"Genocide as tool of ethnic cleansing"

Sounds like a compelling case to me. Congratulations Mr. Obradovic. Let's just hope the judges haven't already been got at and have the guts to give Croatia the same lecture that should have been given to them at Nuremburg after WW2.

Len with every breath you take you spew out more racist bile. I couldn't resist seeing the link. Wow Croat houses destroyed...........really ...I think you'll find they belong to Ustashe sympathisers and don't make out your lot didn't do the same to Serb houses i can show you thousands of pictures of your handiwork.Your lot started the war I know I was there in 1990 when dear old Tudjman was spouting out similar racist dogma, which,if he hadn't started there would not have been any problem except that is for the likes of you who would still be racist regardless.Your case at the tribunal is lost the only way you'll win is if the " international community" have knobbled the judges,which regrettably is more than likely. They've been doing it for years in the Hague. Luckily on this occasion there's no Serb individuals on trial as one would have to question if they did have a case would they live to see the judgment. I doubt it.

Lenny, why did you run away from the other thread without answering my questions? You have a pattern and that is to make ridiculous claims and comments and then when challenged, you run away to stir the pot somewhere else.

I'm not sure what's more pathetic, your writing skills or your delusional comments.

Oh, and it would be rude of me not to ask how your realatives are doing? You know the ones formerly of Bosnia, now the RSK. Cheers!

Without a due overview of that background, a court of law cannot fully understand how a spiral of crimes between Croats and Serbs developed and kept going on for such a long time in history, in spite of the decades of the seemingly peaceful socialist rule, and how that spiral reached its peak in Operation Storm in 1995," Obradović said. Serbs are so hilarious especialy the ones from Belgrade. That always start troubles with their neighbors by using Serb minority minions in other countrys to make a greater criminal Serbia as usual. When it backfires woes me the poor inocent Serb of there own stupidity of crimes. This is what the Croatians returned to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rzQq846Yn8&feature=related in 25% of Croatia. In totaly ethnic cleansed of Croatians and other nationaleties. Piliged burned destroyed homes, buisneses, churches etc mass graves. Even some people said bad things of Serbs and Serbia boo hoo hoo Im all in tears LOL. Poor Serbs that 96% of them are convicted war criminals of ex Yugo. The so inocent self described heavenly Serbs ,but so earthly no good. The judges must be rolling their eyes when ever the Serb loser legal team speaks nonsences of made up pathetic drible.

Hey Lenard, In these here nearing "end" times, y'all need to build yourselves a big ship. Something in line with Noah's Ark for those Crows that can't fly far or swim. Y'all can call her Nazi's Ark. Bring plenty of Kleenex and buckets onboard so y'all don't drown from crying like y'all almost did when Tudjman died and your blood-thirsty general got convicted.

The US already admitted that it made a mistake by participating in Operation Storm. They claim lack of and faulty
intelligence on their part. In any event, the US washed its hands of Operation Storm like Pontius Pilate washed his hands of Christ's crucifixion, while you Nazi lovers choose to celebrate the godless act and continue with your public displays of hatred at pro-Nazi concerts and destroying signs written in Cyrillic etc. and violating the human rights of Serbs. Maybe the US finally discovered what you Nazis did with their downed pilots in WW2.

Those in the know see most of you as a sad bunch of hateful, non-repenting, Holocaust denying, Nazi offspring that's being brainwashed by Nazi Cardinal Stepinac's Ustasha priests and other sick in the brain Hitler-loving Nazis. http://www.balkanstudies.org/blog/holocaust-deniers-us-state-department

Lenny, your own words prove my point. Why did Hitler put a reward on Mihailovich's head if he was a Nazi collaborator? You said: Because they did not want any millitary orginization either partizan or fascist chetnik except theirs. They put a bounty on Tito to. Why then did they not put a bounty on Pavelic's head who led the exclusively Croatian Ustasha? I thought they didn't want any other military organization.

Why did Mihailovich and his Chetniks save over 500 downed US airmen if they were Nazi collaborators? You said: Because they were paid in gold for every returned pilot. The partizans rescued down pilots also. False Lenny. I've talked personally with some of the downed airmen saved by the Chetniks. They completely deny what you have said. How many of the families have YOU spoken with? The Chetnik rescue is still the largest of US forces trapped behind enemy lines.

Why did Hitler bomb Belgrade if Serbs were collaborators? Zagreb remained unscathed. Because the royal Serb despot goverment was about to sign a pact with Hitler. Correct Lenny. And after the neutrality pact was signed the Serbs staged a coup and chose to fight the Nazis against insurmountable odds. The Croats on the other hand embraced the Nazis and welcomed them into Zagreb with no resistance at all. No resistance from the only 100% Croat fighting force, the Ustasha. How many of your relatives were Ustasha Lenny?

You forgot to answer one question: How are your relatives formerly of B-H doing?

Sounds like a compelling case to me. Congratulations Mr. Obradovic. Let's just hope the judges haven't already been got at and have the guts to give Croatia the same lecture that should have been given to them at Nuremburg after WW2.
(New Dawn, 14 March 2014 12:32)

Wow really? A huge amount of Ustase collaborators were killed by the partisans so I'd say their was justice.
Bleiburg Massacre;
Milko Mikola, indicating that the victims were executed en masse without a trial,[76] and Jerca Vodušek Starič who wrote about the mass killings following liberation of Slovenia and Croatia in May 1945: "It is impossible to find out the exact number of those liquidated. Today the number reaches 14,531 Slovenes and an estimate 65,000 to 100,000 Croats (mainly the Croat Home-guard, which was the regular army and not ustasha forces). Among them were also civilians.

In Serbia, around 23,000-24,000 Serbs and around 80,000-100,000 Germans were killed for collaborating with Chetniks and Nazis.

Out of all the Croats, Serbs and Germans and Hungarians killed by the Partisans, many were killed simply for not being members even if there was no proof they were with the Nazis. I'd say the Partisans took it a step way up from Nuremberg Trials. Is that enough blood for you?

Lennie says, "The judges must be rolling their eyes when ever the Serb loser legal team speaks nonsences of made up pathetic drible."

Here you go Lennie ... The people must be rolling their eyes whenever croatian Lennie, the loser, speaks nonsense of made up and (hate-filled)pathetic dribble.

I thought you were joking with your ridiculos ranting and ravins here is your answers. Answer please Lenard: Why did Hitler put a reward on Mihailovich's head if he was a Nazi collaborator? Because they did not want any millitary orginization either partizan or fascist chetnik except theirs. They put a bounty on Tito to.

Why did Mihailovich and his Chetniks save over 500 downed US airmen if they were Nazi collaborators? Because they were paid in gold for every returned pilot. The partizans rescued down pilots also. The Partisans were responsible for the successful and sustained evacuation of downed Allied airmen from the Balkans. For example, between 1 January and 15 October 1944, according to statistics compiled by the US Air Force Air Crew Rescue Unit, 1,152 American airmen were airlifted from Yugoslavia, 795 with Partisan assistance and 356 with the help of the Chetniks. Yugoslav Partisans in Slovene territory rescued 303 American airmen, 389 British airmen and prisoners of war, and 120 French and other prisoners of war and slave laborers.
Why did Hitler bomb Belgrade if Serbs were collaborators? Zagreb remained unscathed. Because the royal Serb despot goverment was about to sign a pact with Hitler. The British agents had the young nieve Serb officers make a cou. British promising to help like they did Poland before lol. That infuriated Hitler and his time table plans as a punishment he bombed Belgrade. Very simple njegos.
(njegos, 13 March 2014 16:32)

Jack34 actually no it isn't and I think those statistics are Ustashe propaganda and have no base in truth. Tito did murder many freedom fighters but these according to,not me,but the British Special Ops Executive were predominantly Serbian Chetniks. That's right freedom fighters not collaborators like the scum that sent nearly 1,000,000 Serbian civilians to their deaths in Jasenovac,Jadavno or killed them in their own homes. Until those crimes are answered for you have no claim to the moral high ground my friend.

njegos - you said "Lenny why did you run away from the other thread without answering my questions? You have a pattern and that is to make ridiculous claims and comments and then when challenged, you run away to stir the pot somewhere else."

In life there are several strange people we come across, you are one of them. You always think you're smart and that you've schooled someone but you're clearly the dumbest person on this site. A few months back I had you backpeddling, deflecting and you resulted back to WW11...Ustase, Jasenovac and so on. Thats a simple minded persons answer to everything, when in doubt, repeat the same thing you've been saying over and over again, deflect the topic you are continually losing and make statement to appear as if Serbs and Serbia is somehow a respected people/nation...the truth is some Serbs are wonderful people, but those like you are an embarassment to your population.

Croatia have made their mistakes, but history is on our side...I'm certain you know this and I know you continue to revert back to the 40's because recent history isnt a very good picture for your kind and you're hoping people dont know enough of WW11 and that they may have this guilt that Croats were in the "wrong" on a massive level???? 1 million Serbs? I'm laughing right now....this number has climbed from 30,000 to 1 million and inbetween...keep telling your stories cedo...Serbs believe you...nobody else cares!

njegos- if you are suggesting there is relationship to this past war and WW11 I would agree with you, Serbs tried hard to pay back for Jasenovac where 30,000 perished. They succeeded in a few areas ie Vukovar, Srebrenica, many parts of Slavonija and BiH.

In the end, we succeeded in removing the Cetniks from our land, we are happy for the removal of Cyrilica in Vukovar and Serbs are welcome to stay as long as they realize they are in Croatia, not the future home of Serbia!

I've had many laughs at your comments but I have a career I must take care of, this is leasure time for me...when I can comment I may, otherwise I laugh at your hilarious comments!

Serbia will never be an EU member, they have decades before they'd change the necessary...with that said, they most likely enjoy living like the "wild west"...its a whole lot easier for them.

I was recently in Beograd visiting an old friend while I was on business, he took me out for a fantastic night...we ate and drank, sang songs...enjoyed company with beautiful Serbian women and it was life as usual! Its far different than Croatia, although I enjoyed it, I found it primitive, sorta like 1970's Yugo...good food...backwards society!

the funny thing...even Serbs realize they are backwards but wouldnt change it for anything!

From Croatian Canadian: "...Serbs tried hard to pay back for Jasenovac where 30,000 perished."

You claim my comments are hilarious. If your above statement wasn't so sad, it would be hilarious. Where do you get your statistics, the Franjo Tudjman book of historical revisionism? The fact that the vast majority of Croats minimize and deny the Ustasha attempt to exterminate all Serbs on Croatian soil during WWII is at the root of Serb - Croat discord. It was the official policy of the Croat gov't. You claim to travel on business. Might I suggest a trip to Washington, DC to the Holocaust Museum to research the number killed at Jasenovac. There are countless other credible sources who refute your statements.

You said: "In the end, we succeeded in removing the Cetniks from our land, we are happy for the removal of Cyrilica in Vukovar"

Correction, you removed virtually ALL Serbs. You say Belgrade is backward, yet minorities live there in peace. In Croatia, there are NO minorities. Croatia has fewer minorities than any country in Europe. Something to be proud of. With the removal of the Cyrillic script, you violated your own constitution. Very progressive. Sounds to me like Croatia is a bit backward.

You claim to have a career, as do I. The difference it seems is that I call my own shots. You obviously work for someone which is a common Croatian characteristic. Get some sleep, I'm sure you have to get up early to make money for your boss.

Croatian Canadian - You can deny that your countrymen ethnically cleansed Serbs from Croatia all you want. If it helps you to feel better about what happened, have at it. The reality is that the JNA abandoned the Krajina Serbs on orders from Milosevic. The Serbs that remained were primarily the elderly, women and children. They were not soldiers for the most part and were not equipped to resist an attack by the Croatian army. Therefore, they organized an exodus rather than be killed by the Croats. Your brave Croatian army then proceeded to kill more than 1,800 unarmed Serbs, mostly civilians, as they exited with their belongings on their tractors. And for this, your brave countrymen celebrate a great military victory. I'm sure you will deny this also, but this is well documented by international authorities. And if that wasn't enough, in the days following the exodus, the Croats then proceeded to kill many of the remaining elderly and sick Serbs who couldn't leave. Most by slitting their throats. They also looted Serb homes and burned many of them to the ground. This was ethnic cleansing by any definition. You can celebrate your military victory of old men and women unarmed and on tractors since that is as close to a military victory as Croatia will ever get.

And now Croatia is doing everything in their power to prevent Serbs from returning. You know it and so do I.

This whole trial is a waste of time and money and will only dig up nationalistic hatred from the past. Both sides are to blame in the war. What good does this trial do? While Serbia and Croatia pay fat cat lawyers to point their fingers at the other guy, each country has citizens that cant find work or even buy a whole loaf of bread. A trial about the past will not fix the problems both countries have now.

"The US already admitted that it made a mistake by participating in Operation Storm."

Where? It's the first I've ever heard of it.

Amer, scroll the blue button to minute 29:55 and watch until 33:00.http://www.c-span.org/video/?315370-1/bosnia-intelligence-clinton-presidency

Amer, scroll the blue button to minute 29:55 and watch until 33:00.[link]
(Billy Why,Texas, 17 March 2014 14:57)
Apparently you suffer from selective hearing. From what I heard they made some mistakes in judgement relying on sketchy intelligence not that they made a mistake in participating nor their goals. Before that you hear the question why they could not have anticipated and prevented the Srebrenica massacre.
Another example of where you can take any speech and article and pick out pieces to support the argument you want even if it is meant to mean exactly the opposite.
To my knowledge the US has never taken the official stance that either Bosnia nor Kosovo was a mistake.
You find an individual here or there that may express their personal opinion to the contrary but that is one of the blessings of being in a free country.

From Croatian Canadian: "... A few months back I had you backpeddling, deflecting and you resulted back to WW11...Ustase, Jasenovac and so on."

Well, Croatian Canadian, if you had me back peddling (it's 2 words for your info), where have you been? Seems you've back peddled yourself right off this board. You had me back peddling so much I don't even remember you.

Again from Croatian Canadian:"...you continue to revert back to the 40's because recent history isnt a very good picture for your kind and you're hoping people dont know enough of WW11 and that they may have this guilt that Croats were in the "wrong" on a massive level????"

To the contrary. To understand the current state of Serb-Croat relations and the war of the 90s one has to understand WWII. You don't like it, because your people were aligned with the Nazis and yet you claim history is on your side. If that isn't convoluted thinking, I don't know what is. You want to wipe that period from Croatian history, but your leaders rename streets after Ustasha war criminals and your sports heroes make Nazi salutes and chant Nazi Ustasha slogans. As much as you would like to erase the memory of what Croatia did in WWII, there are many more Croats who want to remember and honor the Ustasha in today's Croatia. Time for you to get in touch with reality Croatian Canadian. Or maybe its time for you to back peddle your way off this board again.

njegos- there is some merit to what you are saying BUT you are missing the point of what Croatians think....after all, if you are human you have to respect the fact that Krajina IS Croatia and considering the atrocities that went on in Vukovar and the fact that 1 day prior to the Croatia's military entering the Krajina area...there was Serb militia and JNA presence there.

I added Milosevic's quote so you could see that there was a clear frustration on his part...he wanted Serbs to stay and fight...for what? To keep Krajina as a part of Serbia? You said: "they organized an exodus rather than be killed by the Croats."...this was war njegos...it wasn't genocide...Croatia owns that part of the region and merely fought to get it back, if you think its unjust then you are wearing your "homer glasses"! Every Nation is entitled to fight for their territory.

You also said:"your brave countrymen celebrate a great military victory" - Croatians celebrate "Oluja"...it was the battle that gained "BACK" the territory, its you that thinks anyone celebrates we celebrate something else...and its also you who isn't logical enough to realize Croatians have a right to celebrate winning back an area where Serbs claimed as their own!

As far as your comment that Milosevic ordered people to leave? Then why did he say they ran like rabbits? They ran because they knew there would be retribution...your military wont fight evenly matched!

BTW - Gotovina = Innocent! no genocide from Croatians!

From Croatian Canadian: "I've noticed when you write your comments you cannot ever be objective...I've never once seen you write anything that would suggest Serbs have done wrong!"

On the contrary. I have stated several times that this was a 3-way civil war where there were no good guys. My issue is with uninformed people placing all the blame on Serbs. As you said yourself, that just isn't possible.

I condemn in the strongest terms the actions of Arkan. He was a criminal out for his own gain. He robbed and killed Serbs just as he did Croats and Muslims. I also had no use for Milosevic. Were atrocities committed by Serbs? Absolutely. And those that committed them should be punished. Serbia has and is prosecuting their war criminals. Croatia makes very little effort to do the same. I read where at its current pace, it will take Croatia 180 years to get through its case load of suspected war criminals.

You said: "My family were Ustase, my grandfather was against murdering innocence, his brother was the same..."

Look, I know WWII was very complex in Yugoslavia. However, it is difficult for me to understand how any decent individual could fight for a regime whose stated policy was to exterminate another ethnic group. I don't mean to simplify things, but I don't understand that.

My family were Chetniks. Did some rogue Chetnik groups do bad things? Yes, but the organization's official policy was not to eradicate another group.

njegos- "Correction, you removed virtually ALL Serbs". - This is a matter of how you see it vs how it was!

Here is a direct quote I took from a Serbian website:

"Molim vas, 6 hiljada Hrvata je branilo Vukovar pola godine; napadala je cela Prva armija, vazduhoplovstvo, čudo, sva sila koju je imala JNA, a oni nisu odbranili Knin, kojem se može prići samo iz tri pravca; nisu ga mogli braniti ni 12 sati!?
Oni ga nisu branili, jer po svim izveštajima koje smo dobili od policajaca, građana i ostalih, čim je prestala artiljerijska priprema u sedam uveče, oni su naredili - bežaniju! Prema tome, tu nije bilo nikakvog otpora niti je bilo borbenog dodira sa hrvatskim snagama. (...) - Tamo je palo naređenje da svi izađu iz Krajine istog dana, čak bez stvorenog kontakta sa hrvatskom vojskom na najvećem delu fronta. Da smo istog tog dana napravili idiotsku glupost da im pomognemo, ko bi to stigao do Knina do večeri da im pomogne?! Pa, tamo ne bi moglo da se stigne od njihovih kolona kojima su zakrčili sve putove u bežaniji zajedno sa stanovništvom. (...) Pitanje je ko je, zaista, doneo odluku da krajiško rukovodstvo napusti Krajinu? Takva odluka, kada su imali sve uslove da se brane, izazvala je egzodus. Sada to treba da bude razlog da Jugoslavija jurne tamo da brani te teritorije, sa kojih su oni utekli kao zečevi?"

Your people suffered because of their own political and collaborative wrongdoings. Some was revenge, I dont agree with it but it happened...

njegos- I've noticed when you write your comments you cannot ever be objective...I've never once seen you write anything that would suggest Serbs have done wrong! Its this type of behavior that will forever divide people and its also very telling of your mentality...oni su krivi za sve...and that just isnt possible.

Any time we speak of anything regarding Serbs wrongdoings you have brought up WW11. You know this is a very complex topic and more than just Jasenovac...there were tons of brutal atrocities, there were tons of injustices committed to innocent people and there were brutal people making brutal decisions...any person logical would know that! With all that said, there are versions...each nation and people have their versions and justifications for how they reacted or strategized or aligned themselves...were they right in how they saw things? I think it depends who you ask!

My family were Ustase, my grandfather was against murdering innocence, his brother was the same...they believed they signed up for "freedom" and not murdering Serbs, Jews and Gypsies! My fathers best friend was a "Youth Ustasa" (he was several years older than my father) who distanced himself from Croatia because of the atrocities they committed...he also never signed up to be a murderer...he believed he was fighting for Croatia, their freedom and to keep their identity!

The majority of Croats I know are like us, those that are proud to be murderers will pay the ultimate price in hell!

Croatian Canadian, I appreciate your recent civil post.

It may surprise you to know that I don't hate all Croats. I don't hate all of anything. There are good and bad in all people. Serbs included. Just like you, I am proud of my heritage. My father came to this country with nothing and made a life for himself. Like other immigrants, he learned the language, built churches, kept his culture and traditions alive and raised a family. All while sending money home to his less fortunate siblings in communist Yugoslavia.

You said that the best jobs in your area of Croatia went to Serbs after WWII. I would beg to differ with you on that. They were Yugoslavs. You see, my family that remained in communist Yugoslavia were Serbs, but they were treated as second class citizens because they wouldn't join the party. Although they were educated and capable, they were viewed as nationalists for the very reasons you stated above. My family attended church when it was unpopular. My cousins were taught that their father and uncles were traitors to their country. These weren't Serbs that taught this ideology, they were Yugoslavs. Ethnically they were Serbs, Croatians, Slovenes and Albanians. But ideologically, they were Yugoslavs.

I'm sure that there are many things that we will agree to disagree on, but one commonality that we share is that our families were both discriminated against by the communist regime.

Ustasa was formed for "ustanak"...not extermination! To rise for your cause...if you think for a second that Croatians believe in the extermination of another people then you obviously believe all us Hrvati are evil and that's your personal opinion. I don't believe in those kinds of people, I don't respect them and have met only a handful that have mental issues, just as I've met Cetnici that are hard core!

My father told me Pavelic was a hero to many but a loser to more than people will admit! Croatians are not in favor of murdering, you confuse was with the sick humans from WW11, I know my family history and I know my family are not and never were anti Serbian...as long as Serbs living in Croatia accept we have a right to our identity, our religion and our customs without being reported as they were during the Yugo years!

In my part of Croatia the population was overwhelmingly Croatian and yet most government jobs, chief of police, professors and best jobs were held by Serbs who had a small population. These are issues that create animosity, have an affect on how nationalities are perceived and create division...this was after WW11...you can imagine people were not satisfied...add the fact that if you didn't join the "party" or if you attended "church"...you were reported as a nationalist!

Ustasa was never formed for the purpose of extermination but some sick people did it, what can I tell you, we are not proud of that but we are proud to be Croatians!

whatever the case may have been regarding to "jobs", "positions in government" and just better positions overall, the bottom line is that yes, Serbs that were most likely part of the communist party held the better jobs while they didn't represent even 10% of the population.

regardless njegos, all that is behind us and I can tell you from our perspective...a Croatian perspective...many parts of Croatia are completely normal with regards to relations with Serbs and Serbia, the reason Vukovar isn't yet is because many of those that were involved in the destruction and murders still walk the streets today...and people can't get past that...even if there were 50% population. there hasn't completely been justice for many and arguing over a tablica for most is more symbolic than anything else...you view it as illegal while most of the Croats view it as a moral issue they can't let go of for now!

My wish...would be an immediate coming together of the residents...for them to agree and accept terms, they live there not us. I want Serbs to prosper and live happily, without fear or discrimination...and to feel at home, I want this for everybody and I think its possible!

You think Croats are Ustase, I can tell you, although its part of our history, there were good things Ustase did...and many terrible. Todays Croatians are far less extremist than ever before, they just want their identity and dont want to forget those that perished for our independence!

Without a due overview of that background, a court of law cannot fully understand how a spiral of crimes between Croats and Serbs developed and kept going on for such a long time in history, in spite of the decades of the seemingly peaceful socialist rule, and how that spiral reached its peak in Operation Storm in 1995," Obradović said. Serbs are so hilarious especialy the ones from Belgrade. That always start troubles with their neighbors by using Serb minority minions in other countrys to make a greater criminal Serbia as usual. When it backfires woes me the poor inocent Serb of there own stupidity of crimes. This is what the Croatians returned to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rzQq846Yn8&feature=related in 25% of Croatia. In totaly ethnic cleansed of Croatians and other nationaleties. Piliged burned destroyed homes, buisneses, churches etc mass graves. Even some people said bad things of Serbs and Serbia boo hoo hoo Im all in tears LOL. Poor Serbs that 96% of them are convicted war criminals of ex Yugo. The so inocent self described heavenly Serbs ,but so earthly no good. The judges must be rolling their eyes when ever the Serb loser legal team speaks nonsences of made up pathetic drible.

I thought you were joking with your ridiculos ranting and ravins here is your answers. Answer please Lenard: Why did Hitler put a reward on Mihailovich's head if he was a Nazi collaborator? Because they did not want any millitary orginization either partizan or fascist chetnik except theirs. They put a bounty on Tito to.

Why did Mihailovich and his Chetniks save over 500 downed US airmen if they were Nazi collaborators? Because they were paid in gold for every returned pilot. The partizans rescued down pilots also. The Partisans were responsible for the successful and sustained evacuation of downed Allied airmen from the Balkans. For example, between 1 January and 15 October 1944, according to statistics compiled by the US Air Force Air Crew Rescue Unit, 1,152 American airmen were airlifted from Yugoslavia, 795 with Partisan assistance and 356 with the help of the Chetniks. Yugoslav Partisans in Slovene territory rescued 303 American airmen, 389 British airmen and prisoners of war, and 120 French and other prisoners of war and slave laborers.
Why did Hitler bomb Belgrade if Serbs were collaborators? Zagreb remained unscathed. Because the royal Serb despot goverment was about to sign a pact with Hitler. The British agents had the young nieve Serb officers make a cou. British promising to help like they did Poland before lol. That infuriated Hitler and his time table plans as a punishment he bombed Belgrade. Very simple njegos.
(njegos, 13 March 2014 16:32)

Sounds like a compelling case to me. Congratulations Mr. Obradovic. Let's just hope the judges haven't already been got at and have the guts to give Croatia the same lecture that should have been given to them at Nuremburg after WW2.
(New Dawn, 14 March 2014 12:32)

Wow really? A huge amount of Ustase collaborators were killed by the partisans so I'd say their was justice.
Bleiburg Massacre;
Milko Mikola, indicating that the victims were executed en masse without a trial,[76] and Jerca Vodušek Starič who wrote about the mass killings following liberation of Slovenia and Croatia in May 1945: "It is impossible to find out the exact number of those liquidated. Today the number reaches 14,531 Slovenes and an estimate 65,000 to 100,000 Croats (mainly the Croat Home-guard, which was the regular army and not ustasha forces). Among them were also civilians.

In Serbia, around 23,000-24,000 Serbs and around 80,000-100,000 Germans were killed for collaborating with Chetniks and Nazis.

Out of all the Croats, Serbs and Germans and Hungarians killed by the Partisans, many were killed simply for not being members even if there was no proof they were with the Nazis. I'd say the Partisans took it a step way up from Nuremberg Trials. Is that enough blood for you?

Sounds like a compelling case to me. Congratulations Mr. Obradovic. Let's just hope the judges haven't already been got at and have the guts to give Croatia the same lecture that should have been given to them at Nuremburg after WW2.

Len with every breath you take you spew out more racist bile. I couldn't resist seeing the link. Wow Croat houses destroyed...........really ...I think you'll find they belong to Ustashe sympathisers and don't make out your lot didn't do the same to Serb houses i can show you thousands of pictures of your handiwork.Your lot started the war I know I was there in 1990 when dear old Tudjman was spouting out similar racist dogma, which,if he hadn't started there would not have been any problem except that is for the likes of you who would still be racist regardless.Your case at the tribunal is lost the only way you'll win is if the " international community" have knobbled the judges,which regrettably is more than likely. They've been doing it for years in the Hague. Luckily on this occasion there's no Serb individuals on trial as one would have to question if they did have a case would they live to see the judgment. I doubt it.

Lenny, your own words prove my point. Why did Hitler put a reward on Mihailovich's head if he was a Nazi collaborator? You said: Because they did not want any millitary orginization either partizan or fascist chetnik except theirs. They put a bounty on Tito to. Why then did they not put a bounty on Pavelic's head who led the exclusively Croatian Ustasha? I thought they didn't want any other military organization.

Why did Mihailovich and his Chetniks save over 500 downed US airmen if they were Nazi collaborators? You said: Because they were paid in gold for every returned pilot. The partizans rescued down pilots also. False Lenny. I've talked personally with some of the downed airmen saved by the Chetniks. They completely deny what you have said. How many of the families have YOU spoken with? The Chetnik rescue is still the largest of US forces trapped behind enemy lines.

Why did Hitler bomb Belgrade if Serbs were collaborators? Zagreb remained unscathed. Because the royal Serb despot goverment was about to sign a pact with Hitler. Correct Lenny. And after the neutrality pact was signed the Serbs staged a coup and chose to fight the Nazis against insurmountable odds. The Croats on the other hand embraced the Nazis and welcomed them into Zagreb with no resistance at all. No resistance from the only 100% Croat fighting force, the Ustasha. How many of your relatives were Ustasha Lenny?

You forgot to answer one question: How are your relatives formerly of B-H doing?

This whole trial is a waste of time and money and will only dig up nationalistic hatred from the past. Both sides are to blame in the war. What good does this trial do? While Serbia and Croatia pay fat cat lawyers to point their fingers at the other guy, each country has citizens that cant find work or even buy a whole loaf of bread. A trial about the past will not fix the problems both countries have now.

Lenny, why did you run away from the other thread without answering my questions? You have a pattern and that is to make ridiculous claims and comments and then when challenged, you run away to stir the pot somewhere else.

I'm not sure what's more pathetic, your writing skills or your delusional comments.

Oh, and it would be rude of me not to ask how your realatives are doing? You know the ones formerly of Bosnia, now the RSK. Cheers!

Jack34 actually no it isn't and I think those statistics are Ustashe propaganda and have no base in truth. Tito did murder many freedom fighters but these according to,not me,but the British Special Ops Executive were predominantly Serbian Chetniks. That's right freedom fighters not collaborators like the scum that sent nearly 1,000,000 Serbian civilians to their deaths in Jasenovac,Jadavno or killed them in their own homes. Until those crimes are answered for you have no claim to the moral high ground my friend.

Hey Lenard, In these here nearing "end" times, y'all need to build yourselves a big ship. Something in line with Noah's Ark for those Crows that can't fly far or swim. Y'all can call her Nazi's Ark. Bring plenty of Kleenex and buckets onboard so y'all don't drown from crying like y'all almost did when Tudjman died and your blood-thirsty general got convicted.

The US already admitted that it made a mistake by participating in Operation Storm. They claim lack of and faulty
intelligence on their part. In any event, the US washed its hands of Operation Storm like Pontius Pilate washed his hands of Christ's crucifixion, while you Nazi lovers choose to celebrate the godless act and continue with your public displays of hatred at pro-Nazi concerts and destroying signs written in Cyrillic etc. and violating the human rights of Serbs. Maybe the US finally discovered what you Nazis did with their downed pilots in WW2.

Those in the know see most of you as a sad bunch of hateful, non-repenting, Holocaust denying, Nazi offspring that's being brainwashed by Nazi Cardinal Stepinac's Ustasha priests and other sick in the brain Hitler-loving Nazis. http://www.balkanstudies.org/blog/holocaust-deniers-us-state-department

"The US already admitted that it made a mistake by participating in Operation Storm."

Where? It's the first I've ever heard of it.

njegos - you said "Lenny why did you run away from the other thread without answering my questions? You have a pattern and that is to make ridiculous claims and comments and then when challenged, you run away to stir the pot somewhere else."

In life there are several strange people we come across, you are one of them. You always think you're smart and that you've schooled someone but you're clearly the dumbest person on this site. A few months back I had you backpeddling, deflecting and you resulted back to WW11...Ustase, Jasenovac and so on. Thats a simple minded persons answer to everything, when in doubt, repeat the same thing you've been saying over and over again, deflect the topic you are continually losing and make statement to appear as if Serbs and Serbia is somehow a respected people/nation...the truth is some Serbs are wonderful people, but those like you are an embarassment to your population.

Croatia have made their mistakes, but history is on our side...I'm certain you know this and I know you continue to revert back to the 40's because recent history isnt a very good picture for your kind and you're hoping people dont know enough of WW11 and that they may have this guilt that Croats were in the "wrong" on a massive level???? 1 million Serbs? I'm laughing right now....this number has climbed from 30,000 to 1 million and inbetween...keep telling your stories cedo...Serbs believe you...nobody else cares!

Lennie says, "The judges must be rolling their eyes when ever the Serb loser legal team speaks nonsences of made up pathetic drible."

Here you go Lennie ... The people must be rolling their eyes whenever croatian Lennie, the loser, speaks nonsense of made up and (hate-filled)pathetic dribble.

From Croatian Canadian: "... A few months back I had you backpeddling, deflecting and you resulted back to WW11...Ustase, Jasenovac and so on."

Well, Croatian Canadian, if you had me back peddling (it's 2 words for your info), where have you been? Seems you've back peddled yourself right off this board. You had me back peddling so much I don't even remember you.

Again from Croatian Canadian:"...you continue to revert back to the 40's because recent history isnt a very good picture for your kind and you're hoping people dont know enough of WW11 and that they may have this guilt that Croats were in the "wrong" on a massive level????"

To the contrary. To understand the current state of Serb-Croat relations and the war of the 90s one has to understand WWII. You don't like it, because your people were aligned with the Nazis and yet you claim history is on your side. If that isn't convoluted thinking, I don't know what is. You want to wipe that period from Croatian history, but your leaders rename streets after Ustasha war criminals and your sports heroes make Nazi salutes and chant Nazi Ustasha slogans. As much as you would like to erase the memory of what Croatia did in WWII, there are many more Croats who want to remember and honor the Ustasha in today's Croatia. Time for you to get in touch with reality Croatian Canadian. Or maybe its time for you to back peddle your way off this board again.

njegos- there is some merit to what you are saying BUT you are missing the point of what Croatians think....after all, if you are human you have to respect the fact that Krajina IS Croatia and considering the atrocities that went on in Vukovar and the fact that 1 day prior to the Croatia's military entering the Krajina area...there was Serb militia and JNA presence there.

I added Milosevic's quote so you could see that there was a clear frustration on his part...he wanted Serbs to stay and fight...for what? To keep Krajina as a part of Serbia? You said: "they organized an exodus rather than be killed by the Croats."...this was war njegos...it wasn't genocide...Croatia owns that part of the region and merely fought to get it back, if you think its unjust then you are wearing your "homer glasses"! Every Nation is entitled to fight for their territory.

You also said:"your brave countrymen celebrate a great military victory" - Croatians celebrate "Oluja"...it was the battle that gained "BACK" the territory, its you that thinks anyone celebrates we celebrate something else...and its also you who isn't logical enough to realize Croatians have a right to celebrate winning back an area where Serbs claimed as their own!

As far as your comment that Milosevic ordered people to leave? Then why did he say they ran like rabbits? They ran because they knew there would be retribution...your military wont fight evenly matched!

BTW - Gotovina = Innocent! no genocide from Croatians!

njegos- I've noticed when you write your comments you cannot ever be objective...I've never once seen you write anything that would suggest Serbs have done wrong! Its this type of behavior that will forever divide people and its also very telling of your mentality...oni su krivi za sve...and that just isnt possible.

Any time we speak of anything regarding Serbs wrongdoings you have brought up WW11. You know this is a very complex topic and more than just Jasenovac...there were tons of brutal atrocities, there were tons of injustices committed to innocent people and there were brutal people making brutal decisions...any person logical would know that! With all that said, there are versions...each nation and people have their versions and justifications for how they reacted or strategized or aligned themselves...were they right in how they saw things? I think it depends who you ask!

My family were Ustase, my grandfather was against murdering innocence, his brother was the same...they believed they signed up for "freedom" and not murdering Serbs, Jews and Gypsies! My fathers best friend was a "Youth Ustasa" (he was several years older than my father) who distanced himself from Croatia because of the atrocities they committed...he also never signed up to be a murderer...he believed he was fighting for Croatia, their freedom and to keep their identity!

The majority of Croats I know are like us, those that are proud to be murderers will pay the ultimate price in hell!

Amer, scroll the blue button to minute 29:55 and watch until 33:00.http://www.c-span.org/video/?315370-1/bosnia-intelligence-clinton-presidency

Amer, scroll the blue button to minute 29:55 and watch until 33:00.[link]
(Billy Why,Texas, 17 March 2014 14:57)
Apparently you suffer from selective hearing. From what I heard they made some mistakes in judgement relying on sketchy intelligence not that they made a mistake in participating nor their goals. Before that you hear the question why they could not have anticipated and prevented the Srebrenica massacre.
Another example of where you can take any speech and article and pick out pieces to support the argument you want even if it is meant to mean exactly the opposite.
To my knowledge the US has never taken the official stance that either Bosnia nor Kosovo was a mistake.
You find an individual here or there that may express their personal opinion to the contrary but that is one of the blessings of being in a free country.

njegos- if you are suggesting there is relationship to this past war and WW11 I would agree with you, Serbs tried hard to pay back for Jasenovac where 30,000 perished. They succeeded in a few areas ie Vukovar, Srebrenica, many parts of Slavonija and BiH.

In the end, we succeeded in removing the Cetniks from our land, we are happy for the removal of Cyrilica in Vukovar and Serbs are welcome to stay as long as they realize they are in Croatia, not the future home of Serbia!

I've had many laughs at your comments but I have a career I must take care of, this is leasure time for me...when I can comment I may, otherwise I laugh at your hilarious comments!

Serbia will never be an EU member, they have decades before they'd change the necessary...with that said, they most likely enjoy living like the "wild west"...its a whole lot easier for them.

I was recently in Beograd visiting an old friend while I was on business, he took me out for a fantastic night...we ate and drank, sang songs...enjoyed company with beautiful Serbian women and it was life as usual! Its far different than Croatia, although I enjoyed it, I found it primitive, sorta like 1970's Yugo...good food...backwards society!

the funny thing...even Serbs realize they are backwards but wouldnt change it for anything!

From Croatian Canadian: "...Serbs tried hard to pay back for Jasenovac where 30,000 perished."

You claim my comments are hilarious. If your above statement wasn't so sad, it would be hilarious. Where do you get your statistics, the Franjo Tudjman book of historical revisionism? The fact that the vast majority of Croats minimize and deny the Ustasha attempt to exterminate all Serbs on Croatian soil during WWII is at the root of Serb - Croat discord. It was the official policy of the Croat gov't. You claim to travel on business. Might I suggest a trip to Washington, DC to the Holocaust Museum to research the number killed at Jasenovac. There are countless other credible sources who refute your statements.

You said: "In the end, we succeeded in removing the Cetniks from our land, we are happy for the removal of Cyrilica in Vukovar"

Correction, you removed virtually ALL Serbs. You say Belgrade is backward, yet minorities live there in peace. In Croatia, there are NO minorities. Croatia has fewer minorities than any country in Europe. Something to be proud of. With the removal of the Cyrillic script, you violated your own constitution. Very progressive. Sounds to me like Croatia is a bit backward.

You claim to have a career, as do I. The difference it seems is that I call my own shots. You obviously work for someone which is a common Croatian characteristic. Get some sleep, I'm sure you have to get up early to make money for your boss.

Croatian Canadian - You can deny that your countrymen ethnically cleansed Serbs from Croatia all you want. If it helps you to feel better about what happened, have at it. The reality is that the JNA abandoned the Krajina Serbs on orders from Milosevic. The Serbs that remained were primarily the elderly, women and children. They were not soldiers for the most part and were not equipped to resist an attack by the Croatian army. Therefore, they organized an exodus rather than be killed by the Croats. Your brave Croatian army then proceeded to kill more than 1,800 unarmed Serbs, mostly civilians, as they exited with their belongings on their tractors. And for this, your brave countrymen celebrate a great military victory. I'm sure you will deny this also, but this is well documented by international authorities. And if that wasn't enough, in the days following the exodus, the Croats then proceeded to kill many of the remaining elderly and sick Serbs who couldn't leave. Most by slitting their throats. They also looted Serb homes and burned many of them to the ground. This was ethnic cleansing by any definition. You can celebrate your military victory of old men and women unarmed and on tractors since that is as close to a military victory as Croatia will ever get.

And now Croatia is doing everything in their power to prevent Serbs from returning. You know it and so do I.

njegos- "Correction, you removed virtually ALL Serbs". - This is a matter of how you see it vs how it was!

Here is a direct quote I took from a Serbian website:

"Molim vas, 6 hiljada Hrvata je branilo Vukovar pola godine; napadala je cela Prva armija, vazduhoplovstvo, čudo, sva sila koju je imala JNA, a oni nisu odbranili Knin, kojem se može prići samo iz tri pravca; nisu ga mogli braniti ni 12 sati!?
Oni ga nisu branili, jer po svim izveštajima koje smo dobili od policajaca, građana i ostalih, čim je prestala artiljerijska priprema u sedam uveče, oni su naredili - bežaniju! Prema tome, tu nije bilo nikakvog otpora niti je bilo borbenog dodira sa hrvatskim snagama. (...) - Tamo je palo naređenje da svi izađu iz Krajine istog dana, čak bez stvorenog kontakta sa hrvatskom vojskom na najvećem delu fronta. Da smo istog tog dana napravili idiotsku glupost da im pomognemo, ko bi to stigao do Knina do večeri da im pomogne?! Pa, tamo ne bi moglo da se stigne od njihovih kolona kojima su zakrčili sve putove u bežaniji zajedno sa stanovništvom. (...) Pitanje je ko je, zaista, doneo odluku da krajiško rukovodstvo napusti Krajinu? Takva odluka, kada su imali sve uslove da se brane, izazvala je egzodus. Sada to treba da bude razlog da Jugoslavija jurne tamo da brani te teritorije, sa kojih su oni utekli kao zečevi?"

Your people suffered because of their own political and collaborative wrongdoings. Some was revenge, I dont agree with it but it happened...

From Croatian Canadian: "I've noticed when you write your comments you cannot ever be objective...I've never once seen you write anything that would suggest Serbs have done wrong!"

On the contrary. I have stated several times that this was a 3-way civil war where there were no good guys. My issue is with uninformed people placing all the blame on Serbs. As you said yourself, that just isn't possible.

I condemn in the strongest terms the actions of Arkan. He was a criminal out for his own gain. He robbed and killed Serbs just as he did Croats and Muslims. I also had no use for Milosevic. Were atrocities committed by Serbs? Absolutely. And those that committed them should be punished. Serbia has and is prosecuting their war criminals. Croatia makes very little effort to do the same. I read where at its current pace, it will take Croatia 180 years to get through its case load of suspected war criminals.

You said: "My family were Ustase, my grandfather was against murdering innocence, his brother was the same..."

Look, I know WWII was very complex in Yugoslavia. However, it is difficult for me to understand how any decent individual could fight for a regime whose stated policy was to exterminate another ethnic group. I don't mean to simplify things, but I don't understand that.

My family were Chetniks. Did some rogue Chetnik groups do bad things? Yes, but the organization's official policy was not to eradicate another group.

Ustasa was formed for "ustanak"...not extermination! To rise for your cause...if you think for a second that Croatians believe in the extermination of another people then you obviously believe all us Hrvati are evil and that's your personal opinion. I don't believe in those kinds of people, I don't respect them and have met only a handful that have mental issues, just as I've met Cetnici that are hard core!

My father told me Pavelic was a hero to many but a loser to more than people will admit! Croatians are not in favor of murdering, you confuse was with the sick humans from WW11, I know my family history and I know my family are not and never were anti Serbian...as long as Serbs living in Croatia accept we have a right to our identity, our religion and our customs without being reported as they were during the Yugo years!

In my part of Croatia the population was overwhelmingly Croatian and yet most government jobs, chief of police, professors and best jobs were held by Serbs who had a small population. These are issues that create animosity, have an affect on how nationalities are perceived and create division...this was after WW11...you can imagine people were not satisfied...add the fact that if you didn't join the "party" or if you attended "church"...you were reported as a nationalist!

Ustasa was never formed for the purpose of extermination but some sick people did it, what can I tell you, we are not proud of that but we are proud to be Croatians!

Croatian Canadian, I appreciate your recent civil post.

It may surprise you to know that I don't hate all Croats. I don't hate all of anything. There are good and bad in all people. Serbs included. Just like you, I am proud of my heritage. My father came to this country with nothing and made a life for himself. Like other immigrants, he learned the language, built churches, kept his culture and traditions alive and raised a family. All while sending money home to his less fortunate siblings in communist Yugoslavia.

You said that the best jobs in your area of Croatia went to Serbs after WWII. I would beg to differ with you on that. They were Yugoslavs. You see, my family that remained in communist Yugoslavia were Serbs, but they were treated as second class citizens because they wouldn't join the party. Although they were educated and capable, they were viewed as nationalists for the very reasons you stated above. My family attended church when it was unpopular. My cousins were taught that their father and uncles were traitors to their country. These weren't Serbs that taught this ideology, they were Yugoslavs. Ethnically they were Serbs, Croatians, Slovenes and Albanians. But ideologically, they were Yugoslavs.

I'm sure that there are many things that we will agree to disagree on, but one commonality that we share is that our families were both discriminated against by the communist regime.

whatever the case may have been regarding to "jobs", "positions in government" and just better positions overall, the bottom line is that yes, Serbs that were most likely part of the communist party held the better jobs while they didn't represent even 10% of the population.

regardless njegos, all that is behind us and I can tell you from our perspective...a Croatian perspective...many parts of Croatia are completely normal with regards to relations with Serbs and Serbia, the reason Vukovar isn't yet is because many of those that were involved in the destruction and murders still walk the streets today...and people can't get past that...even if there were 50% population. there hasn't completely been justice for many and arguing over a tablica for most is more symbolic than anything else...you view it as illegal while most of the Croats view it as a moral issue they can't let go of for now!

My wish...would be an immediate coming together of the residents...for them to agree and accept terms, they live there not us. I want Serbs to prosper and live happily, without fear or discrimination...and to feel at home, I want this for everybody and I think its possible!

You think Croats are Ustase, I can tell you, although its part of our history, there were good things Ustase did...and many terrible. Todays Croatians are far less extremist than ever before, they just want their identity and dont want to forget those that perished for our independence!