upon. I know that no matter what I say it won't appease you or any other albanian and that's ok, we're always going to have different opinions. I just ask that you at least recognise that the Russian population in Ukraine have not desecrated cemeteries, attacked churches, shot school children, murdered the elderly and much more. How long did you expect the Serbian people to sit there and be poked and prodded without snapping?
(Goran., 20 March 2014 22:16)
G - was it 1989 that the parliament of Kosovo was dissolved by Milo? Teachers and police were fired in '89. More military reservists were sent into Kosovo? For a territory that small it had more soldiers then the other republics per km2. And as we all know no police officer applied the law equally or as required by the law. Oppression of the people was rampant by Serb police/Serb paramilitary with no accountability. You go from majority Alb. police to majority Serb police force. Then you get 1.7mil people who get fed up not because the police changed ethnicity but because they did as they pleased and did not apply the law as they were supposed to with no regard to human rights after 1989. So then you get a few people who start attacking police stations because they didn't like the path of non violence by the elected leaders.
Marko,
There are two major differences between Crimea and Kosovo:
1)Kosovo never applied to unite with Albania, but it continues as an independent country;
2)Ethnic Cleansing and War Crimes against civilians took place in Kosovo, as well documented evidence indicate.
Now you might make a case that eventually Kosovo will unite with Albania, or that Ethnic Cleaning and War Crimes would have happened in Crimea. But this is the where fact and fiction separate.
@T, the fascism in ukraine's newly promoted through violent militaristic coup is in deed full of ukraine's neo-nazi, swastika flah waving, party members.
you speak of putin's intervention into crimea as fascism, yet omit bush's intervention in iraq: note russian's took control of crimean official buildings without a single shot fired, and america took iraq after 10's of thousands dead, and hundreds of thousands displaced, and they still aren't properly welcome. bush claimed he was "helping" iraqi's by forcing them into wanting what america was giving, and putin claims to be "helping" by giving the people what they seem to actually want. you also failed to mention obama's incurssions into pakistan in order to "chase" some ultimate evil in a foriegn country. this is srictly illegal, but its okay if america does it? you forgot to mention france's involvment in militaristically supporting a violent bloody coup in tripoli in order to promote a french/western friendly leadership. how is that any better than what russia is doing in ukraine?
the days of ideological "right/wrong" thinking is over. this is the day of "might is right and allowed to set precedents".
The road to hell was paved long ago by the West went it recognised Kosovo as independent. You can't apply the law when it suits you. What's good for the albanians in Kosovo is good for the Russians in Crimea.(Goran., 19 March 2014 13:55) You have a point, but this still doesn't justify a landgrab by Russia Putin's actions are fascist and have nothing to do humanitarian reasons as he proclaims.(T, 19. mart 2014 15:12)Dear T, you are absolutely correct! This is the most common sense based response I've seen on here! Any land grab that is done along ethnic lines is wrong! Kosovo should never have happened! It's independence is completely facist and had nothing to do with humanitarianism! The least I can say, as a human not a Serb, is that Putin's method has been completely peaceful. The Ukranians and Russians will not shoot at each other, this has been shown already. The troubling issue here is who is behind the multiple shootings of both Ukranians and Russians at the same time?
@U
Mate, You are wrong. I didn't fail to mention, as you put it, Bush, Obama, etc because this is not about them.
The point I tried to get accross is that Putin is a dangerous man because his methods are fascist.
"The situation for the Russians in Ukraine is more similar to the situation for Serbs in Croatia. Look at the struggles for Serbs to see their language respected there and the removal of Russian language as official after the neo-Nazi coup in Ukraine."
(Paul, 19 March 2014 21:36)
And where's the difference to Albanians in YU who got their language removed as official and status of autonomy taken away under the elected (national-) socialist government of Milosevic?
Self-determination have been around for a while, and it's described well. It's in Chapter 1 Article 1 of the UN Charter:
"To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;"
It's also confirmed in OSCE Helsinki Final Act - Article 8 recognizes "equall rights and self-determination of the peoples".
But, who are the "peoples" who have this right? "People" is a ethnic group authentic to any given state. For example, Scotish people are "authentic" ethnic group of the UK. Outside of UK they are national minority and have no right to self-determination.
And a good thing too, otherwise borders would change all the time. This was established by League of Nations in arbitration over Aaland Islands in 1921 when despite the fact that 90 percent of the islands' population was Swedish — and that they expressed an almost unanimous desire of being incorporated into Sweden — the League of Nations determined that the Aaland Islands should remain under Finnish sovereignty (it's still today part of Finland). Explanation was that Swedes outside Sweden are national minority without right to self-determination.
Just mentioning, not that law matters in our times...
Yes, because the action was taken right on time and he didn't wait until a bloodshed happened, unlike in YU where regular troops and paramilitaries were looting Albanian , killing and driving out the members of the ethnic minority (Albanians). With the extremists and fascists belonging to the current Ukrainian government who voted for removing the Russian language from the official languages of Ukraine, I think this could have happened. That's how it all started in Kosovo, by banning the language and removing the autonomy.(Comm. Parrisson, 20. mart 2014 18:24)Comm the albanians started attacking the Serbian population three years before the war started. The attacks on police were let off for a large amount of time before intervention was called upon. I know that no matter what I say it won't appease you or any other albanian and that's ok, we're always going to have different opinions. I just ask that you at least recognise that the Russian population in Ukraine have not desecrated cemeteries, attacked churches, shot school children, murdered the elderly and much more. How long did you expect the Serbian people to sit there and be poked and prodded without snapping?
"The least I can say, as a human not a Serb, is that Putin's method has been completely peaceful."
(Goran., 20 March 2014 13:27)
Yes, because the action was taken right on time and he didn't wait until a bloodshed happened, unlike in YU where regular troops and paramilitaries were looting Albanian , killing and driving out the members of the ethnic minority (Albanians).
With the extremists and fascists belonging to the current Ukrainian government who voted for removing the Russian language from the official languages of Ukraine, I think this could have happened. That's how it all started in Kosovo, by banning the language and removing the autonomy.
A key difference in Crimea and Kosovo is that Crimea was PEACEFUL and doesn't have hundreds of thousands of people cleansed from their homes.
Kosovo had hundreds of thousands of non-Albanians who have been cleansed from their homes.
Crimea doesn't have ethnic violence and killing and doesn't prevent basic human rights such as the rights to freedom of movement.
In Kosovo you have a large amount of STOLEN LAND AND PROPERTY.
Also Crimea is not historically Ukrainian, whereas Kosovo was ESTABLISHED by Serbs. Kosovo is a Serbian name and its full name is Kosovo and Metohija.
The land is owned by Serbs and the Serbian church.
Crimea was annexed to Ukraine only 60 years ago by Kruschev. The people had no say in the annexation so it was a dictatorial move.
Kosovo has established PERMANENT ETHNIC CLEANSING of minorities.
Also it was Albanians who started the killings and employed terror. Kosovo is a REWARD for terrorism.
And many Albanians were in fact killed by the KLA. Albanian witnesses are killed to prevent them from testifying against KLA leaders.
There were 19 Albanians killed in the run-up to Ramush Haradinaj's trial until there was no one left to testify against.
In fact the entire KLA leadership was accused of killing their fellow Albanians.
Marko,
There are two major differences between Crimea and Kosovo:
1)Kosovo never applied to unite with Albania, but it continues as an independent country;
2)Ethnic Cleansing and War Crimes against civilians took place in Kosovo, as well documented evidence indicate.
Now you might make a case that eventually Kosovo will unite with Albania, or that Ethnic Cleaning and War Crimes would have happened in Crimea. But this is the where fact and fiction separate.
(Brandon, 21 March 2014 17:14)
Ethnic cleansing continues in Kosovo to this day. The Serbs are slowly being pushed out. Also Brandon, there was no ethnic cleansing in Kosovo. If there was, how do you explain the Albanaian population of Kosovo growing percentage wise in the 70's, 80's, and 90's. Up until the first NATO bombs fell, there was no ethnic cleansing. To suggest that in the middle of a 24/7 NATO bombing run the Serbs somehow were able to round up and expel 800,000-1 million Albanians...all with NATO forces over head conducting military operations and bombing any target in sight is quite ridiculous. Somehow the Serbs not only fought NATO, and the KLA, they also managed to round up a million people in a matter of days and expel them? All while being attacked and bombed by 500+ aircraft 24/7??? And NATO couldn't film this for evidence? Ethnic cleansing and genocide? No. Brutal fighting that lead to deaths on both sides? Yes.
Zaoralek is right of course. Putin consistently refers to those that stood up against Russia's corrupt puppet, Yanokovich, as Nazis and anti semites.
The only one currently acting as a Nazi is Putin himself.
Nazis embrace fascism as their ideology.
Fascist ideology consistently invokes the primacy of the state.
Leaders such as Putin, like Benito Mussolini in Italy and Adolf Hitler in Germany embody the state and claim indisputable power.
Fascism borrowed theories and terminology from socialism but replaced socialism's focus on class conflict with a focus on conflict between nations and races, which sems to be exactly Putin's objective.
Putin is a dangerous man and those that hold him in high regard should remember why their parents and grand parents were fighting in WWII, so that we, their children could and can enjoy freedom.
For the sake of OUR children lets NOT turn back the clock!
Serbs of Croatia started all this self-determination stuff. We Kosovars learned from them. Can't blame us just because we achieved our goals and they didn't.
The road to hell was paved long ago by the West went it recognised Kosovo as independent. You can't apply the law when it suits you. What's good for the albanians in Kosovo is good for the Russians in Crimea.
The road to hell was paved long ago by the West went it recognised Kosovo as independent. You can't apply the law when it suits you. What's good for the albanians in Kosovo is good for the Russians in Crimea.
(Goran., 19 March 2014 13:55)
You have a point, but this still doesn't justify a landgrab by Russia Putin's actions are fascist and have nothing to do humanitarian reasons as he proclaims.
It is of no significance that neo-Nazis brag that Putin represents their point of view. We know that they don't really care about any kind of moral or legal consistency between nations in Europe.
History is what guides us best in what is right and wrong in changing borders or self determination. Albanian claims on Kosovo are not legitimate despite their ability to breed their way to demographic dominance there. Russian claims on the Crimea have the same historical vitality that Serbian claims on Kosovo do. The only difference is that Russians have managed to maintain a demographic majority in Crimea.
The situation for the Russians in Ukraine is more similar to the situation for Serbs in Croatia. Look at the struggles for Serbs to see their language respected there and the removal of Russian language as official after the neo-Nazi coup in Ukraine.
Hold on a second, the Czech Republic has recognised "Kosovahhh"*. What is this guy on about?
(Zoran, 19 March 2014 20:20)
Could be that there is a difference between Self-Determination and Self-Preservation. Crimea is an act of Self-Determination as there was no threat to their way of life. Kosovo was an act of preservation as to have returned under Serbia even today would be eventual death to the Albanian population. The civilized world knows the difference.
This is a story that isn't finished. It will be years before things are revealed.
What we know about Lubomir Zaoralek is that he didn't voice such objections to the Czech recognition of Kosovo. He never renounced the actions of his government, he merely opposed the bombing in 1999. But it is a little late for him to speak about sovereignty and territorial integrity.
As far as the break up of Russia, we also know that the west supported the Chechens completely up until September the 11th, and partially up until Beslan. We also know that before the events of the Boston Marathon bombing, the American people never really paid attention to the Chechen radicals. We also know that Putin has dealt with the separatists handily and was able to host the Olympics near their former strongholds.
We know that Putin is following the American precedent. We know that the Serbian Government, and five EU Governments warned that Kosovo would be used as a precedent by others. What we don't know is that now that Russia is doing it too, will the west stop, or will the west and the Russians start gobbling up anyone that takes a side against them?
We know that the UN used to protect the sovereignty and territorial integrity, but after Kosovo and the ICJ decision, membership in the UN is not a protection of a states right to exist.
There us going to be a new balance of power in the world and I think it is best for small nations to keep their heads down and remain neutral.
@T, the fascism in ukraine's newly promoted through violent militaristic coup is in deed full of ukraine's neo-nazi, swastika flah waving, party members.
you speak of putin's intervention into crimea as fascism, yet omit bush's intervention in iraq: note russian's took control of crimean official buildings without a single shot fired, and america took iraq after 10's of thousands dead, and hundreds of thousands displaced, and they still aren't properly welcome. bush claimed he was "helping" iraqi's by forcing them into wanting what america was giving, and putin claims to be "helping" by giving the people what they seem to actually want. you also failed to mention obama's incurssions into pakistan in order to "chase" some ultimate evil in a foriegn country. this is srictly illegal, but its okay if america does it? you forgot to mention france's involvment in militaristically supporting a violent bloody coup in tripoli in order to promote a french/western friendly leadership. how is that any better than what russia is doing in ukraine?
the days of ideological "right/wrong" thinking is over. this is the day of "might is right and allowed to set precedents".
Yes, because the action was taken right on time and he didn't wait until a bloodshed happened, unlike in YU where regular troops and paramilitaries were looting Albanian , killing and driving out the members of the ethnic minority (Albanians). With the extremists and fascists belonging to the current Ukrainian government who voted for removing the Russian language from the official languages of Ukraine, I think this could have happened. That's how it all started in Kosovo, by banning the language and removing the autonomy.(Comm. Parrisson, 20. mart 2014 18:24)Comm the albanians started attacking the Serbian population three years before the war started. The attacks on police were let off for a large amount of time before intervention was called upon. I know that no matter what I say it won't appease you or any other albanian and that's ok, we're always going to have different opinions. I just ask that you at least recognise that the Russian population in Ukraine have not desecrated cemeteries, attacked churches, shot school children, murdered the elderly and much more. How long did you expect the Serbian people to sit there and be poked and prodded without snapping?
The road to hell was paved long ago by the West went it recognised Kosovo as independent. You can't apply the law when it suits you. What's good for the albanians in Kosovo is good for the Russians in Crimea.(Goran., 19 March 2014 13:55) You have a point, but this still doesn't justify a landgrab by Russia Putin's actions are fascist and have nothing to do humanitarian reasons as he proclaims.(T, 19. mart 2014 15:12)Dear T, you are absolutely correct! This is the most common sense based response I've seen on here! Any land grab that is done along ethnic lines is wrong! Kosovo should never have happened! It's independence is completely facist and had nothing to do with humanitarianism! The least I can say, as a human not a Serb, is that Putin's method has been completely peaceful. The Ukranians and Russians will not shoot at each other, this has been shown already. The troubling issue here is who is behind the multiple shootings of both Ukranians and Russians at the same time?
"The situation for the Russians in Ukraine is more similar to the situation for Serbs in Croatia. Look at the struggles for Serbs to see their language respected there and the removal of Russian language as official after the neo-Nazi coup in Ukraine."
(Paul, 19 March 2014 21:36)
And where's the difference to Albanians in YU who got their language removed as official and status of autonomy taken away under the elected (national-) socialist government of Milosevic?
Marko,
There are two major differences between Crimea and Kosovo:
1)Kosovo never applied to unite with Albania, but it continues as an independent country;
2)Ethnic Cleansing and War Crimes against civilians took place in Kosovo, as well documented evidence indicate.
Now you might make a case that eventually Kosovo will unite with Albania, or that Ethnic Cleaning and War Crimes would have happened in Crimea. But this is the where fact and fiction separate.
(Brandon, 21 March 2014 17:14)
Ethnic cleansing continues in Kosovo to this day. The Serbs are slowly being pushed out. Also Brandon, there was no ethnic cleansing in Kosovo. If there was, how do you explain the Albanaian population of Kosovo growing percentage wise in the 70's, 80's, and 90's. Up until the first NATO bombs fell, there was no ethnic cleansing. To suggest that in the middle of a 24/7 NATO bombing run the Serbs somehow were able to round up and expel 800,000-1 million Albanians...all with NATO forces over head conducting military operations and bombing any target in sight is quite ridiculous. Somehow the Serbs not only fought NATO, and the KLA, they also managed to round up a million people in a matter of days and expel them? All while being attacked and bombed by 500+ aircraft 24/7??? And NATO couldn't film this for evidence? Ethnic cleansing and genocide? No. Brutal fighting that lead to deaths on both sides? Yes.
Self-determination have been around for a while, and it's described well. It's in Chapter 1 Article 1 of the UN Charter:
"To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;"
It's also confirmed in OSCE Helsinki Final Act - Article 8 recognizes "equall rights and self-determination of the peoples".
But, who are the "peoples" who have this right? "People" is a ethnic group authentic to any given state. For example, Scotish people are "authentic" ethnic group of the UK. Outside of UK they are national minority and have no right to self-determination.
And a good thing too, otherwise borders would change all the time. This was established by League of Nations in arbitration over Aaland Islands in 1921 when despite the fact that 90 percent of the islands' population was Swedish — and that they expressed an almost unanimous desire of being incorporated into Sweden — the League of Nations determined that the Aaland Islands should remain under Finnish sovereignty (it's still today part of Finland). Explanation was that Swedes outside Sweden are national minority without right to self-determination.
Just mentioning, not that law matters in our times...
We know that the UN used to protect the sovereignty and territorial integrity, but after Kosovo and the ICJ decision, membership in the UN is not a protection of a states right to exist.
There us going to be a new balance of power...
(marKo, 19 March 2014 16:27)
I don't see this as a bad thing. As a matter of fact it is great that UN is no longer a guarantor of states sovereignty. This guarantee should not be an automatic thing. There should be some stipulations. Sovereignty should be lost automatically the moment a state kills it's own citizens( civilians) by the thousands; and ethnically cleanses them. This is a very good deterrent to stop crimes against humanity throughout the world. This is a win-win for everyone as war criminals and thugs can no longer hide behind the concept of sovereignty while they continue their killing campaigns. It also automatically internationalizes any human rights violent abuses and makes people's voices heard and dictators think twice about their plans. After the presence of UN personnel and several stages of dialogue then on international level it can be decided on the sovereignty status; taking in consideration mostly the wishes of those who were persecuted. A good example is Syria. With all the crimes happening there it should automatically loose its sovereignty, the dictator deposed and an international presence govern it. At a later time it's status should be reviewed.
@U
Mate, You are wrong. I didn't fail to mention, as you put it, Bush, Obama, etc because this is not about them.
The point I tried to get accross is that Putin is a dangerous man because his methods are fascist.
"The least I can say, as a human not a Serb, is that Putin's method has been completely peaceful."
(Goran., 20 March 2014 13:27)
Yes, because the action was taken right on time and he didn't wait until a bloodshed happened, unlike in YU where regular troops and paramilitaries were looting Albanian , killing and driving out the members of the ethnic minority (Albanians).
With the extremists and fascists belonging to the current Ukrainian government who voted for removing the Russian language from the official languages of Ukraine, I think this could have happened. That's how it all started in Kosovo, by banning the language and removing the autonomy.
Marko,
There are two major differences between Crimea and Kosovo:
1)Kosovo never applied to unite with Albania, but it continues as an independent country;
2)Ethnic Cleansing and War Crimes against civilians took place in Kosovo, as well documented evidence indicate.
Now you might make a case that eventually Kosovo will unite with Albania, or that Ethnic Cleaning and War Crimes would have happened in Crimea. But this is the where fact and fiction separate.
Comm the albanians started attacking the Serbian population three years before the war started. The attacks on police were let off for a large amount of time before intervention was called upon. I know that no matter what I say it won't appease you or any other albanian and that's ok, we're always going to have different opinions. I just ask that you at least recognise that the Russian population in Ukraine have not desecrated cemeteries, attacked churches, shot school children, murdered the elderly and much more. How long did you expect the Serbian people to sit there and be poked and prodded without snapping?
(Goran., 20 March 2014 22:16)
G - was it 1989 that the parliament of Kosovo was dissolved by Milo? Teachers and police were fired in '89. More military reservists were sent into Kosovo? For a territory that small it had more soldiers then the other republics per km2. And as we all know no police officer applied the law equally or as required by the law. Oppression of the people was rampant by Serb police/Serb paramilitary with no accountability. You go from majority Alb. police to majority Serb police force. Then you get 1.7mil people who get fed up not because the police changed ethnicity but because they did as they pleased and did not apply the law as they were supposed to with no regard to human rights after 1989. So then you get a few people who start attacking police stations because they didn't like the path of non violence by the elected leaders.
A key difference in Crimea and Kosovo is that Crimea was PEACEFUL and doesn't have hundreds of thousands of people cleansed from their homes.
Kosovo had hundreds of thousands of non-Albanians who have been cleansed from their homes.
Crimea doesn't have ethnic violence and killing and doesn't prevent basic human rights such as the rights to freedom of movement.
In Kosovo you have a large amount of STOLEN LAND AND PROPERTY.
Also Crimea is not historically Ukrainian, whereas Kosovo was ESTABLISHED by Serbs. Kosovo is a Serbian name and its full name is Kosovo and Metohija.
The land is owned by Serbs and the Serbian church.
Crimea was annexed to Ukraine only 60 years ago by Kruschev. The people had no say in the annexation so it was a dictatorial move.
Kosovo has established PERMANENT ETHNIC CLEANSING of minorities.
Also it was Albanians who started the killings and employed terror. Kosovo is a REWARD for terrorism.
And many Albanians were in fact killed by the KLA. Albanian witnesses are killed to prevent them from testifying against KLA leaders.
There were 19 Albanians killed in the run-up to Ramush Haradinaj's trial until there was no one left to testify against.
In fact the entire KLA leadership was accused of killing their fellow Albanians.
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