Crimea to hold referendum on status on March 16

Reuters quoted Turchynov's spokesperson who said he considered the decisions made by Crimea's parliament and government to be "dictated by fear, and illegal."

So the unelected coup leader by getting a crowd of 20,000 out of a
population of 45 million to throw petrol bombs, rocks, catapults, then he
gets his side to shoot police and demonstrators using the same sniper
rifle becomes all legitimate and supported by the EU/US.Truly these people are now in the world of 'Alice through the Looking Glass' politics.

well , why not,its 99% Russians in the east of the country and pro-Russian Ukrainians ...... Kiev is more like Nazi Germany of the 40s it looks like...look at the things they did they got busted yesterday for killing their own people with snipers and they got busted for using neo Nazi groups in that area..so its going to happen and now America and the EU is backing off....because its Russia a power country not a little place that America likes to bully......different story here.....and from what I seen also is the small Albanian group of people that live there since the times of the Turks are all moving and running in fear......

Scholars warned years ago that the recognition of Kosovo would set a dangerous precedent. This is the slippery slop they warned us about. The West should not just pick and choose who gets independence and who does not. If Kosovo gets independence than any other nation who wishes to split should be able to. If I was a Russian living in the Crimea I would not trust Europe to protect me from reprisals from Pro-Euro Ukrainians. Just look at what a good job the west did protecting Serbs in Kosovo. It's been 15 years and Serbs are still being targeted in Kosovo. So, good job Crimea, I hope they get their independence.

Doesn't bode well for Kosovo staying part of Serbia...
(Andy UK, 6 March 2014 17:27)

Actually it does because all these cnn experts say ALL of Ukraine has to take part in the vote and not just Crimea. Did all of Serbia get a chance to vote on Kosovo?

Because of the decision that the Kosovo decleration of independence was neither legal or illegal, the wests arguement of ilegality of a crimean referndum is moot.

If Crimea splits so will the Bosnian Croats and RS. Albanian nationalists in Fyrom and South Eastern Serbia will try their luck, prompting Greeks in Albania to try their luck too. Not wanting to be left out, Northern Cyprus will formally unite with Turkey, Transnistiria and Ossetia will formalize union with Russia. Meanwhile, in Kosovo province there will be a political movement to unite with Albania and this will be a major headache for the current Pristina Government (that does not actually want to share power with Tirana) and both NATO and the EU. Seperatists in Western Europe will join in the new free for all. The Ruble, The Dollar, and the Euro will all be in the toilet along with the world economy.


This is exactly the problem that Kosovo independence created; redrawing maps without consent of all of the interested parties. Now it has come back to bite everyone. Now we can't go to the UN and affirm Soverignty and teritorial integrity of all recognized members.


I shake my head and hope for peace.

Andy, actually, the opposite. History informs the issue here, not legal precedence. History shows that Serbia has been artificially carved up, while history shows that the Ukraine is artificially united with Crimea. The separation of Kosovo was illegal and violent and supported by violent military aggression from NATO countries. The separation of Crimea is proceeding legally and so far, without violence.

March 16? Wtf! So late?? I can't believe it. Why don't they organize the referendum tomorrow? I bet they've already printed the results hehe. A formality...
I say: give Crimea to the Turks. Add one more question.

Doesn't bode well for Kosovo staying part of Serbia...

Almost choked on my breakfast this morning listening to Obama speaking in defence of a state's "sovereignty" and the importance of "international law"...staggering hypocrasy from a country that has flouted international law like no other. Good luck with this one Mr Pres.
This Ukraine issue is a massive "we told you so" from Serbia.

If you look at the sanctions you will be surprised how toothless they are.
(rote, 7 March 2014 09:54)

EU cannot afford any sanctions because the Russians have got them by the balls.Germany is far to reliant on low cost energy supplies and their huge exports to Russia ,the French have military contracts with Russia and the UK wants Russian money to continue coming to London. The remaining EU countries are simply irrelevant and will do as they are told, unlike those in the Crimea who don't want to be governed by EU/US sycophants.

Leonidas

“Reuters quoted …”

After Reuters and Associated Press said not a single word about the sniper scandal they died in my eyes. Mass media in the west work in two modes. First is used during peacetime to earn confidence of the folks. Second mode is used during wartime like today when no morality is needed. So I think Russia should not be more of a saint than the Roman Pope and behave similar. What fair play do they talk about during a mix fight ? When in Rome one should behave like the Romans. This is why Russia pays no attention what they all say today. Most barkers are either zombies like some posters here or just puppets of the world gendarme. If you look at the sanctions you will be surprised how toothless they are. They all have no tools to twist our hands off. Blackmail makes us only change our tactics. Everybody already knows that we’ll include Crimea to Russia this months. The only open question is at what price. But it’s a detail and nothing else. The real question is shall Russia invade east of Ukraine this month or we’ll use some other strategy to return our lands back.

Hear, hear. Now Obama and other leaders think that such a referendum is 'illegal', against international law, and any discussion about the future status must be held including Ukraine's leaders. But of course, Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence (even without a referendum, but announced by some self-proclaimed 'people of Kosovo', if I remember correctly) they considered legal and recognized this self-proclaimed state. Isn't it absurd?

Of course, Russia's stance is hypocrite as well: Not to recognize Kosovo, but to recognize a split-off Crimea and recognizing South Ossetia.

"Are you hallucinating, dear? Something has to be either legal or illegal. If something is not legal, than it is illegal. If something is not illegal, then it is legal."

the non binding ruling is that

1. anyone can declare anything they want because there was no law against that specifically,
2. the security counsel did not give itself final say, and
3. 1244 is preserved because the decleration of Independence does not legally finalize Kosovos status.

The decleration is neither legaly binding or illegaly contravening of an existing law.

It is the last part that was the weird part. In other words, if is not against the law to declare independence, because there is no law against it,and the Security counsel doesn't have the right to deciede, and because the decleration itself does not have any legal authority, it does not change existing law (1244).

What I am trying to stress to you is that Crimea can declare independence all day long, the Security Counsel cannot say yes or no, and no one or everyone can recognize it, because the decleration has no legal authority so no one can say it breaks a rule.

I appreciate your joke, because it is like a halucination. It is unreal.
That is a headache for everyone. and it took 14 judges and over 100 lawyers to come up with it.

After 60years of protecting Soverignty and Teritorial Integrity, the court said Sure do what you want, its a free for all, but don't blame us our ruling is not binding.

so far... well said.

Because of the decision that the Kosovo decleration of independence was neither legal or illegal
(marKo, 6 March 2014 21:58)

Are you hallucinating, dear? Something has to be either legal or illegal. If something is not legal, than it is illegal. If something is not illegal, then it is legal. It's very simple - somebody does not need to be a lawyer to understand it.

Scholars warned years ago that the recognition of Kosovo would set a dangerous precedent. This is the slippery slop they warned us about. The West should not just pick and choose who gets independence and who does not. If Kosovo gets independence than any other nation who wishes to split should be able to. If I was a Russian living in the Crimea I would not trust Europe to protect me from reprisals from Pro-Euro Ukrainians. Just look at what a good job the west did protecting Serbs in Kosovo. It's been 15 years and Serbs are still being targeted in Kosovo. So, good job Crimea, I hope they get their independence.
(Tom Medure, 6 March 2014 21:34)

Kosovo certainly agrees with you here. All the above strengthens Kosovo cause; even Russia supports it now. As for Serbia... even Russia abandoned Serbia's cause.

the non binding ruling is that
1. anyone can declare anything they want because there was no law against that specifically,
(marKo, 7 March 2014 19:00)

Nobody issued the ruling above, except you :)
----------

2. the security counsel did not give itself final say, and
(marKo, 7 March 2014 19:00)

According to the ICJ, I quote (for real, not like your invented quotes), "under the terms of resolution 1244 (1999) the Security Council did not reserve for itself the final determination of the situation in Kosovo". So, your interpretation is wrong.
----------

3. 1244 is preserved because the decleration of Independence does not legally finalize Kosovos status.
(marKo, 7 March 2014 19:00)

Of course 1244 is preserved because Kosovo did declare independence in accordance with 1244. Haven't you read the news in the last 4 years. The UDI and 1244 are not in conflict.
----------

The decleration is neither legaly binding
(marKo, 7 March 2014 19:00)

If you are not in Kosovo, of course you are not bound by the Declaration.
----------

or illegaly contravening of an existing law.
(marKo, 7 March 2014 19:00)

What does the above even mean in English?! Illegally contravening a law!!!! Can you legally contravene a law :)

It is the last part that was the weird part. In other words, if is not against the law to declare independence, because there is no law against it,and the Security counsel doesn't have the right to deciede, and because the decleration itself does not have any legal authority, it does not change existing law (1244).
(marKo, 7 March 2014 19:00)

Yes, you are correct. If there is no law prohibiting you to eat, that eating is legal. It's very simple. And, yes, you eating does not change existing law. There is nothing weird - everything is logical.
----------

I appreciate your joke, because it is like a halucination. It is unreal.
That is a headache for everyone. and it took 14 judges and over 100 lawyers to come up with it.
(marKo, 7 March 2014 19:00)

No the judges were not hallucinating like you. They did not say that something was neither legal nor illegal. You came up with that hallucination.
----------

After 60years of protecting Soverignty and Teritorial Integrity, the court said Sure do what you want, its a free for all, but don't blame us our ruling is not binding.
(marKo, 7 March 2014 19:00)

Nope, you are saying that, not the Court. Please show us the place in the Opinion where the Court stated that. And please use the original version of the Opinion - I know the Serbian version has weird things written in it :)

March 16? Wtf! So late?? I can't believe it. Why don't they organize the referendum tomorrow? I bet they've already printed the results hehe. A formality...
I say: give Crimea to the Turks. Add one more question.

Hear, hear. Now Obama and other leaders think that such a referendum is 'illegal', against international law, and any discussion about the future status must be held including Ukraine's leaders. But of course, Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence (even without a referendum, but announced by some self-proclaimed 'people of Kosovo', if I remember correctly) they considered legal and recognized this self-proclaimed state. Isn't it absurd?

Of course, Russia's stance is hypocrite as well: Not to recognize Kosovo, but to recognize a split-off Crimea and recognizing South Ossetia.

Scholars warned years ago that the recognition of Kosovo would set a dangerous precedent. This is the slippery slop they warned us about. The West should not just pick and choose who gets independence and who does not. If Kosovo gets independence than any other nation who wishes to split should be able to. If I was a Russian living in the Crimea I would not trust Europe to protect me from reprisals from Pro-Euro Ukrainians. Just look at what a good job the west did protecting Serbs in Kosovo. It's been 15 years and Serbs are still being targeted in Kosovo. So, good job Crimea, I hope they get their independence.
(Tom Medure, 6 March 2014 21:34)

Kosovo certainly agrees with you here. All the above strengthens Kosovo cause; even Russia supports it now. As for Serbia... even Russia abandoned Serbia's cause.

Doesn't bode well for Kosovo staying part of Serbia...

Doesn't bode well for Kosovo staying part of Serbia...
(Andy UK, 6 March 2014 17:27)

Actually it does because all these cnn experts say ALL of Ukraine has to take part in the vote and not just Crimea. Did all of Serbia get a chance to vote on Kosovo?

Andy, actually, the opposite. History informs the issue here, not legal precedence. History shows that Serbia has been artificially carved up, while history shows that the Ukraine is artificially united with Crimea. The separation of Kosovo was illegal and violent and supported by violent military aggression from NATO countries. The separation of Crimea is proceeding legally and so far, without violence.

Because of the decision that the Kosovo decleration of independence was neither legal or illegal
(marKo, 6 March 2014 21:58)

Are you hallucinating, dear? Something has to be either legal or illegal. If something is not legal, than it is illegal. If something is not illegal, then it is legal. It's very simple - somebody does not need to be a lawyer to understand it.

well , why not,its 99% Russians in the east of the country and pro-Russian Ukrainians ...... Kiev is more like Nazi Germany of the 40s it looks like...look at the things they did they got busted yesterday for killing their own people with snipers and they got busted for using neo Nazi groups in that area..so its going to happen and now America and the EU is backing off....because its Russia a power country not a little place that America likes to bully......different story here.....and from what I seen also is the small Albanian group of people that live there since the times of the Turks are all moving and running in fear......

Scholars warned years ago that the recognition of Kosovo would set a dangerous precedent. This is the slippery slop they warned us about. The West should not just pick and choose who gets independence and who does not. If Kosovo gets independence than any other nation who wishes to split should be able to. If I was a Russian living in the Crimea I would not trust Europe to protect me from reprisals from Pro-Euro Ukrainians. Just look at what a good job the west did protecting Serbs in Kosovo. It's been 15 years and Serbs are still being targeted in Kosovo. So, good job Crimea, I hope they get their independence.

Because of the decision that the Kosovo decleration of independence was neither legal or illegal, the wests arguement of ilegality of a crimean referndum is moot.

If Crimea splits so will the Bosnian Croats and RS. Albanian nationalists in Fyrom and South Eastern Serbia will try their luck, prompting Greeks in Albania to try their luck too. Not wanting to be left out, Northern Cyprus will formally unite with Turkey, Transnistiria and Ossetia will formalize union with Russia. Meanwhile, in Kosovo province there will be a political movement to unite with Albania and this will be a major headache for the current Pristina Government (that does not actually want to share power with Tirana) and both NATO and the EU. Seperatists in Western Europe will join in the new free for all. The Ruble, The Dollar, and the Euro will all be in the toilet along with the world economy.


This is exactly the problem that Kosovo independence created; redrawing maps without consent of all of the interested parties. Now it has come back to bite everyone. Now we can't go to the UN and affirm Soverignty and teritorial integrity of all recognized members.


I shake my head and hope for peace.

Reuters quoted Turchynov's spokesperson who said he considered the decisions made by Crimea's parliament and government to be "dictated by fear, and illegal."

So the unelected coup leader by getting a crowd of 20,000 out of a
population of 45 million to throw petrol bombs, rocks, catapults, then he
gets his side to shoot police and demonstrators using the same sniper
rifle becomes all legitimate and supported by the EU/US.Truly these people are now in the world of 'Alice through the Looking Glass' politics.

so far... well said.

Almost choked on my breakfast this morning listening to Obama speaking in defence of a state's "sovereignty" and the importance of "international law"...staggering hypocrasy from a country that has flouted international law like no other. Good luck with this one Mr Pres.
This Ukraine issue is a massive "we told you so" from Serbia.

Leonidas

“Reuters quoted …”

After Reuters and Associated Press said not a single word about the sniper scandal they died in my eyes. Mass media in the west work in two modes. First is used during peacetime to earn confidence of the folks. Second mode is used during wartime like today when no morality is needed. So I think Russia should not be more of a saint than the Roman Pope and behave similar. What fair play do they talk about during a mix fight ? When in Rome one should behave like the Romans. This is why Russia pays no attention what they all say today. Most barkers are either zombies like some posters here or just puppets of the world gendarme. If you look at the sanctions you will be surprised how toothless they are. They all have no tools to twist our hands off. Blackmail makes us only change our tactics. Everybody already knows that we’ll include Crimea to Russia this months. The only open question is at what price. But it’s a detail and nothing else. The real question is shall Russia invade east of Ukraine this month or we’ll use some other strategy to return our lands back.

If you look at the sanctions you will be surprised how toothless they are.
(rote, 7 March 2014 09:54)

EU cannot afford any sanctions because the Russians have got them by the balls.Germany is far to reliant on low cost energy supplies and their huge exports to Russia ,the French have military contracts with Russia and the UK wants Russian money to continue coming to London. The remaining EU countries are simply irrelevant and will do as they are told, unlike those in the Crimea who don't want to be governed by EU/US sycophants.

"Are you hallucinating, dear? Something has to be either legal or illegal. If something is not legal, than it is illegal. If something is not illegal, then it is legal."

the non binding ruling is that

1. anyone can declare anything they want because there was no law against that specifically,
2. the security counsel did not give itself final say, and
3. 1244 is preserved because the decleration of Independence does not legally finalize Kosovos status.

The decleration is neither legaly binding or illegaly contravening of an existing law.

It is the last part that was the weird part. In other words, if is not against the law to declare independence, because there is no law against it,and the Security counsel doesn't have the right to deciede, and because the decleration itself does not have any legal authority, it does not change existing law (1244).

What I am trying to stress to you is that Crimea can declare independence all day long, the Security Counsel cannot say yes or no, and no one or everyone can recognize it, because the decleration has no legal authority so no one can say it breaks a rule.

I appreciate your joke, because it is like a halucination. It is unreal.
That is a headache for everyone. and it took 14 judges and over 100 lawyers to come up with it.

After 60years of protecting Soverignty and Teritorial Integrity, the court said Sure do what you want, its a free for all, but don't blame us our ruling is not binding.

the non binding ruling is that
1. anyone can declare anything they want because there was no law against that specifically,
(marKo, 7 March 2014 19:00)

Nobody issued the ruling above, except you :)
----------

2. the security counsel did not give itself final say, and
(marKo, 7 March 2014 19:00)

According to the ICJ, I quote (for real, not like your invented quotes), "under the terms of resolution 1244 (1999) the Security Council did not reserve for itself the final determination of the situation in Kosovo". So, your interpretation is wrong.
----------

3. 1244 is preserved because the decleration of Independence does not legally finalize Kosovos status.
(marKo, 7 March 2014 19:00)

Of course 1244 is preserved because Kosovo did declare independence in accordance with 1244. Haven't you read the news in the last 4 years. The UDI and 1244 are not in conflict.
----------

The decleration is neither legaly binding
(marKo, 7 March 2014 19:00)

If you are not in Kosovo, of course you are not bound by the Declaration.
----------

or illegaly contravening of an existing law.
(marKo, 7 March 2014 19:00)

What does the above even mean in English?! Illegally contravening a law!!!! Can you legally contravene a law :)

It is the last part that was the weird part. In other words, if is not against the law to declare independence, because there is no law against it,and the Security counsel doesn't have the right to deciede, and because the decleration itself does not have any legal authority, it does not change existing law (1244).
(marKo, 7 March 2014 19:00)

Yes, you are correct. If there is no law prohibiting you to eat, that eating is legal. It's very simple. And, yes, you eating does not change existing law. There is nothing weird - everything is logical.
----------

I appreciate your joke, because it is like a halucination. It is unreal.
That is a headache for everyone. and it took 14 judges and over 100 lawyers to come up with it.
(marKo, 7 March 2014 19:00)

No the judges were not hallucinating like you. They did not say that something was neither legal nor illegal. You came up with that hallucination.
----------

After 60years of protecting Soverignty and Teritorial Integrity, the court said Sure do what you want, its a free for all, but don't blame us our ruling is not binding.
(marKo, 7 March 2014 19:00)

Nope, you are saying that, not the Court. Please show us the place in the Opinion where the Court stated that. And please use the original version of the Opinion - I know the Serbian version has weird things written in it :)