96.76 percent of Crimeans vote in favor of joining Russia

U.S. President Barack Obama had a telephone conversation with Russian President Vladimir Putin, and according to reports, told him that he and his European allies "are willing to punish Moscow for violating the territorial integrity of Ukraine."

Does he really know what international law means?He's overseen worldwide surveillance, detention without charge, the concentration camp at Guantanamo Bay,rendition and torture, comprehensive and indiscriminate use of weapons of mass destruction, bombing of foreign countries either directly or with drones, and the invasion of sovereign states and slaughter of populations who unable to defend themselves.

I would say well done Crimea with your referendum and in the style of US diplomacy(Victoria Nuland) should say F**k the US & F**k the EU.

A pro-EU meeting in the west of Ukraine. Slogans :

- Moskals (=Russians) to guillotine !
- The one who’s not jumping is a Moskal !
- We want to EU
- One Fatherland – one language !

http://www.km.ru/tv/shkolnaya-lineika-v-kieve-moskal

These Catholic Hitlerjugends have little to do with the Russian world. They poison their children’s hearts condemning them to poverty and neglect. Disappointment will come very soon. No one needs such zombies in EU or elsewhere. Neither are them the Ukrainians as well. Most Ukrainians are different and Russia will not leave them under the Nazi. EU will fail to always closing their eyes at the UKRAINE UBER ALLES in the heart of Europe. I hope Russo phobia is a smaller feeling than instinct of self-preservation.

Ian,

On the contrary,with "Turkish Cypriots" a minority to mainland settlers in their"own country" and tens of thousands of Turkish troops comfortably established as their "protectors" keeping the the bad Greeks away,it is obvious that reunification is not an option,no matter what is written to the contrary.One solution that I see is return of land in return of recognition by the South and then have the "Turkish Cypriots" chart their own future.Personally, I have long concluded that Christians and Muslims cannot live together in harmony.The basic mistake the Greek Cypriots make in their approach to reunification talks is their belief that "Turkish Cypriots" are empowered and can decide independently of Turkey and Turks will accept anything less other than two nations.The Turkish approach has always been :what was grabbed is ours and what is left to you we share.Hence,the present start of the new talks which are primarily aimed at Cyprus energy deposits discovered in the South and how the Turks can benefit from them.

March on brothers and sisters.God bless you. God bless Vladimir Putin.

I would say well done Crimea with your referendum and in the style of US diplomacy(Victoria Nuland) should say F**k the US & F**k the EU.
(Leonidas, 17 March 2014 10:04)

You do realise that what Russia has done in Crimea is an exact mirror of what Turkey has done in Northern Cyprus. However, I bet you're not as supportive of the Turks in Northern Cyprus as you are of the Russians in Crimea because you're a nationalist hypocrite.

The Tatars are only about 230000in Crimea.If they don't want to live in Crimea they can all move to Bradford UK ,there are plenty of muslims and mosques in the area to satisfy their needs.

Thanks for proving my point, Russia is reading from the same script which Turkey used in Northern Cyprus.

(Ian, UK, 17 March 2014 14:28)

Your point was to prove that I am a hypocrite,like yourself,who applies different logic to similar situations.The Crimean people vote in a citizens' referendum was to correct Khrushchev's dictatorial fait accompli of 1954.A great day for self-determination of the Crimean people.

This Vote for Democracy and for Self Determination that occurred in Crimea with a population of approximately 2,000,000 is slightly less, than the result for the Falkland Islands Sovereignty Referendum of 2013, which has a population of approximately 3,000 People on the other side of the world to Britain.

Argentina acquired the Falklands from Spain, upon achieving Independence from Spain in 1816, and that Britain Illegally Occupied them in 1833; whereas, Crimea has been Russian Land, and was included in Ukraine Only for easier Administration during the USSR.

I do not know if the British Military Personal who were stationed in the Falklands Voted in that Sovereignty Referendum at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_referendum,_2013 .

"96.7 percent of Crimeans vote in favor of joining Russia"

Really? Many ballot papers were already filled in three days ago, two days before the voting even started. There were massive piles of completed ballot papers all with a tick in favour of joining Russia. No wonder the Russian army wouldn't allow the OSCE into Crimea. This is why officially there was a turnout of over 80%, despite a massive boycott.

It is a massive sham, just like the protests in Eastern Ukraine. There are buses arriving daily in Kharkiv and Donesk from Russia filled with "Protestors". Its a joke.

At least the ethnic Russians of Crimea can live in paradise like Abkhazia and South Ossetia. What was it Russia Today said that Crimea will become? The new Singapore LOL!

It is the Tatars and Ukrainians of Crimea I feel sorry for. At least with Russia's occupation of Crimea, there is no chance in hell of the Party of Regions winning the election in May.

This is a war for Europe and the US has come into this ill prepared and not really able to do much except expelling hot air about imposing some very tough sanctions, whatever that means. However, we all know that Washington is “pointing a gun’ that they all know is empty. Lets no joke about this, if the US could, they would have used NATO to its fullest force, but it can’t as most NATO members are war-weary from Afghanistan, there is no money in EU budgets for any military misadventures and this is a country well armed and able to defend itself as we have read about downing US drones over Crimea.
If Washington was serious they would impose trade sanctions, but remember Russia can hurt the US even more and at this stage of a fragile US economy it will not take much to plunge it into depths not seen before.
You get very few academics today that are just that, but Prof Armin Saikal, Australian National University, is just that and he puts the vulnerability of Russia over the Crimean issue into perspective, especially in the penultimate paragraph, last couple of lines.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-07/saikal-putins-show-of-power-pays-off/5303992

To be honest I'm not actually opposed to Crimea being independent or joining with Russia, I just don't agree with the way Russia enforced it via military occupation and lies, ie like Nazi Germany and the Sudetenland. If it had truly occurred naturally by the will of the people, I too would have championed it; but I cannot champion a military annexation dressed with a rushed undemocratic sham referendum organised by a puppet Government and the Russian Military.
(Ian, UK, 17 March 2014 15:25)

WHAT ABOUT NATOS ILLEGAL BOMBING OF SERBIA OR TRYING TO BREAK INTERNATIONAL LAW AND RES.1244?! ONE RULE FOR WEST ANOTHER FOR REST!

Oh boo hoo Ian UK. You certainly talked out of the other end of your bum when Kosovo voted for independence which was also boycotted by Serbs. Personally, I don't think either referendum should have happened. However, you championed one cause and then defy logic for the other. Spew on with your bogus reasons why this is different and how you feel sorry for ______ fill in the blank.

A victory for the Russians but was the referendum democratic? NO.
How can you have 97% for Russian occupation and 3% not in favour when, just for instance, 13% of the population are Tartars vehemently oppposed to the Russians. Also how is it possible to hold such a referendum when Russian troops are on the ground and any political opposition was squashed.
At the same time the Russians were opposed to the unilateral declaration of independence by Kosovo while the vote for annexation of the Krim to Russia is no different.
This can only be described as a land grab and now that Putin has gotten away with it where will it stop.

No thanks id rather not meet someone who has anti Serbian feelings in the grounds of our sacred church... Funny how you say you want people who committed crimes against Serbs to be punished yet you are against Serbian Kosovo and other areas that a Serb dominated returning to rule of Serbdom and also love to take cheap shots at Serbs and Serbia does a favor be who you truly are instead of trying to act like a nicey, nicey can see straight through it!

You do realise that what Russia has done in Crimea is an exact mirror of what Turkey has done in Northern Cyprus. However, I bet you're not as supportive of the Turks in Northern Cyprus as you are of the Russians in Crimea because you're a nationalist hypocrite.
(Ian, UK, 17 March 2014 12:48)

LOL oh Ian, your argument would be so more convincing if you looked at Kosovo in the same way. Sadly you don't and thus your position is just as subjective as those you argue with on the internet. I assume you spent the weekend in Crimea getting the information that you do. I assume you know 100% that these elections were a sham, unlike the clear and straightforward elections held a few months prior in the Falklands over a similar issue.

I assume you're just hiding the fact that you did something this weekend other than hover over your computer for you to be this sure :)

I just don't agree with the way Russia enforced it via military occupation and lies, ie like Nazi Germany and the Sudetenland. If it had truly occurred naturally by the will of the people, I too would have championed it; but I cannot champion a military annexation dressed with a rushed undemocratic sham referendum organised by a puppet Government and the Russian Military.
(Ian, UK, 17 March 2014 15:25)

Hm, a little faulty as I don't recall a referendum on the Sudetenland joining the Reich. in fact, I seem to recall British and French delegates at the Munich Conference kowtowing to Hitler.

But of course if we're going to use the allegory of outside powers pre-determining the fate of a state/territory without said state/territory having any input, we can look no further than Serbia and the happy little Boratistan that was cut away in similar name of self-determination and vox populi and led by do-it-yourself warlords suddenly re-branded as democratic pioneers.

At least in Crimea, no one was killed when an outside power decided to exploit the desires of the local population.

It is the Tatars and Ukrainians of Crimea I feel sorry for. At least with Russia's occupation of Crimea, there is no chance in hell of the Party of Regions winning the election in May.
(Ian, UK, 17 March 2014 11:35)

Shame you don't feel the same about Serbs who suffered in Sarajevo, Operation Storm, Jasenovac, Srebrenica and Bratunac pre Maldic conquest of the area also the 100 years in Kosovo and 99 and 2004

Go back to the circus mate or back up the hills where you belong mate! P.s. My invite to meet me in Halifax still open unless you don't wanna meet the truth?!

Really? Many ballot papers were already filled in three days ago, two days before the voting even started. There were massive piles of completed ballot papers all with a tick in favour of joining Russia. No wonder the Russian army wouldn't allow the OSCE into Crimea. This is why officially there was a turnout of over 80%, despite a massive boycott.


Not only did the russians want OSCE to come, they also invited them but they refused to come. Oh and by the way didnt you say that if the majority of the people in a certain part of a country wants to break away that you support them? I guess thats only when its about albanians and not Russians or Serbs. Hypocrite. Last but not least the russians didnt invade Crimea, it was the people of crimea that called for their help.

Montenegrin,

I'll defer answering your question for now and wait for your response when Ulcinj becomes part of albania!

too would have championed it; but I cannot champion a military annexation dressed with a rushed undemocratic sham referendum organised by a puppet Government and the Russian Military.
(Ian, UK, 17 March 2014 15:25)

And yet you supported Kosovo breaking away from Serbia even if it was against all international law. Why didnt you oppose the referendum in Kosovo that all non-albanians boycotted? How is that a democratic referendum to you and how can you support that NATO attacked a sovereign country without a UN resolution?

Another very interesting number:

Sevastapol has around 384.000 registered voters. Among them 474.000 have voted. Makes a turnout of 123%.

https://twitter.com/RutheniaRus/status/445539049877811200

Congratulations, Putin! You beat Northkorea's Kim Yong Un. He just got 100%.

WHAT ABOUT NATOS ILLEGAL BOMBING OF SERBIA OR TRYING TO BREAK INTERNATIONAL LAW AND RES.1244?! ONE RULE FOR WEST ANOTHER FOR REST!
(NjegosUK, 17 March 2014 15:59)

Illegal bombing? Illegal according to whom? Which International Court or International Organisation?

Let me remind you that NATO's intervention in FR Yugoslavia came after two UNSCR Resolutions (even Russia supported both) 1160 and 1199 which demanded that FR Yugoslavia cease hostilities against the civilian population of Kosovo, allow international organisations bring aid to Kosovan refugees and to find a political solution to the crisis in Kosovo.

FR Yugoslavia ignored both, so NATO intervened.

UNSCR 1244 wasn't broken, everything has been done in line with this resolution; UNSCR 1244 wasn't a permanent guarantee of FR Yugoslavia's sovereignty over Kosovo, just whilst Kosovo's final status was established but Serbia tried to unilaterally finalise it with their 2006 Constitution which Kosovo didn't agree with or have a say on.

NATO tried to find a political solution, NATO brought all parties to the negotiating table.

Has Russia done that with Crimea? No they haven't, they've rushed through a sham referendum with weeks of occupying it. Russia hasn't even given dialogue a chance. NATO gave dialogue lots of time and NATO countries are still insisting on dialogue. Russia has just outright annexed a chunk of Ukraine. That is completely different to Kosovo.

No thanks id rather not meet someone who has anti Serbian feelings in the grounds of our sacred church... Funny how you say you want people who committed crimes against Serbs to be punished yet you are against Serbian Kosovo and other areas that a Serb dominated returning to rule of Serbdom and also love to take cheap shots at Serbs and Serbia does a favor be who you truly are instead of trying to act like a nicey, nicey can see straight through it!
(NjegosUK, 17 March 2014 16:27)

I think you're scared!

Putin did say that the option to send the military in regions where Russians are a minority is open.
(Nikolle, 17 March 2014 21:33)

"he would use force in Ukraine only as a last resort",

Nikolle

Both the above do have the same meaning,haven't they?My suggestion to you is to think before you post.

(sj, 18 March 2014 22:29)

I think you're too kind to Yanks.Total US debt is calculated at ten times the official one:

http://usawatchdog.com/america-in-worse-fiscal-shape-than-detroit-professor-laurence-kotlikoff/

How can you have 97% for Russian occupation and 3% not in favour when, just for instance, 13% of the population are Tartars vehemently oppposed to the Russians.."

Read the article.

headline: '96.76 percent of Crimeans vote in favor of joining Russia'

In the text 'The turnout was 83 percent - a high number considering that many announced a boycott of the referendum.'


Saakasvili was elected as President on 97% of the vote. Looks like everyone forgot that one. Ah, but he is the right person, not the wrong person. Obviously

Similar to what Putin is doing now. Appear like a patriot who is standing up to the west, never mind that like the Ukranian president he has been accumulating massive wealth through crime, corruption, political imprisonment and murder. This is the real reason behind the issue. Putin is pre-empting discontent in Russia by appearing like a patriot. He fears he would have the same fate as his Ukranian counterpart. Maybe even worse. But if that's what the Russians and Crimeans want then who am I to judge?
(J, 17 March 2014 15:49)

That's what some people want us to believe and accept without question. Any one witha modicum of critical thinking and actual interest in what is going on knows that these simple explinations only serve a propganda interest.

Parroting somebody elses words is not going to win any prizes. It just shows that some peoplehave no interest in looking past their own noses. They should be ignored.

And yet you supported Kosovo breaking away from Serbia even if it was against all international law. Why didnt you oppose the referendum in Kosovo that all non-albanians boycotted? How is that a democratic referendum to you and how can you support that NATO attacked a sovereign country without a UN resolution?
(Daniel, 17 March 2014 17:07)

This is a lie and you know this. When Kosova declared independence it was not done through a referendum. It was done in the parliament and apart from Serbs the other minorities voted in favor.

NATO did attack a sovereign country without UNSC approval. It did the right thing. No thug and criminal enterprise like the state of Serbia at that time, should feel safe that they can kill, maim, rape, and burn people because they can hide behind a principle of sovereignty. There is no principle that trumps the principle of saving the lives of civilians. Sovereign or not sovereign. Nobody has the right to kill people based on ethnicity simply because they do it in their own house; just like you do not have the right to kill your own children because you do it in your own house. At that point nobody gives a f... about your house.

First, no Russian does not want to be master of the Universe unlike the US. Secondly the reality is China does support Russia, but it has a policy of no internal invlovement in countries and that is why Africa loves them. All countries dealing with China would have become disturbed if China openly supported annexation of Crimea – its called diplomacy.
Having said that please don’t quote China foreign office website as I know what is there. You see the so called resolution in the UNSC to be even brought to the table had to be watered down to China’s satisfaction otherwise they would have joined Russia in vetoing it.
Think about it – would China like the west to take over the Crimea and build a huge military base from which to encircle China? No I don’t think so. Crimea is the back door to Europe and front door to China.
Let’s be real here; the UNSC really has the US Russia and China. The rest are hangers on and only warming chairs there because they were something in the past.
If the US could they would launch a military strike mate. The US has a history of doing just that, but it has had its day in the sun and this will be one of its last hurra. When the Crimea is finished, China will take on the west.
No Australia will not be allowed to join the west – China will say nyet.
Enjoy watching the demise of a once great country because an empire dying is rarely seen.

Nikolle, 18 March 2014 10:16)

Yes I see the error of my ways. The US, in debt to the tune of 18 trillion now and by December it will be 19 trillion, plus closure of bases throughout the US/overseas and downsizing its standing army from 800 000 to 400 000, and that is only the start as with each future budget it will have reduce its defence spending as printing money is no longer an option unless they want hyperinflation in the US. I now see my error.
Russia was in no position to fight anyone in 1999, but how the penny has turned. If you think that the US would not take on Russia if she was weak then you are fantasising. For that matter Crimea is very important – NATO wanted that peninsular as part of its expansion further into Asia and encirclement plans of Russia.

(Leonidas, 19 March 2014 08:46)

You are right. Its worse than many realise. $200 Trillion, which includes future unfunded liabilites, is a mind bending figure and hard to imagine what it even looks like since the average person working in a store will earn less than $1 million in a working life time.
There is no way out of this mess for the US, but down. The Crimea crises has put the spot light on US ability to act and it has failed miserably. In fact even with the EU to help its failed. The only part left is to play the last post and bury the US.

(pss, 19 March 2014 04:19)

Let’s leave it at I’m making it up because I’m tired of talking to brick walls.

Kosovo fully agrees with you here. Kosovo also voted to correct the dictatorial fait accompli which made Kosovo part of Serbia in the past without a referendum.
(icj1, 19 March 2014 04:08)

Please tell us all here when was Kosovo ever independent before? When was it Albania? What map can I look it that shows it as Albania? What Albanian structures are there from the 12th, 14th, 15th century? What evidence have you left there that goes back centuries and centuries?

"At least in Crimea, no one was killed when an outside power"

there's a reason for this; Ukraine is not stupid enough to risk whole scale invasion by Russia by deciding to resist. its nothing to do with careful planning by the Russians. after all, Putin did say that the option to send the military in regions where Russians are a minority is open.

Ian
Like i said you live up to the reputation of inbreeding in Oxenhope, read up Gerhard Schröder latest view on Kosovo and byway yes they did as UN did not give permission to bomb or military intervene Serbia and Montenegro thus breaking international law. I mean you have serious issues regarding Serbs so im assuming you went to Greece one summer got drunk mouthed off and a Serb put you in your place, or maybe Albanian friends or did you meet your new best friends on here YIPPEE Friends! Or sexually frustrated dont worry mate will have a whip round and send you to Amsterdam might release the small man syndrome in you. Like i said before your not from Balkans and you know nothing except what BBC news has told you or some dumb idiot friend you made at uni go away little man and play on the moors by yourself by the way does these mean anything to you?!
KosovoNews Redaktion
Levizja Pan Came

PS I ll tell Arian and Ardit you said hi when there cleaning my German whip opaaaa!!!

Exactly Leonidas.

Russia has not done to Crimea what Turkey did to Cyprus. Firstly Turkey invaded a UN member in an act of aggression against its population. Divided the country expelled the indigenous population from one half and re-populated it with Turkish settlers. As could not annex the territory outright it is set up a parastate on its territory.

One can disagree with the way the Russian have conducted themselves, however even if the referendum had conducted under say - Swiss standards of openness it would still have had the same result. Tell me, did anyone ask the population if they wanted to join Ukraine in 1954?

All the USA fanboys winging about Russia should look to the beloved country. How did Texas and California become part of the USA? Washington sent settlers to colonise these states that belonged to Mexico, they then declared 'independence' and then were annexed by the USA.

Which two referendums are you referring to? Please enlighten me.

(Ian, UK, 17 March 2014 15:25)

Seriously, which 2 referendums? LOL. It's quite obvious I'm talking about the referendum for Kosovo and Crimea. You also have to be completely ridiculous, stupid, or ignorant to compare the Crimea situation to Hitler and Nazi Germany. They are absolutely not the same, in any way. Unless the US, NATO, and EU sponsored a coup to overthrow a legally elected government to install their own puppet government with the hopes of pulling Ukraine to the west and building up military bases there and having control of their assets too (think Ukraine's gas lines). So Putin has done nothing but responded to the situation, and really, he had no other play. It's politics, and politics is the devil. It convinces normal people to do the 'leaders' evil deeds.

As for military occupation and your disagreement with it... The Kosovo referendum vote was also heavily under duress. The KLA was thugging around in the same manner as the un-uniformed Russians and didn't hesistate to beat or kill their own people who voiced anything against the KLA or Kosovo independence. The real fact is, the large majority of Crimeans want to break away. I am of the belief you respect the laws of the country you live in.I don't get why Albanians here are against that independence but were for it when they did it. Same with you Ian...double standards.

NEWS UPDATE:

Ethnic Russian community in Brighton Beach Brooklyn, New York conducted a referendum and voted overwhelmingly to secede from America with 99.9 % voting in favor of independence.

Those figures upside down read 666 sign of the Devil.

Soon Russian Black Sea Fleet is expected to arrive and liberate long surpressed ethnic Russian minority from evil American Imperilist bla bla bla.

Crime A pays for Slav Russians.

Please tell us all here when was Kosovo ever independent before? When was it Albania? What map can I look it that shows it as Albania? What Albanian structures are there from the 12th, 14th, 15th century? What evidence have you left there that goes back centuries and centuries?
(Aleks, 19 March 2014 15:21)

Sorry, dear, I never claimed that Kosovo was Albanian in the 12th, 14th, 15th century or whatever? If you are claiming that, please provide proof.

Also I never claimed that Kosovo was ever independent before, so, again, if you are claiming that, please provide proof.

Also, not sure Serbs have any proof that there is any Serb evidence that goes back to the point when Kosovo came into existence in 5.000.000.000 BC, but I might be wrong and you do have the proof :) Also, nobody has provided any proof that Kosovo was always dependent - dependent on what, btw :)

I cannot take this article otherwise, but only as amusing. Only 96.76%?? Some heads should roll for this, Kim Jong-un is laughing.
There is no doubt that Russians have a majority there, but from just majority to moving to Russia is a very long way. Luckily some aliens dressed in russian army uniforms "purchased from any store" with standard russian weaponry and car plates happened to provide a helping hand.
Further (sadly)amusing is that all that baloony about rights of the russian minority in Ukraine turns (as seen in some comments here as well) into a hate attitude against the real minority in Crimeea, the Tartars.
And to wrap it all up, all is done with the help of chechen soldiers and incited by a self-hating chechen, Aslambek Dudayev.
Not to mention that apparently one commentator here praises the taking of Crimeea by some that, at least in attitude, portray those that have cleansed his own people living in Crimeea.
Sad LOL!

LOL, Soviet Union like results. Back in the day in every election the Party won by 99.99% of the vote.

Oh boo hoo Ian UK. You certainly talked out of the other end of your bum when Kosovo voted for independence which was also boycotted by Serbs. Personally, I don't think either referendum should have happened. However, you championed one cause and then defy logic for the other. Spew on with your bogus reasons why this is different and how you feel sorry for ______ fill in the blank.
(Aleks, 17 March 2014 14:19)

Which two referendums are you referring to? Please enlighten me.

To be honest I'm not actually opposed to Crimea being independent or joining with Russia, I just don't agree with the way Russia enforced it via military occupation and lies, ie like Nazi Germany and the Sudetenland. If it had truly occurred naturally by the will of the people, I too would have championed it; but I cannot champion a military annexation dressed with a rushed undemocratic sham referendum organised by a puppet Government and the Russian Military.

Shame you don't feel the same about Serbs who suffered in Sarajevo, Operation Storm, Jasenovac, Srebrenica and Bratunac pre Maldic conquest of the area also the 100 years in Kosovo and 99 and 2004

Go back to the circus mate or back up the hills where you belong mate! P.s. My invite to meet me in Halifax still open unless you don't wanna meet the truth?!
(NjegosUK, 17 March 2014 15:13)

Yawn. I know that Serbs have been the innocent victims of many crimes in the Balkans over the past 100 years and I would like to see the perpetrators punished fairly through proper processes, as I would with all crimes.

I can meet you in Halifax if you want, perhaps at Saint John the Baptist Church? I'm sure you're familiar with it.

Saakasvili was elected as President on 97% of the vote. Looks like everyone forgot that one. Ah, but he is the right person, not the wrong person. Obviously
(Back-2-skool, 17 March 2014 14:14)

Saakasvili was dumb. Nobody in their right mind messes with Russia if you are that small and weak, especially if you are in their backyard and your allies are an ocean away. Unless of course, if his goal all this time was to make Russia take those regions knowing very well that he could not win if he started something. Then for his personal gain he is very smart. Govern unchallenged while you no longer have to deal with those pesky regions while appearing like a patriot who stood up to the Russians. In that case, well played.
Similar to what Putin is doing now. Appear like a patriot who is standing up to the west, never mind that like the Ukranian president he has been accumulating massive wealth through crime, corruption, political imprisonment and murder. This is the real reason behind the issue. Putin is pre-empting discontent in Russia by appearing like a patriot. He fears he would have the same fate as his Ukranian counterpart. Maybe even worse. But if that's what the Russians and Crimeans want then who am I to judge?

Sorry, dear, I never claimed that Kosovo was Albanian in the 12th, 14th, 15th century or whatever? If you are claiming that, please provide proof.

Also I never claimed that Kosovo was ever independent before, so, again, if you are claiming that, please provide proof.

Also, not sure Serbs have any proof that there is any Serb evidence that goes back to the point when Kosovo came into existence in 5.000.000.000 BC, but I might be wrong and you do have the proof :) Also, nobody has provided any proof that Kosovo was always dependent - dependent on what, btw :)
(icj1, 20 March 2014 04:18)

Kosovo fully agrees with you here. Kosovo also voted to correct the dictatorial fait accompli which made Kosovo part of Serbia in the past without a referendum.
(icj1, 19 March 2014 04:08)

We all know what you're implying here, and this was your response to Leonidas. There was no dictorial fait accompli corrected here, and my point above stands as to why. Kosovo was never independent, never part of Albania, and doesn't have the evidence and history to back up any such claims. We do know it was part of Serbia and with that fact, your statement to Leonidas is ridiculous. Then you go on with your creation of the world, 5,000,000,000 b.c. Hey, in that case, nothing belongs to anybody!

On the contrary,with "Turkish Cypriots" a minority to mainland settlers in their"own country" and tens of thousands of Turkish troops comfortably established as their "protectors" keeping the the bad Greeks away,it is obvious that reunification is not an option,no matter what is written to the contrary.One solution that I see is return of land in return of recognition by the South and then have the "Turkish Cypriots" chart their own future.Personally, I have long concluded that Christians and Muslims cannot live together in harmony.The basic mistake the Greek Cypriots make in their approach to reunification talks is their belief that "Turkish Cypriots" are empowered and can decide independently of Turkey and Turks will accept anything less other than two nations.The Turkish approach has always been :what was grabbed is ours and what is left to you we share.Hence,the present start of the new talks which are primarily aimed at Cyprus energy deposits discovered in the South and how the Turks can benefit from them.
(Leonidas, 17 March 2014 13:52)

Thanks for proving my point, Russia is reading from the same script which Turkey used in Northern Cyprus.

Northern Cyprus is de facto controlled by Turkey just like Crimea is de facto controlled by Russia.

Hahaha scared?! No i just dont want your venom near my church thats all like i said meet me in Halifax not my church or i could come up to Oxenhope go past there a few times must say you really live up to the reputation of inbreeding up there !

As far as I am concerned, Crimea is an autonomous unit with a Russian majority that was only joined to the Ukraine in 1954, and thus if it is their desire to join Russia, I find nothing wrong with it. Russia did obviously intervene and engineer everything in their favour, but it's more of a case of a self-fulfilling prophecy anyway in the case of Crimea, since desire for more autonomy and closer relations with Russia have always been there.

The West should respect the decision of the people, like they respected the decision of the people of Kosovo, or more specifically with the people of the Falkland Islands, who wanted independence, declared and then suffered an invasion by the British.

However, I hope this ends here. This part of Ukraine was integral part of Russia until 1954, the rest of those Eastern territories only during times of Imperial Russia (hence why I say claiming them and/or acting on dismembering/facilitating the dismemberment of Ukraine is Russian imperialism) and we recognized as part of even the Ukrainian SSR at the beginning of the 20th Century. Cutting the country on ethnic lines would be the king of precedents and simply put, DANGEROUS! It should stop here. Kiev is not controlled by "fascists" as the Russian commie propaganda machine suggests, it is controlled by Ukrainians who want to be free to decide their future and not be robbed dry in the process by scumbags like Yanukovich.

BTW To lighten things up, since I notice the emotions are all hot here:

Obama - We urge the Russian Federation to withdraw...
Putin - Knock-knock.
Obama - Uh, who's there?
Putin - Crimea.
Obama - Uh, Crimea who?
Putin - Crimea a river!
Obama - * hangs up the phone *

Good luck to the people of Crimea. They will certainly have it better under financially-ept and energy-rich Russia than under economically bankrupt and failed Ukraine.

(pss, 17 March 2014 23:31)
I mentioned the Chinese foreign minstry simply becasue others have pointed out to me the offical Chinese statment after I claimed that China supported Russia.
The UN resolution was meaningless clap trap. The original resolution was not just critical of Russia which had a few very biting words, but the Chinese made them change it.
What does WW3 have to do with the resolution? What, once it was read out and voted WW3 would beavoided?.
I know the world better than you. Basically, if NATO were to established a base in Crimea they would them „democratise those 5-6 countries with leaderships friendly to them and then you would have NATO on China’s doorstep. Why do you think China is not giving up on North Korea????
Russia will take all the land along the sea and connect with Moldavia and then its at the EU’s back door. The US and EU are not figting for freedom and democracy in Ukraine, but to try and stop the Russians from controlling Europe.
Russia was not in Kosovo during the NATO bombing so I dont know where you are heading with that.
Now how many Australian politiicans do you know? I’d say not one. Australia mainly relies on digging up minerals and farming then selling to China so if there was a problem between China and the US, who do you think Australia would back??? US or China? And no its not the US.

Your point was to prove that I am a hypocrite,like yourself,who applies different logic to similar situations.The Crimean people vote in a citizens' referendum was to correct Khrushchev's dictatorial fait accompli of 1954.A great day for self-determination of the Crimean people.
(Leonidas, 17 March 2014 16:29)

Kosovo fully agrees with you here. Kosovo also voted to correct the dictatorial fait accompli which made Kosovo part of Serbia in the past without a referendum.

I heard that Russian troops have just received the order to attack. Is that correct?

I wonder if the serbs here agree what was done in Crimea-moving towards secession.
If they agree with what happened in Crimea, do they also agree to allow Kosovo be independent, or even more, join Albania?
It is somewhat same scenario, except that albanians were discriminated against during the Milosevic era and that the Crimeans were not even touched by the Ukraininan authorities...

Lets hear your comments serbs...

Putin did say that the option to send the military in regions where Russians are a minority is open.
(Nikolle, 17 March 2014 21:33)

No he didn't,stop fabricating stories.He said there was no need to send troops in Ukraine.

(sj, 17 March 2014 22:11)
Could not tell whether you were answering me or 15 other people as you rambled around. I have no idea what you are talking about the China Foreign ministry site but I can only conclude it contradicts what you are saying(as usual).
The watering down of the resolution to gain China approval is no secret but it was to condemn Russia for their actions without approving any type of military intervention. China does not want a 3rd WW either.
Have you ever seen a map of the world. You keep saying Crimea is the door to Europe, please it is a peninsula that sticks out into the Black Sea , China has to cross 5-6 countries plus a huge part of Russia to even get to it then it is easier to go around it than to cross it.
The US would not launch an invasion against Russia unless it had a direct threat to the US, that was true during the cold war, during the weak years of Russia, and true now as we enter the new cold war. Same with Russia as seen during the Cuban missle crisis. And the reason Russia pulled back out of Kosovo as NATO air strikes were under way.
Now for the big one you have no clue about the country you were supposedly born in if you do not think they would align with the west during a 3rd world war!

Really? Many ballot papers were already filled in three days ago, two days before the voting even started. There were massive piles of completed ballot papers all with a tick in favour of joining Russia. No wonder the Russian army wouldn't allow the OSCE into Crimea. This is why officially there was a turnout of over 80%, despite a massive boycott.


Not only did the russians want OSCE to come, they also invited them but they refused to come. Oh and by the way didnt you say that if the majority of the people in a certain part of a country wants to break away that you support them? I guess thats only when its about albanians and not Russians or Serbs. Hypocrite. Last but not least the russians didnt invade Crimea, it was the people of crimea that called for their help.
(Daniel, 17 March 2014 17:03)

Daniel, you got it all wrong. The Crimean authorities did not allow in an OSCE mission with military observers from across the organisation (including Russia). Meanwhile, the Crimean authorities and Moscow wanted the OSCE to send election observers to monitor the Crimean referendum. As an inter-state organisation, this is something the OSCE can't do. The OSCE only observers election upon an invitation from the state concerned, i.e. Ukraine. For the same reason, the OSCE does not monitor elections in Kosovo, as Kosovo is not a member state of the OSCE. The OSCE mission in Kosovo is there and can only operate with the blessing of Belgrade.

Russia was in no position to fight anyone in 1999
(sj, 18 March 2014 22:29)

Really?! Russia even send its army to Kosovo in 1999 confronting NATO, whereas Vladimir withdrew it and has never since really helped the Serbian brothers to liberate the cradle of Serbdom or the Jerusalem of Serbs!

(sj, 17 March 2014 11:45)
Interesting article and I agree with most of what he says, however, I disagree with your interpretation. You want to paint Russia as the new master of the universe and the US as Serbia in the world of influence. But what he says is that Russia as become a force to reckon with and we are now entering a new Cold War era, this is true and has been coming on for quite some time. The result is the UN and especially the UNSC has become a totally dysfunctional entity, as seen with the vote on Crimea, with overwhelming support for criticism of Russia's actions in Crimea a vote of 13 for, China abstain and Russian veto, The majority has no voice, the same as resolutions in the past on Israel in which the US would be the lone veto.
This just means that UNSC is only effective against 3rd world countries that have no support from any of the 5 permanent members. Manly 3 as US,UK, and France usually are on the same side but not always.
Of course your praise of the Russian military on being able to shoot down a drone. Really, are you serious, these are unmanned aircraft with no defense capabilities that are used for surveillance capabilities. It is more like skeet shooting.
NATO acting? We in the US are tired of senseless wars, Iraq and Afghanistan would not have happened if not for 9/11. But direct military confrontation with Russia and to a lesser degree China would mean WW3 and inevitably nukes, is that a sign of weakness to avoid that?

sj, cont.
The very same reason Russian support for Serbia remains in the verbal and political arena and not militarily.
Hopefully, no leader of the big three will decide that a military intervention against the others is something to happen over Sunday brunch.
Should it come to war, Australia would more than likely align with the west, do you think your parents house would be insulated from Russian missles. Don't be so eager to see a war of this magnitude no one would be unaffected.

"...but it has had its day in the sun.."

yep, the US is now in the unenviable position of not being able to win. if it strikes, its imperialist, if it does nothing, its weak. the US is not about to risk nuclear war for Ukraine, and that is a good thing. for the exact reason, Russia, will not risk war for the sake of Serbia. you tell me of a way to engage in military action with Russia without the risk of atom bombs

"No he didn't,stop fabricating stories.He said there was no need to send troops in Ukraine."

oh dear. sunshine, his actual words "...military force would be 'last resort' in Ukraine". before that, he used the phrase 'for now' not needed. but don't worry, i know you have a hard time comprehending things

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/04/uk-ukraine-idUKBREA1H0EM20140304

sj, cont.
The very same reason Russian support for Serbia remains in the verbal and political arena and not militarily.
Hopefully, no leader of the big three will decide that a military intervention against the others is something to happen over Sunday brunch.
Should it come to war, Australia would more than likely align with the west, do you think your parents house would be insulated from Russian missles. Don't be so eager to see a war of this magnitude no one would be unaffected.
(pss, 17 March 2014 15:40)

Unfortunately, if the above were to happen to satisfy dear sj's wishes, you, me or sj won't be around to argue who was right and who was wrong :)

NATO wanted that peninsular as part of its expansion further into Asia and encirclement plans of Russia.
(sj, 18 March 2014 22:29)
Do you smoke something to help you create these facts or is it just a natural talent for you. Considering there has been a Russian base there for years it is totally illogical for anyone to claim NATO wanted a base there, and we know you have zero evidence to back that up.
As you have said before the high numbers of military you give also include reservists and national guards, Well the low numbers you give are active US and the goal was to reduce to 425 to 475 down from 540, there is no plan to reduce the number of reservist or guards. However, those numbers were a suggestion and it was up to congress to approve, with the latest developments, it is highly doubtful that plan will be submitted to congress and almost certain it will not pass.

"96.7 percent of Crimeans vote in favor of joining Russia"

Really? Many ballot papers were already filled in three days ago, two days before the voting even started. There were massive piles of completed ballot papers all with a tick in favour of joining Russia. No wonder the Russian army wouldn't allow the OSCE into Crimea. This is why officially there was a turnout of over 80%, despite a massive boycott.

It is a massive sham, just like the protests in Eastern Ukraine. There are buses arriving daily in Kharkiv and Donesk from Russia filled with "Protestors". Its a joke.

At least the ethnic Russians of Crimea can live in paradise like Abkhazia and South Ossetia. What was it Russia Today said that Crimea will become? The new Singapore LOL!

It is the Tatars and Ukrainians of Crimea I feel sorry for. At least with Russia's occupation of Crimea, there is no chance in hell of the Party of Regions winning the election in May.

I would say well done Crimea with your referendum and in the style of US diplomacy(Victoria Nuland) should say F**k the US & F**k the EU.
(Leonidas, 17 March 2014 10:04)

You do realise that what Russia has done in Crimea is an exact mirror of what Turkey has done in Northern Cyprus. However, I bet you're not as supportive of the Turks in Northern Cyprus as you are of the Russians in Crimea because you're a nationalist hypocrite.

March on brothers and sisters.God bless you. God bless Vladimir Putin.

WHAT ABOUT NATOS ILLEGAL BOMBING OF SERBIA OR TRYING TO BREAK INTERNATIONAL LAW AND RES.1244?! ONE RULE FOR WEST ANOTHER FOR REST!
(NjegosUK, 17 March 2014 15:59)

Illegal bombing? Illegal according to whom? Which International Court or International Organisation?

Let me remind you that NATO's intervention in FR Yugoslavia came after two UNSCR Resolutions (even Russia supported both) 1160 and 1199 which demanded that FR Yugoslavia cease hostilities against the civilian population of Kosovo, allow international organisations bring aid to Kosovan refugees and to find a political solution to the crisis in Kosovo.

FR Yugoslavia ignored both, so NATO intervened.

UNSCR 1244 wasn't broken, everything has been done in line with this resolution; UNSCR 1244 wasn't a permanent guarantee of FR Yugoslavia's sovereignty over Kosovo, just whilst Kosovo's final status was established but Serbia tried to unilaterally finalise it with their 2006 Constitution which Kosovo didn't agree with or have a say on.

NATO tried to find a political solution, NATO brought all parties to the negotiating table.

Has Russia done that with Crimea? No they haven't, they've rushed through a sham referendum with weeks of occupying it. Russia hasn't even given dialogue a chance. NATO gave dialogue lots of time and NATO countries are still insisting on dialogue. Russia has just outright annexed a chunk of Ukraine. That is completely different to Kosovo.

No thanks id rather not meet someone who has anti Serbian feelings in the grounds of our sacred church... Funny how you say you want people who committed crimes against Serbs to be punished yet you are against Serbian Kosovo and other areas that a Serb dominated returning to rule of Serbdom and also love to take cheap shots at Serbs and Serbia does a favor be who you truly are instead of trying to act like a nicey, nicey can see straight through it!
(NjegosUK, 17 March 2014 16:27)

I think you're scared!

A victory for the Russians but was the referendum democratic? NO.
How can you have 97% for Russian occupation and 3% not in favour when, just for instance, 13% of the population are Tartars vehemently oppposed to the Russians. Also how is it possible to hold such a referendum when Russian troops are on the ground and any political opposition was squashed.
At the same time the Russians were opposed to the unilateral declaration of independence by Kosovo while the vote for annexation of the Krim to Russia is no different.
This can only be described as a land grab and now that Putin has gotten away with it where will it stop.

Another very interesting number:

Sevastapol has around 384.000 registered voters. Among them 474.000 have voted. Makes a turnout of 123%.

https://twitter.com/RutheniaRus/status/445539049877811200

Congratulations, Putin! You beat Northkorea's Kim Yong Un. He just got 100%.

On the contrary,with "Turkish Cypriots" a minority to mainland settlers in their"own country" and tens of thousands of Turkish troops comfortably established as their "protectors" keeping the the bad Greeks away,it is obvious that reunification is not an option,no matter what is written to the contrary.One solution that I see is return of land in return of recognition by the South and then have the "Turkish Cypriots" chart their own future.Personally, I have long concluded that Christians and Muslims cannot live together in harmony.The basic mistake the Greek Cypriots make in their approach to reunification talks is their belief that "Turkish Cypriots" are empowered and can decide independently of Turkey and Turks will accept anything less other than two nations.The Turkish approach has always been :what was grabbed is ours and what is left to you we share.Hence,the present start of the new talks which are primarily aimed at Cyprus energy deposits discovered in the South and how the Turks can benefit from them.
(Leonidas, 17 March 2014 13:52)

Thanks for proving my point, Russia is reading from the same script which Turkey used in Northern Cyprus.

Northern Cyprus is de facto controlled by Turkey just like Crimea is de facto controlled by Russia.

U.S. President Barack Obama had a telephone conversation with Russian President Vladimir Putin, and according to reports, told him that he and his European allies "are willing to punish Moscow for violating the territorial integrity of Ukraine."

Does he really know what international law means?He's overseen worldwide surveillance, detention without charge, the concentration camp at Guantanamo Bay,rendition and torture, comprehensive and indiscriminate use of weapons of mass destruction, bombing of foreign countries either directly or with drones, and the invasion of sovereign states and slaughter of populations who unable to defend themselves.

I would say well done Crimea with your referendum and in the style of US diplomacy(Victoria Nuland) should say F**k the US & F**k the EU.

A pro-EU meeting in the west of Ukraine. Slogans :

- Moskals (=Russians) to guillotine !
- The one who’s not jumping is a Moskal !
- We want to EU
- One Fatherland – one language !

http://www.km.ru/tv/shkolnaya-lineika-v-kieve-moskal

These Catholic Hitlerjugends have little to do with the Russian world. They poison their children’s hearts condemning them to poverty and neglect. Disappointment will come very soon. No one needs such zombies in EU or elsewhere. Neither are them the Ukrainians as well. Most Ukrainians are different and Russia will not leave them under the Nazi. EU will fail to always closing their eyes at the UKRAINE UBER ALLES in the heart of Europe. I hope Russo phobia is a smaller feeling than instinct of self-preservation.

I wonder if the serbs here agree what was done in Crimea-moving towards secession.
If they agree with what happened in Crimea, do they also agree to allow Kosovo be independent, or even more, join Albania?
It is somewhat same scenario, except that albanians were discriminated against during the Milosevic era and that the Crimeans were not even touched by the Ukraininan authorities...

Lets hear your comments serbs...

This Vote for Democracy and for Self Determination that occurred in Crimea with a population of approximately 2,000,000 is slightly less, than the result for the Falkland Islands Sovereignty Referendum of 2013, which has a population of approximately 3,000 People on the other side of the world to Britain.

Argentina acquired the Falklands from Spain, upon achieving Independence from Spain in 1816, and that Britain Illegally Occupied them in 1833; whereas, Crimea has been Russian Land, and was included in Ukraine Only for easier Administration during the USSR.

I do not know if the British Military Personal who were stationed in the Falklands Voted in that Sovereignty Referendum at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_referendum,_2013 .

This is a war for Europe and the US has come into this ill prepared and not really able to do much except expelling hot air about imposing some very tough sanctions, whatever that means. However, we all know that Washington is “pointing a gun’ that they all know is empty. Lets no joke about this, if the US could, they would have used NATO to its fullest force, but it can’t as most NATO members are war-weary from Afghanistan, there is no money in EU budgets for any military misadventures and this is a country well armed and able to defend itself as we have read about downing US drones over Crimea.
If Washington was serious they would impose trade sanctions, but remember Russia can hurt the US even more and at this stage of a fragile US economy it will not take much to plunge it into depths not seen before.
You get very few academics today that are just that, but Prof Armin Saikal, Australian National University, is just that and he puts the vulnerability of Russia over the Crimean issue into perspective, especially in the penultimate paragraph, last couple of lines.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-07/saikal-putins-show-of-power-pays-off/5303992

LOL, Soviet Union like results. Back in the day in every election the Party won by 99.99% of the vote.

Oh boo hoo Ian UK. You certainly talked out of the other end of your bum when Kosovo voted for independence which was also boycotted by Serbs. Personally, I don't think either referendum should have happened. However, you championed one cause and then defy logic for the other. Spew on with your bogus reasons why this is different and how you feel sorry for ______ fill in the blank.
(Aleks, 17 March 2014 14:19)

Which two referendums are you referring to? Please enlighten me.

To be honest I'm not actually opposed to Crimea being independent or joining with Russia, I just don't agree with the way Russia enforced it via military occupation and lies, ie like Nazi Germany and the Sudetenland. If it had truly occurred naturally by the will of the people, I too would have championed it; but I cannot champion a military annexation dressed with a rushed undemocratic sham referendum organised by a puppet Government and the Russian Military.

Shame you don't feel the same about Serbs who suffered in Sarajevo, Operation Storm, Jasenovac, Srebrenica and Bratunac pre Maldic conquest of the area also the 100 years in Kosovo and 99 and 2004

Go back to the circus mate or back up the hills where you belong mate! P.s. My invite to meet me in Halifax still open unless you don't wanna meet the truth?!
(NjegosUK, 17 March 2014 15:13)

Yawn. I know that Serbs have been the innocent victims of many crimes in the Balkans over the past 100 years and I would like to see the perpetrators punished fairly through proper processes, as I would with all crimes.

I can meet you in Halifax if you want, perhaps at Saint John the Baptist Church? I'm sure you're familiar with it.

I heard that Russian troops have just received the order to attack. Is that correct?

I cannot take this article otherwise, but only as amusing. Only 96.76%?? Some heads should roll for this, Kim Jong-un is laughing.
There is no doubt that Russians have a majority there, but from just majority to moving to Russia is a very long way. Luckily some aliens dressed in russian army uniforms "purchased from any store" with standard russian weaponry and car plates happened to provide a helping hand.
Further (sadly)amusing is that all that baloony about rights of the russian minority in Ukraine turns (as seen in some comments here as well) into a hate attitude against the real minority in Crimeea, the Tartars.
And to wrap it all up, all is done with the help of chechen soldiers and incited by a self-hating chechen, Aslambek Dudayev.
Not to mention that apparently one commentator here praises the taking of Crimeea by some that, at least in attitude, portray those that have cleansed his own people living in Crimeea.
Sad LOL!

(sj, 17 March 2014 11:45)
Interesting article and I agree with most of what he says, however, I disagree with your interpretation. You want to paint Russia as the new master of the universe and the US as Serbia in the world of influence. But what he says is that Russia as become a force to reckon with and we are now entering a new Cold War era, this is true and has been coming on for quite some time. The result is the UN and especially the UNSC has become a totally dysfunctional entity, as seen with the vote on Crimea, with overwhelming support for criticism of Russia's actions in Crimea a vote of 13 for, China abstain and Russian veto, The majority has no voice, the same as resolutions in the past on Israel in which the US would be the lone veto.
This just means that UNSC is only effective against 3rd world countries that have no support from any of the 5 permanent members. Manly 3 as US,UK, and France usually are on the same side but not always.
Of course your praise of the Russian military on being able to shoot down a drone. Really, are you serious, these are unmanned aircraft with no defense capabilities that are used for surveillance capabilities. It is more like skeet shooting.
NATO acting? We in the US are tired of senseless wars, Iraq and Afghanistan would not have happened if not for 9/11. But direct military confrontation with Russia and to a lesser degree China would mean WW3 and inevitably nukes, is that a sign of weakness to avoid that?

First, no Russian does not want to be master of the Universe unlike the US. Secondly the reality is China does support Russia, but it has a policy of no internal invlovement in countries and that is why Africa loves them. All countries dealing with China would have become disturbed if China openly supported annexation of Crimea – its called diplomacy.
Having said that please don’t quote China foreign office website as I know what is there. You see the so called resolution in the UNSC to be even brought to the table had to be watered down to China’s satisfaction otherwise they would have joined Russia in vetoing it.
Think about it – would China like the west to take over the Crimea and build a huge military base from which to encircle China? No I don’t think so. Crimea is the back door to Europe and front door to China.
Let’s be real here; the UNSC really has the US Russia and China. The rest are hangers on and only warming chairs there because they were something in the past.
If the US could they would launch a military strike mate. The US has a history of doing just that, but it has had its day in the sun and this will be one of its last hurra. When the Crimea is finished, China will take on the west.
No Australia will not be allowed to join the west – China will say nyet.
Enjoy watching the demise of a once great country because an empire dying is rarely seen.

The Tatars are only about 230000in Crimea.If they don't want to live in Crimea they can all move to Bradford UK ,there are plenty of muslims and mosques in the area to satisfy their needs.

Saakasvili was elected as President on 97% of the vote. Looks like everyone forgot that one. Ah, but he is the right person, not the wrong person. Obviously
(Back-2-skool, 17 March 2014 14:14)

Saakasvili was dumb. Nobody in their right mind messes with Russia if you are that small and weak, especially if you are in their backyard and your allies are an ocean away. Unless of course, if his goal all this time was to make Russia take those regions knowing very well that he could not win if he started something. Then for his personal gain he is very smart. Govern unchallenged while you no longer have to deal with those pesky regions while appearing like a patriot who stood up to the Russians. In that case, well played.
Similar to what Putin is doing now. Appear like a patriot who is standing up to the west, never mind that like the Ukranian president he has been accumulating massive wealth through crime, corruption, political imprisonment and murder. This is the real reason behind the issue. Putin is pre-empting discontent in Russia by appearing like a patriot. He fears he would have the same fate as his Ukranian counterpart. Maybe even worse. But if that's what the Russians and Crimeans want then who am I to judge?

too would have championed it; but I cannot champion a military annexation dressed with a rushed undemocratic sham referendum organised by a puppet Government and the Russian Military.
(Ian, UK, 17 March 2014 15:25)

And yet you supported Kosovo breaking away from Serbia even if it was against all international law. Why didnt you oppose the referendum in Kosovo that all non-albanians boycotted? How is that a democratic referendum to you and how can you support that NATO attacked a sovereign country without a UN resolution?

Ian,

On the contrary,with "Turkish Cypriots" a minority to mainland settlers in their"own country" and tens of thousands of Turkish troops comfortably established as their "protectors" keeping the the bad Greeks away,it is obvious that reunification is not an option,no matter what is written to the contrary.One solution that I see is return of land in return of recognition by the South and then have the "Turkish Cypriots" chart their own future.Personally, I have long concluded that Christians and Muslims cannot live together in harmony.The basic mistake the Greek Cypriots make in their approach to reunification talks is their belief that "Turkish Cypriots" are empowered and can decide independently of Turkey and Turks will accept anything less other than two nations.The Turkish approach has always been :what was grabbed is ours and what is left to you we share.Hence,the present start of the new talks which are primarily aimed at Cyprus energy deposits discovered in the South and how the Turks can benefit from them.

sj, cont.
The very same reason Russian support for Serbia remains in the verbal and political arena and not militarily.
Hopefully, no leader of the big three will decide that a military intervention against the others is something to happen over Sunday brunch.
Should it come to war, Australia would more than likely align with the west, do you think your parents house would be insulated from Russian missles. Don't be so eager to see a war of this magnitude no one would be unaffected.

And yet you supported Kosovo breaking away from Serbia even if it was against all international law. Why didnt you oppose the referendum in Kosovo that all non-albanians boycotted? How is that a democratic referendum to you and how can you support that NATO attacked a sovereign country without a UN resolution?
(Daniel, 17 March 2014 17:07)

This is a lie and you know this. When Kosova declared independence it was not done through a referendum. It was done in the parliament and apart from Serbs the other minorities voted in favor.

NATO did attack a sovereign country without UNSC approval. It did the right thing. No thug and criminal enterprise like the state of Serbia at that time, should feel safe that they can kill, maim, rape, and burn people because they can hide behind a principle of sovereignty. There is no principle that trumps the principle of saving the lives of civilians. Sovereign or not sovereign. Nobody has the right to kill people based on ethnicity simply because they do it in their own house; just like you do not have the right to kill your own children because you do it in your own house. At that point nobody gives a f... about your house.

"At least in Crimea, no one was killed when an outside power"

there's a reason for this; Ukraine is not stupid enough to risk whole scale invasion by Russia by deciding to resist. its nothing to do with careful planning by the Russians. after all, Putin did say that the option to send the military in regions where Russians are a minority is open.

BTW To lighten things up, since I notice the emotions are all hot here:

Obama - We urge the Russian Federation to withdraw...
Putin - Knock-knock.
Obama - Uh, who's there?
Putin - Crimea.
Obama - Uh, Crimea who?
Putin - Crimea a river!
Obama - * hangs up the phone *

Good luck to the people of Crimea. They will certainly have it better under financially-ept and energy-rich Russia than under economically bankrupt and failed Ukraine.

Your point was to prove that I am a hypocrite,like yourself,who applies different logic to similar situations.The Crimean people vote in a citizens' referendum was to correct Khrushchev's dictatorial fait accompli of 1954.A great day for self-determination of the Crimean people.
(Leonidas, 17 March 2014 16:29)

Kosovo fully agrees with you here. Kosovo also voted to correct the dictatorial fait accompli which made Kosovo part of Serbia in the past without a referendum.

Thanks for proving my point, Russia is reading from the same script which Turkey used in Northern Cyprus.

(Ian, UK, 17 March 2014 14:28)

Your point was to prove that I am a hypocrite,like yourself,who applies different logic to similar situations.The Crimean people vote in a citizens' referendum was to correct Khrushchev's dictatorial fait accompli of 1954.A great day for self-determination of the Crimean people.

You do realise that what Russia has done in Crimea is an exact mirror of what Turkey has done in Northern Cyprus. However, I bet you're not as supportive of the Turks in Northern Cyprus as you are of the Russians in Crimea because you're a nationalist hypocrite.
(Ian, UK, 17 March 2014 12:48)

LOL oh Ian, your argument would be so more convincing if you looked at Kosovo in the same way. Sadly you don't and thus your position is just as subjective as those you argue with on the internet. I assume you spent the weekend in Crimea getting the information that you do. I assume you know 100% that these elections were a sham, unlike the clear and straightforward elections held a few months prior in the Falklands over a similar issue.

I assume you're just hiding the fact that you did something this weekend other than hover over your computer for you to be this sure :)

I just don't agree with the way Russia enforced it via military occupation and lies, ie like Nazi Germany and the Sudetenland. If it had truly occurred naturally by the will of the people, I too would have championed it; but I cannot champion a military annexation dressed with a rushed undemocratic sham referendum organised by a puppet Government and the Russian Military.
(Ian, UK, 17 March 2014 15:25)

Hm, a little faulty as I don't recall a referendum on the Sudetenland joining the Reich. in fact, I seem to recall British and French delegates at the Munich Conference kowtowing to Hitler.

But of course if we're going to use the allegory of outside powers pre-determining the fate of a state/territory without said state/territory having any input, we can look no further than Serbia and the happy little Boratistan that was cut away in similar name of self-determination and vox populi and led by do-it-yourself warlords suddenly re-branded as democratic pioneers.

At least in Crimea, no one was killed when an outside power decided to exploit the desires of the local population.

As far as I am concerned, Crimea is an autonomous unit with a Russian majority that was only joined to the Ukraine in 1954, and thus if it is their desire to join Russia, I find nothing wrong with it. Russia did obviously intervene and engineer everything in their favour, but it's more of a case of a self-fulfilling prophecy anyway in the case of Crimea, since desire for more autonomy and closer relations with Russia have always been there.

The West should respect the decision of the people, like they respected the decision of the people of Kosovo, or more specifically with the people of the Falkland Islands, who wanted independence, declared and then suffered an invasion by the British.

However, I hope this ends here. This part of Ukraine was integral part of Russia until 1954, the rest of those Eastern territories only during times of Imperial Russia (hence why I say claiming them and/or acting on dismembering/facilitating the dismemberment of Ukraine is Russian imperialism) and we recognized as part of even the Ukrainian SSR at the beginning of the 20th Century. Cutting the country on ethnic lines would be the king of precedents and simply put, DANGEROUS! It should stop here. Kiev is not controlled by "fascists" as the Russian commie propaganda machine suggests, it is controlled by Ukrainians who want to be free to decide their future and not be robbed dry in the process by scumbags like Yanukovich.

Russia was in no position to fight anyone in 1999
(sj, 18 March 2014 22:29)

Really?! Russia even send its army to Kosovo in 1999 confronting NATO, whereas Vladimir withdrew it and has never since really helped the Serbian brothers to liberate the cradle of Serbdom or the Jerusalem of Serbs!

sj, cont.
The very same reason Russian support for Serbia remains in the verbal and political arena and not militarily.
Hopefully, no leader of the big three will decide that a military intervention against the others is something to happen over Sunday brunch.
Should it come to war, Australia would more than likely align with the west, do you think your parents house would be insulated from Russian missles. Don't be so eager to see a war of this magnitude no one would be unaffected.
(pss, 17 March 2014 15:40)

Unfortunately, if the above were to happen to satisfy dear sj's wishes, you, me or sj won't be around to argue who was right and who was wrong :)

Kosovo fully agrees with you here. Kosovo also voted to correct the dictatorial fait accompli which made Kosovo part of Serbia in the past without a referendum.
(icj1, 19 March 2014 04:08)

Please tell us all here when was Kosovo ever independent before? When was it Albania? What map can I look it that shows it as Albania? What Albanian structures are there from the 12th, 14th, 15th century? What evidence have you left there that goes back centuries and centuries?

Oh boo hoo Ian UK. You certainly talked out of the other end of your bum when Kosovo voted for independence which was also boycotted by Serbs. Personally, I don't think either referendum should have happened. However, you championed one cause and then defy logic for the other. Spew on with your bogus reasons why this is different and how you feel sorry for ______ fill in the blank.

To be honest I'm not actually opposed to Crimea being independent or joining with Russia, I just don't agree with the way Russia enforced it via military occupation and lies, ie like Nazi Germany and the Sudetenland. If it had truly occurred naturally by the will of the people, I too would have championed it; but I cannot champion a military annexation dressed with a rushed undemocratic sham referendum organised by a puppet Government and the Russian Military.
(Ian, UK, 17 March 2014 15:25)

WHAT ABOUT NATOS ILLEGAL BOMBING OF SERBIA OR TRYING TO BREAK INTERNATIONAL LAW AND RES.1244?! ONE RULE FOR WEST ANOTHER FOR REST!

No thanks id rather not meet someone who has anti Serbian feelings in the grounds of our sacred church... Funny how you say you want people who committed crimes against Serbs to be punished yet you are against Serbian Kosovo and other areas that a Serb dominated returning to rule of Serbdom and also love to take cheap shots at Serbs and Serbia does a favor be who you truly are instead of trying to act like a nicey, nicey can see straight through it!

Montenegrin,

I'll defer answering your question for now and wait for your response when Ulcinj becomes part of albania!

Really? Many ballot papers were already filled in three days ago, two days before the voting even started. There were massive piles of completed ballot papers all with a tick in favour of joining Russia. No wonder the Russian army wouldn't allow the OSCE into Crimea. This is why officially there was a turnout of over 80%, despite a massive boycott.


Not only did the russians want OSCE to come, they also invited them but they refused to come. Oh and by the way didnt you say that if the majority of the people in a certain part of a country wants to break away that you support them? I guess thats only when its about albanians and not Russians or Serbs. Hypocrite. Last but not least the russians didnt invade Crimea, it was the people of crimea that called for their help.

(pss, 17 March 2014 23:31)
I mentioned the Chinese foreign minstry simply becasue others have pointed out to me the offical Chinese statment after I claimed that China supported Russia.
The UN resolution was meaningless clap trap. The original resolution was not just critical of Russia which had a few very biting words, but the Chinese made them change it.
What does WW3 have to do with the resolution? What, once it was read out and voted WW3 would beavoided?.
I know the world better than you. Basically, if NATO were to established a base in Crimea they would them „democratise those 5-6 countries with leaderships friendly to them and then you would have NATO on China’s doorstep. Why do you think China is not giving up on North Korea????
Russia will take all the land along the sea and connect with Moldavia and then its at the EU’s back door. The US and EU are not figting for freedom and democracy in Ukraine, but to try and stop the Russians from controlling Europe.
Russia was not in Kosovo during the NATO bombing so I dont know where you are heading with that.
Now how many Australian politiicans do you know? I’d say not one. Australia mainly relies on digging up minerals and farming then selling to China so if there was a problem between China and the US, who do you think Australia would back??? US or China? And no its not the US.

NATO wanted that peninsular as part of its expansion further into Asia and encirclement plans of Russia.
(sj, 18 March 2014 22:29)
Do you smoke something to help you create these facts or is it just a natural talent for you. Considering there has been a Russian base there for years it is totally illogical for anyone to claim NATO wanted a base there, and we know you have zero evidence to back that up.
As you have said before the high numbers of military you give also include reservists and national guards, Well the low numbers you give are active US and the goal was to reduce to 425 to 475 down from 540, there is no plan to reduce the number of reservist or guards. However, those numbers were a suggestion and it was up to congress to approve, with the latest developments, it is highly doubtful that plan will be submitted to congress and almost certain it will not pass.

(pss, 19 March 2014 04:19)

Let’s leave it at I’m making it up because I’m tired of talking to brick walls.

NEWS UPDATE:

Ethnic Russian community in Brighton Beach Brooklyn, New York conducted a referendum and voted overwhelmingly to secede from America with 99.9 % voting in favor of independence.

Those figures upside down read 666 sign of the Devil.

Soon Russian Black Sea Fleet is expected to arrive and liberate long surpressed ethnic Russian minority from evil American Imperilist bla bla bla.

Crime A pays for Slav Russians.

Sorry, dear, I never claimed that Kosovo was Albanian in the 12th, 14th, 15th century or whatever? If you are claiming that, please provide proof.

Also I never claimed that Kosovo was ever independent before, so, again, if you are claiming that, please provide proof.

Also, not sure Serbs have any proof that there is any Serb evidence that goes back to the point when Kosovo came into existence in 5.000.000.000 BC, but I might be wrong and you do have the proof :) Also, nobody has provided any proof that Kosovo was always dependent - dependent on what, btw :)
(icj1, 20 March 2014 04:18)

Kosovo fully agrees with you here. Kosovo also voted to correct the dictatorial fait accompli which made Kosovo part of Serbia in the past without a referendum.
(icj1, 19 March 2014 04:08)

We all know what you're implying here, and this was your response to Leonidas. There was no dictorial fait accompli corrected here, and my point above stands as to why. Kosovo was never independent, never part of Albania, and doesn't have the evidence and history to back up any such claims. We do know it was part of Serbia and with that fact, your statement to Leonidas is ridiculous. Then you go on with your creation of the world, 5,000,000,000 b.c. Hey, in that case, nothing belongs to anybody!

Putin did say that the option to send the military in regions where Russians are a minority is open.
(Nikolle, 17 March 2014 21:33)

No he didn't,stop fabricating stories.He said there was no need to send troops in Ukraine.

"No he didn't,stop fabricating stories.He said there was no need to send troops in Ukraine."

oh dear. sunshine, his actual words "...military force would be 'last resort' in Ukraine". before that, he used the phrase 'for now' not needed. but don't worry, i know you have a hard time comprehending things

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/04/uk-ukraine-idUKBREA1H0EM20140304

Putin did say that the option to send the military in regions where Russians are a minority is open.
(Nikolle, 17 March 2014 21:33)

"he would use force in Ukraine only as a last resort",

Nikolle

Both the above do have the same meaning,haven't they?My suggestion to you is to think before you post.

Nikolle, 18 March 2014 10:16)

Yes I see the error of my ways. The US, in debt to the tune of 18 trillion now and by December it will be 19 trillion, plus closure of bases throughout the US/overseas and downsizing its standing army from 800 000 to 400 000, and that is only the start as with each future budget it will have reduce its defence spending as printing money is no longer an option unless they want hyperinflation in the US. I now see my error.
Russia was in no position to fight anyone in 1999, but how the penny has turned. If you think that the US would not take on Russia if she was weak then you are fantasising. For that matter Crimea is very important – NATO wanted that peninsular as part of its expansion further into Asia and encirclement plans of Russia.

(Leonidas, 19 March 2014 08:46)

You are right. Its worse than many realise. $200 Trillion, which includes future unfunded liabilites, is a mind bending figure and hard to imagine what it even looks like since the average person working in a store will earn less than $1 million in a working life time.
There is no way out of this mess for the US, but down. The Crimea crises has put the spot light on US ability to act and it has failed miserably. In fact even with the EU to help its failed. The only part left is to play the last post and bury the US.

Please tell us all here when was Kosovo ever independent before? When was it Albania? What map can I look it that shows it as Albania? What Albanian structures are there from the 12th, 14th, 15th century? What evidence have you left there that goes back centuries and centuries?
(Aleks, 19 March 2014 15:21)

Sorry, dear, I never claimed that Kosovo was Albanian in the 12th, 14th, 15th century or whatever? If you are claiming that, please provide proof.

Also I never claimed that Kosovo was ever independent before, so, again, if you are claiming that, please provide proof.

Also, not sure Serbs have any proof that there is any Serb evidence that goes back to the point when Kosovo came into existence in 5.000.000.000 BC, but I might be wrong and you do have the proof :) Also, nobody has provided any proof that Kosovo was always dependent - dependent on what, btw :)

How can you have 97% for Russian occupation and 3% not in favour when, just for instance, 13% of the population are Tartars vehemently oppposed to the Russians.."

Read the article.

headline: '96.76 percent of Crimeans vote in favor of joining Russia'

In the text 'The turnout was 83 percent - a high number considering that many announced a boycott of the referendum.'


Saakasvili was elected as President on 97% of the vote. Looks like everyone forgot that one. Ah, but he is the right person, not the wrong person. Obviously

It is the Tatars and Ukrainians of Crimea I feel sorry for. At least with Russia's occupation of Crimea, there is no chance in hell of the Party of Regions winning the election in May.
(Ian, UK, 17 March 2014 11:35)

Shame you don't feel the same about Serbs who suffered in Sarajevo, Operation Storm, Jasenovac, Srebrenica and Bratunac pre Maldic conquest of the area also the 100 years in Kosovo and 99 and 2004

Go back to the circus mate or back up the hills where you belong mate! P.s. My invite to meet me in Halifax still open unless you don't wanna meet the truth?!

Similar to what Putin is doing now. Appear like a patriot who is standing up to the west, never mind that like the Ukranian president he has been accumulating massive wealth through crime, corruption, political imprisonment and murder. This is the real reason behind the issue. Putin is pre-empting discontent in Russia by appearing like a patriot. He fears he would have the same fate as his Ukranian counterpart. Maybe even worse. But if that's what the Russians and Crimeans want then who am I to judge?
(J, 17 March 2014 15:49)

That's what some people want us to believe and accept without question. Any one witha modicum of critical thinking and actual interest in what is going on knows that these simple explinations only serve a propganda interest.

Parroting somebody elses words is not going to win any prizes. It just shows that some peoplehave no interest in looking past their own noses. They should be ignored.

(sj, 17 March 2014 22:11)
Could not tell whether you were answering me or 15 other people as you rambled around. I have no idea what you are talking about the China Foreign ministry site but I can only conclude it contradicts what you are saying(as usual).
The watering down of the resolution to gain China approval is no secret but it was to condemn Russia for their actions without approving any type of military intervention. China does not want a 3rd WW either.
Have you ever seen a map of the world. You keep saying Crimea is the door to Europe, please it is a peninsula that sticks out into the Black Sea , China has to cross 5-6 countries plus a huge part of Russia to even get to it then it is easier to go around it than to cross it.
The US would not launch an invasion against Russia unless it had a direct threat to the US, that was true during the cold war, during the weak years of Russia, and true now as we enter the new cold war. Same with Russia as seen during the Cuban missle crisis. And the reason Russia pulled back out of Kosovo as NATO air strikes were under way.
Now for the big one you have no clue about the country you were supposedly born in if you do not think they would align with the west during a 3rd world war!

Hahaha scared?! No i just dont want your venom near my church thats all like i said meet me in Halifax not my church or i could come up to Oxenhope go past there a few times must say you really live up to the reputation of inbreeding up there !

Ian
Like i said you live up to the reputation of inbreeding in Oxenhope, read up Gerhard Schröder latest view on Kosovo and byway yes they did as UN did not give permission to bomb or military intervene Serbia and Montenegro thus breaking international law. I mean you have serious issues regarding Serbs so im assuming you went to Greece one summer got drunk mouthed off and a Serb put you in your place, or maybe Albanian friends or did you meet your new best friends on here YIPPEE Friends! Or sexually frustrated dont worry mate will have a whip round and send you to Amsterdam might release the small man syndrome in you. Like i said before your not from Balkans and you know nothing except what BBC news has told you or some dumb idiot friend you made at uni go away little man and play on the moors by yourself by the way does these mean anything to you?!
KosovoNews Redaktion
Levizja Pan Came

PS I ll tell Arian and Ardit you said hi when there cleaning my German whip opaaaa!!!

Exactly Leonidas.

Russia has not done to Crimea what Turkey did to Cyprus. Firstly Turkey invaded a UN member in an act of aggression against its population. Divided the country expelled the indigenous population from one half and re-populated it with Turkish settlers. As could not annex the territory outright it is set up a parastate on its territory.

One can disagree with the way the Russian have conducted themselves, however even if the referendum had conducted under say - Swiss standards of openness it would still have had the same result. Tell me, did anyone ask the population if they wanted to join Ukraine in 1954?

All the USA fanboys winging about Russia should look to the beloved country. How did Texas and California become part of the USA? Washington sent settlers to colonise these states that belonged to Mexico, they then declared 'independence' and then were annexed by the USA.

Which two referendums are you referring to? Please enlighten me.

(Ian, UK, 17 March 2014 15:25)

Seriously, which 2 referendums? LOL. It's quite obvious I'm talking about the referendum for Kosovo and Crimea. You also have to be completely ridiculous, stupid, or ignorant to compare the Crimea situation to Hitler and Nazi Germany. They are absolutely not the same, in any way. Unless the US, NATO, and EU sponsored a coup to overthrow a legally elected government to install their own puppet government with the hopes of pulling Ukraine to the west and building up military bases there and having control of their assets too (think Ukraine's gas lines). So Putin has done nothing but responded to the situation, and really, he had no other play. It's politics, and politics is the devil. It convinces normal people to do the 'leaders' evil deeds.

As for military occupation and your disagreement with it... The Kosovo referendum vote was also heavily under duress. The KLA was thugging around in the same manner as the un-uniformed Russians and didn't hesistate to beat or kill their own people who voiced anything against the KLA or Kosovo independence. The real fact is, the large majority of Crimeans want to break away. I am of the belief you respect the laws of the country you live in.I don't get why Albanians here are against that independence but were for it when they did it. Same with you Ian...double standards.

"...but it has had its day in the sun.."

yep, the US is now in the unenviable position of not being able to win. if it strikes, its imperialist, if it does nothing, its weak. the US is not about to risk nuclear war for Ukraine, and that is a good thing. for the exact reason, Russia, will not risk war for the sake of Serbia. you tell me of a way to engage in military action with Russia without the risk of atom bombs

Really? Many ballot papers were already filled in three days ago, two days before the voting even started. There were massive piles of completed ballot papers all with a tick in favour of joining Russia. No wonder the Russian army wouldn't allow the OSCE into Crimea. This is why officially there was a turnout of over 80%, despite a massive boycott.


Not only did the russians want OSCE to come, they also invited them but they refused to come. Oh and by the way didnt you say that if the majority of the people in a certain part of a country wants to break away that you support them? I guess thats only when its about albanians and not Russians or Serbs. Hypocrite. Last but not least the russians didnt invade Crimea, it was the people of crimea that called for their help.
(Daniel, 17 March 2014 17:03)

Daniel, you got it all wrong. The Crimean authorities did not allow in an OSCE mission with military observers from across the organisation (including Russia). Meanwhile, the Crimean authorities and Moscow wanted the OSCE to send election observers to monitor the Crimean referendum. As an inter-state organisation, this is something the OSCE can't do. The OSCE only observers election upon an invitation from the state concerned, i.e. Ukraine. For the same reason, the OSCE does not monitor elections in Kosovo, as Kosovo is not a member state of the OSCE. The OSCE mission in Kosovo is there and can only operate with the blessing of Belgrade.

(sj, 18 March 2014 22:29)

I think you're too kind to Yanks.Total US debt is calculated at ten times the official one:

http://usawatchdog.com/america-in-worse-fiscal-shape-than-detroit-professor-laurence-kotlikoff/